October 28, 2025 • 48 mins
Comedian David Koechner talks about growing up in a big family in a small Missouri town, and developing the need to be heard and seen by taking the attention, the importance of SNL and Monty Python. Deciding to be a performer. Making the move to Chicago, the influence of being Catholic, the fall of old show business, trying to carve out a career in the aftermath. Becoming a stand-up, how we don’t own our kids, improv vs drama, feuds, apologies, Adam McCay, Del Close, and the maturity to not spill a milkshake over yourself even if you will get a laugh.
Bio:David Michael Koechner on August 24, 1962, in Tipton, Missouri, his parents ran a business manufacturing turkey coops. He has two brothers and three sisters. He studied political science before moving to Chicago to pursue improvisational comedy at ImprovOlympic and Second City. Koechner was a cast member on Saturday Night Live from 1995–1996, performing in sketches like "Bill Brasky" and "The British Fops". His breakout film role was as Champ Kind in Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy (2004), a character he returned to in the 2013 sequel. He also played Todd Packer in 15 episodes of The Office (2005–2013), a role for which Steve Carell recommended him. Koechner has appeared in numerous other films, including Talladega Nights, Thank You for Smoking, Extract, and Waiting..., and received praise for his dramatic role in Cheap Thrills (2014). His television work includes voice roles in American Dad! and recurring parts in shows like Another Period and The Goldbergs. He continues to perform stand-up comedy and tours with "The Office Trivia with 'Todd Packer'". David performs stand-up around the country and is available for dinner if the food's good.
Editing Notes: David does a LOT of shitting on priests and churches and show biz. I think it gets boring.
Bio:David Michael Koechner on August 24, 1962, in Tipton, Missouri, his parents ran a business manufacturing turkey coops. He has two brothers and three sisters. He studied political science before moving to Chicago to pursue improvisational comedy at ImprovOlympic and Second City. Koechner was a cast member on Saturday Night Live from 1995–1996, performing in sketches like "Bill Brasky" and "The British Fops". His breakout film role was as Champ Kind in Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy (2004), a character he returned to in the 2013 sequel. He also played Todd Packer in 15 episodes of The Office (2005–2013), a role for which Steve Carell recommended him. Koechner has appeared in numerous other films, including Talladega Nights, Thank You for Smoking, Extract, and Waiting..., and received praise for his dramatic role in Cheap Thrills (2014). His television work includes voice roles in American Dad! and recurring parts in shows like Another Period and The Goldbergs. He continues to perform stand-up comedy and tours with "The Office Trivia with 'Todd Packer'". David performs stand-up around the country and is available for dinner if the food's good.
Editing Notes: David does a LOT of shitting on priests and churches and show biz. I think it gets boring.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawt Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, my name is David Keckner. You're watching and listening
to Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan, and I am
no longer alone.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Don't be Alone with jj Cogan. Hello, don't be a loners.
It's me Jake Cogan, and you're alone with me, and
it's all right. It's all good. Write to me at
dbaw JK with your comments and suggestions and criticisms and
compliments and listener questions for my guests. I need them.
(00:33):
I need them. I need life questions. I need big questions,
little questions, dumb questions, any kind of questions. Please write in.
They would really help. We have a wonderful show for
you today. A great comedian, actor, and a man of
many opinions is here, David Keckner. You might know him
from the office or from Anchorman. You'll also know him
(00:56):
from a million other things that he's done. The naked
Truck in t Bone and just being in the comedy
scene for the last I don't know, thirty five years.
It's incredible. He has a great story coming from Missouri
and going to Second City and coming out to Hollywood
to try and make it, and he did make it.
But the main thing we're going to be talking about. He,
(01:17):
like me, was known for doing anything for laugh. We
would do anything for laugh. We would embarrass ourselves. We
would get messy, we would get ridiculous, we would leave rooms,
we would fall on the floor, we would do physical things,
we would do mental things, whatever it took to get
a laugh. What's that about? At its heart? Why did
(01:37):
we crave that attention? Why do we need that attention?
Do we still need it? Isn't it embarrassing? Why we're
we embarrassed? What was going on? I used to think
we were just part of a club of people making
jokes and being funny. But then years later people told
me there is no club. That is not a club.
It's just somebody who needs attention or who wants to
be seen in a certain way. I think it's more
(01:59):
than that. I think it's better than that, but maybe not.
We'll talk about it, and who better to talk about
it then with the great David Keckner, And he'll be
here right after this. Don't be alone with j David Keckner. Yes, welcome,
Thank you. I really appreciate you doing this. Thanks for
(02:21):
having me. Uh, you know, I've known you for many years.
One time, many years ago, we did a pilot together.
You came and did a pilot for me, and you
were hysterical. Which one was It was, you're gonna test
my memory?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
My friend David Steinberg directed, could be yes, and that
could be too Dave Pholey. So we're talking twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, that's uh, that's yeah. So it's a wild yeah.
But anyway, and then there's been other run ins with you,
dot ones, good ones, no fights, no fights, uh, and uh,
you know, I was just saying, as you're sitting down there,
you were gonna you walked in and you were gonna
do a bit. You're gonna throw the tooth beace, where's
a toothpick?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Where can it was a plastic thing which I haint.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Where can I throw it?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Where?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Where's the trash can? And you said, in the olden days,
you would have just tossed it on the floor as
a joke and not say anything, not say anything because
because it's funny, and we know, I know you're a
human being, you're not a monster, and you wouldn't just
throw trash on the floor. So therefore it's a joke.
So we live in an age where that's the intention
is not always clear. That I mentioned, you get tired
(03:28):
of your old jokes, and we get tired of our
own jokes, and we get tired of the energy it takes,
the energy it takes a joke. So like years ago,
I would do a joke where I would do say,
somebody would say something innocuous, and I would act seriously
offend it and run out of the room, often to
my car, and often drive away. If the car was
in view of the people, I would drive away. It's
(03:50):
a funny joke, it's really funny. It takes an enormous
amount of effort and time, and I'm really preventing something
else from happening, actual interaction.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Right because we're trying to challenge our own performance anxiety,
and test the boundaries of what were courageous enough to do?
How outlandish, creative, original, all that stuff memorable. But then
(04:22):
it takes us a long time, many years for me
to realize the cost it put on them. Yeah, they're like,
oh fuck.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, the hope is it's giving them joy, it's giving
them a story, it's giving them fun. And then we're
usually doing with other jokesters.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Of course, you wouldn't do it to a non player, right, Yeah,
so we're.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Doing for other people so they get there. They're in
the game too, Yes, so it's not it's not just
a toll on them.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
No. No, I've talked about myself. I've been exhausting for
years and I couldn't help. But probably is almost spectrum
like in that. But I always I look back at
it now as constantly sharpening my blade. If you're in
front of you an audience, and that's the thing, how
can I it's practice? I think it became maybe that's
(05:14):
the only way I can view it now. It was
like I was trying to.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
But it's not practice exactly, because it's that counts.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Why it counts.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
We're doing something and we're making a joke with each other.
That counts as much as it counts on camera or
not on camera on stage.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Right, But even if those persons aren't performers, that's a difference. Yeah,
it wouldn't matter where it is. I'm always doing making
everyone an audience, which can be exhausting for your family.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Or the people with which leads me to the question
I want to ask you, which is I sent you
this question in advance every show, somebody smart like you
helps me with my problem and this week the problem
is why do we do it?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Like?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
What is it about the that's in our makeup that
made us say, oh, we need this attention, We need
to be the center of attention. We need to make
people laugh. What's what's? What do we get?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
All those things that you had outlined in that email
are true? No, because we take them as I believe
how we may be thinking about how that punishes those
around us. Right, our behavior to them is potentially exhausting,
(06:31):
we think, right.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I don't never think that. I think it's a gift
because I like it people.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I agree. But when you though you would, you had
framed it, you said, is it insecurity? Is it what else?
What else? Was it?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Security? Desperate for approval.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Desperation, all that stuff. Yes we can look at it
that way. Yes others can look at that way, but really,
what does it bring you? One word? Yeah? Joy?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Well that's true.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So that's why you do it, And that's true.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I think that's true. I want to impress people. Let
me go deeper. I understand that I want to impress people.
I wanted to make them laugh, but I want to
make I wanted to impress them by making them last. Right, Okay,
so it's like that's it's not just if I was anonymous,
if I could whisper in someone else's ear, do this
bit and you'll get a big laugh. I don't think
(07:25):
I would like that nearly as much as me doing
it of course. All right, well, but that's it's not
just the joy for bringing other people joy. That's the difference.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I agree, you and I know we're splitting hairs and
we're getting into a semantical argument in a way philosophical, right,
I think if we can easily look at it like
I'm the third of six, Okay, I needed attention, right.
My mother had won two three kids in three years
by the time she got to me, and I was
a lot. I still am exhausting, right, I mean she
(07:56):
must have. Can I curse on the show? Who the
fuck are you you?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Now?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
My older brother had had an illness very early. He
got very sick, and so they're very We're in central Missouri,
so we don't have the greatest care. She was very
worried about him as to they didn't think he was
just survive. He's fine now, just find now that's a
long illness no, no, no, I got no no, no.
(08:21):
He was fine. But the worry at the time of
her first born, oh my god, that was a focus.
And then she kept having more kids. My father was
working in a new business. He was a manufacturer, and
so that house was just busy and exhausting, and she
was away from her family. She'd been taken away from
this family of loving kids and transplanted into this small
(08:44):
town where she didn't know anybody and didn't particularly care
for them. So I was not necessarily a priority, right,
And I think by that time we go, the kids
will take it. You know, what can you do? It's
a different time, so I I'll be honest. I didn't
get what I needed. So then you create in a
(09:05):
way your own satisfaction, right one way or the other. Right.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So, if you're craving attention, you found a way to
get attention, right, Okay, But then you could get the attention.
I guess here there we are. Those are these two
ideas meet?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Uh. You get the attention by giving bringing joy to others.
You make other people laugh, right, You've always made other
people laugh, haven't you.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I'm a very young I have attempted to always make
people Okay, it's not always been successful, but most of
the time.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So you've had a very long career in this ain't
an easy place to get to. So you've found that
by giving other people joy, you also got what you
needed was joy and attention. Now we can look at
what we call the negative aspect of that, that it's
some deep seated psychological thing. Is because I feel empty? Fine, okay,
(09:59):
all right. It's also a form of control. Say more
about that, and control? How controlling the room for comics.
We're controlling the room right from me, right you, I'm
going to make you laugh me. I'm controlling the room.
I'm getting the response from you that I want.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
What happens when you lose control of the room, when
a heckler or somebody you know, and something in the
audience happens that sort of brings the attention over there.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Everybody deals with it in a different way. Yeah, I
have five kids. I deal with it in what I
try to believe is a fatherly matter, like who's talking?
Who's talking? For really, I try not to get mad,
like I'm like, I'm sorry, who's talking? Hey? Hey, hey, hey,
(10:48):
you can't talk? Now, that's the fucking club's job, right.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Right, But that doesn't always they're not always people there.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
To do it. Now, the person that's talking to the
two reasons, they're either drum or they're a narcissist because
they're like that person's getting the attention. I'm gonna talk
over here, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Now.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
There's also a third component, which is everyone's used to
watching TV at home, so you just talk.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I think they've been socialized to say talking to TV
or talk during things, and.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Okay, but people don't talk during church all right, yeah,
so we know, you know, but they're funny. It would
be funny too, like no, no, you're not, you're here,
you do this. So there's another component because a lot
of the things that people see on social media is
crowd work, because crowd work gets views. So people that
(11:40):
have never been to our comedy club think all shows
are crowd work.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Well, so you're not giving up your act if you
put the crowd work on the on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
That's this fucking idea.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
That's true. Like, Okay, the more exposed a joke is,
the less the audience wants to hear.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
But write another one, right, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
If you're constantly writing new stuff all the time, then sure,
But I mean people are trying to often, at least
in the old days, I don't know if anymore, they
were trying to build half hour hour specials, and they
wanted those jokes to remain I.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Think I hear that. I believe that's a false premise,
Like you got to be so protective of this stuff.
You know they're grateful dead gave it away, that's true.
You want more people to know your jokes right, right?
And that's the point.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Did you find it hard because you weren't a stand
up comedian? You became a stand up comedian after years.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
After I had my fifth kid, exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's why I did it all right, Necessity dictated, because
so you how did you become How did you generate
that material?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Improvisation? So I started, I started Second City and the
Improbalympic in Chicago in nineteen eighty seven, and so an improvisation,
I did long form improvis that's my camera. I did
long form improvisation, which is your camera. You uh, long
form improvisation. And I know you know this, but I'm
gonna say this for our audience. You get a suggestion,
(13:07):
and you've got a group of between five to seven
people on your team, your group, and then you create
something based on a suggestion. There's it's not rehearsed, it's
not planned. It is a format that we all adhere
to and we play within. And the better we're playing
(13:27):
within this format. It's almost like here's the rules of
the football game. And so now you have plays. Now
you don't have you don't have you have plays in theory, right,
you don't have scripted plays. So I'm trying to make
this metaphor digestible. So we all know we're going to
go out there. But you're creating from nothing, as you
(13:50):
well know. So the scene is microphone, right, You can
do anything with that idea of microphone. Right. A microphone amplifies, right,
But you can also choose I can't hear you, right, right,
And that's the simplest game.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And in long form improv, it's not always your choice.
It's the choice somebody else just made that you're jomping on.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Then I support, yeah, yes, So anyway, that's how you
start creating from literally nothing. So after a while, really
you just have this ability to be always creating on stage.
It's the approach to creation.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So what I.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Did, just I'll tell you real quick. So I started
doing improv and sketch from the very beginning, which was
a great way to become a comic because you're just
always creating on stage every night of the week. And
so I the reason I started doing stand up I
had five killed children, and I had a good career.
But you know, I'm not stupid. We all know there
(14:50):
could be you know, follow times, and so I decided
when I had my fifth kid, I said, you know what,
I'm going to do a standard because I never want
to be dependent on somebody else to give me a job.
I never want to be out of a job. So
I started doing stand up then, and we're living in
La So the way you do that is you developed
(15:12):
three four, five minutes at a time. You start doing
just spots fifteen minutes all over town. And I did
that and I slowly built it, and I look back
then it is more more like a one man show
doing a bunch of characters. Very interesting, and over time
you just find more bits like oh, there's a thing
that I know, and talking to the audience tells you
what they agree with. Right, You're like, oh, right, there's
(15:34):
a little vein of comedy there. So that's how I
developed it and did it.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Don't be alone. I love improv and I think the
improv is what made me a writer. Yes, and it's
also it didn't make me a great actor. I don't
think it made me a great actor. Maybe I am a
better writer, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, what do you think acting is different than improv?
Improv is, yes, and find the agreement. Acting is find
the drama. Okay. Yeah, if you say you're mad at me,
I said, well you should be mad at me. No,
you're mad at me for what. That's a stronger scene
(16:28):
in a drama scripted an improvisation, you say you're mad
at me, like, well you should be mad at me.
I'm been trying to piss you off for days. Comedy, Yeah,
but in drama, I'm mad at you for what. You
think I did something wrong? You did something wrong. That's
completely different. It doesn't make you a better actor. It
gives you a better stage presence. It gives you your
(16:50):
stage balance, your feet, your bravery, all that stuff to
go out and do that your performance chops. So you
can use that here and use that improvisation in acting,
because you can say Okay, I'm mad at this person.
I can now create an idea of like I'm so fucked.
(17:10):
You can go off script in your head, not not
in your rehearsal right, and use that.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah. Yeah, I would say that that the tenants that
improv makes you comfortable on stage, makes it comfortable with failure,
like you're comfortable with like it makes you a better performer.
It does not. The acting part is interesting. Better actors
and people who come from improv become good actors learn
to do less. They learn to take it in the
(17:36):
more interior. You know, everything's not showing, it's about it's
harder to do, yeah, to make that transition. Yeah, yeah,
And that's why you know I'm still to this day
not a great actor.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Well, it's hard, it's counterintuitive to what is the best
of us.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Right, But still to this day we're still doing what
we were doing when we're as kids. It's still it's
still getting up in front of people and it's still
getting their attention, right, And so I haven't even though
we're more mature, we don't have to do the biggest
bit to get the laugh. It's still in me and
I'm not and I'm not I'm havn't grown out of
(18:12):
the idea that if there's a joke opportunity, take the
joke opportunity. Now, I think someday when I see the
joke opportunity and going yeah, no, I'm not interested, that
will be a real difference. I don't know if it's
better or worse, but it'll be a real difference.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
It's tough because you know, it punishes my kids.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Dad, right, don't Yeah, But also they laugh anyway, Yes,
they make they hate themselves for laughing and Dad's joke
that they didn't want to laugh about in the first place.
But it's the best part exactly. That's why my kid
does the same thing. It's like you stop and then
get them to laugh. It's fantastic, right, but it's it's uh.
I I'm also very loud and I don't know it. Oh, yes,
(18:52):
I'll be on the phone. Can I just affirm that
you're very loud?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yes, for sure?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
On the phone? Am I allowed today?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
No? No, I just in life. You're a loud personally.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Loud, and I don't know it. My family's loud, and
I'm not loud to try to get attention, right, I'm
just loud. I came from a family of six. I
noticed a couple of years ago, because god, why am
I so lowed? I was at my my siblings place
in Kansas City, and we're all there, and oh my god,
oh my god, everybody's talking at volume. Well, there you go.
(19:28):
It wasn't me and my my uncles would be here.
Here's how my uncles talked.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And they all talked over each other, and there's all
this and this and this.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Did you get Did you get positive attention from your
brothers and sisters when you were funny?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah? Okay? Your parents, yeah, they didn't understand me at all. Okay, No,
I'm very different than my family. My father's a hard worker.
I had to work since I was seven years old.
I've never been unemployed. I regret I resented it. It's
not what I wanted to do. They didn't understand who
(20:03):
I was. Look, I'm an artist and they've not met one.
I didn't know what that was. I just knew I
had to do something different. I knew at thirty. I
knew at ten years old I'm leaving.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
When did you decide I'm leaving here to go to
two place?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
At ten? I decided I'm leaving at thirteen, nineteen seventy
five Saturday, and Life came on. And I know my
parents are very conservative and not in other politics, but
in terms of like what we could watch, and I
knew SNL is coming on. If you remember they did
live promos, do you remember that.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I don't really remember the live promos.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
They did live promos. I might be older than you.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I think we're the same age.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Okay, I'm sixty two, almost sixty three.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I'm almost sixty two.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Okay, So Chevy Chase did live promos doing mumblety peg.
You know what mumbley peg is? Yeah, So for those
the uninitiated, mumblety peg is if you take a knife
and do this, but if you practice enough, you can
do it without really fast. So a knife goes from
here to there to hear, to hear to there to hear.
And he did, mum, what the I'm like what? This
was exciting? It's could be live that that hadn't happened
(21:07):
on television for many years, and it was comedy like
this is interesting and weird and different. So I didn't
say a word and I used to have to babysit
my younger brothers and sisters, the three of them. So
my parents would go out dancing every Saturday night. And
I knew Satay Live was going to come on and
I was going to watch it. And I watched it
and I was like, oh my god, what is this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
That was great?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
This great.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I was baby. I was babysitting the first night I.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Saw Will and so I decided, then I'm going to
be on that show. When I was thirteen in Timpton, Missouri,
and I didn't tell anyone because you don't tell people
in small towns your dreams.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So when did you get a chance to leave and start?
Where did you go to college?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I went to college at Benedictine College in Adchison, Kansas,
because I had to. My parents are very Catholic and
it's a small Catholic college that my uncle was the
abbot of the monastery. My mother's family had eleven kids.
Out of those eleven kids, two priests, two nuns. To
say we're Catholic, barely touches so very Catholic, so we
(22:06):
had to go there.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, what is that? I mean, that's interesting tradition, Like
usually the best of the family goes into the into
the priest like the very best.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Well, my my my mother's family is very poor, right,
so that's how they went. They could have They're bright
enough that probably could have gotten some type of scholarship.
I don't know, but you know that was the that
was that was free, right, you know, you pledge to
that thing, which to me, I just I still can't
wrap my head around it. It's it's it's unnatural.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I mean, it's it's natural in that society is saying
this is how we do it, and so that's that's unnatural.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It's unnatural, and it's untenable. It doesn't work. It's it's
a it's a false expectation that a person can remain
a human being can remain celibate.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I imagine some people have done it.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
By their own choice now by this decree. It's unnatural, right, Uh,
And it caused quite a bit of problems. It still does.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Sure. I'm always interested in trying to find something that
taps into my own spirituality and sort of can raise
me up. And it's very hard to find, since I'm
not a believer in any particular thing. But I'm trying
to sort of like, you know, figure out what because
there's a spiritual side of human beings and we want
to be raised up. And it's not just by you know,
(23:28):
spilling coffee on myself or something. You know that.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Although I could argue that there is something spiritual, I
agree there's something that is the spiritual.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
There's something giving and taking it, something l uplifting. I agree.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
That is our religion. Yeah, comedy is our religion.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I mean maybe you're right.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
It is. It's our fucking religion. Maybe. And it's guess what,
it's fucking freedom and joy. Yeah, that's a good god
damn religion, freedom and joy.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Like I mean if if people come into a comedy
club and they laugh for an hour, right, is how
is that compared to people going into another room and
being preached at and told they're wrong or they're going
to go to hell for an hour? Yeah, I mean
that's what's That's what's going to make you feel better.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That's a bad sermon. That's a bad sermon. There are
good sermons. I've sat through some good sermons, but yeah,
that's what's a good sermon. A good sermon to someone
is something that poses a question that means something to
you and starts talking about it in a way that
helps you sort of understand yourself and your world a
little bit better. Aren't supposed to tell you the same thing.
Aren't supposed to lift you up. Are supposed to tap
(24:33):
into some part of you that really needs to be
tapped into.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
And who has to have an emotional resonance, right that
soothes and satisfies me, that spirituality where I'm like on
that vibrational level with that thing, in communion with it,
and I feel better about myself. I feel it's it's
we see all the stuff on Instagram now about vibration,
(24:57):
and that's where the good stuff is, right right, right,
that vibration. So to go into a room where that
vibration is dampened.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right, let me ask you something more less global and
more personal. A few years ago, you had a little
run in with the dui.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yes, I've had two. Okay, I got two DUIs in
six months? All right?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
How did that change your life?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well? I had to stop drinking, all right. Well, Plus,
I don't know how it's impacted my viability in show business.
I'm sure it made people question it. I can't imagine
it did, and I just assume it did. Maybe, but
so so many it's not. Substance abuse has never been
a disqualifier for working. You know, you know, if you're
popular and you can sell tickets.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
But there's a stain. Yeah, I get it, But how
did you bring yourself out? It's easy to say I
got to stop drinking, but it's hard to do. It.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Took a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went
to rehab three times. Rehab doesn't work. Yeah. It rehab
cleaned you up for a month. Then you had to
get in the program. You had to get an AAA.
I also take the sulfree, which is antibuse. Okay, that
keeps me from it. I don't even think about drinking.
It's not an option, all right, it's not an option,
like I don't think of I just got back from Ireland, right, okay, Ireland,
(26:12):
my people, your people show got this tattoo in Ireland. Okay,
all my kids and I we all got tattoos. Fantastic,
And I mean there are four times. It's where my
people are from. Right of course, you got drink in Ireland?
Oh you know, right, I didn't. I guess what. I
wasn't tempted because I can't drink. I take a pill
(26:33):
if I drink i'll throw up. So thank god that's there,
because I don't think about drinking the alcoholic schemes and bargains, right,
schemes and bargains all the time, right all day.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Every question I have because I have my own food
addictions other things that what did the alcohol do for
you back then that you don't get a chance that
can't do for you now? And how are you replacing
it or or working through it?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
At its core, alcohol and all addiction is I don't
want to be here right now. I've got a trigger,
and I don't want to deal with face my problems.
And depends on how big your problems are. Most In
most cases problems can be dealt with, but we we
envision that it's harder to deal with put it off. Well,
(27:25):
we think it's hard to deal with. We still haven't
institutionalized an easy course of action to deal with anxiety
and depression or identify these things like that should be
the most important thing. Yeah, I mean, how do I
deal with how I'm when I'm out of place with
(27:46):
my feelings? That's where we just cover it up.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Most people I know are pretty in touch with their depression.
Oh yeah, they're very in touch with it. That's the
first thing out of their mouths when how you doing.
I'm pretty depressed, so pretty pretty strong. But that's not
that's not everyone, but certainly in my.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Life, some of it's chemical. Yeah for real.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I mean I'm trying all the time to do lots
of different things, including meditation and including sort of just uh, breathing,
other things that sort of oachinate yourself, make yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Breath always works, Yes, it does. There's the one there's
the one thing the body can't do without, right, is breath.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
But deep breathing. Really, it gives you your brain some
medicine it needs. Yes, it puts you back in touch
with your body.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yes. Uh, eckart Toole, you've read one of the best
things I ever heard from him. You don't own your children.
They're not yours. What well, that's right, They're not my kids.
They're people I created, right, But I don't own them.
We know their own person. My job was to witness
(28:53):
who they are and help them become that thing. Now
it was you know, too late when you hear he
says like.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
A fuck when I was on board. I was on
board from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, wait, on board, you know where where we're we
don't know what to do, or we try to control
them and put them in place and make you makes
you obey.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Right, Well that's he also had a lot of kids.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well, I know, but the thing is obey. No, it's
not right.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Who are you?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
What are you doing? Tell me what you're going through?
You know, let's work on this together. You can do it.
I believe in you. But nope, you're in trouble. That's
where I came from, right, you know, so.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Right, I try to. I try to. I'm not a
you're in troubled person. I have one kid. So it's Charmie,
Charlie Cogan.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I'm a Charlie. He's Charlie Kector.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, as you're Charlie as wonderful as mine. Yes, yes, fantastic.
Oh well, my son Target is getting into music. Oh fantastic. Okay,
he sings in Spanish. Where are the other kids getting
involved in the show business? Charlie wants to is doing
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
You know, it's tough because I really I tell him,
I said, I don't know how it's gonna last, son, Right,
I mean, we have.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
There's gonna be something. It's not gonna be alive, not
what we know, but it's gonna be something. The show
is this entertainment content is going to be something always.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, Yes, but not as we know it. And there's
not gonna be actors, probably not, maybe not. And people think, ah, bullshit,
it's already here. I think it's gone in two years,
maybe three. I used to say five. Yeah, it might
be sooner than that. And peoples, I would never watch AI.
You won't know it's AI.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
People already don't know you are watching AI and don't
know that you think that's a human.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I would never watch that. You won't give a shit.
Is going to be entertained, and they're gonna beautiful. Have
you seen that thing that goes up forever young? When
they show yes, right, and every every frame of the
the actor or actors they go through is better looking
in the AI version than they are in reallying this thing.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
If you haven't seen it, it's usually shows a person
either getting from becoming old to becoming young, or becoming
young to becoming old, and you get to see them
age and morph into the It's very interesting to me
when the person who makes it mismatches the person, the
young person and the old person are two different people,
and that happens all the time, is right, Yes, I'd like,
you know, Christopher Plumber, and then it turns into Gene
(31:15):
Hackman somehow, somehow, it's like, oh, you idiot, you did
it wrong, fucked it up. Yeah, they fucked it.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
But those versions are always better looking than the real person.
So what we want to look at are beautiful things.
They're gonna be beautiful AI.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Stock and trade of my that might exist. The reason
I'm here is because I'm beautiful. That is why people
pay big bucks.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
The human eye wants to see pretty things, and so
everyone's gonna be pretty in their own way.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Exponentially, it gets better and better and better.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
For sure, next contract, fuck you, Yeah, we're done. Maybe
they gave away a lot. This time, they gave you
a ton. Everyone's my hold, everyone's salaries fucked. Yes, you're
not making what you used to, right, they gave away
the store. They can do whatever. I shot a movie
for a very low price that's turned into a series
(32:04):
and I didn't get a series price. I made less
for the movie than I do for my my series.
Quote right right, yeah, okay, because that was the bargain,
or else we're just gonna go, hey, Iron, fuck yourself.
You know. Here's the here's the irony. All you executives
are gone to you dump you dumb fox, all the executives,
(32:26):
all the lawyers, everybody's gone.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Also the property that that studios own, Yeah, like big
movies and things. They're also going to be sucked up
into the AI and be reused and repurpose.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
There'll be apartments, yeah, exactly, So those studios won't exist.
They'll be gone. There's no reason.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
They're basically were hases anyway, that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
So anyway, I know that's a grim outlook, but uh,
you know, you either ride the tiger or get eating.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
But I'm saying even then, there's still going to be
a need for human content to be made.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Oh yeah, there will always be a preference like I
like this better. I don't know why. Fine, But once
they go, you like that, I'm gonna replicate it over here,
which is fine.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Don't be alone. I'm getting tired of superhero movies anyway. Like,
I don't care. I don't care about the fantastical that
AI makes so well and much easier. I care much
more about you know, and Neil Simon play.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
At first, it was fun. Yeah, I watched one last
week where rewatched one. It was the third installment of
a series, and all I could say is like, wow,
these actors are so fucking bored.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, it showed yeh.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
It like, well, you're you're, you're, you're, you're doing a disservice.
You showed up, and you paid it by numbers because
you weren't trying to figure it out. You I know,
I was gonna go do it. There was no investment.
It sucked. It's like, fuck you. All of it was lazy. Yeah,
it made one hundred million, two or half billion of right,
it's terrible.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Well, I mean it's I don't even blame the actor.
I just think the content itself is boring already. Like,
I get it. I I grew up comic books. I
love comic books. I love fantasy, love all this stuff.
It's like, I'm I'm done. I'm kind of done with it.
But I guess nobody who's our age should be interested
in it anyway. It's not for us.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Uh, well, it's because the global economy has overtook. Like
when's the last good movie comedy came out? There are
no there are no more.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Comedies naked Gun just came out. That's one. Okay, you
just asked me when next weekend?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Okay, you're right, Okay, you know the rest.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
One every weekend when they in this time and place
when people need comedy more than ever. It's really strange
that that doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I don't get it well because the studios only became
these global conglomerates, which you know, we've got anti trust
laws that get ignored. They shouldn't have been allowed to
merge into one thing after another and another another, and
then the the thing is, you have to have a
global hit, and comedies don't work around the globe.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
They have they have, But you're right, there were there
English language what comedies?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
What American comedies. I'm not talking about Bad Boys three,
that's that's an action comedy.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I think Austin Powers probably worked around the globe. I
can probably did something something.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Was it a global hit?
Speaker 1 (35:31):
You know?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Was it a global hit in the way that the
Marvel movies are no.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
And and things that are visual visual action things are
more global because they don't require language, right, so anything
that requires a translator.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So that's what killed in my opinion, that's what killed
the comedy like there's no A modest profit isn't acceptable. Right,
So that's the problem. So now we've gone down this
rabbit hole of what the doom of it all is.
All Right, we're in this town. I don't know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I'm an optimist. I'm still here. I'm still writing stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
No, No, we are lucky.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
No, I agree, we've had careers.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I think we'll survive.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I think there's more to come. I really do, because
I think there's also there's there's a hunger for for entertainment.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
There will be a place. But the thing is, how
do you do the production? Okay, that costs a lot
of money, right, so that's gonna be That's why it
goes to AI because it's free. Yeah, it's what it costs,
not free, but less. You don't you don't you don't
hire a crew.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Well, you find a way.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
If they thought Dave Kecker is going to come on here,
be funny that that's not what we got.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Sorry, nobody, nobody insists upon it.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Okay, but we like it.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
We like when you're finding are you best known for
your role in acrement? What's the thing that that.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
I think the office is surpassed and all right.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
And so so when people come out to see.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
You Packer, yeah, Packer and champkind that.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Fantastic, okay, And and and when you were doing both
those things, well, the office was already a big deal
when the time you were doing it, so you new.
But the Anchorman was like could have been good, could
have been bad? Like did you know at the time
Anchorman was gonna be fun?
Speaker 2 (37:07):
That was the greatest fucking thing I'd ever been part of.
When I was shocked that it didn't become a big hit.
There's a bunch of reasons for that. They dumped it
in August and didn't The tagline for the movie was
we go out and get the news so you don't
have to get it yourself. What the fuck is that that?
The studio didn't understand it. They didn't get it. They
didn't give a pushpine it. It made eighty four thousand
dollars the box office. The mark at that time has
(37:28):
to be one hundred million dollars to be a success.
It wasn't, so they just didn't give a shit. Then
it became popular on cable and DVD. Yeah, yeah, and
so then it became now it's this fucking legend. Yeah,
it's a cultural phenomenon. It is part of it's part
of the fabric of comedy. I see it everywhere, you
(37:48):
see it replicated in yeah a lot of ways. Yeah,
it's brilliant. So fortunate to be part of it.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
All Right, Well, now this is time for question time.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
A good is question.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Here's a question. What's Will Farrell really?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Like? What's Will Farrell really I always say this, He's
as good a person as you hope and better.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, and very funny, very very funny, very talented, and
very unique and authentic and original.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
And he's a guy like we were talking about earlier,
he's a guy who wants to do funny things. Yeah,
he wants to do funny things. He has the energy,
the will, and the creativity to do funny things.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah. A good human, A really good human. Fucking funny God, great,
damn it.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
That's good. Yeah, here's another question. What was your greatest
show business disappointment?
Speaker 2 (38:46):
The greatest disappointment would be being let go from Saray
Live after one year. And that was political, okay, because
I had pissed off two people. Because I don't I
don't suffer fools gladly, and I didn't know what was happening. Right.
I had a great season, as good at first season
as anybody on that show ever, and then there was
(39:07):
no reason not to bring you back. As politics. Two people,
and I've never said their names out loud, and I
want to. There's two of you, two of you, one
as a writer and one was a producer from Los Angeles.
All right, Okay, they know who they are, they know
and fuck them.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Fuck you coming to Saturn Live, which you said when
thirteen was a dream that you finally got to Saturn.
How did you feel when you got there?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Here's the thing. And when I got there, I thought
the show was dead because they're coming off of the
four ninety five season and it was bad and they
had lost their way, and I thought this probably be
the last year of the show. And everybody has a
six year contract, and I felt that people stayed too
(39:53):
long on that show, and I thought, you get a
six year contract. So I thought to myself, I'm going
to say three years and leave. The universe hears you, right,
They didn't hear three years. They heard I'm gonna leave.
I heard I'm gonna stay year and leave. Yeah, yeah,
rather than the other idea. Eric Zaclin told me, David,
find the target and hit it. I didn't know exactly
what that meant. It's stupid, but I should have thought,
(40:18):
I'm going to fucking be here in six years and
fucking slay for six years.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
That's what I should have said, right, And I could
have right. Yeah, here's what what do you get serious about?
We know, we know a lot of things, a lot
of things. Now, listener mail, Now it's time for listener man.
(40:43):
This is a question that came to me, not intended
for you, but we're gonna ask the both of us
this question. Yes, dear Jay and guest. In cases of
some mental health issues, the problem can be traced back
through two earlier generations. My father had a mental illness,
as did his mother, and some great great answer in
their generation before them also had My question is, if
(41:06):
you come from a background like this, what can you
do so that you don't fall victim to the same
issues that plague previous generations. How do you break the cycle?
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Well? Number one, identify it. I wonder what it is like.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
It may not be the same mental illness for all
these people that you're talking about. One may be a narcissist.
One may be psychotic, so yes, So figuring.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Out number one has to be identify the issue. That
might take some time.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Right, this question is being asked two guys. We're not
professional psychiatrists or psychologists, but just as a human being.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
So awareness and identification and then where and how has
is it detrimental to my life? Is it hurting other people?
How can I control this without medication number one? Or
how can I control it with medication? I check Eastern
philosophies and medicines and practices first, because in my opinion,
(41:57):
what we do is we treat a symptom in this country, right,
and like masket right, that doesn't deal with it.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Well, here's the thing, And it doesn't matter what your
ancestors did and had. You're all we we have this
jumble of DNA that comes to us that gives us
pluses and minuses. That's just the luck of the draw, right.
You just come to the party with what you're handed down.
It's what you do with it that matters. So if
what you do with it is fall victim to uh
(42:25):
some kind of mental illness, fix it, try to try
to address it. I'm imagining if your father had this
mental uh mental illness, and your his mother's mother did.
They may not have addressed it, they may not have
even known about it. They might just thought this is
this is what life is, and uh, we're hopefully smarter
and better that we don't have to do that, right.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I think identified accept it treated.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Okay, there you go. That's what that's the that's your answer, listener, listener, Holly,
good question.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Thank you for the question.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Now it's time for the moment of joy, a moment
of job. This is the thing now normally telling my
guests you can't have the moment of joy. Cannot be
your family or your work. But in your case, it
can also not be trying to make people laugh. You
(43:15):
can't be no. No, I want something else that's too
ingrained in you.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I have your answer, okay, A quiet mind?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Okay, and how do you get that quiet mind?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
How does I don't think meditation and journaling?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Okay, yeah, do you do journaling?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
You do it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Okay, breathing, I don't breath works, yeah, breath breathings, breathing,
But I mean quiet mind is great. I I you know,
do you ever put on ocean noises or I don't.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Sometimes it's just looking out your window or hearing is
stopping your brain for a second.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
There's a thing I wrote down from the Dalai Lama
because someone asked the Dalai Lama, how do you deal
with negativity? And he gave a.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Great answer, never write me again.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Well he said this one. Okay, self centered attitude is
the base of negative emotion. So I'm thinking about me, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
And then the way to cure it is realize nothing
exists as it appears. Now that's a riddle, a puzzle,
and an answer all in one.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I would have thought the answer would be if the
negative answer is think about me, the answer would be
thinking about you, or think about the world outside of you.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
This is even better, nothing exists as it appears. What's
that mean?
Speaker 1 (44:51):
That means I don't know. I don't know what reality is.
Reality is what you make of it.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
I don't know. It's an answer, a riddle, and all
in the one. So if I come and think about this,
if I'm thinking about myself right, and I can go
to this thing nothing exists as it appears. I'm not
thinking about me, right, I'm thinking about if I just
keep thinking about nothing exists as it appears. I can't
(45:18):
be in the past, present, or of a past or future.
I'm in the present. Nothing exists as it appears. Now
I can actually focus on you. Nothing exists as it
appears doesn't mean I'm already trying to think of my
answer before you're done talking. Nothing exists as it appears.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
I guess it. Probably the one thing that leads that
leads me to is constantly being in a state of
curiosity and trying to discovery, and that is a good
place to be. Almost always, it's just to be what
is happening? Who are these people? And how can I
understand it better?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
But what it tries to what I try to do
apply to this is being present. Yeah, without opinion, which
is impossible for me. I've got so many opinions that
might be annoying. That's just who I am. Blow hard.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I did not I did, couldn't tell that you had
these things. Yeah, so Keckner, Yes, what are you in lately?
And where can we reach you? Tell me about some
of the stuff.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
We've talked earlier about. There's not enough comedies being comedies
being made. I typically do about three or four independence
a year, and I never know where they're going to
come back. Last year I did four independent movies I
don't know, and they're going to be released. This year,
I've done three independent movies. I'm going to do another one.
Don't know when they're being released. So I continue to
stand up all over the country. So David Keckner koe
(46:34):
C h n E R on Instagram and TikTok and
also have website there all in the link trees. So
I'm probably coming to your city and I do stand
up and it is excellent, and you do.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
It with a bunch of guys. Yeah, often sometimes.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
A bunch of guys. I have an open tour with
Rob Mayer. Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Because he's got a really great Instagram account where I
see you guys are like pre show, post show, Yes,
wandering through in the rain. Yes, it's a lot of
fun to watch you.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
It's really fun to be at home in California watching
you the rains and so throughout the country. But that's
great and uh and you've been doing stand up for
a while and you're loving it. Yeah, yeah, that's you know,
it's live. There's nothing beats live. Yeah, unless it's a movie. Okay. Good,
So my fans, everybody should look out for the movies
that are coming out with David Keckner and then also
(47:25):
look for you to if you're going to go to
a county club, try to find David Keickner coming to
your town. All right, that's fantastic, doublass, David. I really
appreciate you coming.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
I really appreciate after great to see you again. A
hard tour. You dragged your ass in here. Really very
kind of you, really good, and thank you for being here.
That's my viewers, thanks for being here. Please feel free
to rate me at DBA wjk at gmail dot com.
If you have criticisms, it's okay, suggestions, fine, comments, compliments,
(47:55):
all of it good and like the show, share the show,
all that stuff, but mainly, sit in front of a
human being and have a conversation. That's what the whole
show is about. Sit in front of somebody and talk
with each other. It does you a world of good. Anyway,
we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Good job.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Don't be alone with j J. Cogain
Strawt Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, my name is David Keckner. You're watching and listening
to Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan, and I am
no longer alone.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Don't be Alone with jj Cogan. Hello, don't be a loners.
It's me Jake Cogan, and you're alone with me, and
it's all right. It's all good. Write to me at
dbaw JK with your comments and suggestions and criticisms and
compliments and listener questions for my guests. I need them.
(00:33):
I need them. I need life questions. I need big questions,
little questions, dumb questions, any kind of questions. Please write in.
They would really help. We have a wonderful show for
you today. A great comedian, actor, and a man of
many opinions is here, David Keckner. You might know him
from the office or from Anchorman. You'll also know him
(00:56):
from a million other things that he's done. The naked
Truck in t Bone and just being in the comedy
scene for the last I don't know, thirty five years.
It's incredible. He has a great story coming from Missouri
and going to Second City and coming out to Hollywood
to try and make it, and he did make it.
But the main thing we're going to be talking about. He,
(01:17):
like me, was known for doing anything for laugh. We
would do anything for laugh. We would embarrass ourselves. We
would get messy, we would get ridiculous, we would leave rooms,
we would fall on the floor, we would do physical things,
we would do mental things, whatever it took to get
a laugh. What's that about? At its heart? Why did
(01:37):
we crave that attention? Why do we need that attention?
Do we still need it? Isn't it embarrassing? Why we're
we embarrassed? What was going on? I used to think
we were just part of a club of people making
jokes and being funny. But then years later people told
me there is no club. That is not a club.
It's just somebody who needs attention or who wants to
be seen in a certain way. I think it's more
(01:59):
than that. I think it's better than that, but maybe not.
We'll talk about it, and who better to talk about
it then with the great David Keckner, And he'll be
here right after this. Don't be alone with j David Keckner. Yes, welcome,
Thank you. I really appreciate you doing this. Thanks for
(02:21):
having me. Uh, you know, I've known you for many years.
One time, many years ago, we did a pilot together.
You came and did a pilot for me, and you
were hysterical. Which one was It was, you're gonna test
my memory?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
My friend David Steinberg directed, could be yes, and that
could be too Dave Pholey. So we're talking twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, that's uh, that's yeah. So it's a wild yeah.
But anyway, and then there's been other run ins with you,
dot ones, good ones, no fights, no fights, uh, and uh,
you know, I was just saying, as you're sitting down there,
you were gonna you walked in and you were gonna
do a bit. You're gonna throw the tooth beace, where's
a toothpick?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Where can it was a plastic thing which I haint.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Where can I throw it?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Where?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Where's the trash can? And you said, in the olden days,
you would have just tossed it on the floor as
a joke and not say anything, not say anything because
because it's funny, and we know, I know you're a
human being, you're not a monster, and you wouldn't just
throw trash on the floor. So therefore it's a joke.
So we live in an age where that's the intention
is not always clear. That I mentioned, you get tired
(03:28):
of your old jokes, and we get tired of our
own jokes, and we get tired of the energy it takes,
the energy it takes a joke. So like years ago,
I would do a joke where I would do say,
somebody would say something innocuous, and I would act seriously
offend it and run out of the room, often to
my car, and often drive away. If the car was
in view of the people, I would drive away. It's
(03:50):
a funny joke, it's really funny. It takes an enormous
amount of effort and time, and I'm really preventing something
else from happening, actual interaction.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Right because we're trying to challenge our own performance anxiety,
and test the boundaries of what were courageous enough to do?
How outlandish, creative, original, all that stuff memorable. But then
(04:22):
it takes us a long time, many years for me
to realize the cost it put on them. Yeah, they're like,
oh fuck.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, the hope is it's giving them joy, it's giving
them a story, it's giving them fun. And then we're
usually doing with other jokesters.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Of course, you wouldn't do it to a non player, right, Yeah,
so we're.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Doing for other people so they get there. They're in
the game too, Yes, so it's not it's not just
a toll on them.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
No. No, I've talked about myself. I've been exhausting for
years and I couldn't help. But probably is almost spectrum
like in that. But I always I look back at
it now as constantly sharpening my blade. If you're in
front of you an audience, and that's the thing, how
can I it's practice? I think it became maybe that's
(05:14):
the only way I can view it now. It was
like I was trying to.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
But it's not practice exactly, because it's that counts.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Why it counts.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
We're doing something and we're making a joke with each other.
That counts as much as it counts on camera or
not on camera on stage.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Right, But even if those persons aren't performers, that's a difference. Yeah,
it wouldn't matter where it is. I'm always doing making
everyone an audience, which can be exhausting for your family.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Or the people with which leads me to the question
I want to ask you, which is I sent you
this question in advance every show, somebody smart like you
helps me with my problem and this week the problem
is why do we do it?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Like?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
What is it about the that's in our makeup that
made us say, oh, we need this attention, We need
to be the center of attention. We need to make
people laugh. What's what's? What do we get?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
All those things that you had outlined in that email
are true? No, because we take them as I believe
how we may be thinking about how that punishes those
around us. Right, our behavior to them is potentially exhausting,
(06:31):
we think, right.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I don't never think that. I think it's a gift
because I like it people.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I agree. But when you though you would, you had
framed it, you said, is it insecurity? Is it what else?
What else? Was it?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Security? Desperate for approval.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Desperation, all that stuff. Yes we can look at it
that way. Yes others can look at that way, but really,
what does it bring you? One word? Yeah? Joy?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Well that's true.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So that's why you do it, And that's true.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I think that's true. I want to impress people. Let
me go deeper. I understand that I want to impress people.
I wanted to make them laugh, but I want to
make I wanted to impress them by making them last. Right, Okay,
so it's like that's it's not just if I was anonymous,
if I could whisper in someone else's ear, do this
bit and you'll get a big laugh. I don't think
(07:25):
I would like that nearly as much as me doing
it of course. All right, well, but that's it's not
just the joy for bringing other people joy. That's the difference.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I agree, you and I know we're splitting hairs and
we're getting into a semantical argument in a way philosophical, right,
I think if we can easily look at it like
I'm the third of six, Okay, I needed attention, right.
My mother had won two three kids in three years
by the time she got to me, and I was
a lot. I still am exhausting, right, I mean she
(07:56):
must have. Can I curse on the show? Who the
fuck are you you?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Now?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
My older brother had had an illness very early. He
got very sick, and so they're very We're in central Missouri,
so we don't have the greatest care. She was very
worried about him as to they didn't think he was
just survive. He's fine now, just find now that's a
long illness no, no, no, I got no no, no.
(08:21):
He was fine. But the worry at the time of
her first born, oh my god, that was a focus.
And then she kept having more kids. My father was
working in a new business. He was a manufacturer, and
so that house was just busy and exhausting, and she
was away from her family. She'd been taken away from
this family of loving kids and transplanted into this small
(08:44):
town where she didn't know anybody and didn't particularly care
for them. So I was not necessarily a priority, right,
And I think by that time we go, the kids
will take it. You know, what can you do? It's
a different time, so I I'll be honest. I didn't
get what I needed. So then you create in a
(09:05):
way your own satisfaction, right one way or the other. Right.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So, if you're craving attention, you found a way to
get attention, right, Okay, But then you could get the attention.
I guess here there we are. Those are these two
ideas meet?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Uh. You get the attention by giving bringing joy to others.
You make other people laugh, right, You've always made other
people laugh, haven't you.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I'm a very young I have attempted to always make
people Okay, it's not always been successful, but most of
the time.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So you've had a very long career in this ain't
an easy place to get to. So you've found that
by giving other people joy, you also got what you
needed was joy and attention. Now we can look at
what we call the negative aspect of that, that it's
some deep seated psychological thing. Is because I feel empty? Fine, okay,
(09:59):
all right. It's also a form of control. Say more
about that, and control? How controlling the room for comics.
We're controlling the room right from me, right you, I'm
going to make you laugh me. I'm controlling the room.
I'm getting the response from you that I want.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
What happens when you lose control of the room, when
a heckler or somebody you know, and something in the
audience happens that sort of brings the attention over there.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Everybody deals with it in a different way. Yeah, I
have five kids. I deal with it in what I
try to believe is a fatherly matter, like who's talking?
Who's talking? For really, I try not to get mad,
like I'm like, I'm sorry, who's talking? Hey? Hey, hey, hey,
(10:48):
you can't talk? Now, that's the fucking club's job, right.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Right, But that doesn't always they're not always people there.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
To do it. Now, the person that's talking to the
two reasons, they're either drum or they're a narcissist because
they're like that person's getting the attention. I'm gonna talk
over here, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Now.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
There's also a third component, which is everyone's used to
watching TV at home, so you just talk.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I think they've been socialized to say talking to TV
or talk during things, and.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Okay, but people don't talk during church all right, yeah,
so we know, you know, but they're funny. It would
be funny too, like no, no, you're not, you're here,
you do this. So there's another component because a lot
of the things that people see on social media is
crowd work, because crowd work gets views. So people that
(11:40):
have never been to our comedy club think all shows
are crowd work.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Well, so you're not giving up your act if you
put the crowd work on the on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
That's this fucking idea.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
That's true. Like, Okay, the more exposed a joke is,
the less the audience wants to hear.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
But write another one, right, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
If you're constantly writing new stuff all the time, then sure,
But I mean people are trying to often, at least
in the old days, I don't know if anymore, they
were trying to build half hour hour specials, and they
wanted those jokes to remain I.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Think I hear that. I believe that's a false premise,
Like you got to be so protective of this stuff.
You know they're grateful dead gave it away, that's true.
You want more people to know your jokes right, right?
And that's the point.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Did you find it hard because you weren't a stand
up comedian? You became a stand up comedian after years.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
After I had my fifth kid, exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's why I did it all right, Necessity dictated, because
so you how did you become How did you generate
that material?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Improvisation? So I started, I started Second City and the
Improbalympic in Chicago in nineteen eighty seven, and so an improvisation,
I did long form improvis that's my camera. I did
long form improvisation, which is your camera. You uh, long
form improvisation. And I know you know this, but I'm
gonna say this for our audience. You get a suggestion,
(13:07):
and you've got a group of between five to seven
people on your team, your group, and then you create
something based on a suggestion. There's it's not rehearsed, it's
not planned. It is a format that we all adhere
to and we play within. And the better we're playing
(13:27):
within this format. It's almost like here's the rules of
the football game. And so now you have plays. Now
you don't have you don't have you have plays in theory, right,
you don't have scripted plays. So I'm trying to make
this metaphor digestible. So we all know we're going to
go out there. But you're creating from nothing, as you
(13:50):
well know. So the scene is microphone, right, You can
do anything with that idea of microphone. Right. A microphone amplifies, right,
But you can also choose I can't hear you, right, right,
And that's the simplest game.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And in long form improv, it's not always your choice.
It's the choice somebody else just made that you're jomping on.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Then I support, yeah, yes, So anyway, that's how you
start creating from literally nothing. So after a while, really
you just have this ability to be always creating on stage.
It's the approach to creation.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So what I.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Did, just I'll tell you real quick. So I started
doing improv and sketch from the very beginning, which was
a great way to become a comic because you're just
always creating on stage every night of the week. And
so I the reason I started doing stand up I
had five killed children, and I had a good career.
But you know, I'm not stupid. We all know there
(14:50):
could be you know, follow times, and so I decided
when I had my fifth kid, I said, you know what,
I'm going to do a standard because I never want
to be dependent on somebody else to give me a job.
I never want to be out of a job. So
I started doing stand up then, and we're living in
La So the way you do that is you developed
(15:12):
three four, five minutes at a time. You start doing
just spots fifteen minutes all over town. And I did
that and I slowly built it, and I look back
then it is more more like a one man show
doing a bunch of characters. Very interesting, and over time
you just find more bits like oh, there's a thing
that I know, and talking to the audience tells you
what they agree with. Right, You're like, oh, right, there's
(15:34):
a little vein of comedy there. So that's how I
developed it and did it.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Don't be alone. I love improv and I think the
improv is what made me a writer. Yes, and it's
also it didn't make me a great actor. I don't
think it made me a great actor. Maybe I am a
better writer, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, what do you think acting is different than improv?
Improv is, yes, and find the agreement. Acting is find
the drama. Okay. Yeah, if you say you're mad at me,
I said, well you should be mad at me. No,
you're mad at me for what. That's a stronger scene
(16:28):
in a drama scripted an improvisation, you say you're mad
at me, like, well you should be mad at me.
I'm been trying to piss you off for days. Comedy, Yeah,
but in drama, I'm mad at you for what. You
think I did something wrong? You did something wrong. That's
completely different. It doesn't make you a better actor. It
gives you a better stage presence. It gives you your
(16:50):
stage balance, your feet, your bravery, all that stuff to
go out and do that your performance chops. So you
can use that here and use that improvisation in acting,
because you can say Okay, I'm mad at this person.
I can now create an idea of like I'm so fucked.
(17:10):
You can go off script in your head, not not
in your rehearsal right, and use that.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah. Yeah, I would say that that the tenants that
improv makes you comfortable on stage, makes it comfortable with failure,
like you're comfortable with like it makes you a better performer.
It does not. The acting part is interesting. Better actors
and people who come from improv become good actors learn
to do less. They learn to take it in the
(17:36):
more interior. You know, everything's not showing, it's about it's
harder to do, yeah, to make that transition. Yeah, yeah,
And that's why you know I'm still to this day
not a great actor.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Well, it's hard, it's counterintuitive to what is the best
of us.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Right, But still to this day we're still doing what
we were doing when we're as kids. It's still it's
still getting up in front of people and it's still
getting their attention, right, And so I haven't even though
we're more mature, we don't have to do the biggest
bit to get the laugh. It's still in me and
I'm not and I'm not I'm havn't grown out of
(18:12):
the idea that if there's a joke opportunity, take the
joke opportunity. Now, I think someday when I see the
joke opportunity and going yeah, no, I'm not interested, that
will be a real difference. I don't know if it's
better or worse, but it'll be a real difference.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
It's tough because you know, it punishes my kids.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Dad, right, don't Yeah, But also they laugh anyway, Yes,
they make they hate themselves for laughing and Dad's joke
that they didn't want to laugh about in the first place.
But it's the best part exactly. That's why my kid
does the same thing. It's like you stop and then
get them to laugh. It's fantastic, right, but it's it's uh.
I I'm also very loud and I don't know it. Oh, yes,
(18:52):
I'll be on the phone. Can I just affirm that
you're very loud?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yes, for sure?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
On the phone? Am I allowed today?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
No? No, I just in life. You're a loud personally.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Loud, and I don't know it. My family's loud, and
I'm not loud to try to get attention, right, I'm
just loud. I came from a family of six. I
noticed a couple of years ago, because god, why am
I so lowed? I was at my my siblings place
in Kansas City, and we're all there, and oh my god,
oh my god, everybody's talking at volume. Well, there you go.
(19:28):
It wasn't me and my my uncles would be here.
Here's how my uncles talked.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And they all talked over each other, and there's all
this and this and this.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Did you get Did you get positive attention from your
brothers and sisters when you were funny?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah? Okay? Your parents, yeah, they didn't understand me at all. Okay, No,
I'm very different than my family. My father's a hard worker.
I had to work since I was seven years old.
I've never been unemployed. I regret I resented it. It's
not what I wanted to do. They didn't understand who
(20:03):
I was. Look, I'm an artist and they've not met one.
I didn't know what that was. I just knew I
had to do something different. I knew at thirty. I
knew at ten years old I'm leaving.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
When did you decide I'm leaving here to go to
two place?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
At ten? I decided I'm leaving at thirteen, nineteen seventy
five Saturday, and Life came on. And I know my
parents are very conservative and not in other politics, but
in terms of like what we could watch, and I
knew SNL is coming on. If you remember they did
live promos, do you remember that.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I don't really remember the live promos.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
They did live promos. I might be older than you.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I think we're the same age.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Okay, I'm sixty two, almost sixty three.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I'm almost sixty two.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Okay, So Chevy Chase did live promos doing mumblety peg.
You know what mumbley peg is? Yeah, So for those
the uninitiated, mumblety peg is if you take a knife
and do this, but if you practice enough, you can
do it without really fast. So a knife goes from
here to there to hear, to hear to there to hear.
And he did, mum, what the I'm like what? This
was exciting? It's could be live that that hadn't happened
(21:07):
on television for many years, and it was comedy like
this is interesting and weird and different. So I didn't
say a word and I used to have to babysit
my younger brothers and sisters, the three of them. So
my parents would go out dancing every Saturday night. And
I knew Satay Live was going to come on and
I was going to watch it. And I watched it
and I was like, oh my god, what is this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
That was great?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
This great.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I was baby. I was babysitting the first night I.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Saw Will and so I decided, then I'm going to
be on that show. When I was thirteen in Timpton, Missouri,
and I didn't tell anyone because you don't tell people
in small towns your dreams.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So when did you get a chance to leave and start?
Where did you go to college?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I went to college at Benedictine College in Adchison, Kansas,
because I had to. My parents are very Catholic and
it's a small Catholic college that my uncle was the
abbot of the monastery. My mother's family had eleven kids.
Out of those eleven kids, two priests, two nuns. To
say we're Catholic, barely touches so very Catholic, so we
(22:06):
had to go there.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, what is that? I mean, that's interesting tradition, Like
usually the best of the family goes into the into
the priest like the very best.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Well, my my my mother's family is very poor, right,
so that's how they went. They could have They're bright
enough that probably could have gotten some type of scholarship.
I don't know, but you know that was the that
was that was free, right, you know, you pledge to
that thing, which to me, I just I still can't
wrap my head around it. It's it's it's unnatural.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I mean, it's it's natural in that society is saying
this is how we do it, and so that's that's unnatural.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It's unnatural, and it's untenable. It doesn't work. It's it's
a it's a false expectation that a person can remain
a human being can remain celibate.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I imagine some people have done it.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
By their own choice now by this decree. It's unnatural, right, Uh,
And it caused quite a bit of problems. It still does.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Sure. I'm always interested in trying to find something that
taps into my own spirituality and sort of can raise
me up. And it's very hard to find, since I'm
not a believer in any particular thing. But I'm trying
to sort of like, you know, figure out what because
there's a spiritual side of human beings and we want
to be raised up. And it's not just by you know,
(23:28):
spilling coffee on myself or something. You know that.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Although I could argue that there is something spiritual, I
agree there's something that is the spiritual.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
There's something giving and taking it, something l uplifting. I agree.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
That is our religion. Yeah, comedy is our religion.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I mean maybe you're right.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
It is. It's our fucking religion. Maybe. And it's guess what,
it's fucking freedom and joy. Yeah, that's a good god
damn religion, freedom and joy.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Like I mean if if people come into a comedy
club and they laugh for an hour, right, is how
is that compared to people going into another room and
being preached at and told they're wrong or they're going
to go to hell for an hour? Yeah, I mean
that's what's That's what's going to make you feel better.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That's a bad sermon. That's a bad sermon. There are
good sermons. I've sat through some good sermons, but yeah,
that's what's a good sermon. A good sermon to someone
is something that poses a question that means something to
you and starts talking about it in a way that
helps you sort of understand yourself and your world a
little bit better. Aren't supposed to tell you the same thing.
Aren't supposed to lift you up. Are supposed to tap
(24:33):
into some part of you that really needs to be
tapped into.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
And who has to have an emotional resonance, right that
soothes and satisfies me, that spirituality where I'm like on
that vibrational level with that thing, in communion with it,
and I feel better about myself. I feel it's it's
we see all the stuff on Instagram now about vibration,
(24:57):
and that's where the good stuff is, right right, right,
that vibration. So to go into a room where that
vibration is dampened.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right, let me ask you something more less global and
more personal. A few years ago, you had a little
run in with the dui.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yes, I've had two. Okay, I got two DUIs in
six months? All right?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
How did that change your life?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well? I had to stop drinking, all right. Well, Plus,
I don't know how it's impacted my viability in show business.
I'm sure it made people question it. I can't imagine
it did, and I just assume it did. Maybe, but
so so many it's not. Substance abuse has never been
a disqualifier for working. You know, you know, if you're
popular and you can sell tickets.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
But there's a stain. Yeah, I get it, But how
did you bring yourself out? It's easy to say I
got to stop drinking, but it's hard to do. It.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Took a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went
to rehab three times. Rehab doesn't work. Yeah. It rehab
cleaned you up for a month. Then you had to
get in the program. You had to get an AAA.
I also take the sulfree, which is antibuse. Okay, that
keeps me from it. I don't even think about drinking.
It's not an option, all right, it's not an option,
like I don't think of I just got back from Ireland, right, okay, Ireland,
(26:12):
my people, your people show got this tattoo in Ireland. Okay,
all my kids and I we all got tattoos. Fantastic,
And I mean there are four times. It's where my
people are from. Right of course, you got drink in Ireland?
Oh you know, right, I didn't. I guess what. I
wasn't tempted because I can't drink. I take a pill
(26:33):
if I drink i'll throw up. So thank god that's there,
because I don't think about drinking the alcoholic schemes and bargains, right,
schemes and bargains all the time, right all day.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Every question I have because I have my own food
addictions other things that what did the alcohol do for
you back then that you don't get a chance that
can't do for you now? And how are you replacing
it or or working through it?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
At its core, alcohol and all addiction is I don't
want to be here right now. I've got a trigger,
and I don't want to deal with face my problems.
And depends on how big your problems are. Most In
most cases problems can be dealt with, but we we
envision that it's harder to deal with put it off. Well,
(27:25):
we think it's hard to deal with. We still haven't
institutionalized an easy course of action to deal with anxiety
and depression or identify these things like that should be
the most important thing. Yeah, I mean, how do I
deal with how I'm when I'm out of place with
(27:46):
my feelings? That's where we just cover it up.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Most people I know are pretty in touch with their depression.
Oh yeah, they're very in touch with it. That's the
first thing out of their mouths when how you doing.
I'm pretty depressed, so pretty pretty strong. But that's not
that's not everyone, but certainly in my.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Life, some of it's chemical. Yeah for real.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I mean I'm trying all the time to do lots
of different things, including meditation and including sort of just uh, breathing,
other things that sort of oachinate yourself, make yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Breath always works, Yes, it does. There's the one there's
the one thing the body can't do without, right, is breath.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
But deep breathing. Really, it gives you your brain some
medicine it needs. Yes, it puts you back in touch
with your body.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yes. Uh, eckart Toole, you've read one of the best
things I ever heard from him. You don't own your children.
They're not yours. What well, that's right, They're not my kids.
They're people I created, right, But I don't own them.
We know their own person. My job was to witness
(28:53):
who they are and help them become that thing. Now
it was you know, too late when you hear he
says like.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
A fuck when I was on board. I was on
board from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, wait, on board, you know where where we're we
don't know what to do, or we try to control
them and put them in place and make you makes
you obey.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Right, Well that's he also had a lot of kids.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well, I know, but the thing is obey. No, it's
not right.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Who are you?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
What are you doing? Tell me what you're going through?
You know, let's work on this together. You can do it.
I believe in you. But nope, you're in trouble. That's
where I came from, right, you know, so.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Right, I try to. I try to. I'm not a
you're in troubled person. I have one kid. So it's Charmie,
Charlie Cogan.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I'm a Charlie. He's Charlie Kector.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, as you're Charlie as wonderful as mine. Yes, yes, fantastic.
Oh well, my son Target is getting into music. Oh fantastic. Okay,
he sings in Spanish. Where are the other kids getting
involved in the show business? Charlie wants to is doing
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
You know, it's tough because I really I tell him,
I said, I don't know how it's gonna last, son, Right,
I mean, we have.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
There's gonna be something. It's not gonna be alive, not
what we know, but it's gonna be something. The show
is this entertainment content is going to be something always.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, Yes, but not as we know it. And there's
not gonna be actors, probably not, maybe not. And people think, ah, bullshit,
it's already here. I think it's gone in two years,
maybe three. I used to say five. Yeah, it might
be sooner than that. And peoples, I would never watch AI.
You won't know it's AI.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
People already don't know you are watching AI and don't
know that you think that's a human.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I would never watch that. You won't give a shit.
Is going to be entertained, and they're gonna beautiful. Have
you seen that thing that goes up forever young? When
they show yes, right, and every every frame of the
the actor or actors they go through is better looking
in the AI version than they are in reallying this thing.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
If you haven't seen it, it's usually shows a person
either getting from becoming old to becoming young, or becoming
young to becoming old, and you get to see them
age and morph into the It's very interesting to me
when the person who makes it mismatches the person, the
young person and the old person are two different people,
and that happens all the time, is right, Yes, I'd like,
you know, Christopher Plumber, and then it turns into Gene
(31:15):
Hackman somehow, somehow, it's like, oh, you idiot, you did
it wrong, fucked it up. Yeah, they fucked it.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
But those versions are always better looking than the real person.
So what we want to look at are beautiful things.
They're gonna be beautiful AI.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Stock and trade of my that might exist. The reason
I'm here is because I'm beautiful. That is why people
pay big bucks.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
The human eye wants to see pretty things, and so
everyone's gonna be pretty in their own way.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Exponentially, it gets better and better and better.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
For sure, next contract, fuck you, Yeah, we're done. Maybe
they gave away a lot. This time, they gave you
a ton. Everyone's my hold, everyone's salaries fucked. Yes, you're
not making what you used to, right, they gave away
the store. They can do whatever. I shot a movie
for a very low price that's turned into a series
(32:04):
and I didn't get a series price. I made less
for the movie than I do for my my series.
Quote right right, yeah, okay, because that was the bargain,
or else we're just gonna go, hey, Iron, fuck yourself.
You know. Here's the here's the irony. All you executives
are gone to you dump you dumb fox, all the executives,
(32:26):
all the lawyers, everybody's gone.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Also the property that that studios own, Yeah, like big
movies and things. They're also going to be sucked up
into the AI and be reused and repurpose.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
There'll be apartments, yeah, exactly, So those studios won't exist.
They'll be gone. There's no reason.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
They're basically were hases anyway, that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
So anyway, I know that's a grim outlook, but uh,
you know, you either ride the tiger or get eating.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
But I'm saying even then, there's still going to be
a need for human content to be made.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Oh yeah, there will always be a preference like I
like this better. I don't know why. Fine, But once
they go, you like that, I'm gonna replicate it over here,
which is fine.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Don't be alone. I'm getting tired of superhero movies anyway. Like,
I don't care. I don't care about the fantastical that
AI makes so well and much easier. I care much
more about you know, and Neil Simon play.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
At first, it was fun. Yeah, I watched one last
week where rewatched one. It was the third installment of
a series, and all I could say is like, wow,
these actors are so fucking bored.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, it showed yeh.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
It like, well, you're you're, you're, you're, you're doing a disservice.
You showed up, and you paid it by numbers because
you weren't trying to figure it out. You I know,
I was gonna go do it. There was no investment.
It sucked. It's like, fuck you. All of it was lazy. Yeah,
it made one hundred million, two or half billion of right,
it's terrible.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Well, I mean it's I don't even blame the actor.
I just think the content itself is boring already. Like,
I get it. I I grew up comic books. I
love comic books. I love fantasy, love all this stuff.
It's like, I'm I'm done. I'm kind of done with it.
But I guess nobody who's our age should be interested
in it anyway. It's not for us.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Uh, well, it's because the global economy has overtook. Like
when's the last good movie comedy came out? There are
no there are no more.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Comedies naked Gun just came out. That's one. Okay, you
just asked me when next weekend?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Okay, you're right, Okay, you know the rest.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
One every weekend when they in this time and place
when people need comedy more than ever. It's really strange
that that doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I don't get it well because the studios only became
these global conglomerates, which you know, we've got anti trust
laws that get ignored. They shouldn't have been allowed to
merge into one thing after another and another another, and
then the the thing is, you have to have a
global hit, and comedies don't work around the globe.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
They have they have, But you're right, there were there
English language what comedies?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
What American comedies. I'm not talking about Bad Boys three,
that's that's an action comedy.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I think Austin Powers probably worked around the globe. I
can probably did something something.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Was it a global hit?
Speaker 1 (35:31):
You know?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Was it a global hit in the way that the
Marvel movies are no.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
And and things that are visual visual action things are
more global because they don't require language, right, so anything
that requires a translator.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So that's what killed in my opinion, that's what killed
the comedy like there's no A modest profit isn't acceptable. Right,
So that's the problem. So now we've gone down this
rabbit hole of what the doom of it all is.
All Right, we're in this town. I don't know what's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I'm an optimist. I'm still here. I'm still writing stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
No, No, we are lucky.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
No, I agree, we've had careers.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I think we'll survive.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I think there's more to come. I really do, because
I think there's also there's there's a hunger for for entertainment.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
There will be a place. But the thing is, how
do you do the production? Okay, that costs a lot
of money, right, so that's gonna be That's why it
goes to AI because it's free. Yeah, it's what it costs,
not free, but less. You don't you don't you don't
hire a crew.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Well, you find a way.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
If they thought Dave Kecker is going to come on here,
be funny that that's not what we got.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Sorry, nobody, nobody insists upon it.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Okay, but we like it.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
We like when you're finding are you best known for
your role in acrement? What's the thing that that.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
I think the office is surpassed and all right.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
And so so when people come out to see.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
You Packer, yeah, Packer and champkind that.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Fantastic, okay, And and and when you were doing both
those things, well, the office was already a big deal
when the time you were doing it, so you new.
But the Anchorman was like could have been good, could
have been bad? Like did you know at the time
Anchorman was gonna be fun?
Speaker 2 (37:07):
That was the greatest fucking thing I'd ever been part of.
When I was shocked that it didn't become a big hit.
There's a bunch of reasons for that. They dumped it
in August and didn't The tagline for the movie was
we go out and get the news so you don't
have to get it yourself. What the fuck is that that?
The studio didn't understand it. They didn't get it. They
didn't give a pushpine it. It made eighty four thousand
dollars the box office. The mark at that time has
(37:28):
to be one hundred million dollars to be a success.
It wasn't, so they just didn't give a shit. Then
it became popular on cable and DVD. Yeah, yeah, and
so then it became now it's this fucking legend. Yeah,
it's a cultural phenomenon. It is part of it's part
of the fabric of comedy. I see it everywhere, you
(37:48):
see it replicated in yeah a lot of ways. Yeah,
it's brilliant. So fortunate to be part of it.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
All Right, Well, now this is time for question time.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
A good is question.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Here's a question. What's Will Farrell really?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Like? What's Will Farrell really I always say this, He's
as good a person as you hope and better.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, and very funny, very very funny, very talented, and
very unique and authentic and original.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
And he's a guy like we were talking about earlier,
he's a guy who wants to do funny things. Yeah,
he wants to do funny things. He has the energy,
the will, and the creativity to do funny things.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah. A good human, A really good human. Fucking funny God, great,
damn it.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
That's good. Yeah, here's another question. What was your greatest
show business disappointment?
Speaker 2 (38:46):
The greatest disappointment would be being let go from Saray
Live after one year. And that was political, okay, because
I had pissed off two people. Because I don't I
don't suffer fools gladly, and I didn't know what was happening. Right.
I had a great season, as good at first season
as anybody on that show ever, and then there was
(39:07):
no reason not to bring you back. As politics. Two people,
and I've never said their names out loud, and I
want to. There's two of you, two of you, one
as a writer and one was a producer from Los Angeles.
All right, Okay, they know who they are, they know
and fuck them.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Fuck you coming to Saturn Live, which you said when
thirteen was a dream that you finally got to Saturn.
How did you feel when you got there?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Here's the thing. And when I got there, I thought
the show was dead because they're coming off of the
four ninety five season and it was bad and they
had lost their way, and I thought this probably be
the last year of the show. And everybody has a
six year contract, and I felt that people stayed too
(39:53):
long on that show, and I thought, you get a
six year contract. So I thought to myself, I'm going
to say three years and leave. The universe hears you, right,
They didn't hear three years. They heard I'm gonna leave.
I heard I'm gonna stay year and leave. Yeah, yeah,
rather than the other idea. Eric Zaclin told me, David,
find the target and hit it. I didn't know exactly
what that meant. It's stupid, but I should have thought,
(40:18):
I'm going to fucking be here in six years and
fucking slay for six years.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
That's what I should have said, right, And I could
have right. Yeah, here's what what do you get serious about?
We know, we know a lot of things, a lot
of things. Now, listener mail, Now it's time for listener man.
(40:43):
This is a question that came to me, not intended
for you, but we're gonna ask the both of us
this question. Yes, dear Jay and guest. In cases of
some mental health issues, the problem can be traced back
through two earlier generations. My father had a mental illness,
as did his mother, and some great great answer in
their generation before them also had My question is, if
(41:06):
you come from a background like this, what can you
do so that you don't fall victim to the same
issues that plague previous generations. How do you break the cycle?
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Well? Number one, identify it. I wonder what it is like.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
It may not be the same mental illness for all
these people that you're talking about. One may be a narcissist.
One may be psychotic, so yes, So figuring.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Out number one has to be identify the issue. That
might take some time.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Right, this question is being asked two guys. We're not
professional psychiatrists or psychologists, but just as a human being.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
So awareness and identification and then where and how has
is it detrimental to my life? Is it hurting other people?
How can I control this without medication number one? Or
how can I control it with medication? I check Eastern
philosophies and medicines and practices first, because in my opinion,
(41:57):
what we do is we treat a symptom in this country, right,
and like masket right, that doesn't deal with it.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Well, here's the thing, And it doesn't matter what your
ancestors did and had. You're all we we have this
jumble of DNA that comes to us that gives us
pluses and minuses. That's just the luck of the draw, right.
You just come to the party with what you're handed down.
It's what you do with it that matters. So if
what you do with it is fall victim to uh
(42:25):
some kind of mental illness, fix it, try to try
to address it. I'm imagining if your father had this
mental uh mental illness, and your his mother's mother did.
They may not have addressed it, they may not have
even known about it. They might just thought this is
this is what life is, and uh, we're hopefully smarter
and better that we don't have to do that, right.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I think identified accept it treated.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Okay, there you go. That's what that's the that's your answer, listener, listener, Holly,
good question.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Thank you for the question.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Now it's time for the moment of joy, a moment
of job. This is the thing now normally telling my
guests you can't have the moment of joy. Cannot be
your family or your work. But in your case, it
can also not be trying to make people laugh. You
(43:15):
can't be no. No, I want something else that's too
ingrained in you.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I have your answer, okay, A quiet mind?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Okay, and how do you get that quiet mind?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
How does I don't think meditation and journaling?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Okay, yeah, do you do journaling?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
You do it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Okay, breathing, I don't breath works, yeah, breath breathings, breathing,
But I mean quiet mind is great. I I you know,
do you ever put on ocean noises or I don't.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Sometimes it's just looking out your window or hearing is
stopping your brain for a second.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
There's a thing I wrote down from the Dalai Lama
because someone asked the Dalai Lama, how do you deal
with negativity? And he gave a.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Great answer, never write me again.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Well he said this one. Okay, self centered attitude is
the base of negative emotion. So I'm thinking about me, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
And then the way to cure it is realize nothing
exists as it appears. Now that's a riddle, a puzzle,
and an answer all in one.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I would have thought the answer would be if the
negative answer is think about me, the answer would be
thinking about you, or think about the world outside of you.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
This is even better, nothing exists as it appears. What's
that mean?
Speaker 1 (44:51):
That means I don't know. I don't know what reality is.
Reality is what you make of it.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
I don't know. It's an answer, a riddle, and all
in the one. So if I come and think about this,
if I'm thinking about myself right, and I can go
to this thing nothing exists as it appears. I'm not
thinking about me, right, I'm thinking about if I just
keep thinking about nothing exists as it appears. I can't
(45:18):
be in the past, present, or of a past or future.
I'm in the present. Nothing exists as it appears. Now
I can actually focus on you. Nothing exists as it
appears doesn't mean I'm already trying to think of my
answer before you're done talking. Nothing exists as it appears.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
I guess it. Probably the one thing that leads that
leads me to is constantly being in a state of
curiosity and trying to discovery, and that is a good
place to be. Almost always, it's just to be what
is happening? Who are these people? And how can I
understand it better?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
But what it tries to what I try to do
apply to this is being present. Yeah, without opinion, which
is impossible for me. I've got so many opinions that
might be annoying. That's just who I am. Blow hard.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I did not I did, couldn't tell that you had
these things. Yeah, so Keckner, Yes, what are you in lately?
And where can we reach you? Tell me about some
of the stuff.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
We've talked earlier about. There's not enough comedies being comedies
being made. I typically do about three or four independence
a year, and I never know where they're going to
come back. Last year I did four independent movies I
don't know, and they're going to be released. This year,
I've done three independent movies. I'm going to do another one.
Don't know when they're being released. So I continue to
stand up all over the country. So David Keckner koe
(46:34):
C h n E R on Instagram and TikTok and
also have website there all in the link trees. So
I'm probably coming to your city and I do stand
up and it is excellent, and you do.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
It with a bunch of guys. Yeah, often sometimes.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
A bunch of guys. I have an open tour with
Rob Mayer. Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Because he's got a really great Instagram account where I
see you guys are like pre show, post show, Yes,
wandering through in the rain. Yes, it's a lot of
fun to watch you.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
It's really fun to be at home in California watching
you the rains and so throughout the country. But that's
great and uh and you've been doing stand up for
a while and you're loving it. Yeah, yeah, that's you know,
it's live. There's nothing beats live. Yeah, unless it's a movie. Okay. Good,
So my fans, everybody should look out for the movies
that are coming out with David Keckner and then also
(47:25):
look for you to if you're going to go to
a county club, try to find David Keickner coming to
your town. All right, that's fantastic, doublass, David. I really
appreciate you coming.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
I really appreciate after great to see you again. A
hard tour. You dragged your ass in here. Really very
kind of you, really good, and thank you for being here.
That's my viewers, thanks for being here. Please feel free
to rate me at DBA wjk at gmail dot com.
If you have criticisms, it's okay, suggestions, fine, comments, compliments,
(47:55):
all of it good and like the show, share the show,
all that stuff, but mainly, sit in front of a
human being and have a conversation. That's what the whole
show is about. Sit in front of somebody and talk
with each other. It does you a world of good. Anyway,
we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Good job.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Don't be alone with j J. Cogain
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.