September 29, 2025 • 13 mins
The reality of being a dev is that you're capable of a future that goes way past the limits a company allows you to work within. Just in case devs forgot, I wanted to record this reminding them of that, and ultimately why I left the industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Don Hansen (00:00):
So I want to talk about an unpleasant truth of
being a developer, and it'sactually why I quit the
industry.
So I don't really have anoutline prepared, so I'm just
gonna rant a bit.
But the truth is you arebuilding up someone else's
dream.
As a developer, you have askill to give you financial
(00:26):
freedom like you've neverexperienced before.
Right?
You think about I mean, like ifeven if you think about the
amount of money that a lot ofdevelopers are making, some and
Fang companies are makinghundreds of thousands of
dollars.
And that's great, but you arecapable of making a lot more
than that.
Especially during a time whereload code solutions are limited
(00:53):
and agenda coding is creating abunch of AI slot, no better than
very basic prototypes, thingsthat are not scalable.
And if you're a developer andyou've played around with these
tools, you know this.
But I want to talk about when Ibecame a developer, and I was
really, really excited to justcode and build something and
(01:18):
earn money from coding.
I never could have dreamed thatI could have done that because
I went down, I didn't go thecomputer science route.
I became an aquatics director,and I'm like, you know, what
company is ever going to want tohire me as a developer?
But I found myself constantlycoding on the side.
But I just like when I became adeveloper, I loved it.
(01:39):
It was a lot of fun.
I met a lot of really coolpeople, and that's the
experience of being a developer.
It's two things it's growingand then meeting really
brilliant people, cool peoplethat you make friendships with,
um, no matter if you stay at thecompany or not.
But I don't really think it'sfor most developers, it's
building really awesomegreenfield projects where you've
(01:59):
had a lot of autonomy to like,you know, decide on the product
and you've you might gain someownership over parts of that
code base, but when you're on ateam, you're you're sharing that
responsibility and you'rebuilding up the CEO's dream.
You're building up theirproduct.
And then when I moved into mysecond deposition, I kind of
(02:19):
started to realize that.
I started to envy the CEO andwhat he's done and what he's
created.
And I found myself um moreinterested in everything else
that had to go along with thecoding portion of building up a
product.
I gotta fix that error.
(02:40):
Damn Windows.
Um, but I found that I was, youknow, trying to build up their
social media and I volunteeredfor that.
And then I wanted to learn morefrom marketing and sales to
like build up a product likethis.
And if I want to do sales or ifI want to do like a content
creation business, and I wascoding and I kept growing as a
developer, and I still kind ofliked it.
(03:02):
Um, but that's because I wasnewer with it.
And then jumped to my thirdcompany.
I couldn't care less about theproduct.
It was like some businessautomation tool for like
enterprise companies.
I just didn't care at all.
I found it so incrediblyuninspiring, and the work that
(03:24):
was required of me was actuallychallenging.
Um, it was the first time Ireally dove into GraphQL, and
that's you know, has a learningcurve.
And I just didn't care.
I didn't care anymore.
That's the truth.
And part of the reason why islike, first of all, you need to
find a company where you'reworking at a product that you
(03:44):
love.
Like, if I got hired by Twitch,which I failed the interview, I
bombed it.
I was way too nervous.
But if I got hired at Twitch, Ithink I probably would still be
in the industry, to be honest.
Like, I'm building Twitch appson the side, and it's I I love
it.
I like I like building toolsfor streamers and content
(04:05):
creators, and that's kind ofwhat I'm doing little by little
each night.
And I love that, I really do.
But you got to be careful, andI think most dev positions, you
don't really love everythingabout the product that you're
building, and you know, there'snot really job security anymore.
We're hearing about a bunch oflayoffs, and so to invest all of
(04:25):
your time and energy intobuilding up someone else's dream
to just like have no jobsecurity and probably or like
you might have to transition outof that job within a year,
that's it's really hard to findfulfillment in that.
I don't know about you, butlike I became a de a dev to
build things, right?
To build products.
(04:46):
And if I don't really havelongevity in that product, I
don't have buy-in with itbecause there's no job security
anymore.
There never really was, butthere really isn't now, then
what's the point?
That's how I see it, anyways.
As a newer developer to getsome experience, I think that's
(05:06):
great.
And I think a lot of people areyou you should aim for finding
the right company fit.
And I I think I should havespent more time doing that
rather than chasing moneybecause the third position was a
money move.
It's a big money move, but itwas a money move.
And I've just always had thisvoice in the back of my head
(05:28):
that like just keeps pushing meto like build something of my
own to go the entrepreneurshiproute.
It's why I'm doing what I do,and it is way more fulfilling
than ever being a dev was.
And maybe that's just how mymind works.
I know not everyone, like a lotof people just struggle to like
(05:49):
think of ideas of things theywant to build that comes
incredibly easy to me.
I have hundreds of ideaswritten down and I have a lot of
them sketched out, and it justlike I my mind just I have to do
it or my mind will keep me upat night.
But I love it, like I love itso much that I kind of have to
just like let my like exercisemy mind to do that to satisfy
(06:12):
it, and um eventually some ofthose ideas turn into YouTube
videos.
Eventually, some of those ideasI'm kind of coding on the side,
right?
And I think my problem reallyis like honing in on like what
specifically I want to focus onbecause I'm interested in so
many things.
That's always been my problem,and to have that focus long
term.
So that speaks a little bitmore to my mind and maybe why
(06:36):
I'm bored of building up someoneelse's product.
But I I when I put out a poll along time ago, hundreds of
people voted in it.
Most of you want to build yourown thing, and you want that
financial freedom, and you kindof want that autonomy and that
creative control to build yourown thing.
Most of you do, I know you do.
You just don't know how to doit.
And it's hard.
(06:58):
It's really, really difficult.
And I think most of you wouldfail at it.
And to be frank, I went into alot of debt over the previous
years to just barely be able topay my bills now.
It's not an easy thing.
I don't think I'm that good atit.
(07:19):
And I think I took it waylonger than I wanted to, but I
eventually started making itwork.
And maybe it won't work in ayear.
I d you know, I'm I'm still ata point where it's like it might
not work in a year.
I don't know.
A lot of what I've built andwhat I do and the revenue that I
earn is based on the economydoing well.
And I I think we all know howthat's going.
(07:43):
And so it's been a challenge,to say the least.
Um, but I can change businessmodels, I can change my focus,
and also my interest change, andI think my business should
reflect that.
But I think there is just this,I don't know, just this like
power, this fulfillment, thisinspiration that comes from
(08:07):
knowing that you have theability to build something that
can turn into a million-dollarbusiness and you can do it the
right way.
Right?
You're not a product manager,you're not some random indie
hacker that never got a solidfoundation.
You know how to fucking codeand you can build what you want
in a scalable way, but I thinkwhat you have to supplement, you
(08:29):
know, is the marketing andeverything else, which is a lot.
And I think that's where mostdevelopers fail.
But if you have the patience totest the waters and, you know,
create content around theproduct that you're creating
because you're you really lovethe the um industry that it's
in, right?
You love the problem that it'ssolving, you have to love that.
And then you continue flushingout that product and talking
(08:50):
about it, and you create aYouTube channel, and you know,
you don't have to do cold sales,but you know, like creating
content around it and gaining anaudience around it is a very
powerful way for developers togo off on their own and have
their products be successful,and most developers don't want
to do that.
But if you do, the skill thatyou have is more lucrative than
(09:15):
you will ever know.
And if you want to findinspiration of people that have
really made that work, there area lot of developers that have
created products, hell, thecompanies that you literally
work for started with a simpleproduct, a simple solution is
very narrow-focused.
And the founder just builtsomething, scrapped together
(09:37):
something, and then turned thatinto a company.
That's exactly what you can do.
And so this kind of thinking,this kind of mindset keeps me
from going back into theindustry.
I think there was like a weekwhere like I had some personal
recommendations from developersI knew for a bunch of senior
positions, or not a bunch, uh acouple senior positions.
(09:58):
And I decided to humor thoseand go through the interview
process, and I didn't get thejob.
Um I think there were two orthree that I did not get.
I got late-stage interview, butto be honest, the skill that
they were looking for was higherthan what I was.
Um, part of the reason why itkind of made me like want to
double down on coding again andlike really build a solid
(10:21):
foundation and um just be betteroff than what I was when I left
the industry, and I am rightnow, which is interesting.
I've become a better developerlike not working for someone
else, which I I find reallyinteresting.
You don't need a company tobuild up your skills.
But I I'll always have that inthe back of my mind to always
build my own things, and that'skind of just a you know, it I
(10:48):
don't want to discourage youfrom working for someone else
because I think the people thatsay like everyone needs to
become an entrepreneur and starttheir own business, and like I
think most people are not, theydon't want to do that, and
they're not gonna follow throughwith that.
I I think most people shouldconsider it and test the waters,
but it's just kind of a truthof being a dev where like
(11:13):
there's just so much morefulfillment in building your own
thing than there ever will beof you building up something
else for someone else that'sgonna make a lot more money than
you are.
And that's the truth of why Idon't go back into the industry.
And I, you know, I've kind ofbeen avoiding like really
talking about this because Ithink it can discourage some
people, and I I think it canpush them into trying to be an
(11:36):
entrepreneur, and I'm not sayingthat is the path for you.
But I do think, like, if I hadto give one message, I think
every developer should have apersonal project that they care
about.
Don't just build a personalproject to build a personal
project, build a personalproject to build something that
you want to build for the peoplethat you want to build with
your own conventions, where youdon't have to follow the
(11:56):
conventions of the team.
And you can just do your ownthing and have that creative
control, and then the success ofit is 100% on you, which
actually to me feels way betterthan giving up that control to
other people.
It's more fun, it's morechallenging.
(12:17):
But everyone should be buildingtheir own personal project
because you never know whenyou're gonna get fired, when
you're gonna get laid off.
If the past few years haven'ttaught you that, I don't know
what will.
And it's sad to see gooddevelopers struggling.
Um, it's sad to see gooddevelopers waste their lives
(12:41):
away at companies they don'treally want to work at when you
have an ability to create likereally impactful things and
actually find a ton offulfillment in it, way more than
you would of building upsomeone else's dream.
So kind of build that personalproject on the side.
You never know what it's goingto turn into.
And I think that's the mainmessage.
(13:02):
But I don't think I'm gonna begoing back into the industry
anytime soon.
Um, I love what I'm doing, andif what I'm doing isn't working,
I will try my best to figure itout.
And that for me is way morefulfilling than coding and
building up someone else's dreamever was.
So I want to talk about an unpleasant truth of
being a developer, and it'sactually why I quit the
industry.
So I don't really have anoutline prepared, so I'm just
gonna rant a bit.
But the truth is you arebuilding up someone else's
dream.
As a developer, you have askill to give you financial
(00:26):
freedom like you've neverexperienced before.
Right?
You think about I mean, like ifeven if you think about the
amount of money that a lot ofdevelopers are making, some and
Fang companies are makinghundreds of thousands of
dollars.
And that's great, but you arecapable of making a lot more
than that.
Especially during a time whereload code solutions are limited
(00:53):
and agenda coding is creating abunch of AI slot, no better than
very basic prototypes, thingsthat are not scalable.
And if you're a developer andyou've played around with these
tools, you know this.
But I want to talk about when Ibecame a developer, and I was
really, really excited to justcode and build something and
(01:18):
earn money from coding.
I never could have dreamed thatI could have done that because
I went down, I didn't go thecomputer science route.
I became an aquatics director,and I'm like, you know, what
company is ever going to want tohire me as a developer?
But I found myself constantlycoding on the side.
But I just like when I became adeveloper, I loved it.
(01:39):
It was a lot of fun.
I met a lot of really coolpeople, and that's the
experience of being a developer.
It's two things it's growingand then meeting really
brilliant people, cool peoplethat you make friendships with,
um, no matter if you stay at thecompany or not.
But I don't really think it'sfor most developers, it's
building really awesomegreenfield projects where you've
(01:59):
had a lot of autonomy to like,you know, decide on the product
and you've you might gain someownership over parts of that
code base, but when you're on ateam, you're you're sharing that
responsibility and you'rebuilding up the CEO's dream.
You're building up theirproduct.
And then when I moved into mysecond deposition, I kind of
(02:19):
started to realize that.
I started to envy the CEO andwhat he's done and what he's
created.
And I found myself um moreinterested in everything else
that had to go along with thecoding portion of building up a
product.
I gotta fix that error.
(02:40):
Damn Windows.
Um, but I found that I was, youknow, trying to build up their
social media and I volunteeredfor that.
And then I wanted to learn morefrom marketing and sales to
like build up a product likethis.
And if I want to do sales or ifI want to do like a content
creation business, and I wascoding and I kept growing as a
developer, and I still kind ofliked it.
(03:02):
Um, but that's because I wasnewer with it.
And then jumped to my thirdcompany.
I couldn't care less about theproduct.
It was like some businessautomation tool for like
enterprise companies.
I just didn't care at all.
I found it so incrediblyuninspiring, and the work that
(03:24):
was required of me was actuallychallenging.
Um, it was the first time Ireally dove into GraphQL, and
that's you know, has a learningcurve.
And I just didn't care.
I didn't care anymore.
That's the truth.
And part of the reason why islike, first of all, you need to
find a company where you'reworking at a product that you
(03:44):
love.
Like, if I got hired by Twitch,which I failed the interview, I
bombed it.
I was way too nervous.
But if I got hired at Twitch, Ithink I probably would still be
in the industry, to be honest.
Like, I'm building Twitch appson the side, and it's I I love
it.
I like I like building toolsfor streamers and content
(04:05):
creators, and that's kind ofwhat I'm doing little by little
each night.
And I love that, I really do.
But you got to be careful, andI think most dev positions, you
don't really love everythingabout the product that you're
building, and you know, there'snot really job security anymore.
We're hearing about a bunch oflayoffs, and so to invest all of
(04:25):
your time and energy intobuilding up someone else's dream
to just like have no jobsecurity and probably or like
you might have to transition outof that job within a year,
that's it's really hard to findfulfillment in that.
I don't know about you, butlike I became a de a dev to
build things, right?
To build products.
(04:46):
And if I don't really havelongevity in that product, I
don't have buy-in with itbecause there's no job security
anymore.
There never really was, butthere really isn't now, then
what's the point?
That's how I see it, anyways.
As a newer developer to getsome experience, I think that's
(05:06):
great.
And I think a lot of people areyou you should aim for finding
the right company fit.
And I I think I should havespent more time doing that
rather than chasing moneybecause the third position was a
money move.
It's a big money move, but itwas a money move.
And I've just always had thisvoice in the back of my head
(05:28):
that like just keeps pushing meto like build something of my
own to go the entrepreneurshiproute.
It's why I'm doing what I do,and it is way more fulfilling
than ever being a dev was.
And maybe that's just how mymind works.
I know not everyone, like a lotof people just struggle to like
(05:49):
think of ideas of things theywant to build that comes
incredibly easy to me.
I have hundreds of ideaswritten down and I have a lot of
them sketched out, and it justlike I my mind just I have to do
it or my mind will keep me upat night.
But I love it, like I love itso much that I kind of have to
just like let my like exercisemy mind to do that to satisfy
(06:12):
it, and um eventually some ofthose ideas turn into YouTube
videos.
Eventually, some of those ideasI'm kind of coding on the side,
right?
And I think my problem reallyis like honing in on like what
specifically I want to focus onbecause I'm interested in so
many things.
That's always been my problem,and to have that focus long
term.
So that speaks a little bitmore to my mind and maybe why
(06:36):
I'm bored of building up someoneelse's product.
But I I when I put out a poll along time ago, hundreds of
people voted in it.
Most of you want to build yourown thing, and you want that
financial freedom, and you kindof want that autonomy and that
creative control to build yourown thing.
Most of you do, I know you do.
You just don't know how to doit.
And it's hard.
(06:58):
It's really, really difficult.
And I think most of you wouldfail at it.
And to be frank, I went into alot of debt over the previous
years to just barely be able topay my bills now.
It's not an easy thing.
I don't think I'm that good atit.
(07:19):
And I think I took it waylonger than I wanted to, but I
eventually started making itwork.
And maybe it won't work in ayear.
I d you know, I'm I'm still ata point where it's like it might
not work in a year.
I don't know.
A lot of what I've built andwhat I do and the revenue that I
earn is based on the economydoing well.
And I I think we all know howthat's going.
(07:43):
And so it's been a challenge,to say the least.
Um, but I can change businessmodels, I can change my focus,
and also my interest change, andI think my business should
reflect that.
But I think there is just this,I don't know, just this like
power, this fulfillment, thisinspiration that comes from
(08:07):
knowing that you have theability to build something that
can turn into a million-dollarbusiness and you can do it the
right way.
Right?
You're not a product manager,you're not some random indie
hacker that never got a solidfoundation.
You know how to fucking codeand you can build what you want
in a scalable way, but I thinkwhat you have to supplement, you
(08:29):
know, is the marketing andeverything else, which is a lot.
And I think that's where mostdevelopers fail.
But if you have the patience totest the waters and, you know,
create content around theproduct that you're creating
because you're you really lovethe the um industry that it's
in, right?
You love the problem that it'ssolving, you have to love that.
And then you continue flushingout that product and talking
(08:50):
about it, and you create aYouTube channel, and you know,
you don't have to do cold sales,but you know, like creating
content around it and gaining anaudience around it is a very
powerful way for developers togo off on their own and have
their products be successful,and most developers don't want
to do that.
But if you do, the skill thatyou have is more lucrative than
(09:15):
you will ever know.
And if you want to findinspiration of people that have
really made that work, there area lot of developers that have
created products, hell, thecompanies that you literally
work for started with a simpleproduct, a simple solution is
very narrow-focused.
And the founder just builtsomething, scrapped together
(09:37):
something, and then turned thatinto a company.
That's exactly what you can do.
And so this kind of thinking,this kind of mindset keeps me
from going back into theindustry.
I think there was like a weekwhere like I had some personal
recommendations from developersI knew for a bunch of senior
positions, or not a bunch, uh acouple senior positions.
(09:58):
And I decided to humor thoseand go through the interview
process, and I didn't get thejob.
Um I think there were two orthree that I did not get.
I got late-stage interview, butto be honest, the skill that
they were looking for was higherthan what I was.
Um, part of the reason why itkind of made me like want to
double down on coding again andlike really build a solid
(10:21):
foundation and um just be betteroff than what I was when I left
the industry, and I am rightnow, which is interesting.
I've become a better developerlike not working for someone
else, which I I find reallyinteresting.
You don't need a company tobuild up your skills.
But I I'll always have that inthe back of my mind to always
build my own things, and that'skind of just a you know, it I
(10:48):
don't want to discourage youfrom working for someone else
because I think the people thatsay like everyone needs to
become an entrepreneur and starttheir own business, and like I
think most people are not, theydon't want to do that, and
they're not gonna follow throughwith that.
I I think most people shouldconsider it and test the waters,
but it's just kind of a truthof being a dev where like
(11:13):
there's just so much morefulfillment in building your own
thing than there ever will beof you building up something
else for someone else that'sgonna make a lot more money than
you are.
And that's the truth of why Idon't go back into the industry.
And I, you know, I've kind ofbeen avoiding like really
talking about this because Ithink it can discourage some
people, and I I think it canpush them into trying to be an
(11:36):
entrepreneur, and I'm not sayingthat is the path for you.
But I do think, like, if I hadto give one message, I think
every developer should have apersonal project that they care
about.
Don't just build a personalproject to build a personal
project, build a personalproject to build something that
you want to build for the peoplethat you want to build with
your own conventions, where youdon't have to follow the
(11:56):
conventions of the team.
And you can just do your ownthing and have that creative
control, and then the success ofit is 100% on you, which
actually to me feels way betterthan giving up that control to
other people.
It's more fun, it's morechallenging.
(12:17):
But everyone should be buildingtheir own personal project
because you never know whenyou're gonna get fired, when
you're gonna get laid off.
If the past few years haven'ttaught you that, I don't know
what will.
And it's sad to see gooddevelopers struggling.
Um, it's sad to see gooddevelopers waste their lives
(12:41):
away at companies they don'treally want to work at when you
have an ability to create likereally impactful things and
actually find a ton offulfillment in it, way more than
you would of building upsomeone else's dream.
So kind of build that personalproject on the side.
You never know what it's goingto turn into.
And I think that's the mainmessage.
(13:02):
But I don't think I'm gonna begoing back into the industry
anytime soon.
Um, I love what I'm doing, andif what I'm doing isn't working,
I will try my best to figure itout.
And that for me is way morefulfilling than coding and
building up someone else's dreamever was.
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