November 7, 2025 • 28 mins
Rick and Jay talk about stupid mistakes, shoe money, James Burrows, Cheers, directing people, not getting the girl, and the moment you reveal your big secret and no one cares.
Bio: Rick Beren grew up in the Sixties and Seventies in the very liberal Bay Area. Even then, he managed to push the boundaries of tolerance of his parents, teachers, and eventually, the law. Mostly minor indiscretions, and all (always) in the pursuit of fun, but it landed him in the Vacaville State prison for selling one quarter gram of cocaine. The quality was so poor, he should’ve been convicted of false advertising. Anyway, his girlfriend also was sent to State prison (unfortunately, not by his side) for women. She had sold the same undercover agent, some 200 amphetamine pills. They were in college at the time (1977) and spent about 5 months in jail. The story of Ricks book is told with humor, compassion and a what the fuck attitude of how could this little, entitled, Jew end up in prison with Charles Manson and his ilk? As I say, He was probably always headed in that direction. Speaking of direction. In less than five years after his release, he was the director's assistant on his favorite show, Cheers. Rick found his life calling and immersed himself in the bliss of being around these amazingly talented people. He worked his way up the ladder and became a director himself and on that very show! He went on to direct many shows and worked in the industry for four decades. Along the way, he fell into an amazing relationship (with a girl who was not an ex-con) and they have two (so far not ex-con) daughters. Life turned out pretty fucking great. And the highlight of his life and career was being able to spend time with Jay ( the legend) Kogen in an intimate (edited) two hour conversation. Jay wants his time backing the form of a poker game where he can monetize his efforts.
Bio: Rick Beren grew up in the Sixties and Seventies in the very liberal Bay Area. Even then, he managed to push the boundaries of tolerance of his parents, teachers, and eventually, the law. Mostly minor indiscretions, and all (always) in the pursuit of fun, but it landed him in the Vacaville State prison for selling one quarter gram of cocaine. The quality was so poor, he should’ve been convicted of false advertising. Anyway, his girlfriend also was sent to State prison (unfortunately, not by his side) for women. She had sold the same undercover agent, some 200 amphetamine pills. They were in college at the time (1977) and spent about 5 months in jail. The story of Ricks book is told with humor, compassion and a what the fuck attitude of how could this little, entitled, Jew end up in prison with Charles Manson and his ilk? As I say, He was probably always headed in that direction. Speaking of direction. In less than five years after his release, he was the director's assistant on his favorite show, Cheers. Rick found his life calling and immersed himself in the bliss of being around these amazingly talented people. He worked his way up the ladder and became a director himself and on that very show! He went on to direct many shows and worked in the industry for four decades. Along the way, he fell into an amazing relationship (with a girl who was not an ex-con) and they have two (so far not ex-con) daughters. Life turned out pretty fucking great. And the highlight of his life and career was being able to spend time with Jay ( the legend) Kogen in an intimate (edited) two hour conversation. Jay wants his time backing the form of a poker game where he can monetize his efforts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, this is Rick Baron and I'm really looking forward
to being alone with ja Cogan. It's been one of
my dreams, so I'm so excited. What do we do.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Don't Be Bonus episode. Hi, welcome to Don't Be Alone
with Jake Cogan. This week's episode, you're about to hear.
(00:35):
I don't know what you're about to hear. I gotta
be honest. My friend Rick Baron came in and he
wrote this book. He had the balls to write a
book about his h his experience going to jail, which
is awesome and I respect that completely. I also want
to say that I really appreciate your your email and contact.
(00:56):
When you write me at dB A w jk at
gmail dot so, you can send me your questions, especially
your questions for the guests. Send a general life question,
something that's on your mind that you want to answered
to dbawjkatgmail dot com, and I will have questions to
be answered. In addition, subscribe when you want to subscribe.
(01:17):
That'd be great. We're getting a lot of subscribers and
that's fantastic and I just heard a podcast which is fantastic.
If you have the chance to listen to the history
of rock and roll in five hundred songs. Do it.
If you're a music nerd like me. It's one of
the best things. And he ends every show by saying,
tell one friend about the show. He said, the word
(01:37):
of mouth is everything, and that made total sense to me.
So if you like this show, tell at least one
friend this week about the show, and maybe we'll get
a group of like minded people together listening to the
show and we can be more of a community. I
would love that. I would love a community with you
and people like you. So please join me and be
(02:00):
part of my community. And we'll be right back with
Rick barn right after this. And so Rick, we met
each other both professionally, probably first, but then we also
played poker at one point in time, I'm not sure,
and a few games.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
How would you forget I'm the guy that's always in
it in the first.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Played with a lot of Rick Barns. Then because I
played with a lot of people who are always in
and sometimes it's me.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, that's how you can afford all this equipment.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
But the reason I thank you for being here, Rick,
and thank you for taking at such short notice, which
is sad about your life but happy for mine. But
you the reason that way you were on my mind
is because you wrote this book called jelhouse Rick. I did.
And so this show is about don't be along with
Jay Coogan, is about me talking to people about my problems.
(02:56):
But first, before I hit my problems, I can beat
your problem. I want you to talk a little bit
about the history that made you write this book.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Okay, I will. This happened to me about fifty years ago.
I was a twenty two year old kid at college,
a state college, just having them. First of all, just
so the autist is I know you as a director? Yes,
as a director, right, okay? So so I directed a
script that you wrote for Ned and Stacy. Okay, And
the way I met you was through a speaker box.
(03:29):
That's how long ago. It was no video because it
was a table read and you were somewhere else, somewhere
more important than your table read, and there was just
your dis embodied voice.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Very important. Yeah, that sounds very important. It was I
thought you were like God, okay, and then.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
We read this great script and you know, you would
make comments and everybody was like leaning their head and
tilting their head into the box and yeah, and there
was no the sound was not great. What is an intimidation?
Oh my god, I should do that here. I could
just put a box on the table. It would just
feel more comfortable, right, So you and I went. I
(04:07):
don't think he'll remember this, but we went to the location.
He had written a script that involved a location. So
these two little Jews drove to this location and there
was this wonderful DP who was very experienced and older
than us, and he had set up that he had
done the setup, you know, where he wanted the lights
and stuff, and you know, I said, I wanted it
(04:30):
on the complete opposite side, and you were, you know,
okay with that, We're driving my little Carmen Gia. Do
you remember this at all?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I don't remember this at all. And I'm shocked they
even let us off the lot.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
We took extra Yeah they did, they did.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
They let us off the lot.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
What was it, Jay Collins screen?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, I guess I can't argue with the man on
the box.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
No, okay, he came in personally. I think he flew in,
you know, a lyric jet and landed and then.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
That sounds totally like me.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, that was you and then uh, you know, we
got back in my little car that was annoying to
any real man. It was a baby blue car. You
were completely comfortable in it, as was I. And I said,
look and look in the rear view mirror, because we
just fucked these guys whole day by making them switch
(05:16):
all the equipment. I go, you know, you and I
just ruined everybody's life. Yeah, and that's their fault for
making a choice without us. They chose that and we
it was completely.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
That's all right. So now I so I remember that,
all right, But but let's let's let's stay on track here.
So you're a director, but you're you went to jail
a kid, you went to college. I was having a party, school.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Party, School of the country, remember the Playboy?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Uh, sir, which school was this?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Chico? This was Aren't you gonna hold it up like
Johnny Carson to the book? I did this, I know.
But and then he'd say I read it last night
or something. I never believed him. So now you've just
but you admitted to me that you never you got
to a little bit.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Okay, But okay, so Chico State. Yeah, there's a number
one prison, number one party. As there is in Orville.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But so I was having the time in my life
and I had a girlfriend and was partying and like
we all did in the seventies, and then this this
guy came into this little bar that I substituted for
my girlfriend at the time and said, can I get
some speed? And you know, I'd never I had not
(06:32):
really done speed, but I said, like an idiot, oh,
I can get you coke. So he just, you know,
thought he hit the gold mine because he ended up being.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
A narc Okay, so, so you went into get speed,
but then you offered to sell this guy drugs. Right,
there's your mistake.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
It was my first not my first one either, Okay, yeah,
because I had done this before, all right, yeah with pot.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
So oh you had been busted by selling pot before.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not. I'm a slow learner, stupid, I'm not.
I'm really hoping you'll take the rest of this conversation
because I want to not show how dumb.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
All right, well already, I'm just you know how many
times I sold drugs to narcotics officers? Zero? Zero times?
Yeah you and zero times?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Well you you know you were smarter than I am.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, you know how many times I purchased cocaine from
someone a few zero times, really zero times. Yeah, I
don't know. You got it for free. I tried it
once for free. I'm not a good purchaser of of narcotics. Well,
and I'm not a big user either, But that's that's
the other thing.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I'm not either anymore. I only sold them to make
enough money to do them because I was too cheap
to buy them, right. And then you're kind of a
big shot because you know I'm insecure.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Right, I mean, kids, kids love the guy with the
free drugs.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, and once you stop, you don't have any friends,
you know, they're they just disappear. You're going, what happened
to all these people that used to go upstairs with
me and just talk about Middle East politics?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Right?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And nobody wants to do that anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That may be a factor of your conversation about Middle East.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Politics is not so good. No, in the middle it
should be a little better. So anyway, we got arrested,
me and this girl friend of mine, and we went
to trial, a little court trial for something nowadays would
have been just of course laughed out of the system.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Sure, because they don't have they have so many people
locked up. They can't even afford to put degenerate criminals
like you in jail.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
No, back then, yeah, there was free space. Yeah, they
have plenty of space. And it was a quarter of
a gram.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
You know, to describe to those of us who were
used to English weights and measures. Yeah, a quarter of
a gram is how It's like the size of a die. Like,
what is it?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's about as much sugar you put on your cereal.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
The packet spoonful less, spoonful spoonful of it's very low.
Plus a spoonful of cocaine makes the medicine go down.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, well it didn't for me, but yeah, so then they, uh,
there was a huge dog and pony show and they they.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Who got involved? Your parents?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, my parents were there to support me. I had
to come home and tell them, you.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Know what happened.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I mean, you know that's a horrible time, right, I.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Mean who built you out?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well, we got out on something called our o R
was just our own recognissance. So yeah, they let you out,
so you're free.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well no, it's okay. I mean, because you know, we
weren't harmful to society. It says you well we weren't selling.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You're out in the bars offering drugs.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well, no, I couldn't afford it anymore to buy ourselves,
so they let us out. We were innocent, little well
not so innocent at that time. We were innocent, but
college kids that you know. When I looked out after
we got I said, you know, the world hasn't really
suffered I mean much that I mean, just if they
wipe their hands of this, we'd be okay. And but
(10:09):
there was this one guy, a villain that wanted me
to go to jail for five years.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
This villain worked for the government. Maybe he was a
district attorney. Was a no.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
The district attorney was kind of on our side, but
he was a probation officer and it was up to
him to recommend. And I believe he was anti Semitic
and didn't like my relationship with the girl and didn't
like my father was well off and he was successful
and dignified, and he didn't like that relationship and we
(10:44):
had money. You know, he didn't like me.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Period. You were being pursued for being for committing a
crime that most people would be sort of given a scolding.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And then walked away. By this slap on the wrist,
and we expected that. You know, we went to this trial,
had lawyers, and my dad had a lot of possible help.
He had a senator, his best friend from his Jewish
fraternity is a judge, was a judge, you know, different.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
He had a lot of very important people in his pockets,
like the Godfather. Yes, he could have helped, No wonder,
I'm with the other guy now, that piole.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Officers, right, yeah, well he you know, he had a
heart on and it's okay. I mean, you know, it
was a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
That was his job.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Long story short, that we ended up getting sent to
state prison. You know, imagine the little jew and so
she did too, she did to different state prison, right anyway,
So you know, state prison is kind of a mind blow,
you know. I mean in the first chapter, I was
(11:49):
doing my little job, which was running errands for one
of the policemen in the guards. And you know, you
had a little piece of paper that you that he
would write the note on what you had to do.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's how archaic it was.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
There was no telephones, there was no cell phones, there
was no you know, intercoms. So I was delivering this
note to somebody in some cell block, and they closed
the whole cell block.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It was two hundred.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Feet at least by fifty feet this gleaming, shining hallway,
and it was just me alone in there. And because
I wasn't really experience of what you're supposed to do
and where you're supposed to go, so I at the
all of a sudden there's a these doors burst open
(12:41):
at the end of the cell the block, and there's
like eight guards with shotguns, and.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You would walked into the wrong place.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I was stuck in the wrong place, and so they're going, halt,
and you know, did you halt? I was the only
guy that so I figured, you, halting is what I
should do, and I halted, and they marched towards me
and pointed all their guns at me, and uh. In
this little circle was this very little man that was
(13:15):
their prisoner being transported to another area. And I caught
a glimpse of him, and it's Charles Manson, and I
was like, well, that's.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Not something that happens every day. Sure, you know, he
immediately fell into his culture, is how powerful he was.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
You know, it was pretty it was pretty daunting, because
you know, you do feel this power, and you know,
he looked up at me and I'm not tall as
you know, and he.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Looked up at me and you know, yeah the Nazi
swastika and carved into his forehead. Yeah, and this like
people do.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, and like most of my crowd that I hung
out before that, and I I this was shortly after
you know, he had just been found. I mean, this
was seventy seven and his crimes were in about sixty nine,
so it was only a few years, you know, So
it was it was pretty eye opening.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So how long how long were you in This was
in there for about five months? What was the biggest
lesson you took from being imprisoned? That's interesting. I think
since you asked it, this could have been something to
put in the book, could have been sorry, you contacted
me well after the bucsis.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
So the most interesting thing I think is that there's
no rehabilitation going on. Yeah, you know, it's all fun
and games. You know, they're having a good time in there.
There's food, basketball, drugs, alcohol, sex. All their friends you know,
are in there, right and it's not misery and they
(15:20):
it's it's not misery, no for them, they but for
you well, I was in hell second, so there's misery
for me. But these other guys portrayed a there's peals
of laughter, you know when they would walk together and
be together, and it was kind of upsetting, you know.
(15:41):
And I asked a group once because all they talk
about is their crime and how to perfect it, right,
you know, And I said, you know, you guys, I mean,
is there any thought possibly you know, you got to
couch your words and be careful, you know, just maybe
just getting out and you know, going straight. Yeah, yeah,
And you know, as while they're trying to perfect their crime,
(16:05):
they're talking about killing the witnesses, sure, you know, And
I go, you know, why, why wouldn't we just let
it all go and move to another town or something,
And just you know.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I didn't believe. There's no reason for it. There's their
system is working perfectly for them, just the way it is.
And as you say, like many people say, jail is
a school for criminals to get better at being a criminal.
And you tempted it all, become a criminal. Did you
learn anything within it? And said, oh, well, you know what,
or I could become a famous director. But you know,
(16:37):
you didn't think.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
About that right then, I did. I wanted to be
a writer, but I wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
How did you know? How did you know then that
I wasn't good enough? Why did you think?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
No? I thought I was good enough then. But then
I got onto Cheers. You know, I snuck onto the lot.
So I used my criminal all the things that you
learned yes to not do. I snuck onto Paramount and
I went to the Cheers offices. And it was during
a hiatus which I didn't even know anything about. Do
you remember the Cheers? They were the Fraser upstairs from Frase. Yeah,
(17:08):
and nobody was there. A secretary, lonely secretary. And I
was like really, And so I gave her my script
and she called me back in a couple hours and
I was like, I'm in right and she said, yeah,
this is you know, not good, No, not even So
let me ask you this, Okay, So did you have
to This is my question because I'm always constantly able
(17:31):
to recreate myself to figure out who I am and
what i'm you come out of jail, do you feel different?
Do you feel like you have to recreate who you are.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Now that you're now you're a convict, but are you still,
like when you come out of jail, it's just a
back to who you were.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I think I felt I had to get my shit together.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Okay, Yeah, so it was a wake up call. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I knew that I had to not do what I
was doing before because it wasn't getting me anywhere. So
I wanted but I wanted.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
To get back. You and the girl get back together.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, I was just going to say I wanted to
get back with her, you know. And she went down
to San Diego, right, and I had had another girl.
If I was her dad, I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You got to stay away. Her dad didn't know the
whole anything. She avoided telling her father for five months
in prison. Yep, she was in there for about three Yeah,
she was in there for three She avoid in for
three months and just avoid telling your parents.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Well it was a different time, you know. It's crazy,
I know. And she would you know, her sister and
her live together in Chico, and god, I shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, I guess I can say that.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And the dad, the parents would call and she'd say, oh,
you just missed so and so she just went out
the door.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
She you know, she's at work three months.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, and the dad had six daughters, so I guess
he was like whatever hearing from one less And yes,
they avoid it now Jewish parents, we don't. We can't
get away with them.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
No, So three days is kind of like the limit.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, that's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So so the dad didn't know. And I did meet
him once at her wedding afterwards.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And and he was like hugs and kisses. You know.
So you wanted to get back to the girl. The
girl would not get back.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Together with She did not want to get back together wisely,
you know, we were not a good fit. I just
wanted to end it on my own terms. I didn't
want the County of Oraville to, you know, end this relationship.
I felt, you know, if it's going to end, it's
going to end on you know, naturally. So I went
(19:37):
down there after a year, and I made him a
bunch of money, and I enrolled in school and and
lived near her, and you know, we'd see each other
and you know, she give me a little comb here
and there, and then, uh, it just wasn't working out.
Plus they flunked out of San Diego State, So you know,
(19:59):
I mean, I wasn't wasn't a name.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
You're terrible. You're a terrible candidate our boyfriend. And I
guess why I'm asking is deeper question, which is, once
you decided I need to change my life, Yeah, then
you still flunk out of school? Like what that doesn't
sound like you were motivated.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
I'm not a good student. I just cannot learn the
traditional way. Like I had a friend. I was in
this class in San Diego. I don't know what it was,
and and he goes, look, dude, you know you're smart
because you're you're at least smarter than most of these people.
I mean San Diego State, for god's sakes, it's fine school.
(20:34):
It was int then. But so so he he he goes,
we have a test tomorrow. Yeah, he goes, So, here's
the subject. This is what he's going to ask us.
He told us what he's going to ask us, right,
and it's right here.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
It says the rocks formed in twenty and nineteen or whatever,
and that's all you got to do. And I go,
I don't get it. I mean, doesn't he want an
answer that's like creative or something like, you know, the
rocks formed by dinosaurs fighting over sure? You know?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So I just I couldn't say back, what there's some
kind of ADHD thing going?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, all right, yeah, I was looking out the windows
right when they're teaching you stuff. So that's so I
I high tailed it up to La where all the
people with ADHD pile their their their nervousness and their
distraction into entertainment. Yeah. So, and I wanted to be
a writer. Okay, you know, so I said, well, this
(21:35):
is where I got to go.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
All right, So so my my question about how you
how did you did? Did jail force you to recreate yourself?
My answer I'm getting is no, that you did not.
Jail is not the thing.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I'm a slow learner that made you recreate yourself. I
think what recreated me was working on chairs. Okay, you know,
I think that.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I found your passion. That's different. Yeah, you found something,
you were passionate about it, and then you said, Okay,
I'm going to throw myself into something I love. And
that's that's not like, oh my life has to change.
That is just oh fantastic. I've stepped into something a
wonderland and I'm going to I'm going to enjoy myself,
which makes total sense too.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Right, No, I'm not as deep. I can't go back
to the river.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
My first question, which was a great question, which is
well something I need to find somebody else who recreated.
Does it bother you at all that most people who
are under thirty don't know what Cheers is at all?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It's just such a sign of the times, you know,
I mean, you just sometimes you know, you'll say, somebody
will say what do.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
You do or what you know?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
You know, I just work on sitcoms and direct what
shows and.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Then lid list and you see the blank look in
their eyes when they say these are award winning. Cheers
was considered one of the best shows ever to be
on TV. It's a top ten forever show.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I never saw No No, My dad, my grandfather
used to watch that. I think, yeah, I know, it's
it's but that's the sign.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Of the times. I know that that's the world awful.
It's it's not awful. Well, it's just true. It's just
like like we're we didn't know, you know, Fibber McGee
and Molly or whatever else. There was the radio shows.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
That no, no, we didn't and you know, but life
began at the Beatles, so you know, they because I
remember my grandfather was like, we'll never last, you know,
like okay, well so yeah, no, it was. It is
kind of just concerned. And it's great when they do
know it or something. But I don't know if cheers
aged as as greatly as some of the others. I
(23:28):
don't know, do you all right?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I think it's still pretty damn good. And I think
it's a it's a forever show. I think it's great. Yeah,
I think it's great. So so that's cool. But a
lot of people, including myself, who've been writing for forty
five fifty years, right, I'm intimidated to write something that's
like this a memoir, And so I'm wondering, did you
have to go through anything to figure out, Okay, this
(23:52):
is going to be worth it. Here are the parameters
of the story. This is the amount of life I
wanted to tell. What how did you get through it?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I just I think I told it more like a
newspaper reporting. You know, it's basically just this happened, uh,
you know, in this day, and these things occurred to me.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I mean, this not occurred to me. These things happened
to me, happened to us.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And uh, you know, I tried to incorporate the times
of the seventies, the music and the fashion and the.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Politics. Just Spireau Agnew is all over your book, which
is weird. He just pops up as a character in
the jail. You don't believe that that he was a cellmator.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah he was. He was in there. Spirou was the
only unelected No, Gerald Ford is the only unelected. Never,
nobody ever voted for him, and he became president. Yeah,
nobody ever cast a vote for him. So I just
kind of just spewed out what happened. I don't I
(24:58):
don't know if I put a lot of my emotions
in there. I mean i'd say, I, you know, I
felt horrible and guilty, and you know, it was a
ridiculous situation. But I didn't save anybody.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
No, I mean, that's the thing about it is this,
You're in jail because of your own mistakes. Yes, you're
you're trying to get through it with your own you know,
will will while Skyle Gyle and wits.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Which which you've witnessed are very limited.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
The fact that you're alive is amazing. But it's like,
you know, that's that's the whole book, Okay, then you
come out of it. You know, I think the wiser
for having had that experience. Although it didn't it wasn't transformative.
It sounds like I No.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I think I was lucky that nothing in my life
had really happened, so I didn't lose out on kids, wife, career, right, fortune, fame, anything.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It happened at a period I was twenty two and
completely under developed, so nothing really was affected. I was
lucky enough to have the support of my family and
to fall back on, which a lot of these people don't, right.
I mean, that's why they're back in jail, right, you
know they don't get out and write a lot of
people sometimes it's their best option.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, it honestly is.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You know, they're not going to trade or Vix for
dinner for a celebratory meal.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Credit Vix for you kids was a restaurant that people
used to go to and they had Polynesian food for
some reason, and lots of.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Booze for a celebratory meal.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Celebratory meal. Okay, well, now let's flip the switch the script,
as I say, and go to the moment of joy.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yes, that's a good one. A moment of joy. What
is something that brings you joy. And I'm going to
exclude your children, exclude your wife. Anything can be anything
other than those things.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
When I get into bed and I'm not going to
watch a game or something, or my wife's with me,
are going to watch something, and the dogs are on
top of me, and the house is like all cool, right,
and I got a beautiful home with lots of landscaping.
You know, that's that's really a great moment.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
So that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I mean, I think I think people my dogs, you know,
I mean, dogs make you happy, Dogs make that's good. Yeah,
I mean I love happy.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, I love my dogs.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
We came back from Tahoe a day early because the
guy that, yeah, the guy that was watching him show
a picture of the dogs upside down, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Pause, that's like, it's love. They're they're wandering, big furry
love love creature saying, and it's great to feel their connection.
And it may just be a trick of evolution that's
how they get fed, but it's a good trick. It's
an actually good trick.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
No, it's it's we should all have something like that,
all right.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
So Rick, Yes, this is the book you wrote. Thank you, Rick,
Please buy it. Yeah, and uh and and and tell me, uh,
you know your viewers at home telling me what you
get out of it. Where is the change, where's the
the metamorphosis of this guy to this guy? So it's
very it's it's great.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Can I hold it up next to my face? It's
just camera gonna work. Sure, it's not working. It's not
that the light doesn't really, so I thought I was
not on the whole time. I was on the whole time.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Cameras, all the cameras record how's the how's the face?
Pretty good? Really? Pretty?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Really? Okay, now it's lit the camera. It's the only
time for you. No, that's the only time. I think
this is the only close up.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
But I got that. Yeah, that'd be a great editing system.
But what a hot dude. Well, thank you for being here.
I really appreciate it, and thank you for listening to
us go on and on. I will say that you
should spend some time with somebody like Rick. It was
a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. So you
go out and have some fun with somebody, don't be alone,
and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Don't
Straw Hut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, this is Rick Baron and I'm really looking forward
to being alone with ja Cogan. It's been one of
my dreams, so I'm so excited. What do we do.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Don't Be Bonus episode. Hi, welcome to Don't Be Alone
with Jake Cogan. This week's episode, you're about to hear.
(00:35):
I don't know what you're about to hear. I gotta
be honest. My friend Rick Baron came in and he
wrote this book. He had the balls to write a
book about his h his experience going to jail, which
is awesome and I respect that completely. I also want
to say that I really appreciate your your email and contact.
(00:56):
When you write me at dB A w jk at
gmail dot so, you can send me your questions, especially
your questions for the guests. Send a general life question,
something that's on your mind that you want to answered
to dbawjkatgmail dot com, and I will have questions to
be answered. In addition, subscribe when you want to subscribe.
(01:17):
That'd be great. We're getting a lot of subscribers and
that's fantastic and I just heard a podcast which is fantastic.
If you have the chance to listen to the history
of rock and roll in five hundred songs. Do it.
If you're a music nerd like me. It's one of
the best things. And he ends every show by saying,
tell one friend about the show. He said, the word
(01:37):
of mouth is everything, and that made total sense to me.
So if you like this show, tell at least one
friend this week about the show, and maybe we'll get
a group of like minded people together listening to the
show and we can be more of a community. I
would love that. I would love a community with you
and people like you. So please join me and be
(02:00):
part of my community. And we'll be right back with
Rick barn right after this. And so Rick, we met
each other both professionally, probably first, but then we also
played poker at one point in time, I'm not sure,
and a few games.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
How would you forget I'm the guy that's always in
it in the first.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Played with a lot of Rick Barns. Then because I
played with a lot of people who are always in
and sometimes it's me.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, that's how you can afford all this equipment.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
But the reason I thank you for being here, Rick,
and thank you for taking at such short notice, which
is sad about your life but happy for mine. But
you the reason that way you were on my mind
is because you wrote this book called jelhouse Rick. I did.
And so this show is about don't be along with
Jay Coogan, is about me talking to people about my problems.
(02:56):
But first, before I hit my problems, I can beat
your problem. I want you to talk a little bit
about the history that made you write this book.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Okay, I will. This happened to me about fifty years ago.
I was a twenty two year old kid at college,
a state college, just having them. First of all, just
so the autist is I know you as a director? Yes,
as a director, right, okay? So so I directed a
script that you wrote for Ned and Stacy. Okay, And
the way I met you was through a speaker box.
(03:29):
That's how long ago. It was no video because it
was a table read and you were somewhere else, somewhere
more important than your table read, and there was just
your dis embodied voice.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Very important. Yeah, that sounds very important. It was I
thought you were like God, okay, and then.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
We read this great script and you know, you would
make comments and everybody was like leaning their head and
tilting their head into the box and yeah, and there
was no the sound was not great. What is an intimidation?
Oh my god, I should do that here. I could
just put a box on the table. It would just
feel more comfortable, right, So you and I went. I
(04:07):
don't think he'll remember this, but we went to the location.
He had written a script that involved a location. So
these two little Jews drove to this location and there
was this wonderful DP who was very experienced and older
than us, and he had set up that he had
done the setup, you know, where he wanted the lights
and stuff, and you know, I said, I wanted it
(04:30):
on the complete opposite side, and you were, you know,
okay with that, We're driving my little Carmen Gia. Do
you remember this at all?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I don't remember this at all. And I'm shocked they
even let us off the lot.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
We took extra Yeah they did, they did.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
They let us off the lot.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
What was it, Jay Collins screen?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, I guess I can't argue with the man on
the box.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
No, okay, he came in personally. I think he flew in,
you know, a lyric jet and landed and then.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
That sounds totally like me.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, that was you and then uh, you know, we
got back in my little car that was annoying to
any real man. It was a baby blue car. You
were completely comfortable in it, as was I. And I said,
look and look in the rear view mirror, because we
just fucked these guys whole day by making them switch
(05:16):
all the equipment. I go, you know, you and I
just ruined everybody's life. Yeah, and that's their fault for
making a choice without us. They chose that and we
it was completely.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
That's all right. So now I so I remember that,
all right, But but let's let's let's stay on track here.
So you're a director, but you're you went to jail
a kid, you went to college. I was having a party, school.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Party, School of the country, remember the Playboy?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Uh, sir, which school was this?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Chico? This was Aren't you gonna hold it up like
Johnny Carson to the book? I did this, I know.
But and then he'd say I read it last night
or something. I never believed him. So now you've just
but you admitted to me that you never you got
to a little bit.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Okay, But okay, so Chico State. Yeah, there's a number
one prison, number one party. As there is in Orville.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But so I was having the time in my life
and I had a girlfriend and was partying and like
we all did in the seventies, and then this this
guy came into this little bar that I substituted for
my girlfriend at the time and said, can I get
some speed? And you know, I'd never I had not
(06:32):
really done speed, but I said, like an idiot, oh,
I can get you coke. So he just, you know,
thought he hit the gold mine because he ended up being.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
A narc Okay, so, so you went into get speed,
but then you offered to sell this guy drugs. Right,
there's your mistake.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
It was my first not my first one either, Okay, yeah,
because I had done this before, all right, yeah with pot.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
So oh you had been busted by selling pot before.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not. I'm a slow learner, stupid, I'm not.
I'm really hoping you'll take the rest of this conversation
because I want to not show how dumb.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
All right, well already, I'm just you know how many
times I sold drugs to narcotics officers? Zero? Zero times?
Yeah you and zero times?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Well you you know you were smarter than I am.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, you know how many times I purchased cocaine from
someone a few zero times, really zero times. Yeah, I
don't know. You got it for free. I tried it
once for free. I'm not a good purchaser of of narcotics. Well,
and I'm not a big user either, But that's that's
the other thing.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I'm not either anymore. I only sold them to make
enough money to do them because I was too cheap
to buy them, right. And then you're kind of a
big shot because you know I'm insecure.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Right, I mean, kids, kids love the guy with the
free drugs.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, and once you stop, you don't have any friends,
you know, they're they just disappear. You're going, what happened
to all these people that used to go upstairs with
me and just talk about Middle East politics?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Right?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
And nobody wants to do that anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That may be a factor of your conversation about Middle East.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Politics is not so good. No, in the middle it
should be a little better. So anyway, we got arrested,
me and this girl friend of mine, and we went
to trial, a little court trial for something nowadays would
have been just of course laughed out of the system.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Sure, because they don't have they have so many people
locked up. They can't even afford to put degenerate criminals
like you in jail.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
No, back then, yeah, there was free space. Yeah, they
have plenty of space. And it was a quarter of
a gram.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
You know, to describe to those of us who were
used to English weights and measures. Yeah, a quarter of
a gram is how It's like the size of a die. Like,
what is it?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's about as much sugar you put on your cereal.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
The packet spoonful less, spoonful spoonful of it's very low.
Plus a spoonful of cocaine makes the medicine go down.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, well it didn't for me, but yeah, so then they, uh,
there was a huge dog and pony show and they they.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Who got involved? Your parents?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, my parents were there to support me. I had
to come home and tell them, you.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Know what happened.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I mean, you know that's a horrible time, right, I.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Mean who built you out?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well, we got out on something called our o R
was just our own recognissance. So yeah, they let you out,
so you're free.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well no, it's okay. I mean, because you know, we
weren't harmful to society. It says you well we weren't selling.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You're out in the bars offering drugs.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well, no, I couldn't afford it anymore to buy ourselves,
so they let us out. We were innocent, little well
not so innocent at that time. We were innocent, but
college kids that you know. When I looked out after
we got I said, you know, the world hasn't really
suffered I mean much that I mean, just if they
wipe their hands of this, we'd be okay. And but
(10:09):
there was this one guy, a villain that wanted me
to go to jail for five years.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
This villain worked for the government. Maybe he was a
district attorney. Was a no.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
The district attorney was kind of on our side, but
he was a probation officer and it was up to
him to recommend. And I believe he was anti Semitic
and didn't like my relationship with the girl and didn't
like my father was well off and he was successful
and dignified, and he didn't like that relationship and we
(10:44):
had money. You know, he didn't like me.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Period. You were being pursued for being for committing a
crime that most people would be sort of given a scolding.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And then walked away. By this slap on the wrist,
and we expected that. You know, we went to this trial,
had lawyers, and my dad had a lot of possible help.
He had a senator, his best friend from his Jewish
fraternity is a judge, was a judge, you know, different.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
He had a lot of very important people in his pockets,
like the Godfather. Yes, he could have helped, No wonder,
I'm with the other guy now, that piole.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Officers, right, yeah, well he you know, he had a
heart on and it's okay. I mean, you know, it
was a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
That was his job.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Long story short, that we ended up getting sent to
state prison. You know, imagine the little jew and so
she did too, she did to different state prison, right anyway,
So you know, state prison is kind of a mind blow,
you know. I mean in the first chapter, I was
(11:49):
doing my little job, which was running errands for one
of the policemen in the guards. And you know, you
had a little piece of paper that you that he
would write the note on what you had to do.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's how archaic it was.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
There was no telephones, there was no cell phones, there
was no you know, intercoms. So I was delivering this
note to somebody in some cell block, and they closed
the whole cell block.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It was two hundred.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Feet at least by fifty feet this gleaming, shining hallway,
and it was just me alone in there. And because
I wasn't really experience of what you're supposed to do
and where you're supposed to go, so I at the
all of a sudden there's a these doors burst open
(12:41):
at the end of the cell the block, and there's
like eight guards with shotguns, and.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You would walked into the wrong place.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I was stuck in the wrong place, and so they're going, halt,
and you know, did you halt? I was the only
guy that so I figured, you, halting is what I
should do, and I halted, and they marched towards me
and pointed all their guns at me, and uh. In
this little circle was this very little man that was
(13:15):
their prisoner being transported to another area. And I caught
a glimpse of him, and it's Charles Manson, and I
was like, well, that's.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Not something that happens every day. Sure, you know, he
immediately fell into his culture, is how powerful he was.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
You know, it was pretty it was pretty daunting, because
you know, you do feel this power, and you know,
he looked up at me and I'm not tall as
you know, and he.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Looked up at me and you know, yeah the Nazi
swastika and carved into his forehead. Yeah, and this like
people do.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, and like most of my crowd that I hung
out before that, and I I this was shortly after
you know, he had just been found. I mean, this
was seventy seven and his crimes were in about sixty nine,
so it was only a few years, you know, So
it was it was pretty eye opening.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So how long how long were you in This was
in there for about five months? What was the biggest
lesson you took from being imprisoned? That's interesting. I think
since you asked it, this could have been something to
put in the book, could have been sorry, you contacted
me well after the bucsis.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
So the most interesting thing I think is that there's
no rehabilitation going on. Yeah, you know, it's all fun
and games. You know, they're having a good time in there.
There's food, basketball, drugs, alcohol, sex. All their friends you know,
are in there, right and it's not misery and they
(15:20):
it's it's not misery, no for them, they but for
you well, I was in hell second, so there's misery
for me. But these other guys portrayed a there's peals
of laughter, you know when they would walk together and
be together, and it was kind of upsetting, you know.
(15:41):
And I asked a group once because all they talk
about is their crime and how to perfect it, right,
you know, And I said, you know, you guys, I mean,
is there any thought possibly you know, you got to
couch your words and be careful, you know, just maybe
just getting out and you know, going straight. Yeah, yeah,
And you know, as while they're trying to perfect their crime,
(16:05):
they're talking about killing the witnesses, sure, you know, And
I go, you know, why, why wouldn't we just let
it all go and move to another town or something,
And just you know.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I didn't believe. There's no reason for it. There's their
system is working perfectly for them, just the way it is.
And as you say, like many people say, jail is
a school for criminals to get better at being a criminal.
And you tempted it all, become a criminal. Did you
learn anything within it? And said, oh, well, you know what,
or I could become a famous director. But you know,
(16:37):
you didn't think.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
About that right then, I did. I wanted to be
a writer, but I wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
How did you know? How did you know then that
I wasn't good enough? Why did you think?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
No? I thought I was good enough then. But then
I got onto Cheers. You know, I snuck onto the lot.
So I used my criminal all the things that you
learned yes to not do. I snuck onto Paramount and
I went to the Cheers offices. And it was during
a hiatus which I didn't even know anything about. Do
you remember the Cheers? They were the Fraser upstairs from Frase. Yeah,
(17:08):
and nobody was there. A secretary, lonely secretary. And I
was like really, And so I gave her my script
and she called me back in a couple hours and
I was like, I'm in right and she said, yeah,
this is you know, not good, No, not even So
let me ask you this, Okay, So did you have
to This is my question because I'm always constantly able
(17:31):
to recreate myself to figure out who I am and
what i'm you come out of jail, do you feel different?
Do you feel like you have to recreate who you are.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Now that you're now you're a convict, but are you still,
like when you come out of jail, it's just a
back to who you were.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I think I felt I had to get my shit together.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Okay, Yeah, so it was a wake up call. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I knew that I had to not do what I
was doing before because it wasn't getting me anywhere. So
I wanted but I wanted.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
To get back. You and the girl get back together.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, I was just going to say I wanted to
get back with her, you know. And she went down
to San Diego, right, and I had had another girl.
If I was her dad, I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You got to stay away. Her dad didn't know the
whole anything. She avoided telling her father for five months
in prison. Yep, she was in there for about three Yeah,
she was in there for three She avoid in for
three months and just avoid telling your parents.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Well it was a different time, you know. It's crazy,
I know. And she would you know, her sister and
her live together in Chico, and god, I shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, I guess I can say that.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And the dad, the parents would call and she'd say, oh,
you just missed so and so she just went out
the door.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
She you know, she's at work three months.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, and the dad had six daughters, so I guess
he was like whatever hearing from one less And yes,
they avoid it now Jewish parents, we don't. We can't
get away with them.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
No, So three days is kind of like the limit.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, that's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So so the dad didn't know. And I did meet
him once at her wedding afterwards.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And and he was like hugs and kisses. You know.
So you wanted to get back to the girl. The
girl would not get back.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Together with She did not want to get back together wisely,
you know, we were not a good fit. I just
wanted to end it on my own terms. I didn't
want the County of Oraville to, you know, end this relationship.
I felt, you know, if it's going to end, it's
going to end on you know, naturally. So I went
(19:37):
down there after a year, and I made him a
bunch of money, and I enrolled in school and and
lived near her, and you know, we'd see each other
and you know, she give me a little comb here
and there, and then, uh, it just wasn't working out.
Plus they flunked out of San Diego State, So you know,
(19:59):
I mean, I wasn't wasn't a name.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
You're terrible. You're a terrible candidate our boyfriend. And I
guess why I'm asking is deeper question, which is, once
you decided I need to change my life, Yeah, then
you still flunk out of school? Like what that doesn't
sound like you were motivated.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
I'm not a good student. I just cannot learn the
traditional way. Like I had a friend. I was in
this class in San Diego. I don't know what it was,
and and he goes, look, dude, you know you're smart
because you're you're at least smarter than most of these people.
I mean San Diego State, for god's sakes, it's fine school.
(20:34):
It was int then. But so so he he he goes,
we have a test tomorrow. Yeah, he goes, So, here's
the subject. This is what he's going to ask us.
He told us what he's going to ask us, right,
and it's right here.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
It says the rocks formed in twenty and nineteen or whatever,
and that's all you got to do. And I go,
I don't get it. I mean, doesn't he want an
answer that's like creative or something like, you know, the
rocks formed by dinosaurs fighting over sure? You know?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So I just I couldn't say back, what there's some
kind of ADHD thing going?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, all right, yeah, I was looking out the windows
right when they're teaching you stuff. So that's so I
I high tailed it up to La where all the
people with ADHD pile their their their nervousness and their
distraction into entertainment. Yeah. So, and I wanted to be
a writer. Okay, you know, so I said, well, this
(21:35):
is where I got to go.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
All right, So so my my question about how you
how did you did? Did jail force you to recreate yourself?
My answer I'm getting is no, that you did not.
Jail is not the thing.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I'm a slow learner that made you recreate yourself. I
think what recreated me was working on chairs. Okay, you know,
I think that.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I found your passion. That's different. Yeah, you found something,
you were passionate about it, and then you said, Okay,
I'm going to throw myself into something I love. And
that's that's not like, oh my life has to change.
That is just oh fantastic. I've stepped into something a
wonderland and I'm going to I'm going to enjoy myself,
which makes total sense too.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Right, No, I'm not as deep. I can't go back
to the river.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
My first question, which was a great question, which is
well something I need to find somebody else who recreated.
Does it bother you at all that most people who
are under thirty don't know what Cheers is at all?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It's just such a sign of the times, you know,
I mean, you just sometimes you know, you'll say, somebody
will say what do.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
You do or what you know?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
You know, I just work on sitcoms and direct what
shows and.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Then lid list and you see the blank look in
their eyes when they say these are award winning. Cheers
was considered one of the best shows ever to be
on TV. It's a top ten forever show.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I never saw No No, My dad, my grandfather
used to watch that. I think, yeah, I know, it's
it's but that's the sign.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Of the times. I know that that's the world awful.
It's it's not awful. Well, it's just true. It's just
like like we're we didn't know, you know, Fibber McGee
and Molly or whatever else. There was the radio shows.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
That no, no, we didn't and you know, but life
began at the Beatles, so you know, they because I
remember my grandfather was like, we'll never last, you know,
like okay, well so yeah, no, it was. It is
kind of just concerned. And it's great when they do
know it or something. But I don't know if cheers
aged as as greatly as some of the others. I
(23:28):
don't know, do you all right?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I think it's still pretty damn good. And I think
it's a it's a forever show. I think it's great. Yeah,
I think it's great. So so that's cool. But a
lot of people, including myself, who've been writing for forty
five fifty years, right, I'm intimidated to write something that's
like this a memoir, And so I'm wondering, did you
have to go through anything to figure out, Okay, this
(23:52):
is going to be worth it. Here are the parameters
of the story. This is the amount of life I
wanted to tell. What how did you get through it?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I just I think I told it more like a
newspaper reporting. You know, it's basically just this happened, uh,
you know, in this day, and these things occurred to me.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I mean, this not occurred to me. These things happened
to me, happened to us.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And uh, you know, I tried to incorporate the times
of the seventies, the music and the fashion and the.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Politics. Just Spireau Agnew is all over your book, which
is weird. He just pops up as a character in
the jail. You don't believe that that he was a cellmator.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah he was. He was in there. Spirou was the
only unelected No, Gerald Ford is the only unelected. Never,
nobody ever voted for him, and he became president. Yeah,
nobody ever cast a vote for him. So I just
kind of just spewed out what happened. I don't I
(24:58):
don't know if I put a lot of my emotions
in there. I mean i'd say, I, you know, I
felt horrible and guilty, and you know, it was a
ridiculous situation. But I didn't save anybody.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
No, I mean, that's the thing about it is this,
You're in jail because of your own mistakes. Yes, you're
you're trying to get through it with your own you know,
will will while Skyle Gyle and wits.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Which which you've witnessed are very limited.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
The fact that you're alive is amazing. But it's like,
you know, that's that's the whole book, Okay, then you
come out of it. You know, I think the wiser
for having had that experience. Although it didn't it wasn't transformative.
It sounds like I No.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I think I was lucky that nothing in my life
had really happened, so I didn't lose out on kids, wife, career, right, fortune, fame, anything.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It happened at a period I was twenty two and
completely under developed, so nothing really was affected. I was
lucky enough to have the support of my family and
to fall back on, which a lot of these people don't, right.
I mean, that's why they're back in jail, right, you
know they don't get out and write a lot of
people sometimes it's their best option.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, it honestly is.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You know, they're not going to trade or Vix for
dinner for a celebratory meal.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Credit Vix for you kids was a restaurant that people
used to go to and they had Polynesian food for
some reason, and lots of.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Booze for a celebratory meal.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Celebratory meal. Okay, well, now let's flip the switch the script,
as I say, and go to the moment of joy.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yes, that's a good one. A moment of joy. What
is something that brings you joy. And I'm going to
exclude your children, exclude your wife. Anything can be anything
other than those things.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
When I get into bed and I'm not going to
watch a game or something, or my wife's with me,
are going to watch something, and the dogs are on
top of me, and the house is like all cool, right,
and I got a beautiful home with lots of landscaping.
You know, that's that's really a great moment.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
So that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I mean, I think I think people my dogs, you know,
I mean, dogs make you happy, Dogs make that's good. Yeah,
I mean I love happy.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, I love my dogs.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
We came back from Tahoe a day early because the
guy that, yeah, the guy that was watching him show
a picture of the dogs upside down, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Pause, that's like, it's love. They're they're wandering, big furry
love love creature saying, and it's great to feel their connection.
And it may just be a trick of evolution that's
how they get fed, but it's a good trick. It's
an actually good trick.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
No, it's it's we should all have something like that,
all right.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
So Rick, Yes, this is the book you wrote. Thank you, Rick,
Please buy it. Yeah, and uh and and and tell me, uh,
you know your viewers at home telling me what you
get out of it. Where is the change, where's the
the metamorphosis of this guy to this guy? So it's
very it's it's great.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Can I hold it up next to my face? It's
just camera gonna work. Sure, it's not working. It's not
that the light doesn't really, so I thought I was
not on the whole time. I was on the whole time.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Cameras, all the cameras record how's the how's the face?
Pretty good? Really? Pretty?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Really? Okay, now it's lit the camera. It's the only
time for you. No, that's the only time. I think
this is the only close up.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
But I got that. Yeah, that'd be a great editing system.
But what a hot dude. Well, thank you for being here.
I really appreciate it, and thank you for listening to
us go on and on. I will say that you
should spend some time with somebody like Rick. It was
a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. So you
go out and have some fun with somebody, don't be alone,
and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Don't
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