In this episode of Dog Training Today, certified canine behaviorist Will Bangura, M.S., CAB-ICB, CBCC-KA, CPDT-KA, FFCP, tackles one of the most common—and consequential—mistakes pet parents make when attempting behavior modification: working with their dog above threshold. Whether you're addressing fear-based reactivity, anxiety around people or dogs, or noise sensitivities like fireworks and thunderstorms, the success of counter conditioning and desensitization hinges on one critical factor—your dog must be emotionally below threshold.
Will breaks down exactly what "threshold" means in practical, observable terms, and why too many pet parents unknowingly push their dogs into mild, moderate, or even severe stress while trying to change emotional responses. This episode serves as a reality check and a science-based guide to getting it right.
You'll learn:
- Why starting too close to a visual or auditory trigger can completely derail counter conditioning efforts
- The difference between being "physically calm" and "emotionally below threshold"
- How to recognize subtle, hard-to-read canine body language signals that indicate discomfort or stress—well before overt reactivity surfaces
- How to establish safe training distances that allow for true learning and emotional reappraisal to occur
- Why early intervention and incremental exposure are essential, especially with noise-based phobias like fireworks
- Practical 4th of July safety tips for keeping your dog secure, calm, and protected before, during, and after fireworks begin
- When to consult with your veterinarian about the use of anti-anxiety medications or natural calming aids to support behavioral progress
Will also explores the neurobiology of fear and stress responses in dogs, offering a clear explanation of how amygdala-driven reactivity undermines learning when a dog is flooded, and why the emotional safety zone is where meaningful behavior change takes place.
Whether you’re a pet parent working through fear-based issues or a professional looking to sharpen your desensitization protocols, this episode offers grounded, science-backed advice you can put into practice immediately. Don’t wait until your dog is reacting—learn what to look for before the reaction ever happens.
If you need professional help please visit my Dog Behaviorist website.
Go here for Free Dog Training Articles
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Raised by wolves with canine DNA in his blood.
Having trained more than 24,000pets, helping you and your fur
babies thrive, live in studiowith Will Bangura answering your
pet behavior and trainingquestions.
Ladies and gentlemen, pleasewelcome your host and favorite
pet behavior expert, willBangura.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Would you like to go on?
Y'all ready for this?
Good day, dog lovers.
I'm Will Bangura.
Thanks for joining me for aspecial episode of Dog Training
Today.
(00:45):
There's a few things that Iwant to talk about today.
One we've got the 4th of Julycoming up and that can be a huge
stressor for lots of dogs aswell as pet parents that have to
watch their dogs suffering onthe 4th of July.
So I'm going to be talkingabout what you can do to help
your dogs on the 4th of July.
So I'm going to be talkingabout what you can do to help
(01:06):
your dogs on the 4th of July soit's not so scary for them.
And going along the same lines,because a lot of what we need to
do for dogs that have fears andI don't care what the fear is
is counter conditioning anddesensitization.
And we use counter conditioningand desensitization for dogs
(01:28):
that have anxiety, fears,phobias, reactivity, aggression,
dogs that get overstimulated,over aroused.
We use counter conditioning anddesensitization for dogs that
struggle with distractions.
And a lot of you are attemptingto do counter conditioning and
(01:51):
desensitization, but you'remaking some mistakes or you're
not getting the kind of resultsyou're looking for.
You're putting in the work butyou're struggling to get the
results.
So I want to talk about counterconditioning and desensitization
and one of the big things thatI want to talk about is
threshold, or thresholds and howthat relates to dogs, how that
(02:16):
relates to this topic.
So when we're talking about adog's threshold, we could really
break that into two categories.
One would be what is theirthreshold?
How much stress, what has tohappen before the dog starts
engaging in the outward visiblebehaviors of fear, anxiety,
(02:42):
reactivity or aggression Again,behaviors of fear, anxiety,
reactivity or aggression Again,threshold to see outward
behaviors.
So what are some of thosethings?
Well, maybe there's a trigger adog, maybe a dog, is dog
aggressive or people aggressiveand it triggers another strange
dog or another strange person.
Well, as soon as you startseeing outward behavior like
(03:04):
growling, barking, lunging, or adog that's afraid, trying to
run away, or their tail istucked or their ears get pinned
back, well, those are veryobvious outward behavioral
displays.
By that time it's too late todo anything with your dog.
(03:27):
We would call that overthreshold.
And when you're trying to docounter conditioning and
desensitization, when you'retrying to change how your dog
responds to triggers, they can'tbe over threshold when you
present the trigger.
So if you're trying to do thework and you're seeing outward
(03:53):
displays of behavior that you'retrying to resolve, you're doing
something wrong.
If it's a visual trigger, ifit's a visual trigger, you're
too close.
There is a distance.
If you back up, there is adistance between the trigger and
your dog where your dog doesn'tdisplay those outward behaviors
(04:20):
.
And if your dog's not showingthose outward display of
behaviors, then physically yourdog is below threshold.
That's good.
We're looking for that.
When we pick a distance todesensitize to a trigger, to
change how your dog feels aboutthat trigger, we've got to be at
(04:40):
a safe distance where your dogdoesn't have a care in the world
.
Now I like to teach my clients.
There's two kinds of thresholds.
There's the outward threshold,the physical display of outward
behaviors, and then there's thedog's inner threshold and that's
(05:02):
where the dog is at emotionally.
Inner threshold and that'swhere the dog is at emotionally.
You know you could have a dogthat's experiencing mild or
moderate anxiety and that dog'snot giving big outward displays
of behavior that you may see,that you might not see that.
And when you're trying tochange the way your dog feels
(05:27):
and change their behavior as itrelates to a trigger.
It's important that boththresholds the outward physical
display of behaviors as well asthe dog's underlying emotional
state the dog is below threshold.
The dog's underlying emotionalstate the dog is below threshold
.
That means that the distance ifit's a visual trigger, your dog
(05:48):
doesn't have a care in theworld.
There's zero anxiety, zero fear, zero reactivity, zero
aggression.
The only way that you're goingto know that your dog doesn't
have a care in the world mostlikely is if you study canine
body language, because there aredozens of tiny little subtle,
(06:11):
what I call micro gestures ormicro expressions in their
canine body language that willtell you they're experiencing
some stress.
It's the low level anxiety,stress, fear, discomfort that
the dog has when it is exposedto the trigger.
That's what most people don'tsee and I can understand people
(06:35):
working a dog over thresholdwhen they may have some mild
anxiety and they don't see thebody language.
But listen, when you're seeingclear cut signs that your dog's
not comfortable and you'reseeing that in their outward
behavior, your dog's way overthreshold and you can't do the
work, when your dog's like that,you're going to make things
(06:57):
possibly worse because the dog'sjust now rehearsing the same
behavior that we want to changeand the more they rehearse it,
the more conditioned it gets,the more habituated it gets and
the harder it is to be able touse counter conditioning and
desensitization behaviormodification to change that.
(07:18):
Now I want you to step asidefrom physical behavior displays
and get into the fact that theyare driven by your dog's
underlying emotional state.
I've said this on all of mypodcasts on counter conditioning
and I've got many the real workof changing the behavior of a
(07:42):
fearful dog, the real work ofchanging the behavior of a
reactive or aggressive dog, isnot about correcting that
outward behavior.
It's about changing the way thedog feels about the trigger.
It's about changing thatunderlying emotional state.
See, no animal goes into fightor flight if it's reactivity or
(08:08):
aggression, unless they'reperceiving a threat.
And to perceive a threat thedog's dealing with anxiety and
fear.
Get rid of that anxiety andfear, get rid of that stress,
get rid of that discomfort,change the perception the dog
has about the trigger andthere's no need for the dog to
(08:29):
display those behaviors.
They melt away.
However, on the other side ofthe coin, if you're using
corrections, leash pops,scolding the dog using an
electronic collar that justsuppresses the outward behavior
temporarily.
You're being fooled.
It's a Band-Aid and it's goingto come back Because if you
(08:52):
don't change the underlyingemotional state, nothing changes
.
You've just temporarily setthat behavior aside and you've
added more stress for the dogbecause now the dog has what we
call trigger stacking.
The dog is stressed out aboutthe trigger, the initial trigger
, but now the dog is stressedout about the discomfort of the
correction and it starts pairingthat discomfort and association
(09:18):
with the already paireddiscomfort and association with
the main trigger, whether that'sa person or a dog.
I'm using those as the triggerexamples.
You've got to know bodylanguage.
You've got to keep the dogbelow threshold.
Folks, a lot of you are tryingto do this and your dog is
(09:39):
having either a mild meltdown ora major meltdown.
You're too close, way too soon.
Now there's a lot of nuances tocounter conditioning and
desensitization to make surethat, as we're pairing positive
reinforcement with the trigger,that the dog understands that
(10:00):
the reason the good things arehappening, like getting high
value food rewards when it seesthe trigger, is because it sees
the trigger.
And if we're talking about soundphobia because I'm going to be
talking about the 4th of Julyand fireworks in a second If
we're talking about soundphobias.
It's the same thing.
We have to start at a volumewhen we're exposing the dog to
(10:27):
that trigger where the dogdoesn't have a care in the world
.
And that means we've got to beable to read all the little,
mild, subtle signs of caninebody language the dog licking
its lips we call lip licking ortongue flicks, dilated pupils,
rigid muscles in the foreheadand face.
(10:49):
A dog tight, closed mouthWatching their breathing
patterns.
What's going on with their tail?
There's dozens and dozensyawning, turning their head away
, lots of different signals.
You can study canine bodylanguage and you can get a great
guide and a great article bygoing to one of my websites at
(11:11):
dogbehavioristcom that'sdogbehavioristcom and go grab
the article on counterconditioning and desensitization
and, while you're up there,grab the article that says
something to the effect ofunderstanding thresholds and
canine body language.
(11:32):
To have success with counterconditioning and desensitization
, first of all, you also need tounderstand that when we're
trying to change the dog'sunderlying emotional state and
their cognitive association thatthey have with the trigger that
the dog views as scary, we wantto make that a positive
(11:52):
experience.
We want to change the way thedog feels and thinks about that
trigger, where, when they hearor see the trigger, they get
excited, they get happy, they'rethinking.
I love it when I hear this, Ilove it when I see this trigger,
because good things happen.
If you start at a level, volumewise or distance, if it's
(12:13):
visual, where the dog isstressed out, how do you make
that a positive?
And when you're stressed, whenyou're fearful, when you're
anxious, how well do you learn?
It's really hard to learnanything if you're in fight or
flight.
You've got to be calm, you'vegot to be relaxed.
(12:36):
So that means starting at asafe distance or having a safe
volume where the dog doesn'thave a care in the world.
Now, if we're talking aboutvisual triggers, they need to be
out of view.
Your dog is here and then herecomes the visual trigger and
you're at a distance where yourdog does not care.
(12:57):
As soon as that visual triggercomes into view, you need to
immediately mark that, whetherit be using a verbal marker of
yes or nice or good or using aclicker.
Again, here's your dog.
As soon as the visual triggercomes into view, you need to
(13:19):
mark your dog with your markerand you need to start feeding
constantly and continuously, forabout three to five seconds.
I like using a squeeze bottlewhere I make a meat, a yummy,
yummy food paste, so that I canhave a constant tiny, tiny
(13:42):
stream of highly palatable foodthat the dog absolutely loves,
the entire time the trigger ispresent.
Here's your dog.
Here comes the trigger.
Here comes this click Get outthe squeeze bottle.
Feed, feed, feed, feed, feed,feed, feed constantly and
continuously for three to fiveseconds.
Keep feeding Trigger goes away.
Stop the feeding.
Trigger comes back into view.
Feed, feed, feed constantly andcontinuously for three to five
(14:02):
seconds.
Keep feeding trigger goes away.
Stop the feeding.
Trigger comes back into view.
Mark with your clicker.
Start feeding with your squeezebottle feed, feed, feed, feed,
feed constantly and continuouslyfor about three to five seconds
and that trigger goes out ofview stop, stop feeding.
See, we're making a very blackand white cause and effect
(14:26):
association.
As soon as a trigger appears,boom, good things happen.
As soon as a trigger heads outof there and you don't see it,
those good things stop.
And ideally, what I would wantto do, let's say I brought that
trigger into view during acounter conditioning and
desensitization session 10 times.
(14:47):
So here's the dog 10 timestrigger comes into view feed,
feed, feed, feed feed feed feedtrigger goes out of view,
trigger comes into view feedfeed, feed, feed feed feed feed
trigger goes out of view 10times.
Let's say I did it ten times inthat session.
Maybe two of those times I'mgoing to bring in a visual
(15:07):
stimulus that's not a trigger.
So let's give the example of adog that has aggression towards
strangers.
Well, eight of those ten timesthe trigger appears it's going
to be an unfamiliar person thatthe dog would normally be afraid
of.
But remember, we're at adistance where the dog can see
(15:29):
the trigger but it doesn't careand that is critical.
You must start the dog belowthreshold, okay.
So eight of those times whenthe person comes into view it's
an unfamiliar person, but two ofthe times it's a familiar
person that the dog doesn't haveaggression towards.
(15:53):
And when that familiar personcomes into view they stay there
for three to five seconds butthere's no feeding and they go
out of view.
And in that counter conditioningand desensitization session I
may have that familiar personcome into view a couple of times
and not feed the dog, not givea click or a marker to the dog,
(16:18):
but then only to have theunfamiliar person at a safe
distance where the dog doesn'thave a care in the world, bring
about wonderful things.
The high value food, rewards,the positive reinforcement, the
familiar person is the control.
And when you do that it makesthings much more black and white
(16:41):
, much more crystal clear forthe dog why good things are
happening.
And they really more stronglyassociate good things and
positive reinforcement with thestranger.
And I want to make sure theyunderstand hey, good things are
happening because of thestranger, are happening because
(17:02):
of the stranger.
Now, at that safe distance, whenthe dog loves this game, when
the dog loves this game, and itmight be a couple of days, it
might be a week, might be a fewweeks at the safe distance, over
and over and over.
But when the dog loves the game, then you get to start moving a
(17:22):
little closer.
So, instead of where youstarted, trigger comes into view
and stops there.
Well, now, after we've workedthere for a while, the trigger
comes into view and gets alittle closer.
As long as that new, closerdistance, your dog doesn't have
a care in the world, you're atthe right distance and now you
(17:46):
can start that counterconditioning and desensitization
process all over again, verygradually, very systematically,
you're getting closer and closerand closer and closer If it's a
visual trigger, whether that bea dog, whether that be a person
.
(18:07):
But a lot of you are working toofast.
You need to dial, listen.
If your dog shows any sign ofanxiety or stress, you need to
dial it back.
All right, create more distancewhere your dog is fine.
Take it slow.
You can't work faster than yourdog is fine.
Take it slow.
You can't work faster than thedog's pace.
And if you're really bad atreading canine body language,
(18:30):
you're going to struggle Again.
Go to my website,dogbehavioristcom.
Find my guide on counterconditioning and desensitization
.
Find my guide on canine bodylanguage.
Find my guide on understandingthresholds and canine body
language.
(18:51):
To have success with counterconditioning and desensitization
, get yourselves really welleducated, because when you're
armed with knowledge, you've gotpower and you can have success.
But a lot of you are justworking way, way, way too fast.
(19:17):
All right, let's talk about the4th of July, because a lot of
dogs panic.
A lot of dogs have incrediblephobias of the sound of
fireworks.
Now you've got a little bit oftime.
Let's see.
Today is June 23rd, so we gotthe rest of this month and you
got a couple days.
Maybe in July.
You need to start utilizing thesound of fireworks that are
(19:43):
recorded that you can begin toplay at an extremely low volume.
Now you can go to my local dogtraining YouTube page.
All right, look for.
Go to YouTube Type in PhoenixDog Training.
Look at my videos.
I've got a video that hasnothing but sounds of fireworks
(20:09):
and you can use that to begin todesensitize your dog to
fireworks.
I'll explain how we do that ina second.
Now, if you want, you can alsogo to my website at
phoenixdogtrainingcom.
That's phoenixdogtrainingcom.
Forward slash, then type in theword sounds and that'll bring
(20:31):
up all kinds of recorded soundsthat dogs might be afraid of.
Okay, garbage disposal, fireleaf blower, the printer, all
kinds of different things, trucksounds.
But in that we've also got ahuge soundtrack of fireworks and
(20:58):
if you go there and you listento it, you're also going to see
and hear very specificinstructions on how to use that
to desensitize your dog.
But it's very similar.
It's the same thing as what wetalked about with the visual
trigger.
Right, the volume we startplaying fireworks at.
Your dog can't have a care inthe world.
(21:20):
That means your dog's belowthreshold and that's where this
work has to be done.
If your dog is showing stress,the volume is too high, turn it
down.
And the way you want to do thedesensitization and counter
conditioning is press play andas soon as the sounds start,
feed, feed, feed, feed, feedconstantly and continuously for
(21:43):
about three to five seconds,press stop, stop feeding, rinse
and repeat Again.
Press play.
As soon as the sound of thefireworks starts, begin feeding,
feed, feed, feed, feedconstantly and continuously for
about three to five seconds,press stop, stop feeding.
You're going to do that overand over until the dog
(22:08):
absolutely is dying for you topress play and hear the
fireworks so it can get someyummy food when your dog loves
that.
Now you can turn the volume upjust a tiny bit and start that
process all over again.
And remember, as you're goingup in volume, gradually, slowly,
systematically, over days,weeks, maybe months, depends on
(22:30):
the dog and how severe theirfear is.
But as you're doing that, atany point you see your dog
getting stressed, nervous, bringthe volume down, bring it down,
spend more time there,conditioning that.
You'll know when your dog lovesthis counter conditioning and
(22:53):
desensitization game with thetrigger of the person or the
sound.
And let me explain how you canfigure that out the first couple
weeks.
As soon as the trigger starts,whether it's auditory, whether
it's visual, immediately givethe mark.
If you're using a clicker,click.
(23:13):
If you're using a verbal marker, like nice or yes, give that
marker and immediately beginfeeding.
That's the sequence Triggerbegin feeding.
That's the sequence.
Trigger mark the dog feed.
Trigger goes away.
Stop feeding.
Now do that for about two weeks.
(23:40):
You're creating a patternTrigger mark feed.
Dogs are incredible at figuringout patterns, so when they love
it.
I want you to make a change.
Do everything the same, justdon't mark the dog when the
trigger comes and don't feed.
Wait to see.
When you don't mark and youdon't start feeding, does the
(24:03):
dog look to you and say, hey,where's my click, where's my
marker word, yes, where's myfood?
And when they do that, you knowfor sure they understand the
game.
And when they understand thegame, it's just about going
(24:25):
through the process now,gradually and slowly, at your
dog's pace.
If you take the time, you candesensitize any dog to anything.
Your timing's got to be good.
You got to keep the dog belowthreshold, you got to be able to
read canine body language andif you're dealing with a
(24:46):
reactive or aggressive dog, youprobably need to hire a
professional.
It's really.
It can be dangerous.
The other thing listen, if youhave not had time yet to
desensitize your dog tofireworks, let's talk about what
else you can do.
First of all, you can go toyour veterinarian If it's, if
(25:06):
your dog reacts very severely,they're panicking.
It's a panic attack.
Maybe medication is somethingyou might want to consider.
That's a personal decision.
If it's my dog, if my dog'spanicking, I'm going to my vet.
I'm asking the vet for someanxiety meds, situational
(25:27):
medication that my dogs can takewhen a major trigger like
fireworks happen, and if theypanic, I can keep them from
severe panic.
I don't want my dogs to sufferNow.
I had dogs that were afraid offireworks.
I did all the work of counterconditioning and desensitization
(25:50):
.
Today, when my dogs hear afirework, they come running to
me excited, looking for food.
Before they used to tremble andshake.
So trust me, the the work canbe done.
The work can be done.
You can change this now if yourdog has not.
(26:14):
If you haven't had time todesensitize your dog to
fireworks and it's severeconsider talking to the vet
about meds.
But let's talk about otherthings you can do.
First thing you want to do isfind the quietest area in the
house.
Usually that is a closet thathas a lot of clothes in it.
It's like a soundproof, sounddampening room.
(26:38):
Okay, go in there with your dog.
It's like a soundproof,sound-dampening room.
Okay, go in there with your dog.
Hopefully it's not too small ofa closet.
Go in there with your dog.
Bring toys.
Bring high-value treats.
Also, have a white soundmachine or music to help drown
out those sounds.
Play games with your dog.
(26:58):
Have puzzle games in therewhere your dog can use its nose,
which will also help relax yourdog.
Dogs doing nose work changesthe way they feel, so having
puzzles with treats in it is afantastic idea for them.
Okay, but get into the quietestroom you can.
(27:23):
If you know you've got a dogthat's afraid of fireworks,
please don't leave them alone.
Do you know how many dogs eachand every year panic?
They might be in a crate andthey're panicking to get out?
Their nose is bloody, theirpaws are bloody.
They break're panicking to getout.
Their nose is bloody, theirpaws are bloody.
They break a tooth trying toget out.
Some dogs break through windows.
Some dogs climb fence.
(27:46):
They try to escape and get away.
Some get killed because they'rehit by a car.
The shelters the busiest daythe busiest day of the year
where shelters take in more dogsthan any other day of the
entire year is the 4th of July.
Because dogs get scared, theones that are fearful, and a lot
(28:08):
of them try to run away andescape, and they do, and they do
so.
Make sure that your dog is safe.
Make sure they're secure.
Make sure that your dog has aflat collar on it with an ID tag
on it.
If your dog's not microchipped,see if you can get it
microchipped now.
Stay home with your dog.
Put your dog in a safe,comfortable location.
(28:31):
Like I said, closets are great.
They can be very quiet, havingthose puzzle games.
And if your dog is veryseverely fearful of fireworks,
if it's having a panic attackyou know if it's trembling, if
its tail is completely tuckedunderneath, if it's salivating,
it's having a panic attack,panting.
(28:52):
Get some help for your dog andthen continue to do the counter
conditioning and desensitization.
So next time there's fireworks,you're not struggling with this
and your dog's not struggling.
Your dog is not having a panicattack.
(29:13):
But you've got to take thingsslow.
Everybody goes way too too toofast and you just can't do that.
Well, folks, I don't know ifyou can hear that music in the
background.
It sounds kind of quiet, butthat music means we are out of
(29:34):
time.
I just wanted to take a fewminutes here to talk about some
of the mistakes people aremaking with counter conditioning
and desensitization and whatyou can do, also for the 4th of
July.
But keep your dogs belowthreshold.
Look at their body language,take it slow.
Only work at your dog's paceand you'll have success.
Do me a favor If you like this,give us, hit that like button,
(29:58):
hit the subscribe button andplease share this with your
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We really appreciate it.
And if you're a longtimelistener of our podcast, if you
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please give us a review.
I'm Will Bangora.
I'm out of here.
Raised by wolves with canine DNA in his blood.
Having trained more than 24,000pets, helping you and your fur
babies thrive, live in studiowith Will Bangura answering your
pet behavior and trainingquestions.
Ladies and gentlemen, pleasewelcome your host and favorite
pet behavior expert, willBangura.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Would you like to go on?
Y'all ready for this?
Good day, dog lovers.
I'm Will Bangura.
Thanks for joining me for aspecial episode of Dog Training
Today.
(00:45):
There's a few things that Iwant to talk about today.
One we've got the 4th of Julycoming up and that can be a huge
stressor for lots of dogs aswell as pet parents that have to
watch their dogs suffering onthe 4th of July.
So I'm going to be talkingabout what you can do to help
your dogs on the 4th of July.
So I'm going to be talkingabout what you can do to help
(01:06):
your dogs on the 4th of July soit's not so scary for them.
And going along the same lines,because a lot of what we need to
do for dogs that have fears andI don't care what the fear is
is counter conditioning anddesensitization.
And we use counter conditioningand desensitization for dogs
(01:28):
that have anxiety, fears,phobias, reactivity, aggression,
dogs that get overstimulated,over aroused.
We use counter conditioning anddesensitization for dogs that
struggle with distractions.
And a lot of you are attemptingto do counter conditioning and
(01:51):
desensitization, but you'remaking some mistakes or you're
not getting the kind of resultsyou're looking for.
You're putting in the work butyou're struggling to get the
results.
So I want to talk about counterconditioning and desensitization
and one of the big things thatI want to talk about is
threshold, or thresholds and howthat relates to dogs, how that
(02:16):
relates to this topic.
So when we're talking about adog's threshold, we could really
break that into two categories.
One would be what is theirthreshold?
How much stress, what has tohappen before the dog starts
engaging in the outward visiblebehaviors of fear, anxiety,
(02:42):
reactivity or aggression Again,behaviors of fear, anxiety,
reactivity or aggression Again,threshold to see outward
behaviors.
So what are some of thosethings?
Well, maybe there's a trigger adog, maybe a dog, is dog
aggressive or people aggressiveand it triggers another strange
dog or another strange person.
Well, as soon as you startseeing outward behavior like
(03:04):
growling, barking, lunging, or adog that's afraid, trying to
run away, or their tail istucked or their ears get pinned
back, well, those are veryobvious outward behavioral
displays.
By that time it's too late todo anything with your dog.
(03:27):
We would call that overthreshold.
And when you're trying to docounter conditioning and
desensitization, when you'retrying to change how your dog
responds to triggers, they can'tbe over threshold when you
present the trigger.
So if you're trying to do thework and you're seeing outward
(03:53):
displays of behavior that you'retrying to resolve, you're doing
something wrong.
If it's a visual trigger, ifit's a visual trigger, you're
too close.
There is a distance.
If you back up, there is adistance between the trigger and
your dog where your dog doesn'tdisplay those outward behaviors
(04:20):
.
And if your dog's not showingthose outward display of
behaviors, then physically yourdog is below threshold.
That's good.
We're looking for that.
When we pick a distance todesensitize to a trigger, to
change how your dog feels aboutthat trigger, we've got to be at
(04:40):
a safe distance where your dogdoesn't have a care in the world
.
Now I like to teach my clients.
There's two kinds of thresholds.
There's the outward threshold,the physical display of outward
behaviors, and then there's thedog's inner threshold and that's
(05:02):
where the dog is at emotionally.
Inner threshold and that'swhere the dog is at emotionally.
You know you could have a dogthat's experiencing mild or
moderate anxiety and that dog'snot giving big outward displays
of behavior that you may see,that you might not see that.
And when you're trying tochange the way your dog feels
(05:27):
and change their behavior as itrelates to a trigger.
It's important that boththresholds the outward physical
display of behaviors as well asthe dog's underlying emotional
state the dog is below threshold.
The dog's underlying emotionalstate the dog is below threshold
.
That means that the distance ifit's a visual trigger, your dog
(05:48):
doesn't have a care in theworld.
There's zero anxiety, zero fear, zero reactivity, zero
aggression.
The only way that you're goingto know that your dog doesn't
have a care in the world mostlikely is if you study canine
body language, because there aredozens of tiny little subtle,
(06:11):
what I call micro gestures ormicro expressions in their
canine body language that willtell you they're experiencing
some stress.
It's the low level anxiety,stress, fear, discomfort that
the dog has when it is exposedto the trigger.
That's what most people don'tsee and I can understand people
(06:35):
working a dog over thresholdwhen they may have some mild
anxiety and they don't see thebody language.
But listen, when you're seeingclear cut signs that your dog's
not comfortable and you'reseeing that in their outward
behavior, your dog's way overthreshold and you can't do the
work, when your dog's like that,you're going to make things
(06:57):
possibly worse because the dog'sjust now rehearsing the same
behavior that we want to changeand the more they rehearse it,
the more conditioned it gets,the more habituated it gets and
the harder it is to be able touse counter conditioning and
desensitization behaviormodification to change that.
(07:18):
Now I want you to step asidefrom physical behavior displays
and get into the fact that theyare driven by your dog's
underlying emotional state.
I've said this on all of mypodcasts on counter conditioning
and I've got many the real workof changing the behavior of a
(07:42):
fearful dog, the real work ofchanging the behavior of a
reactive or aggressive dog, isnot about correcting that
outward behavior.
It's about changing the way thedog feels about the trigger.
It's about changing thatunderlying emotional state.
See, no animal goes into fightor flight if it's reactivity or
(08:08):
aggression, unless they'reperceiving a threat.
And to perceive a threat thedog's dealing with anxiety and
fear.
Get rid of that anxiety andfear, get rid of that stress,
get rid of that discomfort,change the perception the dog
has about the trigger andthere's no need for the dog to
(08:29):
display those behaviors.
They melt away.
However, on the other side ofthe coin, if you're using
corrections, leash pops,scolding the dog using an
electronic collar that justsuppresses the outward behavior
temporarily.
You're being fooled.
It's a Band-Aid and it's goingto come back Because if you
(08:52):
don't change the underlyingemotional state, nothing changes
.
You've just temporarily setthat behavior aside and you've
added more stress for the dogbecause now the dog has what we
call trigger stacking.
The dog is stressed out aboutthe trigger, the initial trigger
, but now the dog is stressedout about the discomfort of the
correction and it starts pairingthat discomfort and association
(09:18):
with the already paireddiscomfort and association with
the main trigger, whether that'sa person or a dog.
I'm using those as the triggerexamples.
You've got to know bodylanguage.
You've got to keep the dogbelow threshold.
Folks, a lot of you are tryingto do this and your dog is
(09:39):
having either a mild meltdown ora major meltdown.
You're too close, way too soon.
Now there's a lot of nuances tocounter conditioning and
desensitization to make surethat, as we're pairing positive
reinforcement with the trigger,that the dog understands that
(10:00):
the reason the good things arehappening, like getting high
value food rewards when it seesthe trigger, is because it sees
the trigger.
And if we're talking about soundphobia because I'm going to be
talking about the 4th of Julyand fireworks in a second If
we're talking about soundphobias.
It's the same thing.
We have to start at a volumewhen we're exposing the dog to
(10:27):
that trigger where the dogdoesn't have a care in the world
.
And that means we've got to beable to read all the little,
mild, subtle signs of caninebody language the dog licking
its lips we call lip licking ortongue flicks, dilated pupils,
rigid muscles in the foreheadand face.
(10:49):
A dog tight, closed mouthWatching their breathing
patterns.
What's going on with their tail?
There's dozens and dozensyawning, turning their head away
, lots of different signals.
You can study canine bodylanguage and you can get a great
guide and a great article bygoing to one of my websites at
(11:11):
dogbehavioristcom that'sdogbehavioristcom and go grab
the article on counterconditioning and desensitization
and, while you're up there,grab the article that says
something to the effect ofunderstanding thresholds and
canine body language.
(11:32):
To have success with counterconditioning and desensitization
, first of all, you also need tounderstand that when we're
trying to change the dog'sunderlying emotional state and
their cognitive association thatthey have with the trigger that
the dog views as scary, we wantto make that a positive
(11:52):
experience.
We want to change the way thedog feels and thinks about that
trigger, where, when they hearor see the trigger, they get
excited, they get happy, they'rethinking.
I love it when I hear this, Ilove it when I see this trigger,
because good things happen.
If you start at a level, volumewise or distance, if it's
(12:13):
visual, where the dog isstressed out, how do you make
that a positive?
And when you're stressed, whenyou're fearful, when you're
anxious, how well do you learn?
It's really hard to learnanything if you're in fight or
flight.
You've got to be calm, you'vegot to be relaxed.
(12:36):
So that means starting at asafe distance or having a safe
volume where the dog doesn'thave a care in the world.
Now, if we're talking aboutvisual triggers, they need to be
out of view.
Your dog is here and then herecomes the visual trigger and
you're at a distance where yourdog does not care.
(12:57):
As soon as that visual triggercomes into view, you need to
immediately mark that, whetherit be using a verbal marker of
yes or nice or good or using aclicker.
Again, here's your dog.
As soon as the visual triggercomes into view, you need to
(13:19):
mark your dog with your markerand you need to start feeding
constantly and continuously, forabout three to five seconds.
I like using a squeeze bottlewhere I make a meat, a yummy,
yummy food paste, so that I canhave a constant tiny, tiny
(13:42):
stream of highly palatable foodthat the dog absolutely loves,
the entire time the trigger ispresent.
Here's your dog.
Here comes the trigger.
Here comes this click Get outthe squeeze bottle.
Feed, feed, feed, feed, feed,feed, feed constantly and
continuously for three to fiveseconds.
Keep feeding Trigger goes away.
Stop the feeding.
Trigger comes back into view.
Feed, feed, feed constantly andcontinuously for three to five
(14:02):
seconds.
Keep feeding trigger goes away.
Stop the feeding.
Trigger comes back into view.
Mark with your clicker.
Start feeding with your squeezebottle feed, feed, feed, feed,
feed constantly and continuouslyfor about three to five seconds
and that trigger goes out ofview stop, stop feeding.
See, we're making a very blackand white cause and effect
(14:26):
association.
As soon as a trigger appears,boom, good things happen.
As soon as a trigger heads outof there and you don't see it,
those good things stop.
And ideally, what I would wantto do, let's say I brought that
trigger into view during acounter conditioning and
desensitization session 10 times.
(14:47):
So here's the dog 10 timestrigger comes into view feed,
feed, feed, feed feed feed feedtrigger goes out of view,
trigger comes into view feedfeed, feed, feed feed feed feed
trigger goes out of view 10times.
Let's say I did it ten times inthat session.
Maybe two of those times I'mgoing to bring in a visual
(15:07):
stimulus that's not a trigger.
So let's give the example of adog that has aggression towards
strangers.
Well, eight of those ten timesthe trigger appears it's going
to be an unfamiliar person thatthe dog would normally be afraid
of.
But remember, we're at adistance where the dog can see
(15:29):
the trigger but it doesn't careand that is critical.
You must start the dog belowthreshold, okay.
So eight of those times whenthe person comes into view it's
an unfamiliar person, but two ofthe times it's a familiar
person that the dog doesn't haveaggression towards.
(15:53):
And when that familiar personcomes into view they stay there
for three to five seconds butthere's no feeding and they go
out of view.
And in that counter conditioningand desensitization session I
may have that familiar personcome into view a couple of times
and not feed the dog, not givea click or a marker to the dog,
(16:18):
but then only to have theunfamiliar person at a safe
distance where the dog doesn'thave a care in the world, bring
about wonderful things.
The high value food, rewards,the positive reinforcement, the
familiar person is the control.
And when you do that it makesthings much more black and white
(16:41):
, much more crystal clear forthe dog why good things are
happening.
And they really more stronglyassociate good things and
positive reinforcement with thestranger.
And I want to make sure theyunderstand hey, good things are
happening because of thestranger, are happening because
(17:02):
of the stranger.
Now, at that safe distance, whenthe dog loves this game, when
the dog loves this game, and itmight be a couple of days, it
might be a week, might be a fewweeks at the safe distance, over
and over and over.
But when the dog loves the game, then you get to start moving a
(17:22):
little closer.
So, instead of where youstarted, trigger comes into view
and stops there.
Well, now, after we've workedthere for a while, the trigger
comes into view and gets alittle closer.
As long as that new, closerdistance, your dog doesn't have
a care in the world, you're atthe right distance and now you
(17:46):
can start that counterconditioning and desensitization
process all over again, verygradually, very systematically,
you're getting closer and closerand closer and closer If it's a
visual trigger, whether that bea dog, whether that be a person
.
(18:07):
But a lot of you are working toofast.
You need to dial, listen.
If your dog shows any sign ofanxiety or stress, you need to
dial it back.
All right, create more distancewhere your dog is fine.
Take it slow.
You can't work faster than yourdog is fine.
Take it slow.
You can't work faster than thedog's pace.
And if you're really bad atreading canine body language,
(18:30):
you're going to struggle Again.
Go to my website,dogbehavioristcom.
Find my guide on counterconditioning and desensitization
.
Find my guide on canine bodylanguage.
Find my guide on understandingthresholds and canine body
language.
(18:51):
To have success with counterconditioning and desensitization
, get yourselves really welleducated, because when you're
armed with knowledge, you've gotpower and you can have success.
But a lot of you are justworking way, way, way too fast.
(19:17):
All right, let's talk about the4th of July, because a lot of
dogs panic.
A lot of dogs have incrediblephobias of the sound of
fireworks.
Now you've got a little bit oftime.
Let's see.
Today is June 23rd, so we gotthe rest of this month and you
got a couple days.
Maybe in July.
You need to start utilizing thesound of fireworks that are
(19:43):
recorded that you can begin toplay at an extremely low volume.
Now you can go to my local dogtraining YouTube page.
All right, look for.
Go to YouTube Type in PhoenixDog Training.
Look at my videos.
I've got a video that hasnothing but sounds of fireworks
(20:09):
and you can use that to begin todesensitize your dog to
fireworks.
I'll explain how we do that ina second.
Now, if you want, you can alsogo to my website at
phoenixdogtrainingcom.
That's phoenixdogtrainingcom.
Forward slash, then type in theword sounds and that'll bring
(20:31):
up all kinds of recorded soundsthat dogs might be afraid of.
Okay, garbage disposal, fireleaf blower, the printer, all
kinds of different things, trucksounds.
But in that we've also got ahuge soundtrack of fireworks and
(20:58):
if you go there and you listento it, you're also going to see
and hear very specificinstructions on how to use that
to desensitize your dog.
But it's very similar.
It's the same thing as what wetalked about with the visual
trigger.
Right, the volume we startplaying fireworks at.
Your dog can't have a care inthe world.
(21:20):
That means your dog's belowthreshold and that's where this
work has to be done.
If your dog is showing stress,the volume is too high, turn it
down.
And the way you want to do thedesensitization and counter
conditioning is press play andas soon as the sounds start,
feed, feed, feed, feed, feedconstantly and continuously for
(21:43):
about three to five seconds,press stop, stop feeding, rinse
and repeat Again.
Press play.
As soon as the sound of thefireworks starts, begin feeding,
feed, feed, feed, feedconstantly and continuously for
about three to five seconds,press stop, stop feeding.
You're going to do that overand over until the dog
(22:08):
absolutely is dying for you topress play and hear the
fireworks so it can get someyummy food when your dog loves
that.
Now you can turn the volume upjust a tiny bit and start that
process all over again.
And remember, as you're goingup in volume, gradually, slowly,
systematically, over days,weeks, maybe months, depends on
(22:30):
the dog and how severe theirfear is.
But as you're doing that, atany point you see your dog
getting stressed, nervous, bringthe volume down, bring it down,
spend more time there,conditioning that.
You'll know when your dog lovesthis counter conditioning and
(22:53):
desensitization game with thetrigger of the person or the
sound.
And let me explain how you canfigure that out the first couple
weeks.
As soon as the trigger starts,whether it's auditory, whether
it's visual, immediately givethe mark.
If you're using a clicker,click.
(23:13):
If you're using a verbal marker, like nice or yes, give that
marker and immediately beginfeeding.
That's the sequence Triggerbegin feeding.
That's the sequence.
Trigger mark the dog feed.
Trigger goes away.
Stop feeding.
Now do that for about two weeks.
(23:40):
You're creating a patternTrigger mark feed.
Dogs are incredible at figuringout patterns, so when they love
it.
I want you to make a change.
Do everything the same, justdon't mark the dog when the
trigger comes and don't feed.
Wait to see.
When you don't mark and youdon't start feeding, does the
(24:03):
dog look to you and say, hey,where's my click, where's my
marker word, yes, where's myfood?
And when they do that, you knowfor sure they understand the
game.
And when they understand thegame, it's just about going
(24:25):
through the process now,gradually and slowly, at your
dog's pace.
If you take the time, you candesensitize any dog to anything.
Your timing's got to be good.
You got to keep the dog belowthreshold, you got to be able to
read canine body language andif you're dealing with a
(24:46):
reactive or aggressive dog, youprobably need to hire a
professional.
It's really.
It can be dangerous.
The other thing listen, if youhave not had time yet to
desensitize your dog tofireworks, let's talk about what
else you can do.
First of all, you can go toyour veterinarian If it's, if
(25:06):
your dog reacts very severely,they're panicking.
It's a panic attack.
Maybe medication is somethingyou might want to consider.
That's a personal decision.
If it's my dog, if my dog'spanicking, I'm going to my vet.
I'm asking the vet for someanxiety meds, situational
(25:27):
medication that my dogs can takewhen a major trigger like
fireworks happen, and if theypanic, I can keep them from
severe panic.
I don't want my dogs to sufferNow.
I had dogs that were afraid offireworks.
I did all the work of counterconditioning and desensitization
(25:50):
.
Today, when my dogs hear afirework, they come running to
me excited, looking for food.
Before they used to tremble andshake.
So trust me, the the work canbe done.
The work can be done.
You can change this now if yourdog has not.
(26:14):
If you haven't had time todesensitize your dog to
fireworks and it's severeconsider talking to the vet
about meds.
But let's talk about otherthings you can do.
First thing you want to do isfind the quietest area in the
house.
Usually that is a closet thathas a lot of clothes in it.
It's like a soundproof, sounddampening room.
(26:38):
Okay, go in there with your dog.
It's like a soundproof,sound-dampening room.
Okay, go in there with your dog.
Hopefully it's not too small ofa closet.
Go in there with your dog.
Bring toys.
Bring high-value treats.
Also, have a white soundmachine or music to help drown
out those sounds.
Play games with your dog.
(26:58):
Have puzzle games in therewhere your dog can use its nose,
which will also help relax yourdog.
Dogs doing nose work changesthe way they feel, so having
puzzles with treats in it is afantastic idea for them.
Okay, but get into the quietestroom you can.
(27:23):
If you know you've got a dogthat's afraid of fireworks,
please don't leave them alone.
Do you know how many dogs eachand every year panic?
They might be in a crate andthey're panicking to get out?
Their nose is bloody, theirpaws are bloody.
They break're panicking to getout.
Their nose is bloody, theirpaws are bloody.
They break a tooth trying toget out.
Some dogs break through windows.
Some dogs climb fence.
(27:46):
They try to escape and get away.
Some get killed because they'rehit by a car.
The shelters the busiest daythe busiest day of the year
where shelters take in more dogsthan any other day of the
entire year is the 4th of July.
Because dogs get scared, theones that are fearful, and a lot
(28:08):
of them try to run away andescape, and they do, and they do
so.
Make sure that your dog is safe.
Make sure they're secure.
Make sure that your dog has aflat collar on it with an ID tag
on it.
If your dog's not microchipped,see if you can get it
microchipped now.
Stay home with your dog.
Put your dog in a safe,comfortable location.
(28:31):
Like I said, closets are great.
They can be very quiet, havingthose puzzle games.
And if your dog is veryseverely fearful of fireworks,
if it's having a panic attackyou know if it's trembling, if
its tail is completely tuckedunderneath, if it's salivating,
it's having a panic attack,panting.
(28:52):
Get some help for your dog andthen continue to do the counter
conditioning and desensitization.
So next time there's fireworks,you're not struggling with this
and your dog's not struggling.
Your dog is not having a panicattack.
(29:13):
But you've got to take thingsslow.
Everybody goes way too too toofast and you just can't do that.
Well, folks, I don't know ifyou can hear that music in the
background.
It sounds kind of quiet, butthat music means we are out of
(29:34):
time.
I just wanted to take a fewminutes here to talk about some
of the mistakes people aremaking with counter conditioning
and desensitization and whatyou can do, also for the 4th of
July.
But keep your dogs belowthreshold.
Look at their body language,take it slow.
Only work at your dog's paceand you'll have success.
Do me a favor If you like this,give us, hit that like button,
(29:58):
hit the subscribe button andplease share this with your
friends and family on yourFacebook pages, on any other
social media.
We really appreciate it.
And if you're a longtimelistener of our podcast, if you
haven't given us a five-starreview and you love what we do,
please give us a review.
I'm Will Bangora.
I'm out of here.
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