Today we take a peek inside the lives of peer tutors Mekenzie McElroy and Lindsey Wright, both undergraduates at UCF, who work in the University Writing Center. They also recently presented on a panel at the Southeastern Writing Center Association Conference. This conversation offers us a student oriented perspective of what brought them into their roles and what it means to be a contributing member of the UWC, in their tutoring sessions as well as their research.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Greetings and welcome to DWR discussions on writing and rhetoric, a space for informal conversations around research and practice in the field.
At the university level, a place inclusive for curious novices, blossoming scholars, and seasoned academics to consider and share their inquiries, experiences, and passions surrounding writing and rhetoric.
(00:29):
We are your hosts, professors Meeghan Faulconer and Nikolas Gardiakos, with the University of Central Florida.
Thank you for joining us.
Now let's get this conversation started.
(00:52):
Today we are joined by Mackenzie McElroy and Lindsey Wright, both undergraduates at UCF and peer tutors in the University Writing center.
They also recently presented on a panel at the Southeastern Writing Center Association conference.
This conversation will offer us a student oriented perspective of what brought them into their roles and what it means to be a contributing member of the UWC in their tutoring sessions as well as in their research.
(01:20):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Mackenzie and Lindsay, thank you for having us.
Thank you.
So to get us started, I thought we could orient our listeners a little bit to the process of what led you into your roles as peer tutors.
Now, full disclosure, McKenzie was my student for EMC 110.
Two, I'm not taking credit, but I'm just letting everyone know transparency here, so I know a little bit, but I'm going to pretend like I don't.
(01:49):
And then, Lindsey, also, could let us know, how did you get to this point at the writing center? Yeah, so Professor Weaver is the current director of the writing center, but at the time that I joined, she was the assistant director.
And so my freshman year, I actually had a class with her, and she would mention the writing center, but I honestly didn't make the connection.
(02:11):
She was like the assistant director.
I was just like, oh, her office is in the writing center.
Okay.
So I actually went a past peer tutor, had been in one of my stats classes, actually, and I was like, oh, working in the writing center? That sounds cool.
So I went to Professor Weaver and was like, can you write me a recommendation to work in the Writing center? And she was like, oh, I'm doing the interviews.
(02:34):
You're fine.
I'll just schedule an interview with you.
And I was like, okay.
So, yeah, I just had the interview scheduled.
It went really well, and even when I talked to her, she was like, I feel like you would be a good fit.
And I was like, okay.
And so I did the interview with her and then Mariana, who's our administrative coordinator, and that's kind of how I wound up in the writing center.
(02:56):
Did you see yourself as someone who welcomed the idea of doing, like, peer reviewing for money? Well, all the time, but yeah.
So I kind of saw myself as someone who's always been interested in editing and, like, the grammar side of things, which I quickly came to learn is not the bulk of what we do in the writing center.
(03:19):
It is helpful, but a lot of the times, it's more like content based sort of things.
So that is, I think, my initial interest.
But from there, it's kind of grown more into the idea of writing in general.
And that's kind of how I approached my own writing to, and my own peer review was like, oh, I'll fix the grammar, and now I'm kind of like, no, it's more than just the grammar.
(03:42):
Dispelling myths.
I love that.
So much good stuff.
So anyone that knows me knows the story and is tired of hearing it.
But just like you had said, I did have you for 1102.
And so the semester after I had you, I went into your office, and I think I was complaining about something, and you just randomly said, do you want to work at the writing center? I said, yeah, sure.
(04:05):
And I know that I've always like, my friends will always send me their essays and stuff, and I'll edit them, help them figure it out.
And so you were just like, I know Professor Brian, and he's working on the interview process, and so you sent my information to him.
I got an email from Weaver, and then I just kind of went for it.
(04:25):
I like to say that I kind of just fell into the writing center, and so I think that's kind of nice.
Yeah.
And I think I also wanted to ask about your different roles in the writing center.
Lindsay, I know you've had multiple or you have multiple roles in the writing center.
And, McKenzie, you've recently presented to my class that was attending via Zoom all about the writing center.
(04:48):
Could you talk a little bit about just the kind of variation experience that you have and roles that you kind of contribute to in the writing center? I'm a chronic over getting myself involved, so why don't you go first, and then I'll talk about what you don't talk about.
Okay, cool.
I don't think any of us have that problem.
(05:09):
Yeah.
So, like, beyond the tutoring session, basically, we also have committees that kind of work to help the center.
And so Lindsay and I both do newsletter, and so we have a newsletter just right.
That comes out twice a semester.
(05:30):
Maybe.
It just kind of depends.
We work on that.
And that's kind of the idea of that was creating a dialogue about writing within UCF, and so we do that.
We also have a social media committee that Lindsey and I have both worked on, lots of random committees, and I know we've also had tutors that have led seminar talking about research that they found.
(05:55):
Jarrett did chaos and empathy, and then we had Leslie and Ryan talk about our valued practices and how to implement those.
So those will be presentations or seminars for other Writing center members as well as the general, like, UCF Community or both.
Those are just for our seminar.
(06:18):
In Seminar.
Seminar is basically the class that we're in after our first semester and where we kind of I'm trying to think because I had it.
Are you trying to describe the class or something? No, seminar.
I had it.
It's like a class, but you get paid basically.
So it's our ongoing tutor education.
(06:41):
It's once a week.
It's an hour and 15 minutes.
You get paid for that hour and 15 minutes.
And you get paid to prepare.
I think you get an extra hour, 15 beforehand.
So it's basically a class.
We read scholarship and then we kind of have a discussion and talk about it.
There are different assignments.
Like, we will do regular observation reports where we observe someone else's tutoring and then we'll write a report.
(07:04):
And that's not to judge each other or evaluate work performance.
That's to grow and see, like, this is what another tutor is doing.
How can I incorporate that? How did that impact the session? That sort of thing.
Sorry, I kind of stole the question.
No, that's okay.
Thank you.
So if you don't mind, you were both recommended or you both found your way into the interview process and you both accepted the terms of saying, yes, this is something I want to do.
(07:34):
And then you took a course which is called Theory and Practice of Tutoring Writing.
Okay.
And it's offered in the FA Falls in the fall semesters.
After that, you have a semester where you kind of shadow tutors.
Is that correct? Is that the process? Or you go right into tutoring? After you take that class, you actually go right into tutoring in the class.
(07:58):
Okay.
The first few weeks, I think, is whenever you're observing, I know they've done it a little differently each year.
And so for my year, we had to do two observations and then two co tutorings.
And so you worked with a veteran tutor, which is just a tutor who isn't a first year tutor.
So you work with them in a session, kind of go back and forth, tutoring someone, and then after that is whenever you kind of go onto the floor.
(08:25):
My first year, I think we went onto the floor in mid October.
And so from there through the rest of the fall semester, your tutoring.
Okay.
My year, they threw us right in.
But that was like three years ago.
So I think they've leaned more towards giving them a little time.
And I think that's been in part because McKenzie's year was I don't want to speak for forever, but, like, the first year, they gave them time and that was also the year we were fully online.
(08:52):
So I think that was part of it.
But then also with Weaver becoming the director, I think that's something that she's like and so has probably going to stay.
Okay.
And so after you transition from with that class and that role of getting into the practicality of tutoring, after that, it's basically your tutor and your continuing requirement is to do this seminar where it's almost like continuing education, best practices for other tutors.
(09:22):
Yeah.
Okay.
And that's where you can learn about the other committees or like, subgroups of the writing center that you might want to be involved in.
Like, you mentioned the social media aspect and I think they were the seminar presentations and stuff like that.
Okay.
So I have a question.
What do you think it is about the university writing center that kind of keeps you coming back for multiple years? Lindsay, I know that you have been there for multiple years working at the writing center, so I'm just curious, what is that sort of internal motivation like for you both that you sort of get out of putting so much kind of work and effort into? Wonder if you could describe that for us.
(10:05):
I love working with the students.
And my favorite thing, like, in sessions is whenever a student comes in and they're like completely confused, they have no idea what's going on, and I'm able to talk it through with them.
Talk through what? They're confused about looking at the assignment with them and kind of figure it out and just seeing whenever the students actually understand something, like, that's really rewarding for me being able to explain it to them and honestly, the environment.
(10:31):
Like, Professor Weaver and Professor Brian and Mariana are probably the greatest people on the planet, and they're just really supportive of everything that we want to do.
Newsletter started because another tutor was just like, oh, maybe we should have a newsletter.
And so Weaver was just kind of like, if you can pitch it to me, we can do it.
And so it's just that supportive.
(10:52):
They will literally support anything that you want to do, obviously within reason, but just the support and how rewarding the sessions are.
And all the tutors are pretty chill.
We're a good bunch, and so everyone is a lot of fun.
Yeah, so kind of the same.
I don't know about Mackenzie and everyone else who worked there, but like all my jobs before working in the writing center, it was the kind of vibe where you pull up, you sit in your car until the very last second and wait to go in because you don't really want to be there, but you want the money.
(11:26):
And now I'm not going to lie, it is kind of like, oh, I have to go do my job.
But it's like, I'll also just go hang out in the center.
And I know Mackenzie was saying this too.
It's a nice place to study, and students can clock in to just work on writing if they don't have an appointment with a tutor.
But especially with people who work there.
It's like, oh, I'll just get there early and work on homework or I'll talk with Professor Brian or Professor Weaver, the other tutors, and just, like, hang out.
(11:53):
It's a very healthy work environment, I think, like, the healthiest one I've at least ever experienced.
And I know because a lot of times, like, my previous jobs were like, retail food service.
And so I think just like, that's a lot of jobs that are available to students versus this is, like, something that's available that you can get that more like professional work environment.
(12:13):
And it's like a healthy one.
Yeah.
And also, I am looking to go to grad school for writing and rhetoric, which I didn't know when I entered the writing center, but that has definitely been something that's, like, kept me coming back, is like, oh, this work is really interesting.
It's going to translate to my grad school work almost directly.
(12:34):
The grad students in the UCF Rhetoric and Composition program, they work in the writing center.
If I choose to go to UCF next year, I'll just be back in the writing center, but as, like, a graduate assistant.
So that, like, clear connection has been something that I've really enjoyed.
Lindsay, were you always a writing major? No.
Okay, well, I came to UCF fully undecided, which was really annoying because everyone always asks, what do you think you want to be? And I'm like, I don't know.
(13:03):
That's why I haven't declared anything.
And so I read through the course catalog a lot, trying to just see what I was interested in.
And so my spring semester, that's why I had the class with Professor Weaver.
I was finishing up my Gen Eds because I had a lot of credits from dual enrollment in high school and stuff.
(13:24):
And so I wound up taking a political science class and then the Writing and Rhetoric Foundations class with Professor Weaver because those were the two majors I was between.
And I did end up choosing political science, but I kept writing and rhetoric as my minor started working in the writing center.
And then I also think that working in the writing center, I kind of got to a point where I was kind of like, political science is very interesting, but it was kind of depressing always having to hear about the world.
(13:53):
They always are like, have you read the news? And I'm like, Reading the news is great, but no, I have not read all of everything you're talking about.
I'm so sorry.
I just cannot do that.
And so kind of shifting to the writing and rhetoric as my major, kind of getting that same, like, thinking about the world and the way people communicate.
That's what politics is.
A lot of people associate the word rhetoric with politics, but from a less depressing angle.
(14:19):
For me personally, a lot of vigorous head nodding on our side.
Yeah, I was a political science major as an undergrad, that was my major.
It was more focused on international relations.
But yeah, not usually the happiest of things that you get to study.
(14:40):
I'm thinking about the ability, when you look at it from a rhetorical standpoint, that you can kind of distance yourself a little bit and look at it more critically.
I think.
Then, I don't know, I'm not a political science major, but it feels like it allows you that space a little bit to not feel maybe as directly affected by it.
You can look at it more academically and see what's happening.
(15:01):
In terms of the positions that are being stated and the arguments being made.
I think it's interesting you both found your way.
I don't want to steal your thunder.
Mackenzie, tell us about how you found your way into Writing and Rhetoric.
Yeah, well, when I started at UCF, so whenever I was actually in your class, I was biomedical Sciences, because all throughout high school, I was in a biomedical sciences program, and it was kind of all I knew.
(15:27):
And so then I was like, all right, I like science, I like math.
We'll continue this.
Then my first semester, I took a psych class.
Was a little interested there.
Then it kind of was like, oh, maybe we like psych a little.
And so I kind of changed my entire major to Psych and went with that for a year.
(15:51):
And then last spring, at the end of the spring, I talk to Professor Brian because I knew working at the Writing Center, I wanted to take another writing class, and he was teaching Writing and Rhetoric foundations during the following summer.
And so I talked to him, trying to get his understanding of if it was going to be a good idea to take it, what it was going to be like by the end of that summer.
(16:17):
We had met a few times on Zoom, and he was just like, maybe you should consider the I think it's the Public and Professional Writing certificate or the Writing and Rhetoric minor.
So I started with the certificate, and then it changed to the minor.
And then this semester, I actually was talking to Dr.
Wheeler, and she was like, oh, you're just a Writing and Rhetoric minor.
(16:41):
I was like, yeah.
So she's like, Why? And so then we had that conversation, and she basically convinced me to double major in Psychology and Writing and Rhetoric because I only have a few site classes left and I only needed a few Writing and Rhetoric, and so it fits in perfectly with, like, whenever I plan to graduate anyway.
(17:01):
And so here we are.
I think those are great stories.
Thank you for sharing both of them.
And it kind of makes me think of one of the questions that I wanted to ask you both, which was, how was your experience at the Writing Center impacted or shaped your academic or even your kind of just social outlook.
(17:22):
Yeah, I feel like my previous answer pretty much gets that because that is why I have now changed my major and have reconsidered my career goals because now I have no idea what I want to do because I've kind of found myself not less interested in Psych, but I'm really enjoying writing and rhetoric a lot.
(17:42):
And so now it's like, well, what can I do with that? And trying to figure that out.
So that's had a lot for me.
Yeah, for me there's also been this aspect of, like I've said before, I'm a chronic overachiever.
And so in the writing and rhetoric, I was in the minor already and I heard about the journal that we have convergence rhetoric, and I was like, that's really cool, but I don't think I've done anything in my classes yet that I can submit.
(18:10):
And then the final project that we do in the tutoring class, the Theory and Practice of Tutoring writing, it's like this big research project.
You have to record one of your tutoring sessions with the writer's permission, write a transcript of a section of it, and then you kind of look at it, analyze it, and then you make a claim about it based on the research you've read throughout the semester and kind of talk about, like, how your tutoring is, like, impacting the writer.
(18:40):
And so I did that whole project, and I think that was the first time I was actually, like, proud of my writing instead of just being like, I did the thing I'm done.
And so the semester after that, I submitted it to Convergence and got it published.
And then from there, I've been published in Convergence like three times now there's the Imprint magazine that the Department of Writing and Writer has.
(19:03):
It's kind of like a different slant.
It's more like articles, like, I've been publishing there too.
And so just kind of that idea of becoming like a scholar, the writing center has really helped me get to that point.
That's so powerful because that is such a huge shift and it's one that's really difficult, I feel as a student in particular in undergrad, to feel like you have any sort of agency in your writing.
(19:28):
And so I think that's really important to hear.
And I also think it's really important to hear that you don't necessarily have to come into college with a predetermined plan.
I feel like those students are so lucky that they're like, I want to be this and I know it, and I've known it since I was six years old and I know my path and this is what it is.
But I feel like that's a really small portion of our demographic just as humans.
(19:50):
And the fact that even now you're saying, I'm going to graduate and I'm not sure what the next step is, that's really natural, and I think that needs to be embraced a little bit more than this idea that we constantly have to be so predetermined in everything that we're doing, but getting to that idea of research.
Also, I'm curious.
Lindsay, I know that you have done some research and applied that research to some revisions to the University Writing Center website in terms of accessibility.
(20:18):
Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Yeah, so that was part of our Inquiry projects that we do in seminar, which is our so in every spring semester.
That's when we do those, like, Inquiry projects where I know McKenzie talked about them earlier, they're different a little bit every year.
But you kind of look at the Writing Center and you're like, what do I think we should know more about? What do I think we should change? And so because last year they were very focused on what we should change, me and a few other tutors were like, our website is kind of ugly.
(20:49):
Let's work on that.
And so I had actually taken a class, Writing for Digital Environments previously that had had a unit on accessible design.
And so from there, I kind of learned this idea that accessible design isn't just about having alt text or making sure it's compatible with screen readers.
It's also just making sure that the design makes sense.
(21:12):
If you're hiding your buttons all around the screen, you don't know how to navigate that's not accessible design.
And so we kind of looked over the website, and we're like, we have these tabs that no one really uses.
It doesn't really make sense.
It's hard to find things.
And so we did some research on that, proposed the changes.
(21:32):
And then since then, not everything that we've proposed.
Some of it is still in process.
Some of it just like, sometimes you propose things and they don't happen.
It happens.
Now, our website is definitely better.
Like I said, it'll work in progress.
Specifically, our Resources page, we're currently working on updating, but yeah.
(21:54):
Okay.
And McKenzie, you did some research in regards to correct me if I'm wrong, like external perceptions of the Writing Center.
Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Yeah, so for my Inquiry project, I kind of didn't have an idea of what I wanted to do.
And so I joined a group of two tutors who had an idea, and one of them, our dear friend Kelly, was advertising, and public relations was her major.
(22:22):
And so this was very much like her thing.
And so she wanted to look at how basically everyone outside of the Writing Center views the Writing center.
And I thought that was really interesting.
And so I joined this group.
And so we've noticed in sessions that we get a lot of students who come in and they think that we're just going to edit their papers for them.
(22:46):
And a lot of the times, no offense to you guys or any other professors, listening, the students get their understanding of the writing center from their professors.
And so a lot of the times that's where that, oh, they'll edit their papers for you, this is where you need to go for it.
And so looking at that, we kind of figured the professors are who we need to target.
(23:07):
And so from there, we kind of created the survey, which we never got sent out.
It was supposed to, but now it's going to guide some further things that we're going to do in the center.
And so we want to figure out what professors know about the writing center and figure out how we can kind of correct these ideas that they are having with it.
And so we are planning on having some like, faculty focus groups and looking at obviously, like I said, what they know about the writing center.
(23:34):
Have they ever been to the writing, like, visited the writing center? Have they talked to people from the writing center and just kind of gauge their understanding of that and so that we can kind of fix the messaging that we're putting out to professors so that can help how they convey that to their students.
And so then we'll get students in here that are actually wanting to improve their writing and become better writers, not just edit their papers so they'll get 100 on the paper.
(24:00):
I don't mean to put you on the spot.
I'm curious.
Are you considering universal type messaging that would be applicable to every discipline at UCF? Or are you looking to more target the way that your messaging would impact particular portions of our communities? If that makes sense? It does.
Okay, so most of the messaging is like two professors.
(24:25):
So like, in the professor syllabus, you guys can put the information about the writing center.
And so a lot of the times we've noticed that professors have either put like just the location, phone number, email, maybe something a little more, but then we'll have professors that are putting like two paragraphs of what the writing center does.
(24:46):
And so I think it was Professor Weaver told us that professors can actually get their information from faculty resources.
And so a lot of times that's where they're getting it.
And so if we can figure out a way to edit that messaging to make that a little more apparent, so then when professors are going to faculty resources, when they're making their syllabus to get this information, that's where they can kind of see the messaging and then convey it further to their students.
(25:12):
Yeah, and also I wanted to chime in too, and kind of put in a plug for having students from the writing center talk to students in class, as I did during the UCF Writing fest where you all were presenting to my NC 1102 class.
What I thought was interesting about the way in which they reacted, even though it was via zoom.
(25:36):
So you all couldn't see it was when you were all we're talking about how you can help students in the process of figuring out their ideas or research questions, those sort of planning stages and the stages of writing, where they're coming up with their ideas, or if they were struggling to come up with ideas.
The University writing center could be a resource for that.
(25:59):
And it's one thing for me to tell them that, which I tell them to get feedback on that level from the University Writing Center.
But to see the students.
To see you all there talking again via zoom.
But to them from other students.
I think really kind of changes with that messaging is like and also it's a struggle with what students perception of revision is.
(26:28):
Which is something that we try and talk about in the comp classes too.
And I know you all know are aware of too.
Just the idea that students have that revising.
Even when I asked them about it.
They're like.
Yeah.
I'll change this word.
Or I'll look for a better word there.
Then that's it.
And then I'm done.
So trying to kind of change that, is that something that you see even on a one to one kind of tutoring basis when students come in, that their idea of what happens in the process of revising and changing.
(27:04):
I imagine that can be a really cool kind of teaching experience.
The students that come in to talk to you, has that been your experience? It can be cool, but it can also be frustrating because they're like, come edit my paper.
And I'm like, that's not actually what we do here.
Sometimes people will go the opposite extreme and be like, no, we don't work on grammar.
(27:26):
We do work on grammar.
It's just more about, like, learning and collaborating.
So say a student comes in and they do have grammar mistakes that are impeding the comprehension.
Then it's like, okay, let's talk about this.
Let's learn what a commerce place is.
Let's maybe go over how you can make this a little more clear.
(27:46):
But then sometimes my Inquiry Project this semester is actually working on how we can better help multilingual and other just graduate students who come in with their species, because those are really long, and a lot of the times they just want the grammar checked.
Sometimes they're from a very scientific field, and we can help with papers across all disciplines.
(28:07):
But when you get that really long, really dense thesis, it's like, how can I best help you? Because I am not an editor.
And so my Inquiry Project this semester is kind of looking like, how can we help them? Because right now it's kind of like with our values that we've kind of defined in the past two years.
(28:30):
Like, empathy is on there, but then so is learning and growth.
And so it's kind of like a tug between the empathy of, like, They need the editing help.
They spend all this time on this thesis.
They're not here for grammar right now.
But then the learning aspect of, okay, we're not an editing center.
How do I help them? Is there also resistance in terms of a thesis? Is a very laborious, personal endeavor? Is there resistance from the author that in terms of expertise, I only want you to correct my grammar because I don't trust you to be able to give me any feedback.
(29:08):
Like, I know better.
I'm the one who's done the research.
I've done all of this work.
I don't want you messing with the way this is organized or other types of feedback that might be helpful.
Is that part of that consideration as well? I'm going to be honest.
A lot of the times, because the thesis is so big, we don't even really get to organization.
(29:31):
It's more just like going through the grammar.
And a lot of times, if it is scientific, it's like sometimes I won't even comprehend, which is not the ideal session, right? But it's like the reality of it.
And so sometimes I'll be like, can you explain this to me? And they'll explain it not going to lie.
(29:52):
I don't understand it.
But I'm like, okay, that's a noun.
I understand now that this is a noun concept.
And so I'm going to have you change this verb thing now that you explain to this whole scientific thing that I'm definitely going to forget in the learning sessions.
Because sometimes students come in with their thesis and they do like, they want to learn.
Like, you'll tell them to fix something and they'll be like, okay, why? Or they'll be like, oh, they'll understand.
(30:16):
Like, you tell them something once and then they'll apply it later on their own because they're like, I got that.
But sometimes they just want the corrections.
It's kind of hard.
I can imagine.
Yeah, you mentioned the values and practices, and I'm looking at them here, and some of them just kind of pop out to me as interesting questions.
(30:38):
So, Mackenzie, I'll throw this one to you.
The one that I highlighted here is adaptability, and it says, acknowledge that chaos is part of learning.
Know when to adjust and prioritize new goals that arise.
And I think if I could come up with a super short definition of what teaching is like, that might be it.
(31:02):
So I was wondering and I love it.
I love it because I think adaptability is something that keeps everything kind of fresh every time, even if you taught the same class or had the same experience tutoring and stuff like that.
So I was wondering what your thoughts were experiences were on that.
Yeah.
(31:22):
So whenever we're trained to tutor, we're typically taught that you need to negotiate an agenda for the session at the very beginning.
So basically having a conversation with the writer and figuring out what they want to work on what their concerns are, what can get done in a 45 minutes session.
Because sometimes, like Lindsay said, they'll bring in these large CCS and you're like, We've got 45 minutes.
(31:44):
What do you really want to get through? And so with that, once you negotiate something, you'll typically start on looking at it, but sometimes you get halfway through and you notice that there might be some deeper concerns or that the writer might feel unsure with what they actually have that's not relating to that initial agenda.
(32:05):
And so once you notice that, that's whenever you can kind of take a step back and say, okay, I know we started wanting to look at this, but what if we look at this instead for a little bit, or the rest of the session? And so kind of figuring that out.
I know that gives a lot of relief to the students whenever they understand.
Yes, just because we said we were going to work on this one thing in the very beginning, we don't have to work on that the entire time.
(32:28):
We can change things up in a session.
Chaos like Jarrett, a fellow tutor, loves to emphasize, is very much part of the writing sessions.
Having that conjures up such an image of what's happening in the writing center, that like chaos.
Yeah, we're flipping tables around in the sessions, throwing chairs at each other.
(32:49):
But yeah, it's not that kind of chaos.
It's more of like how writers feel about their writing, how they feel about their assignments, if they have outside stressors that are going on, like they're anxious about another class, and so it's affecting how they're feeling about this.
And so you can kind of take that moment in the session and just stop what you're doing.
And I like to kind of sit down with him and ask him, OK, so I noticed you're anxious about this.
(33:14):
What is making you anxious about this particular assignment? What's going on outside of it? And you can kind of figure out how to navigate the rest of the session once you actually have those conversations.
There's so much adaptability, and it is very close to teaching.
And this is something I've noticed about myself the longer that I have given feedback to students and that I can look at papers objectively and give meaningful critique of how they could improve and make their writing more effective.
(33:46):
It has improved my personal writing tremendously, especially in the academic.
I mean, my poetry is still super angsty and I wouldn't show it to anyone, but my academic writing has improved tremendously.
And even my ability to edit my own academic writing has improved tremendously.
What have you seen personally in terms of skills that you can apply in your own writing since you've started working in the writing center? I'll start with this one.
(34:09):
So I was very much for most of my academic career, I'll write one draft and that's it.
Don't try to ask me to edit anything the Church of submitted 1159 and pray.
I think I can get it done, and we're good.
I'll write it an hour before it's due.
The best writing I feel like I have.
(34:31):
But obviously, coming into college, that's not what they want from you.
You need multiple drafts.
You need to show revisions that you're actually making.
I do remember in my junior year of high school, my teacher Love, we had to revise everything, like, our major papers and stuff.
So I used to purposely, when I write the first draft, I would make mistakes so that I had something to edit.
(34:59):
Confession.
Yeah.
So sorry.
Mark Williams, if you're listening, yeah.
So I would literally do that because I hated editing my own stuff, because I just want to write one thing, and I'm done editing other people's stuff, no problem.
Obviously, I can't do that here in college.
And so actually, implementing editing and revision has been a major thing for me.
(35:24):
And talking to other students and seeing what their editing and revision processes are and talking to other tutors and professors and stuff, doing that has definitely changed.
Obviously, I do a lot of editing now.
I think I've learned a lot about what the ideal writing process looks like.
Do I still write my papers and submit them at 1159? Perhaps.
(35:47):
But, you know, we're only human.
Yeah.
So I think it has helped more.
Like I said, I recently was applying to grad school, just like, we get a lot of people writing personal statements in the writing center.
So I was kind of like, I know how to do this.
Definitely still is a struggle doing your own, but the genre was very familiar to me.
So, Capacious, tell me about yourself in 500 words.
(36:11):
Yeah, but it is better with grad school than when I experienced applying to college, because in grad school, it's like, I know I'm going to this specific thing versus especially coming in undecided to college.
I was like, Just admit me, please.
(36:32):
Can you talk to us a little bit about your experience presenting at the Southeastern Writing Center Association Conference? Now, I know this is a conference that is open to both, like, instructors that are working in writing centers as well as students.
So how did you find yourselves presenting? I mean, don't just say that somebody asked you and you said, yes, please give us something more romantic or exciting.
(36:54):
Okay, then I'll lie, because it literally was lindsay said, do you want to do this? I said, yes.
All right, Lindsay, so what led you to ask me my chronic overachiever tendencies? So I had actually, with another tutor and our two directors presented at the International Writing Center Association Conference last fall.
(37:17):
And so after doing that, I was like, I want to do it again and just kind of get involved, be able to present the research to other people.
And a lot of it is that just like, I like doing things, but it is nice to get that experience and learn, like presenting.
Isn't that scary? Honestly, on Zoom, it's definitely easier than in person, but yeah, it was just a good experience.
(37:44):
And kind of going back to that idea of affirming myself as a scholar, I did this thing and now people in the field want to listen sort of thing.
I'm not just doing this for class.
So what did you both present on? It was together on a panel? Yes.
Okay.
Was it the same project and you just took turns reading parts of it or were there different components? No.
(38:07):
So we talked about our individual inquiry project because the four of us, we all did separate ones.
And so the whole panel was just looking at inquiry projects.
I don't remember the actual title of it, but it was something about really long, so long.
But I know the one we did basically the same presentation for UCF's Writing Fest.
And I know that's how it was like inquiry and action based research.
(38:30):
So it was like looking at our research and what we had done, what we had completed in the center, obviously what we had hoped to complete.
And so each of us talked about our own research and basically went through the whole process of how we decided what we were doing, what changes we wanted to see and what changes had been made and where we're at now.
How did it feel to be presenting amongst other scholars? We had eight people.
(38:55):
It was at 09:00 a.m..
I m on a Saturday.
We had eight people, and one of them was Professor Brian.
But they know that all the eight people that attended were in your actually, it was pretty good for 09:00 A.m., I wouldn't have been awake.
I presented at the South Atlantic MLA Convention Conference last year and literally we had like, two people show up to our panels.
(39:20):
So you should be proud of yourself.
Yeah.
What about other did you attend panels as well? Do you have time for that? I was just wondering, I'm curious what are some of the conversations going on amongst now that you're seasoned Writing Center professionals and presenting in the field? I'm wondering what are some of the questions that are going on in that field and in that community that you heard about while going to presenting and attending and sharing information? It was the same week as Writing Fest, so we were pretty busy.
(39:58):
I personally didn't get to attend any of the other panels, but there had been a different conference, I want to say like the Northwest Pacific one or something like that, that was actually like free for, I think, maybe undergraduates to attend or something.
So I had gone a while ago to a panel on that and they had been talking about asynchronous drop off tutoring because you'd think that would be like editing type thing.
(40:23):
Like, you drop off your paper, you get it back.
And so they were kind of talking about how it's not editing, like, how they manage.
That different, the pull between editing and tutoring, because that's something like all writing centers kind of struggle with.
And so that was part of I had already kind of had the idea on my mind that I wanted to look into how we can help multilingual graduate student writers.
(40:47):
But that was something like, I went to that panel because I wanted more information on that.
And so then from there, with my inquiry project, we're kind of looking at possibly implementing something asynchronous like that with maybe they drop off their paper and then they come in for the feedback.
We're not sure.
But that is like a conversation in the field that's directly related to my current inquiry research.
(41:12):
Yeah, I don't have as good of an answer as Lindsay.
Like she had said, it was that same week of Writing Fest.
I did two panels for Writing Fest, and then I also had a lot of assignments.
So actually, I went to Professor Brian's presentation for SWCA, the Southeastern Writing Center Association, that conference, for about 15 minutes before we had to do one of our panels.
(41:40):
So I know he talked about session notes, and I don't really remember so much about it, but I know he was looking at basically what session notes can do and what they've been looking like in the past.
Session notes are basically what we send to students after their session that kind of gives them an idea of what we did in the session, any sources that we provide them with resources, like citation stuff, if they need to know how to write personal statements.
(42:14):
We have a bunch of resources like that on our website.
And then we also like to just look them up during sessions if we don't have a specific resource, just so the students can have those after the session.
Because most of the time, if anyone told me a website during a conversation, I would never remember it.
I'll have to write it down somewhere or have them tell me again later.
And so we use session notes like that.
And so he's I know his presentation, which I don't remember most of it, but I know he was talking about, like, how session notes are being used and how they've changed in the last few years.
(42:45):
So you had a major revision of your values and practices with the way that this form as you're working through a session with a student.
You said it used to be much more like a checklist, like, have I done these things? And instead now it's categories of are you meeting the students needs in these areas and however your interactions changed.
(43:06):
So those are your notes as tutors.
Correct.
So is there a push in the Writing Center currently to revise the way we're approaching the student session or the session notes for the students.
I know.
So Professor Brian and Professor Weaver are doing some sort of, like, research and looking into that.
They don't so much want us to change them, but we do kind of go over them at the beginning of every semester, like, hey, these are the things you should be including, not, like, as a reprimand, but just as a refresher.
(43:38):
And here, I know at the beginning of this semester, we talked about having kind of, like, an opening, like, summarizing what they did.
Because session notes have a couple of different audiences.
We do send them to the student, but they're also stored in our system.
So say I have a writer coming in, I'm like, maybe I recognize that name.
I can look and see who they worked with before and those notes, which is why Professor Brian is able to do this research.
(44:03):
I think we have, like, session notes going back, like, ten years or something ridiculous, because then, yeah, like, our directors are another audience for them to kind of look through and say, like, okay, what are they doing in sessions? What are they writing about? And just kind of going through that data.
Also, professors, a lot of times, if professors require their students to come to a session either just for a grade or, like, part of their grade or for extra credit, a lot of the time they want to see the session notes as proof that they came.
(44:35):
And that's also was part of my inquiry project last year about external perception, trying to figure out what professors actually want to see from those session notes, because we have really no idea.
We just know that they use them as proof.
So what do they want to see? And so then looking at that, professors are another audience for our session notes and two very different audiences.
(44:56):
The notes are for the students to improve their writing.
That's a very different kind of report than you would give to a professor about the session.
I had a question about just curious about what kinds of conversations do you have with Professor Brian or Professor Weaver about how the university writing center is kind of situated in the UCF community at large.
(45:17):
I know you've talked about wanting to change perceptions of what the writing center does or how it can specifically help students, but I wonder if you also have had conversations or thoughts on how the university writing center just kind of fits into the university community as a whole and serves all aspects of our community here at UCF.
(45:44):
That was your research.
You should answer.
I can.
Yeah, go for it.
I don't know.
So writing centers are kind of historically, like I don't want to say look down upon and marginalized isn't quite the right word either, but they're kind of like they tend to be in, like, basements off in the corner type thing.
(46:07):
I don't know if it was the first writing center, but the writing center at UCF used to literally be in a portable trailer type thing.
And now we have a really nice place.
We've really gone up in the world.
But yeah, writing centers just tend to be looked down upon.
There's also this idea in academia that I don't want to say editing, because editing isn't what we do, but editing and just having someone help you with your writing is a type of plagiarism, which isn't correct.
(46:34):
Like, all writing is done in a community, but sometimes writing centers, that's one of the reasons we don't do editing is because people are like, getting someone to edit your writing is plagiarism.
And so we're like, no, we don't do that.
We tutor.
And that is like more beneficial for the students learning.
But it's also that idea of like, further perception of academia.
(46:55):
Like, we're not messing with the writing, it's still the students writing.
We're tutor.
So we're just like situated in like a really weird place where people see us as an editing service, but they also don't want us to promote plagiarism.
And so I think there's a lot of misconceptions about what the writing center does because of all those different factors.
(47:16):
I would have thought that because coming in as a student, I would think that the writing center would be somewhere you would go if you needed remedial help with writing.
That's another one that was a big problem.
That would have been there's the math lab that you go to if you need help with your math homework.
And then there's the writing center if you need help with your writing because you're not quite understanding the concepts or whatever it may be.
(47:39):
So I would have imagined that that would have been an aspect as well and one that we're working to overcome when we say, hey, we have people bringing in their theses.
This is not like basic I need help writing a literacy narrative in ANC eleven one, but this runs the gamut from your first class.
(48:00):
And also I wondered too if the expectation was at the university if you've made it this far and you've gotten into UCF, you've demonstrated that you have these skills.
I feel like Liam Neeson right now, like a very particular set of skills.
So I wonder too if there's like that misconception tied to the idea of it being remedial or editorial that they're not serving the larger masses of our students, which is really a terrible misconception because we can help everybody.
(48:31):
And I say we are down now.
Okay, but I've sat with you in a podcast, so I'm sure I could I'm sure you jump right in.
Absolutely.
Come on in.
You take one of my hours.
We are currently hiring.
Yeah, I don't know when this is going to come out though.
We won't be hiring by then.
No application is closed.
(48:52):
Next week.
I understand that there is the call for applications right now, and that is fantastic.
I have recommended some of my students.
Did you fill out an application yourself, though? I don't think they'd hire me.
So my parents actually came and watched my panel, and then I guess Professor Bryan sent out the application to everyone who watched the panel.
(49:12):
So I called my parents one day, and my dad was like, we're going to work together.
And I'm like, what? And he's like, I got an application.
I'm like, okay, you're an engineer.
Sure you're just going to come work in the writing center? Hey, we do have an engineering major.
We have an engineering major, not a civil engineer fully established in a job.
You're right.
That was the writing I mean, we all have room to improve, right? This is true.
(49:34):
Yeah.
And in fairness, Dr.
Whaler's mom came and watched her panel of her I think it was her grads or undergrad students majors.
I think it was the first.
Yeah.
So don't ever stop inviting your parents.
Wonderful.
They're happy to see it.
They're happy to see what you're doing.
So we're closing in our time for this episode, but I wanted to know what future projects or goals that you have going on that you're excited about in the future.
(50:03):
Yeah, well, Lindsey has already talked about her current Inquiry project, and so my group, we're looking at navigating emotional responses from writers in sessions.
And so sometimes we get I don't want to say aggressive, but we kind of have been using the term aggressive a lot in conversation.
(50:23):
We get writers that just don't want to listen to what we have to say or very apathetic about being there because our professors require the sessions.
And so looking at how to navigate those and seeing what other writing centers have been doing and kind of trying to figure out how common are these.
Really.
In our sessions.
Because I feel like we all have stories of.
(50:44):
Like.
Oh.
Yeah.
I had this writer who ignored everything I said in the session.
Or.
I have a writer that kind of seems to get a little aggressive.
And I just kind of brushed it off and went with it.
And so trying to understand how we can better educate our tutors to not, like, stand up for themselves, but know their place in the session and know that they do have all of that power to stand up for themselves in a session.
(51:10):
And so that's what we're currently looking at.
Yeah.
I've spoken about my Inquiry project.
I'm going to grad school next year.
I don't know where, but writing center studies is a big part of the reckoning field.
So I could potentially, depending on where I end up being in the writing center again somewhere else or here.
And I'm just kind of hearing back from schools, seeing where life is going to take me.
(51:34):
So exciting.
I have one last question.
Any piece of advice to professors or students who are going to book a session? Not professors booking a session.
Professors sending sessions.
Professors actually can book sessions.
It's, like, a lot of work.
But if they want to come, if they want, we welcome them.
So any advice to someone coming into a session at any stage of their academic journey? Well, okay, you stole that from me.
(51:59):
I was going to say come in at any stage because I love the brainstorming.
I love working whenever they have some of a draft, but don't really know where to go with it.
So don't be afraid that you don't have a final draft that you need just some revision on.
Come in at literally any stage of the process.
That was going to be mine, I guess.
(52:22):
Just remember, you can come in with any kind of writing.
Something we don't get a lot is creative writers, which is interesting because a lot of creative writing is like that workshop aspect.
And I know that if you're in a creative writing class, they do that, but say you're just working on something, like, you can bring that to us.
We take personal sessions, personal statements, or just like, personal creative writing.
(52:45):
Or even, like, a resume or a cover letter.
Like, we work on any part of the process, any kind of writing, no matter where you're at, students, even a professor.
I think professors have to contact Mariana if they want to make an appointment, but they can come.
We welcome them.
Be prepared for an onslaught of fanfare is all I'm saying.
Please.
(53:06):
My favorite sessions are the creative ones.
I know Mackenzie disagrees, but not just, like, personal.
That's what we like.
Yeah.
I don't do creative writing, and so I'd love to look at an essay with someone.
That's it.
Yes.
Well, one thing I learned from this episode is that, megan, you have some poetry that you're working on.
Yeah.
Bring out the writing center.
Please make a session with me.
So angsty, but please promise on air that you can promise me.
(53:32):
I'm Alanis Morissette, like, ready on my playlist, and we'll go for it.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your experiences today.
It's been wonderful chatting with you.
I feel like I haven't enough opportunities to talk to writing such a tuners.
So thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us today.
Yeah, thank you so much for being here, and thanks for listening, everybody.
(53:55):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Greetings and welcome to DWR discussions on writing and rhetoric, a space for informal conversations around research and practice in the field.
At the university level, a place inclusive for curious novices, blossoming scholars, and seasoned academics to consider and share their inquiries, experiences, and passions surrounding writing and rhetoric.
(00:29):
We are your hosts, professors Meeghan Faulconer and Nikolas Gardiakos, with the University of Central Florida.
Thank you for joining us.
Now let's get this conversation started.
(00:52):
Today we are joined by Mackenzie McElroy and Lindsey Wright, both undergraduates at UCF and peer tutors in the University Writing center.
They also recently presented on a panel at the Southeastern Writing Center Association conference.
This conversation will offer us a student oriented perspective of what brought them into their roles and what it means to be a contributing member of the UWC in their tutoring sessions as well as in their research.
(01:20):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Mackenzie and Lindsay, thank you for having us.
Thank you.
So to get us started, I thought we could orient our listeners a little bit to the process of what led you into your roles as peer tutors.
Now, full disclosure, McKenzie was my student for EMC 110.
Two, I'm not taking credit, but I'm just letting everyone know transparency here, so I know a little bit, but I'm going to pretend like I don't.
(01:49):
And then, Lindsey, also, could let us know, how did you get to this point at the writing center? Yeah, so Professor Weaver is the current director of the writing center, but at the time that I joined, she was the assistant director.
And so my freshman year, I actually had a class with her, and she would mention the writing center, but I honestly didn't make the connection.
(02:11):
She was like the assistant director.
I was just like, oh, her office is in the writing center.
Okay.
So I actually went a past peer tutor, had been in one of my stats classes, actually, and I was like, oh, working in the writing center? That sounds cool.
So I went to Professor Weaver and was like, can you write me a recommendation to work in the Writing center? And she was like, oh, I'm doing the interviews.
(02:34):
You're fine.
I'll just schedule an interview with you.
And I was like, okay.
So, yeah, I just had the interview scheduled.
It went really well, and even when I talked to her, she was like, I feel like you would be a good fit.
And I was like, okay.
And so I did the interview with her and then Mariana, who's our administrative coordinator, and that's kind of how I wound up in the writing center.
(02:56):
Did you see yourself as someone who welcomed the idea of doing, like, peer reviewing for money? Well, all the time, but yeah.
So I kind of saw myself as someone who's always been interested in editing and, like, the grammar side of things, which I quickly came to learn is not the bulk of what we do in the writing center.
(03:19):
It is helpful, but a lot of the times, it's more like content based sort of things.
So that is, I think, my initial interest.
But from there, it's kind of grown more into the idea of writing in general.
And that's kind of how I approached my own writing to, and my own peer review was like, oh, I'll fix the grammar, and now I'm kind of like, no, it's more than just the grammar.
(03:42):
Dispelling myths.
I love that.
So much good stuff.
So anyone that knows me knows the story and is tired of hearing it.
But just like you had said, I did have you for 1102.
And so the semester after I had you, I went into your office, and I think I was complaining about something, and you just randomly said, do you want to work at the writing center? I said, yeah, sure.
(04:05):
And I know that I've always like, my friends will always send me their essays and stuff, and I'll edit them, help them figure it out.
And so you were just like, I know Professor Brian, and he's working on the interview process, and so you sent my information to him.
I got an email from Weaver, and then I just kind of went for it.
(04:25):
I like to say that I kind of just fell into the writing center, and so I think that's kind of nice.
Yeah.
And I think I also wanted to ask about your different roles in the writing center.
Lindsay, I know you've had multiple or you have multiple roles in the writing center.
And, McKenzie, you've recently presented to my class that was attending via Zoom all about the writing center.
(04:48):
Could you talk a little bit about just the kind of variation experience that you have and roles that you kind of contribute to in the writing center? I'm a chronic over getting myself involved, so why don't you go first, and then I'll talk about what you don't talk about.
Okay, cool.
I don't think any of us have that problem.
(05:09):
Yeah.
So, like, beyond the tutoring session, basically, we also have committees that kind of work to help the center.
And so Lindsay and I both do newsletter, and so we have a newsletter just right.
That comes out twice a semester.
(05:30):
Maybe.
It just kind of depends.
We work on that.
And that's kind of the idea of that was creating a dialogue about writing within UCF, and so we do that.
We also have a social media committee that Lindsey and I have both worked on, lots of random committees, and I know we've also had tutors that have led seminar talking about research that they found.
(05:55):
Jarrett did chaos and empathy, and then we had Leslie and Ryan talk about our valued practices and how to implement those.
So those will be presentations or seminars for other Writing center members as well as the general, like, UCF Community or both.
Those are just for our seminar.
(06:18):
In Seminar.
Seminar is basically the class that we're in after our first semester and where we kind of I'm trying to think because I had it.
Are you trying to describe the class or something? No, seminar.
I had it.
It's like a class, but you get paid basically.
So it's our ongoing tutor education.
(06:41):
It's once a week.
It's an hour and 15 minutes.
You get paid for that hour and 15 minutes.
And you get paid to prepare.
I think you get an extra hour, 15 beforehand.
So it's basically a class.
We read scholarship and then we kind of have a discussion and talk about it.
There are different assignments.
Like, we will do regular observation reports where we observe someone else's tutoring and then we'll write a report.
(07:04):
And that's not to judge each other or evaluate work performance.
That's to grow and see, like, this is what another tutor is doing.
How can I incorporate that? How did that impact the session? That sort of thing.
Sorry, I kind of stole the question.
No, that's okay.
Thank you.
So if you don't mind, you were both recommended or you both found your way into the interview process and you both accepted the terms of saying, yes, this is something I want to do.
(07:34):
And then you took a course which is called Theory and Practice of Tutoring Writing.
Okay.
And it's offered in the FA Falls in the fall semesters.
After that, you have a semester where you kind of shadow tutors.
Is that correct? Is that the process? Or you go right into tutoring? After you take that class, you actually go right into tutoring in the class.
(07:58):
Okay.
The first few weeks, I think, is whenever you're observing, I know they've done it a little differently each year.
And so for my year, we had to do two observations and then two co tutorings.
And so you worked with a veteran tutor, which is just a tutor who isn't a first year tutor.
So you work with them in a session, kind of go back and forth, tutoring someone, and then after that is whenever you kind of go onto the floor.
(08:25):
My first year, I think we went onto the floor in mid October.
And so from there through the rest of the fall semester, your tutoring.
Okay.
My year, they threw us right in.
But that was like three years ago.
So I think they've leaned more towards giving them a little time.
And I think that's been in part because McKenzie's year was I don't want to speak for forever, but, like, the first year, they gave them time and that was also the year we were fully online.
(08:52):
So I think that was part of it.
But then also with Weaver becoming the director, I think that's something that she's like and so has probably going to stay.
Okay.
And so after you transition from with that class and that role of getting into the practicality of tutoring, after that, it's basically your tutor and your continuing requirement is to do this seminar where it's almost like continuing education, best practices for other tutors.
(09:22):
Yeah.
Okay.
And that's where you can learn about the other committees or like, subgroups of the writing center that you might want to be involved in.
Like, you mentioned the social media aspect and I think they were the seminar presentations and stuff like that.
Okay.
So I have a question.
What do you think it is about the university writing center that kind of keeps you coming back for multiple years? Lindsay, I know that you have been there for multiple years working at the writing center, so I'm just curious, what is that sort of internal motivation like for you both that you sort of get out of putting so much kind of work and effort into? Wonder if you could describe that for us.
(10:05):
I love working with the students.
And my favorite thing, like, in sessions is whenever a student comes in and they're like completely confused, they have no idea what's going on, and I'm able to talk it through with them.
Talk through what? They're confused about looking at the assignment with them and kind of figure it out and just seeing whenever the students actually understand something, like, that's really rewarding for me being able to explain it to them and honestly, the environment.
(10:31):
Like, Professor Weaver and Professor Brian and Mariana are probably the greatest people on the planet, and they're just really supportive of everything that we want to do.
Newsletter started because another tutor was just like, oh, maybe we should have a newsletter.
And so Weaver was just kind of like, if you can pitch it to me, we can do it.
And so it's just that supportive.
(10:52):
They will literally support anything that you want to do, obviously within reason, but just the support and how rewarding the sessions are.
And all the tutors are pretty chill.
We're a good bunch, and so everyone is a lot of fun.
Yeah, so kind of the same.
I don't know about Mackenzie and everyone else who worked there, but like all my jobs before working in the writing center, it was the kind of vibe where you pull up, you sit in your car until the very last second and wait to go in because you don't really want to be there, but you want the money.
(11:26):
And now I'm not going to lie, it is kind of like, oh, I have to go do my job.
But it's like, I'll also just go hang out in the center.
And I know Mackenzie was saying this too.
It's a nice place to study, and students can clock in to just work on writing if they don't have an appointment with a tutor.
But especially with people who work there.
It's like, oh, I'll just get there early and work on homework or I'll talk with Professor Brian or Professor Weaver, the other tutors, and just, like, hang out.
(11:53):
It's a very healthy work environment, I think, like, the healthiest one I've at least ever experienced.
And I know because a lot of times, like, my previous jobs were like, retail food service.
And so I think just like, that's a lot of jobs that are available to students versus this is, like, something that's available that you can get that more like professional work environment.
(12:13):
And it's like a healthy one.
Yeah.
And also, I am looking to go to grad school for writing and rhetoric, which I didn't know when I entered the writing center, but that has definitely been something that's, like, kept me coming back, is like, oh, this work is really interesting.
It's going to translate to my grad school work almost directly.
(12:34):
The grad students in the UCF Rhetoric and Composition program, they work in the writing center.
If I choose to go to UCF next year, I'll just be back in the writing center, but as, like, a graduate assistant.
So that, like, clear connection has been something that I've really enjoyed.
Lindsay, were you always a writing major? No.
Okay, well, I came to UCF fully undecided, which was really annoying because everyone always asks, what do you think you want to be? And I'm like, I don't know.
(13:03):
That's why I haven't declared anything.
And so I read through the course catalog a lot, trying to just see what I was interested in.
And so my spring semester, that's why I had the class with Professor Weaver.
I was finishing up my Gen Eds because I had a lot of credits from dual enrollment in high school and stuff.
(13:24):
And so I wound up taking a political science class and then the Writing and Rhetoric Foundations class with Professor Weaver because those were the two majors I was between.
And I did end up choosing political science, but I kept writing and rhetoric as my minor started working in the writing center.
And then I also think that working in the writing center, I kind of got to a point where I was kind of like, political science is very interesting, but it was kind of depressing always having to hear about the world.
(13:53):
They always are like, have you read the news? And I'm like, Reading the news is great, but no, I have not read all of everything you're talking about.
I'm so sorry.
I just cannot do that.
And so kind of shifting to the writing and rhetoric as my major, kind of getting that same, like, thinking about the world and the way people communicate.
That's what politics is.
A lot of people associate the word rhetoric with politics, but from a less depressing angle.
(14:19):
For me personally, a lot of vigorous head nodding on our side.
Yeah, I was a political science major as an undergrad, that was my major.
It was more focused on international relations.
But yeah, not usually the happiest of things that you get to study.
(14:40):
I'm thinking about the ability, when you look at it from a rhetorical standpoint, that you can kind of distance yourself a little bit and look at it more critically.
I think.
Then, I don't know, I'm not a political science major, but it feels like it allows you that space a little bit to not feel maybe as directly affected by it.
You can look at it more academically and see what's happening.
(15:01):
In terms of the positions that are being stated and the arguments being made.
I think it's interesting you both found your way.
I don't want to steal your thunder.
Mackenzie, tell us about how you found your way into Writing and Rhetoric.
Yeah, well, when I started at UCF, so whenever I was actually in your class, I was biomedical Sciences, because all throughout high school, I was in a biomedical sciences program, and it was kind of all I knew.
(15:27):
And so then I was like, all right, I like science, I like math.
We'll continue this.
Then my first semester, I took a psych class.
Was a little interested there.
Then it kind of was like, oh, maybe we like psych a little.
And so I kind of changed my entire major to Psych and went with that for a year.
(15:51):
And then last spring, at the end of the spring, I talk to Professor Brian because I knew working at the Writing Center, I wanted to take another writing class, and he was teaching Writing and Rhetoric foundations during the following summer.
And so I talked to him, trying to get his understanding of if it was going to be a good idea to take it, what it was going to be like by the end of that summer.
(16:17):
We had met a few times on Zoom, and he was just like, maybe you should consider the I think it's the Public and Professional Writing certificate or the Writing and Rhetoric minor.
So I started with the certificate, and then it changed to the minor.
And then this semester, I actually was talking to Dr.
Wheeler, and she was like, oh, you're just a Writing and Rhetoric minor.
(16:41):
I was like, yeah.
So she's like, Why? And so then we had that conversation, and she basically convinced me to double major in Psychology and Writing and Rhetoric because I only have a few site classes left and I only needed a few Writing and Rhetoric, and so it fits in perfectly with, like, whenever I plan to graduate anyway.
(17:01):
And so here we are.
I think those are great stories.
Thank you for sharing both of them.
And it kind of makes me think of one of the questions that I wanted to ask you both, which was, how was your experience at the Writing Center impacted or shaped your academic or even your kind of just social outlook.
(17:22):
Yeah, I feel like my previous answer pretty much gets that because that is why I have now changed my major and have reconsidered my career goals because now I have no idea what I want to do because I've kind of found myself not less interested in Psych, but I'm really enjoying writing and rhetoric a lot.
(17:42):
And so now it's like, well, what can I do with that? And trying to figure that out.
So that's had a lot for me.
Yeah, for me there's also been this aspect of, like I've said before, I'm a chronic overachiever.
And so in the writing and rhetoric, I was in the minor already and I heard about the journal that we have convergence rhetoric, and I was like, that's really cool, but I don't think I've done anything in my classes yet that I can submit.
(18:10):
And then the final project that we do in the tutoring class, the Theory and Practice of Tutoring writing, it's like this big research project.
You have to record one of your tutoring sessions with the writer's permission, write a transcript of a section of it, and then you kind of look at it, analyze it, and then you make a claim about it based on the research you've read throughout the semester and kind of talk about, like, how your tutoring is, like, impacting the writer.
(18:40):
And so I did that whole project, and I think that was the first time I was actually, like, proud of my writing instead of just being like, I did the thing I'm done.
And so the semester after that, I submitted it to Convergence and got it published.
And then from there, I've been published in Convergence like three times now there's the Imprint magazine that the Department of Writing and Writer has.
(19:03):
It's kind of like a different slant.
It's more like articles, like, I've been publishing there too.
And so just kind of that idea of becoming like a scholar, the writing center has really helped me get to that point.
That's so powerful because that is such a huge shift and it's one that's really difficult, I feel as a student in particular in undergrad, to feel like you have any sort of agency in your writing.
(19:28):
And so I think that's really important to hear.
And I also think it's really important to hear that you don't necessarily have to come into college with a predetermined plan.
I feel like those students are so lucky that they're like, I want to be this and I know it, and I've known it since I was six years old and I know my path and this is what it is.
But I feel like that's a really small portion of our demographic just as humans.
(19:50):
And the fact that even now you're saying, I'm going to graduate and I'm not sure what the next step is, that's really natural, and I think that needs to be embraced a little bit more than this idea that we constantly have to be so predetermined in everything that we're doing, but getting to that idea of research.
Also, I'm curious.
Lindsay, I know that you have done some research and applied that research to some revisions to the University Writing Center website in terms of accessibility.
(20:18):
Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Yeah, so that was part of our Inquiry projects that we do in seminar, which is our so in every spring semester.
That's when we do those, like, Inquiry projects where I know McKenzie talked about them earlier, they're different a little bit every year.
But you kind of look at the Writing Center and you're like, what do I think we should know more about? What do I think we should change? And so because last year they were very focused on what we should change, me and a few other tutors were like, our website is kind of ugly.
(20:49):
Let's work on that.
And so I had actually taken a class, Writing for Digital Environments previously that had had a unit on accessible design.
And so from there, I kind of learned this idea that accessible design isn't just about having alt text or making sure it's compatible with screen readers.
It's also just making sure that the design makes sense.
(21:12):
If you're hiding your buttons all around the screen, you don't know how to navigate that's not accessible design.
And so we kind of looked over the website, and we're like, we have these tabs that no one really uses.
It doesn't really make sense.
It's hard to find things.
And so we did some research on that, proposed the changes.
(21:32):
And then since then, not everything that we've proposed.
Some of it is still in process.
Some of it just like, sometimes you propose things and they don't happen.
It happens.
Now, our website is definitely better.
Like I said, it'll work in progress.
Specifically, our Resources page, we're currently working on updating, but yeah.
(21:54):
Okay.
And McKenzie, you did some research in regards to correct me if I'm wrong, like external perceptions of the Writing Center.
Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Yeah, so for my Inquiry project, I kind of didn't have an idea of what I wanted to do.
And so I joined a group of two tutors who had an idea, and one of them, our dear friend Kelly, was advertising, and public relations was her major.
(22:22):
And so this was very much like her thing.
And so she wanted to look at how basically everyone outside of the Writing Center views the Writing center.
And I thought that was really interesting.
And so I joined this group.
And so we've noticed in sessions that we get a lot of students who come in and they think that we're just going to edit their papers for them.
(22:46):
And a lot of the times, no offense to you guys or any other professors, listening, the students get their understanding of the writing center from their professors.
And so a lot of the times that's where that, oh, they'll edit their papers for you, this is where you need to go for it.
And so looking at that, we kind of figured the professors are who we need to target.
(23:07):
And so from there, we kind of created the survey, which we never got sent out.
It was supposed to, but now it's going to guide some further things that we're going to do in the center.
And so we want to figure out what professors know about the writing center and figure out how we can kind of correct these ideas that they are having with it.
And so we are planning on having some like, faculty focus groups and looking at obviously, like I said, what they know about the writing center.
(23:34):
Have they ever been to the writing, like, visited the writing center? Have they talked to people from the writing center and just kind of gauge their understanding of that and so that we can kind of fix the messaging that we're putting out to professors so that can help how they convey that to their students.
And so then we'll get students in here that are actually wanting to improve their writing and become better writers, not just edit their papers so they'll get 100 on the paper.
(24:00):
I don't mean to put you on the spot.
I'm curious.
Are you considering universal type messaging that would be applicable to every discipline at UCF? Or are you looking to more target the way that your messaging would impact particular portions of our communities? If that makes sense? It does.
Okay, so most of the messaging is like two professors.
(24:25):
So like, in the professor syllabus, you guys can put the information about the writing center.
And so a lot of the times we've noticed that professors have either put like just the location, phone number, email, maybe something a little more, but then we'll have professors that are putting like two paragraphs of what the writing center does.
(24:46):
And so I think it was Professor Weaver told us that professors can actually get their information from faculty resources.
And so a lot of times that's where they're getting it.
And so if we can figure out a way to edit that messaging to make that a little more apparent, so then when professors are going to faculty resources, when they're making their syllabus to get this information, that's where they can kind of see the messaging and then convey it further to their students.
(25:12):
Yeah, and also I wanted to chime in too, and kind of put in a plug for having students from the writing center talk to students in class, as I did during the UCF Writing fest where you all were presenting to my NC 1102 class.
What I thought was interesting about the way in which they reacted, even though it was via zoom.
(25:36):
So you all couldn't see it was when you were all we're talking about how you can help students in the process of figuring out their ideas or research questions, those sort of planning stages and the stages of writing, where they're coming up with their ideas, or if they were struggling to come up with ideas.
The University writing center could be a resource for that.
(25:59):
And it's one thing for me to tell them that, which I tell them to get feedback on that level from the University Writing Center.
But to see the students.
To see you all there talking again via zoom.
But to them from other students.
I think really kind of changes with that messaging is like and also it's a struggle with what students perception of revision is.
(26:28):
Which is something that we try and talk about in the comp classes too.
And I know you all know are aware of too.
Just the idea that students have that revising.
Even when I asked them about it.
They're like.
Yeah.
I'll change this word.
Or I'll look for a better word there.
Then that's it.
And then I'm done.
So trying to kind of change that, is that something that you see even on a one to one kind of tutoring basis when students come in, that their idea of what happens in the process of revising and changing.
(27:04):
I imagine that can be a really cool kind of teaching experience.
The students that come in to talk to you, has that been your experience? It can be cool, but it can also be frustrating because they're like, come edit my paper.
And I'm like, that's not actually what we do here.
Sometimes people will go the opposite extreme and be like, no, we don't work on grammar.
(27:26):
We do work on grammar.
It's just more about, like, learning and collaborating.
So say a student comes in and they do have grammar mistakes that are impeding the comprehension.
Then it's like, okay, let's talk about this.
Let's learn what a commerce place is.
Let's maybe go over how you can make this a little more clear.
(27:46):
But then sometimes my Inquiry Project this semester is actually working on how we can better help multilingual and other just graduate students who come in with their species, because those are really long, and a lot of the times they just want the grammar checked.
Sometimes they're from a very scientific field, and we can help with papers across all disciplines.
(28:07):
But when you get that really long, really dense thesis, it's like, how can I best help you? Because I am not an editor.
And so my Inquiry Project this semester is kind of looking like, how can we help them? Because right now it's kind of like with our values that we've kind of defined in the past two years.
(28:30):
Like, empathy is on there, but then so is learning and growth.
And so it's kind of like a tug between the empathy of, like, They need the editing help.
They spend all this time on this thesis.
They're not here for grammar right now.
But then the learning aspect of, okay, we're not an editing center.
How do I help them? Is there also resistance in terms of a thesis? Is a very laborious, personal endeavor? Is there resistance from the author that in terms of expertise, I only want you to correct my grammar because I don't trust you to be able to give me any feedback.
(29:08):
Like, I know better.
I'm the one who's done the research.
I've done all of this work.
I don't want you messing with the way this is organized or other types of feedback that might be helpful.
Is that part of that consideration as well? I'm going to be honest.
A lot of the times, because the thesis is so big, we don't even really get to organization.
(29:31):
It's more just like going through the grammar.
And a lot of times, if it is scientific, it's like sometimes I won't even comprehend, which is not the ideal session, right? But it's like the reality of it.
And so sometimes I'll be like, can you explain this to me? And they'll explain it not going to lie.
(29:52):
I don't understand it.
But I'm like, okay, that's a noun.
I understand now that this is a noun concept.
And so I'm going to have you change this verb thing now that you explain to this whole scientific thing that I'm definitely going to forget in the learning sessions.
Because sometimes students come in with their thesis and they do like, they want to learn.
Like, you'll tell them to fix something and they'll be like, okay, why? Or they'll be like, oh, they'll understand.
(30:16):
Like, you tell them something once and then they'll apply it later on their own because they're like, I got that.
But sometimes they just want the corrections.
It's kind of hard.
I can imagine.
Yeah, you mentioned the values and practices, and I'm looking at them here, and some of them just kind of pop out to me as interesting questions.
(30:38):
So, Mackenzie, I'll throw this one to you.
The one that I highlighted here is adaptability, and it says, acknowledge that chaos is part of learning.
Know when to adjust and prioritize new goals that arise.
And I think if I could come up with a super short definition of what teaching is like, that might be it.
(31:02):
So I was wondering and I love it.
I love it because I think adaptability is something that keeps everything kind of fresh every time, even if you taught the same class or had the same experience tutoring and stuff like that.
So I was wondering what your thoughts were experiences were on that.
Yeah.
(31:22):
So whenever we're trained to tutor, we're typically taught that you need to negotiate an agenda for the session at the very beginning.
So basically having a conversation with the writer and figuring out what they want to work on what their concerns are, what can get done in a 45 minutes session.
Because sometimes, like Lindsay said, they'll bring in these large CCS and you're like, We've got 45 minutes.
(31:44):
What do you really want to get through? And so with that, once you negotiate something, you'll typically start on looking at it, but sometimes you get halfway through and you notice that there might be some deeper concerns or that the writer might feel unsure with what they actually have that's not relating to that initial agenda.
(32:05):
And so once you notice that, that's whenever you can kind of take a step back and say, okay, I know we started wanting to look at this, but what if we look at this instead for a little bit, or the rest of the session? And so kind of figuring that out.
I know that gives a lot of relief to the students whenever they understand.
Yes, just because we said we were going to work on this one thing in the very beginning, we don't have to work on that the entire time.
(32:28):
We can change things up in a session.
Chaos like Jarrett, a fellow tutor, loves to emphasize, is very much part of the writing sessions.
Having that conjures up such an image of what's happening in the writing center, that like chaos.
Yeah, we're flipping tables around in the sessions, throwing chairs at each other.
(32:49):
But yeah, it's not that kind of chaos.
It's more of like how writers feel about their writing, how they feel about their assignments, if they have outside stressors that are going on, like they're anxious about another class, and so it's affecting how they're feeling about this.
And so you can kind of take that moment in the session and just stop what you're doing.
And I like to kind of sit down with him and ask him, OK, so I noticed you're anxious about this.
(33:14):
What is making you anxious about this particular assignment? What's going on outside of it? And you can kind of figure out how to navigate the rest of the session once you actually have those conversations.
There's so much adaptability, and it is very close to teaching.
And this is something I've noticed about myself the longer that I have given feedback to students and that I can look at papers objectively and give meaningful critique of how they could improve and make their writing more effective.
(33:46):
It has improved my personal writing tremendously, especially in the academic.
I mean, my poetry is still super angsty and I wouldn't show it to anyone, but my academic writing has improved tremendously.
And even my ability to edit my own academic writing has improved tremendously.
What have you seen personally in terms of skills that you can apply in your own writing since you've started working in the writing center? I'll start with this one.
(34:09):
So I was very much for most of my academic career, I'll write one draft and that's it.
Don't try to ask me to edit anything the Church of submitted 1159 and pray.
I think I can get it done, and we're good.
I'll write it an hour before it's due.
The best writing I feel like I have.
(34:31):
But obviously, coming into college, that's not what they want from you.
You need multiple drafts.
You need to show revisions that you're actually making.
I do remember in my junior year of high school, my teacher Love, we had to revise everything, like, our major papers and stuff.
So I used to purposely, when I write the first draft, I would make mistakes so that I had something to edit.
(34:59):
Confession.
Yeah.
So sorry.
Mark Williams, if you're listening, yeah.
So I would literally do that because I hated editing my own stuff, because I just want to write one thing, and I'm done editing other people's stuff, no problem.
Obviously, I can't do that here in college.
And so actually, implementing editing and revision has been a major thing for me.
(35:24):
And talking to other students and seeing what their editing and revision processes are and talking to other tutors and professors and stuff, doing that has definitely changed.
Obviously, I do a lot of editing now.
I think I've learned a lot about what the ideal writing process looks like.
Do I still write my papers and submit them at 1159? Perhaps.
(35:47):
But, you know, we're only human.
Yeah.
So I think it has helped more.
Like I said, I recently was applying to grad school, just like, we get a lot of people writing personal statements in the writing center.
So I was kind of like, I know how to do this.
Definitely still is a struggle doing your own, but the genre was very familiar to me.
So, Capacious, tell me about yourself in 500 words.
(36:11):
Yeah, but it is better with grad school than when I experienced applying to college, because in grad school, it's like, I know I'm going to this specific thing versus especially coming in undecided to college.
I was like, Just admit me, please.
(36:32):
Can you talk to us a little bit about your experience presenting at the Southeastern Writing Center Association Conference? Now, I know this is a conference that is open to both, like, instructors that are working in writing centers as well as students.
So how did you find yourselves presenting? I mean, don't just say that somebody asked you and you said, yes, please give us something more romantic or exciting.
(36:54):
Okay, then I'll lie, because it literally was lindsay said, do you want to do this? I said, yes.
All right, Lindsay, so what led you to ask me my chronic overachiever tendencies? So I had actually, with another tutor and our two directors presented at the International Writing Center Association Conference last fall.
(37:17):
And so after doing that, I was like, I want to do it again and just kind of get involved, be able to present the research to other people.
And a lot of it is that just like, I like doing things, but it is nice to get that experience and learn, like presenting.
Isn't that scary? Honestly, on Zoom, it's definitely easier than in person, but yeah, it was just a good experience.
(37:44):
And kind of going back to that idea of affirming myself as a scholar, I did this thing and now people in the field want to listen sort of thing.
I'm not just doing this for class.
So what did you both present on? It was together on a panel? Yes.
Okay.
Was it the same project and you just took turns reading parts of it or were there different components? No.
(38:07):
So we talked about our individual inquiry project because the four of us, we all did separate ones.
And so the whole panel was just looking at inquiry projects.
I don't remember the actual title of it, but it was something about really long, so long.
But I know the one we did basically the same presentation for UCF's Writing Fest.
And I know that's how it was like inquiry and action based research.
(38:30):
So it was like looking at our research and what we had done, what we had completed in the center, obviously what we had hoped to complete.
And so each of us talked about our own research and basically went through the whole process of how we decided what we were doing, what changes we wanted to see and what changes had been made and where we're at now.
How did it feel to be presenting amongst other scholars? We had eight people.
(38:55):
It was at 09:00 a.m..
I m on a Saturday.
We had eight people, and one of them was Professor Brian.
But they know that all the eight people that attended were in your actually, it was pretty good for 09:00 A.m., I wouldn't have been awake.
I presented at the South Atlantic MLA Convention Conference last year and literally we had like, two people show up to our panels.
(39:20):
So you should be proud of yourself.
Yeah.
What about other did you attend panels as well? Do you have time for that? I was just wondering, I'm curious what are some of the conversations going on amongst now that you're seasoned Writing Center professionals and presenting in the field? I'm wondering what are some of the questions that are going on in that field and in that community that you heard about while going to presenting and attending and sharing information? It was the same week as Writing Fest, so we were pretty busy.
(39:58):
I personally didn't get to attend any of the other panels, but there had been a different conference, I want to say like the Northwest Pacific one or something like that, that was actually like free for, I think, maybe undergraduates to attend or something.
So I had gone a while ago to a panel on that and they had been talking about asynchronous drop off tutoring because you'd think that would be like editing type thing.
(40:23):
Like, you drop off your paper, you get it back.
And so they were kind of talking about how it's not editing, like, how they manage.
That different, the pull between editing and tutoring, because that's something like all writing centers kind of struggle with.
And so that was part of I had already kind of had the idea on my mind that I wanted to look into how we can help multilingual graduate student writers.
(40:47):
But that was something like, I went to that panel because I wanted more information on that.
And so then from there, with my inquiry project, we're kind of looking at possibly implementing something asynchronous like that with maybe they drop off their paper and then they come in for the feedback.
We're not sure.
But that is like a conversation in the field that's directly related to my current inquiry research.
(41:12):
Yeah, I don't have as good of an answer as Lindsay.
Like she had said, it was that same week of Writing Fest.
I did two panels for Writing Fest, and then I also had a lot of assignments.
So actually, I went to Professor Brian's presentation for SWCA, the Southeastern Writing Center Association, that conference, for about 15 minutes before we had to do one of our panels.
(41:40):
So I know he talked about session notes, and I don't really remember so much about it, but I know he was looking at basically what session notes can do and what they've been looking like in the past.
Session notes are basically what we send to students after their session that kind of gives them an idea of what we did in the session, any sources that we provide them with resources, like citation stuff, if they need to know how to write personal statements.
(42:14):
We have a bunch of resources like that on our website.
And then we also like to just look them up during sessions if we don't have a specific resource, just so the students can have those after the session.
Because most of the time, if anyone told me a website during a conversation, I would never remember it.
I'll have to write it down somewhere or have them tell me again later.
And so we use session notes like that.
And so he's I know his presentation, which I don't remember most of it, but I know he was talking about, like, how session notes are being used and how they've changed in the last few years.
(42:45):
So you had a major revision of your values and practices with the way that this form as you're working through a session with a student.
You said it used to be much more like a checklist, like, have I done these things? And instead now it's categories of are you meeting the students needs in these areas and however your interactions changed.
(43:06):
So those are your notes as tutors.
Correct.
So is there a push in the Writing Center currently to revise the way we're approaching the student session or the session notes for the students.
I know.
So Professor Brian and Professor Weaver are doing some sort of, like, research and looking into that.
They don't so much want us to change them, but we do kind of go over them at the beginning of every semester, like, hey, these are the things you should be including, not, like, as a reprimand, but just as a refresher.
(43:38):
And here, I know at the beginning of this semester, we talked about having kind of, like, an opening, like, summarizing what they did.
Because session notes have a couple of different audiences.
We do send them to the student, but they're also stored in our system.
So say I have a writer coming in, I'm like, maybe I recognize that name.
I can look and see who they worked with before and those notes, which is why Professor Brian is able to do this research.
(44:03):
I think we have, like, session notes going back, like, ten years or something ridiculous, because then, yeah, like, our directors are another audience for them to kind of look through and say, like, okay, what are they doing in sessions? What are they writing about? And just kind of going through that data.
Also, professors, a lot of times, if professors require their students to come to a session either just for a grade or, like, part of their grade or for extra credit, a lot of the time they want to see the session notes as proof that they came.
(44:35):
And that's also was part of my inquiry project last year about external perception, trying to figure out what professors actually want to see from those session notes, because we have really no idea.
We just know that they use them as proof.
So what do they want to see? And so then looking at that, professors are another audience for our session notes and two very different audiences.
(44:56):
The notes are for the students to improve their writing.
That's a very different kind of report than you would give to a professor about the session.
I had a question about just curious about what kinds of conversations do you have with Professor Brian or Professor Weaver about how the university writing center is kind of situated in the UCF community at large.
(45:17):
I know you've talked about wanting to change perceptions of what the writing center does or how it can specifically help students, but I wonder if you also have had conversations or thoughts on how the university writing center just kind of fits into the university community as a whole and serves all aspects of our community here at UCF.
(45:44):
That was your research.
You should answer.
I can.
Yeah, go for it.
I don't know.
So writing centers are kind of historically, like I don't want to say look down upon and marginalized isn't quite the right word either, but they're kind of like they tend to be in, like, basements off in the corner type thing.
(46:07):
I don't know if it was the first writing center, but the writing center at UCF used to literally be in a portable trailer type thing.
And now we have a really nice place.
We've really gone up in the world.
But yeah, writing centers just tend to be looked down upon.
There's also this idea in academia that I don't want to say editing, because editing isn't what we do, but editing and just having someone help you with your writing is a type of plagiarism, which isn't correct.
(46:34):
Like, all writing is done in a community, but sometimes writing centers, that's one of the reasons we don't do editing is because people are like, getting someone to edit your writing is plagiarism.
And so we're like, no, we don't do that.
We tutor.
And that is like more beneficial for the students learning.
But it's also that idea of like, further perception of academia.
(46:55):
Like, we're not messing with the writing, it's still the students writing.
We're tutor.
So we're just like situated in like a really weird place where people see us as an editing service, but they also don't want us to promote plagiarism.
And so I think there's a lot of misconceptions about what the writing center does because of all those different factors.
(47:16):
I would have thought that because coming in as a student, I would think that the writing center would be somewhere you would go if you needed remedial help with writing.
That's another one that was a big problem.
That would have been there's the math lab that you go to if you need help with your math homework.
And then there's the writing center if you need help with your writing because you're not quite understanding the concepts or whatever it may be.
(47:39):
So I would have imagined that that would have been an aspect as well and one that we're working to overcome when we say, hey, we have people bringing in their theses.
This is not like basic I need help writing a literacy narrative in ANC eleven one, but this runs the gamut from your first class.
(48:00):
And also I wondered too if the expectation was at the university if you've made it this far and you've gotten into UCF, you've demonstrated that you have these skills.
I feel like Liam Neeson right now, like a very particular set of skills.
So I wonder too if there's like that misconception tied to the idea of it being remedial or editorial that they're not serving the larger masses of our students, which is really a terrible misconception because we can help everybody.
(48:31):
And I say we are down now.
Okay, but I've sat with you in a podcast, so I'm sure I could I'm sure you jump right in.
Absolutely.
Come on in.
You take one of my hours.
We are currently hiring.
Yeah, I don't know when this is going to come out though.
We won't be hiring by then.
No application is closed.
(48:52):
Next week.
I understand that there is the call for applications right now, and that is fantastic.
I have recommended some of my students.
Did you fill out an application yourself, though? I don't think they'd hire me.
So my parents actually came and watched my panel, and then I guess Professor Bryan sent out the application to everyone who watched the panel.
(49:12):
So I called my parents one day, and my dad was like, we're going to work together.
And I'm like, what? And he's like, I got an application.
I'm like, okay, you're an engineer.
Sure you're just going to come work in the writing center? Hey, we do have an engineering major.
We have an engineering major, not a civil engineer fully established in a job.
You're right.
That was the writing I mean, we all have room to improve, right? This is true.
(49:34):
Yeah.
And in fairness, Dr.
Whaler's mom came and watched her panel of her I think it was her grads or undergrad students majors.
I think it was the first.
Yeah.
So don't ever stop inviting your parents.
Wonderful.
They're happy to see it.
They're happy to see what you're doing.
So we're closing in our time for this episode, but I wanted to know what future projects or goals that you have going on that you're excited about in the future.
(50:03):
Yeah, well, Lindsey has already talked about her current Inquiry project, and so my group, we're looking at navigating emotional responses from writers in sessions.
And so sometimes we get I don't want to say aggressive, but we kind of have been using the term aggressive a lot in conversation.
(50:23):
We get writers that just don't want to listen to what we have to say or very apathetic about being there because our professors require the sessions.
And so looking at how to navigate those and seeing what other writing centers have been doing and kind of trying to figure out how common are these.
Really.
In our sessions.
Because I feel like we all have stories of.
(50:44):
Like.
Oh.
Yeah.
I had this writer who ignored everything I said in the session.
Or.
I have a writer that kind of seems to get a little aggressive.
And I just kind of brushed it off and went with it.
And so trying to understand how we can better educate our tutors to not, like, stand up for themselves, but know their place in the session and know that they do have all of that power to stand up for themselves in a session.
(51:10):
And so that's what we're currently looking at.
Yeah.
I've spoken about my Inquiry project.
I'm going to grad school next year.
I don't know where, but writing center studies is a big part of the reckoning field.
So I could potentially, depending on where I end up being in the writing center again somewhere else or here.
And I'm just kind of hearing back from schools, seeing where life is going to take me.
(51:34):
So exciting.
I have one last question.
Any piece of advice to professors or students who are going to book a session? Not professors booking a session.
Professors sending sessions.
Professors actually can book sessions.
It's, like, a lot of work.
But if they want to come, if they want, we welcome them.
So any advice to someone coming into a session at any stage of their academic journey? Well, okay, you stole that from me.
(51:59):
I was going to say come in at any stage because I love the brainstorming.
I love working whenever they have some of a draft, but don't really know where to go with it.
So don't be afraid that you don't have a final draft that you need just some revision on.
Come in at literally any stage of the process.
That was going to be mine, I guess.
(52:22):
Just remember, you can come in with any kind of writing.
Something we don't get a lot is creative writers, which is interesting because a lot of creative writing is like that workshop aspect.
And I know that if you're in a creative writing class, they do that, but say you're just working on something, like, you can bring that to us.
We take personal sessions, personal statements, or just like, personal creative writing.
(52:45):
Or even, like, a resume or a cover letter.
Like, we work on any part of the process, any kind of writing, no matter where you're at, students, even a professor.
I think professors have to contact Mariana if they want to make an appointment, but they can come.
We welcome them.
Be prepared for an onslaught of fanfare is all I'm saying.
Please.
(53:06):
My favorite sessions are the creative ones.
I know Mackenzie disagrees, but not just, like, personal.
That's what we like.
Yeah.
I don't do creative writing, and so I'd love to look at an essay with someone.
That's it.
Yes.
Well, one thing I learned from this episode is that, megan, you have some poetry that you're working on.
Yeah.
Bring out the writing center.
Please make a session with me.
So angsty, but please promise on air that you can promise me.
(53:32):
I'm Alanis Morissette, like, ready on my playlist, and we'll go for it.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your experiences today.
It's been wonderful chatting with you.
I feel like I haven't enough opportunities to talk to writing such a tuners.
So thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us today.
Yeah, thank you so much for being here, and thanks for listening, everybody.
(53:55):
Thank you.
Thank you.
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