August 12, 2025 • 23 mins
What happens when you realize the courtroom isn’t the only path to divorce? In this episode, attorney and mediator Cary Jacobson sits down with Azizah Ahmad, Esq., whose personal four-year battle in family court transformed how she now helps others navigate divorce. Azizah shares her story of moving from high-conflict litigation to out-of-court mediation — and how choosing dignity and collaboration can lead to healthier co-parenting, lower costs, and lasting peace.
Whether you’re considering divorce, already in the process, or simply exploring your options, this conversation offers hope, practical insight, and a powerful reminder: you have more control than you think. Learn more about Azizah and her services here.
Visit jacobsonworkshop.com to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
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Azizah Ahmad (00:00):
And I just thought that it had to be that way.
I never knew that we could haveworked with someone out on
court.
And again, since we reallydidn't have much property, we
didn't have really much we gotmarried at 24.
I just didn't know.
I just didn't know, and also Ididn't know that sometimes, just
how I was playing chess when Iwas writing those appellate
(00:21):
briefs, my first attorney wasplaying chess with me.
You know, we're going to askfor this, so then he'll give
that, and we're going to ask forthis and that, and so then his
side is fighting back and againwe're just like wait, whoa.
Intro/Close (00:35):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Cary
Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical
advice on navigating divorce andfamily law.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Cary Jacobson (00:57):
Welcome back to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the
Trenches, the podcast where weexplore real stories, insights
and tools for navigating divorcewith clarity and compassion.
I'm your host, Cary Jacobsonattorney, mediator and advocate
for out-of-court resolutions,and today's episode is for
anyone who is tired of the warstories and really there to
(01:21):
ready to hear from a differentkind of narrative, one centered
around peace, dignity and truetransformation.
I am so honored to have AzizahAhmad to the podcast.
Azizah is a graduate of HowardUniversity School of Law with a
strong background in education,advocacy and conflict resolution
(01:42):
, but, more importantly, she issomeone who has lived this story
herself.
After an enduring fourdevastating years in family
court during her own divorce,Azizah made a powerful decision
to shift away from litigationand move towards peaceful
mediation.
She now helps others navigatedivorce with dignity, offering
(02:05):
legal insight grounded inemotional intelligence and
personal experience.
Azizah Ahmad (02:14):
Thank you so much for being here today.
Oh, thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure.
Let me just get my screentogether.
It's my absolute pleasure.
Thank you so much.
What a nice opening too.
Cary Jacobson (02:20):
Absolutely so.
I know I kind of gave a snippetof your personal journey, but
can you share with our listenersa little bit about your
personal journey, how you wentfrom litigation and what you
were, what type of law you werelitigating and now what you're?
Azizah Ahmad (02:38):
doing so.
I graduated from Howard Law asa wife and a mother.
I graduated actually pregnantwith my first son and I knew
that I wanted to primarily focuson just motherhood for the
first couple years beforeentering into the field.
But I was fortunate to land ona really wonderful job where I
(02:58):
wrote appellate briefs for afamily law attorney.
And it was kind of like chess,these weren't my people, these
weren't my children, theseweren't my life.
So it was kind of like chess,these weren't my people, these
weren't my children, theseweren't my lives.
So it was kind of like chess, I, I, I enjoyed it, but I didn't
have a personal connection to it.
It was like a job for me.
(03:18):
Um, I gave it my best, but itwasn't until it was my turn that
I really realized, like, howaggressive the system is, how,
how, how devastating it can beto families and how it doesn't
it doesn't promote peacefulresolution.
And I entered into theCalifornia courts with my
(03:42):
divorce after a 10 year you knowlong-term marriage, and I
thought, okay, we don't havemuch.
We got married pretty young butthe biggest valuable thing we
had was some children.
We'd already sold our home.
I thought I'd be in and out.
Unfortunately, I chose anattorney who wanted to be very
aggressive.
He asked for full custody,which shook my ex-husband and
(04:03):
made him come back for mestronger, and he hired a law
firm.
So I have my lawyer, he has hislaw firm and we're in court and
we're battling and I don't evenunderstand why.
But no, there's the first trial, then there is a continuous,
then there's a next trial andthere's a continuous, then
there's like five minutes ofmediation with a mediator that
(04:24):
literally spends maybe literallylike maybe 15 minutes hearing
my story and makes judgerecommendations not based on the
continued story or the fullreality or the full picture.
And literally I spent four yearsof my life worried about being
served and just stressed out,and it affected how I was able
(04:46):
to parent my children, itaffected how I, it affected my
sleep, it affected, like my, mycareer and in the end we were in
family court.
Our children were in the familycourt daycare Great feeling to
have your children in familycourt daycare while you're in
court.
And I looked around and I saidthe bailiff's being paid, the
(05:06):
judge is getting paid, thestenographer's getting paid,
everyone's getting paid, but usand we're the ones that have
these three children that wehave to take care of, and I just
decided.
I said, if I could get throughthis in one piece, I want to
focus on helping others not haveto go through this.
And fortunately I did and we myex-husband and I we finally
(05:28):
walked away from family courtand we ended up making an
agreement on our own with amediator outside of court, and
we've been fine ever since.
We've been fine ever since.
We spent four years literallybattling and paying everybody
and in the end, we were able touse our common sense and our
shared love for our children towalk away, create a marital
(05:52):
settlement agreement, give thejudge what we wanted to have for
our family and move forwardMove forward peacefully and
gracefully.
And I'm so grateful and I justagain, I have devoted my life in
helping others not have to gothrough this.
So any more questions.
Cary Jacobson (06:12):
I don't want to just get away.
Well, no, I love.
I mean I'm very sorry that youhad to experience that, because
you know as an attorney that'swhat I saw on a regular basis
and you know in the family courtsystem that how terrible the
litigation process was, and Itoo recognize that there had to
(06:35):
be a better way.
I think part of the challengeand this was going to be part of
my question part of thechallenge is people not knowing
that there is an alternativeoption as far as a process to
begin with.
So what I'm curious for you isdid you have any idea, even as
(06:56):
an attorney yourself, even as anattorney yourself, that you
didn't necessarily have to startwith the litigation process
first and that you hadalternative options to start?
Azizah Ahmad (07:10):
No, I thought I had to get an attorney, I had to
find someone to serve him.
You know, I was not in the bestplace.
I was like who's going to servethem?
And I just thought that it hadto be that way.
I never knew that we could haveworked with someone out on
court.
And again, since we reallydidn't have much property, we
didn't have really much we gotmarried at 24.
(07:33):
I just didn't know.
I just didn't know, and also Ididn't know that sometimes, just
how I was playing chess when Iwas writing those appellate
briefs, my first attorney wasplaying chess with me.
You know, they're gonna go,we're gonna ask for this, so
then he'll give that, and we'regonna ask for this and that, and
so then his side is fightingback and again we're just like
wait, whoa, whoa, okay, I guesswhat?
(07:53):
Wait?
So no, I didn't know that and,um, I think a lot of people
don't.
Cary Jacobson (07:58):
So yeah, yeah, a hundred percent agree.
And if someone who's in thefield right, who you at least
were tangentially connected tothe family law world, if?
If you didn't know, then whywould we expect other people to
know that there are alternativeoptions?
And so you know?
(08:21):
That's really one of thereasons I want to do this
podcast, one of the reasons I dowhat we do, which is try to
educate people as much aspossible, that you don't have to
start there, because, just asyou described, oftentimes it's
(08:46):
the other people in the processthat are driving the driving it,
and it's not the people who are, you know, the participants.
It wasn't you, it wasn't yourhusband making those decisions
to do this, it was yourattorneys.
Azizah Ahmad (08:57):
Exactly.
It was not us.
We were not the ones in thedriver's seat, though it was our
lives and the lives of ourchildren that were being
affected, and that's never agood place to be.
You never want to give up thatmuch of your power and your
autonomy to someone else.
That again sees you more as achess piece than a human being.
Cary Jacobson (09:16):
Yeah, now you mentioned that you were in
family court but you ended upsettling in mediation.
How did that?
How did that work?
Did the judge make a finaldetermination and then you guys
changed it, or did you kind ofstop the process before it got
that far?
Azizah Ahmad (09:39):
really that day when we put the kids in court
daycare and we were walking outand paying our expensive I mean
just everything was expensive,like even the parking lot was
expensive and we both were likewe're not doing this anymore.
It wasn't really a real, let'ssay, organized agreement, but we
decided we're just not, we'renot going back, and from there
(10:03):
we were able to find mediatorsand also, just you know, as a
law graduate, a lot of my peerssupported me once they found out
what was going on, and fromthere we were able to see like,
ok, oh, we do have more autonomythan we thought.
We can tell the judge what wewant for our family and be done
with this.
And that's what we've done overthe past few years.
(10:27):
We've been able to stay out ofcourt with all of our issues and
it's just been a much happierlife.
But it really was more so likea I guess I'd say aha moment.
Just like we're just not, we'renot coming back here, we're not
paying for parking fees, we'renot putting our kids in care,
we're just not doing thisanymore.
Yeah.
Cary Jacobson (10:48):
Yeah.
So tell me now how now you helpothers stay out of that same
situation.
Azizah Ahmad (10:56):
Well, I joined a powerful network of mediators
and attorneys called Divorcewith Dignity and actually my
practice is out of Maryland, inthe Montgomery County and Howard
County areas.
It's the area I love dearly.
It's where I first started mylegal career, so I wanted to
kind of start there and what Ido is give couples the option to
(11:18):
mediate.
I do document preparation, Ijust my.
I guess my skill is like Idon't want you to step foot in
court.
Work with me.
I'm trained, I'm skilled.
I have several certificationsin mediation.
I've been practicing for overgosh.
I graduated in 07.
It goes by fast.
(11:41):
Let me help you.
I have all the same softwarethat the judges have.
I can help you divide yourassets.
I can help with the retirement.
All the things that the judgescan do I can do on my own and it
could be a personalized processwith someone that actually
cares Like I, the only care totake on clients that I know that
I can support.
It's a niche practice so Idon't have to.
(12:03):
You know, sometimes it's not agood fit and that's okay.
I could refer out, but when itis a good fit I'm able to just
give my all and in helping itfrom from A to B and I see that
when this happens it not onlymakes the process easier, it
makes moving forward easier.
Right, and that's what I thinkI'm most passionate about is
(12:25):
like, okay, now, as you all moveforward as a family, that looks
different now because familiescome in different shapes and
sizes.
It could be amicably, you know,it could be with the dignity
that you deserve, versus feelinglike you survived World War
Three and just you know.
So that's, I guess, what I lovethe most is that I'm able to
help people go from a place ofmaybe anger, confusion, to a
(12:49):
place of empowerment.
You really do feel moreempowered when you are the one
writing and choosing anddeveloping your script for life
moving forward.
So I kind of call myself adivorce doula.
I help you into the next phaseof your life and I really enjoy
the work.
I'm really happy.
I hate how it had to come about, but I'm very happy to be doing
(13:12):
the work with Divorce, withDignity actually too, because
it's so many attorneys that if Ido have a question, we're a
network.
So I practice on my own but Ihave a whole network of other
attorneys that I can askquestions to or hey, how do you
do this of other attorneys thatI can ask questions to, or hey,
how do you do this?
Or who do you use for quadro?
Or will you do this and it's?
It's just been wonderful, it'sjust been a wonderful
opportunity and a wonderful fitfor me.
Cary Jacobson (13:37):
That's wonderful.
Who are your ideal clients?
Who are the ones that are agood fit for mediation and
trying to resolve their theirissues amicably?
Azizah Ahmad (13:49):
My ideal client are people that understand
mostly.
Well, my biggest, I guess,sticking point is they
understand that this is gonna bea less costly situation.
So those that want to keeptheir costs down.
Two, of course, those that arewilling to work together and
(14:10):
understand that things.
It's sometimes it's pricklylike a cactus, sometimes they go
through the layers and thingslike that.
Everyone has to be best offriends, but they recognize that
working with a mediator isstill a better concept than
going in front of a judge, right, um, so once.
One, that they understand thatthey're going to save money.
Two, they're open and willingto work together towards a
(14:33):
resolution A lot of times whenchildren are involved.
That seems to be a big reasonwhy people choose me.
They want to make the bestchoices for their children and
make the best schedules fortheir children, for their
children, and make the bestschedules for their children.
And also, just, um, yeah, justsomeone that's willing to trust
um, trust my skill set and um bewilling to work with me and
(14:54):
just give their all.
So, yeah, so cost effective um,willing to work together.
Again, a lot of times, thechildren, as a big point.
That's my, my own shout.
We keep it real, you know wekeep it real um so um.
Those are most of the things,though, too.
So, yeah, couples that want to,um, keep their costs down, um,
(15:18):
keep their uh, all of theirnegativity and all of the
conflict down and want to.
Oftentimes I do work withcouples without children also,
but a lot of times too, childrenbeing the ones making the
biggest decisions is a big, is abig sticking point also.
Cary Jacobson (15:34):
Yeah, I find that as well.
People who want to have thathealthy co-parenting
relationship post divorceExactly, that's a great way to
put it Exactly, what do you findto be some of the most common
misconceptions about eithermediation or amicable divorce in
general?
Azizah Ahmad (15:55):
A lot of times.
A lot of times my clients areafraid that he who barks, he or
she or she who barks the loudestwill be heard the most.
A lot of times they'reconcerned that the advocacy
might not be fair due to onemaybe being a little more
(16:15):
charismatic or getting a littlelouder.
And the thing is, I listen forwhat's unsaid.
Sometimes, when you're trainedas a mediator, there's several
different routes that you can go, and I'm able to have breakout
spaces and things and I'm ableto hear both voices.
So I guess the biggest concernis will my voice be heard?
(16:37):
You know, will my voice beheard?
And I really try to explainthat, yes, I will hear both of
your voices.
That's my goal, that's my job,you know, and that's what I want
to do.
So that too, yeah, bias will Ibe biased towards one at one
side to also oh, is this reallygoing to hold in court?
Cary Jacobson (17:00):
Am I going to?
Azizah Ahmad (17:00):
end up in court anyway, okay.
Also, is this binding?
Family law, as we always knowis is is very flex.
Nothing is.
It's binding until you don'twant it to be anymore, and
that's one thing that I'm likespain like, if we need to come
back in two or three years andchange something about a custody
agreement, we can do that, butright now, let's make a solid
(17:21):
agreement and have it um filed.
So a lot of times people areworried that they might create
an agreement now that doesn'tsuit them later in life, later
down the line.
That's also an issue that I seesometimes, and I hope most
times I'm able to, you know,hopefully make them feel more
comfortable about those issues.
Cary Jacobson (17:41):
Right yeah, how do you help people who may be
moving from?
You know are more on the highconflict side but through the
mediation process, how do youhelp them become more resolution
based?
Azizah Ahmad (17:58):
I find the best thing I can do is make people
feel empowered, and this is thisis this is your story, this is
your life, these are theagreements that you're making,
moving forward, and that's whatI find the best, and that might
sound overly simplified, though,but really it is really just
(18:21):
explaining that you can eithergive your power to someone else,
and they might fight reallyhard, but no one knows you and
your situation and your familylike you do.
So the best person to createthese agreements and to resolve
these solutions, to resolvethese conflicting areas, are you
(18:42):
, and if it takes a little time,it takes a little time.
Of course, no one wants to bemediating for forever, just like
I did for four years, though,too, but if we need to take a
little break and let things calmdown, that's OK.
That's okay, I'm here for you,and if we need again, there are
(19:04):
times I'm like okay, let's meetagain next week.
This is a good place to stopright here.
So it really is also, I guess,just measuring the temperature
and just really just filling theroom.
It's so many innate traits, Ifeel, that, that come out that
I'm able to use, so that that'skind of how I do with high
(19:26):
conflict situations and, quitehonestly, sometimes, most times
I'm able to work through it.
But there are times I'm like,okay, you know, let's, let's
refer you out.
I you know, I appreciate youboth coming and working your
hardest, but maybe this isn'tthe best situation for you, and
fortunately that's not often.
But that's the good thing aboutit.
If that is the truth, that'sthe truth and I can just do that
(19:49):
.
What's?
Cary Jacobson (19:50):
one thing that you wish people knew before they
stepped into the divorceprocess.
Azizah Ahmad (19:58):
It's a very good question.
Even when both parties are inagreement that this is the best
step moving forward, it's stilla process that's going to
include emotions, sometimes highemotions.
It's still a process, even whenboth parties do agree to work
(20:20):
together.
There might be some animosityof how they got there or where
they're going, and so justreally understanding that no
matter.
It's never going to just beabout filing a paper or filing a
document, about filing a paperor filing a document.
This is a very human experienceand, as big as AI is becoming
(20:44):
and I can do it on my ownthere's a human aspect of
divorce that you can never goaround, and I think that's why
it's so important to work withsomeone that understands that
and that wants to help you moveforward with that.
Cary Jacobson (21:01):
A hundred percent agree.
Thank you for that.
So, aziza, thank you for beinghere and for being such a
powerful example of what ittakes, what it means, to rise
from the personal pain and tocreate meaningful change for
others.
I love that you know, eventhough it came out of a negative
place, that you are helpingothers from having to go through
(21:24):
that same experience.
Azizah Ahmad (21:26):
Oh, thank you so much for having me on and I
admire the work that you do andjust thank you so much.
You know, maybe you're helpingfamilies resolve their conflicts
and get the other side.
You know, with moving forwardand helping families resolve
their conflicts and get to theother side, you know, with grace
and dignity.
Cary Jacobson (21:43):
Absolutely.
How can our listeners find moreabout you and your services?
Azizah Ahmad (21:48):
I am Azizah Ahmad, Esquire.
I am located at Dwdignity.
com, there are a list ofdifferent practitioners and if
you go to Maryland, pressMaryland, I am there with my
full profile and I'd love tohelp you and if not, one of my
fellow practitioners would loveto help you.
(22:08):
So, dwdignity.
com, I'm Azizah Ahmad Esquire onthere.
Cary Jacobson (22:14):
Awesome, thank you so much, and for our
listeners, please be sure tofollow Divorce Diaries Lessons
from the Trenches for moreempowering conversations just
like this one.
Until next time, take care, andwe look forward to seeing you
Take care.
Intro/Close (22:34):
Remember, every journey is unique, but you don't
have to navigate it alone.
Visit JacobsonFamilyLaw.
com or call 443-726-4912 forsupport and guidance.
And I just thought that it had to be that way.
I never knew that we could haveworked with someone out on
court.
And again, since we reallydidn't have much property, we
didn't have really much we gotmarried at 24.
I just didn't know.
I just didn't know, and also Ididn't know that sometimes, just
how I was playing chess when Iwas writing those appellate
(00:21):
briefs, my first attorney wasplaying chess with me.
You know, we're going to askfor this, so then he'll give
that, and we're going to ask forthis and that, and so then his
side is fighting back and againwe're just like wait, whoa.
Intro/Close (00:35):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Cary
Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical
advice on navigating divorce andfamily law.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Cary Jacobson (00:57):
Welcome back to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the
Trenches, the podcast where weexplore real stories, insights
and tools for navigating divorcewith clarity and compassion.
I'm your host, Cary Jacobsonattorney, mediator and advocate
for out-of-court resolutions,and today's episode is for
anyone who is tired of the warstories and really there to
(01:21):
ready to hear from a differentkind of narrative, one centered
around peace, dignity and truetransformation.
I am so honored to have AzizahAhmad to the podcast.
Azizah is a graduate of HowardUniversity School of Law with a
strong background in education,advocacy and conflict resolution
(01:42):
, but, more importantly, she issomeone who has lived this story
herself.
After an enduring fourdevastating years in family
court during her own divorce,Azizah made a powerful decision
to shift away from litigationand move towards peaceful
mediation.
She now helps others navigatedivorce with dignity, offering
(02:05):
legal insight grounded inemotional intelligence and
personal experience.
Azizah Ahmad (02:14):
Thank you so much for being here today.
Oh, thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure.
Let me just get my screentogether.
It's my absolute pleasure.
Thank you so much.
What a nice opening too.
Cary Jacobson (02:20):
Absolutely so.
I know I kind of gave a snippetof your personal journey, but
can you share with our listenersa little bit about your
personal journey, how you wentfrom litigation and what you
were, what type of law you werelitigating and now what you're?
Azizah Ahmad (02:38):
doing so.
I graduated from Howard Law asa wife and a mother.
I graduated actually pregnantwith my first son and I knew
that I wanted to primarily focuson just motherhood for the
first couple years beforeentering into the field.
But I was fortunate to land ona really wonderful job where I
(02:58):
wrote appellate briefs for afamily law attorney.
And it was kind of like chess,these weren't my people, these
weren't my children, theseweren't my life.
So it was kind of like chess,these weren't my people, these
weren't my children, theseweren't my lives.
So it was kind of like chess, I, I, I enjoyed it, but I didn't
have a personal connection to it.
It was like a job for me.
(03:18):
Um, I gave it my best, but itwasn't until it was my turn that
I really realized, like, howaggressive the system is, how,
how, how devastating it can beto families and how it doesn't
it doesn't promote peacefulresolution.
And I entered into theCalifornia courts with my
(03:42):
divorce after a 10 year you knowlong-term marriage, and I
thought, okay, we don't havemuch.
We got married pretty young butthe biggest valuable thing we
had was some children.
We'd already sold our home.
I thought I'd be in and out.
Unfortunately, I chose anattorney who wanted to be very
aggressive.
He asked for full custody,which shook my ex-husband and
(04:03):
made him come back for mestronger, and he hired a law
firm.
So I have my lawyer, he has hislaw firm and we're in court and
we're battling and I don't evenunderstand why.
But no, there's the first trial, then there is a continuous,
then there's a next trial andthere's a continuous, then
there's like five minutes ofmediation with a mediator that
(04:24):
literally spends maybe literallylike maybe 15 minutes hearing
my story and makes judgerecommendations not based on the
continued story or the fullreality or the full picture.
And literally I spent four yearsof my life worried about being
served and just stressed out,and it affected how I was able
(04:46):
to parent my children, itaffected how I, it affected my
sleep, it affected, like my, mycareer and in the end we were in
family court.
Our children were in the familycourt daycare Great feeling to
have your children in familycourt daycare while you're in
court.
And I looked around and I saidthe bailiff's being paid, the
(05:06):
judge is getting paid, thestenographer's getting paid,
everyone's getting paid, but usand we're the ones that have
these three children that wehave to take care of, and I just
decided.
I said, if I could get throughthis in one piece, I want to
focus on helping others not haveto go through this.
And fortunately I did and we myex-husband and I we finally
(05:28):
walked away from family courtand we ended up making an
agreement on our own with amediator outside of court, and
we've been fine ever since.
We've been fine ever since.
We spent four years literallybattling and paying everybody
and in the end, we were able touse our common sense and our
shared love for our children towalk away, create a marital
(05:52):
settlement agreement, give thejudge what we wanted to have for
our family and move forwardMove forward peacefully and
gracefully.
And I'm so grateful and I justagain, I have devoted my life in
helping others not have to gothrough this.
So any more questions.
Cary Jacobson (06:12):
I don't want to just get away.
Well, no, I love.
I mean I'm very sorry that youhad to experience that, because
you know as an attorney that'swhat I saw on a regular basis
and you know in the family courtsystem that how terrible the
litigation process was, and Itoo recognize that there had to
(06:35):
be a better way.
I think part of the challengeand this was going to be part of
my question part of thechallenge is people not knowing
that there is an alternativeoption as far as a process to
begin with.
So what I'm curious for you isdid you have any idea, even as
(06:56):
an attorney yourself, even as anattorney yourself, that you
didn't necessarily have to startwith the litigation process
first and that you hadalternative options to start?
Azizah Ahmad (07:10):
No, I thought I had to get an attorney, I had to
find someone to serve him.
You know, I was not in the bestplace.
I was like who's going to servethem?
And I just thought that it hadto be that way.
I never knew that we could haveworked with someone out on
court.
And again, since we reallydidn't have much property, we
didn't have really much we gotmarried at 24.
(07:33):
I just didn't know.
I just didn't know, and also Ididn't know that sometimes, just
how I was playing chess when Iwas writing those appellate
briefs, my first attorney wasplaying chess with me.
You know, they're gonna go,we're gonna ask for this, so
then he'll give that, and we'regonna ask for this and that, and
so then his side is fightingback and again we're just like
wait, whoa, whoa, okay, I guesswhat?
(07:53):
Wait?
So no, I didn't know that and,um, I think a lot of people
don't.
Cary Jacobson (07:58):
So yeah, yeah, a hundred percent agree.
And if someone who's in thefield right, who you at least
were tangentially connected tothe family law world, if?
If you didn't know, then whywould we expect other people to
know that there are alternativeoptions?
And so you know?
(08:21):
That's really one of thereasons I want to do this
podcast, one of the reasons I dowhat we do, which is try to
educate people as much aspossible, that you don't have to
start there, because, just asyou described, oftentimes it's
(08:46):
the other people in the processthat are driving the driving it,
and it's not the people who are, you know, the participants.
It wasn't you, it wasn't yourhusband making those decisions
to do this, it was yourattorneys.
Azizah Ahmad (08:57):
Exactly.
It was not us.
We were not the ones in thedriver's seat, though it was our
lives and the lives of ourchildren that were being
affected, and that's never agood place to be.
You never want to give up thatmuch of your power and your
autonomy to someone else.
That again sees you more as achess piece than a human being.
Cary Jacobson (09:16):
Yeah, now you mentioned that you were in
family court but you ended upsettling in mediation.
How did that?
How did that work?
Did the judge make a finaldetermination and then you guys
changed it, or did you kind ofstop the process before it got
that far?
Azizah Ahmad (09:39):
really that day when we put the kids in court
daycare and we were walking outand paying our expensive I mean
just everything was expensive,like even the parking lot was
expensive and we both were likewe're not doing this anymore.
It wasn't really a real, let'ssay, organized agreement, but we
decided we're just not, we'renot going back, and from there
(10:03):
we were able to find mediatorsand also, just you know, as a
law graduate, a lot of my peerssupported me once they found out
what was going on, and fromthere we were able to see like,
ok, oh, we do have more autonomythan we thought.
We can tell the judge what wewant for our family and be done
with this.
And that's what we've done overthe past few years.
(10:27):
We've been able to stay out ofcourt with all of our issues and
it's just been a much happierlife.
But it really was more so likea I guess I'd say aha moment.
Just like we're just not, we'renot coming back here, we're not
paying for parking fees, we'renot putting our kids in care,
we're just not doing thisanymore.
Yeah.
Cary Jacobson (10:48):
Yeah.
So tell me now how now you helpothers stay out of that same
situation.
Azizah Ahmad (10:56):
Well, I joined a powerful network of mediators
and attorneys called Divorcewith Dignity and actually my
practice is out of Maryland, inthe Montgomery County and Howard
County areas.
It's the area I love dearly.
It's where I first started mylegal career, so I wanted to
kind of start there and what Ido is give couples the option to
(11:18):
mediate.
I do document preparation, Ijust my.
I guess my skill is like Idon't want you to step foot in
court.
Work with me.
I'm trained, I'm skilled.
I have several certificationsin mediation.
I've been practicing for overgosh.
I graduated in 07.
It goes by fast.
(11:41):
Let me help you.
I have all the same softwarethat the judges have.
I can help you divide yourassets.
I can help with the retirement.
All the things that the judgescan do I can do on my own and it
could be a personalized processwith someone that actually
cares Like I, the only care totake on clients that I know that
I can support.
It's a niche practice so Idon't have to.
(12:03):
You know, sometimes it's not agood fit and that's okay.
I could refer out, but when itis a good fit I'm able to just
give my all and in helping itfrom from A to B and I see that
when this happens it not onlymakes the process easier, it
makes moving forward easier.
Right, and that's what I thinkI'm most passionate about is
(12:25):
like, okay, now, as you all moveforward as a family, that looks
different now because familiescome in different shapes and
sizes.
It could be amicably, you know,it could be with the dignity
that you deserve, versus feelinglike you survived World War
Three and just you know.
So that's, I guess, what I lovethe most is that I'm able to
help people go from a place ofmaybe anger, confusion, to a
(12:49):
place of empowerment.
You really do feel moreempowered when you are the one
writing and choosing anddeveloping your script for life
moving forward.
So I kind of call myself adivorce doula.
I help you into the next phaseof your life and I really enjoy
the work.
I'm really happy.
I hate how it had to come about, but I'm very happy to be doing
(13:12):
the work with Divorce, withDignity actually too, because
it's so many attorneys that if Ido have a question, we're a
network.
So I practice on my own but Ihave a whole network of other
attorneys that I can askquestions to or hey, how do you
do this of other attorneys thatI can ask questions to, or hey,
how do you do this?
Or who do you use for quadro?
Or will you do this and it's?
It's just been wonderful, it'sjust been a wonderful
opportunity and a wonderful fitfor me.
Cary Jacobson (13:37):
That's wonderful.
Who are your ideal clients?
Who are the ones that are agood fit for mediation and
trying to resolve their theirissues amicably?
Azizah Ahmad (13:49):
My ideal client are people that understand
mostly.
Well, my biggest, I guess,sticking point is they
understand that this is gonna bea less costly situation.
So those that want to keeptheir costs down.
Two, of course, those that arewilling to work together and
(14:10):
understand that things.
It's sometimes it's pricklylike a cactus, sometimes they go
through the layers and thingslike that.
Everyone has to be best offriends, but they recognize that
working with a mediator isstill a better concept than
going in front of a judge, right, um, so once.
One, that they understand thatthey're going to save money.
Two, they're open and willingto work together towards a
(14:33):
resolution A lot of times whenchildren are involved.
That seems to be a big reasonwhy people choose me.
They want to make the bestchoices for their children and
make the best schedules fortheir children, for their
children, and make the bestschedules for their children.
And also, just, um, yeah, justsomeone that's willing to trust
um, trust my skill set and um bewilling to work with me and
(14:54):
just give their all.
So, yeah, so cost effective um,willing to work together.
Again, a lot of times, thechildren, as a big point.
That's my, my own shout.
We keep it real, you know wekeep it real um so um.
Those are most of the things,though, too.
So, yeah, couples that want to,um, keep their costs down, um,
(15:18):
keep their uh, all of theirnegativity and all of the
conflict down and want to.
Oftentimes I do work withcouples without children also,
but a lot of times too, childrenbeing the ones making the
biggest decisions is a big, is abig sticking point also.
Cary Jacobson (15:34):
Yeah, I find that as well.
People who want to have thathealthy co-parenting
relationship post divorceExactly, that's a great way to
put it Exactly, what do you findto be some of the most common
misconceptions about eithermediation or amicable divorce in
general?
Azizah Ahmad (15:55):
A lot of times.
A lot of times my clients areafraid that he who barks, he or
she or she who barks the loudestwill be heard the most.
A lot of times they'reconcerned that the advocacy
might not be fair due to onemaybe being a little more
(16:15):
charismatic or getting a littlelouder.
And the thing is, I listen forwhat's unsaid.
Sometimes, when you're trainedas a mediator, there's several
different routes that you can go, and I'm able to have breakout
spaces and things and I'm ableto hear both voices.
So I guess the biggest concernis will my voice be heard?
(16:37):
You know, will my voice beheard?
And I really try to explainthat, yes, I will hear both of
your voices.
That's my goal, that's my job,you know, and that's what I want
to do.
So that too, yeah, bias will Ibe biased towards one at one
side to also oh, is this reallygoing to hold in court?
Cary Jacobson (17:00):
Am I going to?
Azizah Ahmad (17:00):
end up in court anyway, okay.
Also, is this binding?
Family law, as we always knowis is is very flex.
Nothing is.
It's binding until you don'twant it to be anymore, and
that's one thing that I'm likespain like, if we need to come
back in two or three years andchange something about a custody
agreement, we can do that, butright now, let's make a solid
(17:21):
agreement and have it um filed.
So a lot of times people areworried that they might create
an agreement now that doesn'tsuit them later in life, later
down the line.
That's also an issue that I seesometimes, and I hope most
times I'm able to, you know,hopefully make them feel more
comfortable about those issues.
Cary Jacobson (17:41):
Right yeah, how do you help people who may be
moving from?
You know are more on the highconflict side but through the
mediation process, how do youhelp them become more resolution
based?
Azizah Ahmad (17:58):
I find the best thing I can do is make people
feel empowered, and this is thisis this is your story, this is
your life, these are theagreements that you're making,
moving forward, and that's whatI find the best, and that might
sound overly simplified, though,but really it is really just
(18:21):
explaining that you can eithergive your power to someone else,
and they might fight reallyhard, but no one knows you and
your situation and your familylike you do.
So the best person to createthese agreements and to resolve
these solutions, to resolvethese conflicting areas, are you
(18:42):
, and if it takes a little time,it takes a little time.
Of course, no one wants to bemediating for forever, just like
I did for four years, though,too, but if we need to take a
little break and let things calmdown, that's OK.
That's okay, I'm here for you,and if we need again, there are
(19:04):
times I'm like okay, let's meetagain next week.
This is a good place to stopright here.
So it really is also, I guess,just measuring the temperature
and just really just filling theroom.
It's so many innate traits, Ifeel, that, that come out that
I'm able to use, so that that'skind of how I do with high
(19:26):
conflict situations and, quitehonestly, sometimes, most times
I'm able to work through it.
But there are times I'm like,okay, you know, let's, let's
refer you out.
I you know, I appreciate youboth coming and working your
hardest, but maybe this isn'tthe best situation for you, and
fortunately that's not often.
But that's the good thing aboutit.
If that is the truth, that'sthe truth and I can just do that
(19:49):
.
What's?
Cary Jacobson (19:50):
one thing that you wish people knew before they
stepped into the divorceprocess.
Azizah Ahmad (19:58):
It's a very good question.
Even when both parties are inagreement that this is the best
step moving forward, it's stilla process that's going to
include emotions, sometimes highemotions.
It's still a process, even whenboth parties do agree to work
(20:20):
together.
There might be some animosityof how they got there or where
they're going, and so justreally understanding that no
matter.
It's never going to just beabout filing a paper or filing a
document, about filing a paperor filing a document.
This is a very human experienceand, as big as AI is becoming
(20:44):
and I can do it on my ownthere's a human aspect of
divorce that you can never goaround, and I think that's why
it's so important to work withsomeone that understands that
and that wants to help you moveforward with that.
Cary Jacobson (21:01):
A hundred percent agree.
Thank you for that.
So, aziza, thank you for beinghere and for being such a
powerful example of what ittakes, what it means, to rise
from the personal pain and tocreate meaningful change for
others.
I love that you know, eventhough it came out of a negative
place, that you are helpingothers from having to go through
(21:24):
that same experience.
Azizah Ahmad (21:26):
Oh, thank you so much for having me on and I
admire the work that you do andjust thank you so much.
You know, maybe you're helpingfamilies resolve their conflicts
and get the other side.
You know, with moving forwardand helping families resolve
their conflicts and get to theother side, you know, with grace
and dignity.
Cary Jacobson (21:43):
Absolutely.
How can our listeners find moreabout you and your services?
Azizah Ahmad (21:48):
I am Azizah Ahmad, Esquire.
I am located at Dwdignity.
com, there are a list ofdifferent practitioners and if
you go to Maryland, pressMaryland, I am there with my
full profile and I'd love tohelp you and if not, one of my
fellow practitioners would loveto help you.
(22:08):
So, dwdignity.
com, I'm Azizah Ahmad Esquire onthere.
Cary Jacobson (22:14):
Awesome, thank you so much, and for our
listeners, please be sure tofollow Divorce Diaries Lessons
from the Trenches for moreempowering conversations just
like this one.
Until next time, take care, andwe look forward to seeing you
Take care.
Intro/Close (22:34):
Remember, every journey is unique, but you don't
have to navigate it alone.
Visit JacobsonFamilyLaw.
com or call 443-726-4912 forsupport and guidance.
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