October 6, 2022 • 36 mins
Is it just us, or did everyone travel this summer? The pandemic restricted far-off vacations for a while, but people seem to be flying everywhere again. Some have even set up their remote work “offices” in paradise. But before you pack your beach bag, you might want to think about how your wanderlust affects the locals. This week, Titi and Zakiya learn all about coastal tourism, the larger tourism economy, and their effects on local communities and ecologies. Guest: Sarah Stodola. You can find more Dope Labs, show notes, and cheat sheets at dopelabspodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
T T.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:02):
I feel like everybody in their mama was traveling this summer.
Speaker 4 (00:07):
Yeah, outside opened up and people could travel a lot more,
and everybody hit the streets hard.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Is there a travel newsletter? How are people all going
to the same destination? People I've never seen eat a
string of pasta ended up in Italy, all of them.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I don't know if there was some airline deals or what.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
It's the same thing that was happening last year when
everybody was going to Mexico.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Right, I was like, is it a travel page that
I don't know about just telling us where to go?
How are we getting all these trends? And not only
are people going to specific destinations, but it feels like
the volume of travel is so much higher, especially compared
to what we saw in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
You know absolutely, I know that a lot of places
probably took a big hit when COVID hit. As far
as tourism goes and the rebound, I don't know if
they're found in, but it seems like everybody is getting out.
I'm T T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This
is Dope Labs.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that makes us
hardcore science, pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
This week, we're talking all about the tourism economy. Specifically,
we really wanted to know more about coastal tourism and
its effect on local communities and ecologies.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Let's get into the recitation.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So what do we know?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Well, we know that travel was really limited for the
past few years, and now it's wide open. People are
back at it.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yes, everyone is outside.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
And now that there's a lot of people that are
working from home, how we travel has changed a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
People are working from all over the globe.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And with folks working from all over the globe, I
know there has been some impact on these local communities
that they're traveling to. And I know that also because
I've been hearing about it a little bit, both in
Twitter threads and in comments on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So what do we want to know?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I specifically want to know more about the tourism economy.
I can remember people talking about it at the height
of the pandemic, you know, like shutting down tourism, and
I was like, Oh, this is bigger than I thought.
It's not just Disney.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
World, right.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
I think I have an idea, but I want to
hear the specifics about how tourism affects indigenous communities.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I think travel is still baked into our way of life,
you know, and considering that even if you're not just vacationing,
but you might have to travel for work, you know,
conferences and stuff like that, or just one off traveling
to stay connected with your family and friends. And so
considering all of that, what can we do to be
more conscious travelers?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Let's jump into the dissection.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Our guest for today's lab is Sarah Stidola.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Hi. I am Sarah Stidola.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
I'm the author of The Last Resort, which is a
book about the history, the future, the economy of beach tourism.
I'm a longtime travel writer, which is what ultimately led
me into writing this book.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
When I think about summer and travel in summer vacation,
I immediately think about beach resorts. We started by asking
Sarah to walk us through the history of beach resorts
as we know them now.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
I started out, and you know, the fifteen hundreds in
England as almost this wellness thing.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
People would go to places that had springs.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
They would go to improve their health in some way
because of the qualities of the water. And then in
the seventeen hundreds, a couple of enterprising doctors that ran
those kinds of resorts thought they'd get kind of competitive advantage,
or you get a leg up on the competition by
starting to introduce the supposed benefits of seawater. And so
then the first resorts emerged at the seaside that took
(04:25):
advantage of dipping into seawater, ingesting seawater, mixing seawater with
your wine for the health benefits there. And so that's
really where the first seaside resorts were born from.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
You gotta start putting seawater in your wine, my friend,
the salty wine.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
No, Sarah said that starting in the late fifteen hundreds,
doctors began prescribing seawater, bathing in it, and drinking it
to treat all kinds of ailments like heat stroke, melancolia,
digest of issues, tuberculosis, even leprosy.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
And like all good things. And this was eventually capitalized
on with the creation of the seaside resort. And to
be clear, these were not places to have fun and
relax at the time. All right, t t take us
back to the mid eighteenth century, roll that beautiful bean footage.
What was it like to be at a sea resort
at that time?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Okay, so there's this article from the Atlantic called the
Historic Healing Power of the Beach by eighty bron And
so just imagine yourself mid eighteenth century.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
You are going to the spa.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Okay, You're going for treatment, and your treatment resembles something
similar to waterboarding. So you are going to be dunked
in freezing seawater repeatedly until you feel so cold that
it feels like you're suffocating, and you start to feel
terror and panic, and they thought that that was revitalizing.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Then while you're.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Standing there, dripping wet and scared for your life, you
would be pulled from the water and then giving a
vigorous back rub and feet warmers and then thrown onto
dry land for a cup of tea. And what was
supposed to happen was that the adrenaline from the shock
of the cold was supposed to have soothing effects on
(06:23):
the body to calm your anxiety and restore the body
soul balanced. This sounds very stressful to me. How you
gonna spawn to be more stressed.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
If you dunk me in that water and dragged me out,
and all you have for me is a cup of tea.
You better hope I'm did okay kill me because it's
gonna be hail today. You better hope the treatment kills.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So when did we change from this? When did we
go from what sounds like a horror to what I
know as a beach resort.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
The idea of the beach as a place for fun
in the sun started to change in the nineteen hundreds
when Americans started going as a summer destination in Europe.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Even though beach tourism had become very popular, it was
still a winter time activity. You weren't going at the
hottest time of year, so the Americans in the early
nineteen hundreds. Well before even then, the Americans had started
using beaches as an escape from the sweltering cities in
the summer, and then they brought that back over to Europe,
and that's when the seaside beach tourism became this hot weather,
(07:35):
as little on as you can have fun in the
sand kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Up until this point, seaside resorts were still catering to
the most elite and wealthiest people in society, but all
of that changed in the mid nineteenth century after World
War Two, with the growth of the middle class and
more economic travel options like trains, the seaside resort became
a destination for people seeking rest and rehabilitation.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
All of a sudden, it wasn't just the upper classes
that could afford to go on a lengthy beach vacation. Now,
all of a sudden, there's a growing, exploding population that
can afford it also, and so that kind of resulted
in this explosion of tourism in general, but also beach
tourism specifically.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Sarah brought up one more inflection point that is crucial,
and that is the emergence of Hawaii as a vacation destination.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Hawaii was kind of this stepping stone also in the
early nineteen hundreds to more kind of far flung beach tourism.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Before Hawaii, all beach.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Tourism was either in Europe or America, and it was
the first time that travelers from those places were kind
of heading out of a culture that looked just like
their own.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So that's a lot to take in.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah, So to sum it up, there's a lot of
inflection points that led us to where we are today,
one being the beach having medicinal properties. Then beach vacations
become more affordable to more people, and the emergence of
the beach this far away paradise, and all of these
things have led us to where we are today, the
current state of beach tourism.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
One of the things I wanted to do with this
book was kind of make it clear, just like what
a major global industry tourism is.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It's a nine trillion dollar industry.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
It's bigger than cars internationally, it's bigger than food internationally.
A lot of the time it doesn't get covered that
way because so much travel media tends to be inspirational
and service journalism, helping people decide where to go, and
so it hasn't really gotten covered as this serious, major
industry that it is.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yes, bigger than food. Everybody got to.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Eat, I know.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Okay, we're traveling more than everybody has to travel, I know.
And when you think about it with that perspective, it's
really shocking.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Sarah raises a really good point. It feels like now
online people are treating travel like a personality.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
They really think that it is.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I mean, everywhere in ig profiles, they'll say my passport
has this many stamps or I've been in this many countries,
and on the dating apps it's huge. People are like,
don't swipe on me unless you have a passport. I've
been to fifty six countries like home, and so I
(10:20):
get it travels big, but I think I want to understand, like,
even when we talk about the tourism industry, Okay, it
includes those people in the services they need, but what
are other things does it include? So I know we're
talking about resorts and you know, buses to shuttle you
different places, but what else is included in tourism that
I'm not thinking about.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Obviously, you have to include air travel, and it's a major, major,
major part of it. It's also the biggest contributor to
the carbon footprint of tourism. I think you have to include,
you know, food and drink production. A lot of resorts
are now grappling with like do you import French wines
to a place in feed that's so far away or
(11:02):
do you import closer by ones from Australia or something,
And so that kind of import export of especially.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Food and drink, I think is a huge, huge factor.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
So it's not just the hospitality industry. We're also talking
about food and agriculture, transportation, travel agencies and tour companies,
tourism boards, attractions, entertainment.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
All of these things contribute to the scope of the
tourism industry.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Tourism worldwide accounts for ten percent of all jobs worldwide,
so you have to look at the human factor of
their input into this economy and how important that part is.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Also, Sarah clarified that the statistic is from twenty nineteen,
but still ten percent, ten percent.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Of all jobs. That is wild to me.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And so now I think knowing that really puts the
pandemic in perspective, because I mean, I knew there were
a lot of people, but there were a lot a
lot of people who were so suddenly out of work
because no one was going anywhere. And obviously that was
devastating for a lot of economies, and you can imagine
even more so in countries where tourism is the major
(12:12):
part of the economy. So we ask Sarah if she
thinks tourism has changed, and if so, how now that
many travel restrictions are starting to lift.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
I don't know that the pandemic has necessarily changed the
destinations that people are heading to in a long term way.
I think there is a kind of permanent change, or
it looks like it might be permanent change and the
way a lot of people are traveling With this new
environment we have of remote work that seems like it's sticking.
(12:44):
People can travel to places for longer periods of time
work from those places, and we're seeing a lot of
resorts start to cater to that, and we're seeing governments
start to cater to it and offering what's known as
the digital nomad visa. A lot of Caribbean country are
offering them. Italy has recently announced that they're starting one,
(13:04):
Croatia has one. So there's a lot of that happening
and I think that will have a lasting effect.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
On what resources look like and how people use them.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I'd love that she brought up digital nomads because it
feels like this is a trend that has been on
the rise and then accelerated by the pandemic. So a
digital nomad is someone who can do their work online
and remotely, so they can work from really any physical
location wherever they want, all over the world. And a
digital nomad visa allows you to stay in a foreign
(13:35):
country longer than a typical tourist visa, as long as
you aren't entering the local labor market. Yeah, as long
as you're not trying to work in that country, because
if you really a digital nomad, you should have a
job in your home country. Yes, And Sarah says that
there are good and bad sides to digital nomadism.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
In terms of climate change, it's better to take one
flight to a place and stay there for a long
time than it is to take four flights throughout the year.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
On shorter trips. So in that sense, I think it's
considered a good thing.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
I also think that the localities that are trying to
attract digital nomads in this way see it as a
good thing, and that people will have more of an
actual experience with the community and the culture rather than
just dipping out staying in the.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Bubble of the resort.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
They'll actually live in the place, They'll get to know
the place, and in that way it's a richer, better
experience all around for the travelers coming there, for the locals,
for everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
One potential negative.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Of course, would be, you know, it's like the Airbnb
effect of driving up housing costs that you know, I
don't think we've seen evidence of that yet, but just
kind of logically that could be a challenge if digital
nomadism takes off in a huge way.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
I saw an article recently on Travel Noir that said
that Mexico City has gotten a huge influx of digital nomads,
mainly from the United States and Canada, and the permanent
residency applications have double since the pandemic. Wow, Mexicans are
starting to protest this because they're seeing housing and cost
of living prices on the rise, as well as an
(15:09):
increase in gentrification.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And I've seen a lot of things about the residents
of Mexico City, at least complaining about the gentrification and
increasing costs and bad bunnies. Recent documentary talked about some
similar things happening in Puerto Rico, where the government was
making all these tax exemptions for companies, and you know,
companies go places where people are working and doing things
and where it's easier for them to build. We talked
(15:32):
about that in an earlier episode when we were talking
about building semiconductor chip plants, and so, you know, once
a place becomes popular with tourists, it's a chain reaction
with the local economy, and so some folks have been
complaining there's.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
A tourism life cycle that kind of starts in this
exploration stage where just a few intrupid travelers come to
a place, and from there the locals will start offering
services just to those few people, and then a basic
infrastructure gets developed, and then from there outside companies tend
(16:06):
to start to come in and locals start to lose
control of the industry, and so that local economy is
very very important in terms of how it's structured.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
This is really interesting because we recently did an episode
about the United States economy, so we know how quickly
a country's economy can change, and we also know what
some of the driving forces of that change might be
a lot of tourist destinations see that along with increased
popularity among tourists comes economic change that can be quite
a shock to the local economy, and for some locals
(16:39):
that adjustment is not easy, or sometimes it's not even possible.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Who ultimately controls and benefits from beach tourism is really
dependent on local governments. Like local governments have to be
involved in guaranteeing certain land rights, certain ownership rights. The
government's toc who gets the permit to run the resort,
or who is allowed to get the permit.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Sarah cites two examples from her book on how local
governments might affect the ability for indigenous groups to adapt
to growing tourism.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
In Fiji, land rights for the indigenous population are extremely strong.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
They really can't be taken away.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
And it's very strong landforced And because of that, this
village that collectively owned this land now rents it to
a resort and as a result, gets rental income from
this resort kind of guaranteed. And then you compare that
to some of the people that I met in Vietnam.
This man named Hoa in particular, who back in the
nineties opened this guesthouse on the beach and it was
(17:45):
very very popular.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
He was beloved by visitors.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
But then when they started really developing the area for
beach tourism, Vietnam does not have strong land ownership rights.
They have clauses in their law that land can be
taken away for the quote unquote public good, but it's
very vaguely defined what the public good is, and so
he ultimately had his land taken away. Even though he
(18:08):
was a pioneer of making this industry happen there, and
on his land where he ran his little resort is
now a four star resort run by a Spanish company.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
A lot of people don't realize the impacts tourism can
have if the government hasn't set things up correctly for
the indigenous people of that country. And even in the
places where the tourism industry has been alive and well
for decades, we're seeing pushback from indigenous communities who are
fighting against over tourism.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
The most recent example is Hawaii.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
The indigenous Hawaiians themselves who have very much been crowded
out of their own beachfronts and I think are very
frustrated that tourism in Hawaii seems to have been prioritized
by the government over them. Hawaii is suffering a lot
of ecological challenges from tourism now. I cover Waikiki pretty
(19:01):
extensively in the book, and Waikiki is having all kinds
of trouble even keeping a beach in place there now
because of you know, it's been overbuilt so much. And
then there's also no way to have a trip to
Hawaii that is not a long haul flight, right. It's
a long haul flight from everywhere. And so in this
(19:22):
kind of emerging understanding we're having of just how damaging
the air travel part of travel is, a place like
Hawaii really starts to suffer from that challenge.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yo, Hawaii is way further west than I thought. I'd
really like to open up maps and look at that
whole thing. The distance from Now. I don't know if
this is true, but my eyeball distance from the west
coast of California to Hawaii is further than the eastern
coast of South America to the continent of Africa. Yes,
(19:56):
give Hawaii back breath.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
And another important thing to think about is carbon footprint.
And so what a carbon footprint is is the total
amount of greenhouse gases that you generate by your action.
So that can be driving a car, taking a bus,
going on a plane. All of these things have a
carbon footprint. Even ordering online because you know, like we
talked about in our episode about shipping and all the delays,
(20:24):
all of that has a carbon footprint too, because those
items are being put on a truck and each of
those trucks are emitting greenhouse gases. And so when we
think about the context of carbon footprint, when it comes
to air travel. That flight from wherever you are all
the way to Hawaii, that.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Is a significant amount of air pollution.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
We're seeing the same thing happening in Puerto Rico, where
Puerto Rican climate activists are fighting against coastal development and
the privatization of public beaches. And the problem isn't just gentrification,
it's also the coastal erosion that's happening because of climate
change and the dangers that new infrastry ructure along the
coast can bring in the wake of storms like Hurricane
(21:03):
Maria and just recently Hurricane Fiona.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
This is such a great point, and coastal erosion is
the wearing away of the shoreline due to various factors
that interrupt the natural balance between the waves, the currents,
and the wind. So imagine you put a resort right
on that ocean line. That ocean line is going to
feel the weight of that building. Baby Tourism in coastal
(21:27):
communities has huge repercussions for the local ecology as well
as the local economy.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
I think one of the biggest waves that resorts tend
to impact the shorelines is by causing, ironically the beaches
to a road. And when that happens, it has an
impact on the ecosystem the animals that rely on that sand.
Then all of a sudden it might not be there.
The animals that rely on those animals that rely on
(21:53):
the sand might not be there. So it has this
cascading effect. When sand gets kind of circulating in the water,
it blocks sunlight from coral reefs that need sunlight. The
content of the water is not agreeable to some animals anymore.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
At that point, we talked about this delicate balance of
oceanic life with doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, and.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I think it's important to also highlight that, yes, in
some cases it's sand in the ocean and that's blocking
the beach, and that's just downstream effects from more people
being in the kind of shallow waters, right, or more
people in activity. Now that's just like an unintended side effect.
But some beach resorts are actually intentionally disrupting the natural
(22:39):
ecology of a place by important invasive species, which we
talked about with doctor Nicholas Rayo. And one example of
this is the palm tree.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Palm trees are actually not indigenous to most shorelines in
the world, but they get imported to every single resort
that ever opens, and that comes at the expense of
the natural trees that were there and part of the ecosystem.
They require tons of water, They hardly provide any shade,
(23:09):
which we need more and more as temperatures are rising.
I do think that that is something that is now
seeping into our consciousness and probably, you know, fifty years
from now, the palm tree is not going to be
the symbol of tourism, beach tourism that it is now.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And like who decided, I don't even like palm trees.
Who decided that the palm tree was the symbol of
a relaxing vacation. Same with golf courses put put not fun.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Golf courses, which very very often accompany beach resorts, are
just a terrible, terrible ecological presence. The fertilizers and stuff
that are required to keep these large swaths of land
green in places that are not supposed to be that
green inevitably runs off into the ocean and rereaks all
(23:58):
kinds of havoc on the ocean life the ecosystem there,
and they clear out all the natural vegetation that exists
in a place and kind of create this monoculture that
is not helpful at all to the local ecosystem.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Let's take a break and when we get back, we're
talking more with Sarah Sidola about how to take all
of this into consideration when planning future travel.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
We're back, but before we get to the lab, two
quick notes. The first note is that our final lab
is on October twenty seventh, and we want to hear
from you. What's been your favorite lab this semester? What
else do you want us to talk about? Call us
and tell us at two zero two five six seven
seven zero two eight. You can also email us at
contact at Dope labspodcast dot com if you're feeling a
(24:59):
little shy. Also, next week, we're going to be covering
how social media has been changing so fast and what
that might mean for future generations. So we'll be talking
with Professor Jeff Hancock, who is the founder of the
Stanford Social Media Lab. You don't want to miss it.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
All right, let's get back to the lab.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
We've been talking to Sarah Stidola about the tourism industry
and specifically its effects on local economies. So in learning this,
how do you reconcile the desire to travel and take vacations.
How do we take these things into consideration when we
plan future travel? We act Sarah if she had a
framework for making these decisions.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
I don't think the answer is to ask people or
expect people to stop traveling trying to take trips that
don't involve so many long flights.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Especially long flights I think is good.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
That's not saying don't ever take them, but just be
very cognizant of you know, is this particular trip worth
this long haul flight. I think it's something really important
to start thinking about.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And Sarah says, if you hang around long enough, the
government might start making those decisions for you. So in
France and the UK, for example, governments are starting to
create policies that incentivize forms of travel other than flying,
and at the same time they're also discouraging frequent flyer programs.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
We need something like that in the United States so
that Kylie Jenner and Taylor Swift can't take any more
ten minute flights.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Did you see that?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
No, they are ten minute flights.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Ten minute flights. Now.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I know the traffic in la is bad, but your
carbon footprint is the size of a t Rent.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Sarah also stressed the importance of trying to support local
businesses as much as possible.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
I think one really important thing is to try to
stay in places that are locally owned or locally managed
or both. You know, the direct benefit to local communities
that way is much greater, and I think doing that
also results in a better trip for you or for
whoever is traveling. I think you get a lot more
out of that direct contact with the local culture and community.
(27:15):
Same goes for restaurants. Instead of eating at like a
major resorts restaurant, try to eat a locally owned place.
If you're at the beach, use reef safe sunscreen. Those
are all things you can do to at least not
be making the situation worse.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
If you're taking a flight somewhere, Sarah recommends doing your
research and looking into buying carbon offsets.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
So carbon offsets are something that you can buy and
just like the name implies, it's meant to offset the
carbon imprint from a flight. So the most kind of
straightforward one is, you know, you can buy offsets from
companies that will plant a certain number of trees or
plant a certain amount of vegetation in order to offset
(28:01):
the carbon output from your flight.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Well, who's gonna offset it from the palm trees? And
you know, the major caveat here is that these programs
are not perfect. So I don't want to say at best,
but at medium, you're gonna feel less guilty about your trip.
You know, that could be its own show about how
the carbon offset programs work.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean, and we talked about this in other episodes,
where you know, you should stop drinking oat milk, you
should drink soy milk because of this, that and the
other thing. All of these things are little steps in
the right direction, and we're all trying to have a
positive impact in every space that we're in when it
comes to being more eco friendly.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
So this whole episode has really made me think a
lot about traveling, of course, but it also made me
think about some of my favorite travel bloggers. And one
of my favorites is Nia Chauvin, also known as Born
a Backpacker, and she has a blog that I really love.
I follow her on Instagram and her blog website, and
she gives you tips and tricks about how to save
(29:09):
money while you're traveling, how to be eco friendly while
you're traveling, And so we asked her to talk to
us about the travel that she does with her family
and give us some tips and tricks about how to
have a positive impact on the communities that we're visiting
while we're traveling.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
I'm Nia Chauvin and I travel half the year with
my husband and our three children, who are currently six, three,
and one, and I document our travels through a blog.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Born a backpacker.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
Traveling together as a family is important for me because one,
it's core to who I was and what I love
to do before becoming a mother, so I didn't want
to lose that part of me. And second, and even
more important, showing my children other cultures, traditions, foods, languages, fosters.
I believe understanding, acceptance and respect for people with all
(30:04):
different backgrounds. Our typical length of stay in a country
is about two months, and when we travel, we really
try to do it as eco friendly as possible. The
most deliberate we are about traveling in an eco friendly
way is deciding where we put our dollars and ensuring
(30:24):
it goes directly to locals, specifically with accommodation and food,
because that's where we spend the most money. It sometimes
takes some digging, but we always try to stay at
places that are locally owned, whether it be a hotel, Airbnb,
or a home stay with a family. And the same
goes for restaurants we eat at. We always search for
(30:44):
the local spots that make food from the region, with
food from the region grown in the region. Not only
is that considered ecotourism, but it's also better food for me.
Putting money directly in locals pockets is the best way
we can leave a positive impact. And with a long
(31:05):
list of things, I would encourage people to try and
adopt as many as possible, but know that no one
is perfect. We just have to make an effort and
make some sacrifices to do what we can to be
responsible in ethical travelers.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
I'm actually in Peru right now and I am definitely
taking these recommendations to heart.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
We're eating local, we are.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Making sure that we're spending our money in local environments,
not going to any big chains, and it feels really
good to support the local Peruvian people.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
And so I think that's a great start. TT and
you did it on a dime, right, And so when
we look to the future of tourism, what might vacations
look like in a future where we're all kind of
modeling after you and trying to thrive as a global community.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I think beach resorts will survive.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
I don't think that fifty years from now we're not
going to have beach resorts anymore, but I do think
that they are going to have to look very different
than they do today. I think that resorts are no
longer going to be built right up at the sand anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
We're already seeing a lot of countries implement.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
Laws called step back laws, and it means that no
new construction can happen within it's usually something like fifty
meters of the high tideline. We're going to be seeing
kind of embracing the natural environment along with the beach
a little more. We'll see what happens with air travel.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
You know.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
The interesting thing about air travel is that it is
getting more efficient all the time. So on a per
flight basis, it's much more efficient, has much less of
a carbon imprint than it did twenty years ago. But
overall air travel has grown so much that the overall
carbon footprint of air travel is just still kind of
growing exponentially. So hopefully, in this optimistic scenario, we get
(32:51):
to a point where air travel is no longer the
super problematic element that it is today and are we
going to be there?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Is?
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Probably not, but maybe in twenty or thirty years will
be there.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Okay, it's time for the one thing tt I think
our collective one thing is Sarah Stodola's book.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yes, you should definitely pick up Sarah Stodola's book, The
Last Resort, A chronicle of paradise, profit and Peril.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
At the Beach.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
I really enjoyed reading this book. I learned so much
about the tourism industry, how it started, how we got
to where we are today. I mean, if you really
liked this episode, you will really enjoy Sarah's book, So
make sure you pick that up. Also, follow our friend
Nia Chauvin at Born and Backpacker on Instagram and subscribe
to her blog.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
It's so fun.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Her kids are so cute and she has really amazing
content on Instagram, TikTok and her blog.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
So check it all out.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
And if you want to know more about your carbon footprint,
if you want to calculate it, figure it out, how
you can adjust it with travel and how that changes,
go to the show notes and we're gonna have a
link to a carbon footprint calculator from the Nature Conservancy
so you can look at that.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
That's very cool.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
I want to know mine. I saw the averages sixteen tons.
I don't think I put out sixteen tons.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
That's for an American because Americans are the worst. That's
one of the highest rates in the world. Globally, the
average carbon footprint is four tons.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Okay, we've got a problem, America. Yes, we've got a problem, Beyonce. Already,
America has got a Problemonzade.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Will also have a link to that song for you.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Go tt we Love you, Beyonce.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
That's it for Lab eighty one. Are you taking any
trip soon? Where are you going?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Call us at two zero two five six seven seven
zero two eight and tell us what you thought, Or
call us and tell us about your favorite lab from
this semester. Remember, our finale is coming up and we
want to hear from you. That's two zero two five
six seven seven zero two eight.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
And don't forget there's so much more for you to
dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat sheet
for today's lab and additional links and resources in the
show notes. Plus you can sign up for our newsletter.
Check it out at Dope labspodcast dot com. Special thanks
to today's guest expert, Sarah Stadola.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
You can find her on Twitter at s Stadola S
S t O d O l A, and you can
find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast.
Tt is on Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore T
s h O, and you can find Zakia at z
said So. Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from
(35:48):
Mega Ohm Media Group. Our producers are Jenny Radlett Mast
and Lydia Smith of WaveRunner Studios. Our associate producer is
Caro Rolando. Editing and sound design by Rob's Smrzek with
additional mixing and sound design by Hannis Brown. Original music
composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Zugia from
(36:09):
Spotify Creative producer Miguel Contreras. Special thanks to Shirley Ramos
Jess Forreson, Till krat Key and Brian Marquis executive producers
from Mega Own Media Group rs T T Show, Dia
and Zakiyah Wattley.
T T.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:02):
I feel like everybody in their mama was traveling this summer.
Speaker 4 (00:07):
Yeah, outside opened up and people could travel a lot more,
and everybody hit the streets hard.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Is there a travel newsletter? How are people all going
to the same destination? People I've never seen eat a
string of pasta ended up in Italy, all of them.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I don't know if there was some airline deals or what.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
It's the same thing that was happening last year when
everybody was going to Mexico.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Right, I was like, is it a travel page that
I don't know about just telling us where to go?
How are we getting all these trends? And not only
are people going to specific destinations, but it feels like
the volume of travel is so much higher, especially compared
to what we saw in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
You know absolutely, I know that a lot of places
probably took a big hit when COVID hit. As far
as tourism goes and the rebound, I don't know if
they're found in, but it seems like everybody is getting out.
I'm T T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This
is Dope Labs.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that makes us
hardcore science, pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
This week, we're talking all about the tourism economy. Specifically,
we really wanted to know more about coastal tourism and
its effect on local communities and ecologies.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Let's get into the recitation.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So what do we know?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Well, we know that travel was really limited for the
past few years, and now it's wide open. People are
back at it.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yes, everyone is outside.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
And now that there's a lot of people that are
working from home, how we travel has changed a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
People are working from all over the globe.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And with folks working from all over the globe, I
know there has been some impact on these local communities
that they're traveling to. And I know that also because
I've been hearing about it a little bit, both in
Twitter threads and in comments on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So what do we want to know?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I specifically want to know more about the tourism economy.
I can remember people talking about it at the height
of the pandemic, you know, like shutting down tourism, and
I was like, Oh, this is bigger than I thought.
It's not just Disney.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
World, right.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
I think I have an idea, but I want to
hear the specifics about how tourism affects indigenous communities.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I think travel is still baked into our way of life,
you know, and considering that even if you're not just vacationing,
but you might have to travel for work, you know,
conferences and stuff like that, or just one off traveling
to stay connected with your family and friends. And so
considering all of that, what can we do to be
more conscious travelers?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Let's jump into the dissection.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Our guest for today's lab is Sarah Stidola.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Hi. I am Sarah Stidola.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
I'm the author of The Last Resort, which is a
book about the history, the future, the economy of beach tourism.
I'm a longtime travel writer, which is what ultimately led
me into writing this book.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
When I think about summer and travel in summer vacation,
I immediately think about beach resorts. We started by asking
Sarah to walk us through the history of beach resorts
as we know them now.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
I started out, and you know, the fifteen hundreds in
England as almost this wellness thing.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
People would go to places that had springs.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
They would go to improve their health in some way
because of the qualities of the water. And then in
the seventeen hundreds, a couple of enterprising doctors that ran
those kinds of resorts thought they'd get kind of competitive advantage,
or you get a leg up on the competition by
starting to introduce the supposed benefits of seawater. And so
then the first resorts emerged at the seaside that took
(04:25):
advantage of dipping into seawater, ingesting seawater, mixing seawater with
your wine for the health benefits there. And so that's
really where the first seaside resorts were born from.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
You gotta start putting seawater in your wine, my friend,
the salty wine.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
No, Sarah said that starting in the late fifteen hundreds,
doctors began prescribing seawater, bathing in it, and drinking it
to treat all kinds of ailments like heat stroke, melancolia,
digest of issues, tuberculosis, even leprosy.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
And like all good things. And this was eventually capitalized
on with the creation of the seaside resort. And to
be clear, these were not places to have fun and
relax at the time. All right, t t take us
back to the mid eighteenth century, roll that beautiful bean footage.
What was it like to be at a sea resort
at that time?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Okay, so there's this article from the Atlantic called the
Historic Healing Power of the Beach by eighty bron And
so just imagine yourself mid eighteenth century.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
You are going to the spa.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Okay, You're going for treatment, and your treatment resembles something
similar to waterboarding. So you are going to be dunked
in freezing seawater repeatedly until you feel so cold that
it feels like you're suffocating, and you start to feel
terror and panic, and they thought that that was revitalizing.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Then while you're.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Standing there, dripping wet and scared for your life, you
would be pulled from the water and then giving a
vigorous back rub and feet warmers and then thrown onto
dry land for a cup of tea. And what was
supposed to happen was that the adrenaline from the shock
of the cold was supposed to have soothing effects on
(06:23):
the body to calm your anxiety and restore the body
soul balanced. This sounds very stressful to me. How you
gonna spawn to be more stressed.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
If you dunk me in that water and dragged me out,
and all you have for me is a cup of tea.
You better hope I'm did okay kill me because it's
gonna be hail today. You better hope the treatment kills.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So when did we change from this? When did we
go from what sounds like a horror to what I
know as a beach resort.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
The idea of the beach as a place for fun
in the sun started to change in the nineteen hundreds
when Americans started going as a summer destination in Europe.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Even though beach tourism had become very popular, it was
still a winter time activity. You weren't going at the
hottest time of year, so the Americans in the early
nineteen hundreds. Well before even then, the Americans had started
using beaches as an escape from the sweltering cities in
the summer, and then they brought that back over to Europe,
and that's when the seaside beach tourism became this hot weather,
(07:35):
as little on as you can have fun in the
sand kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Up until this point, seaside resorts were still catering to
the most elite and wealthiest people in society, but all
of that changed in the mid nineteenth century after World
War Two, with the growth of the middle class and
more economic travel options like trains, the seaside resort became
a destination for people seeking rest and rehabilitation.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
All of a sudden, it wasn't just the upper classes
that could afford to go on a lengthy beach vacation. Now,
all of a sudden, there's a growing, exploding population that
can afford it also, and so that kind of resulted
in this explosion of tourism in general, but also beach
tourism specifically.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Sarah brought up one more inflection point that is crucial,
and that is the emergence of Hawaii as a vacation destination.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Hawaii was kind of this stepping stone also in the
early nineteen hundreds to more kind of far flung beach tourism.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Before Hawaii, all beach.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Tourism was either in Europe or America, and it was
the first time that travelers from those places were kind
of heading out of a culture that looked just like
their own.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So that's a lot to take in.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah, So to sum it up, there's a lot of
inflection points that led us to where we are today,
one being the beach having medicinal properties. Then beach vacations
become more affordable to more people, and the emergence of
the beach this far away paradise, and all of these
things have led us to where we are today, the
current state of beach tourism.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
One of the things I wanted to do with this
book was kind of make it clear, just like what
a major global industry tourism is.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It's a nine trillion dollar industry.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
It's bigger than cars internationally, it's bigger than food internationally.
A lot of the time it doesn't get covered that
way because so much travel media tends to be inspirational
and service journalism, helping people decide where to go, and
so it hasn't really gotten covered as this serious, major
industry that it is.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yes, bigger than food. Everybody got to.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Eat, I know.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Okay, we're traveling more than everybody has to travel, I know.
And when you think about it with that perspective, it's
really shocking.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Sarah raises a really good point. It feels like now
online people are treating travel like a personality.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
They really think that it is.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I mean, everywhere in ig profiles, they'll say my passport
has this many stamps or I've been in this many countries,
and on the dating apps it's huge. People are like,
don't swipe on me unless you have a passport. I've
been to fifty six countries like home, and so I
(10:20):
get it travels big, but I think I want to understand, like,
even when we talk about the tourism industry, Okay, it
includes those people in the services they need, but what
are other things does it include? So I know we're
talking about resorts and you know, buses to shuttle you
different places, but what else is included in tourism that
I'm not thinking about.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Obviously, you have to include air travel, and it's a major, major,
major part of it. It's also the biggest contributor to
the carbon footprint of tourism. I think you have to include,
you know, food and drink production. A lot of resorts
are now grappling with like do you import French wines
to a place in feed that's so far away or
(11:02):
do you import closer by ones from Australia or something,
And so that kind of import export of especially.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Food and drink, I think is a huge, huge factor.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
So it's not just the hospitality industry. We're also talking
about food and agriculture, transportation, travel agencies and tour companies,
tourism boards, attractions, entertainment.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
All of these things contribute to the scope of the
tourism industry.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Tourism worldwide accounts for ten percent of all jobs worldwide,
so you have to look at the human factor of
their input into this economy and how important that part is.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Also, Sarah clarified that the statistic is from twenty nineteen,
but still ten percent, ten percent.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Of all jobs. That is wild to me.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And so now I think knowing that really puts the
pandemic in perspective, because I mean, I knew there were
a lot of people, but there were a lot a
lot of people who were so suddenly out of work
because no one was going anywhere. And obviously that was
devastating for a lot of economies, and you can imagine
even more so in countries where tourism is the major
(12:12):
part of the economy. So we ask Sarah if she
thinks tourism has changed, and if so, how now that
many travel restrictions are starting to lift.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
I don't know that the pandemic has necessarily changed the
destinations that people are heading to in a long term way.
I think there is a kind of permanent change, or
it looks like it might be permanent change and the
way a lot of people are traveling With this new
environment we have of remote work that seems like it's sticking.
(12:44):
People can travel to places for longer periods of time
work from those places, and we're seeing a lot of
resorts start to cater to that, and we're seeing governments
start to cater to it and offering what's known as
the digital nomad visa. A lot of Caribbean country are
offering them. Italy has recently announced that they're starting one,
(13:04):
Croatia has one. So there's a lot of that happening
and I think that will have a lasting effect.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
On what resources look like and how people use them.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I'd love that she brought up digital nomads because it
feels like this is a trend that has been on
the rise and then accelerated by the pandemic. So a
digital nomad is someone who can do their work online
and remotely, so they can work from really any physical
location wherever they want, all over the world. And a
digital nomad visa allows you to stay in a foreign
(13:35):
country longer than a typical tourist visa, as long as
you aren't entering the local labor market. Yeah, as long
as you're not trying to work in that country, because
if you really a digital nomad, you should have a
job in your home country. Yes, And Sarah says that
there are good and bad sides to digital nomadism.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
In terms of climate change, it's better to take one
flight to a place and stay there for a long
time than it is to take four flights throughout the year.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
On shorter trips. So in that sense, I think it's
considered a good thing.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
I also think that the localities that are trying to
attract digital nomads in this way see it as a
good thing, and that people will have more of an
actual experience with the community and the culture rather than
just dipping out staying in the.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Bubble of the resort.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
They'll actually live in the place, They'll get to know
the place, and in that way it's a richer, better
experience all around for the travelers coming there, for the locals,
for everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
One potential negative.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Of course, would be, you know, it's like the Airbnb
effect of driving up housing costs that you know, I
don't think we've seen evidence of that yet, but just
kind of logically that could be a challenge if digital
nomadism takes off in a huge way.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
I saw an article recently on Travel Noir that said
that Mexico City has gotten a huge influx of digital nomads,
mainly from the United States and Canada, and the permanent
residency applications have double since the pandemic. Wow, Mexicans are
starting to protest this because they're seeing housing and cost
of living prices on the rise, as well as an
(15:09):
increase in gentrification.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And I've seen a lot of things about the residents
of Mexico City, at least complaining about the gentrification and
increasing costs and bad bunnies. Recent documentary talked about some
similar things happening in Puerto Rico, where the government was
making all these tax exemptions for companies, and you know,
companies go places where people are working and doing things
and where it's easier for them to build. We talked
(15:32):
about that in an earlier episode when we were talking
about building semiconductor chip plants, and so, you know, once
a place becomes popular with tourists, it's a chain reaction
with the local economy, and so some folks have been
complaining there's.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
A tourism life cycle that kind of starts in this
exploration stage where just a few intrupid travelers come to
a place, and from there the locals will start offering
services just to those few people, and then a basic
infrastructure gets developed, and then from there outside companies tend
(16:06):
to start to come in and locals start to lose
control of the industry, and so that local economy is
very very important in terms of how it's structured.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
This is really interesting because we recently did an episode
about the United States economy, so we know how quickly
a country's economy can change, and we also know what
some of the driving forces of that change might be
a lot of tourist destinations see that along with increased
popularity among tourists comes economic change that can be quite
a shock to the local economy, and for some locals
(16:39):
that adjustment is not easy, or sometimes it's not even possible.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Who ultimately controls and benefits from beach tourism is really
dependent on local governments. Like local governments have to be
involved in guaranteeing certain land rights, certain ownership rights. The
government's toc who gets the permit to run the resort,
or who is allowed to get the permit.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Sarah cites two examples from her book on how local
governments might affect the ability for indigenous groups to adapt
to growing tourism.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
In Fiji, land rights for the indigenous population are extremely strong.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
They really can't be taken away.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
And it's very strong landforced And because of that, this
village that collectively owned this land now rents it to
a resort and as a result, gets rental income from
this resort kind of guaranteed. And then you compare that
to some of the people that I met in Vietnam.
This man named Hoa in particular, who back in the
nineties opened this guesthouse on the beach and it was
(17:45):
very very popular.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
He was beloved by visitors.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
But then when they started really developing the area for
beach tourism, Vietnam does not have strong land ownership rights.
They have clauses in their law that land can be
taken away for the quote unquote public good, but it's
very vaguely defined what the public good is, and so
he ultimately had his land taken away. Even though he
(18:08):
was a pioneer of making this industry happen there, and
on his land where he ran his little resort is
now a four star resort run by a Spanish company.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
A lot of people don't realize the impacts tourism can
have if the government hasn't set things up correctly for
the indigenous people of that country. And even in the
places where the tourism industry has been alive and well
for decades, we're seeing pushback from indigenous communities who are
fighting against over tourism.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
The most recent example is Hawaii.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
The indigenous Hawaiians themselves who have very much been crowded
out of their own beachfronts and I think are very
frustrated that tourism in Hawaii seems to have been prioritized
by the government over them. Hawaii is suffering a lot
of ecological challenges from tourism now. I cover Waikiki pretty
(19:01):
extensively in the book, and Waikiki is having all kinds
of trouble even keeping a beach in place there now
because of you know, it's been overbuilt so much. And
then there's also no way to have a trip to
Hawaii that is not a long haul flight, right. It's
a long haul flight from everywhere. And so in this
(19:22):
kind of emerging understanding we're having of just how damaging
the air travel part of travel is, a place like
Hawaii really starts to suffer from that challenge.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yo, Hawaii is way further west than I thought. I'd
really like to open up maps and look at that
whole thing. The distance from Now. I don't know if
this is true, but my eyeball distance from the west
coast of California to Hawaii is further than the eastern
coast of South America to the continent of Africa. Yes,
(19:56):
give Hawaii back breath.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
And another important thing to think about is carbon footprint.
And so what a carbon footprint is is the total
amount of greenhouse gases that you generate by your action.
So that can be driving a car, taking a bus,
going on a plane. All of these things have a
carbon footprint. Even ordering online because you know, like we
talked about in our episode about shipping and all the delays,
(20:24):
all of that has a carbon footprint too, because those
items are being put on a truck and each of
those trucks are emitting greenhouse gases. And so when we
think about the context of carbon footprint, when it comes
to air travel. That flight from wherever you are all
the way to Hawaii, that.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Is a significant amount of air pollution.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
We're seeing the same thing happening in Puerto Rico, where
Puerto Rican climate activists are fighting against coastal development and
the privatization of public beaches. And the problem isn't just gentrification,
it's also the coastal erosion that's happening because of climate
change and the dangers that new infrastry ructure along the
coast can bring in the wake of storms like Hurricane
(21:03):
Maria and just recently Hurricane Fiona.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
This is such a great point, and coastal erosion is
the wearing away of the shoreline due to various factors
that interrupt the natural balance between the waves, the currents,
and the wind. So imagine you put a resort right
on that ocean line. That ocean line is going to
feel the weight of that building. Baby Tourism in coastal
(21:27):
communities has huge repercussions for the local ecology as well
as the local economy.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
I think one of the biggest waves that resorts tend
to impact the shorelines is by causing, ironically the beaches
to a road. And when that happens, it has an
impact on the ecosystem the animals that rely on that sand.
Then all of a sudden it might not be there.
The animals that rely on those animals that rely on
(21:53):
the sand might not be there. So it has this
cascading effect. When sand gets kind of circulating in the water,
it blocks sunlight from coral reefs that need sunlight. The
content of the water is not agreeable to some animals anymore.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
At that point, we talked about this delicate balance of
oceanic life with doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, and.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I think it's important to also highlight that, yes, in
some cases it's sand in the ocean and that's blocking
the beach, and that's just downstream effects from more people
being in the kind of shallow waters, right, or more
people in activity. Now that's just like an unintended side effect.
But some beach resorts are actually intentionally disrupting the natural
(22:39):
ecology of a place by important invasive species, which we
talked about with doctor Nicholas Rayo. And one example of
this is the palm tree.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Palm trees are actually not indigenous to most shorelines in
the world, but they get imported to every single resort
that ever opens, and that comes at the expense of
the natural trees that were there and part of the ecosystem.
They require tons of water, They hardly provide any shade,
(23:09):
which we need more and more as temperatures are rising.
I do think that that is something that is now
seeping into our consciousness and probably, you know, fifty years
from now, the palm tree is not going to be
the symbol of tourism, beach tourism that it is now.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And like who decided, I don't even like palm trees.
Who decided that the palm tree was the symbol of
a relaxing vacation. Same with golf courses put put not fun.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Golf courses, which very very often accompany beach resorts, are
just a terrible, terrible ecological presence. The fertilizers and stuff
that are required to keep these large swaths of land
green in places that are not supposed to be that
green inevitably runs off into the ocean and rereaks all
(23:58):
kinds of havoc on the ocean life the ecosystem there,
and they clear out all the natural vegetation that exists
in a place and kind of create this monoculture that
is not helpful at all to the local ecosystem.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Let's take a break and when we get back, we're
talking more with Sarah Sidola about how to take all
of this into consideration when planning future travel.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
We're back, but before we get to the lab, two
quick notes. The first note is that our final lab
is on October twenty seventh, and we want to hear
from you. What's been your favorite lab this semester? What
else do you want us to talk about? Call us
and tell us at two zero two five six seven
seven zero two eight. You can also email us at
contact at Dope labspodcast dot com if you're feeling a
(24:59):
little shy. Also, next week, we're going to be covering
how social media has been changing so fast and what
that might mean for future generations. So we'll be talking
with Professor Jeff Hancock, who is the founder of the
Stanford Social Media Lab. You don't want to miss it.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
All right, let's get back to the lab.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
We've been talking to Sarah Stidola about the tourism industry
and specifically its effects on local economies. So in learning this,
how do you reconcile the desire to travel and take vacations.
How do we take these things into consideration when we
plan future travel? We act Sarah if she had a
framework for making these decisions.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
I don't think the answer is to ask people or
expect people to stop traveling trying to take trips that
don't involve so many long flights.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Especially long flights I think is good.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
That's not saying don't ever take them, but just be
very cognizant of you know, is this particular trip worth
this long haul flight. I think it's something really important
to start thinking about.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And Sarah says, if you hang around long enough, the
government might start making those decisions for you. So in
France and the UK, for example, governments are starting to
create policies that incentivize forms of travel other than flying,
and at the same time they're also discouraging frequent flyer programs.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
We need something like that in the United States so
that Kylie Jenner and Taylor Swift can't take any more
ten minute flights.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Did you see that?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
No, they are ten minute flights.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Ten minute flights. Now.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I know the traffic in la is bad, but your
carbon footprint is the size of a t Rent.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Sarah also stressed the importance of trying to support local
businesses as much as possible.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
I think one really important thing is to try to
stay in places that are locally owned or locally managed
or both. You know, the direct benefit to local communities
that way is much greater, and I think doing that
also results in a better trip for you or for
whoever is traveling. I think you get a lot more
out of that direct contact with the local culture and community.
(27:15):
Same goes for restaurants. Instead of eating at like a
major resorts restaurant, try to eat a locally owned place.
If you're at the beach, use reef safe sunscreen. Those
are all things you can do to at least not
be making the situation worse.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
If you're taking a flight somewhere, Sarah recommends doing your
research and looking into buying carbon offsets.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
So carbon offsets are something that you can buy and
just like the name implies, it's meant to offset the
carbon imprint from a flight. So the most kind of
straightforward one is, you know, you can buy offsets from
companies that will plant a certain number of trees or
plant a certain amount of vegetation in order to offset
(28:01):
the carbon output from your flight.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Well, who's gonna offset it from the palm trees? And
you know, the major caveat here is that these programs
are not perfect. So I don't want to say at best,
but at medium, you're gonna feel less guilty about your trip.
You know, that could be its own show about how
the carbon offset programs work.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean, and we talked about this in other episodes,
where you know, you should stop drinking oat milk, you
should drink soy milk because of this, that and the
other thing. All of these things are little steps in
the right direction, and we're all trying to have a
positive impact in every space that we're in when it
comes to being more eco friendly.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
So this whole episode has really made me think a
lot about traveling, of course, but it also made me
think about some of my favorite travel bloggers. And one
of my favorites is Nia Chauvin, also known as Born
a Backpacker, and she has a blog that I really love.
I follow her on Instagram and her blog website, and
she gives you tips and tricks about how to save
(29:09):
money while you're traveling, how to be eco friendly while
you're traveling, And so we asked her to talk to
us about the travel that she does with her family
and give us some tips and tricks about how to
have a positive impact on the communities that we're visiting
while we're traveling.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
I'm Nia Chauvin and I travel half the year with
my husband and our three children, who are currently six, three,
and one, and I document our travels through a blog.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Born a backpacker.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
Traveling together as a family is important for me because one,
it's core to who I was and what I love
to do before becoming a mother, so I didn't want
to lose that part of me. And second, and even
more important, showing my children other cultures, traditions, foods, languages, fosters.
I believe understanding, acceptance and respect for people with all
(30:04):
different backgrounds. Our typical length of stay in a country
is about two months, and when we travel, we really
try to do it as eco friendly as possible. The
most deliberate we are about traveling in an eco friendly
way is deciding where we put our dollars and ensuring
(30:24):
it goes directly to locals, specifically with accommodation and food,
because that's where we spend the most money. It sometimes
takes some digging, but we always try to stay at
places that are locally owned, whether it be a hotel, Airbnb,
or a home stay with a family. And the same
goes for restaurants we eat at. We always search for
(30:44):
the local spots that make food from the region, with
food from the region grown in the region. Not only
is that considered ecotourism, but it's also better food for me.
Putting money directly in locals pockets is the best way
we can leave a positive impact. And with a long
(31:05):
list of things, I would encourage people to try and
adopt as many as possible, but know that no one
is perfect. We just have to make an effort and
make some sacrifices to do what we can to be
responsible in ethical travelers.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
I'm actually in Peru right now and I am definitely
taking these recommendations to heart.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
We're eating local, we are.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Making sure that we're spending our money in local environments,
not going to any big chains, and it feels really
good to support the local Peruvian people.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
And so I think that's a great start. TT and
you did it on a dime, right, And so when
we look to the future of tourism, what might vacations
look like in a future where we're all kind of
modeling after you and trying to thrive as a global community.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I think beach resorts will survive.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
I don't think that fifty years from now we're not
going to have beach resorts anymore, but I do think
that they are going to have to look very different
than they do today. I think that resorts are no
longer going to be built right up at the sand anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
We're already seeing a lot of countries implement.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
Laws called step back laws, and it means that no
new construction can happen within it's usually something like fifty
meters of the high tideline. We're going to be seeing
kind of embracing the natural environment along with the beach
a little more. We'll see what happens with air travel.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
You know.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
The interesting thing about air travel is that it is
getting more efficient all the time. So on a per
flight basis, it's much more efficient, has much less of
a carbon imprint than it did twenty years ago. But
overall air travel has grown so much that the overall
carbon footprint of air travel is just still kind of
growing exponentially. So hopefully, in this optimistic scenario, we get
(32:51):
to a point where air travel is no longer the
super problematic element that it is today and are we
going to be there?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Is?
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Probably not, but maybe in twenty or thirty years will
be there.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Okay, it's time for the one thing tt I think
our collective one thing is Sarah Stodola's book.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yes, you should definitely pick up Sarah Stodola's book, The
Last Resort, A chronicle of paradise, profit and Peril.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
At the Beach.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
I really enjoyed reading this book. I learned so much
about the tourism industry, how it started, how we got
to where we are today. I mean, if you really
liked this episode, you will really enjoy Sarah's book, So
make sure you pick that up. Also, follow our friend
Nia Chauvin at Born and Backpacker on Instagram and subscribe
to her blog.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
It's so fun.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Her kids are so cute and she has really amazing
content on Instagram, TikTok and her blog.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
So check it all out.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
And if you want to know more about your carbon footprint,
if you want to calculate it, figure it out, how
you can adjust it with travel and how that changes,
go to the show notes and we're gonna have a
link to a carbon footprint calculator from the Nature Conservancy
so you can look at that.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
That's very cool.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
I want to know mine. I saw the averages sixteen tons.
I don't think I put out sixteen tons.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
That's for an American because Americans are the worst. That's
one of the highest rates in the world. Globally, the
average carbon footprint is four tons.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Okay, we've got a problem, America. Yes, we've got a problem, Beyonce. Already,
America has got a Problemonzade.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Will also have a link to that song for you.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Go tt we Love you, Beyonce.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
That's it for Lab eighty one. Are you taking any
trip soon? Where are you going?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Call us at two zero two five six seven seven
zero two eight and tell us what you thought, Or
call us and tell us about your favorite lab from
this semester. Remember, our finale is coming up and we
want to hear from you. That's two zero two five
six seven seven zero two eight.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
And don't forget there's so much more for you to
dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat sheet
for today's lab and additional links and resources in the
show notes. Plus you can sign up for our newsletter.
Check it out at Dope labspodcast dot com. Special thanks
to today's guest expert, Sarah Stadola.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
You can find her on Twitter at s Stadola S
S t O d O l A, and you can
find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast.
Tt is on Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore T
s h O, and you can find Zakia at z
said So. Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from
(35:48):
Mega Ohm Media Group. Our producers are Jenny Radlett Mast
and Lydia Smith of WaveRunner Studios. Our associate producer is
Caro Rolando. Editing and sound design by Rob's Smrzek with
additional mixing and sound design by Hannis Brown. Original music
composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Zugia from
(36:09):
Spotify Creative producer Miguel Contreras. Special thanks to Shirley Ramos
Jess Forreson, Till krat Key and Brian Marquis executive producers
from Mega Own Media Group rs T T Show, Dia
and Zakiyah Wattley.
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