Ep 35-Milk of Amnesia, Michael Jackson's Killer

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A panicked phone call, a birthday detour, and an orange tree set the stage for a darker question we can’t ignore: what happens when medicine bends to fame? We trace Michael Jackson’s path from Gary’s crowded rooms to global icon, then into the sleepless spiral that ended with propofol in a mansion and a 20-minute delay that medicine cannot forgive. 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Um Anna.

SPEAKER_03 (00:03):
Ooh.

unknown (00:04):
Hi, Jenna.

SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
Hello.
If that came out extra musical,it's because tis the occasion,
tis the episode, to be musical.
Ooh, how are you doing, Carly?

SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
Doing good, doing good.
Taylor's new albums out, justliving my showgirl life.

SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Oh, bless.

SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Not you.

SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
Yeah.
Well, we're a little late torecord tonight because I'm gonna
try and make this quick, but ohgosh.
My birthday is in a few days.
Yeah.
That's not the bad thing.
But um, so just that's thebackground.
I get this, so I'm on my wayhome.
I have a 45-minute commute, andI'm like, so those of you in

(00:49):
Minnesota know where St.
Peter is.
It's halfway between where Iwork and where I live.
So I'm cruising through St.
Peter, and I'm about fiveminutes out of St.
Peter, probably 20 minutes fromhome, and I get this panicked
call from my ex-husband, who hadsupposedly been taking my
daughter to her appointment, herdoctor's appointment.

(01:11):
And he's like, turn around, turnaround, because he's tracking,
you know, we track each other.
Turn around, we need you, weneed your help.
And I was like, wait, what?
He goes, We need your help, weneed your help.
We're on the side of thehighway.
No, no, no, no, no.
We need your help.
I said, What?
Oh my god, what happened?
We just need your help.
So here I am.
I mean, I'm a mom.

(01:32):
I'm thinking, oh my god, he's onthe side of the highway.
I need to make a rapid U-turn ona highway, which is really hard
to do.
Obviously, my daughter's dead.

SPEAKER_02 (01:43):
I mean, you're like, there's no information about my
daughter yet.

SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
And because I'm laughing, you know that that's
not true.
But at the time, I mean, myheart, I could hardly breathe.
I was like, he's not obviouslytelling me what's happening
because he wants you to getthere safely.

SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
Turned around.

SPEAKER_00 (02:00):
You know, she's under a truck or something, like
something happened, you know.
And I was sweating and crying,and I made a U-turn and I buzzed
back there.

SPEAKER_04 (02:11):
Oh, Jenna!

SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
You know what it was?
They had gone to a nursery, likegarden nursery, to buy me a
present for my birthday, whichis a it was supposed to be a
surprise, but it didn't fit inhis Audi.
So it was an orange tree thatdidn't fit in his Audi.
So they needed to put it in mycar.

(02:34):
But he wanted to maintain thesurprise element, which he
genuinely did because I thoughtmy daughter was dead.

SPEAKER_02 (02:42):
Yeah, I would say a little negative undertones, but
certainly surprised.

SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
I know that's not what he intended, but I was like
so distraught that all I coulddo was hug my daughter and be
like, yeah, the tree.
Uh-huh.
Savannah, you're okay.
Thanks for the tree, you guys.

SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
I'm so happy everything.

SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
By the way, the tree's amazing.
Like, we live in Minnesota, andso I'm gonna have an inside
orange tree, like a rich person.
I mean, I am so enamored.
It smells so good.
She's already got she's a she,by the way.

SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
Obviously, she produces things.

SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
She's already got little green goblets of right,
little green goblets of babyoranges all over her, and she
smells so good, and she's huge.
So no wonder it didn't fit inhis dumb outie.

SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
But happy early birthday to you.

SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Happy birthday to me a few days early.
And also, thank you.
But I lost about 10 years of mylife thinking my daughter was
under a truck or something onthe side of the road, and all
yeah, that was bad.
My ex could say to me was, Well,I think you listen to too much
true crime.
Listen.

SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
No, I can can uh confirm that's not it.

SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Yeah, anyway, so I'm here.
I'm here, I'll be a little bitlate, and plus an orange tree as
part of our family.

SPEAKER_02 (04:05):
So well, I love that.
I love that it had a happyending with the orange tree, and
not I was like, oh my god, whatis she about to tell us?
Because she texts me, like, hey,I'm getting home a little late.
Do you want and I'm like, well,yeah, of course I want to record
sooner than later, but like takeyour time.
To which she, of course, thoughtwas me being like cheeky.
And I was like, no, seriously,take your time.
But I didn't know she had ascare that her daughter might

(04:26):
have died on the side of thehighway.

SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
I mean, I might have jumped a little gotten there,
but I mean, what would you thinkif if your ex is not telling you
anybody's mind would do thereason why and your daughter's
not on the phone and they're onthe side of the highway and they
need your help?
Yeah, no.
Speaking of cheeky, I love thatyou said cheeky because guess

(04:49):
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SPEAKER_02 (06:31):
That's such a cute name.
I love it.

SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
Isn't it?
That's adorable.
I just glossed right over thecorrection section.
Do you do you have anything?
Because it was your episode, soI doubt there's anything, but is
there anything?

SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
Um, you know what?
There was something when Ilistened to it back, but I can't
remember what it is right now.
It was something I said where Iwas like, no way, lady.
I can't remember that.

SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Must not be that glaring.
I'm sure it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 (06:59):
Nobody texted you about it.

SPEAKER_00 (07:01):
Maybe they were just that's the litmus test, right?
Yeah.
Resources will be listed in ourshow notes, and I don't really
have any trigger warnings forthis episode.
It's gonna be fun, I think.
But today we're talking aboutthriller.
Thrilla.

(07:23):
You know who I'm talking about.
Thriller! Michael Jackson.
Oh, but sadly, I mean We shouldhave had that.

SPEAKER_02 (07:33):
We should have had that keyed up, ready to go, and
went Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:40):
And then can we do that without getting sued?
Okay.
Well then, like how many secondscan we get away with how your
editor can come in and add alittle clip later on.
Okay, listeners, if we can if wecan throw a little a little MJ
action your way, we will.

(08:00):
The greatest.
Greatest.
Oh yeah, I do remember it startsout three.
Yeah, it starts out creepy.

(10:23):
I mean, it just gives me tillsevery time to this day.
So yeah.
I don't know being a zombie thezombie head wag.
Yeah.
I mean, how can a man like thisdie alone?
Surrounded by syringes, IVdrips, and a desperate doctor

(10:44):
with a stethoscope in one handand a paycheck in the other.
I mean, it's devastating.
Let's go back to where itstarted.
So, Gary, Indiana, Gary,Indiana, Gary, Indiana, my home,
sweet home.
That is a call out to those ofyou who like musicals.
He was born in Gary in the1960s.

(11:07):
A two-bedroom house packed with10 kids.
Can you imagine?
10 kids in two bedrooms?
You do the math.
I mean, that's 10 kids in one.
I mean, it was my house, 10 kidsin one room.
Because my man and I aresleeping in one room.
You guys need to fight foryourselves.
But seriously, though,two-bedroom house.

SPEAKER_04 (11:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
You could call it humble beginnings, but that
implies comfort.
I mean, there was no comfort inthat situation.
It was survival all the way.
The Jackson family wasn't borninto fame.
They clawed their way to it noteby note under the watchful eye
and the iron hand of JosephJackson, the kind of father who
believed belts were bettermotivators than bedtime stories,

(11:52):
if you know what I mean.
And out of that chaos rose avoice that didn't sound human.
Michael's voice.
Angelic, elastic, heartbreaking.
At 10 years old, he was alreadythe frontman of the Jackson 5,
standing under hot stage lightsand matching polyester while

(12:14):
record executives noddedapprovingly.
That voice, that face, thatenergy, it made money.
And once the world smelledprofit, childhood was optional.
Fame as so many others in hisfootsteps that were young stars,
fame swallowed him whole.

(12:35):
By the 1980s, he wasn't justfamous, he was fame incarnate.
Thriller sold more copies thanthere were people in some
countries.
Can you imagine?
More copies than people.
So, I mean, obviously, not everysingle person is gonna order
copies.
Well, how the how is that evenpossible?
It's because it was amazing.

(12:56):
He moonwalked across stages, helit up TV screens, and he
changed pop culture forever.
The glove, the curls, thehigh-pitched laugh, everything
about him became myths.
But myths are heavy to carry.
And behind the rhinestones andrehearsals was a man who hadn't
slept, really slept in years.

(13:18):
Sleep became the one thing thatMichael couldn't buy.

He tried everything (13:21):
herbal remedies, prescription pills,
meditation, yoga, and chamomiletea, probably flown in from
somewhere pretentious, butnothing worked.
The mind that could create BillyJean.
Billy Jean, Chima.

(13:42):
I just oh my yeah.
And choreograph perfection.
I mean, he couldn't find the offswitch.
So insomnia, especially whenpaired with chronic anxiety and
perfectionism, is torture.
It scrapes away your sanity onenight at a time.
So Michael did what rich peopledo when regular medicine fails.

(14:05):
He built his own.
By the time he started preparingfor This Is It tour in 2009,
Michael wasn't just the king ofpop, he was a human science
experiment.
His body was a pharmacy,painkillers, benzodiazepines,
antidepressants, a rotating castof chemical companions.

(14:26):
He'd cycled through a long listof doctors willing to prescribe,
supply, or look the other way,but he needed someone permanent,
someone loyal, someone who'dstay with him through the
nights.
Enter Dr.
Conrad Murray, the kind ofdoctor who smiled like he'd
already signed the NDA.
Murray was a cardiologist,trained, educated, technically

(14:49):
qualified.
He had degrees and credentialsand a habit of dressing like a
man who wanted to appear moresuccessful than he actually was.
He wasn't an evil doctor bytrade.
He just wasn't built for thecircus that came with Michael
Jackson.
They met in 2006 when Murraytreated one of Michael's kids.
Jackson liked him, or maybeliked the way he said yes.

(15:12):
By 2009, when the this is itrehearsals were in full swing,
Michael hired Murray full-timeat 150 Tho a month.
In 2009.

SPEAKER_03 (15:28):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (15:35):
So from the start, the setup was insane.
Murray wasn't hired by Michaeldirectly.
He was paid through AEG Live,the company that was running the
tour.
So his boss wasn't the patient.
It was the people who wantedMichael awake, rehearsing, and
performing that he was workingfor.
I mean, imagine being the doctorin that triangle.
Do you serve the patient who'sfalling apart or the corporation

(15:57):
that signs your paychecks?
And guess which side tends towin, right?

SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
Although what an ethical dilemma.

SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Michael's insomnia turned catastrophic.
He told Murray that he hadn'tslept more than a few hours in
weeks.
He begged for something moresubstantial.
What he wanted wasn't ambient orValium.
He wanted propofol, the whitemilky anesthesia drug used to
knock people out for surgery.
Surgeons call it milk ofamnesia.

(16:27):
I mean, that's kind of funny,right?
It's kind of funny, but not inthis instance.
It's powerful, fast, anddangerous if you don't know what
you're doing, or if you do knowwhat you're doing, and you just
don't give a crap.
Nurses train to resuscitate whenthings go wrong, and etc.

(16:50):
Murray, however, figured hecould improvise.
So he set up a miniature ICU inMichael's mansion.
IV drips, syringes, oxygentanks, but no proper monitoring,
no crash cart, no defibrillator.
I'm sorry, with all that moneyand stuff going on, he couldn't
order a defibrillator and acrash cart.

SPEAKER_02 (17:10):
Right?
You're already ordering things,just everything you need.

SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
This is basic emergency kit stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (17:17):
I mean if you're setting up a miniature ICU, get
everything that you would findthere.

SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
Or even in an emergency room.
You're putting your patient out.
And we talked about this withsome of the plastic surgeons
that are doing anesthesia.
Yeah, in their basement.
They don't have a crash cart ordefibrillator, which for our
listeners who don't know is, youknow, to reset your heart beat,
to shock your heart back intobeating.

(17:45):
Okay.
That's basic human life support.
But anyway, he wasn't doingthis.
He was just running anexperiment.
So his test subject was the mostfamous man in the world.
Night after night, Murrayadministered a pharmacy
cocktail, larazipam, medazolam,diazepam.
And when those didn't work, hereached for the propofol.

(18:07):
Jackson, finally drifting offinto chemically induced sleep,
called it my milk.
Oh my god, that's so sad.
But this wasn't rest, it wassedation, an unconscious state
that mimics sleep, but it skipsthe critical neurological repair
that actually comes with rumcycles.
So his body rested, but hisbrain didn't.

(18:28):
His brain drowned.
By June 2009, rehearsals wereintense.
The This Is It crew saw flashesof the old Michael, tireless,
brilliant, dancing throughexhaustion.
But behind the scenes, he wasskeletal, trembling, sweating.
His personal chef latertestified she'd find him in the
mornings disoriented,whispering, I didn't sleep.

(18:51):
It just makes me want to cry.
Oh, that's so sad.
One of his bodyguards noticedthe pattern too.
When Murray arrived, Michaelseemed calmer.
When Murray left, he lookedworse.
And that's dependency, folks.
Then came the night of June25th.
Inside the rented Holmbeam Hillsmansion, just after midnight,

(19:12):
Murray began his usual routine.
First a benzodiazepine and thenanother.
But still, Michael couldn'tsleep.
Around 1 30 a.m., Murray gave adose of propivol, 25 milligrams,
he later claimed, diluted withlidocaine to ease the burn.
Michael finally drifted off.

(19:33):
Murray later told investigatorshe sat at his bedside for a
while monitoring, and then,according to his own statements,
he left the room for two minutesto use the bathroom, two
minutes.
And when he returned, Michaelwasn't breathing.
He panicked, he provided CPR,and he made some phone calls.

(19:53):
Not to 911, mind you, but toMichael's I was gonna say, I'm
sure, I'm sure 911 wasn't first.
He called Michael's personalassistant.
It would take another 20 minutesbefore emergency services were
actually contacted.
20 minutes in cardiac arrest isan eternity.
It's too late, right?
Paramedics arrived at 1226 p.m.

(20:15):
They found Jackson pulselesswith his pupils dilated.
They shocked, ventilated, andpushed epinephrine, but nothing
helped.
He was transported to UCLAMedical Center where his
children waited.
The team worked on him for overan hour.
At 2.26 p.m., the announcementwas made.
Michael Jackson, age 50, wasdead.

(20:38):
And just like that, the king ofpop was gone.
The final act of a long,exhausting performance.
Now let's be clear, people dieevery day from drug
complications.
But what made this onedifferent, apart from the
obvious, was that this wasn't anaddict alone in a hotel.
This was a medical professionalhired to protect who supplied

(20:59):
the poison and failed the basicsof life support.
When the news broke, thenarrative warped instantly.
Fans didn't want to believe it.
Conspiracy theories bloomedovernight.
The Illuminati, fake death,government cover-ups.
But behind the noise, thecoroner was already cutting
through myth and muscle.
The autopsy was meticulous andthe findings brutal.

(21:22):
Michael's body showed no naturaldisease significant enough to
explain death.
His heart was healthy, his lungswere fine, there was no evidence
of overdose of oral medication.
What killed him was propofol, inlevels consistent with deep
anesthesia, mixed with smallerdoses of lorazipam and
midazolan, a hospital-grade drugcocktail administered in his

(21:45):
bedroom.
And because propofol depressesbreathing long before it stops
the heart, he likely diedquietly, slipping into oxygen
starvation before anyone evennoticed.
It was ruled a homicide.
Not an accident, not aself-inflicted tragedy tragedy,
homicide.
And suddenly Dr.

(22:05):
Conrad Murray wasn't a personalphysician anymore, he was a
suspect.
And with that, we're going totake a break for our chart.
It's a chart no one.

(22:28):
Okay.
Uh, I like that.
Welcome to the chart notesegment where we learn about
what's happening in medicine andhealthcare.
All right, this is deeplypersonal, but recently, a
federal judge rejected aconstitutional challenge to
California's truth inadvertising law, confirming that
only licensed physicians, MDs,and DOs may use the title doctor

(22:53):
in clinical settings.
The court held thatnon-physicians' use of doctor in
patient care is inherentlymisleading, commercial speech,
and not protected under theFirst Amendment.
A federal court delivered adecisive victory for patient
safety and transparencyaccording to this article, and
we'll talk about whether how wefeel about that in a minute,

(23:16):
rejecting an attempt to overturnCalifornia's truth in
advertising law.
The statute, which is Businessand Professions Code 2054,
prohibits the use of the titledoctor in healthcare settings by
anyone other than licensedphysicians.
The decision followed more thanfive months of procedural delays
while both sides asked the judgeto decide the case without a

(23:38):
trial.
In Palmer versus Bonta, threenurse practitioners with doctor
of nursing practice degreesargued that the law violated
their First Amendment rights.
On September 19th, 2025, U.S.
District Judge Jesus, because weain't calling him Jesus, because
we're not happy with him.

(23:58):
Always happy with Jesus.
So U.S.
District Judge Jesus Bernalrejected their claim, finding
that the use of doctor bynon-physicians in clinical
contexts is inherentlymisleading, commercial speech,
and not protected under theConstitution.
The court pointed to evidencethat patients often assume
doctor being a physician, andnoted that even the plaintiffs

(24:20):
acknowledged this such confusionoccurs.
Judge Bernal concluded therecord indicates that
plaintiffs' particular form ormethod of advertising has, in
fact, been deceptive, and thusthe speech enjoys no First
Amendment protection.
CMA and the Miracle, theAmerican Medical Association,
filed amicus briefs in the case,stressing, of course they did,

(24:43):
that misuse of the physiciantitle can confuse patients.
Oh, those poor little stupidpatients, can confuse them and
erode trust.
Significantly in construeringthe purpose and meaning of 2020
2054, the court relied on caselaw and arguments raised in
CMA's amicus brief concerningthe impact of state law

(25:04):
precedents.
The court also cited surveyevidence from AMA's Truth,
American Medical Association'sTruth and Advertising Campaign,
demonstrating patient confusion.
Although amicus briefs areuncommon at the trial court
level, CMA and AMA'sparticipation appears to have
had a positive influence,depending on your opinion.

(25:25):
California's nearly 90-year-oldstatute is designed to prevent
patients from being misled intobelieving a practitioner is a
physician when they are not.
First of all, 90 years old, wedidn't have mid-level providers

(25:46):
back then.
You know, you were either aphysician or you were a nurse.

SPEAKER_02 (25:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (25:52):
With and so since that time, subsequently, we have
clinical the emergence of aclinical doctoral degree.
Okay, uh I'll try and button itup and read through this.

SPEAKER_02 (26:05):
Maybe they should find a new name for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
Exactamente.
I mean, it's not like thesenurses of doctor practice are
calling themselves physicians,but okay, let's save that for
the end.
I'm gonna try and calm down alittle bit and finish this
article.
Okay.
Okay, misrepresentation of aprovider's level of licensing.

(26:30):
And it's not.
I can't.
I can't.
Okay.
Misrepresentation of aprovider's is so-called
perception of misrepresentationof a provider's level of
licensing, according to thisarticle, can jeopardize patient
safety.
Leading patients to mistakenlybelieve that they're being

(26:50):
treated by someone withphysician-level training and
qualifications.
In today's complex healthcaresystem, where it's already
difficult for patients todistinguish between physicians
and non-physicians, the truth inadvertising law plays a vital
role in safeguarding trust andpromoting informed decision
making.
I don't know if I can getthrough this without okay.

(27:13):
Another paragraph.

SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
I mean, the last paragraph's probably not even
important.
I think our banter is going tobe more important.
I'm so mad.

SPEAKER_00 (27:21):
Yeah.
So, okay, so this is assumingthat there is some inherent
safety issue between physiciansand non-physicians.
So I would I would argue that ifyou are, if you go to your this

(27:41):
includes, by the way, people,this includes dentists,
pharmacists, optometrists,audiologists, PhDs.
So if, you know, PhDpsychologists and stuff.
So if you go to someone and theysay, hey, I'm Dr.
So-and-so, I'm your optometrist,do you understand the difference

(28:01):
between?
I mean, you're going to get yourvision tested.
Do you think a physician isgoing to waste their time doing
that?
First of all, and if they do,great.
But like, is there a differencein being able to test who does
most of that appointment be COAsanyway?
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (28:18):
But it's just like, yeah, no.
Oh, okay, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 (28:21):
So if you go to an optometrist, for example, and
they introduce themselves as Dr.
So-and-so, I'm your optometrist.
Where is the misconception?
Because no one said I'm yourphysician.
They said they're I'm youroptometrist.

SPEAKER_02 (28:38):
And just like I introduced myself in clinic, hi,
I'm Dr.
House.
I'm your audiologist.
Right.
And I had patients specificallyask me before, so do you have
like an MD or something?
Nope.
I have a clinical doctorate inaudiology.

SPEAKER_00 (28:53):
And you know what?
You're the subject matter expertin your area.
So I don't expect a surgeon tounderstand the recommendations
of someone who's well-versed andspecialized in hearing health
care.
Then I expect a person who'swell versed in hearing health

(29:14):
care to tell a surgeon how to dotheir surgery.
So, and I think this isunderestimating.
It's devaluing the actualknowledge of consumers these
days.
They know what they're doing.
They know what they're goingfor.
It's like assuming everyone isso so uh I can't even I can't

(29:37):
even pinpoint really wherewhat's really upsetting me the
most.
I think it's the undervaluing ofthe fact that, first of all,
that people who have spent many,many years, and we can show you
our school loan bills, ineducating themselves in a
specialty area to the pointwhere they get a doctorate, why

(29:58):
are they not allowed?
To then present themselves asexperts in that subject matter
because somehow patients, thegeneral public, are unsafe
because they may think thatwe're physicians.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
It's so incongruous and archaic.
And as it says, this law inCalifornia, I thought California

(30:22):
was, you know, forward-thinking,open-minded.
I don't know.
But this rule is 90 years oldbefore any of these doctoral
degrees even existed.
So sorry, California, you guysreally, really failed here.

SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
Will not be moving there.

SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (30:39):
It's just I mean, I already would not have been.
Well, I can't afford to movethere just because of this, but
like also this.

SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
But like it's really disappointing because it it
assumes that the general publicisn't educated enough to
understand what they're whatthey're going for and whether or
not what they're the personthey're seeing is qualified to
do their job.
So if you're going to anoptometrist who has a doctoral
degree in optometry, I mean inaudiology, we're required to

(31:05):
have a doctoral degree to beable to call ourselves an
audiologist.
So why can't we say we're adoctor of audiology?
It doesn't make any sense.
Why are you denying us what weearned?
Like you're mad about it, thengo to school and you also can be
in debt.

SPEAKER_02 (31:20):
And how about all of our dentists?

SPEAKER_00 (31:21):
Oh my god.
And the dentists actually got,they must be so pissed.
They go to medical school.
Yeah, they go to medical schoolfor crying out loud.
Yup.
Okay.
So this is not good inCalifornia.
You guys need to do better.
Okay.
I know we said we're gonna getpolitical, but you know what?

(31:45):
California, do better.
Let's let's reconsider this.
And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:50):
I wouldn't say that's political, but yeah,
California is do better.

SPEAKER_00 (31:54):
Do better.
Okay.
Okay, now that I'm mad, we'regonna go back to the case.
Or unless you have anything elseto say.
Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 (32:03):
It's unique that we get more upset with the chart
note than no, like my insidesare flaming right now.
I just Well, it's ourlivelihood.
We worked really hard.
And and I think like if someonewas mis misrepresenting
themselves, then shame on them.
But I can say that we neverhave.

SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
But there are rules and regulations and violations.
I mean, I serve on council withour Department of Health that we
look at these violations wherepeople are she serves on every
council you guys.
Where we look at, you know,complaints to see, yeah, is that
valid?
Is someone representingthemselves in a way that they
shouldn't be?
And it's pretty rare, I willtell you.

(32:43):
Pretty darn rare.

SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
So I think like if I was a dentist, I'd be even more
pissed.
And also an optometrist, becausethey work in the same building,
whatever.
I mean, like us, like we're justit's one level.
You are us, and okay, you canhave a PhD, so they would say
they are not the same as me andwhatever.

(33:05):
But optometrists, they'reworking alongside their
ophthalmologists.
And then now I have to go tofirst name because yeah, you
know, California has a bug uptheir butt.

SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
And also they're not representing themselves as
surgeons, although someoptometrists can do minor
surgeries.
Did you know that?
Yes.
I mean, it's crazy.
That's crazy.
It's so insulting.
It's so insulting.

SPEAKER_02 (33:30):
And also, I just got okay, this is a total sidebar
story.
But if you went to elementaryschool with me, you know the
story.
And this is something that hascarried me with me in my adult
life, is when my fourth gradeteacher came into the building,
into our classroom.
I said, Good morning, Clark.
And I got in so much trouble forthat.

(33:50):
I got pulled down the hall and Igot a lecture that he is my
teacher.
He is not my friend.
His friends call him Clark.
I'm not his friend, I'm hisstudent.
I will call him Mr.
Folstead.
So if you ever hear this, thatstill fucking haunts me.
Thanks a lot.
So you just decided to call youteacher Clark.
Well, my friend, you know, daredme and I never say no to a dare.

(34:14):
Oh, I love that so much.
So anyway, Mr.
Cheekies, I always would hearhim in the back of my mind
because I would like introducemyself, like, hi, I'm Dr.
House.
I'm your audiologist today.
And it was usually men, ofcourse, that were like, Oh, hey,
Amanda.
And I'm like, no, you don't knowme.
Like, I just told you what myname was.
Like, yeah, I just yeah, I feellike that was from Mr.

(34:36):
Olstead.
I was like, no, I told you whatto call me.
Yeah, don't call me Amanda.

SPEAKER_00 (34:40):
It felt like it's disrespectful.
It is disrespectful.
And I noticed that I mean, Ilove my dad, lovely dad, but you
know, as an audiologist, he wasalways referred to as Dr.
Tanel, and then I would be, youknow, Jenna.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:58):
We had two men in our department where I last
worked, and it was from ourleadership team, always Dr.
Dr.
So-and-so and Dr.
So-and-so.
But if it came to any of uswomen, it was first name.

SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (35:09):
It's like people see that, you guys.
Start respecting women.
Gee dang it.
Right.
And we we're smart and audiologyis a woman-dominated field.

SPEAKER_00 (35:19):
You know what?
Some of us took the 10-yeartrain to get our degrees.
Hey oh, the money to prove it.
The loans, not the money.
Not the money.

SPEAKER_02 (35:33):
A lot of digits on that loan paper.
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
Aren't there?
Okay.
Deep breath.
We are worthy.
We are worthy.

SPEAKER_02 (35:40):
I feel like I'm blocked.
Yeah.
California.

SPEAKER_00 (35:44):
California.
You're gonna do better.
You're not gonna infect the restof this nation.
Let's hope.

SPEAKER_02 (35:49):
Okay.
Yeah, I hope it doesn't moveeast at all.
I would hate if you fell in theocean.
Change your law.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (35:59):
I mean, yeah.
Okay.
So back to this horrific case.
Do we seem narcissistic thatwe're really upset about the I
hope not.

SPEAKER_02 (36:11):
I just think like I hope it comes off more that like
we worked really hard and thisis stupid.
It feels like a step backwards.

SPEAKER_00 (36:18):
And it's also it's also devaluing or de
underestimating patients'knowledge these days.
Like they understand thehealthcare is vast and there's a
lot of choices out there.
There's PAs, MPs, this, that,and the other.
Okay.
Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 (36:35):
And I trust when I go to the dentist, and if
something goes wrong, they willbe able to save my life.
Like they are a doctor to me.

SPEAKER_00 (36:41):
I mean, honestly, the fact that they have to go
through medical school andthey're being told in California
they can't use their title.

SPEAKER_02 (36:49):
BS.
I'm sorry, my middle finger'sup.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
No, it's BS.
Oh God.

SPEAKER_02 (36:57):
We have some people that work in the dental field
that listen to this podcastpretty religiously.
So actually, can you guys askyour dentists if they have heard
about this?
And if so, I would love theirhot take.

SPEAKER_00 (37:08):
Like, are they significant as that?
The dental community, thedentists, I'm sure they have
enough money in their pack thatthey can really fight this.
Like audiologists are just atiny little subgroup.
Up optometrists may are maybe alittle bit bigger to fight this.
But dentists, I mean, you guysyou need to go up against AMA.

(37:29):
Let's fight this.
Right?
Come on, guys.

SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
Throw a rock and you'll find one.

SPEAKER_00 (37:34):
Guys and gals, non-binary pals.
You need to fight this.
All right, for all of us.
But you guys have the money.
Okay.
And you deserve it the most.

SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
But yeah, but we're just a blick.
Can you guys have these things?

SPEAKER_00 (37:46):
You deserve it the most because you guys actually
went to medical school.
So three hours later.
All right.
So when the Los Angeles CountyCoroner's office released the
word homicide, everythingchanged.
Until that moment, you couldstill believe it was another

(38:06):
tragedy.
A celebrity whose heart gave upunder the weight of exhaustion
and chemistry.
But homicide turned sympathyinto scrutiny, and it means that
somebody caused it.
And all eyes turned to ConradMurray.
Now, if Murray had been anyother doctor, anonymous,
suburban, running a cardiologyclinic out of a strip mall, he'd

(38:27):
have been quietly ruined inpeace.
But his patient was MichaelJackson, which meant every
camera in the world was pointeddirectly at his face.
And the man did not know how tokeep quiet.
He liked the sound of his ownvoice.
The LAPD questioned him withintwo days.
His answers were, to put itgently, inconsistent.

(38:50):
First he claimed he'd only givensmall doses of sedatives, Adam,
Valium, maybe a touch ofmedazalan.
Then he admitted to givingperpofol, but swore it was just
a screw, a tiny dose, nothingfatal.
Then he claimed he'd left theroom for a couple of minutes to
use the restroom.

SPEAKER_02 (39:08):
Does he not realize that there's a person called a
coroner in this situation?

SPEAKER_00 (39:14):
Seriously, dude.
A couple of minutes thatstretched into 20 when phone
records showed he was makingcalls, sending texts, and even
checking his voicemail whileJackson was dying down the hall.
You know how people talk aboutthe smoking gun.
Well, this was the surgeon'sversion.

(39:34):
A smoking syringe, fingerprints,and a phone log that screamed
negligence.
Police seized the medicalequipment, the IV bags, the
leftover propofol bottles.
One had a slit near the bottom.
An improvised setup that Murrayhad apparently rigged himself.
No proper infusion pump, nomonitoring machine.

(39:55):
So this means that this therewasn't steady dose or delayed
dose or a regulated dose.
He just like pushed the meds inthere all at once.
And that's not how these aredone.
And there were no monitoringmachines, no oxygen saturation
meter.
It was the medical equivalent ofbungee jumping with a freight

(40:16):
rope.
Murray, his defense?
Well, he said Michael did it tohimself.
Oh, that's right.
The good old doctor toldinvestigators that his patient,
unconscious under heavysedation, somehow woke up,
reached for a syringe, andinjected more propofol, and
promptly killed himself.
Sure, I guess the tooth fairydid the chart notes.

(40:40):
Detectives built their casepiece by piece.
The timeline didn't add up.
The medical records wereincomplete, and Murray's
behavior after the fact lookedless like grief and more like
panic.
One of the paramedics latertestified that when they
arrived, Murray was sweating,frantic, claiming he'd only just
found Jackson unresponsive, buthis pulse oximeter, the little

(41:01):
device that tracks oxygenlevels, wasn't even turned on.
And the 911 call came at least20 minutes late.
And in cardiac arrest, as wesaid before, that's a death
sentence.
The coroner's toxicology reportsealed the deal.
Jackson's blood contained lethalpropofol levels, about 2.6

(41:21):
micrograms per milliliter, whichis enough to induce surgical
anesthesia.
The sedatives in his system,larazipam and midazolam,
compounded the respiratorydepression.
Translation?
He couldn't breathe long beforehis heart stopped.
The medical examiner notedsuperficial needle marks on his

(41:41):
arms, but no signs ofself-injection.
The pattern suggested someoneelse administered the drugs.
Murray's fingerprints were onthe bottles and Jackson's were
not.
Still, Murray spun his story.
Still, Murray spun his story.
He said Michael was addicted tosleep, not to drugs, that he
begged for propofol as his milk.

(42:02):
That he, Murray, tried to weanhim off, giving smaller and
smaller doses until that finalnight when wouldn't you know it?
The singer must have sabotagedhimself.
It was the perfect defense forsomeone who didn't understand
irony.
Because if your patient is sounstable that you think he might
inject himself with anesthesia,why on earth would you leave the

(42:25):
room?
The news cycle exploded.
You couldn't turn on the TVwithout seeing his face.
Jackson's angelic image next toMurray's grim mugshot.
The networks played autopsyspeculation like it was sports
commentary.
The words propofol andbenzodiazepine became household
vocabulary.
Fans gathered outside NeverlandRanch, weeping and singing Man

(42:48):
in the Mirror.
Candlelight vigils lit up citiesfrom London to Tokyo.
Everyone wanted someone toblame, and Murray, smooth, soft
spoken, always insisting he wasmisunderstood, he made the
perfect villain.
Even better, he seemed to enjoythe attention.
He gave interviews, appeared indocumentaries, and portrayed

(43:10):
himself as the victim of fame.
It was surreal.
The man whose actions killedMichael Jackson was crying about
his life had been ruined.
Meanwhile, Jackson's familyprepared for battle.
They wanted justice, or at leastaccountability.
Catherine Jackson, stoic anddevastated, told reporters that
she hoped no other family wouldsuffer what hers had.

(43:34):
Lotoya hinted at a conspiracy,and Janet said simply, someone
should pay.
Two years later, in September2011, People vs.
Conrad Murray began in the LosAngeles Superior Court.
Judge Michael Pastor presided.
The courtroom was packed daily.
Press, fans, and evenlookalikes.

(43:55):
Seriously, Michael Jacksonimpersonators stood outside
holding signs that said justicefor Michael.
The prosecution, led by DavidWalgren, painted a portrait of a
greedy, reckless doctor whoviolated every rule in the
medical book.
They said Murray was motivatedby money, too lazy or too proud
to say no to his famous patient,and too careless to call 911

(44:18):
when everything went wrong.
They called expert witnesses,anesthesiologists,
cardiologists, pharmacologists,all of whom agreed on one thing.
This was not how propofol isused.
One anesthesiologist testifiedthat administering propofol in a
home setting without propermonitoring was equivalent to
giving surgery on a kitchentable.

(44:39):
And then there were the tapes.
Prosecutors played a hauntingrecording found on Murray's
iPhone.
A slurred, barely coherentvoice, unmistakably Michael's,
talking about his upcomingconcerts.
We have to be phenomenal.
When people leave this show,when they leave my show, I want
them to say I've never seenanything like this in my life.

(45:03):
It was chilling.
You could hear the exhaustionand the haze.
It was the sound of a mandreaming and dying.
Murray's defense was amasterclass in deflection.
Lead attorney Ed Chernoff toldthe jury that Jackson was a
desperate insomniac who pushedthe limits of his own body, that
Murray was trying to save him.

(45:23):
They argued that the doctor wasscapegoated, that the real
culprit was Jackson's ownaddiction.
They leaned heavily on thisself-injection theory, but every
expert who took the standdismantled it.
The dosage, the timing, theevidence, none of it fit.
To inject that much perbofol,Jackson would have needed
coordination that he wouldn'thave had under sedation.

(45:43):
The only way it worked was ifMurray left a continuous drip
going, which is something hedenied, but the evidence
supported, and this is where thetragedy got personal.
Jackson's staff took this stand,his chef, his bodyguards, his
personal assistant.
They described a man unraveling,thin, jittery, fragile.
His chef, Kai Chase, recalledpreparing breakfast for the kids

(46:07):
when Murray came running downthe stairs, shouting, Get help!
Get prince.
She remembered the look in hiseyes, sheer panic.
The bodyguard, Alberto Alvarez,described rushing upstairs and
seeing Jackson's lifeless bodyon the bed, an Ivy in his leg
and medical gear scatteredeverywhere.
Murray told him to grab the thevials and hide them before

(46:31):
calling 911.
Hide them.
Even in a moment of crisis, thedoctor was covering his tracks.
And when Alvarez testified, thecourtroom went silent.
He could feel the collectivebreath of realization.
This wasn't a tragic accident.
It was a chaotic, deceptive, andcriminally stupid act all at
once.

(46:51):
Six weeks later, on November 7,2011, the jury deliberated for
just eight and a half hours, andthey returned a single
unambiguous word, guilty.
The crowd outside erupted.
Some cheered, others cried, fansdanced and sang, beat it.
Murray stood motionless, handsclasped as the verdict echoed.

(47:15):
Judge Pastor didn't mince wordsat sentencing.
He called Murray's actions adisgrace to the medical
profession and said he's not avictim of circumstance, he's the
cause of the circumstance.
Four years in county jail, whichwas the maximum.
What?
Four years.

(47:36):
And he served less than two.
I am so what?
I was so shocked.
Did he ever lose his license?

SPEAKER_02 (47:49):
Yeah.
Okay, we'll get there, I'm sure.
But what?

SPEAKER_00 (47:55):
So, and what's even worse is that when he was
released in October 2013, hewalked free.
He was unrepentant.
He immediately started givinginterviews again.
Like it just the attention.

SPEAKER_02 (48:08):
He's like, I gotta make money again.
I lost my license.
I will get paid to dointerviews.
Oh God.

SPEAKER_00 (48:14):
Here's the thing about the Conrad Murray case.
It wasn't really about a doctor,it was about what happens when
fame rewires medicine.
So celebrity doctors, the oneswho orbit the powerful and
famous, exist in a world withoutknowing or understanding the
word no.
Their job isn't to heal, it's tomaintain the illusion of

(48:35):
invincibility.
So Murray wasn't the first, andhe won't be the last, but he's
the one that got caught.
And Michael Jackson, the mostfamous man on earth, wasn't just
a patient.
He was a patient with power, thekind that could make doctors
forget who was supposed to be incharge of medical care.
The tragedy isn't just thatMurray failed it, it's that

(48:55):
everyone did.
The system, the entourage, theindustry, all of them feeding
off of his exhaustion, promisinghim rest while taking his life
one pill, one syringe at a time.
If you strip away the sequenceand the spectacle, it's simple.
A doctor killed his patient, notwith malice, but with ego, not
with poison, but with obedience.

(49:17):
And if there's one truth adoctoring the truth has taught
us, it's this medicine withoutboundaries is just another form
of addiction.
The addiction to control, tofame, the illusion of healing
when what you're actually doingis harm.
When Michael Jackson took hislast breath, the world lost a
legend.
But what really died that daywas a lie that you can buy

(49:39):
safety.
Because even kings can overdose.
When the verdict came down,guilty of involuntary
manslaughter, it didn't feellike justice.
It just felt like a placeholder.
Conrad Murray went to jail,yeah, but Michael Jackson was
still dead, and the reasons whywent so much deeper than one
man's poor judgment and astethoscope.

(50:01):
In the eyes of the law, thestory was closed.
In the eyes of the world, it wasjust beginning.
Because what happens when theperson you grew up idolizing,
the man whose voice soundtrackedyour childhood, whose dance
moves broke physics, suddenlybecomes a body in an autopsy
room?
The grief was planetary, and itcame with questions that no
court could answer.

(50:22):
The Jackson family did whatfamilies do when tragedy meets
the spotlight.
They fractured.
Catherine Jackson, thematriarch, embodied Grace under
unbearable pressure.
She spoke gently, rarely, andmostly of forgiveness.
She said she trusted in God'splan, even if she couldn't
understand it, but you could seein her eyes that quiet grief

(50:43):
that comes from watching yourchild die before you.
Joe Jackson, ever thebusinessman, pivoted towards
outrage.
He went on talk shows demandingaccountability, filing civil
suits, and even hinting thatMurray was a scapegoat for a
larger conspiracy.
Maybe he believed it, and maybeeasier than admitting that fame
had devoured their son.

(51:04):
Latoya and Janet becameemotional anchors, their
interviews threaded withdisbelief.
He trusted people too much,Janet said.
He needed help, not indulgence.
The kids, Prince, Paris, andBlanket, were sheltered from the
worst of the circus, but notimmune.
They'd lost their father infront of the world.

(51:25):
And in the years that followed,they'd have to grow up watching
his death through playedendlessly on YouTube and CNN.
Imagine that.
Imagine being 12 years old,scrolling through your phone and
seeing your father's finalmoments dissected frame by frame
by strangers.
That's not grief.
That's a public autopsy.
And then there were the fans.

(51:46):
If you were alive in 2009, youremember where you were or where
or when you heard.
Outside UCLA, hundreds gatheredwithin hours, clutching candles,
wearing sequin gloves.
In London, the city whereJackson was supposed to start

(52:08):
his This Is It tour, people heldvigils outside the O2 arena.
In Tokyo, fans placed flowers infront of giant posters.
And logos in Rio, in Paris,everywhere.
People wept like they lost afriend.
But mixed with the mourning wasanger.
Fans wanted accountability.
They wanted to believe thesystem would protect their idol.

(52:29):
And when the sentence came, fouryears served as two, it didn't
feel like enough.
I mean, a man died becausesomeone decided the rules didn't
apply to him and the punishmentfelt like a parking ticket.
The public's outrage eventuallymorphed into a conspiracy.
Maybe Murray was just a pawn.
Maybe bigger forces wereinvolved.
Perhaps this was anotherexample, the entertainment

(52:51):
industry consuming its stars anddiscarding them when profits
declined.
But you could dismiss that asfan paranoia, but look at the
evidence, not the autopsy, butthe pattern.
How many times have we seen thisstory?
Whitney Houston, Prince, AmyWinehouse, Anna Nicole Smith,
Elvis Presley, different drugs,different doctors, same dynamic.

(53:11):
The patient's famous, exhausted,and surrounded by people paid to
say yes.
When Conrad Murray walked out ofjail in 2013, the world hadn't
forgotten him, though he seemedto think it had.
He was thinner, grayer, andoddly defiant.
I loved Michael, he toldreporters.
I tried to save him.
He refused to takeresponsibility.

(53:32):
He still claimed the justicesystem betrayed him and
continued to portray himself asthe victim.
In 2016, he published a book,This Is It: The Secret Lives of
Dr.
Conrad Murray and MichaelJackson.
It was part memoir, part damageto control, and mostly
unreadable.
In it, he alternated betweenprofessing undying love for his

(53:52):
patient and blaming everyoneelse.
AEG, the Mike, the Jacksonfamily, the media, even Michael
himself.
The irony was so thick it couldbe cut with a scalpel.
The medical boards in Texas,California, and Nevada all
revoked his license.
He couldn't practice again.
The man who'd once treated theking of pop ended up giving

(54:14):
phone interviews from hiskitchen table, insisting he'd
been wronged.
He even tried to get his licensereinstated in 2022, and the
boards left him out of the room,thank goodness.

SPEAKER_02 (54:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:25):
In the wake of Jackson's death, the phrase
celebrity doctor started tosound more like an insult than a
compliment.
There was a reckoning, at leaston paper.
Hospitals and boards re-examinedpolicies about home administered
sedatives.
Anesthesiologists spoke out,reminding the public that
propofol is not and never willbe a sleep aid.

(54:46):
However, Hollywood medicine,including concierge care,
cash-only consultations, andround-the-clock private
physicians, didn't go away.
They just got smarter and morediscreet.
You can't regulate the ego outof medicine, and that's what the
case is about.
Not about drugs, not sleep, ego.
Murray's ego convinced him hecould control a hospital-grade

(55:07):
drug from a nightstand.
Jackson's ego convinced him hecould push his body beyond human
limits.
And the industry's ego convincedeveryone that nothing bad could
happen to someone that famous.
And all three were wrong.
Medical schools began teachingthe cases the cautionary tale.
Some professors called it theJackson effect, when physicians

(55:28):
allowed power dynamics andcelebrity to override clinical
judgment.
One ethics professor, CLA, putit perfectly.
Doctors can't serve two masters,the patient's well-being and the
patient's fame.
One will always eat the otheralive.
Talk about conflict of interest.
Propofol's packaging nowincludes even more explicit

(55:50):
warnings about off-label use.
Hospitals tightened protocols,and some anesthesiologists
became minor celebritiesthemselves for refusing
celebrity requests, which I findfunny.
But ethics like fame fades fast.
By the time another high-profileoverdose hit the headlines, this
time Prince, killed bycounterfeit fentanyl, the world

(56:12):
barely blinked.
We learned nothing except how tobe more desensitized.
Michael Jackson's death wasn'tjust physical, it was
psychological.
It was a logical endpoint ofdecades of fear, insecurity, and
insomnia.
Insomnia isn't just notsleeping, it's the erosion of
peace.
It's lying awake at four in themorning, your brain replaying
every note you missed, everyheadline you hated, every face

(56:34):
that wanted something from youthat you didn't think you
delivered.
He was a man who builtNeverland, a private amusement
park, because he wanted to livein a world where it was always
gaytime and no one ever left.
But even in Neverland, you haveto close your eyes eventually,
and when you've been awake fortoo long, sleep starts to feel
like mercy.
So he asked for mercy and Murraygave him murder.

(56:58):
Over the years, Jackson's legacyhas become a battleground
between those who see him as agenius lost too soon and those
who struggle to reconcile themusic with the man.
The allegations, thecontroversies, the plastic
surgeries, they all blur into acomplicated portrait of
brilliance and brokenness.
But the thing that uniteseveryone, fans, skeptics,

(57:20):
family, even casual listeners,is a sheer waste of it all.
He didn't have to die.
If someone, anyone, had said no,if a doctor had walked away, if
a producer had said cancel thetour, get him help.
But in the world of fame, no isthe only word nobody wants to
hear.
Walk into any karaoke bar,you'll still hear Billy Jean.

(57:42):
Walk into any dance competition,you'll see a moon walk.
Michael Jackson didn'tdisappear, he just changed form.
His art is immortal and hisstory is not.
Conrad Murray is now a footnote,a name that appears in the
margins of medical malpracticetextbooks, but the lesson he
leaves behind should be burnedinto every clinic wall.
You can't anesthetize pain.

(58:03):
You can only postpone it.
Michael Jackson once said, liesrun sprints, but truth runs
marathons.
And the truth here ran a longugly marathon through autopsy
tables, courtroom transcripts,press conferences, and fan
tears.
The lie was simple that propofolcould bring him peace and fame
could keep him safe, that adoctor could be a caretaker and

(58:26):
enabler and somehow call itmedicine.
The truth, it was never aboutasleep, it was about escape.
He spent his whole lifeperforming, trying to be the
thing that everyone wanted himto be: the child star, the sex
symbol, the saint, the freak,the genius.
He just wanted to close hiseyes.
And Conrad Murray gave him thatpermanently.

(58:46):
In the end, the story of MichaelJackson and Dr.
Conrad Murray isn't aboutvillainy or innocence.
It's about the fragile borderbetween healing and harm.
And what happens when that lineblurs under the spotlight.

SPEAKER_04 (59:03):
And that's a wrap.

SPEAKER_02 (59:06):
Wowzers.
Very well done.
Thank you for bringing us that.
That's sad.
Because it feels like someoneyou know and then you're hearing
about the case.

SPEAKER_00 (59:15):
I know.
I mean, he was my childhood.
He was my child teenhood, youknow.
Yeah.
Absolutely devastating to learnthat he died.
But like the more you learnabout it, the more it was like,
what quality of life did he haveto provide this gift to the

(59:36):
world?
And yet, what did the world givehim?
You know.

SPEAKER_02 (59:40):
But then the simple facts also of what you mentioned
of if people just said, no, takea break, don't go on tour.
Let's get you the help you need,then he'd probably still be
here.

SPEAKER_00 (59:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (59:56):
There was another thing I really liked that you
said comparing.
Sentence to a parking ticket.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:02):
Yeah.
And also about how there was theother deaths, Anna Nicole Smith,
Prince, etc., etc.
And how it's not like asshocking anymore because we
become desensitized to it.
And I feel like with so manythings in culture now, we just
become so desensitized to itbecause we have so much access

(01:00:24):
at our fingertips now.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:27):
And I also very much dislike that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:29):
Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:30):
But it's true.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:32):
Yeah.
And and it's so easy to go, oh,well, they were addicted or
whatever.
I mean, I think I rememberfeeling like because I was
young, I was like, oh, anotherElvis, you know, like another
person who just overdid it.
But he was out.
He he tried he he, I mean,regardless of yes, he was

(01:00:55):
addicted, but he trusted thismedical professional to take
care of him, to help him sleepand make sure he was safe,
right?
He wasn't like just gonna go outand shoot up because I don't
know any other way.
And not that I'm judging thateither, but like he trusted him.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:12):
I do believe his intention was to try and get a
good rest.
Yeah.
And not, yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:19):
So there's a lot of fingers to point here.
Very depressing, but also, yeah,that conflict of interest.
Like you can't have a personlike a m celebrity's like
manager paying you for his Idon't even know because I'm not
in show biz.

(01:01:41):
But like basically hismanagement company, the the
company wants him to go out andperform.
Right.
Pay for the doctor.
Yeah.
I mean, and they're like, makesure he's on point, make sure
he's well arrested, make surewhatever.
I mean, my god, that's theepitome of conflict of interest.

(01:02:03):
Right?
Oh, it's just so sad anyway youlook at it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:06):
But either way, you shouldn't have left the room.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:08):
Ah honestly.
And it let's face it, it wasn'ttwo minutes.
Because I mean, his phonerecords and everything showed.
You just left him otherwise fora while.
Yeah.

unknown (01:02:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:19):
Just like the anesthesiologist that you told
us about last time that had togo to the bathroom quick.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:24):
Just a quick I mean, I don't think he was doing that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:26):
Yeah.
The one who was bonking thenurse.
Oh, yeah, in the other room.
Yeah.

unknown (01:02:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:30):
That was eight minutes.
I mean Yeah.
Oh boy.
Okay.
Yeah.
Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:37):
Okay.
I see we have another newsponsor.
Yeah, tell us about it.
And uh I'll tell you about it togive you a little uh vocal
folds, a little break there.
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(01:02:58):
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(01:04:24):
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SPEAKER_00 (01:04:43):
Thank you for that.
I'm just gonna jump right intothis medical mishap because
you're gonna love this.
This will bring us up a littlenotch.
This email comes to us fromAnonymous, who writes, Dear
Jenna and Amanda, I'm so excitedif you read this on the pod.
I'm writing it anonymously, asthis is a story you don't want
your name attached to.
Oh, goodie.
Oh boy.

(01:05:03):
This is gonna be a good one.
But before I get into it, I wantto tell you how much I love your
pod.
Go on.
My sister got thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:11):
Thank you for listening to our call, a squeaky
wheel.
Please love us out loud.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:17):
My sister got me into it a few months ago.
I've been binge listening on mycommute to and from work.
You two are doing importantwork, shining light on issues in
healthcare with humor andcompassion for the victims.
Thank you for making me staysuspicious.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:31):
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Thank you for listening to us.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:37):
Okay, now for the mishap.
Anyone who's had the privilegeof giving birth, and
incidentally, many women whohaven't but still experience
this knows the cringingembarrassment of peeing yourself
after sneezing or laughing toohard.
I love this already.
I was in hard denial about thisissue, but something happened

(01:05:59):
where I had to face the coldhard truth.
Picture this.
My husband and I bought a largetrampoline for the backyard.
My five-year-old daughter and Iwere engaged in an inaugural
bounce.
We were busting up laughing asshe would attempt to lie down on
the trampoline mat and I wouldjump, making her body airborne
for a few moments.

(01:06:20):
After one such jump slashbounce, I looked down at her
only to see her eyes widen inhorror.
I realized that I had peed.
I was in my swimsuit.
So I wasn't immediately inparrot.
I mean, yeah, maybe you'd justgotten out of the pool and you
were like, is that me or is thatthe swimming pool?

(01:06:42):
Anyway, a large puddle wasworking its way down to the
indent where she lay.
I knew then that I needed help.
If only to protect my children.
So I went to the urologist for aconsult.
MG, this guy was capital H.

(01:07:04):
I was sweaty and nervous in hispresence.
Why did he have to be so hot?
Anyway, Dr.
Haughty said the first step wasfor me to try the non-invasive
method of treatment, the cagleexercises.
Now, Alicats, your girl was wellversed in the cagle universe.
I am a healthcare provider.

(01:07:25):
He used to have to see patientsin the incontinence room while
our clinic was underconstruction.
So that sounds like apunishment.
On the wall in said room was ahuge poster with the sage advice
printed on it.
Squeeze before you sneeze inpulled letters.

(01:07:46):
Oh my gosh.
That is such good advice.
I've been squeezing beforesneezing for years.
On to the exam.
Dr.
Hottie got down to business forthe physical exam and asked me
to prove my prowess.
Allie Cats, I geggled the crapout of that exam.

(01:08:11):
I passed with flying colors.
Later he said to me, Often womentell me they've been doing the
exercises, but I can tell theyhaven't.
You have the strongest gegglesI've felt in my career.
I can't.
I need to keggle right nowbecause I'm laughing so hard.
Sorry.
I was both proud and mortified.

(01:08:34):
On to surgery.
I got a mesh hammock thingimplanted to support my bladder
so I wouldn't wee every time Ithought something was funny.
Prior to surgery, I told Dr.
Huddy, this better work.
As be prepared, I plan to go toyour office for my post op
appointment and jump up and downon your carpet.

(01:08:56):
Bold.
Thankfully for him and forhousekeeping, the surgery was a
success, and I was back tojumping up and down with gleeful
abandonment.
My daughter might need therapy,but I'm cured.
I mean, I'm also thinking maybeyour urologist might need some
therapy.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:16):
Jeez, these are the strongest gaggles I've ever
felt.
That's so uncomfy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:23):
Meanwhile, she's proud.
As she should be.
Stay safe and stay suspicious ofbody fluids wending their way to
you when a middle-aged mom jumpsup and down next to you on your
trampoline.
Love anonymous.
Oh gosh.
Love that for us.

(01:09:43):
But listen, what can ourlisteners expect to hear next
week, Amanda?

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:50):
Is it gonna be That's a really good question?

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:52):
Is it gonna be a some prize, as my kids used to
say when they were little?

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:55):
It's gonna be a sum prize.
Yay! It'll be some some somesort of prize.
So yeah, it'll be a sum prize.
I don't know why this says 25%buckle up.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:10):
Oh, I don't where's the 25%?
It's a doozy.
25% of you need to buckle up isapparently the script.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:19):
So anyway, just reading the script, guys.
So don't miss a beat.
Subscribe or prepare.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:25):
75% of you can be bored, but 25% of you need to
buckle up and prepare.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:32):
That's probably accurate.
The last couple of times Ihaven't been able to read
correctly.
So okay.
Don't miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcast for stories thatshock, intrigue, and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at doctoringthe truth at

(01:10:54):
buzzpotbuzzprout.com.
Email us your own story ideas,medical mishaps, and comments at
Doctoringthe Truth at Gmail.
And be sure to follow us onInstagram at Doctoring the Truth
Podcast and Facebook atDoctoring the Truth.
We are also on TikTok at Doctorthe Truth and at oddpod.
Don't forget to download rateand review so we can be sure to
bring you more content nextweek.

(01:11:15):
And remember to love us outloud.
Send us a comment.
Please stay safe.
We only have a few comments.
Give us comments.

unknown (01:11:22):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:24):
Spacious.
Mike.