September 11, 2025 • 29 mins
Writer Rob Kutner talks about being anti-anti-semitic, “The God Gang” cartoon, beards, and a lot of other “Jew talk.”
Bio:Rob Kutner is an Emmy-winning writer for TV (The Daily Show, CONAN, Teen Titans Go!) and books (Apocalypse How, Snot Goblins & Other Tasteless Tales, Look Out for the Little Guy), and the head writer of the independent kids’ animated series God’s Gang. For more info, and to “join the gang,” go to www.godsgang.com. For more Rob info, go to www.robkutner.com. For a good time, call “SKIFFY" at 555-6969
Bio:Rob Kutner is an Emmy-winning writer for TV (The Daily Show, CONAN, Teen Titans Go!) and books (Apocalypse How, Snot Goblins & Other Tasteless Tales, Look Out for the Little Guy), and the head writer of the independent kids’ animated series God’s Gang. For more info, and to “join the gang,” go to www.godsgang.com. For more Rob info, go to www.robkutner.com. For a good time, call “SKIFFY" at 555-6969
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut Media. I am Ron Cutner and don't be
Alone with Ja Cogan, but if you are geneticist, do
be a clone with him.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Don't bonus episode.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey there, Cogan Nation, and welcome to Don't Be Alone
with Ja Cogan. Thanks for being here. As always, I
encourage you to email me at dbawjk at gmail dot
com to send me your comments, your suggestions, and especially
your questions for my guests. This week, our guest is
Rob Cutner, who was a great comedy writer who's written
many pilots and movies and comic books and books. He
(00:50):
wrote a really funny book about the Apocalypse and how
to enjoy it, so you should consider getting that. But anyway,
Rob will be here discussing what it means to be
a Jewish writer in Hollywood. I know they're all Jewish, No,
they're not all Jewish, and it's hard to figure out
how much of your Jewishness you want to put out there,
(01:11):
because Jewish Hollywood writers have made a living by not
talking about Jewish things and just talking about, you know,
secular American things and putting themselves in other people's positions,
and that's how we present. But lately people have wanted
writers to write their life experience, and if that's the case,
then then we should put out more of our Jewish culture.
(01:34):
But lately Jewish culture hasn't been so exciting to people.
It's been controversial and difficult, and there's been more anti
Semitism now than there has been many many years. So
it's worrisome. So what do you do creatively? What do
you do culturally? And just what do you do? We'll
be talking about that with our guest Rob Cutner right
after this. Rob Kuttner, I might officially welcome you to
(02:02):
don't be alone with Jake Cogan. You and I have
known each other for many years.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Someone say too many?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
You've said too many over the years, but it's okay,
so it's weird that you say it to me.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So it's very temporary standing order said too many.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Specifically, we first introduced to the Stomp. Is that possible? Yes?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, you you invited us to the Stump, I think,
which that's right. Has reaped many dividends. Yep, friends, and.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
That and we've u and then your wife Cheryl is
a is also a writer. Yes, and uh and more
talented would.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You say than you?
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Oh? Oh, yes, I would.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yes, I mean not just because you have to because
your husband.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Right, right, like, oh yeah, for sure, Yeah, multiple levels.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
And I think when I've first met you, you were
working on Dennis Miller or con Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I was working Dennis Miller, and I think I think
Feldo was the is the introduction.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Okay, that's how we mat We were both on that.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
The reason anyone comes on don't be alone with Jake
Cogan is because I usually I guess I have a problem,
and they're the expert who can help me with this problem.
In this particular case, my problem is I'm Jewish.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And so I to help you with that.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
And I'm a writer, and so I'm always the last
five to ten years, they've always been the executives too,
always ask us, write your experience, right, would you know?
Write your own culture?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Your thing? And my culture is sort of a you know,
a conservative slash reform jew life. And I don't know
how universal it is. I mean, any American life is
universal because it's the specifics. The more specific you dive
(03:44):
into something, the more real it seems, and the more
everybody else in their own culture can see, Oh, I
can see how this person's culture is affecting them like
my culture affects me. So I'm good with that. But
you know, there's a fair amount of anti Semitism out
in this world.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Say unfair, but yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
True, an unfair amount of anti Semitism. And I'm not
sure that we're still we're not considered uh, diversity. Jews
aren't considered diversity. We're considered just white people who are
somehow in a cabal to control all of humanity.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
And it was like, I think we both both be
further in our careers if well.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
You know, if I had listened, if I'd gotten further
in the Jewish community and further in the Masons both,
I think I'd be running. I'd be like, you know,
Greg Burlanty or something, just like I have a lot
of shows, a lot of things coming to me and
keep going.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
You wouldn't have podcast timeless.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
That's true, although that's the new that's the new secret
is podcasting. My road to success begins with my podcast.
I recently got many many new subscribers to this podcast.
Do you know how I asked them to subscrib I
went on for my birthday, I asked people to subscribe.
You manifested, I just got a bunch of subscribes. So please,
(05:06):
I'm asking you, anyone listening right now, go to YouTube
and subscribe to Jay Cogan. Don't be a little with
Jake cogin. What does it cost you? Nothing? Nothing? And
what does it get me? Nothing so far? But it
could get me something valid illusion. No, apparently there's a number.
Producer Ryan says, there's a number that that matters. Yeah,
so I want to get to that number. I'm not
(05:28):
at that number yet.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Is it six six six?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It's not, it's don't know. This is not that so anyway,
So you just produced a cartoon that I saw called
God's Gang, And in God's Gang there are four religions represented,
it seems, uh, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Right right, so far, okay?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
What made you sort of go down the road of
of of taking religion as a concept and sort of
translating into a cartoon for I imagine for adults and children.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, well it wasn't my idea. It was it was
something that someone came to me.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
With a So, so I'm talking the wrong guy.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah, yeah, we can. We can patch him in if
you want.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It was actually an Israeli dude, interestingly enough, who used
to be at Disney marketing exact a long time ago,
and he always thought it would be cool to do uh,
sort of a Power Rangers, but where their action team
and all of them are from different faiths, they work together.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
That's that's what this show is also.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
But you know Disney, for some reason, Disney didn't want
to touch anything that is about religion or you know,
world cultures or hasn't been made by Disney already previously.
The story version is basically is that because religion is
such a devisive topic, they thought, if we walk in
the front door and Netflix and these other places, forget
the fact they don't know what they're making right now anyway,
they're gonna say religion, forget it. That's that's controversial, they said.
(06:56):
He said, let's grow and let's put it online. Let's
make the pilot of this for free. Put it online
and see if it grows an online audience, and if
it shows that lots of people are excited and signing
up for it, then we can come back to the
buyers in the studios and say, look, there's there's organic
interest in and that's actually that's actually working, I think fantastic.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
So if our audience wanted to see God's Gang, oh
they can't. They can't you sets online.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
They have to subscribe to your podcast first, okay.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Subscribe to Don't Below with Jake Cogan, and.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Then theoretically they would but theoretically they would go to
Godsgang dot com. You can watch the pilot and the
trailer and all that and and you know, just my plug,
you know, just to get the plug out of the way.
Is that if you if you I sound like one
of my son's YouTube YouTubers, but if you smash that
like button, if you, if you like and subscribe, then
just literally those numbers, like we've gotten a million YouTube
followers right now, so we're gonna go into.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
You have a million followers. I have two hundred. Right,
see what's going on?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I think you should get on join God's Gang. Jab
Oh my gosh, join the gang.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I have two hundred followers, and he's got a million
for his crazy religious show, crazy religious cartoon. Right, I
well good? Right of the million? Did you say how
many a million? I have a million? How many do
you think are insane evangelical Christians?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well that's interesting because like they have had a negative
reaction when they well, first of all, the crazy thing,
the craziest thing is that you know, you know what
YouTube comments are like, and never read the comments, right,
They've been unfailing, like almost unfailing the positive, which is
like shocking, like people are.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Like, this seems like a good idea.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And then you've got you've got sort of the sort
of snark crowd who's like yikes, you know, just like
just like the way that you know, you know, millennials
and gen Z sort of react to anything. And then
you've got like but interestingly, like a bunch of you know,
evangelic We were sort of expecting more blowback from I
don't know, maybe Islam, maybe Hindu, I don't know, maybe
some Jews, but it's been it's been a bunch of
(08:45):
evangelical Christians who don't like the idea of all of
them being sort of equated, right, you know, like.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
There's one religion and then we have some other religions.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Which is interesting because our Christian character is African American
and is inspired by a Baptist minister who one of
our advisors. We have religious advisers from all the faiths,
and and he is this and so like a lot
of actually African American Christians have gone on line and
say they really like it because they you know, there's
a little bit of representation and that's the kind of
Christianity they.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Grew up with this, you know, spread the love and
that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Right. So, but so that each one of the characters
has its own superpower, right, well, the Christian what is this?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
So he he has the he has the power of
cheek block, which means he can turn the other cheek
and actually blow and actually defend against attacks, can ricochet effect.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yes, okay, and then and then the uh, the the
islam Islamic character is a great storyteller, can mesmerize people.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
With this story. It's that comes from the sort of
Arabian nights or right Islamic.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
The Hindu character is kind of like Aquaman. She she
could talk to the animals and nature.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So yeah, so we we polled sort of all the
faith leaders and said, what are the most important values
to you in the Hindu advisor, which I knew the
least about, said like connection in.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Nature and the jew is a forensic account. Yes, why they.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Can he can give you two sets of books, right, this.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
There's a funny bit about that, which is that he
has the sort of telemutic ability to kind of like
size up a situation, kind of like terminator view, like
you could look.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
It seems like all these other people are doing the
things his was super intellectual, right, Well, I mean it
has like a when you see it, like it has
like a.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Visual kind of like it looks like the way the
terminator looks at things, like it's like it grids out everything,
like here's the enemy, here's the obstacle.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Beautiful mind right, it's beautiful mind like.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
But but the thing is, we called it the pun
was we called it the Anna laser like laser. But
this is before Marjorie Taylor Green. So one of the
mani comments we got on this was like.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Oh, Jews and lasers. I see what you're doing there,
not knowing that actually Jews has literally come up with this.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Sure taking back deeper into your religion. Now you you
characterize yourself in as an observant Jew, What does that
mean to you?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
It doesn't mean observant in the sense of noticing things
around maybe No, no, if you ask my wife, no.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I mean religiously like how how closely do you follow.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Some not orthodox, right, But I am someone who sort
of uh, you know, observe Shabbat uh in the sense
that we have Shabbat dinner, uh, don't work on Shabbat,
don't do anything creative, don't buy things, but you know,
like we use electronics at home, that sort of thing
which anthox person when I do. We do drive on occasion, uh,
(11:16):
that sort of thing again in our thus but like
we sort of try to sort of keep it as
a different spiritual day.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Same thing with kosher.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
We don't eat uh, non kosher meat or shellfish, don't
eat meat milk, but would eat in a restaurant if
we sort of satisfied that that the when I say we,
you know, it's sort of I'm probably the most religious
in my.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Family, right. I'm also not a very religious Jew. I'm not.
I'm not. I'm culturally Jewish, but I don't, like, I
don't believe in many of the tenants of I've got,
which pisses my some of the people off of my
tourist study group, right, like, well, if you don't believe
in God, what are you doing here?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
It's like, well, that's I'm a very typical Jewish position.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Right, So, but but and it's not it's not a
religious position. It's more of a uh it's it's it's
just more of a heritage of what I have. I
also just like I like that culture. I grew up
in that culture. I'm comfortable in that culture. And I
like many of the traditions of my culture. And that's fine.
I don't like all the sad music, right right, and
(12:14):
have a major key please and then and then and
then not great food, yeah, I really not food to
be fair, Well, that's my culture.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, but okay, but you could go further rob with
Jewish food.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, I can get the Spanish versions of stuff that's good. Yeah,
and it'd be great, but we don't.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
We don't.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I small soup's great a plus right small no notes, yeah,
no notes. But I mean it's like there's lots of
other things that is not Sometimes you want some salt exactly,
kosher meat not always the.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Best, right, not always right?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And and flavors and right.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I mean that's just you know, it's Eastern European stuff. Yea,
So most people don't necessarily, Hey, you guys going to
check out the Eastern European please, It's true that's the
Eastern guys, tire Slavic tonight, what's gonna be?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
It's true, it's it's it's terrible.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I mean Croatian home.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
My ancestors in the Ukraine. You know, IM pretty sure
they were eating dirt.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah right, Like what else can we make with potatoes, beats, roots, things.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
That they can scrape out of the ground? So how
I guess the question I have is like, how to
incorporate your Judaism into your work? And how does it?
How much is affected? How much does it not affected?
Of course our histories and who we affect everything we do.
It's where mine. But specifically, did it not that we
(13:41):
want to indoctrinate. I don't want to indoctrinate people into Judaism,
that's not We don't even proselytize. We don't care. People aren't.
Weren't asking people to sign up to be Jews, and
if we were, that'd be a bad business right now.
But uh, but you know I've written things. I've written
a Fraser episode where Fraser had to pretend to be Jewish,
and and I've written a Simpsons episode that they got
(14:03):
involved with the Talmud.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Did you pitch those or were those assigned to you
as the one jew But.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
No, I was about those rooms.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I pitched the I pitched the Simpsons episode the basically
the jazz singer Crusty the clown as the jazz singer. Yeah,
that was something that me and Wally and I pitched
and campaign for and got uh. And the Christmas episode
where everybody had to pretend to be Jewish was not
my idea, but it was something that I worked on
(14:33):
in the room with a lot of other people. And
I wasn't the only Jewet Fraser, but I was the loudest.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Jewet Fraser, the goyistest show ever probably, yes.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
It was a very goy room, but that was you know,
a lot of the great the greatest jew jokes in
that script came from non Jews.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I worked in late nights, so there wasn't like as
many call for like stories like you know in scripted,
like you worked in an episodic, right, you want to
draw on stories that maybe that come from your life
and it's more about like bits and gags and jokes
and just like what happened with you is a lot
of the funny things that Jewish things that have come
on the shows I worked on have been pitched and
something's written by non Jews, and I was sort of
(15:10):
called in just to sort of revet them right at
the end.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
But I wouldn't have thought to pitch them.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Like, but of course everyone and my family and friends
and my family's friends would ask me, did you do that?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Did you do that?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
We've developed shows before together. There's a really great cartoon
that we developed. I still want to I'm still I'm
still pitching out there, the sort of noir mystery cartoon.
And I don't think any of the characters in there
are Jewish, right, And it's and it wouldn't occur to me.
You're like, ah, that's another that's a that's a great
(16:00):
There are characters who are black, and there are characters
who are you know, many other things, but none who
seem to be Jewish. And I think, well, is that
something I'm is that something we're missing? Is that something
that we should be leaning into more, especially now, even
now that it's a big controversial subject, even now that
you know people are saying, you know, anti Semitism is
(16:24):
on the rise, and we're both concerned about it. We've
been a member of like I've seen you at places
where we're trying to sort of figure out how we
can combat it anti Semitism. It's like, but is it
is that by putting more Jewish characters front and center
in media helpful or maybe that's just proof to them
that well, the Jewish control the media.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
That's the other thing too, is like it's like, I
feel like there's been so many things, especially in recent years,
like I don't know that I'm the one who needs
to bring it forward.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And maybe it is just sort.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Of like like like being in a comedy room and saying, hey, guys,
I'm Jewish and it's like.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, so were six of us?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Right?
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Doesn't like that interesting as a differentiator.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
What do you think the most interesting Jewish Judaism centered
or featured show has been.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
I'm actually kind of a fan of Stiesel. Have you
seen that?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yes? Yeah, but that it's an Israeli show.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
It is Israeli.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
But what's interesting about that shows too, is that even
though it's like it's obviously a very traditional Jewish.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
First we should describe it. It's basically a soap opera, yeah,
that takes place in Israel, and it features Orthodox Jews
for the most part. Orthodox Jews living in an orthodox
Jewish life, right, and that part of it is almost
beside the point it's about fathers.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And so that's so interesting about it is it's that
it's almost not very Jewish in terms of it's like structure,
like you know, like there's rules and there's things that
are just implasted in the community. But it's almost like
almost like Larry David Blake, here's the thing you don't do,
you know, just things they're supposed to be obvious, but
you never see him like build a sukka or like
blow a show far, or like refrain from bacon, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Right, and by blowing a show far for those of
you don't know, it's a horn that people blow at
a holiday time, not something dirty.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm just look at Jaye introducing more Jewish content hitting
that again.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Steel, which has great show. The only thing the beard's
kind of bug me. Everybody's beers. I think food is
in their beard. Like it always seems dirty.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Right, everything seems dirty part of you.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, honestly a little bit of it when I watched,
So I think they got to clean up that house.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
And what's going on with that, jay I don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I'm very concerned about you know, TV and Frasier.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
The room looked clean, right, right, I want no beard,
no beards allot.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
And even on in the Sopranos.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I can't even hand the pictures of Kelsey Grammer with
the beard nowadays.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So it's upsetting, but so okay, so steel, But then
what is there been an American show or show from.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I guess maybe the closest has been a crazy ex
girlfriend where where Rachel Bloom is sort of like leaned
into Jewish identity and there's you know, every now and
then has done some stuff about that, like the jab rap,
the sort of infamous and things like that, where I
think it's just become a little bit part of the texture,
maybe in a more like typical way. And maybe that's
(19:06):
also making me think like, okay, well this doesn't need
to be you know, if I'm if I was Native
American or you know, disabled, which is you know, two
sort of communities I pay attention to, I would be
saying like, yes, we need more different kinds of representation
of us. And I think that's starting to happen with
Native things. There's a lot really kind of renaissance for that.
But you know, I think that it sort of reached
(19:27):
a healthy level.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I guess here's the thing. I think that we are
under the or I have been under the misapprehension all
these years that Jews were just part of American culture
and that we just flow right in and we're funny
story exactly. Yeah, and we're accepted as like a silly anomaly.
(19:48):
But I feel like that's not necessarily true anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I feel like that there's makes me feel bad for
our kids because it's like I feel like we got
this sort of gold is golden age.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, when we're living a lie, and that was fine,
it was good. But now it's the most recent the troubles,
the troubles in the Middle East have let people sort
of let their anti Semitism flag fly no hidden in
or not so hidden in a cloak of anti war.
(20:19):
So like, like I get, you can be anti war
and not be anti Semitic. That is absolutely one hundred percentury.
You can be anti Israel or anti the way Israel
is conducting the war and not be anti Semitic. You know,
it's just like, hey, I don't, I don't I am
anti you know, cluster bombs falling in places where there
(20:41):
are cities and schools and kids. I know, Yes, that's
their trick. They're hiding soldiers in the middle of hospitals
and schools. And I would say, well, okay, that's a
good that's a good place to hide. And those guys
get to hide there unless we have like a special
team of Navy seals or something going in under to
(21:03):
make sure that we don't kill the people in the
hospital and people in the schools. Like you know, it's
not a win for Israel to kill the soldiers in
the school. If they kill everybody else in the school,
it's not a win. So I would say, yes, protest
against that, let's stop that. But I'm not protesting against
(21:24):
Jews existing. So here we are. But I worry about
our kids, and I worry about how Judaism is perceived.
And I worry that if you make a character jew,
make a character Jewish, what it says to the non
Jewish world about that character just from the get go.
Do they hate this character? I like this character? Is
(21:46):
it a problem? Is it not a problem? So I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I mean it's interesting because I think sometimes like it
seems like the test of when I think a marginal
group has achieved full representation is when they can be
presented as a villain right confidently. As a villain, people
can just say, oh, that's a fictional version of that's
one flavor of this kind of person. And I feel
like now if you put a Jewish villain, you would
get memed and taken sincerely as a you know what
(22:08):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
So you think that's a moment of acceptance.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I think it's a retreat in a way.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I feel like a few years ago, you could have
like really villainous, right, you know, villains, you know, like
Larry Damon, like villain's Jewish characters who are just really like,
you know, selfish and all that stuff. And I think
nowadays I would be reluctant to put that forward because
I feel like the pr is so bad already, And yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I agree, And then what should we do about that?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Like the aggression is almost like you have to go
backwards and like create more sort of saintly Jewish characters,
positive positive ones, which is sort of I feel like,
not progress exactly, but so we.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Should create a show about Jewish characters that go around
the city, yes, helping people or you know, bestowing magic
powers upon people. Or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yes, bestowing space leaders upon people.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Space leaders are not helpful. So what should I do?
Give me help me? What should I do? Should I should? I?
Should we? Because we're we work together on occasion? Should
we create shows that have nothing to do with Judaism
but just infuse it with our own cultural biases and
wisdom and thoughts and and give characters.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I would I would do one of two things. I mean,
I think there's a lot of interesting corners of Judaism
that could work, Like, for example, like a mixed scenario,
like you know, you know, like that you just put
your finger on it, like a Jew and a Black
were married like that. To me, that's an interesting spicy
like its compromise because you can sort of have the
best of both worlds and you can sort of explore that,
you know, what happened in history, Like to me, that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Or like I kind of lean, is that even legal?
What state?
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Exactly, it's like double illegal, but it's the double negative
so that it is illegal again. Or then there's also
like really a lot of interesting parts of like Jewish
occult and like fantasy, like you know, the gold Woman
has sort of been explored. But there's a lot of
things that I kind of I'm in a more fantastical
bent as you know, So to me, I would like
maybe start with one of those start with one of
those areas, I think. But I don't know, if you know,
(24:04):
it's like what you describe as your Jewish experience, you know,
it might just be that it's a little bit sort
of it might be a little bit more generic still
to like the suburban you.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Know, yeah, I mean class experience.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That is not that it's not that different because you
weren't from an immigrant family.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
That's right. I don't have my thount. I think my
suburban middle class life is not shockingly different from most
suburban middle class life.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
My wife has told me that I should.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
My best friend was was black at this high school
that I went to, the school I went to, this
Christian school. And I'm not just saying that so I
can make a black joke.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
But the Westminster schools, yes.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Wow, okay, yeah, okay, are you going to say my name?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
It's fine?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Okay, okay, j Cogan, p I here. No.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
But so my wife has said, like that would make
a great show. Is like the jew and the Black,
you know, uh, going, going, And it was also a
very conserveive, conservative, preppy like stuffy prep school, you know,
coming up together in this and we also we were
both the liberal in the school was the people were
not predominantly so US like Us against the World will
be an interesting show as well.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Yeah, I mean I've been I've been reluctant for some
of the same reasons.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, well, maybe it should be uh more forward thinking,
I think maybe braver. I mean, listen, it's a it's
a shitty environment to pitch anything anyway, so why not
pitch something that's uh, that's a little bit more challenging, right, right, right,
all right, well, Rob, you have helped me, as most
guests here, you really have any hours ubject now, But
(25:27):
I mean, I'm glad we discussed it.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I think the short answer is, like, I think it's
Judaism interesting where it intersects with other things.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
That's a creative springboard that I think would be interesting
to Hollywood and us and maybe by itself it doesn't
have the interest outside of our community at.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Least right now.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
So okay, so now we have the moment of joy.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Oh okay, a moment of.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Joy this is the most middle aged dad answer you
can think of.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
But kids, Oh, that's that would be good.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Now, you can't say your.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Kids now, I can't say excluding that fighting with my
teenage daughter. No.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I started playing the bass about two years ago, and
I'm not very good, but I'm good enough to like
learn some songs I know, and so like, whenever I
sit down, like there's a period of when like, oh
my god, I'm never going to get this right, and
then it cracks.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I cracked the song up.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
At some point I'm able to kind of get through it,
and I'm like, when I can do that and play
with the song. It sounds so basic, but it feels
to me like I've tapped into something that I've always
enjoyed passively and now I can sort of be part
of it.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
What's your favorite song to play right now?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Well, I'm actually learning been learning Barracuda Art, which is
really hard on the bass, actually really fast. So I've
been learning at seventy five percent speed and I just
started doing it at full speed yesterday, which almost killed my fingers.
But congratulations, it's been a challenge for that.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And can you jam? Are you good enough to jam
with people?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
I'm not at that point yet.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's my next step because that's the whole level of
music theory, musicality, and I didn't really have that kind
of training, right, you know with base they put the
notes out in a certain way where you can just
follow the numbers and tell you where your fingers should.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Like that. I want to get into the jamming stuff,
but it's a whole different level.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Yeah. I mean once you sort of figure out chords.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Yeah, then you're just like your music relationships.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I mean that can when you're jamming, people will
call out right some times like this is this c
F energy.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
So you know the whole scale? Yeah, stuff, that's that's
the dream.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
But you'll get there. You'll get there.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Barracuda is interesting. Was that song meaningful to you? Did? What?
Why'd you pick that?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I just any kind of like predatory sea life to
me as a as a musical inspiration.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
No, I just honestly, like, here's the thing I drive around.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I hear the songs now, I listen to the bass
parts actively and if I and it has has a
very cool, like in a creative bass part, like somebody's there.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Ticket to ride? Why why didn't you practicing take.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I did play that with with someone earlier. A lot
of bass parts are just like, honestly, like a bunch
of eight notes and then it changes notes, and then
another bunch of eth notes and it changes back to
the first ones and then the third one. So it's
it's rhythmic and it's fun. But then it's like Bary
could have like does a lot of more interesting things
with rhythm.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
So yeah, I mean I want you back, did you
do I want you back?
Speaker 4 (28:07):
No, that's a good fun it's a great bass song. Yeah,
it's like good.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
So some songs are just screamed to me.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Play the bass right, and another ones that are like
way too hard, like all the progressive rock ones that
are just like baroke bass parts.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
With you know, no, those are for masters.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
You gotta that middle, that middle middle of the world.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, Junior, any sort of challenging, but not nineteen sixties
rock and roll song. Anybody should be able to play
because those people play the bass on those songs weren't
good either, right, so you should be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
They were they were there drafted to play the bass
from off the street right for the session.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Right. Well, Phil, thank you for being here Rob. Yeah,
it's great to see you. Thank you for explaining your
stance on all things.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I think we got a little done here today.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
We did. We got a little done here. It's just
like the bass practice, right, it's got a little bit
of it.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
But we got a few notes.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
And thank you my audience for being here. Do none
million of you? They don't.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I don't have the money. Again he is the son
of a bitch. Well, now it begins. The Cuttner bump
isn't effect.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
So I expect a million viewers soon. But until then,
thank you for watching and being part of the show.
And the whole point of the show is don't be alone.
So you don't be alone. Go talk to somebody, make
a phone call, make a connection with somebody, and hopefully
I will connect with you someday soon. I'll talk to
you later. By bye. Don't be
Straw Hut Media. I am Ron Cutner and don't be
Alone with Ja Cogan, but if you are geneticist, do
be a clone with him.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Don't bonus episode.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey there, Cogan Nation, and welcome to Don't Be Alone
with Ja Cogan. Thanks for being here. As always, I
encourage you to email me at dbawjk at gmail dot
com to send me your comments, your suggestions, and especially
your questions for my guests. This week, our guest is
Rob Cutner, who was a great comedy writer who's written
many pilots and movies and comic books and books. He
(00:50):
wrote a really funny book about the Apocalypse and how
to enjoy it, so you should consider getting that. But anyway,
Rob will be here discussing what it means to be
a Jewish writer in Hollywood. I know they're all Jewish, No,
they're not all Jewish, and it's hard to figure out
how much of your Jewishness you want to put out there,
(01:11):
because Jewish Hollywood writers have made a living by not
talking about Jewish things and just talking about, you know,
secular American things and putting themselves in other people's positions,
and that's how we present. But lately people have wanted
writers to write their life experience, and if that's the case,
then then we should put out more of our Jewish culture.
(01:34):
But lately Jewish culture hasn't been so exciting to people.
It's been controversial and difficult, and there's been more anti
Semitism now than there has been many many years. So
it's worrisome. So what do you do creatively? What do
you do culturally? And just what do you do? We'll
be talking about that with our guest Rob Cutner right
after this. Rob Kuttner, I might officially welcome you to
(02:02):
don't be alone with Jake Cogan. You and I have
known each other for many years.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Someone say too many?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
You've said too many over the years, but it's okay,
so it's weird that you say it to me.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So it's very temporary standing order said too many.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Specifically, we first introduced to the Stomp. Is that possible? Yes?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, you you invited us to the Stump, I think,
which that's right. Has reaped many dividends. Yep, friends, and.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
That and we've u and then your wife Cheryl is
a is also a writer. Yes, and uh and more
talented would.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You say than you?
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Oh? Oh, yes, I would.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yes, I mean not just because you have to because
your husband.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Right, right, like, oh yeah, for sure, Yeah, multiple levels.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
And I think when I've first met you, you were
working on Dennis Miller or con Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I was working Dennis Miller, and I think I think
Feldo was the is the introduction.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Okay, that's how we mat We were both on that.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
The reason anyone comes on don't be alone with Jake
Cogan is because I usually I guess I have a problem,
and they're the expert who can help me with this problem.
In this particular case, my problem is I'm Jewish.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And so I to help you with that.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
And I'm a writer, and so I'm always the last
five to ten years, they've always been the executives too,
always ask us, write your experience, right, would you know?
Write your own culture?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Your thing? And my culture is sort of a you know,
a conservative slash reform jew life. And I don't know
how universal it is. I mean, any American life is
universal because it's the specifics. The more specific you dive
(03:44):
into something, the more real it seems, and the more
everybody else in their own culture can see, Oh, I
can see how this person's culture is affecting them like
my culture affects me. So I'm good with that. But
you know, there's a fair amount of anti Semitism out
in this world.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Say unfair, but yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
True, an unfair amount of anti Semitism. And I'm not
sure that we're still we're not considered uh, diversity. Jews
aren't considered diversity. We're considered just white people who are
somehow in a cabal to control all of humanity.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
And it was like, I think we both both be
further in our careers if well.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
You know, if I had listened, if I'd gotten further
in the Jewish community and further in the Masons both,
I think I'd be running. I'd be like, you know,
Greg Burlanty or something, just like I have a lot
of shows, a lot of things coming to me and
keep going.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
You wouldn't have podcast timeless.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
That's true, although that's the new that's the new secret
is podcasting. My road to success begins with my podcast.
I recently got many many new subscribers to this podcast.
Do you know how I asked them to subscrib I
went on for my birthday, I asked people to subscribe.
You manifested, I just got a bunch of subscribes. So please,
(05:06):
I'm asking you, anyone listening right now, go to YouTube
and subscribe to Jay Cogan. Don't be a little with
Jake cogin. What does it cost you? Nothing? Nothing? And
what does it get me? Nothing so far? But it
could get me something valid illusion. No, apparently there's a number.
Producer Ryan says, there's a number that that matters. Yeah,
so I want to get to that number. I'm not
(05:28):
at that number yet.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Is it six six six?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It's not, it's don't know. This is not that so anyway,
So you just produced a cartoon that I saw called
God's Gang, And in God's Gang there are four religions represented,
it seems, uh, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Right right, so far, okay?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
What made you sort of go down the road of
of of taking religion as a concept and sort of
translating into a cartoon for I imagine for adults and children.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, well it wasn't my idea. It was it was
something that someone came to me.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
With a So, so I'm talking the wrong guy.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah, yeah, we can. We can patch him in if
you want.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It was actually an Israeli dude, interestingly enough, who used
to be at Disney marketing exact a long time ago,
and he always thought it would be cool to do uh,
sort of a Power Rangers, but where their action team
and all of them are from different faiths, they work together.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
That's that's what this show is also.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
But you know Disney, for some reason, Disney didn't want
to touch anything that is about religion or you know,
world cultures or hasn't been made by Disney already previously.
The story version is basically is that because religion is
such a devisive topic, they thought, if we walk in
the front door and Netflix and these other places, forget
the fact they don't know what they're making right now anyway,
they're gonna say religion, forget it. That's that's controversial, they said.
(06:56):
He said, let's grow and let's put it online. Let's
make the pilot of this for free. Put it online
and see if it grows an online audience, and if
it shows that lots of people are excited and signing
up for it, then we can come back to the
buyers in the studios and say, look, there's there's organic
interest in and that's actually that's actually working, I think fantastic.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
So if our audience wanted to see God's Gang, oh
they can't. They can't you sets online.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
They have to subscribe to your podcast first, okay.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Subscribe to Don't Below with Jake Cogan, and.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Then theoretically they would but theoretically they would go to
Godsgang dot com. You can watch the pilot and the
trailer and all that and and you know, just my plug,
you know, just to get the plug out of the way.
Is that if you if you I sound like one
of my son's YouTube YouTubers, but if you smash that
like button, if you, if you like and subscribe, then
just literally those numbers, like we've gotten a million YouTube
followers right now, so we're gonna go into.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
You have a million followers. I have two hundred. Right,
see what's going on?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I think you should get on join God's Gang. Jab
Oh my gosh, join the gang.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I have two hundred followers, and he's got a million
for his crazy religious show, crazy religious cartoon. Right, I
well good? Right of the million? Did you say how
many a million? I have a million? How many do
you think are insane evangelical Christians?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well that's interesting because like they have had a negative
reaction when they well, first of all, the crazy thing,
the craziest thing is that you know, you know what
YouTube comments are like, and never read the comments, right,
They've been unfailing, like almost unfailing the positive, which is
like shocking, like people are.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Like, this seems like a good idea.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And then you've got you've got sort of the sort
of snark crowd who's like yikes, you know, just like
just like the way that you know, you know, millennials
and gen Z sort of react to anything. And then
you've got like but interestingly, like a bunch of you know,
evangelic We were sort of expecting more blowback from I
don't know, maybe Islam, maybe Hindu, I don't know, maybe
some Jews, but it's been it's been a bunch of
(08:45):
evangelical Christians who don't like the idea of all of
them being sort of equated, right, you know, like.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
There's one religion and then we have some other religions.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Which is interesting because our Christian character is African American
and is inspired by a Baptist minister who one of
our advisors. We have religious advisers from all the faiths,
and and he is this and so like a lot
of actually African American Christians have gone on line and
say they really like it because they you know, there's
a little bit of representation and that's the kind of
Christianity they.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Grew up with this, you know, spread the love and
that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Right. So, but so that each one of the characters
has its own superpower, right, well, the Christian what is this?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
So he he has the he has the power of
cheek block, which means he can turn the other cheek
and actually blow and actually defend against attacks, can ricochet effect.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yes, okay, and then and then the uh, the the
islam Islamic character is a great storyteller, can mesmerize people.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
With this story. It's that comes from the sort of
Arabian nights or right Islamic.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
The Hindu character is kind of like Aquaman. She she
could talk to the animals and nature.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So yeah, so we we polled sort of all the
faith leaders and said, what are the most important values
to you in the Hindu advisor, which I knew the
least about, said like connection in.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Nature and the jew is a forensic account. Yes, why they.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Can he can give you two sets of books, right, this.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
There's a funny bit about that, which is that he
has the sort of telemutic ability to kind of like
size up a situation, kind of like terminator view, like
you could look.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
It seems like all these other people are doing the
things his was super intellectual, right, Well, I mean it
has like a when you see it, like it has
like a.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Visual kind of like it looks like the way the
terminator looks at things, like it's like it grids out everything,
like here's the enemy, here's the obstacle.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Beautiful mind right, it's beautiful mind like.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
But but the thing is, we called it the pun
was we called it the Anna laser like laser. But
this is before Marjorie Taylor Green. So one of the
mani comments we got on this was like.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Oh, Jews and lasers. I see what you're doing there,
not knowing that actually Jews has literally come up with this.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Sure taking back deeper into your religion. Now you you
characterize yourself in as an observant Jew, What does that
mean to you?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
It doesn't mean observant in the sense of noticing things
around maybe No, no, if you ask my wife, no.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I mean religiously like how how closely do you follow.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Some not orthodox, right, But I am someone who sort
of uh, you know, observe Shabbat uh in the sense
that we have Shabbat dinner, uh, don't work on Shabbat,
don't do anything creative, don't buy things, but you know,
like we use electronics at home, that sort of thing
which anthox person when I do. We do drive on occasion, uh,
(11:16):
that sort of thing again in our thus but like
we sort of try to sort of keep it as
a different spiritual day.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Same thing with kosher.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
We don't eat uh, non kosher meat or shellfish, don't
eat meat milk, but would eat in a restaurant if
we sort of satisfied that that the when I say we,
you know, it's sort of I'm probably the most religious
in my.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Family, right. I'm also not a very religious Jew. I'm not.
I'm not. I'm culturally Jewish, but I don't, like, I
don't believe in many of the tenants of I've got,
which pisses my some of the people off of my
tourist study group, right, like, well, if you don't believe
in God, what are you doing here?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
It's like, well, that's I'm a very typical Jewish position.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Right, So, but but and it's not it's not a
religious position. It's more of a uh it's it's it's
just more of a heritage of what I have. I
also just like I like that culture. I grew up
in that culture. I'm comfortable in that culture. And I
like many of the traditions of my culture. And that's fine.
I don't like all the sad music, right right, and
(12:14):
have a major key please and then and then and
then not great food, yeah, I really not food to
be fair, Well, that's my culture.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, but okay, but you could go further rob with
Jewish food.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, I can get the Spanish versions of stuff that's good. Yeah,
and it'd be great, but we don't.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
We don't.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I small soup's great a plus right small no notes, yeah,
no notes. But I mean it's like there's lots of
other things that is not Sometimes you want some salt exactly,
kosher meat not always the.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Best, right, not always right?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And and flavors and right.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I mean that's just you know, it's Eastern European stuff. Yea,
So most people don't necessarily, Hey, you guys going to
check out the Eastern European please, It's true that's the
Eastern guys, tire Slavic tonight, what's gonna be?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
It's true, it's it's it's terrible.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I mean Croatian home.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
My ancestors in the Ukraine. You know, IM pretty sure
they were eating dirt.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah right, Like what else can we make with potatoes, beats, roots, things.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
That they can scrape out of the ground? So how
I guess the question I have is like, how to
incorporate your Judaism into your work? And how does it?
How much is affected? How much does it not affected?
Of course our histories and who we affect everything we do.
It's where mine. But specifically, did it not that we
(13:41):
want to indoctrinate. I don't want to indoctrinate people into Judaism,
that's not We don't even proselytize. We don't care. People aren't.
Weren't asking people to sign up to be Jews, and
if we were, that'd be a bad business right now.
But uh, but you know I've written things. I've written
a Fraser episode where Fraser had to pretend to be Jewish,
and and I've written a Simpsons episode that they got
(14:03):
involved with the Talmud.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Did you pitch those or were those assigned to you
as the one jew But.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
No, I was about those rooms.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I pitched the I pitched the Simpsons episode the basically
the jazz singer Crusty the clown as the jazz singer. Yeah,
that was something that me and Wally and I pitched
and campaign for and got uh. And the Christmas episode
where everybody had to pretend to be Jewish was not
my idea, but it was something that I worked on
(14:33):
in the room with a lot of other people. And
I wasn't the only Jewet Fraser, but I was the loudest.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Jewet Fraser, the goyistest show ever probably, yes.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
It was a very goy room, but that was you know,
a lot of the great the greatest jew jokes in
that script came from non Jews.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I worked in late nights, so there wasn't like as
many call for like stories like you know in scripted,
like you worked in an episodic, right, you want to
draw on stories that maybe that come from your life
and it's more about like bits and gags and jokes
and just like what happened with you is a lot
of the funny things that Jewish things that have come
on the shows I worked on have been pitched and
something's written by non Jews, and I was sort of
(15:10):
called in just to sort of revet them right at
the end.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
But I wouldn't have thought to pitch them.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Like, but of course everyone and my family and friends
and my family's friends would ask me, did you do that?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Did you do that?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
We've developed shows before together. There's a really great cartoon
that we developed. I still want to I'm still I'm
still pitching out there, the sort of noir mystery cartoon.
And I don't think any of the characters in there
are Jewish, right, And it's and it wouldn't occur to me.
You're like, ah, that's another that's a that's a great
(16:00):
There are characters who are black, and there are characters
who are you know, many other things, but none who
seem to be Jewish. And I think, well, is that
something I'm is that something we're missing? Is that something
that we should be leaning into more, especially now, even
now that it's a big controversial subject, even now that
you know people are saying, you know, anti Semitism is
(16:24):
on the rise, and we're both concerned about it. We've
been a member of like I've seen you at places
where we're trying to sort of figure out how we
can combat it anti Semitism. It's like, but is it
is that by putting more Jewish characters front and center
in media helpful or maybe that's just proof to them
that well, the Jewish control the media.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
That's the other thing too, is like it's like, I
feel like there's been so many things, especially in recent years,
like I don't know that I'm the one who needs
to bring it forward.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And maybe it is just sort.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Of like like like being in a comedy room and saying, hey, guys,
I'm Jewish and it's like.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, so were six of us?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Right?
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Doesn't like that interesting as a differentiator.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
What do you think the most interesting Jewish Judaism centered
or featured show has been.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
I'm actually kind of a fan of Stiesel. Have you
seen that?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yes? Yeah, but that it's an Israeli show.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
It is Israeli.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
But what's interesting about that shows too, is that even
though it's like it's obviously a very traditional Jewish.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
First we should describe it. It's basically a soap opera, yeah,
that takes place in Israel, and it features Orthodox Jews
for the most part. Orthodox Jews living in an orthodox
Jewish life, right, and that part of it is almost
beside the point it's about fathers.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And so that's so interesting about it is it's that
it's almost not very Jewish in terms of it's like structure,
like you know, like there's rules and there's things that
are just implasted in the community. But it's almost like
almost like Larry David Blake, here's the thing you don't do,
you know, just things they're supposed to be obvious, but
you never see him like build a sukka or like
blow a show far, or like refrain from bacon, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Right, and by blowing a show far for those of
you don't know, it's a horn that people blow at
a holiday time, not something dirty.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm just look at Jaye introducing more Jewish content hitting
that again.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Steel, which has great show. The only thing the beard's
kind of bug me. Everybody's beers. I think food is
in their beard. Like it always seems dirty.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Right, everything seems dirty part of you.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, honestly a little bit of it when I watched,
So I think they got to clean up that house.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
And what's going on with that, jay I don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I'm very concerned about you know, TV and Frasier.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
The room looked clean, right, right, I want no beard,
no beards allot.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
And even on in the Sopranos.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I can't even hand the pictures of Kelsey Grammer with
the beard nowadays.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So it's upsetting, but so okay, so steel, But then
what is there been an American show or show from.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I guess maybe the closest has been a crazy ex
girlfriend where where Rachel Bloom is sort of like leaned
into Jewish identity and there's you know, every now and
then has done some stuff about that, like the jab rap,
the sort of infamous and things like that, where I
think it's just become a little bit part of the texture,
maybe in a more like typical way. And maybe that's
(19:06):
also making me think like, okay, well this doesn't need
to be you know, if I'm if I was Native
American or you know, disabled, which is you know, two
sort of communities I pay attention to, I would be
saying like, yes, we need more different kinds of representation
of us. And I think that's starting to happen with
Native things. There's a lot really kind of renaissance for that.
But you know, I think that it sort of reached
(19:27):
a healthy level.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I guess here's the thing. I think that we are
under the or I have been under the misapprehension all
these years that Jews were just part of American culture
and that we just flow right in and we're funny
story exactly. Yeah, and we're accepted as like a silly anomaly.
(19:48):
But I feel like that's not necessarily true anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I feel like that there's makes me feel bad for
our kids because it's like I feel like we got
this sort of gold is golden age.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, when we're living a lie, and that was fine,
it was good. But now it's the most recent the troubles,
the troubles in the Middle East have let people sort
of let their anti Semitism flag fly no hidden in
or not so hidden in a cloak of anti war.
(20:19):
So like, like I get, you can be anti war
and not be anti Semitic. That is absolutely one hundred percentury.
You can be anti Israel or anti the way Israel
is conducting the war and not be anti Semitic. You know,
it's just like, hey, I don't, I don't I am
anti you know, cluster bombs falling in places where there
(20:41):
are cities and schools and kids. I know, Yes, that's
their trick. They're hiding soldiers in the middle of hospitals
and schools. And I would say, well, okay, that's a
good that's a good place to hide. And those guys
get to hide there unless we have like a special
team of Navy seals or something going in under to
(21:03):
make sure that we don't kill the people in the
hospital and people in the schools. Like you know, it's
not a win for Israel to kill the soldiers in
the school. If they kill everybody else in the school,
it's not a win. So I would say, yes, protest
against that, let's stop that. But I'm not protesting against
(21:24):
Jews existing. So here we are. But I worry about
our kids, and I worry about how Judaism is perceived.
And I worry that if you make a character jew,
make a character Jewish, what it says to the non
Jewish world about that character just from the get go.
Do they hate this character? I like this character? Is
(21:46):
it a problem? Is it not a problem? So I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I mean it's interesting because I think sometimes like it
seems like the test of when I think a marginal
group has achieved full representation is when they can be
presented as a villain right confidently. As a villain, people
can just say, oh, that's a fictional version of that's
one flavor of this kind of person. And I feel
like now if you put a Jewish villain, you would
get memed and taken sincerely as a you know what
(22:08):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
So you think that's a moment of acceptance.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I think it's a retreat in a way.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I feel like a few years ago, you could have
like really villainous, right, you know, villains, you know, like
Larry Damon, like villain's Jewish characters who are just really like,
you know, selfish and all that stuff. And I think
nowadays I would be reluctant to put that forward because
I feel like the pr is so bad already, And yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I agree, And then what should we do about that?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Like the aggression is almost like you have to go
backwards and like create more sort of saintly Jewish characters,
positive positive ones, which is sort of I feel like,
not progress exactly, but so we.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Should create a show about Jewish characters that go around
the city, yes, helping people or you know, bestowing magic
powers upon people. Or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yes, bestowing space leaders upon people.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Space leaders are not helpful. So what should I do?
Give me help me? What should I do? Should I should? I?
Should we? Because we're we work together on occasion? Should
we create shows that have nothing to do with Judaism
but just infuse it with our own cultural biases and
wisdom and thoughts and and give characters.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I would I would do one of two things. I mean,
I think there's a lot of interesting corners of Judaism
that could work, Like, for example, like a mixed scenario,
like you know, you know, like that you just put
your finger on it, like a Jew and a Black
were married like that. To me, that's an interesting spicy
like its compromise because you can sort of have the
best of both worlds and you can sort of explore that,
you know, what happened in history, Like to me, that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Or like I kind of lean, is that even legal?
What state?
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Exactly, it's like double illegal, but it's the double negative
so that it is illegal again. Or then there's also
like really a lot of interesting parts of like Jewish
occult and like fantasy, like you know, the gold Woman
has sort of been explored. But there's a lot of
things that I kind of I'm in a more fantastical
bent as you know, So to me, I would like
maybe start with one of those start with one of
those areas, I think. But I don't know, if you know,
(24:04):
it's like what you describe as your Jewish experience, you know,
it might just be that it's a little bit sort
of it might be a little bit more generic still
to like the suburban you.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Know, yeah, I mean class experience.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That is not that it's not that different because you
weren't from an immigrant family.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
That's right. I don't have my thount. I think my
suburban middle class life is not shockingly different from most
suburban middle class life.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
My wife has told me that I should.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
My best friend was was black at this high school
that I went to, the school I went to, this
Christian school. And I'm not just saying that so I
can make a black joke.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
But the Westminster schools, yes.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Wow, okay, yeah, okay, are you going to say my name?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
It's fine?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Okay, okay, j Cogan, p I here. No.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
But so my wife has said, like that would make
a great show. Is like the jew and the Black,
you know, uh, going, going, And it was also a
very conserveive, conservative, preppy like stuffy prep school, you know,
coming up together in this and we also we were
both the liberal in the school was the people were
not predominantly so US like Us against the World will
be an interesting show as well.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Yeah, I mean I've been I've been reluctant for some
of the same reasons.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, well, maybe it should be uh more forward thinking,
I think maybe braver. I mean, listen, it's a it's
a shitty environment to pitch anything anyway, so why not
pitch something that's uh, that's a little bit more challenging, right, right, right,
all right, well, Rob, you have helped me, as most
guests here, you really have any hours ubject now, But
(25:27):
I mean, I'm glad we discussed it.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I think the short answer is, like, I think it's
Judaism interesting where it intersects with other things.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
That's a creative springboard that I think would be interesting
to Hollywood and us and maybe by itself it doesn't
have the interest outside of our community at.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Least right now.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
So okay, so now we have the moment of joy.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Oh okay, a moment of.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Joy this is the most middle aged dad answer you
can think of.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
But kids, Oh, that's that would be good.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Now, you can't say your.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Kids now, I can't say excluding that fighting with my
teenage daughter. No.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I started playing the bass about two years ago, and
I'm not very good, but I'm good enough to like
learn some songs I know, and so like, whenever I
sit down, like there's a period of when like, oh
my god, I'm never going to get this right, and
then it cracks.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I cracked the song up.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
At some point I'm able to kind of get through it,
and I'm like, when I can do that and play
with the song. It sounds so basic, but it feels
to me like I've tapped into something that I've always
enjoyed passively and now I can sort of be part
of it.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
What's your favorite song to play right now?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Well, I'm actually learning been learning Barracuda Art, which is
really hard on the bass, actually really fast. So I've
been learning at seventy five percent speed and I just
started doing it at full speed yesterday, which almost killed my fingers.
But congratulations, it's been a challenge for that.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And can you jam? Are you good enough to jam
with people?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
I'm not at that point yet.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
That's my next step because that's the whole level of
music theory, musicality, and I didn't really have that kind
of training, right, you know with base they put the
notes out in a certain way where you can just
follow the numbers and tell you where your fingers should.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Like that. I want to get into the jamming stuff,
but it's a whole different level.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Yeah. I mean once you sort of figure out chords.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Yeah, then you're just like your music relationships.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I mean that can when you're jamming, people will
call out right some times like this is this c
F energy.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
So you know the whole scale? Yeah, stuff, that's that's
the dream.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
But you'll get there. You'll get there.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Barracuda is interesting. Was that song meaningful to you? Did? What?
Why'd you pick that?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I just any kind of like predatory sea life to
me as a as a musical inspiration.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
No, I just honestly, like, here's the thing I drive around.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I hear the songs now, I listen to the bass
parts actively and if I and it has has a
very cool, like in a creative bass part, like somebody's there.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Ticket to ride? Why why didn't you practicing take.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I did play that with with someone earlier. A lot
of bass parts are just like, honestly, like a bunch
of eight notes and then it changes notes, and then
another bunch of eth notes and it changes back to
the first ones and then the third one. So it's
it's rhythmic and it's fun. But then it's like Bary
could have like does a lot of more interesting things
with rhythm.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
So yeah, I mean I want you back, did you
do I want you back?
Speaker 4 (28:07):
No, that's a good fun it's a great bass song. Yeah,
it's like good.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
So some songs are just screamed to me.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Play the bass right, and another ones that are like
way too hard, like all the progressive rock ones that
are just like baroke bass parts.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
With you know, no, those are for masters.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
You gotta that middle, that middle middle of the world.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, Junior, any sort of challenging, but not nineteen sixties
rock and roll song. Anybody should be able to play
because those people play the bass on those songs weren't
good either, right, so you should be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
They were they were there drafted to play the bass
from off the street right for the session.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Right. Well, Phil, thank you for being here Rob. Yeah,
it's great to see you. Thank you for explaining your
stance on all things.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I think we got a little done here today.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
We did. We got a little done here. It's just
like the bass practice, right, it's got a little bit
of it.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
But we got a few notes.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
And thank you my audience for being here. Do none
million of you? They don't.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I don't have the money. Again he is the son
of a bitch. Well, now it begins. The Cuttner bump
isn't effect.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
So I expect a million viewers soon. But until then,
thank you for watching and being part of the show.
And the whole point of the show is don't be alone.
So you don't be alone. Go talk to somebody, make
a phone call, make a connection with somebody, and hopefully
I will connect with you someday soon. I'll talk to
you later. By bye. Don't be
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