1.17 The Season One Talkback Episode (Bonus)

Episode Transcript
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Joe Diametti (01:29):
We're recording. How long

Isaac Allen Burns (01:30):
have we been recording? Okay. Anyways hey.
It's a podcast. Hey.
It's a talkback episode. What?Oh, my goodness. That's right,
everybody. We're not here for aregular episode of Dodoborne!
We're here for a talkback end ofseason one summary talkback
episode. That's right. Our lastepisode of season one has

(01:50):
released, and we're here tochat. We're to talk about it.
And I need to just before we gettoo far, I need to defend myself
for a second because having hadto listen back to this multiple
times That's good.
I feel like any good GM, youhear things you should've done
different. Mhmm. But I need toexplain and defend myself.
Uh-huh. There's a key moment Ifeel like where the energy

(02:12):
turned against me Mhmm.
For for real. And that's when,if you recall, Crank ran up to
hit my guy, Commander Glenn,whose job it was to be scary and
intimidating. Mhmm. And yourfirst attack fully missed, and
11 was not enough. You needed a15.
And so then maybe, like, twohours after you said, oh, I'm

(02:32):
gonna punch him, then Cappycomes in and is like, oh, can I
actually, like, give the helpaction?

What if what if what if I spend the hope to
help? Like, could the same moveplay out, but I use my Halbert
to try to like grab his ankleand scoop him up?

You know what? In this case, if you wanna
use a help if you wanna spend ahope to give Crank a help
action. And I should have saidno. I should have said no. It's
too late.
We're we've already rolled.We're so well beyond the point
at which you should do this, butI was cocky. Right? I was cocky.
Y'all have been rolling

How much have you lost over this?

Entire time I've been editing. Every time I
hear myself every time I hearmyself say, yeah, you can do
that. What's happening No.What's happening in my voice
there is that I'm gambling.Because I'm like, he would need
to roll a four or higher.
And Cappy's not been rollinghot. And so I'm like, I'll take
those odds. It's a fifty fiftychance. Cappy's gonna run up,

(03:28):
waste of hope. It's not gonnahappen.
Crank's gonna get hit with acounter attack Mhmm. And it's
gonna really, like, set the moodfor this fight. Right? Mhmm. And
then my man rolls up there andhits a four, and you hit my guy.
And I was like, well, that was alot of damage from Crank because
Crank hits hard. And, you know,thinking back, hindsight twenty

(03:48):
twenty, I should've said no, butI didn't. I gambled, and I lost
because if it wasn't clear bythe end of this episode, y'all
were absolutely tanking me.

Annie Hawthorne (03:58):
It's my job.

Rowan Collins (03:59):
That is, in fact, my job. Annie's job is to kick
your ass, specifically inbattle.

Also, if it wasn't that, it was gonna be something
else, man. We were we were wewere locked in

Right.

That whole session.

We had, like, so many grits,

like Honestly.

Like, four or five grits.

On it. Could person?

Could you dice chose us. The dice?

The dice show especially you, Annie. Like, how
did it feel in that fight whenyou were both dealing out a
bunch of damage, but also takinga bunch of damage?

Felt great. You know? I felt like I was doing
what I was supposed to do.

Yeah.

You know? Because, like, I can take a lot
of hits and not go down as we'veseen. Yeah. But I can also hit a
motherfucker really hard. Yeah.

And you did. And you did. It's kinda like
that's probably what Crank wasdoing back in the day too.

Oh, yeah. A %.

Yeah.

This has been his whole life.

Right?

This is kinda all he knows.

And it showed this fight. Oh my gosh. Y'all
can hear like, because the firstepisode of the finale, right, I
feel like I was really agremlin. I was like, oh. Like,
I'm smi you can hear me smilingthroughout it.
It's like bad things arehappening.

Yeah. You can definitely see the energy shift
though. About twenty minutesinto the finale, you

From Gremlin to these fucking guys.

Honestly. Because in my head, was like,
this is gonna be a finale. It'sgonna be intense. Bad things are
gonna happen. And I do wannaknow from y'all, like, heading
obviously, from the beginning,there had been foreshadowing.
There had been me giving hintsthat something was coming.

Oh, yeah.

Now, when y'all were when we were heading
up to the Apple Festival, whatwere y'all expecting?

Well, I can tell you I wasn't expecting an
explosion, but I definitely knewwe were gonna see Chomsky, and
Buckeye, and Sunset again. I wasexpecting that, but that's about
all my expectations were.

Yeah. I mean, I was definitely expecting those
things. I I think we all knewthat we were leading up to
whatever was gonna happen was atthe Apple Festival. Yeah. I
really didn't think Well, truly,I, Joe, at the at the table, did
not have any kind of handle onwhat the hell was going on in
your brain.
Like, a lot of, like, Cappyrunning around doing the
conspiracy bit was a lot of fun,and it was fun to just like

(06:10):
grasp onto the most obviouslynot right answer. But there were
so many times throughout where Iwas genuinely trying to and not,
you know, connecting the dots atall. So, I mean, even right now,
I still don't like fully know

Yeah.

Exactly how it all ties together.

Right. Because I think, like, we're small town
people and so, like, our brainswere small town. Like, as far as
the scale of the politics ofwhat's going on right now, I
don't think, like, at least Iwasn't thinking that far in.

Yeah. I think I didn't really have expectations.
I knew something was gonnahappen. But I swear every time
we sit down in this table, Idissociate. And I just, like No.
Have no idea what's going on.I'm just, like, in it, you know?
Yeah. So I don't know if I hadany thoughts of, oh, this is
gonna happen or this isn't gonnahappen. It was just kinda, like,
whatever happens happens, andI'll react to it.

(07:01):
No thoughts. Just reactions.

Honestly, actually, I think that's
probably the most valid point.Yeah. And I Yeah. I think the
best example of that is the onewhere we have like the weird
fever dream.

Oh gosh.

And you're like, here's a and like in the dream,
it's like and the spotlight goesdown into the forest and, you
know, there's a tabernacle anddah dah dah.

You see a golden path that lights the way
as flickers of starlight seem toshine from within it. You see a
vision of a man standing in themiddle of a large temple on a
rounded dais.

And I don't think I was listening to you at all.
I'm just gonna be really honest.I think I like, think at the
moment that I had decided it wasCyrus's face on that acid
burrower, I was going to talk toCyrus and I don't remember that.
Then when we woke up from thedream, you're like, there's a
sparkle out in the edge of theforest and we all just fucking
ignored it. We all were like,well, let's go into town and do
our own shit, which I think wasthe right decision.

(07:55):
But it's it was very clear that,yeah, like, we were just in it
and not Yeah. Thinking superhigh level at what the overall
story arc was.

Truly, as a GM, I can only seed the pathway.
I cannot I can only lead thehorses to water, but I cannot
make y'all drink. But it reallybecause listening back, it is
like three times that I'm like,you look over and you see
starlight. And I'm like, whatother ways can I

destroy do next? It's like, well, we're gonna go
to the infirmary. Obviously.

Or the

barracks or whatever.

That makes more sense, I think, to the
characters too. And I Yeah. I dothink it's pretty evident that
we're, like, in the moment andin the characters and not like
metagaming in that in that way.It's not like, oh, we see the
objective. It's like, oh, we'regonna do what makes best sense
for those characters in thatmoment because we're we're in it
once we sit down.

Yeah. Again, when I'm at this table, I'm not
thinking like Annie. I'mthinking like Frank. Like

because, truly, it worked out great
because, like, had y'all justgone straight to it. Right?
Mhmm. Y'all would have metPercival Anachronisms. It would
have been really goofy.
My name is PercivalAnachronisms, and I'm the
caretaker of this here Sage'sGrove. But I think that y'all
going to Into the Town firstafter these pretty, like,

(09:10):
intense moments really, I think,set the stage even a little
better for him to come in andjust be like, ah, there's a
staff, and who knows where itis? Uh-oh. So

Yeah. I and I also, like, whenever I heard
that episode back, not to giveyou too much credit, it's gonna
go to Isaac's head, but I oftenthink about how you very clearly
had a plan and then were so youhad to so quickly adapt. So I
just think that that's thatlends a lot of skill to how you
can do that. To go from, like,they're obviously gonna go to
the forest to, oh, Cyrus andCappy have to have a serious

(09:42):
talk. Scarlet's going to tellCrank and Pistachio that she's,
you know, been married off,

like Yeah.

I don't know, the whole back and forth of, like,
kicking in the door and, like,you had to switch through, like,
15 different characters in thatepisode, I remember.

Had to like

Seriously, by the way.

They had be, like, Carol Yeah. Scarlet, the
librarian. Yeah.

Thank you. Yes. That was a really fun
episode because I do loveplaying with, like, that kind of
when the party splits up, Ithink a lot of people get a
little nervous as GMs becauseit's a lot to juggle. And
sometimes, I think what canhappen is you'll have one person
sitting to the side not doinganything while other people are
doing stuff. But thankfully,because it's a small crew, and
I've I've done this for a while,it's a moments like that where

(10:22):
you've got Cappy gulleted.
I think there was somethingwhere, like, y'all mentioned
somebody. I feel like it waslike, oh, like, we can't tell
Cappy or something. And then wesmashed cut to Cappy, busting
down the library. They're like,I wanna talk to you, the
librarian.

And tell me that you don't think that if you told
Cappy how much you loved him,that he would swisk you away
from this town faster than youcould say apple.

She thinks for a second.

Cut two. Kathy burst through the library.

Listen, librarian. Oh, hello.

Don't think that I'm here to whisk you away

and take you to fucking the apple.

There's something going on here, you're gonna tell
me what it is.

I think it's also like to puff up Joe's ego

a little bit. Wait. No.

Cut it. No. Cut out.

Cut this cut. It'll say

nice things about Joe.

Oh, yeah. Sorry. Joe doesn't like nice things
said about him. Timing was all Iwas gonna say.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Take my compliment. Yeah. When you'd
like you know how in, like, thebusiness world or whatever after
something, you're like, whatwere our roses and thorns and
buds?

Right? Yeah. Need something we

need something like that for these
talkbacks of, like, god.Something Daggerheart related. A
hope and a fear.

Hopes and fears and experiences.

Okay. I can see that.

That's good. I like that.

So, yeah, I have a hope then for Annie,
which is that I have a feelingthat if I were to look back at
me editing the episodes, I feellike Crank one liners get the
biggest laughs out of me becausemy I think my the loudest I
laughed was in this finale whentalking about the car that I
introduced and said two wheelsand not four. Like, Joe was

(12:01):
like, oh, we should keep thiscar. We should take it. And in
my brain, I'm like, you know, Ididn't actually think about the
fact they could just get in thecar and drive away. I wonder
what I'll do if that happens.
And then Annie solves theproblem immediately. I crashed
into it, destroy it, and say,that was a threat. That was a
threat.

Right? We prepare and take the car.

He takes the car where?

I just wanna drive it. Look how cool

it looks.

I think Crank is running so fast that he kinda
just barrels into the car andknocks the car.

You hear a small explosion. That's the car.
You doing?

That was a threat. Right?

Annie's ability to deliver the one liners
completely in character

Yeah. Wars me every Like,

it's just so, like, perfectly crank and not
there's no, like like, I feellike I hype up a joke a lot or,
like, I'll try to, like, reallylead up into it and, you know,
Annie will just I mean, out ofnowhere, it's bop and then

You just, like

it's just perfect every time.

Critical hit, like a sniper just Yeah. Coming
in with those one

What can I say? My wit is my best trait.

Hell, yeah. Trulyca's, I think, one of my
favorites. So, like, from thebeginning of this and we we
might talk about, like, how thisall started in a second. But I
will say, from the beginning,when Rowan approached me with
the character of choice andsaid, yeah, their last name is
Troop, and they're a nut farmer.I the joke is right there.
The joke is right there for thetaking. No. I gotta I gotta let

(13:30):
it sit because I was like, Ineed him to say to talk about
nothing, but I need him to do itwhen he's either really mad or
really sad. Mhmm. And so it wasperfect timing when it was just
the dad and Craig, and Craig'sasking about magic, and it
somewhat dejected sad.
Droop patriarch is like, Craig,I've been nutting for years. My

(13:55):
father nutted. His fathernutted, and my children will nut
for the rest of their lives.

The fact that we made it six episodes without

Six episodes without a nut joke.

Without a nut joke.

That's the restraint. That's the restraint.

It's all about the timing, as we said earlier.
Is all the timing.

Even the prologue, like, you go and look, the only
episode that doesn't have anexplicit warning on it is the
prologue. That's how long wemade it into this without just
turning into absolutedegenerates.

I mean I mean, it happened real quick
because the turnip. Turnip?Because okay. To to explain the
turnip, I'm not a freak. Okay?
The turnip, I was thinking,like, oh, he's just like a
little guy. He's just like, oh,just a little turnip. I'm just a
little guy.

You don't hear it?

You don't hear it? No. I'm so warm and
comfy. This so sexual. I wasjust so protected.

Uh-huh.

And next thing I know, I hear rumbling.
Rumbling so hard. Eventually, Igot

Am I supposed to be turning Well,

like, I'm because I'm in the moment. I'm
I'm juggling 10 things. So I'mlike, I'm just a little guy
turning up. And then you comein. I swear, when we recorded
it, it was so much earlier thanit actually is.
So you're like, is this supposedto be sexual? And I was like,
well, of course, I've this is anoffering. My scene partner has
given me a scene, and so I willlean into it. And then the sexy

(15:24):
turnip was born, and now that'severy turnip is just gonna be
every

time. Every every turnip is just

An action.

So horny. Yep. Just so breathy.

Just so breathy.

But, yes, speaking of which, like, we
started this couple months agoat this point, kind of from
nowhere. Like, how are y'allfeeling now between, like,
episode one and now episode 16,the finale? Like, how has the
game sort of changed for y'all?

I will say I love D and D. It was my original
start in the role playing. And Ilove the numbers, and I love the
dice rolling, and I I love beingcreative within that. I think
that Dagger Heart specificallygives you a lot more freedom to
kind of storytell and becreative because it has that
hope and fear dynamic. Sowhether or not you succeed or

(16:13):
fail, you still have thatcreativity to have something
good or something bad happen.

Yeah.

So and I think it it lends itself really well
to collaborative storytelling.Yeah. And I love that about it.

Yeah. Also, like, the spells as well,
specifically. D and D, I'm notpurse a person that can do
spells because you have tomemorize what all of them do and
all the contingencies. In thisone, it gives you a little bit
more ability to be creative likeyou said. Because I don't know
if the people listening canfigure out, but a dodo is not
typically something that youcould beast form into or

(16:48):
something that you can beastform into and make weird.
But with Daggerheart, I was ableto kind of, like, basically
flavor it that way and make thecharacter more unique in that
way. So, yeah, it makes it makesthe things that I'm a little bit
more apprehensive and tryingeasier, I guess, to get jump
into. What about you, Joe?

Yeah. So, I mean, I'm as I was I was adopted by
this group. Like, I'd never I'venever played any TTRPG until
Isaac adopted me in when did youadopt me? '21, maybe?

Because it was a friend of ours was running
Curse of Strahd.

But, yeah, I mean, so I, you know, I didn't have a
I always knew it was something Iwanted to be a part of, and I
just had never, like, ended upin the right circles, I think.
So Isaac adopted me and, youknow, I had a bunch of fun, and
then, you know, when he puttogether this gang when we
played a couple years ago, Ithink for his birthday. That's
right. Yeah.

I forced y'all to come play with me on my
birthday.

Yeah. I did an Avengers seek out from different
groups Yeah. Birthday.

Yeah. But when we did that, that was also a pretty
big game changer for me, andlike, oh, like, this can really
be fun and different. So, like,Daggerheart, when we started
playing that with that campaignfrom the beta that we did, I
just Yeah. I definitely leanmore towards Kinda like, as a
newer player, I felt like itawarded me a lot more ability to
try new things and, you know,kinda really understand the game

(18:15):
and stuff, so

For sure. It because when we played with
y'all I say, wait, when I playedwith y'all the very first time,
it was definitely an off thewall sort of idea that I had.
And y'all, like, took it and ranwith it in a way where I was
like, yes. This is fun. This isgood.

Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, that was the first
moment we really decided that,like, we work really well
together. Yeah. Like, we playoff each other really well.

Mhmm.

Yeah. Honestly.

What was the what was the one shot? I can't
remember.

So I had just played Disco Elysium. And so we
did a one shot where y'all weremusicians coming back to the
city of Reverie within, like,the world of Disco Elysium,
which was called Reverie. Andyou were trying to find your
mentor because y'all were aband. And I just remember, like,
at the very start, y'all came inwith such strong personalities

(19:04):
and characters.

Well, we did, like, the the Scooby Doo live
action movie where, like, wewere a band at one point, but
then it, like, broken up. Thementor thing is what got us back
together. That was fun.

Yeah.

And really, we have Joe to thank for the
podcast because after we playedthat one Daggerheart campaign,
Joe was like Yeah.

Joe Joe just, like, ran with it.

Truly. Joe sold it. Basically, like, Joe
said, we should do a podcast.And Annie was like, that sounds
fun. And then me and me andRowan were both like, I don't
know.

Remember I remember Isaac was the one that
I had to, like, really sale.Wait. Really

sell? Sail.

Sail. Because I was like because

I was like, if I'm gonna be a GM, like,
being having it recorded is alot of work. But I think the
thing that got me was I waslike, well, I don't expect this
to go anywhere, so all it'sgonna be is this will just I
don't

think any of us expected it to go anywhere.
Right.

I was like

I was just like, this is gonna be a good
way for me to have recordedsessions so that I can go back
and listen

to Yeah. Right. Yeah.

There's that quote where it's like, if I knew how
hard it was when we started, Iwould never do

it. Yeah.

I mean, like, this has been so incredibly
rewarding, but yeah, I truly Iwas like, let's start a podcast.
I had no idea. I had absolutelyno clue the amount of just,
like, learning how audio worksand editing and, you know, doing
all of that. So Yeah. I mean,it's been, like I said, super
rewarding.
I mean, I've I've had anabsolute blast doing it, truly.

(20:35):
Yeah. So I'm glad I'm almostglad that we didn't know that
much when we started.Absolutely. Right?
I mean, we kinda just did it andthen

And now

we figured it out.

Yeah. We kinda figured out we were going.

If I knew how awful the sounds that my mouth
would make as I'm listening toit back, I would have said, no,
I will never edit because Icannot give myself such a
complex. But now I'm drinkinglots of water. I'm staying
hydrated. Look.

It's good for your skin. Right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh my goodness.

Oh gosh.

Yeah. It's funny because, like, when we
first met up for the podcast,right, it was like, yeah. Why
not? We were in my, like,library slash craft room in the
just like a really small room.We were like, this will just be
like a session zero.
It'll just be like a little justa little one shot thing, like

Well, I had just I had just gotten the mics. I
remember. It was like three daysbefore. So this was like
October? Or wait, no.
Yeah. This was October. October.So we had just gotten the mics
and like three days later, we'relike, we'll test out the mics,
we'll do a session zero.

See how it goes.

And it'll never see the light of day. That was
the whole thing. And then thatended up becoming

The first three episodes?

The prologue and then the sexy turn up and
unstoppable crank.

Yep. Unstoppable mystery.

The hill gators.

Yep. The hill gators.

So Yeah. Because it's I don't know. We
just had such good energy, Ifeel like, because we were all
like, nah, this isn't gonna goout. Who cares? We're just
talking to the mic.
We're just having fun. Yeah.I'll make a weird voice for a
turnip. Why not? Oh my good.
But then we were like, this isso good. We'll just we'll just
start here and then take offwith it. So Yeah. Yep. But
because I remember starting off,it was like everyone was

(22:12):
thinking, like, what are ourwhat are the characters gonna
be?

Yep.

I'm pretty sure, like, in session zero, we
we didn't include it in theepisode where we sat down and
did all the connections andthings. But y'all had your own
sort of ideas that we came with,and we pretty much came to the
table with those ideas. Y'allhad sent me a few things
beforehand, like backstories ofvarying lengths. But when we
came to the table, it was likewe just did all the connections.

(22:35):
We figured out what everyone wasat, and then we just sort of
started.
And now look at us. Now look howit's all come together. But
that's what's but that's onething I do like about
Daggerheart coming from it as aGM is that not to get too far
into how, like, my thoughts onDaggerheart, but I will say it's
very important to havecharacters who kinda know each
other. Right? Mhmm.
Because if you're coming in witha bunch of people who, like,

(22:58):
have no indication of eachother, it's really hard to mesh
well Mhmm. If you're doing,like, a campaign. Like, you have
to play through a lot of them,like, learning each other and
everything. And it's so mucheasier if you just start kinda
knowing each other, even if it'sjust a little bit, even if it's
just things you kinda know abouteach other. Mhmm.
That starts the players off onsomething they can work with.
And so the fact that Daggerheartdoes that right up front, where

(23:19):
it's like, how do you know eachother Right. Really helps with
just like starting the party outon a foot that you can work on
and build on. Yeah. Which Ireally like.
And that's what we did at thetable. We didn't record it, but
that's what we did at the table.And you can see, I think, a lot
of that in, you know, in the inthe development of each other.
So

Right.

For

sure. But yeah. So what's everyone's
favorite? I have to know. What'severyone's favorite moment from
all of season one?

I have to say the soft of rope is our best
joke. That's my favorite thingwe've ever done.

We learned what a handful of money is. Yeah. How
much is a soft of rope?

A soft of rope?

That's in my equipment, I have a soft of
rope.

A soft of rope? Okay.

Oh my god. I do too. Wait. No. I think that says
50 feet, man.

Oh, that's a real life term? Truly. You have
always been the biggestadvocate.

I

It's also it's a Spencer's favorite joke too. So
it's a like, it looked likesoccer.

Really did because I looked at it after you
looked at it and I was like, oh,wait.

Me too. Wait a second. Wait. Wait. Because all
three of us have some sort oflike cause we're all using
demiplane.
Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so like, we were all you started out with a
softer rope in your adventurer'skit and so all of us were
looking at the kerning of it andwe're like, oh, yeah. Wait a
sec.

I just

like it made I was like, oh, look at them. They're
just doing another new, like, ahandful of money. Like, we're
not gonna do gold or silver,like, coins. It's just a handful
or, you know, whatever. Like, asofter rope makes perfect sense.

Or softer gauze. Now, it's just like And

yeah. Now, it's just ingrained in our entire
campaign.

Of measurement. And if you tie two softs
together, that's a medium.

Oh, nice.

Three. And then and then you can have a seance.
Yep.

But truly, I did control f, the word soft,
into the PDF beta rules. I foundnothing and was like, what is he
talking about? Oh my goodness.

Unfortunately, isn't it isn't it gonna be 50
feet now? So it's gone.

It's so feet.

It's never gonna be gone. It's always gonna
be us off.

Was gonna call us know that yet.

Yeah. It's always I'm always gonna call it

us off.

But if you listen to the show, that is that's
maybe the only thing I ask isthat any time going forward, if
you have a chance to say asoftware even if, like, your GM
has no idea what the fuck

you're talking

about, fucking do it. Just make this live on
forever.

Yes, please.

You know, and in a, you know, a ludonarrative
sense, right, it would make alot of real world sense that if
a unit of measurement that is inevery adventuring pack is 50
feet, they would have a word forit. I'm sure. Yeah. Mhmm. Like,
we have what?
Furlongs and leagues and for allkinds of crazy measure that made
sense in the, like, 17 hundreds.Right.

Yeah. A scheme, I think.

Yep. Schemes. Anyway, the subject is good. My
favorite moment. Yeah?
I felt like you were gonna askme this and I was thinking of a
couple on the way over here. ButYeah. The only one that's coming
to my mind now is your Dodobornereveal.

Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Don't ever doubt the power of stories.
That's right. It's me. It's me.Isaac Allen first.
Total of you. Everything haspurpose. It was such a thing as
coincidence, people. It's like,keep your eyes and ears open.
I'm two steps ahead of you atall times.
If you think you've got mefigured out, I'm five steps
ahead of you.

Oh, my God.

Can I tell y'all?

I Just because, like so, like, like, just I I
wanna tell you my point of viewfirst and then you can No. Yeah.
Tell us how you've gotta reworkthe whole fucking thing. When we
sat down in a bar to talk aboutthis podcast and we were like,
let's try to think of a name.

Right. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.

I actually think, if I'm not wrong, you guys can
correct me, but I think it wasAnnie that came up with the
name. I don't I we were sittingdown and I remember Why? Because
I remember I had a name and Iwanted it to be something born.
I think I just wanted to take,like

Yeah.

One of the borns from the book and go do that and
the argument was it wasn't goofyenough or, like, it didn't show
that we were gonna be quickRight.

The idea was that it's a two d 12 system. So
a d 12 is a dodecahedron. And soit was two of those, and so it
was do dodecahedron. Oh. Sothat's where dodo came from, and
I don't remember whose idea itoriginally was.
I think, like, Rowan and I werejust throwing around words Yeah.
And I think it just came out.

No. That's coming back. I think you said that, and
then I think that's when RowanUlaq got onto it and was, well,
then I'm gonna

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

It was, like,

my beast form.

It's two do decadecahedrons, so dodo, which
is then where I went, oh, I'mgoing to be a dodo Yeah. At the
entirety of everything.

So we did that and then we laughed and that was the
end of it. And we were like,okay, well, like, it'll come up
and it'll be like a part of theshow and then it it will still
just be whatever else happensaround it. Right?

Like Right.

And so I even like in the the first couple episodes
when, you know, Cappy and Crankare doing the bit where Cappy's,
like, yeah, like, do you haveany knowledge of Dodos and that
Brain Ears? And we, like,basically decide that Dodos went
extinct, like, except for howyou went like, how you turn into
one. I never gave it a secondthought. Right. It was just, oh,
like, Pistachio read a book,turn into a dodo.

(28:40):
Mhmm. Like, that wasn't, like,us, like, planting seeds or any,
like, no fucking and then Isaacto just, like, come out of and
you were so cool about it, like,you never once hinted. Yeah. You
never once fucking alert. Yep.
And then to find out that, like,yeah, there was these, like,
helpers of the gods and thatthey were the dodoborne. I mean,

(29:00):
even right now, I'm, like, Ikinda have chills about it.
Like, it just blew my fuckingbrain

Right.

Completely. Yeah.

It you know, I really wanted the Burns
venture to happen, but, youknow, we like we like Dodoborne
better. We really push for Burnsexperience. Burns Isaac and
Friends.

Okay. Where's that needle to deflate your

head a bit? Well, yeah. It like one thing I
love doing is just making alittle note of something that
someone says offhand and thenbully bringing it back around in
full force later. I did thattwice to y'all because I did it
first with Dodoborne , and thenI did it with Apple People.

Yeah. Because

I have the thought of, like, well, I should
probably ask Joe what Scarlett'slast name is. And then I thought
and then I was like, for somereason, listening back to it. I
think I was listening to it withmy partner, and I was like, wait
a minute. Wait. We did namethem, actually.

We don't have apple for lunch, but also my dad
doesn't like the apple peoplevery much.

He doesn't like the apple people.

You don't like the apple people? You don't like
the apple people.

You can hear this and I think when I do bring
that up, when I name him, andthere is like quiet afterwards,
that is real quiet of everyonebeing like, what are you talking
about?

Yeah. No. I didn't get it at all.

No. No. Well, but like,

you do that, like, so I but also, like, Rowan and I
have talked about this. Annie, Idon't know if we've talked about
it. But also, like, when youname other things, I don't
always get the joke. Like, forexample, like the Apple people,
yeah, I didn't get that. Butalso, I made it an
embarrassingly amount longamount of time before I realized
that Nethany and Stephaniel wasStephanie and Nathaniel.

(30:37):
Oh, my god. Like like so, like,my my wife was listening to the
podcast and she was like, oh,that's so clever. Like,
Stephanie and Nathaniel. And Iwas like, what?

Stephanie and

Nathaniel. And she's like, no no no. I know.
But, like, they just switchedthe and I like, and I fucking
edited that episode. Like, Ispent hours with that episode
and just no clue.
Duh. So

But then again, your wife is also, like,
dropping hard, like, awesomeYeah. Theories. She's like

She's got hard war theories that whenever we hang
out with Isaac, she she puts himin a corner real quick. He'll,
like, stop he'll, like, he hewon't look her in the eye.
He'll,

Yeah. I just kinda have to, like, not look
because

You're like, that's

interesting. That's interesting

Like, wow. That's a cool theory. I won't comment
on that. It's good to know thatmy breadcrumbs are being picked
up, and I'm like, wait. What?

Yeah. I don't know what breadcrumbs you're
talking about. I don't know. Idon't know what the heck is
going on.

What's really great about a podcast format is
that in, like, later seasonswhen things get revealed, people
will be able to listen to thesefirst seasons and be like, wait
a minute. Hey.

I'm sure I'll do that. I'm sure I'll come
back, and I'm not gonna listen.Like, ten years, I'll be like,
wait a second. You're us up thewhole

thing. Maybe.

And that was I mean, just to be clear, mean, I
know we're, like, circling back,but that was the goal of this, I
remember. It was like we werelike, we'll do this. If people
like it cool, worst casescenario, we'll have something
that we can, like, listen backon. Exactly. That would be fun.

I still wish we had recorded the barnacle
adventures.

Me too. Yes. Like Oh.

Annie is barnacle.

Oh my god. Yes.

It was so great. The fun the fun thing
about that was, like because westarted on the Sablewood
adventure. We did that one withthe White Fire Arcanist or
whatever.

Mhmm.

And I wanted to, like, kinda keep it going
just to, try a little miniadventure, six episodes at most.
And there are some default mapsthat came with the beta that I
really hope there are more of.And one of them had a floating
island in the sky. And eversince I played Chrono Trigger at
the tender young age of wheneverI played it, I have the Kingdom
of Zeal did something to mybrain where now I love floating

(32:42):
cities in the sky. So I waslike, well, I wanna run this
adventure solely to use this mapto have a floating city in the
sky.
So we did like a little fiveepisode thing.

I like how you call it episodes now. Like, we
weren't we weren't evenrecording.

Session. Five Five thank you. Five sessions in
arc zero. True. That's what'sfun though with Daggerheart,
especially, is that I've startedwhenever I do, like, a one shot
or whenever I do a campaign, Istarted out with asking the
players questions to set thescene.

(33:15):
Like, whenever I do a one shot,which it'll it'll start they'll
walk up, and I'll be like, soand so. Like, ask describe your
character. What do they looklike? What's their name? What
are they doing right now?
And then I'll ask, what happenedlast night that has everyone on
edge? Right? Or sometimes ifthey're a newer player, I'll
ask, what's the weather like? Isit really stormy? Is it really

(33:37):
sunny?
Just to give people, like,softballs to start thinking in
terms of setting the stage andhaving the freedom to input
nouns and adjectives into theworld. And Dagger Herd pretty
much allows you to do it's builtinto the system, that
expectation, you do that, whereinstead of prepping proper
nouns, as I call it, like,instead of prepping the people
and the places and the things, Iprep questions to ask y'all to

(34:00):
help set the stage, which issuch a great way of, I think,
thinking about being at thetable in a more collaborative
setting. It's what are somequestions I can ask to get y'all
to give really evocativeinformation that y'all can take
charge of and work however youwant, but also gives me enough
information to also build offof. So it like, for instance, in

(34:21):
one of the sessions in thatbeginning one, y'all were in a
swamp that Barnacle was from,and there was a town right next
to it. And before that session,I was thinking, like, well, what
would the relationship betweenthe swamp and, like, the town
be?
Like, I should really think,like, would they not? Like, are
they trying to develop theswamp? And then I did that for,
like, two minutes and realized,oh, I know what I actually
actually do. I just ask I justask Andy to tell me what's the

(34:42):
relationship between your peopleand the town. And I can ask the
other two, like, what was thelast time you were here like?
And then it really built fromthat. So, yeah, it's some good
times. That was good times.

So in case you're gonna show up at Isaac's Gen Con
sessions, that's what he's gonnado. He's gonna ask you
questions.

He's gonna come and ask you questions, so come

with answers. Be prepared.

Be prepared. If you come to Dodos in
Paradise, which I just wanna beclear, I realized after I sent
them in that the namingconvention I did use does make
it seem like there are continualsessions there. Definitely not.
I just wanted to have them nameddifferently and be funny. Mhmm.
Yeah. And sometimes being funnygets me in trouble, I tell
y'all. Oh my god. But Rowan,have we heard your favorite

(35:23):
moment in there?

No. We hadn't. I was vamping letting you guys
keep vamping so I could havetime to think about it. But I
have two, I think, favoritemoments, and both of them are
the conflicts. So one of them iscoming up the stairs after the
pumpkin squishing head whereCrank and Pistachio have that
moment.

(35:45):
And then he was asking about a replacement, and
then, like, what if I was thereplacement and I had to be
chained down there? And hedidn't even know about the Apple
Festival.

I'm just gonna put my hand on Pistachio's
shoulder, like, kneel down on,like, the step below them. Like,
I would never let you become areplacement.

And then the second one is when Acappie and
Pistachio have theirdisagreement. And I think part
of that is because both of thoseare very heavy, tense
situations. And I don't know ifyou guys can tell, I get very
into the role play pieces of it.And I think it requires having
such trust in your other roleplay partners to take it

(36:25):
somewhere and give them thosewere real tears. I was in
character and to take that thereand have it safe and have you,
like, bump up and have it be areal moment was a truly special
and awe inspiring, like, pieceof of that delivery.
So, like, I'm thinking of thosetwo specific ones. Yeah. So

Yeah. No. I agree. Because I I think, like and I
don't know, like, Crank, you cantell me if I'm wrong, but it
seems like, you know, Crank'salways just like, I'm just gonna
go in and fuck this thing up.So, like, yeah, Crank just goes
like it squishes ahead.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. But I mean, I remember after
that when Rowan reacted likethat, I was sitting here like,
oh my god, Rowan's mad at me.Like, I was like, I I I did
something really really, like,fucked up.
I need to, like, talk toPistachio about that. And so,
like, I remember being like,alright. We're gonna walk up the
stairs. I'm gonna ask Pistachioif they're mad at me, because

(37:16):
I'm, like, kind of afraid thatsomeone's mad at me right now.

But it's like so that's like it's it was just
like I don't know. Was cool thatyou took it to that level of,
like, okay, we did a thing, but,like, what are the actual
ramifications of when a warrobot designed to do this
actually does the thing they'redesigned to do in front of Mhmm.
An innocent Yeah. Small townfarmer, basically.

Yeah. That hasn't seen anything like that.

Right.

And what are the implications of the character
going forward? Because that'sthe meat of it, right, is I've I
studied psychology in highschool. And so there was a point
in time when Rowan would havebeen a psychologist and then I
was like, nope. So the, like,deep, like, mental pieces and

(38:04):
specifically how it connects andbonds other people is the really
deep part that I like aboutplaying TTRPGs that I think
makes it stand out more than anyother game or medium that you
can really have. And the factthat we really did hit that, not
only did we go there, but wewere safe and we came back out
of it safely.

(38:24):
And then it didn't affect Annieand I are still friends. Joe and
I are still friends. We're greatonce the once the mics are off.
It was like, that was at thetable. We left it there and we
got to have a cathartic momentand then still go on and drink
beers and laugh afterwards.
And I think that's that's thethesis that I like the most.

Mhmm. Yeah. It's really and it's really
helpful as a GM to see thosemoments because there's trust
there that things at the tablecan stay at the table and then
we're that doesn't bleed in,like, outside. Because then as
me, the GM who's sort of havingto be the arbiter of those
things, it gives me a sense of,like, how y'all would react to

(39:04):
certain things. Becauseobviously in, like, a session
zero, we talk about, like, whatare some boundaries?
What are some lines and bails?What are some things we don't
wanna see? But, like, evenstill, like, sometimes even in
the session, things can change.People can feel certain ways. So
just seeing y'all go into those,like, tense moments, me just
sitting there, like, it's kindawide, just not saying anything.
And knowing y'all can go throughthat and it, like, come out the

(39:27):
other side both as charactersand people is really is really
that's why I love this table.That's why I love this crew.

Mhmm. Well, I think we do, like, you know, I
guess debrief afterwards of justlike, hey, we're good. Like, we
use a lot of safety tools heretoo. And that's, I think, part
of the way that we can make itsafe at the table.

I think most of us also have anxiety too, so that
helps out.

Yeah. I mean, like, who doesn't have anxiety
at this table?

Right. This table is possibly the foremost
anxious people I know in mylife. It's it works really well.

All of us are in therapy. Wait. Most of us are in
therapy.

Oh, get roasted, Joe.

I know. Your token straight hasn't gone to therapy.
Wow.

I'm so surprised.

Playing into the stereotype. Yeah.

And I gotta say, think my favorite moment of
the entire podcast was beingable to sit on a Miles Prower
joke for maybe the entire timeand no one pick up what it was.
The yellow fawn until Iintroduce the red fawn Knuckles.
Yeah. You're able to get up.

One of

the younger bartenders comes up. It's a fawn
with, like, red fur. Mhmm. Goesby Knuckles. And he's like, I'll
fill you up.
There you go. You like you'rethe one who likes milk. Right?
You want something different?You look kinda bummed.
And that was really great. Ican't wait for y'all to meet a
blue fawn and then usimmediately get, like, shot from
space by copyright. If I say theword Sonic or try and put on a

(40:52):
voice. You'll find a blue fawnwho's holding a chili dog, and
you'll

be like, wait a minute.

He's got red shoes.

You think that's very strange? He has one
eye, surprisingly, if you lookclose. So, like, watch watch out
for that.

He's a Cyclops mix.

Yo. Speaking of Cyclops, as in one, as in
what? Guess what, y'all? We havesome questions.

To make this connection.

Hang on. Let me try that again. Speaking of
gotta go fast, we quicklyreceived some questions from
people who've been watching theshow, who wanna hear about some
things. So so check it out.

Oh, wow. He's got a color coded spreadsheet
organization.

I can't see from far away it

is on the backside of the laptop. Oh,

wow. Yeah.

Look at that. This is crazy. Who's which
color?

I think the colors have to do with, like,
what kind of questions they are.

And so This is great podcast content.

Yeah. Yo. Listen. Chaboy is an engineer,
so I love spreadsheets. So, youknow, I didn't say it on
socials, but if at any point intime, any of you have any
questions about water resourceengineering, any one d, two d
hydrologic or hydraulicquestions, please send them our
way.
ICM or HEC RAS, let me know.Nerd. Nerd. Oh my gosh. So,

(42:19):
anyways, the first one, to givea nice easy one, a little
softball up, we had a questionfrom Tattoo on Discord asking
us, what's y'all's recordingprocess like?
Do you have a structure youfollow for each episode, or do
you all just wing it? Joy, youwanna answer that one?

I I I would say we more align with wing it.

I definitely wing it. I I never have any idea
what's going on. I just say thefirst thing that pops into my
head. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, as far as, like, recording
structure, I I mean, truthfully,I we don't even know what
Isaac's gonna do when we sitdown. Like, you know, when Isaac
does, like, a cool thing, like,start the episode with, like,
the Apple Festival and he, youknow, he's, like, taking you
through the town, we're justsitting here listening to Isaac.
We, you know, he didn't, like,tell us he was doing that
beforehand.

Yeah.

Even when we do the recaps, he just does them,
and then, yeah, we all kind ofreact. So I don't think there's
a ton of recording structure.Usually, we sit down, we record,
and then

Usually, Rowan sets up the stuff before
everybody gets there after work,and then we, like, sit around,
some of us drink something, andthen we start recording.

Yeah. But not too much.

Not too much.

That's right. Because if you drink too much,
then your mouth will pop in themic.

Your mouth will pop or, like, I noticed, like,
there was that one night wewere, like, having some fun.

We drank too many Red Oats.

It was Hot Totties, I thought.

Oh, it was Hot Totties. Was a cold night.

Was a Hot Tottie. Not only that, but, like, we had
a lot of nerves when we firststarted recording. Like, I
remember the session zero stuffwas, again, like, we never
thought it was gonna see thelight of day. We thought we
would start and our characterswould alert back to things that
happened there, but we wouldnever actually release it.

Right.

But the moment it was like, oh, this is actually
going to go out and we hitrecord, we all got kinda weird a
little bit.

It was

just like, didn't feel like there was like, I
remember we actually had to stopand go outside once and be like,
let's just reset Yeah.

Completely. When we did have a plan. Like,
we had a plan for recording.Because, like, that session zero
stuff, that was never gonna bereleased. And so we were like,
well, we have to bring some ofthat back in into episode one so
people know, like, ourbackgrounds and stuff.
So we went into it with a planof, like, we have to, like, say
our backgrounds. So honestly,we're just not that kind of a
group. We fly by the seat of ourpants here. That's what we do.

Yeah. So when we recorded that, we we cut the
whole thing. It's we we refer toit at the table as the lost
episode because there was awhole session

Yeah.

Where

It was bad, y'all.

It just didn't feel like us. It didn't feel
like how we normally play, andthat was really, at the end of
the day, like, what we weretrying to keep the most. It's
just we play how we would alwaysplay, whether there's mics or
not. Yeah. And so, yeah, I guessthat's actually Annie, that's a
great point.
The answer to the question isno, there is no structure. Yeah.
We sit down and we play like wejust would play.

Yeah. We come over on whatever nights it is.
We pal around for a coupleminutes, then we turn on our
mics and go, And that's it.Mhmm.

Four mics on two folding tables.

With a comforter on top of it.

Comforter on top. Yeah. I I do need to get you
guys a picture of, like, what itlooks like because, yeah, I it's
I mean, it's definitely

It's a cobbled together.

Yeah. I mean, we did the best we could. Because I
remember even that stage or thatsession zero, recorded and it
was like, there was just a lotof echo and like, bumps. I was
like, oh, we gotta like pad it.That's how we figured out the
comforter.
And it was on one table. It waslike, oh, we need more space
between the mics because the micbleeds. It became two tables and

Oh, and then there was Joe walking around my
house, like, snapping, trying tofigure out which room was the

best room

to fit to record in.

Did I

do that?

Yes. Because at first, we were gonna use

incredible you put up with me.

I love it so much, Joe.

You do not understand. That's so funny. You
you we were first gonna use the,like, junk room, and then we
were gonna use, like, mylibrary, and then now we're in

I just can't imagine not sitting here.

I know. Right? It's so cozy. This is my living
room. Yeah.
And now now this is where we'reat.

Next question we have is from Squid in Space
on Blue Sky, who asks, what wereyour inspirations for each of
your characters? Was it any ofthe character options you saw or
specific media that gave you funideas? Ideas?

I'm not taking that first.

You're not taking it first.

Annie. Okay. Sure. So before we started this,
I played a little bit of Eberronwith a friend of mine, and I had
a character that I really wasinto who was like an artipacer
Warforged. And I really likedexploring what, like, his whole
deal was, and that wholecampaign fizzled out.
And I was very sad about it.Mhmm. So coming into, like,

(46:50):
Daggerheart and thinking about acharacter that I wanted to play,
you know, I was looking at theancestries and the communities
that are included withDaggerheart. And, like,
obviously, like, Clank reallyspoke to me because I was really
enjoying playing my Warforged.And I was like, what is, like
what makes the most sense forClank to be?
And that's a guardian. Mhmm.But, like, what if I turn that

(47:10):
all on its head and made himwanna be something that he just
wasn't built for? And that's awizard.

Oh.

So I went with, like that was my, like, first
idea. I was like, I wanna play,like, a war robot that wants to
become a wizard. And then Ikinda built my backstory around
that.

Which is such a good

It's actually interesting you bring that up
because, not to interrupteveryone else's story, but Smash
My Foot on Blue Sky actually hada question specifically for you,
Annie. I think it's a this isthe question. I think it's a
bold choice to play a characterwho wants to be a wizard while
choosing a character classwithout the capacity to actually
cast any spells. Going into thecampaign, did you expect Crank
to ever be able to learn magic,or was it more so a pie in the

(47:51):
sky hope that you never expectto be fulfilled?

I think I expect it to be fulfilled in
some capacity. Because, like,that's something that I really
want for Crank. And, like, Itrust Isaac to, like, lead me to
that however he may see fit. Ido think it is going to happen.
It's just a matter of how andwhen.
Mhmm. So I never really thoughtif it was a a pie in the sky, I
never thought it was impossible.

When the turnip whispers back to you, that's
also one of my favorite

Oh, yeah. That's that's up there.

And it's still horny. Yeah.

It's still horny.

If I think that they're both asleep, I'm gonna
pull out that rotten turret thatI have. Uh-huh. And I'm gonna,
like, hold it up to my earantenna thing. I'm gonna be
like, hello.

Can you hear me? Are you there? You swear you
hear the faintest. Yo, you cantry listen. I will I can't wait
to find out what happened.
Yeah. I can't wait.

That turnip is still in you.

Let's not. I need to throw that turnip away.
Oh my god. I got the heebiejeebies from that turnip.

I also think it was great opportunity when
you had the idea of he's a robotwho wants to learn learn magic.
Something that you get to do asa GM is when your player
character really wantssomething, it's not obviously to
sort of bait and switch that,but it is to give them an option
that could be dangerous ordeleterious to that character.

(49:27):
So for instance, the staff Mhmm.That Crank currently has. Right?
Yeah.

That's my red button.

It's your red button.

A big red button to do magic.

You didn't push. I swore you were gonna push into

the finale. Glad you didn't. That's the only
thing that saved our house.

I mean, yeah, but I swore you're like, I

Joe wanted it so bad.

I did.

Joe wanted it.

So did Isaac, apparently.

So did Isaac. I gave him three oh

my god. Two devils over here.

I look. I succeeded on all my all my
checks.

Succeeded all three. Because they because
yeah. Not to say what I thoughtwas gonna happen in the finale,
but I will say that in and Iwant this is why I won't release
the environment that I built forit because there could still be
some spoilers in there foranything that happens the next
season. But Oh. There was was anadditional countdown that was

(50:17):
going on behind the scenesUh-oh.
That would have immediatelyended if the staff had been
used. Joe, same question to you.What was the inspiration for
Cappy?

So as as Rowan has pointed out, I'm the only one
not actively in therapy.

Throw in this diamond.

I know. Don't

think it's that funny. Joe's on therapy. And I
know that there's a I I do Ifeel like I approach it in a
healthy way. I know that this iskind of a debate.

Oh, okay.

But there are certain parts of a TTRPG with a
safe crew Right. Like I havehere that I will infuse some of
my own therapy in. I actuallydon't think I've ever told you
guys this. But, like, at thetime, Cappy is or, you know,
when Cappy started, he was a guyat the Adventures Guild that's
been in one spot too long andhe, you know, kind of just

(51:23):
understood the motion, he knewwhat to do, and he was kinda,
like, over it, you know, and itwas kind of showing, I think, in
his work and how he approachedhis recruits and, you know, how
he treated every situation. AndI was kind of feeling aligned
like that with my job.
Mhmm. You know? So, I mean, Istill liked my job, but I've

(51:43):
since moved from that job intoanother job, but I definitely At
the time, I didn't see that pathforward, and I definitely knew
that it was time to dosomething, and I just wasn't
sure what that was. So, the ideaof a guy that is a little bit
stuck, he feels, and kind oflashes out in the various ways
that Cappy tends to was really,really resonated with me. So

(52:07):
that I think that was a bigpiece of Cappy.

It's actually interesting you bring that up
because there is a question thatwas sent specifically for you,
Joe, regarding Cappy. Also bySmash My Foot on I

don't Smash My Foot.

Blue Sky. I love Cappy's portrayal as
flawed, insecure as a flawed,insecure character. What advice
would you have for adding depthto PCs and PCs like you did?

That's a good question. I So I don't know. I
think the first thing to callout though is I have just always
aligned more when I watch thingsto that type of character. I
like really like a flawedcharacter that sometimes rides
the line. It's like, you a goodor bad person?
I always want them to end upbeing a good person.

Yeah.

But that's what I tend to lean towards or that's
what grabs me the most. So, Idon't know. I think my advice
would be go with what grabs youthe most, but you always have to
ask the question, like, there'salways the surface, what do I
want? But really, what's thatsecond or third layer with
what's what you're actuallysaying from wanting that.

Nice. Yeah. Flawed characters are fun to
play. As long as it doesn'tbother everyone else at the
table. Right.
But, yeah. I think you do a goodjob of it. Think you do a good
job of

telling He gets close. He gets No.

I'm I'm telling y'all.

I try so hard to bother Rowan.

I'm telling you. I'm a Cappy apologist. And I
know a lot of people are

Cappy's a bad guy sometimes.

Yeah. I know. But I

think apologize for No.

I think he's got a good heart. I don't know.

We'll see.

I I just love a little broken man.

I mean, he's

he's average.

He's a

little broken man.

Little little.

It's average.

Okay. Average broken man.

Rowan can fix him. See, and I I prey on
Kathy's downfall. Like, everyevery bad decision I think Kathy
made, everything with Stephanie,I just had the biggest smile on
my face.

That was the worst decisions ever.

True. Feel like you, like, checked in with
yourself and was like, what wasthe worst thing I could do here?
Oh, I know.

No. I did. I'm sorry. I had to I laughed so
hard listening back to Cappy inthe middle of a battle being
like, I think we should breakup.

Nephi, are you okay?

You hear fuck.

Ow. Was that.

And for the soul and for the enemies. Yeah.

Would you say really quick. Would being
angrier help you fight? What areyou talking I just I'm gonna
help you, but I just I thinkthat maybe we should break up.
That was like I remember I I wasso proud of that decision in the
moment. And then Isaac flippedit and made her brokenhearted.

(54:54):
And, like, I felt my stomach,like, sink. Like, my heart sank
to my stomach.

This man

got his anxiety. He was

like, oh, no.

Because I was like, that's such a funny
choice. And then I immediatelyfelt terrible about it, which
might be the most Joe codedthing ever.

See, I definitely did turn on you
because you rolled high on yourpresence check. Because there
when I asked for that role, thethe the downside, the fail say
state of that was she turns onyou and attacks you Oh. Which
definitely would have beenfunny.

That would have been funny.

It would have been funny, but I was like, you
rolled really well. So it'slike, the best thing I think
that can happen here is thatNefany just gets away from
Cappy. Mhmm. And so that'sthat's what happened. So I
really I really leaned in.
I even cut out

a little

bit of how much I leaned into, like, she's
heartbroken.

She's sad. Did you?

I cut out a little bit on because it was I
don't

think I could've taken much more of it. I must
have really felt bad in theseat. I, well, I thought I could
help make her mad and she wasgonna, like, just go nuts and
kill all the bad guys and then,like, maybe be, by the way,
Cappy, fuck you and then leave.I like, that was what I was
hoping for. It was, like, shewas gonna, like, really just
take out the baddies for me.
Yeah. Although, she is a baddie.I didn't think she was that big
big of a baddie until Emma drewher, which if you haven't seen

(56:07):
the doodle online Oh,

my God. Emma.

Shout out Emma.

Shout out Emma.

And Bethany Wolfe.

Yeah. I think you've pretty much said that
about, like, Every every woman.Every NPC that's been drawn so
far.

Okay. Joe. Scarlet Joe, fuck, marry, kill.
Scarlet Wait. Pistachio's mom,Nefany.

Oh. Wait. Fuck, marry, kill. Scarlet,
Pistachio's mom, Nefany? Yeah.
I'm marrying Scarlet.

Uh-huh. Beautiful.

Yep. Uh-oh. I'm probably killing Nefany.

I'm here.

Mhmm. God damn it. Definitely fucking Nefany.

Yeah. And Cap you heck. Cashew would watch.

Oh my god. Truly. Wow.

Truly, Rowan's big swings with
Pistachio's family never ceasedto surprise me. That was a fun
scene, though. Like, it's thethe ability how quickly I can
fall into just flirting with myplayers is really high. And so
it's funny because we playedactually I think me and Joe
played D and D. Well, I DMed agame of D and D with a couple

(57:10):
friends.

Oh, this was recent, though.

This was recent. Like, this was like,

what? Two months ago, maybe?

Couple months ago. And I just distinctly
remember, at some point, therewas a character, and we fell
immediately into just, like,flirting with each other.

Yeah. Like we did for most of season one.

Right. It's because Joe is so comfortable in
his sexuality. Right?

And then just, like, the other people at

the table were, like, what is No. One of our
friends, like so, like, all ofour, like, partners came
afterwards to like, we were at abrewery Yeah. Which makes it
extra funny because we're, like,in a public setting. And so,
like, our partners came to thebrewery after and our one friend
was just, like, telling hiswife. He's, Joe and, you know,
Isaac were just, you know, like,da da da da da da.
And I it occurred to me, was,like, oh, like, this isn't
normal for them.

Just That also that also had I remember
that game, I think, had thepinnacle of my possible jokes
about riddles, which maybe I'lluse on the podcast one day, so I
won't say what it is. But Igotta say, I think that was my
favorite iteration of the joke.Cool. Speaking of riddles,
Rowan, a question for you. Whatwas the what was Pistachio's

(58:12):
inspiration?

Good question. So I had I when I create a
character, I have, like, threethings that I do for them. One
is, like, their inspiration ofhow they play themselves, and
then number two is, like, howthey interact with others. And
then number three is their art.Because I'm the artist for the
show, so I always think about,you know, what they're gonna
look like.
So the first thing, we'll startwith the easy one, is I was

(58:36):
looking at all of the dire heartthings, and I was like, you know
what would be really funny? Ifyou had a druid that was
allergic to the outside.

And

so and so I was like, that'd be really, really
great. And somehow, I I startedwith, like, seasonal seasonal
allergies and then decided to goimmediately into it would be
really funny if it was, like,specifically nut allergies, and
then it would be really funny ifI named that person who is
allergic to nuts pistachio, andthen gave them an entire family

(59:07):
named after nuts and also putthem on a farm. So that just
like I started just going bydown the funniest thing I could
think of at that riot time. Asfar as, like, personality and
with each other, I work with alot of interns and I just wanted
that that person that was just,like, too try hard, like, just

(59:28):
too try hard, like, job, wantsto make a good impression, just,
like, a little too earnestbecause just like Joe, I was
bringing in my real life intothis and was like, they don't
know how funny they are. Assomebody who has been working
and kind of disillusioned alittle bit now and, like,

(59:51):
experiencing the horrors ofbeing in capitalism for a long
time.
And then as far as drawing, thenit was like, I wanted a little
fawn. I wanted a little redhaired fawn. And then somehow, I
popped into my brain likeChuckie Finster from Rugrats.

Joe Diametti (01:00:06):
Our are in our thirties.

Rowan Collins (01:00:07):
We are in our thirties, in case you didn't
know. So a little bit of ChuckieFister got in there. I think
that's the big one that came in.And then I was just like, it'd
be really really cute to putthem in sweaters. So I I started
doodling them out and then Ihave all three actually of their
art pages in coloring pencilbecause that's what I the medium

(01:00:30):
I was working in

Annie Hawthorne (01:00:31):
at the time. And I

have Pistachio, Cappy, and Crank's original art
pieces too, which I guess

That'd be cool.

That would be cool.

I haven't seen them since we did that. Yeah.

Yeah. Dig them up there. It's been a while.

Isaac Allen Burns (01:00:45):
Yo. And Rowan, a specific question for
you. You kinda answered theother question in here about the
voice. So I'll ask the otherRowan specific question from
Smash My Foot on Blue Sky. Sure.
What advice would you have forthose who are not non binary for
portraying non binary charactersin TTRPGs?

Well, that's a good question, I guess. Because
when I came or when I startedPistachio was around the time
that I came out as non binary.So I have literally played men.
I've played women. I've playedevery gender around.
And I think the TTRPG space is aspace that you simply can play
around with gender a little bit.And for the most part, I think

(01:01:25):
the the conceit of it is thateverybody's a person. So it's
just like treat it like acharacteristic that you would,
you you don't I don't play upthe fact that they have red hair
very much or that they're curlythey have curly hair very much.
Like, it's a piece of a bigpicture. So, like, as long as
you're not making it the onlything about them, then I think

(01:01:48):
it's that's the way you playthat well.

Nice. Yeah. Very good. And then for you,
Isaac, there's actually aquestion for you, the g w. Oh,
thank you, Isaac.
Yeah. What's the question? Sothis one comes from Carl on Blue
Sky. And what was your processfor building the Bracken Road
arc? Do you have everythingplanned or do you plan based on
what the characters are doing?
And I love this question, so I'mgonna answer it, which is I

(01:02:14):
whenever I am building anythingfor a set amount of time, I
spend a lot of time at the verybeginning on trying to figure
out how it will start and buildthe foundation for myself and
the players, and I have a solidsense of where it will end.
Right? So I basically know whereI'm starting, and I know what
direction I'm going towards. Butthen everything else, I take one

(01:02:35):
session at a time. I keep it sothat way I'm not too not heavy
handed necessarily or evenrailroady.
I hate the term railroad, butthat way I don't put an
expectation on myself and theplayers that would sort of
pigeonhole y'all into anything.So literally, like a lot of
times, I'll have an idea for thenext session or two and that's

(01:02:57):
as far as it goes. But because Iknow what the ending is gonna
look like so from the beginning,I knew we're gonna start in
Bracken Road, sleepy little townwith apples, and I knew
something was gonna happen whereit's gonna get wiped off the
map. Right? Those are those twothings.
From the start, there were a lotof ways they could have blown
up. Part of me thought that thatrelic would be a thing that
blows it up. It could have justbeen something the players did

(01:03:18):
specifically. But based ony'all's decisions and based on
things that came up becausethere were a couple places
things could have gone that justit didn't go that way. So it was
really based on, like, whaty'all did, the way y'all reacted
to things that dictated how wegot to that ending.
And so but the very beginning,like, I had a sense of who y'all
knew. I kinda talked to y'all alittle beforehand. Like, who's

(01:03:39):
an NPC in town that you careabout? That, I think, was my one
question for y'all. And thenwhen we started, I kinda asked,
like, what's a detail aboutBrackenroll that you wanna put
in here?
Which I think my favorite wasstill the break row library
break row library. But yeah. Butyeah. The everything that
happened after the, like,episode four, because that was

(01:04:01):
technically our, quote, unquote,first episode. Mhmm.
Up until the finale, it was Iwas building towards something
happening. What it was, I wasn'ta % sure until right before the
festival. But because I had anidea of where it was going,
anything I seeded wouldeventually fit. So and that's
how I recommend people do it.When I was, like, starting out,

(01:04:23):
I would plan way in the future.
Like, I would have probably Iwould I would tell myself I need
to know what's gonna happen 10sessions ahead. Like, I had a 10
session plan at all times. Andthat's the work can be
fulfilling, but the amount ofwork I have had to do nothing
with, spending a full workday onmy weekends at a coffee at a
coffee bar just doing doingwriting, it you learn to sort of

(01:04:46):
prioritize. So and that's how Irecommend most GMs do it, is
have a strong foundation, knowwhat direction you're going, but
stay loose, like, one sessionahead as you go.

Will say, like, I didn't I don't think going in I
guess, going way back startingto, like, what our expectations
were, I didn't think we wouldspend the whole season in
Bracken Road.

Mhmm.

Really? Yeah. But I I mean, I'm glad we did. Like,
I really like the pacing of itand that we got to spend as much
time with the characters and,like, you know, The Librarian
and, you know, The PistachioGroup family and, you know,
Cyrus and all of those that wedid. But, yeah, I will say that
definitely surprised me.
I thought, like, a coupleepisodes in was gonna be the
Apple Festival, and thenwhatever happened after that was

(01:05:26):
gonna kinda take us to the nextthing, so

Yeah. Yeah. That's actually interesting.
Because another question we didreceive, I think this will be
the last question we do, is fromEmma on Discord that asks, were
there any theories that you hadthat either got proven true or
didn't happen? And what werethose?

One, two, three, not it. I

guess I'll just go first every time.

Nice. Way to be there, Annie.

Take charge. You

have the highest initiative.

What can I say? Do. You know? I'm the I'm the
biggest target over here. Again,when we sit down to play, all of
my higher thought processesstop.
Like, I don't know. Like, Iliterally forget everything that
happened in a session until Ilisten to it back when it
releases.

That's incredible.

And then

I'm like, oh, yeah. That happened. Mhmm. So I
don't know if I have anytheories. Like, I I did not have
the capacity to develop those.
If I listened back to theepisodes again, maybe I would
have some time and some, like,processing power to put towards
that.

But Yeah.

I am just flying by the seat of my pants
over here.

Blank slate crank. I love it. Blank

slate crank. I I definitely was starting to get
the really terrible feeling thatCyrus was the bad guy.

Oh, no. Really? Yeah.

And that the cane limp was bullshit. That's like,
I didn't at first at all, andthen there's that scene where
Cappy's stealing the Halbert andhe's, like, on the phone and I
was, like, oh, shit. And then,like, oh, wait. And then, like,
Crank is working with the magic,I think, out in that field and
he does the scan and there'ssomething about red fur or
something on the tree. Yeah.

(01:07:05):
And I was like, shit. And then,when we defused the bomb,
there's that guy and he's likelike, it's like a blink and you
miss it. It's red flash or He'slike, red flash still got it or
something. I mean, like, he saysthey says that he he has, like,
the big dents in him. Yep.
And I was like, oh, like, Cyruswent, like, full Donkey Kong.
Just like boom boom boom on,like which I still think,

(01:07:26):
obviously, did happen, but itwould turned out to be his, you
know, nephew or whoever. So thatwas good. I'm glad, at least for
now, that Cyrus is still not abad guy. Don't do that.
But that I think that was mytheory that, thankfully, was
disproven. Nice.

My theory was also about Cyrus. Mostly that
when we did the Chomsky and theydid mention that their commander
was like a red simia. Right? AndI was like, that that guy is
related to Cyrus. To Cyrus.
I don't know how. I don't knowwhy. But that guy is related to

(01:08:06):
Scarlet or not Scarlet, Cyrus.And yeah. And now, every red
Simia, I'm like, who's that?

Anything red or scarlet.

Anything red or scarlet has to do with Cappy.
And everything scarlet or redSimia, I'm like

Cyrus.

Cyrus.

Yeah. Cyrus.

Cyrus. Nice. There may or may not exist a
voice mail on 6 well, where I'mlike, that fucking Simia is
related to Cyrus, isn't he? Youlittle fuck.

I love it when I get a DM from one of
y'all that's just like, whatabout this? Because I do the
same thing every time. I justsend the eyeballs emoji. My
favorite emoji. Single time.
Every single time.

I do have kinda wait. Is this a quick thing
where I can rattle off thingsthat I still need to know about?
Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
What the fuck happened toSebastian?

Yeah. Where's Sebastian? Oh, yeah.

That fuck.

That shape shifting fuck. He fucking jumped
out a window. Well, so and theother thing is we don't know
that we haven't fucking

Yeah. Maybe we have seen.

Came into contact with him. Yeah. It's a
ceasefire. Running fucking myrunning should I say it? My
running theory is that he's thesenator.
Oh.

Oh, shit.

That's Because, like, remember like, she, like,
goes to, like obviously, like,she had something bigger to do
with it, she, like, her excusefor, like, everyone allures to
her being a drunk Mhmm. And she,like, goes because she, like,
drank too much and has aheadache. But, like, we also
know what faking it or not,Sebastian had a bit of a thing
for drinking, like, even in theprologue when he's, you know,
hey, where do I get a drink inthis town or

Isaac smiles

When he's like like wine.

So I don't know. That's that's still eating at me
pretty hard. Very interesting.Yeah.

I really gotta sit down and listen to all these
episodes back to back to backfor season two. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Should we announce season two?

Yeah. You wanna announce season two?

Is that how we end it? Are you done? Do have
anything

else you

wanna say?

Do you have any other theories that you didn't
get to

I do, but now I can't. Like, I feel like I have
them and that's when I'll, like,DM Isaac and I'll be like, hey,
by the way, what about this? Andthen he'll give me the fucking
eyes

and Just eyes?

Just eyes. So I don't know. Do you have
theories?

Oh, no. I just wanna know what's in the book.

Oh, the book.

Oh, that's right. Keep fucking forgetting
about the Roseanne

Roseanne gave you a book.

I need to write that down and put it somewhere I
can see it every session. Yeah.So that I remember. Because
again, I forget everything. Atthe end of a session, my mind
goes blank.

In your defense, though. In your
defense, it makes a lot of sensethat Crank wouldn't pick up the
book because you got the staff,the easy way to magic the staff.

Oh, the other oh, Elana. Like, what's going on
with Elana? Yeah. Because we hadAdrian who was with the elf girl
when you were activated, Anna.

That was weird.

I know. And then he's with who now? What's his
name? Timothy? Timothy.
Yeah. He's with Timothy.Timothy. Who's Alanna? Does
Alanna have powers?
Like, I don't I have so manyhopes for Alanna and I don't
know why. But, like, I

Giving Alanna the wizard hat was an incredible
move. Yeah. You know what Imean? Because there's because
sometimes people will interactwith NPCs in a way that signals
to you, the GM, like, you shoulddo something with this
character. Right?
Mhmm. Because I think if, like,Alana was there and y'all were
just like, okay. Whatever. Idon't it. Whatever.
And y'all, like, didn't talk toAlana. Alana would just, like,

(01:11:23):
go walk into the ocean. You knowwhat I mean? Like, she she
disappears. Who cares?
Like, that's and that'simportant as a GM. No matter how
cool your NPCs are, always bewilling to eat them into the sun
if the players don't vibe withthem. But giving Alana the
wizard hat, I

also I feel like Crank really vibed with
Alana. You know? Alana was like,why don't you eat? And I was
like, like, it was that whole,like, back and forth because,
like, again, like, I am not aparent. I'm never going to be a
parent.
But, like, I know that kids justask questions and ask questions
and ask questions. And I knowthat Crank would be a good sport
about it and would just answerthe questions, like, as, like,

(01:11:58):
frankly as possible, because Idon't think he would really
understand what was happening.But I think he'd be just like,
oh, this person's trying to talkto me. I should talk back. I
should answer their questions.
So, yeah, that was a really funmoment for me too.

Yeah. Yes. I also wanna know why Crank doesn't
have any memories for the lastten years.

Oh, That one. That one. Yeah. Like, what
happened to Crank?

Yeah. Crank, like, was in battle and then it's ten
years later.

He's just he was offline. What? Okay. What
happened in those ten years?

How did he come back online?

Yeah. How did he come back online?

I don't know.

That's a

part my backstory I'm not aware of.

Yeah. Isaac.

Isaac's faces.

How did he come back online?

Isaac is literally the eyes emoji right
now.

Yeah. Isaac somehow turned himself into two
aisles and going back and forth.Yeah. That's mostly my
questions. It's all about Crank.

Well, I also wanna know, like, for I wanna know for
well, there's things aboutCappy. Do guys know how do you
have any questions about Cappy?It's okay if you don't. But
Cappy's got stuff.

Well, I okay. So I do wanna know how Cappy got
the, like, jacket and thesignificance behind the jacket.
My personal theory about that isthat it was Cappy's previous
adventures, like, perhaps thefirst one, like, perhaps the so
I see a lot of, like, tiesbetween Cappy and Pistachio.
Like, maybe Pistachio is whereCappy would have been, like, at

(01:13:13):
the very beginning as everybodyis, and at the start of their
careers, if you will, and thatsomething happened, and Cappy
was given the jacket and is now,like, holds on to that kind of
thing. I wanna know about it.
I wanna know all about it.

I'm not gonna tell you what it is. But can I tell
you

Yeah?

That's not it.

Okay. That's not it. I think my question the
big question I have about Cappyis why a Halbert? Like, where
did the Halbert come from? Like,because when I picture Cappy, I
don't picture Cappy with a giantfucking weapon.

I don't think I pictured Cappy

with a

giant So, like, was that, like, an Isaac choice?
Or was that something y'allcollaborated on of, like,
thinking of the type

of weapon?

Tell by the episode that I had to keep
looking at my notes to evenremember the name, Halbert. I I
assure you that was not me.Okay. And also, something that
was cut out of those episodeswas me rolling bad to examine
the Halbert. Yeah.
And failing every time to getany information about, like,
what it does.

Well, that's Cyrus's halberd. Right? And it
has a mark on it that I think isimportant.

I don't know if that ever made it to the
episodes.

Yeah. That's something we'll find out in
season two. Yeah. And if youwanna know the answer to all
these really great questions, Iguess you're gonna have to tune
into season two, which

Which Josh asked, by the way. This technically
counts as a question becauseJosh asked, how long do we have
to wait for more? Yeah. And whenis season two?

Season two, we're planning on starting
episode one of season two firstTuesday of July.

Releases. When it releases.

When it releases. When it releases. So
now, because if it wasn'tobvious, we did all of season
one with the beta rule set Mhmm.Which will make in two years
when I listen back to this, andI'm saying the words like action
tracker and armor score. It'llbe really weird.
The probe. No.

We're we're gonna keep we're keeping the
software. How

dare you? How dare

you? But season two, we've sort of been
waiting for the full releasewhen we all get our crispy
crispy books with the nice thenice art. Let me tell you.

In transit?

You're still in transit?

Mine's still in transit.

Well, when it gets here, we're gonna be
cracking open those books, andwe're gonna be all up in there.
But yeah. So July is when thefirst episode of season two we
probably won't do weeklyepisodes starting July.

No. Because Isaac and Joe need

Because Joe lives. Joe couldn't handle it.

Yeah. Right. Joe

couldn't deal with it.

Rowan can't handle pumping out an animation
every week. Let me tell you.

That's right. That's right. The and yeah. My
partner Harper has asked that Inot do weekly releases again
either. So, know, but if thewhen yeah.
So but tune in for that. Andthis was a lot of fun. I hope
that we do this again sometime.Yeah. Yeah.
If the people if you reallyliked this content, let us know
in the in the in the socials.Hashtag dotoborn. Give us more

(01:16:11):
talkbacks, Isaac, please.

Say it, please. Daddy Isaac.

Well, maybe don't maybe don't do that. Maybe
don't do that. We don't we don'tknow each other that way.

Okay. Please, Isaac, sir, please.

Okay. Well Maybe we just cut. Maybe. Well,
anyway, well, hey, it's apodcast.

Hey, it's a podcast. Squawk.

Squawk. Squawk. Hey. It's a podcast.

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