March 9, 2025 • 37 mins
Titi and Zakiya are back in the lab talking all about relationships with Yung Pueblo, author of How to Love Better. If you’re tired of the internet convos about who should text first, balloon popping, or when to go no contact with the love of your life, this is the episode for you. Put your lab coat on!
Stay up to date with us on Instagram at @DopeLabsPodcast and at DopeLabsPodcast.com
Joining Lemonada Premium is a great way to support our show. Subscribe today at bit.ly/lemonadapremium.
Click this link for a list of current sponsors and discount codes for this show and all Lemonada shows: lemonadamedia.com/sponsors
To follow along with a transcript, go to lemonadamedia.com/show/ shortly after the air date.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, y'all, we're back.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Did you miss us, because we missed you. It feels
so good to be back with our friends. Tt I know, right,
the show really didn't stop for us. We kept talking,
but our mics were off.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Now, some people would say that's a good thing, mainly
my mom, but.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Most of y'all have been in our dms and commenting
on our Instagram posts, asking when the show is coming back,
where we are, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, it really has been too long, So first let's
catch you up with what's been going on with us.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We've been traveling a lot, a lot, a lot, Cris
crossing this globe, Australia, South Africa, Scotland, Switzerland.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
You've been going everywhere.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I've been in Atlanta, I've been in the Atlanta Metro
and if you've been on two eighty five, you know
it feels like Chris crossing the globe. But we've also
been working a lot, right, Yes, we have so many
things that we're still working on right.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
A planetarium film that's gonna come out in the fall.
We can't wait to tell y'all about that.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Oh my gosh, y'all are gonna love it. I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I've been doing more filmmaking, so that's been a lot
of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
If you don't follow Zakia on Instagram, you have to.
Her cinematography skills are a one. The storytelling is just
chef's kiss.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. And not
to bury the lead, but Titi had a baby oo cherl.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yes, I had a baby, y'all, tyson, a little boy.
He's wonderful. But that was crazy. Can you believe they
let me leave the hospital with a baby?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Man? That is still shaking me to the core. That's crazy.
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm still healing from that, and we're.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Still healing collectively from missing y'all. Like that's been a
real big thing for us.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yes, and it feels like we're the drama. I mean
I think we're the drama because it feels like, is
it ghosting force?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Ghosting force ghosting me? So kind of Yes and no,
But our heart was in the right place. We just
had to get our stuff together. We had to, you know,
come back with a new step to how did that
song go? We shouldn't have left you without a alia,
but we were thinking about everybody the whole way along,
you know.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, and with y'all in our minds while we were away.
You know, this is all set and making us sound
like f boys now like like future, very toxic behavior.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Okay, now listen, I never am one to align myself
with future, but I do think the upside of this
is like that part where they say, you know, absence
makes the heart grow fonder. But is that true? And
who is they? I hate when somebody say they say,
you know, they say, I don't know who they is,
but I'm hoping it's true in this case. Okay, yes,
I hope so too. I don't want our relationships to
be damaged.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Exactly, and relationships can be so complicated and time is
a thief.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Funny, there are some people whose absence actually made them
dead to me, so yes, rip rih rest in hades.
And I know we sound terrible, but we're not the
only ones who are trying to figure out all this
relationship stuff. Okay, we're gonna talk about that today. I'm
(03:17):
TT and I'm Zachiah, and this is Dope Labs. Welcome
to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science
with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. Let's
jump into the recitation.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Okay, so what do we know about relationships? Well, we
know that relationships can be complicated, and we know that
being with someone takes work. We also know that every
relationship is different, so.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
What works for some won't work for all. But there
are some foundational things that probably most healthy relationships have,
you know, or they're built on, like honesty and Okay,
so what do we want to know? M like, on
the most basic, basic level, what is love? Because I
feel like the term love is being so overused and
(04:10):
we have certainly lost the plot.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yes, reality TV has really messed with our minds, like
everybody's in love on these TV shows where they're with
the people, they fill a house with twenty people, and
that everybody's falling in love on day two. I don't
feel like that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
No, And if you find yourself running across the beach
to separate the love of your life from whatever they
got going on under those sheets, that's not love, baby,
It's not love.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It can't be. If it is, I don't want it.
So what I want to know, Like, I want to
go through the life cycle of a relationship and find
out what is happening to our minds and bodies as
we are going through these relationships.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yes, because love is not just in the heart. Okay,
the brain is doing things. The body is doing things.
And speaking of the brain doing things, some folks are
refusing to date someone who hasn't been to therapy. Is
that a cheat code or a no? No?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
That's a very good question. I want to know what
are some of the breadcrumbs that let you know this
is no good or you're on the right track.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Mm, that's I like that. Guide me to the right way,
don't don't make me go all the way to the end.
If there's something I can see a longess, mays, I
like to take a clue. Similarly, what makes a relationship last?
And how do our feelings grow and change with time?
And how is that tied to, like chemically, what's happening
in our brains? Or is there something we need to
(05:35):
be doing?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And sometimes it's how do you make a relationship last?
But it might also be when do you walk away?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I think we have lots of questions, so let's jump
into the dissection.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Our guest today is poet and relationship expert Young Pueblo.
If you haven't seen him on social media, you actually
have your friends follow him, and if you don't follow him,
you have absolutely come across his work. Young Pueblo's book
is out and it's called How to Love Better, and
we got an advanced copy, and let me tell y'all,
(06:10):
it is good, very very good.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Young Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Thank you both so much. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Our first question is a very baseline question, just to
get everybody, you know, in the right mind frame. There
have been neuroscientists that say that love is a biological
necessity and we need it for our well being, like
we need water, and like we need food and exercise.
But we want to know what is your definition of love?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Oh that's interesting. I love hearing that connotation because immediately
it made me think about love coming from community, coming
from friendship, or coming from partnership. Because it is essential,
but it comes in a lot of different forms. I
think to me, love is something that you not only
feel profoundly internally, but it motivates you and like activates
(07:06):
your wanting to learn how to care for a person.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
And I think it's quite the contrast to a lot
of the love that we're seeing everywhere for consumption, you know,
fact one of the things that we're often talking about.
It's just how much we see love in just like
reality TV or notions of love, and how that might
be coloring our perception. So we know that more than
like three million people are tuned into every episode of
(07:31):
The Bachelor, it's like most recent season. Why when we
look at those couples that come from these shows, not
very many are going the distance. You know, even the
Golden Bachelor at his big age struggled. Okay, we'll say struggled.
And so I'm curious, do you think we've sensationalized love
as a society. Do you think these shows are useful
(07:54):
when we start thinking about how we think about love.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, I mean the shows are useful in that they're
fun to watch, but they're not like what we should
be striving for or learning from necessarily. I think. You know,
for a lot of us, especially those of us that
grew up watching TV in the seventies, eighties, nineties, and
early two thousands, we were fed a very specific idea
(08:18):
of relationships that really affected our conditioning. You know, this
idea of like you meet someone, you feel very strongly
for them, you have one struggle, and you overcome that
struggle and then you're together happily ever after, And that
is just completely untrue. When you're in a relationship, you're
basically doubling down on your own personal growth and understanding
(08:39):
that just the way that you have ups and downs
as an individual, you're going to have ups and downs
in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
We live in a time where everything can happen in
an instant. You need groceries, it'll be at your door
in thirty minutes, food ten seconds to drive to the
next window, need a ride, a lift will be at
your door in two minutes.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And all this convenience is really messing with our brains
in that same instant gratification at all times, and that
just isn't realistic when you're dealing with your partner. And
that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
If you have a disagreement, it may not be resolved instantly.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
All these things are geared towards speed, and you know
these quick dopamine hits, but like in reality, what is
life like? It takes time to build something beautiful and
that's hard.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I love that you talk about dopamine because we did
a lot of research on the neuroscience about what happens
when we're first.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Following in Love Andruck.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
All of that, and it's because our brain's reward system,
which is located in the middle of our brains, is activated,
and this even shows up in fMRIs. So they did
a study where they showed folks pictures of people that
they love, their romantic partners, and two key areas of
the brain lit up like a Christmas tree. And those
areas of the brain release hormones like oxytocin and adrenaline,
(09:57):
and that gives you your euphoric feeling. And then you
also talked about dopamine, which is also released and it's
another feel good hormone. You talk about your relationship with
your wife as an example in the book. Throughout the book,
Can you talk us through what it felt like for
you and at the very beginning and how it changed
(10:20):
when things got tough.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I think in the very very beginning it almost felt
ethereal in like the magnetic pull that we felt towards
each other, and it felt so enlivening that I was
finally speaking to someone where I didn't necessarily have to
put my guard up and was just like, wasn't performing,
(10:43):
was just you know, able to be myself. But then
that opened up. Honestly, what felt like six years of
being together on and off that felt like a hurricane
because we just did not know how to care for each.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Other, something that we've both talked about in a previous
episode where we talk about platonic reallyfelationships, but also when
romantic relationships, when you have that high, as soon as
anything happens, you have a bad feeling. I'm curious, how
have you and your wife settled into your version of
compassionate love and do you think there are things we
should all be aware of, like in this stage to
(11:16):
keep your relationship healthy and compassionate.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, it's interesting I think what we've sort of settled
into because in the beginning it was sort of the
chaos of not knowing how to care for each other
combined with the craving for perfection wanted the relationship to
be exciting and fun all of the time. And now
what we have it's just this deep understanding that that
(11:40):
there are going to be ups and downs and that
we don't need to fight those ups and downs, and
if anything, what we need to do is we need
to just properly inform each other about how we feel
so that the other person knows that it's time to
step up and support you if you're feeling down or whatnot.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
With all of those good hormones that we get, we
also get some of the not so great hormones that
raise our anxiety and stress, like cortisol, and when those
go up, we have higher stress levels, just like you
were talking about in anxiety, and you describ being able
to just talk to your partner about that anxiety is
such a great step in the compassion that you feel
(12:35):
for one another. You talk about that a lot in
your book, and there was a really amazing quote that
we both loved, and you said, a relationship is not
an escape. It is a deep form of arrival, one
where if you want to succeed, you'll have to face
yourself with great honesty and give your partner a high
level of presence so you can keep feeding the connection
(12:56):
the two of you have. Can you talk more about
that presence and what that means and how people can
show up for one another.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, it's really interesting. I've been really thinking lately about
the connection between the presence that you're able to give
another person and how that's really coming from the presence
that you're able to give yourself as you're moving through
your wide spectrum of emotions. So very often, like if
we're feeling good, we enjoy feeling good. But if we're
(13:27):
not feeling good, we run and we either run into
our phone, run into another TV show, you know, just
doing something to distract ourselves from feeling whatever's happening inside.
I used to be so afraid of my own anxiety,
so afraid of my own sadness that you know, I
was just like I was on a mission to run
away from whenever I would feel those things. But now
(13:47):
as I've been able to sort of just you know,
have that resilience, that strength to just feel those emotions.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I think it's really interesting taking your work and kind
of using it to I don't know how you feel
about this, but I almost want to say using it
as a shield against some of the things that we
are consuming all the time. You know. I feel like
I don't know if this is what I was clicking
on or how my algorithm changed, but I feel like
I was getting a lot of things in the algorithm
(14:16):
that say, like, if your partner does this, they're a narcissist.
If your partner doesn't do these things, you know, it
was a lot of outward facing about the other person.
We talk a lot about self awareness and self work,
and I think so often we have this mindset of,
like you said, convenience and shopping for the perfect partner
and what quality should they have and they need to
(14:37):
bring this to the table and I'm popping the balloon
if they're not six feet and just all of these
things right, And I would love for you to talk
a little bit more about how self work feeds into
a healthy relationship.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Oh, it's everything. I think. You know, when people look
at like, you know, what's a real good green flag?
And I think probably the biggest, most important one as
they have the humility to keep growing as an individual.
Because when you show up to a relationship like, no
one shows up perfect. Everyone has past pain, like something
they went through, whether they experienced trauma or not, something
(15:13):
heavy happened, There was some sort of loss, some sort
of hurt, and that impacts your present moment Like that
is not only impacting your perception, but it's also impacting
how you react to the moment. So understanding that you're
both going to have things that you work through together
and as individuals, I think that just increases the possibility
for success in a relationship. Life is hard, and if
(15:36):
you choose not to grow, life is even harder.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Remember when we talked about attachment styles on the episode
with doctor Franco.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yes, that's when I realized, I'm so like Sious.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I know you from the DMV. Just like guy.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
He would be so proud, hometown hero.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
As you say in your book, attachment is the enemy
of love.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, the type of attachment that I'm talking about is
the old school attachment is like what the Buddha referred
to as one of the causes of misery, and we're
talking about like, when I think of attachment, it's attachment
towards things existing in a very particular way, like the
craving for things to exist in a very particular way
(16:21):
that makes human beings very rigid. And if you have
those attachments in your mind, they will manifest through your
actions as control where you want these people in your
life to exist and think and act in very certain ways,
and you never want the good things to go away,
and you're just basically clinging to the things that you
(16:43):
like and very intensely pushing away the things that you
don't like. And I think living like that makes life
really hard because we're living in this giant river that's
moving forward, and if you fight that, life is going
to hurt. Life is going to suck, Like it's going
to be really, really tough. So instead of fighting the change,
(17:06):
our only option is to embrace change and work with it.
What I can control. I do my best to have
presents in the good moments, Like, for example, I just
got to spend a beautiful time celebrating my father's birthday yesterday,
and I was so grateful. I'm like, Okay, I'm so
happy to be there, But I also know that, like
he's not going to be around for the rest of
my life forever, you know, Like so that makes it's
(17:28):
simultaneously sad, but it also is inspiring me to have
more presence when I'm with him, and to hug him
more and to tell him that I love him, because like,
change is going to happen at some point and you know,
one of us won't be around and I can't necessarily
fight that, but that does help me better show up
in the moment.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
But talking about how things come to an end, you know,
with romantic relationships breaking up, as we know is a
very hard thing, and it can really we feel like
a freight train is coming towards you, and you can
feel a lot of anxiety around that. Folks describe breakups
(18:09):
with having headaches and feeling a crushing sensation and a pain,
like an actual physical pain that can last a little
bit or a long time. How do we know when
it's time to break up?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, I think I love that you're pointing out too,
tt like how big breakups are, and like, I think
we don't often realize how much they shape our minds.
Like those big, big breakups, they really affect our mental conditioning,
and they affect how we see the present, like we'll
look at it through the lens of the past. I
(18:44):
think in terms of like signs of when it's time
to break up, I think probably the clearest one is relationships.
It's natural for them to go through ups and downs.
But let's say you're in a relationship and you're just
going from one down moment to another down moment to
another down moment, and there's very little joy, there's constant struggle,
(19:06):
there's you know, sort of like endless arguments, and you're
not even really having fun anymore. You're just kind of
irritable and it's in the back of your mind and
you just don't want to be honest with it. Yet.
What I like to write about too, is like, when
you know, don't let it drag on. I've seen this
happen with people often, where you know they know they
want to break up with somebody, but it still takes
(19:27):
them like six months to get it done. And that's
hard because you're misusing that person's time and you're misusing
your own time. So I think being aware, like if
you're constantly moving from down moment to down moment, then
there's something for you to assess, like are you really
right for each other.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I do have a question from a friend because I
told her, I said, hey, we're interviewing young Poiblo, and
I had already given her clarity and connection and so
she said, cool, Why wouldn't you have told me this
earlier on? I said, because you would have given me
twenty questions and so that's not a possibility. You know.
One of the things that we've wanted from you is
some tips on getting over a breakup. And so I
(20:05):
have a friend that's going through a really big breakup,
but divorce and She told me that she really wanted
to know how you still believe in love and if
it gets harder or easier the older you get and
the more you have these experiences.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, it's hard to especially, I mean so much love
to your friend too, because that's that's a big one
when people go through the divorces, and that can like
really shake the framework of your mind and how you
see the world. And I see this a lot, you know,
like when I post things about relationships and people commented, well,
there's no there's no good men out there. Well, yeah,
(20:41):
I mean some. I'm sure some of the ones that
you came across were not good, but like, there definitely are,
Like I know a bunch of great guys who are
in good relationships and are healthy relationships.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And drop their names in the chat.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, here are their numbers. Yeah, this is where they live.
I think love is definitely possible. I think, especially when
you're like coming out of a divorce, this is one
of those moments where it's a big realization moment that
you should not be postponing your happiness, Like your greatest
happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a
(21:15):
relationship your partner. They should add to your happiness, but
your happiness is really coming from within.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You preach a quarter though, that is a word.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And I think it's it's challenging because like people want
to lose hope for love, but I think it's definitely possible.
But I don't think that you should be waiting for
love to be happy. I feel like that's a big mistake.
It's especially if you're just coming out a divorce, Like,
this is the time for you to design your life.
(21:47):
This is the time for you to like make the
most beautiful chapter of your life happen. This is your renaissance.
This is like your rebirth moments. So use it, make
best use of it, because then that inner glow, like
as you cultivated and as you keep seeing, like what
is it like, how can I be a better friend
to myself? What do I need to give to myself
so that I can really shine? Other people are gonna
(22:09):
feel that, and then the right person may come along
who also has that similar quality that they take good
care of themselves, and then you can make something beautiful together.
But no matter what phase of life you're in, you
should never be postponing your happiness. You should try to
cultivate that happiness now and then maybe somebody great will
come along.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
At the end of your book, you run through some
red flags and some green flags, and so we wanted
to just throw some scenarios at you and hear whether
or not you feel like it's a red flag or
a green flag, or you can give it a yellow
flag if you feel like it's not either or kid
you want to kick it off.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Okay, I think and this is something I've seen happen
for real. I don't know if you remember, like the
conversation where people say, oh, when you go into somebody's house,
like what are you looking for on their bookshelf or
something like that. Now, sometimes you see great things. You
can see all about love. You might see clarity and connection.
You might see all your favorites. Okay, but when you
(23:23):
open it up, there's nothing highlighted, there's no notes, it's fresh,
it's crisp. When they are aesthetics only did they read
it or are they doing it for the GRAM? We
don't know. Red flag, green flag, yellow flag.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
You know it's so funny because you two are vicious readers,
like you're both PhDs, and you know I know that
you know how to crush bugs. I think the other
thing too, is like you want to like check to
see where I have a stack of books that are
my favorites that I've read and other ones that are
waiting that are like on deck. So there's that clarity
(24:00):
you want to kind of develop. So to me, it's
like a yellow flag if everything is just like kind
of like designed and picture perfect and you don't really
like are they there to help cultivate your mind? But
I think I would ask, like I always lean towards asking,
like tell me more like which ones which which one
of these books has really shaped your mind?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
And why pop quiz baby?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
We're going to have a book club right now. Something
that I've seen on social media where people have done
all these think pieces. It on TikTok and Instagram, and
some folks say, if I am going on a date
with somebody, I'm going to ask them if they have
ever gone to therapy and if they say no, that's
(24:43):
a deal breaker for me. Is someone never having gone
to therapy or not having a desire to go to
therapy at all a red flag?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
A yellow flag? Green flag?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I would say, like almost like yellow green, you know,
it's like It's not necessarily a red flag like that,
because even you can go to therapy and what if
you get one of those therapists is just like, oh,
you're fine, you know, it's the other person's fault and listen, Like,
not all therapists are going to be great. There's definitely
(25:15):
some great ones. I've seen therapists change people's lives for
the better in my circle. So I'm very supportive of therapy,
but you got to make sure you work with someone
who's not just a yes person. And the other end
of that is some of the dopest people that are
so self aware that I know are like painters and
artists and like people who are always in nature and
(25:37):
like that's just the way that they reflect and they
heal themselves. So if they have some sort of practice that,
you know, whether it's like meditating or art or where
they're just like not scared to reflect on themselves, then
to me, that's a big green flag.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
These are fun, okay, And this is also I have
my own thoughts about this, so I can't wait to hear. Yeah,
they tell their friends all about y'all's relationship. What color
flag are you giving that.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
One all about? Is too much. What do you mean,
like everything, everything, everything? Oh, I don't know. Then, No,
I think something's you know, it's funny because after you've
been with somebody for so long, you know, you start
feeling like like there are things that go down in
(26:26):
not just like in our relationship, but like, let's say
something really private that happens to one of our siblings
or something that I know that they want people to
not hear, and I think, out of respect, you kind
of just keep it in the tightest circle. And my
best friends like they're similar to that. We tell each
other a lot, and it might be ninety five percent
(26:48):
like a lot because there's so much trust there. But
I don't think it's everything, you know, So I think
that would be like a very heavy orange. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I can get behind that. Yeah, same.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Okay, So in arguments, when they're arguing with their partner,
they kind of shut down, but it's because they need
to take time to go think and then come back later.
So you know, the partner may want to keep talking
or keep the argument going, but they're like I've had enough.
They remove themselves, but they come back later to finish it.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah. I think that's honestly a green flag that is
not respected enough, and I also didn't. Our argument styles
were different between my wife and I, where I was
like always trying to just like keep it going, let's finish,
let's get over it as fast as possible, and she
needed to move more slowly through it, and honestly she
was right, Like, I think part of the power of
(27:47):
the pause is you're trying to figure out like am
I just being defensive? Am I just trying to win?
Or am I actually trying to help resolve this situation?
And usually the pause kind of makes you snap out
of your own like irate mentality.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I love that the power of the pause and not
the pause.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Okay, here's the next one we have. I feel like
people sometimes you see people that are in a relationship
and it feels like one person is putting the other
person on a pedestal and they're saying like, Oh, I
just don't deserve him, or oh she's so great, I
don't deserve her. People that feel like they don't deserve
the other person. Now, sometimes that's just you know, fluff,
But people that really feel like they don't deserve the
(28:30):
other person. What kind of flag we have going on there?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I think that's strange too. Honestly, I'm with you too,
Like I feel like one thing that I love love
about my really close friends and my wife is that
they're not that impressed by me. They're not like they're
like whatever. He says some smart stuff, and he says
some dumb stuff too, and I think that's just like
(28:54):
the best thing is like having a circle that just
keeps it real with you and they honor you when
it's time to honor you, Like, I think there's some
some lack of I don't know worth in there, and
as opposed to having that framework, I think it's better
to be like, I'm just so grateful to be with
this person. This person is dope. You know, they're amazing,
and but you're both equally amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
There was a man who was like basically told me
I had my life two together for.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Us to pursue anything.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And I was like, like me, I was a mess.
I was in graduate school. I was like, I'm a mess.
He's like, oh, you're so smart, and you know you
have I don't think that this would work. And I
was like, first of all, you're jumping the gun because
I wasn't going to be your girlfriend. Just having a
good time. So yeah, I totally, I totally understand what
(29:43):
you're saying. There's something that gen Z says a lot,
but I want to know your thoughts. They say that
if someone double texts you, like sends two text messages
back to back, that that's a red flag. Like that's
they're like, oh, that person is I don't even know
the right word that they use. From our generation, they
would say that person is thirsty or you know, they're
(30:04):
doing too much.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I think I'm really careful with those like those. That's
a big, big, like blanket statement that just doesn't work
in all contexts. I think some people just like, I
don't know, I'm I'm usually if when I text you,
I'll send like three or four blue lines, like you know,
it's not just like one text. It's like I'll just
send out whatever I'm thinking, and I just I don't know.
(30:31):
I feel like one thing that I really don't like
about current dating culture is that everyone is being COI right,
everyone is kind of like hiding their cars and they're
just like, I don't want to you know, I don't
want to tell you that I like you because I'm afraid.
But it's like you know it's time for clarity. It's
time for clarity. Just like if I'm really feeling you,
(30:52):
I need to tell you that I'm feeling you so
that we can see if something can happen.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
My friend always says, play it cool. Have you left
out in the cold? Oh? Right, I need you to
be thirsty, honey, I need you to get parched for me. Okay,
I don't need you playing coy. I want you to
be triple tech.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Right. And TT and I have spent a lot of
time together over the years, Okay, and I feel like
at the end of the night, TT will say like, oh,
this person definitely liked you, and I'm like, baby, they
didn't say a word. They didn't. I'm not reading your
hand signal, the degree you turned your shoulders to the side.
I'm not reading any of that stuff. And in text messages,
(31:29):
I'm not trying to read between you sent one line.
First of all, I don't even like big blocks of text,
So I'm sending you four to five messages.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Damn, We're sending voice notes, we're sending video over sending memes,
we're sending links, so I.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Can't identify the voice notes. Have added a whole nother element.
Like I feel like I'm listening to my friends like
mini podcasts. I have to like find a moment to
listen to like a four minute voice voice.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
No, okay, So I think this is our last one.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
And it is that.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
A person hasn't ever been in a long term relationship,
like more than three months.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I don't know, I would say that's like green to yellow,
Like I don't think that's that wild per se. I
feel like a lot of that is cultural. People are
just so like anti commitment, and I think a lot
of it is because people are looking for marginal improvements.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
It's like you're with someone and then you want the
relationship to be like two percent better, so you let
go something great. You literally will let go something great
for the chance that's something better, and it just doesn't
always work out. So people are constantly, like you know,
in these I don't know, like six week situationships, they're
dating someone for a little bit and then they don't
even have enough time to really build a full relationship.
(32:52):
So I don't know if that's necessarily the individual's problem.
And a lot of people just like I don't know,
they don't they don't want the nonsense. They like, want
someone who's serious and they want commitments, so they're they're
fine with holding out because they're really fulfilled in and
of themselves. And it's just like if someone's dope and
they really want to commit, they're ready for that. But
(33:14):
other than that, they don't want to play games.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
That's a complete different perspective. I think when people look
and they're like, oh, that means they're afraid of commitment. No,
maybe they aren't afraid of commitment and they just know
that they don't want to be committed to that person.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I definitely wouldn't write someone off for that.
If anything, I would be intrigued. I would be like,
what's going on here? How are you that strong? Like, what's.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Before you leave the lab? We need your benediction, your
parting shot. You know, is there a message you think
we all need to hear?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah. I really feel like a foundational piece of the
art of arguing. Like when you're having an argument with
your partner one, you're not trying to win, You're trying
to understand. And that is big because we get so
quickly defensive in an argument and both people are trying
to dominate the narrative, both people are trying to sort
(34:09):
of dominate like who's right and who's wrong. Granted, there
will probably be times where someone definitely needs to apologize,
but usually there's a backstory something happened, and if you
really care for your partner, and you remind yourself like,
this is not my enemy, this is like the person
that I love, my roommate, and let's take turns listening
(34:32):
to each other selflessly. It's just like this Buddhist monk
tiknat Hans said, love is understanding, and that quote is
so true. So it's not about winning in arguments. You
just you know, you're trying to understand how things happen,
and when you really understand each other, the tension just
fizzles out and you're like, oh, I see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yes, I really loved this episode as our first episode
back because relationships platonic or romantic can be complicated, and
I feel like we have a lot of tools now
that we need to continue our healthy relationship with our friends.
(35:20):
We talked about the power of the pause, right Zie,
and our pause was a little long, and I think
that us coming back to the relationship, we're even stronger
now you know. I don't know if absence made the
heart grow fonder with y'all, but it definitely did for us.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
If it made it grow fonder, drop us a heart.
We want to see it, We want to feel the love.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yes, show us you love us, we made you. We're sorry. Okay, Yes,
we're standing outside your windows with a boombox.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
You can find Young Pueblo on Instagram at y u
n G Underscore Pueblo.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope
Lab Podcast.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Tt Is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore t s.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
H O, and you can find Zakiya at Z said So.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate
producer is Issara Savez.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed by James
farber Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is
Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvill.
Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original music composed and produced
by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, with additional music
(36:50):
by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive produced by us
T T Show, Dia and Zakiah Wattley.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Two
Hey, y'all, we're back.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Did you miss us, because we missed you. It feels
so good to be back with our friends. Tt I know, right,
the show really didn't stop for us. We kept talking,
but our mics were off.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Now, some people would say that's a good thing, mainly
my mom, but.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Most of y'all have been in our dms and commenting
on our Instagram posts, asking when the show is coming back,
where we are, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, it really has been too long, So first let's
catch you up with what's been going on with us.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We've been traveling a lot, a lot, a lot, Cris
crossing this globe, Australia, South Africa, Scotland, Switzerland.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
You've been going everywhere.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I've been in Atlanta, I've been in the Atlanta Metro
and if you've been on two eighty five, you know
it feels like Chris crossing the globe. But we've also
been working a lot, right, Yes, we have so many
things that we're still working on right.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
A planetarium film that's gonna come out in the fall.
We can't wait to tell y'all about that.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Oh my gosh, y'all are gonna love it. I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I've been doing more filmmaking, so that's been a lot
of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
If you don't follow Zakia on Instagram, you have to.
Her cinematography skills are a one. The storytelling is just
chef's kiss.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. And not
to bury the lead, but Titi had a baby oo cherl.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yes, I had a baby, y'all, tyson, a little boy.
He's wonderful. But that was crazy. Can you believe they
let me leave the hospital with a baby?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Man? That is still shaking me to the core. That's crazy.
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm still healing from that, and we're.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Still healing collectively from missing y'all. Like that's been a
real big thing for us.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yes, and it feels like we're the drama. I mean
I think we're the drama because it feels like, is
it ghosting force?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Ghosting force ghosting me? So kind of Yes and no,
But our heart was in the right place. We just
had to get our stuff together. We had to, you know,
come back with a new step to how did that
song go? We shouldn't have left you without a alia,
but we were thinking about everybody the whole way along,
you know.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, and with y'all in our minds while we were away.
You know, this is all set and making us sound
like f boys now like like future, very toxic behavior.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Okay, now listen, I never am one to align myself
with future, but I do think the upside of this
is like that part where they say, you know, absence
makes the heart grow fonder. But is that true? And
who is they? I hate when somebody say they say,
you know, they say, I don't know who they is,
but I'm hoping it's true in this case. Okay, yes,
I hope so too. I don't want our relationships to
be damaged.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Exactly, and relationships can be so complicated and time is
a thief.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Funny, there are some people whose absence actually made them
dead to me, so yes, rip rih rest in hades.
And I know we sound terrible, but we're not the
only ones who are trying to figure out all this
relationship stuff. Okay, we're gonna talk about that today. I'm
(03:17):
TT and I'm Zachiah, and this is Dope Labs. Welcome
to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science
with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. Let's
jump into the recitation.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Okay, so what do we know about relationships? Well, we
know that relationships can be complicated, and we know that
being with someone takes work. We also know that every
relationship is different, so.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
What works for some won't work for all. But there
are some foundational things that probably most healthy relationships have,
you know, or they're built on, like honesty and Okay,
so what do we want to know? M like, on
the most basic, basic level, what is love? Because I
feel like the term love is being so overused and
(04:10):
we have certainly lost the plot.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yes, reality TV has really messed with our minds, like
everybody's in love on these TV shows where they're with
the people, they fill a house with twenty people, and
that everybody's falling in love on day two. I don't
feel like that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
No, And if you find yourself running across the beach
to separate the love of your life from whatever they
got going on under those sheets, that's not love, baby,
It's not love.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It can't be. If it is, I don't want it.
So what I want to know, Like, I want to
go through the life cycle of a relationship and find
out what is happening to our minds and bodies as
we are going through these relationships.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yes, because love is not just in the heart. Okay,
the brain is doing things. The body is doing things.
And speaking of the brain doing things, some folks are
refusing to date someone who hasn't been to therapy. Is
that a cheat code or a no? No?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
That's a very good question. I want to know what
are some of the breadcrumbs that let you know this
is no good or you're on the right track.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Mm, that's I like that. Guide me to the right way,
don't don't make me go all the way to the end.
If there's something I can see a longess, mays, I
like to take a clue. Similarly, what makes a relationship last?
And how do our feelings grow and change with time?
And how is that tied to, like chemically, what's happening
in our brains? Or is there something we need to
(05:35):
be doing?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And sometimes it's how do you make a relationship last?
But it might also be when do you walk away?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I think we have lots of questions, so let's jump
into the dissection.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Our guest today is poet and relationship expert Young Pueblo.
If you haven't seen him on social media, you actually
have your friends follow him, and if you don't follow him,
you have absolutely come across his work. Young Pueblo's book
is out and it's called How to Love Better, and
we got an advanced copy, and let me tell y'all,
(06:10):
it is good, very very good.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Young Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Thank you both so much. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Our first question is a very baseline question, just to
get everybody, you know, in the right mind frame. There
have been neuroscientists that say that love is a biological
necessity and we need it for our well being, like
we need water, and like we need food and exercise.
But we want to know what is your definition of love?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Oh that's interesting. I love hearing that connotation because immediately
it made me think about love coming from community, coming
from friendship, or coming from partnership. Because it is essential,
but it comes in a lot of different forms. I
think to me, love is something that you not only
feel profoundly internally, but it motivates you and like activates
(07:06):
your wanting to learn how to care for a person.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
And I think it's quite the contrast to a lot
of the love that we're seeing everywhere for consumption, you know,
fact one of the things that we're often talking about.
It's just how much we see love in just like
reality TV or notions of love, and how that might
be coloring our perception. So we know that more than
like three million people are tuned into every episode of
(07:31):
The Bachelor, it's like most recent season. Why when we
look at those couples that come from these shows, not
very many are going the distance. You know, even the
Golden Bachelor at his big age struggled. Okay, we'll say struggled.
And so I'm curious, do you think we've sensationalized love
as a society. Do you think these shows are useful
(07:54):
when we start thinking about how we think about love.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, I mean the shows are useful in that they're
fun to watch, but they're not like what we should
be striving for or learning from necessarily. I think. You know,
for a lot of us, especially those of us that
grew up watching TV in the seventies, eighties, nineties, and
early two thousands, we were fed a very specific idea
(08:18):
of relationships that really affected our conditioning. You know, this
idea of like you meet someone, you feel very strongly
for them, you have one struggle, and you overcome that
struggle and then you're together happily ever after, And that
is just completely untrue. When you're in a relationship, you're
basically doubling down on your own personal growth and understanding
(08:39):
that just the way that you have ups and downs
as an individual, you're going to have ups and downs
in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
We live in a time where everything can happen in
an instant. You need groceries, it'll be at your door
in thirty minutes, food ten seconds to drive to the
next window, need a ride, a lift will be at
your door in two minutes.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And all this convenience is really messing with our brains
in that same instant gratification at all times, and that
just isn't realistic when you're dealing with your partner. And
that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
If you have a disagreement, it may not be resolved instantly.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
All these things are geared towards speed, and you know
these quick dopamine hits, but like in reality, what is
life like? It takes time to build something beautiful and
that's hard.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I love that you talk about dopamine because we did
a lot of research on the neuroscience about what happens
when we're first.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Following in Love Andruck.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
All of that, and it's because our brain's reward system,
which is located in the middle of our brains, is activated,
and this even shows up in fMRIs. So they did
a study where they showed folks pictures of people that
they love, their romantic partners, and two key areas of
the brain lit up like a Christmas tree. And those
areas of the brain release hormones like oxytocin and adrenaline,
(09:57):
and that gives you your euphoric feeling. And then you
also talked about dopamine, which is also released and it's
another feel good hormone. You talk about your relationship with
your wife as an example in the book. Throughout the book,
Can you talk us through what it felt like for
you and at the very beginning and how it changed
(10:20):
when things got tough.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I think in the very very beginning it almost felt
ethereal in like the magnetic pull that we felt towards
each other, and it felt so enlivening that I was
finally speaking to someone where I didn't necessarily have to
put my guard up and was just like, wasn't performing,
(10:43):
was just you know, able to be myself. But then
that opened up. Honestly, what felt like six years of
being together on and off that felt like a hurricane
because we just did not know how to care for each.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Other, something that we've both talked about in a previous
episode where we talk about platonic reallyfelationships, but also when
romantic relationships, when you have that high, as soon as
anything happens, you have a bad feeling. I'm curious, how
have you and your wife settled into your version of
compassionate love and do you think there are things we
should all be aware of, like in this stage to
(11:16):
keep your relationship healthy and compassionate.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, it's interesting I think what we've sort of settled
into because in the beginning it was sort of the
chaos of not knowing how to care for each other
combined with the craving for perfection wanted the relationship to
be exciting and fun all of the time. And now
what we have it's just this deep understanding that that
(11:40):
there are going to be ups and downs and that
we don't need to fight those ups and downs, and
if anything, what we need to do is we need
to just properly inform each other about how we feel
so that the other person knows that it's time to
step up and support you if you're feeling down or whatnot.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
With all of those good hormones that we get, we
also get some of the not so great hormones that
raise our anxiety and stress, like cortisol, and when those
go up, we have higher stress levels, just like you
were talking about in anxiety, and you describ being able
to just talk to your partner about that anxiety is
such a great step in the compassion that you feel
(12:35):
for one another. You talk about that a lot in
your book, and there was a really amazing quote that
we both loved, and you said, a relationship is not
an escape. It is a deep form of arrival, one
where if you want to succeed, you'll have to face
yourself with great honesty and give your partner a high
level of presence so you can keep feeding the connection
(12:56):
the two of you have. Can you talk more about
that presence and what that means and how people can
show up for one another.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, it's really interesting. I've been really thinking lately about
the connection between the presence that you're able to give
another person and how that's really coming from the presence
that you're able to give yourself as you're moving through
your wide spectrum of emotions. So very often, like if
we're feeling good, we enjoy feeling good. But if we're
(13:27):
not feeling good, we run and we either run into
our phone, run into another TV show, you know, just
doing something to distract ourselves from feeling whatever's happening inside.
I used to be so afraid of my own anxiety,
so afraid of my own sadness that you know, I
was just like I was on a mission to run
away from whenever I would feel those things. But now
(13:47):
as I've been able to sort of just you know,
have that resilience, that strength to just feel those emotions.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I think it's really interesting taking your work and kind
of using it to I don't know how you feel
about this, but I almost want to say using it
as a shield against some of the things that we
are consuming all the time. You know. I feel like
I don't know if this is what I was clicking
on or how my algorithm changed, but I feel like
I was getting a lot of things in the algorithm
(14:16):
that say, like, if your partner does this, they're a narcissist.
If your partner doesn't do these things, you know, it
was a lot of outward facing about the other person.
We talk a lot about self awareness and self work,
and I think so often we have this mindset of,
like you said, convenience and shopping for the perfect partner
and what quality should they have and they need to
(14:37):
bring this to the table and I'm popping the balloon
if they're not six feet and just all of these
things right, And I would love for you to talk
a little bit more about how self work feeds into
a healthy relationship.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Oh, it's everything. I think. You know, when people look
at like, you know, what's a real good green flag?
And I think probably the biggest, most important one as
they have the humility to keep growing as an individual.
Because when you show up to a relationship like, no
one shows up perfect. Everyone has past pain, like something
they went through, whether they experienced trauma or not, something
(15:13):
heavy happened, There was some sort of loss, some sort
of hurt, and that impacts your present moment Like that
is not only impacting your perception, but it's also impacting
how you react to the moment. So understanding that you're
both going to have things that you work through together
and as individuals, I think that just increases the possibility
for success in a relationship. Life is hard, and if
(15:36):
you choose not to grow, life is even harder.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Remember when we talked about attachment styles on the episode
with doctor Franco.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yes, that's when I realized, I'm so like Sious.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I know you from the DMV. Just like guy.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
He would be so proud, hometown hero.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
As you say in your book, attachment is the enemy
of love.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, the type of attachment that I'm talking about is
the old school attachment is like what the Buddha referred
to as one of the causes of misery, and we're
talking about like, when I think of attachment, it's attachment
towards things existing in a very particular way, like the
craving for things to exist in a very particular way
(16:21):
that makes human beings very rigid. And if you have
those attachments in your mind, they will manifest through your
actions as control where you want these people in your
life to exist and think and act in very certain ways,
and you never want the good things to go away,
and you're just basically clinging to the things that you
(16:43):
like and very intensely pushing away the things that you
don't like. And I think living like that makes life
really hard because we're living in this giant river that's
moving forward, and if you fight that, life is going
to hurt. Life is going to suck, Like it's going
to be really, really tough. So instead of fighting the change,
(17:06):
our only option is to embrace change and work with it.
What I can control. I do my best to have
presents in the good moments, Like, for example, I just
got to spend a beautiful time celebrating my father's birthday yesterday,
and I was so grateful. I'm like, Okay, I'm so
happy to be there, But I also know that, like
he's not going to be around for the rest of
my life forever, you know, Like so that makes it's
(17:28):
simultaneously sad, but it also is inspiring me to have
more presence when I'm with him, and to hug him
more and to tell him that I love him, because like,
change is going to happen at some point and you know,
one of us won't be around and I can't necessarily
fight that, but that does help me better show up
in the moment.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
But talking about how things come to an end, you know,
with romantic relationships breaking up, as we know is a
very hard thing, and it can really we feel like
a freight train is coming towards you, and you can
feel a lot of anxiety around that. Folks describe breakups
(18:09):
with having headaches and feeling a crushing sensation and a pain,
like an actual physical pain that can last a little
bit or a long time. How do we know when
it's time to break up?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, I think I love that you're pointing out too,
tt like how big breakups are, and like, I think
we don't often realize how much they shape our minds.
Like those big, big breakups, they really affect our mental conditioning,
and they affect how we see the present, like we'll
look at it through the lens of the past. I
(18:44):
think in terms of like signs of when it's time
to break up, I think probably the clearest one is relationships.
It's natural for them to go through ups and downs.
But let's say you're in a relationship and you're just
going from one down moment to another down moment to
another down moment, and there's very little joy, there's constant struggle,
(19:06):
there's you know, sort of like endless arguments, and you're
not even really having fun anymore. You're just kind of
irritable and it's in the back of your mind and
you just don't want to be honest with it. Yet.
What I like to write about too, is like, when
you know, don't let it drag on. I've seen this
happen with people often, where you know they know they
want to break up with somebody, but it still takes
(19:27):
them like six months to get it done. And that's
hard because you're misusing that person's time and you're misusing
your own time. So I think being aware, like if
you're constantly moving from down moment to down moment, then
there's something for you to assess, like are you really
right for each other.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I do have a question from a friend because I
told her, I said, hey, we're interviewing young Poiblo, and
I had already given her clarity and connection and so
she said, cool, Why wouldn't you have told me this
earlier on? I said, because you would have given me
twenty questions and so that's not a possibility. You know.
One of the things that we've wanted from you is
some tips on getting over a breakup. And so I
(20:05):
have a friend that's going through a really big breakup,
but divorce and She told me that she really wanted
to know how you still believe in love and if
it gets harder or easier the older you get and
the more you have these experiences.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, it's hard to especially, I mean so much love
to your friend too, because that's that's a big one
when people go through the divorces, and that can like
really shake the framework of your mind and how you
see the world. And I see this a lot, you know,
like when I post things about relationships and people commented, well,
there's no there's no good men out there. Well, yeah,
(20:41):
I mean some. I'm sure some of the ones that
you came across were not good, but like, there definitely are,
Like I know a bunch of great guys who are
in good relationships and are healthy relationships.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And drop their names in the chat.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, here are their numbers. Yeah, this is where they live.
I think love is definitely possible. I think, especially when
you're like coming out of a divorce, this is one
of those moments where it's a big realization moment that
you should not be postponing your happiness, Like your greatest
happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a
(21:15):
relationship your partner. They should add to your happiness, but
your happiness is really coming from within.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You preach a quarter though, that is a word.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And I think it's it's challenging because like people want
to lose hope for love, but I think it's definitely possible.
But I don't think that you should be waiting for
love to be happy. I feel like that's a big mistake.
It's especially if you're just coming out a divorce, Like,
this is the time for you to design your life.
(21:47):
This is the time for you to like make the
most beautiful chapter of your life happen. This is your renaissance.
This is like your rebirth moments. So use it, make
best use of it, because then that inner glow, like
as you cultivated and as you keep seeing, like what
is it like, how can I be a better friend
to myself? What do I need to give to myself
so that I can really shine? Other people are gonna
(22:09):
feel that, and then the right person may come along
who also has that similar quality that they take good
care of themselves, and then you can make something beautiful together.
But no matter what phase of life you're in, you
should never be postponing your happiness. You should try to
cultivate that happiness now and then maybe somebody great will
come along.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
At the end of your book, you run through some
red flags and some green flags, and so we wanted
to just throw some scenarios at you and hear whether
or not you feel like it's a red flag or
a green flag, or you can give it a yellow
flag if you feel like it's not either or kid
you want to kick it off.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Okay, I think and this is something I've seen happen
for real. I don't know if you remember, like the
conversation where people say, oh, when you go into somebody's house,
like what are you looking for on their bookshelf or
something like that. Now, sometimes you see great things. You
can see all about love. You might see clarity and connection.
You might see all your favorites. Okay, but when you
(23:23):
open it up, there's nothing highlighted, there's no notes, it's fresh,
it's crisp. When they are aesthetics only did they read
it or are they doing it for the GRAM? We
don't know. Red flag, green flag, yellow flag.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
You know it's so funny because you two are vicious readers,
like you're both PhDs, and you know I know that
you know how to crush bugs. I think the other
thing too, is like you want to like check to
see where I have a stack of books that are
my favorites that I've read and other ones that are
waiting that are like on deck. So there's that clarity
(24:00):
you want to kind of develop. So to me, it's
like a yellow flag if everything is just like kind
of like designed and picture perfect and you don't really
like are they there to help cultivate your mind? But
I think I would ask, like I always lean towards asking,
like tell me more like which ones which which one
of these books has really shaped your mind?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
And why pop quiz baby?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
We're going to have a book club right now. Something
that I've seen on social media where people have done
all these think pieces. It on TikTok and Instagram, and
some folks say, if I am going on a date
with somebody, I'm going to ask them if they have
ever gone to therapy and if they say no, that's
(24:43):
a deal breaker for me. Is someone never having gone
to therapy or not having a desire to go to
therapy at all a red flag?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
A yellow flag? Green flag?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I would say, like almost like yellow green, you know,
it's like It's not necessarily a red flag like that,
because even you can go to therapy and what if
you get one of those therapists is just like, oh,
you're fine, you know, it's the other person's fault and listen, Like,
not all therapists are going to be great. There's definitely
(25:15):
some great ones. I've seen therapists change people's lives for
the better in my circle. So I'm very supportive of therapy,
but you got to make sure you work with someone
who's not just a yes person. And the other end
of that is some of the dopest people that are
so self aware that I know are like painters and
artists and like people who are always in nature and
(25:37):
like that's just the way that they reflect and they
heal themselves. So if they have some sort of practice that,
you know, whether it's like meditating or art or where
they're just like not scared to reflect on themselves, then
to me, that's a big green flag.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
These are fun, okay, And this is also I have
my own thoughts about this, so I can't wait to hear. Yeah,
they tell their friends all about y'all's relationship. What color
flag are you giving that.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
One all about? Is too much. What do you mean,
like everything, everything, everything? Oh, I don't know. Then, No,
I think something's you know, it's funny because after you've
been with somebody for so long, you know, you start
feeling like like there are things that go down in
(26:26):
not just like in our relationship, but like, let's say
something really private that happens to one of our siblings
or something that I know that they want people to
not hear, and I think, out of respect, you kind
of just keep it in the tightest circle. And my
best friends like they're similar to that. We tell each
other a lot, and it might be ninety five percent
(26:48):
like a lot because there's so much trust there. But
I don't think it's everything, you know, So I think
that would be like a very heavy orange. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I can get behind that. Yeah, same.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Okay, So in arguments, when they're arguing with their partner,
they kind of shut down, but it's because they need
to take time to go think and then come back later.
So you know, the partner may want to keep talking
or keep the argument going, but they're like I've had enough.
They remove themselves, but they come back later to finish it.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah. I think that's honestly a green flag that is
not respected enough, and I also didn't. Our argument styles
were different between my wife and I, where I was
like always trying to just like keep it going, let's finish,
let's get over it as fast as possible, and she
needed to move more slowly through it, and honestly she
was right, Like, I think part of the power of
(27:47):
the pause is you're trying to figure out like am
I just being defensive? Am I just trying to win?
Or am I actually trying to help resolve this situation?
And usually the pause kind of makes you snap out
of your own like irate mentality.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I love that the power of the pause and not
the pause.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Okay, here's the next one we have. I feel like
people sometimes you see people that are in a relationship
and it feels like one person is putting the other
person on a pedestal and they're saying like, Oh, I
just don't deserve him, or oh she's so great, I
don't deserve her. People that feel like they don't deserve
the other person. Now, sometimes that's just you know, fluff,
But people that really feel like they don't deserve the
(28:30):
other person. What kind of flag we have going on there?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I think that's strange too. Honestly, I'm with you too,
Like I feel like one thing that I love love
about my really close friends and my wife is that
they're not that impressed by me. They're not like they're
like whatever. He says some smart stuff, and he says
some dumb stuff too, and I think that's just like
(28:54):
the best thing is like having a circle that just
keeps it real with you and they honor you when
it's time to honor you, Like, I think there's some
some lack of I don't know worth in there, and
as opposed to having that framework, I think it's better
to be like, I'm just so grateful to be with
this person. This person is dope. You know, they're amazing,
and but you're both equally amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
There was a man who was like basically told me
I had my life two together for.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Us to pursue anything.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And I was like, like me, I was a mess.
I was in graduate school. I was like, I'm a mess.
He's like, oh, you're so smart, and you know you
have I don't think that this would work. And I
was like, first of all, you're jumping the gun because
I wasn't going to be your girlfriend. Just having a
good time. So yeah, I totally, I totally understand what
(29:43):
you're saying. There's something that gen Z says a lot,
but I want to know your thoughts. They say that
if someone double texts you, like sends two text messages
back to back, that that's a red flag. Like that's
they're like, oh, that person is I don't even know
the right word that they use. From our generation, they
would say that person is thirsty or you know, they're
(30:04):
doing too much.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I think I'm really careful with those like those. That's
a big, big, like blanket statement that just doesn't work
in all contexts. I think some people just like, I
don't know, I'm I'm usually if when I text you,
I'll send like three or four blue lines, like you know,
it's not just like one text. It's like I'll just
send out whatever I'm thinking, and I just I don't know.
(30:31):
I feel like one thing that I really don't like
about current dating culture is that everyone is being COI right,
everyone is kind of like hiding their cars and they're
just like, I don't want to you know, I don't
want to tell you that I like you because I'm afraid.
But it's like you know it's time for clarity. It's
time for clarity. Just like if I'm really feeling you,
(30:52):
I need to tell you that I'm feeling you so
that we can see if something can happen.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
My friend always says, play it cool. Have you left
out in the cold? Oh? Right, I need you to
be thirsty, honey, I need you to get parched for me. Okay,
I don't need you playing coy. I want you to
be triple tech.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Right. And TT and I have spent a lot of
time together over the years, Okay, and I feel like
at the end of the night, TT will say like, oh,
this person definitely liked you, and I'm like, baby, they
didn't say a word. They didn't. I'm not reading your
hand signal, the degree you turned your shoulders to the side.
I'm not reading any of that stuff. And in text messages,
(31:29):
I'm not trying to read between you sent one line.
First of all, I don't even like big blocks of text,
So I'm sending you four to five messages.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Damn, We're sending voice notes, we're sending video over sending memes,
we're sending links, so I.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Can't identify the voice notes. Have added a whole nother element.
Like I feel like I'm listening to my friends like
mini podcasts. I have to like find a moment to
listen to like a four minute voice voice.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
No, okay, So I think this is our last one.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
And it is that.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
A person hasn't ever been in a long term relationship,
like more than three months.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I don't know, I would say that's like green to yellow,
Like I don't think that's that wild per se. I
feel like a lot of that is cultural. People are
just so like anti commitment, and I think a lot
of it is because people are looking for marginal improvements.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
It's like you're with someone and then you want the
relationship to be like two percent better, so you let
go something great. You literally will let go something great
for the chance that's something better, and it just doesn't
always work out. So people are constantly, like you know,
in these I don't know, like six week situationships, they're
dating someone for a little bit and then they don't
even have enough time to really build a full relationship.
(32:52):
So I don't know if that's necessarily the individual's problem.
And a lot of people just like I don't know,
they don't they don't want the nonsense. They like, want
someone who's serious and they want commitments, so they're they're
fine with holding out because they're really fulfilled in and
of themselves. And it's just like if someone's dope and
they really want to commit, they're ready for that. But
(33:14):
other than that, they don't want to play games.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
That's a complete different perspective. I think when people look
and they're like, oh, that means they're afraid of commitment. No,
maybe they aren't afraid of commitment and they just know
that they don't want to be committed to that person.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I definitely wouldn't write someone off for that.
If anything, I would be intrigued. I would be like,
what's going on here? How are you that strong? Like, what's.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Before you leave the lab? We need your benediction, your
parting shot. You know, is there a message you think
we all need to hear?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah. I really feel like a foundational piece of the
art of arguing. Like when you're having an argument with
your partner one, you're not trying to win, You're trying
to understand. And that is big because we get so
quickly defensive in an argument and both people are trying
to dominate the narrative, both people are trying to sort
(34:09):
of dominate like who's right and who's wrong. Granted, there
will probably be times where someone definitely needs to apologize,
but usually there's a backstory something happened, and if you
really care for your partner, and you remind yourself like,
this is not my enemy, this is like the person
that I love, my roommate, and let's take turns listening
(34:32):
to each other selflessly. It's just like this Buddhist monk
tiknat Hans said, love is understanding, and that quote is
so true. So it's not about winning in arguments. You
just you know, you're trying to understand how things happen,
and when you really understand each other, the tension just
fizzles out and you're like, oh, I see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yes, I really loved this episode as our first episode
back because relationships platonic or romantic can be complicated, and
I feel like we have a lot of tools now
that we need to continue our healthy relationship with our friends.
(35:20):
We talked about the power of the pause, right Zie,
and our pause was a little long, and I think
that us coming back to the relationship, we're even stronger
now you know. I don't know if absence made the
heart grow fonder with y'all, but it definitely did for us.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
If it made it grow fonder, drop us a heart.
We want to see it, We want to feel the love.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yes, show us you love us, we made you. We're sorry. Okay, Yes,
we're standing outside your windows with a boombox.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
You can find Young Pueblo on Instagram at y u
n G Underscore Pueblo.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope
Lab Podcast.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Tt Is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore t s.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
H O, and you can find Zakiya at Z said So.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate
producer is Issara Savez.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed by James
farber Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is
Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvill.
Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original music composed and produced
by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, with additional music
(36:50):
by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive produced by us
T T Show, Dia and Zakiah Wattley.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Two
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.