🎧 Podcast Episode Description (for Spotify, Apple, YouTube, and RSS)
In this episode, we debunk the myths and misinformation surrounding the use of food in dog training — including the age-old claim that “dogs trained with treats only work when food is visible.”
Will Bangura, M.S., CAB-ICB, CBCC-KA, CPDT-KA, FFCP, internationally certified canine behaviorist and host of Dog Training Today, guides you through the science and structure of reward-based training, revealing how to use food correctly—not as a bribe, but as a powerful reinforcer.
We explore:
- Why food is the most effective and ethical training tool
- How to avoid dependency and fade treats strategically
- The science behind marker timing, operant and classical conditioning
- Mistakes pet parents make with treat delivery
- How to build lasting behaviors that don’t rely on food presence
FREE
🎁 Want to dive deeper? Download Will’s FREE 35-page guide:
👉 https://phoenixdogtraining.com/how-to-train-dogs-with-food-correctly/
This in-depth resource walks you step-by-step through how to train with food using evidence-based, humane techniques that actually work. Perfect for pet parents and training professionals alike.
📌 Whether you're struggling with food-focused dogs or skeptical about reinforcement-based training, this episode lays the foundation for real behavior change without force, fear, or gimmicks. If you need dog aggression training in phoenix az. contact me
If you need professional help please visit my Dog Behaviorist website.
Go here for Free Dog Training Articles
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
do you use food in training?
Are you rewarding your dog withfood?
Quite frankly, 99% of evenprofessional dog trainers use
food the wrong way, and youcould be doing it much more
efficiently.
And what does that mean?
It means that you're going toget your dog trained a lot
(00:22):
faster.
All that and more, in 60seconds.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Raised by wolves with canine DNA in his blood.
Having trained more than 24,000pets, helping you and your fur
babies thrive, live in studiowith Will Bangura answering your
pet behavior and trainingquestions.
Ladies and gentlemen, pleasewelcome your host and favorite
pet behavior expert, willBangura.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Would you like to go on?
Are y'all ready for this?
Good day dog lovers.
Hey, I'm Will Bangura.
Thanks for joining me foranother episode of Dog Training
Today.
I'm your certified caninebehaviorist and overall dog
(01:20):
behavior expert.
Do me a favor.
You know it always amazes mebecause we've got so many people
that listen to the podcast.
But you know, half of the folksthat listen are not subscribed
and you guys are missing a lot.
Do yourself a favor.
Do me a favor.
Hit that subscribe button soyou never miss an episode.
(01:41):
Also, if you love what we do,hit that like button.
Give us a five-star review.
That's how our rankings go up.
More people can hear about dogtraining today.
I wanted to take a quick second,like I said in the opener,
about the use of food in dogtraining.
You know I watch professionaldog trainers use food and
(02:03):
obviously I watch pet parentsuse food and most are using food
the wrong way.
So I want to talk about theright way Now.
First of all, if you're usingfood to train your dog, you must
have a treat pouch.
It is mandatory.
(02:24):
You must have a treat pouch.
It is mandatory.
The worst thing that you can dois be training your dog and
having food in your hand.
Dogs are going to respond moreto visual cues than auditory
cues.
If you're giving the commandlike this, with food in your
hand, they think that they haveto see this, they think that
(02:47):
this is a visual cure commandand they think that food's got
to be there.
That's part of the command too.
This is a bribe.
Training with food is not aboutbribing.
It's about rewarding the dog.
Think about food as a paycheckand the dog is doing work and
(03:08):
the dog's going to get itspaycheck after it does the work
and that treat pouch.
That's a wallet or a pursewhere the currency is the money,
the pay for the work for thedog, and in this case it's
extremely high value foodrewards.
(03:28):
They should be tiny, about thesize of a pea, but highly I mean
highly palatable.
Don't use garbage.
Find out what your dog loves.
Is it little cut up pieces ofhot dog?
Little cut up pieces of cheese?
Little cut up pieces of chickenor beef?
That's what you want to useabout the size of a pea.
(03:51):
Now, if you're using food, youhave got really any reinforcer.
You've got between about a halfa second and two seconds
maximum to get that food in thedog's mouth for them to connect
the dots.
Hey, I'm getting that foodbecause I sat.
(04:12):
You know, if you ask for a sitand the food doesn't get in the
dog's mouth for four secondslater, it's very likely the dog
is not connecting the dots.
It has no clue.
Hey, the reason I got this foodis because I sat.
Now the dog will like the food.
Maybe that 20 minute trainingsession that you're in with the
(04:36):
dog is more pleasant becausethere's food there.
It's kind of like, you know, ifyou're invited to a party.
Have you ever been invited to aparty and there was like no
food?
But then you're invited toanother party and they got this
incredible spread.
Hey, you're going to enjoy theparty that's got all the food.
So you're going to enjoy thetraining where there's food
(05:00):
involved.
But for the food to be areinforcer, it's a timing issue.
Now, if we don't want the foodto be a bribe and we've got to
have it in a treat pouch andthat's critical.
By the time the dog does thebehavior, then we reach in that
treat pouch, pull the treat out,give it to the dog.
(05:25):
We've lost that window.
That might be longer than twoseconds.
Remember the rule You've gotabout a half a second to two
seconds to get the food in thedog's mouth, or they're not
going to connect the dots.
You're working hard but you'renot working smart.
You're working hard but you'renot working smart.
(05:51):
Now the next thing if you wantto work with food correctly, you
have to be using a markersystem.
What does that mean?
That means that you areclassically conditioning a
signal to the food reward.
Some of you have heard about aclicker.
Some of you have understoodmarker training as maybe using
(06:11):
the word yes.
Now, the clicker is a sound.
Yes is a sound.
Neither one of those have anyvalue to a dog until you
condition either the click orthe word yes Doesn't have to be
the word yes.
It could be nice, but you'vegot to take something that's a
(06:34):
neutral stimulus.
It has no value and you need tocondition and pair value to
that neutral stimulus.
And let me explain how thisworks.
The clicker has no value.
But let's say I've got 30 smallpieces of high value food
(06:55):
rewards and on day one I goclick.
Immediately I give a treat.
I go click.
I immediately give anothertreat again I go click.
I give a treat.
I go click.
I immediately give anothertreat Again, I go click, I give
another treat and I keeprepeating this process Click
treat, click treat.
That's the clicker, is themarker.
(07:16):
I'm conditioning that clickmeans treat and my timing's got
to be good here.
Click treat, click.
Give the treat, get that treatin the dog's mouth immediately
after the click.
You're going to do that forabout 30 times in a row.
You're going to do that forabout three days in a row.
(07:39):
On day four, when your dog'sjust hanging out near you,
you're going to test it.
You're going to click yourclicker.
Hey, does your dog come runningover to you, excited, looking
for food?
Because if it does, you knowthat the dog understands click
means treat.
Now that clicker has value.
(08:00):
It used to be a neutralstimulus.
Now it's a conditioned stimulus.
It's been conditioned that itmeans food's coming.
It is that sound.
That click is a bridge betweenthe click and the food.
It's a signal that we conditionso that when a dog does a
(08:25):
behavior, what we can do, alwaysvery quickly, is click that
clicker.
The instant the dog's butt hitsthe ground on, sit, click.
That signals the dog.
There's a light bulb that goesoff in the dog's brain that says
hey, I know that sound.
That means I'm getting a foodreward.
(08:48):
So even if it takes you fiveseconds to reach in that treat
pouch and get the food to thedog, you've not lost any timing
as long as your marker thatyou're using has good timing.
Now let's say that you conditionthe food to the word yes or
(09:11):
nice.
I like using nice.
Same thing 30 pieces ofhigh-value food rewards.
Very small, the size of a pea,I've got to go.
Nice, give the treat.
Nice, give another treat.
Nice, give another one, you getthe another treat.
Nice, give another one, you getthe idea.
30 times in a row, three daysin a row, day four, I'm going to
(09:31):
test it Arbitrarily.
I throw out the word nice.
Does my dog come running to melooking for food?
If it does, missionaccomplished.
Now I've created a marker intraining and now it has value.
Now I can use it.
But here's an important stepNever click that clicker, except
(09:57):
for marking a desired behavior.
But the behavior has to happenfirst.
Then you click the clicker,then you reach in your treat
pouch, then you give the foodreward.
Do not reach in that treatpouch until after the behavior
has happened.
Do not have food in your handuntil after the behavior has
(10:23):
happened.
Hand until after the behaviorhas happened.
Don't be reaching for thattreat pouch until after the
behavior has happened.
These are the biggest mistakesthat trainers and pet parents
are making.
They got food in their hand.
When they're asking for thebehavior, they have their hand
in the treat pouch.
When they're asking for thebehavior, they're having their
(10:45):
hand in the treat pouch.
When they're asking for thebehavior, they're having their
hand in the treat pouch, askingfor the behavior and pulling the
food out.
They're reaching for the treatpouch, asking for the behavior.
No, that's all wrong.
Forget about the food, forgetabout the treat pouch.
Get your dog doing the behavioryou want.
(11:07):
Maybe you're working on thebehavior of down, lying down,
and so you ask for down and yourdog does it.
You get that behavior.
The only thing you need toworry about is as soon as your
(11:29):
dog engages in that behavior.
If it's down, as soon as thebelly hits the ground, you need
to click or say nice, whateverthat conditioned marker is.
And when you do that, here'sthe sequence Dog lays down,
click, light bulb goes on in thedog's brain.
I'm getting a food reward.
You reach in your treat pouch,you pull out the food and you
(11:51):
give it to the dog.
There is the clearest ofcommunication there and when
communication is clear, the dogis going to learn 12 times
faster.
Dogs are frustrated a lotbecause trainers don't use
markers.
(12:11):
Dogs are frustrated a lotbecause we're bribing them with
food.
Now there are special occasionswhere food is out, that's if
you've got to use a food as alure to guide a dog.
You know, if I want the dog tosit, I might put food to its
nose.
If it never learned, sit foodto its nose, go up.
(12:33):
I would go back arch over andthe dog goes back and boom, the
dog sits.
Now I give the treat.
Well, I'm going to use a foodlure call it a bribe, if you
will just a couple times tocreate the behavior so that the
dog understands that Then I'mgoing to get rid of that food.
(12:56):
I'm going to use my hand itstill smells like food.
The dog might think there'sfood in there.
But I guide the dog back intothe sit and I click or I use my
verbal marker that I conditionedNice.
And then I reach in my treatpouch and I get the food and I
(13:18):
reward.
Now, as I'm doing that the dogis seeing.
Oh so there wasn't food in thehand before all this happened,
so you start fading.
If you're using a bribe, a lure,because you're teaching a new
behavior, look as soon as thedog gets it.
You need to be fading that foodout because food needs to come
(13:41):
from the treat pouch.
Get your hands off the treatpouch, forget about the treat
pouch, forget about the food.
Your job is to get the dogdoing the behavior and then
immediately marking thatbehavior with either your
clicker or your verbal marker,whether it's yes, whether it's
(14:02):
nice.
That's your focus, and when youdo that, it's going to take a
little while.
But when you do it that way,the dog's going to engage with
you and want to work for yourather than just always looking
for food.
Look, when you first put atreat pouch on, they're going to
be harassing you.
(14:23):
They know food's there.
I get it All right.
One of the worst things we cando and this again is how you're
using food wrong.
One of the worst things that wecould do is put on a treat
pouch, go train, end ourtraining session and take off
the treat pouch.
We're going to get a dog that'sonly going to work when it sees
(14:44):
the treat pouch what you needto do.
I know it's inconvenient, butif you want to get off of that
food and treat pouch quicker,you do this.
You put on that treat pouchfirst thing in the morning.
You leave it on at all times.
You take it off if you'releaving the house without the
dog.
You take it off when you go tobed.
(15:05):
Other than that, you leave iton so that it's just part of
your normal wear.
After the dog is trained you'renot going to need to do that.
But again, this is going tohelp get your dog trained faster
.
This is going to help withbetter communication.
(15:25):
Have that on you First of all.
You never know when your dog'sgoing to just offer an
incredible behavior that youwant you're trying to train in
and you can capture that.
And if you've got yourequipment, if you've got your
clicker with you, or if you'vegot your treat pouch with you
(15:48):
and you've been working on downand you know the dog doesn't
really have it that great yet,but your dog at 9.30 at night,
walks into the living room,comes to you to be pet a few
times and then lays down on itsown at your feet A I want to
label that behavior.
(16:09):
I'm noticing the dog's layingdown.
I'm going to go down, click andreward.
Now, I did not ask for down.
The dog offered that behavioron its own.
I labeled it as it washappening and then I clicked and
rewarded it.
That's called capturing.
That's another way that you canbegin to reinforce and teach
(16:31):
behaviors.
But getting back to food and theright way to use food, you got
to have the treat pouch on atall times and there's a sequence
Ask for the behavior mark withyour marker, then reach in the
treat pouch, then feed.
Okay, if your dog first of allin the beginning with food, you
(16:59):
want to have a consistentreinforcement schedule, what
does that mean?
That means that for everybehavior you ask for, every
correct response, your dog getsa food reward.
Okay, that's a continuousreinforcement schedule.
I do that until the dog getspretty good at the behavior.
(17:27):
So if I'm teaching down and thedog will do down, say eight,
nine out of 10 times the dog has, it understands what the
behavior is, okay, now, once weget to that point, I'm going to
change how I use food.
I then am going to use foodrewards intermittently.
(17:57):
Use food rewards intermittently, but let me go back to that
continuous reinforcementschedule when we're first
teaching behaviors.
The other thing that I do withfood.
Sometimes the dog gets one foodreward, sometimes they get four
, sometimes they get two,sometimes they get three.
Now they're little, the size ofa pea, but imagine this is my
(18:22):
treat pouch right here, okay,and the dog does a behavior.
I click, I reach in my treatpouch.
The dog gets one reward.
I ask for behavior again thedog does it.
I click, I reach in my treatpouch.
Get in one reward.
Give one.
Reach in my pouch.
(18:44):
Give the second one.
Reach in my pouch.
Give the third one.
I click, I reach in my treatpouch.
I pull in one, give it to thedog.
Pull in two, give it to the dog.
Ask for the behavior again thedog gives it.
(19:05):
I click, the dog gets one.
Ask for the behavior again thedog does it.
I click, the dog gets four.
One, two, three, four.
So when the dog responds to thebehavior, when I'm doing
continuous reinforcement, whenI'm teaching new behaviors,
(19:27):
they'll get, when they get theirfood reward, anywhere between
four tiny little pea-sizedpieces of food reward up to just
one tiny little pea-sizedpieces of food reward, up to
just one, and it varies.
Sometimes it's one, the nextone might be one, the next one
might be one, then the next onemight be three, then it might be
(19:49):
one, one, four, two, two, four,four, one, three, two, mix,
mixing it up.
Why do I do that?
Because there's psychologybehind that, and the psychology
(20:12):
is they're going to work harder,they want four, and when
sometimes they don't get four,they're going to work a little
harder to figure out how do Iget four.
So, in addition to that, thebiggest mistake that we make
with food is we ask for abehavior.
They do it.
Yeah, we don't have a marker.
That's a big mistake.
Number one, but number two weask for the behavior.
(20:32):
They do it.
We give them one food rewardand as soon as they're done,
they check out.
The dog checks out.
You lose the dog's focus rightaway and you may want the dog to
do something else.
So a really great skill is tovary the amount of treats after
(20:53):
a response so that the dog willstay engaged with you and not
check out, thinking, oh, I'monly going to get one because
that was a pattern.
I got one and we were done.
Next time you ask me, I got one, we were done.
So every time after I got myfood the dog took off.
We don't want that Now.
(21:23):
Once your dog knows a behavior,eight, nine out of 10 times is
very reliable.
We're going to also change howwe use food.
We're still going to do thereward schedule one, two, three
or four pieces when we reward.
However, remember when we werefirst teaching behaviors, we
(21:46):
gave a reward every singleresponse.
Okay, and that means that everysingle response there was a
click and they got their reward.
Remember, they might havegotten one, they might have
gotten three, might have gottenthree, might have gotten four,
because we're varying it.
Well, once they consistentlyunderstand the behavior, now
(22:09):
when they do the behavior, theymay not get a click and a reward
.
We may ask them to do thebehavior two times in a row and
then they get a click and a foodreward.
That might be varied.
The next time when we ask forsit, we might not click, they
(22:31):
might not get a reward, and weask them to sit three more times
and after the third sit, weclick and give a reward.
We might just give one or wemight give three, we might give
four.
The next time I might ask forsit and the dog only has to sit
(22:55):
once and I reward the dog Nexttime.
Maybe the dog's got to sitthree times before a click and a
reward, or two times before aclick and a reward, or four
times.
I'm going to mix it up.
How many times the dog has torepeat a behavior before it gets
a click and a reward?
(23:16):
This is intermittent variablereinforcement.
This is the strongestreinforcement schedule.
This is what really getsanimals to work hard and work
fast and to really really bemotivated.
As your dog starts getting tothat point.
(23:36):
Now we want to start taking thedog in other environments.
Start with moderate or lightdistractions.
Listen wherever you go,wherever you train with
distractions.
If you can't keep your dog'sfocus, if your dog won't respond
to cues and commands, if yourdog won't take food, doesn't
(23:57):
mean that this doesn't work.
It means you're too close todistractions that are too
intense right now.
You got to start with the babysteps.
You've got to go to milderdistractions and be further away
from them.
Well, your dog knows they'rethere, but you can keep your
dog's focus.
Your dog is relaxed, it's loose, it'll take food, respond to
(24:20):
cues and commands and you trainthere with distractions and
you're using that variablereinforcement schedule.
You're not giving a click and afood reward for every response.
You're making the dog domultiple responses and you're
mixing it up.
Maybe he's got to do it twicebefore it gets a click and
reward.
(24:40):
Maybe next time they only haveto do it one time before a click
and reward.
Maybe they have to lay downfour times in a row before they
get a click and reward.
And remember, when we'rerewarding with food, sometimes
they might get four pieces One,two, three, four.
Sometimes they might get justtwo, one, two, four.
(25:01):
Sometimes they might get justtwo, one, two.
Remember we're picking them oneat a time out of the treat
pouch.
If you're rewarding multiplefood rewards, don't reach in the
treat pouch and grab four andgive it to the dog.
Do it one, reach in for thesecond two, reach in for the
third, three.
You get the idea.
(25:22):
You get the idea.
Now it's important when you'retraining and you're training
with food that you find what isyour dog's favorite food, and
usually it's not going to besome kind of store-bought treat,
all right, it's usually goingto be cooked chicken, cooked
beef, something yummy cheese,little cut-up pieces of hot dog.
(25:45):
Experiment with these foods,put out several little piles and
let your dog run to them.
See which one your dog goes tofirst, then second, then third,
and then do it again.
And now that they know whatthese things taste like, now
(26:09):
watch which one did they go tofirst, which one did they go to
second, which one did they go tothird?
These things are importantbecause your highest value food
reward let's say it's hot dogslet's say that's the one the dog
went to first the most.
I'm going to use that for reallygood responses, really good.
(26:29):
Let's say the dog wasstruggling and then all of a
sudden it did a behavior Perfect, giving you the hot dog.
But let's say that chicken theylike the second best and cheese
they like the third dog.
But let's say that chicken theylike the second best and cheese
they like the third best.
Okay, well, let's say theyrespond to a cue and command,
but it was not so great.
(26:50):
I still going to click andreward, but I'm going to give
the third tier reward, thatcheese.
But then the next time the dogdoes it the dog does it a little
bit better.
I'm going to click and I'mgoing to give a piece of chicken
, that second tier food reward.
Better performance, better pay.
(27:11):
Now, the next time the dog doesit perfect, I'm going to click
and give that piece of hot dog.
Yes, the highest value,performance-based pay.
These are things that can helpspeed up training.
These are things that canreally help cognify and clarify
(27:36):
in the dog's mind what it iswe're doing.
We need them to connect thesecognitive dots, to make the
connections.
I want you to work hard, but Iwant your hard work to pay off.
And what does that mean?
That means that I want you towork smart, not just hard.
(27:59):
I want you to work smart, andthese tips, these are the things
that are going to give you thebest results.
Now it's critical that you trainyour dog everywhere and little
by little, you go into more andmore distracting environments.
(28:19):
But don't ever say my dog can'tdo it, you're just in too
distracting environment too soon.
Back up, dial it down, get inan environment that's not as
distracting, where you can havesuccess.
Spend more time conditioningthere.
You're just working too fast.
Trust me, this can all beaccomplished.
(28:40):
You don't need to usepunishment.
I used to use punishment before.
I knew better, but you know youdon't know what you don't know,
and that's why education is soimportant.
That's why continuing youreducation is so very, very
important, because you willlearn these things and it's
(29:00):
going to be important.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, Idon't know if you can hear that
there's a little bit ofbackground music and that means
I'm out of time.
I hope you got something out ofthis 30-minute podcast.
Do me a favor If you like whatwe do, please, please, pause.
(29:20):
Give us a five-star review,share this with your friends and
family, share this with yoursocial media timeline.
I'm going to try to do a lotmore podcasts short podcasts
because I know everybody's busy.
Here comes our volume, right,everybody's busy, but we still
(29:41):
got to get our dogs trained,right.
Have a great day everybody.
I'm Will Bangura.
Thanks for joining me foranother episode of Dog Training
Today.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I'm outta here dog training, dog training, bye.
do you use food in training?
Are you rewarding your dog withfood?
Quite frankly, 99% of evenprofessional dog trainers use
food the wrong way, and youcould be doing it much more
efficiently.
And what does that mean?
It means that you're going toget your dog trained a lot
(00:22):
faster.
All that and more, in 60seconds.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Raised by wolves with canine DNA in his blood.
Having trained more than 24,000pets, helping you and your fur
babies thrive, live in studiowith Will Bangura answering your
pet behavior and trainingquestions.
Ladies and gentlemen, pleasewelcome your host and favorite
pet behavior expert, willBangura.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Would you like to go on?
Are y'all ready for this?
Good day dog lovers.
Hey, I'm Will Bangura.
Thanks for joining me foranother episode of Dog Training
Today.
I'm your certified caninebehaviorist and overall dog
(01:20):
behavior expert.
Do me a favor.
You know it always amazes mebecause we've got so many people
that listen to the podcast.
But you know, half of the folksthat listen are not subscribed
and you guys are missing a lot.
Do yourself a favor.
Do me a favor.
Hit that subscribe button soyou never miss an episode.
(01:41):
Also, if you love what we do,hit that like button.
Give us a five-star review.
That's how our rankings go up.
More people can hear about dogtraining today.
I wanted to take a quick second,like I said in the opener,
about the use of food in dogtraining.
You know I watch professionaldog trainers use food and
(02:03):
obviously I watch pet parentsuse food and most are using food
the wrong way.
So I want to talk about theright way Now.
First of all, if you're usingfood to train your dog, you must
have a treat pouch.
It is mandatory.
(02:24):
You must have a treat pouch.
It is mandatory.
The worst thing that you can dois be training your dog and
having food in your hand.
Dogs are going to respond moreto visual cues than auditory
cues.
If you're giving the commandlike this, with food in your
hand, they think that they haveto see this, they think that
(02:47):
this is a visual cure commandand they think that food's got
to be there.
That's part of the command too.
This is a bribe.
Training with food is not aboutbribing.
It's about rewarding the dog.
Think about food as a paycheckand the dog is doing work and
(03:08):
the dog's going to get itspaycheck after it does the work
and that treat pouch.
That's a wallet or a pursewhere the currency is the money,
the pay for the work for thedog, and in this case it's
extremely high value foodrewards.
(03:28):
They should be tiny, about thesize of a pea, but highly I mean
highly palatable.
Don't use garbage.
Find out what your dog loves.
Is it little cut up pieces ofhot dog?
Little cut up pieces of cheese?
Little cut up pieces of chickenor beef?
That's what you want to useabout the size of a pea.
(03:51):
Now, if you're using food, youhave got really any reinforcer.
You've got between about a halfa second and two seconds
maximum to get that food in thedog's mouth for them to connect
the dots.
Hey, I'm getting that foodbecause I sat.
(04:12):
You know, if you ask for a sitand the food doesn't get in the
dog's mouth for four secondslater, it's very likely the dog
is not connecting the dots.
It has no clue.
Hey, the reason I got this foodis because I sat.
Now the dog will like the food.
Maybe that 20 minute trainingsession that you're in with the
(04:36):
dog is more pleasant becausethere's food there.
It's kind of like, you know, ifyou're invited to a party.
Have you ever been invited to aparty and there was like no
food?
But then you're invited toanother party and they got this
incredible spread.
Hey, you're going to enjoy theparty that's got all the food.
So you're going to enjoy thetraining where there's food
(05:00):
involved.
But for the food to be areinforcer, it's a timing issue.
Now, if we don't want the foodto be a bribe and we've got to
have it in a treat pouch andthat's critical.
By the time the dog does thebehavior, then we reach in that
treat pouch, pull the treat out,give it to the dog.
(05:25):
We've lost that window.
That might be longer than twoseconds.
Remember the rule You've gotabout a half a second to two
seconds to get the food in thedog's mouth, or they're not
going to connect the dots.
You're working hard but you'renot working smart.
You're working hard but you'renot working smart.
(05:51):
Now the next thing if you wantto work with food correctly, you
have to be using a markersystem.
What does that mean?
That means that you areclassically conditioning a
signal to the food reward.
Some of you have heard about aclicker.
Some of you have understoodmarker training as maybe using
(06:11):
the word yes.
Now, the clicker is a sound.
Yes is a sound.
Neither one of those have anyvalue to a dog until you
condition either the click orthe word yes Doesn't have to be
the word yes.
It could be nice, but you'vegot to take something that's a
(06:34):
neutral stimulus.
It has no value and you need tocondition and pair value to
that neutral stimulus.
And let me explain how thisworks.
The clicker has no value.
But let's say I've got 30 smallpieces of high value food
(06:55):
rewards and on day one I goclick.
Immediately I give a treat.
I go click.
I immediately give anothertreat again I go click.
I give a treat.
I go click.
I immediately give anothertreat Again, I go click, I give
another treat and I keeprepeating this process Click
treat, click treat.
That's the clicker, is themarker.
(07:16):
I'm conditioning that clickmeans treat and my timing's got
to be good here.
Click treat, click.
Give the treat, get that treatin the dog's mouth immediately
after the click.
You're going to do that forabout 30 times in a row.
You're going to do that forabout three days in a row.
(07:39):
On day four, when your dog'sjust hanging out near you,
you're going to test it.
You're going to click yourclicker.
Hey, does your dog come runningover to you, excited, looking
for food?
Because if it does, you knowthat the dog understands click
means treat.
Now that clicker has value.
(08:00):
It used to be a neutralstimulus.
Now it's a conditioned stimulus.
It's been conditioned that itmeans food's coming.
It is that sound.
That click is a bridge betweenthe click and the food.
It's a signal that we conditionso that when a dog does a
(08:25):
behavior, what we can do, alwaysvery quickly, is click that
clicker.
The instant the dog's butt hitsthe ground on, sit, click.
That signals the dog.
There's a light bulb that goesoff in the dog's brain that says
hey, I know that sound.
That means I'm getting a foodreward.
(08:48):
So even if it takes you fiveseconds to reach in that treat
pouch and get the food to thedog, you've not lost any timing
as long as your marker thatyou're using has good timing.
Now let's say that you conditionthe food to the word yes or
(09:11):
nice.
I like using nice.
Same thing 30 pieces ofhigh-value food rewards.
Very small, the size of a pea,I've got to go.
Nice, give the treat.
Nice, give another treat.
Nice, give another one, you getthe another treat.
Nice, give another one, you getthe idea.
30 times in a row, three daysin a row, day four, I'm going to
(09:31):
test it Arbitrarily.
I throw out the word nice.
Does my dog come running to melooking for food?
If it does, missionaccomplished.
Now I've created a marker intraining and now it has value.
Now I can use it.
But here's an important stepNever click that clicker, except
(09:57):
for marking a desired behavior.
But the behavior has to happenfirst.
Then you click the clicker,then you reach in your treat
pouch, then you give the foodreward.
Do not reach in that treatpouch until after the behavior
has happened.
Do not have food in your handuntil after the behavior has
(10:23):
happened.
Hand until after the behaviorhas happened.
Don't be reaching for thattreat pouch until after the
behavior has happened.
These are the biggest mistakesthat trainers and pet parents
are making.
They got food in their hand.
When they're asking for thebehavior, they have their hand
in the treat pouch.
When they're asking for thebehavior, they're having their
(10:45):
hand in the treat pouch.
When they're asking for thebehavior, they're having their
hand in the treat pouch, askingfor the behavior and pulling the
food out.
They're reaching for the treatpouch, asking for the behavior.
No, that's all wrong.
Forget about the food, forgetabout the treat pouch.
Get your dog doing the behavioryou want.
(11:07):
Maybe you're working on thebehavior of down, lying down,
and so you ask for down and yourdog does it.
You get that behavior.
The only thing you need toworry about is as soon as your
(11:29):
dog engages in that behavior.
If it's down, as soon as thebelly hits the ground, you need
to click or say nice, whateverthat conditioned marker is.
And when you do that, here'sthe sequence Dog lays down,
click, light bulb goes on in thedog's brain.
I'm getting a food reward.
You reach in your treat pouch,you pull out the food and you
(11:51):
give it to the dog.
There is the clearest ofcommunication there and when
communication is clear, the dogis going to learn 12 times
faster.
Dogs are frustrated a lotbecause trainers don't use
markers.
(12:11):
Dogs are frustrated a lotbecause we're bribing them with
food.
Now there are special occasionswhere food is out, that's if
you've got to use a food as alure to guide a dog.
You know, if I want the dog tosit, I might put food to its
nose.
If it never learned, sit foodto its nose, go up.
(12:33):
I would go back arch over andthe dog goes back and boom, the
dog sits.
Now I give the treat.
Well, I'm going to use a foodlure call it a bribe, if you
will just a couple times tocreate the behavior so that the
dog understands that Then I'mgoing to get rid of that food.
(12:56):
I'm going to use my hand itstill smells like food.
The dog might think there'sfood in there.
But I guide the dog back intothe sit and I click or I use my
verbal marker that I conditionedNice.
And then I reach in my treatpouch and I get the food and I
(13:18):
reward.
Now, as I'm doing that the dogis seeing.
Oh so there wasn't food in thehand before all this happened,
so you start fading.
If you're using a bribe, a lure,because you're teaching a new
behavior, look as soon as thedog gets it.
You need to be fading that foodout because food needs to come
(13:41):
from the treat pouch.
Get your hands off the treatpouch, forget about the treat
pouch, forget about the food.
Your job is to get the dogdoing the behavior and then
immediately marking thatbehavior with either your
clicker or your verbal marker,whether it's yes, whether it's
(14:02):
nice.
That's your focus, and when youdo that, it's going to take a
little while.
But when you do it that way,the dog's going to engage with
you and want to work for yourather than just always looking
for food.
Look, when you first put atreat pouch on, they're going to
be harassing you.
(14:23):
They know food's there.
I get it All right.
One of the worst things we cando and this again is how you're
using food wrong.
One of the worst things that wecould do is put on a treat
pouch, go train, end ourtraining session and take off
the treat pouch.
We're going to get a dog that'sonly going to work when it sees
(14:44):
the treat pouch what you needto do.
I know it's inconvenient, butif you want to get off of that
food and treat pouch quicker,you do this.
You put on that treat pouchfirst thing in the morning.
You leave it on at all times.
You take it off if you'releaving the house without the
dog.
You take it off when you go tobed.
(15:05):
Other than that, you leave iton so that it's just part of
your normal wear.
After the dog is trained you'renot going to need to do that.
But again, this is going tohelp get your dog trained faster
.
This is going to help withbetter communication.
(15:25):
Have that on you First of all.
You never know when your dog'sgoing to just offer an
incredible behavior that youwant you're trying to train in
and you can capture that.
And if you've got yourequipment, if you've got your
clicker with you, or if you'vegot your treat pouch with you
(15:48):
and you've been working on downand you know the dog doesn't
really have it that great yet,but your dog at 9.30 at night,
walks into the living room,comes to you to be pet a few
times and then lays down on itsown at your feet A I want to
label that behavior.
(16:09):
I'm noticing the dog's layingdown.
I'm going to go down, click andreward.
Now, I did not ask for down.
The dog offered that behavioron its own.
I labeled it as it washappening and then I clicked and
rewarded it.
That's called capturing.
That's another way that you canbegin to reinforce and teach
(16:31):
behaviors.
But getting back to food and theright way to use food, you got
to have the treat pouch on atall times and there's a sequence
Ask for the behavior mark withyour marker, then reach in the
treat pouch, then feed.
Okay, if your dog first of allin the beginning with food, you
(16:59):
want to have a consistentreinforcement schedule, what
does that mean?
That means that for everybehavior you ask for, every
correct response, your dog getsa food reward.
Okay, that's a continuousreinforcement schedule.
I do that until the dog getspretty good at the behavior.
(17:27):
So if I'm teaching down and thedog will do down, say eight,
nine out of 10 times the dog has, it understands what the
behavior is, okay, now, once weget to that point, I'm going to
change how I use food.
I then am going to use foodrewards intermittently.
(17:57):
Use food rewards intermittently, but let me go back to that
continuous reinforcementschedule when we're first
teaching behaviors.
The other thing that I do withfood.
Sometimes the dog gets one foodreward, sometimes they get four
, sometimes they get two,sometimes they get three.
Now they're little, the size ofa pea, but imagine this is my
(18:22):
treat pouch right here, okay,and the dog does a behavior.
I click, I reach in my treatpouch.
The dog gets one reward.
I ask for behavior again thedog does it.
I click, I reach in my treatpouch.
Get in one reward.
Give one.
Reach in my pouch.
(18:44):
Give the second one.
Reach in my pouch.
Give the third one.
I click, I reach in my treatpouch.
I pull in one, give it to thedog.
Pull in two, give it to the dog.
Ask for the behavior again thedog gives it.
(19:05):
I click, the dog gets one.
Ask for the behavior again thedog does it.
I click, the dog gets four.
One, two, three, four.
So when the dog responds to thebehavior, when I'm doing
continuous reinforcement, whenI'm teaching new behaviors,
(19:27):
they'll get, when they get theirfood reward, anywhere between
four tiny little pea-sizedpieces of food reward up to just
one tiny little pea-sizedpieces of food reward, up to
just one, and it varies.
Sometimes it's one, the nextone might be one, the next one
might be one, then the next onemight be three, then it might be
(19:49):
one, one, four, two, two, four,four, one, three, two, mix,
mixing it up.
Why do I do that?
Because there's psychologybehind that, and the psychology
(20:12):
is they're going to work harder,they want four, and when
sometimes they don't get four,they're going to work a little
harder to figure out how do Iget four.
So, in addition to that, thebiggest mistake that we make
with food is we ask for abehavior.
They do it.
Yeah, we don't have a marker.
That's a big mistake.
Number one, but number two weask for the behavior.
(20:32):
They do it.
We give them one food rewardand as soon as they're done,
they check out.
The dog checks out.
You lose the dog's focus rightaway and you may want the dog to
do something else.
So a really great skill is tovary the amount of treats after
(20:53):
a response so that the dog willstay engaged with you and not
check out, thinking, oh, I'monly going to get one because
that was a pattern.
I got one and we were done.
Next time you ask me, I got one, we were done.
So every time after I got myfood the dog took off.
We don't want that Now.
(21:23):
Once your dog knows a behavior,eight, nine out of 10 times is
very reliable.
We're going to also change howwe use food.
We're still going to do thereward schedule one, two, three
or four pieces when we reward.
However, remember when we werefirst teaching behaviors, we
(21:46):
gave a reward every singleresponse.
Okay, and that means that everysingle response there was a
click and they got their reward.
Remember, they might havegotten one, they might have
gotten three, might have gottenthree, might have gotten four,
because we're varying it.
Well, once they consistentlyunderstand the behavior, now
(22:09):
when they do the behavior, theymay not get a click and a reward
.
We may ask them to do thebehavior two times in a row and
then they get a click and a foodreward.
That might be varied.
The next time when we ask forsit, we might not click, they
(22:31):
might not get a reward, and weask them to sit three more times
and after the third sit, weclick and give a reward.
We might just give one or wemight give three, we might give
four.
The next time I might ask forsit and the dog only has to sit
(22:55):
once and I reward the dog Nexttime.
Maybe the dog's got to sitthree times before a click and a
reward, or two times before aclick and a reward, or four
times.
I'm going to mix it up.
How many times the dog has torepeat a behavior before it gets
a click and a reward?
(23:16):
This is intermittent variablereinforcement.
This is the strongestreinforcement schedule.
This is what really getsanimals to work hard and work
fast and to really really bemotivated.
As your dog starts getting tothat point.
(23:36):
Now we want to start taking thedog in other environments.
Start with moderate or lightdistractions.
Listen wherever you go,wherever you train with
distractions.
If you can't keep your dog'sfocus, if your dog won't respond
to cues and commands, if yourdog won't take food, doesn't
(23:57):
mean that this doesn't work.
It means you're too close todistractions that are too
intense right now.
You got to start with the babysteps.
You've got to go to milderdistractions and be further away
from them.
Well, your dog knows they'rethere, but you can keep your
dog's focus.
Your dog is relaxed, it's loose, it'll take food, respond to
(24:20):
cues and commands and you trainthere with distractions and
you're using that variablereinforcement schedule.
You're not giving a click and afood reward for every response.
You're making the dog domultiple responses and you're
mixing it up.
Maybe he's got to do it twicebefore it gets a click and
reward.
(24:40):
Maybe next time they only haveto do it one time before a click
and reward.
Maybe they have to lay downfour times in a row before they
get a click and reward.
And remember, when we'rerewarding with food, sometimes
they might get four pieces One,two, three, four.
Sometimes they might get justtwo, one, two, four.
(25:01):
Sometimes they might get justtwo, one, two.
Remember we're picking them oneat a time out of the treat
pouch.
If you're rewarding multiplefood rewards, don't reach in the
treat pouch and grab four andgive it to the dog.
Do it one, reach in for thesecond two, reach in for the
third, three.
You get the idea.
(25:22):
You get the idea.
Now it's important when you'retraining and you're training
with food that you find what isyour dog's favorite food, and
usually it's not going to besome kind of store-bought treat,
all right, it's usually goingto be cooked chicken, cooked
beef, something yummy cheese,little cut-up pieces of hot dog.
(25:45):
Experiment with these foods,put out several little piles and
let your dog run to them.
See which one your dog goes tofirst, then second, then third,
and then do it again.
And now that they know whatthese things taste like, now
(26:09):
watch which one did they go tofirst, which one did they go to
second, which one did they go tothird?
These things are importantbecause your highest value food
reward let's say it's hot dogslet's say that's the one the dog
went to first the most.
I'm going to use that for reallygood responses, really good.
(26:29):
Let's say the dog wasstruggling and then all of a
sudden it did a behavior Perfect, giving you the hot dog.
But let's say that chicken theylike the second best and cheese
they like the third dog.
But let's say that chicken theylike the second best and cheese
they like the third best.
Okay, well, let's say theyrespond to a cue and command,
but it was not so great.
(26:50):
I still going to click andreward, but I'm going to give
the third tier reward, thatcheese.
But then the next time the dogdoes it the dog does it a little
bit better.
I'm going to click and I'mgoing to give a piece of chicken
, that second tier food reward.
Better performance, better pay.
(27:11):
Now, the next time the dog doesit perfect, I'm going to click
and give that piece of hot dog.
Yes, the highest value,performance-based pay.
These are things that can helpspeed up training.
These are things that canreally help cognify and clarify
(27:36):
in the dog's mind what it iswe're doing.
We need them to connect thesecognitive dots, to make the
connections.
I want you to work hard, but Iwant your hard work to pay off.
And what does that mean?
That means that I want you towork smart, not just hard.
(27:59):
I want you to work smart, andthese tips, these are the things
that are going to give you thebest results.
Now it's critical that you trainyour dog everywhere and little
by little, you go into more andmore distracting environments.
(28:19):
But don't ever say my dog can'tdo it, you're just in too
distracting environment too soon.
Back up, dial it down, get inan environment that's not as
distracting, where you can havesuccess.
Spend more time conditioningthere.
You're just working too fast.
Trust me, this can all beaccomplished.
(28:40):
You don't need to usepunishment.
I used to use punishment before.
I knew better, but you know youdon't know what you don't know,
and that's why education is soimportant.
That's why continuing youreducation is so very, very
important, because you willlearn these things and it's
(29:00):
going to be important.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, Idon't know if you can hear that
there's a little bit ofbackground music and that means
I'm out of time.
I hope you got something out ofthis 30-minute podcast.
Do me a favor If you like whatwe do, please, please, pause.
(29:20):
Give us a five-star review,share this with your friends and
family, share this with yoursocial media timeline.
I'm going to try to do a lotmore podcasts short podcasts
because I know everybody's busy.
Here comes our volume, right,everybody's busy, but we still
(29:41):
got to get our dogs trained,right.
Have a great day everybody.
I'm Will Bangura.
Thanks for joining me foranother episode of Dog Training
Today.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I'm outta here dog training, dog training, bye.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!