July 16, 2025 • 59 mins
The silence was shattered by the words of a six-year-old girl, brave enough to tell her father about a disturbing encounter with their neighbor. What followed was the unraveling of one of the most horrific medical betrayals in modern history.
- The Podcast “Redhanded” on Wondery, Ep 405-The Paedophile Diaries: Dr. Joel Le Scouarnec
- Wikipedia: biography, conviction, number of victims, timeline Le Monde.fr+15Wikipedia+15BMJ+15
- Sky News: diaries, abuse during anesthesia, 300,000 images, sex dolls The Sun+3Sky News+3People.com+3
- Lemonde, AP, CBS News, People, other outlets: trial details, sentence, public reaction, systemic failures
- https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2025/03/17/at-le-scouarnec-s-child-abuse-trial-the-victims-sobs-anger-and-trauma_6739237_7.html
- https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2025/07/09/french-lawyer-who-defended-child-abuser-surgeon-le-scouarnec-dies-in-apparent-suicide_6743204_7.html
If you or someone you know is a victim of physical, sexual or psychological abuse: https://rainn.org/resources
International Sexual Assault Resources | RAINN
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Stay safe, and stay suspicious...trust, after all, is a delicate thing!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
amanda jenna, hey, oh , how you doing a bit under the
weather, yeah yeah, just alittle summer bug situation
going on here not sure, I'msorry, but yeah, so we're taking
it easy yeah, how you doinggood, I'm good.
(00:22):
Actually, I'm gonna be a lotbetter when this episode is over
.
Because I'm doing this episode,because I feel like it's really
important to digger, but thisguy's an absolute blight on
humanity, like he does notdeserve to exist, and so I'm.
It's so depressing, it'sprobably the worst, most awful
(00:42):
thing I've ever talked about.
So, yeah, I'm really selling it.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It's gonna be hard it's gonna be a hard it's gonna
be one of those that's like thisis really shitty to discuss,
but like important to discussbecause these things are
happening and and this is acurrent case right, it is
current, like he had hissentencing a couple weeks ago
and, uh, we'll see what youthink about that towards the end
(01:11):
, so we'll probably bedisappointed, I suppose
Speaker 1 (01:15):
yeah, we usually are with sentencing guys, we're
usually disappointed right so Imean I guess you know, take,
take a little time for you,Amanda, I'll do the story.
I know you're not feeling well.
Put it on mute because there'sno banter that's possible during
this.
This guy is such a despicablehuman being and in fact I'm
(01:38):
going to entitle the episodeDespicable.
Dr Skwarnick Quote I am apedophile and I'm very happy
about it.
End quote.
And I wish I could just end itthere because that says it all.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I was going to say that that's that probably
encapsulate all of thedisgustingness you're going to
unfold.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Before we get into that, though, I will say I've
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All right.
The resources for this episodeprime.
One of the primary resources.
(04:00):
I have to shout out this otherpodcast called Red Handed.
They're wonderful, a couple of.
English ladies and they are justI just could listen to their
accents all day long but alsothey do really thorough research
and somehow they got a hold ofsome stuff that I wasn't willing
to pay for.
So you know, I wasn't willingto pay for Le Monde subscription
(04:22):
in France, because this, thistakes place in France.
So I am using a lot of theinformation from their episode
number 405, the pedophilediaries Dr Joelle Lesquarnak,
and then, of course, my friendWikipedia.
There's a bunch of differentnews articles, and so those will
be listed on our show notes.
I can't state the triggerwarnings enough.
(04:45):
This is going to be horrific.
People.
If you are at all triggered bysuicide, child sexual abuse,
assault, including rape, bewarned.
Listen to our you know, backlog,listen to Red Handed, but not
the, not episode 405, becausethey go into quite a lot of
detail.
I'm not going to go into awhole lot of detail, but just
(05:08):
the overview alone is very, very, very awful and devastating.
And again, I bring this upbecause this is a trusted
surgeon who got away with thisfor 30 years and has only just
come to justice, and some mayquestion whether or not he
actually came to justice.
So I'm bringing it up because Ithink it's important for us to
(05:28):
know, but not because I take anywell pleasure, no, and in this
at all, and I I'm reallydreading talking about it, but I
think it's important.
So, oh, deep breath, little zenmoment.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And do a little line of you got this and you're doing
important work and we're allgoing to buckle up and get our
barf bags.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Listen.
Yeah, my next episode.
I've got to do somethinglighthearted.
I don't know what that would bein our genre, but we'll find
something.
So what happens when the persontrusted to heal is secretly
harming the most vulnerable?
Tonight on well, and it may bethe daytime when you're
listening, but on doctor and thetruth, I was getting very like
(06:17):
moody.
Uh, as I was writing thistonight, I'm doctoring the truth
.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
She was like a 60 minutes.
She was like tonight ondoctoring the truth.
She was like a 60 minutes.
She was like tonight ondoctoring the truth we are going
to uncover this fuckinghorrible shit oh god, he's
horrible.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
The disturbing saga behind dr joelle lescornec, a
respected frenchgastrointestinal surgeon who
preyed on children for decades,hiding in plain sight.
It all began when asix-year-old's brave words
shattered the quiet facade, andit's quite interesting that I
lose my voice as I'm beginningthis, because I think even my
(06:51):
voice is wary of talking aboutthis fool.
Okay, a little liquidrefreshment, okay.
In April 2017, jean-jacques,france, a young couple named
Jerome and Laura had just movedinto town.
Jean-jacques, france, a youngcouple named Jerome and Laura
had just moved into town.
Jean-jacques was a small town insouthwestern France, the kind
(07:11):
of town where everyone was up ineveryone else's business, and
immediately upon moving in, thecouple noticed that their
neighbor, a 66-year-old surgeon,was somewhat unusual.
His house was disgusting tostart, and they could hear him
playing classical music allnight, every night, until the
early hours of the morning.
The windows on his house wereso dirty and grimy that you
(07:33):
couldn't even see through themand, to make matters worse, they
would occasionally spot thisman walking around his garden.
Completely starkers, that'sright, listeners.
This is another story of a manwho enjoys walking around in his
birthday suit.
Oh, what the fuck, that's right, listeners.
This is another story of a manwho enjoys walking around in his
birthday suit.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That's the only comedic relief we're gonna get.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Speaking of comedic relief, be sure to listen to
episode 20 about Rick VanTurdbucket Thiel, where
apparently this is a thing, butunfortunately, in this scenario,
the fence was very short, andso Jerome and Laura, having had
kids at the time in the house,weren't happy about this.
Strangely, they noticed thatwhen they ran into him on the
(08:16):
street in public, he seemedpretty normal.
But I find that even moredisturbing the fact that a man
like this, who will learn who heis, can sometimes seem normal.
Right, that's so scary.
Yeah, they thought he waspolite, respectable and harmless
enough.
That was until april 24th 2017,when jerome and his young
(08:37):
daughter bumped into the surgeonas they were coming home from a
walk.
The surgeon pointed his fingerin the young girl's face and
waggled it back and forth as ifto warn her no, no, no.
Understandably, the childseemed pretty freaked out and
asked her dad if she could goinside, and of course, he said
go inside.
And when he followed her intothe house, his life would never
(09:00):
be the same.
His daughter turned to him andasked if I tell you something,
will you promise not to get mad?
No, jerome said of course, andthen the girl told him what.
No father or anyone would wantto hear.
That man is a strange man.
She said that man showed me hiswilly and she said she'd not
(09:24):
wanted to tell anyone about itbefore because she was worried
that she might go to prison.
Bless her little six-year-oldheart.
She went on to say that theprevious saturday she'd been
playing with her brother in thegarden.
The man next door beckoned herover to the fence, exposed
himself to her and asked her totouch him.
When he refused, he reachedthrough the fence and touched
(09:50):
her with his fingers.
As soon as he heard thishorrible news, jerome called the
police.
Thank goodness Good, dad Right.
The police raided his houseInside.
It was filthy in every sense ofthe word.
Under the floorboards thepolice found a collection of
more than 70 life-sized dolls.
Some were a few feet tall andsome had been rudely modified
(10:12):
with sex toys.
Some were chained and bound.
But this was just the tip ofthe iceberg.
In the living room,investigators found a catalog of
horror.
They found crates of notebooksdetailing his abuses, with names
, dates and ages of the victims.
(10:36):
Later the media began to referto these notebooks and friends
as Les Coins Noirs or the BlackNotebooks.
These were the handwrittenaccounts of the abuses.
All of the victims heperpetrated against were
children who had been in hiscare.
Investigators also found over300,000 child sexual abuse
(10:56):
images.
In total, there were 299victims over 30 years.
The abuses were carried out at12 different clinics and
hospitals across northwestFrance, all under the guise of
medical examinations.
Perhaps more shocking was thisman's pride in the atrocities
(11:17):
that he had been committing.
One such comment in his diariesread I am a pedophile and
always will be.
Here's another disgusting quotefrom his journal.
While smoking my morningcigarette, I reflected on the
fact that I am a big pervert, avoyeur, a sadist, a masochist, a
(11:38):
fetishist and a pedophile allrolled into one, and I am very
happy about it.
What the frick?
There were even twisted loveletters to his victims.
Some of them were as young asone year of age and I just
couldn't bring myself to readthose quotes.
(11:59):
They were so painfully horrific.
Many pages in his diaryexpressed his frustration that
his family didn't understand hisquote.
Lifestyle end quote.
Oh, no, kidding, nobody doesdude.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
It's not a lifestyle you sicko.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Right.
He also expressed his beliefthat he was getting away, his
disbelief sorry that he wasgetting away with what he was
doing and that he'd managed todo this for so long.
Because after all, dearlisteners, this man had been
convicted in 2005, yet stillsomehow managed to be allowed to
(12:38):
continue working with childrenfor another 13 years after his
conviction but more on thatlater.
It should be noted that thesecrimes weren't impulsive acts.
They were methodical,premeditated and meticulously
recorded in his vice-filledlogbook of horror.
Joel Laskwarnik was born onDecember 3, 1950, in Paris, to
(13:03):
his hard-working parents, acarpenter and a nanny.
He had two siblings and was theoldest.
This meant that he felt immensepressure to succeed from an
early age.
So at the age of 10, he decidedhe wanted to become a surgeon.
Now, I'm not saying surgeonsare likely to be psychopaths,
(13:25):
but I am saying a lot ofpsychopaths are likely to be
surgeons.
Joël was a quiet child whoenjoyed being alone with his
books and classic records forcompany.
He kept detailed written listsof his collections, not just of
his books and vinyl, but ofoperas that he had seen, films
he had watched and cities he hadvisited.
(13:45):
But there was something a bitoff when his grandfather died
and he visited the mortuary.
He later said I knew what itmeant, but I didn't feel any
emotion.
I didn't feel anything, eventhough it was my grandfather.
Red flag, maybe, yeah, maybe.
(14:06):
Laskornik graduated frommedical school in Nantes in 1983
.
He worked in Luxe, vence,lorient, kimperley and finally
Jean-Jacques until 2017.
Laskornik specialized inabdominal issues like
appendicitis, hernias andgastrointestinal surgery.
(14:28):
He operated on both childrenand adults.
Early in his career he begandating a young nursing assistant
named Marie France.
Later he secured a job as asurgeon at a clinic in Vannes
and the two of them moved theretogether, leading a comfortable
life.
They went on to have three boystogether and an active social
(14:52):
life.
They went on lavish holidays toItaly and other places in
Europe and they lived in amassive mansion on a giant hill,
complete with a grand piano inthe lounge.
As a busy surgeon, laskwarnikwas not around much for his kids
, but when he was, he would takehis boys to museums and he
encouraged them to take musiclessons.
The children do say theyremember their childhood as
happy Happy, that is, untiltheir grandfather was around.
(15:16):
The paternal grandfather, josephLaskwarnik, was Joël's father.
I already mentioned he was acarpenter, but when he was 40
years old.
While commuting into the cityfor work, joseph met a
19-year-old man named ChristianDubois.
They struck up a friendshipduring their morning commutes on
the train and eventually, whenJoseph lost his job, christian
(15:37):
helped him get a new one at thebank where Christian worked, and
over the years Christian becamepart of the family.
He even went on family holidays.
One of these holidays, joelle'ssister walked in on Joseph, her
dad and Christian playing witha stuffed animal which had been
taken from DuBois' stuffedanimal collection.
When she walked in, they lookedworked up and embarrassed and
(16:03):
they shouted at her to close thedoor.
Years later, when Joelle'smother died, christian moved in
with the with a family.
Listeners will have to decidefor themselves what they think
about that.
Suspish, though, am I right?
Years later, when joelle hadhis children, they nicknamed
their grandfather joseph grandpamaniac.
I mean mean, if you know.
You know.
(16:23):
Years later, the kids sharedthat they overheard Joseph
asking their mother to recordporn films for him off the
television.
So this grandpa porn addict ranhis household with an absolute
iron fist.
When the boys were at Joseph'shouse, they were never allowed
to shower or set foot in thedining room.
They were also not allowed outinto grandpa's hut.
(16:44):
The hut was a wooden shed thatstood at the bottom of the
garden.
Joseph would often lock himselfaway for hours.
Nobody was allowed in, exceptfor one of his three grandsons,
fabian.
Unfortunately, it was therethat Joseph sexually abused his
grandson Fabian for years.
Fabian later testified that hewas between five and nine years
old and it happened everywherein the kitchen, in front of the
(17:06):
TV, in the shed.
One day he desperately told thefamily friend, christian Dubois
, about his grandfather flashinghim, touching him and forcing
him to give oral sex.
Dubois actually confrontedJoseph about what was going on
and Joseph then apparently brokedown, saying that he'd been
raped by a priest when he was achild and that's why he was
(17:28):
doing what he was doing now.
He swore to Dubois that hewould change and he would never
do it again.
Interestingly, to this day Joëldenies ever being abused by his
father.
Also interesting is Jo Joeltestified he wasn't always a
pedophile.
He claims to have operated onchildren for years and even
(17:51):
worked on a pediatric board forsix months and never felt any
attraction or desire at all.
But in 1985, in his own words,he transferred his sexuality.
That started with hisfive-year-old niece, fanny.
He claimed that she was veryaffectionate towards him and
would sit in his lap and atfirst it disturbed him, but then
(18:11):
his thoughts turned sexual, soI guess it's all the
five-year-old's fault, right?
I mean, I feel like vomiting.
This is when the squirterconsiders that he was a
pedophile.
That's when he discovered it.
He started making what he callsunfortunate gestures and then
soon in his black notebooks hechronicled the sexual abuse
(18:31):
perpetrated in nauseating detail.
He wrote that before Fanny Inever would have had such an
idea.
Before that I had a normal life, I made love with my wife, I
had nothing to write about.
But after this instance hebegan writing and it consumed
him completely.
I don't understand what canlead someone who in other ways
(18:52):
is attracted to adults to take apath where they engage with
child sex abuse images.
It's just mind-boggling.
Some people commented thatperhaps it went hand in hand
with a kind of God complex frombeing a surgeon, which for the
majority of surgeons isn'tapplicable.
But for him it's an interestingtheory because he does most of
his offending in hospitals andso about that he came across as
(19:17):
quiet and reserved and mostpeople just thought a competent
surgeon.
He was able to walk around inhis white coat with impunity and
, as we've talked about beforein this podcast, the children
and the elderly unfortunatelyfall victim to perpetrators like
these in institutions becausenobody believes them or they're
too scared to speak out.
We need to do more for ourvulnerable populations.
(19:40):
Anyway, lusquarnock startedrecording his abuses, which
occurred not just in thehospitals he worked in, but he
was also absolutely content todo this to children that he knew
and who were related to him,and he referred to all of this
revoltingly as his sex life.
On the one hand, he's awell-to-do surgeon, husband,
(20:02):
father, thriving, advancing inhis career, living in his
massive mansion, attendingglossy parties Like he's in the
upper echelon of society at thispoint, and on the other hand,
you have the abuser, who'sdescending deeper and deeper
into depravity with the kind ofabuse he's engaging in.
Joel later wrote in hisnotebook I no longer examine
(20:23):
young patients.
I looked at them with the eyesof a pedophile.
Every gesture took on a sexualconnotation.
Over the years, the hospitalsand clinics that he worked in
became hunting grounds.
Walking through the halls, hewould look for children who were
alone in their rooms.
He was so crafty he would neverask the nurse to leave the room
because he was cautious aboutthe abuse that he carried out.
(20:44):
He didn't want to get caught.
He was so crafty he would neverask the nurse to leave the room
because he was cautious aboutthe abuse that he carried out.
He didn't want to get caught.
He was careful not to lingertoo long so that he would draw
too much attention to himself.
He wrote in his diaries that hewould only move on a child when
he knew the coast was clear.
He would step into the room andsay one of his phrases like
I've come to see if your tummyhurts or does it burn when you
pee.
And then Skornik would act asif he was carrying out a medical
(21:08):
exam, exposing a child's lowerbody and abusing them.
If he were ever caught by anurse or anyone else which was
rare but sometimes did happen hewould quickly pull up the
sheets and carry on like nothingwas amiss.
He never left any marks and hewas careful never to cause too
much physical pain.
If he felt any resistance orsuspicion he would stop.
(21:29):
But that rarely happened.
The position of authority that adoctor in a white coat has over
a child on their own cannot beoverstated.
He wrote in his diaries thatthe advantage of girls between
three and ten is that you cantouch them without asking too
many questions.
I think I'm gonna vomit andburst into tears.
This is so horrible.
(21:51):
I thought I could talk aboutthis without losing it, but I
don't know close guys.
I think this that was one ofthe most disgusting sentences
that has ever been said out loud, and certainly one for me, and
that's horrible.
I just want listeners to know.
I'm really sorry, but can youbelieve this is happening in
this day and age?
(22:12):
So most of his abuses werecarried out on that population,
but there were older childrenthat he also abused and and
those instances occurred in theoperating room while the
children were unconscious.
But how did that happen?
Because no surgeon is ever inan operating room by themselves,
(22:34):
right, but I mean usuallythere's multiple staff members
in the room working with thechild.
Dr Luskornik wrote oh, you haveto be patient and wait for the
opportunity.
So basically, he would waituntil his colleagues had their
backs turned and then he wouldjust slip his hand under the
(22:55):
sheet and day to day this iswhat he was doing, and I'm sure
he got a thrill knowing therewas a room full of people that
if they just turned around hewould get caught.
So this is the portrait of aman who had such depraved
proclivities that he had toconstantly push the bar to chase
that thrill.
Later on, some of hiscolleagues would say that they'd
(23:17):
worked with Joelle on hundredsof surgeries and never suspected
anything.
His diary entries began assporadic weekly entries and
burgeoned to multiple dailyentries, sometimes four times a
day, and the entries branchedout to include boys as well as
girls and even more trickysituations where he would pride
himself for abusing childrenunnoticed, with others in the
(23:40):
immediate vicinity.
So sick, he wrote disgustingletters to his victims,
addressing them by name.
He wrote I would go home andenjoy writing.
I did not use certain words atfirst, but then the despicable
began to escalate and I don'tknow some of this that I wrote
(24:02):
out from his diary.
I don't know if I can read it,but one disturbing entry
bemoaned the fact that he didn'thave a daughter to cuddle.
He talked about how she wouldalways have a dress, etc, etc
and sit on his lap.
I just can't read his notes.
(24:23):
Another entry notes abuse offunny and fancy the family's two
silver collies and this isn't atheory.
He actually wrote in hisjournal that he was multiplying
transgressive experiments, thathe was proud to break the law.
The squarnick's wife, marie,confronted him about his
activities.
She pointed out a cupboard thathe always kept locked in the
(24:44):
house and shouted you, pedophile, I do not want to know what's
in there, empty it out, gettreated, you're doing good.
She must have known, and we'lllearn a little bit more, but I
think she probably.
I mean she knew a lot more thanshe let on.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Why would she assume that he's being a pedophile?
Or she knew Later?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
she would claim she had no idea what was going on
right under her very nose.
Yet Joelle wrote in hisjournals that his wife had found
out that he was a pedophile.
Sure, too bad she didn't doanything about it.
It could have ended his reignof terror.
In the year 2000, joelle'ssister, annie the one who'd
walked in on the stuffed animalincident years earlier
confronted him.
She said that her 10-year-olddaughter told her that Joelle
(25:25):
had touched her.
Upon hearing this, joelle brokedown and, with crocodile tears,
he promised to seek treatment,saying he'd work for the rest of
his life to make amends.
It took her 25 years to comeforward.
When asked why she didn't go tothe police, she said that it
was because she thought herdaughter was the only victim and
that it was inconceivable toher that her brother was a
(25:47):
dangerous man.
She didn't know that he'dalready abused her other
daughter and had no intention ofstopping.
Annie also told mar that shealready knew.
What the fuck, marie, seriously, her response was.
Her response was well, all menlove little girls.
(26:07):
You just wanted that surgeon'ssweet ass salary and you didn't
care about anything else.
Even when Joelle and MarieFrance separated in 2004, she
still didn't go to the police,even though she knew what he'd
been up to, and in November 2004, french intelligence was
contacted by the FBI.
The FBI had been investigatingan international network
(26:28):
circulating child sexual abusematerial.
The investigation revealedthree payments using Los
Guarnics credit card to aRussian sexual abuse site on the
dark web.
Instead of raiding his house,the French police called Joelle
and they asked him to come downto the police station in the
next town over whenever he could, whenever he had a minute,
because after all, yeah, he wasa very busy man.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Oh sure, sure, oh sure.
Don't want to inconvenience you, but just have a couple
questions.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Investigators never searched his house, they didn't
search the hospital either.
They didn't interview any ofhis relatives or his colleagues.
And as Joelle went to thepolice station for a total of 25
minutes at the interview he wasasked five questions and he
stumbled through his answersabout experiencing a regretful,
quote-unquotequote phase afterhis marriage fell apart, and
(27:16):
then the next day he returned towork, continuing to care for
his pediatric patients.
How could this happen?
Because the French medicalsystem, like many, protected its
own.
There was no suspension, noinvestigation.
He just moved on.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
They were like we checked a box.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
We questioned him right in 2005, the law did catch
up to him for a small beat.
He was convicted of yeah, hewas convicted of possession of
child sexual abuse images, andhe was given a four-month
suspended sentence.
In france, the judicialauthority is legally required to
notify the national medicalcouncil to alert them about such
an offense, but in this case,for some reason, that did not
(27:58):
happen, so he went on for thenext 12 years to assault 50 more
victims.
Shame on you guys, shame.
Oh, okay, let's, let's do achart, deep breath.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Ready?
It's time for a chart note.
Let's do a chart note to changethe vibe for a little bit.
We need this chart note in ourlife.
Chart note thank God for you.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
So this chart note segment we're going to learn
about something that's happenedin medicine and healthcare
historically.
So shout out to Dr NicoleKrieger, a friend of the podcast
.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Who was like?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
did you know this?
And I was like I did not, andit's super uplifting.
So it's very quick.
But Martin Arthur Cooney, bornMichael Cohen 1869 to March 1st
1950, was an Americanobstetrician of German Jewish
descent, an advocate and pioneerof early neonatal technology
(29:16):
technology.
Cooney, also known as theincubator doctor, was best known
in medical circles and publicview for his amusement park
sideshow, the infantorium, inwhich visitors paid 25 cents to
view prematurely born babiesdisplayed in incubators.
What I know.
It doesn't sound like somethinggood, but yeah, hear me out.
So after allegedly apprenticingunder Pierre Constant Boudin,
(29:38):
an established Frenchobstetrician, in the 1890s,
cooney began exhibitingincubators at expositions and
fairgrounds in Europe and thenin America.
He's best known for hisInventorium at Coney Island, New
York.
During his active years atfairgrounds across America, it
was widely believed thatpremature babies were weaklings
who were unfit to survive intoadulthood.
(30:01):
Cooney was one of the firstadvocates for premature babies
and his infantoriums becamewidely credited with saving the
lives of over 6,500 prematurebabies.
He's considered one of thefirst pioneers of neonatal
technology.
So he basically took thesechicken incubators and put
babies in them and and wasbasically educating the public
(30:23):
because they didn't have, youknow, back in the late 1800s or
whatever.
They didn't have movies ortelevision or internet or any of
that right people went to theyou know, the local fairgrounds,
and so he was basically likeyou know, not only that, give me
some money, I'll show you thisbaby and guess what this baby's
going to survive, and also thatthe incubator was a great way to
(30:46):
keep them safe during that timeperiod, and so I mean we still
put them in those today in theNICUs.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Isn't that crazy yeah .
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I just thought that was really cool.
All right, the big old DodgeCounty fairs this week.
You think they're going to haveany?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
incubators Pay a quarter.
See a baby.
I would pay a quarter to see ababy yeah a quarter Geez.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Louise, what a steal.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Steal.
Okay, so back to this horrificcase.
We'll get through it, listeners, and then the next time I do a
case, it's going to belighthearted, I promise.
So in 2006, joelle was offereda fancy new position at a
hospital in Campolet as ahospital practitioner, where he
would work with Thierry Bonvelo,the president of the hospital's
medical committee.
Thierry had heard about thepedophilia case against
(31:41):
Laskornik and was deeplyconcerned.
He wrote a letter to thehospital's director and reported
him to the national and localorders of the French National
Order of Doctors.
They requested a copy of hiscriminal record and then came
back saying there was nothing toreport.
Oh sure.
So how is conviction forpossession of child sexual abuse
images?
Quote, unquote nothing.
Well, I'll tell you, the filingsystem of the council had a bit
of a backlog, and so the deathof the doctor's file had not
(32:03):
been updated to reveal hisrecent criminal convictions.
He was officially appointed tohis position on August 1st 2006.
And then, a few months later,the files were updated.
It was there in black and whitethat they had a convicted
pedophile working for them, butnobody wanted to do anything
about this unfortunate hire.
The resulting consensus from thecouncil was that ah well, he's
(32:25):
already here he can stay.
I mean, nobody's complained.
And of course, there was thatpesky shortage of doctors.
What's a little sexual deviantbehavior when the waiting list
for surgeons is so long?
Sex offense against childrenwas taken so lightly that they
didn't interfere with DrLusquarnick's promotion to the
local medical board.
(32:46):
Shortly after this discovery,the hospital ultimately shut
down in 2008 due to a shortageof doctors.
So he moved on to a hospital inwestern France.
Even though the administratorsof this hospital acknowledged
his criminal history, theyprioritized the shortages of
doctors over his evil.
Let me say that again, becauseI think I said evil, evil
(33:08):
propensities.
The director noted that Joëlwas very kind and that, since no
physical insult had taken placeto their knowledge, no
restrictions were placed on himat all.
He was welcome to the team.
Later, the French press wouldrefer to this as a structural
flaw.
But is it a structural failingor is it enabling abuse?
(33:28):
The director went on to say wecan't imagine a predator could
hide beneath a white coat.
Well, therein lies your problempeople.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Well, believe it because he was already convicted
.
Hello Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
So Dr Liskornik transferred to the clinic in
Jean-Jacques and moved therealone Because he and his wife
had been separated.
For a few years he continued tosupport her financially and
then he would return to staywith her and the boys several
times a year.
The rest of the time he wasreported to live a solitary
existence and sink deeper anddeeper into his sick world.
He wrote in his diary that hegrieved the loss of his family
(34:06):
and friends, saying nothing willbe left for me, but I will
embrace my pedophilia and I willembrace it for the rest of my
life.
This is when he stopped washinghimself or cleaning his home.
He pretended to be normal whenhe was at the hospital, but the
chasm between his professionaland personal life widened
considerably during this time.
He began drinking a lot.
(34:26):
Some reports said he wasdrinking up to a liter of
whiskey a day.
Jeez.
Eventually he just lay ablanket in the middle of the
living room and slept on that,letting the rest of the house go
to rot.
Occasionally he would walkaround naked in his garden, as
we know, behind thatteensy-tinesy fence.
Mold covered the walls andbodily fluids were found all
(34:49):
over his diaries as well oh God,over time the windows of his
house darkened with grime untilthe sun was eventually totally
blocked out.
According to his colleagues,they didn't notice anything was
wrong at the time.
Some even said that he seemedin control, not someone who was
going off the rails at all.
Nurses, of course, noticed hissmell, but since he was a
(35:10):
surgeon, they ignored his stenchbecause authority was absolute
and second only to God.
Here's a diary entry from 9th ofMay 2013, that he made at 4.30
pm in the living room of hishouse.
I am out of money, it israining, I've got a cold and a
cough, I am old and tired, Idrink too much, but my little
(35:31):
Veronique is always there,attentive to my distress.
My beloved little girl snuggledup against my nude body.
She was his favorite doll.
She was the size of afive-year-old child and was
always dressed in variousprincess gowns.
He even installed what thecourts refer to as a replica of
female sex organ on the doll.
It seemed that his dolls hadbegun to replace his real-life
(35:54):
victims at this point, becausethe instances of abuse dwindled
around this time.
According to his journalentries, that is until 2017,
when he assaulted thesix-year-old daughter of his
neighbor through the fence.
As I mentioned in the beginning.
He was 66 years old at the timeand nearing retirement.
After the girl's parentsreported the incident to the
police, an investigation wasinitiated.
(36:15):
He was arrested and the housewas searched.
I described what they found,but I should add they found a
box full of children's toys andunderwear, and under Joelle's
mattress they found a collectionof hard drives.
God bless the poor investigatorwho was tasked with looking
through those.
For real I know you can't paypeople enough.
Leskornik knew it was wrongbecause there was a note to his
(36:38):
family written on top of thepile of drives instructing them
to destroy them without watching.
All in all, investigatorsremoved 78 items from his home,
including 27 external harddrives, nine USB sticks, a
camera, three computers, 131porn DVDs, 22 dolls and a
(36:58):
boatload of sex toys and wigs.
An investigator began analyzingthe hard drives immediately.
Over the next few years, all ofthose drives would come to
reveal more than 300,000 photosand videos featuring child sex
abuse.
Two of the hard drives werededicated to material exclusive
of his own exploits on his ownnieces.
(37:19):
The evidence included photos ofhimself documenting his
exploits that proved that he wasalso creating his own porn and
participating in the crimes.
There were documents,spreadsheets and, of course, the
diaries, which contained 3,600separate notes detailing the
acts of abuse carried outagainst children, mostly at his
various hospitals.
The spreadsheets listedhundreds of victims' names,
(37:41):
dates of birth and addresses.
He even had files labeled gorewhich had images of piles of
corpses, decapitations, tortureand animal abuse in them.
Those who were tasked withgoing through this never wholly
recovered.
The lead investigator was puton sick leave for three years.
Imagine the hundreds andhundreds of victims across 30
(38:03):
years.
Some of these children were asyoung as one years of age, so by
the time anyone discovered whathappened to them, they would be
at least 31 years old.
One victim known as Marie, nowin her 30s, discovered her name
and age 10 years old in hisrecords, after forgetting the
event.
Imagine Soon, after his housewas searched, lusquarnock
(38:23):
appeared before a judge with acourt-appointed lawyer and
attended what became known asthe family trial to account for
his confessions of abuse againsthis own family.
There he described himself as acold person who has trouble
feeling things.
Laskronic denied everything,but as the evidence was
presented, including diaryentries that he himself had
written describing his crimes indetail, he eventually admitted
(38:44):
to everything.
Bit by bit, he acknowledgedthat he was attracted to
children, mainly to little girlsaround the ages of 9 and 10,
because they were easier toseduce.
He admitted to sexuallyassaulting his niece and two
other children who were familyfriends in the 1980s, and his
niece, fanny, was his firstvictim.
She was 43 years old when shetestified at this trial.
(39:06):
She testified that she carriedthe guilt of not having said
something at the time that couldhave stopped him from abusing
all these other children.
Not on you, fanny.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
This was not on you, no no, no, I was just thinking
that your mom and your auntieknew and they did nothing.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
This was not on.
You bless your heart the adultsshould have done something fanny
yeah, as a result of theconfessions, he was convicted of
the sexual abuse of four girlshis six-year-old neighbor, a
four-year-old patient and twonieces.
His nieces were just four yearsold when he started to abuse
them.
He was sentenced to 15 years inprison.
(39:44):
And I think they did this first.
They did like the easylow-hanging fruitanging fruit,
like okay, we can definitely gethim on this and get him out of
the way so he doesn't offendagain, and then now we're going
to go after all of the othersand now we can continue our
investigation and really nailhim to the board with more
concrete evidence.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, but at least we know you're put away right now.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, you're re-offending.
So while he sat in his cell,they got to work identifying
many victims detailed in hisdiaries and gathering evidence.
Once the victims wereidentified, investigators had
the horrible task of contactingthem and, as I said, these
victims were in their 30s and40s by this point.
A lot of them had lived theirentire lives with no idea that
they'd even been assaulted.
Most of them didn't evenrecognize liskornik's name,
(40:27):
which is understandable.
I mean, he'd been their surgeonfor a day or two when they were
children, been assaulted.
Most of them didn't evenrecognize Laskornik's name,
which is understandable.
I mean, he'd been their surgeonfor a day or two when they were
children.
So now on to the trial.
In February 2025, the trialbegan in Vannes, the most
significant child sexual abusecase in France.
What traumatized me the most,the police said a farmer on a
stand when he was summoned tothe police station, he thought
(40:50):
it was because he was guilty ofsomething, like everyone else in
such situations.
In reality, it was worse, herecalled.
I learned I was a victim.
In a 20-minute hearing,including the formalities, a
police officer told him he'dbeen raped under anesthetic in
the operating theater some 30years earlier.
On an early winter morning in2020, the farmer found himself
(41:11):
alone in this police station'sparking lot.
His life smashed in two Infront of the court, he tried not
to break down.
It turned me upside down.
He managed to whisper.
He glanced at his wife seatedin the front row, and she burst
into tears for both of them.
Liskwarnik admitted to the vastmajority of the 299 rapes and
assaults committed between 1989and 2014.
(41:34):
He confessed to abusing his owngranddaughter in court,
creating further shock.
One victim, a woman namedCeline Matteau, was told by the
police that this happened to herAt just seven years old.
She'd been rushed to thehospital with acute appendicitis
.
Shortly after the operation,she underwent a significant
change.
She began cutting her hair andswapping her dresses for pants.
(41:55):
She suffered from intimacyissues for many years.
She now believes it was becauseof the abuse.
Most victims had no idea theywere abused because often they
were unconscious when ithappened.
Some say it had a detrimentalimpact on them, but they
couldn't pinpoint exactly whathappened.
Some were fine and had no idea.
All victims who were identifiedhad the awful opportunity to
(42:17):
read the diary entry thatdescribed what had happened to
them.
Celine refused, but noteveryone did.
I can't imagine this.
I don't know what I would do inthis situation.
What would you do, amanda?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I have no idea.
I, I don't think, I would wantto know, yeah it's a horrible
because, like, there's a part ofyou that does want to know what
exactly happened to you becauseit happened to you, but also
once you know that you can neverunknow that yeah and and think
(42:51):
about these kids, these babieslike that happened to me when I
was one year old.
I mean it's horrible, no matterwhat age they are.
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Amelie levisseau found out the terrible news at
the age of 43.
She read an article in herlocal newspaper about the family
trial and contacted her GP whochecked her medical records and
saw that Le Squarnick hadremoved her appendix in 1991.
She began seeing a therapistand stated that suppressed
(43:27):
memories resurfaced, she told alocal newspaper.
In a few seconds I was back tobeing nine years old again in
the recovery room of the clinic.
Everything came back thefeelings, the smells, the cold,
the heat, the rape, all of it,oh my God.
A young boy named Matisse wasadmitted to a hospital with
appendicitis in June of 2007.
(43:49):
His grandparents remember himas a happy child at first and
very charming.
After he was discharged fromthe hospital following an
overnight stay, he began tochange.
He stopped being happy andbecame aggressive with everyone,
and as a teenager he distancedhimself from his family and
started using drugs.
He was in and out of rehab.
11 years after his hospital stay.
Police arrived at his door andtold him that he had been
(44:12):
mentioned in Liskwarnik'sdiaries.
They read an excerpt aloud tohim.
His grandmother said it was asif the sky fell on his head.
They tried to support him, buthe refused to talk about it.
Two years later, matisse diedof an overdose at the age of 24.
His grandparents blamed theabuse Absolutely.
(44:32):
In May 2025, after a month-longtrial that included hundreds of
plaintiffs, 65 lawyers andalmost 500 journalists, joelle
Esquenic was sentenced to 20years in prison.
The maximum penalty was atleast two-thirds of the sentence
required before eligible forparole.
So he could be out in 15 yearsdoing that.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
I'm like can we do 20 plus the 15 he was already in
for, At least Guys.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Anyone?
Yeah, if he can commit 299rapes in 25 years without
detection, what does that sayabout our system?
And investigators think there'seven more than 400 victims.
They just didn't have enoughevidence or sufficient
information to identify all ofthem.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
And also, just because he's sitting in jail
doesn't mean he's rehabbing Like.
These are deep-rooted issues.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
So once he gets out, we're just going to expect that
that yeah he's like I, I will bethis person until I die.
He said it himself in hisdiaries and so, yeah, let's let
him out of jail.
Guys, and this has such a broadreach.
It's not just the children andtheir families tragedy.
He'll be killed in prison,honestly.
Yeah, one can help I meanhonestly, I'm usually I don't
(45:53):
know how I feel about the deathpenalty, but in this case this
guy doesn't.
We shouldn't be keeping himalive.
What's he here for Nothing?
To add to all of this,tragically, a French lawyer who
defended him died in an apparentsuicide recently.
I mean interesting.
(46:16):
Imagine the impact that thishaving to defend someone like
this.
No, and this was recently.
A prosecutor made anannouncement on wednesday, july
9th, and we're recording thisthe 14th.
An article from lamont newsstates maxime tessier, 34,
defended Lascornic, 74, whoconfessed that his child was
(46:36):
sexually assaulting or raping298 patients between 89 and 14,
most of them children.
Everything points to suicide.
Frédéric Taillet, chiefprosecutor in the western French
city of Rennes, said of thelawyer's death, adding that an
investigation had started.
Tessier, a father of two youngchildren, had a very high regard
(46:56):
for justice and was very, verydemanding towards himself.
I mean, he probably just was soconflicted over having to
defend somebody like this thatwould be the worst job yeah, and
that quote was from katherineglon.
His associate, tessier, was oneof two lawyers defending
lusquarnick, one of the most and, as we talked about infamous
(47:18):
sex predators, a prosecutor andanother prosecutor in the case
referred to the former doctor asthe devil dressed in a white
coat.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
I mean that's the understatement of the year he's
more than a devil, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
So france's medical council is suing itself at least
, that's at least admittingtheir failure and pledging
reform.
But you know what reputationand inaction enabled the
predator.
So it's too little, too late,if you ask me.
Jo Joel Luskornik may be behindbars, but he shattered hundreds
and hundreds of lives.
This wasn't an isolated crime.
(47:55):
It was a tragedy ofinstitutional neglect as well.
So if this episode wasdifficult to hear, you're not
alone.
We're going to includeinternational support resources
in the show notes for survivorsof medical abuse and sexual
violence.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Jenna, jenna.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Good job getting through that horrific tale.
Thank, you.
And while that is so disgustingand horrible to uncover, it is
important.
It is important.
Yeah, I mean this isn't.
I can't believe this is arecent.
This is so recent.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
This sounds like something that happened maybe in
the 20s or maybe in the 1800s.
Right, they're just wrappingthis up now, like a couple weeks
ago.
What the hell?
And it's not just the, I mean,it's not because it's france,
it's it's everywhere, you know,oh we have a shortage of doctors
.
We couldn't possibly questionthe doctor of a four-year-old,
and the four-year-olds don'teven have the language or the
(48:52):
understanding to be able to comeforward.
And then, if they'reunconscious, what the hell I
mean?
Speaker 2 (48:59):
it's disgusting that poor gal that after she learned
that all the memories cameflooding back, like her brain
just suppressed them until itwas said out loud, and then
everything came back.
I mean, obviously somethingthem until it was said out loud
and then everything came back.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
I mean, obviously something happened and it was
almost like she was trying toprotect herself by cutting her
hair and wearing pants and likeI mean oh yeah, for sure your
hair and wearing pants, ifthat's that's what you want to
do, but it was like a suddenchange but more like a
protective, yeah measure afterher.
Yeah, isn't that crazy?
What I don't know?
Speaker 2 (49:30):
that's terrible like if I don't look like a girl,
then maybe a man won't want todo that to me.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, oh, thisis so sad, so sad, so I was just
thinking okay, wait, so he gothow many years?
20 it was 15, but then he got20 yeah and it was 74, so I mean
, hopefully he'll at least bedead.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah.
Or killed he's going to have tobe in solitary because I don't
know If there's ever prisonjustice anywhere, bring it.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
I mean I'm sorry, I should say that we're not
condoning murder.
We're just saying.
Typically, people who offendagainst children are often
innocent.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
If you happen to slip on a banana peel, a trail of
banana peels on the way to thecanteen.
God forbid, god forbid, yeah,yeah, oopsie, poopsie.
Worst things could happen.
I'm just saying, yeah, Iwouldn't be losing sleep.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
In fact, I'd probably sleep a bit better knowing that
, you know, I would just likealso want that house torn down.
Yeah, I wouldn't even want tolive by that house.
Right, it's disgusting.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Well, and you know what, Thank God, they said
something they could have toldtheir little girl like oh you
didn't see what you thought yousaw.
I mean, it's easy to brush kidsoff sometimes, you know, and it
seems like probably a lot ofpeople did, which is why this
lasted so long.
Probably a lot of people did,which is why this lasted so long
.
Okay, so this week's medicalmishap was recommended by Meemum
(50:56):
.
Shout out to Jillian.
As some of you may know, I grewup in Dahran, saudi Arabia,
where my father, the country'sfirst audiologist, established
the kingdom's first speech andhearing clinics.
And now patients from all overthe Middle East come for ENT and
audiology care and there's anentire hospital in Riyadh
dedicated just for cochlearimplant patients.
(51:17):
Fun fact hearing loss,especially congenital
sensorineural hearing loss, ismore common in Saudi Arabia than
in many countries, mostly dueto high rates of consanguinity,
which is close relative marriage.
Studies show that children fromsuch marriages have a three and
a half times greater risk ofcongenital hearing loss,
according to WHO, the WorldHealth Organization.
(51:39):
Okay, so back to me.
I was an itchy child, alwayspolishing my nose and leaving
soggy tissues in my wake.
My dad took me to see hisfriend Dr Wiley, an American ENT
specialist with a specialty inallergies who worked at the same
hospital as my dad.
Dr Wiley was so funny I lovegoing to visit His silly dad.
(52:00):
Jokes always made me laugh.
Dr Wiley treated my youngersister with allergy injections
for about a year before I wentto see him Now my sister used to
have to get up at some unholyhour like six in the morning
before school to get her shotsfor months on end.
So when it was suggested thatmaybe I needed shots too, I did
a little pre-work before myscratch test.
(52:21):
So let's keep in mind that thiswas the mid 1980s and we didn't
have internet back then andthere was no Google machine.
So word of mouth waspractically the only way to
learn things, unless it wasprinted in an encyclopedia and
you had the right volume orletter to consult.
So I learned through theelementary grapevine that you
could cheat the test by takingTylenol and antihistamines
(52:44):
before you go in for yourscratch test.
Turns out that must have beentrue because it worked.
Still, dr Wiley must have beena bit puzzled because I had the
constant rhinitis, chronic puffyeyes and hyponasal speech of a
mouth breather.
A nasal exam confirmed hissuspicions.
I had nasal polyps and theyneeded to be removed so that I
(53:04):
could breathe through my nose.
It was to be a minor in-officeprocedure.
My mom picked me up afterschool one day and we headed to
his office.
The mood was jokey and light.
A big brown bottle sat on thetray table near Dr Wiley's stool
.
It had one of those labels onit that you print yourself with
those little label makers, andin the old days the letters were
(53:25):
raised.
I remember it to this day.
The bottle was brown and had atube that ended in a puffer bulb
like a vintage perfume spraybottle, and the label clearly
read cocaine.
I joked with my mom who satacross from my exam chair Look,
mom, I'm about to snort cocainein front of you.
I can't wait.
We all had a chuckle as Dr Wileyinserted a tube attached to the
(53:46):
bottle and instructed me tosnort once, twice on each side.
After a few nose-tinglingminutes he pulled out what
looked like a metal whisk butwith just one wire loop on it.
A flip of his eye mirror and hewas quickly spelunking in my
nasal cavity, still spinning thedad jokes.
He quickly cinched the wireloop around a polyp and
(54:07):
tightened it.
He told me to take a deepbreath and hold it, and jerked
his hand back, ripping what feltlike my brain out in the
process.
Blood started pouring out of mynose and my face felt like it
exploded.
I glanced at my mother, whoseface had turned white.
She looked about ready to faint.
Dr Wiley, who was now more likeDr Evil in my mind, mopped me
(54:29):
up and comforted my mother.
My face was streaming withtears.
Eventually, when my sobssettled down, the Joker wheeled
towards me with a devil's whiskpointed at my face.
I think I missed some.
He teased Let me have a lastlittle peek.
I laughed until I realized hewasn't joking and he was
actually going back for more.
I kicked him and punched hisarm out of the way.
(54:50):
He got the hint and I got tokeep my remaining polyps to this
day.
Today this procedure istypically performed under
general anesthesia and I havePTSD about anything going up my
nose.
Imagine my suffering with allthe COVID swabs we've had to
take in the last five years.
So thanks, mom, for bringing upthat past trauma.
(55:13):
You're welcome listeners, ohgosh.
So due to technicaldifficulties, I'm going to
assume Amanda's laughing likecrazy at my little story here
and I think we're going to hearabout a nefarious nurse next
week, listeners, so you need tostay tuned.
(55:35):
You put it on here.
I don't see it.
Oh, oh, okay, okay, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So next week, amanda's going tobe covering a nefarious nurse,
I think, and she says it's adoozy.
This nurse's ambition was tohave killed more people helpless
(56:04):
people than any other man orwoman who ever lived.
Oh evil.
I can't wait to learn moreabout that, but meanwhile, don't
miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts, for stories thatshock, intrigue and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at DoctoringTheTruth,
at Buzzsproutcom, or email usyour story ideas and medical
mishaps at DoctoringTheTruth atgmail.
(56:25):
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Don't forget to download, rateand review so we can bring you
more content next week.
Until then, stay safe and staysuspicious.
(56:47):
Bye.
amanda jenna, hey, oh , how you doing a bit under the
weather, yeah yeah, just alittle summer bug situation
going on here not sure, I'msorry, but yeah, so we're taking
it easy yeah, how you doinggood, I'm good.
(00:22):
Actually, I'm gonna be a lotbetter when this episode is over
.
Because I'm doing this episode,because I feel like it's really
important to digger, but thisguy's an absolute blight on
humanity, like he does notdeserve to exist, and so I'm.
It's so depressing, it'sprobably the worst, most awful
(00:42):
thing I've ever talked about.
So, yeah, I'm really selling it.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It's gonna be hard it's gonna be a hard it's gonna
be one of those that's like thisis really shitty to discuss,
but like important to discussbecause these things are
happening and and this is acurrent case right, it is
current, like he had hissentencing a couple weeks ago
and, uh, we'll see what youthink about that towards the end
(01:11):
, so we'll probably bedisappointed, I suppose
Speaker 1 (01:15):
yeah, we usually are with sentencing guys, we're
usually disappointed right so Imean I guess you know, take,
take a little time for you,Amanda, I'll do the story.
I know you're not feeling well.
Put it on mute because there'sno banter that's possible during
this.
This guy is such a despicablehuman being and in fact I'm
(01:38):
going to entitle the episodeDespicable.
Dr Skwarnick Quote I am apedophile and I'm very happy
about it.
End quote.
And I wish I could just end itthere because that says it all.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I was going to say that that's that probably
encapsulate all of thedisgustingness you're going to
unfold.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Before we get into that, though, I will say I've
managed to get through this andkeep my spirit up by partaking
of one of our sponsors'beverages called Shimmerwood.
Yeah, oh, you tried.
(02:20):
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If you just prefer just thathempy, I should try that,
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like licking a rope, I don'tknow.
(03:04):
That's not a good sell for thisproduct, but I'm sure it's
delicious.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Razz Lime sounds good to me.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, razz Lime Ginger Rum is really good.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Oh, if, you heard that cough, that one wasn't even
me, that was my dog.
She's still sick too, she gotbronchitis.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Honey Raven, feel better, sister, shit.
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Does people say w's anymore?
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Speaker 1 (03:38):
We're at the age we say the w's for an exclusive 30
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stay suspicious.
All right.
The resources for this episodeprime.
One of the primary resources.
(04:00):
I have to shout out this otherpodcast called Red Handed.
They're wonderful, a couple of.
English ladies and they are justI just could listen to their
accents all day long but alsothey do really thorough research
and somehow they got a hold ofsome stuff that I wasn't willing
to pay for.
So you know, I wasn't willingto pay for Le Monde subscription
(04:22):
in France, because this, thistakes place in France.
So I am using a lot of theinformation from their episode
number 405, the pedophilediaries Dr Joelle Lesquarnak,
and then, of course, my friendWikipedia.
There's a bunch of differentnews articles, and so those will
be listed on our show notes.
I can't state the triggerwarnings enough.
(04:45):
This is going to be horrific.
People.
If you are at all triggered bysuicide, child sexual abuse,
assault, including rape, bewarned.
Listen to our you know, backlog,listen to Red Handed, but not
the, not episode 405, becausethey go into quite a lot of
detail.
I'm not going to go into awhole lot of detail, but just
(05:08):
the overview alone is very, very, very awful and devastating.
And again, I bring this upbecause this is a trusted
surgeon who got away with thisfor 30 years and has only just
come to justice, and some mayquestion whether or not he
actually came to justice.
So I'm bringing it up because Ithink it's important for us to
(05:28):
know, but not because I take anywell pleasure, no, and in this
at all, and I I'm reallydreading talking about it, but I
think it's important.
So, oh, deep breath, little zenmoment.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And do a little line of you got this and you're doing
important work and we're allgoing to buckle up and get our
barf bags.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Listen.
Yeah, my next episode.
I've got to do somethinglighthearted.
I don't know what that would bein our genre, but we'll find
something.
So what happens when the persontrusted to heal is secretly
harming the most vulnerable?
Tonight on well, and it may bethe daytime when you're
listening, but on doctor and thetruth, I was getting very like
(06:17):
moody.
Uh, as I was writing thistonight, I'm doctoring the truth
.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
She was like a 60 minutes.
She was like tonight ondoctoring the truth.
She was like a 60 minutes.
She was like tonight ondoctoring the truth we are going
to uncover this fuckinghorrible shit oh god, he's
horrible.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
The disturbing saga behind dr joelle lescornec, a
respected frenchgastrointestinal surgeon who
preyed on children for decades,hiding in plain sight.
It all began when asix-year-old's brave words
shattered the quiet facade, andit's quite interesting that I
lose my voice as I'm beginningthis, because I think even my
(06:51):
voice is wary of talking aboutthis fool.
Okay, a little liquidrefreshment, okay.
In April 2017, jean-jacques,france, a young couple named
Jerome and Laura had just movedinto town.
Jean-jacques, france, a youngcouple named Jerome and Laura
had just moved into town.
Jean-jacques was a small town insouthwestern France, the kind
(07:11):
of town where everyone was up ineveryone else's business, and
immediately upon moving in, thecouple noticed that their
neighbor, a 66-year-old surgeon,was somewhat unusual.
His house was disgusting tostart, and they could hear him
playing classical music allnight, every night, until the
early hours of the morning.
The windows on his house wereso dirty and grimy that you
(07:33):
couldn't even see through themand, to make matters worse, they
would occasionally spot thisman walking around his garden.
Completely starkers, that'sright, listeners.
This is another story of a manwho enjoys walking around in his
birthday suit.
Oh, what the fuck, that's right, listeners.
This is another story of a manwho enjoys walking around in his
birthday suit.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That's the only comedic relief we're gonna get.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Speaking of comedic relief, be sure to listen to
episode 20 about Rick VanTurdbucket Thiel, where
apparently this is a thing, butunfortunately, in this scenario,
the fence was very short, andso Jerome and Laura, having had
kids at the time in the house,weren't happy about this.
Strangely, they noticed thatwhen they ran into him on the
(08:16):
street in public, he seemedpretty normal.
But I find that even moredisturbing the fact that a man
like this, who will learn who heis, can sometimes seem normal.
Right, that's so scary.
Yeah, they thought he waspolite, respectable and harmless
enough.
That was until april 24th 2017,when jerome and his young
(08:37):
daughter bumped into the surgeonas they were coming home from a
walk.
The surgeon pointed his fingerin the young girl's face and
waggled it back and forth as ifto warn her no, no, no.
Understandably, the childseemed pretty freaked out and
asked her dad if she could goinside, and of course, he said
go inside.
And when he followed her intothe house, his life would never
(09:00):
be the same.
His daughter turned to him andasked if I tell you something,
will you promise not to get mad?
No, jerome said of course, andthen the girl told him what.
No father or anyone would wantto hear.
That man is a strange man.
She said that man showed me hiswilly and she said she'd not
(09:24):
wanted to tell anyone about itbefore because she was worried
that she might go to prison.
Bless her little six-year-oldheart.
She went on to say that theprevious saturday she'd been
playing with her brother in thegarden.
The man next door beckoned herover to the fence, exposed
himself to her and asked her totouch him.
When he refused, he reachedthrough the fence and touched
(09:50):
her with his fingers.
As soon as he heard thishorrible news, jerome called the
police.
Thank goodness Good, dad Right.
The police raided his houseInside.
It was filthy in every sense ofthe word.
Under the floorboards thepolice found a collection of
more than 70 life-sized dolls.
Some were a few feet tall andsome had been rudely modified
(10:12):
with sex toys.
Some were chained and bound.
But this was just the tip ofthe iceberg.
In the living room,investigators found a catalog of
horror.
They found crates of notebooksdetailing his abuses, with names
, dates and ages of the victims.
(10:36):
Later the media began to referto these notebooks and friends
as Les Coins Noirs or the BlackNotebooks.
These were the handwrittenaccounts of the abuses.
All of the victims heperpetrated against were
children who had been in hiscare.
Investigators also found over300,000 child sexual abuse
(10:56):
images.
In total, there were 299victims over 30 years.
The abuses were carried out at12 different clinics and
hospitals across northwestFrance, all under the guise of
medical examinations.
Perhaps more shocking was thisman's pride in the atrocities
(11:17):
that he had been committing.
One such comment in his diariesread I am a pedophile and
always will be.
Here's another disgusting quotefrom his journal.
While smoking my morningcigarette, I reflected on the
fact that I am a big pervert, avoyeur, a sadist, a masochist, a
(11:38):
fetishist and a pedophile allrolled into one, and I am very
happy about it.
What the frick?
There were even twisted loveletters to his victims.
Some of them were as young asone year of age and I just
couldn't bring myself to readthose quotes.
(11:59):
They were so painfully horrific.
Many pages in his diaryexpressed his frustration that
his family didn't understand hisquote.
Lifestyle end quote.
Oh, no, kidding, nobody doesdude.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
It's not a lifestyle you sicko.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Right.
He also expressed his beliefthat he was getting away, his
disbelief sorry that he wasgetting away with what he was
doing and that he'd managed todo this for so long.
Because after all, dearlisteners, this man had been
convicted in 2005, yet stillsomehow managed to be allowed to
(12:38):
continue working with childrenfor another 13 years after his
conviction but more on thatlater.
It should be noted that thesecrimes weren't impulsive acts.
They were methodical,premeditated and meticulously
recorded in his vice-filledlogbook of horror.
Joel Laskwarnik was born onDecember 3, 1950, in Paris, to
(13:03):
his hard-working parents, acarpenter and a nanny.
He had two siblings and was theoldest.
This meant that he felt immensepressure to succeed from an
early age.
So at the age of 10, he decidedhe wanted to become a surgeon.
Now, I'm not saying surgeonsare likely to be psychopaths,
(13:25):
but I am saying a lot ofpsychopaths are likely to be
surgeons.
Joël was a quiet child whoenjoyed being alone with his
books and classic records forcompany.
He kept detailed written listsof his collections, not just of
his books and vinyl, but ofoperas that he had seen, films
he had watched and cities he hadvisited.
(13:45):
But there was something a bitoff when his grandfather died
and he visited the mortuary.
He later said I knew what itmeant, but I didn't feel any
emotion.
I didn't feel anything, eventhough it was my grandfather.
Red flag, maybe, yeah, maybe.
(14:06):
Laskornik graduated frommedical school in Nantes in 1983
.
He worked in Luxe, vence,lorient, kimperley and finally
Jean-Jacques until 2017.
Laskornik specialized inabdominal issues like
appendicitis, hernias andgastrointestinal surgery.
(14:28):
He operated on both childrenand adults.
Early in his career he begandating a young nursing assistant
named Marie France.
Later he secured a job as asurgeon at a clinic in Vannes
and the two of them moved theretogether, leading a comfortable
life.
They went on to have three boystogether and an active social
(14:52):
life.
They went on lavish holidays toItaly and other places in
Europe and they lived in amassive mansion on a giant hill,
complete with a grand piano inthe lounge.
As a busy surgeon, laskwarnikwas not around much for his kids
, but when he was, he would takehis boys to museums and he
encouraged them to take musiclessons.
The children do say theyremember their childhood as
happy Happy, that is, untiltheir grandfather was around.
(15:16):
The paternal grandfather, josephLaskwarnik, was Joël's father.
I already mentioned he was acarpenter, but when he was 40
years old.
While commuting into the cityfor work, joseph met a
19-year-old man named ChristianDubois.
They struck up a friendshipduring their morning commutes on
the train and eventually, whenJoseph lost his job, christian
(15:37):
helped him get a new one at thebank where Christian worked, and
over the years Christian becamepart of the family.
He even went on family holidays.
One of these holidays, joelle'ssister walked in on Joseph, her
dad and Christian playing witha stuffed animal which had been
taken from DuBois' stuffedanimal collection.
When she walked in, they lookedworked up and embarrassed and
(16:03):
they shouted at her to close thedoor.
Years later, when Joelle'smother died, christian moved in
with the with a family.
Listeners will have to decidefor themselves what they think
about that.
Suspish, though, am I right?
Years later, when joelle hadhis children, they nicknamed
their grandfather joseph grandpamaniac.
I mean mean, if you know.
You know.
(16:23):
Years later, the kids sharedthat they overheard Joseph
asking their mother to recordporn films for him off the
television.
So this grandpa porn addict ranhis household with an absolute
iron fist.
When the boys were at Joseph'shouse, they were never allowed
to shower or set foot in thedining room.
They were also not allowed outinto grandpa's hut.
(16:44):
The hut was a wooden shed thatstood at the bottom of the
garden.
Joseph would often lock himselfaway for hours.
Nobody was allowed in, exceptfor one of his three grandsons,
fabian.
Unfortunately, it was therethat Joseph sexually abused his
grandson Fabian for years.
Fabian later testified that hewas between five and nine years
old and it happened everywherein the kitchen, in front of the
(17:06):
TV, in the shed.
One day he desperately told thefamily friend, christian Dubois
, about his grandfather flashinghim, touching him and forcing
him to give oral sex.
Dubois actually confrontedJoseph about what was going on
and Joseph then apparently brokedown, saying that he'd been
raped by a priest when he was achild and that's why he was
(17:28):
doing what he was doing now.
He swore to Dubois that hewould change and he would never
do it again.
Interestingly, to this day Joëldenies ever being abused by his
father.
Also interesting is Jo Joeltestified he wasn't always a
pedophile.
He claims to have operated onchildren for years and even
(17:51):
worked on a pediatric board forsix months and never felt any
attraction or desire at all.
But in 1985, in his own words,he transferred his sexuality.
That started with hisfive-year-old niece, fanny.
He claimed that she was veryaffectionate towards him and
would sit in his lap and atfirst it disturbed him, but then
(18:11):
his thoughts turned sexual, soI guess it's all the
five-year-old's fault, right?
I mean, I feel like vomiting.
This is when the squirterconsiders that he was a
pedophile.
That's when he discovered it.
He started making what he callsunfortunate gestures and then
soon in his black notebooks hechronicled the sexual abuse
(18:31):
perpetrated in nauseating detail.
He wrote that before Fanny Inever would have had such an
idea.
Before that I had a normal life, I made love with my wife, I
had nothing to write about.
But after this instance hebegan writing and it consumed
him completely.
I don't understand what canlead someone who in other ways
(18:52):
is attracted to adults to take apath where they engage with
child sex abuse images.
It's just mind-boggling.
Some people commented thatperhaps it went hand in hand
with a kind of God complex frombeing a surgeon, which for the
majority of surgeons isn'tapplicable.
But for him it's an interestingtheory because he does most of
his offending in hospitals andso about that he came across as
(19:17):
quiet and reserved and mostpeople just thought a competent
surgeon.
He was able to walk around inhis white coat with impunity and
, as we've talked about beforein this podcast, the children
and the elderly unfortunatelyfall victim to perpetrators like
these in institutions becausenobody believes them or they're
too scared to speak out.
We need to do more for ourvulnerable populations.
(19:40):
Anyway, lusquarnock startedrecording his abuses, which
occurred not just in thehospitals he worked in, but he
was also absolutely content todo this to children that he knew
and who were related to him,and he referred to all of this
revoltingly as his sex life.
On the one hand, he's awell-to-do surgeon, husband,
(20:02):
father, thriving, advancing inhis career, living in his
massive mansion, attendingglossy parties Like he's in the
upper echelon of society at thispoint, and on the other hand,
you have the abuser, who'sdescending deeper and deeper
into depravity with the kind ofabuse he's engaging in.
Joel later wrote in hisnotebook I no longer examine
(20:23):
young patients.
I looked at them with the eyesof a pedophile.
Every gesture took on a sexualconnotation.
Over the years, the hospitalsand clinics that he worked in
became hunting grounds.
Walking through the halls, hewould look for children who were
alone in their rooms.
He was so crafty he would neverask the nurse to leave the room
because he was cautious aboutthe abuse that he carried out.
(20:44):
He didn't want to get caught.
He was so crafty he would neverask the nurse to leave the room
because he was cautious aboutthe abuse that he carried out.
He didn't want to get caught.
He was careful not to lingertoo long so that he would draw
too much attention to himself.
He wrote in his diaries that hewould only move on a child when
he knew the coast was clear.
He would step into the room andsay one of his phrases like
I've come to see if your tummyhurts or does it burn when you
pee.
And then Skornik would act asif he was carrying out a medical
(21:08):
exam, exposing a child's lowerbody and abusing them.
If he were ever caught by anurse or anyone else which was
rare but sometimes did happen hewould quickly pull up the
sheets and carry on like nothingwas amiss.
He never left any marks and hewas careful never to cause too
much physical pain.
If he felt any resistance orsuspicion he would stop.
(21:29):
But that rarely happened.
The position of authority that adoctor in a white coat has over
a child on their own cannot beoverstated.
He wrote in his diaries thatthe advantage of girls between
three and ten is that you cantouch them without asking too
many questions.
I think I'm gonna vomit andburst into tears.
This is so horrible.
(21:51):
I thought I could talk aboutthis without losing it, but I
don't know close guys.
I think this that was one ofthe most disgusting sentences
that has ever been said out loud, and certainly one for me, and
that's horrible.
I just want listeners to know.
I'm really sorry, but can youbelieve this is happening in
this day and age?
(22:12):
So most of his abuses werecarried out on that population,
but there were older childrenthat he also abused and and
those instances occurred in theoperating room while the
children were unconscious.
But how did that happen?
Because no surgeon is ever inan operating room by themselves,
(22:34):
right, but I mean usuallythere's multiple staff members
in the room working with thechild.
Dr Luskornik wrote oh, you haveto be patient and wait for the
opportunity.
So basically, he would waituntil his colleagues had their
backs turned and then he wouldjust slip his hand under the
(22:55):
sheet and day to day this iswhat he was doing, and I'm sure
he got a thrill knowing therewas a room full of people that
if they just turned around hewould get caught.
So this is the portrait of aman who had such depraved
proclivities that he had toconstantly push the bar to chase
that thrill.
Later on, some of hiscolleagues would say that they'd
(23:17):
worked with Joelle on hundredsof surgeries and never suspected
anything.
His diary entries began assporadic weekly entries and
burgeoned to multiple dailyentries, sometimes four times a
day, and the entries branchedout to include boys as well as
girls and even more trickysituations where he would pride
himself for abusing childrenunnoticed, with others in the
(23:40):
immediate vicinity.
So sick, he wrote disgustingletters to his victims,
addressing them by name.
He wrote I would go home andenjoy writing.
I did not use certain words atfirst, but then the despicable
began to escalate and I don'tknow some of this that I wrote
(24:02):
out from his diary.
I don't know if I can read it,but one disturbing entry
bemoaned the fact that he didn'thave a daughter to cuddle.
He talked about how she wouldalways have a dress, etc, etc
and sit on his lap.
I just can't read his notes.
(24:23):
Another entry notes abuse offunny and fancy the family's two
silver collies and this isn't atheory.
He actually wrote in hisjournal that he was multiplying
transgressive experiments, thathe was proud to break the law.
The squarnick's wife, marie,confronted him about his
activities.
She pointed out a cupboard thathe always kept locked in the
(24:44):
house and shouted you, pedophile, I do not want to know what's
in there, empty it out, gettreated, you're doing good.
She must have known, and we'lllearn a little bit more, but I
think she probably.
I mean she knew a lot more thanshe let on.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Why would she assume that he's being a pedophile?
Or she knew Later?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
she would claim she had no idea what was going on
right under her very nose.
Yet Joelle wrote in hisjournals that his wife had found
out that he was a pedophile.
Sure, too bad she didn't doanything about it.
It could have ended his reignof terror.
In the year 2000, joelle'ssister, annie the one who'd
walked in on the stuffed animalincident years earlier
confronted him.
She said that her 10-year-olddaughter told her that Joelle
(25:25):
had touched her.
Upon hearing this, joelle brokedown and, with crocodile tears,
he promised to seek treatment,saying he'd work for the rest of
his life to make amends.
It took her 25 years to comeforward.
When asked why she didn't go tothe police, she said that it
was because she thought herdaughter was the only victim and
that it was inconceivable toher that her brother was a
(25:47):
dangerous man.
She didn't know that he'dalready abused her other
daughter and had no intention ofstopping.
Annie also told mar that shealready knew.
What the fuck, marie, seriously, her response was.
Her response was well, all menlove little girls.
(26:07):
You just wanted that surgeon'ssweet ass salary and you didn't
care about anything else.
Even when Joelle and MarieFrance separated in 2004, she
still didn't go to the police,even though she knew what he'd
been up to, and in November 2004, french intelligence was
contacted by the FBI.
The FBI had been investigatingan international network
(26:28):
circulating child sexual abusematerial.
The investigation revealedthree payments using Los
Guarnics credit card to aRussian sexual abuse site on the
dark web.
Instead of raiding his house,the French police called Joelle
and they asked him to come downto the police station in the
next town over whenever he could, whenever he had a minute,
because after all, yeah, he wasa very busy man.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Oh sure, sure, oh sure.
Don't want to inconvenience you, but just have a couple
questions.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Investigators never searched his house, they didn't
search the hospital either.
They didn't interview any ofhis relatives or his colleagues.
And as Joelle went to thepolice station for a total of 25
minutes at the interview he wasasked five questions and he
stumbled through his answersabout experiencing a regretful,
quote-unquotequote phase afterhis marriage fell apart, and
(27:16):
then the next day he returned towork, continuing to care for
his pediatric patients.
How could this happen?
Because the French medicalsystem, like many, protected its
own.
There was no suspension, noinvestigation.
He just moved on.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
They were like we checked a box.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
We questioned him right in 2005, the law did catch
up to him for a small beat.
He was convicted of yeah, hewas convicted of possession of
child sexual abuse images, andhe was given a four-month
suspended sentence.
In france, the judicialauthority is legally required to
notify the national medicalcouncil to alert them about such
an offense, but in this case,for some reason, that did not
(27:58):
happen, so he went on for thenext 12 years to assault 50 more
victims.
Shame on you guys, shame.
Oh, okay, let's, let's do achart, deep breath.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Ready?
It's time for a chart note.
Let's do a chart note to changethe vibe for a little bit.
We need this chart note in ourlife.
Chart note thank God for you.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
So this chart note segment we're going to learn
about something that's happenedin medicine and healthcare
historically.
So shout out to Dr NicoleKrieger, a friend of the podcast
.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Who was like?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
did you know this?
And I was like I did not, andit's super uplifting.
So it's very quick.
But Martin Arthur Cooney, bornMichael Cohen 1869 to March 1st
1950, was an Americanobstetrician of German Jewish
descent, an advocate and pioneerof early neonatal technology
(29:16):
technology.
Cooney, also known as theincubator doctor, was best known
in medical circles and publicview for his amusement park
sideshow, the infantorium, inwhich visitors paid 25 cents to
view prematurely born babiesdisplayed in incubators.
What I know.
It doesn't sound like somethinggood, but yeah, hear me out.
So after allegedly apprenticingunder Pierre Constant Boudin,
(29:38):
an established Frenchobstetrician, in the 1890s,
cooney began exhibitingincubators at expositions and
fairgrounds in Europe and thenin America.
He's best known for hisInventorium at Coney Island, New
York.
During his active years atfairgrounds across America, it
was widely believed thatpremature babies were weaklings
who were unfit to survive intoadulthood.
(30:01):
Cooney was one of the firstadvocates for premature babies
and his infantoriums becamewidely credited with saving the
lives of over 6,500 prematurebabies.
He's considered one of thefirst pioneers of neonatal
technology.
So he basically took thesechicken incubators and put
babies in them and and wasbasically educating the public
(30:23):
because they didn't have, youknow, back in the late 1800s or
whatever.
They didn't have movies ortelevision or internet or any of
that right people went to theyou know, the local fairgrounds,
and so he was basically likeyou know, not only that, give me
some money, I'll show you thisbaby and guess what this baby's
going to survive, and also thatthe incubator was a great way to
(30:46):
keep them safe during that timeperiod, and so I mean we still
put them in those today in theNICUs.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Isn't that crazy yeah .
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I just thought that was really cool.
All right, the big old DodgeCounty fairs this week.
You think they're going to haveany?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
incubators Pay a quarter.
See a baby.
I would pay a quarter to see ababy yeah a quarter Geez.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Louise, what a steal.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Steal.
Okay, so back to this horrificcase.
We'll get through it, listeners, and then the next time I do a
case, it's going to belighthearted, I promise.
So in 2006, joelle was offereda fancy new position at a
hospital in Campolet as ahospital practitioner, where he
would work with Thierry Bonvelo,the president of the hospital's
medical committee.
Thierry had heard about thepedophilia case against
(31:41):
Laskornik and was deeplyconcerned.
He wrote a letter to thehospital's director and reported
him to the national and localorders of the French National
Order of Doctors.
They requested a copy of hiscriminal record and then came
back saying there was nothing toreport.
Oh sure.
So how is conviction forpossession of child sexual abuse
images?
Quote, unquote nothing.
Well, I'll tell you, the filingsystem of the council had a bit
of a backlog, and so the deathof the doctor's file had not
(32:03):
been updated to reveal hisrecent criminal convictions.
He was officially appointed tohis position on August 1st 2006.
And then, a few months later,the files were updated.
It was there in black and whitethat they had a convicted
pedophile working for them, butnobody wanted to do anything
about this unfortunate hire.
The resulting consensus from thecouncil was that ah well, he's
(32:25):
already here he can stay.
I mean, nobody's complained.
And of course, there was thatpesky shortage of doctors.
What's a little sexual deviantbehavior when the waiting list
for surgeons is so long?
Sex offense against childrenwas taken so lightly that they
didn't interfere with DrLusquarnick's promotion to the
local medical board.
(32:46):
Shortly after this discovery,the hospital ultimately shut
down in 2008 due to a shortageof doctors.
So he moved on to a hospital inwestern France.
Even though the administratorsof this hospital acknowledged
his criminal history, theyprioritized the shortages of
doctors over his evil.
Let me say that again, becauseI think I said evil, evil
(33:08):
propensities.
The director noted that Joëlwas very kind and that, since no
physical insult had taken placeto their knowledge, no
restrictions were placed on himat all.
He was welcome to the team.
Later, the French press wouldrefer to this as a structural
flaw.
But is it a structural failingor is it enabling abuse?
(33:28):
The director went on to say wecan't imagine a predator could
hide beneath a white coat.
Well, therein lies your problempeople.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Well, believe it because he was already convicted
.
Hello Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
So Dr Liskornik transferred to the clinic in
Jean-Jacques and moved therealone Because he and his wife
had been separated.
For a few years he continued tosupport her financially and
then he would return to staywith her and the boys several
times a year.
The rest of the time he wasreported to live a solitary
existence and sink deeper anddeeper into his sick world.
He wrote in his diary that hegrieved the loss of his family
(34:06):
and friends, saying nothing willbe left for me, but I will
embrace my pedophilia and I willembrace it for the rest of my
life.
This is when he stopped washinghimself or cleaning his home.
He pretended to be normal whenhe was at the hospital, but the
chasm between his professionaland personal life widened
considerably during this time.
He began drinking a lot.
(34:26):
Some reports said he wasdrinking up to a liter of
whiskey a day.
Jeez.
Eventually he just lay ablanket in the middle of the
living room and slept on that,letting the rest of the house go
to rot.
Occasionally he would walkaround naked in his garden, as
we know, behind thatteensy-tinesy fence.
Mold covered the walls andbodily fluids were found all
(34:49):
over his diaries as well oh God,over time the windows of his
house darkened with grime untilthe sun was eventually totally
blocked out.
According to his colleagues,they didn't notice anything was
wrong at the time.
Some even said that he seemedin control, not someone who was
going off the rails at all.
Nurses, of course, noticed hissmell, but since he was a
(35:10):
surgeon, they ignored his stenchbecause authority was absolute
and second only to God.
Here's a diary entry from 9th ofMay 2013, that he made at 4.30
pm in the living room of hishouse.
I am out of money, it israining, I've got a cold and a
cough, I am old and tired, Idrink too much, but my little
(35:31):
Veronique is always there,attentive to my distress.
My beloved little girl snuggledup against my nude body.
She was his favorite doll.
She was the size of afive-year-old child and was
always dressed in variousprincess gowns.
He even installed what thecourts refer to as a replica of
female sex organ on the doll.
It seemed that his dolls hadbegun to replace his real-life
(35:54):
victims at this point, becausethe instances of abuse dwindled
around this time.
According to his journalentries, that is until 2017,
when he assaulted thesix-year-old daughter of his
neighbor through the fence.
As I mentioned in the beginning.
He was 66 years old at the timeand nearing retirement.
After the girl's parentsreported the incident to the
police, an investigation wasinitiated.
(36:15):
He was arrested and the housewas searched.
I described what they found,but I should add they found a
box full of children's toys andunderwear, and under Joelle's
mattress they found a collectionof hard drives.
God bless the poor investigatorwho was tasked with looking
through those.
For real I know you can't paypeople enough.
Leskornik knew it was wrongbecause there was a note to his
(36:38):
family written on top of thepile of drives instructing them
to destroy them without watching.
All in all, investigatorsremoved 78 items from his home,
including 27 external harddrives, nine USB sticks, a
camera, three computers, 131porn DVDs, 22 dolls and a
(36:58):
boatload of sex toys and wigs.
An investigator began analyzingthe hard drives immediately.
Over the next few years, all ofthose drives would come to
reveal more than 300,000 photosand videos featuring child sex
abuse.
Two of the hard drives werededicated to material exclusive
of his own exploits on his ownnieces.
(37:19):
The evidence included photos ofhimself documenting his
exploits that proved that he wasalso creating his own porn and
participating in the crimes.
There were documents,spreadsheets and, of course, the
diaries, which contained 3,600separate notes detailing the
acts of abuse carried outagainst children, mostly at his
various hospitals.
The spreadsheets listedhundreds of victims' names,
(37:41):
dates of birth and addresses.
He even had files labeled gorewhich had images of piles of
corpses, decapitations, tortureand animal abuse in them.
Those who were tasked withgoing through this never wholly
recovered.
The lead investigator was puton sick leave for three years.
Imagine the hundreds andhundreds of victims across 30
(38:03):
years.
Some of these children were asyoung as one years of age, so by
the time anyone discovered whathappened to them, they would be
at least 31 years old.
One victim known as Marie, nowin her 30s, discovered her name
and age 10 years old in hisrecords, after forgetting the
event.
Imagine Soon, after his housewas searched, lusquarnock
(38:23):
appeared before a judge with acourt-appointed lawyer and
attended what became known asthe family trial to account for
his confessions of abuse againsthis own family.
There he described himself as acold person who has trouble
feeling things.
Laskronic denied everything,but as the evidence was
presented, including diaryentries that he himself had
written describing his crimes indetail, he eventually admitted
(38:44):
to everything.
Bit by bit, he acknowledgedthat he was attracted to
children, mainly to little girlsaround the ages of 9 and 10,
because they were easier toseduce.
He admitted to sexuallyassaulting his niece and two
other children who were familyfriends in the 1980s, and his
niece, fanny, was his firstvictim.
She was 43 years old when shetestified at this trial.
(39:06):
She testified that she carriedthe guilt of not having said
something at the time that couldhave stopped him from abusing
all these other children.
Not on you, fanny.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
This was not on you, no no, no, I was just thinking
that your mom and your auntieknew and they did nothing.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
This was not on.
You bless your heart the adultsshould have done something fanny
yeah, as a result of theconfessions, he was convicted of
the sexual abuse of four girlshis six-year-old neighbor, a
four-year-old patient and twonieces.
His nieces were just four yearsold when he started to abuse
them.
He was sentenced to 15 years inprison.
(39:44):
And I think they did this first.
They did like the easylow-hanging fruitanging fruit,
like okay, we can definitely gethim on this and get him out of
the way so he doesn't offendagain, and then now we're going
to go after all of the othersand now we can continue our
investigation and really nailhim to the board with more
concrete evidence.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, but at least we know you're put away right now.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, you're re-offending.
So while he sat in his cell,they got to work identifying
many victims detailed in hisdiaries and gathering evidence.
Once the victims wereidentified, investigators had
the horrible task of contactingthem and, as I said, these
victims were in their 30s and40s by this point.
A lot of them had lived theirentire lives with no idea that
they'd even been assaulted.
Most of them didn't evenrecognize liskornik's name,
(40:27):
which is understandable.
I mean, he'd been their surgeonfor a day or two when they were
children, been assaulted.
Most of them didn't evenrecognize Laskornik's name,
which is understandable.
I mean, he'd been their surgeonfor a day or two when they were
children.
So now on to the trial.
In February 2025, the trialbegan in Vannes, the most
significant child sexual abusecase in France.
What traumatized me the most,the police said a farmer on a
stand when he was summoned tothe police station, he thought
(40:50):
it was because he was guilty ofsomething, like everyone else in
such situations.
In reality, it was worse, herecalled.
I learned I was a victim.
In a 20-minute hearing,including the formalities, a
police officer told him he'dbeen raped under anesthetic in
the operating theater some 30years earlier.
On an early winter morning in2020, the farmer found himself
(41:11):
alone in this police station'sparking lot.
His life smashed in two Infront of the court, he tried not
to break down.
It turned me upside down.
He managed to whisper.
He glanced at his wife seatedin the front row, and she burst
into tears for both of them.
Liskwarnik admitted to the vastmajority of the 299 rapes and
assaults committed between 1989and 2014.
(41:34):
He confessed to abusing his owngranddaughter in court,
creating further shock.
One victim, a woman namedCeline Matteau, was told by the
police that this happened to herAt just seven years old.
She'd been rushed to thehospital with acute appendicitis
.
Shortly after the operation,she underwent a significant
change.
She began cutting her hair andswapping her dresses for pants.
(41:55):
She suffered from intimacyissues for many years.
She now believes it was becauseof the abuse.
Most victims had no idea theywere abused because often they
were unconscious when ithappened.
Some say it had a detrimentalimpact on them, but they
couldn't pinpoint exactly whathappened.
Some were fine and had no idea.
All victims who were identifiedhad the awful opportunity to
(42:17):
read the diary entry thatdescribed what had happened to
them.
Celine refused, but noteveryone did.
I can't imagine this.
I don't know what I would do inthis situation.
What would you do, amanda?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I have no idea.
I, I don't think, I would wantto know, yeah it's a horrible
because, like, there's a part ofyou that does want to know what
exactly happened to you becauseit happened to you, but also
once you know that you can neverunknow that yeah and and think
(42:51):
about these kids, these babieslike that happened to me when I
was one year old.
I mean it's horrible, no matterwhat age they are.
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Amelie levisseau found out the terrible news at
the age of 43.
She read an article in herlocal newspaper about the family
trial and contacted her GP whochecked her medical records and
saw that Le Squarnick hadremoved her appendix in 1991.
She began seeing a therapistand stated that suppressed
(43:27):
memories resurfaced, she told alocal newspaper.
In a few seconds I was back tobeing nine years old again in
the recovery room of the clinic.
Everything came back thefeelings, the smells, the cold,
the heat, the rape, all of it,oh my God.
A young boy named Matisse wasadmitted to a hospital with
appendicitis in June of 2007.
(43:49):
His grandparents remember himas a happy child at first and
very charming.
After he was discharged fromthe hospital following an
overnight stay, he began tochange.
He stopped being happy andbecame aggressive with everyone,
and as a teenager he distancedhimself from his family and
started using drugs.
He was in and out of rehab.
11 years after his hospital stay.
Police arrived at his door andtold him that he had been
(44:12):
mentioned in Liskwarnik'sdiaries.
They read an excerpt aloud tohim.
His grandmother said it was asif the sky fell on his head.
They tried to support him, buthe refused to talk about it.
Two years later, matisse diedof an overdose at the age of 24.
His grandparents blamed theabuse Absolutely.
(44:32):
In May 2025, after a month-longtrial that included hundreds of
plaintiffs, 65 lawyers andalmost 500 journalists, joelle
Esquenic was sentenced to 20years in prison.
The maximum penalty was atleast two-thirds of the sentence
required before eligible forparole.
So he could be out in 15 yearsdoing that.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
I'm like can we do 20 plus the 15 he was already in
for, At least Guys.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Anyone?
Yeah, if he can commit 299rapes in 25 years without
detection, what does that sayabout our system?
And investigators think there'seven more than 400 victims.
They just didn't have enoughevidence or sufficient
information to identify all ofthem.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
And also, just because he's sitting in jail
doesn't mean he's rehabbing Like.
These are deep-rooted issues.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
So once he gets out, we're just going to expect that
that yeah he's like I, I will bethis person until I die.
He said it himself in hisdiaries and so, yeah, let's let
him out of jail.
Guys, and this has such a broadreach.
It's not just the children andtheir families tragedy.
He'll be killed in prison,honestly.
Yeah, one can help I meanhonestly, I'm usually I don't
(45:53):
know how I feel about the deathpenalty, but in this case this
guy doesn't.
We shouldn't be keeping himalive.
What's he here for Nothing?
To add to all of this,tragically, a French lawyer who
defended him died in an apparentsuicide recently.
I mean interesting.
(46:16):
Imagine the impact that thishaving to defend someone like
this.
No, and this was recently.
A prosecutor made anannouncement on wednesday, july
9th, and we're recording thisthe 14th.
An article from lamont newsstates maxime tessier, 34,
defended Lascornic, 74, whoconfessed that his child was
(46:36):
sexually assaulting or raping298 patients between 89 and 14,
most of them children.
Everything points to suicide.
Frédéric Taillet, chiefprosecutor in the western French
city of Rennes, said of thelawyer's death, adding that an
investigation had started.
Tessier, a father of two youngchildren, had a very high regard
(46:56):
for justice and was very, verydemanding towards himself.
I mean, he probably just was soconflicted over having to
defend somebody like this thatwould be the worst job yeah, and
that quote was from katherineglon.
His associate, tessier, was oneof two lawyers defending
lusquarnick, one of the most and, as we talked about infamous
(47:18):
sex predators, a prosecutor andanother prosecutor in the case
referred to the former doctor asthe devil dressed in a white
coat.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
I mean that's the understatement of the year he's
more than a devil, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
So france's medical council is suing itself at least
, that's at least admittingtheir failure and pledging
reform.
But you know what reputationand inaction enabled the
predator.
So it's too little, too late,if you ask me.
Jo Joel Luskornik may be behindbars, but he shattered hundreds
and hundreds of lives.
This wasn't an isolated crime.
(47:55):
It was a tragedy ofinstitutional neglect as well.
So if this episode wasdifficult to hear, you're not
alone.
We're going to includeinternational support resources
in the show notes for survivorsof medical abuse and sexual
violence.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Jenna, jenna.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Good job getting through that horrific tale.
Thank, you.
And while that is so disgustingand horrible to uncover, it is
important.
It is important.
Yeah, I mean this isn't.
I can't believe this is arecent.
This is so recent.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
This sounds like something that happened maybe in
the 20s or maybe in the 1800s.
Right, they're just wrappingthis up now, like a couple weeks
ago.
What the hell?
And it's not just the, I mean,it's not because it's france,
it's it's everywhere, you know,oh we have a shortage of doctors
.
We couldn't possibly questionthe doctor of a four-year-old,
and the four-year-olds don'teven have the language or the
(48:52):
understanding to be able to comeforward.
And then, if they'reunconscious, what the hell I
mean?
Speaker 2 (48:59):
it's disgusting that poor gal that after she learned
that all the memories cameflooding back, like her brain
just suppressed them until itwas said out loud, and then
everything came back.
I mean, obviously somethingthem until it was said out loud
and then everything came back.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
I mean, obviously something happened and it was
almost like she was trying toprotect herself by cutting her
hair and wearing pants and likeI mean oh yeah, for sure your
hair and wearing pants, ifthat's that's what you want to
do, but it was like a suddenchange but more like a
protective, yeah measure afterher.
Yeah, isn't that crazy?
What I don't know?
Speaker 2 (49:30):
that's terrible like if I don't look like a girl,
then maybe a man won't want todo that to me.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, oh, thisis so sad, so sad, so I was just
thinking okay, wait, so he gothow many years?
20 it was 15, but then he got20 yeah and it was 74, so I mean
, hopefully he'll at least bedead.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah.
Or killed he's going to have tobe in solitary because I don't
know If there's ever prisonjustice anywhere, bring it.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
I mean I'm sorry, I should say that we're not
condoning murder.
We're just saying.
Typically, people who offendagainst children are often
innocent.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
If you happen to slip on a banana peel, a trail of
banana peels on the way to thecanteen.
God forbid, god forbid, yeah,yeah, oopsie, poopsie.
Worst things could happen.
I'm just saying, yeah, Iwouldn't be losing sleep.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
In fact, I'd probably sleep a bit better knowing that
, you know, I would just likealso want that house torn down.
Yeah, I wouldn't even want tolive by that house.
Right, it's disgusting.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Well, and you know what, Thank God, they said
something they could have toldtheir little girl like oh you
didn't see what you thought yousaw.
I mean, it's easy to brush kidsoff sometimes, you know, and it
seems like probably a lot ofpeople did, which is why this
lasted so long.
Probably a lot of people did,which is why this lasted so long
.
Okay, so this week's medicalmishap was recommended by Meemum
(50:56):
.
Shout out to Jillian.
As some of you may know, I grewup in Dahran, saudi Arabia,
where my father, the country'sfirst audiologist, established
the kingdom's first speech andhearing clinics.
And now patients from all overthe Middle East come for ENT and
audiology care and there's anentire hospital in Riyadh
dedicated just for cochlearimplant patients.
(51:17):
Fun fact hearing loss,especially congenital
sensorineural hearing loss, ismore common in Saudi Arabia than
in many countries, mostly dueto high rates of consanguinity,
which is close relative marriage.
Studies show that children fromsuch marriages have a three and
a half times greater risk ofcongenital hearing loss,
according to WHO, the WorldHealth Organization.
(51:39):
Okay, so back to me.
I was an itchy child, alwayspolishing my nose and leaving
soggy tissues in my wake.
My dad took me to see hisfriend Dr Wiley, an American ENT
specialist with a specialty inallergies who worked at the same
hospital as my dad.
Dr Wiley was so funny I lovegoing to visit His silly dad.
(52:00):
Jokes always made me laugh.
Dr Wiley treated my youngersister with allergy injections
for about a year before I wentto see him Now my sister used to
have to get up at some unholyhour like six in the morning
before school to get her shotsfor months on end.
So when it was suggested thatmaybe I needed shots too, I did
a little pre-work before myscratch test.
(52:21):
So let's keep in mind that thiswas the mid 1980s and we didn't
have internet back then andthere was no Google machine.
So word of mouth waspractically the only way to
learn things, unless it wasprinted in an encyclopedia and
you had the right volume orletter to consult.
So I learned through theelementary grapevine that you
could cheat the test by takingTylenol and antihistamines
(52:44):
before you go in for yourscratch test.
Turns out that must have beentrue because it worked.
Still, dr Wiley must have beena bit puzzled because I had the
constant rhinitis, chronic puffyeyes and hyponasal speech of a
mouth breather.
A nasal exam confirmed hissuspicions.
I had nasal polyps and theyneeded to be removed so that I
(53:04):
could breathe through my nose.
It was to be a minor in-officeprocedure.
My mom picked me up afterschool one day and we headed to
his office.
The mood was jokey and light.
A big brown bottle sat on thetray table near Dr Wiley's stool
.
It had one of those labels onit that you print yourself with
those little label makers, andin the old days the letters were
(53:25):
raised.
I remember it to this day.
The bottle was brown and had atube that ended in a puffer bulb
like a vintage perfume spraybottle, and the label clearly
read cocaine.
I joked with my mom who satacross from my exam chair Look,
mom, I'm about to snort cocainein front of you.
I can't wait.
We all had a chuckle as Dr Wileyinserted a tube attached to the
(53:46):
bottle and instructed me tosnort once, twice on each side.
After a few nose-tinglingminutes he pulled out what
looked like a metal whisk butwith just one wire loop on it.
A flip of his eye mirror and hewas quickly spelunking in my
nasal cavity, still spinning thedad jokes.
He quickly cinched the wireloop around a polyp and
(54:07):
tightened it.
He told me to take a deepbreath and hold it, and jerked
his hand back, ripping what feltlike my brain out in the
process.
Blood started pouring out of mynose and my face felt like it
exploded.
I glanced at my mother, whoseface had turned white.
She looked about ready to faint.
Dr Wiley, who was now more likeDr Evil in my mind, mopped me
(54:29):
up and comforted my mother.
My face was streaming withtears.
Eventually, when my sobssettled down, the Joker wheeled
towards me with a devil's whiskpointed at my face.
I think I missed some.
He teased Let me have a lastlittle peek.
I laughed until I realized hewasn't joking and he was
actually going back for more.
I kicked him and punched hisarm out of the way.
(54:50):
He got the hint and I got tokeep my remaining polyps to this
day.
Today this procedure istypically performed under
general anesthesia and I havePTSD about anything going up my
nose.
Imagine my suffering with allthe COVID swabs we've had to
take in the last five years.
So thanks, mom, for bringing upthat past trauma.
(55:13):
You're welcome listeners, ohgosh.
So due to technicaldifficulties, I'm going to
assume Amanda's laughing likecrazy at my little story here
and I think we're going to hearabout a nefarious nurse next
week, listeners, so you need tostay tuned.
(55:35):
You put it on here.
I don't see it.
Oh, oh, okay, okay, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So next week, amanda's going tobe covering a nefarious nurse,
I think, and she says it's adoozy.
This nurse's ambition was tohave killed more people helpless
(56:04):
people than any other man orwoman who ever lived.
Oh evil.
I can't wait to learn moreabout that, but meanwhile, don't
miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts, for stories thatshock, intrigue and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
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(56:25):
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Until then, stay safe and staysuspicious.
(56:47):
Bye.
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