October 1, 2024 • 31 mins
How old is too old to save a life? At the age of 74, Tom Duncan defied societal norms to become America's oldest non-directed living kidney donor, and his story will change the way you think about aging and altruism. Join us for an intimate conversation from his serene home in Ruidoso, New Mexico, where Tom recounts the journey that began with a friend's struggle with dialysis and led him to a life-altering decision. Discover the rigorous evaluation process, the misconceptions about age limits, and the emotional benefits of donation that go far beyond the physical act.
Tom's inspiring narrative challenges preconceived notions and societal perceptions. We also delve into the Living Kidney Donor Voucher Program, which enables donors to give the gift of life while providing future security for their loved ones. Despite his loved one receiving a kidney from another source, Tom's unwavering commitment to donation shines through. This episode is a heartfelt tribute to the power of giving at any age! Don't miss this chance to be inspired by stories of love, resilience, and selfless generosity. This episode is dedicated to Ernie and David.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Donor Diaries, a podcast that explores
how people are changing livesthrough the powerful act of
living donation.
Tune in to discover howkindness, love and simple acts
of giving are transforming livesevery day.
Welcome back, I'm your host,lori Lee, and this is the
(00:48):
kickoff to Season 3 of DonorDiaries.
Get ready for another excitingseason featuring interviews with
living donors, transplantrecipients and experts who share
powerful stories and discusslatest innovations in the
transplant world.
You know there's a few thingsthey say maybe you shouldn't do
after you turn 70, like switchfrom an Apple iPhone to an
(01:09):
Android or clean your owngutters.
But donating a kidney, it turnsout.
While it's not all too commonto donate after you turn 70,
it's totally doable for somehealthy seniors.
Transplant centers have varyingage limits for donors,
typically between the ages of 18and 69, though some will adjust
their upper age limit for ahealthy senior donor.
(01:31):
The key is to let thetransplant center make that
decision.
Don't count yourself out beforethey do.
In 2019, an 84-year-old manfrom Texas became the oldest
living kidney donor in the USwhen he donated to his
72-year-old neighbor.
You never know unless you try.
Today we're chatting with myfriend, tom Duncan, who, well
(01:54):
into his 70s, decided to donatea kidney.
We'll dive into what motivatedhim, discuss his experience with
the evaluation and donationprocess, and celebrate how
people of all ages are steppingup to make a difference.
First of all, welcome to DonorDiaries, tom, I'm happy to have
you as a guest today.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Great to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So tell us a little bit about yourself.
You look like you're inbeautiful New Mexico right now.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I'm in the southeastern New Mexico.
The best locator is simply, ifyou can picture, about 120 miles
north, straight north of ElPaso, Texas.
That's a little town calledRiodosa, New Mexico.
It's very dry, very dry, andit's just a pleasant little town
of 8,500, and we've certainlycome to love it quite quickly of
(02:45):
$8,500, and we've certainlycome to love it quite quickly.
Retired my wife and, as I say,our children don't have tails.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
They're two rescues and they might join the podcast
a little later.
So, tom, the reason you and Ioriginally connected is we were
in an Ask Me Anything calltogether and you and I were put
in the same room, and what madeyou interesting to me is that
you are somebody who donated alittle bit later in life.
So can I just get personal withyou and ask you how old you are
and what your birthday is?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
I'm 75 years old, my birthdayis September 16th, 1948.
And I've been identified as theoldest non-directed living
donor in America.
And I want to add this I'vejust received a call from
someone that's 75 years oldthat's contemplating a kidney
(03:38):
donation, and I want to givethem the belt, so it'd be great
if they proceed.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Well, nobody wants to be called old, but that's a
pretty neat title to hold.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It was something that was mentioned to me.
About two months after donationI went oh really, well, how
nice, but it's been really goodfrom this standpoint.
There's so many misconceptionsabout kidney donation.
I mean, it's just hard tofathom, and it's nice to be able
to share my experience and thathas also given some hope to
(04:12):
people in their 50s that havefamily or friends that are in
need of a kidney and they'vebeen afraid to proceed because
they thought they were too old.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, I know they rule themselves out sometimes
when maybe they wouldn't beruled out if they stepped
forward were too old.
Yeah, I know they rulethemselves out sometimes when
maybe they wouldn't be ruled outif they stepped forward to be
tested.
So how old were you when youdonated?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
74.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Okay, and so there's a 75-year-old that might take
the throne.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Let's hope so.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Let's hope so.
What made you want to donate?
How did kidney donation evencome onto your radar?
I absolutely knew nothing about.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
How did kidney donation even come onto your
radar?
I absolutely knew nothing aboutkidneys or kidney donation and
a good friend not a bestie, buta good friend was on dialysis,
also knew nothing about dialysis, and that's where I learned
about the horrors of dialysis.
He would come home from asession.
He was too weak to talk on thephone and I thought that was
(05:05):
some magic elixir that you justkind of got plugged in and
cleaned out and then you wentand played golf and so he was on
dialysis for 17 or 18 monthsand it stopped working, which is
he was 67, 68 at the time.
And again I thought that wasjust a permanent inconvenience
(05:25):
that you dealt with in kidneyfailure and so he became very
ill.
And if this was the other thingabout dialysis, it's just it's
always something.
There's some infection, they'redoing blood work every week and
potassium's too high,magnesium's too low.
It's not just the act of thedialysis.
(05:49):
It stopped working and going toneed a kidney.
So he asked.
He said, would you see if youqualify?
Well, I thought, oh my gosh,this is like a heart transplant
or something.
I said all you got to do isjust see if you qualify.
It starts with a about a 45minute extremely thorough
(06:09):
medical history questionnaire onthe internet, and so I did that
and I got a pretty quick callto invited to continue.
My wife got a pretty quickrejection and so at this point
we're in Wyoming, we had a cabinthere, we're in the process of
(06:33):
moving to New Mexico.
And I got the call.
I said essentially, they saidyou have four to six weeks to
live, and so I'm justunavailable.
I can't be available because tostart the testing which takes
about on a fast track, maybethree days I'm not available for
two months.
Only 14 people came forward tosee if they would qualify.
(06:56):
Only two of us were passed on.
This other person actually evenhad the same blood type, which
was a B blood type, and so myfriend Ernie got a kidney July
27th of 2022.
But I got to tell you there wasa certain degree of relief in me
(07:17):
Okay, I don't have to do this,I'm serious.
So the phone rang 10 days afterErnie got his kidney and it was
a transplant center in Austinand they said your recipient
received a kidney.
I said I know that.
They said would you considermoving forward as a donor?
(07:44):
I went let me think about this.
Here was the thought process.
Why did I do it in the firstplace?
And it's really simple.
It's not very complicated.
My friend absolutely had nohope.
None, 68, now he's 69 years old.
That was the reason that I hadmade that decision in the first
(08:04):
place.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
So I called him back and said yeah, let's talk to my
wife and my children, and Icalled him back and said, yeah,
let's go move ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So that started what I like to call the $20,000 free
physical.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And I thought you just had dogs.
So did you have to consult withthe dogs, or do you have
children as well?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
They love me no matter what.
So, but thank you formentioning that, because that
became an issue later on.
So that started the testing,and it started with the blood
work, the chest x-rays, thekidney function test
non-invasive, I guess you'd callit.
(08:45):
So then the team had toevaluate each of those tests and
whatnot, and then it brought inthe other people the donor
surgeon, the recipient surgeon,dietician, patient advocate I'm
leaving a couple out financialassistants.
There's about nine or 10 peopleon the team that vote and each
(09:06):
of them has the ability to stopthe process.
So that's what led me to thepoint of leading up to surgery
day and what you know.
I should need to point this out,but this is really important.
They made two things very, veryclear.
Number one the recipient's sick.
We're not going to do anythingto jeopardize your health or
safety, and they meant it.
(09:28):
I mean that was clearthroughout the whole process,
and the other part of theprocess was, at any time, if I
changed my mind, all I have todo is say I don't wish to
continue and there's not goingto be any.
Well, you know, matter of fact,every conversation started with
are you sure you want tocontinue?
There was zero pressure and youknow I felt protected the whole
(09:48):
time.
There was really no fear as theprocess unfolded, but the only
fear was what's next?
You know, because obviously younever get a chance to do this
twice.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Can we back up a little bit to the decision you
made to continue through testing, even though your loved one got
a kidney?
You kind of felt a sense ofrelief that he got a kidney.
Had you at any point consideredthat if he got a kidney from a
different source, that you wouldcontinue forward to help
somebody different?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
No, not for one minute.
No, I thought the process wasover, because the process was
over until the phone rang, andso that was what brought up the
conversation with my wife, mytwo daughters and I mentioned it
to a couple of people, andtheir action was not very
(10:38):
positive.
It was like why would you dothat?
Well, that went into the.
I witnessed the suffering thatmy friend went through, and
there's more of the story.
I should tell you this aboutthis fellow, ernie.
Ernie was always someone thatwas helping someone else, always
, and you'd ask Ernie, say hey,ernie, what have you been up to?
(11:00):
Oh, nothing much, you know,just busy.
Then you'd talk to someone elseand they'd say, so, yeah, I
just talked to Ernie and they'dsay, well, he's taking groceries
to some person, or he's takingsomeone to a doctor's
appointment, or he's cuttingsomeone's grass.
He never talked about what hewas doing.
It was the hey, look at me,stuff.
And so that had a.
(11:24):
How does that translate intotelling someone about?
Well, here's why I'm doing it,because of this person's
commitment to others and thesuffering that I watched him go
through.
So that was that's why Istopped really even discussing
it, even mentioning it to anyoneelse.
The the decision process.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So you got inspired.
Is what happened.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, that's, that's it, quietly, inspired.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
It's interesting because this does happen from
time to time where somebodysteps forward to help someone
they love and then they end uphelping somebody else.
But I think a lot of peoplefeel that that you described and
you know it takes a differenttype of person to say I want to
do it anyway, I want to helpsomebody else.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I think we're led to this, and that's all I'm going
to say about that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Some wise words.
Many older people get ruled outfor one reason or another.
Tell us a little bit about yourlife.
Have you had a healthy life?
Is there anything that made youan exceptional candidate?
Like you, are powered by greenjuice and complete Ironmans.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Oh God, no, I smoked for 20 years.
I mean, is there anythingdumber than that?
And quit in 1991.
Fortunately I dodged thatbullet.
No, actually my exerciseregimen started at the age of 50
.
I had a friend that was awalker.
I said, oh, that sounds likesomething I could do.
I tried running at one time andthat didn't work for me.
(12:53):
I didn't like that at all, andso I lived in an interesting
neighborhood in Salt Lake Citycalled the Avenues it's the
oldest neighborhood and so I hada little walking course about
two and a half miles and I couldjust walk out my front door and
I would be in these beautifulold homes and that was what
started my exercise routine.
And I would be in thesebeautiful old homes and that was
what started my exerciseroutine.
(13:14):
I liked it, and so then I foundout, hey, there's some mental
benefits.
You know, the mind kind ofstops.
And so I've said, yeah, I'mreally liking this, so I'd be on
the route for six or seven daysa week, and that's really what
started it.
I've never been to a health foodbar Not that there's anything
(13:35):
wrong with that but I was notthe historically correct
candidate.
You know, you start to getexercise and you start to eat a
little healthier and somehowhealthy people come into your
life and so that kind of vibestarts to happen.
But no, I guess probably theshort version of this is I
(13:59):
inherited wonderful genes frommy parents.
The stupidity of younger yearswas overcome by great genetics,
and then, as I've come, Istarted swimming about 10 years
ago, and so if there's a poolI'm going to be swimming in it.
So the health thing kind ofgrows on itself, and so that's
really the basis of how come a74-year-old man can qualify to
(14:23):
donate a kidney.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So what was your evaluation like?
Was there anything differentabout it related to your age?
Did they handle you with gentlecare?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
No, no, I think there was some elbowing, like that
guy over there, he's thinkingabout donating a kidney.
But no, no, it was juststraightforward.
I mean, it was a process ofwhich there were steps to go
through.
Matter of fact, I was the onethat, as these interviews went
through with the differentpeople in the transplant team, I
(14:55):
was the one that brought up myage.
I said you know, sure, this isa good idea.
And here's I think you probablyexperienced this too.
Different centers havedifferent cutoffs.
Some centers have a 70-yearcutoff, Some have a 75.
Some say it's totally dependentupon the test as far as your
qualification.
Some say it's totally dependentupon the test as far as your
qualification.
So I was just another bozo onthe bus as far as going through
(15:17):
the testing.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Did they make you aware of any additional risks
that would apply to seniors only?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
No, I had two risks One I brought with me and one I
was introduced to.
They said kidney donors canexperience hernia.
I mentioned that to donorsurgeons.
Don't worry about it.
I said I've never had it happen.
I said okay, and the other partwas that you know.
I thought, well, you know whatabout for someone my age?
(15:46):
What about a stroke?
I wasn't worried about death.
I mean, I mentioned that,statistically, kidney donation
is safer than childbirth.
But I was wondering about youknow what about a stroke?
Your cardiovascular system isprobably equal to that of a
50-year-old, so you have noconcerns there.
(16:06):
So let's rock on.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
And what about your recovery?
Do you feel like you had adifferent type of recovery
compared to other donors you'vespoken to, based on your age?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I did.
I did.
It was much easier and quicker.
It's amazing, the people I'vetalked to no, I'm serious.
Two weeks after surgery I couldhave gone back to work Light
duty, no lifting, half days.
Four weeks I could have clearlygone back to work full time.
And six weeks after surgery I'mswimming every day and people
(16:41):
talk about and everyone'sdifferent.
Let's face that, and I wasn'ttrying to be, you know, mr
Wonder man or anything like that.
I was just the first 10 daysafter surgery I watched all 63
episodes of Downton Abbey which,by the way, you need to do if
you haven't and if anything, Ihope every recovery is like mine
(17:03):
.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, your son's significantly easier than mine,
and I donated when I was 36.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Oh yeah, you know what it's the old story Time
takes time.
My time might be different inyours, but so it's just roll
with it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
That's amazing.
I'm glad you had such an easyrecovery.
What did your generation offriends and family think about
you doing this at your age?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Think I'm crazy.
No, no, here's what happens.
I'll mention this to someoneand they will physically kind of
like start inching back, like Ihope you're not planning on
asking me to do this.
Here's a good example.
My wife is an RN.
She's been a nurse for 45 years.
She knew absolutely nothingabout kidneys nothing.
(17:48):
She was never in an area wherethat was even associated in some
way, shape or form.
This is what society is liketoday.
It just is.
And what I tell people is thisslow down, stop.
Take the 45-minute medicalquestionnaire, just relax and
(18:09):
see if you qualify.
No one's going to push you.
No one's going to prod you.
No one's going to push you.
No one's going to prod you.
No one's going to.
You know, shame you or anythinglike this about gee, there's so
many people on the waiting list.
See if you qualify and then youcan decide if and when you want
to go move forward.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
And don't rule yourself.
That's what I would say tothese older folks is oh, I just
assume that I'm not qualifiedbecause of X, y or Z, but it's
pretty incredible how the bodycan recover at any age if you're
an overall healthy person.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Absolutely, and the well.
Here's the perfect example ismy own home, my wife.
She was immediately rejected.
They said thank you so much.
We're grateful for you takingthe time to see if you would
qualify, but I think in her caseshe'd had one too many
surgeries or something, so don'tworry.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
What's the biggest benefit you've felt by donating
a kidney?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't think they've invented words yet.
I don't.
I've heard it described as oneof our mutual friends that it's
a waterfall of joy.
I get very sensitive.
Matter of fact, at first Ididn't tell anyone.
I was very regarded, who I toldabout donating a kidney because
they started this hero businessand I just lightened up.
(19:32):
I did something out of theordinary that had a very
extraordinary outcome for fornot only one person but but in
my own case, 17 other people,the family members, and so
that's the best I can come upwith.
It's just this internal joythat I don't need to advertise.
Well, I can't.
(19:56):
I still haven't found the words.
So sorry, that's not a verygood answer, but it's the best I
can come up with.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
You had a special opportunity to meet your
recipient.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Do you want to share a little bit about how that came
about?
I should have some Kleenex.
This was a non-directeddonation and either side has the
option to keep it totallyanonymous.
And some people do and somepeople don't, and it's that
simple.
And so I did.
And so here's the way thatworks.
Is you pass a note to thecoordinator If you'd like to
talk, if you'd like to havecoffee, I'm willing.
(20:30):
Here's my phone number.
My prayers in this were allstarted with.
To whom it may concern, Ididn't know if it was a man or
woman in Chicago or Californiaor anywhere in the United States
.
I mean, didn't know their ageor anything.
That's the way it should be.
It's very, very confidential.
I didn't hear anythingconfidential.
(20:55):
I didn't hear anything the dayof surgery, when I was in the
room, the coordinator came inand I said how's the donor?
The donor happened, or therecipient happened to be in the
same hospital.
Matter of fact, they happenedto be in the next OR, next OR,
(21:17):
and they said he.
So.
The first time I found out thejanitor, he's doing great.
He passed urine, which is thetest, while he was on the table.
That's the first test that thetransplant's working.
I start crying.
I just start crying because youknow it's all worthwhile.
That was the whole deal, and sothat was it.
(21:41):
That was it.
So it was about two months afterI'm sitting in the kitchen and
the phone rang.
Like most people, if I don'trecognize the number, I let it
go to voicemail.
But I picked it up and thisvoice came up and said said you
(22:01):
don't know me?
Oh, and I knew exactly who itwas.
Oh, I did.
He went on and said name'sDavid, 70 years old.
Totally given up hope.
There was no hope.
Nobody's going to get a kidwho's 70, you know, from a
non-directed donor.
And said he's doing great, andso we arranged to meet.
(22:28):
He's a Hispanic guy, so it kindof is a cultural thing.
He brought the whole familyRight and so it was.
That was good.
But there was nothing like thatphone call.
How do you tell someone aboutthat?
There was no doubt in my mindwas it all worthwhile?
(22:49):
Would I do it again?
Absolutely.
But that was like the crowningmoment, that yeah you know, what
Thumbs up.
There's one thing I want to add,laurie, about this process that
you'd ask about.
I like to say that I wentskipping and singing through
this process.
(23:09):
From now on, it became anon-directed donation to a
stranger, and so, you know, Istarted praying for a sign.
You know what I really like is,like a cheap hotel, a neon sign
that flashed yeah, this is whatyou want to do.
Okay, so this fellow that Ireally didn't know that well,
(23:30):
kind of called me out of theblue and said, hey, he said I
heard something really goodtoday.
I said oh, okay, what is it?
He said let me see if I gotthis right.
He said we all can't do greatthings, but we all can do small
things with great love.
Boom, there's the answer.
As it turns out, I looked it upas Mother Teresa said that, I
(23:54):
said well, that's why I'm here,that's what this thing is all
about.
So that was just kind of mylittle moment of clarity, or
said, yeah, you're on the righttrack.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
That was your flashing neon sign.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to interject that.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
No, I think it's beautiful.
We so often hear donors talkabout signs or how one thing
aligned after the next to makeit possible to donate, and I
think that's one of thebeautiful parts about donation.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Oh, I need to go back to David real quick.
This is what I forgot.
As we got to talk, I said well,when did you get the call that
they had a kidney for you?
Remember I said that at 70,there was no hope.
And he said he got the call.
And he said I'm sorry you hadthe wrong number.
And they said no, no, no, thisis David so-and-so.
(24:50):
And he said he couldn't believeit.
He said he was looking at thephone like there's really a
kidney Really.
So, anyhow it was maybe I thinksomething's lost in the trans
translation because, uh, hewon't he argued with him that
they had they had the wrongperson.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So, as it turned out, it was the right person wow,
had he been pursuing livingdonation or had he just kind of
decided to stay on dialysis?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
no, he had.
He had not pursued.
He needed a guide for thesystem that's my impression and
there wasn't one.
And so, as far as trying toactively do the things to
improve his chances of finding adonor, I think that was pretty
(25:38):
elementary, if much at all.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
So if Ernie had never been on dialysis, david
probably wouldn't have a newkidney right now.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
No, no, absolutely not.
Low chance, no chance, yeah,and this is what I keep going
back to.
This is my biggest job today asa donor, the way I feel it is
Anything that I can do to nothype donation no, that's the
worst thing I could do.
But just to help clear up thesemany misconceptions, like am I
(26:08):
walking with a cane now becauseI donated a kidney?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So someone said that to you, Tom.
They wanted to know if you'rethe cane after this.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
That's not the best one.
The best one is someone said,well, does that affect your, you
know?
I said no, I don't know.
They said, well, you know, doesthat affect your?
And I said, oh no no, no, ithas no effect on other things.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Matter of fact, this is sex.
Sorry, I just wanted you toclarify that for the audience
you asked.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
But so this is what I tell everyone.
I say I cannot tell thedifference between one kidney
and two.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Well, congratulations to you being the oldest
non-directed donor.
I did look it up to see howmany people in your age range
donate each year.
Do you have any idea how manynon-directed donors there are in
your age range?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I think the latest statistic I heard was between
300 and 350 total non-directeddonors.
Is that pretty close?
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So of all ages in 2023, there were 406
non-directed donors and only 29were age 65 or above, so you're
part of a very small minority.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Let's make it bigger.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Let's make it bigger.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I have a feeling you're just the guy to do that.
Well, you can go to the.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
AARP meetings and preach about kidney donation.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I think that's my mission in life really.
It's just to say hey.
First of all, relax, take iteasy, let's see if you qualify,
and there will be tremendouspeople to walk with you step by
step, and you're one of them.
The high point of my day ismeeting other donors.
(28:01):
The second high point of my dayis meeting other donors.
The second high point of my dayis meeting other recipients.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So that's where I'm coming from.
Well, thank you for sharingyour story with us today and
congratulations to you on asuccessful donation and a really
beautiful and inspiring story.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Well, Lori, it's been so nice talking with you and
look forward to visiting withyou in the future.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
What I love about Tom's story is that it showcases
something we occasionally seewith donors that is truly
inspiring.
Despite his loved one receivinga kidney from another source
during his own evaluationprocess, tom stayed committed
and chose to help someone elsein need, just because In some
(28:46):
instances, these donors becomevoucher donors, ensuring their
loved one has access to a kidneyin the future if another
transplant is ever needed.
Just consider the impact ofthis for a second.
Not only does a patient receivea life-saving kidney from a
living donor today, but theyalso gain the reassurance that a
future transplant is guaranteedif necessary.
(29:06):
This is especially crucial foryounger recipients, who may
require multiple transplantsover the course of their
lifetime.
If your loved one receives akidney before you have a chance
to finish your evaluation anddonate yours, you can still make
a profound difference forsomeone else in need if you want
to do that.
It's okay and perfectly normalto fall in love with the idea of
(29:36):
giving along the way.
This season of Donor Diaries isproudly sponsored by GiftWorks,
an organization dedicated toempowering organ recipients and
living donors through education,advocacy and support.
By helping patients share theirjourneys and connect with
donors, giftworks ensureseveryone feels supported
throughout the transplantprocess.
We're honored to partner with ateam that's transforming lives,
one transplant at a time.
(29:57):
To learn more, visityourgiftworkscom.
Join us next month as DonorDiaries goes international for
the first time, with aninspiring interview from Munich,
germany.
We'll be talking tonon-directed donor Will Johnson
to get a glimpse into how livingdonation and paired exchange
works in Germany.
Can't wait to share ourafternoon in Munich with you.
(30:19):
Remember, every act of kindnesscreates ripples.
Thanks for listening and keepspreading those positive vibes.
This is Lori Lee signing off.
(30:42):
I just want to feel thesunshine.
I just want to feel thesunshine.
I share this life with you.
I share this life with you.
Welcome to Donor Diaries, a podcast that explores
how people are changing livesthrough the powerful act of
living donation.
Tune in to discover howkindness, love and simple acts
of giving are transforming livesevery day.
Welcome back, I'm your host,lori Lee, and this is the
(00:48):
kickoff to Season 3 of DonorDiaries.
Get ready for another excitingseason featuring interviews with
living donors, transplantrecipients and experts who share
powerful stories and discusslatest innovations in the
transplant world.
You know there's a few thingsthey say maybe you shouldn't do
after you turn 70, like switchfrom an Apple iPhone to an
(01:09):
Android or clean your owngutters.
But donating a kidney, it turnsout.
While it's not all too commonto donate after you turn 70,
it's totally doable for somehealthy seniors.
Transplant centers have varyingage limits for donors,
typically between the ages of 18and 69, though some will adjust
their upper age limit for ahealthy senior donor.
(01:31):
The key is to let thetransplant center make that
decision.
Don't count yourself out beforethey do.
In 2019, an 84-year-old manfrom Texas became the oldest
living kidney donor in the USwhen he donated to his
72-year-old neighbor.
You never know unless you try.
Today we're chatting with myfriend, tom Duncan, who, well
(01:54):
into his 70s, decided to donatea kidney.
We'll dive into what motivatedhim, discuss his experience with
the evaluation and donationprocess, and celebrate how
people of all ages are steppingup to make a difference.
First of all, welcome to DonorDiaries, tom, I'm happy to have
you as a guest today.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Great to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So tell us a little bit about yourself.
You look like you're inbeautiful New Mexico right now.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I'm in the southeastern New Mexico.
The best locator is simply, ifyou can picture, about 120 miles
north, straight north of ElPaso, Texas.
That's a little town calledRiodosa, New Mexico.
It's very dry, very dry, andit's just a pleasant little town
of 8,500, and we've certainlycome to love it quite quickly of
(02:45):
$8,500, and we've certainlycome to love it quite quickly.
Retired my wife and, as I say,our children don't have tails.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
They're two rescues and they might join the podcast
a little later.
So, tom, the reason you and Ioriginally connected is we were
in an Ask Me Anything calltogether and you and I were put
in the same room, and what madeyou interesting to me is that
you are somebody who donated alittle bit later in life.
So can I just get personal withyou and ask you how old you are
and what your birthday is?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
I'm 75 years old, my birthdayis September 16th, 1948.
And I've been identified as theoldest non-directed living
donor in America.
And I want to add this I'vejust received a call from
someone that's 75 years oldthat's contemplating a kidney
(03:38):
donation, and I want to givethem the belt, so it'd be great
if they proceed.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Well, nobody wants to be called old, but that's a
pretty neat title to hold.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It was something that was mentioned to me.
About two months after donationI went oh really, well, how
nice, but it's been really goodfrom this standpoint.
There's so many misconceptionsabout kidney donation.
I mean, it's just hard tofathom, and it's nice to be able
to share my experience and thathas also given some hope to
(04:12):
people in their 50s that havefamily or friends that are in
need of a kidney and they'vebeen afraid to proceed because
they thought they were too old.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, I know they rule themselves out sometimes
when maybe they wouldn't beruled out if they stepped
forward were too old.
Yeah, I know they rulethemselves out sometimes when
maybe they wouldn't be ruled outif they stepped forward to be
tested.
So how old were you when youdonated?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
74.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Okay, and so there's a 75-year-old that might take
the throne.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Let's hope so.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Let's hope so.
What made you want to donate?
How did kidney donation evencome onto your radar?
I absolutely knew nothing about.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
How did kidney donation even come onto your
radar?
I absolutely knew nothing aboutkidneys or kidney donation and
a good friend not a bestie, buta good friend was on dialysis,
also knew nothing about dialysis, and that's where I learned
about the horrors of dialysis.
He would come home from asession.
He was too weak to talk on thephone and I thought that was
(05:05):
some magic elixir that you justkind of got plugged in and
cleaned out and then you wentand played golf and so he was on
dialysis for 17 or 18 monthsand it stopped working, which is
he was 67, 68 at the time.
And again I thought that wasjust a permanent inconvenience
(05:25):
that you dealt with in kidneyfailure and so he became very
ill.
And if this was the other thingabout dialysis, it's just it's
always something.
There's some infection, they'redoing blood work every week and
potassium's too high,magnesium's too low.
It's not just the act of thedialysis.
(05:49):
It stopped working and going toneed a kidney.
So he asked.
He said, would you see if youqualify?
Well, I thought, oh my gosh,this is like a heart transplant
or something.
I said all you got to do isjust see if you qualify.
It starts with a about a 45minute extremely thorough
(06:09):
medical history questionnaire onthe internet, and so I did that
and I got a pretty quick callto invited to continue.
My wife got a pretty quickrejection and so at this point
we're in Wyoming, we had a cabinthere, we're in the process of
(06:33):
moving to New Mexico.
And I got the call.
I said essentially, they saidyou have four to six weeks to
live, and so I'm justunavailable.
I can't be available because tostart the testing which takes
about on a fast track, maybethree days I'm not available for
two months.
Only 14 people came forward tosee if they would qualify.
(06:56):
Only two of us were passed on.
This other person actually evenhad the same blood type, which
was a B blood type, and so myfriend Ernie got a kidney July
27th of 2022.
But I got to tell you there wasa certain degree of relief in me
(07:17):
Okay, I don't have to do this,I'm serious.
So the phone rang 10 days afterErnie got his kidney and it was
a transplant center in Austinand they said your recipient
received a kidney.
I said I know that.
They said would you considermoving forward as a donor?
(07:44):
I went let me think about this.
Here was the thought process.
Why did I do it in the firstplace?
And it's really simple.
It's not very complicated.
My friend absolutely had nohope.
None, 68, now he's 69 years old.
That was the reason that I hadmade that decision in the first
(08:04):
place.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
So I called him back and said yeah, let's talk to my
wife and my children, and Icalled him back and said, yeah,
let's go move ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So that started what I like to call the $20,000 free
physical.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And I thought you just had dogs.
So did you have to consult withthe dogs, or do you have
children as well?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
They love me no matter what.
So, but thank you formentioning that, because that
became an issue later on.
So that started the testing,and it started with the blood
work, the chest x-rays, thekidney function test
non-invasive, I guess you'd callit.
(08:45):
So then the team had toevaluate each of those tests and
whatnot, and then it brought inthe other people the donor
surgeon, the recipient surgeon,dietician, patient advocate I'm
leaving a couple out financialassistants.
There's about nine or 10 peopleon the team that vote and each
(09:06):
of them has the ability to stopthe process.
So that's what led me to thepoint of leading up to surgery
day and what you know.
I should need to point this out,but this is really important.
They made two things very, veryclear.
Number one the recipient's sick.
We're not going to do anythingto jeopardize your health or
safety, and they meant it.
(09:28):
I mean that was clearthroughout the whole process,
and the other part of theprocess was, at any time, if I
changed my mind, all I have todo is say I don't wish to
continue and there's not goingto be any.
Well, you know, matter of fact,every conversation started with
are you sure you want tocontinue?
There was zero pressure and youknow I felt protected the whole
(09:48):
time.
There was really no fear as theprocess unfolded, but the only
fear was what's next?
You know, because obviously younever get a chance to do this
twice.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Can we back up a little bit to the decision you
made to continue through testing, even though your loved one got
a kidney?
You kind of felt a sense ofrelief that he got a kidney.
Had you at any point consideredthat if he got a kidney from a
different source, that you wouldcontinue forward to help
somebody different?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
No, not for one minute.
No, I thought the process wasover, because the process was
over until the phone rang, andso that was what brought up the
conversation with my wife, mytwo daughters and I mentioned it
to a couple of people, andtheir action was not very
(10:38):
positive.
It was like why would you dothat?
Well, that went into the.
I witnessed the suffering thatmy friend went through, and
there's more of the story.
I should tell you this aboutthis fellow, ernie.
Ernie was always someone thatwas helping someone else, always
, and you'd ask Ernie, say hey,ernie, what have you been up to?
(11:00):
Oh, nothing much, you know,just busy.
Then you'd talk to someone elseand they'd say, so, yeah, I
just talked to Ernie and they'dsay, well, he's taking groceries
to some person, or he's takingsomeone to a doctor's
appointment, or he's cuttingsomeone's grass.
He never talked about what hewas doing.
It was the hey, look at me,stuff.
And so that had a.
(11:24):
How does that translate intotelling someone about?
Well, here's why I'm doing it,because of this person's
commitment to others and thesuffering that I watched him go
through.
So that was that's why Istopped really even discussing
it, even mentioning it to anyoneelse.
The the decision process.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So you got inspired.
Is what happened.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, that's, that's it, quietly, inspired.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
It's interesting because this does happen from
time to time where somebodysteps forward to help someone
they love and then they end uphelping somebody else.
But I think a lot of peoplefeel that that you described and
you know it takes a differenttype of person to say I want to
do it anyway, I want to helpsomebody else.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I think we're led to this, and that's all I'm going
to say about that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Some wise words.
Many older people get ruled outfor one reason or another.
Tell us a little bit about yourlife.
Have you had a healthy life?
Is there anything that made youan exceptional candidate?
Like you, are powered by greenjuice and complete Ironmans.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Oh God, no, I smoked for 20 years.
I mean, is there anythingdumber than that?
And quit in 1991.
Fortunately I dodged thatbullet.
No, actually my exerciseregimen started at the age of 50
.
I had a friend that was awalker.
I said, oh, that sounds likesomething I could do.
I tried running at one time andthat didn't work for me.
(12:53):
I didn't like that at all, andso I lived in an interesting
neighborhood in Salt Lake Citycalled the Avenues it's the
oldest neighborhood and so I hada little walking course about
two and a half miles and I couldjust walk out my front door and
I would be in these beautifulold homes and that was what
started my exercise routine.
And I would be in thesebeautiful old homes and that was
what started my exerciseroutine.
(13:14):
I liked it, and so then I foundout, hey, there's some mental
benefits.
You know, the mind kind ofstops.
And so I've said, yeah, I'mreally liking this, so I'd be on
the route for six or seven daysa week, and that's really what
started it.
I've never been to a health foodbar Not that there's anything
(13:35):
wrong with that but I was notthe historically correct
candidate.
You know, you start to getexercise and you start to eat a
little healthier and somehowhealthy people come into your
life and so that kind of vibestarts to happen.
But no, I guess probably theshort version of this is I
(13:59):
inherited wonderful genes frommy parents.
The stupidity of younger yearswas overcome by great genetics,
and then, as I've come, Istarted swimming about 10 years
ago, and so if there's a poolI'm going to be swimming in it.
So the health thing kind ofgrows on itself, and so that's
really the basis of how come a74-year-old man can qualify to
(14:23):
donate a kidney.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So what was your evaluation like?
Was there anything differentabout it related to your age?
Did they handle you with gentlecare?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
No, no, I think there was some elbowing, like that
guy over there, he's thinkingabout donating a kidney.
But no, no, it was juststraightforward.
I mean, it was a process ofwhich there were steps to go
through.
Matter of fact, I was the onethat, as these interviews went
through with the differentpeople in the transplant team, I
(14:55):
was the one that brought up myage.
I said you know, sure, this isa good idea.
And here's I think you probablyexperienced this too.
Different centers havedifferent cutoffs.
Some centers have a 70-yearcutoff, Some have a 75.
Some say it's totally dependentupon the test as far as your
qualification.
Some say it's totally dependentupon the test as far as your
qualification.
So I was just another bozo onthe bus as far as going through
(15:17):
the testing.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Did they make you aware of any additional risks
that would apply to seniors only?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
No, I had two risks One I brought with me and one I
was introduced to.
They said kidney donors canexperience hernia.
I mentioned that to donorsurgeons.
Don't worry about it.
I said I've never had it happen.
I said okay, and the other partwas that you know.
I thought, well, you know whatabout for someone my age?
(15:46):
What about a stroke?
I wasn't worried about death.
I mean, I mentioned that,statistically, kidney donation
is safer than childbirth.
But I was wondering about youknow what about a stroke?
Your cardiovascular system isprobably equal to that of a
50-year-old, so you have noconcerns there.
(16:06):
So let's rock on.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
And what about your recovery?
Do you feel like you had adifferent type of recovery
compared to other donors you'vespoken to, based on your age?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I did.
I did.
It was much easier and quicker.
It's amazing, the people I'vetalked to no, I'm serious.
Two weeks after surgery I couldhave gone back to work Light
duty, no lifting, half days.
Four weeks I could have clearlygone back to work full time.
And six weeks after surgery I'mswimming every day and people
(16:41):
talk about and everyone'sdifferent.
Let's face that, and I wasn'ttrying to be, you know, mr
Wonder man or anything like that.
I was just the first 10 daysafter surgery I watched all 63
episodes of Downton Abbey which,by the way, you need to do if
you haven't and if anything, Ihope every recovery is like mine
(17:03):
.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, your son's significantly easier than mine,
and I donated when I was 36.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Oh yeah, you know what it's the old story Time
takes time.
My time might be different inyours, but so it's just roll
with it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
That's amazing.
I'm glad you had such an easyrecovery.
What did your generation offriends and family think about
you doing this at your age?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Think I'm crazy.
No, no, here's what happens.
I'll mention this to someoneand they will physically kind of
like start inching back, like Ihope you're not planning on
asking me to do this.
Here's a good example.
My wife is an RN.
She's been a nurse for 45 years.
She knew absolutely nothingabout kidneys nothing.
(17:48):
She was never in an area wherethat was even associated in some
way, shape or form.
This is what society is liketoday.
It just is.
And what I tell people is thisslow down, stop.
Take the 45-minute medicalquestionnaire, just relax and
(18:09):
see if you qualify.
No one's going to push you.
No one's going to prod you.
No one's going to push you.
No one's going to prod you.
No one's going to.
You know, shame you or anythinglike this about gee, there's so
many people on the waiting list.
See if you qualify and then youcan decide if and when you want
to go move forward.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
And don't rule yourself.
That's what I would say tothese older folks is oh, I just
assume that I'm not qualifiedbecause of X, y or Z, but it's
pretty incredible how the bodycan recover at any age if you're
an overall healthy person.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Absolutely, and the well.
Here's the perfect example ismy own home, my wife.
She was immediately rejected.
They said thank you so much.
We're grateful for you takingthe time to see if you would
qualify, but I think in her caseshe'd had one too many
surgeries or something, so don'tworry.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
What's the biggest benefit you've felt by donating
a kidney?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't think they've invented words yet.
I don't.
I've heard it described as oneof our mutual friends that it's
a waterfall of joy.
I get very sensitive.
Matter of fact, at first Ididn't tell anyone.
I was very regarded, who I toldabout donating a kidney because
they started this hero businessand I just lightened up.
(19:32):
I did something out of theordinary that had a very
extraordinary outcome for fornot only one person but but in
my own case, 17 other people,the family members, and so
that's the best I can come upwith.
It's just this internal joythat I don't need to advertise.
Well, I can't.
(19:56):
I still haven't found the words.
So sorry, that's not a verygood answer, but it's the best I
can come up with.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
You had a special opportunity to meet your
recipient.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Do you want to share a little bit about how that came
about?
I should have some Kleenex.
This was a non-directeddonation and either side has the
option to keep it totallyanonymous.
And some people do and somepeople don't, and it's that
simple.
And so I did.
And so here's the way thatworks.
Is you pass a note to thecoordinator If you'd like to
talk, if you'd like to havecoffee, I'm willing.
(20:30):
Here's my phone number.
My prayers in this were allstarted with.
To whom it may concern, Ididn't know if it was a man or
woman in Chicago or Californiaor anywhere in the United States
.
I mean, didn't know their ageor anything.
That's the way it should be.
It's very, very confidential.
I didn't hear anythingconfidential.
(20:55):
I didn't hear anything the dayof surgery, when I was in the
room, the coordinator came inand I said how's the donor?
The donor happened, or therecipient happened to be in the
same hospital.
Matter of fact, they happenedto be in the next OR, next OR,
(21:17):
and they said he.
So.
The first time I found out thejanitor, he's doing great.
He passed urine, which is thetest, while he was on the table.
That's the first test that thetransplant's working.
I start crying.
I just start crying because youknow it's all worthwhile.
That was the whole deal, and sothat was it.
(21:41):
That was it.
So it was about two months afterI'm sitting in the kitchen and
the phone rang.
Like most people, if I don'trecognize the number, I let it
go to voicemail.
But I picked it up and thisvoice came up and said said you
(22:01):
don't know me?
Oh, and I knew exactly who itwas.
Oh, I did.
He went on and said name'sDavid, 70 years old.
Totally given up hope.
There was no hope.
Nobody's going to get a kidwho's 70, you know, from a
non-directed donor.
And said he's doing great, andso we arranged to meet.
(22:28):
He's a Hispanic guy, so it kindof is a cultural thing.
He brought the whole familyRight and so it was.
That was good.
But there was nothing like thatphone call.
How do you tell someone aboutthat?
There was no doubt in my mindwas it all worthwhile?
(22:49):
Would I do it again?
Absolutely.
But that was like the crowningmoment, that yeah you know, what
Thumbs up.
There's one thing I want to add,laurie, about this process that
you'd ask about.
I like to say that I wentskipping and singing through
this process.
(23:09):
From now on, it became anon-directed donation to a
stranger, and so, you know, Istarted praying for a sign.
You know what I really like is,like a cheap hotel, a neon sign
that flashed yeah, this is whatyou want to do.
Okay, so this fellow that Ireally didn't know that well,
(23:30):
kind of called me out of theblue and said, hey, he said I
heard something really goodtoday.
I said oh, okay, what is it?
He said let me see if I gotthis right.
He said we all can't do greatthings, but we all can do small
things with great love.
Boom, there's the answer.
As it turns out, I looked it upas Mother Teresa said that, I
(23:54):
said well, that's why I'm here,that's what this thing is all
about.
So that was just kind of mylittle moment of clarity, or
said, yeah, you're on the righttrack.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
That was your flashing neon sign.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to interject that.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
No, I think it's beautiful.
We so often hear donors talkabout signs or how one thing
aligned after the next to makeit possible to donate, and I
think that's one of thebeautiful parts about donation.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Oh, I need to go back to David real quick.
This is what I forgot.
As we got to talk, I said well,when did you get the call that
they had a kidney for you?
Remember I said that at 70,there was no hope.
And he said he got the call.
And he said I'm sorry you hadthe wrong number.
And they said no, no, no, thisis David so-and-so.
(24:50):
And he said he couldn't believeit.
He said he was looking at thephone like there's really a
kidney Really.
So, anyhow it was maybe I thinksomething's lost in the trans
translation because, uh, hewon't he argued with him that
they had they had the wrongperson.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So, as it turned out, it was the right person wow,
had he been pursuing livingdonation or had he just kind of
decided to stay on dialysis?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
no, he had.
He had not pursued.
He needed a guide for thesystem that's my impression and
there wasn't one.
And so, as far as trying toactively do the things to
improve his chances of finding adonor, I think that was pretty
(25:38):
elementary, if much at all.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
So if Ernie had never been on dialysis, david
probably wouldn't have a newkidney right now.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
No, no, absolutely not.
Low chance, no chance, yeah,and this is what I keep going
back to.
This is my biggest job today asa donor, the way I feel it is
Anything that I can do to nothype donation no, that's the
worst thing I could do.
But just to help clear up thesemany misconceptions, like am I
(26:08):
walking with a cane now becauseI donated a kidney?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
So someone said that to you, Tom.
They wanted to know if you'rethe cane after this.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
That's not the best one.
The best one is someone said,well, does that affect your, you
know?
I said no, I don't know.
They said, well, you know, doesthat affect your?
And I said, oh no no, no, ithas no effect on other things.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Matter of fact, this is sex.
Sorry, I just wanted you toclarify that for the audience
you asked.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
But so this is what I tell everyone.
I say I cannot tell thedifference between one kidney
and two.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Well, congratulations to you being the oldest
non-directed donor.
I did look it up to see howmany people in your age range
donate each year.
Do you have any idea how manynon-directed donors there are in
your age range?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I think the latest statistic I heard was between
300 and 350 total non-directeddonors.
Is that pretty close?
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So of all ages in 2023, there were 406
non-directed donors and only 29were age 65 or above, so you're
part of a very small minority.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Let's make it bigger.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Let's make it bigger.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I have a feeling you're just the guy to do that.
Well, you can go to the.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
AARP meetings and preach about kidney donation.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I think that's my mission in life really.
It's just to say hey.
First of all, relax, take iteasy, let's see if you qualify,
and there will be tremendouspeople to walk with you step by
step, and you're one of them.
The high point of my day ismeeting other donors.
(28:01):
The second high point of my dayis meeting other donors.
The second high point of my dayis meeting other recipients.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So that's where I'm coming from.
Well, thank you for sharingyour story with us today and
congratulations to you on asuccessful donation and a really
beautiful and inspiring story.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Well, Lori, it's been so nice talking with you and
look forward to visiting withyou in the future.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
What I love about Tom's story is that it showcases
something we occasionally seewith donors that is truly
inspiring.
Despite his loved one receivinga kidney from another source
during his own evaluationprocess, tom stayed committed
and chose to help someone elsein need, just because In some
(28:46):
instances, these donors becomevoucher donors, ensuring their
loved one has access to a kidneyin the future if another
transplant is ever needed.
Just consider the impact ofthis for a second.
Not only does a patient receivea life-saving kidney from a
living donor today, but theyalso gain the reassurance that a
future transplant is guaranteedif necessary.
(29:06):
This is especially crucial foryounger recipients, who may
require multiple transplantsover the course of their
lifetime.
If your loved one receives akidney before you have a chance
to finish your evaluation anddonate yours, you can still make
a profound difference forsomeone else in need if you want
to do that.
It's okay and perfectly normalto fall in love with the idea of
(29:36):
giving along the way.
This season of Donor Diaries isproudly sponsored by GiftWorks,
an organization dedicated toempowering organ recipients and
living donors through education,advocacy and support.
By helping patients share theirjourneys and connect with
donors, giftworks ensureseveryone feels supported
throughout the transplantprocess.
We're honored to partner with ateam that's transforming lives,
one transplant at a time.
(29:57):
To learn more, visityourgiftworkscom.
Join us next month as DonorDiaries goes international for
the first time, with aninspiring interview from Munich,
germany.
We'll be talking tonon-directed donor Will Johnson
to get a glimpse into how livingdonation and paired exchange
works in Germany.
Can't wait to share ourafternoon in Munich with you.
(30:19):
Remember, every act of kindnesscreates ripples.
Thanks for listening and keepspreading those positive vibes.
This is Lori Lee signing off.
(30:42):
I just want to feel thesunshine.
I just want to feel thesunshine.
I share this life with you.
I share this life with you.
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