September 11, 2022 • 22 mins
In this episode, two families share their stories of making babies using Assisted Reproductive Technology. Sue and Linda explain some of the process and how they decided to talk to their children about it. Their children, Emily and Elsie, talk about what they understand about how they were conceived.
Resources:
SHV have free teacher resources to assist with classroom teaching of Assisted Reproduction. These were developed with the support of Victorian Assisted Reproductive Treatment Authority (VARTA)
For more about SHV, go to @ shvic.org.au.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
This podcast contains discussion about adult topics.
Use your judgment if there are little ears around.
Welcome to doing it.
This is a podcast made by sexual health victoria.
S HV has been running for over 50 years now.
We run a whole lot of education programs for communities and medical professionals across victoria.
We also run sexual health clinics in the city and Box Hill in Melbourne.
(00:26):
My name is Anne and I'm part of the S.
HV schools and community team.
We go to schools and run classes for all year levels on bodies growing up,
puberty,
sex,
reproduction,
consent and relationships delivering the everybody education program.
This podcast is for parents and carers of school aged Children so we can share what goes on in a relationships and sexuality education class and help support these sorts of conversations at home.
(00:56):
In this episode,
I'll be talking to two different families about their experience with assisted reproductive technology.
People embark on art for many reasons.
Success is not guaranteed.
My interview is successfully created Families with the help of modern medicine.
I'm going to ask them about their experience and ask their Children how much they know about it for these interviews.
(01:23):
I spoke with the parents privately first and then invited the Children to join the conversation.
First up is Su Su has two Children conceived using IVF.
You'll also hear from Su's daughter Emily,
who is 14 years old.
So,
(01:44):
thank you so much for speaking with me about your family.
That's fine.
Happy to help.
First question,
can you tell me a little bit about your family structure and what led you to IVF?
So my partner and I got together in our mid thirties,
both of us in our mid thirties and we wanted to start a family within a couple of years I suppose of meeting And um we started trying and I guess um as I was sort of in my mid to late 30s I think as I as I was unable to conceive I got a little bit more and more worried and my partner is male and um he's a bit younger than me.
(02:27):
But yeah he was also wondering what was going on as well.
So you just started that process with a doctor and um throws eggs and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah look fortunately I say fortunately for us,
fortunately for us um we went to the doctor and got him checked out first because it turned out that he had a low sperm count.
(02:50):
And so we almost immediately got into the IVF pathway,
interestingly just before I started the transplant,
I think I had a procedure to clean out my womb which I think is fairly common to enable clean placement of embryos.
And while I was while the surgeon was doing that she checked my tubes and it turned out that I had completely blocked fallopian tubes.
(03:18):
And I think that for women it takes a little bit longer.
It's not easy to To determine why you might not be getting pregnant if the sperm count is okay.
So we were one of that 20%,
I think it is where we both had issues with conceiving,
right?
Um what was difficult about the process of going through IVF?
(03:42):
It was difficult emotionally and psychologically.
That was the main thing.
I mean the physical thing was difficult,
but I'm pretty tough and so I was pretty keen on having kids.
I was able to bear that also and I know that this isn't a common experience,
but also it worked for us first time,
but it was more about for us as a couple and this predated the IVF.
(04:07):
But thinking about what we were doing,
bringing Children into the world and how we could do that in a responsible,
loving,
honorable way.
Is there anything you wished you knew beforehand?
We only went through one cycle.
I know from years of experience with the health industry or the health industry in hospitals that you often only get information as you are able to process it.
(04:34):
And so perhaps we didn't get,
I don't recall getting information detailed information about how you might cope with an unsuccessful cycle.
But I imagine that they would cross that bridge if and when you come to it because I imagine the impact of the psychological impact of unsuccessful cycle after unsuccessful bicycle would actually be quite hard to bear.
(05:02):
Absolutely.
Did you have any discussion before you conceived through IVF about how you would explain that story of conception to your Children?
I can't remember,
I can't remember but I think we both were always planning to be up about it.
So interestingly we told the kids that they were IVF quite young.
You know like primary age,
(05:23):
early primary age.
And I think we've spoken about it in the years intervening years.
But then last night when I was telling the kids about this podcast with you,
my son goes what really am I IVF?
So I had to explain it all over again.
I thought that that knowledge had settled.
(05:46):
But no clearly not.
Yeah.
It's funny isn't it?
You think you've done it all and then they just don't remember.
So what do you think they understand about it?
Do they do you think they can empathize with that process for you now?
I think as a result of last night's conversation we explained a little bit about the science of it.
(06:08):
I was always worried about the concept of my younger child thinking that they had been stored for a little while.
I don't like that.
But we talked about the fact that conceptually it is not the word but when they were conceived they're actually twins.
So that cheered him up.
They were both of the same cycle and they're both genetically linked to you and your partner?
(06:35):
Yes but that's also a really worrying aspect of it that you desperate to ensure that the right egg gets mixed with the right sperm?
And that's that was a worry,
you know,
we had to ask them over and over again,
are you 100% sure you've got the right mix going on.
(06:56):
Yeah.
It's very hard to see on its own and identify.
I'm sure they worked out Emily.
Thank you for recording with me.
That's okay.
So I'm just going to ask,
what do you know about the story of how you were conceived?
Well um I know that I was IVF and I sort of know how that process happens but I've never really thought much about the fact that I was IVF.
(07:23):
It's not a daily,
this is on my mind all the time.
So you learned about IVF when you're in about grade three or four?
You remember understanding it then?
That's when I remember thinking about I think we were doing a sex ed class or our first one,
maybe three or four.
Um I remember learning about IVF and then knowing then that I was IVF,
(07:46):
I don't know when I learned that my parents told me that?
Yeah,
I just feel like you've always known and do you know the most usual way that babies are made?
When did you learn about the most usual way?
Like you always kind of known about IVF?
When did you kind of understand that there was another way that babies are made.
I think I learned about the usual way first and I think my parents told me that I might have been,
(08:12):
they probably told me in a very child friendly way around,
I don't know.
Um So I learned about that way first and then I learned about IVF.
The next interview is with linda linda has two Children conceived using IVF and a sperm donor.
She carried one pregnancy and her partner the other.
(08:34):
You will also hear from Elsie who is nine years old linda.
Thank you so much for speaking with me about your family.
Can you tell me a little bit about your family structure and what led you to assisted reproduction?
Sure.
So the structure of our family is myself and my wife Peta,
(08:56):
so two months and we have a nine year old and a six year old.
And I suppose what led us to assisted reproduction is that we're socially infertile.
Clearly we were going to need help or we're going to need something different if we wanted to have Children in our life.
(09:17):
We didn't really consider any other way to be honest.
Yeah.
We went straight to Melbourne IVF for that help.
We decided that um that I would be the first out of the two of us to go through treatment because I was older,
but it took a lot longer than what we expected.
(09:38):
So like so many people,
we started with a certain idea of the steps that we need to take.
Um and trying to interpret the advice and um that we were being given.
Um But it didn't turn out you know sort of um the way that we thought so I ended up being on treatment for a number of years um And the first time that I became pregnant that pregnancy didn't last.
(10:06):
So I guess it did take so long and it was such a process and journey if you like.
That.
The that the thought of whether we would have another baby was just sort of very much on hold until we got through all of that um And what that sort of involved and I guess the toll it took.
(10:27):
Um But then also you know um coping with a little baby as well and learning to be parents before we decided um that we would try again and then it transpired that you were able to use the same donor for both Children.
So your Children are genetically linked.
Yeah they are yeah so they were conceived with an anonymous donor and originally we hadn't really we didn't necessarily want to have the same donor.
(10:59):
We didn't really care.
Our view was that we are enough um for our Children.
So that was sort of but like but like so many things you know you think that you you think you know it all um but are always learning and that was something that we changed our minds about.
But we were sort of lucky in a sense that the donor that we'd used for me um wasn't available when Peter started her treatment but became available um during the time that she was um treatment so was offered to us.
(11:37):
And it wasn't until that happened that we sort of um I guess looked at it a bit differently and thought about it in a sort of deeper way.
And one of the positions we had was we wanted to sort of leave as many decisions as we could up to the Children.
So obviously we were making big decisions on their behalf.
But where possible if there was something that we could retain for them to make their own minds up about when they were ready,
(12:02):
that's what we would go with.
We hadn't thought through.
I don't think that from the Children's point of view,
depending on what their questions might be and what their journey might be.
You know when they got older concerning how they came to be.
And in particular the donor,
having the same donor for both Children meant that.
(12:26):
Well essentially for me the scenario I was thinking of was that if both of them sought to have contact with that donor down the track they're going to presumably they'll get the same response from the one person rather than if they had different donors and different responses from two different people,
it was just a whole other layer of potentially big stuff that they were going to have to navigate and deal with.
(12:51):
Whereas having the same donor would avoid that.
So we're actually really happy that it worked out that way relationship wise?
What do you,
is there anything that you wish you knew about the process before you started it?
I mean I think we were really well informed.
You know we're quite a bit older starting a family I think um you know reflect quite often that we sort of just got in in time for the majority of my adult life.
(13:19):
I never thought that having Children or being a mother was going to be a possibility for me.
I sort of grew up believing that my sexuality meant that I wasn't going to be able to have a family.
Um And I know that's not the case now.
Um and that is absolutely wonderful.
So yeah I guess my point being that we were we were older,
(13:41):
maybe a bit wiser.
We you know we were pretty well informed but I think it's just um the unpredictable nature of the sort of outcomes will be along the way with treatment.
Um For any individual or couple,
like no one can prepare you for that.
So you can have as many facts and figures and statistics as you know are available but individual experience.
(14:08):
Yeah,
absolutely,
absolutely.
And that's something that I think what we really learned was that it is absolutely an individual experience.
It's impossible to really understand what it's like for anybody else unless you know you can only know your own um experience.
Have you had any discussion about how you will explain the story of your Children's conception to your Children.
(14:33):
Is that something you're in agreement with Peter about?
And have you started that process?
Yeah,
absolutely.
I mean,
we started that process at the same time as even considering having Children,
I think to date we are on the same page,
basically,
our approach is to simplify it is just to be really truthful.
There's something about answering any questions that arise really truthfully.
(14:56):
But of course,
that's not enough.
We also have to decide on timing for,
I guess maybe introducing or review certain parts of information and the story in a way that we think is appropriate to their age and stage and you know what they're going through.
I think at the moment we'll probably always,
(15:17):
our view has been,
I don't know,
it's just that it's not it's not a big deal or not to make a big deal out of it.
I'm just really aware that,
you know,
a lot of the sort of judgments that we make about this,
this issue we can't make on behalf of the Children.
Even when I hear myself say it's not a big deal,
it may be a massive deal for them.
(15:39):
So,
but we just have to wait and see and um,
cross those bridges when we come to them and just yeah,
be as loving,
open.
Um,
and honest as we can be,
of course we've already had many,
many conversations about how our family came to be and we haven't the Children haven't really,
as far as we know,
(16:00):
been exposed to a level of detail about how that works.
Of course they understand that families have different um combinations of people.
We've talked a lot about the fact that we needed Peter and I needed doctors to help us and that other couples don't.
(16:20):
Yeah,
we've talked a lot about how hard we tried and all of the things that we did to bring them into the world because they because we wanted them so badly.
So they know all of that and they talk about that.
So with the um treatment that I had,
I conceived our child on my very last cycle of treatment,
(16:45):
so had decided that that was going to be the last one.
It was already At least a year over the deadline I'd previously set myself.
Um and um you know,
it really still does feel like quite a miracle.
Um it was transfer number 13.
Um and so our child knows all about that story and we tell that story um a lot around how special um they are because um it had taken so many tries and that was my absolute last try and um here they are.
(17:25):
Do they know the most usual way that a baby starts?
No,
I don't think so.
I mean unless I'm really,
really naive and they're talking about every day with their friends.
I don't know.
I mean they know a few swear words and they sort of know that certain swear words are rude and you know,
all of that.
But I really don't,
(17:46):
I really don't think that have a really clear understanding about how babies are made because of ideas and concepts and principles if you like,
but not the nuts and bolts just yet.
Yeah,
that's on the horizon.
Let me tell you,
I know it.
(18:08):
You spoke about letting them make their own decisions so that autonomy of going through that journey of finding out or not finding out about their donor.
Do you have a timeline?
Like do you have a age?
No,
not so much an age,
it's more it would be less around an age and more about,
(18:29):
um,
I guess other things,
other ways that we would assess readiness.
And part of it is just around the questioning and the types of questioning,
you know,
that we're getting so that that that's changing all the time.
And has,
even as recently as this week,
you know,
we've had a first conversation about,
um,
the donor and what that means.
So,
(18:49):
um,
we've always felt that it's more around just that ongoing assessment and judgment about,
I guess what they're ready for,
but also what they're seeking.
Um,
and when when I said earlier about not being a big deal,
I think part of what I meant was I would never want to set up a big reveal moment.
Like I just instinctively feel like that's something that is pretty risky I'm hoping and I feel more like it'll be a longer process of evolving conversations that are built into everyday life.
(19:22):
Um and yeah sure some of those might be more deliberate and might need to be more in depth but a lot of them are probably going to be all the other things we chat about daily.
I've just got one question for you.
What do you know about how you were made when you were born?
Well,
I know how well I know how babies are made and I know that it took you 13 tries I guess I know a bit.
(19:52):
I know but and I know where yeah,
I do Linda tried 13 times all know 12 and then on the 13th I was born and then you go inside Linda.
Yeah.
(20:12):
Yeah lucky 13.
My favorite number is 13.
Just as well.
Do you know how the doctors helped?
No,
not completely.
But you feel like when you,
when you're ready you could ask that information from linda.
Yeah.
Okay awesome.
Do you know how babies are made?
(20:34):
No,
that's all right.
That's not a test.
That was perfect.
Perfect answer.
Thank you.
Thank you so much to Sue Emily linda and Elsie and their families for letting their story be recorded and shared key things which stood out in this discussion for me are for both families.
(20:58):
The fact that they were making this recording triggered conversations about conception.
It doesn't come up every day.
So it was great to have created that opportunity.
Emily mentioned sex ed classes as a time where she could consolidate what she knew about reproduction and she remembers it.
School based RSC is a great place to clarify understanding linda talked about everyday conversations and creating opportunities for discussion about the big things like reproduction.
(21:32):
Often when I explain IVF in class,
students draw the conclusion that donating genetic material means that that person is a parent.
I always explain that the parents are the ones doing the parenting.
This podcast has been produced with the support of the victorian assisted reproductive treatment authority or vata.
(21:56):
For more information on them,
including resources about fertility donors,
surrogacy and assisted reproduction.
You can visit their website all linked to that in the show notes.
Also see the sexual health pictorial website for free classroom resources with tea activities for grade 3 to 10 about assisted reproduction technology.
Also a self paced online learning module to support that resource.
(22:20):
These were all produced in partnership between sexual health victoria and for more information about sexual health victoria.
Go to vic dot org dot au.
You can follow us on instagram facebook twitter linkedin,
contact me directly at doing it at vic dot org dot au if you like the podcast.
(22:41):
Please like it.
Subscribe.
So you don't miss out.
Thank you so much for listening.
This podcast contains discussion about adult topics.
Use your judgment if there are little ears around.
Welcome to doing it.
This is a podcast made by sexual health victoria.
S HV has been running for over 50 years now.
We run a whole lot of education programs for communities and medical professionals across victoria.
We also run sexual health clinics in the city and Box Hill in Melbourne.
(00:26):
My name is Anne and I'm part of the S.
HV schools and community team.
We go to schools and run classes for all year levels on bodies growing up,
puberty,
sex,
reproduction,
consent and relationships delivering the everybody education program.
This podcast is for parents and carers of school aged Children so we can share what goes on in a relationships and sexuality education class and help support these sorts of conversations at home.
(00:56):
In this episode,
I'll be talking to two different families about their experience with assisted reproductive technology.
People embark on art for many reasons.
Success is not guaranteed.
My interview is successfully created Families with the help of modern medicine.
I'm going to ask them about their experience and ask their Children how much they know about it for these interviews.
(01:23):
I spoke with the parents privately first and then invited the Children to join the conversation.
First up is Su Su has two Children conceived using IVF.
You'll also hear from Su's daughter Emily,
who is 14 years old.
So,
(01:44):
thank you so much for speaking with me about your family.
That's fine.
Happy to help.
First question,
can you tell me a little bit about your family structure and what led you to IVF?
So my partner and I got together in our mid thirties,
both of us in our mid thirties and we wanted to start a family within a couple of years I suppose of meeting And um we started trying and I guess um as I was sort of in my mid to late 30s I think as I as I was unable to conceive I got a little bit more and more worried and my partner is male and um he's a bit younger than me.
(02:27):
But yeah he was also wondering what was going on as well.
So you just started that process with a doctor and um throws eggs and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah look fortunately I say fortunately for us,
fortunately for us um we went to the doctor and got him checked out first because it turned out that he had a low sperm count.
(02:50):
And so we almost immediately got into the IVF pathway,
interestingly just before I started the transplant,
I think I had a procedure to clean out my womb which I think is fairly common to enable clean placement of embryos.
And while I was while the surgeon was doing that she checked my tubes and it turned out that I had completely blocked fallopian tubes.
(03:18):
And I think that for women it takes a little bit longer.
It's not easy to To determine why you might not be getting pregnant if the sperm count is okay.
So we were one of that 20%,
I think it is where we both had issues with conceiving,
right?
Um what was difficult about the process of going through IVF?
(03:42):
It was difficult emotionally and psychologically.
That was the main thing.
I mean the physical thing was difficult,
but I'm pretty tough and so I was pretty keen on having kids.
I was able to bear that also and I know that this isn't a common experience,
but also it worked for us first time,
but it was more about for us as a couple and this predated the IVF.
(04:07):
But thinking about what we were doing,
bringing Children into the world and how we could do that in a responsible,
loving,
honorable way.
Is there anything you wished you knew beforehand?
We only went through one cycle.
I know from years of experience with the health industry or the health industry in hospitals that you often only get information as you are able to process it.
(04:34):
And so perhaps we didn't get,
I don't recall getting information detailed information about how you might cope with an unsuccessful cycle.
But I imagine that they would cross that bridge if and when you come to it because I imagine the impact of the psychological impact of unsuccessful cycle after unsuccessful bicycle would actually be quite hard to bear.
(05:02):
Absolutely.
Did you have any discussion before you conceived through IVF about how you would explain that story of conception to your Children?
I can't remember,
I can't remember but I think we both were always planning to be up about it.
So interestingly we told the kids that they were IVF quite young.
You know like primary age,
(05:23):
early primary age.
And I think we've spoken about it in the years intervening years.
But then last night when I was telling the kids about this podcast with you,
my son goes what really am I IVF?
So I had to explain it all over again.
I thought that that knowledge had settled.
(05:46):
But no clearly not.
Yeah.
It's funny isn't it?
You think you've done it all and then they just don't remember.
So what do you think they understand about it?
Do they do you think they can empathize with that process for you now?
I think as a result of last night's conversation we explained a little bit about the science of it.
(06:08):
I was always worried about the concept of my younger child thinking that they had been stored for a little while.
I don't like that.
But we talked about the fact that conceptually it is not the word but when they were conceived they're actually twins.
So that cheered him up.
They were both of the same cycle and they're both genetically linked to you and your partner?
(06:35):
Yes but that's also a really worrying aspect of it that you desperate to ensure that the right egg gets mixed with the right sperm?
And that's that was a worry,
you know,
we had to ask them over and over again,
are you 100% sure you've got the right mix going on.
(06:56):
Yeah.
It's very hard to see on its own and identify.
I'm sure they worked out Emily.
Thank you for recording with me.
That's okay.
So I'm just going to ask,
what do you know about the story of how you were conceived?
Well um I know that I was IVF and I sort of know how that process happens but I've never really thought much about the fact that I was IVF.
(07:23):
It's not a daily,
this is on my mind all the time.
So you learned about IVF when you're in about grade three or four?
You remember understanding it then?
That's when I remember thinking about I think we were doing a sex ed class or our first one,
maybe three or four.
Um I remember learning about IVF and then knowing then that I was IVF,
(07:46):
I don't know when I learned that my parents told me that?
Yeah,
I just feel like you've always known and do you know the most usual way that babies are made?
When did you learn about the most usual way?
Like you always kind of known about IVF?
When did you kind of understand that there was another way that babies are made.
I think I learned about the usual way first and I think my parents told me that I might have been,
(08:12):
they probably told me in a very child friendly way around,
I don't know.
Um So I learned about that way first and then I learned about IVF.
The next interview is with linda linda has two Children conceived using IVF and a sperm donor.
She carried one pregnancy and her partner the other.
(08:34):
You will also hear from Elsie who is nine years old linda.
Thank you so much for speaking with me about your family.
Can you tell me a little bit about your family structure and what led you to assisted reproduction?
Sure.
So the structure of our family is myself and my wife Peta,
(08:56):
so two months and we have a nine year old and a six year old.
And I suppose what led us to assisted reproduction is that we're socially infertile.
Clearly we were going to need help or we're going to need something different if we wanted to have Children in our life.
(09:17):
We didn't really consider any other way to be honest.
Yeah.
We went straight to Melbourne IVF for that help.
We decided that um that I would be the first out of the two of us to go through treatment because I was older,
but it took a lot longer than what we expected.
(09:38):
So like so many people,
we started with a certain idea of the steps that we need to take.
Um and trying to interpret the advice and um that we were being given.
Um But it didn't turn out you know sort of um the way that we thought so I ended up being on treatment for a number of years um And the first time that I became pregnant that pregnancy didn't last.
(10:06):
So I guess it did take so long and it was such a process and journey if you like.
That.
The that the thought of whether we would have another baby was just sort of very much on hold until we got through all of that um And what that sort of involved and I guess the toll it took.
(10:27):
Um But then also you know um coping with a little baby as well and learning to be parents before we decided um that we would try again and then it transpired that you were able to use the same donor for both Children.
So your Children are genetically linked.
Yeah they are yeah so they were conceived with an anonymous donor and originally we hadn't really we didn't necessarily want to have the same donor.
(10:59):
We didn't really care.
Our view was that we are enough um for our Children.
So that was sort of but like but like so many things you know you think that you you think you know it all um but are always learning and that was something that we changed our minds about.
But we were sort of lucky in a sense that the donor that we'd used for me um wasn't available when Peter started her treatment but became available um during the time that she was um treatment so was offered to us.
(11:37):
And it wasn't until that happened that we sort of um I guess looked at it a bit differently and thought about it in a sort of deeper way.
And one of the positions we had was we wanted to sort of leave as many decisions as we could up to the Children.
So obviously we were making big decisions on their behalf.
But where possible if there was something that we could retain for them to make their own minds up about when they were ready,
(12:02):
that's what we would go with.
We hadn't thought through.
I don't think that from the Children's point of view,
depending on what their questions might be and what their journey might be.
You know when they got older concerning how they came to be.
And in particular the donor,
having the same donor for both Children meant that.
(12:26):
Well essentially for me the scenario I was thinking of was that if both of them sought to have contact with that donor down the track they're going to presumably they'll get the same response from the one person rather than if they had different donors and different responses from two different people,
it was just a whole other layer of potentially big stuff that they were going to have to navigate and deal with.
(12:51):
Whereas having the same donor would avoid that.
So we're actually really happy that it worked out that way relationship wise?
What do you,
is there anything that you wish you knew about the process before you started it?
I mean I think we were really well informed.
You know we're quite a bit older starting a family I think um you know reflect quite often that we sort of just got in in time for the majority of my adult life.
(13:19):
I never thought that having Children or being a mother was going to be a possibility for me.
I sort of grew up believing that my sexuality meant that I wasn't going to be able to have a family.
Um And I know that's not the case now.
Um and that is absolutely wonderful.
So yeah I guess my point being that we were we were older,
(13:41):
maybe a bit wiser.
We you know we were pretty well informed but I think it's just um the unpredictable nature of the sort of outcomes will be along the way with treatment.
Um For any individual or couple,
like no one can prepare you for that.
So you can have as many facts and figures and statistics as you know are available but individual experience.
(14:08):
Yeah,
absolutely,
absolutely.
And that's something that I think what we really learned was that it is absolutely an individual experience.
It's impossible to really understand what it's like for anybody else unless you know you can only know your own um experience.
Have you had any discussion about how you will explain the story of your Children's conception to your Children.
(14:33):
Is that something you're in agreement with Peter about?
And have you started that process?
Yeah,
absolutely.
I mean,
we started that process at the same time as even considering having Children,
I think to date we are on the same page,
basically,
our approach is to simplify it is just to be really truthful.
There's something about answering any questions that arise really truthfully.
(14:56):
But of course,
that's not enough.
We also have to decide on timing for,
I guess maybe introducing or review certain parts of information and the story in a way that we think is appropriate to their age and stage and you know what they're going through.
I think at the moment we'll probably always,
(15:17):
our view has been,
I don't know,
it's just that it's not it's not a big deal or not to make a big deal out of it.
I'm just really aware that,
you know,
a lot of the sort of judgments that we make about this,
this issue we can't make on behalf of the Children.
Even when I hear myself say it's not a big deal,
it may be a massive deal for them.
(15:39):
So,
but we just have to wait and see and um,
cross those bridges when we come to them and just yeah,
be as loving,
open.
Um,
and honest as we can be,
of course we've already had many,
many conversations about how our family came to be and we haven't the Children haven't really,
as far as we know,
(16:00):
been exposed to a level of detail about how that works.
Of course they understand that families have different um combinations of people.
We've talked a lot about the fact that we needed Peter and I needed doctors to help us and that other couples don't.
(16:20):
Yeah,
we've talked a lot about how hard we tried and all of the things that we did to bring them into the world because they because we wanted them so badly.
So they know all of that and they talk about that.
So with the um treatment that I had,
I conceived our child on my very last cycle of treatment,
(16:45):
so had decided that that was going to be the last one.
It was already At least a year over the deadline I'd previously set myself.
Um and um you know,
it really still does feel like quite a miracle.
Um it was transfer number 13.
Um and so our child knows all about that story and we tell that story um a lot around how special um they are because um it had taken so many tries and that was my absolute last try and um here they are.
(17:25):
Do they know the most usual way that a baby starts?
No,
I don't think so.
I mean unless I'm really,
really naive and they're talking about every day with their friends.
I don't know.
I mean they know a few swear words and they sort of know that certain swear words are rude and you know,
all of that.
But I really don't,
(17:46):
I really don't think that have a really clear understanding about how babies are made because of ideas and concepts and principles if you like,
but not the nuts and bolts just yet.
Yeah,
that's on the horizon.
Let me tell you,
I know it.
(18:08):
You spoke about letting them make their own decisions so that autonomy of going through that journey of finding out or not finding out about their donor.
Do you have a timeline?
Like do you have a age?
No,
not so much an age,
it's more it would be less around an age and more about,
(18:29):
um,
I guess other things,
other ways that we would assess readiness.
And part of it is just around the questioning and the types of questioning,
you know,
that we're getting so that that that's changing all the time.
And has,
even as recently as this week,
you know,
we've had a first conversation about,
um,
the donor and what that means.
So,
(18:49):
um,
we've always felt that it's more around just that ongoing assessment and judgment about,
I guess what they're ready for,
but also what they're seeking.
Um,
and when when I said earlier about not being a big deal,
I think part of what I meant was I would never want to set up a big reveal moment.
Like I just instinctively feel like that's something that is pretty risky I'm hoping and I feel more like it'll be a longer process of evolving conversations that are built into everyday life.
(19:22):
Um and yeah sure some of those might be more deliberate and might need to be more in depth but a lot of them are probably going to be all the other things we chat about daily.
I've just got one question for you.
What do you know about how you were made when you were born?
Well,
I know how well I know how babies are made and I know that it took you 13 tries I guess I know a bit.
(19:52):
I know but and I know where yeah,
I do Linda tried 13 times all know 12 and then on the 13th I was born and then you go inside Linda.
Yeah.
(20:12):
Yeah lucky 13.
My favorite number is 13.
Just as well.
Do you know how the doctors helped?
No,
not completely.
But you feel like when you,
when you're ready you could ask that information from linda.
Yeah.
Okay awesome.
Do you know how babies are made?
(20:34):
No,
that's all right.
That's not a test.
That was perfect.
Perfect answer.
Thank you.
Thank you so much to Sue Emily linda and Elsie and their families for letting their story be recorded and shared key things which stood out in this discussion for me are for both families.
(20:58):
The fact that they were making this recording triggered conversations about conception.
It doesn't come up every day.
So it was great to have created that opportunity.
Emily mentioned sex ed classes as a time where she could consolidate what she knew about reproduction and she remembers it.
School based RSC is a great place to clarify understanding linda talked about everyday conversations and creating opportunities for discussion about the big things like reproduction.
(21:32):
Often when I explain IVF in class,
students draw the conclusion that donating genetic material means that that person is a parent.
I always explain that the parents are the ones doing the parenting.
This podcast has been produced with the support of the victorian assisted reproductive treatment authority or vata.
(21:56):
For more information on them,
including resources about fertility donors,
surrogacy and assisted reproduction.
You can visit their website all linked to that in the show notes.
Also see the sexual health pictorial website for free classroom resources with tea activities for grade 3 to 10 about assisted reproduction technology.
Also a self paced online learning module to support that resource.
(22:20):
These were all produced in partnership between sexual health victoria and for more information about sexual health victoria.
Go to vic dot org dot au.
You can follow us on instagram facebook twitter linkedin,
contact me directly at doing it at vic dot org dot au if you like the podcast.
(22:41):
Please like it.
Subscribe.
So you don't miss out.
Thank you so much for listening.
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