October 15, 2025 • 53 mins
A tailor’s back room, a bottle of “powder,” and a stack of insurance forms—our step-by-step tour of Philadelphia’s 1930s arsenic ring reveals how murder became a business, cloaked in folk magic and legitimized by paperwork. We start with a misdiagnosed “pneumonia,” follow the paper trail through forged signatures and overlapping policies, and watch a would-be hitman flip the script with the Secret Service. From sandbags meant to mimic brain hemorrhages to a spiritualist selling la fattura, the scheme preyed on fear, poverty, and the promise of a payout, turning neighbors into recruiters and grief into revenue.
Resources:
https://journals.psu.edu/phj/article/view/25642/25411
https://vtuhr.org/articles/42/files/submission/proof/42-1-76-1-10-20171116.pdf
https://billypenn.com/2023/05/28/pasta-arsenic-mass-murder-south-phillys-infamous-1930s-poison-ring/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_poison_ring
https://news.medtronic.com/Medtronic-smart-study-pivotal-moment-in-womens-health-newsroom
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Amanda.
Jenna.
I'm just finishing a pretzel,sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
Welcome everybody to episode twenty.
No.
No.
Thirty-six.
Yeah.
Thirty-six.
Thirty-six.
Thirty-six.
That's how old I am.
Yikes here, baby.
Only if you ask some people.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
It's all relative, but if you ask me, you're a
baby.
How are you doing?
I'm doing fantabulous.
Ooh, I'm good.
The weather's nice.
It's my favorite.
It's crisp enough to get thepumpkins on the porch.
I mean, it's been so hot.
(00:48):
I was like, are we gonna havelike rotted pumpkin, like cooked
pumpkin outside?
So yeah.
I got them out two days ago.
They haven't died, so there wego.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Yeehaw! Cute, cute.
Husband's outside right nowhanging permanent lights on the
house, which I'm very excitedfor.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
Oh, tell me about that.
What's permanent lights?
Like permanent Christmas lights?
SPEAKER_02 (01:12):
Yeah.
Like he drills this thing intothe soffit, and then the little
light fits up in there.
And then you can run thedifferent colors from your phone
and like have them blink indifferent sequences and stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
You can do different holidays.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Oh, that's so cool.
unknown (01:29):
Ah!
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
I know I was like, tonight can we put on purple and
orange for Halloween?
Oh, that is so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Oh, wow.
I'm so excited.
I'm excited for you.
Eee, I'll have to send you apicture.
Getting in the mood.
Yay! What else is new?
SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
Other than that, not a whole lot.
I feel like we did a little moreorganization on the house.
You know, you kind of like movein and then your main spaces are
livable, and then you kind offorget about the other ones
because you never go there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
Yeah, really.
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
So this past weekend we did a little more work with
things that needed working on.
So now it feels like wow, ourhouse is ginormous, which it is
too big for us, too.
But yeah, it feels good to havethings more organized.
Oh, good for you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
What about you?
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Me.
Well, I mean, I fell asleep andrealized it was April and that I
didn't have my taxes done.
So I filed for an extensionpurely out of laziness.
And the the deadline is like Isthis a dream?
What?
That you fell asleep and youwoke up and it was April?
No, but I mean, like, I feellike I just dozed through the
(02:48):
tax season and I was like, ohcrap, April fell upon us.
And I was like, I'm not ready.
So, you know, with the divorceand whatnot, I didn't know how
to do my taxes.
So I just sucked it up and didmy taxes because then the
extended deadline was October15th.
So I got that done.
Yay for me.
(03:09):
Good job.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:10):
And you know, yeah, I don't love tax time.
SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
Or like I've seen these posts where people are
like, the government apparentlyknows how much money we owe
them, and we have to pay someoneto tell us how much money we owe
them, and hopefully it's right,otherwise we get in trouble.
Yeah.
It's like, can you guys justsend me a letter and be like,
you owe me this much?
And I can just send you a check.
Like, can we take out themiddleman here?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
I know.
And most of the time it's whatthey owe us, and they've been
sitting on our money.
Yeah, whatever.
Yeah.
That's how our system ofgovernment works in the United
States.
Pipe up those of you, 34countries that also other
countries that listen to thispodcast and let us know how much
better it is in your end.
SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Yeah, because we get taxed on the money we make,
taxed on the money we spend,then we have to do our taxes and
pay more money.
SPEAKER_00 (03:58):
And then if you upgrade your bathroom, you need
to get a city permit so thatthey can tax you more because
your house is house is worthmore.
I mean.
Yeah.
It's all good times.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
But you know what?
Wow, we do have nice drivingroads.
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
Well, we have dri we have roads that we have to in
some places like Minnesota, youhave to pay for when they
repave.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
And they have that like road delivery tax in
Minnesota now.
Like if you order a package, ithas like a a charge.
Really?
Did you see that?
SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
Yeah.
I mean it's 50 cents, but it'slike a road charge or something.
SPEAKER_00 (04:35):
I was just shocked that I had to pay$12,000 for
them to repave the road in frontof my house.
Yeah.
And now I have to pay to replacethe part to repave the sidewalk
because one of the governmenttrees' roots has uprooted the
sidewalk so that it's uneven.
And we have to pay to repavethat.
(04:57):
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:59):
I feel like that's your tree your problem.
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
Yeah, but if we take out the city's the city's tree,
that's another 10,000, 15,000,we're welcome to take it out.
But I mean it's just gonna keepBut the tree and the boulevard
are the city's property.
Yeah, and yet we had to pay forthe rate the road to be repaved.
So I don't understand how itworks, but it seems to never go
in my favor, I'll just say itright now.
SPEAKER_02 (05:26):
Okay, so correction section.
There's not any like correctionsto your story at all, but I did
have quite a few people textingme about the how do you say
chart note?
And apparently the Californialaw that we discussed in a
(05:47):
heated, passionate manner lasttime does not include dentists.
So that's good for them.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
I also had someone else say this only pertains to
nurse practitioners, which ifthey're qualified to do the
services that they're providing,then the public needs to
understand that that level ofprovider is able to give them
the services that they need,that they're licensed to provide
in their scope of practice, andthat that scope of practice
(06:17):
belongs to a doctor of nursingpractice.
So if we just say, well, youneed to say whether you're a
physician or not, you're notreally educating the public on
what that means and whether theyeven need a physician to provide
the level of expertise that theyrequire for their condition.
I mean, you can't get a licenseif you don't understand your
(06:38):
scope of practice and when torefer.
So we're not respecting any ofthat, or their years of like you
know how many years a doctor ofnursing practice needs to
undergo to get that title.
SPEAKER_02 (06:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
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your order today.
Resources for today's episodewill be in the show notes, per
usually.
We're going old old timey today,guys.
And then when I was readingabout this one, it had some like
mystical, magical, like potion-ythings in it.
And I was like, ooh, this kindof feels like perfect for coming
up on Halloween time.
(08:40):
Even though it's not like likewe're not diving into potions or
anything, but I'm just sayingthere's mansions, there's shades
of mystical things.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
I'm excited, just in time for spooky season.
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
I know.
Ah so no trigger warnings.
This episode seems likelighthearted and fun.
Of course, it's like it'shorrible that it happened, but
when it's an old timey, likewe're going back to the 1930s.
So when it's so old timey, likeliterally almost a hundred years
ago, it just seems sofar-fetched, like that would not
(09:14):
happen today, that it's it'skind of seems like, oh ha ha.
Even though it's horrible, ithappened.
And who knows, maybe it's stillhappening today, but we hope
not.
Ooh.
All right, y'all.
Let's get in our time machine.
We're going back to the 1930s,to South Philadelphia.
(09:35):
Phil.
So in the at the time, SouthPhiladelphia was home to a
thriving Italian immigrantcommunity, many of whom
struggled to navigate a world ofnew language barriers, economic
hardship, and unfamiliar legalsystems.
It was a period of tension andhope, but also vulnerability.
(09:56):
Ferdinando Alfonsi, a38-year-old Italian immigrant
and day laborer living inPhiladelphia, died on October
27, 1938 at National StomachHospital.
On paper, his death seemedordinary.
A married white male employed inconstruction, now recorded in
(10:16):
the Pennsylvania Department ofHealth's Bureau of Vital
Statistics.
But amid the official stamps andregistration numbers, one phrase
stood out in bold, smearedletters under principal cause of
death.
Inquest pending.
(10:49):
So, anywho, that's on oursocials.
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
Oh my gosh.
So Alphonse's death wasinitially attributed to
pneumonia, but it was anythingbut ordinary pneumonia.
The autopsy revealed that hisbody was saturated with arsenic,
the same stub substance commonlyused as rat poison.
The suspicions deepened whenthey discovered that Alphonse's
(11:14):
widow had recently taken out aseries of life insurance
policies on him.
There were multiple overlappingcontracts with payouts far
exceeding his modest income.
The case, which had become as aroutine inquiry, soon led
authorities into the one one ofthe strangest and most chilling
criminal enterprises in thecity's history.
(11:38):
A network of poisoners andinsurance swindlers who treated
murder as business.
Wow, you're kidding.
That is crazy.
Detectives Michael Schwartz,Anthony Franchetti, and Samuel
Riccardi had already beeninvestigating a string of
suspicious deaths amongPhiladelphians' Italian
(12:01):
population, and they recognizedthat Alphonse's murder was part
of a much larger pattern.
What followed was a complexinvestigation that uncovered
this extensive murder forinsurance ring spanning
Pennsylvania, New Jersey, NewYork, and Delaware.
The men at the center of theoperation were cousins Paul and
(12:21):
Herman Petrio, two Italianimmigrants who had spent years
of building reputations in theirSouth Philadelphia neighborhoods
as men who could fix problems.
Paul worked as a tailor and anamateur spiritual advisor, and
Herman operated as aphotographer, but moonlighted in
much shadier trades fromextortion to fake insurance
(12:45):
dealings.
And together they built anempire based on desperation and
superstition.
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (12:52):
By the late 1930s, the Great Depression had left
working-class Philadelphians,particularly in the immigrant or
Italian immigrant enclaves,impoverished and afraid.
Jobs were scarce, hunger wascommon, and the promise of an
insurance payout could mean thedifference between survival and
destitution.
The Patrios exploited this fearwith precision.
(13:15):
They found men and women willingto insure a spouse, relative, or
acquaintance for small sums,promising that accidents could
be arranged and claims quicklypaid.
Clients typically paid$300 plus10% of any insurance
proceedings, proceeds exceeding$1,000, transforming homicide
(13:36):
into a form of investment, whichis wild.
And for reference,$300 in thelate 30s is equivalent to about
$6,893 in today's money.
Beneath the veneer of financialcrime, however, lies something
even more insidious.
The organization drew upontraditional Italian folk beliefs
(13:57):
in witchcraft and malachi, whichmeans evil eye, and the power of
potions and spiritual healers.
Like, how perfect for this timeof year.
The Patrios began collaboratingwith Morris the rabbi, Bulbur,
who was a Russian-bornspiritualist and self-styled
(14:18):
healer.
Bulber practiced la fatura,which is a blend of Italian folk
magic, herbal remedies, andpsychological manipulation.
Through him, the Patrios alsodiscovered arsenic.
Many others involved posed asfaith healers themselves or as
fortune tellers, exploitingsuperstition and desperation
(14:40):
with immigrant neighborhoodsbattered by the Great
Depression.
For some, participation in thering represented not pure
malice, but a grim form ofsurvival.
An attempt to translate oldworld magic and misfortune into
new world money.
Arsenic was easy to obtain andin small doses difficult to
(15:01):
detect.
It could mimic the symptoms ofnatural diseases such as stomach
distress, weakness, and gradualdecline.
And remember, we are in the1930s here.
So it's not like going into theclinic today and they're gonna
run a bunch more labs becausethey just didn't have all that
then.
So with Bulber's influence andtheir growing network of
(15:21):
collaborators, the Patriosturned poisoning into an
industrial process.
They recruited m relatives,friends, and neighbors, often
through promises of wealth orsuperstition-driven fear.
A wife who complained about herhusband's drinking might be told
she could cure him with aspecial potion.
But of course, this co thispotion contained personality.
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
He might be dead, but he's not drinking.
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
They're like, honey, do we have a deal for you?
We can just get you set up witha little potion.
It's gonna cure his drinking.
It's like, well, we did deliverwhat we said.
He's not drinking.
Oh, so funny.
I mean, see, not funny, but likefunny.
(16:08):
Yeah.
The investigation intoPhiladelphia's arsenic murder
ring truly began, though, whenAlphonse's death crossed the
line from tragedy totransaction.
In the summer of 1938, arecently released convict named
George Meyer, who ran a smallupholstery cleaning business in
New Jersey, found himself shorton cash.
(16:28):
He was seeking a modest$25 loan,which I promise this is the last
translation of money I do, but$25 in 1930s is equivalent to
$574 today.
Oh my gosh, that's a lot.
I think it's fun.
Yeah.
So seeking this loan, he wasreferred to a Philadelphia
(16:49):
spaghetti and olive oil salesmannamed Herman Petrillo.
Meyer expected a small favor inreturn for the loan, but instead
he was offered blood money.
Petrillo told him bluntly,quote, why bother me for$25 when
you can get$500, end quote.
Oh my gosh.
And proposed that Meyer earn itby killing a man named
(17:12):
Ferdinando Alfonso.
According to Petrillo's plan,the murder had to look
accidental to trigger a doubleindemnity clause on Alphonse's
life insurance policy.
Petrill offered either$600 incash or$2,500 in counterfeit
bills if Meyer would stage thedeath, perhaps by striking
(17:33):
Alphonse with a lead pipe or asandbag and then pushing him
down the staircase.
The accident, he explained,would allow them to collect the
inflated payout.
Meyer accompanied Petrio to meetAlphonse, but ultimately backed
out.
Troubled by what he had heard,he went to the Philadelphia
(17:54):
police to report the murder forhire proposal.
Unfortunately, detectivesdismissed him, assuming that the
ex-convict was imagining things.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
And I mean, and what does it hurt you to take it
seriously?
If it's wrong, you know, sowhat?
At least you checked it out.
SPEAKER_02 (18:10):
Does that is it everyday guys that are people
are walking into the policestation saying someone wants to
do a murder for hire?
I don't think so.
Then dismiss him after that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Determined, Meyer turned to theU.S.
Secret Service, which I'm like,okay, go, George Meyer, because
I would be like, how do you evenget a hold of the Secret
(18:31):
Service?
But you go, sir.
And so this U.S.
Secret Service, he got in touchwith local chief William
Landvot, who took cautiousinterest, which the police
should have done, after learningthat Petrillo was already wanted
for bootlegging andcounterfeiting.
Landvott assigned agent StanleyB.
Phillips to pose as a hitman andinfiltrate the Patrillo circle.
(18:56):
Phillips and Meyer metrepeatedly with Petrillo, who
discussed various ways todispatch Alphonse, such as
drowning, you know, maybe a hitand run.
How about you bludgeon him witha sandbag?
Because according to Petrillo,if you bludgeon someone with a
sandbag, it left no visible markand mimicked a brain hemorrhage.
Oh, he's evil.
(19:17):
I know.
Like what a naughty naughtylittle I can't think.
Yeah, gangster.
Oh my gosh, naughty naughty.
During these meetings, Phillipstried to buy counterfeit bills
while pretending to negotiatethe contract killing.
The deal dragged on for weeksand weeks as Petrio struggled to
(19:39):
secure the fake currency.
At one point, he informedPhillips that the murder for
hire was no longer necessarybecause Alphonse had fallen
gravely ill.
That bastard must have ninelives, Petrio allegedly said.
We gave him enough arsenic tokill six men.
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
Go, Alphonse.
SPEAKER_02 (19:58):
Yeah.
unknown (19:59):
Huh.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
Dang, got brothers out here just literally fighting
first life.
Oh shame.
In addition to this fruitfulinformation gathered after
Alphonse died, his wifecollected several insurance
payouts, but one of the policieswas filed with a forged
signature and drew scrutiny.
(20:20):
Investigators began tracing thepaperwork and soon uncovered a
web of overlapping claims, alltied to the same small circle of
brokers and agents.
Investigators found that many ofthe victims in similar cases had
been insured multiple times,sometimes without their
knowledge, and most sharedsocial ties to the same South
(20:40):
Philadelphia neighborhoods.
In some cases, signatures hadbeen forged by the Petrios
themselves or by complicitinsurance agents.
Others had been recruited byintermediaries, such as wives,
cousins, or neighbors who werepromised a cut of the payout.
When police raided PaulPetrillo's tailor shop, they
found stacks of policy forms,correspondence with insurance
(21:04):
companies across several states,and bottles containing traces of
arsenic laced tonics.
The shop's back room hadeffectively served as the
operations' headquarters wherepoison was distributed and
paperwork forged.
As the investigation widened,detectives uncovered a network
so large it resembled anunderground corporation.
(21:28):
There were field recruiters whoidentified potential clients,
middlemen who arrangedinsurance, and even medical
professionals who participatedknowingly or under coercion.
The ring exploited routinemedical practice in the limits
of contemporary medicine.
Physicians at that time oftenmisattributed arsenic symptoms
(21:49):
to food poisoning, stomachdisease, or heart failure,
especially when familiesreported symptoms in culturally
framed ways.
So this was like a big, a bigweb.
Lots of people involved.
And we're going to talk aboutone naughty-naughty naughty
doctor in particular.
But anyway, as you can see, alot of people involved.
(22:11):
The spiritual front made thescheme possible.
Bulber convinced superstitiousclients that illness or
misfortune could be lifted byspecial remedies like powders,
oils, or charms.
To those desperate enough tobelieve, these treatments
promised both healing andprotection.
In reality, they becameinstruments of murder.
(22:32):
When victims began dying insuspiciously similar ways,
whispers spread throughout SouthPhiladelphia about cursed
families and the mala malokie,which again is that evil eye.
Fear and fascination grew, butfew dared speak openly about it.
It was only after several widowsbegan fighting over insurance
(22:54):
payouts that the threads startedto unravel.
SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (22:58):
Investigators discovered that the ring's
structure extended beyond theneighborhood boundaries.
There were two main divisions: one in North Philadelphia, led (23:03):
undefined
by Herman Bulber, and a womannamed Rose Karina, an accomplice
who had poisoned several of herown husbands, and another in
South Philadelphia, overseen byPaul and his associate Karina
Favato.
Despite territorial disputes,the two groups continued
(23:26):
cooperating, sharing poison andsupplies, occasionally borrowing
each other's clients.
If persuasion failed, thePatrios turned to more sinister
tactics.
Sometimes they seduced reluctantwives, binding them emotionally
before reintroducing theproposition of murder.
Other times they used threats ofsupernatural harm.
(23:48):
Victims were told thatdisobedience could invite a
curse.
Those most vulnerable were thepoor, unfortunately, the
superstitious and the isolated.
They were all easy prey.
I know.
In cases where women soughtabortions, the ring leveraged
even deeper fear.
Dr.
(24:08):
Horace Perlman, a licensedobstetrician and gynecologist,
performed illegal procedures forclients referred by Bulber.
Afterward, Perlman wouldblackmail the women, threatening
exposure unless theyparticipated in the insurance
fraud or murder schemes.
And that's that naughty naughtydoctor that I said I was going
(24:29):
to mention.
Because how freaking horrible.
Payment options were flexible,of course.
How sweet.
(24:49):
And if necessary, one of thePetrios impersonated the policy
holder.
And with several complicit orunwitting insurance agents in
their circle, many of theseapplications passed
unchallenged.
Just so crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
Absolutely nightmare.
I can't believe this web is sodeep.
It's like a movie where you go,okay, come on, guys, settle
down.
Yeah, like absolutely fuckinglike that.
All these things were in place.
It's like, no, this is true.
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
It's just so crazy.
Welcome to the chart note.
No, I gotta sing to first.
Hang on, I need a sit before Ising.
But before we move any further,for a chartnote.
(25:41):
Mine was more of a chant than asing chart note.
Welcome to the chart notesegment where we learn about
what's happening in medicine andhealthcare.
Ooh, nice grade teacher.
Julia Garcia began sufferingfrom exhaustion, dizziness, and
(26:03):
difficulty walking.
Symptoms that puzzled doctorsfor months.
Her husband Jose recalled herfrustration as physicians
offered conflicting diagnoses.
Eventually, cardiologistsdiscovered that Julia had aortic
stenosis, a severe narrowing ofthe aortic valve that restricts
blood flow and can be fatal ifuntreated.
(26:24):
She underwent a successful valvereplacement with Medtronic
Evolute, transcatheter, aorticvalve replacement, T-A-B-R
system, regaining her strengthand quality of life.
Julia's story highlights abroader issue.
Heart disease is oftenunder-diagnosed and
(26:44):
under-treated in women.
As Dr.
Roxana Meirin, Director ofCardiovascular Research at Mount
Sinai, explained, this imbalancemeans women's unique symptoms
(27:06):
and needs are frequentlyoverlooked.
So to address this, Dr.
Mirin co-led the SMART study,which was a major international
clinical trial designed to closegender gaps in cardiovascular
care.
They conducted across 83 sitesin the US, Canada, Europe,
Middle East, and Asia, and thetrial involved 716 patients,
(27:28):
nearly 90% of them being womenwith small heart valves and
severe aortic stenosis.
It compared outcomes between theMedtronic Evolet and the Edwards
Sapien TAVR systems.
Results released on April 7,2024, show that the Medtronic
Evolut system delivered superiorpost-procedural blood flow
(27:50):
performance, marking a pivotalmoment for women's heart health,
which is exciting, but honestly,I was like most excited that
they were like, wow, physiologybetween men and women is
different, and we need to lookat that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:01):
About damn time.
SPEAKER_02 (28:03):
Yeah.
Nina Goodhart, who is seniorvice president at Medtronic,
emphasized that this was thefirst head-to-head trial to
produce female-specific data onvalve performance.
She and Dr.
Miran noted that women oftenhave smaller heart valves and
different symptom profiles thanmen do, which reinforced the
need for more inclusiveresearch.
(28:25):
Despite these advances, expertsagree much work remains.
Women still represent less than40% of participants in clinical
studies, and both patients andphysicians often overlook the
distinct systems, nope, symptomsof heart disease in women.
The SMART trial is an excitingstarting point, but we need
(28:45):
collaboration among healthcareprofessionals, institutions, and
policymakers to reshape thefuture of medical treatment for
women.
Amen.
Amen.
And if anybody watches Cray'sAnatomy, I mean, can we just
clap for Meredith Gray, who islike trying to cure Alzheimer's,
and they're only studying malemice because male mice aren't as
(29:08):
difficult to study as womenmice.
And she was like, ButAlzheimer's affects women more
than men.
We need to test this, that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
Yeah.
And I mean it may be Gray'sanatomy, but they draw on what's
actually happening inhealthcare, you know.
Yeah.
And obviously dramatize it, buta lot of times it doesn't need
dramatization because it's thetruth.
So yeah, I think we need to lookat that.
We're not the same.
So, well, good for them.
It's a it's a good start.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
Yes.
Okay, back to the story.
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
I mean it's depressing, but yeah, it's
important.
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
Yeah.
I'm just making my font largeragain here because my eyeballs.
Okay.
As the scope of the conspiracy.
Emerged, arrests began.
McDevitt understood thatstandard interrogation methods
wouldn't be enough.
He needed confessions andcooperation from a community
(30:11):
that was bound by fear andloyalty.
His approach was bothpsychological and strategic.
He treated prisoners ascollaborators rather than
criminals, offering comfort,flattery, and occasional
privileges in exchange forinformation.
Some suspects, initiallydefiant, softened when they
realized how much the policealready knew.
(30:33):
As one confession led toanother, the ring began to
collapse under its own weight.
Those who spoke were rewardedwith leniency, and those who
stayed silent watched as theirallies turned to witnesses.
McDevitt's detectives evenescorted some suspects to
restaurants, bars, and familygatherings to win their trust, a
(30:54):
tactic later criticized by localpapers but defended as
essential.
The results were undeniable.
Within months, dozens ofconfessions had been secured
without coercion or violence.
The trickiest case involved Dr.
Perlman, that big puke.
Investigators had enoughcircumstantial evidence linking
(31:15):
him to the poisoning of a womannamed Jenny Pino, but lacked the
key witness.
Her husband Joseph, who had diedunexpectedly.
With no living accuser, McDevittand Captain James Kelly devised
an audacious plan, which I'mlike, this is awesome.
Yeah.
(31:36):
Using information from Bulbur,they coached Detective Samuel
Ricardi to impersonate JoePino's voice, which was her
husband.
In a staged police lineup withbright lights concealing the
audience, Bulber identifiedPerlman as the man who provided
the fatal pills.
Then, from the darkness,Ricardi, who was the detective,
(31:59):
shouted, That's the man whomurdered my wife.
I paid him and Paul Petrio.
He gave me the pills.
Oh, why did I ever kill Jenny?
SPEAKER_00 (32:09):
Oh my gosh, this is like a Shakespeare play.
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
Perlman, shaking and believing the dead had returned
to accuse him, broke down andconfessed.
The tactic, while highlyunorthodox and by modern
standards unconstitutional, waslegal at the time.
The Supreme Court's Miranda'sruling were still decades away.
As confessions accumulated, theweb of corruption came fully
(32:37):
into view, and the ring's reachextended to doctors,
undertakers, and insurancebrokers across state lines, as
I've kind of already alluded toor have said.
It was huge.
Anonymous letters arrived fromas far as Chicago, naming
potential victims and describingneighborhood rumors about
witchcraft and sudden deaths.
By the time the investigationconcluded, 25 people were under
(32:59):
arrest and authorities suspecteddozens more involved.
Trials began in August 1939 andit continued into early 1940.
Each followed a similar pattern.
The prosecution presentedtestimony from toxicologists,
insurance agents, and formerring members, supported by
forensic evidence from exhumedbodies.
(33:20):
The defense tried to underminewitnesses, but the mounting
testimony proved overwhelming.
Out of 25 cases prosecuted byMcDevitt, 22 had ended in
conviction, which go McDevitt.
SPEAKER_00 (33:34):
Badass.
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
Yes.
The key defendants, MorrisBulber, who was referred to as
the mob doctor, by the way.
Paul and Herman Petrillo andKarina Favado received the
harshest sentences.
Bulbur and Favado avoidedexecution only because of their
cooperation, spending the restof their lives in prison.
(33:58):
Paul Petrillo, however, was lessfortunate.
After 10 days of trial, facedwith devastating testimony from
Bulber and another witness namedCaporado.
I don't remember writing thatnow.
I'm like, that's looks likecacao.
Like the tablet.
Not so nice.
(34:18):
Yeah, not so nice.
Paul pleaded guilty.
He later claimed that Bulbur hadplaced him under a spell and
that he'd been controlled by theevil eye and forced into the
crimes.
The judge, however, was unmoved.
On March 31st, 1940, PaulPetrillo was executed in the
electric chair at RockviewPrison.
(34:41):
Herman's ordeal stretched outlonger.
His first conviction for themurder of Ferdinando Alfonsie
was overturned on appeal, butprosecutors quickly re-indicted
him for the death of RalphCaruso.
The second trial ended the sameway as the first, a guilty
verdict and a death sentence.
And he was executed on October20th, 1941.
(35:05):
When the arsenic trialsconcluded, officials attributed
at least 35 confirmed deaths tothe ring, though many suspected
the true number was far higher,and perhaps 100 or more.
I mean, yeah, if this wasstretching into New York, all
the way over to Chicago, like,it has to be way more.
Fulber boasted in court that hepersonally knew of 70
(35:28):
poisonings, though prosecutorsdoubted his count.
Even so, given the ring'slongevity, organization, and
secrecy, investigatorsacknowledged that the total
actual count could never beknown.
Rumors persisted of relatedschemes, arson for insurance
plots, bombings for hire, andtwo independent murder rings
(35:49):
that mimicked the Patrios'methods.
Police pursued Leeds but foundlittle evidence.
What they had already uncoveredwas a staggering was staggering
enough, a vast criminalenterprise that had operated for
years under the guise of folk,healing, and faith.
The crimes would echo throughAmerican culture.
Only a few years later,Hollywood dramatized a similar
(36:12):
story in double indemnity from1944, where Barbara Stanwyck and
Fred McMurray played lovers whomurder for an insurance payout.
But while that tale was fiction,the Philadelphia case had been
horrifyingly real.
I've never seen that movie, haveyou?
What made it so uniquelydisturbing was the fusion of old
(36:33):
world superstition and modernbureaucracy, ancient fears
weaponizing through paperworkand poison.
La Fatura and Maloki gave thecrimes a spiritual gloss.
Forged signatures and insuranceledgers gave them profit.
And together they formed aperfect storm of deceit, greed,
and manipulation.
(36:54):
For the Philadelphia justicesystem, the investigation was
one of the largest in itshistory, consuming two and a
half years from Alphonse's deathto the final executions.
It exposed not only thevulnerabilities of a struggling
immigrant community, but alsothe moral rot that could thrive
amid poverty and fear.
When it was finally over,Philadelphia's streets were
(37:16):
quieter, its people wary, andits faith shaken.
The Patrios were dead, bulberand favado behind bars, and
dozens of families haunted bythe knowledge that their loved
ones had been killed not by fateor illness, but by a business
arrangement, a murder for profitscheme disguised as healing.
SPEAKER_00 (37:42):
But like you hear about this like now and again,
like, oh, you know, could themotive have been, you know, the
life insurance?
But like basically theyfinangled people, whether it's
through emotional or spiritualblackmail, basically, to for
their for them to allow theirloved ones to be killed.
(38:04):
I don't know.
I feel like there's a lot morepeople that needed to have been
held accountable, whether Idon't know if you find that fair
or not, since they weremanipulated.
But also, I mean, how do youfeel about the death sentence
for just two of them and whenthere were so many people
involved?
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (38:20):
I mean, if we were handed them out, probably more
should have got it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:25):
I mean, how about the doctor who gave illegal
abortions and then blackmailedthe women?
SPEAKER_00 (38:31):
Yeah.
I mean, that to me is just sodisgusting.
And they were already in afragile and vulnerable state.
Already low less than insociety's eyes, and terrified
and trying to scratch a livingtogether, and and then that's
held against them.
So yeah, this is reallyeye-opening.
(38:51):
I mean, we think horrible thingshappen now, but I guess it's
been the human condition sinceYeah, it just looks a little
different now.
Time incarnate, which is superdepressing.
Do you think we're any betteroff now?
SPEAKER_02 (39:06):
See, I would love to say yes, but I feel like in
today's culture, society,everything, and with technology,
like I feel like these thingsare just easier to mask and
hide.
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
Right?
I mean, we yeah, and we stillhave human trafficking probably
more than ever.
And yeah, no, uh, that'shorrible.
Well, but thanks for bringingthank you for bringing that up
to our.
SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
Oh, you're so welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
Yeah.
And like for the time too, withpeople very much believing in
like the faith healers and thethe whole spiritual aspect for
that to be used against them aswell.
And it's like the manipulationby that.
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Yeah, no, that's the emotional and spiritual
manipulation and abuse, really.
But also like you turn to yourfaith, you turn to, you know, in
times of desperation when you'restruggling, and there's a larger
proportion of those who areunfortunate who don't have, you
know, and we're scratching out aliving.
(40:08):
And then, you know, would yousteal a loaf of bread to feed
your family kind of question?
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:14):
You know, when a larger proportion of the
population is in that situation,then it invites people that can
take advantage of that andpromise, you know, an out for
nefarious means and and control.
And I just I'm just afraid thatthat pattern keeps repeating
itself, you know, when when wehave a large portion of a
(40:36):
population that are not livingcomfortably, you know?
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (40:39):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (40:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And this and like their businessmodel wasn't going to fail
either because they eithermanipulated those when they
needed to, or people went tothem, you know, like they heard
about and were like, I can getthis, I need this, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
Seeking for they're seeking for hope and for a way
out.
And yeah, who could blame them?
I would too.
So yeah.
It's just rife.
It's just rife for abuse and andthey're vulnerable in in some
sense.
And so uh, I wish I could say,well, oh, thank God that's over,
and that's all timing times, butbut it it probably just looks
(41:15):
different now.
SPEAKER_02 (41:16):
Yep, yeah.
Unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
Maybe we can use this as a lesson to kind of keep
our eyes open to thosesituations, those possibilities.
SPEAKER_02 (41:26):
And remember, guys, if you see something, say
something.
Always.
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
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(43:04):
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SPEAKER_01 (43:07):
Do it! Halloween! No one wants an afternoon slump.
Right?
Same.
Oof.
We got a medical mishap.
We do, we do.
Do you want to read it?
SPEAKER_02 (43:23):
Sure.
Shall I?
Sure.
I feel like the last coupleweeks, I just like my I can't
read.
And then I'm like thinking abouthow I can't read while I'm
reading, which then I feel likeit makes me mad.
SPEAKER_00 (43:38):
Oh no, you've been doing great.
But I'm happy to jump in.
SPEAKER_02 (43:41):
Well, so so just to like um a quick sidebar for you
guys, if you also felt like Ihaven't been able to read, like
I feel the same way, and I'm sosorry.
I don't, I don't know.
And like sometimes I get alittle like it's not a lisp.
I don't know.
It's like slush.
I don't know, whatever.
Basically, if you've beenthinking it, I've also been
thinking it.
So sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
No, listen, you've been doing great.
I don't know what the hellyou're talking about.
Stop overanalyzing.
Okay.
Our listeners and myself, welove you.
So, hi ladies.
I've been loving listening tothe pod, as do my co-workers.
We work in a GI clinic, and thecouple of co-on prep stories
(44:24):
have inspired me to share one ofours that we'll never forget.
Oh, great.
Cheeseburger smoothie guide.
I don't know if I can read this.
Is this why you wanted me toread this?
My gosh.
Okay.
Um, it was a typical Tuesday inthe clinic, meaning phones
(44:45):
ringing nonstop with patientsdouble checking colonoscopy
instructions and the occasionalprep panic calls.
Oh my god, I think I was one ofthose.
Like, am I supposed to can I canI drink something?
Can I uh I just sat down with mycoffee when the phone lit up
again.
GI Nurse Line, this is Emily.
(45:06):
How can I help you today?
I said.
On the other end was a manscheduled for colonoscopy the
next morning.
He sounded anxious but oddlyproud all at once.
Like someone who'd followedevery rule to the letter.
I just wanted to make sure I didthe bowel prep right, he said.
You said nothing solid for 24hours, only liquids?
(45:27):
I replied, That's correct, sir.
He then said, Okay, perfect.
I just wanted to make sure,because I blended my
cheeseburger, and it honestlywent down smoother than I
thought.
For a second I thought Imisheard him.
You blended a cheeseburger?
Yep.
Bun, patty, pickles, andketchup, everything.
(45:48):
Liquids only, right?
SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
Oh my everybody.
SPEAKER_00 (45:53):
Dude, I had to take a long pause, crafting my
response without including anylaughter.
So I gently explained, when wesay clear liquids, we actually
mean things like water, broth,or apple juice.
Cheeseburgers, even blended,don't qualify as clear liquid.
He groaned.
Oh, you mean I did all that fornothing?
(46:14):
I'm afraid so, I said.
We had to reschedule hisprocedure, but hey, on the
bright side, his dedication wasadmirable.
Luckily he laughed, breaking thetension.
Patients are usually not happywhen you tell them they need to
be rescheduled.
He said something like hecreated the world's worst
milkshake.
Yeah, sir, yeah, sure did.
(46:35):
Yeah, gross.
Since then, the cheeseburgersmoothie guys become the clinic
legend, and some of us have evenused this in our bell prep
instructions.
Now, every time I say clearliquids only, I add no
cheeseburgers, even if you blendthem.
Most people are appalled at thesuggestion, but hey, when you
(46:55):
read warning labels, it'sbecause someone tried it at
least once.
Oh my god, isn't that true?
Thanks for taking the time toread this if you do.
We'll look forward to the nextepisode, and all of us in the GI
Clinic will stay suspiciousuntil then, Emily.
SPEAKER_02 (47:11):
Oh, Emily, thank you.
Thank you.
I want to gag thinking aboutdrinking a cheeseburger the
movie.
SPEAKER_00 (47:18):
I mean, he's like, I'm gonna follow instructions,
but I am not giving up my BigMac.
SPEAKER_02 (47:23):
But he's like, gonna have the burger.
Gotta have it.
SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
Well, that's his heart.
Yeah.
Well, thank God he called inbecause otherwise he would have
come and it would have been adisaster on the table.
So yeah.
Don't envy those uh chai docks.
SPEAKER_02 (47:42):
So normally, this is where I would ask Jenna what we
can look forward to next week,but have something very exciting
to share with you guys,actually.
We have a surprise.
We have a surprise for you.
You're not gonna hear fromeither of us next week.
Like we'll be here.
We're gonna be here.
Lucky you.
But we have a guest on our show.
(48:04):
We have a guest, very specialguest.
Her name is Shannon.
Shannon! Shannon! So both of uspreviously worked with Shannon.
She works in the ear, nose, andthroat department of life.
And I know she she had beeninterested in being a guest at
(48:25):
some point in some capacity.
And she had sent me a case idea,and I was like, oh, okay,
awesome.
I'm gonna do that.
And then the more we weretalking, she was like, actually,
I just want to cover it.
And I was like, okay.
Go girl.
Go girl.
So um Shannon's been workinghard behind the scenes doing her
(48:45):
research and crafting awonderful episode for us all
that we get to hear next week.
SPEAKER_00 (48:52):
I can't wait.
SPEAKER_02 (48:53):
I am so excited.
SPEAKER_00 (48:55):
She's a true crime goddess.
I mean, she's the one that gotme turned on to my favorite
murder years ago.
So, I mean, so in part, thisnever would have happened if we
hadn't gotten into true crime,thanks to Shannon.
Shannon, see the oldest all toyou.
Yeah, it's your fault.
So that's what's happening nextweek.
(49:16):
But meanwhile, don't miss abeat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts for stories thatshock, intrigue, and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at doctoringthe truth at
buzzsprout.com or email us yourown story ideas and comments at
Doctoringthe Truth at Gmail.
(49:38):
If you want to support us, wewould truly appreciate it
because you know this isn't freeto put out, but we don't ask our
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This is offered for free.
So if you like what we do andyou want to support us, click on
our support us link, either onthe website or on any of the
episodes wherever you listen.
(49:58):
Uh, we truly appreciate you, andyou'll get true name shouted out
on the show and a chance atpicking a future topic.
So thank you in advance.
And be sure to follow us onInstagram at Doctoring the Truth
Podcast and on Facebook atDoctoring the Truth.
We're also on TikTok for now.
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(50:19):
pod.
Don't forget to download, rate,and review so we can be sure to
bring you more content nextweek.
Until then, stay safe and staysuspicious.
SPEAKER_01 (50:35):
That was all special.
SPEAKER_00 (50:37):
Good.
Bye.
SPEAKER_01 (50:38):
Bye.
Goodbye.
Hey, one, two, three, goodbye.
Amanda.
Jenna.
I'm just finishing a pretzel,sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
Welcome everybody to episode twenty.
No.
No.
Thirty-six.
Yeah.
Thirty-six.
Thirty-six.
Thirty-six.
That's how old I am.
Yikes here, baby.
Only if you ask some people.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
It's all relative, but if you ask me, you're a
baby.
How are you doing?
I'm doing fantabulous.
Ooh, I'm good.
The weather's nice.
It's my favorite.
It's crisp enough to get thepumpkins on the porch.
I mean, it's been so hot.
(00:48):
I was like, are we gonna havelike rotted pumpkin, like cooked
pumpkin outside?
So yeah.
I got them out two days ago.
They haven't died, so there wego.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Yeehaw! Cute, cute.
Husband's outside right nowhanging permanent lights on the
house, which I'm very excitedfor.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
Oh, tell me about that.
What's permanent lights?
Like permanent Christmas lights?
SPEAKER_02 (01:12):
Yeah.
Like he drills this thing intothe soffit, and then the little
light fits up in there.
And then you can run thedifferent colors from your phone
and like have them blink indifferent sequences and stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
You can do different holidays.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Oh, that's so cool.
unknown (01:29):
Ah!
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
I know I was like, tonight can we put on purple and
orange for Halloween?
Oh, that is so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Oh, wow.
I'm so excited.
I'm excited for you.
Eee, I'll have to send you apicture.
Getting in the mood.
Yay! What else is new?
SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
Other than that, not a whole lot.
I feel like we did a little moreorganization on the house.
You know, you kind of like movein and then your main spaces are
livable, and then you kind offorget about the other ones
because you never go there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
Yeah, really.
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
So this past weekend we did a little more work with
things that needed working on.
So now it feels like wow, ourhouse is ginormous, which it is
too big for us, too.
But yeah, it feels good to havethings more organized.
Oh, good for you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
What about you?
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Me.
Well, I mean, I fell asleep andrealized it was April and that I
didn't have my taxes done.
So I filed for an extensionpurely out of laziness.
And the the deadline is like Isthis a dream?
What?
That you fell asleep and youwoke up and it was April?
No, but I mean, like, I feellike I just dozed through the
(02:48):
tax season and I was like, ohcrap, April fell upon us.
And I was like, I'm not ready.
So, you know, with the divorceand whatnot, I didn't know how
to do my taxes.
So I just sucked it up and didmy taxes because then the
extended deadline was October15th.
So I got that done.
Yay for me.
(03:09):
Good job.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:10):
And you know, yeah, I don't love tax time.
SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
Or like I've seen these posts where people are
like, the government apparentlyknows how much money we owe
them, and we have to pay someoneto tell us how much money we owe
them, and hopefully it's right,otherwise we get in trouble.
Yeah.
It's like, can you guys justsend me a letter and be like,
you owe me this much?
And I can just send you a check.
Like, can we take out themiddleman here?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
I know.
And most of the time it's whatthey owe us, and they've been
sitting on our money.
Yeah, whatever.
Yeah.
That's how our system ofgovernment works in the United
States.
Pipe up those of you, 34countries that also other
countries that listen to thispodcast and let us know how much
better it is in your end.
SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Yeah, because we get taxed on the money we make,
taxed on the money we spend,then we have to do our taxes and
pay more money.
SPEAKER_00 (03:58):
And then if you upgrade your bathroom, you need
to get a city permit so thatthey can tax you more because
your house is house is worthmore.
I mean.
Yeah.
It's all good times.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
But you know what?
Wow, we do have nice drivingroads.
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
Well, we have dri we have roads that we have to in
some places like Minnesota, youhave to pay for when they
repave.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
And they have that like road delivery tax in
Minnesota now.
Like if you order a package, ithas like a a charge.
Really?
Did you see that?
SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
Yeah.
I mean it's 50 cents, but it'slike a road charge or something.
SPEAKER_00 (04:35):
I was just shocked that I had to pay$12,000 for
them to repave the road in frontof my house.
Yeah.
And now I have to pay to replacethe part to repave the sidewalk
because one of the governmenttrees' roots has uprooted the
sidewalk so that it's uneven.
And we have to pay to repavethat.
(04:57):
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:59):
I feel like that's your tree your problem.
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
Yeah, but if we take out the city's the city's tree,
that's another 10,000, 15,000,we're welcome to take it out.
But I mean it's just gonna keepBut the tree and the boulevard
are the city's property.
Yeah, and yet we had to pay forthe rate the road to be repaved.
So I don't understand how itworks, but it seems to never go
in my favor, I'll just say itright now.
SPEAKER_02 (05:26):
Okay, so correction section.
There's not any like correctionsto your story at all, but I did
have quite a few people textingme about the how do you say
chart note?
And apparently the Californialaw that we discussed in a
(05:47):
heated, passionate manner lasttime does not include dentists.
So that's good for them.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
I also had someone else say this only pertains to
nurse practitioners, which ifthey're qualified to do the
services that they're providing,then the public needs to
understand that that level ofprovider is able to give them
the services that they need,that they're licensed to provide
in their scope of practice, andthat that scope of practice
(06:17):
belongs to a doctor of nursingpractice.
So if we just say, well, youneed to say whether you're a
physician or not, you're notreally educating the public on
what that means and whether theyeven need a physician to provide
the level of expertise that theyrequire for their condition.
I mean, you can't get a licenseif you don't understand your
(06:38):
scope of practice and when torefer.
So we're not respecting any ofthat, or their years of like you
know how many years a doctor ofnursing practice needs to
undergo to get that title.
SPEAKER_02 (06:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
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Resources for today's episodewill be in the show notes, per
usually.
We're going old old timey today,guys.
And then when I was readingabout this one, it had some like
mystical, magical, like potion-ythings in it.
And I was like, ooh, this kindof feels like perfect for coming
up on Halloween time.
(08:40):
Even though it's not like likewe're not diving into potions or
anything, but I'm just sayingthere's mansions, there's shades
of mystical things.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
I'm excited, just in time for spooky season.
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
I know.
Ah so no trigger warnings.
This episode seems likelighthearted and fun.
Of course, it's like it'shorrible that it happened, but
when it's an old timey, likewe're going back to the 1930s.
So when it's so old timey, likeliterally almost a hundred years
ago, it just seems sofar-fetched, like that would not
(09:14):
happen today, that it's it'skind of seems like, oh ha ha.
Even though it's horrible, ithappened.
And who knows, maybe it's stillhappening today, but we hope
not.
Ooh.
All right, y'all.
Let's get in our time machine.
We're going back to the 1930s,to South Philadelphia.
(09:35):
Phil.
So in the at the time, SouthPhiladelphia was home to a
thriving Italian immigrantcommunity, many of whom
struggled to navigate a world ofnew language barriers, economic
hardship, and unfamiliar legalsystems.
It was a period of tension andhope, but also vulnerability.
(09:56):
Ferdinando Alfonsi, a38-year-old Italian immigrant
and day laborer living inPhiladelphia, died on October
27, 1938 at National StomachHospital.
On paper, his death seemedordinary.
A married white male employed inconstruction, now recorded in
(10:16):
the Pennsylvania Department ofHealth's Bureau of Vital
Statistics.
But amid the official stamps andregistration numbers, one phrase
stood out in bold, smearedletters under principal cause of
death.
Inquest pending.
(10:49):
So, anywho, that's on oursocials.
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
Oh my gosh.
So Alphonse's death wasinitially attributed to
pneumonia, but it was anythingbut ordinary pneumonia.
The autopsy revealed that hisbody was saturated with arsenic,
the same stub substance commonlyused as rat poison.
The suspicions deepened whenthey discovered that Alphonse's
(11:14):
widow had recently taken out aseries of life insurance
policies on him.
There were multiple overlappingcontracts with payouts far
exceeding his modest income.
The case, which had become as aroutine inquiry, soon led
authorities into the one one ofthe strangest and most chilling
criminal enterprises in thecity's history.
(11:38):
A network of poisoners andinsurance swindlers who treated
murder as business.
Wow, you're kidding.
That is crazy.
Detectives Michael Schwartz,Anthony Franchetti, and Samuel
Riccardi had already beeninvestigating a string of
suspicious deaths amongPhiladelphians' Italian
(12:01):
population, and they recognizedthat Alphonse's murder was part
of a much larger pattern.
What followed was a complexinvestigation that uncovered
this extensive murder forinsurance ring spanning
Pennsylvania, New Jersey, NewYork, and Delaware.
The men at the center of theoperation were cousins Paul and
(12:21):
Herman Petrio, two Italianimmigrants who had spent years
of building reputations in theirSouth Philadelphia neighborhoods
as men who could fix problems.
Paul worked as a tailor and anamateur spiritual advisor, and
Herman operated as aphotographer, but moonlighted in
much shadier trades fromextortion to fake insurance
(12:45):
dealings.
And together they built anempire based on desperation and
superstition.
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (12:52):
By the late 1930s, the Great Depression had left
working-class Philadelphians,particularly in the immigrant or
Italian immigrant enclaves,impoverished and afraid.
Jobs were scarce, hunger wascommon, and the promise of an
insurance payout could mean thedifference between survival and
destitution.
The Patrios exploited this fearwith precision.
(13:15):
They found men and women willingto insure a spouse, relative, or
acquaintance for small sums,promising that accidents could
be arranged and claims quicklypaid.
Clients typically paid$300 plus10% of any insurance
proceedings, proceeds exceeding$1,000, transforming homicide
(13:36):
into a form of investment, whichis wild.
And for reference,$300 in thelate 30s is equivalent to about
$6,893 in today's money.
Beneath the veneer of financialcrime, however, lies something
even more insidious.
The organization drew upontraditional Italian folk beliefs
(13:57):
in witchcraft and malachi, whichmeans evil eye, and the power of
potions and spiritual healers.
Like, how perfect for this timeof year.
The Patrios began collaboratingwith Morris the rabbi, Bulbur,
who was a Russian-bornspiritualist and self-styled
(14:18):
healer.
Bulber practiced la fatura,which is a blend of Italian folk
magic, herbal remedies, andpsychological manipulation.
Through him, the Patrios alsodiscovered arsenic.
Many others involved posed asfaith healers themselves or as
fortune tellers, exploitingsuperstition and desperation
(14:40):
with immigrant neighborhoodsbattered by the Great
Depression.
For some, participation in thering represented not pure
malice, but a grim form ofsurvival.
An attempt to translate oldworld magic and misfortune into
new world money.
Arsenic was easy to obtain andin small doses difficult to
(15:01):
detect.
It could mimic the symptoms ofnatural diseases such as stomach
distress, weakness, and gradualdecline.
And remember, we are in the1930s here.
So it's not like going into theclinic today and they're gonna
run a bunch more labs becausethey just didn't have all that
then.
So with Bulber's influence andtheir growing network of
(15:21):
collaborators, the Patriosturned poisoning into an
industrial process.
They recruited m relatives,friends, and neighbors, often
through promises of wealth orsuperstition-driven fear.
A wife who complained about herhusband's drinking might be told
she could cure him with aspecial potion.
But of course, this co thispotion contained personality.
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
He might be dead, but he's not drinking.
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
They're like, honey, do we have a deal for you?
We can just get you set up witha little potion.
It's gonna cure his drinking.
It's like, well, we did deliverwhat we said.
He's not drinking.
Oh, so funny.
I mean, see, not funny, but likefunny.
(16:08):
Yeah.
The investigation intoPhiladelphia's arsenic murder
ring truly began, though, whenAlphonse's death crossed the
line from tragedy totransaction.
In the summer of 1938, arecently released convict named
George Meyer, who ran a smallupholstery cleaning business in
New Jersey, found himself shorton cash.
(16:28):
He was seeking a modest$25 loan,which I promise this is the last
translation of money I do, but$25 in 1930s is equivalent to
$574 today.
Oh my gosh, that's a lot.
I think it's fun.
Yeah.
So seeking this loan, he wasreferred to a Philadelphia
(16:49):
spaghetti and olive oil salesmannamed Herman Petrillo.
Meyer expected a small favor inreturn for the loan, but instead
he was offered blood money.
Petrillo told him bluntly,quote, why bother me for$25 when
you can get$500, end quote.
Oh my gosh.
And proposed that Meyer earn itby killing a man named
(17:12):
Ferdinando Alfonso.
According to Petrillo's plan,the murder had to look
accidental to trigger a doubleindemnity clause on Alphonse's
life insurance policy.
Petrill offered either$600 incash or$2,500 in counterfeit
bills if Meyer would stage thedeath, perhaps by striking
(17:33):
Alphonse with a lead pipe or asandbag and then pushing him
down the staircase.
The accident, he explained,would allow them to collect the
inflated payout.
Meyer accompanied Petrio to meetAlphonse, but ultimately backed
out.
Troubled by what he had heard,he went to the Philadelphia
(17:54):
police to report the murder forhire proposal.
Unfortunately, detectivesdismissed him, assuming that the
ex-convict was imagining things.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
And I mean, and what does it hurt you to take it
seriously?
If it's wrong, you know, sowhat?
At least you checked it out.
SPEAKER_02 (18:10):
Does that is it everyday guys that are people
are walking into the policestation saying someone wants to
do a murder for hire?
I don't think so.
Then dismiss him after that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Determined, Meyer turned to theU.S.
Secret Service, which I'm like,okay, go, George Meyer, because
I would be like, how do you evenget a hold of the Secret
(18:31):
Service?
But you go, sir.
And so this U.S.
Secret Service, he got in touchwith local chief William
Landvot, who took cautiousinterest, which the police
should have done, after learningthat Petrillo was already wanted
for bootlegging andcounterfeiting.
Landvott assigned agent StanleyB.
Phillips to pose as a hitman andinfiltrate the Patrillo circle.
(18:56):
Phillips and Meyer metrepeatedly with Petrillo, who
discussed various ways todispatch Alphonse, such as
drowning, you know, maybe a hitand run.
How about you bludgeon him witha sandbag?
Because according to Petrillo,if you bludgeon someone with a
sandbag, it left no visible markand mimicked a brain hemorrhage.
Oh, he's evil.
(19:17):
I know.
Like what a naughty naughtylittle I can't think.
Yeah, gangster.
Oh my gosh, naughty naughty.
During these meetings, Phillipstried to buy counterfeit bills
while pretending to negotiatethe contract killing.
The deal dragged on for weeksand weeks as Petrio struggled to
(19:39):
secure the fake currency.
At one point, he informedPhillips that the murder for
hire was no longer necessarybecause Alphonse had fallen
gravely ill.
That bastard must have ninelives, Petrio allegedly said.
We gave him enough arsenic tokill six men.
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
Go, Alphonse.
SPEAKER_02 (19:58):
Yeah.
unknown (19:59):
Huh.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
Dang, got brothers out here just literally fighting
first life.
Oh shame.
In addition to this fruitfulinformation gathered after
Alphonse died, his wifecollected several insurance
payouts, but one of the policieswas filed with a forged
signature and drew scrutiny.
(20:20):
Investigators began tracing thepaperwork and soon uncovered a
web of overlapping claims, alltied to the same small circle of
brokers and agents.
Investigators found that many ofthe victims in similar cases had
been insured multiple times,sometimes without their
knowledge, and most sharedsocial ties to the same South
(20:40):
Philadelphia neighborhoods.
In some cases, signatures hadbeen forged by the Petrios
themselves or by complicitinsurance agents.
Others had been recruited byintermediaries, such as wives,
cousins, or neighbors who werepromised a cut of the payout.
When police raided PaulPetrillo's tailor shop, they
found stacks of policy forms,correspondence with insurance
(21:04):
companies across several states,and bottles containing traces of
arsenic laced tonics.
The shop's back room hadeffectively served as the
operations' headquarters wherepoison was distributed and
paperwork forged.
As the investigation widened,detectives uncovered a network
so large it resembled anunderground corporation.
(21:28):
There were field recruiters whoidentified potential clients,
middlemen who arrangedinsurance, and even medical
professionals who participatedknowingly or under coercion.
The ring exploited routinemedical practice in the limits
of contemporary medicine.
Physicians at that time oftenmisattributed arsenic symptoms
(21:49):
to food poisoning, stomachdisease, or heart failure,
especially when familiesreported symptoms in culturally
framed ways.
So this was like a big, a bigweb.
Lots of people involved.
And we're going to talk aboutone naughty-naughty naughty
doctor in particular.
But anyway, as you can see, alot of people involved.
(22:11):
The spiritual front made thescheme possible.
Bulber convinced superstitiousclients that illness or
misfortune could be lifted byspecial remedies like powders,
oils, or charms.
To those desperate enough tobelieve, these treatments
promised both healing andprotection.
In reality, they becameinstruments of murder.
(22:32):
When victims began dying insuspiciously similar ways,
whispers spread throughout SouthPhiladelphia about cursed
families and the mala malokie,which again is that evil eye.
Fear and fascination grew, butfew dared speak openly about it.
It was only after several widowsbegan fighting over insurance
(22:54):
payouts that the threads startedto unravel.
SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (22:58):
Investigators discovered that the ring's
structure extended beyond theneighborhood boundaries.
There were two main divisions: one in North Philadelphia, led (23:03):
undefined
by Herman Bulber, and a womannamed Rose Karina, an accomplice
who had poisoned several of herown husbands, and another in
South Philadelphia, overseen byPaul and his associate Karina
Favato.
Despite territorial disputes,the two groups continued
(23:26):
cooperating, sharing poison andsupplies, occasionally borrowing
each other's clients.
If persuasion failed, thePatrios turned to more sinister
tactics.
Sometimes they seduced reluctantwives, binding them emotionally
before reintroducing theproposition of murder.
Other times they used threats ofsupernatural harm.
(23:48):
Victims were told thatdisobedience could invite a
curse.
Those most vulnerable were thepoor, unfortunately, the
superstitious and the isolated.
They were all easy prey.
I know.
In cases where women soughtabortions, the ring leveraged
even deeper fear.
Dr.
(24:08):
Horace Perlman, a licensedobstetrician and gynecologist,
performed illegal procedures forclients referred by Bulber.
Afterward, Perlman wouldblackmail the women, threatening
exposure unless theyparticipated in the insurance
fraud or murder schemes.
And that's that naughty naughtydoctor that I said I was going
(24:29):
to mention.
Because how freaking horrible.
Payment options were flexible,of course.
How sweet.
(24:49):
And if necessary, one of thePetrios impersonated the policy
holder.
And with several complicit orunwitting insurance agents in
their circle, many of theseapplications passed
unchallenged.
Just so crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
Absolutely nightmare.
I can't believe this web is sodeep.
It's like a movie where you go,okay, come on, guys, settle
down.
Yeah, like absolutely fuckinglike that.
All these things were in place.
It's like, no, this is true.
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
It's just so crazy.
Welcome to the chart note.
No, I gotta sing to first.
Hang on, I need a sit before Ising.
But before we move any further,for a chartnote.
(25:41):
Mine was more of a chant than asing chart note.
Welcome to the chart notesegment where we learn about
what's happening in medicine andhealthcare.
Ooh, nice grade teacher.
Julia Garcia began sufferingfrom exhaustion, dizziness, and
(26:03):
difficulty walking.
Symptoms that puzzled doctorsfor months.
Her husband Jose recalled herfrustration as physicians
offered conflicting diagnoses.
Eventually, cardiologistsdiscovered that Julia had aortic
stenosis, a severe narrowing ofthe aortic valve that restricts
blood flow and can be fatal ifuntreated.
(26:24):
She underwent a successful valvereplacement with Medtronic
Evolute, transcatheter, aorticvalve replacement, T-A-B-R
system, regaining her strengthand quality of life.
Julia's story highlights abroader issue.
Heart disease is oftenunder-diagnosed and
(26:44):
under-treated in women.
As Dr.
Roxana Meirin, Director ofCardiovascular Research at Mount
Sinai, explained, this imbalancemeans women's unique symptoms
(27:06):
and needs are frequentlyoverlooked.
So to address this, Dr.
Mirin co-led the SMART study,which was a major international
clinical trial designed to closegender gaps in cardiovascular
care.
They conducted across 83 sitesin the US, Canada, Europe,
Middle East, and Asia, and thetrial involved 716 patients,
(27:28):
nearly 90% of them being womenwith small heart valves and
severe aortic stenosis.
It compared outcomes between theMedtronic Evolet and the Edwards
Sapien TAVR systems.
Results released on April 7,2024, show that the Medtronic
Evolut system delivered superiorpost-procedural blood flow
(27:50):
performance, marking a pivotalmoment for women's heart health,
which is exciting, but honestly,I was like most excited that
they were like, wow, physiologybetween men and women is
different, and we need to lookat that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:01):
About damn time.
SPEAKER_02 (28:03):
Yeah.
Nina Goodhart, who is seniorvice president at Medtronic,
emphasized that this was thefirst head-to-head trial to
produce female-specific data onvalve performance.
She and Dr.
Miran noted that women oftenhave smaller heart valves and
different symptom profiles thanmen do, which reinforced the
need for more inclusiveresearch.
(28:25):
Despite these advances, expertsagree much work remains.
Women still represent less than40% of participants in clinical
studies, and both patients andphysicians often overlook the
distinct systems, nope, symptomsof heart disease in women.
The SMART trial is an excitingstarting point, but we need
(28:45):
collaboration among healthcareprofessionals, institutions, and
policymakers to reshape thefuture of medical treatment for
women.
Amen.
Amen.
And if anybody watches Cray'sAnatomy, I mean, can we just
clap for Meredith Gray, who islike trying to cure Alzheimer's,
and they're only studying malemice because male mice aren't as
(29:08):
difficult to study as womenmice.
And she was like, ButAlzheimer's affects women more
than men.
We need to test this, that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
Yeah.
And I mean it may be Gray'sanatomy, but they draw on what's
actually happening inhealthcare, you know.
Yeah.
And obviously dramatize it, buta lot of times it doesn't need
dramatization because it's thetruth.
So yeah, I think we need to lookat that.
We're not the same.
So, well, good for them.
It's a it's a good start.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
Yes.
Okay, back to the story.
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
I mean it's depressing, but yeah, it's
important.
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
Yeah.
I'm just making my font largeragain here because my eyeballs.
Okay.
As the scope of the conspiracy.
Emerged, arrests began.
McDevitt understood thatstandard interrogation methods
wouldn't be enough.
He needed confessions andcooperation from a community
(30:11):
that was bound by fear andloyalty.
His approach was bothpsychological and strategic.
He treated prisoners ascollaborators rather than
criminals, offering comfort,flattery, and occasional
privileges in exchange forinformation.
Some suspects, initiallydefiant, softened when they
realized how much the policealready knew.
(30:33):
As one confession led toanother, the ring began to
collapse under its own weight.
Those who spoke were rewardedwith leniency, and those who
stayed silent watched as theirallies turned to witnesses.
McDevitt's detectives evenescorted some suspects to
restaurants, bars, and familygatherings to win their trust, a
(30:54):
tactic later criticized by localpapers but defended as
essential.
The results were undeniable.
Within months, dozens ofconfessions had been secured
without coercion or violence.
The trickiest case involved Dr.
Perlman, that big puke.
Investigators had enoughcircumstantial evidence linking
(31:15):
him to the poisoning of a womannamed Jenny Pino, but lacked the
key witness.
Her husband Joseph, who had diedunexpectedly.
With no living accuser, McDevittand Captain James Kelly devised
an audacious plan, which I'mlike, this is awesome.
Yeah.
(31:36):
Using information from Bulbur,they coached Detective Samuel
Ricardi to impersonate JoePino's voice, which was her
husband.
In a staged police lineup withbright lights concealing the
audience, Bulber identifiedPerlman as the man who provided
the fatal pills.
Then, from the darkness,Ricardi, who was the detective,
(31:59):
shouted, That's the man whomurdered my wife.
I paid him and Paul Petrio.
He gave me the pills.
Oh, why did I ever kill Jenny?
SPEAKER_00 (32:09):
Oh my gosh, this is like a Shakespeare play.
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
Perlman, shaking and believing the dead had returned
to accuse him, broke down andconfessed.
The tactic, while highlyunorthodox and by modern
standards unconstitutional, waslegal at the time.
The Supreme Court's Miranda'sruling were still decades away.
As confessions accumulated, theweb of corruption came fully
(32:37):
into view, and the ring's reachextended to doctors,
undertakers, and insurancebrokers across state lines, as
I've kind of already alluded toor have said.
It was huge.
Anonymous letters arrived fromas far as Chicago, naming
potential victims and describingneighborhood rumors about
witchcraft and sudden deaths.
By the time the investigationconcluded, 25 people were under
(32:59):
arrest and authorities suspecteddozens more involved.
Trials began in August 1939 andit continued into early 1940.
Each followed a similar pattern.
The prosecution presentedtestimony from toxicologists,
insurance agents, and formerring members, supported by
forensic evidence from exhumedbodies.
(33:20):
The defense tried to underminewitnesses, but the mounting
testimony proved overwhelming.
Out of 25 cases prosecuted byMcDevitt, 22 had ended in
conviction, which go McDevitt.
SPEAKER_00 (33:34):
Badass.
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
Yes.
The key defendants, MorrisBulber, who was referred to as
the mob doctor, by the way.
Paul and Herman Petrillo andKarina Favado received the
harshest sentences.
Bulbur and Favado avoidedexecution only because of their
cooperation, spending the restof their lives in prison.
(33:58):
Paul Petrillo, however, was lessfortunate.
After 10 days of trial, facedwith devastating testimony from
Bulber and another witness namedCaporado.
I don't remember writing thatnow.
I'm like, that's looks likecacao.
Like the tablet.
Not so nice.
(34:18):
Yeah, not so nice.
Paul pleaded guilty.
He later claimed that Bulbur hadplaced him under a spell and
that he'd been controlled by theevil eye and forced into the
crimes.
The judge, however, was unmoved.
On March 31st, 1940, PaulPetrillo was executed in the
electric chair at RockviewPrison.
(34:41):
Herman's ordeal stretched outlonger.
His first conviction for themurder of Ferdinando Alfonsie
was overturned on appeal, butprosecutors quickly re-indicted
him for the death of RalphCaruso.
The second trial ended the sameway as the first, a guilty
verdict and a death sentence.
And he was executed on October20th, 1941.
(35:05):
When the arsenic trialsconcluded, officials attributed
at least 35 confirmed deaths tothe ring, though many suspected
the true number was far higher,and perhaps 100 or more.
I mean, yeah, if this wasstretching into New York, all
the way over to Chicago, like,it has to be way more.
Fulber boasted in court that hepersonally knew of 70
(35:28):
poisonings, though prosecutorsdoubted his count.
Even so, given the ring'slongevity, organization, and
secrecy, investigatorsacknowledged that the total
actual count could never beknown.
Rumors persisted of relatedschemes, arson for insurance
plots, bombings for hire, andtwo independent murder rings
(35:49):
that mimicked the Patrios'methods.
Police pursued Leeds but foundlittle evidence.
What they had already uncoveredwas a staggering was staggering
enough, a vast criminalenterprise that had operated for
years under the guise of folk,healing, and faith.
The crimes would echo throughAmerican culture.
Only a few years later,Hollywood dramatized a similar
(36:12):
story in double indemnity from1944, where Barbara Stanwyck and
Fred McMurray played lovers whomurder for an insurance payout.
But while that tale was fiction,the Philadelphia case had been
horrifyingly real.
I've never seen that movie, haveyou?
What made it so uniquelydisturbing was the fusion of old
(36:33):
world superstition and modernbureaucracy, ancient fears
weaponizing through paperworkand poison.
La Fatura and Maloki gave thecrimes a spiritual gloss.
Forged signatures and insuranceledgers gave them profit.
And together they formed aperfect storm of deceit, greed,
and manipulation.
(36:54):
For the Philadelphia justicesystem, the investigation was
one of the largest in itshistory, consuming two and a
half years from Alphonse's deathto the final executions.
It exposed not only thevulnerabilities of a struggling
immigrant community, but alsothe moral rot that could thrive
amid poverty and fear.
When it was finally over,Philadelphia's streets were
(37:16):
quieter, its people wary, andits faith shaken.
The Patrios were dead, bulberand favado behind bars, and
dozens of families haunted bythe knowledge that their loved
ones had been killed not by fateor illness, but by a business
arrangement, a murder for profitscheme disguised as healing.
SPEAKER_00 (37:42):
But like you hear about this like now and again,
like, oh, you know, could themotive have been, you know, the
life insurance?
But like basically theyfinangled people, whether it's
through emotional or spiritualblackmail, basically, to for
their for them to allow theirloved ones to be killed.
(38:04):
I don't know.
I feel like there's a lot morepeople that needed to have been
held accountable, whether Idon't know if you find that fair
or not, since they weremanipulated.
But also, I mean, how do youfeel about the death sentence
for just two of them and whenthere were so many people
involved?
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (38:20):
I mean, if we were handed them out, probably more
should have got it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:25):
I mean, how about the doctor who gave illegal
abortions and then blackmailedthe women?
SPEAKER_00 (38:31):
Yeah.
I mean, that to me is just sodisgusting.
And they were already in afragile and vulnerable state.
Already low less than insociety's eyes, and terrified
and trying to scratch a livingtogether, and and then that's
held against them.
So yeah, this is reallyeye-opening.
(38:51):
I mean, we think horrible thingshappen now, but I guess it's
been the human condition sinceYeah, it just looks a little
different now.
Time incarnate, which is superdepressing.
Do you think we're any betteroff now?
SPEAKER_02 (39:06):
See, I would love to say yes, but I feel like in
today's culture, society,everything, and with technology,
like I feel like these thingsare just easier to mask and
hide.
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
Right?
I mean, we yeah, and we stillhave human trafficking probably
more than ever.
And yeah, no, uh, that'shorrible.
Well, but thanks for bringingthank you for bringing that up
to our.
SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
Oh, you're so welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
Yeah.
And like for the time too, withpeople very much believing in
like the faith healers and thethe whole spiritual aspect for
that to be used against them aswell.
And it's like the manipulationby that.
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Yeah, no, that's the emotional and spiritual
manipulation and abuse, really.
But also like you turn to yourfaith, you turn to, you know, in
times of desperation when you'restruggling, and there's a larger
proportion of those who areunfortunate who don't have, you
know, and we're scratching out aliving.
(40:08):
And then, you know, would yousteal a loaf of bread to feed
your family kind of question?
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:14):
You know, when a larger proportion of the
population is in that situation,then it invites people that can
take advantage of that andpromise, you know, an out for
nefarious means and and control.
And I just I'm just afraid thatthat pattern keeps repeating
itself, you know, when when wehave a large portion of a
(40:36):
population that are not livingcomfortably, you know?
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (40:39):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (40:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And this and like their businessmodel wasn't going to fail
either because they eithermanipulated those when they
needed to, or people went tothem, you know, like they heard
about and were like, I can getthis, I need this, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
Seeking for they're seeking for hope and for a way
out.
And yeah, who could blame them?
I would too.
So yeah.
It's just rife.
It's just rife for abuse and andthey're vulnerable in in some
sense.
And so uh, I wish I could say,well, oh, thank God that's over,
and that's all timing times, butbut it it probably just looks
(41:15):
different now.
SPEAKER_02 (41:16):
Yep, yeah.
Unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
Maybe we can use this as a lesson to kind of keep
our eyes open to thosesituations, those possibilities.
SPEAKER_02 (41:26):
And remember, guys, if you see something, say
something.
Always.
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
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(43:04):
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SPEAKER_01 (43:07):
Do it! Halloween! No one wants an afternoon slump.
Right?
Same.
Oof.
We got a medical mishap.
We do, we do.
Do you want to read it?
SPEAKER_02 (43:23):
Sure.
Shall I?
Sure.
I feel like the last coupleweeks, I just like my I can't
read.
And then I'm like thinking abouthow I can't read while I'm
reading, which then I feel likeit makes me mad.
SPEAKER_00 (43:38):
Oh no, you've been doing great.
But I'm happy to jump in.
SPEAKER_02 (43:41):
Well, so so just to like um a quick sidebar for you
guys, if you also felt like Ihaven't been able to read, like
I feel the same way, and I'm sosorry.
I don't, I don't know.
And like sometimes I get alittle like it's not a lisp.
I don't know.
It's like slush.
I don't know, whatever.
Basically, if you've beenthinking it, I've also been
thinking it.
So sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
No, listen, you've been doing great.
I don't know what the hellyou're talking about.
Stop overanalyzing.
Okay.
Our listeners and myself, welove you.
So, hi ladies.
I've been loving listening tothe pod, as do my co-workers.
We work in a GI clinic, and thecouple of co-on prep stories
(44:24):
have inspired me to share one ofours that we'll never forget.
Oh, great.
Cheeseburger smoothie guide.
I don't know if I can read this.
Is this why you wanted me toread this?
My gosh.
Okay.
Um, it was a typical Tuesday inthe clinic, meaning phones
(44:45):
ringing nonstop with patientsdouble checking colonoscopy
instructions and the occasionalprep panic calls.
Oh my god, I think I was one ofthose.
Like, am I supposed to can I canI drink something?
Can I uh I just sat down with mycoffee when the phone lit up
again.
GI Nurse Line, this is Emily.
(45:06):
How can I help you today?
I said.
On the other end was a manscheduled for colonoscopy the
next morning.
He sounded anxious but oddlyproud all at once.
Like someone who'd followedevery rule to the letter.
I just wanted to make sure I didthe bowel prep right, he said.
You said nothing solid for 24hours, only liquids?
(45:27):
I replied, That's correct, sir.
He then said, Okay, perfect.
I just wanted to make sure,because I blended my
cheeseburger, and it honestlywent down smoother than I
thought.
For a second I thought Imisheard him.
You blended a cheeseburger?
Yep.
Bun, patty, pickles, andketchup, everything.
(45:48):
Liquids only, right?
SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
Oh my everybody.
SPEAKER_00 (45:53):
Dude, I had to take a long pause, crafting my
response without including anylaughter.
So I gently explained, when wesay clear liquids, we actually
mean things like water, broth,or apple juice.
Cheeseburgers, even blended,don't qualify as clear liquid.
He groaned.
Oh, you mean I did all that fornothing?
(46:14):
I'm afraid so, I said.
We had to reschedule hisprocedure, but hey, on the
bright side, his dedication wasadmirable.
Luckily he laughed, breaking thetension.
Patients are usually not happywhen you tell them they need to
be rescheduled.
He said something like hecreated the world's worst
milkshake.
Yeah, sir, yeah, sure did.
(46:35):
Yeah, gross.
Since then, the cheeseburgersmoothie guys become the clinic
legend, and some of us have evenused this in our bell prep
instructions.
Now, every time I say clearliquids only, I add no
cheeseburgers, even if you blendthem.
Most people are appalled at thesuggestion, but hey, when you
(46:55):
read warning labels, it'sbecause someone tried it at
least once.
Oh my god, isn't that true?
Thanks for taking the time toread this if you do.
We'll look forward to the nextepisode, and all of us in the GI
Clinic will stay suspiciousuntil then, Emily.
SPEAKER_02 (47:11):
Oh, Emily, thank you.
Thank you.
I want to gag thinking aboutdrinking a cheeseburger the
movie.
SPEAKER_00 (47:18):
I mean, he's like, I'm gonna follow instructions,
but I am not giving up my BigMac.
SPEAKER_02 (47:23):
But he's like, gonna have the burger.
Gotta have it.
SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
Well, that's his heart.
Yeah.
Well, thank God he called inbecause otherwise he would have
come and it would have been adisaster on the table.
So yeah.
Don't envy those uh chai docks.
SPEAKER_02 (47:42):
So normally, this is where I would ask Jenna what we
can look forward to next week,but have something very exciting
to share with you guys,actually.
We have a surprise.
We have a surprise for you.
You're not gonna hear fromeither of us next week.
Like we'll be here.
We're gonna be here.
Lucky you.
But we have a guest on our show.
(48:04):
We have a guest, very specialguest.
Her name is Shannon.
Shannon! Shannon! So both of uspreviously worked with Shannon.
She works in the ear, nose, andthroat department of life.
And I know she she had beeninterested in being a guest at
(48:25):
some point in some capacity.
And she had sent me a case idea,and I was like, oh, okay,
awesome.
I'm gonna do that.
And then the more we weretalking, she was like, actually,
I just want to cover it.
And I was like, okay.
Go girl.
Go girl.
So um Shannon's been workinghard behind the scenes doing her
(48:45):
research and crafting awonderful episode for us all
that we get to hear next week.
SPEAKER_00 (48:52):
I can't wait.
SPEAKER_02 (48:53):
I am so excited.
SPEAKER_00 (48:55):
She's a true crime goddess.
I mean, she's the one that gotme turned on to my favorite
murder years ago.
So, I mean, so in part, thisnever would have happened if we
hadn't gotten into true crime,thanks to Shannon.
Shannon, see the oldest all toyou.
Yeah, it's your fault.
So that's what's happening nextweek.
(49:16):
But meanwhile, don't miss abeat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts for stories thatshock, intrigue, and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at doctoringthe truth at
buzzsprout.com or email us yourown story ideas and comments at
Doctoringthe Truth at Gmail.
(49:38):
If you want to support us, wewould truly appreciate it
because you know this isn't freeto put out, but we don't ask our
listeners for money.
This is offered for free.
So if you like what we do andyou want to support us, click on
our support us link, either onthe website or on any of the
episodes wherever you listen.
(49:58):
Uh, we truly appreciate you, andyou'll get true name shouted out
on the show and a chance atpicking a future topic.
So thank you in advance.
And be sure to follow us onInstagram at Doctoring the Truth
Podcast and on Facebook atDoctoring the Truth.
We're also on TikTok for now.
Well, TikTok's still a thing atDoctoring the Truth and ed odd
(50:19):
pod.
Don't forget to download, rate,and review so we can be sure to
bring you more content nextweek.
Until then, stay safe and staysuspicious.
SPEAKER_01 (50:35):
That was all special.
SPEAKER_00 (50:37):
Good.
Bye.
SPEAKER_01 (50:38):
Bye.
Goodbye.
Hey, one, two, three, goodbye.
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