August 5, 2025 • 52 mins
This episode unravels the shocking case of David Kwiatkowski, a traveling radiologic technician whose addiction to fentanyl sparked the largest hepatitis C outbreak in American history. For nearly a decade, Kwiatkowski moved between 16 hospitals across seven states, stealing pain medication intended for vulnerable patients and replacing it with saline-filled syringes contaminated with his blood. By the time authorities caught him, 45 patients had been infected with a potentially deadly virus.
Resources:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/03/hepatitis-c-case-medical-technician-jailed
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-2e5795e233f1546cb161b12aef4b2892
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Amanda Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
How you doing Alley Cat.
I'm doing real spectacular.
How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Awesome, really good, good, good, good, really good
Happy Monday.
Happy Montag.
If you're German, Listen.
We have a new Belgian listener.
Oh, I think they speak Germanthere.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So uh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Happy Montag.
Ah, I've got nothing butwelcome.
Okay, I'll stop.
So, Amanda, did you have you?
You have?
You said we had to wait tillyou finished dinner, but I need
to know the Alleycast need toknow were Reese's Puffs involved
?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
nope, I had a real dinner.
My husband grilled.
It was good, delicious blessyour heart.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
You've gone all adulting on us I mean, I didn't
do anything.
That's what happens when youhave a hubby that likes to grill
.
Yes, good for him wonderfuladam, adam, you're the best, so
do we do.
We do the obligatory weatherdiscussion.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We could, because it's effing gorgeous outside.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It's.
I mean, I think this will be arare discussion, because
normally we have stuff tocomplain about, but the weather
has been gorgeous, so nice.
We're talking, the smoke iscleared, the humidity is down,
the temperature is moderate-ishto warm.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I'm loving it and it's like it's when you're in
the sunshine.
You're warm, but there's a coolbreeze.
Ugh, it's got me craving fallreal bad.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, the time of year when you can have your
windows open or you could sitout on the deck or patio without
a bug just munching down on youyeah, that's always nice any
who's.
All I was gonna say for thecorrection section not to
preempt our little banter.
(02:17):
We can keep answering if youwant, but our correction section
.
I was gonna say I did reach outto the company that had the top
pages have expired.
Well, consult last week's IMI,global IMI Top 12 Medical
(02:40):
Breakthroughs for Better Healththis 2025.
And I put the link to thewebsite in the show notes for
last week, and Amanda and I werelike puzzled as to what the eye
tracking technology to aidsurgical procedures was Like.
Are they excited?
Like their number?
(03:00):
This is what they judged astheir number one tech innovation
in 2025 is to like keepsurgeons on track or like I
don't know what this is.
So I couldn't find anything inany of their little blogs, so I
went to their contact us areaand I sent them a little please,
I would like to know more aboutwhat this number one eye
(03:22):
tracking technology actuallydoes in order to aid surgical
procedures and have not heardback.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So oh dang it.
I was like oh, my gosh, I lovethis.
What did they say?
But wah, wah, wah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I know, wah, wah, wah .
Well, I bring it up so we canstay interested in it, because
hopefully they'll get back to meand maybe we'll have something
to share.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So I did try to follow up yeah, okay, well, we
will wait for an update.
Yeah me or whatever, emmymedical stuff, please reply so
what are we talking about thisweek?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
my dear.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
well, so we're still not talking about the one that I
was working on forever now,because I'm still not done
reading the books that I have.
I will say that I had guests atmy house the last four days.
That's so hard, so that tooklike a big chunk of time and
(04:18):
obviously I didn't have time forreading.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, cause you can't just go.
Okay, talk amongst yourselves.
I'm, I'm reading you know yeahyeah.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So then I thought, okay, I can like have like part
of Sunday and Monday.
And then I opened the documentagain today and I was like, oh
my god, I only have five pagesstill and I have to read there's
I.
There's no way I can do this.
So, unfortunately for myself, Idid the same thing that I did
last week, which was do a casefrom start to finish.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Today, Yay Listen, you did a bang shoot job last
week.
I'm so excited to hear what wehave this week.
It just keeps us excited tohear what's coming in the future
, and we all know that you'rebasically doing such a deep dive
in the research.
We can't wait to hear aboutyour unique perspective on Jolly
(05:12):
Jane that we may not have heardin other cases, other coverings
of this case, your dedication.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I did say to myself lastweek I will not do that to
myself again, and here I wastoday and I told my husband I'm
not doing this to myself again.
So I hope that I do this casejustice and I hope that you guys
will all enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I'm sure you will, because there's something to be
said for you know, like whenyou're cramming for a test in
high school and you cram thenight before instead of just
like doing the way you'resupposed to, like slowly over
the weeks or whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, literally my educational career.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
If you cram yourself exactly Same, you're totally
immersed in it.
There's no one that's moreexpert in that subject than you,
because you have deep dived andlived and breathed it for that
full day or two days that you've.
I was going to say dove into it.
So bring it, girl.
What did your deep dive show us?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I will tell you after we hear from our first sponsor.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay.
Well, I have to tell ourlisteners our first sponsor I'm
really excited about, because,unless it's Reese's Puffs, my
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Speaker 2 (07:46):
That sounds so good right now, even though I just
ate dinner.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Indian food always sounds good.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Always All right.
Well, my friends, there is notime like the present to just
hop on in.
So shall we?
We shall, okay.
In the sterile corridors ofAmerican hospitals, patients
expect healing, professionalismand safety.
They trust medical personnelwith their lives, often
(08:15):
literally.
But what happens when thattrust is violated in the most
horrific way possible?
In this episode, we'll explorethe case of the largest
hepatitis C outbreak in Americanhistory.
Interesting, this case exploreshow actions can devastate lives
and even expose deep flaws inhospital oversight and national
(08:38):
hiring practices.
Among the heartbreaking storiesis that of Lucy Starry, a
beloved mother and grandmotherwho pursued life-extending heart
surgery, only to be given adeath sentence by someone who
should have never been allowednear a patient.
Oh, born in 1919 in Elmira, newYork, lucy Starry was the
(08:59):
daughter of Italian immigrantswho arrived in the United States
through Ellis Island, ofItalian immigrants who arrived
in the United States throughEllis Island.
Despite the challenges of a newlife in a new land, lucy grew
up with determination and hope.
She fell in love, married andraised four daughters.
Though she never had theopportunity to attend college
herself, she often shared withher girls her dream of becoming
(09:20):
a nurse.
Fittingly, two of them would goon to pursue that path,
dedicating their lives to theprofession she so admired.
Lucy remained in good health formost of her life, staying
active and independent well intoher 80s.
But when she began toexperience shortness of breath,
(09:43):
she was diagnosed with aorticstenosis, which is a narrowing
of the heart valve.
Her doctors recommended valvereplacement surgery, and Lucy
turned to her daughters,naturally, for advice.
One daughter, kathy, who hadworked as an operating room
nurse for 20 years.
She encouraged her mother to goforward with the procedure,
confident that Lucy's strengthand vitality would carry her
(10:05):
through.
Yes, kathy told her, you willdo great.
This will be a walk in the park.
In September 2009, lucy wasadmitted to Johns Hopkins
Hospital in Maryland for openheart surgery.
Before the valve replacement,doctors performed a routine
coronary stent placement in thecardiac catheterization lab.
(10:25):
Both procedures were successful.
Her cardiologist was optimistic, telling her the new valve
would likely give her at leastanother 10 good years of life.
Her the new valve would likelygive her at least another 10
good years of life.
Energized and hopeful, lucyrecovered well and seemed to be
on track for a new chapter ofhealth and independence.
Eight weeks after her surgery,in December of 2010, lucy
(10:47):
visited her local cardiologistfor routine follow-up labs.
The results were alarming.
Her liver enzymes wereabnormally elevated.
Further testing revealed aneven more shocking truth Lucy
had hepatitis C.
This news blindsided the family.
They were absolutely stunned.
(11:09):
Lucy had zero, no risk factors.
How could this have happened?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Oh my gosh.
No risk factors.
How?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
could this have happened?
Oh my gosh.
Hepatitis C is a serious viralinfection that primarily targets
the liver.
It is transmitted throughblood-to-blood contact.
The virus compromises theliver's ability to filter toxins
and fight infection.
In 2010, there were no effectivecurative treatments, meaning
thaty now faced a chronic,progressive illness with no
(11:36):
clear path to recovery.
Her daughters, who wereexperienced nurses, understood
the full gravity of thediagnosis, but shielded lucy
from the worst of it.
They were angry and confused,filled with guilt.
How did this happen, you know?
Had they made the wrong call,encouraging her to go to surgery
?
Kind of just feeling that likeguilt, like as you would, we
(11:59):
talked her mom into this right.
Well, lucy's quality of lifequickly deteriorated.
She became fatigued, her legsand abdomen swelled and her
liver was enlarged.
For someone so vibrant andactive it was was a devastating
change.
Her daughters racked theirbrains trying to determine how
she had been affected.
The most likely explanationpointed to her procedure at
(12:22):
Johns Hopkins.
But how could this havehappened at one of the most
prestigious hospitals in thecountry?
Hundreds of miles away inExeter, new Hampshire, another
doctor was asking similarquestions in Exeter, new
Hampshire, another doctor wasasking similar questions In May
2012, dr Tom Sherman, agastroenterologist at Exeter
Hospital, noticed somethingdisturbing.
(12:45):
Two of his elderly patients,both considered low risk, had
suddenly tested positive forhepatitis C.
The virus is not oh grew.
Three patients had contractedhepatitis C shortly after
undergoing routine procedures.
The hospital initiatedstaff-wide testing and they
(13:22):
found that one hospital employeehad also tested positive.
All four of these individualshad one thing in common they had
spent time in the hospital'scardiac cath lab.
In May 2012, the New HampshireDepartment of Health and Human
Services began a public healthinvestigation after it was
notified by Exeter Hospital ofthese four patients newly
(13:46):
diagnosed with hepatitis C.
Dr Elizabeth Talbot, a deputystate epidemiologist, was
notified of the cluster.
We typically see a couple ofcases of hepatitis C a year.
She explained A cluster likethis was deeply unusual and
deeply alarming.
Detailed reviews of the cathlabs operation turned up nothing
(14:07):
obviously wrong.
Sterilization and proceduralprotocols were being followed,
but all paths pointed towardsone shared space and potentially
one individual the employee.
When blood samples from allfour infected individuals were
tested for genotype, the resultswere damning.
Each person had the same rarestrain, hcv, genotype two.
(14:31):
That meant that they had allbeen infected by the same source
.
Dr Talbot knew that it was timeto loop in local authorities to
the case.
The investigation soon focusedon a medical technician named
David Kwiatkowski.
David previously worked as ahealthcare technician at several
(14:52):
medical facilities in Michiganbetween 2003 and 2007 and became
a traveling radiologictechnician using various
placement agencies to findemployment at medical facilities
in New York, pennsylvania,maryland, arizona, kansas,
georgia and New Hampshire A lotof places.
(15:12):
Mm-hmm, yeah, His work consistedof assisting physicians in the
cath lab and while he didn'thave formal access to controlled
medications, he was presentduring most procedures.
Some colleagues of his hadnoticed troubling signs for
years.
He often seemed sweaty, unwellor visibly altered.
(15:33):
He had needle marks andabscesses on his arms.
That raised concern.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
On multiple occasions he was asked to leave the room
because his bleeding abscesswounds were visible through his
clothing.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Which is absolutely disgusting.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
When asked about his condition by his colleagues, he
claimed he was undergoing cancertreatments, but that was
obviously a lie.
When questioned as part of theinvestigation, his colleagues
shared that they had discovereda fentanyl syringe in a public
bathroom near the lab.
Fentanyl is a powerful painmedication used during cath lab
(16:14):
procedures and is kept securelyin a Pyxis machine accessible
only through fingerprint ID.
David did not have access tothis machine, so how could he be
getting access if there werefoul play involved?
The thing was he wasn't withoutan opportunity.
Investigators suspected that hehad been stealing syringes that
were prepared for patients,injecting himself and replacing
(16:37):
them empty or, even worse,refilling syringes and putting
them back onto the proceduraltree.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
On.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
June 13, 2012,.
David was brought in forquestioning.
He, of course, deniedeverything and claimed to be a
victim himself.
He said that he didn't knowthat he had hepatitis C.
He was questioned about hisbehavior in the cath lab and
about possible drug diversion.
David explained that he hadhealth issues, that you know he
(17:05):
had cancer.
He used this to explain his oddbehaviors and denied any sort
of wrongdoing.
At that time, authorities hadreports of unusual conduct, but
not criminal conduct, and theywould need solid evidence to
support criminal conduct.
Of course, as the days went on,the number of hepatitis C cases
(17:26):
was rising.
The epidemiology team wentthrough patient records,
cross-referenced with hisschedule, to see how many
patients had received procedureswhen David was present.
They tested more than 1,200patients and found that 32 of
them were positive 32.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Every time someone was infected at the hospital,
David was present.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
With the alarming number of patients identified,
it begged the question if thiswas bigger than the community of
Exeter.
Where did he work prior toExeter Hospital?
Digging into his work, historyrevealed an even darker picture.
Over the course of nine years,david had worked in 16 hospitals
, across seven states.
(18:12):
Oh my goodness, this is howpandemics start in 2008, he had
been caught at the university ofpittsburgh lifting his shirt
and injecting fentanyl, butdenied any wrongdoing and
quietly moved on oh my gosh inarizona.
(18:32):
He was found unresponsive in ahospital bathroom with a syringe
floating in the toilet, andwhen help arrived he quickly
flushed it down before anyonecould collect evidence.
And then the final pieceRecords showed that David had
been diagnosed with hepatitis Cin 2010 while working in Kansas,
so he had known for at leasttwo years that he was infected
(18:56):
and kept working with needlesanyway.
This discovery changedeverything for the case, and it
was also time for the CDC to belooped in on what was going on.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I mean this is criminal, am I right?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, because they were like well, maybe he didn't
like, maybe he is just doingdrug diversion.
He didn't know he had hep C.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But even well, maybe he didn't like maybe he is just
doing drug diversion.
He didn't know he had Hep C,but even drug diversion he
didn't.
He didn't pay any consequencesfor that Right, which would have
at least prevented him fromcontinuing to harm people.
Oh my gosh.
Yes, this is crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And it was just like oh, I might be getting in
trouble here, so I'm just goingto slip away into the night and
go get a job somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I mean, I can see where it happens, where people
are, or people, hospitals orhealth care places are
chronically understaffed, and sothey do these ad hoc staffing
situations, these per diemsituations.
How would you keep track ofthat across multiple places?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
especially when it's a position that we'll get into a
little bit later.
But it's not a board certifiedor like there's not a board that
manages this type of position,so like if there were any
disciplinary action right, thatdoesn't follow you because
you're not under a regulatoryboard.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oh God, Okay.
Well, I hope that we find outthat this changes, but I don't
know Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
To carry on?
Yes, but before we get moreinto that, we are headed into
the chart notes segment.
I was going to join.
I was going to join.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I preempted you.
Where were we headed, amanda,into the chart Chart Note.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
That felt nice.
Welcome to the chart notesegment, where we learn about
what's happening in medicine andhealthcare.
So just a quick note becauseyou may be curious if there is a
treatment for hepatitis C now,in 2025.
The answer is yes, there is.
Hepatitis C is generallycurable with direct acting
(21:06):
antivirals or DAA medicationsthat are taken orally.
The treatment is typicallyeight to 12 weeks and cures over
95% of patients.
Yay, yay, this is usuallywithout significant side effects
and, of course, treatment canbe longer depending on
individual factors.
But yay, yay, goodness.
(21:27):
So okay, let's get into thechart note, which is also
exciting news, yay.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yay, another yay.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yay, yay, yay, yay, Yay.
Another yay, yay, yay, yay.
So Northwell Health recentlyconducted a groundbreaking
clinical trial using a vagusnerve implanted chip to treat
rheumatoid arthritis Nice, whichI will call RA now.
This innovation, known as asthe Setpoint system, is the
first technology of its kind andhas now received FDA approval
as of July 31.
(22:01):
So like Ooh, fresh, yes, acouple of days ago.
And so that made it eligiblefor prescription use.
Dr Kevin Tracy, president andCEO of the Finsteinutes for
Medical Research at Northwell,emphasized the novelty of the
approach, stating that doctorstraditionally think of treating
(22:21):
RA with pills, injections orphysical therapy, but now they
can consider a computer chip asan option.
Developed by Setpoint Medical,the system is a neuroimmune
modulation platform designed forpatients with moderate to
severe RA who haven't respondedwell to conventional therapies.
The chip stimulates the vagusnerve once daily, triggering the
(22:44):
body's anti-inflammatory andimmune restorative pathways.
Murthy Simbaltha, ceo ofSetpoint Medical, called the
approval a transformativemilestone.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
How cool is the name Murthy, murthy, murthy.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Y'all love it and we're going to focus on Murthy,
because there's so manyconsonants in the last name, so
let's restart that, friends.
Murthy S, who's the CEO ofSetpoint Medical, called the
approval a transformativemilestone in autoimmune disease
management.
The system will roll out inselect US cities this year, with
(23:24):
plans for nationwide expansionin early 2026.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I mean, I think his last name is Simhamblata.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Simhamblata Blah.
Yeah, exactly, simham BlattaBlatta.
Wow Okay, I'll cut all that out.
You did a good job, simhamBlatta.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, yeah, what she said.
So Northwell Health hosted theclinical trial as its newly
opened Center for BioelectronicMedicine, where the device
showed positive patient outcomesfor bioelectronic medicine.
Where the device showedpositive patient outcomes.
One patient is Don Steiner, a58-year-old speech and language
pathologist from Massapequa,massapequa, massapequa, who
(24:05):
suffered from RA for 15 yearsand had failed eight medications
, unfortunately so, after shejoined the RESET-RA trial, she
reported dramatic improvementwithin a week, a week of
implantation oh my gosh, that'scrazy.
And now I know.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
That's more than just placebo.
I mean, it's not like, oh, I'vegot a thing and now I feel
better.
No, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, right, yeah, especially because now, two
years later, she says she feelsthe best that she has in decades
.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Which speaks volumes to how this thing is working.
She was previously feelingdebilitated and spending most of
her time in bed, and now sheenjoys walks and weekend trips.
We love that for her, I lovethat for her oh my gosh.
Shiner also spoke on the valueof clinical trial participation,
expressing pride in her role inadvancing medicine.
They need people like us to dothings like this and give it a
(25:02):
try, she said.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh, bless you, Steiner.
Oh Dawn, oh, I'm so glad you'refeeling better.
Thank you, Dawn.
Yes, Dawn Dawn.
Thank you, Dawn.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
She's from Massapequa so she talks like this, maybe a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Thank you, Dawn Dawn Steiner.
Listen, we need people like youand I'm glad you're feeling
better.
You know Power to the people.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Okay, back to the story.
I tried to do it like threehours later.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, three hours later.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Okay.
So authorities and Dr Talbotworked closely with the CDC for
the remainder of theinvestigation.
They knew that they needed toidentify all of the people who
were under David's care in allof the hospitals.
Identify all of the people whowere under David's care in all
of the hospitals.
Hospitals across the countrywere put on high alert.
If David had worked in theircath lab, every patient who had
(26:02):
come in under his care had to benotified.
The CDC recommended that morethan 12,000 patients seek
testing to determine whetherthey were infected Holy smokes.
That's a lot of people, that's alot of people, wow, and can you
imagine getting that letter inthe mail?
Hi, yeah, you might have beeninfected with hepatitis C when
(26:27):
you were here.
Please come get tested.
Like what the anxiety?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes, yeah.
So, it's my anxiety, anxiety.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Testing revealed that 32 patients who were treated at
Exeter Hospital, six patientswho were treated at Hayes
Medical Center in Kansas, sixpatients who were treated at
Johns Hopkins in Maryland andone patient who was treated at
the VA Medical Center inBaltimore, maryland, were
positive and carried a strain ofhepatitis C that had been
(27:01):
genetically linked to the viralstrain in which David was also
infected.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Douchebag.
Thanks, David.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
This was now the largest hepatitis C outbreak in
American history.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I mean, yeah, understandable, because it
should be gone.
Yeah, we shouldn't be dealingwith that anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Well, on july 15th 2012, 60 days into the federal
investigation, a major breakcame.
Law enforcement received a tipthat david had tried to harm
himself.
He was located in a hotel roomin boxborough, massachusetts.
Officers found him in a deeplydisturbed state, likely
intoxicated and definitelyexperiencing a mental health
(27:47):
crisis.
He was transported to thehospital emergency room for care
and while he received treatment, authorities obtained a search
warrant to search his car, whichobviously was still parked
outside of the hotel.
Inside of his car, they found asyringe labeled with a blue
sticker that was marked fentanyl, exactly like the ones that
(28:09):
were used at exeter hospital.
That's how they marked theirsyringes.
This was the breakthrough thatthey needed.
The syringe was tested and itcame back positive for David's
shitty DNA.
Oh, shock.
It placed him at the scene andtied him directly to the drugs
(28:33):
that were used at the hospital.
Authorities finally had whatthey called their smoking gun.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Their smoking fentanyl syringe yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
David was arrested at the hospital bedside.
Aw, wah, wah.
And it was only then that hestarted to confess.
Because he was caught, he saidshit, I guess I'll tell you what
he revealed was horrifying.
of course he had been stealingfentanyl, whichl, which again is
(29:04):
a powerful narcotic used inmany surgical and diagnostic
procedures.
While preparing for procedures,he would remove a pre filled
syringe of fentanyl, injecthimself with the drug and then
refill the syringe with saline.
The same syringe, now taintedwith blood, was slipped back
onto the medication lineup, ohGod.
(29:26):
But no one noticed, because thesyringes looked identical and
the substitution was invisibleto the human eye the fentanyl
that he had replaced with salinelaced with the virus.
They look the same, they'rejust clear liquid.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Oh my God, yeah they're just clear liquid.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Oh my God, yeah.
So he admitted to doing this athospitals across the country as
well, and he told investigatorsthat he had been stealing drugs
since at least 2003 andswapping syringes since at least
2008.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Oh my gosh.
First of all, not only is hepotentially killing people with
a virus, but they aren't gettingtheir fentanyl.
I mean, the fentanyl wasprescribed for people who need
to undergo procedures or are inextreme pain, so he's replacing
it with saline and a littlebonus virus Like exactly this is
(30:16):
disgusting.
That's horrible.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Horrifying, and it was noted through this
investigation that, like ahigher number of patients were
like in increased pain duringprocedures and they were like,
well, what the hell?
But they didn't know they weregetting saline.
They thought they were gettingfentanyl, absolutely yeah.
So then they would give themanother dose, seemingly, or so
(30:41):
they thought, of fentanyl, andthen they finally were like,
okay, that's a little better,but it's like, yeah, because you
got fucking saline the firsttime how traumatic for the
patients, not to mention therisk of the virus as well yeah,
absolutely.
authorities knew that it wasgoing to be difficult to
prosecute this fucker forinfecting patients with
(31:04):
hepatitis C, because provingintent in such a case would be
nearly impossible, but divertingcontrolled substances and
tampering with consumer productswould be an easy conviction.
He was formally charged withseven counts of obtaining
controlled substances by fraudand seven counts of tampering
with consumer products.
(31:24):
Each charge carried significantprison time and in total he
faced up to 100 years in federalprison.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Well, thank God for that.
Yeah, I mean we all know he'snot going to get anything close
to that, but no, I mean yeah,because we all know that he was
negligent in that he wasstealing the drugs and giving
people who needed painkillerssaline, even if he didn't know
which I doubt he didn't knowthat he was sick with hepatitis.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
C.
Well, he knew for at least thelast two years.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Oh, that's true.
Yeah, out of the five years,there were two years that he
knew.
You're right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Two plus because he was diagnosed in 2010.
And like I just feel like ifyou have hep C even if you don't
have hep C, you know that it'stransmitted by needles or bodily
fluid Probably know you'reputting those people at risk.
It just is sickening deal.
He agreed to plead guilty toall counts and also to a charge
(32:24):
that was brought forward byprosecutors in Kansas, which was
in connection to a patient'sdeath there.
His sentencing took place inDecember 2013.
One by one, victims and familymembers gave their statements in
court.
Many spoke of pain, betrayal,grief and lingering health
complications pain, betrayal,grief and lingering health
complications.
Some had forgiven them, othershad not.
(32:46):
David kept his eyes on thefloor.
I don't blame the families forhating me.
David later said, after hearing20-plus statements from people
infected and their relatives, Ihate myself.
He said Okie dokie.
He was sentenced to 39 years infederal prison.
Us Prosecutor John Kakavas saidthe 39-year sentence imposed
(33:12):
today ensures that this serialinfector will no longer be in
position to harm innocent andvulnerable people, extinguishing
once and for all the perniciousthreat he posed to health and
safety.
This prosecution surelyheightened public awareness of
the problem of drug diversion inmedical settings, and the
(33:33):
defendant's convictions andsentence represent a major step
forward in redressing thecatastrophic consequences of his
selfish and reckless behavior.
While no sentence ofincarceration can restore his
victims to their former state ofhealth, I hope that bringing
this defendant to swift andcertain justice will give them
(33:53):
some peace of mind as theyconfront the uncertainty of
living with the hepatitis Cvirus.
Special Agent in Charge,vincent Lissy of the FBI Boston
Field Division said this was aheinous crime that touched so
many of us in New Hampshire andin several states throughout the
country.
When you go into a hospital fortreatment, you should be able
(34:14):
to trust that someone like DavidKwiatkowski would not steal
pain medication intended for youand infect you with a deadly
disease instead.
Intended for you and infect youwith a deadly disease instead.
We are pleased to see justiceserved today and we hope that
this lengthy sentence will deterothers who might be tempted to
prey on vulnerable patients.
We are grateful to all thefederal, state and local
(34:34):
investigating agencies that tookpart in this unprecedented
investigation and to theleadership of both United States
Attorney John Kakavas andAssistant United States Attorney
John Farley, who workedtirelessly to bring justice to
the many victims of this case.
And, most of all, we are deeplythankful to the numerous
victims who selflessly sharedtheir time and extremely
(34:56):
personal information withinvestigators under such
difficult circumstances.
They are the true heroes inthis investigation.
Though faced with difficultcircumstances themselves, their
extraordinary cooperation andinformation were the backbone of
this investigation.
In addition to his terms ofincarceration, he will be placed
on supervised release for threeyears following his release
(35:18):
from prison.
When he is released in 2046,which, let's be honest, it'll
probably be before then but ifhe is in there until 2046, he
will be 61 years old at the timeof his release and he will be
permanently barred from workingwith any controlled substances.
In 2014, legislation was passedin the state of New Hampshire
(35:47):
that created the first everboard of registration for
medical technicians.
So for the first time,hospitals in the state had a
system to communicate with oneanother about the disciplinary
histories of techs and othertemporary healthcare workers.
It was a small but meaningfulstep towards accountability and
patient safety.
The public also began demandinganswers from the hospital that
(36:10):
had employed David.
Why had no red flags beenraised earlier?
As more information came out,it was discovered that some
hospitals had been suspicious ofhis behavior missing syringes,
erroneous conduct but had neverformally reported their concerns
.
Tale as old as time, onehospital even quietly let him go
without alerting futureemployers allowing him to
(36:33):
continue his pattern unchecked.
This culture of silence, youguys, has proved to be deadly.
It needs to stop.
If you see something, knock itoff.
Tell the truth, say something.
Yeah.
Medical experts and ethicistsbegan to weigh in.
The Kwiatkowski case exposednot just one man's failures, but
systemic weakness in the waytraveling medical staff are
(36:55):
vetted, tracked and heldaccountable.
Unlike doctors and nurses, manytechnicians operate in a gray
area, with fewer regulatorycontrols.
This made it easier for him tomove from hospital to hospital
undetected.
Meanwhile, patients continuedto suffer.
For those infected, the diseasebrought not just physical
illness but emotional trauma.
(37:17):
Hepatitis C is a chronicdisease that, if left untreated,
can cause liver damage, cancerand death.
Many victims faced years ofantiviral therapy, liver
monitoring and stigmatization.
Some had to delay organtransplant or chemotherapy due
to their new status asinfectious disease carriers,
which is so sad.
(37:40):
Some families sought legalrecourse.
Lawsuits were filed againstmultiple hospitals and staffing
agencies.
Some families receivedsettlements, but no amount of
money, of course, could undowhat had been done.
As for Lucy Starry, she passedaway at the age of 94.
Her family said that she madepeace with the situation and
that she had forgiven Davidbefore she died.
(38:01):
And that she had forgiven Davidbefore she died.
But her story and the storiesof the other 43 infected
patients remain a hauntingreminder of how a single
person's unchecked addiction canripple across the nation.
The David Kwiatkowski casestands as a testament to the
devastating potential of systemfailure.
It was not just one man's crime.
(38:22):
It was the result of ahealthcare staffing system that
lacked transparency, a patchworkof regulations and a reliance
on temporary professionals witha minimal oversight.
So thank God that we got thatsilver lining.
I didn't have time to look intoif any other states had adapted
this regulatory board.
(38:42):
Bates had adapted thisregulatory board, but it's been
what?
At least 10 years, 11 years now.
Since then.
I'm sure others followed suit.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, I mean.
People trust hospitals to be aplace of healing, not harm.
So when that trust is broken,it's not easily restored and his
name will eventually fade fromheadlines.
(39:03):
But yeah, his impact won't beforgotten anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
So the reign of terror is at least wow you know,
you think like okay, we, we'veknown about drug diversion.
I mean, this has probably beena thing since the dawn of drugs,
health care drugs, at least,and people who work with them.
But the fact that it's not justabout the diversion of drugs
(39:32):
and the fact that the person whoneeded the drug didn't get the
drug, but the fact that theperson who stole the drug is now
infecting the person who neededthe drug didn't get the drug
and now they got an infectioninstead, I mean it's just so
crazy and harmful and wrong.
And I mean people like you andme, who would never think about
(39:55):
this sort of thing, would neverthink that this is something
that could happen, so no wonderit took so long.
I mean, this is so recent.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
It's shocking that this is just coming up now it's
kind of like obviously he wasaddicted to the drugs.
So it's like, yeah, maybe hewasn't trying to actually harm
people.
Like I can see why they werelike we can't take the serial
killer angle in court becauselike that's gonna be impossible
to prove.
But it's the fact that actuallyyou did know that you were
(40:26):
diagnosed.
Like I just can't look at thatand he didn't know, because he
just needed it and then I'm yeah, you know, when you hear about
fentanyl you always hear aboutoverdoses and like how strong
and dangerous and everything.
But if he was getting just alittle syringe every now?
And then you know, not enoughto take him off the map.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
He's getting his specs, and the reason it was a
little syringe is because thepatients needed respite from
their chronic pain, fromwhatever they'd had their
procedure or whatever.
And then he add insult toinjury, not only are they in
greater pain, but now they'reexposed to infection and at the
(41:09):
time, there was no curative it'sdisgusting medication or
anything treatment yeah, yeah, Iguess I've always thought about
, oh, drug diversion.
That's terrible, because thenpatients aren't getting the
drugs they need, but like himreusing the needles and stuff,
like I'm like that's a double,double injury.
(41:31):
So let's hope that every statehas adopted the systems that
need to be in place to preventthis not only from happening,
but I mean, I think a lot'shappened with to prevent drug
diversion.
But you know, if someone hashepatitis c they should not be
(41:52):
in inpatient or niki or icusituations where people are
immunosuppressed, yes, exactlywhere people are exposed.
So, oh well, thank you forbringing that up.
That was fascinating.
I appreciate you.
Shall I do a sponsor too?
Sure, we have another sponsor.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
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That's a good discount.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
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and she agreed, they are so cuteand I don't know why I'm so
obsessed with the like how ittells which padded whatever to
put back in which side.
Yeah, Because you know whenthose things come out no, it's
like left sock, right sock.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
You're like what?
Speaker 2 (43:49):
yeah, no, I love that they're always like such a pain
in the neck to get back in andthen they're all freaking
lopsided, yeah.
And then you're like yourfreaking tits look all weird
because it's like you'refreaking just the little shits
in there wrong and you're likeit shouldn't be this freaking
heart.
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So honestly like that .
I feel like that's such a lipexactly.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
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which one to put where, and thenyour boobies aren't all
lopsided because the damn I know, I nobody does really honestly.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
But god, I'm just like thank you so much for
drilling that home I don't wantto be lopsided, okay uh, for
what?
I love that I love that listen.
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Just that, listen, dad, don't listen.
Oh, but I was the one that justsaid maybe they should make
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(45:00):
All right, so we have a medicalmishap on our hands.
Speaking of hands full, is thisfor me, hey, is this for me to
read?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yep, did you look at it yet?
Speaker 1 (45:14):
No, I mean, that would be cheating.
Oh, I didn't know.
No, no, I don't read, I don'tskip ahead.
So this all right.
So this email starts Hello, soI'm a physician assistant in an
ear, nose and throat office.
You guys know me personally,but this can be kept anonymous.
Crying, laughing emoji.
(45:35):
I was cleaning a gentleman'sears, which is pretty common in
an ENT practice.
This man previously had acochlear implant, which, for
anyone unaware, is a surgicallyimplanted device that allows
patients with severesensorineural hearing loss to
hear.
This is typically implantedthrough the back of the ear and
to the cochlea, so not normallyin an area that's accessible.
(45:58):
During an ear cleaning, whichinvolves only the ear canal and
maybe the eardrum, I wascleaning this gentleman's ear
and saw something that lookedlike a foreign body in his ear,
which should have been a redflag, knowing his history.
As I was grabbing the nearbypiece of wax, the mystery
material pulled out with it.
(46:19):
The patient, darn near, leaptoff the exam chair.
When I re-looked in his ear andsaw what was clearly a wire.
That's right, his cochlearimplant device had somehow
become displaced from hiscochlea and was poking through
his eardrum, which I then pulled.
Further through the eardrum.
I grabbed our nearestaudiologist, our dear friend
(46:48):
beep beep, our dear friend beepto confirm what I need to be
true.
I then called the surgeon, whowas thankfully able to get him
into the OR within a few daysand replace his device, and he
thankfully retained his hearing.
This was one of the worst daysof my seven years of working in
ear, nose and throat, but I'm sothankful that the patient
(47:10):
didn't lose his hearing fromthis incident.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
This individual sent me a picture of picture in the
ear canal and it makes youshudder.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, so this thing should be in the inner ear and
it was pulled out through theeardrum as it had migrated.
I will say I do happen to knowabout this case and this
individual is perfectly fine.
He did say that was the mosthorrific pain he's ever had in
his entire life.
I mean, he keeps coming back tous and I just told him listen,
(47:51):
dude, you know what?
Let's use mineral oil from nowon to clear the wax.
And he said I agree, Bless hisheart.
So it's all good.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Thank you for sharing your story with us Yikes.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yikes, yikes and Rooney.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
So, Jenna, what can our listeners expect to hear?
Speaker 1 (48:12):
next week.
Well, I don't know, I feel likeyour episode inspired me on the
whole serial infector businessand I'm thinking maybe I need to
go all old timey historical anddo Typhoid Mary.
What do you think?
Oh, yeah, you think.
I mean it's always fun to goback in history, yeah, okay,
(48:36):
maybe I'll do Typhoid.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Mary.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
All right.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
I love it, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
So until then, ellie cats, don't miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts For stories thatshock, intrigue and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at
doctoringthetruthatbuzzsproutcom, email us your story ideas and
(49:01):
comments at doctoringthetruth atgmail, and be sure to follow us
on Instagram atdoctoringthetruthpodcast, and on
Facebook at doctoringthetruth.
We're also on TikTok atdoctoringthetruth and edodpod,
so that's edodpod.
(49:30):
Don't forget to download rateand review so that we can be
sure to bring you more contentnext week.
Until then, stay safe and staysuspicious.
Bye, goodbye.
Amanda Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
How you doing Alley Cat.
I'm doing real spectacular.
How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Awesome, really good, good, good, good, really good
Happy Monday.
Happy Montag.
If you're German, Listen.
We have a new Belgian listener.
Oh, I think they speak Germanthere.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So uh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Happy Montag.
Ah, I've got nothing butwelcome.
Okay, I'll stop.
So, Amanda, did you have you?
You have?
You said we had to wait tillyou finished dinner, but I need
to know the Alleycast need toknow were Reese's Puffs involved
?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
nope, I had a real dinner.
My husband grilled.
It was good, delicious blessyour heart.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
You've gone all adulting on us I mean, I didn't
do anything.
That's what happens when youhave a hubby that likes to grill
.
Yes, good for him wonderfuladam, adam, you're the best, so
do we do.
We do the obligatory weatherdiscussion.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We could, because it's effing gorgeous outside.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It's.
I mean, I think this will be arare discussion, because
normally we have stuff tocomplain about, but the weather
has been gorgeous, so nice.
We're talking, the smoke iscleared, the humidity is down,
the temperature is moderate-ishto warm.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I'm loving it and it's like it's when you're in
the sunshine.
You're warm, but there's a coolbreeze.
Ugh, it's got me craving fallreal bad.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, the time of year when you can have your
windows open or you could sitout on the deck or patio without
a bug just munching down on youyeah, that's always nice any
who's.
All I was gonna say for thecorrection section not to
preempt our little banter.
(02:17):
We can keep answering if youwant, but our correction section
.
I was gonna say I did reach outto the company that had the top
pages have expired.
Well, consult last week's IMI,global IMI Top 12 Medical
(02:40):
Breakthroughs for Better Healththis 2025.
And I put the link to thewebsite in the show notes for
last week, and Amanda and I werelike puzzled as to what the eye
tracking technology to aidsurgical procedures was Like.
Are they excited?
Like their number?
(03:00):
This is what they judged astheir number one tech innovation
in 2025 is to like keepsurgeons on track or like I
don't know what this is.
So I couldn't find anything inany of their little blogs, so I
went to their contact us areaand I sent them a little please,
I would like to know more aboutwhat this number one eye
(03:22):
tracking technology actuallydoes in order to aid surgical
procedures and have not heardback.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So oh dang it.
I was like oh, my gosh, I lovethis.
What did they say?
But wah, wah, wah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I know, wah, wah, wah .
Well, I bring it up so we canstay interested in it, because
hopefully they'll get back to meand maybe we'll have something
to share.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So I did try to follow up yeah, okay, well, we
will wait for an update.
Yeah me or whatever, emmymedical stuff, please reply so
what are we talking about thisweek?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
my dear.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
well, so we're still not talking about the one that I
was working on forever now,because I'm still not done
reading the books that I have.
I will say that I had guests atmy house the last four days.
That's so hard, so that tooklike a big chunk of time and
(04:18):
obviously I didn't have time forreading.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, cause you can't just go.
Okay, talk amongst yourselves.
I'm, I'm reading you know yeahyeah.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So then I thought, okay, I can like have like part
of Sunday and Monday.
And then I opened the documentagain today and I was like, oh
my god, I only have five pagesstill and I have to read there's
I.
There's no way I can do this.
So, unfortunately for myself, Idid the same thing that I did
last week, which was do a casefrom start to finish.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Today, Yay Listen, you did a bang shoot job last
week.
I'm so excited to hear what wehave this week.
It just keeps us excited tohear what's coming in the future
, and we all know that you'rebasically doing such a deep dive
in the research.
We can't wait to hear aboutyour unique perspective on Jolly
(05:12):
Jane that we may not have heardin other cases, other coverings
of this case, your dedication.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I did say to myself lastweek I will not do that to
myself again, and here I wastoday and I told my husband I'm
not doing this to myself again.
So I hope that I do this casejustice and I hope that you guys
will all enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I'm sure you will, because there's something to be
said for you know, like whenyou're cramming for a test in
high school and you cram thenight before instead of just
like doing the way you'resupposed to, like slowly over
the weeks or whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, literally my educational career.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
If you cram yourself exactly Same, you're totally
immersed in it.
There's no one that's moreexpert in that subject than you,
because you have deep dived andlived and breathed it for that
full day or two days that you've.
I was going to say dove into it.
So bring it, girl.
What did your deep dive show us?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I will tell you after we hear from our first sponsor.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay.
Well, I have to tell ourlisteners our first sponsor I'm
really excited about, because,unless it's Reese's Puffs, my
favorite dinner is Indian food.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
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Speaker 2 (07:46):
That sounds so good right now, even though I just
ate dinner.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Indian food always sounds good.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Always All right.
Well, my friends, there is notime like the present to just
hop on in.
So shall we?
We shall, okay.
In the sterile corridors ofAmerican hospitals, patients
expect healing, professionalismand safety.
They trust medical personnelwith their lives, often
(08:15):
literally.
But what happens when thattrust is violated in the most
horrific way possible?
In this episode, we'll explorethe case of the largest
hepatitis C outbreak in Americanhistory.
Interesting, this case exploreshow actions can devastate lives
and even expose deep flaws inhospital oversight and national
(08:38):
hiring practices.
Among the heartbreaking storiesis that of Lucy Starry, a
beloved mother and grandmotherwho pursued life-extending heart
surgery, only to be given adeath sentence by someone who
should have never been allowednear a patient.
Oh, born in 1919 in Elmira, newYork, lucy Starry was the
(08:59):
daughter of Italian immigrantswho arrived in the United States
through Ellis Island, ofItalian immigrants who arrived
in the United States throughEllis Island.
Despite the challenges of a newlife in a new land, lucy grew
up with determination and hope.
She fell in love, married andraised four daughters.
Though she never had theopportunity to attend college
herself, she often shared withher girls her dream of becoming
(09:20):
a nurse.
Fittingly, two of them would goon to pursue that path,
dedicating their lives to theprofession she so admired.
Lucy remained in good health formost of her life, staying
active and independent well intoher 80s.
But when she began toexperience shortness of breath,
(09:43):
she was diagnosed with aorticstenosis, which is a narrowing
of the heart valve.
Her doctors recommended valvereplacement surgery, and Lucy
turned to her daughters,naturally, for advice.
One daughter, kathy, who hadworked as an operating room
nurse for 20 years.
She encouraged her mother to goforward with the procedure,
confident that Lucy's strengthand vitality would carry her
(10:05):
through.
Yes, kathy told her, you willdo great.
This will be a walk in the park.
In September 2009, lucy wasadmitted to Johns Hopkins
Hospital in Maryland for openheart surgery.
Before the valve replacement,doctors performed a routine
coronary stent placement in thecardiac catheterization lab.
(10:25):
Both procedures were successful.
Her cardiologist was optimistic, telling her the new valve
would likely give her at leastanother 10 good years of life.
Her the new valve would likelygive her at least another 10
good years of life.
Energized and hopeful, lucyrecovered well and seemed to be
on track for a new chapter ofhealth and independence.
Eight weeks after her surgery,in December of 2010, lucy
(10:47):
visited her local cardiologistfor routine follow-up labs.
The results were alarming.
Her liver enzymes wereabnormally elevated.
Further testing revealed aneven more shocking truth Lucy
had hepatitis C.
This news blindsided the family.
They were absolutely stunned.
(11:09):
Lucy had zero, no risk factors.
How could this have happened?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Oh my gosh.
No risk factors.
How?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
could this have happened?
Oh my gosh.
Hepatitis C is a serious viralinfection that primarily targets
the liver.
It is transmitted throughblood-to-blood contact.
The virus compromises theliver's ability to filter toxins
and fight infection.
In 2010, there were no effectivecurative treatments, meaning
thaty now faced a chronic,progressive illness with no
(11:36):
clear path to recovery.
Her daughters, who wereexperienced nurses, understood
the full gravity of thediagnosis, but shielded lucy
from the worst of it.
They were angry and confused,filled with guilt.
How did this happen, you know?
Had they made the wrong call,encouraging her to go to surgery
?
Kind of just feeling that likeguilt, like as you would, we
(11:59):
talked her mom into this right.
Well, lucy's quality of lifequickly deteriorated.
She became fatigued, her legsand abdomen swelled and her
liver was enlarged.
For someone so vibrant andactive it was was a devastating
change.
Her daughters racked theirbrains trying to determine how
she had been affected.
The most likely explanationpointed to her procedure at
(12:22):
Johns Hopkins.
But how could this havehappened at one of the most
prestigious hospitals in thecountry?
Hundreds of miles away inExeter, new Hampshire, another
doctor was asking similarquestions in Exeter, new
Hampshire, another doctor wasasking similar questions In May
2012, dr Tom Sherman, agastroenterologist at Exeter
Hospital, noticed somethingdisturbing.
(12:45):
Two of his elderly patients,both considered low risk, had
suddenly tested positive forhepatitis C.
The virus is not oh grew.
Three patients had contractedhepatitis C shortly after
undergoing routine procedures.
The hospital initiatedstaff-wide testing and they
(13:22):
found that one hospital employeehad also tested positive.
All four of these individualshad one thing in common they had
spent time in the hospital'scardiac cath lab.
In May 2012, the New HampshireDepartment of Health and Human
Services began a public healthinvestigation after it was
notified by Exeter Hospital ofthese four patients newly
(13:46):
diagnosed with hepatitis C.
Dr Elizabeth Talbot, a deputystate epidemiologist, was
notified of the cluster.
We typically see a couple ofcases of hepatitis C a year.
She explained A cluster likethis was deeply unusual and
deeply alarming.
Detailed reviews of the cathlabs operation turned up nothing
(14:07):
obviously wrong.
Sterilization and proceduralprotocols were being followed,
but all paths pointed towardsone shared space and potentially
one individual the employee.
When blood samples from allfour infected individuals were
tested for genotype, the resultswere damning.
Each person had the same rarestrain, hcv, genotype two.
(14:31):
That meant that they had allbeen infected by the same source
.
Dr Talbot knew that it was timeto loop in local authorities to
the case.
The investigation soon focusedon a medical technician named
David Kwiatkowski.
David previously worked as ahealthcare technician at several
(14:52):
medical facilities in Michiganbetween 2003 and 2007 and became
a traveling radiologictechnician using various
placement agencies to findemployment at medical facilities
in New York, pennsylvania,maryland, arizona, kansas,
georgia and New Hampshire A lotof places.
(15:12):
Mm-hmm, yeah, His work consistedof assisting physicians in the
cath lab and while he didn'thave formal access to controlled
medications, he was presentduring most procedures.
Some colleagues of his hadnoticed troubling signs for
years.
He often seemed sweaty, unwellor visibly altered.
(15:33):
He had needle marks andabscesses on his arms.
That raised concern.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
On multiple occasions he was asked to leave the room
because his bleeding abscesswounds were visible through his
clothing.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Which is absolutely disgusting.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
When asked about his condition by his colleagues, he
claimed he was undergoing cancertreatments, but that was
obviously a lie.
When questioned as part of theinvestigation, his colleagues
shared that they had discovereda fentanyl syringe in a public
bathroom near the lab.
Fentanyl is a powerful painmedication used during cath lab
(16:14):
procedures and is kept securelyin a Pyxis machine accessible
only through fingerprint ID.
David did not have access tothis machine, so how could he be
getting access if there werefoul play involved?
The thing was he wasn't withoutan opportunity.
Investigators suspected that hehad been stealing syringes that
were prepared for patients,injecting himself and replacing
(16:37):
them empty or, even worse,refilling syringes and putting
them back onto the proceduraltree.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
On.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
June 13, 2012,.
David was brought in forquestioning.
He, of course, deniedeverything and claimed to be a
victim himself.
He said that he didn't knowthat he had hepatitis C.
He was questioned about hisbehavior in the cath lab and
about possible drug diversion.
David explained that he hadhealth issues, that you know he
(17:05):
had cancer.
He used this to explain his oddbehaviors and denied any sort
of wrongdoing.
At that time, authorities hadreports of unusual conduct, but
not criminal conduct, and theywould need solid evidence to
support criminal conduct.
Of course, as the days went on,the number of hepatitis C cases
(17:26):
was rising.
The epidemiology team wentthrough patient records,
cross-referenced with hisschedule, to see how many
patients had received procedureswhen David was present.
They tested more than 1,200patients and found that 32 of
them were positive 32.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Every time someone was infected at the hospital,
David was present.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
With the alarming number of patients identified,
it begged the question if thiswas bigger than the community of
Exeter.
Where did he work prior toExeter Hospital?
Digging into his work, historyrevealed an even darker picture.
Over the course of nine years,david had worked in 16 hospitals
, across seven states.
(18:12):
Oh my goodness, this is howpandemics start in 2008, he had
been caught at the university ofpittsburgh lifting his shirt
and injecting fentanyl, butdenied any wrongdoing and
quietly moved on oh my gosh inarizona.
(18:32):
He was found unresponsive in ahospital bathroom with a syringe
floating in the toilet, andwhen help arrived he quickly
flushed it down before anyonecould collect evidence.
And then the final pieceRecords showed that David had
been diagnosed with hepatitis Cin 2010 while working in Kansas,
so he had known for at leasttwo years that he was infected
(18:56):
and kept working with needlesanyway.
This discovery changedeverything for the case, and it
was also time for the CDC to belooped in on what was going on.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I mean this is criminal, am I right?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, because they were like well, maybe he didn't
like, maybe he is just doingdrug diversion.
He didn't know he had hep C.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But even well, maybe he didn't like maybe he is just
doing drug diversion.
He didn't know he had Hep C,but even drug diversion he
didn't.
He didn't pay any consequencesfor that Right, which would have
at least prevented him fromcontinuing to harm people.
Oh my gosh.
Yes, this is crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And it was just like oh, I might be getting in
trouble here, so I'm just goingto slip away into the night and
go get a job somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I mean, I can see where it happens, where people
are, or people, hospitals orhealth care places are
chronically understaffed, and sothey do these ad hoc staffing
situations, these per diemsituations.
How would you keep track ofthat across multiple places?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
especially when it's a position that we'll get into a
little bit later.
But it's not a board certifiedor like there's not a board that
manages this type of position,so like if there were any
disciplinary action right, thatdoesn't follow you because
you're not under a regulatoryboard.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oh God, Okay.
Well, I hope that we find outthat this changes, but I don't
know Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
To carry on?
Yes, but before we get moreinto that, we are headed into
the chart notes segment.
I was going to join.
I was going to join.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I preempted you.
Where were we headed, amanda,into the chart Chart Note.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
That felt nice.
Welcome to the chart notesegment, where we learn about
what's happening in medicine andhealthcare.
So just a quick note becauseyou may be curious if there is a
treatment for hepatitis C now,in 2025.
The answer is yes, there is.
Hepatitis C is generallycurable with direct acting
(21:06):
antivirals or DAA medicationsthat are taken orally.
The treatment is typicallyeight to 12 weeks and cures over
95% of patients.
Yay, yay, this is usuallywithout significant side effects
and, of course, treatment canbe longer depending on
individual factors.
But yay, yay, goodness.
(21:27):
So okay, let's get into thechart note, which is also
exciting news, yay.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yay, another yay.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yay, yay, yay, yay, Yay.
Another yay, yay, yay, yay.
So Northwell Health recentlyconducted a groundbreaking
clinical trial using a vagusnerve implanted chip to treat
rheumatoid arthritis Nice, whichI will call RA now.
This innovation, known as asthe Setpoint system, is the
first technology of its kind andhas now received FDA approval
as of July 31.
(22:01):
So like Ooh, fresh, yes, acouple of days ago.
And so that made it eligiblefor prescription use.
Dr Kevin Tracy, president andCEO of the Finsteinutes for
Medical Research at Northwell,emphasized the novelty of the
approach, stating that doctorstraditionally think of treating
(22:21):
RA with pills, injections orphysical therapy, but now they
can consider a computer chip asan option.
Developed by Setpoint Medical,the system is a neuroimmune
modulation platform designed forpatients with moderate to
severe RA who haven't respondedwell to conventional therapies.
The chip stimulates the vagusnerve once daily, triggering the
(22:44):
body's anti-inflammatory andimmune restorative pathways.
Murthy Simbaltha, ceo ofSetpoint Medical, called the
approval a transformativemilestone.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
How cool is the name Murthy, murthy, murthy.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Y'all love it and we're going to focus on Murthy,
because there's so manyconsonants in the last name, so
let's restart that, friends.
Murthy S, who's the CEO ofSetpoint Medical, called the
approval a transformativemilestone in autoimmune disease
management.
The system will roll out inselect US cities this year, with
(23:24):
plans for nationwide expansionin early 2026.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I mean, I think his last name is Simhamblata.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Simhamblata Blah.
Yeah, exactly, simham BlattaBlatta.
Wow Okay, I'll cut all that out.
You did a good job, simhamBlatta.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, yeah, what she said.
So Northwell Health hosted theclinical trial as its newly
opened Center for BioelectronicMedicine, where the device
showed positive patient outcomesfor bioelectronic medicine.
Where the device showedpositive patient outcomes.
One patient is Don Steiner, a58-year-old speech and language
pathologist from Massapequa,massapequa, massapequa, who
(24:05):
suffered from RA for 15 yearsand had failed eight medications
, unfortunately so, after shejoined the RESET-RA trial, she
reported dramatic improvementwithin a week, a week of
implantation oh my gosh, that'scrazy.
And now I know.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
That's more than just placebo.
I mean, it's not like, oh, I'vegot a thing and now I feel
better.
No, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, right, yeah, especially because now, two
years later, she says she feelsthe best that she has in decades
.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Which speaks volumes to how this thing is working.
She was previously feelingdebilitated and spending most of
her time in bed, and now sheenjoys walks and weekend trips.
We love that for her, I lovethat for her oh my gosh.
Shiner also spoke on the valueof clinical trial participation,
expressing pride in her role inadvancing medicine.
They need people like us to dothings like this and give it a
(25:02):
try, she said.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh, bless you, Steiner.
Oh Dawn, oh, I'm so glad you'refeeling better.
Thank you, Dawn.
Yes, Dawn Dawn.
Thank you, Dawn.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
She's from Massapequa so she talks like this, maybe a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Thank you, Dawn Dawn Steiner.
Listen, we need people like youand I'm glad you're feeling
better.
You know Power to the people.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Okay, back to the story.
I tried to do it like threehours later.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, three hours later.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Okay.
So authorities and Dr Talbotworked closely with the CDC for
the remainder of theinvestigation.
They knew that they needed toidentify all of the people who
were under David's care in allof the hospitals.
Identify all of the people whowere under David's care in all
of the hospitals.
Hospitals across the countrywere put on high alert.
If David had worked in theircath lab, every patient who had
(26:02):
come in under his care had to benotified.
The CDC recommended that morethan 12,000 patients seek
testing to determine whetherthey were infected Holy smokes.
That's a lot of people, that's alot of people, wow, and can you
imagine getting that letter inthe mail?
Hi, yeah, you might have beeninfected with hepatitis C when
(26:27):
you were here.
Please come get tested.
Like what the anxiety?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes, yeah.
So, it's my anxiety, anxiety.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Testing revealed that 32 patients who were treated at
Exeter Hospital, six patientswho were treated at Hayes
Medical Center in Kansas, sixpatients who were treated at
Johns Hopkins in Maryland andone patient who was treated at
the VA Medical Center inBaltimore, maryland, were
positive and carried a strain ofhepatitis C that had been
(27:01):
genetically linked to the viralstrain in which David was also
infected.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Douchebag.
Thanks, David.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
This was now the largest hepatitis C outbreak in
American history.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I mean, yeah, understandable, because it
should be gone.
Yeah, we shouldn't be dealingwith that anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Well, on july 15th 2012, 60 days into the federal
investigation, a major breakcame.
Law enforcement received a tipthat david had tried to harm
himself.
He was located in a hotel roomin boxborough, massachusetts.
Officers found him in a deeplydisturbed state, likely
intoxicated and definitelyexperiencing a mental health
(27:47):
crisis.
He was transported to thehospital emergency room for care
and while he received treatment, authorities obtained a search
warrant to search his car, whichobviously was still parked
outside of the hotel.
Inside of his car, they found asyringe labeled with a blue
sticker that was marked fentanyl, exactly like the ones that
(28:09):
were used at exeter hospital.
That's how they marked theirsyringes.
This was the breakthrough thatthey needed.
The syringe was tested and itcame back positive for David's
shitty DNA.
Oh, shock.
It placed him at the scene andtied him directly to the drugs
(28:33):
that were used at the hospital.
Authorities finally had whatthey called their smoking gun.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Their smoking fentanyl syringe yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
David was arrested at the hospital bedside.
Aw, wah, wah.
And it was only then that hestarted to confess.
Because he was caught, he saidshit, I guess I'll tell you what
he revealed was horrifying.
of course he had been stealingfentanyl, whichl, which again is
(29:04):
a powerful narcotic used inmany surgical and diagnostic
procedures.
While preparing for procedures,he would remove a pre filled
syringe of fentanyl, injecthimself with the drug and then
refill the syringe with saline.
The same syringe, now taintedwith blood, was slipped back
onto the medication lineup, ohGod.
(29:26):
But no one noticed, because thesyringes looked identical and
the substitution was invisibleto the human eye the fentanyl
that he had replaced with salinelaced with the virus.
They look the same, they'rejust clear liquid.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Oh my God, yeah they're just clear liquid.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Oh my God, yeah.
So he admitted to doing this athospitals across the country as
well, and he told investigatorsthat he had been stealing drugs
since at least 2003 andswapping syringes since at least
2008.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Oh my gosh.
First of all, not only is hepotentially killing people with
a virus, but they aren't gettingtheir fentanyl.
I mean, the fentanyl wasprescribed for people who need
to undergo procedures or are inextreme pain, so he's replacing
it with saline and a littlebonus virus Like exactly this is
(30:16):
disgusting.
That's horrible.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Horrifying, and it was noted through this
investigation that, like ahigher number of patients were
like in increased pain duringprocedures and they were like,
well, what the hell?
But they didn't know they weregetting saline.
They thought they were gettingfentanyl, absolutely yeah.
So then they would give themanother dose, seemingly, or so
(30:41):
they thought, of fentanyl, andthen they finally were like,
okay, that's a little better,but it's like, yeah, because you
got fucking saline the firsttime how traumatic for the
patients, not to mention therisk of the virus as well yeah,
absolutely.
authorities knew that it wasgoing to be difficult to
prosecute this fucker forinfecting patients with
(31:04):
hepatitis C, because provingintent in such a case would be
nearly impossible, but divertingcontrolled substances and
tampering with consumer productswould be an easy conviction.
He was formally charged withseven counts of obtaining
controlled substances by fraudand seven counts of tampering
with consumer products.
(31:24):
Each charge carried significantprison time and in total he
faced up to 100 years in federalprison.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Well, thank God for that.
Yeah, I mean we all know he'snot going to get anything close
to that, but no, I mean yeah,because we all know that he was
negligent in that he wasstealing the drugs and giving
people who needed painkillerssaline, even if he didn't know
which I doubt he didn't knowthat he was sick with hepatitis.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
C.
Well, he knew for at least thelast two years.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Oh, that's true.
Yeah, out of the five years,there were two years that he
knew.
You're right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Two plus because he was diagnosed in 2010.
And like I just feel like ifyou have hep C even if you don't
have hep C, you know that it'stransmitted by needles or bodily
fluid Probably know you'reputting those people at risk.
It just is sickening deal.
He agreed to plead guilty toall counts and also to a charge
(32:24):
that was brought forward byprosecutors in Kansas, which was
in connection to a patient'sdeath there.
His sentencing took place inDecember 2013.
One by one, victims and familymembers gave their statements in
court.
Many spoke of pain, betrayal,grief and lingering health
complications pain, betrayal,grief and lingering health
complications.
Some had forgiven them, othershad not.
(32:46):
David kept his eyes on thefloor.
I don't blame the families forhating me.
David later said, after hearing20-plus statements from people
infected and their relatives, Ihate myself.
He said Okie dokie.
He was sentenced to 39 years infederal prison.
Us Prosecutor John Kakavas saidthe 39-year sentence imposed
(33:12):
today ensures that this serialinfector will no longer be in
position to harm innocent andvulnerable people, extinguishing
once and for all the perniciousthreat he posed to health and
safety.
This prosecution surelyheightened public awareness of
the problem of drug diversion inmedical settings, and the
(33:33):
defendant's convictions andsentence represent a major step
forward in redressing thecatastrophic consequences of his
selfish and reckless behavior.
While no sentence ofincarceration can restore his
victims to their former state ofhealth, I hope that bringing
this defendant to swift andcertain justice will give them
(33:53):
some peace of mind as theyconfront the uncertainty of
living with the hepatitis Cvirus.
Special Agent in Charge,vincent Lissy of the FBI Boston
Field Division said this was aheinous crime that touched so
many of us in New Hampshire andin several states throughout the
country.
When you go into a hospital fortreatment, you should be able
(34:14):
to trust that someone like DavidKwiatkowski would not steal
pain medication intended for youand infect you with a deadly
disease instead.
Intended for you and infect youwith a deadly disease instead.
We are pleased to see justiceserved today and we hope that
this lengthy sentence will deterothers who might be tempted to
prey on vulnerable patients.
We are grateful to all thefederal, state and local
(34:34):
investigating agencies that tookpart in this unprecedented
investigation and to theleadership of both United States
Attorney John Kakavas andAssistant United States Attorney
John Farley, who workedtirelessly to bring justice to
the many victims of this case.
And, most of all, we are deeplythankful to the numerous
victims who selflessly sharedtheir time and extremely
(34:56):
personal information withinvestigators under such
difficult circumstances.
They are the true heroes inthis investigation.
Though faced with difficultcircumstances themselves, their
extraordinary cooperation andinformation were the backbone of
this investigation.
In addition to his terms ofincarceration, he will be placed
on supervised release for threeyears following his release
(35:18):
from prison.
When he is released in 2046,which, let's be honest, it'll
probably be before then but ifhe is in there until 2046, he
will be 61 years old at the timeof his release and he will be
permanently barred from workingwith any controlled substances.
In 2014, legislation was passedin the state of New Hampshire
(35:47):
that created the first everboard of registration for
medical technicians.
So for the first time,hospitals in the state had a
system to communicate with oneanother about the disciplinary
histories of techs and othertemporary healthcare workers.
It was a small but meaningfulstep towards accountability and
patient safety.
The public also began demandinganswers from the hospital that
(36:10):
had employed David.
Why had no red flags beenraised earlier?
As more information came out,it was discovered that some
hospitals had been suspicious ofhis behavior missing syringes,
erroneous conduct but had neverformally reported their concerns
.
Tale as old as time, onehospital even quietly let him go
without alerting futureemployers allowing him to
(36:33):
continue his pattern unchecked.
This culture of silence, youguys, has proved to be deadly.
It needs to stop.
If you see something, knock itoff.
Tell the truth, say something.
Yeah.
Medical experts and ethicistsbegan to weigh in.
The Kwiatkowski case exposednot just one man's failures, but
systemic weakness in the waytraveling medical staff are
(36:55):
vetted, tracked and heldaccountable.
Unlike doctors and nurses, manytechnicians operate in a gray
area, with fewer regulatorycontrols.
This made it easier for him tomove from hospital to hospital
undetected.
Meanwhile, patients continuedto suffer.
For those infected, the diseasebrought not just physical
illness but emotional trauma.
(37:17):
Hepatitis C is a chronicdisease that, if left untreated,
can cause liver damage, cancerand death.
Many victims faced years ofantiviral therapy, liver
monitoring and stigmatization.
Some had to delay organtransplant or chemotherapy due
to their new status asinfectious disease carriers,
which is so sad.
(37:40):
Some families sought legalrecourse.
Lawsuits were filed againstmultiple hospitals and staffing
agencies.
Some families receivedsettlements, but no amount of
money, of course, could undowhat had been done.
As for Lucy Starry, she passedaway at the age of 94.
Her family said that she madepeace with the situation and
that she had forgiven Davidbefore she died.
(38:01):
And that she had forgiven Davidbefore she died.
But her story and the storiesof the other 43 infected
patients remain a hauntingreminder of how a single
person's unchecked addiction canripple across the nation.
The David Kwiatkowski casestands as a testament to the
devastating potential of systemfailure.
It was not just one man's crime.
(38:22):
It was the result of ahealthcare staffing system that
lacked transparency, a patchworkof regulations and a reliance
on temporary professionals witha minimal oversight.
So thank God that we got thatsilver lining.
I didn't have time to look intoif any other states had adapted
this regulatory board.
(38:42):
Bates had adapted thisregulatory board, but it's been
what?
At least 10 years, 11 years now.
Since then.
I'm sure others followed suit.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, I mean.
People trust hospitals to be aplace of healing, not harm.
So when that trust is broken,it's not easily restored and his
name will eventually fade fromheadlines.
(39:03):
But yeah, his impact won't beforgotten anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
So the reign of terror is at least wow you know,
you think like okay, we, we'veknown about drug diversion.
I mean, this has probably beena thing since the dawn of drugs,
health care drugs, at least,and people who work with them.
But the fact that it's not justabout the diversion of drugs
(39:32):
and the fact that the person whoneeded the drug didn't get the
drug, but the fact that theperson who stole the drug is now
infecting the person who neededthe drug didn't get the drug
and now they got an infectioninstead, I mean it's just so
crazy and harmful and wrong.
And I mean people like you andme, who would never think about
(39:55):
this sort of thing, would neverthink that this is something
that could happen, so no wonderit took so long.
I mean, this is so recent.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
It's shocking that this is just coming up now it's
kind of like obviously he wasaddicted to the drugs.
So it's like, yeah, maybe hewasn't trying to actually harm
people.
Like I can see why they werelike we can't take the serial
killer angle in court becauselike that's gonna be impossible
to prove.
But it's the fact that actuallyyou did know that you were
(40:26):
diagnosed.
Like I just can't look at thatand he didn't know, because he
just needed it and then I'm yeah, you know, when you hear about
fentanyl you always hear aboutoverdoses and like how strong
and dangerous and everything.
But if he was getting just alittle syringe every now?
And then you know, not enoughto take him off the map.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
He's getting his specs, and the reason it was a
little syringe is because thepatients needed respite from
their chronic pain, fromwhatever they'd had their
procedure or whatever.
And then he add insult toinjury, not only are they in
greater pain, but now they'reexposed to infection and at the
(41:09):
time, there was no curative it'sdisgusting medication or
anything treatment yeah, yeah, Iguess I've always thought about
, oh, drug diversion.
That's terrible, because thenpatients aren't getting the
drugs they need, but like himreusing the needles and stuff,
like I'm like that's a double,double injury.
(41:31):
So let's hope that every statehas adopted the systems that
need to be in place to preventthis not only from happening,
but I mean, I think a lot'shappened with to prevent drug
diversion.
But you know, if someone hashepatitis c they should not be
(41:52):
in inpatient or niki or icusituations where people are
immunosuppressed, yes, exactlywhere people are exposed.
So, oh well, thank you forbringing that up.
That was fascinating.
I appreciate you.
Shall I do a sponsor too?
Sure, we have another sponsor.
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(43:19):
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Speaker 1 (43:25):
That's a good discount.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yay, I showed one of my friends the bras last week
and she agreed, they are so cuteand I don't know why I'm so
obsessed with the like how ittells which padded whatever to
put back in which side.
Yeah, Because you know whenthose things come out no, it's
like left sock, right sock.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
You're like what?
Speaker 2 (43:49):
yeah, no, I love that they're always like such a pain
in the neck to get back in andthen they're all freaking
lopsided, yeah.
And then you're like yourfreaking tits look all weird
because it's like you'refreaking just the little shits
in there wrong and you're likeit shouldn't be this freaking
heart.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
So honestly like that .
I feel like that's such a lipexactly.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
You can just hold up your little hand and you know
which one to put where, and thenyour boobies aren't all
lopsided because the damn I know, I nobody does really honestly.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
But god, I'm just like thank you so much for
drilling that home I don't wantto be lopsided, okay uh, for
what?
I love that I love that listen.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
You don't want your high beams on, but you don't
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Handful spent, send me aspecial coupon you deserve it.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Just that, listen, dad, don't listen.
Oh, but I was the one that justsaid maybe they should make
guys stuff, that is, you know,left and right and whatever.
So awesome, thank you To oursponsor.
Maybe we've come up with morehandful ideas.
(45:00):
All right, so we have a medicalmishap on our hands.
Speaking of hands full, is thisfor me, hey, is this for me to
read?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yep, did you look at it yet?
Speaker 1 (45:14):
No, I mean, that would be cheating.
Oh, I didn't know.
No, no, I don't read, I don'tskip ahead.
So this all right.
So this email starts Hello, soI'm a physician assistant in an
ear, nose and throat office.
You guys know me personally,but this can be kept anonymous.
Crying, laughing emoji.
(45:35):
I was cleaning a gentleman'sears, which is pretty common in
an ENT practice.
This man previously had acochlear implant, which, for
anyone unaware, is a surgicallyimplanted device that allows
patients with severesensorineural hearing loss to
hear.
This is typically implantedthrough the back of the ear and
to the cochlea, so not normallyin an area that's accessible.
(45:58):
During an ear cleaning, whichinvolves only the ear canal and
maybe the eardrum, I wascleaning this gentleman's ear
and saw something that lookedlike a foreign body in his ear,
which should have been a redflag, knowing his history.
As I was grabbing the nearbypiece of wax, the mystery
material pulled out with it.
(46:19):
The patient, darn near, leaptoff the exam chair.
When I re-looked in his ear andsaw what was clearly a wire.
That's right, his cochlearimplant device had somehow
become displaced from hiscochlea and was poking through
his eardrum, which I then pulled.
Further through the eardrum.
I grabbed our nearestaudiologist, our dear friend
(46:48):
beep beep, our dear friend beepto confirm what I need to be
true.
I then called the surgeon, whowas thankfully able to get him
into the OR within a few daysand replace his device, and he
thankfully retained his hearing.
This was one of the worst daysof my seven years of working in
ear, nose and throat, but I'm sothankful that the patient
(47:10):
didn't lose his hearing fromthis incident.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
This individual sent me a picture of picture in the
ear canal and it makes youshudder.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, so this thing should be in the inner ear and
it was pulled out through theeardrum as it had migrated.
I will say I do happen to knowabout this case and this
individual is perfectly fine.
He did say that was the mosthorrific pain he's ever had in
his entire life.
I mean, he keeps coming back tous and I just told him listen,
(47:51):
dude, you know what?
Let's use mineral oil from nowon to clear the wax.
And he said I agree, Bless hisheart.
So it's all good.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Thank you for sharing your story with us Yikes.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yikes, yikes and Rooney.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
So, Jenna, what can our listeners expect to hear?
Speaker 1 (48:12):
next week.
Well, I don't know, I feel likeyour episode inspired me on the
whole serial infector businessand I'm thinking maybe I need to
go all old timey historical anddo Typhoid Mary.
What do you think?
Oh, yeah, you think.
I mean it's always fun to goback in history, yeah, okay,
(48:36):
maybe I'll do Typhoid.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Mary.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
All right.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
I love it, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
So until then, ellie cats, don't miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts For stories thatshock, intrigue and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at
doctoringthetruthatbuzzsproutcom, email us your story ideas and
(49:01):
comments at doctoringthetruth atgmail, and be sure to follow us
on Instagram atdoctoringthetruthpodcast, and on
Facebook at doctoringthetruth.
We're also on TikTok atdoctoringthetruth and edodpod,
so that's edodpod.
(49:30):
Don't forget to download rateand review so that we can be
sure to bring you more contentnext week.
Until then, stay safe and staysuspicious.
Bye, goodbye.
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