August 19, 2025 • 55 mins
Actress/writer/activist Amy Benneman talks about creating a TV show, writing plays, the pleasure of performing in front of people. Her kick-ass judge-pioneer mother, lawyer activist dad and how they started her on a journey of trying to fix the world, expectations of what the world thinks is normal and how it messes up the rest of us, parenthood and raising a neurodivergent child and how she taught Amy to accept and embrace who she is and she talks, about how Jeff Bridges can seduce you without ever laying a hand on you.
Bio: Amy Brenneman earned a degree from Harvard College in Comparative Religion and studied sacred dance and indigenous ritual in Kathmandu, Nepal. She is a founding member of Cornerstone Theater Company which produces site-specific, community-based theater on themes of social justice. Favorite Cornerstone roles included Juliet in Romeo and Juliet, Natasha in Three Sisters and Clytemnestra in The Oresteia.
Other theater: CSC Rep, Lincoln Center Theater, Williamstown Theater Festival, Yale Rep and The American Repertory Theater. She starred in the world premiere of the Pulitzer Prize-nominated Rapture Blister Burn (Playwrights Horizons, Geffen Theater) and Power of Sail opposite Bryan Cranston (Geffen Theater.) She played Miriam of Nazareth in the world premiere of Galilee 34 (South Coast Rep) and starred in The Sound Inside (Pasadena Playhouse), which was named one of the years’ best performances by the Los Angeles Times. She recently finished the world premiere of Larissa Fasthorse’ Fake It Until You Make It at Arena Stage in Washington DC.
Amy co-created, wrote, and starred in MOUTH WIDE OPEN (The Yard, American Repertory Theater) and OVERCOME (The Yard, Cotuit Center for The Arts). She has performed her original spoken word pieces at venues such as Spark, Tasty Words and the Martha’s Vineyard Playhouse.
Amy created, executive produced, and starred in “Judging Amy” (multiple Golden Globe Emmy and SAG nominations) based on the work of her mother, the Honorable Judge Frederica Brenneman. Other television: “NYPD Blue” (multiple Emmy nominations, SAG award) “Frasier,” “Goliath,” “Jane the Virgin,” “VEEP,” “Private Practice,” “The Leftovers,” “Tell Me Your Secrets,” “Shining Girls” and “The Old Man.” Film credits include CASPER, FEAR, DAYLIGHT, HEAT, FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS, THE JANE AUSTEN BOOK CLUB, NINE LIVES, THINGS YOU CAN TELL JUST BY LOOKING AT HER and MOTHER AND CHILD.
For her activist work, Amy has been honored by Women in Film, The Brady Center, the League of Women Voters, the National Children’s Alliance, Children’s Hospital Los Angeles, the Producer’s Guild of America, among others. She currently serves on the Creative Council for the Center for Reproductive Rights and on the board of Crimson Goes Blue, an organization dedicated to preserving and strengthening democracy in America. In 2016, she was part of the amicus brief for the Supreme Court case Whole Women’s v. Hellerstedt and received the Eleanor Roosevelt Award from The Feminist Majority for her ongoing commitment to reproductive rights. She is married to writer/director Brad Silberling and has two children, Charlotte and Bodhi.
Bio: Amy Brenneman earned a degree from Harvard College in Comparative Religion and studied sacred dance and indigenous ritual in Kathmandu, Nepal. She is a founding member of Cornerstone Theater Company which produces site-specific, community-based theater on themes of social justice. Favorite Cornerstone roles included Juliet in Romeo and Juliet, Natasha in Three Sisters and Clytemnestra in The Oresteia.
Other theater: CSC Rep, Lincoln Center Theater, Williamstown Theater Festival, Yale Rep and The American Repertory Theater. She starred in the world premiere of the Pulitzer Prize-nominated Rapture Blister Burn (Playwrights Horizons, Geffen Theater) and Power of Sail opposite Bryan Cranston (Geffen Theater.) She played Miriam of Nazareth in the world premiere of Galilee 34 (South Coast Rep) and starred in The Sound Inside (Pasadena Playhouse), which was named one of the years’ best performances by the Los Angeles Times. She recently finished the world premiere of Larissa Fasthorse’ Fake It Until You Make It at Arena Stage in Washington DC.
Amy co-created, wrote, and starred in MOUTH WIDE OPEN (The Yard, American Repertory Theater) and OVERCOME (The Yard, Cotuit Center for The Arts). She has performed her original spoken word pieces at venues such as Spark, Tasty Words and the Martha’s Vineyard Playhouse.
Amy created, executive produced, and starred in “Judging Amy” (multiple Golden Globe Emmy and SAG nominations) based on the work of her mother, the Honorable Judge Frederica Brenneman. Other television: “NYPD Blue” (multiple Emmy nominations, SAG award) “Frasier,” “Goliath,” “Jane the Virgin,” “VEEP,” “Private Practice,” “The Leftovers,” “Tell Me Your Secrets,” “Shining Girls” and “The Old Man.” Film credits include CASPER, FEAR, DAYLIGHT, HEAT, FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS, THE JANE AUSTEN BOOK CLUB, NINE LIVES, THINGS YOU CAN TELL JUST BY LOOKING AT HER and MOTHER AND CHILD.
For her activist work, Amy has been honored by Women in Film, The Brady Center, the League of Women Voters, the National Children’s Alliance, Children’s Hospital Los Angeles, the Producer’s Guild of America, among others. She currently serves on the Creative Council for the Center for Reproductive Rights and on the board of Crimson Goes Blue, an organization dedicated to preserving and strengthening democracy in America. In 2016, she was part of the amicus brief for the Supreme Court case Whole Women’s v. Hellerstedt and received the Eleanor Roosevelt Award from The Feminist Majority for her ongoing commitment to reproductive rights. She is married to writer/director Brad Silberling and has two children, Charlotte and Bodhi.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawhut Media. I am Amy Brenneman, and I am not
afraid to be alone with Jake Cogan.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Don't be Alone with jj Cogan.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hi there, welcome to Don't be Alone with Jake Cogan,
the greatest podcast in all of podcasting, and I am
your humble host, Jake Cogan. Thank you for being here,
and I really like your feedback. So if you want
to write to me at dbawjk at gmail dot com,
I would love to hear your comments, your compliments, your criticisms,
and your viewer questions. For our guests today, we have
(00:37):
a marvelous show, a great guest. Amy Brenneman is an actress,
but she's also an activist. She's also a writer. She's
done movies, she's done plays, she's done TV shows. She's
a creative spirit, but she's also somebody with a real
social conscious. She's also a mom of a special needs kid,
and she's been through so much and had so many
(01:01):
life lessons that I can't wait to say with her
and hear about what I'm doing wrong. She's going to
tell me all the things she's doing right, and I
know I'm doing everything wrong. Many years ago, I wrote
a very special episode of Fraser called Merry Christmas, Missus Moscows,
where Fraser, very not Jewish character with it from a
(01:21):
very non Jewish family, had to pretend to be Jewish
because he met this hot girl and the hot girl
was played by Amy Brenneman and who was Jewish, and
so it was really funny farcet where the whole family
Christmas time pretending to be Jewish and it was a
big success. I won an Emmy for it, and it
was written by me and twenty other amazing writers. What
(01:43):
I got also is to see how wonderful Amy was
to work with and how she embodied this character fully,
and how she loved performing in front of audiences and
how audiences loved her. It's given me a lot of
joy over the years to take credit for her work
and everybody else's. And I'm thrilled she's here so I
can thank her for that. One of the questions I
would have for her is, you know, are you taking
(02:07):
care of yourself and are you how are you surviving
through all the trials and tribulations, because not everything's success
and she seems pretty success driven, and we're going to
find out what makes her ticked and what relieves all
that worry, and where that desire to come and fix
everything comes from, and whether she'll be able to keep
(02:28):
it up for the next several decades because we need
her more than ever. So coming up right after this,
the great Amy Brennman.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Don't be alone with j J.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, let me officially welcome you. Okay, this is Amy Brenneman,
And I guess I don't know. I don't have a
label for you because there are many things. You're an actress,
you're famously an actress, but you're also an activist. You're
also a writer, You're also on the board of many things.
You like, you're you? How do you find yourself? What
do you say?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I'm Amy, I'm an actor, producer, activist.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean it's shocking and not shocking,
but just impressive the list of causes and things that
you're involved in, And like, who has time you have?
You don't have that kind of time? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, I'm really honest with people. I've I've been asked
to be on many more boards than I am. I'm
sure we all at the stage, and uh, I don't
like to be on boards. I'm usually not, but I'll say,
would you like my name on something? Is there a
creative council?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Because if it's important to have a name, I'm happy
to offer that. Sure, But I'm pretty specific at this
stage in the game with how much time I can
or want to give anything. In particular. That's part of
getting older.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Boards that I've been on. Uh. Can be for great,
great causes, but can be incredibly frustrated. Yeah, because people
are you know, have an agenda, and sometimes you see, well,
how does that agenda fit in with what we're trying
to do here?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I had that with the several boards I was on,
and it's like, you know, you could either choose to
help out and see if that helps, or just step away. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, it's funny too. I did a couple of things
fairly early on, Like I chaired a board of my
theater company that I moved into the board, and then
I chaired it when I was like in my mid thirties,
which is kind of young to chare a board. And
so now it's like when people ask me, I know
what it is, It's not like it's like, okay, I
(04:38):
and I'm on a board now and it's great, But
I also really like being adjacent because honestly, a board
of directors, you have fiduciary responsibilities, you have Roberts rules,
you have all sorts of things. It's like, I just
want to flit in and out support a lot of what.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
People the boards do is help figure out how to
raise money for whatever it is that they're doing. That's
the thing that brings you to the board is the
active part, the thing that you didn't realize when you
were joining it is like, oh, we have to ask everybody.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
For money exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Again, Well, Amy, you and I have a bit of
a history because I wrote a Fraser episode that I
got I believe I got an Emmy Award for I'd
say I wrote my name was on it, but it
was written by an entire staff of people. But you
were the star of that episode, which is Mary Christmas
Missus Moskowitz, and you were great in it and amazing,
(05:30):
and I just want to thank you for doing it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Oh my god, thank you for having me. I get
I get recognized from Fraser as if I was a
series regular. Yeah, it was so memorable. And then I
came back as Fay a couple times. Although that was
definitely a high water act, which was you know. The
funny thing about the timing of that was I was
developing judging Amy. It was the fall of whatever year
that was, and I came in and I I had
(05:56):
such an extraordinary time. I came home to my husband,
I said, I've made a terrible mistake. I'm developing an
hour and this is like the funnest, especially for a
theater artist, Like this is so fun And I remember
Brad saying totally, it's like you have to recognize you
are with people at the top of their game, at
the top of you know what I mean. It's sort
of like it's like sitting in with the Beatles, like
I could be a rock star what you could be?
(06:18):
But I could, Oh, yes, absolutely, But but we've all
been on not great as funny, you protect like, it
just was extraordinarily funny episode.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, Brad Silverling, your delightful husband, directed me in a
few things, and I was always always a big fan.
There was a show called.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Was It Great Scott?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
That's it? Yeah, great Scott that he that he directed
and then uh yes and and uh I played future
Man and he had me. I was in a skin
tight silver suit. H and I had a show up
looking ridiculous and at a certain point right right a
souper for futuristic vehicle and hit a mark like down
(07:03):
on the ground that was impossible for me to hit.
And so I was very excited that he was very
patient with me. We did like forty takes of me
trying to pull into this thing and say a line.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I don't think I ever knew that.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I couldn't hit my mark. No, he was very Oh, okay,
he's a director, great director, yes, and a nice guy.
So let's since you mentioned judging Amy great show that
How long did it take you to develop that show?
And like, I know, it's kind of based on a
little bit of your mom and your life.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I'm jealous of my own younger self. It did not
take long to develop it. I had. My mother's a judge,
my father's a lawyer. They passed away.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
They met at Harvard Law School. My mother's in the
first class of women at Harvard Law School. But even
more delightful, they were the first married couple at Harvard
Law School because they got married after their first year.
She became a judge without ever practicing law because in
nineteen sixty seven, there was a Supreme Court case called
in Regault, which afforded miners full constitutional rights. So before that,
(08:07):
miners were a little bit like women used to be, like,
not full citizens. So basically, in nineteen sixty seven they
had to build out this huge branch of the law
that didn't exist before. So my mom was the second
female judge in the state of Connecticut. And I was
three at the time, and so this was her life
and her specialty really was delinquency and neglect. So anyway,
(08:30):
I was a theater baby, and then I started to
do NYPD Blue, started to do television and features, and
she always said, why isn't there a show about juvenile justice?
And I said, Mom, you're stupid, like, don't enter my
life anything, right, And then she had a birthday. She
had like a miles I think it was her seventieth birthday,
(08:50):
and Brad and I were doing a happy Birthday video
for her, and we drove around the state of Connecticut
because we didn't have children, we had time to do that,
and we went to the Harvard or the Heart for Court,
and you know, for two days people said happy birthday,
Judge Breneman, and it was you know, probation officers and
social workers and public defenders and all sorts of people
(09:12):
and I and I turned to Brad and I said,
this is actually a great setting. And so so that
was the setting. And then but then what I really
wanted to do, which I was able to do with
time daily playing my mom and Barbara Hall writing the script.
More importantly, I wanted to do a show about the
daughter of a drail blazer, because there's lots of stuff
about the first woman who dad a da It's like,
(09:34):
but and then those first people have children, right, So
that was the personal dynamic. So basically I had this idea.
I just sold it to Nina Tassler. I mean it
was I mean, what was what did take a hot
minute was I chose two writers who happened to be male.
(09:56):
They weren't the right fit. And I but I say
that because I was still had my own internal sort
of chauvinism, and I was like, well they were experienced
and and they just didn't crack it. There was just
no other way to put it. And so I thought, well,
you know, I had an idea, we didn't find the writers.
And then with you know, I think I there was
February fifteenth. I was going to be released to do
a pilot in case my thing didn't come together. And
(10:18):
then Barbara Hall in like three days wrote this thing
and I was like, she it's undeniable. Oh well, she
kind of.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Gets it right, so that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And then Brad directed the pilot.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, all right, that's good. And he was he was
there watching the car. He knew what he was supposed
to do.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
He was creating his mother in law basically exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
That's fantastic. What was it about being the daughter of
this pioneer that drove you to make that show? Like?
What was what? What are the struggles? What are the worries? What? What?
Because you now seem like you have the pioneering spirit,
like there's no question that you also are like doing
a million things with whatever is put in front of you.
(10:57):
So like, what's what's the problem. It's like you were
just giving this great gift.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, the problem is individuating from your parents, right, It's
just this small right. But it's funny. I was just
talking to someone about Carl Jung has this great quote
that there's nothing, there's no greater burden for a child
than the unlived lives of the parents. Right, So it's like,
you know, do this because I didn't get to do it,
you know, go to college because I didn'tet to do it.
Da da da. My mother is incredibly self actualized, and
(11:24):
so am I. Actually she's a toughie. I mean, she's
just a real tough and I do think you know,
she was, you know, one click away from autistic. And
I say that as the mother of a nerd of
hers daughter, meaning she had so little emotional intelligence. I
mean she did, she did, but she also was like
you know, she so and I'm this kind of feeling
(11:46):
gelatinous person. So I'm like, okay, if I take this,
And but I could recognize at that point as I'm
sure you have this as well, Like what makes a
good TV show. A good TV show is an ongoing
situation where characters can bump into each other and you're
never going to solve the problem. So I'm like, my
relationship with Tyne Daily played my mom, that's the love
(12:07):
story that will never be solved, and so we can
that's the well that we go back to. And that
so there was and then and then the really interesting
process was working with her. I mean, she was my, well,
here's the really awesome story that you will love. So
we're putting together the pilot. The pilot was not one
(12:28):
of the ones to watch. We were very under the radar.
I actually was like, you know what if I get
this far, I've already learned stuff. But you know, putting
together pilot if it goes you know, you know. So
there was this position of a of a technical consultant
and I said, do you want to be our technical
consult consultant? And she said what is that? And I said, well,
I think you At that time, it was like two
grand an episode, you work with the writers, you blah
(12:50):
blah blah. My mother is exceedingly ethical, like think the
opposite of something. And she said, I don't want any
any whiff of a propriety. I don't feel comfortable doing that.
Of course I will look at your scripts. But you know,
I was like, okay, great. So we got this guy
Jay something or other. He was a judge in Massachusetts
(13:10):
and he's like, I'll do that. The Massachusetts system in
the Connecticut system are a little different. I kind of
kept wanting my mother, maybe I'm a massacres to look
at the scripts to just vet them technically anyway, the
show is a success, like who would have thought it did.
And so we were in Connecticut at the holidays and
I see hear my mother sort of holding forth with
(13:33):
her friends and saying, you know, wow, and they were like,
so great, Amy has this new show. And she said, well,
you know, I worked really hard on me. I don't
get a dime for it. And I turned her, I
was like, hold up, you were offered that job. And
then she looked right at me. She's like, I just
didn't think it was success.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I would be.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I was like, that's so funny.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So she what she did and very much articulated this
because we started to get honored by, you know, the
Social Worker Association and the Children's Law centers, and so
she always said, you know, judging Amy got the stories
out that she could write in the Law Review all
day long, you know. But suddenly people, I mean, I
(14:14):
get it's I mean. And this is where it's such
a truly an honor, and it's always a surprise for people,
kind of on a weekly basis. Now sometimes these social
media will say I became a social worker because that show.
I went to law school because that show. I didn't
know that field existed, right, you know, and then you're like,
oh wow, like we're just in a dark and soundstage,
(14:36):
you know, trying to stay awake at three in the morning,
you know.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
But I mean that's the power of storytelling. Like you
if you say there's such a job as a social worker,
that's not the same thing as people being able to
see a story where somebody actually fights and suffers but
then succeeds. Like that moves your heart in a way that.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I have a story for you.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Please, Do you know who Isabelle Wilkerson is? She wrote, asked,
and the warmth of other sons, Okay, incredible, incredible person.
I was at a gathering last summer, relatively small gathering,
and Isabelle Wilkerson was there, and she to me, I
mean cast and the warmth of other I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I read cast. Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I come in this room. First of all, I expect
her to be sort of doubt. She's just this beautiful,
younger than me, amazing scholar. She sees me and she
lights up. She'd I came in a little bit late.
There's a theme, and but she saw me and she
lit up, and I smiled back, and then she was
(15:37):
talking about incredible work that she does. She kept you know,
when somebody's giving a lecture and they keep coming to
you as a kind of a safe person to look at,
and I keep responding and being Then she finishes and
she says, you're Faye from Fraser, and I said, yes.
(15:57):
Fraser her beloved husband and died of cancer and through
the last year of this tortures treatment their happy place.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Oh that's nice, And it's.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Sort of because again you think you're doing work up
there and we do comedy, and it's like the way
we were of service to her. It just was one
of those moments.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, but I mean that makes sense to me, Like,
I don't think I'm going to inspire people to change
their lives and grow and certain and and devote themselves
to society. But I do think that the shows I
write will make people giggle and sat allviate, alleviate suffering
no small thing, and then get right back to the
suffering pretty quickly. But that's great. Yeah, she wrote Cast
(16:43):
was an amazing book. I mean, her look at society
and the class system of our class system versus the
other cast systems around the world was really in line
might Yeah, don't be.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Alone with.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
The exchange of the audience to the artist is kind
of what I'm interesting because you brought it up. This
is what you would because you're very good at what
you do. You would do it just on a reading
with no audience, just to act, right. I'm sure you
love the process of acting.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I do. I do love. I do love the communion
with the audience.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
But the hard part about like movies is without an
audience or even TV shows is do less is doing less?
Like how much less? How much less should I do?
It's like more or less? Like that's so weird that
doing less is more, And somehow they're still getting the message. Yeah,
(17:55):
I don't get that at all. I'm such a shitty
actor though I'm a terrible actor.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I saw you in the Disneyland thing.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Amated. I'm pretty big. I don't do less. I don't
do less and that. But it's like, you know, that's
the thing is like if I was a better actor,
I would have done less. Yeah, done even less? Yeah yeah, yeah,
got the same message.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well you you It's funny this one. A couple of
years ago, I was finishing up a season of the
Old Man and doing a show at night with Brian
Kranton at the GEFF. And it wasn't supposed to be
an overlap and it was overlapped by a couple of weeks.
It was I don't recommend it, but it was really
and and the play wasn't particularly broad, but it was
a play, so it was bigger just because it was play.
(18:35):
And then the material that we were doing an old man,
particularly that the overlap time was what I call movie
star acting. It's just me and Jeff are just like
looking smokily at each other, and so it was really cool, like, oh,
these are just different art forms, you know what I mean.
And there's it's just like you wouldn't if you were
a visual artists, you wouldn't compare which is better oils
or sculpture. It's like, what's the story? What are we doing?
(18:56):
And let me get the medium that's going to communicate it.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Let me let me ask you this. You wrote a
couple plays, but one of them was called Overcome, and
that was about your experience as a mother of a
neurodivergent person. So tell me about that. I didn't get
to see it, So tell me about that experience.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Overcome is yes about me becoming a better ally support
to my daughter, Charlotte, who's now twenty four. Charlotte has
a very very rare chromosomeal abnormality that we didn't get
diagnosed until she was fifteen because it's so rare. So
(19:33):
you know, many things we did, right, I mean, we
got her supports and speech and this and that, but
there was always this mystery. And so really it's about
sort of navigating these IEPs and these assessments and me.
It started out actually called a piece called threshold, which
was coming back to my mom. I used to joke that,
(19:54):
you know, I felt like an un translator in between
my brainy hat Carvard Law school mother and my intellectual
disabled daughter, right, And I somehow like I have other
special needs moms who is like, I'm always on the
side of my kid. And I was like, I hate
myself because sometimes I'm on our side and sometimes I'm
like getter shipped together. And partly it's because in our case,
(20:16):
we didn't have any clear guidelines once we got this
diagnosis and she is so well functioning. Considering what did what.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Did having a specific diagnosis do to make to write
the ship? How did that make it better.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
In our case, it did a lot, because you know,
I remember being into Panga Canyon and Bratt and we
were Brad as we were. She was on location somewhere
and we had gone we'd done so, which is really
what the play is about. We'd done I mean, every
six months from when she was three to fifteen, there
was some devastating assessment. It was either through the school
(20:55):
system or outside devastating. She'll never really learn to read,
she'll never live independently, all these things. As a parent,
you're like, Okay, well, I'm raising you to survive after
I'm gone, and you are to And she and she
had an invisible she has an invisible disability, right, So
I have very very good special needs moms whose kids
(21:15):
have cerebral palsy or Down syndrome. Each journey is different.
Our journey was that invisible thing, which is like, what
the fuck is going on? So when we got the
diagnosis and I went on this little website's pretty rare,
but it does have, you know, information. For instance, here's
a very small example. Charlotte wears sort of like adult
(21:39):
diapers at night because she just couldn't wake up to
use the restaurant, and we're like, what the hell up, hell,
what the hell? Well, in this syndrome, most people with
this syndrome never learn to toilet. And I'm like, oh,
she's yeah. So it just kind of I had this
line in the play where the glass spins from half
(21:59):
empty to how full with dizzying speed. It's like, like
your whole and then any kind of shame or I
remember for years like what is she didn't have an
umbrella diagnosis, so it's like, well, a little bit of this,
a little speech, so this isn't it. And now it's
like I give the name of syndrome. It gets her
social security, it gets her this, it gets her that,
(22:20):
and it just sort of you know, my dad was
sober an AA for thirty seven years, and it's like
you just sort of accept it right then, and you
stop trying to fix it, right Like all this effort
to fix it, which is basically saying to the kid,
I got to fix you right away, went away. And
then it was like, oh, let's just support this amazing person.
(22:41):
And our relationship got better and I started employing the
and then now she lives. Not only did I write
this play, but she I bought a small apartment building
with two other partners in Hyannas, Massachusetts. We created a
supported independent living situation, didn't. I mean, we made it up,
but we also took best practices. My artistic imagination got employed.
(23:03):
I literally went from going like where can she fit
in in the world as it is? To like, oh,
the world doesn't exist yet?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I love creating new worlds. That's my jam, right, So
I just everybody got happier.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Right, That is not my jam. I do not create
new worlds. Oh yeah, imagine, I guess I do on paper,
But in real life, I'm just very happy living in
the world that my wife demands. That's that's the world
I live in. So how did you put that into
the play? And and and how did you Were you
concerned about just telling your truth or were you concerned
like me, like what's the audience's experience of a beginning, middle,
(23:35):
and end?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
And yeah, yeah, yeah, it's such a good question. Well,
my collaborator, who I've known since I was eighteen years old,
the first college chums, the first she's a choreographer too,
So I will say we like stuff that is really
entertaining people like which makes this show really hard to mount.
People like is it a one woman shows? Like and right,
there's me, there's two dancers, there's three musicians, there's a screen,
(23:59):
there's lots of things. I'm the one talking to the audience.
But it becomes surreal when it needs to, and it's
really physical. So basically what she and another piece that
I wrote about an illness that I went through. She yeah,
because I'm like beginning Madelen end and also the tyranny
of story structure, and she she's like, think like a poet,
like if it strikes you as interesting, just write it down.
(24:21):
So I I think the first the first experience I
had in real time that ended up being kind of
exactly on the stage is and this was like what
led me. It was the bottom of something, but it
(24:42):
led me to this neurologist where we got like right
around the corner things started to shift, but we got
this neuropsych right, this neuropsychological evaluation. And char was in
like seventh grade or eighth grade. In the big there
was so much fucking anxiety about like high school, high
school to Obama. I'm like, oh my god, So we
get this neuropsych and it's devastating it's like it was
(25:07):
like she'd be in the one percent, like if she
was on the pro. I was like, yay, you know,
but it did not do anything. And I remember sitting
on the swing in my front yard and just weeping.
And then the theater artist in me got activated, I guess,
and I thought, you know, one day I'm going to
(25:29):
put together everything that this report says is wrong with her.
I'm going to put it on a Star Wars scrawl
and I'm going to dance in front of it in
front of people. And that happens. So that's one piece.
I started just writing down verbatim these IEPs have you
do your kids have? Specially do you know an ip is?
(25:50):
You know? Oh my god, they're hilarious. So I just
started writing the ship down and then and then there's this,
and then the kind of weirdly the theme don't tell
Taylor Swift if she listens to this, because I use
are we out of the woods yet? And that was again.
I that song was playing a lot during that moment
(26:11):
in time, and it would I just would get really emotional.
And I remember my son saying, like, why does this
song make you so emocial? And I said, because when
you're going through a challenge, there's this sense of like
are we done yet? Are we going to this whole
idea of like are we going to go back to
what I thought normal was? Right? And then Charlotte's diagnosis
(26:35):
didn't She'll have it forever, right, It's like, what do
I think I'm getting back to? Like this is my
life and this is my daughter. And so one of
the last lines of the play, and Charlotte's with me
on stage at that point, as I said, I guess
I stopped asking are we out of the woods yet?
And started looking at the trees. Aren't the trees beautiful?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Right?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And so it's it's so I just started collaging it
out and then and then we literally just like a screenplay,
we have it on cards and how do things work?
And you know, but it.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Seems to me knowing you just a little bit, that
you are very much sort of like a doer. So
that kind of type a personality is looking for a
culminating act that finishes the thing, that gets the prize
and the gold star and the thing. And if you
(27:28):
you're in a situation where there is no end, there
is no gold star, there is just we continue how
do you deal how do you do you have First
of all, do you look inward on that part of
you and go like, okay, it's been very good aid
to me, but I have to put that aside right now,
So like, how do you do that? How do you
put that aside? And then what do you how do
you learn to just be okay with what is it?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Well? I mean I look back at that now as
internalized ableism. I mean I look back at that time
now saying like, Wow, I had a gay kid and
I was trying to make her straight. I mean it's
so you know, so I think any parent goes through that,
and I'm going to put aside my best ideas and
love this person you know that that I'm in relationship with.
So I think some of it is quite universal. But
(28:11):
I think that in specifically in our case. And we
had some very good experiences where I met Eileen, Like
was this charter school that we had a great experience.
So it's not like, I mean, there's been great people
along the way. But but and I dialogue very actively
with a character that's a voice in my head that
(28:34):
I call dominant culture. I just talked to him, and
I mean sometimes it's a female you know, but the
idea and you know, we're really I mean our FK
Junior just said some stuff about like, wow, what is
our definition of a life that's valuable? Is it paying taxes?
I don't know, maybe it is, you know, but it's like,
my kid's not going to pay taxes. She's not going
to make a living wage. She gets social Security. Like,
(28:56):
let's have that conversation. But that is ableism, right, that's
my other you know, who is such a do or
such a fixer, such a world changer. The end of
her life, you know, declining with Parkinson's, She's like, why
am I still here? I'm not And I said, Mom,
it's just wonderful to have you seated there. And what
do you have to be doing and accomplishing all the time? Right,
But that's pretty it's pretty fucked up.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Right. Were you able to, for lack of a better word,
say this job is done or good? Not fair? You're
never done being a parent. But like the work of
like the mill of I kind of watch and protect
and do and change and lesson and all the you know,
go through the maze and the paperwork, and they were
(29:39):
you able to say I can take a breath. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Well, and also that happens in actuality. Like I was
doing a podcast with another special needs mom whose kid
is I think Diego is like thirty five or something,
and and the moderator is talking about, you know, a
lot of special needs parents like go no adult because
you you age out of services and you do that,
and there is this transition, right, but it also gets better.
(30:05):
And so my and my friend who's moderating said to us, like,
what's what's good about the you know? And this woman
who I didn't know that well, She's like, oh, there's
so much less assessments. And I was like, fucking right now,
It's like, how were we gonna support It's we're not fixing.
It's like do you know? It's you know? And and
also what I knew, I mean, there are terrible statistics
(30:25):
about young adults with disabilities living at home, and I
knew the woman that I am the mom, I am
the artist, I am if at all possible, and it's
safe and it's something Charlotte wants. And I knew that
from the minute she had like six weeks at a camp.
She came back just like I did, like more mature,
we detest. It's like, okay, so this it might look
(30:46):
a little bit different, but actually not that different. In
her case, she went to Riverview for age eighteen to
twenty two. It's like college. She said early days after Riverview,
I'd like to stay and live with river View friends.
I was a great So now they have supports, they
have stuff that you know, a neurotypical people person might
(31:07):
not need, although honestly everybody's needs the all support as
they're launching. But she lives a separate life and she
refers to home as her apartment in Master Setts.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Which leads me to my question, don't be alone with
Jake Coogan is always about you helping me fix my problem.
So you've just defined the issue, which is and quote
that you said is a lot of what you wind
up talking about. Very specifically, is the tyranny of the
idea of normal. Okay, what is normal? The tyranny of normal?
(31:37):
And it sounds like you made Charlotte's world who she
is and what she does normal. She put her in
a world where she could be normal. Okay. I don't
feel like I've ever been in the world where I'm normal,
Like I'm not normal. I'm insecure, like all the things.
I don't know, I ever feel normal. I feel like
(31:57):
I've been in groups of people other insecure writers or whatever.
But normal. It makes sense that we're all we're all
struggling under an idea of what normal might be. Yeah,
but then I think, what's the solution, Like this is a
solution to just surround yourself with community that just recognizes
the differences.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Well, and I think some of us. So there's a
great book called Normal Sucks by this disability activist Jonathan
Mooney and Jonathan so in the educational system, Jonathan looks
at the history of normal and anybody that's had their
kid go school, it's like, there's a bell curve, and
where did the bell curve come from? And it hasn't
(32:39):
been around that long actually, and it basically when math
mathematicians and statisticians got in. You know, again, not a
bad impulse, but okay, we're going to educate all American kids.
And then suddenly we need a bell curve. And suddenly
there's people outside of the Bell curve, and now now
what we know all kinds of minds. It's like, okay,
just because you can't sit at a seat when you're
seven eight years old does mean a goddamn thing about
(33:01):
your capacity for intelligence. Right, So we're learning all the time.
I mean in answer to your question, yeah, I think
you do find your safe people. And again, like I'll
talk about my beloved dad, you know. So that's what
the reason I talk about AA a lot, and I'm
a twelve step in another program. But is because until
doctor Bob and Bill w the whole idea was like,
(33:24):
this is an affliction that we're going to fix. It's
either a moral failing, it's a this They those guys
were like, we're not going to try to fix it anymore.
We're not going to drink, We're gonna give each other support,
but we're actually not going to fix this problem. So
now you have your safe landing pad, just like shar
with her with her other nerdi verse young adult friends.
But then she goes out there she has a job, right,
(33:46):
So you have your little friends and then you go
out there and you're like god that, but you know
what you know because having a safe space means you
can tell your truth, you're not bullshitting yourself, right, And
then slowly I think what happens is as individuals get
more comfortable. It's like, how are you so comfortable in
the world. It's like, oh, I have this group of
friends you want to join. I mean it's a very
we change the world and make it more comfortable by
(34:10):
by starting with ourselves. Well, and I think what I
love about what you just said is when you coming
back to that question of like ass Charles's gotten old
or do I say, like the job is done?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
But the.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
The hyper focus when you have a kid with a disability,
and again like thank god for special ed and like
Department of Education, thank god. But one thing you're constantly
looking at the deficits right, and literally there's a numerical thing.
It's like, oh my god, like most kids can do this,
and she's down here and da moving into young adulthood.
(34:47):
It just became like, oh, everybody needs supports in some areas.
Guess what she does like she's she can walk, like
she does. I have friends in wheelchairs. They have a
different We're all a mixture of strengths and places where
we need And it literally, like you just said, so
it becomes less about like just a bit like my folk,
my disability activist friends said, you know, all of us
(35:08):
are temporarily abled, like if we're on the planet long enough,
we won't he as well, can't walk whatever. So especially
in disability, it's a very porous or I can be
temporarily disabled. I'm thinking about getting knee done. It's like, well,
we'll be disabled for I will do that eighty a
thing for about six months. Maybe go back, maybe you know. So.
I think what's really moving about Charlotte's community and the
(35:32):
parents there and is it's a deeper level of community.
I think it's so funny, right because you think, like, Okay,
if you're capable, then you can do things on your own,
and then before you know it, you can get kind
of isolated when you have a disability or love somebody
that does. You're in community all the fucking time. And
(35:53):
I and it's funny. As my mom declined, my dad
declined too, although he passed away younger. With my mom,
I took care of my mom last four years of
her life.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
That's hard. Yeah, just jumped over that. But that's hard. Yeah,
taking care of your mom and while she's struggling in
disability and that role reversal and that that's really hard. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, but she because she wasn't blessed. And I do
say that not in a in a cloying way, because
she was not part of the disability community. It was
mortifying her to use a walker and do this. And
and she's also, you know, a narcissist. So she we
were having a Thanksgiving dinner and my mom said, I'm
(36:38):
so self conscious about my walking because she had Parkinson's
at the end. And I said, well that you, this
is your lucky day because there's literally two wheelchair users
that are going to be around the things given table.
That's just the nature of this family. But she's like, yeah,
but everybody's gonna be looking at me. There's literally somebody
using a gtube. But okay, everybody.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
People will look at you. But you have to adapt
to who you are and where you are in that
in the stage. And uh yeah, I guess narcissists normally
like that attention, but all right, I guess.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I don't like it. Always don't be alone with.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
It's interesting when you're talking about community. I see Brad
online every few weeks with his community of guys who
goes to dinner with his dinner or yes, his diners club.
He's got this great community of like, it seems like
fifteen people that that that that go to different places
in l A. And I'm always a little jealous. Yeah,
(37:49):
how did they get to Oh that seems like it
would have been great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't get
an invitation.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah right, he's he's very I went years ago, we
were newly married or pretty early on a friend of
mine who knew me pretty well. He said, he said,
he said, you know what you about me? He said,
you have your male female energy really in balance. And
(38:15):
I was like, I love, That's like the best compliment.
I was like, great, because I feel very female, but
I'm I'm sort of a tomboy and I and I said,
oh my gosh, I would say that about Brad. And
that's why, you know, we do have our conflicts, but
they're not gendered. So he I say this because he
is very good at friendships and relationships. He values them
(38:35):
and puts time into them and all that stuff. Do
you think you could be a part of it?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
I do, by Trey.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
It's all tree.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah, But do you think that if if he's very
good about being social and that's his thing, then if
one of your children is less social, does he see
that as a huge deficit, just because that's where he
comes from.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Well, he's he's funny, like I'm I'm social and an
exhibitionist and sort of more of a like we very
early on in our marriage we would have a little
not big spots, but small spots because I always want
to stay at a party longer. And we're like, this
is a big problem, and we're like, how about we
both take two cars? Right, It's just like not actually
not a problem. So he would say he's shy, right
(39:22):
like and and but Body's that way too. I mean
they have sort of and that's because ultimately I'm I'm
shy in some ways but not really and so they've
taught me like it's a real thing, like don't just
say you know so. So I think he and Body
have a good understanding of that.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Yeah, I guess why, because I was. I would say
that when I have an agility to do something that
my son doesn't have an agility, who's great at so
many other things. I always think, oh, I always see that
as a problem, Yeah, fix this, yes, when in fact
maybe it's not a problem. Maybe it's just they don't
need that part, I know, And they're good at other things. Yes,
(40:03):
I don't speak Russian. He speaks Russian. Yeah, yeah, like okay,
he doesn't do this other thing.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Read the Andrew Holomon book. It's just this very basic
idea of parents and children and difference. Yeah, but again
that the humanity of it is. Like my mom when
I got to college and I was meeting because of
theater and because of who I am, like lots and
lots and lots of gay mostly guys, but like it
was really I still have lots of queer people around me,
(40:30):
and I remember my mom and she really liked some
of these, a lot of these friends that I was meeting,
And she said very sweetly once, She's like, I'm kind
of glad you and your brothers aren't gay, and my
hackles went up. I was like, okay, well, and she said,
I just I don't know that world, right, you know.
And I was like, okay, I get that, but that's
what our children do. They lead us into new worlds,
and it's okay to acknowledge.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
That, like I don't know, Okay, So now, old man,
let's talk about the old man. Great show, amazing show.
What's he like? What bridges like?
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Heaven?
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean you just think he's going to
be fantastic, yeah, and then he turns out to be
exactly fantastic.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Okay, Yeah, I mean he's did you.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Know him before the show?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
No? No, we just fell in love. I mean we
just loved each other dearly. And yeah, I mean there's
a million things to say. I mean he's so present
as a human and as an actor, also knows this
art form right really well, and like Liftgow, who is
(41:36):
also heavenly in another way but kind of similar way,
actually very nurturing men, like talk about healthy masculine. I mean, like,
oh my god, Like these guys are just what you
want to be, you know. And for me, like fifteen
eighteen years out, was like that looks good, right, that
looks like a great light.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
But Liftgow does a lot of theater, yeah, I And
I was doing because I started like slipping plays and
during Old Man, partly because there was just so much
delay with COVID and Jeff's illness and the strike and
it just you know, so I would do places. And
I remember asking Jeff. I was like, do you ever
want to do theater? He's like, Nope, not really. I
was like, why he's like, I don't know. He's like,
I think I get bored doing it over and over
(42:15):
like he get and I just I mean, there's so
many great stories, but I remember this one. You know.
It was like two in the morning and we're both sleepy,
and it was a scene where I come out and
an outfit and he's just you know, it's like a
smoldery movie star. And like one minute he's just sitting
there like fat, like Lebowski, you know, and then the
(42:38):
cameras roll and it's like he fucked me with his eyes.
I was like, holy motherfucker, Like you know this talk
about you know how big, how small, how and just
just a wonderful human just just also, you know, I
was doing like an ePK and I and I said,
(42:59):
I just I just feel loved. I feel seen and
loved and cherished. And then I pause and I was like,
you know what, And I think everybody on this set
would say that because that is his intention, right, Like
I get a little special yummy because I'm his love interest.
But I think for him and Lithgoo and people that
(43:19):
have stayed in the game in such a beautiful, generative way,
part of the joy of being on a set is
encouraging right, people too, you know, it's the opposite of
self is crazy, right.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Getting back to this sort of the artist honesty thing.
As an artist, I also want to be honest. And
I think I can be honest in my writing because
it's not me, yeah, because I'm hiding in a character
and other things. But if it was me, if it's
truly me, if it's about me, I think I would
have a heart love.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
And it's and it's funny, I mean, I I you know,
we actors are kind of sneaky because I when I do,
when I do overcome, it is me, right, But I'm
also have a persona that I'm doing, you know what
I mean. It's not it's very different from me, you know,
sobbing with my therapist, you know. But I think that
that it is a way, you know, my soul, my
(44:16):
psyche recognizes, like we need to process this thing, whatever
it is, if it's personal, if it's and and this
is how we do it, and then you can see it,
then it's up and out right. I think that I
think that's the gift of a that you have that
it's like I need to see it and then and
(44:39):
then I can start working with it, right. I mean
that's the thing. I've worked a lot with dreams. It's like,
oh that a dream is the psyche just going like, hey,
you take a look at this thing. It's like little
like breadcrumbs on the way. So I feel like I
kind of get it more and more. I mean, honestly,
I'm more and more interested in live performance, which would
(44:59):
include actually like what we on Frasier. I'm very interested
in that. I think that with AI, with COVID, with
it's like we need I need, and I think others
need enjoy being in rooms with other people.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yeah, I mean it's a lonely world. I think this
really is a lonely world for everybody, especially younger people.
Generations below me and us are are kind of lonely.
Even though they're communicating through phones, they're not face to
face in a room. That's kind of what the reason
I do this only face to face. I don't do
this on a zoom or anything like that. I want
(45:34):
to communicate with somebody in the room because I feel
like there's too little of that in our lives. So
I agree that there's something there's a value to being
in person live not a machine. Not an AI all
that stuff. But I don't know. I mean, that stuff
is coming. Whether we like it or not. I wouldn't
fit it.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
It is.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
I mean, it's also a tool, you know. It's like
I think it's I mean, yeah, I mean I had
this moment and by son where he was showing me
the with the Google thing with this crazy AAI that
gets by prompt and it's like I was like, wow, like,
what's the there's gonna be ha to be sort of
a watermark if like otherwise are you going to use
these clips and you know, courtrooms or you know, there's
(46:14):
got it and and but he's like, you know, I
don't know. I don't know if there will be And
I've never said this before and it actually felt really
true and right, and I suddenly was like, well, buddy,
I'll be long gone. Yeah, you guys are gonna have
to figure that out, right, because that's called liable, it's
called slander like. But it was a pivot for me
rather than oh that's another thing I have to worry
(46:35):
about it and fix, you know. I was like, I
don't do that tech thing. I mean, I'm not a coder.
He is, you know. I was like I might want
to get on that.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Uh, well, I have so much more to talk to
you about, but we're running out of time and I
just want to get to some of the other things
because we have a viewer question that we have to
answer some other things. So let's let's get to the
viewer question. Now. It's time for listener man. Somebody wrote
in a question. It's not specifically for you. It's they
(47:06):
write in viewers write in your general questions, and somebody
brilliant like her is going to answer them. This is
from main Math. It's not a math question, and it's
actually quite fitting for you. It says, what is the
greatest gift you can give your kids? That's what Maynard
wants to know.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
I think having a happy life of my own, not
needing them to to be anything that I have a
to see their mom and their dad to model a
happy life.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
How do you balance that with twenty plus years of
spending so much energy and time and focus on them? Like,
how do you like that? That's definitely a vocation and
a job that you've taken on and and very well with,
But like, how do you then say, Okay, by the way,
(48:04):
I'm going to give that job up and do this
new job.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Well, I think I'm a working mom, so that's sort
of been built in. And like with judging Amy, I
had Charlotte during that time, it was excreme. I mean,
who wants I had to go back to work when
she was four months old. Like, I don't recommend that
it was terrible, but I think that what that communicated,
like when I had it was so terrible. At first,
I was just exhausted and she I mean, I needless,
(48:27):
you know, I don't need to go into that because we've.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
All through it.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
But I and I would come home in tears every
day from shooting and I would say to Brad what
would happen if I quit? And he was, you know,
your mental health is most important, but probably you wouldn't
be able to do for a while if you broke
a contract. Right. But even at that time, what I
did realize was my the little imp that likes acting
(48:58):
is my inner child and arguably Charlotte. I had my
second child, my first one being myself. And if I
ditched my own self, right because I want to be
a better mother, therein lies disaster. I mean then for me,
oh yeah, then it's like that's how people are terrible
mother for me. So I think always I had an
(49:18):
awareness of like we're doing a balancing act here, but
I never didn't work or pursue my own stuff.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
So that means so is that taking what you consider
sort of having your life and taking care of yourself
is being active artistically.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
And that well, it's just literally saying, especially as a
mom to the extent that moms have more hands on
in most families, not every family at the beginning, just
like you're gonna be okay with the babysitter, Like I'm
gonna go right.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
See now, when I tell my wife, I said, like,
let it go, just let him deal with it on
his own. That is tantamount to me saying die. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
She hears like you don't love me, you don't yeah,
your son? Yeah, and you're telling me to go fuck
off and die?
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah. Now what you're thinking, Yeah, I mean, listen, everybody's different.
I think it's at a certain point everybody has to individuate, right,
And I think I think keeping in back coming back
to this question, and this is again my personal opinion,
having an identity outside of being a mother, or in
(50:24):
addition to being a mother is a gift to my
children that they don't need to fulfill me.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yeah. For me, the greatest gift I can give my
son is a saving response. Yeah, honestly, that's it. Just
keep accruing. That's the greatest gift. But we have different.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
Parents, and I'm sure your son is thriving.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
He's doing fine, doing fine. And now is the section
of the show we'd like to call the moment of joy.
A moment of joy? What is something that brings you joy?
It can't be work, so it can't be acting, can't
be family, Okay, it has to be something other.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Can it be porn?
Speaker 3 (51:05):
Sure? Yeah, mostly it's beyond that. Yeah, but anything that
sort of you can turn to that says Okay, if
I do this on a regular basis, it really fulfills me.
So that's why it is mostly porn.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Okay, Well, I I'll do two. One is not original
at all. But the natural world will always bring me joy,
bring me perspective and just fascinate me. I'll just sort
of get interested in and it just feels good in
(51:41):
my body, Like getting my body into three office screen
three D nature brings me joy.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Like are you desert? Are you mountain? Or you beach
like you.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I like it all. I mean, I'm not sort of
a hardcore desert like I don't ever crave going to
like Palm Springs. We we have this home in Martha's Vineyard,
which is very rural on the water, and for me,
it's this religion scholar named Mersey Eliota calls about access
(52:15):
Mundy like everybody has their center of the world, and
I do feel what I'm on that property and on
that island. I'm like the other thing, which is not
an everyday thing. But in this conversation about activism and
art making stuff, I've thought, like, what is something I
can contribute that interests me and is sort of not
(52:36):
is joyful honestly. So a lot of us are talking
about circus and clowns and satire and things that are
tools in dealing with autocracy. So I was on a
call with a webinar, not a call with five thousand
people learning about clowns and circus. And the guy, I
(53:00):
think it's called up Tier he was part of this
group in Serbia that brought down Molisevit or helped it through.
They were student theater people, Like I'm like, oh, oh
my god, like this is so interesting.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
So the clowns brought down Lussovich. They would do with
water from the daisies.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
They would do public you know, think think, think Charlie
Chaplin and the gra So they would do they would
do public art installations that would bring because you know,
there's all sorts of coming back to comedy. It's like
if you can tyrann ston't like we make fun of
you know, there's like I'm interested in, like this is
why this moment in time as terrible and fraught as
(53:43):
it is. There's what I was talking to Jamie Raskin
a couple of weeks ago and I was like, you
know what, I just I want to I want to
like go to these marches and like offer something and
I don't know. I'm a theater maker, so what would
it be. And he's like, well, there's a non violent
protester puppeteer in my district. Here's her number. I was like,
I'm so excited about, like when would that exchange?
Speaker 3 (54:03):
Often?
Speaker 1 (54:04):
So there's people and maybe they are a little bit
individual right now, but that are cooking about like what
can I offer?
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Right? Well?
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Great, well, thank you for being here. This is so
delightful and I wish you well on your journey, and
it's nice that you're taking time for yourself and taking
time for theater, yeah, and taking time for all that stuff,
and that you're going to save the country at the
same time. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
It should take like another year, but then it's all good.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
A year and a half, right, year and a half
till the next elections. But it was great seeing you again.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
And thank you for Fay too.
Speaker 3 (54:39):
Oh yeah, my pleasure and Chris Lloyd's pleasure and all
the actual people who wrote that show. Like again, I
took credit for a first draft that was written and
made fabulous by twenty really great writers. So but you
were fantastic in the show and made it really special. Thanks.
Thanks for being here, and thank you for being here.
Thanks for tuning into Don't Be Along with Jake Cogan.
(55:00):
Write me at dbawjk at gmail dot com with your
comments and suggestions and compliments and good reviews or bad
reviews if that's the case I can handle it, and
questions for my guests. I really appreciate it, and remember
to subscribe and take the time to not be alone,
do something fun with somebody, or cover a conversation with somebody.
(55:21):
Connect with somebody. You will be happier and you make
the world better. I'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Don't be alone with jj cog
Strawhut Media. I am Amy Brenneman, and I am not
afraid to be alone with Jake Cogan.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Don't be Alone with jj Cogan.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hi there, welcome to Don't be Alone with Jake Cogan,
the greatest podcast in all of podcasting, and I am
your humble host, Jake Cogan. Thank you for being here,
and I really like your feedback. So if you want
to write to me at dbawjk at gmail dot com,
I would love to hear your comments, your compliments, your criticisms,
and your viewer questions. For our guests today, we have
(00:37):
a marvelous show, a great guest. Amy Brenneman is an actress,
but she's also an activist. She's also a writer. She's
done movies, she's done plays, she's done TV shows. She's
a creative spirit, but she's also somebody with a real
social conscious. She's also a mom of a special needs kid,
and she's been through so much and had so many
(01:01):
life lessons that I can't wait to say with her
and hear about what I'm doing wrong. She's going to
tell me all the things she's doing right, and I
know I'm doing everything wrong. Many years ago, I wrote
a very special episode of Fraser called Merry Christmas, Missus Moscows,
where Fraser, very not Jewish character with it from a
(01:21):
very non Jewish family, had to pretend to be Jewish
because he met this hot girl and the hot girl
was played by Amy Brenneman and who was Jewish, and
so it was really funny farcet where the whole family
Christmas time pretending to be Jewish and it was a
big success. I won an Emmy for it, and it
was written by me and twenty other amazing writers. What
(01:43):
I got also is to see how wonderful Amy was
to work with and how she embodied this character fully,
and how she loved performing in front of audiences and
how audiences loved her. It's given me a lot of
joy over the years to take credit for her work
and everybody else's. And I'm thrilled she's here so I
can thank her for that. One of the questions I
would have for her is, you know, are you taking
(02:07):
care of yourself and are you how are you surviving
through all the trials and tribulations, because not everything's success
and she seems pretty success driven, and we're going to
find out what makes her ticked and what relieves all
that worry, and where that desire to come and fix
everything comes from, and whether she'll be able to keep
(02:28):
it up for the next several decades because we need
her more than ever. So coming up right after this,
the great Amy Brennman.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Don't be alone with j J.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, let me officially welcome you. Okay, this is Amy Brenneman,
And I guess I don't know. I don't have a
label for you because there are many things. You're an actress,
you're famously an actress, but you're also an activist. You're
also a writer, You're also on the board of many things.
You like, you're you? How do you find yourself? What
do you say?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I'm Amy, I'm an actor, producer, activist.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean it's shocking and not shocking,
but just impressive the list of causes and things that
you're involved in, And like, who has time you have?
You don't have that kind of time? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, I'm really honest with people. I've I've been asked
to be on many more boards than I am. I'm
sure we all at the stage, and uh, I don't
like to be on boards. I'm usually not, but I'll say,
would you like my name on something? Is there a
creative council?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Because if it's important to have a name, I'm happy
to offer that. Sure, But I'm pretty specific at this
stage in the game with how much time I can
or want to give anything. In particular. That's part of
getting older.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Boards that I've been on. Uh. Can be for great,
great causes, but can be incredibly frustrated. Yeah, because people
are you know, have an agenda, and sometimes you see, well,
how does that agenda fit in with what we're trying
to do here?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I had that with the several boards I was on,
and it's like, you know, you could either choose to
help out and see if that helps, or just step away. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, it's funny too. I did a couple of things
fairly early on, Like I chaired a board of my
theater company that I moved into the board, and then
I chaired it when I was like in my mid thirties,
which is kind of young to chare a board. And
so now it's like when people ask me, I know
what it is, It's not like it's like, okay, I
(04:38):
and I'm on a board now and it's great, But
I also really like being adjacent because honestly, a board
of directors, you have fiduciary responsibilities, you have Roberts rules,
you have all sorts of things. It's like, I just
want to flit in and out support a lot of what.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
People the boards do is help figure out how to
raise money for whatever it is that they're doing. That's
the thing that brings you to the board is the
active part, the thing that you didn't realize when you
were joining it is like, oh, we have to ask everybody.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
For money exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Again, Well, Amy, you and I have a bit of
a history because I wrote a Fraser episode that I
got I believe I got an Emmy Award for I'd
say I wrote my name was on it, but it
was written by an entire staff of people. But you
were the star of that episode, which is Mary Christmas
Missus Moskowitz, and you were great in it and amazing,
(05:30):
and I just want to thank you for doing it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Oh my god, thank you for having me. I get
I get recognized from Fraser as if I was a
series regular. Yeah, it was so memorable. And then I
came back as Fay a couple times. Although that was
definitely a high water act, which was you know. The
funny thing about the timing of that was I was
developing judging Amy. It was the fall of whatever year
that was, and I came in and I I had
(05:56):
such an extraordinary time. I came home to my husband,
I said, I've made a terrible mistake. I'm developing an
hour and this is like the funnest, especially for a
theater artist, Like this is so fun And I remember
Brad saying totally, it's like you have to recognize you
are with people at the top of their game, at
the top of you know what I mean. It's sort
of like it's like sitting in with the Beatles, like
I could be a rock star what you could be?
(06:18):
But I could, Oh, yes, absolutely, But but we've all
been on not great as funny, you protect like, it
just was extraordinarily funny episode.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, Brad Silverling, your delightful husband, directed me in a
few things, and I was always always a big fan.
There was a show called.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Was It Great Scott?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
That's it? Yeah, great Scott that he that he directed
and then uh yes and and uh I played future
Man and he had me. I was in a skin
tight silver suit. H and I had a show up
looking ridiculous and at a certain point right right a
souper for futuristic vehicle and hit a mark like down
(07:03):
on the ground that was impossible for me to hit.
And so I was very excited that he was very
patient with me. We did like forty takes of me
trying to pull into this thing and say a line.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I don't think I ever knew that.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I couldn't hit my mark. No, he was very Oh, okay,
he's a director, great director, yes, and a nice guy.
So let's since you mentioned judging Amy great show that
How long did it take you to develop that show?
And like, I know, it's kind of based on a
little bit of your mom and your life.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I'm jealous of my own younger self. It did not
take long to develop it. I had. My mother's a judge,
my father's a lawyer. They passed away.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
They met at Harvard Law School. My mother's in the
first class of women at Harvard Law School. But even
more delightful, they were the first married couple at Harvard
Law School because they got married after their first year.
She became a judge without ever practicing law because in
nineteen sixty seven, there was a Supreme Court case called
in Regault, which afforded miners full constitutional rights. So before that,
(08:07):
miners were a little bit like women used to be, like,
not full citizens. So basically, in nineteen sixty seven they
had to build out this huge branch of the law
that didn't exist before. So my mom was the second
female judge in the state of Connecticut. And I was
three at the time, and so this was her life
and her specialty really was delinquency and neglect. So anyway,
(08:30):
I was a theater baby, and then I started to
do NYPD Blue, started to do television and features, and
she always said, why isn't there a show about juvenile justice?
And I said, Mom, you're stupid, like, don't enter my
life anything, right, And then she had a birthday. She
had like a miles I think it was her seventieth birthday,
(08:50):
and Brad and I were doing a happy Birthday video
for her, and we drove around the state of Connecticut
because we didn't have children, we had time to do that,
and we went to the Harvard or the Heart for Court,
and you know, for two days people said happy birthday,
Judge Breneman, and it was you know, probation officers and
social workers and public defenders and all sorts of people
(09:12):
and I and I turned to Brad and I said,
this is actually a great setting. And so so that
was the setting. And then but then what I really
wanted to do, which I was able to do with
time daily playing my mom and Barbara Hall writing the script.
More importantly, I wanted to do a show about the
daughter of a drail blazer, because there's lots of stuff
about the first woman who dad a da It's like,
(09:34):
but and then those first people have children, right, So
that was the personal dynamic. So basically I had this idea.
I just sold it to Nina Tassler. I mean it
was I mean, what was what did take a hot
minute was I chose two writers who happened to be male.
(09:56):
They weren't the right fit. And I but I say
that because I was still had my own internal sort
of chauvinism, and I was like, well they were experienced
and and they just didn't crack it. There was just
no other way to put it. And so I thought, well,
you know, I had an idea, we didn't find the writers.
And then with you know, I think I there was
February fifteenth. I was going to be released to do
a pilot in case my thing didn't come together. And
(10:18):
then Barbara Hall in like three days wrote this thing
and I was like, she it's undeniable. Oh well, she
kind of.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Gets it right, so that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And then Brad directed the pilot.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, all right, that's good. And he was he was
there watching the car. He knew what he was supposed
to do.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
He was creating his mother in law basically exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
That's fantastic. What was it about being the daughter of
this pioneer that drove you to make that show? Like?
What was what? What are the struggles? What are the worries? What? What?
Because you now seem like you have the pioneering spirit,
like there's no question that you also are like doing
a million things with whatever is put in front of you.
(10:57):
So like, what's what's the problem. It's like you were
just giving this great gift.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, the problem is individuating from your parents, right, It's
just this small right. But it's funny. I was just
talking to someone about Carl Jung has this great quote
that there's nothing, there's no greater burden for a child
than the unlived lives of the parents. Right, So it's like,
you know, do this because I didn't get to do it,
you know, go to college because I didn'tet to do it.
Da da da. My mother is incredibly self actualized, and
(11:24):
so am I. Actually she's a toughie. I mean, she's
just a real tough and I do think you know,
she was, you know, one click away from autistic. And
I say that as the mother of a nerd of
hers daughter, meaning she had so little emotional intelligence. I
mean she did, she did, but she also was like
you know, she so and I'm this kind of feeling
(11:46):
gelatinous person. So I'm like, okay, if I take this,
And but I could recognize at that point as I'm
sure you have this as well, Like what makes a
good TV show. A good TV show is an ongoing
situation where characters can bump into each other and you're
never going to solve the problem. So I'm like, my
relationship with Tyne Daily played my mom, that's the love
(12:07):
story that will never be solved, and so we can
that's the well that we go back to. And that
so there was and then and then the really interesting
process was working with her. I mean, she was my, well,
here's the really awesome story that you will love. So
we're putting together the pilot. The pilot was not one
(12:28):
of the ones to watch. We were very under the radar.
I actually was like, you know what if I get
this far, I've already learned stuff. But you know, putting
together pilot if it goes you know, you know. So
there was this position of a of a technical consultant
and I said, do you want to be our technical
consult consultant? And she said what is that? And I said, well,
I think you At that time, it was like two
grand an episode, you work with the writers, you blah
(12:50):
blah blah. My mother is exceedingly ethical, like think the
opposite of something. And she said, I don't want any
any whiff of a propriety. I don't feel comfortable doing that.
Of course I will look at your scripts. But you know,
I was like, okay, great. So we got this guy
Jay something or other. He was a judge in Massachusetts
(13:10):
and he's like, I'll do that. The Massachusetts system in
the Connecticut system are a little different. I kind of
kept wanting my mother, maybe I'm a massacres to look
at the scripts to just vet them technically anyway, the
show is a success, like who would have thought it did.
And so we were in Connecticut at the holidays and
I see hear my mother sort of holding forth with
(13:33):
her friends and saying, you know, wow, and they were like,
so great, Amy has this new show. And she said, well,
you know, I worked really hard on me. I don't
get a dime for it. And I turned her, I
was like, hold up, you were offered that job. And
then she looked right at me. She's like, I just
didn't think it was success.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I would be.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I was like, that's so funny.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So she what she did and very much articulated this
because we started to get honored by, you know, the
Social Worker Association and the Children's Law centers, and so
she always said, you know, judging Amy got the stories
out that she could write in the Law Review all
day long, you know. But suddenly people, I mean, I
(14:14):
get it's I mean. And this is where it's such
a truly an honor, and it's always a surprise for people,
kind of on a weekly basis. Now sometimes these social
media will say I became a social worker because that show.
I went to law school because that show. I didn't
know that field existed, right, you know, and then you're like,
oh wow, like we're just in a dark and soundstage,
(14:36):
you know, trying to stay awake at three in the morning,
you know.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
But I mean that's the power of storytelling. Like you
if you say there's such a job as a social worker,
that's not the same thing as people being able to
see a story where somebody actually fights and suffers but
then succeeds. Like that moves your heart in a way that.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I have a story for you.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Please, Do you know who Isabelle Wilkerson is? She wrote, asked,
and the warmth of other sons, Okay, incredible, incredible person.
I was at a gathering last summer, relatively small gathering,
and Isabelle Wilkerson was there, and she to me, I
mean cast and the warmth of other I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I read cast. Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I come in this room. First of all, I expect
her to be sort of doubt. She's just this beautiful,
younger than me, amazing scholar. She sees me and she
lights up. She'd I came in a little bit late.
There's a theme, and but she saw me and she
lit up, and I smiled back, and then she was
(15:37):
talking about incredible work that she does. She kept you know,
when somebody's giving a lecture and they keep coming to
you as a kind of a safe person to look at,
and I keep responding and being Then she finishes and
she says, you're Faye from Fraser, and I said, yes.
(15:57):
Fraser her beloved husband and died of cancer and through
the last year of this tortures treatment their happy place.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Oh that's nice, And it's.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Sort of because again you think you're doing work up
there and we do comedy, and it's like the way
we were of service to her. It just was one
of those moments.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, but I mean that makes sense to me, Like,
I don't think I'm going to inspire people to change
their lives and grow and certain and and devote themselves
to society. But I do think that the shows I
write will make people giggle and sat allviate, alleviate suffering
no small thing, and then get right back to the
suffering pretty quickly. But that's great. Yeah, she wrote Cast
(16:43):
was an amazing book. I mean, her look at society
and the class system of our class system versus the
other cast systems around the world was really in line
might Yeah, don't be.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Alone with.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
The exchange of the audience to the artist is kind
of what I'm interesting because you brought it up. This
is what you would because you're very good at what
you do. You would do it just on a reading
with no audience, just to act, right. I'm sure you
love the process of acting.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I do. I do love. I do love the communion
with the audience.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
But the hard part about like movies is without an
audience or even TV shows is do less is doing less?
Like how much less? How much less should I do?
It's like more or less? Like that's so weird that
doing less is more, And somehow they're still getting the message. Yeah,
(17:55):
I don't get that at all. I'm such a shitty
actor though I'm a terrible actor.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I saw you in the Disneyland thing.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Amated. I'm pretty big. I don't do less. I don't
do less and that. But it's like, you know, that's
the thing is like if I was a better actor,
I would have done less. Yeah, done even less? Yeah yeah, yeah,
got the same message.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well you you It's funny this one. A couple of
years ago, I was finishing up a season of the
Old Man and doing a show at night with Brian
Kranton at the GEFF. And it wasn't supposed to be
an overlap and it was overlapped by a couple of weeks.
It was I don't recommend it, but it was really
and and the play wasn't particularly broad, but it was
a play, so it was bigger just because it was play.
(18:35):
And then the material that we were doing an old man,
particularly that the overlap time was what I call movie
star acting. It's just me and Jeff are just like
looking smokily at each other, and so it was really cool, like, oh,
these are just different art forms, you know what I mean.
And there's it's just like you wouldn't if you were
a visual artists, you wouldn't compare which is better oils
or sculpture. It's like, what's the story? What are we doing?
(18:56):
And let me get the medium that's going to communicate it.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Let me let me ask you this. You wrote a
couple plays, but one of them was called Overcome, and
that was about your experience as a mother of a
neurodivergent person. So tell me about that. I didn't get
to see it, So tell me about that experience.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Overcome is yes about me becoming a better ally support
to my daughter, Charlotte, who's now twenty four. Charlotte has
a very very rare chromosomeal abnormality that we didn't get
diagnosed until she was fifteen because it's so rare. So
(19:33):
you know, many things we did, right, I mean, we
got her supports and speech and this and that, but
there was always this mystery. And so really it's about
sort of navigating these IEPs and these assessments and me.
It started out actually called a piece called threshold, which
was coming back to my mom. I used to joke that,
(19:54):
you know, I felt like an un translator in between
my brainy hat Carvard Law school mother and my intellectual
disabled daughter, right, And I somehow like I have other
special needs moms who is like, I'm always on the
side of my kid. And I was like, I hate
myself because sometimes I'm on our side and sometimes I'm
like getter shipped together. And partly it's because in our case,
(20:16):
we didn't have any clear guidelines once we got this
diagnosis and she is so well functioning. Considering what did what.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Did having a specific diagnosis do to make to write
the ship? How did that make it better.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
In our case, it did a lot, because you know,
I remember being into Panga Canyon and Bratt and we
were Brad as we were. She was on location somewhere
and we had gone we'd done so, which is really
what the play is about. We'd done I mean, every
six months from when she was three to fifteen, there
was some devastating assessment. It was either through the school
(20:55):
system or outside devastating. She'll never really learn to read,
she'll never live independently, all these things. As a parent,
you're like, Okay, well, I'm raising you to survive after
I'm gone, and you are to And she and she
had an invisible she has an invisible disability, right, So
I have very very good special needs moms whose kids
(21:15):
have cerebral palsy or Down syndrome. Each journey is different.
Our journey was that invisible thing, which is like, what
the fuck is going on? So when we got the
diagnosis and I went on this little website's pretty rare,
but it does have, you know, information. For instance, here's
a very small example. Charlotte wears sort of like adult
(21:39):
diapers at night because she just couldn't wake up to
use the restaurant, and we're like, what the hell up, hell,
what the hell? Well, in this syndrome, most people with
this syndrome never learn to toilet. And I'm like, oh,
she's yeah. So it just kind of I had this
line in the play where the glass spins from half
(21:59):
empty to how full with dizzying speed. It's like, like
your whole and then any kind of shame or I
remember for years like what is she didn't have an
umbrella diagnosis, so it's like, well, a little bit of this,
a little speech, so this isn't it. And now it's
like I give the name of syndrome. It gets her
social security, it gets her this, it gets her that,
(22:20):
and it just sort of you know, my dad was
sober an AA for thirty seven years, and it's like
you just sort of accept it right then, and you
stop trying to fix it, right Like all this effort
to fix it, which is basically saying to the kid,
I got to fix you right away, went away. And
then it was like, oh, let's just support this amazing person.
(22:41):
And our relationship got better and I started employing the
and then now she lives. Not only did I write
this play, but she I bought a small apartment building
with two other partners in Hyannas, Massachusetts. We created a
supported independent living situation, didn't. I mean, we made it up,
but we also took best practices. My artistic imagination got employed.
(23:03):
I literally went from going like where can she fit
in in the world as it is? To like, oh,
the world doesn't exist yet?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I love creating new worlds. That's my jam, right, So
I just everybody got happier.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Right, That is not my jam. I do not create
new worlds. Oh yeah, imagine, I guess I do on paper,
But in real life, I'm just very happy living in
the world that my wife demands. That's that's the world
I live in. So how did you put that into
the play? And and and how did you Were you
concerned about just telling your truth or were you concerned
like me, like what's the audience's experience of a beginning, middle,
(23:35):
and end?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
And yeah, yeah, yeah, it's such a good question. Well,
my collaborator, who I've known since I was eighteen years old,
the first college chums, the first she's a choreographer too,
So I will say we like stuff that is really
entertaining people like which makes this show really hard to mount.
People like is it a one woman shows? Like and right,
there's me, there's two dancers, there's three musicians, there's a screen,
(23:59):
there's lots of things. I'm the one talking to the audience.
But it becomes surreal when it needs to, and it's
really physical. So basically what she and another piece that
I wrote about an illness that I went through. She yeah,
because I'm like beginning Madelen end and also the tyranny
of story structure, and she she's like, think like a poet,
like if it strikes you as interesting, just write it down.
(24:21):
So I I think the first the first experience I
had in real time that ended up being kind of
exactly on the stage is and this was like what
led me. It was the bottom of something, but it
(24:42):
led me to this neurologist where we got like right
around the corner things started to shift, but we got
this neuropsych right, this neuropsychological evaluation. And char was in
like seventh grade or eighth grade. In the big there
was so much fucking anxiety about like high school, high
school to Obama. I'm like, oh my god, So we
get this neuropsych and it's devastating it's like it was
(25:07):
like she'd be in the one percent, like if she
was on the pro. I was like, yay, you know,
but it did not do anything. And I remember sitting
on the swing in my front yard and just weeping.
And then the theater artist in me got activated, I guess,
and I thought, you know, one day I'm going to
(25:29):
put together everything that this report says is wrong with her.
I'm going to put it on a Star Wars scrawl
and I'm going to dance in front of it in
front of people. And that happens. So that's one piece.
I started just writing down verbatim these IEPs have you
do your kids have? Specially do you know an ip is?
(25:50):
You know? Oh my god, they're hilarious. So I just
started writing the ship down and then and then there's this,
and then the kind of weirdly the theme don't tell
Taylor Swift if she listens to this, because I use
are we out of the woods yet? And that was again.
I that song was playing a lot during that moment
(26:11):
in time, and it would I just would get really emotional.
And I remember my son saying, like, why does this
song make you so emocial? And I said, because when
you're going through a challenge, there's this sense of like
are we done yet? Are we going to this whole
idea of like are we going to go back to
what I thought normal was? Right? And then Charlotte's diagnosis
(26:35):
didn't She'll have it forever, right, It's like, what do
I think I'm getting back to? Like this is my
life and this is my daughter. And so one of
the last lines of the play, and Charlotte's with me
on stage at that point, as I said, I guess
I stopped asking are we out of the woods yet?
And started looking at the trees. Aren't the trees beautiful?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Right?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And so it's it's so I just started collaging it
out and then and then we literally just like a screenplay,
we have it on cards and how do things work?
And you know, but it.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Seems to me knowing you just a little bit, that
you are very much sort of like a doer. So
that kind of type a personality is looking for a
culminating act that finishes the thing, that gets the prize
and the gold star and the thing. And if you
(27:28):
you're in a situation where there is no end, there
is no gold star, there is just we continue how
do you deal how do you do you have First
of all, do you look inward on that part of
you and go like, okay, it's been very good aid
to me, but I have to put that aside right now,
So like, how do you do that? How do you
put that aside? And then what do you how do
you learn to just be okay with what is it?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Well? I mean I look back at that now as
internalized ableism. I mean I look back at that time
now saying like, Wow, I had a gay kid and
I was trying to make her straight. I mean it's
so you know, so I think any parent goes through that,
and I'm going to put aside my best ideas and
love this person you know that that I'm in relationship with.
So I think some of it is quite universal. But
(28:11):
I think that in specifically in our case. And we
had some very good experiences where I met Eileen, Like
was this charter school that we had a great experience.
So it's not like, I mean, there's been great people
along the way. But but and I dialogue very actively
with a character that's a voice in my head that
(28:34):
I call dominant culture. I just talked to him, and
I mean sometimes it's a female you know, but the
idea and you know, we're really I mean our FK
Junior just said some stuff about like, wow, what is
our definition of a life that's valuable? Is it paying taxes?
I don't know, maybe it is, you know, but it's like,
my kid's not going to pay taxes. She's not going
to make a living wage. She gets social Security. Like,
(28:56):
let's have that conversation. But that is ableism, right, that's
my other you know, who is such a do or
such a fixer, such a world changer. The end of
her life, you know, declining with Parkinson's, She's like, why
am I still here? I'm not And I said, Mom,
it's just wonderful to have you seated there. And what
do you have to be doing and accomplishing all the time? Right,
But that's pretty it's pretty fucked up.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Right. Were you able to, for lack of a better word,
say this job is done or good? Not fair? You're
never done being a parent. But like the work of
like the mill of I kind of watch and protect
and do and change and lesson and all the you know,
go through the maze and the paperwork, and they were
(29:39):
you able to say I can take a breath. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Well, and also that happens in actuality. Like I was
doing a podcast with another special needs mom whose kid
is I think Diego is like thirty five or something,
and and the moderator is talking about, you know, a
lot of special needs parents like go no adult because
you you age out of services and you do that,
and there is this transition, right, but it also gets better.
(30:05):
And so my and my friend who's moderating said to us, like,
what's what's good about the you know? And this woman
who I didn't know that well, She's like, oh, there's
so much less assessments. And I was like, fucking right now,
It's like, how were we gonna support It's we're not fixing.
It's like do you know? It's you know? And and
also what I knew, I mean, there are terrible statistics
(30:25):
about young adults with disabilities living at home, and I
knew the woman that I am the mom, I am
the artist, I am if at all possible, and it's
safe and it's something Charlotte wants. And I knew that
from the minute she had like six weeks at a camp.
She came back just like I did, like more mature,
we detest. It's like, okay, so this it might look
(30:46):
a little bit different, but actually not that different. In
her case, she went to Riverview for age eighteen to
twenty two. It's like college. She said early days after Riverview,
I'd like to stay and live with river View friends.
I was a great So now they have supports, they
have stuff that you know, a neurotypical people person might
(31:07):
not need, although honestly everybody's needs the all support as
they're launching. But she lives a separate life and she
refers to home as her apartment in Master Setts.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Which leads me to my question, don't be alone with
Jake Coogan is always about you helping me fix my problem.
So you've just defined the issue, which is and quote
that you said is a lot of what you wind
up talking about. Very specifically, is the tyranny of the
idea of normal. Okay, what is normal? The tyranny of normal?
(31:37):
And it sounds like you made Charlotte's world who she
is and what she does normal. She put her in
a world where she could be normal. Okay. I don't
feel like I've ever been in the world where I'm normal,
Like I'm not normal. I'm insecure, like all the things.
I don't know, I ever feel normal. I feel like
(31:57):
I've been in groups of people other insecure writers or whatever.
But normal. It makes sense that we're all we're all
struggling under an idea of what normal might be. Yeah,
but then I think, what's the solution, Like this is a
solution to just surround yourself with community that just recognizes
the differences.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Well, and I think some of us. So there's a
great book called Normal Sucks by this disability activist Jonathan
Mooney and Jonathan so in the educational system, Jonathan looks
at the history of normal and anybody that's had their
kid go school, it's like, there's a bell curve, and
where did the bell curve come from? And it hasn't
(32:39):
been around that long actually, and it basically when math
mathematicians and statisticians got in. You know, again, not a
bad impulse, but okay, we're going to educate all American kids.
And then suddenly we need a bell curve. And suddenly
there's people outside of the Bell curve, and now now
what we know all kinds of minds. It's like, okay,
just because you can't sit at a seat when you're
seven eight years old does mean a goddamn thing about
(33:01):
your capacity for intelligence. Right, So we're learning all the time.
I mean in answer to your question, yeah, I think
you do find your safe people. And again, like I'll
talk about my beloved dad, you know. So that's what
the reason I talk about AA a lot, and I'm
a twelve step in another program. But is because until
doctor Bob and Bill w the whole idea was like,
(33:24):
this is an affliction that we're going to fix. It's
either a moral failing, it's a this They those guys
were like, we're not going to try to fix it anymore.
We're not going to drink, We're gonna give each other support,
but we're actually not going to fix this problem. So
now you have your safe landing pad, just like shar
with her with her other nerdi verse young adult friends.
But then she goes out there she has a job, right,
(33:46):
So you have your little friends and then you go
out there and you're like god that, but you know
what you know because having a safe space means you
can tell your truth, you're not bullshitting yourself, right, And
then slowly I think what happens is as individuals get
more comfortable. It's like, how are you so comfortable in
the world. It's like, oh, I have this group of
friends you want to join. I mean it's a very
we change the world and make it more comfortable by
(34:10):
by starting with ourselves. Well, and I think what I
love about what you just said is when you coming
back to that question of like ass Charles's gotten old
or do I say, like the job is done?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
But the.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
The hyper focus when you have a kid with a disability,
and again like thank god for special ed and like
Department of Education, thank god. But one thing you're constantly
looking at the deficits right, and literally there's a numerical thing.
It's like, oh my god, like most kids can do this,
and she's down here and da moving into young adulthood.
(34:47):
It just became like, oh, everybody needs supports in some areas.
Guess what she does like she's she can walk, like
she does. I have friends in wheelchairs. They have a
different We're all a mixture of strengths and places where
we need And it literally, like you just said, so
it becomes less about like just a bit like my folk,
my disability activist friends said, you know, all of us
(35:08):
are temporarily abled, like if we're on the planet long enough,
we won't he as well, can't walk whatever. So especially
in disability, it's a very porous or I can be
temporarily disabled. I'm thinking about getting knee done. It's like, well,
we'll be disabled for I will do that eighty a
thing for about six months. Maybe go back, maybe you know. So.
I think what's really moving about Charlotte's community and the
(35:32):
parents there and is it's a deeper level of community.
I think it's so funny, right because you think, like, Okay,
if you're capable, then you can do things on your own,
and then before you know it, you can get kind
of isolated when you have a disability or love somebody
that does. You're in community all the fucking time. And
(35:53):
I and it's funny. As my mom declined, my dad
declined too, although he passed away younger. With my mom,
I took care of my mom last four years of
her life.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
That's hard. Yeah, just jumped over that. But that's hard. Yeah,
taking care of your mom and while she's struggling in
disability and that role reversal and that that's really hard. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, but she because she wasn't blessed. And I do
say that not in a in a cloying way, because
she was not part of the disability community. It was
mortifying her to use a walker and do this. And
and she's also, you know, a narcissist. So she we
were having a Thanksgiving dinner and my mom said, I'm
(36:38):
so self conscious about my walking because she had Parkinson's
at the end. And I said, well that you, this
is your lucky day because there's literally two wheelchair users
that are going to be around the things given table.
That's just the nature of this family. But she's like, yeah,
but everybody's gonna be looking at me. There's literally somebody
using a gtube. But okay, everybody.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
People will look at you. But you have to adapt
to who you are and where you are in that
in the stage. And uh yeah, I guess narcissists normally
like that attention, but all right, I guess.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I don't like it. Always don't be alone with.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
It's interesting when you're talking about community. I see Brad
online every few weeks with his community of guys who
goes to dinner with his dinner or yes, his diners club.
He's got this great community of like, it seems like
fifteen people that that that that go to different places
in l A. And I'm always a little jealous. Yeah,
(37:49):
how did they get to Oh that seems like it
would have been great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't get
an invitation.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah right, he's he's very I went years ago, we
were newly married or pretty early on a friend of
mine who knew me pretty well. He said, he said,
he said, you know what you about me? He said,
you have your male female energy really in balance. And
(38:15):
I was like, I love, That's like the best compliment.
I was like, great, because I feel very female, but
I'm I'm sort of a tomboy and I and I said,
oh my gosh, I would say that about Brad. And
that's why, you know, we do have our conflicts, but
they're not gendered. So he I say this because he
is very good at friendships and relationships. He values them
(38:35):
and puts time into them and all that stuff. Do
you think you could be a part of it?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
I do, by Trey.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
It's all tree.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah, But do you think that if if he's very
good about being social and that's his thing, then if
one of your children is less social, does he see
that as a huge deficit, just because that's where he
comes from.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Well, he's he's funny, like I'm I'm social and an
exhibitionist and sort of more of a like we very
early on in our marriage we would have a little
not big spots, but small spots because I always want
to stay at a party longer. And we're like, this
is a big problem, and we're like, how about we
both take two cars? Right, It's just like not actually
not a problem. So he would say he's shy, right
(39:22):
like and and but Body's that way too. I mean
they have sort of and that's because ultimately I'm I'm
shy in some ways but not really and so they've
taught me like it's a real thing, like don't just
say you know so. So I think he and Body
have a good understanding of that.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Yeah, I guess why, because I was. I would say
that when I have an agility to do something that
my son doesn't have an agility, who's great at so
many other things. I always think, oh, I always see that
as a problem, Yeah, fix this, yes, when in fact
maybe it's not a problem. Maybe it's just they don't
need that part, I know, And they're good at other things. Yes,
(40:03):
I don't speak Russian. He speaks Russian. Yeah, yeah, like okay,
he doesn't do this other thing.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Read the Andrew Holomon book. It's just this very basic
idea of parents and children and difference. Yeah, but again
that the humanity of it is. Like my mom when
I got to college and I was meeting because of
theater and because of who I am, like lots and
lots and lots of gay mostly guys, but like it
was really I still have lots of queer people around me,
(40:30):
and I remember my mom and she really liked some
of these, a lot of these friends that I was meeting,
And she said very sweetly once, She's like, I'm kind
of glad you and your brothers aren't gay, and my
hackles went up. I was like, okay, well, and she said,
I just I don't know that world, right, you know.
And I was like, okay, I get that, but that's
what our children do. They lead us into new worlds,
and it's okay to acknowledge.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
That, like I don't know, Okay, So now, old man,
let's talk about the old man. Great show, amazing show.
What's he like? What bridges like?
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Heaven?
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean you just think he's going to
be fantastic, yeah, and then he turns out to be
exactly fantastic.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Okay, Yeah, I mean he's did you.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Know him before the show?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
No? No, we just fell in love. I mean we
just loved each other dearly. And yeah, I mean there's
a million things to say. I mean he's so present
as a human and as an actor, also knows this
art form right really well, and like Liftgow, who is
(41:36):
also heavenly in another way but kind of similar way,
actually very nurturing men, like talk about healthy masculine. I mean, like,
oh my god, Like these guys are just what you
want to be, you know. And for me, like fifteen
eighteen years out, was like that looks good, right, that
looks like a great light.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
But Liftgow does a lot of theater, yeah, I And
I was doing because I started like slipping plays and
during Old Man, partly because there was just so much
delay with COVID and Jeff's illness and the strike and
it just you know, so I would do places. And
I remember asking Jeff. I was like, do you ever
want to do theater? He's like, Nope, not really. I
was like, why he's like, I don't know. He's like,
I think I get bored doing it over and over
(42:15):
like he get and I just I mean, there's so
many great stories, but I remember this one. You know.
It was like two in the morning and we're both sleepy,
and it was a scene where I come out and
an outfit and he's just you know, it's like a
smoldery movie star. And like one minute he's just sitting
there like fat, like Lebowski, you know, and then the
(42:38):
cameras roll and it's like he fucked me with his eyes.
I was like, holy motherfucker, Like you know this talk
about you know how big, how small, how and just
just a wonderful human just just also, you know, I
was doing like an ePK and I and I said,
(42:59):
I just I just feel loved. I feel seen and
loved and cherished. And then I pause and I was like,
you know what, And I think everybody on this set
would say that because that is his intention, right, Like
I get a little special yummy because I'm his love interest.
But I think for him and Lithgoo and people that
(43:19):
have stayed in the game in such a beautiful, generative way,
part of the joy of being on a set is
encouraging right, people too, you know, it's the opposite of
self is crazy, right.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Getting back to this sort of the artist honesty thing.
As an artist, I also want to be honest. And
I think I can be honest in my writing because
it's not me, yeah, because I'm hiding in a character
and other things. But if it was me, if it's
truly me, if it's about me, I think I would
have a heart love.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
And it's and it's funny, I mean, I I you know,
we actors are kind of sneaky because I when I do,
when I do overcome, it is me, right, But I'm
also have a persona that I'm doing, you know what
I mean. It's not it's very different from me, you know,
sobbing with my therapist, you know. But I think that
that it is a way, you know, my soul, my
(44:16):
psyche recognizes, like we need to process this thing, whatever
it is, if it's personal, if it's and and this
is how we do it, and then you can see it,
then it's up and out right. I think that I
think that's the gift of a that you have that
it's like I need to see it and then and
(44:39):
then I can start working with it, right. I mean
that's the thing. I've worked a lot with dreams. It's like,
oh that a dream is the psyche just going like, hey,
you take a look at this thing. It's like little
like breadcrumbs on the way. So I feel like I
kind of get it more and more. I mean, honestly,
I'm more and more interested in live performance, which would
(44:59):
include actually like what we on Frasier. I'm very interested
in that. I think that with AI, with COVID, with
it's like we need I need, and I think others
need enjoy being in rooms with other people.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yeah, I mean it's a lonely world. I think this
really is a lonely world for everybody, especially younger people.
Generations below me and us are are kind of lonely.
Even though they're communicating through phones, they're not face to
face in a room. That's kind of what the reason
I do this only face to face. I don't do
this on a zoom or anything like that. I want
(45:34):
to communicate with somebody in the room because I feel
like there's too little of that in our lives. So
I agree that there's something there's a value to being
in person live not a machine. Not an AI all
that stuff. But I don't know. I mean, that stuff
is coming. Whether we like it or not. I wouldn't
fit it.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
It is.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
I mean, it's also a tool, you know. It's like
I think it's I mean, yeah, I mean I had
this moment and by son where he was showing me
the with the Google thing with this crazy AAI that
gets by prompt and it's like I was like, wow, like,
what's the there's gonna be ha to be sort of
a watermark if like otherwise are you going to use
these clips and you know, courtrooms or you know, there's
(46:14):
got it and and but he's like, you know, I
don't know. I don't know if there will be And
I've never said this before and it actually felt really
true and right, and I suddenly was like, well, buddy,
I'll be long gone. Yeah, you guys are gonna have
to figure that out, right, because that's called liable, it's
called slander like. But it was a pivot for me
rather than oh that's another thing I have to worry
(46:35):
about it and fix, you know. I was like, I
don't do that tech thing. I mean, I'm not a coder.
He is, you know. I was like I might want
to get on that.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Uh, well, I have so much more to talk to
you about, but we're running out of time and I
just want to get to some of the other things
because we have a viewer question that we have to
answer some other things. So let's let's get to the
viewer question. Now. It's time for listener man. Somebody wrote
in a question. It's not specifically for you. It's they
(47:06):
write in viewers write in your general questions, and somebody
brilliant like her is going to answer them. This is
from main Math. It's not a math question, and it's
actually quite fitting for you. It says, what is the
greatest gift you can give your kids? That's what Maynard
wants to know.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
I think having a happy life of my own, not
needing them to to be anything that I have a
to see their mom and their dad to model a
happy life.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
How do you balance that with twenty plus years of
spending so much energy and time and focus on them? Like,
how do you like that? That's definitely a vocation and
a job that you've taken on and and very well with,
But like, how do you then say, Okay, by the way,
(48:04):
I'm going to give that job up and do this
new job.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Well, I think I'm a working mom, so that's sort
of been built in. And like with judging Amy, I
had Charlotte during that time, it was excreme. I mean,
who wants I had to go back to work when
she was four months old. Like, I don't recommend that
it was terrible, but I think that what that communicated,
like when I had it was so terrible. At first,
I was just exhausted and she I mean, I needless,
(48:27):
you know, I don't need to go into that because we've.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
All through it.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
But I and I would come home in tears every
day from shooting and I would say to Brad what
would happen if I quit? And he was, you know,
your mental health is most important, but probably you wouldn't
be able to do for a while if you broke
a contract. Right. But even at that time, what I
did realize was my the little imp that likes acting
(48:58):
is my inner child and arguably Charlotte. I had my
second child, my first one being myself. And if I
ditched my own self, right because I want to be
a better mother, therein lies disaster. I mean then for me,
oh yeah, then it's like that's how people are terrible
mother for me. So I think always I had an
(49:18):
awareness of like we're doing a balancing act here, but
I never didn't work or pursue my own stuff.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
So that means so is that taking what you consider
sort of having your life and taking care of yourself
is being active artistically.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
And that well, it's just literally saying, especially as a
mom to the extent that moms have more hands on
in most families, not every family at the beginning, just
like you're gonna be okay with the babysitter, Like I'm
gonna go right.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
See now, when I tell my wife, I said, like,
let it go, just let him deal with it on
his own. That is tantamount to me saying die. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
She hears like you don't love me, you don't yeah,
your son? Yeah, and you're telling me to go fuck
off and die?
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah. Now what you're thinking, Yeah, I mean, listen, everybody's different.
I think it's at a certain point everybody has to individuate, right,
And I think I think keeping in back coming back
to this question, and this is again my personal opinion,
having an identity outside of being a mother, or in
(50:24):
addition to being a mother is a gift to my
children that they don't need to fulfill me.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yeah. For me, the greatest gift I can give my
son is a saving response. Yeah, honestly, that's it. Just
keep accruing. That's the greatest gift. But we have different.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
Parents, and I'm sure your son is thriving.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
He's doing fine, doing fine. And now is the section
of the show we'd like to call the moment of joy.
A moment of joy? What is something that brings you joy?
It can't be work, so it can't be acting, can't
be family, Okay, it has to be something other.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Can it be porn?
Speaker 3 (51:05):
Sure? Yeah, mostly it's beyond that. Yeah, but anything that
sort of you can turn to that says Okay, if
I do this on a regular basis, it really fulfills me.
So that's why it is mostly porn.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Okay, Well, I I'll do two. One is not original
at all. But the natural world will always bring me joy,
bring me perspective and just fascinate me. I'll just sort
of get interested in and it just feels good in
(51:41):
my body, Like getting my body into three office screen
three D nature brings me joy.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Like are you desert? Are you mountain? Or you beach
like you.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I like it all. I mean, I'm not sort of
a hardcore desert like I don't ever crave going to
like Palm Springs. We we have this home in Martha's Vineyard,
which is very rural on the water, and for me,
it's this religion scholar named Mersey Eliota calls about access
(52:15):
Mundy like everybody has their center of the world, and
I do feel what I'm on that property and on
that island. I'm like the other thing, which is not
an everyday thing. But in this conversation about activism and
art making stuff, I've thought, like, what is something I
can contribute that interests me and is sort of not
(52:36):
is joyful honestly. So a lot of us are talking
about circus and clowns and satire and things that are
tools in dealing with autocracy. So I was on a
call with a webinar, not a call with five thousand
people learning about clowns and circus. And the guy, I
(53:00):
think it's called up Tier he was part of this
group in Serbia that brought down Molisevit or helped it through.
They were student theater people, Like I'm like, oh, oh
my god, like this is so interesting.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
So the clowns brought down Lussovich. They would do with
water from the daisies.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
They would do public you know, think think, think Charlie
Chaplin and the gra So they would do they would
do public art installations that would bring because you know,
there's all sorts of coming back to comedy. It's like
if you can tyrann ston't like we make fun of
you know, there's like I'm interested in, like this is
why this moment in time as terrible and fraught as
(53:43):
it is. There's what I was talking to Jamie Raskin
a couple of weeks ago and I was like, you
know what, I just I want to I want to
like go to these marches and like offer something and
I don't know. I'm a theater maker, so what would
it be. And he's like, well, there's a non violent
protester puppeteer in my district. Here's her number. I was like,
I'm so excited about, like when would that exchange?
Speaker 3 (54:03):
Often?
Speaker 1 (54:04):
So there's people and maybe they are a little bit
individual right now, but that are cooking about like what
can I offer?
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Right? Well?
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Great, well, thank you for being here. This is so
delightful and I wish you well on your journey, and
it's nice that you're taking time for yourself and taking
time for theater, yeah, and taking time for all that stuff,
and that you're going to save the country at the
same time. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
It should take like another year, but then it's all good.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
A year and a half, right, year and a half
till the next elections. But it was great seeing you again.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
And thank you for Fay too.
Speaker 3 (54:39):
Oh yeah, my pleasure and Chris Lloyd's pleasure and all
the actual people who wrote that show. Like again, I
took credit for a first draft that was written and
made fabulous by twenty really great writers. So but you
were fantastic in the show and made it really special. Thanks.
Thanks for being here, and thank you for being here.
Thanks for tuning into Don't Be Along with Jake Cogan.
(55:00):
Write me at dbawjk at gmail dot com with your
comments and suggestions and compliments and good reviews or bad
reviews if that's the case I can handle it, and
questions for my guests. I really appreciate it, and remember
to subscribe and take the time to not be alone,
do something fun with somebody, or cover a conversation with somebody.
(55:21):
Connect with somebody. You will be happier and you make
the world better. I'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Don't be alone with jj cog
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