June 25, 2025 • 57 mins
Host Carlene reunites with high school friend Sarah Lau for an intimate conversation about navigating life's challenges and joys as women in their forties.
• Sarah shares her experience turning 40 with a 16-month-old baby and a nine-year-old daughter
• Motherhood feels different at 40 compared to 30—less energy but more experience and purposefulness
• Medical professionals increasingly normalize pregnancy in your late thirties/early forties
• Returning to work after maternity leave in your forties can open doors to new career opportunities
• The biggest misconception about turning 40 is that you're "on the downhill" when it's actually an upward trajectory
• Going through divorce in your thirties can feel like failure, especially within certain cultural contexts
• Finding love again after divorce takes time and personal growth
• Setting rigid life timelines (marriage by 28, kids by 30) creates unnecessary pressure
• Taking breaks or detours in your career journey isn't catastrophic in the context of a 45-year career
• Women in their forties often have better relationships, clearer priorities, and more self-acceptance
Connect with us on Instagram @diva_tonight to join the conversation about women's experiences in their forties.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Carlene and this is Diva.
Tonight, a series on women intheir 40s.
Tonight, I have a colleague ofmine.
We've known each other for 20years and we went to high school
together and she is awesome andwe're both 40 now and her name
(00:25):
is Sarah Lau.
Sarah, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi, carleen, I'm doing pretty awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Thanks for making the time to do this.
I mean, we really are recordingat night.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I feel like we need to because I got to put the kids
to sleep and then this is mommytime, where I get to catch up.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Right, yeah, I mean, I feel like this is not just an
episode, but more or less aconversation and also time to
reconnect and, like you know,just remember our like days in
high school, because you justturned 40.
Did you turn 41?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, no 41 is coming up late summer this year.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh, yeah, so we are.
Yeah, I just turned 41 thismonth, so it's just like I've
had a full year in my 40s andI'm like you know, but for you
let's, let's start from thebeginning.
So what did you do for your40th birthday?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah.
So in my mind I feel like I hadthis huge idea that it was
going to be a big turning pointin my life and then, as the week
started getting closer to it, Iactually started to come to
terms with it a bit and didn'treally want to make too big of a
(01:48):
deal of it.
We ended up on the day of mypartner and I.
We woke up really early.
We had sent the kids over to myparents' house and so we had
the night before to ourselves,and then we got up early and
played a round of golf and thenwe went out for a nice dinner.
(02:11):
And that was pretty much it, Ithink.
Leading up to the birthday wedid a few other outings.
We went camping, went to a fewbreweries, met up with some
friends and family members, andI'd say the festivities spanned
for the good portion of about aweek.
But on the day of it was justyou know, myself and Jeremy and
(02:34):
we just you know did our ownthing, and you know we were with
my kids on the day of mybirthday for a nice dinner.
That was it.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And now that you've had a few months, you know, in
this new journey I guess that'swhat they call it Like it's a
different stage of life because,you know, 40 is not just the
number, it's more like thechanges that happen in our body
is women, and I think that's whyI thought it would be a good
idea to do this series, becausethere's so many conversations
(03:06):
that are still hard to have whenyou turn 40.
Like it's all the healthconcerns and you know you're a
mom and so as a mom now, at thisstage in your life and you have
a very young one, like how oldis the baby?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
now.
Yeah, she just turned 16 monthslast week.
Yeah, 100% agree with you that.
You know things are a littledifferent now.
I had my older daughter when Iwas 30.
Oh, wow.
So there's a nine-year age gapbetween my two daughters.
(03:43):
A nine year age gap between mytwo daughters, and so you know I
, I was definitely a differentperson the first time around, a
lot more energetic, and you knowthings were, were tougher in
the sense that, like you know,it was my first time.
But you know, bouncing back andcertainly energy levels managing
a newborn were were, you know,substantially higher back then
(04:07):
than it is now.
But I think there's a bit of atrade off because I also, you
know, come with the experienceof being a second time mom and
so I looked at motherhood verydifferently and I ended up
taking a year off from work andI really was purposeful about
(04:31):
that year off.
So you know, the first fewmonths of dealing with the
newborn are tough.
But after that, you know, Iwanted to do a lot of things
within that year that were both,you know, for myself as well as
like physically improving, youknow, myself as well as you know
, making sure that my mentalhealth was in check.
(04:53):
So I would, you know, meet upwith friends.
I would work on my golf gameWow, you know things that I
wanted to do and I had a reallygreat support system at home.
So, you know, my mom would comeover and watched a little one
(05:14):
while I took a few hours off.
And, you know, I think that wasreally important because I knew
that, as a 40-year-old mother,you know things aren't going to
come as easy as they did when Iwas 30.
But, that being said, like Ididn't feel old and I think that
the important thing I think toyou know potential mothers, or
(05:34):
you know people who are thinkingabout having a baby later in
life.
It actually nowadays I feel likeit's not that big of a deal and
I certainly didn't feel thatthere was a ton of stigma behind
being a 40-year-old mom to anewborn, which I think is a
(05:56):
culture shift.
And the first time that I reallycame to terms with that was
when I found out that I waspregnant the second time around
and I went to go see my familydoctor and I let her know that,
hey, you know, did the homepregnancy test and, you know,
came out positive.
And I asked her and I said, youknow, is there anything
(06:19):
different or special that Ishould worry about?
Because I was thirty nine atthe time, yeah, and, and she's
like nah, all good, most of mypatients are around your age and
having their first kid.
So she never once used the termhigh-risk pregnancy with me,
(06:42):
and so that gave me a huge senseof comfort and kind of
validation that, hey, it's okaythat I'm a little bit older and
having a baby at this stage inmy life, because you know, as my
family doctor, she seemed tosee it a lot with her patients
as well.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
You know.
I'm glad you touched on thatbecause I think that's the one
thing that seems to be atouching point, like a point of
reference when you're in your30s, because you said you had
your first child and you're at30, right, and that's a really
good age to have a child, youknow, because you're still young
, you still have energy, likeyou said.
(07:21):
But I think there's a lot ofmisconceptions with 40.
And I think it really has to dowith your family history, how
you take care of yourself, likementally and physically, because
you just mentioned that a lotlike a lot of her patients other
than like, besides, you arehaving kids later on in life too
(07:43):
, and that you can do it.
It's just that I guess the oneissue is is like you're not
going to have the same energylike you did 10 years ago, maybe
a little bit different in termsof raising a child, right, but
I think that's that's great,that you had a good pregnancy
and there wasn't a lot of likeissues along the way, right.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, and we know the science behind it is that the
older you are, the there is ahigher level of risk for that
being said, like I wouldn't wantothers to think that, or or
have that fear and, you know,prevent them from going down
that journey if that's alwaysbeen something that they wanted
(08:30):
to fulfill in their lives,despite, you know, just turning
a certain age like 40.
Don't, don't let that preventyou from doing anything in life.
That prevent you from doinganything in life, because that,
in my mind, we're still the samehigh school girls that we were,
(08:52):
you know, 25 years ago.
We might look a tiny bitdifferent, but you know there,
are you still competing with mein class now?
absolutely, carlene.
I think it was what likeenglish and geography yes, you
remember, oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I still talk about it now.
Sometimes when I reference I'mlike you know me and this girl,
sarah, like we would compete,like even though I know I'm not
gonna beat her in certainsubjects she'd be like I
remember you'd be like carlene,what'd you get?
I'm like I know you beat me,but I got 85, what'd you get?
And then you're like I don'tknow if it was like a 90, some
like it was high, high nineties,right.
(09:29):
And I'm like Sarah, why are weeven?
The only thing I think I beatyou in and we didn't even take
that class together is gym.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I one year I had a hundred percent in gym class and
I was like and you're tallerthan me, so for sure you would
have beat me in gym, because youcan spike the ball much better
than I can in volleyball.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, that's so funny Because, you know, in high
school I wasn't that good atvolleyball but I got better with
time.
Like you know, I'm not like apro or anything, but I started
playing beach volleyball fiveyears ago and it was so much
harder then than it is now.
But I love that we canreminisce about our time in high
(10:13):
school, you know, because itwas we had.
We had a good group and youknow what's really nice is when
we message Miss Vasevilla andlike she'll respond to like the
group chat about something.
I don't know if you've seenwhat I've posted.
I posted a photo on my page andshe responded to it.
I posted a photo of us from Ithink it was the athletic
(10:36):
banquet and it's a very fuzzyphoto, but I managed to take one
.
And then someone was like wheredid you get this?
I'm like it's in my vault.
I have a lot of pictures.
I loved taking pictures when Iwas in high school.
My sister was like you'realways had a Kodak camera, like
you know, so I don't know if yousaw it.
Yeah, Sarah, you gotta go on myFacebook and see.
(10:58):
I post it like it's me you.
Um, what's her name?
Mylon Yim.
There's a whole bunch of us inthe photo.
Oh my god I'm gonna go check itfor sure, you know it'll bring
you back.
You know what I mean.
It's one of those things wherewe definitely worked hard and,
(11:19):
like you know, the saying goes,we played hard too, you know
it's funny you say that like youknow, back then, like something
like volleyball was was tough,and now, with experience and
practice, it's gotten easier.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
For you, right, and even in our older age, right?
Um, certain things get easierand certain things get harder.
I think that's just just theway of life.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
I don't know how I'll be on the court right now,
because beach volleyball isdifferent in terms of court,
like court, like what do I sayabout that?
There's just a differenttechnique involved.
But yeah, I think in terms ofskillset, you know what I mean.
Like you said certain thingswith age, just like it's with
anything like you just have topractice more at it, just like
(12:09):
you know you're, you're a momand you have two kids now and
I'm sure you've had twodifferent experiences raising
your first child and your secondchild right, yeah, and I don't
think I can say that like onewas better than the other, like
they were just very different.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
But I would say that, you know, with the added
experience that I have thesecond go around, the second
time I think I was betterprepared and that made me just a
happier person overall when Iwas going through postpartum.
Oh, okay, yeah, and you know,my second daughter is actually
(12:53):
very low maintenance and she,you know, things came a little
bit easier the feeding, thesleeping, the sleeping and so I
think in that sense it helped toallow me to focus on things for
myself and and really allow methe time to step away from, like
(13:15):
, constant motherhood and thengo and, you know, do things that
that made me happy in the yearthat I was off.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So, getting back to what you just spoke about, I
think a lot of people don'treally talk about postpartum and
how hard it is.
So if you could for me I'm nota mom and I am.
I haven't had that experience.
So can you tell me or just toanyone who's listening what that
(13:45):
was like, what was the hardpart about it?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, certainly.
I would say.
You know, this time therecovery process was probably a
bit better for me in that, youknow, I was able to get back on
my feet and, you know, deal withsome of the aftermath pain a
lot better.
I did have my parents close byand they were able to, you know,
(14:08):
bring food and, and I did tellmyself that, you know, it's okay
to leave the dirty laundrysitting for a bit more if I felt
tired and really needed to rest, and so, in that sense, like I
was able to, you know, make surethat I focused on the things
that I needed to get done, butalso set aside time to make sure
(14:33):
that I was sleeping.
Well, when you know she wassleeping, and I also had, you
know, Jeremy with me for thefirst little bit, which was
really nice just getting to, youknow he's for the first little
bit, which was really nice justgetting to.
You know he's a first-time dadand so just giving him a bit of
that experience andresponsibility and learning how
to deal with a newborn wasreally nice to see.
(14:56):
And so, yeah, I think you knowyour energy levels and you know
not getting enough sleep orsomething that we touched on
earlier, but I think that'sgoing to be the case with any
age that you have a baby like.
They're just fairly high demand.
But you know, not somethingthat that is impossible.
And you know, now that I've gonethrough my first year with my
(15:20):
second daughter, like I can kindof look back and say, hey, it
actually like was not a bad time, even in those first few months
.
And, mind you, it was like shewas born in December and so we
had, you know, a couple monthsof winter where we really didn't
go anywhere, and so we justneeded to make sure that, you
know, mentally my mind was still, you know, engaged and and
(15:45):
there was something you knowpreoccupying me while I was
stuck indoors with her duringthose really cold months, and so
I decided that, you know, I wasdoing some volunteer work with
some non-for-profits before Ihad my baby and I decided that,
hey, even though I was steppingaway from work for a year, I
wanted to hang on to some ofthat non-for-profit engagement,
(16:10):
and so I did that, andthroughout January and the rest
of the months in the year that Iwas off, I still kept in really
good contact with the folks onthe non-for-profit, and so that
kept me, you know, engaged inadult conversations and it
wasn't just a hundred percentmommy time, which I think was
(16:30):
really important for me.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, wow, I, I, I think like this is talking to
you now.
It's like a difference, it's adifferent person altogether.
I, you're still the same, sarah, I know I, I remember in high
school, but it's like it's, it'slike a new, it's a new you.
You know what I mean, like thematurity level and just like the
comfort of just talking aboutlike different stages of
(16:56):
motherhood, which is, you know,sometimes I feel that we don't
talk about it enough as womenand I appreciate you sharing
that, because even with me too,I don't think people talk about
depression and how highfunctioning you can be without
realizing it, because I've beenthrough depression myself and I
(17:19):
lost a lot of weight and I don'tthink I realized I was dealing
with depression until I wasactually in this workshop and we
were talking about anxiety anddepression and not wanting to do
certain things.
But I mean, I still went to work, but I was depressed, I
wouldn't go to social functionsand I was like, wow, I was
(17:41):
depressed and I was ignoringcertain things with my health,
like you know what I mean too.
And so when you sit down andlike pay attention to your body
and everything that's happening,it's amazing how much we can do
when we're dealing with so manyemotions and like it's hard.
(18:02):
You know, like I'm pretty surepostpartum depression is a
little bit challenging too, andlike dealing with the changes of
your body and and wanting to doall the things but you can't.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Right, like you said, you wanted to do laundry but
like you had to be like, okay, Ican't do this right now, right,
yeah absolutely it, and yousaid it is hard, it's, it's not
easy to almost look at yourselfin the third person and be like,
hey, is there something that Ican be doing better to make my
(18:36):
life easier or make myselfhappier?
Sometimes, when you're in thatmoment, it's so easy to get
sucked in and, and you know, youstart to spiral and and you
know one poor behavior ordecision could lead to another
one, and so, yeah, so it takes,and it it sounds like you were
(19:00):
able to to do that yourself.
It takes a lot to, you know,almost pull yourself out of it,
which a lot of people you knowcannot do.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, I think I'm pretty resilient that way, but
it was.
It was quite some time.
I didn't realize how long itwas until I was in the hospital.
I'm like I'm what's happeningright now, but I mean, I don't
think the depression hadanything to do with that.
Depression may have preventedme from probably going to the
(19:32):
doctor sooner than I should have.
You know what I mean when youknow your body and certain
things, and so when you'reresigned, you're not yourself,
you're functioning.
I was Like I was going to workevery day when I had to go to
work, but there were certainthings that I wasn't motivated
to do, and so now that I thinkback, I know what to look for,
(19:56):
because it's one of those thingswhere, unless somebody else
tells you what it feels like tobe depressed, until you actually
like sit down and like thinkabout it, it's like, oh yeah,
when I don't want to get out ofbed, when I'm tired, when I
don't want to do socialinteractions, when I'm a social
(20:16):
person, but, like you said,getting out of it and, I guess,
asking for help, to like havingsomeone there like you said, you
had Jeremy there and havingthat person being like to push
you to be like okay, come on,sarah, like maybe go for a walk
today when you have that someoneyou know just checking in on
you.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That can help you get out of that rut too right 100%,
yeah, and so I, you know Ican't stress enough what you
know a great support system islike key to dealing with, you
know, any challenges that comewith motherhood, postpartum, but
(20:58):
just life in general.
Right and right.
And you know, now, having goneback to work for about four
months, you know it's it's stillstill new having to come home
and, you know, juggle two kidswho are at very different stages
in their lives and you know,oftentimes I am like exhausted
(21:20):
by the time the two kids are putto bed and sometimes, you know,
my work demands quite a bit andso I'll have to log on and
continue to work after they'resleeping.
And so, you know, just havingmaking sure that, like you can
find that right balance withpeople at home that can really
help you out in certain aspects,really helps to, you know, get
(21:45):
through some of those tough daysWow.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
So the one thing I we didn't discuss.
I mean, you are a mom and thenyou you're back to work now, so
tell me what you do.
Like I know you where you workbefore, but where do you work
now?
Like, what's your background interms of education?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah.
So I studied accounting inschool and, coming out of school
, I went to work for one of thebig four accounting firms for a
number of years and then, fromthere, I decided to join TD back
in 2011 in their financefunction, and I've actually been
(22:26):
there ever since.
I've moved around differentfinance roles in my 13 and a
half years there, but I've had areally great experience so far.
Great experience so far, andwhen I came back from mat leave
the second time around so veryrecent in January, I started a
(22:47):
new role in a different part ofthe finance group, and so that
was something that I hadrequested for.
When I was, you know, headingoff to have my baby, I was very
vocal to my leaders that Iwanted to do something different
.
When I came back, I had been inthe role that I was doing for
about two years or so, but I hadbeen in that group for about
(23:11):
five years, and so I reallywanted to try something
different, and I started havingconversations with my leaders,
getting reengaged with themabout four months before I
returned to work, to see whatthe landscape was like, what
(23:32):
would potential roles beavailable at the time that I
would return.
I was able to land something ina team that I was excited to be
on pretty much within like acouple of weeks of coming back
from that leave.
So I recognize that that's notalways the case, but I've had
(23:52):
really strong mentors andsponsors at the bank that have
really looked out for my careerand, you know, been able to give
me the opportunities that I washopeful about.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Diva tonight.
Glamour for your ears.
This is 40, a femaleperspective.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Wow, no, that's amazing, because I think when
you, when you come back from matleave, it's not you're, you're
in a new role, like I mean,that's amazing.
So obviously you did all thework before you left to take
care of your newborn, you know.
So where did you go touniversity?
I remember high school, like weboth went to Bloor, and then
(24:32):
where did you go after BloorCollegiate?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
yeah, so I spent about four and a half years at
the University of Waterloo, youknow, and for myself, I think
you know, in our friend group inuniversity, I was probably one
of very few individuals thatdecided to move away from
Toronto and do my university ina different city.
Yeah, that was very importantat the time because I don't know
(24:59):
if you remember, carleen, but Ihad pretty strict parents.
Yeah, yeah, you know, although,although we had our fair share
of house parties at my house, Iknow you're the only one.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I was like Sarah's house.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
We're going to Sarah's yeah, and I remember we
have pictures of that.
But they, you know, they theyreally wanted to keep us close.
And I have an older brother whoyou know well.
You know he decided to doschool in the city but I wanted
to make sure that I was gettingthe full university experience.
(25:35):
And so, you know, when we wereapplying for schools and you
know making decisions on wherewe wanted to go, One I knew that
I was going to go into the areaof accounting or finance, and
University of Waterloo had anexcellent program for that.
And you know I really wasn'tthat far away from home, but it
was far enough that I knew thatmy parents wouldn't show up
(25:57):
unannounced, wouldn't show upunannounced, and you know it
allowed me to build someindependence.
You know, make new friends.
But also, you know, I look backnow that we are 40, I look back
at how many friends I was ableto hang on to since, you know,
leaving high school right,They'll have a very, you know,
(26:19):
close, tight knit group of girlsthat I still speak to, as well
as my university friends.
And so you know I don't haveany regrets about leaving
Toronto to do my schoolingbecause it, you know it allowed
me to just expand my network andmeet new people yet at the same
(26:39):
time, you know, still hold onand cherish the great
friendships that I made when Iwas in high school.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
You know, when I hear you say that I had strict
parents too and I did want to goaway for school, but I didn't
apply to a university that wasfar away enough.
And if I had to do it all overagain I probably would.
Because, like you said, whenyou have really strict parents
you kind of want to get awayfrom that because, like your
brother's, the oldest and you'rethe baby.
(27:08):
So I think when you're theyounger child to your parents,
kind of coddle you in a way andit's like, oh, let me go.
You know what I mean.
It's just like, and I'm theoldest, and so when you're the
oldest, there's that pressure todo.
Well, like you know how we talkabout, we joke about our grades
in school.
I remember, like my mom, shewas just never happy with my
(27:29):
grades.
Sarah, I get the 85.
And then she's like, well, whycan't you get a 90?
Something like your friendthere, sarah, like you know what
I mean, and that kind of stuffwould frustrate me.
And so for me it just felt likethere was I could never get the
grade high enough and I'm justlike I I am not going to try
anymore to please my mom.
(27:49):
Like I'm doing this for me,like wherever school I go to,
whatever I decide, this is goingto be my decision.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Oh, yeah, definitely that immigrant.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
It is, it is, it totally is.
At least we can laugh about itnow.
But when we're home at like,studying for a test, I'm like, I
hope to.
You know, I hope I get a bettermark this time, but it just
made it so much harder.
Like you're always trying forthe best right, like and and
like we, we get all theseaccolades and everything.
But when, at the end of the day, like all those things we, we
(28:23):
did in high school, all thegrades we got, all the awards we
received, I mean that's justthe small stuff.
You know what I mean.
Like, life is more than justthat.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Right, when you think about all, our life
decisionsary education and, youknow, went away for school.
(29:02):
Do you have any other regrets,Carlina, Like I'm so curious to
know, and they could be bigregrets or small regrets.
Now, looking back in your life.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
You know what I kind of like to be quite honest.
I, like you, said, like whenyou think back when I was 39,
there was a part of me.
Like you know, your parentshave a big influence on the
decisions you make in terms ofwhere you go to school and, like
you know, my parents are always, like you know, they want you
to do this, like why don't yoube a lawyer?
You know, like these highachieving roles, and I didn't
(29:34):
want to be a lawyer, I went toschool.
So, in terms of my regrets, ifI were to back, I wish I had
listened to some people whothought I should be a teacher.
So I did not see that.
Clearly, sarah, I wanted to bein radio, like when I originally
was in high school and I wasthinking about my career and
(29:56):
where I was going to go.
I was thinking of journalismand I didn't get into the
journalism program at Ryersonvery competitive but I studied
English and then, after I took abreak from my BA at York, then
I went back to school for radioand I don't regret going to
school for radio.
I love the program.
I'm so happy I met the people Idid at Humber.
(30:19):
But I think, if I had to do itagain, I would have like looked
into the teaching portion aswell, because I did not
understand my, what I'm supposedto be doing in terms of, like,
my strengths and how I like tohelp people.
And so that's the thing withteachers.
And you know when, when my highschool teacher, ms Skolschlak um
(30:43):
, bless her heart If I ever seeher again, I'm like Ms
Skolschlak, you were right, youknow I I finally had that moment
of clarity where I was like I Inow see what she meant when she
said we need more teachers likeyou, because I did not see
myself as a teacher when I wentto go visit her, you know, and
yeah, in terms of that, likethat's probably one of the
(31:06):
things I regret, looking closelyat, because you know your
career, like I think I was morefocused on my career than
anything else, sarah, like Iwasn't focused on being a mom.
I felt like my, like like Itook I was a big sister and I
felt like I was a mom to them ina way, like I did a lot of work
, like with my siblings and thatkind of thing growing up.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
So, yeah, I 100% see you as a teacher.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you havesuch a great radio voice, don't
get me wrong.
Yeah, yeah, I also see thatside of you as like a strength,
where you can, you know, workreally well with with kids and
(31:50):
and relate to them.
And yeah, I, yeah, I hope thatthat could be something you know
at some point in your life thatmaybe you'll dabble in.
You know, course, here andthere may not have to be full
time, but but yeah, I would say,you know, never too late to do
anything, that that you reallyset your mind.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
No, you're right.
I think at this stage I feel,like you said, there's that that
second wave where we, we, wecan change, change career paths.
And I'm thinking of takingcourses, because I think what
happened was I was doing adminwork and then, when that didn't
work out the way I wanted it to,it kind of made me like regroup
, like it was hard at first.
(32:33):
Whenever you walk away fromsomething, it's hard, but what's
challenging, and what you saidis true I've done a lot of work
on myself, sarah, and I'm I'msure you have too, because
you've done, from what I see,like various things as well.
And, like you said, like I thinkif I'm going to be teaching, it
might be at a differentcapacity, but I am going to
consider like even taking somecourses and stuff because, like
(32:55):
you said, it's one of thosethings where there's there's
those who teach and those who doright and I my favorite place
was the library and I lovelearning.
I'm.
Someone said to me you're goingto be like learning forever and
I'm like I guess so you know.
So even even this, thisconversation we're having now,
you know this is 40, like theconversation is great and I
(33:18):
think the one thing I'm learningabout 40 is that there's so
many misconceptions about being40 and turning 40.
And I think what I want to askyou is what do you think is the
biggest misconception aboutwomen in their forties?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, I feel like you know a lot of women.
You know, naturally, like likewe're on a clock, you know when
we hit 40, it sounds like, hey,you, you're almost, you've
almost peaked, in that you knowcertain aspects of your life.
May, you know, the opportunitywindow might be smaller, but it
(33:58):
really.
I think the misconception isthat you know like, oh, life is
like on the downhill, but inreality I actually see it as
like it's continuing on theupward trajectory.
It's what you make of it, andso you know, personally, I feel
that right now, you know, mylove life and my relationship
(34:23):
with my partner and my kids andmy friends are probably at the
peak.
You know I'm very happy ofwhere I'm at with those things,
and when I was in my 30s I wasstill figuring it all out.
You know, I went through amarriage previously and I went
through a divorce and you know,and there were years in my 30s
(34:47):
that I just felt really lost andI didn't know, you know, what
there was in the future, thatyou know that it held for me.
But you know, having gonethrough a few of those tough
years and now, coming out of it,I was like, hey, like like a 40
is like a fresh start for me.
(35:08):
We can continue to do thethings that we want, like now
that I know things have settleda bit in terms of, you know,
personal goals and my career isat a point where, you know I'm
happy with it, then I can go anddo things that make life worth
living, like go travel and, youknow, pick up new hobbies, jump
(35:34):
back into sports that I, youknow, put off for a while, and
so so really to think that lifeis over at 40 is like a huge
misconception.
I don't even think that peopleshould think that when you know
we hit 50, right, and that's 10years from now.
(35:54):
But I think there's, there'ssuch a you know, life expectancy
now is a lot longer than itused to be, and you know we're
only if you really think, youknow women tend to live a little
longer.
Yeah, you know, let's say, youknow we live to like our late
80s, which means we're not evenhalfway through our life yet,
(36:19):
and so there's still a ton oftime to work on ourselves, to do
the things that make us happyand and you don't need to, you
know, live so rigidly to whattimeline we had originally set
for ourselves right.
Life throws curveballs at youand you know you'll reassess as
(36:43):
you go along and come up with atimeline that works for you.
And you know make sure that youset aside you know time to work
on the things and do the thingsthat make you happy, because
you know you blink and 10 yearsgoes by and you know again.
You just don't want to letthese years slip Because I
(37:05):
actually think that in our 40slike we can get a ton of things
done.
We are more mature, we've gonethrough some hardships and you
know we can do thingsdifferently and smarter and that
allows us to enjoy life more.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I think you couldn't have said it any better
than that girl.
I love that it's so.
It's like full circle.
It's kind of like you have beenthrough it all and I think the
one thing I want to say is thatyou, you went through a divorce
and you know I've watched TVshows on it and how hard it can
be, especially if that personwas, you were so close to them
(37:48):
and did you find, like, when youwere married the first time and
when you started to realizethat this is not going to be for
the rest of your life with thatperson, what was the hardest?
Like I mean, what was thehardest part?
Cause you said you felt likealone.
Like you know, there wereobviously struggles, right.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, I mean, you know I definitely a sense of
failure coming over yourself,right, like you question, hey,
could I have done somethingdifferent?
Like you know, was it me?
You start to question your own,you know past behaviors, your,
your self-worth, like whydoesn't this person, you know,
(38:27):
want to be with me?
And you know, and you continueto fight to the point where, you
know you, you are so exhaustedthat you come to realize, hey,
it's just not, it's not worthfighting for anymore.
But but you know it was a hugething for me, especially in the
Chinese culture that you know.
You just like, divorce is sucha huge stigma.
(38:51):
And within, you know my cousinsthat were all married.
You know I was the first in thefamily to get divorced and I
was just so worried about whatothers would perceive that as,
and when I finally came up withenough courage to tell everyone
(39:13):
I actually did it.
So all my friends and I hadtold my parents to have a
conversation with all my auntsand uncles, like the elders, and
you know long personal emailthat came from the heart to all
my closest friends and I reallywanted them to hear my side of
(39:50):
the story and, yeah, andoverwhelmingly, the support that
I got was like more than Icould have imagined.
You know, in my mind I was justthinking like, oh, what would
people think?
You know, like it was only youknow, a couple of years into
this marriage and it's alreadyfailed, like you know, would
(40:12):
these people stop talking to me?
Would they, you know, perceiveme in a different way?
But, yeah, it really brought tolight that I had amazing
friends, amazing family membersthat were so supportive, despite
you know all the things that,that, like, they loved my, my
husband at the time.
(40:33):
And so, you know, it was just,it was just hard to to lose that
connectivity with your family,but at the end of the day,
everyone was very understandingand so you know that part of me,
yes, it wasn't something that Iwould have ever hoped for, but
(40:53):
it it made me a stronger personand it really made me, you know,
vulnerable, but that I couldput trust into my close circle
of friends and family.
That, you know, despite havinggone through such a tough time,
I actually, you know, I didn'thave to go through it alone and
(41:13):
that was, you know, exactly whatI needed to come out of this as
just a more positive person.
And you know, and eventually,when I was ready, you know, get
back into the dating game, rightI had a very young daughter at
the time when we had gotten, youknow, officially divorced.
She was maybe about two yearsold, but we had separated for
(41:37):
over a year at that point intime.
And so I felt, like you know, Iwas still navigating single
motherhood, although she wouldsee her dad now and then, but
that I was.
I was, you know, bearing thelion's share of responsibility
with my daughter, and so, youknow, it took me a while
probably about three years to toreally feel comfortable dating
(42:02):
again.
But I knew that if I jumpedinto it too soon, that I
wouldn't be the best version ofmyself and it wouldn't be fair
to the person that I was dating.
So you and I have talked aboutit where timing is key right,
(42:22):
talked about it where you knowtiming is key Right, and and it
did take a bit of time on onlinedating platforms and apps to to
find Jeremy, and you know, andyou know, we've been together
now for four years, four and ahalf years, and you know, I
couldn't, couldn't be more happywith the way that life turned
out.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, I mean I saw it on Facebook and I was like what
, Sarah, not somebody that justgot married, what's going on,
what you know what.
I mean I was just like you knowwe live in that digital age.
I mean we're that generationthat kind of got the best of
both worlds, I think.
When I think about it, becauseyou know, you met Jeremy online,
(43:03):
right, and then your ex, didyou meet him at a social event?
Where did you meet him?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
am we actually we went through the same program at
school and university.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So yeah, not very different than than online
dating yeah, yeah and, and so Ithink it is hard to do online
dating.
You know what I mean.
I feel like sometimes when,like you said, when you're close
to the edge, where you're justlike you know what I, I can't do
this anymore, I don't want todo any more online dating like I
just like turn it off and then,and then it's just just I think
(43:33):
I've heard you say it, like wewere talking about the pre show,
where you were talking about itbriefly, but I had a girlfriend
too, where I think it was likeher last attempt and then
something finally happened andshe's married now too.
Like you know what I mean, andI think when you're ready, like
somehow everything just justhappens the way it should happen
(43:56):
.
Hearing you talk about yourdivorce and how you felt like a
sense of failure, I think that,as high achievers, sarah, like
when we, when we, when we're sodriven, like I just remember you
in school and you're a highachiever and I, you have that
work ethic and I think when Italk to you now, it's like
(44:18):
you're still that same person,that who was so driven to do
certain things and get it doneand try to do the best you can
for your family, like yourparents, and I think you did
your best.
You really did.
You know what I mean.
Like I think it's hard, likeyou said, when we, when we're
immigrants, like we have parentsthat came up to this country
(44:39):
and they have these expectationsof us, and when you're always
striving for the best and youfeel like you failed, like I
feel like you didn't fail.
Maybe the conversations in yourhead made you think that.
But I think even me, like I'm,sometimes I have that
conversation with myself too,where I feel like I fail because
(45:00):
society was like oh, you'resupposed to get married at this
age and you're supposed to havekids at this age, but I, I think
I was more focused on otherthings and I've never been like
conforming to what society wantsme to be or to do.
But I do get like you know,having that person in your life,
(45:21):
that's, that's your other half,you know what I mean that
person that you go home to, thatcause we're human beings, we're
not meant to be alone.
But I think when I hear youtalk about that sense of failure
, sometimes I say to myself I'mlike was I?
Did I do everything right?
Was I supposed to do you know,like when a relationship doesn't
(45:44):
last, like when I was datingTim, like he was the boyfriend
that I lived with the longestand dated the longest, and when
I think back to that too,sometimes I'm like did I miss an
opportunity by staying in thatrelationship too long?
You know?
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yeah, and I think, as , as women, we're always second
guessing ourselves, I thinkwe'll always do that.
I, you know we shouldn't, butyou know, the older we get, the
better we are at not doing that.
But it but yeah, sometimes ittakes a real big turning point
(46:21):
in your life to realize that,hey, maybe this wasn't all my
fault and and it's okay that itdidn't work out with the
timeline that I had in my head,because I 100% agree with you
that I envisioned the perfecttimeline in my head of life
(46:45):
milestones.
Right, I was set to get marriedat 28.
And I did.
So I checked that box and then,you know, we would travel the
world for a few years and thenwe would have kids by the time I
was 30.
So I like, check that box andthen, and then, you know, people
change and life happened and Inever had a box to check off for
(47:10):
, you know, divorce at 32.
But somehow, you know, I had tocheck off that one and yeah,
and so I had to grapple withveering off from my original
path and my original timeline,but I would say like it wasn't
permanent.
Permanent because I was able toget back onto, like a, I would
(47:35):
say, a modified version of thepath that I initially intended
for myself, right With, justlike you know, a few detours
along the way, but I managed tofind my way back onto it a
little later.
And, you know, and if thosethings didn't happen, like who
knows how life could have turnedout.
(47:56):
But I don't dwell and, you know, stay up in bed thinking about
it anymore, right, you know, andI think a lot of the times,
women are so so in our own mindsand our own heads about things
that are completely out of ourcontrol.
And we need to learn to not dothat, because I realize that
(48:20):
that it just gives me a lot moregray hair than um, than I would
, yeah, and so jeremy's alwayssaying that to me.
He's just like, like, stopstressing.
And I'm like, uh, I don't know,it's in my nature, right, it's
that high achiever.
You know, you always want to bein control of things, but at
the end of the day, like youknow, we can't stress out about
(48:41):
things that we can control.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, you know, I feel like when I talk to you I
feel like they say like I readthis from an article that 40 can
be one of the best times of awoman's life, both emotionally,
sexually and physically, andeven mentally, like just hearing
you talk, because I mean youchecked off the box and it just
didn't go the way we wanted itto.
(49:03):
But I feel like there's a pathin life and sometimes the path
leads to something even better.
And I think it took that onemarriage to make you realize
that this is not what I want andyou learn from that so that you
know what you do want.
And here you are now and youknow what the pictures are
beautiful.
I was like, oh, sarah, likethese trips that you went on you
(49:26):
guys have traveled together,like what was just amazing.
The one thing I love to see isthe trips that you've gone on
over the years, like you'vemanaged to do that with your
family.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
You know travel with young kids to remote places
because you know you can.
You just have to be, you know,willing to deal with a few
(50:00):
surprises along the way.
But you know we have had thebest memories going on trips
together as a family, as acouple, and I look forward to
many more of those well into myfifties and sixties.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
So I do have to say.
I want to ask you one thingwhat advice would you give to
women, or just to your 30 yearold self, who are approaching
this decade?
What would you say to you?
To yourself, yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah, I would.
I would say to my younger self,or to that younger generation,
is don't put so much pressure onyourself.
You know, I felt like, you know, even coming out of school I,
you know, had to jump into acareer right away.
(51:00):
You know, I never took a yearoff where I got to travel the
world.
You know, it was kind of likego, go, go.
And in being around a group offriends who are also doing
similar things, I didn't want tofeel like I was that black
sheep that was not on everyoneelse's timeline or that if I did
(51:24):
decide to do somethingdifferent then I would feel
behind everyone else.
So I kept putting a lot ofpressure on myself to, you know,
get certain things done in life.
And you know, now that I thinkabout it, like I would have
loved to take some time off and,you know, travel even by myself
(51:44):
, once school ended.
And you know, like the thingsthat you know, I feel like it's
going to be a little notimpossible, but a little tougher
to do now with, with a familythat I don't want to, you know,
leave them for long periods oftime.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
But you know, like would you do a weekend trip
though?
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Oh, I do it yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Like maybe when you're the when you're younger
daughter.
I don't know her name, but, umChloe, her name is Chloe.
I love that name.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Chloe, such a beautiful name but yeah, no,
I've taken like trips with likegirlfriends and you know, and
Jeremy and I have done you know,some time away from from the
girls.
But yeah, to really like take,you know some time and like
really travel by myself.
I would have really liked to dothat and that was something I
(52:36):
actually wanted to do.
I'd booked this trip to Egyptand Jordan that I was supposed
to take in August of 2020, butthen the pandemic had hit that
year and so, you know, plans gotall canceled and derailed and I
never I never went back to thattrip to, you know, rebook it
(52:58):
and do it on my own.
But I think, you know, one dayI will.
You know, right now it'sprobably just not the right time
for me to do that, but you know, maybe when, when I'm a little
bit older and I feel comfortable, you know, leaving some of the
responsibilities behind.
But, that being said, like, yeah, it's just don't put so much
pressure on yourself to have todo things the way that society
(53:22):
expects you or the timeline thatsociety expects you, because I
think, especially when it comesto, you know, career, like you
know, especially when it comesto, you know, career, like you
know, when we graduate, we haveabout, you know, 40 some odd
years of a career ahead of us.
So delaying it by a couplemonths or, you know, taking a
(53:43):
break from it for a year to gofocus on something else, like it
actually is not a big deal inthe grand scheme of a 45 year
career.
And so, you know, really take,take some time to evaluate your
goals in life and, you know, andmake sure that that you don't
(54:06):
forget to do some of thosethings for yourself.
And you know, and the easiestway to do that is don't put too
much pressure.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, I get you summed it up correctly.
It's true, though, like you said, too much pressure on yourself.
I think maybe you might've feltthis too, but I think when we
graduated from high school,there was something like cause
we were in the double cohort andI think there was this added
pressure that if you take anytime off from school, I felt
like if I they were saying likeif you take some time off, then
(54:38):
you won't want to finish yourdegree or you won't want to go
back to school.
Just get right in there and like, even when I finished my
undergrad, and people were likeoh, you know, and I went back to
school, how many years later,like three years later, I took a
break, like after my undergrad,because the job market was so
much harder than I thought itwould be.
Like after I graduated fromYork.
(54:59):
And like if you have goals inmind and you are driven, like
the time away isn't gonna takethat away, like if you're gonna
do something, you're gonna do it, and I think that's the one
thing that they don't pushenough.
You know what I mean.
I think, like you said, takinga little break is not the end of
the world.
It really isn't.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
yeah when you yeah, for us it was tough that that,
yeah, over a year, you knowyou're just, you're faced with
double the amount of competitionand, yeah, and you know it's
like fighting for the samenumber of spots, but with, you
know, extra people to get into agood university, a good program
(55:40):
, and and that continued, youknow, for the rest of our, our
education, which you know was,was one big factor that we had
to grapple with.
But but I hear you At the endof the day, like you know, like
we still could take a break, andit's okay, it's okay, it's okay
.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
At the end of the day .
You know I've learned so muchfrom you from this conversation.
It's amazing how you knowturning 40 and embracing both
the physical and emotionalchanges that this milestone
birthday has brought to us.
I feel like there's so muchmore life to live, there's so
much more to learn, and I justsee you traveling more, sarah,
(56:25):
like you're going to make ithappen.
I know you will, and I want tothank you for sharing like just
the struggles too.
You know what I mean.
It takes a lot to persevere andbe comfortable talking about
like uncomfortable things, youknow.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Well, thank you, carlene.
I had such a great time beingon the show with you and getting
to share.
You know my perspective andhopefully it resonates with
people.
Yeah, to me it's just, it'slike catching up with an old
friend.
Speaker 1 (56:59):
It is, it totally is, and that's exactly how it is,
you know?
Um, it's amazing.
I'm Carlene and this is DivaTonight with the lovely Sarah
Lau.
Thank you so much, sarah, foryour time.
It's been a pleasure talking toyou.
Thank you, you're welcome.
Speaker 3 (57:26):
Diva Tonight with Carlene will be back.
Send us a message on Instagramat diva underscore tonight.
Hi, I'm Carlene and this is Diva.
Tonight, a series on women intheir 40s.
Tonight, I have a colleague ofmine.
We've known each other for 20years and we went to high school
together and she is awesome andwe're both 40 now and her name
(00:25):
is Sarah Lau.
Sarah, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hi, carleen, I'm doing pretty awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Thanks for making the time to do this.
I mean, we really are recordingat night.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I feel like we need to because I got to put the kids
to sleep and then this is mommytime, where I get to catch up.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Right, yeah, I mean, I feel like this is not just an
episode, but more or less aconversation and also time to
reconnect and, like you know,just remember our like days in
high school, because you justturned 40.
Did you turn 41?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, no 41 is coming up late summer this year.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh, yeah, so we are.
Yeah, I just turned 41 thismonth, so it's just like I've
had a full year in my 40s andI'm like you know, but for you
let's, let's start from thebeginning.
So what did you do for your40th birthday?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah.
So in my mind I feel like I hadthis huge idea that it was
going to be a big turning pointin my life and then, as the week
started getting closer to it, Iactually started to come to
terms with it a bit and didn'treally want to make too big of a
(01:48):
deal of it.
We ended up on the day of mypartner and I.
We woke up really early.
We had sent the kids over to myparents' house and so we had
the night before to ourselves,and then we got up early and
played a round of golf and thenwe went out for a nice dinner.
(02:11):
And that was pretty much it, Ithink.
Leading up to the birthday wedid a few other outings.
We went camping, went to a fewbreweries, met up with some
friends and family members, andI'd say the festivities spanned
for the good portion of about aweek.
But on the day of it was justyou know, myself and Jeremy and
(02:34):
we just you know did our ownthing, and you know we were with
my kids on the day of mybirthday for a nice dinner.
That was it.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And now that you've had a few months, you know, in
this new journey I guess that'swhat they call it Like it's a
different stage of life because,you know, 40 is not just the
number, it's more like thechanges that happen in our body
is women, and I think that's whyI thought it would be a good
idea to do this series, becausethere's so many conversations
(03:06):
that are still hard to have whenyou turn 40.
Like it's all the healthconcerns and you know you're a
mom and so as a mom now, at thisstage in your life and you have
a very young one, like how oldis the baby?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
now.
Yeah, she just turned 16 monthslast week.
Yeah, 100% agree with you that.
You know things are a littledifferent now.
I had my older daughter when Iwas 30.
Oh, wow.
So there's a nine-year age gapbetween my two daughters.
(03:43):
A nine year age gap between mytwo daughters, and so you know I
, I was definitely a differentperson the first time around, a
lot more energetic, and you knowthings were, were tougher in
the sense that, like you know,it was my first time.
But you know, bouncing back andcertainly energy levels managing
a newborn were were, you know,substantially higher back then
(04:07):
than it is now.
But I think there's a bit of atrade off because I also, you
know, come with the experienceof being a second time mom and
so I looked at motherhood verydifferently and I ended up
taking a year off from work andI really was purposeful about
(04:31):
that year off.
So you know, the first fewmonths of dealing with the
newborn are tough.
But after that, you know, Iwanted to do a lot of things
within that year that were both,you know, for myself as well as
like physically improving, youknow, myself as well as you know
, making sure that my mentalhealth was in check.
(04:53):
So I would, you know, meet upwith friends.
I would work on my golf gameWow, you know things that I
wanted to do and I had a reallygreat support system at home.
So, you know, my mom would comeover and watched a little one
(05:14):
while I took a few hours off.
And, you know, I think that wasreally important because I knew
that, as a 40-year-old mother,you know things aren't going to
come as easy as they did when Iwas 30.
But, that being said, like Ididn't feel old and I think that
the important thing I think toyou know potential mothers, or
(05:34):
you know people who are thinkingabout having a baby later in
life.
It actually nowadays I feel likeit's not that big of a deal and
I certainly didn't feel thatthere was a ton of stigma behind
being a 40-year-old mom to anewborn, which I think is a
(05:56):
culture shift.
And the first time that I reallycame to terms with that was
when I found out that I waspregnant the second time around
and I went to go see my familydoctor and I let her know that,
hey, you know, did the homepregnancy test and, you know,
came out positive.
And I asked her and I said, youknow, is there anything
(06:19):
different or special that Ishould worry about?
Because I was thirty nine atthe time, yeah, and, and she's
like nah, all good, most of mypatients are around your age and
having their first kid.
So she never once used the termhigh-risk pregnancy with me,
(06:42):
and so that gave me a huge senseof comfort and kind of
validation that, hey, it's okaythat I'm a little bit older and
having a baby at this stage inmy life, because you know, as my
family doctor, she seemed tosee it a lot with her patients
as well.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
You know.
I'm glad you touched on thatbecause I think that's the one
thing that seems to be atouching point, like a point of
reference when you're in your30s, because you said you had
your first child and you're at30, right, and that's a really
good age to have a child, youknow, because you're still young
, you still have energy, likeyou said.
(07:21):
But I think there's a lot ofmisconceptions with 40.
And I think it really has to dowith your family history, how
you take care of yourself, likementally and physically, because
you just mentioned that a lotlike a lot of her patients other
than like, besides, you arehaving kids later on in life too
(07:43):
, and that you can do it.
It's just that I guess the oneissue is is like you're not
going to have the same energylike you did 10 years ago, maybe
a little bit different in termsof raising a child, right, but
I think that's that's great,that you had a good pregnancy
and there wasn't a lot of likeissues along the way, right.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, and we know the science behind it is that the
older you are, the there is ahigher level of risk for that
being said, like I wouldn't wantothers to think that, or or
have that fear and, you know,prevent them from going down
that journey if that's alwaysbeen something that they wanted
(08:30):
to fulfill in their lives,despite, you know, just turning
a certain age like 40.
Don't, don't let that preventyou from doing anything in life.
That prevent you from doinganything in life, because that,
in my mind, we're still the samehigh school girls that we were,
(08:52):
you know, 25 years ago.
We might look a tiny bitdifferent, but you know there,
are you still competing with mein class now?
absolutely, carlene.
I think it was what likeenglish and geography yes, you
remember, oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I still talk about it now.
Sometimes when I reference I'mlike you know me and this girl,
sarah, like we would compete,like even though I know I'm not
gonna beat her in certainsubjects she'd be like I
remember you'd be like carlene,what'd you get?
I'm like I know you beat me,but I got 85, what'd you get?
And then you're like I don'tknow if it was like a 90, some
like it was high, high nineties,right.
(09:29):
And I'm like Sarah, why are weeven?
The only thing I think I beatyou in and we didn't even take
that class together is gym.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I one year I had a hundred percent in gym class and
I was like and you're tallerthan me, so for sure you would
have beat me in gym, because youcan spike the ball much better
than I can in volleyball.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, that's so funny Because, you know, in high
school I wasn't that good atvolleyball but I got better with
time.
Like you know, I'm not like apro or anything, but I started
playing beach volleyball fiveyears ago and it was so much
harder then than it is now.
But I love that we canreminisce about our time in high
(10:13):
school, you know, because itwas we had.
We had a good group and youknow what's really nice is when
we message Miss Vasevilla andlike she'll respond to like the
group chat about something.
I don't know if you've seenwhat I've posted.
I posted a photo on my page andshe responded to it.
I posted a photo of us from Ithink it was the athletic
(10:36):
banquet and it's a very fuzzyphoto, but I managed to take one
.
And then someone was like wheredid you get this?
I'm like it's in my vault.
I have a lot of pictures.
I loved taking pictures when Iwas in high school.
My sister was like you'realways had a Kodak camera, like
you know, so I don't know if yousaw it.
Yeah, Sarah, you gotta go on myFacebook and see.
(10:58):
I post it like it's me you.
Um, what's her name?
Mylon Yim.
There's a whole bunch of us inthe photo.
Oh my god I'm gonna go check itfor sure, you know it'll bring
you back.
You know what I mean.
It's one of those things wherewe definitely worked hard and,
(11:19):
like you know, the saying goes,we played hard too, you know
it's funny you say that like youknow, back then, like something
like volleyball was was tough,and now, with experience and
practice, it's gotten easier.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
For you, right, and even in our older age, right?
Um, certain things get easierand certain things get harder.
I think that's just just theway of life.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
I don't know how I'll be on the court right now,
because beach volleyball isdifferent in terms of court,
like court, like what do I sayabout that?
There's just a differenttechnique involved.
But yeah, I think in terms ofskillset, you know what I mean.
Like you said certain thingswith age, just like it's with
anything like you just have topractice more at it, just like
(12:09):
you know you're, you're a momand you have two kids now and
I'm sure you've had twodifferent experiences raising
your first child and your secondchild right, yeah, and I don't
think I can say that like onewas better than the other, like
they were just very different.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
But I would say that, you know, with the added
experience that I have thesecond go around, the second
time I think I was betterprepared and that made me just a
happier person overall when Iwas going through postpartum.
Oh, okay, yeah, and you know,my second daughter is actually
(12:53):
very low maintenance and she,you know, things came a little
bit easier the feeding, thesleeping, the sleeping and so I
think in that sense it helped toallow me to focus on things for
myself and and really allow methe time to step away from, like
(13:15):
, constant motherhood and thengo and, you know, do things that
that made me happy in the yearthat I was off.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
So, getting back to what you just spoke about, I
think a lot of people don'treally talk about postpartum and
how hard it is.
So if you could for me I'm nota mom and I am.
I haven't had that experience.
So can you tell me or just toanyone who's listening what that
(13:45):
was like, what was the hardpart about it?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, certainly.
I would say.
You know, this time therecovery process was probably a
bit better for me in that, youknow, I was able to get back on
my feet and, you know, deal withsome of the aftermath pain a
lot better.
I did have my parents close byand they were able to, you know,
(14:08):
bring food and, and I did tellmyself that, you know, it's okay
to leave the dirty laundrysitting for a bit more if I felt
tired and really needed to rest, and so, in that sense, like I
was able to, you know, make surethat I focused on the things
that I needed to get done, butalso set aside time to make sure
(14:33):
that I was sleeping.
Well, when you know she wassleeping, and I also had, you
know, Jeremy with me for thefirst little bit, which was
really nice just getting to, youknow he's for the first little
bit, which was really nice justgetting to.
You know he's a first-time dadand so just giving him a bit of
that experience andresponsibility and learning how
to deal with a newborn wasreally nice to see.
(14:56):
And so, yeah, I think you knowyour energy levels and you know
not getting enough sleep orsomething that we touched on
earlier, but I think that'sgoing to be the case with any
age that you have a baby like.
They're just fairly high demand.
But you know, not somethingthat that is impossible.
And you know, now that I've gonethrough my first year with my
(15:20):
second daughter, like I can kindof look back and say, hey, it
actually like was not a bad time, even in those first few months
.
And, mind you, it was like shewas born in December and so we
had, you know, a couple monthsof winter where we really didn't
go anywhere, and so we justneeded to make sure that, you
know, mentally my mind was still, you know, engaged and and
(15:45):
there was something you knowpreoccupying me while I was
stuck indoors with her duringthose really cold months, and so
I decided that, you know, I wasdoing some volunteer work with
some non-for-profits before Ihad my baby and I decided that,
hey, even though I was steppingaway from work for a year, I
wanted to hang on to some ofthat non-for-profit engagement,
(16:10):
and so I did that, andthroughout January and the rest
of the months in the year that Iwas off, I still kept in really
good contact with the folks onthe non-for-profit, and so that
kept me, you know, engaged inadult conversations and it
wasn't just a hundred percentmommy time, which I think was
(16:30):
really important for me.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, wow, I, I, I think like this is talking to
you now.
It's like a difference, it's adifferent person altogether.
I, you're still the same, sarah, I know I, I remember in high
school, but it's like it's, it'slike a new, it's a new you.
You know what I mean, like thematurity level and just like the
comfort of just talking aboutlike different stages of
(16:56):
motherhood, which is, you know,sometimes I feel that we don't
talk about it enough as womenand I appreciate you sharing
that, because even with me too,I don't think people talk about
depression and how highfunctioning you can be without
realizing it, because I've beenthrough depression myself and I
(17:19):
lost a lot of weight and I don'tthink I realized I was dealing
with depression until I wasactually in this workshop and we
were talking about anxiety anddepression and not wanting to do
certain things.
But I mean, I still went to work, but I was depressed, I
wouldn't go to social functionsand I was like, wow, I was
(17:41):
depressed and I was ignoringcertain things with my health,
like you know what I mean too.
And so when you sit down andlike pay attention to your body
and everything that's happening,it's amazing how much we can do
when we're dealing with so manyemotions and like it's hard.
(18:02):
You know, like I'm pretty surepostpartum depression is a
little bit challenging too, andlike dealing with the changes of
your body and and wanting to doall the things but you can't.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Right, like you said, you wanted to do laundry but
like you had to be like, okay, Ican't do this right now, right,
yeah absolutely it, and yousaid it is hard, it's, it's not
easy to almost look at yourselfin the third person and be like,
hey, is there something that Ican be doing better to make my
(18:36):
life easier or make myselfhappier?
Sometimes, when you're in thatmoment, it's so easy to get
sucked in and, and you know, youstart to spiral and and you
know one poor behavior ordecision could lead to another
one, and so, yeah, so it takes,and it it sounds like you were
(19:00):
able to to do that yourself.
It takes a lot to, you know,almost pull yourself out of it,
which a lot of people you knowcannot do.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, I think I'm pretty resilient that way, but
it was.
It was quite some time.
I didn't realize how long itwas until I was in the hospital.
I'm like I'm what's happeningright now, but I mean, I don't
think the depression hadanything to do with that.
Depression may have preventedme from probably going to the
(19:32):
doctor sooner than I should have.
You know what I mean when youknow your body and certain
things, and so when you'reresigned, you're not yourself,
you're functioning.
I was Like I was going to workevery day when I had to go to
work, but there were certainthings that I wasn't motivated
to do, and so now that I thinkback, I know what to look for,
(19:56):
because it's one of those thingswhere, unless somebody else
tells you what it feels like tobe depressed, until you actually
like sit down and like thinkabout it, it's like, oh yeah,
when I don't want to get out ofbed, when I'm tired, when I
don't want to do socialinteractions, when I'm a social
(20:16):
person, but, like you said,getting out of it and, I guess,
asking for help, to like havingsomeone there like you said, you
had Jeremy there and havingthat person being like to push
you to be like okay, come on,sarah, like maybe go for a walk
today when you have that someoneyou know just checking in on
you.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That can help you get out of that rut too right 100%,
yeah, and so I, you know Ican't stress enough what you
know a great support system islike key to dealing with, you
know, any challenges that comewith motherhood, postpartum, but
(20:58):
just life in general.
Right and right.
And you know, now, having goneback to work for about four
months, you know it's it's stillstill new having to come home
and, you know, juggle two kidswho are at very different stages
in their lives and you know,oftentimes I am like exhausted
(21:20):
by the time the two kids are putto bed and sometimes, you know,
my work demands quite a bit andso I'll have to log on and
continue to work after they'resleeping.
And so, you know, just havingmaking sure that, like you can
find that right balance withpeople at home that can really
help you out in certain aspects,really helps to, you know, get
(21:45):
through some of those tough daysWow.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
So the one thing I we didn't discuss.
I mean, you are a mom and thenyou you're back to work now, so
tell me what you do.
Like I know you where you workbefore, but where do you work
now?
Like, what's your background interms of education?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah.
So I studied accounting inschool and, coming out of school
, I went to work for one of thebig four accounting firms for a
number of years and then, fromthere, I decided to join TD back
in 2011 in their financefunction, and I've actually been
(22:26):
there ever since.
I've moved around differentfinance roles in my 13 and a
half years there, but I've had areally great experience so far.
Great experience so far, andwhen I came back from mat leave
the second time around so veryrecent in January, I started a
(22:47):
new role in a different part ofthe finance group, and so that
was something that I hadrequested for.
When I was, you know, headingoff to have my baby, I was very
vocal to my leaders that Iwanted to do something different
.
When I came back, I had been inthe role that I was doing for
about two years or so, but I hadbeen in that group for about
(23:11):
five years, and so I reallywanted to try something
different, and I started havingconversations with my leaders,
getting reengaged with themabout four months before I
returned to work, to see whatthe landscape was like, what
(23:32):
would potential roles beavailable at the time that I
would return.
I was able to land something ina team that I was excited to be
on pretty much within like acouple of weeks of coming back
from that leave.
So I recognize that that's notalways the case, but I've had
(23:52):
really strong mentors andsponsors at the bank that have
really looked out for my careerand, you know, been able to give
me the opportunities that I washopeful about.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Diva tonight.
Glamour for your ears.
This is 40, a femaleperspective.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Wow, no, that's amazing, because I think when
you, when you come back from matleave, it's not you're, you're
in a new role, like I mean,that's amazing.
So obviously you did all thework before you left to take
care of your newborn, you know.
So where did you go touniversity?
I remember high school, like weboth went to Bloor, and then
(24:32):
where did you go after BloorCollegiate?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
yeah, so I spent about four and a half years at
the University of Waterloo, youknow, and for myself, I think
you know, in our friend group inuniversity, I was probably one
of very few individuals thatdecided to move away from
Toronto and do my university ina different city.
Yeah, that was very importantat the time because I don't know
(24:59):
if you remember, carleen, but Ihad pretty strict parents.
Yeah, yeah, you know, although,although we had our fair share
of house parties at my house, Iknow you're the only one.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I was like Sarah's house.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
We're going to Sarah's yeah, and I remember we
have pictures of that.
But they, you know, they theyreally wanted to keep us close.
And I have an older brother whoyou know well.
You know he decided to doschool in the city but I wanted
to make sure that I was gettingthe full university experience.
(25:35):
And so, you know, when we wereapplying for schools and you
know making decisions on wherewe wanted to go, One I knew that
I was going to go into the areaof accounting or finance, and
University of Waterloo had anexcellent program for that.
And you know I really wasn'tthat far away from home, but it
was far enough that I knew thatmy parents wouldn't show up
(25:57):
unannounced, wouldn't show upunannounced, and you know it
allowed me to build someindependence.
You know, make new friends.
But also, you know, I look backnow that we are 40, I look back
at how many friends I was ableto hang on to since, you know,
leaving high school right,They'll have a very, you know,
(26:19):
close, tight knit group of girlsthat I still speak to, as well
as my university friends.
And so you know I don't haveany regrets about leaving
Toronto to do my schoolingbecause it, you know it allowed
me to just expand my network andmeet new people yet at the same
(26:39):
time, you know, still hold onand cherish the great
friendships that I made when Iwas in high school.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
You know, when I hear you say that I had strict
parents too and I did want to goaway for school, but I didn't
apply to a university that wasfar away enough.
And if I had to do it all overagain I probably would.
Because, like you said, whenyou have really strict parents
you kind of want to get awayfrom that because, like your
brother's, the oldest and you'rethe baby.
(27:08):
So I think when you're theyounger child to your parents,
kind of coddle you in a way andit's like, oh, let me go.
You know what I mean.
It's just like, and I'm theoldest, and so when you're the
oldest, there's that pressure todo.
Well, like you know how we talkabout, we joke about our grades
in school.
I remember, like my mom, shewas just never happy with my
(27:29):
grades.
Sarah, I get the 85.
And then she's like, well, whycan't you get a 90?
Something like your friendthere, sarah, like you know what
I mean, and that kind of stuffwould frustrate me.
And so for me it just felt likethere was I could never get the
grade high enough and I'm justlike I I am not going to try
anymore to please my mom.
(27:49):
Like I'm doing this for me,like wherever school I go to,
whatever I decide, this is goingto be my decision.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Oh, yeah, definitely that immigrant.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
It is, it is, it totally is.
At least we can laugh about itnow.
But when we're home at like,studying for a test, I'm like, I
hope to.
You know, I hope I get a bettermark this time, but it just
made it so much harder.
Like you're always trying forthe best right, like and and
like we, we get all theseaccolades and everything.
But when, at the end of the day, like all those things we, we
(28:23):
did in high school, all thegrades we got, all the awards we
received, I mean that's justthe small stuff.
You know what I mean.
Like, life is more than justthat.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Right, when you think about all, our life
decisionsary education and, youknow, went away for school.
(29:02):
Do you have any other regrets,Carlina, Like I'm so curious to
know, and they could be bigregrets or small regrets.
Now, looking back in your life.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
You know what I kind of like to be quite honest.
I, like you, said, like whenyou think back when I was 39,
there was a part of me.
Like you know, your parentshave a big influence on the
decisions you make in terms ofwhere you go to school and, like
you know, my parents are always, like you know, they want you
to do this, like why don't yoube a lawyer?
You know, like these highachieving roles, and I didn't
(29:34):
want to be a lawyer, I went toschool.
So, in terms of my regrets, ifI were to back, I wish I had
listened to some people whothought I should be a teacher.
So I did not see that.
Clearly, sarah, I wanted to bein radio, like when I originally
was in high school and I wasthinking about my career and
(29:56):
where I was going to go.
I was thinking of journalismand I didn't get into the
journalism program at Ryersonvery competitive but I studied
English and then, after I took abreak from my BA at York, then
I went back to school for radioand I don't regret going to
school for radio.
I love the program.
I'm so happy I met the people Idid at Humber.
(30:19):
But I think, if I had to do itagain, I would have like looked
into the teaching portion aswell, because I did not
understand my, what I'm supposedto be doing in terms of, like,
my strengths and how I like tohelp people.
And so that's the thing withteachers.
And you know when, when my highschool teacher, ms Skolschlak um
(30:43):
, bless her heart If I ever seeher again, I'm like Ms
Skolschlak, you were right, youknow I I finally had that moment
of clarity where I was like I Inow see what she meant when she
said we need more teachers likeyou, because I did not see
myself as a teacher when I wentto go visit her, you know, and
yeah, in terms of that, likethat's probably one of the
(31:06):
things I regret, looking closelyat, because you know your
career, like I think I was morefocused on my career than
anything else, sarah, like Iwasn't focused on being a mom.
I felt like my, like like Itook I was a big sister and I
felt like I was a mom to them ina way, like I did a lot of work
, like with my siblings and thatkind of thing growing up.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
So, yeah, I 100% see you as a teacher.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you havesuch a great radio voice, don't
get me wrong.
Yeah, yeah, I also see thatside of you as like a strength,
where you can, you know, workreally well with with kids and
(31:50):
and relate to them.
And yeah, I, yeah, I hope thatthat could be something you know
at some point in your life thatmaybe you'll dabble in.
You know, course, here andthere may not have to be full
time, but but yeah, I would say,you know, never too late to do
anything, that that you reallyset your mind.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
No, you're right.
I think at this stage I feel,like you said, there's that that
second wave where we, we, wecan change, change career paths.
And I'm thinking of takingcourses, because I think what
happened was I was doing adminwork and then, when that didn't
work out the way I wanted it to,it kind of made me like regroup
, like it was hard at first.
(32:33):
Whenever you walk away fromsomething, it's hard, but what's
challenging, and what you saidis true I've done a lot of work
on myself, sarah, and I'm I'msure you have too, because
you've done, from what I see,like various things as well.
And, like you said, like I thinkif I'm going to be teaching, it
might be at a differentcapacity, but I am going to
consider like even taking somecourses and stuff because, like
(32:55):
you said, it's one of thosethings where there's there's
those who teach and those who doright and I my favorite place
was the library and I lovelearning.
I'm.
Someone said to me you're goingto be like learning forever and
I'm like I guess so you know.
So even even this, thisconversation we're having now,
you know this is 40, like theconversation is great and I
(33:18):
think the one thing I'm learningabout 40 is that there's so
many misconceptions about being40 and turning 40.
And I think what I want to askyou is what do you think is the
biggest misconception aboutwomen in their forties?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, I feel like you know a lot of women.
You know, naturally, like likewe're on a clock, you know when
we hit 40, it sounds like, hey,you, you're almost, you've
almost peaked, in that you knowcertain aspects of your life.
May, you know, the opportunitywindow might be smaller, but it
(33:58):
really.
I think the misconception isthat you know like, oh, life is
like on the downhill, but inreality I actually see it as
like it's continuing on theupward trajectory.
It's what you make of it, andso you know, personally, I feel
that right now, you know, mylove life and my relationship
(34:23):
with my partner and my kids andmy friends are probably at the
peak.
You know I'm very happy ofwhere I'm at with those things,
and when I was in my 30s I wasstill figuring it all out.
You know, I went through amarriage previously and I went
through a divorce and you know,and there were years in my 30s
(34:47):
that I just felt really lost andI didn't know, you know, what
there was in the future, thatyou know that it held for me.
But you know, having gonethrough a few of those tough
years and now, coming out of it,I was like, hey, like like a 40
is like a fresh start for me.
(35:08):
We can continue to do thethings that we want, like now
that I know things have settleda bit in terms of, you know,
personal goals and my career isat a point where, you know I'm
happy with it, then I can go anddo things that make life worth
living, like go travel and, youknow, pick up new hobbies, jump
(35:34):
back into sports that I, youknow, put off for a while, and
so so really to think that lifeis over at 40 is like a huge
misconception.
I don't even think that peopleshould think that when you know
we hit 50, right, and that's 10years from now.
(35:54):
But I think there's, there'ssuch a you know, life expectancy
now is a lot longer than itused to be, and you know we're
only if you really think, youknow women tend to live a little
longer.
Yeah, you know, let's say, youknow we live to like our late
80s, which means we're not evenhalfway through our life yet,
(36:19):
and so there's still a ton oftime to work on ourselves, to do
the things that make us happyand and you don't need to, you
know, live so rigidly to whattimeline we had originally set
for ourselves right.
Life throws curveballs at youand you know you'll reassess as
(36:43):
you go along and come up with atimeline that works for you.
And you know make sure that youset aside you know time to work
on the things and do the thingsthat make you happy, because
you know you blink and 10 yearsgoes by and you know again.
You just don't want to letthese years slip Because I
(37:05):
actually think that in our 40slike we can get a ton of things
done.
We are more mature, we've gonethrough some hardships and you
know we can do thingsdifferently and smarter and that
allows us to enjoy life more.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I think you couldn't have said it any better
than that girl.
I love that it's so.
It's like full circle.
It's kind of like you have beenthrough it all and I think the
one thing I want to say is thatyou, you went through a divorce
and you know I've watched TVshows on it and how hard it can
be, especially if that personwas, you were so close to them
(37:48):
and did you find, like, when youwere married the first time and
when you started to realizethat this is not going to be for
the rest of your life with thatperson, what was the hardest?
Like I mean, what was thehardest part?
Cause you said you felt likealone.
Like you know, there wereobviously struggles, right.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, I mean, you know I definitely a sense of
failure coming over yourself,right, like you question, hey,
could I have done somethingdifferent?
Like you know, was it me?
You start to question your own,you know past behaviors, your,
your self-worth, like whydoesn't this person, you know,
(38:27):
want to be with me?
And you know, and you continueto fight to the point where, you
know you, you are so exhaustedthat you come to realize, hey,
it's just not, it's not worthfighting for anymore.
But but you know it was a hugething for me, especially in the
Chinese culture that you know.
You just like, divorce is sucha huge stigma.
(38:51):
And within, you know my cousinsthat were all married.
You know I was the first in thefamily to get divorced and I
was just so worried about whatothers would perceive that as,
and when I finally came up withenough courage to tell everyone
(39:13):
I actually did it.
So all my friends and I hadtold my parents to have a
conversation with all my auntsand uncles, like the elders, and
you know long personal emailthat came from the heart to all
my closest friends and I reallywanted them to hear my side of
(39:50):
the story and, yeah, andoverwhelmingly, the support that
I got was like more than Icould have imagined.
You know, in my mind I was justthinking like, oh, what would
people think?
You know, like it was only youknow, a couple of years into
this marriage and it's alreadyfailed, like you know, would
(40:12):
these people stop talking to me?
Would they, you know, perceiveme in a different way?
But, yeah, it really brought tolight that I had amazing
friends, amazing family membersthat were so supportive, despite
you know all the things that,that, like, they loved my, my
husband at the time.
(40:33):
And so, you know, it was just,it was just hard to to lose that
connectivity with your family,but at the end of the day,
everyone was very understandingand so you know that part of me,
yes, it wasn't something that Iwould have ever hoped for, but
(40:53):
it it made me a stronger personand it really made me, you know,
vulnerable, but that I couldput trust into my close circle
of friends and family.
That, you know, despite havinggone through such a tough time,
I actually, you know, I didn'thave to go through it alone and
(41:13):
that was, you know, exactly whatI needed to come out of this as
just a more positive person.
And you know, and eventually,when I was ready, you know, get
back into the dating game, rightI had a very young daughter at
the time when we had gotten, youknow, officially divorced.
She was maybe about two yearsold, but we had separated for
(41:37):
over a year at that point intime.
And so I felt, like you know, Iwas still navigating single
motherhood, although she wouldsee her dad now and then, but
that I was.
I was, you know, bearing thelion's share of responsibility
with my daughter, and so, youknow, it took me a while
probably about three years to toreally feel comfortable dating
(42:02):
again.
But I knew that if I jumpedinto it too soon, that I
wouldn't be the best version ofmyself and it wouldn't be fair
to the person that I was dating.
So you and I have talked aboutit where timing is key right,
(42:22):
talked about it where you knowtiming is key Right, and and it
did take a bit of time on onlinedating platforms and apps to to
find Jeremy, and you know, andyou know, we've been together
now for four years, four and ahalf years, and you know, I
couldn't, couldn't be more happywith the way that life turned
out.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, I mean I saw it on Facebook and I was like what
, Sarah, not somebody that justgot married, what's going on,
what you know what.
I mean I was just like you knowwe live in that digital age.
I mean we're that generationthat kind of got the best of
both worlds, I think.
When I think about it, becauseyou know, you met Jeremy online,
(43:03):
right, and then your ex, didyou meet him at a social event?
Where did you meet him?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
am we actually we went through the same program at
school and university.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So yeah, not very different than than online
dating yeah, yeah and, and so Ithink it is hard to do online
dating.
You know what I mean.
I feel like sometimes when,like you said, when you're close
to the edge, where you're justlike you know what I, I can't do
this anymore, I don't want todo any more online dating like I
just like turn it off and then,and then it's just just I think
(43:33):
I've heard you say it, like wewere talking about the pre show,
where you were talking about itbriefly, but I had a girlfriend
too, where I think it was likeher last attempt and then
something finally happened andshe's married now too.
Like you know what I mean, andI think when you're ready, like
somehow everything just justhappens the way it should happen
(43:56):
.
Hearing you talk about yourdivorce and how you felt like a
sense of failure, I think that,as high achievers, sarah, like
when we, when we, when we're sodriven, like I just remember you
in school and you're a highachiever and I, you have that
work ethic and I think when Italk to you now, it's like
(44:18):
you're still that same person,that who was so driven to do
certain things and get it doneand try to do the best you can
for your family, like yourparents, and I think you did
your best.
You really did.
You know what I mean.
Like I think it's hard, likeyou said, when we, when we're
immigrants, like we have parentsthat came up to this country
(44:39):
and they have these expectationsof us, and when you're always
striving for the best and youfeel like you failed, like I
feel like you didn't fail.
Maybe the conversations in yourhead made you think that.
But I think even me, like I'm,sometimes I have that
conversation with myself too,where I feel like I fail because
(45:00):
society was like oh, you'resupposed to get married at this
age and you're supposed to havekids at this age, but I, I think
I was more focused on otherthings and I've never been like
conforming to what society wantsme to be or to do.
But I do get like you know,having that person in your life,
(45:21):
that's, that's your other half,you know what I mean that
person that you go home to, thatcause we're human beings, we're
not meant to be alone.
But I think when I hear youtalk about that sense of failure
, sometimes I say to myself I'mlike was I?
Did I do everything right?
Was I supposed to do you know,like when a relationship doesn't
(45:44):
last, like when I was datingTim, like he was the boyfriend
that I lived with the longestand dated the longest, and when
I think back to that too,sometimes I'm like did I miss an
opportunity by staying in thatrelationship too long?
You know?
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yeah, and I think, as , as women, we're always second
guessing ourselves, I thinkwe'll always do that.
I, you know we shouldn't, butyou know, the older we get, the
better we are at not doing that.
But it but yeah, sometimes ittakes a real big turning point
(46:21):
in your life to realize that,hey, maybe this wasn't all my
fault and and it's okay that itdidn't work out with the
timeline that I had in my head,because I 100% agree with you
that I envisioned the perfecttimeline in my head of life
(46:45):
milestones.
Right, I was set to get marriedat 28.
And I did.
So I checked that box and then,you know, we would travel the
world for a few years and thenwe would have kids by the time I
was 30.
So I like, check that box andthen, and then, you know, people
change and life happened and Inever had a box to check off for
(47:10):
, you know, divorce at 32.
But somehow, you know, I had tocheck off that one and yeah,
and so I had to grapple withveering off from my original
path and my original timeline,but I would say like it wasn't
permanent.
Permanent because I was able toget back onto, like a, I would
(47:35):
say, a modified version of thepath that I initially intended
for myself, right With, justlike you know, a few detours
along the way, but I managed tofind my way back onto it a
little later.
And, you know, and if thosethings didn't happen, like who
knows how life could have turnedout.
(47:56):
But I don't dwell and, you know, stay up in bed thinking about
it anymore, right, you know, andI think a lot of the times,
women are so so in our own mindsand our own heads about things
that are completely out of ourcontrol.
And we need to learn to not dothat, because I realize that
(48:20):
that it just gives me a lot moregray hair than um, than I would
, yeah, and so jeremy's alwayssaying that to me.
He's just like, like, stopstressing.
And I'm like, uh, I don't know,it's in my nature, right, it's
that high achiever.
You know, you always want to bein control of things, but at
the end of the day, like youknow, we can't stress out about
(48:41):
things that we can control.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, you know, I feel like when I talk to you I
feel like they say like I readthis from an article that 40 can
be one of the best times of awoman's life, both emotionally,
sexually and physically, andeven mentally, like just hearing
you talk, because I mean youchecked off the box and it just
didn't go the way we wanted itto.
(49:03):
But I feel like there's a pathin life and sometimes the path
leads to something even better.
And I think it took that onemarriage to make you realize
that this is not what I want andyou learn from that so that you
know what you do want.
And here you are now and youknow what the pictures are
beautiful.
I was like, oh, sarah, likethese trips that you went on you
(49:26):
guys have traveled together,like what was just amazing.
The one thing I love to see isthe trips that you've gone on
over the years, like you'vemanaged to do that with your
family.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
You know travel with young kids to remote places
because you know you can.
You just have to be, you know,willing to deal with a few
(50:00):
surprises along the way.
But you know we have had thebest memories going on trips
together as a family, as acouple, and I look forward to
many more of those well into myfifties and sixties.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
So I do have to say.
I want to ask you one thingwhat advice would you give to
women, or just to your 30 yearold self, who are approaching
this decade?
What would you say to you?
To yourself, yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah, I would.
I would say to my younger self,or to that younger generation,
is don't put so much pressure onyourself.
You know, I felt like, you know, even coming out of school I,
you know, had to jump into acareer right away.
(51:00):
You know, I never took a yearoff where I got to travel the
world.
You know, it was kind of likego, go, go.
And in being around a group offriends who are also doing
similar things, I didn't want tofeel like I was that black
sheep that was not on everyoneelse's timeline or that if I did
(51:24):
decide to do somethingdifferent then I would feel
behind everyone else.
So I kept putting a lot ofpressure on myself to, you know,
get certain things done in life.
And you know, now that I thinkabout it, like I would have
loved to take some time off and,you know, travel even by myself
(51:44):
, once school ended.
And you know, like the thingsthat you know, I feel like it's
going to be a little notimpossible, but a little tougher
to do now with, with a familythat I don't want to, you know,
leave them for long periods oftime.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
But you know, like would you do a weekend trip
though?
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Oh, I do it yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Like maybe when you're the when you're younger
daughter.
I don't know her name, but, umChloe, her name is Chloe.
I love that name.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Chloe, such a beautiful name but yeah, no,
I've taken like trips with likegirlfriends and you know, and
Jeremy and I have done you know,some time away from from the
girls.
But yeah, to really like take,you know some time and like
really travel by myself.
I would have really liked to dothat and that was something I
(52:36):
actually wanted to do.
I'd booked this trip to Egyptand Jordan that I was supposed
to take in August of 2020, butthen the pandemic had hit that
year and so, you know, plans gotall canceled and derailed and I
never I never went back to thattrip to, you know, rebook it
(52:58):
and do it on my own.
But I think, you know, one dayI will.
You know, right now it'sprobably just not the right time
for me to do that, but you know, maybe when, when I'm a little
bit older and I feel comfortable, you know, leaving some of the
responsibilities behind.
But, that being said, like, yeah, it's just don't put so much
pressure on yourself to have todo things the way that society
(53:22):
expects you or the timeline thatsociety expects you, because I
think, especially when it comesto, you know, career, like you
know, especially when it comesto, you know, career, like you
know, when we graduate, we haveabout, you know, 40 some odd
years of a career ahead of us.
So delaying it by a couplemonths or, you know, taking a
(53:43):
break from it for a year to gofocus on something else, like it
actually is not a big deal inthe grand scheme of a 45 year
career.
And so, you know, really take,take some time to evaluate your
goals in life and, you know, andmake sure that that you don't
(54:06):
forget to do some of thosethings for yourself.
And you know, and the easiestway to do that is don't put too
much pressure.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, I get you summed it up correctly.
It's true, though, like you said, too much pressure on yourself.
I think maybe you might've feltthis too, but I think when we
graduated from high school,there was something like cause
we were in the double cohort andI think there was this added
pressure that if you take anytime off from school, I felt
like if I they were saying likeif you take some time off, then
(54:38):
you won't want to finish yourdegree or you won't want to go
back to school.
Just get right in there and like, even when I finished my
undergrad, and people were likeoh, you know, and I went back to
school, how many years later,like three years later, I took a
break, like after my undergrad,because the job market was so
much harder than I thought itwould be.
Like after I graduated fromYork.
(54:59):
And like if you have goals inmind and you are driven, like
the time away isn't gonna takethat away, like if you're gonna
do something, you're gonna do it, and I think that's the one
thing that they don't pushenough.
You know what I mean.
I think, like you said, takinga little break is not the end of
the world.
It really isn't.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
yeah when you yeah, for us it was tough that that,
yeah, over a year, you knowyou're just, you're faced with
double the amount of competitionand, yeah, and you know it's
like fighting for the samenumber of spots, but with, you
know, extra people to get into agood university, a good program
(55:40):
, and and that continued, youknow, for the rest of our, our
education, which you know was,was one big factor that we had
to grapple with.
But but I hear you At the endof the day, like you know, like
we still could take a break, andit's okay, it's okay, it's okay
.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
At the end of the day .
You know I've learned so muchfrom you from this conversation.
It's amazing how you knowturning 40 and embracing both
the physical and emotionalchanges that this milestone
birthday has brought to us.
I feel like there's so muchmore life to live, there's so
much more to learn, and I justsee you traveling more, sarah,
(56:25):
like you're going to make ithappen.
I know you will, and I want tothank you for sharing like just
the struggles too.
You know what I mean.
It takes a lot to persevere andbe comfortable talking about
like uncomfortable things, youknow.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Well, thank you, carlene.
I had such a great time beingon the show with you and getting
to share.
You know my perspective andhopefully it resonates with
people.
Yeah, to me it's just, it'slike catching up with an old
friend.
Speaker 1 (56:59):
It is, it totally is, and that's exactly how it is,
you know?
Um, it's amazing.
I'm Carlene and this is DivaTonight with the lovely Sarah
Lau.
Thank you so much, sarah, foryour time.
It's been a pleasure talking toyou.
Thank you, you're welcome.
Speaker 3 (57:26):
Diva Tonight with Carlene will be back.
Send us a message on Instagramat diva underscore tonight.
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