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November 18, 2021 34 mins

The holiday season is here, and with that, comes a lot of anxiety. In her new book, “Good Anxiety: Harnessing the Power of the Most Misunderstood Emotion,” guest Dr. Wendy Suzuki traces the origins of anxiety, why it’s so prevalent today (spoiler alert: EVERYONE has it), and how to make it work for us. 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know what happened to me this morning? What I
looked at my calendar. This is what I do at
the beginning of each day. I wake up, look at
my calendar and make sure, like I know when all
of my Zoom meetings are. And I didn't see anything
until ten thirty. It was something I had with you,
So I was like, Okay, I get to see my friend.
So I'm just walking around the house in my pjs
and then I get an email from somebody saying, here's

(00:21):
the Zoom link, see you soon, and I panicked. I
was like, what is this for? What am I doing?
What's going on? This has to be wrong. So I'm
looking up every calendar I had. I look at the
calendar that I write down in the calendar on my phone,
the calendar on my computer. I'm just trying to figure
out what's going on. And then I finally figured it out.
I had forgotten that I had a meeting, and I, well,

(00:42):
did you have time to prepare for it? No, there
was no time. There was no time at all. I
only had time to run upstairs, throw a turtleneck on
over my pajamas and get in front of the camera.
And they were like good morning TZ and I was like,
good morning, Hoddy, It's so great to see you. I
didn't even know what I was supposed to be doing.
I was like, I'm just gonna have to wing this.

(01:03):
Do you know how stressful that is?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Listen, that's stressful for anybody, but I know it's stressful
for my friend because you like to plan. The only
good part of that story is that you were able
to throw on a turtleneck right. Yes, we love turtlenecks.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
I have an emergency turtleneck that is right next to
my bed, just in.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Case you just turned writing to Steve Jobs. Man, I
know you were stressed out. That would be tough evil
for me. You know, I'm okay with being last minute, but.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
I don't know how you do it.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
You don't know what's going on. You just clicking into
the zoom. You don't know what you're gonna get.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
I don't know who's going to be there. I didn't
know what they're about to ask me. I just knew
that I had to be there and that I had
two minutes to get there.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
And I would have had to say I'm sorry, I
thought this was spam.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Link only.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I thought you were hacked. I saw your link, but
I also saw an email from you about gift cards.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Welcome to Doe Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science,
pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship. You know,
we're basically at the holidays, and for a lot of
people that means a lot of anxiety. Yes, whether you're
cooking for a big group of folks or reconnecting with
your family members after a very long time, the holidays
just have a way of feeling so challenging, and they

(02:32):
can really be filled with all kinds of anxieties from
day to day. I always think about you when the
holiday season comes around, because you are the hostess with emostess,
and I always felt like it's rare that Zakida is
not going to be cooking something, even if it's something
small like Okay, we're not doing a whole turkey. I'm
just gonna do like a turkey breast for me and

(02:53):
a couple of people. But it's always to me a
lot of stuff, So I know I'm over here feeling
anxious for you. For you, it's probably not always a
lot of fun. So one man's anxiety is another men's party.
So this week we're talking all about anxiety, and specifically,

(03:16):
we really wanted to know more about whether or not
we can actually take our everyday anxiety and spin it
into something that can help us.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Let's get into the recitation.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
What do we know? Well, I think that anxiety is
something that a lot of people deal with, Like, some
people don't like to use the term anxiety, but I
think everybody at some point in their lives have felt anxious. Yes,
it also feels like it's being talked about way more
than it used to be. I feel like I see

(03:51):
it everywhere, people talking about it, social media sharing about
anxiety and tips and tools and tricks. So I do
like the openness around anxiety. Yeah, there have been a
lot of people who have said I struggle with anxiety.
These are the things that you know, I don't like.
Do people that you would, I guess assume like the
type of industry there in, whether they're actors or influencers
or YouTubers, and you're just really surprised that this is

(04:14):
something that they deal with. But it also, you know,
makes a lot of people feel seen because it's like, Okay,
it's not just me, it's also these other people that stereotypically,
I guess people would think wouldn't deal with anxiety. I
think another thing that we know is that anxiety is
not binary, like you're anxious or you're not. There's a
spectrum of anxieties that you can feel, and how it

(04:34):
manifest is different from person to person.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
And I think we also know that manifestation does have
some biological underpinnings. I don't know what they are, but
I do know that there is something that can happen
to your body after a lot of anxiety over and
over and over again.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's a really good point. So what do we want
to know?

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Has anxiety always been around?

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Like?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Is it new? You think the cavemen were anxious?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I mean, I don't know, but it seems like there
was plenty to be uncertain about during those times.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah. I just think about Fred Flinstone and I'm like, yeah,
he was definitely had an anxiety problem. Another thing I
want to know is what parts of our anxiety are healthy?
Is there a such thing as healthy anxiety? Is there
like little bits of like anxiousness that might help us?
Or is it just all bad?

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah that's a really good point. And then if it
is all bad, what can we do? Yes, help throw
me a life jacket, a rope something. How do I
exit this program? That's what I want to do. Let's
jump into the dissection. Our guest for today's lab is

(05:42):
doctor Wendy Suzuki.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Hi.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
I'm doctor Wendy Suzuki. I am a professor of neuroscience
and psychology. I've been at New York University for twenty
three years. So I am an author, a teacher, and
a neuroscientist.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Doctor Suzuki's new book is called Good Anxiety, Harnessing the
Power of the most Misunderstood Emotion. It's not like a
lot of other books out there that provide tips for
managing anxiety. With this book, doctor Suzuki goes back to
the origins of anxiety, how it's evolved, and why it's
such a big problem today. With that groundwork as the
basis for our understanding, she introduces a new way to

(06:18):
really think about our anxiety, and that way will kind
of help us harness its power so that we can
lead healthy, happy lives. Let me tell y'all, we need
this yet. So I think we're all pretty familiar with anxiety,
what it is and how it feels, especially after the
last few years.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Anxiety is that fear or worry that typically comes with
uncertain situations, And so with that definition, you could understand
why these days, in our uncertain times, anxiety is really.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Going through the roof.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
And I think now's a good time to kind of
pause and differentiate between a couple different types of anxiety, because,
like you said earlier, TT, anxiety really is a spectrum.
So today we're talking about anxiety on the lower end
of that spectrum, which not the Suzuki calls every day anxiety,
but that's very different from clinical anxiety, which is at
the opposite end of the spectrum. Clinical anxiety is a

(07:09):
medical disorder characterized by intense, excessive, and persistent worry and fear.
Clinical anxiety is debilitating. It gets in the way of
your ability to live your life day to day, and
it should be diagnosed and treated by medical professionals. While
every day anxiety might not be all consuming, is definitely
annoying and exhausting, and it's way more common than you

(07:30):
might think.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
It feels like a weight around your neck, it feels
like a weight on your chest, and even before the pandemic,
the stat that blew me away is that ninety percent
of Americans before the pandemic raised their hands and said,
I experience anxiety ninety percent, So imagine what that number
is today. So basically all of us have anxiety, is
the bottom line.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Ninety percent is a really high number, and that's before
one of the most stressful things that any of us
have been through in our lifetime, right, so I can
only imagine what the number is now.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
One hundred percent. You know, this makes me think back
to LAP thirty two with an Helen Peterson where we
talked about burnout and all these other things that can
kind of trigger or layer multiple different types of anxieties
and manifest in different ways. Absolutely, and what this also.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Says to me is that if you're feeling anxious, you
are not alone. Look to left and to the right.
It's all of us.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Turn to your neighbor alone and say, neighbor, do you
have any kind of types of low grade or everyday anxiety?
Like how does it show up for you?

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah? I think for me, I've always thought of myself
as just the overall anxious person, Like I try and
not expose people to my anxieties and just try and
counterbalance it with like just extreme like positivity as often
as I can, but that also makes me even more
anxious because it doesn't address the real problem. Like I think,

(08:54):
I'm always worrying about every little thing, like, oh my gosh,
is this the right decision? Is this the right next step?
Is just the right thing for me to do? And
I think that usually it manifests me getting at some
point really really exhausted and tired from just like my
brain doing all of these calculations and trying to predict
the future. Yeah, what about you.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
I think you know, over the past couple of years,
I've either developed more anxiousness or anxiety or just become
more aware of it. Right. I think now the things
that kind of trigger anxiety for me are big uncertainties.
I mean, you know me, I'm generally like, huh, we'll
figure it out. Oh this will happen.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
My friend is cool as a cucumber, But big level
stuff that could have major rippling effects. I like to
kind of know. I like to have those general, large
what do you call those like place markets. I like
to have those things set in stone, and when I'm
not sure, it feels like the scientific mind gone haywire, right,
it's just a lot of hypotheses, no conclusions, no conclusions.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
I feel that. I feel that. So we all have
everyday anxiety, and we've all got our own ways of
dealing with it. Then why are we talking about it today?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, doctor Suzuki says that even if you and your
anxiety have quote unquote an understanding with each other and
it's something you've just learned to live with over time,
it can still have very real and potentially serious effects
on your overall health.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Because anxiety and the underlined stress response, if left unchocked,
leads to high levels of chronic stress, high levels of
chronic cortisol, that stress hormone.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Cortisol is like your body's built in alarm system, and
it does all kinds of important stuff like regulating blood pressure.
It can increase blood sugar, keep your inflammation in check.
It even can control the sleep wake cycle. So you
can imagine if the cortisol levels in your blood are
out of whack, it can do a lot of scary
things in the body.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
I have not heard of cortisol, but I've heard of cortizone.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Are they related closely related? Like if you get a
cortizone shot or a hydrocortisone shot. It's converted in the
body by an enzyme into cortisol, Okay, And so it
can also be used like when you say treating inflammation.
If you know somebody got a courtizone shot in their
knee or something like that. Yeah, there you have it.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
And so you can imagine that abnormal levels lead to
all kinds of health issues, not just in the digestive system,
the heart, or the reproductive system. You can also affect
the brain.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Finally, in the brain, it leads to first damage and
then death of two key brain areas that I've studied
for a long time in my career. The hippocampus, critical
for memory, and the prefuntal cortex are executive control function
of the brain, helping you make good decisions. Imagine brain

(11:48):
cells in those areas being damaged, and particularly in the
hippa campus, dying because of high levels of long term
stress and anxiety. That is why we want to talk anxiety,
find a different way to channel it so that you
don't go down that route.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
That's scary. But doctor Suzuki's book isn't all doom and gloom.
She argues that by really understanding our anxiety, it can
actually be a really good thing.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Anxiety is one of our core emotions. It serves something
really important. Once we find that thing and we understand
that thing that it serves, we can kind of try
and focus the energy and the level of that emotion
so that it could help us. We're still going to
feel those uncomfortable emotions, but we're going to make it

(12:34):
work for us in a brand new way.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
That's exactly what I'm looking for. Help me figure out
how to make anxiety work work for me. Yes, put
these nerves to work right. And so I think the
starting place is for us to understand why we're having
anxiety at all. What's the point.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Anxiety at its core is protective for us. It's actually
essential for our survival. And the best way to understand
this is to kind of travel back in your mind
two point five million years ago and imagine there's a
woman two point five million years ago. She just has
a little baby, and she's gathering berries at the edge
of a lake, and suddenly she hears a twig crack,

(13:14):
and that could be danger. That could be a lion,
that could be a tiger, that could be something that
could kill her and her baby. And so that is
when anxiety is immediately deployed and the stress response.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
And the stress response is what many of us know
as fight or flight mechanism. Through a series of really
complex interactions in our brain and body, it enables us
to respond almost instantly to a perceived threat of danger.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
And what I illustrate in the book is that in fact,
we use that same exact system in a similar way.
If there is a noise by the window, then you
have that stress response, that anxiety response what is is
it a robber and works in the same way. But
the problem is that in this day and age, it's
the equivalent of hearing those twigs crack five times a second.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
So what doctor Suzuki is saying is that we're all
in the forest picking berries and we're constantly surrounded by lions.
Everything that's happening is making this think is that a lion?
Is that a lion? Is that a lion? Over and
over and over again.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
What kind of life is this?

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Okay, I might be exaggering a little bit, so maybe
it's not as immediately threatening as a lion, But that's
what so many things that are.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Stressing us out. Do youar At the very beginning of
the pandemic, That's what it felt like. I felt like
every single person was a lion with coronavirus and they
were just ah in my face, and I was going
to get sick or pass it on to somebody else.
Everything felt that anxious. Going to the grocery store, Oh,
that was the most I would be in the grocery store,

(14:45):
sweating through my clothes because I was so nervous about everything,
and then disinfecting all the groceries. Everything was a lion,
including that bag of chips.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
And so when you think about something like that collectively
that we're all going through. But then people can have
their own personal issue, so like the everyday stress of
their job or relationships, and then there's the bigger global
issues like climate change or political insurrection. That's a lot
of twigs. Those are some of those are branches. So
those are trees falling tree a tree.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Okay, it ain't no branch, it's a tree falling on
your neck. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
And then even if you're in your home insulated from
all those things, it's coming right through your cell phone,
it's coming right up on your TV alerts. At the bottom.
You know, information about what's happening in the world is
constantly going right to your eyeballs no matter where you look.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
I have never thought about that, how the information age
has introduced levels of stress into our lives that weren't
there previously. Yeah, that's such a good point, Zee, but
I don't want to live in this professional anxious state
that's not actually helping protect against any of the threats,
and as doctor Suzuki explained earlier, it can actually be

(15:55):
really unhealthy in the long term. It's not making us
feel protected at all. System it feels like it's kind
of broken.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
And my answer is it's not broken. The volume is
just turned way too high and we've lost that protective
aspect of this emotion.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
First things first, I never thought of anxiety as an
emotion before. I don't think I really have either. I've
just looked at it as a deficiency. Yeah, I mean,
it makes total sense, and it actually helps put it
in perspective because emotions pass. Anxiety is not forever. And
if we think of it, like she said, as something
that's turned up too high, maybe we can be aware
of these things when we just need to turn the
volume down.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
A little bit more.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
The first step of that is turning the volume down
so that we don't have so many twigs cracking all
the time and just launching us into this stress and
anxiety cycle. The best first way is my favorite way,
because it is deep breathing. You might say, oh, I've
heard that before, but did you know that deep breathing

(16:53):
is actually activating a natural stress reduction center of our
nervous system.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Okay, so we gotta pause right there. I did not
know that we had a stress reduction center in our
nervous system.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Nobody taught me that.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
I thought I had to purchase that on Amazon sage.
What is it? Lavender? They put lavender at everything to
tell you relax. I didn't know that I had built
in lavender.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
How come everybody knows about fight or flight and nobody
knows about rest and digest?

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Rest and digests? We need that on the T shirt.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Ste preach.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yes, the neuroscientists among us also know this as the
parasympathetic nervous system.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
That sounds very fond.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
See, I like rest and digest better, and.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
So the best way we have conscious control of kind
of getting that process going is deep breathing. I can't
consciously decrease my heart rate, but I can slow my
breathing down.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
And another way to turn down the volume on our
anxiety is through exercise, even just ten minutes of walking. Oh,
I know, I know you don't like it.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
I know you don't like it. Can we give this part?
But tit?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
I'm telling you. Doctor Suzuki talks about doing this experiment
and having people just walk at the end, and people
report it, you know, feeling less stress. Now, whether it's
just in the mind or not. I want to feel
less stressed, and so I will be taking a ten
minute walk because I need that positive effect.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
My friend b bike in thirty miles. A ten minute
walk ain't nothing, but for me, that is a hike.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Listen, I need it.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Every single time you move your body, you are stimulating
a whole wide range of neurochemicals to be released in
your brain. I like to give the image of a
neurochemical bubble back that you're giving yourself every time you
move your body. And what is in this bubble bass
things that you have heard of, dopamine, serotonin, neu adrenaline,

(18:49):
and growth factors. It is clear that long term exercise
can help protect the brain from aging and neurodegeneral disease states.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Once we turn the volume down on our anxiety, we
can then take the next important step, which is to
interpret it. Focus in on those uncomfortable feelings of anxiety
and ask ourselves, what's making me so anxious and why
am I feeling so anxious? This introspection can tell you
a lot about yourself and what's important to you.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
I know, for me, my dad used to always say,
if you're not nervous, it just means you're not taking
it serious enough. I don't know if I still agree
with this, it means you care school thought. But I
think wanting to do well, wanting to show up, those
are the things that can make me anxious because I
don't want to not do those things. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, I think that there are lots of groups of
people that feel like they have to do that all
the time and that can be exhausted. Show up and
be perfect.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
I had to give up perfectly a long time ago, girl,
I mean, just show up a little bit. But I
think once we start asking ourselves those questions TT it
really is is kind of harnessing that power. And I
want to get to the part where not Thissuszuki can't
help me make it work for me in a positive way.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
Actually, one of the things that I learned that was
most surprising that I learned from writing the book is
I found myself making friends with my own anxiety. Why
because I started to appreciate how valuable these uncomfortable emotions were.
They're there to say, hey, this is important. It's a
threat detection system. This is important that you do well here.

(20:32):
It means a lot to you.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
So it sounds like your dad wasn't wrong. Okay, oh
I know.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
I hope he doesn't hold the curtains.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
You weren't wrong. I'm here to say it. I'll send
you a text message later. Being stressed out can me
you care about something because you really want to do well,
and this is really helpful. I feel like quieting the
noise with a deep breath and then asking important questions.
Making observations about our anxiety are already so helpful.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, I think it's it's so important to first acknowledge
and then slow the pace down a little bit and
say it's not a lion. It's not a lion. That's
way better already than just I'm gonna power through this
or I'm gonna shove these feelings down.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Doctor Suzuki says, we can even take it one step further.
Once we understand and observe our anxiety, we can actually
see it for the gift that it is, and we'll
talk about that right after the break. We're back and

(21:44):
we want to tell you all about next week's lab.
One thing I'm really stressed out about is thinking about
Christmas shopping.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Oh that makes me excited for next week's lab though.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yes, because we're talking all about the shipping issues that
have been going on since the pandemic started in this
whole trucker shortage that the kid knew about that no
clue what's going on, and.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
We're talking about it just in time for Black Friday.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
M hm. Okay, so let's get back into the dissection.
We're talking to doctor Wendy Suzuki about her new book
Good Anxiety, and before.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
We dig any deeper, we just want to level set
and remind everybody that we're talking about day to day anxiety.
If you're experiencing severe anxiety that interferes with your ability
to do day to day activities, we really encourage you
to seek help from a medical professional, and we've also
included some resources on our show notes at dope lavspodcast
dot com.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
We've already talked about how to turn down the volume
on our anxiety and observe it, and just doing that
can be helpful.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
But doctor Suzuki.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Says that once we're able to quiet the noise and
listen to our anxiety, we can actually use it to
our advantage.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
So let's take an example. What's one of the most
common things that you do as a result of your anxiety,
and how can you make it work for you. Doctor
Suzuki mentions the what if list.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
My what if list hits right before I'm going to
go to sleep, and you know sleep is coming, is
going to feel so good, and then sudden, what if
I didn't send that email? Or what if I did
send the email and you know my wording was wrong.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I think we've all been there. I will wake up
in the middle of the night and mean, like, oh man,
what if I didn't turn off the stove, or did
I lock the front door, or oh my goodness, I
forgot to update that document from my boss, and so
now I'm scrambling.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Honey, at least you are waking up when I tell
you I cannot go to sleep if I am anxious
about things, or if I am what if this and this?
What does that mean? Why did they say that? I
should have said this? It's just ongoing. And then I
look at my Apple Watch and it's like four fifty
seven am.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
No oh, no, friend, that sounds awful.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
So how do we turn that into a gift? What's
the magic spell?

Speaker 3 (23:43):
The gift that comes. It's a gift of productivity, and
that gift is switching your what if list into a
to do list.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
I said, okay, that's okay.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
I'm going to note all those things down and I'm
going to take action on them tomorrow. And why does
that help? It helps because anxiety and the threat response
evolved for us to take action in terms of the
fighting or running away. That is a physical action, and
so you can relieve some of that pressure by taking
a cognitive action sending an email, which is kind of

(24:17):
an action. You know, your fingers are moving. It's a
cognitive action, but it is one that will help you
turn your anxiety what if list into a productive.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
To do list.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
You know what, I really like this and I hadn't
thought about it, but I use this journaling app, and
so if I'm up late and I'm feeling like that,
I write all those feelings down and I can make
little bullet point lists in there about things I should
do blah blah blah blah blah, and sometimes that helps.
Is this the same thing that makes.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
A lot of sense. It's kind of like redirecting your energy.
Like instead of just letting those things roll around in
your head and so you're tossing and turned into the bed,
you push that energy into that journal and be done
with it and you don't have to worry about like
what if I forget right? And it's great because you're
not surrendering to your anxiety and giving up the sleep

(25:05):
that you need to be able to be productive the
next day.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, so you kind of get to prioritize rest and
you get to say, Okay, anxiety and all the stuff
is tied to I'll deal with y'all tomorrow, rest and digest.
But I think all of this really lives in this
like delicate balance though tt If you give too little
attention to your anxiety, you're going to drop a bunch
of balls or things that you need to get done
and then You're gonna be anxious about that. If you
give it too much attention, you're gonna spiral into you know,

(25:30):
anxiety tornado. And so I'm really curious about the sweet
spot and I hope it's broad, and I hope it's big.
You right, If it's as thin as a hair, we're
not gonna hit it.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yes, activation energy comes from focus, it comes from attention.
It comes from that nervous energy that is really equivalent
to anxiety. As that goes up, your performance goes up.
As your focus productivity, and in fact anxiety goes up,
your performance goes up up to a peak.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
You know what this makes me think about what procrastination?
I work best under some pressure?

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Can you say this all the time? I am the opposite.
When the pressure is on, my nerves get so bad
that I feel like I am going to mess this up.
I mean, it usually turns out okay if I like
accidentally procrastinate, but oh my gosh, I feel like a
lot of people feel this way. Where putting it off
the last minute and all of those juices are flowing
and your anxieties hitting the right spot, all the good

(26:28):
things come together.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, it's like putting fuel and answer in the gas
than you know, because I'm the exact opposite. I don't
want to be stressed out about something that's not coming
right away right because I'm like, please move that out
of my view. You're blocking the picture. But it also
feels like I'm just idling. It's just burning gas for
something that's not really a go. And because of the
type of person I am, I can give it as

(26:49):
much time as is available. So I prefer if we
keep that time short. I can just be efficient in
that window.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
I remember when I was packing for a trip, and
if it's a big trip where I'm going to be
even the country, I like to start packing like three
weeks prior to take off. I feel like I need
that time to be able to say, okay, let me
make sure I have these things. I make a list
of all the things that I want to take my friend.
It never fails. The night before one am like, what

(27:16):
are you doing? Oh? Packing for my international trip tomorrow
for today in a few hours, And I'm like, oh
my god, what if you forget something? She's like, it'll
be fine.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
They'll sell me another one. And our last trip together,
you didn't have toothpaste and I had it, got my toothpaste,
you see how that works. And she had it, and
she gave me the whole tube.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
She said, just take it. I had to.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
I just feel like, you know, that's also what happens
when you packed last minute. Just I don't know if
I put that in there. Another one. I think we
need to rebrand procrastination because maybe it's a life hack,
you know, maybe it's my best self.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
I think depending on who you are, it can be.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
But you also got to tell the truth because sometimes
I don't hit the mark, but we won't get into that.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
But then it can go over so too much activation,
too much nervous energy, too much anxiety, and decreasing performance
if it goes too high.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Is that how you feel like it gets too high
too close.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
To the end. Yeah, but the runway for it being
too high is big for me, Like if it's a
week before that's when I'm like, okay, I'm in trouble,
even though I'm not it's totally fine. That's the place
where I'm trying to get into and trying to use
some of these things that doctor Suzuki is talking about,
where it's like, okay, write down these things so that
you feel like, Okay, this time, I'm gonna tackle it,
so it doesn't have to be so much nervous energy, right,

(28:40):
But like, as things get closer and closer, oh my gosh,
I feel like I'm staring down a freight train.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Well, hopefully you can find that window of when you're
just like really focused, really productive, and just on it,
because I know I miss mine sometimes. Yeah, And I
think it's about too close to the mark.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
I think it's about also being patient with yourself so
you can figure out what your sweet spot is. Like
I don't think I'm going to be able to figure
it out today, but maybe over the next you know,
a few weeks or months, I can try some things
out and see what feels good. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Doctor Suzuki says that with more practice, people can learn
how to get in the zone more consistently and use
the energy from their anxiety to propel them forward.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
It is really valuable to appreciate that there is an
optimum level of focus and anxiety, so that focus can
increase with anxiety, but too high and you start decreasing
your performance level. And part of the kind of the
goal of the book is to make people aware that

(29:39):
they've already experienced this, and can they get their kind
of use their own awareness of this to kind of
push their own focus and anxiety to that optimum.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Level so we can leverage our anxiety and unlock our
inner superhero. And that sounds so much better than just
you know, stuff and down. Yes, my superhero power is
last minute Larry. Okay, you need something done at the
last minute, You're like, I only have fifteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Can you review these slots?

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Absolutely? Okay. My superhero is planned Patty. Okay, she has lists,
she's got everything organized, and she's gonna make sure that
in advance, you know what's expected, all right, So we
really want to know what you identify as. Are you

(30:31):
a plan Patty or a last minute Larry? Look in
your Spotify app right now. There should be a poll
that pops up and let us know who you identify
with me Planned Patty. Where's the key a last minute Larry?

Speaker 2 (30:50):
All right, it's time for one thing t t what's
one thing you've been enjoying this week? Okay, the one
thing I've been enjoying this week is that my dad
he actually gave me a bunch of old videos from
the late eighties early nineties, and I was able to
use this company called eye Memories, and I sent all
of the videos to them, and they were able to
digitize all those videos so that we can actually watch

(31:12):
them because they're all old VHS's and I could tell
some of them were starting to degrade and my dad.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
I knew my dad really wanted those videos. So I
used eye Memories and we got all those videos back
and it was amazing to watch with my family and
see what we were like in the early nineties. It
felt like it was yesterday and a million years ago.
It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
So you can just watch them on your phone.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
You can watch them on your phone. You can download
them and put them onto your computer. So I was
able to download all of them and put them into
the cloud so that all of my family can see it.
I've been texting like my uncles and my cousins different
clips and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
That's wow, because I didn't receive any Oh you said
you shared them with Wow. You said all your family though, right, Oh.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yes, you're let me you know what some of these things,
you know, my phone be acting up.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
I would hope that's what it is. Yeah, that's what
it is. Okay, okay, what's your one thing? My one
thing has been on television this week. I have really
jumped into BMF, which is a TV show about the
Flinnery Brothers from Detroit. Now, I know we just talked
about anxiety. Let me tell you what they were doing,
which is illegally hustling. That would cause a lot of anxiety.

(32:23):
But it's really interesting to see the origins of BMF.
I know of BMF from a really different perspective, which
is from hip hop, So fabulous and Young Jeezy. We're
represented and promoted by BMF.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
When I what does a BMF stand for?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Black Mafia Family?

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Okay, so say that out loud. Did something happen to us?

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Do we not know? That only happens if you say
jabrin in the you have to say it three times.
We're to be, you know, an issue. But yeah, So
that's what I've been watching and I just caught up.
I'm on episode six. It is so good.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
I'm gonna have to check that out.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, that's it for Lab thirty eight. We want to
know your thoughts. Do you have any secrets to making anxiety.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Work for you?

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Please tell us? Call us at two o two five
six seven seven zero two eight and leave a message,
or you can give us an idea for a lab
we should do this semester we want to hear from you.
That's two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight.
And don't forget, Semester four is going to be exclusive
to Spotify for free starting December sixteenth, So if you
already listen to us on Spotify, keep doing what you're doing,

(33:26):
and don't forget to follow Dope Labs and tap the
bill icon so you never missed when an episode drops. Now,
after December sixteenth, you won't be able to hear new
episodes of Dope Labs anywhere else, So if you don't
listen to us on Spotify, be sure to follow us
on over here, where you can listen to Dope Labs
plus all of your other favorite shows for free.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
And don't forget there's so much more to dig into
on our website. There'll be a cheap cheat for today's lab,
additional links and resources in the show notes. Plus you
can sign up for our newsletter, so check it out
at Dope Labs podcast dot com. Special thanks today's guest expert,
Doctor Wendseysuzu. Her book Good Anxiety, Harnessing the Power of
the Most misunderstoody Motion is out now from Atria Books.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
You can find more about Doctor Suzuki at Wendy Suzuki
dot com.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from Mega Owned
Media Group.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Our producers are Jenny Ratleitmast and Lydia Smith of WaveRunner Studios.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Editing and sound designed by Rob Smerciak.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Mixing by Hannes Brown.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex
Sugier from Spotify.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Our executive producer is Gina Delvack, and creative producers are
Baron Farmer and Candace Manriquez Wrinn.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Special thanks to Shirley Ramos Yasmin of Fifi, Camu Elolia,
Till krat Key and Brian Marquis. Executive producers from Mega
Ownmedia Group are us T t Show Dia and Zakiah Wattley.
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