Ep 37-The Naughty Nose Doc, Feat. "Don't Call Me Shazzer"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Amanda!

SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Jenna!

SPEAKER_03 (00:05):
How the heck are you?
Doing real fine.
How are you doing?
Well, I think you and I are bothextra happy because we have a
super duper friend, specialguest on your podcast today.
Our guest.
Anna.
Shannon!

SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Jan Jackson!

SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
Woo! Hello, ladies.

SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
Shannon Shannon.
Thank you for joining us.

unknown (00:31):
Ah!

SPEAKER_03 (00:32):
I know we're so thrilled because first of all, I
have to say Shannon is theperson who introduced me.
She's like my true crime podcastmentor because I was doing these
long distance trips and myfriends kept telling me, Oh, you
shouldn't listen to podcasts.
And I was like, whatever.
Shannon came along, she's like,listen, these ladies, my

(00:52):
favorite murder.
I was like, okay, I'll give it atry.
And OMG, I became hooked, andthen it was morbid, then it was
others, and then it was, well,we need to do our thing.
So if it weren't for Shannon, Iwould never have known the
pleasure of this world.
So Shannon, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Yay, you are very welcome.
I am still an avid listener ofmy favorite murder.
Shout out Karen of Georgia.
And I uh I've got plenty more torecommend if you are ever in the
need.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
Listen, are you a Karen or a Georgia in that
scenario?

SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Ooh, I don't know.
Let me let me be a Steven.
Let me be a Steven.
Steven!

SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
I don't see a mustache, but I mean we can get
there.
Thank you.

unknown (01:39):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:40):
I appreciate that.
Uh we're so thrilled to have youbecause besides your true crime
expertise and and passion, youare an excellent provider.
You are someone who you'reyou're a physician assistant
who, in the last, I don't know,seven or years or more, correct

(02:01):
me if I'm wrong, havespecialized in your nose and
throat.
And we've learned so much, wecontinue to learn so much from
you, but we're just reallyexcited to have you on and to
share your perspective with yourstory.

SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Thank you.
I am very excited to be here.

SPEAKER_03 (02:20):
Before you get started, though, we have a
correction section.
Which really, because it wasAmanda's week last week, is
there's nothing to say.
She's impeccable.
But this week was my weekend,we're late.
So that's what we're talkingabout.
Your girl decided to have 103.2degree fever.
Listen, when I get 99 pointsomething, I feel like, oh my

(02:43):
god, I'm dying.
So the fact that it was 103.2after Tylenol this weekend with
a really bad cough, and the factthat I'm the editor and I don't
want to have to deal with mecoughing every two minutes.
We decided to postpone untiltoday.
So hopefully it'll be, I mean,hopefully you find it worth it.
And I so sorry.

(03:04):
So that's the extent of thecorrections.
It's gonna be worth the waitbecause we got Shannon here to
tell us a story today.

SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
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(04:17):
So get your booty over togetcheeky.com and get your
cheeks over to getcheeky.com anduse our promo code stay
suspicious for 30% off yourorder today.

SPEAKER_03 (04:30):
That's an awesome deal.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Yeah, that gun.

SPEAKER_03 (04:34):
So as they say in England, I don't know why.
Gary and Shannon and Karen allhave abbreviations or
affectionate nicknames.
Gazer, Hazar, and Shazer.
So Shazer?
Shannon.

SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
What's your story?
Talk to us.
Jenna.
I hate nicknames.

SPEAKER_03 (04:59):
I know.
I'm so sorry.
I mean, but you are Shazer toomany of us.
We have a lot of UK listeners.
And they're gonna think, oh,Shazer, yeah, affectionately.

SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Listen, listen, you know what?
I we just had another Shannonjoin our practice, and she is a
medical assess a medicalassistant, and she's great, but
with two Shannons, it gets alittle confusing.
And I am going to have all ofthe staff listen to this
episode.
And you know what?
Maybe now Maybe you're Shazerfor life.
Shazer.

SPEAKER_00 (05:30):
But you actually also hate nicknames.
So maybe Shannon 2.0 can beShazer and you can be Shannon.

SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
Maybe now they're gonna call me Shazer, and that's
how they're gonna tell us apart.
So thanks, Jenna.
No, Shazer, Shazer works.
I'm gonna pro maybe I'll proposethat to her tomorrow and just
gauge, see how she feels.
All right.
So first I wanted to give alittle background about me,
which ties into why I chose thisstory.
My story today centers around anENT physician, and since 2018, I

(06:01):
have worked as a physicianassistant in an ENT office.
This man grew up in New York,and I also grew up in New York.
The story partly takes place inIndiana, and I currently live
and work in Indiana.
So many little coincidences thatjust made this story too hard
for me to pass up on telling.
So I wanted to thank you ladiesfor giving me the opportunity to
join you on your podcast andshare this bonker story.

(06:22):
I do want to put out a triggerwarning for suicide.
The story does briefly mention asuicide attempt.
Additionally, most of theinformation that I gathered was
from a 2021 Dateline episodethat covered the story, as well
as a Vanity Fair article by BuzzBissinger from 2010.
The rest of my sources will belisted in the show notes.
So I mentioned that the storyfocuses on an ENT physician.

(06:46):
For anyone who is unfamiliar,ENT stands for Ear, Nose, and
Throat, otherwise known asodolaryngology.
With the ears, we deal withanything from infections to
hearing loss, where you lovelyladies play a huge role in
helping us out.
We could not do our job withoutyou.
Thank you.
To removing bugs from the ears,which happens more often than

(07:08):
you would like.
With the throat that encompassesall of the mouth, all the way
down to your voice box, so we'recovering anything from tongue to
throat cancer, tonsil issues,voice disorders, and more.
But the nose is where we'regoing to be focusing our
attention today.
The nose can cause a lot ofproblems that we in ENT see,
from nosebleeds to nasalcongestion.
But for one doctor, his mainfocus was on sinus disease, and

(07:30):
he made a whole career out ofit, even dubbing himself the
nose doc.
The story I'm going to betelling today is the story of a
physician who truly hadeverything a person could
possibly want.
Things I really didn't evenrealize a person could actually
have.
He had a good, promising career.
He had a wife who loved him, alavish townhome, private
drivers, a sushi chef, personaltrainers, massage therapists.

(07:53):
He had an 80-foot yacht.
He had owned land in theBahamas, and he also had a
private membership to a privatejet company.
I didn't even really realizethat people who were not like
celebrities or famous peoplecould have access to those sort
of things.
I just though that never even,that's not, that's, yeah, that

(08:15):
just wasn't in my in my mind.
Right.
This is the story of the runawaydoctor Mark Weinberger.
Mark Weinberger was raised inNew York, the middle child to
prominent Jewish parents.
Mark and his family aredescendants of the kings and
queens of Chop Liver.
If you've ever heard that say,if you've ever heard that
saying, so what am I, ChopLiver?

(08:36):
Yes, well, that is from hisgrandmother, who started selling
her chop liver recipe in Bronxsupermarkets.
And she and she For real?

SPEAKER_03 (08:49):
What would that be a euphemism for?
Just like, you know, my chop uhwhat am I chop liver?

SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
You know, less than.
Well, she ended up turning herlittle chop liver recipe into a
two million dollar a yearbusiness.
Nice girl.
Okay, okay.
And that was from 1950 to 1989.
So imagine what that would andthat was and that was decades
ago.

(09:16):
Imagine what she'd be raking in.

SPEAKER_03 (09:18):
Okay, now I want to be chop liver.
Listen, what am I?
Chop liver?

SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
I'm worth millions, maybe.
Millions! Yeah, that's true.
And anyway, Mark went to theUniversity of Pennsylvania for
his undergraduate degree, thenwent to UCLA for medical school,
and then went on to theUniversity of California, San
Diego Medical Center, for hisresidency in ENT.
He followed that up with afellowship in Chicago at the
University of Illinois, where hewas one of only two fellows that

(09:46):
were accepted that year.
So it's pretty, I mean, it was Iwould call that prestigious.
If there's only two people whoare attending and you you get
into it, I mean that's pretty,that's pretty good.
Wow.
Like that's competitive.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
Yeah.
I mean, it's not a tiny school.
I mean, it's the University,what, of San Diego?
Well, this was when he was inChicago, but still.
Still.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, they've gotthey've got plenty of
applicants.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
A lot of people, I'm sure, were vying for that spot,
and he was only one of twopeople accepted.
I had been talking about it withthe surgeon I work with.
Hey, Dr.
Judge.
And he said that the rhinologistwho this Dr.
Mark Weinberger had trainedunder was actually one of the
top rhinologists in the countryat that time.
So it was just wild to me tothink that this guy really had

(10:37):
all the opportunity in the worldand threw it all away.
So a little timeline for anyonelistening who is maybe not in
medicine or is just curiousabout how long it takes to
become an ENT physician.
It is typically four years ofundergraduate work to get a
bachelor's degree, then fourmore years of medical school,
then you need to get into ahighly competitive ENT residency

(10:59):
program, which is five yearslong.
ENT is truly one of the hardestresidencies to get into, at
least in today's world.
Not entirely sure how that wasin the 1990s or in the 2000s,
but at least today, youtypically need to be in the top
10% of your medical school classto get accepted into an ENT
residency.
Once you've yeah, it iscompetitive.

(11:20):
Once you've finished theresidency, you then need to pass
a board certification exam.
And that is just if you want tobe a general ENT surgeon.
If you want to specialize in aspecific field of ENT, like if
you want to focus on the earswith autology or neurotology, or
voice disorders withlaryngology, you need to
complete a fellowship, whichcould take an additional one to
two years of training.

(11:42):
Mark Weinberger completed arhinology fellowship, which
focuses on disorders of the noseand the sinuses.
So Mark graduated from hisfellowship in 1996 and began
working in Merrowville, Indiana,which is a sort of shop suburb
of Chicago.
The area is full of steel mills,causing poor air quality and
potentially leading to increasedsinus problems amongst the

(12:04):
population there due to anincreased concentration of
airborne pollutants.
With a focus in sinus disease,kind of makes sense as to maybe
why Mark chose that as his areathat he wanted to kind of settle
down and start his practice.
In 2001, Mark got engaged to histhird wife, a woman named
Michelle, who was about 11 yearsor so younger than him.
Their relationship started outlike many courtships, with Mark

(12:27):
showering Michelle in affectionand vowing to treat her like a
princess for the rest of yourlife.

SPEAKER_03 (12:31):
Oh, wait, love moming?

SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
Right?
Okay.
I didn't even get into the sortof like lavish lifestyle that
they were living.
Like I remember I mentioned hewas a member of this like
private jet that was at his beckand call.
Like they would literally justjet off places on a land.

SPEAKER_03 (12:53):
Should we raise the should we tie raise the tiny
little red flag at this point?

unknown (12:58):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
Are we gonna collect some flags?
But first, the first little red,tiny little flag.
Fluttering, fluttering, butlike, okay, love bombing, watch
out, ladies.
Okay, carry on.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Just to sort of showcase the extravagant
lifestyle that they had beenliving, you know, in addition to
like the random vacations theywould take, they got engaged in
Rome at a piazza with singersserenading her.
Michelle, however, wasn'tcompletely blinded by his charm
and soon began to see Mark'strue colors, a side of him that
would inevitably bleed into hiswork life as well.

(13:34):
I don't have this in here, butit was it's been bothering me.
I feel like I should, I shouldmention that Michelle, in
everything that I've read andthe things I've watched of her,
to her credit, she really wasn'tjust like along for the ride.
She was studying and in schoolherself.
She did actually go on and gether PhD in psychology.

(13:54):
So she did not, I mean, not thatthere's nothing, you know, if
you want to be a trophy wife,like good for, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (14:00):
And good on her for continuing that path that she
was already on when she met him,because she certainly didn't
have to.

SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
But she she she was really trying.
Like she was working, you know,she was younger than him, so she
was still in school when theymet.
So she through all this, she wasworking for her own to have her
own career.
Anyway, just a little aside.
But she was like, no, like thisis what I want to do.
I want to be able to help peoplein my own right, which she does
end up saying in the dateline.
She's like, I became a doctor inmy own right, and she did.

(14:30):
So Michelle, however, wasn'tcompletely blinded by his charm
and soon began to see Mark'strue colors, a side of him that
would inevitably bleed into hiswork life as well.
She learned firsthand how hecould be a callous, careless man
with little empathy.
Her father was diagnosed withstage four lung cancer shortly
after their engagement, andinstead of offering support and
compassion, he complained thattheir fun, joyous lifestyle was

(14:53):
going to end, and he even tossedaround the idea of ending their
engagement.
He basically he basically justdidn't want their like fun times
to come to an end.
This was gonna spoil his funtime.

SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
He's like, this is really putting a damper on it if
your dad could just not.
Could he just not have cancerright now?

SPEAKER_01 (15:12):
Uh oh, flag two of the flags.
All of the flags.
Wow.
They ultimately did get married.
They actually ended up havingthree separate celebrations.
They moved up their wedding dayso that Michelle's father would
be able to walk her down theaisle.
But don't think that this was aselfless act on Mark's behalf.
Quite the opposite.
He was at first adamantlyagainst the change in their

(15:34):
initial wedding date, tellingMichelle that you can't let the
dying people change what theliving are going to do.
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (15:42):
Flag three! Flag three! Red flag, red flag.

SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
Like her father is literally dying, and all she
wants is to be able to have herfather have the moment there
with her.
Like at this point, she'sprobably in her I didn't do the
math, but she's probably in herearly third, early twenties.
I mean, all she wants is to beable to walk with her father
down the aisle.
Like I I got married last yearand I was absolutely sobbing
during my father-daughter dance.

(16:08):
I absolut you know, I obviouslycannot speak for every woman,
but I'm sure that it's manygirls' dreams to have that
moment with their father andthat he was just so what's the
word?
Just so just didn't care abouther feelings.
Like the woman that he'sconfessing his love to,
professing his love to, is justso gross.

(16:33):
And he's a doctor, he's a andhe's a doctor.
He didn't even want to go to thehospital with her to see him.
Puke.
What an ass.
Yes, Amanda, as you would callhim.
He's a big puke.
He's a big puke.
He's a big puke.
In 2002, Mark decided that hewas going to open up his own
state-of-the-art practice.
I have state of the art in airquotes because it truly all was

(16:57):
a facade.
Like he wanted it to look allglitz and glam, but he was
clearly trying only to impresshis patients, people who would
maybe not know any better.
Uh-huh.
He opens up his clinic with thehelp of his father, who loaned
him one million dollars.
That's that chop limited money.
To per to purchase a CT scannerfor his office.

SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Also, like, oh, you care about your dad, but we
can't care about mine.
Oh, only because yours gives youone million dollars.
Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_03 (17:25):
I mean, where's the empathy?
The guy's dying.

SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Like now, if you've ever had a provider order a CT
scan, you know that normally youneed to schedule an appointment
for this, then go to thehospital or another office and
have it completed, then waitseveral days for the radiologist
to read it, only to then waitanother several days to hear
back from your provider with theresults.
Mark figured that he would justcut out the middleman entirely
and have the CT scanner in-houseso his patients could just get

(17:51):
it right done, done right there.
Now, this is not unheard of.
I did actually interview at anENT practice that had their own
CT scanner in the house, so it'sobviously a thing.
But this does raise some ethicalquestions to me, and I wanted to
see what you ladies thought.
So if you're the surgeon andyou're getting a CT scan on a
patient to determine if thatpatient needs surgery, wouldn't

(18:14):
you want an unbiased opinionfrom the radiologist?
Absolutely.
Or if I was the patient,wouldn't I want an unbiased
opinion from the radiologist?
Presuming this man was readinghis own T his own CT scans.
I couldn't find anything thatsaid one way or the other.
What was stopping him frominterpreting them however he

(18:36):
wanted and then determining thatevery patient needed surgery?
There was really no checks andbalance system in place.
This is this is this.
This shouldn't look like that.

SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
Well, yeah.
And he can show them the imageshimself and just say, Yep, right
here on this this slide.
This is the one.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
And they're not gonna know.
I didn't I couldn't findanything that said one way or
the other if he did or not.
So I'm gonna assume now I don'tknow entirely.
I'm just going to think hedidn't.
Well, shoot.
When I was when I was with yougirls and when I was with you
guys in Minnesota, there was aradiologist who was dedicated to
just the temporal bone, like aspecific part of the body on a

(19:18):
CT scan.
Like that's what he focused on.

SPEAKER_03 (19:22):
So he didn't have a radiologist that provided him or
an interpretation and a report.
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (19:28):
I'm just gonna choose to put the fourth red
flag here.
Now, I'm I'm just presuming so.

SPEAKER_03 (19:34):
I mean, people are radiologists as a specialty for
a reason.
They spend all those years thatyou talked about the ENTs do,
maybe not as many, but almost asmany, learning how the
intricacies of these scans andhow to interpret them.
So, yes, ENT then looks at thatreport and then decides whether

(19:56):
it's relevant and what their ownthoughts are.
But ultimately, the radiologistis the expert in interpreting
the scan, not another specialty.

SPEAKER_01 (20:07):
And if that is the case, then there really is no
checks and balance system inplace.
And to further prove my point,according to court documents, at
least 90% of his patients weretold on their very first
appointment with him that theywould need some sort of
sinus-related surgical procedureto cure whatever ailment they
had.
And and in 2003, which is so hisoffice has barely been open for

(20:31):
maybe two years.
In 2003 alone, he billed$13million.
And that's just one, that's justone person.
Now, I try to find numbers.
I asked, I tried to findnumbers, I asked my surgeon who
I work with, couldn't reallytell me like what's a good
number for a surgeon.
This to me just seems insane.

(20:53):
Just to me, screams fraud forone person to be billing in one
year in the year 2003.
I don't know, I don't know.
That was one that was one yearthat he billed that much.
Are you kidding me?
Don't they say you lose money inthat first startup period?

(21:16):
So red flag number five.
And now, if this is how much hewas billing, I don't know how
much he was making from that.

SPEAKER_03 (21:23):
So he's not there's no oversight from other like
administrators or billingprofessionals saying no, you
can't do this.

SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
So he's in a private practice, and in two years, so
we all know, but still, that's alot of money to be billing in
one year by one provider.

SPEAKER_03 (21:39):
Well, we all know whatever we bill, like when you
start up a practice, you'rebuilding up your patient load,
you're onboarding, and youshouldn't expect to make any
money in private practice for atleast two years.
You can't even pay yourself.

SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
That's that's what I would.
I don't, I do not have thatdata, but that's what I would
venture to guess as well.
Yeah.
He named his clinic theWeinberger Sinus Clinic, and
under the massive sign off frontwas a sculpture of a face with a
prominent nose.
The interior.
Oh no, I thought it was funnyalso.
I was really hoping it was justgonna be like a big nose, but it

(22:18):
was it was a face with a nose.
But I the interior was deckedout with nose-themed decor.
He had stainless steel andmarble fixtures, and it was
equipped with a computer systemthat allowed him to bill the
patient's insurance companiesbefore they had even left an
office.
I'm not really sure how thatworked with documentation
because considering this wasstill early days of computers,

(22:41):
that's actually sort ofimpressive.
I had mentioned that he had hisown CT scanner in-house, so he
was really able to operate hisown little one-stop shop clinic.
But not only that, Jenna, likeyou mentioned, he was the only
provider in his clinic, so hehad no oversight.
He didn't even have anothersurgeon in his clinic who could

(23:01):
be like, bro, what are youdoing?
Yeah, it was his show and it washis way of the highway.

unknown (23:07):
Dr.

SPEAKER_01 (23:07):
Weinberger's medical practice may have looked
state-of-the-art from theoutside, with its steely facade
and quite literally on the nosedecor.
However, his medical techniquewas questionable.
I can't speak to how sinussurgery was done in the early
2000s, but according to thearticle I read, even at that
time, the technique he was usingwas outdated.
With sinus surgery, a main goalis to open up the natural sinus

(23:30):
openings, which are smaller thana pencil eraser, to allow for
better sinus drainage.
Dr.
Weinberger was drilling holesinto the back of the maxillary
sinus cavities, which are yourcheek sinuses.
So instead of enlarging thenatural opening of the cheek
sinus, called a maxillaryantrostomy, he was poking holes
into the back, which for someled to more sinus infections

(23:51):
because it really wasn'tallowing for proper nasal
drainage as was intended.
Additionally, one medical expertjoked that he would have he
could have only operated with 12hands because his operative nose
indicate that he only took 25minutes to perform his
surgeries.
When I would say that at leasttoday, an endoscopic sinus
surgery, where you're openingall eight sinuses, you have four

(24:15):
on each side, should take atleast 90 minutes, with the
maxillary sinuses alone taking30 minutes, according to the
surgeon I work with.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (24:23):
There's no accountability there.
It was his show.

SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
Well, I was gonna say, like tubes, bilateral tubes
take like 15 minutes from startto finish.

SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
So like this is a little more intensive than that.
Yeah, a little bit, little bit.
Not only was he performingsubstandard care in the
operating room, which, by theway, was not located in a
hospital, wasn't even located inan outpatient surgical center,
but was actually just in thesame building where he had his
clinic.

(24:52):
He was essentially running apatient mail from within those
walls.
He sometimes saw more than 100patients a day.
No, girl, I know.
Doesn't it make your head justwant to spin around in a circle?

SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
What?
What?
Wow, I would really just feellike I'm getting excellent care
there.

SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
How is that possible?
There's no way you can lay eyeson a hundred people.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
I'll tell you how.
I'll I'll tell you how it waspossible because he averaged
three minutes per patient.
See you for surgery.
Do you know?
I it I was thinking, how muchcan I get done in three minutes?
I can literally introduce myselfand sign into the computer in
three minutes.

SPEAKER_03 (25:37):
Hi, how are you?
Can you verify your last nameand your birthday?
Great.
Listen, off you go.

SPEAKER_01 (25:43):
How three minutes on a full day, I see maybe 16
patients.
And even then, sometimes I'mlike, oh, that's crazy.
This is why I take notes theother day because I'm like, who
was that?
That patient.

SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Yeah.
He shouldn't even have a hundredpatients a week.

SPEAKER_03 (25:58):
A week?
Five days?
Five business days?
There's no way that he met allof them.
He had his nurses doing thisstuff.
Yeah.
There's no way he went.
You can't even shake hands withsomebody in that amount of time.
No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
How how 100 patients a day in three minutes?
There's no way you can provideeven remotely appropriate care
with a schedule that burdensthem.
It's not safe for the patientsnor the provider.

SPEAKER_03 (26:24):
He's putting it all on his staff.
He's walking in and going, hey,how's how's you doing?
Yeah.
And if they're lucky, they'llget instructions from the staff,
from the nursing staff.

SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
In three minutes, you're determining someone needs
surgery.
You're explaining to them thesurgery procedure.
You're telling them the risksand benefits, alternatives.
In three minutes, no.
If that.
If that, if that.
Well, one of those unfortunatepatients was Phyllis Barnes, a
47-year-old who saw Dr.
Weinberger in 2001 for a mix ofproblems, none of which screamed

(26:58):
to me sinus.
And now that is my ENT opinionhere.
She had been dealing withseveral months of a cough that
occasionally had blood in it.
She was losing weight, she washaving trouble swallowing, and
she began having troublebreathing.
She was also a smoker.
Now, if I had this patient comeinto my clinic, I would have
concerns.
At a minimum, I would do a fullphysical exam, including shining

(27:19):
my little flashlight into herears, her nose, and her throat.
Hello, it's called ENT.
I would also feel her neckbecause you have hundreds of
lymph nodes throughout your neckthat can become enlarged if you
have an illness like aninfection or cancer.
Then, because I can't see allthe way down your throat with
just my flashlight, I would takewhat's called a flexible

(27:39):
laryngoscope and take thatthrough your nose and take a
little peek down your throat.
Now, it's my opinion that if youwere to ask any ENT surgeon,
physician assistant, nursepractitioner, and probably even
the medical assistant who workswith the above, they would be
able to tell you that that isjust the standard of care.
But what did Marky Boy do?

(28:00):
According to court filings, notmuch.
Not much.
He only performed a nasal exam,and then, no surprise, he
ordered a CT scan of hersinuses.
He performed surgery to removenasal polyps, which did not
improve her breathing asintended.
Duh, because they were notthere, and that was not the

(28:20):
problem.
What was the problem?
Well, she would find out whenshe followed up with another ENT
surgeon shortly after herpost-op appointments with Dr.
Weinberger, where hecontinuously brushed off her
ongoing concerns.
Her new physician stated that hewas able to see a tumor in her
throat easily upon exam, and hecould feel enlarged lymph nodes
in her neck.

(28:41):
Phyllis had throat cancer.
Her new physician was soconfused as to how Dr.
Weinberger could have missed thediagnosis that he even said that
her cancer would have beenobvious to a first-year medical
student and that Dr.
Weinberger either had onblinders or he simply didn't
care.
She would yeah, she would die ofher illness in 2004, but not

(29:02):
before getting her chance to sueDr.
Weinberger in 2002, telling inher deposition that her symptoms
felt like somebody was hangingme by a rope.
Her attorney made the decisionto depose her, knowing that she
would ultimately be speaking toa jury from her grave, which is
exactly what happened.
She ended up having totallaringectomy.
So it just made her.

(29:23):
So for anyone who doesn't know,a laringectomy is when your
entire voice box is removed.
So you have to talk through alittle, it's like a microphone
that you hold to your neck andit helps create the sound as
you're going to speak.
And so that just even made herdeposition all the more
powerful.

SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
Another patient who filed a civil suit against Dr.
Weinberger was William Boyer.
When William saw Dr.
Weinberger in the office, he wasshocked to be shown pictures
from his exam, which showedbloody, pus filled polyps in his
nose.
He was advised that he neededsurgery.
But guess what?
Those pictures he was Theyweren't of William.
William was brought to surgerydespite also having an EKG prior

(30:06):
that showed an irregularheartbeat.
Now that's not acontraindication to surgery, but
given that this surgery was notnecessary, it certainly should
have been brought up indiscussion for reconsideration.
So how did Dr.
Weinberger get around thisglaring red flag?
He simply crossed out the wordabnormal on the patient's EKG
and instead wrote in normal.

(30:28):
Mr.
Boyer's lawsuit would be one ofthe first in more than 350 cases
filed against Dr.
Weinberger.

SPEAKER_00 (30:34):
Holy crap, 350 cases?

SPEAKER_01 (30:39):
Okay.

unknown (30:40):
Woo.

SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
In 2004, a concerned mother brought her
eight-year-old daughter Kayla tosee Dr.
Weinberger after seeing an adfor him on a highway billboard.
Her daughter was struggling withpersistent, debilitating
headaches.
Kayla recalls her symptoms,stating that she was dizzy.
I was nauseous.
I was throwing up all the time,with her mother adding that she
was beginning to lose her visionas well, and her head was
growing to three times itsnormal size.

(31:05):
But Dr.
Weinberger assured them that heknew where the source of her
problems lied.
Her sinuses, of course.
He operated on Kayla's sinusesat just eight years old.
Now, it's pretty accepted insurgical practice that you don't
operate on a child's sinusesunless you absolutely have to.

(31:26):
Your sinuses are not developedfully at that age.
Your sinuses develop atdifferent, you know, at
different stages at differentages.
And so you certainly can'toperate on all of the sinuses at
eight years old.
But again, she didn't have sinusdisease in the first place.
So he was doing an unnecessarysurgery on an eight-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 (31:45):
I don't even remember what red flag count
we're on.
I'm gonna say 12.
Ugh, awful.
Just awful.

SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
Yeah, that sounds fair.
So the cause of her symptoms wasactually coming from a tumor on
her pituitary gland, which is anendocrine gland about the size
of a pea that's located at thebase of the brain and is
responsible for releasinghormones that aid in growth and
development.
Fortunately, her tumor wasbenign, but by the time she was
seen in Chicago to have thetumor addressed, Dr.

(32:14):
Weinberger had already made amess within her sinuses, which
is often used as an access pointto get to the pituitary gland.
She had so much scar tissuewithin her nasal cavity and
sinuses that her new surgeonswere only able to remove 10% of
her tumor.
Kayla survived her ordeal, andthis woman truly is a badass.

(32:34):
She took this traumaticchildhood event and she owned
it, fueling, using it to fuelher motivation to become a
doctor herself.
I love this quote from her.
So she later went on to attendmedical school and she said of
her decision to pursue a careerin medicine, it's not because of
Weinberger, but in spite of him.

SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Okay, well, before we uh carry on any further into
Shannon's story, it's time for acharno.

SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
I fucked that all the way up.

SPEAKER_00 (33:09):
We were all staring at each other like, how are we
gonna do this tune, guys?

SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
Who's going first?
So is it you?

SPEAKER_03 (33:20):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (33:21):
It can be you.

SPEAKER_03 (33:22):
This was this was gonna be your week.
You can do it.
Welcome to the chart notesegment where we learn about
what's happening in medicine andhealthcare.
Love it.
Today's chart note is aboutsomething new in medicine and
honestly something hopeful.
Because every once in a while,science surprises us, not with
something flashy, but somethingpractical.

(33:42):
Something that could quietlychange millions of lives.
Let's talk about high bloodpressure.
About half the adults in the UShave high blood pressure, and
most of them take dailymedication to manage it.
Some people take two or threepills, and while those meds
work, the daily routine, theremembering, the refilling, the

(34:05):
side effects can wear peopledown.
But researchers have found asimpler way.
There's a new drug indevelopment called I just have
to say how to say it.
Uh, and I forget now.
Zilobsuran.

(34:28):
Zelepsurin.
Zelebsurin.
And it's part of a new class oftreatments that use RNA
interference.
So that sounds like sciencefiction, but here's the short
version.
Instead of blocking a chemicalpathway after the fact, it goes
right to the source.
The genetic signal that tellsyour body to produce a hormone
that raises your blood pressure.
So with one, yes, one injection,zelebs run switches off the

(34:53):
signal in the liver for months.
In clinical trials, a singledose lowered blood pressure by
more than 20 points and kept itthere for half a year or longer.
It works upstream in the Reninangiotensin aldosterone system,
otherwise known as RAAS, forthose people who are above my

(35:14):
pay grade.
Right.
By inhibiting hepatic productionof angiotensinos.

SPEAKER_00 (35:22):
I am so glad I did not read this one.

SPEAKER_03 (35:24):
Fewer downstream mediators of vasor constriction
were activated.
So in phase two trials,reductions in 24-hour systolic
blood pressure of over 20 mmHgwere achieved with single doses
in some cohorts.
The safety profile so far seemsfavorable with mostly mild
injection site reactions and nomajor safety signals reported in

(35:48):
published data.
So, what does this mean?
This means instead of taking apill every morning, you might
get a shot twice a year, andthat's it.
I mean, it's not ready for primetime yet.
It's still in clinical trials,but early results look good.
Strong blood pressure control,mild side effects, and no major
safety red flags so far.

(36:08):
And it's part of somethingbigger.
RNA-based therapies, the samegeneral idea between behind some
of the COVID vaccines, areopening new doors for chronic
diseases like cholesterol,diabetes, and even obesity.
Medicine is learning how to turndown the volume, which for those
of us in the audiology and ENTrealm, turn it to the left, to

(36:30):
the left, to the left.
If you or someone you know hashigh blood pressure, this one is
one to keep an eye on.
It doesn't mean you don't haveto take your meds, but it
signals how medicine is evolvingtowards less frequent and more
durable treatments.
Ask your provider about what'scoming in hypertension care.
Stay informed because thelandscape is shifting.

(36:52):
Why is this story a bright spot?
Because it's not just about newtech, it's about time.
Every skip pill, every forgottenrefill, every side effect adds
up.
A treatment that's effective,low maintenance, and
long-lasting could give peopleback some of that time and maybe
a little peace of mind.
Imagine getting your bloodpressure shot at your doctor's
office once in January and oncein July, and spending the rest

(37:15):
of the year living your life.
So the left I forget how wedecided we were gonna say this.
So the left turn turn still hasmore trials to go, and it's not
a cure.
But it's a glimpse of what'scoming, a future where managing
chronic conditions can besimpler, steadier, and just a

(37:37):
little more human.
And in a field that can feelfull of burnout, cost, and
chaos.
That feels like something.
Now back to the case.

SPEAKER_01 (37:47):
In the summer of 2004, there were at least three
malpractice suits already filed,and Dr.
Weinberger had received arequest from a lawyer to turn
over the medical records of 18former patients.

unknown (37:59):
Dr.

SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
Weinberger could undoubtedly feel the walls
closing in on him.
It wasn't only the doctor whobecame suspicious.
His wife noticed some odditiesas well.
She came home one day from anout-of-state work conference to
her townhome covered in cameras,and her husband proposing to her
that they abandon their life andmove to an island off the coast
of Europe.

SPEAKER_00 (38:19):
Like, honey, do you want to talk about your day?
Seems like a big jump.

SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Yeah.
PSCO removed to Europe.
Like ASAP.
No red flags, sir.
No, seriously.

SPEAKER_01 (38:33):
Mark had shared with her that there were unfounded
legal cases against him, but shehad no idea the extent of what
was brewing or truly what herhusband had been up to.
His medical staff also becamewary of the doctor's behavior.
He became snappy and short withpatients, often ignoring their
questions, not surprising whenyour visits are only three
minutes long.

(38:53):
Staff were also afraid of him,said a former employee.
He also started coming to theoffice unkempt, where he used to
be clean-shaven and wellgroomed.
He started coming in withseveral days of stubble and
would occasionally walkthroughout the office not fully
dressed.
Oh.

SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
What?
Oh.

SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
Like just no suit jacket, or are we missing a
shirt altogether?
We're not sure.
Although.
Can we get a red banner?

SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
Oh, Rick Van Thielen.
Take it off.
I'm not sure.
Did he forget his pants?
I I I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 (39:35):
What does that mean?
Like, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 (39:38):
I just want to put up a red banner.
We're done with the flags.
This is like a whole like redtape crime thing, crime scene
situation.
You cannot walk around as aphysician.
You can only do that in a campertrailer.
Undress in your office.
Okay, I've got to calm down.
Oh boy.
Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
I don't know if it was like your story from several
weeks ago where the guy who wasjust free-balling it.
I don't know, but un unclear.
Unclear.
Like to what degree of undressedare we?
So many questions.
So many questions.

(40:19):
He also had 30 to 40 boxesdelivered.
Did those boxes contain medicalsupplies?
No, they didn't.
They contained a variety ofcamping and survivalist gear,
which he would keep in a roomthat his employees dubbed the
scary room.
Why, why?
Can you imagine working in aclinic where there's a scary

(40:40):
room?

SPEAKER_03 (40:41):
Can't go in there.
The scary room.
Out of the three of us, raiseyour hand if you would go into
the scary room.

SPEAKER_01 (40:48):
Make it known that Jenna and Shannon, oh, oh, and
Amanda are raising their hand.

SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
I think I would quit without having another job lined
up.
Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (41:00):
Uh for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (41:02):
As I'm like, I would quit without another job.
Goodbye.

SPEAKER_03 (41:07):
Well, you gotta see what's in there first, though,
right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:12):
No, I don't need to because you guys are going in.
You will text me later.

SPEAKER_03 (41:15):
Oh my god, the scary room.
Okay.
Hurry on.

SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
In September 2004, Mark planned an elaborate trip
to Greece to celebrate hiswife's 30th birthday.
The trip involved him, his wife,her mother, her hairstylist, and
several of her friends who wereflown from Paris to Mykonos on
that private jet that they weremembers of.

SPEAKER_03 (41:35):
Privilege?
Sorry.
I always take my hairdresserwith me wherever I go.

unknown (41:41):
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
I mean, I'd love to, but Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Yeah.
There he had arranged to meethis private yacht.
However, it was late to arrive,and Mark was visibly nervous,
although Michelle couldn'tunderstand why.
I mean, it's not like theycouldn't afford to spend a night
in a luxury hotel unplanned.
She would later learn that thereason for his dismay was

(42:05):
because he had previously sent ashipment of survival gear to
Greece that was supposed to beon that yacht.
But the yacht finally didarrive, and all was seemingly
fine.
Mark and his wife went to bed,and the next morning, Michelle
woke up to find herselfcompletely alone, the other side
of the bed empty.
Mark was gone.
The yacht captain tried toreassure her with suggestions

(42:27):
that maybe Mark simply went intotown to buy her more birthday
gifts.
But when he still didn't showthat night, she sounded the
alarm and called theauthorities.
The yacht captain then confessedto her that he had spoken with a
local taxi driver who had givenMark who had driven Mark to the
airport earlier.
Mark was not returning to theyacht.
The yacht captain gave Michellea phone number for a secret

(42:50):
Greek cell phone that Mark had.
And when she called it, sheheard his familiar hello one
final time.
But once he realized that it washer on the line, the line went
dead and she never heard fromhim again.
What?
So I'm like, what why didn't youjust leave me at home?
What?
Wow.
Right?
So not only was Michelleheartbroken, I mean, sh the love

(43:14):
of her life just left her.
She was abandoned in Greece onher birthday, and she was left
with next to nothing to figureout her life from there.

SPEAKER_00 (43:24):
And he was like, Well, you at least you have your
hairstylist, honey.
You'll be fine.
Your hair will look good.
No roots will show.
Your hair will be fine.
Your hair will look good.
You'll cry, but your hair willbe fine.

SPEAKER_03 (43:34):
How are we gonna pay this hairstylist?

SPEAKER_01 (43:37):
I mean, holy cow.
So she found on the yacht thatMark had left her 2,000 euros
and her passport.
He also left her a huge amountof debt.
Oh.
$30 million, according toMichelle.

SPEAKER_03 (43:52):
Okay.
Oh, okay.
Thanks, dude.

SPEAKER_01 (43:56):
Now, even though Mark was raking in millions of
dollars a year, he did notreally give Michelle access to
that money.
So she was not able to evenafford a plane ticket to get
back home.

SPEAKER_04 (44:12):
Oh no, bless her heart.

SPEAKER_01 (44:13):
She was not allowed to carry her own bank card or
credit card.
He would give her a cashallowance.
So she ended up borrowing moneyfrom a family member in order to
buy a plane ticket home.

SPEAKER_03 (44:25):
Bless her heart.

SPEAKER_01 (44:26):
She ultimately filed for bankruptcy in 2005 and
listed more than six milliondollars in liabilities.

SPEAKER_03 (44:32):
Which was his, I'm sure.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:36):
Oh, and she in the dateline, she recounts sitting
at home, while like looking ather bank statements and seeing
places that he is still spendingmoney, like in Monaco and in
Greece, and just at like luxuryboutiques.
Twist the knife.

SPEAKER_03 (44:52):
So frustrating, angering, and hopelessness.
You know, I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_00 (44:57):
Leave me at our townhouse.
Like just break up with me athome.

SPEAKER_01 (45:01):
Right.
Don't don't take me to a foreigncountry and just leave me there.

SPEAKER_00 (45:07):
Especially when you know I can't get home, you jerk.
Because they're not divorced,she's also on the hook for all
of that.

SPEAKER_03 (45:14):
For that debt.

SPEAKER_01 (45:15):
And I yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (45:19):
Awful.

SPEAKER_01 (45:21):
So when Michelle returned to the US, she was
stymied and needed answers.
She went to his auntie officeand began looking through his
things.
She found mounds of shreddedpaper, a useless attempt of
Mark's to cover his tracks.
Useless because Michelle was notdeterred.
And instead, she spent threenights piecing together shreds,
piecing together these shreds ofpaper.

(45:43):
Go, girl.
Holy cow.
This was the evidence she waslooking for.
It pointed to two trips to NewYork, where Mark had purchased
$79,000 worth of diamonds.

SPEAKER_02 (45:55):
What?
Who does that?

SPEAKER_01 (45:58):
Along with receipts totaling thousands of dollars
for a variety of survival andcamping equipment.
She also found more credit cardstatements where she was able to
track him to cities in Franceand Monaco, where despite being
on the run and trying to hide,his luxurious spending habits
persisted.
What an idiot.
Oh yeah.
Even though he was on the run,he was not laying low.

(46:20):
No.
No.
Michelle would eventually beable to bring her story to the
masses when she detailed Mark'sfraudulent behavior on America's
Most Wanted in 2008.

SPEAKER_02 (46:30):
Love that show.

SPEAKER_01 (46:32):
The staff at his clinic was also baffled.
He not only left his staff inalerch, but he left countless
patients with nowhere to turn,which in hindsight, to me, they
dodged a major bullet.
Yeah, for sure.
Staff did report, though, thatafter Mark disappeared, they
began to notice large sums ofmoney were disappearing from the

(46:53):
business's bank accounts.
So he wasn't only just bleedingMichelle dry, he was bleeding
his business dry as well.
Mark eventually landed inCormaor, a ski resort village in
northwest Italy, near the borderof France and Switzerland in the
Italian Alps.
It was there that he met MonicaSpaconia, an Italian woman in

(47:14):
her late 30s, who foundfriendship in the fraudster.
He told her he was a formerstockbroker from Wall Street who
had had enough of his stressfullife in the U.S.
and having made enough money tosustain a life abroad, set out
to start over.
In 2009, after living inCormayor on and off for two
years and building thisrelationship with Monica, he
began to express deeper feelingsto this woman, but he told her

(47:36):
that future plans would need tobe put on hold because he had
some goals he wanted to reachfirst.
He wanted to write a survivalbook.
He also wanted to live alonealong the side of a mountain for
one year.
Although he would still rely onMonica now and then for
supplies.

SPEAKER_03 (47:53):
Seriously?
What's that about?

SPEAKER_01 (47:55):
I don't even I have no idea what sort of weird
quarterlife crisis that was, butso Mark may have disappeared
into the snowy Italiancountryside, but the lasting
impact from the havoc he wreckedon his patients did not.
His former patients continued tofight for justice, and after
being nowhere to be found fortwo years, he was finally

(48:16):
indicted by a grand jury inIndiana in 2006 for 22 counts of
health care fraud foroverbilling insurance companies,
not only for surgical proceduresthat weren't medically
necessary, but also forprocedures that were never done
at all.
Also at this time, the FBIissued a warrant for his arrest.

SPEAKER_03 (48:34):
Yeah, boy, they come for you.

SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
So Mark's friend Monica received word, seemingly
out of the blue, from a friendof hers about Mark's deception.
This friend of hers informed herthat something was not right
with Mark, that he was not whohe said he was.
This friend of hers gave Monicahis real name, which she then
searched for online and foundhis fugitive status on the

(48:59):
America's Most Wanted website.
But by that point, Monica hadunfortunately already fallen for
Mark and his unwavering charm.
She had a decision to make.
Good job, Monica.

unknown (49:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (49:17):
Right?
Good job, Monica.

SPEAKER_04 (49:19):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (49:20):
So sort of kind of this is all happening kind of
simultaneously.
But while Mark is living alongthe side of the mountain, he no
longer needs this apartment thathe had been renting.
So what does one do when you nolonger need an apartment?
Well, you simply abandon it andstop paying for the company.
Well, of course.

unknown (49:36):
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (49:37):
Isn't that what you mean?

SPEAKER_01 (49:38):
Well, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 (49:39):
Yeah.
He's not worried about getting adeposit back.
He doesn't care.

SPEAKER_01 (49:45):
So uh yeah.
So after months of overdue rent,this rental agent contacted the
Italian police force, which wasonly shortly after Monica had
also gone to the police.
And this helped solidify herstory.
The rental agency was able tosupply Mark's legitimate
passport photo from when hefirst rented the apartment.

(50:06):
This guy was not lying low.
He is he was he's not smart.
He gave them his legitimatepassport.
No.
And they thankfully still had itand turned it over.
When the Italian police ranMark's information, they were
surprised to learn that he was awanted fugitive with an arrest
warrant out from Interpol.
Because Monica had remained incontact with him as a resource

(50:29):
for his supplies, she was ableto direct the police to his
shelter.
At this point, it's late 2009,and Mark had been on the run
from U.S.
officials for five years.
When the Italian policeapproached Mark, he was
compliant, although he gave thema fake name, Mock Weinberg.
Because he had no proper hecouldn't even come up with

(50:50):
something a little differentthan his real name.
Like something different?

SPEAKER_03 (50:59):
Like, I don't know, George.
Dude, get some imagination.
What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 (51:04):
Because because he had no proper identification on
him, he was brought into thestation for further questioning,
where he admitted to being adivorced surgeon from the United
States.
After some time, the policeasked him outright if he was in
fact Mark Weinberger, to whichhe said yes.
He was arrested and searched.
Mark, realizing his jig was up,began to devise a new escape

(51:27):
plan.
During a break to use therestroom, Mark, despite having
been checked for weapons, pulledout a concealed pocket knife and
stabbed himself in the side ofthe neck.

SPEAKER_03 (51:36):
Oh, goodness.

SPEAKER_01 (51:38):
Ah.
Some believe it was a suicideattempt because he realized he
was caught.
However, the wound was rathersuperficial and he survived.
What did his ex-wife Michellethink of this supposed suicide
attempt?
That it was nothing more than amanipulative act on Mark's
behalf to land himself in thehospital rather than a prison.
To like try to get out on Oh,like an insanity or something?

(52:00):
Yeah.
Good point.
He was extradited back to theUnited States in 2011, where he
faced 22 counts of healthcarefraud and hundreds of lawsuits
that had piled up against him.
A medical malpractice settlementin Indiana involving 282 former
patients of Dr.
Weinberger's granted them ashare of$55 million.

(52:21):
He initially tried to arrange aplea deal, agreeing to plead
guilty if he only had to servefour years in prison.
The judge on the case said, hellno, and throughout the judge,
he'd be going to trial.

SPEAKER_02 (52:32):
Go judge.

SPEAKER_01 (52:34):
In 2012, during his long-awaited criminal trial, he
ultimately did plead guilty toall 22 counts, telling the
court, I'm sorry.
I lied, I stole, I betrayed asacred trust.
He was sentenced to only sevenyears behind bars.
He was released to a halfwayhouse in 2000.
Don't even get me started, anduh, seven years.

(52:56):
I was talking about it with Mattyesterday.
We think it's because he didn'tdirectly like kill anybody that
it was all just medical fraudand malpractice, but still,
isn't seven years soinfuriating?

SPEAKER_04 (53:11):
Yes.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:13):
Especially with how many counts it was, just oh my
God.
So infuriating.
He was released to a halfwayhouse in 2014, which means he
ended up serving less than fiveyears in total when you factor
in time he was granted for timeserved while awaiting his trial.
And just what he did he do withhis new life upon being released

(53:34):
early?
Well, he settled down in Floridawith a new wife and two
children.
And despite having had hismedical license permanently
revoked in 2005, he found a newway to be referred to as doctor.
As of 2021, he was going by thenew moniker, the Yoga Doc,
touting his expertise in yogawith classes aimed at turning
you from a nerd to a ninja, froma zero to a superhero.

(53:57):
Okay.
Settle down, dude.

unknown (54:02):
Gosh.

SPEAKER_01 (54:04):
On his website, you could purchase downloadable
classes for upwards of$200.
He also claims that the tworeasons people work out is to
get hot chicks and look goodnaked.
Well, of course.
Not for any of the other healthbenefits that yoga has.
Like, bro.

(54:26):
It thankfully does not seem likehis disgusting yoga practice is
still in business.
And I am not sure what he'scurrently up to today.
And to be honest, I am notreally interested in finding
out, nor do I care.
I'm just thankful he's notactually practicing true
medicine medicine.
But that is the story ofIndiana's infamous nose doc,

(54:48):
Mark Weinberger.

SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
What a little scallyway.
Wow.

SPEAKER_03 (54:57):
Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 (55:01):
Um I'm like, I'm still so pissed for Michelle
that he flew her to anothercountry to go on a yacht and
then left her there.
Like, why the fuck didn't youjust leave me at home?

SPEAKER_01 (55:16):
Why all the pretense?
Like it just break up with me.
Just I know that's not what Ishould be upset about about this
story, but I'm just No, I know.
But still, she I feel like so isshe even in so in the Dateline
episode and the dateline that Iwatched is an update.
Like they interviewed her, Ithink it was back in 2011, but

(55:38):
Peacock's Dateline, I don'tthink, went back that far.
So I couldn't watch thatoriginal one.
But she's so great.
She's like, she talks about howyou know she really couldn't
have done a lot of this withoutMonica, who turned him in and
and really helped to bring itall down.
So she said that it was it was abig tag team effort.

(55:59):
So I I just I thought that wasgreat.
And like we mentioned earlier,she, you know, she went on, she
finished her degree, and shedidn't let this this big old
puke bag bring her down.

SPEAKER_03 (56:10):
I can't believe that there were 350 cases against
him, and that's all he got as asas punishment.

SPEAKER_01 (56:19):
So what's this is this is not wild in terms of
like the case at all, but as Iwas watching, so first off, when
I watched this Dateline episode,this was back when I was still
living in Minnesota, so Indianawas like the furthest thing from
my mind.
I hadn't even met yet Matt yet.
And then I'm like, oh my God,here I am in Indiana, and I'm

(56:40):
re-watching it again.
And who pops up on the TV butthe lawyer who helps defend
Phyllis, the first case woman?
And I'm like, oh my God, Irecognize that man from all his
billboards on the highway.
Oh my gosh, that's funny.
He's like a big personal injurylawyer, and I'm like, oh my god.
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 (56:59):
I know.
I was like, oh look.
So Phyllis was the 47-year-oldwho saw Dr.
Weinberger in 2001.
She was the one with the throat.

SPEAKER_01 (57:07):
Yeah, she was the one with the big old throat
cancer who ended up with alaringectomy that even a medical
student could should havecaught.
That's that one is the one thatmakes me really mad because
there are just some things youdon't want you that should keep
you up at night and it's missinga cancer.
Oh, I was gonna say, but if thatif that had been caught early
enough, she could havepotentially avoided a

(57:28):
laringectomy.
Like the reasons she got, sheended up getting a laringectomy,
she ended up like being rushedto the ER because she couldn't
breathe and they did anemergency trick.
Like it all escalated very fast.

SPEAKER_03 (57:40):
So talk to us about for those listeners who aren't
familiar with the functionalimpact of a laringectomy.
What does that mean for aperson?

SPEAKER_01 (57:52):
I mean, it it takes away your ability to effectively
communicate.
You you you now have it's it'sdifferent than if anyone's
familiar with a trache.
A trache is another means toallow you to breathe.
So these are all tubes that areare surgically inserted into
your trachea to allow you tobreathe if you have some sort of

(58:13):
obstruction above, you know,above that level.
So it's an incision into yourneck, a hole in your neck that
allows you to breathe.
With with a trache, you can plugthat up and be able to talk
because you can breathe aroundit in some cases, if that's not

(58:35):
what you're entirely relying onto breathe, because you still
have your nasal airway, youknow, it really all depends on
where your obstruction is.
What's different with thelaryngectomy is this is actually
taking your trachea and tying itto the outside of your neck.

(58:57):
So if you block that up, youcannot breathe.
There is no breathing throughyour nose anymore.
Your nose and your mouth are nolonger connected to your airway.
So if you've ever swallowed andbeen like, it went down the
wrong pipe, that can't happenanymore if you have a
laryngectomy because those tubesare no longer in the same spot.

SPEAKER_03 (59:16):
So where is your where is your thyroid?
Where is your your vocal foldsand your ability to use air to
make speech?
So in that scenario.

SPEAKER_01 (59:29):
So your vocal cords are so your thyroid is here,
more on the outside of yourneck.
Your vocal cords are behindthat, but with olaryngectomy,
all of that is being removed.
Your vocal cords, your vocalfolds, the cartilage that's
there, that's all being removed.

SPEAKER_03 (59:47):
Okay.
So your your ability to voiceand talk is gone.

SPEAKER_01 (59:54):
Gone.
Gone.
So you use what's called what isthat device called?

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:01):
So like a communication board or some
other way.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:04):
You can't use your Yeah, it's that thing that you
like the Yes Tobacco.
Electro, an electrolynx.
That's what it's called.
An electrolarynx.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:14):
Okay.
Electrolarynx, which uses thevibration.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:19):
Yeah.
It's honestly if you canremember those commercials from
the 90s that were like, don'tsmoke, and it's those people
with those robotic voices.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Don't smoke.
It's terrible.
Yeah.
Oh, that was really good, Jenna.
Thank you.
But like a huge, I don't thinkwe can underestimate because to
communicate is human.
Whether you're doing thatthrough manual communication
with sign language, or or mostof us are are using spoken

(01:00:48):
language and listening.
So to be to take to lose thatthrough the ineptitude of some
arsehole is just indescribableto me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:02):
Yeah.
And then it's also, you know,she was a relatively young
woman.
It's also the physicalappearance.
Like you now have a hole in yourneck that has a device in your
neck, which can become infected.
You can have mucus come flyingout of it, drainaged from the
neck.
There's no good way to cover itup.
Sometimes you can get what'scalled lymphedema, where because

(01:01:24):
they've mucked around in theneck, your lymphatic drainage is
obstructed.
And so things above that willget all swollen and your face
and neck and head can getswollen.
And so you can deal with a lotof physical issues, the voice
issues.
I'm sure she dealt with some,you know, socialization

(01:01:45):
isolation issues just becauseshe was probably, I don't want
to speak for her, but I'm sureshe was self-conscious.
I shouldn't say that.
I don't want to speak for her.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:57):
No, but I mean, one could imagine that if we were in
that situation, that that's howwe would feel.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:04):
Well, not only that, but he ruined the opportunity
for possibly that whole tumorbeing removed for mucking up her
sinuses.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:12):
Similarly, with the eight-year-old Kayla that was
brought to Dr.
Weinberger, who had headachesand was dizzy and nauseous, and
decided, well, it was hersinuses.
She was eight years old.
I mean, that's not the protocol.
You don't operate oneight-year-old sinuses.
They're not done growing intheir heads yet.

(01:02:33):
Right.

unknown (01:02:34):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:35):
Right.
So he went in there anyway,yeah.
And then created so much scartissue they couldn't get to most
of the tumor.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:42):
Right.
They could only remove 10% ofit.
So this tumor grew with her asshe grew.
And I I don't know how itaffected her as she grew,
because your pituitary glandaffects growth.
Thankfully, it seems like she'sthriving.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:58):
Yeah.
She had to undergo theseinvasive surgeries that were not
only unnecessary, but possiblydevastating, you know, or
obstruct at the very least,obstructing their ability to
actually help her.
So I'm I'm really, really not afan of Weinberger.
Did you tell it?
I I was so mad.

(01:03:19):
I didn't I don't remember whatyou said he ended up doing.
I know it was too short.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:25):
So he got sentenced to seven years in jail, was he
essentially spent less than fiveyears total when factored in,
all of like the time served.
He was released in what year washe released?
Oh 14, that's what I was gonnasay.
Yeah, released in 2014.
So another thing is he part ofhis like arrangement is he was

(01:03:49):
able to serve his time inFlorida.
Like I didn't know you couldjust choose where you got to do
it.
I don't think that's a thing.
Your time.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:58):
I'm sorry.
I'm not a criminal, but can Iserve some time in Florida?

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:02):
I'm tired of just gonna winter keep right.
I'm sorry.
Uh I think that's where his Ithink I think if I remember
correctly, I should have writtenthis down.
It was to be closer to hisfather, who was down in Florida.
Again, his father matters, butMichelle's doesn't.
His father, Michelle's, yeah.
So that's why he was releasedthen in Florida, remarried,

(01:04:26):
unclear if the two children werefrom a previous marriage or if
those are his children, and thenstarted this yoga online
business, which thankfully Idon't think is still around.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:38):
Well, yeah, because you know you gotta get hot
tricks and look good naked.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:42):
Listen, thank you for a fascinating case.
You did a great job.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:49):
Thank you guys for having me on.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:52):
It's well, I mean, when you get a couple things
left to do, but I think what doyou think, Amanda?
Do you think we need to have aregular spot for this young lady
here?
Because I mean, that was prettyawesome.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:07):
I I'd say if she's up for it, I'm up for it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:11):
I would say absolutely we want more of where
that came from.
So thank you, Shesser.
No, no, that's her coworker.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:21):
Thank you, Shannon.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:24):
Good lord.
Okay.
It's supposed to be anaffectionate thing.
I don't know your coworker, soshe's nice.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:30):
She's great.
I just don't like nicknames.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:33):
All right.
No nicknames for you.
No nicknames for you.
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And now it's time for medicalmishap.
We don't normally sing for that,but I just feel so like I feel

(01:07:40):
so jubilant because of ourguest.
Okay.
So this week's medical mishapcomes from a listener that
discovered that sometimes thescariest part of surgery isn't
the procedure, it's the pre-opchaos that happens before anyone
even picks up a scalpel.
Oh my goodness.
All right.
It starts Dear Jenna and Amanda,I love your podcast and your

(01:08:02):
take on true crime inhealthcare.
I've learned so many things.
Throughout the months, I'velistened diligently and I've
learned about when an autopsy isor is not done, when a person
dies, the lack of regulationssurrounding organ and body
donations, the dangers ofunregulated supplements,
marijuana psychosis, how toadvocate how to advocate for my

(01:08:24):
own health and wellness, verifyprovider credentials, and how to
stay safe in an MRI suite.
Look at how much we've learned,people same.
I mean, we we're all learningtogether.
So not to mention all the dodgydentists out there.
No offense to my dentist, Dr.
Thomason.

(01:08:44):
You aren't in that group, saysthe writer here.
Dr.
Thomason has been marked safe.
You're not part of the crazydentists.
I appreciate your rye sense ofhumor and sensitivity of the
victims in each case.
I will literally pee with gleeif you read about this on the
pod.
Listen, get your adult actressout, lady, because we doing it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:08):
I want to add that to my like life.
Pee with glee.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:14):
Bless your heart.
Oh my goodness.
Okay, so then she goes on tosay, on to my story.
I was scheduled for a minorsurgery, a laparoscopic
gallbladder removal.
I'd had the gallstones, thepain, the whole gallbladder,
greatest hits tour.
I was nervous, but mostly justready to stop feeling like I
swallowed a handful of gravel.

(01:09:34):
Oh bless your heart.
The hospital told me to arriveat 5 30 a.m.
sharp.
The world was asleep, and soapparently was the pre-op staff.
Oh no.
The nurse through my IV lookedabout 12 years old.
I know she wasn't, but her badgesaid student nurse intern, which
didn't help my confidence.
She was sweet, but she wasshaky.

(01:09:56):
Like literally shaky.
You know how you can tellsomeone's trying really hard to
look calm.
She missed my vein.
No big deal, it happens, butthen she missed again.
And again.
And by the third attempt, my armlooked like a connect the dots
puzzle.
Finally, she called in anothernurse who got it in one smooth

(01:10:16):
motion and whispered, Don'tworry, we all start somewhere.
I wanted to say, yeah, butpreferably not inside my arm.
I was trying to be supportive.
So my reward was a bruise thesize of a kiwi that lasted
longer than my surgicalstitches.
Next, the surgeon came by with asharpie to mark which side he

(01:10:38):
was operating on.
Standard safety protocol.
He drew a big arrow on my rightside.
Perfect.
Then, as he walked away, he spunback and said, Wait, was it your
left?
No.
Oh no.
Every cell in my body froze.
But then he laughed and he said,Ah, just kidding, and moved on.

(01:11:01):
I laughed too because I didn'twant to start crying before
anesthesia.
I hadn't eaten in 12 hours, somy stomach was auditioning for
sound effects.
Real.
The nurse offered me a cup oflemon jello for later and set it
on my bedside trait.
Why would she do that?
That's so cruel.
Like, why even bring it in theroom?

(01:11:23):
Oh, whatever.
So the anesthesiologist came by,checked my chart, and deadpan.
Who gave the patient food?
I panicked, thinking I hadbroken some pre-op rule, but
being in the same rule as is thesame room as gelatin.
They both assured me it wasfine, but not before making me
promise not to elope with thejello.
I told them I'd keep our love onthe down low.

(01:11:46):
When I woke up after surgery,groggy and full of morphine
dreams, my first question was,Did we save the gallbladder?
The nurse said, Well, it's in alittle medical waste bag
somewhere.
You're free.
I told her, I wanted to name itGreg.
My spouse says that I said thatwith tears in my eyes, like a

(01:12:07):
soldier saying goodbye to afallen comrade.
I want to name him Greg.
A few hours later, a differentnurse came to remove my IV.
She yanked the tape off like shewas starting a lawnmower.
Oh, dang.

(01:12:28):
I squeaked and she apologizedand said, Well, we're out of a
heats of remover.
Well, but I mean, seriously,lady, take it slow.
Wow.
I'm sorry, where did you go?
She then gave me my dischargeinstructions, which I only
realized later were for apatient named Daniel who was 64
and diabetic.

(01:12:51):
Oh no.
I'm neither, but we bothapparently weren't supposed to
lift anything heavier than amilk jug for two weeks.
So I followed those ordersanyway.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:03):
Again, I'm like, where did you go?

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:06):
That's entirely in.
In the end, everything wentfine.
I'm gallbladder free, and Greghas presumably gone to a medical
waste heaven.
But I still think about theintern, the cello, and the
surgeon's fake out joke.
I mean, medicine isn't alwaysabout drama or danger.
Sometimes it's just deeplyhuman.
A bunch of tired, overworkedpeople trying their best not to

(01:13:29):
kill you before sunrise.
Thank you.
If you read this on the pod,stay safe and stay suspicious of
surgeons who aren't sure whichside of the body the gallbladder
is on.
Love Megan.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:44):
I love that she has empathy for people that are just
tired and overworked, butcouldn't be that's a good sport.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:50):
Yeah.
What if Daniel was there to havehis like appendix out and then
the person and they got a callon the appendix out of the
gallery?
Like, what if they got like whatif, or just what if they, I
mean, obviously, ah, just ohgod.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:05):
This stresses me out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:06):
What if it was a whole mix-up?

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:08):
Oh well, she didn't lift anything heavy, um, which
probably was good aftergallbladder surgery, but I'm
worried about the guy thatshould have gotten those
instructions.
Oh god.
The diabetic.
Like, what uh and why are youbringing people food that they
can't eat yet?
It's gonna sit there and get ridof it.
Yeah, here's stare at this.

(01:14:28):
I hope you're not too hungry.
I don't know.
What do you do?
Oh, bless your heart.
Thanks, Megan, for writing thatin.
That's really given us pause tothink and basically freak out
about what is happening inhealthcare at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:43):
Hope your pants are still dry, Megan.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:46):
Yeah, Megan! Listen, I think the fact what a what a
beautiful soul that she giveseveryone the benefit of the
doubt at the end of the day, andshe's just like, well, people
are overworked and tired, andthey're just trying their best.
And like Bara said it like,let's not kill people.
Like, that's the bark.

(01:15:06):
Well, I honestly think that'sprobably true for most of what
we do these days, unfortunately.
Yeah.
Well, Shannon, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
It's been so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:19):
Hey, thank you guys for having me.
Whenever you want, girl.
Open invitation.
No pressure.
We say stop it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:28):
Can we say whenever we want?

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:30):
Stop it.
Yes.
If you ever, if you ever get ifyou ever guys get sick, let me
know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:37):
Yeah.
Okay.
This is how we start to rope youand to be a regular.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:42):
You'll just have to have a case on standby then if
you're waiting for someone to.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:45):
It'll be shout-out Shannon.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:50):
Maternity leave.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:52):
Yeah.
I'm feeling sick next week.
Get on that, girly.
But meanwhile, what can our listwhat now?

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:02):
Oh, I just was just saying, I can have a case on
standby.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:05):
Oh, well, you say it.
Yeah, for sure.
Love that.
Make it happen.
It's it's out there around theuniverse.
It's it has to happen.
Um, so Shannon's gonna be back.
But meanwhile, next week,Amanda, what can our listeners
expect?

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:24):
The only thing I'm gonna tell you is that we're
going over to England.
Yes.
Britain.
Because sometimes I'm like, if Igive you the name, are people
gonna look it up?
I don't want you to look it up.
Just know we're going toEngland.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:36):
Okay.
I'm so excited because you know,part of me is British.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:43):
But that's the only exciting thing about it.
The rest is honestly just trashbags full of garbage.
Well, that's what we're speakingfor.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:50):
That's the meat of the matter.
Am I right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So until then, don't miss abeat.
Subscribe or following Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcast for stories thatshock, intrigue, and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at doctoringthe truth at
bestroute.com.
Email us your own story ideas,medical mishaps, and comments at
Doctoringthe Truth at Gmail.

(01:17:14):
And be sure to follow us onInstagram at Doctoring the Truth
Podcast and Facebook atDoctoring the Truth.
We're on TikTok at Doctoring theTruth and at oddpod.
Don't forget to download rateand review so we can be sure to
bring you more content nextweek.
Until then, stay safe and staysufficient.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:38):
Do you want to do it again?
Oh well shall we?

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:41):
Let's do a stage.
Well, we're just a bunch ofalley cats, aren't we?

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:53):
Okay.
Goodbye.

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