April 28, 2023 • 61 mins
HELLO MY BOOKISH LOVERS AND FRIENDS! IT IS SO AMAZING TO BE BACK IN ACTION! Oh, how I've missed you all so dearly!
This guest is Emily Alcher, the Co-founder and CEO of Italic Type; an online platform for cultivating authentic, real-deal book communities, setting goals, and enhancing the reader experience.
FOLLOW ITALIC TYPE ON INSTAGRAM
In this episode, we discuss:
- What is Italic Type and why does it matter?
- What's different about Italic Type?
- Why we need to care about readers
- Why reading matters
- How Emily fell into her love of books
- Sharing the ups and downs of creating an online book club/company
- The importance of underground/backlist reads
- Uplifting minority subjects and voices
- Emily's favorite books of all time
- What books Emily would give to someone to show them she loves them
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alexandra (00:00):
Oh, my God.
Hello, you guys.
And welcome to DogEared Book Club.
I am your host, Alexandra Shelly andI can't even handle myself right now.
Oh my goodness.
I am back.
I am back recordingfor dogeared book club.
I have missed this so, so much.
(00:24):
And if you are new here at the mission ofDogEared Book Club is to connect you to
books, thought leaders and avid readers.
And this has become such a richcommunity of bringing together.
Not only incredible authorsand content creators on
Bookstagram, but also just really.
Thoughtful intelligent, creativebad-ass humans who have so much to
(00:51):
say, and to give whether that's putinto a book and shared with the world.
Or their work is inspired by literatureby reading by a particular author.
And I am here to connect everyone to theirmagic, to the magic of books of readers.
(01:11):
And if you are new here again,thank you so, so much for finding me
whether you found me on Bookstagramor you found me on the plethora of
podcasts, whatever you're looking for.
And if you have been followingme for quite some time, I cannot.
Thank you enough for yoursupport for your patients.
(01:32):
As you know, I have put DogEared BookClub on the back burner for quite a bit.
I've been building my psychic mediumshipbusiness, and I really had to put
everything into it when it came tobuilding my podcast for that to building
my business and scaling out my servicesand building out my website and really
(01:52):
everything that comes with being abusiness owner, it is quite wild.
And now that I feel like I'vedone everything I could to
really put my business out there.
I am now.
I left with some freetime and you know what?
God damn it.
I am going to go back todogeared book club because.
It is just my heart andmy soul and my love.
(02:15):
And I am just so, so excited to be back.
I mean, I'm really excitedto also introduce you guys to
this beautiful human Emily.
And she is the founder andcreator of italic type.
If you do not follow her and I tally type,
I don't walk, run to.
Italic type and make an account right now.
(02:38):
Pretty much the best wayto describe italic type is.
It is a modern day, actually.
Incredible robust and.
Just.
I sorry.
I wanted to say actually useful,but then it felt very insulting
to good reads because I don't know.
(03:00):
I just don't really use good reads.
It's not as appealing to me.
It's never really appealed to me, butwhen I stumbled upon italic type and
I actually got to making an accountand exploring it, but also talking
to Emily about her mission and whyshe created italic type, it is.
So bad-ass, it is everythingthat we need as a reader.
(03:23):
And I love the mission.
She has also, I'm going to say this.
I'm going to do my best to keep my cool.
But she is.
Is a professional book club facilitator.
I actually can't, I'm so manythings I'm like, okay, why.
(03:44):
Am I doing the wrong job?
Like, am I in the wrong?
Like, metaverse like I do, Ineed to be different person.
With like, uh, like, oh my God, like,I am so obsessed with this career.
I'm like, wait, I'm sorry.
Should I not be doing psychic mediumship?
And like, just be a professionalbook club facilitator.
Like what.
Sorry.
(04:04):
I just think it's the bestthing in the entire world.
So anyways.
Emily and I chat really.
Without her mission with italic typeand the state of the reader and what
she observed in the reading communityand what she really seeks to bring
with italic type and how to not only.
Add something to the community.
(04:26):
But also bring back whatwe have been missing.
I think one of my favorite aspects,which we will hear, in Emily's love
and description of her mission foritalic type is it's me for the reader.
We're not trying to runacross targeted ads.
(04:47):
And be distracted in any other way,besides reaching our reading goals
or exploring the next author wewant to pick up or the next book.
And what's happened is, as we know, isso many websites and especially good
reads is it's become a place of a lotof targeted ads and just nonsense.
And I.
(05:07):
Maybe that's one of the reasons whyI've never really used it because
it just especially I'm so ADHD.
I already read to.
Health my ADHD.
And then when I go onto a websitethat's for reading and then I get an ad
about nail Polish and then weight loss.
I'm like, whoa, wait.
I'm so confused.
I don't even paint my nails.
(05:28):
I did not least I donot need to lose weight.
Like what's happening.
And I don't even know where I'm goingwith this, but as you guys know, and
if you guys have been following me orlistening to me, you know, my silliness.
But.
I also love.
What Emily and her team aretrying to accomplish because.
Not only are there lists thatthey feature are so unique.
(05:52):
They also bring a lot of awareness,which I love in the book community.
Whether it's black history month or,LGBTQ pride month or Hispanic authors
or, underground authors that we do notknow yet, and they're underrated or any
topics that need to come to the surface.
But also she really helps smallpublishers and new authors
(06:15):
come to the surface as well.
I also love what she does.
She does his newsletter called thestate of the reader and it kind of
gives everyone an update of whateveryone is into what everyone's.
One's turning to, and it just makesyou feel really excited to be a
part of this italic type community.
And it's just intimate and wonderfuland it's sleek, it's modern.
(06:39):
I'm just really, really obsessedwith what Emily is doing.
And of course we get intothe mission of italic type.
We get into her inspiration.
We get into her favorite books.
We also get into.
You know what inspired her tocreate italic type, which I know,
obviously there may be some obviousreasons what it comes to make a
(07:02):
site that's better than good reads.
Wow.
I'm just really I'm reallyjust shitting on good reason.
I feel got a bad, but also whatever.
Whatever.
And I does really, reallylove this conversation.
I walked away.
Feeling so inspired and so enrichedtalking to Emily, and I'm just really,
(07:22):
really excited to be connected with her.
And I'm really, really excited.
That the book community has her.
She is.
A beautiful human and addingsuch magic to the book community.
So anyways, make sure to give Emilya follow on Instagram at italic type.
I'll put that in the show notes.
Also make sure to go to italictype so you can create your account
(07:47):
and join the community today.
And of course, make sure to givethis podcast a follow and share
with your loved ones or whoeveris interested in the book magic.
And of course, make sure to give me afollow on Instagram at @dogeared.bookclub.
And i am so excited toget into this episodes.
let's get right into it
Oh my gosh.
Anyways, thank you so much for coming on.
(08:11):
It is so amazing to connect with youand I've really been admiring it italic
type, you know, as like a beautiful
just, what do you call it?
It's funny cuz I sometimes still feellike a newbie in the bookish book
Instagram space, but honestly it's socool because this is such like a gem of a
(08:33):
community and every single time I connectwith anyone like yourself, it just.
Literally, it makes my day and it remindsme time and time and again, like why I'm
so involved and why I love just puttingmy heart and soul into this community
and learning not only about the, thefeedback I get, but also learning.
(08:57):
Why other heart and souls are in this too.
And it's just, it just makesthis, this a big love pod.
I love it.
I don't even know if that madesense, but thank you so much.
Emily (09:09):
My pleasure.
Um, I'm so excited toget to chat with you and.
Uh, and what you were saying totallymakes sense to me because I think readers
are the best people and it doesn'teven matter what you read necessarily.
I just find that readers have such apassion for books and such a passion to
connect with other people about them,that it really just facilitates Yeah.
(09:33):
Like a big glove pot.
And it's, I think, the best community tobe a part of and work with and serve and
that's really what we're trying to dowith italic type is create new technology
and communities to help readers livetheir best book lives, really, and make
(09:53):
discovering, reading, learning from,and connecting to other people about
books like really easy and joyful.
Alexandra (10:00):
Yes.
Oh my gosh, I love that.
Live their best book life.
That needs to be a sticker
Emily (10:06):
or something.
It sticker on a to bag.
Yeah.
Alexandra (10:12):
Yes.
So for any listeners that haveno heck in clue who you are,
no clue what italic type is.
Please introduce yourselfand introduce italic
Emily (10:24):
type Good.
Well, so I'm Emily Aler and I livein Chicago, and I'm the c e o and
Co-founder of Italic Type, which isa new platform for book tracking,
notetaking, and discussion all aroundbooks and the people who love them.
We are providing an alternativeto good reads, uh, when it comes
(10:46):
to, a new community, a new way totrack your books, vlog your books.
Um, and, uh, one of the things thatwe really focus on is helping readers
cultivate deeper connections to the booksthat they read and to their communities.
So I think reading books is one of thebest ways, maybe the best way we can learn
(11:06):
more about ourselves, learn more aboutthe world, learn more about each other,
um, and we're trying to, facilitatethose connections and, maximize the
intrinsic rewards that we feel whenwe, get a great book recommendation.
When we recommend a book to somebodyelse and they read it and they
love it and they tell us about it.
All of those little moments we wantto elevate and bring to the forefront.
(11:30):
And then we want to also, um, Minimizeall of the sometimes negative stuff
that can come along with readingtoo, the pressure or the guilt or the
competition and those kinds of elements.
So we're really, um, superlaser focused on, a reader,
first reader centric mentality.
How can we create the best possibleexperience for readers to have?
Alexandra (11:56):
Mm, This is like the dreamiest dreamiest platform ever.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so excited that you exist and I'mjust, I'm just even really curious.
Cause I know we'll get into the bookishstuff, but even as a book entrepreneur,
I'm so eager to learn, so what did youfind that was missing from Goodreads
(12:20):
that you feel like you're filling the
Emily (12:22):
gap?
Yeah.
Um, so Good Reads obviously hasbeen around for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
And for many people, um, it works welland they like it and that's great.
Uh, I think though that there's ameaningful slice of the audience
and myself included, that felt like,good reach just isn't that good.
(12:47):
It's , it's fine, but it's,um, A little bit cluttered.
Uh, there's a lot going on.
There's a lot of feature bloat.
Um, there's that big social feedthat sort of dominates the whole
experience, uh, that has like all ofyour, Facebook friends from 2008,
sort of like poured on over into it.
(13:08):
Um, many of those people you maynot care about what they're reading.
And so, uh, overall I feel like for theuser experience, there's a lack of.
Focus, a lack of clarity and simplicity.
It's a very noisy environment.
And then also, um, there's a lotof, um, sponsored activity on there.
(13:30):
There's a lot of ads, there's alot of sponsored posts, and that
really gets to, um, the idea that.
On Good reads, readers are theusers, but they're not the customers.
Right?
Readers use it for free, but the customersare the publishers that are paying for
the sponsored posts for the big book ads.
And so you're never quite sure youknow what you're, if what you're
(13:53):
seeing, is real or not is authentic.
Is trust, is is worthy of trust.
And so there's a, a trustelement that I think is sort of
lacking on good reads as well.
Um, and then the final thing is that GoodReads is owned by Amazon, um, and Amazon.
Amazon is Amazon, honest.
They do some good things.
(14:14):
They do some not so good things.
It's a huge, huge company.
And really the my thing with Amazonand readers is, um, that creating an
amazing technology experience for readersthat helps them live their best book.
Life is not Amazon's numberone business priority, right?
They're going to the moon, they're.
(14:35):
Doing whatever else that they're doing.
Serving readers is maybe their,I don't know, 215th business
priorities, something like that.
Yeah.
And so what we thought of was, well,what would it be like for a company
to have their number one businessgoal be just about serving readers?
What would that look like?
(14:56):
And that's the, the diff the maindifference I think there, and
that's what we're trying to do.
Alexandra (15:03):
My heart is singing.
Oh my gosh, yes.
I totally resonate with all of that.
I think that's why that's something I wasnever immediately drawn to good reads.
I know a lot of people are like,oh, I'd be checked out, whatever,
and I'm just like, and to meit feels just like another.
Place to just do stuff.
It doesn't actually addto my book experience when
Emily (15:26):
I feel like it's special or, um, I think like, uh, yeah, just,
it's just another place online.
It just looks like another, youknow, place like every other
digital space looks like online.
And, um, one of the words I useis, is like, Um, pleasant, right?
Mm-hmm.
So, so much of our, um, of ourinternet experiences, and I think
(15:48):
good reads included, they're justnot nice places to spend time with.
They're noisy, they're chaotic.
There's too much going on.
And so, um, we really wanted to takethe idea of like, Your cozy reading
nook in like this perfect library, youknow, sort of thing with like light
streaming in through the windows, andsort of translate that into the look and
(16:11):
feel of our design and our app so thatwhen you're spending time there, it's
like a very pleasant and thoughtful andlike nourishing place to spend time.
Alexandra (16:22):
Wow.
Ugh.
I love that.
Yes.
You've taken the literal experienceof reading and what it's.
What it is.
What it is like.
And you've put it on an online platform.
Yes.
And what it's supposed to be like.
Oh my gosh.
So take me back with sweet little Emily.
Of course, books have beensuch a big part of your life.
(16:46):
I really wanna learn about wherethis all started for you and Right.
Maybe it begins with.
A very memorable reading experienceor many, or maybe it was even
like not that long ago, but yes.
Take me back to Sure.
Where and when booksbegan to inspire you.
Emily (17:06):
Well, I've always been a really big reader, um, ever since I was a little kid.
Uh, I definitely caught the bugearly, uh, from my, both my parents
are big readers actually, but mydad really, um, he loves fantasy.
He loves Lord, the rings and whenI was young, like five or six.
He started reading The Hobbit to me.
(17:26):
And then eventually, took off, gotthe training wheels off and started
reading, fellowship on my own.
So we really shared a love of, thatthe trilogy together and then, Um, yeah.
And then so I've always been a big reader.
Uh, I was, um, actually a part of myjunior highs book club and, uh, which was
run by the librarian of our middle school.
(17:48):
And it was like me and all my bestfriends, it was like the most fun ever.
Uh, and, um, so yeah, definitely was oneof those kids, uh, always in the library.
Um, and then, in high school Iremember, reading, um, some of the
things that like really set me on fire.
Were discovering Tom Robbins, I don'tknow if you've ever read any of his work.
(18:11):
He's an author from like the seventies.
He wrote even Cowgirls Get the Blues.
Um, and that's like a sort of crazyfeminist western romp and that
I just remember that being one ofthose things where I was like, wow,
like this is really, really cool.
Um, And, uh, y you know, I, I basically,when I, um, when I got into college and
(18:36):
started working right after I had fellout of the habit of reading for pleasure,
and one day in my late twenties, Iwoke up one day and realized, I can't
remember the last time I read a novel.
Uh, this was a reallydisturbing thought to me.
And so I decided to start a book clubactually, with one of the friends that
I was in my junior high book club with.
(18:57):
They were like, oh, well thatwas really fun in junior high.
Maybe we should do that again.
And the purpose was really to help us.
Read more fiction, do more ofthe thing that we wanted to do,
but weren't doing on our own.
And, uh, so started that bookclub about 10 years ago now.
Uh, and things have just kind ofbeen going on, going ever since.
Alexandra (19:20):
Ugh, I love that so much.
I'm like, you know.
My heart is sad that I didn'tknow you in high school.
I was like, you know what, nowwe know each other cause Yeah.
We know each other.
, I was trying, like, something I'm honestlyworking on is like an interviewer,
like podcaster is to shut my mouthwhile you talk and not make noises.
(19:42):
But I like was so badly trying to containmyself when you were talking about
the book club with the librarian, ohGod, that is, So amazing and so cute.
I love it.
Emily (19:55):
Um, yeah, I just, you know, that really, um, that that book club
experience when I was in junior highreally fostered my, um, my love of
like, what it is to like, talk aboutbooks and discuss books and like,
just how fun and joyful that can be.
Alexandra (20:15):
Oh my gosh.
And I guess I wanna kind of tap intothis experience a little bit more.
So what, what did books mean to youand how that catapulted, I guess maybe
even on an emotional experience,because I know also those younger
(20:35):
years are such formative experiences.
Well,
Emily (20:39):
I, yeah, I, I think, um, What just drew me in so much.
Um, and, and why I've always loved it is,um, I, I'm a really curious person and I
just love learning about new places, newpeople, new stories, um, and, uh, and I
(21:04):
love traveling and I think that, like,you know, through a book, it, it is really
a form of travel, of like experienceand discovery of the world around you.
And so I think, um, You know, even as,as a young kid, that was always the
most, uh, exciting, you know, part of,uh, of reading was just like even, and,
(21:30):
and, and even, or maybe even, especiallywith fantasy too, because like, it
doesn't have to be a, a real place thatyou're discovering or learning about.
I mean, new worlds count too.
But that element of, um, being immersedin a different place, I think is.
Was one, is one of, it was one of the,I mean, is still a really powerful
motivator for me, but, but that'ssomething I can identify as a kid
(21:53):
that I was like very, um, drawn to.
I love
Alexandra (21:57):
that so much.
And so I know you kind of, I reallywant to hear about the origin story of
like when you came up with italic type.
Yeah.
And like how you brought that together.
Cuz I just, I don't know, again, evenwith me kind of bringing, DogEared
Book Club to Life, it's been likesuch an experience and I just.
(22:19):
As meeting a fellow book entrepreneur,I really wanna learn about how that came
Emily (22:25):
to life.
Oh, just it's like reallyeasy and seamless, right?
No, it's a journey.
Um, so how did this come about?
So I mentioned about 10 years ago,I started a book club in Chicago.
Mm-hmm.
And the point was to help people readmore fiction and emailed like a bunch of
people that I knew who wants to do this,and we've been going ever since actually.
(22:49):
So it's we have 70 people on the list now.
We have about like 15 peoplethat come to every meeting.
Uh, and as, the years went by and Iwas getting more involved in this book
club and leading it and growing it,um, I realized that there were so many
just really interesting and powerful.
(23:09):
Benefits that were comingout of this book club.
Not just the social accountabilityand motivation to read more.
Sometimes it's not, even if you love toread, it's not always easy to carve out
the time and, and to prioritize that.
The book club definitely helped with that.
But when you're reading to discuss withpeople, you're reading a little bit
more reflectively, you know, thinking toyourself, oh, what did I think about this?
(23:32):
Or what this characteris doing, et cetera.
When you're talking with otherpeople about the book, Um, you
always learn something new fromsomebody else's perspective.
Somebody always read somethingin a different way than you
did, or maybe you missed it.
Um, and so you're learningmore from other people.
And then finally, and maybe mostimportantly, it was this really amazing
(23:55):
conduit for friendships and relationships.
Cause you're getting to know peopleon a really, um, personal and
substantive level that you reallycan't replicate in other ways.
And especially I think, Not reallyonline, um, you know, in a, in a
more surface level sort of way.
And so one of my friends in the bookclub was joking to me and said like,
(24:19):
you know, I think in your thirties,uh, book clubs are the new bars.
Um, like, it's sort of like how, youknow, how do adults, um, make new friends?
And this was like a really, really,um, Important way and it just helps
you see, you know, another person'sperspective so much better too.
I think books, um, are act aslike a really interesting sort of
(24:42):
like conversation, like neutralconversation, like buffer object.
So that when if we're disagreeingabout something, about a book and
I say, oh, I interpreted it thisway cuz this is my life experience,
I'm not saying you're wrong.
I'm just saying this is what Ithought because this is my experience.
Mm-hmm.
And you might say, oh, interesting.
(25:04):
Right.
So it helps people I think, bea little bit less defensive and
like learn more from other people.
Okay.
So these are all the amazing insights andbenefits from book club and I just was
like obsessed with like thinking about.
Um, how do we get everyoneto do a book club?
How can we get everyone to havea great book club experience?
I'm pretty sure it's gonnasave democracy and save the
(25:26):
world, so let's try to do this.
And um, so it was, that was a reallybig part of the inspiration and
the motivation of thinking abouthow can we distill down those.
Benefits and make them moreaccessible to more people.
And that's one part of it.
Another part of it is, is goodreads like we talked about, and
just like, how come this is allthere is and couldn't it be better?
(25:49):
And don't readers deservesomething like a little bit better?
And then the third piece was, um,I heard, uh, the, the catalyst
really , okay, we're gonna startthis and actually do this thing.
Was, I was listening to a podcastand I heard an ad for Blinkist and
Blinkist, a subscription service.
Uh, and.
(26:10):
Basically what the ad saidtheir value proposition is.
Um, you know, reading isimportant, but you don't have time.
So now you don't have to, youcan sign up for Blankest for $16
a month and we'll send you thebullet point summaries of the book.
And I, I had a very visceral,uh, reaction to this idea.
(26:30):
I sort of took it, really personally,um, And it ha, it had a big
reaction to it because it was theexact opposite of what I wanted.
Now there's a market for that, you know?
Okay.
That's great that that's gonna besomething that appeals to some people.
I.
But it was the opposite of what I wanted.
I don't want something that likegets me out of having to read.
(26:50):
I want something that helps me, likemagnify all of like the benefits
that I get from it so that I feelmore incentivized to read more.
I wanna read more and engagemore with books, not less.
Um, and so that was when I, I, I thought,wow, How come startups are focused?
How come all the innovation and startupssort of energy that exists around books
(27:12):
are focused in these sort of shortcuttype ways and aren't really, um, about
serving readers, people who really, reallylove to read and and their interests.
And that's where I thoughtthe opportunity space was.
Mm.
Alexandra (27:28):
Oh my God, I, yeah, you saw me like totally reacting, Yeah.
I took it so personally.
Yeah, I, what was it?
There's another one I'm hearingabout where you take a screenshot
and it reads it to you.
Yeah, hey, I love that we are, cuz forpeople who say I don't know, There's
anyways, people who are not able to read abook but really, really want to, and want
(27:52):
to get the story and hear the story right.
Cool.
Great.
But it just, you're I, yes.
It totally takes away.
And I love how you said like the pointof reading is to get you into something
and this is something that's gettingyou literally out of the experience.
It's almost I want to eat my veggies.
(28:13):
You might as well justbreathe next to them.
And.
What has building the,italic community taught you?
Uh, well, we talked
Emily (28:24):
a little bit about this at the outset, but I think one of
the, the biggest things for me isjust, um, how great readers are.
I mean, I think like to be areader, there's a few things
that are true about you.
You're interested in learning aboutyourself, other people, about the
world, uh, you're, you value theexperience, having and developing
(28:46):
empathy and trying to learn more aboutother people's perspectives and put
yourself in other people's shoes.
Enjoying stories, and I thinkthere's also something inherently
reading is really interestingcuz it's, it is inherently social
and solitary at the same time.
Mm-hmm.
It's social in that we get recommendationsfrom other people and when we're done
(29:07):
with the book, we wanna talk about it.
But then we're reading alone.
And so I think readers have this bigdesire to want to like connect with
other people, find their book club.
I mean, that's really like the energythat's going on, um, on books, Instagram.
And I see a teletype reallyas a compliment to that.
Like sort of the, an on-ramp thatmight start on book Instagram, might
(29:30):
continue onto italic type whereyou say, okay, let's read this
book together and talk about it.
Okay.
You posted, uh, a great recommendationin your story and I'm gonna, read it
and let you know on Analite that, thatI read it, um, and what I thought.
Mm-hmm.
So I think, um, overall, just whatI learned was just like the, um,
(29:52):
the desire that readers have to.
First of all to likewanna create new spaces.
I think there's a real demandthere and just their passion
also for, um, for this hobby.
Um, essentially like some, it,it's something that like really
like improves our quality of life.
(30:13):
Uh, and I think it's, um, like I said,I think it's the best, uh, you know,
Community and I guess in the parlance ofbusiness, I mean, it's like the best sort
of group of consumers I think there isto like, work with and work for because
they're so passionate about and love.
(30:36):
Um, love this product,love this product of books.
Mm-hmm.
Alexandra (30:42):
Oh my gosh.
I love it.
So what's something that you didn'texpect you would get out of, italic type
Emily (30:53):
in a good way or a bad way?
Alexandra (30:55):
You know what, honestly, both.
Why not?
Emily (31:00):
Because there's like unexpected challenges and surprisingly good things.
Mm-hmm.
I would say one of the.
Unexpected challenges that weencountered, um, that we were maybe
a little bit naive about going into.
It was some of the difficultyaround book data that exists.
(31:21):
Mm.
Um, so I think, we had sort of.
Thought, oh, it'll just be like reallyeasy to get, really high quality book
data and covers and have that all matchup to the ISBNs and the authors and
the titles and everything like that.
And, um, that was a bittrickier to navigate than we
(31:42):
realized, uh, in terms of.
How to, um, ingest and create, a databasethat ha that's gonna have everything
that readers are searching for.
Uh, and, and we're still wor and, we'vegotten to a place where, it's good, but
the data work is gonna continue to besomething that we have to work on because,
(32:06):
uh, For example, we wanna get to a placewhere you can, , search for a title and
see all the different additions that areunder that one title, but that there's
some like structure and hierarchy there.
Every individual title might have 10,12 ISBNs that, that go along with that.
So it's a little bit of a,complicated area to, to try to
(32:31):
work through and, and organize.
Mm-hmm.
So that I think is just one ofthe unexpected things that we
encountered as we were developingand building the platform.
Um, something surprising in a goodway, I think is, when we started, uh,
working on a TA type, um, it was beforethe pandemic, uh, and then the pandemic
(32:56):
happened and I think it changed readingbehaviors in some interesting ways.
We did a survey, uh, Early in this year,in January called, state of the Reader
and we're actually gonna do, do this, uh,state of the reader survey, uh, annually.
But we wanted to learn likehow people's reading habits
(33:16):
had changed during the pandemic.
And we found thatoverwhelmingly, uh, like 80.
Plus percent of our respondents saidthat they were reading a lot more,
and only 7% of people said that theywere reading less during the pandemic.
And I think one of the things thatreally fueled that was, um, I've
seen a big rise in audiobooks.
Um, and I think when we firststarted working on Ital type, we had.
(33:42):
Conceived of it being something that wasgonna be more focused on physical books.
And I still prefer my, youknow, my, my format preference
is to read a physical book.
I like the tactile, physical experience.
I do have an e-reader.
I do read on that sometimes.
(34:02):
Um, I don't do audiobooks asmuch, but I know that a lot of
people are really bringing moreaudiobooks into the mix right now.
And so something that we made a decisionto, um, to change a little bit as we
were going along developing was to.
Give more autonomy to the readerand the user in terms of having
(34:26):
to be more format agnostic.
So Atal type is for people who lovephysical books and if they read on an
e-reader and if they do audio books,like, so we have an, you can track
pages, but we also have an optionto toggle, to have a percentage.
So you can, do a page numberor you can do a percentage.
Um, we have, we're trying to make iteven easier to, uh, If you're listening
(34:50):
to something like take notes on
on your book board, if you'relistening to the book, um, making
it so that you can tag books indifferent ways in the platform.
If so that you can say this was aphysical copy, this was an audiobook.
If somebody wants tokeep track of the format.
That, that would be just an, an exampleof something, you know, we've learned
(35:13):
along the way that we've incorporatedinto how we've continued to develop.
Mm,
Alexandra (35:21):
I love that so much and it, this sounds so surface level,
but I love how much you care.
About the reader.
I know that's so obvious.
I almost feel silly saying that, butit's you care so much about the reader
experience and again, I just, there isn'ta lot of online platforms that really
(35:41):
care about it, so I just, I love it.
It just makes me so happyand I'm really excited to get
more involved with you guys.
So.
I wanna start asking some likebookish questions and about the books
you read and your favorite books.
Okay.
So what books are youreading right now or book.
Emily (36:02):
Well, I'm always reading a couple of books at the same time.
So I mentioned a little bit, um, Ihave a bit of a book club, uh, got
bit, little bit of a book club bug,uh, that hit me, several years ago.
And so in parallel todeveloping a talent type.
Um, I've also, um, just gotten more andmore involved in the book club world
(36:26):
and actually now I'm a professionalbook club facilitator, so, a person
who gets paid to leave book clubs isnot something I would have necessarily
thought, but it's been a reallyinteresting and rewarding and fulfilling
side gig that compliments italic type.
I'm.
In as a participant, a couple book clubs.
I lead, um, about fourbook clubs professionally.
(36:48):
I'll be honest, it's probablyone too many book clubs.
I think I might be a little bit at mythreshold, but, so I do read, several
books, sort of at the same time.
Uh, often.
Right now I can tell you I'mreading, um, Mary Jane for my
original Chicago book Club.
I'm reading the Dawn of Everything,um, by David Weg Grow and David
(37:10):
Graver, uh, A New History of Humanity.
And I am reading S P Q RA History of Ancient Rome.
Alexandra (37:19):
Wow.
Oh my goodness.
Uh,
Emily (37:21):
so both, both those two last books are, are big long history books.
I'm not sure why I decided to read.
To 700 page history books,like at the same time.
But, but that is what happens.
Sometimes the librarydictates, you know what I mean?
Like I got, you get your libraryholds in and it's just like, ah,
(37:42):
this is what's happening now.
So, uh, so yeah, I read a mix ofeverything, um, fiction, you know,
novels, literary fiction, Non-fiction.
I really like history.
Um, I like reading likepop science type books.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of like, I likenatural science stuff too.
Biology.
Um, and yeah, like I said, I, you know,one of my original kind of thrusts that I
(38:09):
can remember as a young person and todayis just like love learning about new shit.
Can I say new shit on the podcast?
I just love learning.
Yeah.
I just love, learning new things.
Uh, so I, what did I finishjust recently and I'm, I'm
looking at my italic type cue.
Yes.
Uh, I just finished, oh, I just finishedthe other day, the Death of Vivek Oje
Alexandra (38:33):
you ever read that?
Oh my gosh.
I wanna read that book very, very
Emily (38:37):
much.
I'm gonna recommend it to you now.
Uh, it was excellent.
It was really, really good.
Um, and I just, uh, I also justread The Body Keeps the Score.
I dunno if you ever readthat one, but also Nice
Alexandra (38:49):
on my bookshelf.
That is definitely a bookI really need to read
Emily (38:54):
at some point in my life.
Yeah.
So, um, yeah, a real, a real mix.
I
Alexandra (38:59):
love it.
And so what's a genre you alwaysloved and what's a genre you're, you
started loving and you're like, oh,I didn't expect myself to love this.
Emily (39:11):
Interesting.
I mentioned my first, Real powerfulreading experiences as a kid.
Um, was with my dad andlike Lord of the Rings.
And so I've always loved fantasy.
In fact, uh, the, um, the juniorhigh book club that I mentioned
in sixth grade, it was a fantasy.
It was specifically a fantasy book club.
And then, Uh, in seventh gradethere was a boat on if we should
(39:35):
continue to be fantasy or if itshould just be regular book club.
And I was the only person thatvoted for fantasy book club.
, I've always loved, I've alwaysloved fantasy and a genre
that I didn't expect to love,
I always like to keep an open mind.
A lot of people, um, I think havea lot of rules of like, oh, I never
(39:58):
read this, or I only read whatever.
I'll try anything.
And I think that there by and largeis always something to learn from
a book, even if you don't like it.
Why don't you like it?
Those are interesting thingsto, think about and examine.
And there have been several times in bookclubs where I've gone into a discussion,
(40:19):
um, not particularly liking the book on myown, but coming out of a discussion, um,
appreciating a lot more things about itthat I didn't get, but other people did,
and that, that made me sort of reevaluate.
Uh, My opinion.
Um, so I love it when that happens.
(40:39):
Those are like the best, uh, best moments.
Um, and so I can't really name likea specific genre that like, I like
now, but I didn't think I would.
I will say that I'm not thebiggest romance or romcom reader.
However, in, in one of my book clubsa couple years ago, we read, um,
(41:00):
Exotic stories for Punjabi widows.
Oh God.
Ugh.
I'm not gonna remember the author'sname, but, but I, which I feel bad about,
but I will say, um, this book, eroticStories for Punjabi Widows was excellent.
And like, I, you know, itis sort of, it is a rom con.
(41:21):
I didn't think I was gonnaparticularly like it, but.
I was really, really surprised.
It's all about, um, it's all about thePunjabi community in London and, uh, this
group of ladies that like gets togetherin like a, old community annex to like
write robotic fiction short storiesand like read them to each other and
(41:43):
it was, And it was just, and and, andthere was so much interesting stuff in
there about, like I said, I love learningabout like other cultures and religions
and people and all that was in there.
And I think that's just an example ofyou never know and you should always try.
Alexandra (41:57):
I am writing this down cuz that sound sounds, um, that.
Sounds like the sweetest story.
That sounds so freaking good.
I love it.
It was really, love it.
Oh my gosh.
So I selfishly wanna know, butI'm sure our listeners wanna know.
(42:18):
Let's just, cuz I mean, shoot, Ihave like 20, 20 favorite books.
But let's make this simple for everyoneand make sure we're not but what are
your, let's say like top five favorites,maybe like that first come to mind.
Emily (42:34):
This is a hard
Alexandra (42:34):
question.
I know.
It's really, yeah.
Trust me.
I, but I'm like, you know, I, Ialmost, I wanna, I wanna selfishly know
like, what your favorite books are.
I always love adding to my list.
Emily (42:46):
Okay.
What are my favorite books?
Um, all right.
I am gonna start with, uh,the Power by Naomi Alderman.
Mm.
Uh, I've read that one several times.
I love it because I love thinking about,um, I love thinking about like, alternate,
(43:11):
alternate universes, alternate histories.
Like this question of like, whatif, um, so in the power, uh, the
premise is essentially women discoverone day that they have this like,
um, you know, Physical capacity todevelop electricity in their bodies
that can like shoot out of them.
(43:31):
So like essentially what happens whenwomen can physically dominate men?
What happens to society?
You know, we often talk about like,oh, if women, you know, were in charge
or ran things, it would be better.
Um, you know, and yes or noin different sort of ways.
But this book asks like a reallyinteresting question and, and the,
you know, and just about how, um,in some ways, yes, in some ways,
(43:52):
no, you know, you know, women.
Aren't good or bad, justlike men aren't good or bad.
Like it'd be a, it'd be sort ofa mix of like some good things
would happen and, and some, andsome bad things would happen.
Just that it's not really,it's about power, uh, more
than it is about anything else.
And so I, I think thatbook is really interesting.
Um, other favorite books?
(44:14):
Well, we were talking aboutme a little bit and one Q 84.
Is one of my favorite books of all time.
That's one of the most memorablerecent like adult reading
experiences that I can remember.
In a previous job, this was, um, I.
You know, six or seven years ago,I, we have like a winter break, uh,
(44:38):
off from, from the, from, uh, thatjob and just for two days straight.
Like, honestly, all I,I, I just read that book.
Like I woke up, I read that book all day.
I went to sleep.
I woke up again the next day,just kept on reading that book.
It was like, The best, honestly.
Um, that book is so amazing andI'm such a big Murakami fan.
(45:01):
Uh, so that's definitely oneof the big all-time favorites.
Another favorite of mine that's,that's standing out is, um, a
book called Dalva by Jim Harrison.
Uh, and, uh, I love that onebecause, It's just so unexpected.
(45:23):
Um, it's about, uh, a woman in herforties just sort of like figuring
her life out, but, and written by aman, but in such a, astonishing sort
of way, it's just like so, so good.
One thing that I really appreciate,is I love finding hidden gems.
(45:45):
I love like combing the back list.
There, there's so much discussion thatgets dominated about the new releases
and I, and I understand why that's thecase, but it, that doesn't necessarily
reflect like what it is that peopleare reading and enjoying and loving.
And so that's, that's my, my, my personal.
(46:09):
What really lights me up is likefinding something like, older
that is like so, so cool.
Um, couple other older hiddengem type books that I'll mention.
One is called Ruby FruitJungle by Rita May Brown.
It was really popular inthe seventies actually.
My mom recommended it to me andit's one of the, it's sort of
(46:30):
Like a lesbian version of Catcherand the Rye, but like better.
And, but it's from the earlyseventies and, uh, just really, really
good and, and really interesting.
Um, and, and, and groundbreaking,certainly for the time.
Uh, so that's Ruby Fruit Jungle.
And then the last one I'll mention isa book called Beer in the Snooker Club.
(46:55):
Um, by an Egyptian author whosename I'm gonna pronounce very badly.
Waguih Ghali uh, and that's almostcertainly not how you pronounce that
name, but the book is incredible.
It's, um, he wrote it in 1964,but it, you read it and it's like
it could have been written today.
(47:15):
It's about, um, Post-ColonialEgypt in the 1950s.
Also, again, sort of a catcher in the ryetype five, but it's a coming of age story,
uh, and about, this young man who istrying to, navigate the changes that are
going on in society and like, wanting morethings to change, but also getting really
disillusioned by hypocrisy and greed.
(47:38):
And so, yeah, nothing similarat all to what's going on today.
Um, and, uh, Also just,uh, really, really good.
So those are some of my favorites.
Alexandra (47:49):
I love it.
Wait, so the last one isbeer In the what Club?
Beer in, in
Emily (47:55):
the Snooper Club.
Alexandra (47:56):
Snooper club.
Okay.
Yeah, because I'm likealso writing these down.
I'm like, okay, I wannamake sure I spelled that.
I, I love that.
I also love, I really want to like getinto your opinion on that because on the,
um, on the aspect of like, these super.
Like, I don't know, books that havebeen on like the New York Times
(48:18):
bestseller list for like too many weeks.
And I'm like, okay, well I don't evenknow if I wanna read you because I
just feel like you're too hyped up.
And I feel like there are so manybooks that I love that are so either
like underrated or I'm like, whyis no one talking about this book?
So like, is there a book that.
(48:39):
Is also on that list for you.
You're like, why is no onetalking about this book?
I mean,
Emily (48:47):
I guess, I think maybe some of the ones that I've, I've
mentioned are, um, I'm looking, whyis no one talking about this book?
Let's see.
I don't know.
I dunno if there's like a specific title.
I think like there's, there's,um, there's just so many great
books, I guess is what I'll say.
(49:09):
Like what I, what happens to mein almost every conversation I
have with a reader is someone'slike, oh, have you read this yet?
And 70% of the time, my answer is no.
You know what I mean?
Because like, Um, there are so many moreamazing books that are worth reading than
I'm gonna be able to read in my lifetime.
And that's just a fact.
And so what we read and like whenand why and how, I think really
(49:33):
depends more on like the socialcontext or, or like the, um, the
world context of like what's going on.
Then, then it does anything else.
And so that's like a big part ofwhat we're trying to do with italic
type is to say that, for readerslike us, the big problem is not,
I don't know what to read next.
My problem is I have likea hundred books on MyQ.
(49:56):
Oh, there's a million things thatI want to read, what, so of all
the things that I'm interestedin reading, what do I read next?
And so how do we make help peoplemake those decisions based on,
their connections based on what'sgoing on in the world around them
based on like, you know, otherinterests and things like that.
I think.
Like 80% of the books that Ilove aren't talked about enough
(50:17):
online, but, for that reason.
But that doesn't mean that they're notamazing and, and worth talking about.
I just think that it's unlikely thatwe're gonna have, you know, everyone
be talking about all the great bookslike at any given time, you know?
And another thing that, um, Youknow, I just, I think there's like
(50:40):
a little bit of tension around is,and again, I understand why like the
new releases and the book publicitydrive is sort of in this one way.
But when I see things like, here are thefive books coming out in May that you have
to read right now, I'm like, Well, I'mnot gonna read, I'm not gonna read the
five new releases coming outta, may, may.
Maybe I'll read some of them at somepoint in my life, like in a year or
(51:04):
two if they come up in a book club orif a friend tells me to or whatever.
Um, but I think this idea thatyou have to read everything like
right now, like when it comes outor you're gonna miss it or it's
whatever, is, is sort of not my style.
Alexandra (51:22):
I so resonate with that and something I've really been like
loving and kind of like giving myselfgrace for is like reading a book
when your soul is ready to read it.
I was in this like TonyMorrison hole like, a year ago
and I was beating myself up.
(51:42):
For, not understanding.
I know like in a college class weread jazz and I just didn't get it.
I was so out.
I just, but then I read it.
I was just, I was in love with it.
I loved every single Tony Morrison bookI've read so far, but it's because like
I was ready to read it now, and I just, Iso agree with that because I don't think
(52:07):
it's fair or conducive to like push.
Books onto people.
It's almost like you have to watch thismovie or you have to listen to this,
but maybe it's like a really, like,books are a whole visceral experience,
at least for us, bookish loversand like also just sensitive women.
It's like any kind of,um, influx of information.
(52:29):
It's just, I think books come to us whenour soul's ready to read them for sure.
So I, I really resonate with that.
Emily (52:35):
I totally agree with that.
And I, but I, and I wouldalso add too that, yes.
It's about like giving yourselflike the time and space for
like, when you're ready.
Um, and that's actually why, like oneof the features we have on type, we
have a paused shelf because . Sometimesyou just need to pause a book and
like, you weren't feeling it like,For whatever reason that moment.
(52:57):
But you might come back to it like ayear later or someone says like, oh
yeah, you should like try that again.
Oh yeah, I'll give it a try again.
There's been lots of times whereI wasn't feeling something like in
a, I tried a particular book andthen tried it again a few years later
and then I really got into it more.
Um, but I think that, inaddition to that, it's not
like it matters more to me if.
(53:21):
You someone I know, a friend of minesays like, Emily, I just finished this.
You're gonna love it.
Like, you should definitely read it.
Okay.
That's gonna get like prioritized, inmy queue because I know you, I'm, I wanna
connect with books like, Um, that's,that's something that I'm like, yeah,
I'm gonna, I'll, I'll, I'll read thatin the next couple books, but, somebody
(53:43):
that I d you know, some, you know,random list or some, a media outlet or.
A random, some other influenceror whatever, like just saying
this book, this book, this bookis everywhere, or whatever.
That's not really gonna do it forme in the same way as somebody I
know and care about telling me.
(54:03):
Yeah.
as in the same way you were sayinglike, you should, you should watch this
movie, you should listen to this song.
Um, well, who is telling it thatto you I think is really important.
Alexandra (54:12):
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And now I'm also really, when yousay , I actually follow recommendations
of people I really care about and Ialso even respect and, um, I relate to
their, um, their, what was I gonna say?
Some people recommend you a book.
You're like, hell yes.
Some do.
(54:33):
You're like, uh, notmy style, but love you.
But how do we put that into one word?
But I've been really into, andalso honoring like the long
captions that people write.
Mm-hmm.
At first I'm like, oh, I don't know.
I don't wanna write all this.
Are people gonna read it?
And then actually when I.
The friends I've made on bookInstagram, when the beautiful long
(54:54):
captions they read about books.
I'm like, that actually now has mesold and running to the bookstore
and has me embracing even my,my love and my um, my passion for
writing, cuz I'm a writer as well.
And, but then also I'm eager toshare this beautiful vulnerable.
In this even visceral reactionI had to this book that are also
(55:15):
getting at people to love it.
And that's where I'm finding like mm-hmm.
I'm relating to people andreading experiences so much more.
So if you could give someone a book totell them that you love them, whether
it's romantic interest, whether it's asibling or a family member, or even if
it's a friend, what book would it be?
(55:38):
A
Emily (55:38):
book that says, I love you.
That's a very interesting question.
Mm-hmm.
Um, not a book that I love per se.
Alexandra (55:52):
Is that right?
I guess so.
, it totally depends.
The answers have been,completely different.
I know one was too a friend, some peoplehave said to romantic interest to kind of
understand like their humor, who they are.
Um,
Emily (56:06):
okay.
Um, Let's see.
I think I would give, this ismaybe gonna be a funny answer.
Um, I would give people, uh, the book,I contain multitudes by Ed Young.
Uh, which is all about, uh, ourmicrobiomes that, that live inside of us,
(56:28):
and the idea that we have like, Millionsand millions, literally of other species
of animals that live inside of us andhave evolved with us, and that that's an
important part of how our bodies work.
Um, I've read that book a few times.
It always blows my mind.
(56:50):
Um, and I think it's one of the most like.
Eyeopening and Awakening, books.
Oh, and I'm gonna say one more too.
Um, I would say in addition to eyecontain multitudes, I would also
give, um, on Being Mortal by Agai, uh,which is also a really fabulous book
(57:12):
about, uh, What happens to us as weage and the trade offs that people,
need to consider around quality oflife and like medical intervention.
I make my parents read it.
I made a lot of people read that book.
Um, cuz I just think it's, that's also,um, a really, really important one.
(57:33):
I guess what those, what those two booksboth have in common is, um, I think the
more we can understand about ourselvesand how our bodies and brains work, um,
the better we can make decisions abouthow to lead happier and healthier lives.
Mm.
Alexandra (57:51):
Oh my God.
Those books sound amazing.
I'm so excited to add them to the list.
Ah, so final question.
Okay, so I always ask this at theend, and I know you've, touched
upon this, but I don't know,maybe you'll answer differently.
(58:12):
So why do you, Reid?
Emily (58:17):
Why do I read?
There, I, we did talk a littlebit about this, like learning and
discovery and curiosity element.
I would also, add to that, that,especially today, In today's world, and
I think it's only getting more important,, we are living in a world of, increasingly.
(58:38):
Distracting media environments.
We have information flying at usfrom all different sorts of ways.
We get pings and dings and notifications.
We have this, infinite scroll , sortof universe, um, where we can be just,
endlessly distracted however we want.
We are always in a state ofexperiencing, Prefrontal cortex overload.
(59:01):
We feel like we're, frazzledand being pulled in a lot of
different directions because we are.
Um, and because of that, I think readinga book provides, just such a necessary
like reprieve and release from that.
I think that there's a.
(59:22):
Meditative quality to, um,focusing your attention in,
one way and in one direction.
And even if you do it, even ifit's 15 minutes, 20 minutes, even
if it's a short period of time.
Just doing that for, fora short period of time.
And, um, I sometimes feel likewhen I'm reading, I can almost feel
(59:47):
my brain like repairing itself.
Like I feel it feels good likeup there, you know what I mean?
I feel, my neuronsrepairing and reconnecting.
Um, and so that's another, uh, I think.
Important benefit and just, andreally, important value that reading
(01:00:09):
brings to us, and that is getting,I think, even more important.
Alexandra (01:00:13):
Oh my gosh.
Beautiful answer.
Beautiful conversation.
I feel like.
Oh my gosh, I'm so, it's like Ihave a million more questions for
you that I'm definitely, I reallywanna pick your brain about.
You're awesome.
I'm so excited about whatyou're doing in the world.
I'm so excited to get to know youmore and to dive deeper into italic
(01:00:35):
type and just thank you so, so much.
Thank
Emily (01:00:38):
you.
Alexandra (01:00:39):
Of course.
Hello.
Hello, you guys.
Thank you so, so much for listeningand coming back to Daugird book club.
Your support, your listenership,your love means the world to me.
And as I said earlier, it is so freakinggood to be back and just doing this.
(01:01:01):
So again, if you haven't already makesure to give me a follow on instagram
at @dogeared.bookclub and follow forall the silliness and book reviews
and updates on episodes and guestsand all the beautiful things to come.
And of course, make sure to giveitalic type of follow on Instagram ad
italic, underscore type underscore,and click the link in the bio and
(01:01:24):
explore how you can connect with thattalent type connect with the community.
Participate in the commune.
Community participate in themonthly state of the reader.
And I am just really, really excited.
I love you guys so, so much.
And i will see you guys next
time
Oh, my God.
Hello, you guys.
And welcome to DogEared Book Club.
I am your host, Alexandra Shelly andI can't even handle myself right now.
Oh my goodness.
I am back.
I am back recordingfor dogeared book club.
I have missed this so, so much.
(00:24):
And if you are new here at the mission ofDogEared Book Club is to connect you to
books, thought leaders and avid readers.
And this has become such a richcommunity of bringing together.
Not only incredible authorsand content creators on
Bookstagram, but also just really.
Thoughtful intelligent, creativebad-ass humans who have so much to
(00:51):
say, and to give whether that's putinto a book and shared with the world.
Or their work is inspired by literatureby reading by a particular author.
And I am here to connect everyone to theirmagic, to the magic of books of readers.
(01:11):
And if you are new here again,thank you so, so much for finding me
whether you found me on Bookstagramor you found me on the plethora of
podcasts, whatever you're looking for.
And if you have been followingme for quite some time, I cannot.
Thank you enough for yoursupport for your patients.
(01:32):
As you know, I have put DogEared BookClub on the back burner for quite a bit.
I've been building my psychic mediumshipbusiness, and I really had to put
everything into it when it came tobuilding my podcast for that to building
my business and scaling out my servicesand building out my website and really
(01:52):
everything that comes with being abusiness owner, it is quite wild.
And now that I feel like I'vedone everything I could to
really put my business out there.
I am now.
I left with some freetime and you know what?
God damn it.
I am going to go back todogeared book club because.
It is just my heart andmy soul and my love.
(02:15):
And I am just so, so excited to be back.
I mean, I'm really excitedto also introduce you guys to
this beautiful human Emily.
And she is the founder andcreator of italic type.
If you do not follow her and I tally type,
I don't walk, run to.
Italic type and make an account right now.
(02:38):
Pretty much the best wayto describe italic type is.
It is a modern day, actually.
Incredible robust and.
Just.
I sorry.
I wanted to say actually useful,but then it felt very insulting
to good reads because I don't know.
(03:00):
I just don't really use good reads.
It's not as appealing to me.
It's never really appealed to me, butwhen I stumbled upon italic type and
I actually got to making an accountand exploring it, but also talking
to Emily about her mission and whyshe created italic type, it is.
So bad-ass, it is everythingthat we need as a reader.
(03:23):
And I love the mission.
She has also, I'm going to say this.
I'm going to do my best to keep my cool.
But she is.
Is a professional book club facilitator.
I actually can't, I'm so manythings I'm like, okay, why.
(03:44):
Am I doing the wrong job?
Like, am I in the wrong?
Like, metaverse like I do, Ineed to be different person.
With like, uh, like, oh my God, like,I am so obsessed with this career.
I'm like, wait, I'm sorry.
Should I not be doing psychic mediumship?
And like, just be a professionalbook club facilitator.
Like what.
Sorry.
(04:04):
I just think it's the bestthing in the entire world.
So anyways.
Emily and I chat really.
Without her mission with italic typeand the state of the reader and what
she observed in the reading communityand what she really seeks to bring
with italic type and how to not only.
Add something to the community.
(04:26):
But also bring back whatwe have been missing.
I think one of my favorite aspects,which we will hear, in Emily's love
and description of her mission foritalic type is it's me for the reader.
We're not trying to runacross targeted ads.
(04:47):
And be distracted in any other way,besides reaching our reading goals
or exploring the next author wewant to pick up or the next book.
And what's happened is, as we know, isso many websites and especially good
reads is it's become a place of a lotof targeted ads and just nonsense.
And I.
(05:07):
Maybe that's one of the reasons whyI've never really used it because
it just especially I'm so ADHD.
I already read to.
Health my ADHD.
And then when I go onto a websitethat's for reading and then I get an ad
about nail Polish and then weight loss.
I'm like, whoa, wait.
I'm so confused.
I don't even paint my nails.
(05:28):
I did not least I donot need to lose weight.
Like what's happening.
And I don't even know where I'm goingwith this, but as you guys know, and
if you guys have been following me orlistening to me, you know, my silliness.
But.
I also love.
What Emily and her team aretrying to accomplish because.
Not only are there lists thatthey feature are so unique.
(05:52):
They also bring a lot of awareness,which I love in the book community.
Whether it's black history month or,LGBTQ pride month or Hispanic authors
or, underground authors that we do notknow yet, and they're underrated or any
topics that need to come to the surface.
But also she really helps smallpublishers and new authors
(06:15):
come to the surface as well.
I also love what she does.
She does his newsletter called thestate of the reader and it kind of
gives everyone an update of whateveryone is into what everyone's.
One's turning to, and it just makesyou feel really excited to be a
part of this italic type community.
And it's just intimate and wonderfuland it's sleek, it's modern.
(06:39):
I'm just really, really obsessedwith what Emily is doing.
And of course we get intothe mission of italic type.
We get into her inspiration.
We get into her favorite books.
We also get into.
You know what inspired her tocreate italic type, which I know,
obviously there may be some obviousreasons what it comes to make a
(07:02):
site that's better than good reads.
Wow.
I'm just really I'm reallyjust shitting on good reason.
I feel got a bad, but also whatever.
Whatever.
And I does really, reallylove this conversation.
I walked away.
Feeling so inspired and so enrichedtalking to Emily, and I'm just really,
(07:22):
really excited to be connected with her.
And I'm really, really excited.
That the book community has her.
She is.
A beautiful human and addingsuch magic to the book community.
So anyways, make sure to give Emilya follow on Instagram at italic type.
I'll put that in the show notes.
Also make sure to go to italictype so you can create your account
(07:47):
and join the community today.
And of course, make sure to givethis podcast a follow and share
with your loved ones or whoeveris interested in the book magic.
And of course, make sure to give me afollow on Instagram at @dogeared.bookclub.
And i am so excited toget into this episodes.
let's get right into it
Oh my gosh.
Anyways, thank you so much for coming on.
(08:11):
It is so amazing to connect with youand I've really been admiring it italic
type, you know, as like a beautiful
just, what do you call it?
It's funny cuz I sometimes still feellike a newbie in the bookish book
Instagram space, but honestly it's socool because this is such like a gem of a
(08:33):
community and every single time I connectwith anyone like yourself, it just.
Literally, it makes my day and it remindsme time and time and again, like why I'm
so involved and why I love just puttingmy heart and soul into this community
and learning not only about the, thefeedback I get, but also learning.
(08:57):
Why other heart and souls are in this too.
And it's just, it just makesthis, this a big love pod.
I love it.
I don't even know if that madesense, but thank you so much.
Emily (09:09):
My pleasure.
Um, I'm so excited toget to chat with you and.
Uh, and what you were saying totallymakes sense to me because I think readers
are the best people and it doesn'teven matter what you read necessarily.
I just find that readers have such apassion for books and such a passion to
connect with other people about them,that it really just facilitates Yeah.
(09:33):
Like a big glove pot.
And it's, I think, the best community tobe a part of and work with and serve and
that's really what we're trying to dowith italic type is create new technology
and communities to help readers livetheir best book lives, really, and make
(09:53):
discovering, reading, learning from,and connecting to other people about
books like really easy and joyful.
Alexandra (10:00):
Yes.
Oh my gosh, I love that.
Live their best book life.
That needs to be a sticker
Emily (10:06):
or something.
It sticker on a to bag.
Yeah.
Alexandra (10:12):
Yes.
So for any listeners that haveno heck in clue who you are,
no clue what italic type is.
Please introduce yourselfand introduce italic
Emily (10:24):
type Good.
Well, so I'm Emily Aler and I livein Chicago, and I'm the c e o and
Co-founder of Italic Type, which isa new platform for book tracking,
notetaking, and discussion all aroundbooks and the people who love them.
We are providing an alternativeto good reads, uh, when it comes
(10:46):
to, a new community, a new way totrack your books, vlog your books.
Um, and, uh, one of the things thatwe really focus on is helping readers
cultivate deeper connections to the booksthat they read and to their communities.
So I think reading books is one of thebest ways, maybe the best way we can learn
(11:06):
more about ourselves, learn more aboutthe world, learn more about each other,
um, and we're trying to, facilitatethose connections and, maximize the
intrinsic rewards that we feel whenwe, get a great book recommendation.
When we recommend a book to somebodyelse and they read it and they
love it and they tell us about it.
All of those little moments we wantto elevate and bring to the forefront.
(11:30):
And then we want to also, um, Minimizeall of the sometimes negative stuff
that can come along with readingtoo, the pressure or the guilt or the
competition and those kinds of elements.
So we're really, um, superlaser focused on, a reader,
first reader centric mentality.
How can we create the best possibleexperience for readers to have?
Alexandra (11:56):
Mm, This is like the dreamiest dreamiest platform ever.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so excited that you exist and I'mjust, I'm just even really curious.
Cause I know we'll get into the bookishstuff, but even as a book entrepreneur,
I'm so eager to learn, so what did youfind that was missing from Goodreads
(12:20):
that you feel like you're filling the
Emily (12:22):
gap?
Yeah.
Um, so Good Reads obviously hasbeen around for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
And for many people, um, it works welland they like it and that's great.
Uh, I think though that there's ameaningful slice of the audience
and myself included, that felt like,good reach just isn't that good.
(12:47):
It's , it's fine, but it's,um, A little bit cluttered.
Uh, there's a lot going on.
There's a lot of feature bloat.
Um, there's that big social feedthat sort of dominates the whole
experience, uh, that has like all ofyour, Facebook friends from 2008,
sort of like poured on over into it.
(13:08):
Um, many of those people you maynot care about what they're reading.
And so, uh, overall I feel like for theuser experience, there's a lack of.
Focus, a lack of clarity and simplicity.
It's a very noisy environment.
And then also, um, there's a lotof, um, sponsored activity on there.
(13:30):
There's a lot of ads, there's alot of sponsored posts, and that
really gets to, um, the idea that.
On Good reads, readers are theusers, but they're not the customers.
Right?
Readers use it for free, but the customersare the publishers that are paying for
the sponsored posts for the big book ads.
And so you're never quite sure youknow what you're, if what you're
(13:53):
seeing, is real or not is authentic.
Is trust, is is worthy of trust.
And so there's a, a trustelement that I think is sort of
lacking on good reads as well.
Um, and then the final thing is that GoodReads is owned by Amazon, um, and Amazon.
Amazon is Amazon, honest.
They do some good things.
(14:14):
They do some not so good things.
It's a huge, huge company.
And really the my thing with Amazonand readers is, um, that creating an
amazing technology experience for readersthat helps them live their best book.
Life is not Amazon's numberone business priority, right?
They're going to the moon, they're.
(14:35):
Doing whatever else that they're doing.
Serving readers is maybe their,I don't know, 215th business
priorities, something like that.
Yeah.
And so what we thought of was, well,what would it be like for a company
to have their number one businessgoal be just about serving readers?
What would that look like?
(14:56):
And that's the, the diff the maindifference I think there, and
that's what we're trying to do.
Alexandra (15:03):
My heart is singing.
Oh my gosh, yes.
I totally resonate with all of that.
I think that's why that's something I wasnever immediately drawn to good reads.
I know a lot of people are like,oh, I'd be checked out, whatever,
and I'm just like, and to meit feels just like another.
Place to just do stuff.
It doesn't actually addto my book experience when
Emily (15:26):
I feel like it's special or, um, I think like, uh, yeah, just,
it's just another place online.
It just looks like another, youknow, place like every other
digital space looks like online.
And, um, one of the words I useis, is like, Um, pleasant, right?
Mm-hmm.
So, so much of our, um, of ourinternet experiences, and I think
(15:48):
good reads included, they're justnot nice places to spend time with.
They're noisy, they're chaotic.
There's too much going on.
And so, um, we really wanted to takethe idea of like, Your cozy reading
nook in like this perfect library, youknow, sort of thing with like light
streaming in through the windows, andsort of translate that into the look and
(16:11):
feel of our design and our app so thatwhen you're spending time there, it's
like a very pleasant and thoughtful andlike nourishing place to spend time.
Alexandra (16:22):
Wow.
Ugh.
I love that.
Yes.
You've taken the literal experienceof reading and what it's.
What it is.
What it is like.
And you've put it on an online platform.
Yes.
And what it's supposed to be like.
Oh my gosh.
So take me back with sweet little Emily.
Of course, books have beensuch a big part of your life.
(16:46):
I really wanna learn about wherethis all started for you and Right.
Maybe it begins with.
A very memorable reading experienceor many, or maybe it was even
like not that long ago, but yes.
Take me back to Sure.
Where and when booksbegan to inspire you.
Emily (17:06):
Well, I've always been a really big reader, um, ever since I was a little kid.
Uh, I definitely caught the bugearly, uh, from my, both my parents
are big readers actually, but mydad really, um, he loves fantasy.
He loves Lord, the rings and whenI was young, like five or six.
He started reading The Hobbit to me.
(17:26):
And then eventually, took off, gotthe training wheels off and started
reading, fellowship on my own.
So we really shared a love of, thatthe trilogy together and then, Um, yeah.
And then so I've always been a big reader.
Uh, I was, um, actually a part of myjunior highs book club and, uh, which was
run by the librarian of our middle school.
(17:48):
And it was like me and all my bestfriends, it was like the most fun ever.
Uh, and, um, so yeah, definitely was oneof those kids, uh, always in the library.
Um, and then, in high school Iremember, reading, um, some of the
things that like really set me on fire.
Were discovering Tom Robbins, I don'tknow if you've ever read any of his work.
(18:11):
He's an author from like the seventies.
He wrote even Cowgirls Get the Blues.
Um, and that's like a sort of crazyfeminist western romp and that
I just remember that being one ofthose things where I was like, wow,
like this is really, really cool.
Um, And, uh, y you know, I, I basically,when I, um, when I got into college and
(18:36):
started working right after I had fellout of the habit of reading for pleasure,
and one day in my late twenties, Iwoke up one day and realized, I can't
remember the last time I read a novel.
Uh, this was a reallydisturbing thought to me.
And so I decided to start a book clubactually, with one of the friends that
I was in my junior high book club with.
(18:57):
They were like, oh, well thatwas really fun in junior high.
Maybe we should do that again.
And the purpose was really to help us.
Read more fiction, do more ofthe thing that we wanted to do,
but weren't doing on our own.
And, uh, so started that bookclub about 10 years ago now.
Uh, and things have just kind ofbeen going on, going ever since.
Alexandra (19:20):
Ugh, I love that so much.
I'm like, you know.
My heart is sad that I didn'tknow you in high school.
I was like, you know what, nowwe know each other cause Yeah.
We know each other.
, I was trying, like, something I'm honestlyworking on is like an interviewer,
like podcaster is to shut my mouthwhile you talk and not make noises.
(19:42):
But I like was so badly trying to containmyself when you were talking about
the book club with the librarian, ohGod, that is, So amazing and so cute.
I love it.
Emily (19:55):
Um, yeah, I just, you know, that really, um, that that book club
experience when I was in junior highreally fostered my, um, my love of
like, what it is to like, talk aboutbooks and discuss books and like,
just how fun and joyful that can be.
Alexandra (20:15):
Oh my gosh.
And I guess I wanna kind of tap intothis experience a little bit more.
So what, what did books mean to youand how that catapulted, I guess maybe
even on an emotional experience,because I know also those younger
(20:35):
years are such formative experiences.
Well,
Emily (20:39):
I, yeah, I, I think, um, What just drew me in so much.
Um, and, and why I've always loved it is,um, I, I'm a really curious person and I
just love learning about new places, newpeople, new stories, um, and, uh, and I
(21:04):
love traveling and I think that, like,you know, through a book, it, it is really
a form of travel, of like experienceand discovery of the world around you.
And so I think, um, You know, even as,as a young kid, that was always the
most, uh, exciting, you know, part of,uh, of reading was just like even, and,
(21:30):
and, and even, or maybe even, especiallywith fantasy too, because like, it
doesn't have to be a, a real place thatyou're discovering or learning about.
I mean, new worlds count too.
But that element of, um, being immersedin a different place, I think is.
Was one, is one of, it was one of the,I mean, is still a really powerful
motivator for me, but, but that'ssomething I can identify as a kid
(21:53):
that I was like very, um, drawn to.
I love
Alexandra (21:57):
that so much.
And so I know you kind of, I reallywant to hear about the origin story of
like when you came up with italic type.
Yeah.
And like how you brought that together.
Cuz I just, I don't know, again, evenwith me kind of bringing, DogEared
Book Club to Life, it's been likesuch an experience and I just.
(22:19):
As meeting a fellow book entrepreneur,I really wanna learn about how that came
Emily (22:25):
to life.
Oh, just it's like reallyeasy and seamless, right?
No, it's a journey.
Um, so how did this come about?
So I mentioned about 10 years ago,I started a book club in Chicago.
Mm-hmm.
And the point was to help people readmore fiction and emailed like a bunch of
people that I knew who wants to do this,and we've been going ever since actually.
(22:49):
So it's we have 70 people on the list now.
We have about like 15 peoplethat come to every meeting.
Uh, and as, the years went by and Iwas getting more involved in this book
club and leading it and growing it,um, I realized that there were so many
just really interesting and powerful.
(23:09):
Benefits that were comingout of this book club.
Not just the social accountabilityand motivation to read more.
Sometimes it's not, even if you love toread, it's not always easy to carve out
the time and, and to prioritize that.
The book club definitely helped with that.
But when you're reading to discuss withpeople, you're reading a little bit
more reflectively, you know, thinking toyourself, oh, what did I think about this?
(23:32):
Or what this characteris doing, et cetera.
When you're talking with otherpeople about the book, Um, you
always learn something new fromsomebody else's perspective.
Somebody always read somethingin a different way than you
did, or maybe you missed it.
Um, and so you're learningmore from other people.
And then finally, and maybe mostimportantly, it was this really amazing
(23:55):
conduit for friendships and relationships.
Cause you're getting to know peopleon a really, um, personal and
substantive level that you reallycan't replicate in other ways.
And especially I think, Not reallyonline, um, you know, in a, in a
more surface level sort of way.
And so one of my friends in the bookclub was joking to me and said like,
(24:19):
you know, I think in your thirties,uh, book clubs are the new bars.
Um, like, it's sort of like how, youknow, how do adults, um, make new friends?
And this was like a really, really,um, Important way and it just helps
you see, you know, another person'sperspective so much better too.
I think books, um, are act aslike a really interesting sort of
(24:42):
like conversation, like neutralconversation, like buffer object.
So that when if we're disagreeingabout something, about a book and
I say, oh, I interpreted it thisway cuz this is my life experience,
I'm not saying you're wrong.
I'm just saying this is what Ithought because this is my experience.
Mm-hmm.
And you might say, oh, interesting.
(25:04):
Right.
So it helps people I think, bea little bit less defensive and
like learn more from other people.
Okay.
So these are all the amazing insights andbenefits from book club and I just was
like obsessed with like thinking about.
Um, how do we get everyoneto do a book club?
How can we get everyone to havea great book club experience?
I'm pretty sure it's gonnasave democracy and save the
(25:26):
world, so let's try to do this.
And um, so it was, that was a reallybig part of the inspiration and
the motivation of thinking abouthow can we distill down those.
Benefits and make them moreaccessible to more people.
And that's one part of it.
Another part of it is, is goodreads like we talked about, and
just like, how come this is allthere is and couldn't it be better?
(25:49):
And don't readers deservesomething like a little bit better?
And then the third piece was, um,I heard, uh, the, the catalyst
really , okay, we're gonna startthis and actually do this thing.
Was, I was listening to a podcastand I heard an ad for Blinkist and
Blinkist, a subscription service.
Uh, and.
(26:10):
Basically what the ad saidtheir value proposition is.
Um, you know, reading isimportant, but you don't have time.
So now you don't have to, youcan sign up for Blankest for $16
a month and we'll send you thebullet point summaries of the book.
And I, I had a very visceral,uh, reaction to this idea.
(26:30):
I sort of took it, really personally,um, And it ha, it had a big
reaction to it because it was theexact opposite of what I wanted.
Now there's a market for that, you know?
Okay.
That's great that that's gonna besomething that appeals to some people.
I.
But it was the opposite of what I wanted.
I don't want something that likegets me out of having to read.
(26:50):
I want something that helps me, likemagnify all of like the benefits
that I get from it so that I feelmore incentivized to read more.
I wanna read more and engagemore with books, not less.
Um, and so that was when I, I, I thought,wow, How come startups are focused?
How come all the innovation and startupssort of energy that exists around books
(27:12):
are focused in these sort of shortcuttype ways and aren't really, um, about
serving readers, people who really, reallylove to read and and their interests.
And that's where I thoughtthe opportunity space was.
Mm.
Alexandra (27:28):
Oh my God, I, yeah, you saw me like totally reacting, Yeah.
I took it so personally.
Yeah, I, what was it?
There's another one I'm hearingabout where you take a screenshot
and it reads it to you.
Yeah, hey, I love that we are, cuz forpeople who say I don't know, There's
anyways, people who are not able to read abook but really, really want to, and want
(27:52):
to get the story and hear the story right.
Cool.
Great.
But it just, you're I, yes.
It totally takes away.
And I love how you said like the pointof reading is to get you into something
and this is something that's gettingyou literally out of the experience.
It's almost I want to eat my veggies.
(28:13):
You might as well justbreathe next to them.
And.
What has building the,italic community taught you?
Uh, well, we talked
Emily (28:24):
a little bit about this at the outset, but I think one of
the, the biggest things for me isjust, um, how great readers are.
I mean, I think like to be areader, there's a few things
that are true about you.
You're interested in learning aboutyourself, other people, about the
world, uh, you're, you value theexperience, having and developing
(28:46):
empathy and trying to learn more aboutother people's perspectives and put
yourself in other people's shoes.
Enjoying stories, and I thinkthere's also something inherently
reading is really interestingcuz it's, it is inherently social
and solitary at the same time.
Mm-hmm.
It's social in that we get recommendationsfrom other people and when we're done
(29:07):
with the book, we wanna talk about it.
But then we're reading alone.
And so I think readers have this bigdesire to want to like connect with
other people, find their book club.
I mean, that's really like the energythat's going on, um, on books, Instagram.
And I see a teletype reallyas a compliment to that.
Like sort of the, an on-ramp thatmight start on book Instagram, might
(29:30):
continue onto italic type whereyou say, okay, let's read this
book together and talk about it.
Okay.
You posted, uh, a great recommendationin your story and I'm gonna, read it
and let you know on Analite that, thatI read it, um, and what I thought.
Mm-hmm.
So I think, um, overall, just whatI learned was just like the, um,
(29:52):
the desire that readers have to.
First of all to likewanna create new spaces.
I think there's a real demandthere and just their passion
also for, um, for this hobby.
Um, essentially like some, it,it's something that like really
like improves our quality of life.
(30:13):
Uh, and I think it's, um, like I said,I think it's the best, uh, you know,
Community and I guess in the parlance ofbusiness, I mean, it's like the best sort
of group of consumers I think there isto like, work with and work for because
they're so passionate about and love.
(30:36):
Um, love this product,love this product of books.
Mm-hmm.
Alexandra (30:42):
Oh my gosh.
I love it.
So what's something that you didn'texpect you would get out of, italic type
Emily (30:53):
in a good way or a bad way?
Alexandra (30:55):
You know what, honestly, both.
Why not?
Emily (31:00):
Because there's like unexpected challenges and surprisingly good things.
Mm-hmm.
I would say one of the.
Unexpected challenges that weencountered, um, that we were maybe
a little bit naive about going into.
It was some of the difficultyaround book data that exists.
(31:21):
Mm.
Um, so I think, we had sort of.
Thought, oh, it'll just be like reallyeasy to get, really high quality book
data and covers and have that all matchup to the ISBNs and the authors and
the titles and everything like that.
And, um, that was a bittrickier to navigate than we
(31:42):
realized, uh, in terms of.
How to, um, ingest and create, a databasethat ha that's gonna have everything
that readers are searching for.
Uh, and, and we're still wor and, we'vegotten to a place where, it's good, but
the data work is gonna continue to besomething that we have to work on because,
(32:06):
uh, For example, we wanna get to a placewhere you can, , search for a title and
see all the different additions that areunder that one title, but that there's
some like structure and hierarchy there.
Every individual title might have 10,12 ISBNs that, that go along with that.
So it's a little bit of a,complicated area to, to try to
(32:31):
work through and, and organize.
Mm-hmm.
So that I think is just one ofthe unexpected things that we
encountered as we were developingand building the platform.
Um, something surprising in a goodway, I think is, when we started, uh,
working on a TA type, um, it was beforethe pandemic, uh, and then the pandemic
(32:56):
happened and I think it changed readingbehaviors in some interesting ways.
We did a survey, uh, Early in this year,in January called, state of the Reader
and we're actually gonna do, do this, uh,state of the reader survey, uh, annually.
But we wanted to learn likehow people's reading habits
(33:16):
had changed during the pandemic.
And we found thatoverwhelmingly, uh, like 80.
Plus percent of our respondents saidthat they were reading a lot more,
and only 7% of people said that theywere reading less during the pandemic.
And I think one of the things thatreally fueled that was, um, I've
seen a big rise in audiobooks.
Um, and I think when we firststarted working on Ital type, we had.
(33:42):
Conceived of it being something that wasgonna be more focused on physical books.
And I still prefer my, youknow, my, my format preference
is to read a physical book.
I like the tactile, physical experience.
I do have an e-reader.
I do read on that sometimes.
(34:02):
Um, I don't do audiobooks asmuch, but I know that a lot of
people are really bringing moreaudiobooks into the mix right now.
And so something that we made a decisionto, um, to change a little bit as we
were going along developing was to.
Give more autonomy to the readerand the user in terms of having
(34:26):
to be more format agnostic.
So Atal type is for people who lovephysical books and if they read on an
e-reader and if they do audio books,like, so we have an, you can track
pages, but we also have an optionto toggle, to have a percentage.
So you can, do a page numberor you can do a percentage.
Um, we have, we're trying to make iteven easier to, uh, If you're listening
(34:50):
to something like take notes on
on your book board, if you'relistening to the book, um, making
it so that you can tag books indifferent ways in the platform.
If so that you can say this was aphysical copy, this was an audiobook.
If somebody wants tokeep track of the format.
That, that would be just an, an exampleof something, you know, we've learned
(35:13):
along the way that we've incorporatedinto how we've continued to develop.
Mm,
Alexandra (35:21):
I love that so much and it, this sounds so surface level,
but I love how much you care.
About the reader.
I know that's so obvious.
I almost feel silly saying that, butit's you care so much about the reader
experience and again, I just, there isn'ta lot of online platforms that really
(35:41):
care about it, so I just, I love it.
It just makes me so happyand I'm really excited to get
more involved with you guys.
So.
I wanna start asking some likebookish questions and about the books
you read and your favorite books.
Okay.
So what books are youreading right now or book.
Emily (36:02):
Well, I'm always reading a couple of books at the same time.
So I mentioned a little bit, um, Ihave a bit of a book club, uh, got
bit, little bit of a book club bug,uh, that hit me, several years ago.
And so in parallel todeveloping a talent type.
Um, I've also, um, just gotten more andmore involved in the book club world
(36:26):
and actually now I'm a professionalbook club facilitator, so, a person
who gets paid to leave book clubs isnot something I would have necessarily
thought, but it's been a reallyinteresting and rewarding and fulfilling
side gig that compliments italic type.
I'm.
In as a participant, a couple book clubs.
I lead, um, about fourbook clubs professionally.
(36:48):
I'll be honest, it's probablyone too many book clubs.
I think I might be a little bit at mythreshold, but, so I do read, several
books, sort of at the same time.
Uh, often.
Right now I can tell you I'mreading, um, Mary Jane for my
original Chicago book Club.
I'm reading the Dawn of Everything,um, by David Weg Grow and David
(37:10):
Graver, uh, A New History of Humanity.
And I am reading S P Q RA History of Ancient Rome.
Alexandra (37:19):
Wow.
Oh my goodness.
Uh,
Emily (37:21):
so both, both those two last books are, are big long history books.
I'm not sure why I decided to read.
To 700 page history books,like at the same time.
But, but that is what happens.
Sometimes the librarydictates, you know what I mean?
Like I got, you get your libraryholds in and it's just like, ah,
(37:42):
this is what's happening now.
So, uh, so yeah, I read a mix ofeverything, um, fiction, you know,
novels, literary fiction, Non-fiction.
I really like history.
Um, I like reading likepop science type books.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of like, I likenatural science stuff too.
Biology.
Um, and yeah, like I said, I, you know,one of my original kind of thrusts that I
(38:09):
can remember as a young person and todayis just like love learning about new shit.
Can I say new shit on the podcast?
I just love learning.
Yeah.
I just love, learning new things.
Uh, so I, what did I finishjust recently and I'm, I'm
looking at my italic type cue.
Yes.
Uh, I just finished, oh, I just finishedthe other day, the Death of Vivek Oje
Alexandra (38:33):
you ever read that?
Oh my gosh.
I wanna read that book very, very
Emily (38:37):
much.
I'm gonna recommend it to you now.
Uh, it was excellent.
It was really, really good.
Um, and I just, uh, I also justread The Body Keeps the Score.
I dunno if you ever readthat one, but also Nice
Alexandra (38:49):
on my bookshelf.
That is definitely a bookI really need to read
Emily (38:54):
at some point in my life.
Yeah.
So, um, yeah, a real, a real mix.
I
Alexandra (38:59):
love it.
And so what's a genre you alwaysloved and what's a genre you're, you
started loving and you're like, oh,I didn't expect myself to love this.
Emily (39:11):
Interesting.
I mentioned my first, Real powerfulreading experiences as a kid.
Um, was with my dad andlike Lord of the Rings.
And so I've always loved fantasy.
In fact, uh, the, um, the juniorhigh book club that I mentioned
in sixth grade, it was a fantasy.
It was specifically a fantasy book club.
And then, Uh, in seventh gradethere was a boat on if we should
(39:35):
continue to be fantasy or if itshould just be regular book club.
And I was the only person thatvoted for fantasy book club.
, I've always loved, I've alwaysloved fantasy and a genre
that I didn't expect to love,
I always like to keep an open mind.
A lot of people, um, I think havea lot of rules of like, oh, I never
(39:58):
read this, or I only read whatever.
I'll try anything.
And I think that there by and largeis always something to learn from
a book, even if you don't like it.
Why don't you like it?
Those are interesting thingsto, think about and examine.
And there have been several times in bookclubs where I've gone into a discussion,
(40:19):
um, not particularly liking the book on myown, but coming out of a discussion, um,
appreciating a lot more things about itthat I didn't get, but other people did,
and that, that made me sort of reevaluate.
Uh, My opinion.
Um, so I love it when that happens.
(40:39):
Those are like the best, uh, best moments.
Um, and so I can't really name likea specific genre that like, I like
now, but I didn't think I would.
I will say that I'm not thebiggest romance or romcom reader.
However, in, in one of my book clubsa couple years ago, we read, um,
(41:00):
Exotic stories for Punjabi widows.
Oh God.
Ugh.
I'm not gonna remember the author'sname, but, but I, which I feel bad about,
but I will say, um, this book, eroticStories for Punjabi Widows was excellent.
And like, I, you know, itis sort of, it is a rom con.
(41:21):
I didn't think I was gonnaparticularly like it, but.
I was really, really surprised.
It's all about, um, it's all about thePunjabi community in London and, uh, this
group of ladies that like gets togetherin like a, old community annex to like
write robotic fiction short storiesand like read them to each other and
(41:43):
it was, And it was just, and and, andthere was so much interesting stuff in
there about, like I said, I love learningabout like other cultures and religions
and people and all that was in there.
And I think that's just an example ofyou never know and you should always try.
Alexandra (41:57):
I am writing this down cuz that sound sounds, um, that.
Sounds like the sweetest story.
That sounds so freaking good.
I love it.
It was really, love it.
Oh my gosh.
So I selfishly wanna know, butI'm sure our listeners wanna know.
(42:18):
Let's just, cuz I mean, shoot, Ihave like 20, 20 favorite books.
But let's make this simple for everyoneand make sure we're not but what are
your, let's say like top five favorites,maybe like that first come to mind.
Emily (42:34):
This is a hard
Alexandra (42:34):
question.
I know.
It's really, yeah.
Trust me.
I, but I'm like, you know, I, Ialmost, I wanna, I wanna selfishly know
like, what your favorite books are.
I always love adding to my list.
Emily (42:46):
Okay.
What are my favorite books?
Um, all right.
I am gonna start with, uh,the Power by Naomi Alderman.
Mm.
Uh, I've read that one several times.
I love it because I love thinking about,um, I love thinking about like, alternate,
(43:11):
alternate universes, alternate histories.
Like this question of like, whatif, um, so in the power, uh, the
premise is essentially women discoverone day that they have this like,
um, you know, Physical capacity todevelop electricity in their bodies
that can like shoot out of them.
(43:31):
So like essentially what happens whenwomen can physically dominate men?
What happens to society?
You know, we often talk about like,oh, if women, you know, were in charge
or ran things, it would be better.
Um, you know, and yes or noin different sort of ways.
But this book asks like a reallyinteresting question and, and the,
you know, and just about how, um,in some ways, yes, in some ways,
(43:52):
no, you know, you know, women.
Aren't good or bad, justlike men aren't good or bad.
Like it'd be a, it'd be sort ofa mix of like some good things
would happen and, and some, andsome bad things would happen.
Just that it's not really,it's about power, uh, more
than it is about anything else.
And so I, I think thatbook is really interesting.
Um, other favorite books?
(44:14):
Well, we were talking aboutme a little bit and one Q 84.
Is one of my favorite books of all time.
That's one of the most memorablerecent like adult reading
experiences that I can remember.
In a previous job, this was, um, I.
You know, six or seven years ago,I, we have like a winter break, uh,
(44:38):
off from, from the, from, uh, thatjob and just for two days straight.
Like, honestly, all I,I, I just read that book.
Like I woke up, I read that book all day.
I went to sleep.
I woke up again the next day,just kept on reading that book.
It was like, The best, honestly.
Um, that book is so amazing andI'm such a big Murakami fan.
(45:01):
Uh, so that's definitely oneof the big all-time favorites.
Another favorite of mine that's,that's standing out is, um, a
book called Dalva by Jim Harrison.
Uh, and, uh, I love that onebecause, It's just so unexpected.
(45:23):
Um, it's about, uh, a woman in herforties just sort of like figuring
her life out, but, and written by aman, but in such a, astonishing sort
of way, it's just like so, so good.
One thing that I really appreciate,is I love finding hidden gems.
(45:45):
I love like combing the back list.
There, there's so much discussion thatgets dominated about the new releases
and I, and I understand why that's thecase, but it, that doesn't necessarily
reflect like what it is that peopleare reading and enjoying and loving.
And so that's, that's my, my, my personal.
(46:09):
What really lights me up is likefinding something like, older
that is like so, so cool.
Um, couple other older hiddengem type books that I'll mention.
One is called Ruby FruitJungle by Rita May Brown.
It was really popular inthe seventies actually.
My mom recommended it to me andit's one of the, it's sort of
(46:30):
Like a lesbian version of Catcherand the Rye, but like better.
And, but it's from the earlyseventies and, uh, just really, really
good and, and really interesting.
Um, and, and, and groundbreaking,certainly for the time.
Uh, so that's Ruby Fruit Jungle.
And then the last one I'll mention isa book called Beer in the Snooker Club.
(46:55):
Um, by an Egyptian author whosename I'm gonna pronounce very badly.
Waguih Ghali uh, and that's almostcertainly not how you pronounce that
name, but the book is incredible.
It's, um, he wrote it in 1964,but it, you read it and it's like
it could have been written today.
(47:15):
It's about, um, Post-ColonialEgypt in the 1950s.
Also, again, sort of a catcher in the ryetype five, but it's a coming of age story,
uh, and about, this young man who istrying to, navigate the changes that are
going on in society and like, wanting morethings to change, but also getting really
disillusioned by hypocrisy and greed.
(47:38):
And so, yeah, nothing similarat all to what's going on today.
Um, and, uh, Also just,uh, really, really good.
So those are some of my favorites.
Alexandra (47:49):
I love it.
Wait, so the last one isbeer In the what Club?
Beer in, in
Emily (47:55):
the Snooper Club.
Alexandra (47:56):
Snooper club.
Okay.
Yeah, because I'm likealso writing these down.
I'm like, okay, I wannamake sure I spelled that.
I, I love that.
I also love, I really want to like getinto your opinion on that because on the,
um, on the aspect of like, these super.
Like, I don't know, books that havebeen on like the New York Times
(48:18):
bestseller list for like too many weeks.
And I'm like, okay, well I don't evenknow if I wanna read you because I
just feel like you're too hyped up.
And I feel like there are so manybooks that I love that are so either
like underrated or I'm like, whyis no one talking about this book?
So like, is there a book that.
(48:39):
Is also on that list for you.
You're like, why is no onetalking about this book?
I mean,
Emily (48:47):
I guess, I think maybe some of the ones that I've, I've
mentioned are, um, I'm looking, whyis no one talking about this book?
Let's see.
I don't know.
I dunno if there's like a specific title.
I think like there's, there's,um, there's just so many great
books, I guess is what I'll say.
(49:09):
Like what I, what happens to mein almost every conversation I
have with a reader is someone'slike, oh, have you read this yet?
And 70% of the time, my answer is no.
You know what I mean?
Because like, Um, there are so many moreamazing books that are worth reading than
I'm gonna be able to read in my lifetime.
And that's just a fact.
And so what we read and like whenand why and how, I think really
(49:33):
depends more on like the socialcontext or, or like the, um, the
world context of like what's going on.
Then, then it does anything else.
And so that's like a big part ofwhat we're trying to do with italic
type is to say that, for readerslike us, the big problem is not,
I don't know what to read next.
My problem is I have likea hundred books on MyQ.
(49:56):
Oh, there's a million things thatI want to read, what, so of all
the things that I'm interestedin reading, what do I read next?
And so how do we make help peoplemake those decisions based on,
their connections based on what'sgoing on in the world around them
based on like, you know, otherinterests and things like that.
I think.
Like 80% of the books that Ilove aren't talked about enough
(50:17):
online, but, for that reason.
But that doesn't mean that they're notamazing and, and worth talking about.
I just think that it's unlikely thatwe're gonna have, you know, everyone
be talking about all the great bookslike at any given time, you know?
And another thing that, um, Youknow, I just, I think there's like
(50:40):
a little bit of tension around is,and again, I understand why like the
new releases and the book publicitydrive is sort of in this one way.
But when I see things like, here are thefive books coming out in May that you have
to read right now, I'm like, Well, I'mnot gonna read, I'm not gonna read the
five new releases coming outta, may, may.
Maybe I'll read some of them at somepoint in my life, like in a year or
(51:04):
two if they come up in a book club orif a friend tells me to or whatever.
Um, but I think this idea thatyou have to read everything like
right now, like when it comes outor you're gonna miss it or it's
whatever, is, is sort of not my style.
Alexandra (51:22):
I so resonate with that and something I've really been like
loving and kind of like giving myselfgrace for is like reading a book
when your soul is ready to read it.
I was in this like TonyMorrison hole like, a year ago
and I was beating myself up.
(51:42):
For, not understanding.
I know like in a college class weread jazz and I just didn't get it.
I was so out.
I just, but then I read it.
I was just, I was in love with it.
I loved every single Tony Morrison bookI've read so far, but it's because like
I was ready to read it now, and I just, Iso agree with that because I don't think
(52:07):
it's fair or conducive to like push.
Books onto people.
It's almost like you have to watch thismovie or you have to listen to this,
but maybe it's like a really, like,books are a whole visceral experience,
at least for us, bookish loversand like also just sensitive women.
It's like any kind of,um, influx of information.
(52:29):
It's just, I think books come to us whenour soul's ready to read them for sure.
So I, I really resonate with that.
Emily (52:35):
I totally agree with that.
And I, but I, and I wouldalso add too that, yes.
It's about like giving yourselflike the time and space for
like, when you're ready.
Um, and that's actually why, like oneof the features we have on type, we
have a paused shelf because . Sometimesyou just need to pause a book and
like, you weren't feeling it like,For whatever reason that moment.
(52:57):
But you might come back to it like ayear later or someone says like, oh
yeah, you should like try that again.
Oh yeah, I'll give it a try again.
There's been lots of times whereI wasn't feeling something like in
a, I tried a particular book andthen tried it again a few years later
and then I really got into it more.
Um, but I think that, inaddition to that, it's not
like it matters more to me if.
(53:21):
You someone I know, a friend of minesays like, Emily, I just finished this.
You're gonna love it.
Like, you should definitely read it.
Okay.
That's gonna get like prioritized, inmy queue because I know you, I'm, I wanna
connect with books like, Um, that's,that's something that I'm like, yeah,
I'm gonna, I'll, I'll, I'll read thatin the next couple books, but, somebody
(53:43):
that I d you know, some, you know,random list or some, a media outlet or.
A random, some other influenceror whatever, like just saying
this book, this book, this bookis everywhere, or whatever.
That's not really gonna do it forme in the same way as somebody I
know and care about telling me.
(54:03):
Yeah.
as in the same way you were sayinglike, you should, you should watch this
movie, you should listen to this song.
Um, well, who is telling it thatto you I think is really important.
Alexandra (54:12):
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And now I'm also really, when yousay , I actually follow recommendations
of people I really care about and Ialso even respect and, um, I relate to
their, um, their, what was I gonna say?
Some people recommend you a book.
You're like, hell yes.
Some do.
(54:33):
You're like, uh, notmy style, but love you.
But how do we put that into one word?
But I've been really into, andalso honoring like the long
captions that people write.
Mm-hmm.
At first I'm like, oh, I don't know.
I don't wanna write all this.
Are people gonna read it?
And then actually when I.
The friends I've made on bookInstagram, when the beautiful long
(54:54):
captions they read about books.
I'm like, that actually now has mesold and running to the bookstore
and has me embracing even my,my love and my um, my passion for
writing, cuz I'm a writer as well.
And, but then also I'm eager toshare this beautiful vulnerable.
In this even visceral reactionI had to this book that are also
(55:15):
getting at people to love it.
And that's where I'm finding like mm-hmm.
I'm relating to people andreading experiences so much more.
So if you could give someone a book totell them that you love them, whether
it's romantic interest, whether it's asibling or a family member, or even if
it's a friend, what book would it be?
(55:38):
A
Emily (55:38):
book that says, I love you.
That's a very interesting question.
Mm-hmm.
Um, not a book that I love per se.
Alexandra (55:52):
Is that right?
I guess so.
, it totally depends.
The answers have been,completely different.
I know one was too a friend, some peoplehave said to romantic interest to kind of
understand like their humor, who they are.
Um,
Emily (56:06):
okay.
Um, Let's see.
I think I would give, this ismaybe gonna be a funny answer.
Um, I would give people, uh, the book,I contain multitudes by Ed Young.
Uh, which is all about, uh, ourmicrobiomes that, that live inside of us,
(56:28):
and the idea that we have like, Millionsand millions, literally of other species
of animals that live inside of us andhave evolved with us, and that that's an
important part of how our bodies work.
Um, I've read that book a few times.
It always blows my mind.
(56:50):
Um, and I think it's one of the most like.
Eyeopening and Awakening, books.
Oh, and I'm gonna say one more too.
Um, I would say in addition to eyecontain multitudes, I would also
give, um, on Being Mortal by Agai, uh,which is also a really fabulous book
(57:12):
about, uh, What happens to us as weage and the trade offs that people,
need to consider around quality oflife and like medical intervention.
I make my parents read it.
I made a lot of people read that book.
Um, cuz I just think it's, that's also,um, a really, really important one.
(57:33):
I guess what those, what those two booksboth have in common is, um, I think the
more we can understand about ourselvesand how our bodies and brains work, um,
the better we can make decisions abouthow to lead happier and healthier lives.
Mm.
Alexandra (57:51):
Oh my God.
Those books sound amazing.
I'm so excited to add them to the list.
Ah, so final question.
Okay, so I always ask this at theend, and I know you've, touched
upon this, but I don't know,maybe you'll answer differently.
(58:12):
So why do you, Reid?
Emily (58:17):
Why do I read?
There, I, we did talk a littlebit about this, like learning and
discovery and curiosity element.
I would also, add to that, that,especially today, In today's world, and
I think it's only getting more important,, we are living in a world of, increasingly.
(58:38):
Distracting media environments.
We have information flying at usfrom all different sorts of ways.
We get pings and dings and notifications.
We have this, infinite scroll , sortof universe, um, where we can be just,
endlessly distracted however we want.
We are always in a state ofexperiencing, Prefrontal cortex overload.
(59:01):
We feel like we're, frazzledand being pulled in a lot of
different directions because we are.
Um, and because of that, I think readinga book provides, just such a necessary
like reprieve and release from that.
I think that there's a.
(59:22):
Meditative quality to, um,focusing your attention in,
one way and in one direction.
And even if you do it, even ifit's 15 minutes, 20 minutes, even
if it's a short period of time.
Just doing that for, fora short period of time.
And, um, I sometimes feel likewhen I'm reading, I can almost feel
(59:47):
my brain like repairing itself.
Like I feel it feels good likeup there, you know what I mean?
I feel, my neuronsrepairing and reconnecting.
Um, and so that's another, uh, I think.
Important benefit and just, andreally, important value that reading
(01:00:09):
brings to us, and that is getting,I think, even more important.
Alexandra (01:00:13):
Oh my gosh.
Beautiful answer.
Beautiful conversation.
I feel like.
Oh my gosh, I'm so, it's like Ihave a million more questions for
you that I'm definitely, I reallywanna pick your brain about.
You're awesome.
I'm so excited about whatyou're doing in the world.
I'm so excited to get to know youmore and to dive deeper into italic
(01:00:35):
type and just thank you so, so much.
Thank
Emily (01:00:38):
you.
Alexandra (01:00:39):
Of course.
Hello.
Hello, you guys.
Thank you so, so much for listeningand coming back to Daugird book club.
Your support, your listenership,your love means the world to me.
And as I said earlier, it is so freakinggood to be back and just doing this.
(01:01:01):
So again, if you haven't already makesure to give me a follow on instagram
at @dogeared.bookclub and follow forall the silliness and book reviews
and updates on episodes and guestsand all the beautiful things to come.
And of course, make sure to giveitalic type of follow on Instagram ad
italic, underscore type underscore,and click the link in the bio and
(01:01:24):
explore how you can connect with thattalent type connect with the community.
Participate in the commune.
Community participate in themonthly state of the reader.
And I am just really, really excited.
I love you guys so, so much.
And i will see you guys next
time
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