October 20, 2022 • 26 mins
The semester is nearly over, can you believe it? Titi and Zakiya revisit some of their favorite labs from semester 4 and hear updates on science denial, Monkeypox, the supply chain, cybersecurity, and more. You can find more Dope Labs, show notes, and cheat sheets at dopelabspodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's hard to believe, but Semester four is coming to
a close.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This was a huge semester for Dope Labs. We went
from bi weekly to weekly episodes and we have covered
so much.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
So for our last two laps of the semester, we
decided that we were going to get back in touch
with a few of our favorite guest experts to hear
updates from their fields. Think of this as like Semester
four's greatest hits, you know, like when Diddy did Diddy
and the Bad Boy Family and all of them came
together and made that Dope album.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah like that.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Welcome to Dope, a weekly podcast that makes this hardcore
science pop culture and a healthy does of friendship.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Okay, let's get into it. We're going all the way
back to our first lab of the semester.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Now it's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
The number was Lab thirty seven then and now we're
all the way at Lab eighty three.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yes, I remember all the way back to Lab thirty seven,
and it was so exciting because it was our first
lab back for the semester and it was all about
science denial.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And we were in the throes of the.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Pandemic, seeing a lot of stuff online that just was
not true about the virus, about the vaccine, and so
we had a lot of questions about why people were
falling for what we felt like was the okie doke.
And so I'm really excited to hear an update from
our guests and see what they've been up to since
Lab thirty seven.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I'm Gil Sinantra, the co author of Science Denial, Why
it Happens and what to do about it.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
I'm Barbara Hoefer, co author of Science Denial.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
In the year since our book was published and we
appeared on Dope Labs, Science Denial has not waned.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
What remains deeply disconcerting to us is the number of
individuals who rely on the opinions of others rather than
scientific knowledge and expertise, to make uninformed decisions that can
have deadly consequences.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
You know, when we think about evaluation of science, you
think about thoughtful, deliberative approaches to examining evidence and assessing
expertise when somebody is giving you information. But what we
know is the way we get information, and sometimes information
and reasoning about science is done through crowdsourcing, and it's
based on how you feel about the person giving you
(02:37):
the information, So if they are your friends on Facebook,
or if it's the beliefs of a social group you're in,
or however you choose to identify, whatever they're believing, you're
likely to believe.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Doctors Hofer and Sinatra also have a few reminders about
what you can do to address science denial.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
First, vote for those who support science and who base
related policy decisions on scientific evidence. We will not effectively
address climate change or the pandemic without leadership that values science. Second,
enhance your own digital literacy and make sure you're not
complicent in sharing misinformation. Third, practice listening and communication skills
(03:14):
and take the risk to talk with those who have
differing views. This may be especially helpful with the holidays
coming up.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You know, we just touched on misinformation in our last
lab on social media with doctor Jeff Hancock. The problem
is not going away, it's only growing. And this also
feels related to Lab seventy five with David mcrainey Can
you Change Someone's mind? In that lab, we kind of
explore the group identity the US verse them, and how
(03:42):
being in a group makes us hold on to certain
beliefs even if they don't hold up compared to the science.
Just listen to the disparities that doctor Hofer mentions.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
A July twenty twenty two national survey showed that twenty
nine percent of Republicans did not plan on getting vaccinated
more than a year after vaccinations became widely available and
free to the US public, compared to nine percent of Democrats.
This disparity has become a significant public health challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So thinking back to what we learned in Lab seventy five, right,
you start to see these disparities based on whatever your
social group in this case political party chooses to believe
or chooses to follow. So if you have a group
who says not to vaccines, what does the science tells
about vaccines That it protects you from death from infectious
(04:30):
diseases and stuff. And so if your group is saying
nota vaccines, then you start to see these differences in morbidity,
in death rate. And that's exactly what we saw with COVID.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So really, what we're seeing our trends, it's not that, oh,
if you are a Republican you are biologically predisposed to
rejecting a vaccine. We're seeing that which is something that
we've also talked about in other episodes is that your
social bubble is usually a reflection of who you are.
So it's usually people who are the same religion, same
socioeconomic status, same political views, and so these are trends
(05:07):
that are happening within social circles. You tend to do
what people from your social circle are doing rather than
thinking individually, because we all feel a little bit more
comfortable when we are doing something that is of what
we feel like our culture, so what culturally fits for us.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yes, and it's wild that we're still talking about this
because LAP thirty seven was a long time ago.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
And since that episode aired, there have been boosters that
come out to address the new emerging variants of COVID,
And what the studies are saying is that if eighty
percent of Americans eligible for the latest COVID nineteen booster
get vaccinated by year's end, so the end of twenty
twenty two, it could save about ninety thousand lives and
(05:52):
more than nine hundred and thirty six thousand hospitalizations.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And listen, if you take all this information into account,
you say, yeah, I know how upset we all were
and how terrible we felt about being at home. But
the fact of the matter is that only thirty six
percent of adults older than fifty have gotten their boosters,
and that makes it really tricky when we consider the
potential winter surge with the flu and COVID.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
That's a tough mix.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Right, Joe Biden says the pandemic is over. I don't
know if the CDC agrees.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Joe Biden had to come back and clarify his remarks,
and that should show you even the President can get
it wrong.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
It's easy to speak casually about what's happening for you
now or how it feels. Sometimes I don't want to
look at those cold, hard facts in the mirror. You know.
It's not specific to the pandemic either. I know you
called me out all the time when my.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Now sunk eats. Uh uh.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
When I misinformed today, I said I had stopped interrupting people,
and TT said, oh wow. I said I had stopped,
but I'm back, and TT you just said, oh wow,
I didn't realize you were gone. And I was like, well,
I wasn't. But did I want to hear that?
Speaker 5 (07:00):
No?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Did I spread a misinformation?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yes, Okay, we're all trying our best. We're trying our best,
but it's true.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Misinformation is not just limited to the pandemic. It also
is still affecting the public's attitudes towards everything from elections
to climate change. Yes, so go back and listen to
our first episode from this season, Lab thirty seven, to
find out more about the psychological reasons for science doubt, resistance,
(07:28):
and denial, and for more ideas about what you can
do to promote scientific thinking in general. Okay, so now
we're jumping ahead just a couple of weeks to Lab
thirty nine, and that was called ads a Cart where
we talked to guest expert and author of Arriving Today
from Factory to Front Door, Christopher Mems. I've been wanting
(07:49):
to hear from Christopher Mems because I've been seeing all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I was in Paris. There was a mustard shortage, particularly
Dejon mustard. Okay, I saw that there was a tampon
shortage for a minute. There's also a formula shortage milk
for the babies.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
We need that.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
We just keep seeing things missing. But then also when
I go to the stores, the Christmas stuff is out
with the Halloween stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Exactly, and I'm just waiting on those curtains that I
had ordered way back at lap thirty nine.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
Hello. Hello, this is Christopher Mems checking back in from
the shipping episode. Just a quick update. Since we last talked,
so much material has flowed through the world's supply chains
that there is now an oversupply at stores, so you
can look for discounts at your nearest big box store
(08:39):
and of course at online retailers.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
When I saw this was happening, I immediately said, oh baby,
the sales are going to be on and popping.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I thought the.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Same thing too, but you know, with every action there
is an eco on opposite reaction, and that applies in
this case too. You know, retailers like Target and Walmart
they're having really big sales before the holiday season just
to get rid of some of this oversupply that Christopher's
talking about.
Speaker 7 (09:09):
However, this is not universally good news for the people
who work in those supply chains, because as the price
for shipping over the ocean and trucking on our highways
has crashed inevitably, that means layoffs and the collapse of
small trucking companies. So as ever, this is a very
(09:29):
cyclical industry, and what happens is that there's a contraction,
people get laid off, and then that kind of sets
us up for the next supply chain snafuo because there
are not enough people and not enough capacity in that
pipeline for the next time that we have a pandemic
or some other issue. And this may be contributing to
(09:50):
ongoing inflation, which of course we're all feeling in our
pocketbooks these days.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yes, inflation is real. People are also doing their holiday
shopping earth to avoid the potential rising prices due to inflation.
And if you're still wondering what inflation is, go back
to Lab seventy nine, which we did with doctor Vanessa Perry.
That's about the current US economy and it talks about recessions,
inflation and interest rates.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
Thank you for the opportunity to check in with you,
and as ever, this will be an ongoing story. We
can't forget where everything that we buy and everything that
we rely on actually comes from.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I know we've been talking about winter holidays, you know,
an inflation receession and all these things like that, But
last time I checked the CBS, the target they have
put out the Halloween candy, and so that made us
think about our episode with doctor Marcus Johnson when we
talked about teeth.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Hey everyone, doctor Marcus Johnson. Dental specialists just want to
give a big shout out to the Dope Labs team,
thanks for bringing me back on just to give you
guys a few tips or safe and healthy Halloween. For one,
you have little kids, make sure that they're brushing and
floshing every night. We don't want those sugar bugs to
get in there and causing any cavities. And speaking of cavities,
(11:10):
a great way to keep those out. We already know
what an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
So go to your local dentists. Make sure that you
ask for ceilings. They're good for kids and for adults.
What's happening, what's going on? What's new in dentistry. We
have the Greater New York Dental Meeting that's gonna be
happening November twenty fifth through November thirtieth at the Jacob
Javid Center. All guests are welcome, Registration is free. You
(11:33):
can go there, walk around, find out about new advancements,
new products, and new technology within dentistry. Tons of free giveaway,
and you're gonna learn a lot as well. So hey, everybody,
stay safe, stay healthy, and go easy on the sweets.
Take care.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Some candy is worse for your teeth than others. I
think that's really important to know. Now you might not
want to hear this, but chocolate does the least amount
of damage. I'm not really a chocolate lover, but it
does damage because it melts away really fast, and it's
the sticky stuff and the sour stuff that tends to
stick on your tooth enamel and do more damage. And
so that's also why I'd like to come out that
(12:09):
even though I am on Team Dope Labs and we've
previously voted on this, I still think candy corn is trash,
trash and dangerous to the teeth.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Now you're just grasping at straws, y'all just kind of
come up with reasons for people to stop eating candy corn. No, no, no,
I will not be tricked. Candy corn is a delicious treat.
I will brush my teeth afterwards.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well I'm glad you will, because what I didn't realize
is that November first, right after Halloween, is actually National
brush Day. So go ahead and get your candy corn
bingje in, but just make sure you're hitting those back
molars and you're hitting them right.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I hope everybody's brushing their teeth every day National brush Day.
Every day's National brush Day in this house, but I
understand the celebration.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh my goodness, you see what I have to put
up with.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Let's take a break. When we come back, we'll hear
from more of our favorite guests and some listeners too.
(13:26):
Hey tg, hey, Sekia.
Speaker 8 (13:28):
It is me a long time listener Cat. I just
want to say thanks for all you do. I really
enjoyed the mind the Gap episode. It just really spoke
to me as a librarian and everything we see out
here and how we aren't really all on the same
age digitally. So thank you guys so much for covering
all you do. And take care guys.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
That was longtime listener Cat.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And let me tell you I follow Kat on social
I think we both do follow Kat on social media,
and so we are always on top of when she's
going to different like comic con events, and she does
cosplay so much fun. I love watching her put her
outfits together and getting all the pieces and making sure
everything's just right. I'm like, yes, Cat, you nailed that one.
(14:15):
And she also listens to Dope Labs when she goes
for runs, so she runs long distance and she puts
us in her ears to push her through her run.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Maybe it's like torture. It's like, ah, let me hurry
up and finish.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Kat brought up to Mind the Gap episode that was
really exploring the differences in internet access in urban and
rural areas, and even access to devices and being able
to keep up with this continuously growing digital age. H
And that reminds me of another episode that was definitely
(14:56):
a fave for us that touched on cybersecurity with Christina Marilla.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yes, and this is such a great topic to bring
up because the new UK Prime Minister, Liz Trust her
mobile phone was just hacked. And in situations like these,
what's at stake for consumers and citizens when those in
charge of their government gets hacked.
Speaker 9 (15:19):
That's a great question because the fact of the matter
is that anyone can be hacked, right However, the good
news is that we are all empowered to protect ourselves
and each other or our data and our friends and
families data. So just because someone from the government is hacked. Obviously,
their third model is a little bit different. They're in
(15:40):
the public eye, so there are different precautions and just
you know, steps that they have to take to make
sure that their technology is secure at all times. Right,
it's not a one and done thing. Well, as consumers,
we don't have to rely on like a tech department
to do that. We can actually do that ourselves.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Okay, I don't have whole team, but I do feel
like the prime minister of my house, So yes, what
do I need to do?
Speaker 9 (16:09):
The first thing that we can do is educate ourselves
and understand what are the things that are at risk? Right,
So that could be your bank account information, your logging,
your passwords, basically access to your crown jewels. Right, there's
so much information out there on how to take steps
to protect your online accounts, your digital identity.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And I feel like some of the things that Christina
told us in our previous episode, right, I tried to implement. Yes,
you know, I'm not connecting to every old random Wi Fi.
I stopped doing that.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
What about those late night poker games and things like.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
That, I'm not doing that. I really I don't remember
putting that in the episode but now I feel like
you're telling my business. I'm not playing black jack anymore online,
and yeah, I'm not doing that, So that's.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Good, I think for me.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
You told me about duck duck Go, which listen, I
have seen commercials, I've seen ads, and it just goes
in one ear and out the other. I never registered
what duck duck go was, but now I'm like, Okay,
well that's the place to do all of your searching
because it's really protected. I feel like they should have
came with a better name, like, yeah, what was duck
duck go?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
What are we doing here? How is anybody just to
know what that is?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
But yes, so duck dug go is definitely something that
I have implemented into my life to keep my things
a little bit more secure.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And my favorite thing about duck dug go is that
they give a rating to the website so you can
see the websites that are tracking you the most. And
I'd just like to point out we're not sponsored by them.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
We just like it.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Somebody asked me where we sponsored by Yiddy from our
previous episode on Shape, where I.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Was like no, And at the end of the episode,
it goes this episode was brought to you by Yddi
and Duck Duck Go.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Well, I'm glad to know that it's not just me
and it's not just you taking cybersecurity series. Now, the
United States government is finally showing up to the party too.
The State Department just opens the Bureau of Cyberspace and
Digital Policy in April, and so we got our country's
first cyber ambassador in September.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
That makes me feel good.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Now, I don't know what they're doing. I want to
be really really clear. Yeah, but I feel like it's
only going to become more and more important. It's people
start talking about moving to the metaverse, and I just
saw some people having a conversation in the metaverse and
having like digital avatars of their entire selves, and I
was like, that is so cool, But how do you
(18:42):
keep somebody from hacking a whole you? Now, we talked
about cyberspace, but we also turned our eye to just
regular old scary.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Space everything out there.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And we had a really great episode with doctor Jordan Bim.
Speaker 10 (19:01):
Hi, Doctor Shodia, and doctor WATTLEE. This is Jordan bim
Congratulations on your semester finale. I recently started teaching my
course Explorations of Mars again here at the University of
Chicago to a mix of space sciences and humanity students.
Together we explore humanity's long standing fascination with the Red
planet in history, science and culture. This week in class,
(19:21):
I told my students to tune in and watch SpaceX's
launch of the Crew five mission to the ISS. More
than just another human commercial spaceflight, launch, Crew five is
the first commercial spaceflight commanded by a woman NASA astronaut
Nicole Man. And Nicole Man, who is a member of
the Wylacki tribe, is also the first indigenous woman in space.
(19:42):
So some really important history in diversifying our human presence
in space has just taken place. Wishing you both and
the entire Dope Labs team all the best.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
This was so cool.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Nicole Man is mission commander and she will be on
the ISS for the next five months.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Five months is a long time. I can't even imagine
what we're going to be talking about in five months.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Things change so fast.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I mean just even thinking about this semester and what
has happened over the last year when we're talking about
Lab thirty seven, like wow, yeah, it feels like way
more than a year ago. It feels like ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
It feels like a couple months ago. The most important
thing on my radar, second to COVID was monkey pox.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yes, and now it feels like no one is talking
about it. So we were really excited to talk to
Kenyon Farah again, who is one of our experts on
our monkeypox episode.
Speaker 11 (20:41):
Thank you for the invitation to just give you a
little bit of an update about what's been happening in
terms of the monkey pox outbreak in the United States.
The good news is that we've seen really incredible declines
in monkey pox infections around the country, So this is.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Really good news on the monkey pox front, as Kenyon
just mentioned, and an axious report said that in Washington,
d C. There's been a seventy percent drop in cases
within the past month.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Similarly, the Department of Public Health in Georgia also said
that there was a decrease in new monkeypox cases. So
it feels like maybe we're turning this thing around.
Speaker 11 (21:24):
But that doesn't mean that we're necessarily out of the woods,
because we still have a large proportion of the population
who may be a risk for monkey pox who have
yet to be vaccinated.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So what Kenyon says that we need is resources and
research to help get us out of this potential crisis.
One of the things that Kenyon says that we need
is for Congress to fund monkey pox's treatment, vaccine access,
and research.
Speaker 11 (21:49):
And that includes also funding more of the COVID response,
which could potentially help us with sort of vaccine distribution
for both COVID and for monkey pox. Wreever for all
is requesting that Congress authorized twenty six point nine billion
dollars as requested by the White House, which includes four
point six billion for the US global response and nine
(22:10):
point five billion for research and development for medical tools
to treat and prevent both of these diseases.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Kenyon says, the second thing that we should be asking
for is a very specific research agenda. He looks to
the CDC and the National Institutes of Health, particularly the
National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases to answer questions
about monkey pox that are still urgent and kind of unknown,
like how long and how well do the vaccines work
(22:37):
and pre or post exposure, what is the best way
to use treatments to prevent infection.
Speaker 11 (22:42):
And we also need to know if and where an
animal reservoir monkey pox is established as a result of
the current outbreak. So those are some of the things
that we're requesting from Congress, both in terms of funding
and a research agenda to make sure that we are
in fact able to end the outbreak of monkey pox
and won't see another's fight in the country anytime.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Soon, understanding that there's still so much work to do,
even with things trending up. It reminds me of what
Kenyon said in his episode before when we were talking
about monkey pox, and that is that infectious disease tends
to follow lines of structural oppression. And that's what we've
seen with monkey pox, is what we saw with COVID,
(23:22):
is what we've seen with HIV. I mean, we just
keep seeing it with the science all around. We see
it with sleep disparities.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yes, in the sleep episode, doctor Jean Luis was talking
about how sleep disparities you could see it.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
By zip code.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
People who live in a certain zip code, they have
these different experiences from others. So when we think about that,
it's really important that you know, resources are funneled to
the right places. So the CDC is doing just that
and setting aside fifty thousand doses of genios facts for
black and Hispanic men, who account for the majority of
monkeypox cases but who may have faced barriers accessing the vaccine.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
This was a really good update.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I so appreciate it hearing from some of our guests
from this season t T. This semester had a lot
of episodes.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yes, going from bide weekly to weekly.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
We had the labs come in rapid fire, so we
couldn't just fit everything into one finale. We had to
have two finale, So make sure that you tune in
next week where we're giving more updates on some of
our favorite labs from this season and hearing some more
feedback from all of you.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
That's it for Lab eighty three. What other episodes do
you have questions about? And I want to know what
was your favorite episode? Send us a note on Instagram
or text us or call us at two zero two
five six seven seven zero two eight and tell us
what you thought. We really like hearing from you, so
don't forget text or call two zero two five six
seven seven zero two eight.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And don't forget Their so much more for you to
dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat sheet
for today's lab and additional links and resources in the
show notes. Plus you can sign up for our newsletter
check it out at Dope Labs podcast dot com. Special
thanks to today's guest experts, doctor Barbara Hoefer, doctor Gail Sinatra,
Christina Morillo, Christopher Mems, doctor Marcus Johnson, Kenyan Faroh, and
(25:23):
doctor Jordan Beim.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
You can hear them all on past episodes of Dope
Labs this semester, and we'll have links to their labs
in the show notes, and you can find us on
Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast. Tt Is on
Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore t Sho, and you
can find Zakia at z said So. Dope Labs is
a Spotify original production from Mega Ohm Media Group. Our
(25:48):
producers are Jennie Radlett Mast and Lydia Smith of WaveRunner Studios.
Our associate producer is Caro Orlando. Editing and sound design
by Rob Smerziak, with additional singing sound design by Hannis Brown.
Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex
Zugiura from Spotify creative producer Miguel Contreras. Special thanks to
(26:11):
Shirley Ramos, Jess Borrison, Till krat Key and Brian Marquis
executive producers from Mega Own Media Group, rus T T.
Shoda and Zakiah Wattley
It's hard to believe, but Semester four is coming to
a close.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This was a huge semester for Dope Labs. We went
from bi weekly to weekly episodes and we have covered
so much.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
So for our last two laps of the semester, we
decided that we were going to get back in touch
with a few of our favorite guest experts to hear
updates from their fields. Think of this as like Semester
four's greatest hits, you know, like when Diddy did Diddy
and the Bad Boy Family and all of them came
together and made that Dope album.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah like that.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Welcome to Dope, a weekly podcast that makes this hardcore
science pop culture and a healthy does of friendship.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Okay, let's get into it. We're going all the way
back to our first lab of the semester.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Now it's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
The number was Lab thirty seven then and now we're
all the way at Lab eighty three.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yes, I remember all the way back to Lab thirty seven,
and it was so exciting because it was our first
lab back for the semester and it was all about
science denial.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And we were in the throes of the.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Pandemic, seeing a lot of stuff online that just was
not true about the virus, about the vaccine, and so
we had a lot of questions about why people were
falling for what we felt like was the okie doke.
And so I'm really excited to hear an update from
our guests and see what they've been up to since
Lab thirty seven.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I'm Gil Sinantra, the co author of Science Denial, Why
it Happens and what to do about it.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
I'm Barbara Hoefer, co author of Science Denial.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
In the year since our book was published and we
appeared on Dope Labs, Science Denial has not waned.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
What remains deeply disconcerting to us is the number of
individuals who rely on the opinions of others rather than
scientific knowledge and expertise, to make uninformed decisions that can
have deadly consequences.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
You know, when we think about evaluation of science, you
think about thoughtful, deliberative approaches to examining evidence and assessing
expertise when somebody is giving you information. But what we
know is the way we get information, and sometimes information
and reasoning about science is done through crowdsourcing, and it's
based on how you feel about the person giving you
(02:37):
the information, So if they are your friends on Facebook,
or if it's the beliefs of a social group you're in,
or however you choose to identify, whatever they're believing, you're
likely to believe.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Doctors Hofer and Sinatra also have a few reminders about
what you can do to address science denial.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
First, vote for those who support science and who base
related policy decisions on scientific evidence. We will not effectively
address climate change or the pandemic without leadership that values science. Second,
enhance your own digital literacy and make sure you're not
complicent in sharing misinformation. Third, practice listening and communication skills
(03:14):
and take the risk to talk with those who have
differing views. This may be especially helpful with the holidays
coming up.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You know, we just touched on misinformation in our last
lab on social media with doctor Jeff Hancock. The problem
is not going away, it's only growing. And this also
feels related to Lab seventy five with David mcrainey Can
you Change Someone's mind? In that lab, we kind of
explore the group identity the US verse them, and how
(03:42):
being in a group makes us hold on to certain
beliefs even if they don't hold up compared to the science.
Just listen to the disparities that doctor Hofer mentions.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
A July twenty twenty two national survey showed that twenty
nine percent of Republicans did not plan on getting vaccinated
more than a year after vaccinations became widely available and
free to the US public, compared to nine percent of Democrats.
This disparity has become a significant public health challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So thinking back to what we learned in Lab seventy five, right,
you start to see these disparities based on whatever your
social group in this case political party chooses to believe
or chooses to follow. So if you have a group
who says not to vaccines, what does the science tells
about vaccines That it protects you from death from infectious
(04:30):
diseases and stuff. And so if your group is saying
nota vaccines, then you start to see these differences in morbidity,
in death rate. And that's exactly what we saw with COVID.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So really, what we're seeing our trends, it's not that, oh,
if you are a Republican you are biologically predisposed to
rejecting a vaccine. We're seeing that which is something that
we've also talked about in other episodes is that your
social bubble is usually a reflection of who you are.
So it's usually people who are the same religion, same
socioeconomic status, same political views, and so these are trends
(05:07):
that are happening within social circles. You tend to do
what people from your social circle are doing rather than
thinking individually, because we all feel a little bit more
comfortable when we are doing something that is of what
we feel like our culture, so what culturally fits for us.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yes, and it's wild that we're still talking about this
because LAP thirty seven was a long time ago.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
And since that episode aired, there have been boosters that
come out to address the new emerging variants of COVID,
And what the studies are saying is that if eighty
percent of Americans eligible for the latest COVID nineteen booster
get vaccinated by year's end, so the end of twenty
twenty two, it could save about ninety thousand lives and
(05:52):
more than nine hundred and thirty six thousand hospitalizations.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And listen, if you take all this information into account,
you say, yeah, I know how upset we all were
and how terrible we felt about being at home. But
the fact of the matter is that only thirty six
percent of adults older than fifty have gotten their boosters,
and that makes it really tricky when we consider the
potential winter surge with the flu and COVID.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
That's a tough mix.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Right, Joe Biden says the pandemic is over. I don't
know if the CDC agrees.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Joe Biden had to come back and clarify his remarks,
and that should show you even the President can get
it wrong.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
It's easy to speak casually about what's happening for you
now or how it feels. Sometimes I don't want to
look at those cold, hard facts in the mirror. You know.
It's not specific to the pandemic either. I know you
called me out all the time when my.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Now sunk eats. Uh uh.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
When I misinformed today, I said I had stopped interrupting people,
and TT said, oh wow. I said I had stopped,
but I'm back, and TT you just said, oh wow,
I didn't realize you were gone. And I was like, well,
I wasn't. But did I want to hear that?
Speaker 5 (07:00):
No?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Did I spread a misinformation?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yes, Okay, we're all trying our best. We're trying our best,
but it's true.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Misinformation is not just limited to the pandemic. It also
is still affecting the public's attitudes towards everything from elections
to climate change. Yes, so go back and listen to
our first episode from this season, Lab thirty seven, to
find out more about the psychological reasons for science doubt, resistance,
(07:28):
and denial, and for more ideas about what you can
do to promote scientific thinking in general. Okay, so now
we're jumping ahead just a couple of weeks to Lab
thirty nine, and that was called ads a Cart where
we talked to guest expert and author of Arriving Today
from Factory to Front Door, Christopher Mems. I've been wanting
(07:49):
to hear from Christopher Mems because I've been seeing all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I was in Paris. There was a mustard shortage, particularly
Dejon mustard. Okay, I saw that there was a tampon
shortage for a minute. There's also a formula shortage milk
for the babies.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
We need that.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
We just keep seeing things missing. But then also when
I go to the stores, the Christmas stuff is out
with the Halloween stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Exactly, and I'm just waiting on those curtains that I
had ordered way back at lap thirty nine.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
Hello. Hello, this is Christopher Mems checking back in from
the shipping episode. Just a quick update. Since we last talked,
so much material has flowed through the world's supply chains
that there is now an oversupply at stores, so you
can look for discounts at your nearest big box store
(08:39):
and of course at online retailers.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
When I saw this was happening, I immediately said, oh baby,
the sales are going to be on and popping.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I thought the.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Same thing too, but you know, with every action there
is an eco on opposite reaction, and that applies in
this case too. You know, retailers like Target and Walmart
they're having really big sales before the holiday season just
to get rid of some of this oversupply that Christopher's
talking about.
Speaker 7 (09:09):
However, this is not universally good news for the people
who work in those supply chains, because as the price
for shipping over the ocean and trucking on our highways
has crashed inevitably, that means layoffs and the collapse of
small trucking companies. So as ever, this is a very
(09:29):
cyclical industry, and what happens is that there's a contraction,
people get laid off, and then that kind of sets
us up for the next supply chain snafuo because there
are not enough people and not enough capacity in that
pipeline for the next time that we have a pandemic
or some other issue. And this may be contributing to
(09:50):
ongoing inflation, which of course we're all feeling in our
pocketbooks these days.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yes, inflation is real. People are also doing their holiday
shopping earth to avoid the potential rising prices due to inflation.
And if you're still wondering what inflation is, go back
to Lab seventy nine, which we did with doctor Vanessa Perry.
That's about the current US economy and it talks about recessions,
inflation and interest rates.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
Thank you for the opportunity to check in with you,
and as ever, this will be an ongoing story. We
can't forget where everything that we buy and everything that
we rely on actually comes from.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I know we've been talking about winter holidays, you know,
an inflation receession and all these things like that, But
last time I checked the CBS, the target they have
put out the Halloween candy, and so that made us
think about our episode with doctor Marcus Johnson when we
talked about teeth.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Hey everyone, doctor Marcus Johnson. Dental specialists just want to
give a big shout out to the Dope Labs team,
thanks for bringing me back on just to give you
guys a few tips or safe and healthy Halloween. For one,
you have little kids, make sure that they're brushing and
floshing every night. We don't want those sugar bugs to
get in there and causing any cavities. And speaking of cavities,
(11:10):
a great way to keep those out. We already know
what an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
So go to your local dentists. Make sure that you
ask for ceilings. They're good for kids and for adults.
What's happening, what's going on? What's new in dentistry. We
have the Greater New York Dental Meeting that's gonna be
happening November twenty fifth through November thirtieth at the Jacob
Javid Center. All guests are welcome, Registration is free. You
(11:33):
can go there, walk around, find out about new advancements,
new products, and new technology within dentistry. Tons of free giveaway,
and you're gonna learn a lot as well. So hey, everybody,
stay safe, stay healthy, and go easy on the sweets.
Take care.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Some candy is worse for your teeth than others. I
think that's really important to know. Now you might not
want to hear this, but chocolate does the least amount
of damage. I'm not really a chocolate lover, but it
does damage because it melts away really fast, and it's
the sticky stuff and the sour stuff that tends to
stick on your tooth enamel and do more damage. And
so that's also why I'd like to come out that
(12:09):
even though I am on Team Dope Labs and we've
previously voted on this, I still think candy corn is trash,
trash and dangerous to the teeth.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Now you're just grasping at straws, y'all just kind of
come up with reasons for people to stop eating candy corn. No, no, no,
I will not be tricked. Candy corn is a delicious treat.
I will brush my teeth afterwards.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well I'm glad you will, because what I didn't realize
is that November first, right after Halloween, is actually National
brush Day. So go ahead and get your candy corn
bingje in, but just make sure you're hitting those back
molars and you're hitting them right.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I hope everybody's brushing their teeth every day National brush Day.
Every day's National brush Day in this house, but I
understand the celebration.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh my goodness, you see what I have to put
up with.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Let's take a break. When we come back, we'll hear
from more of our favorite guests and some listeners too.
(13:26):
Hey tg, hey, Sekia.
Speaker 8 (13:28):
It is me a long time listener Cat. I just
want to say thanks for all you do. I really
enjoyed the mind the Gap episode. It just really spoke
to me as a librarian and everything we see out
here and how we aren't really all on the same
age digitally. So thank you guys so much for covering
all you do. And take care guys.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
That was longtime listener Cat.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And let me tell you I follow Kat on social
I think we both do follow Kat on social media,
and so we are always on top of when she's
going to different like comic con events, and she does
cosplay so much fun. I love watching her put her
outfits together and getting all the pieces and making sure
everything's just right. I'm like, yes, Cat, you nailed that one.
(14:15):
And she also listens to Dope Labs when she goes
for runs, so she runs long distance and she puts
us in her ears to push her through her run.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Maybe it's like torture. It's like, ah, let me hurry
up and finish.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Kat brought up to Mind the Gap episode that was
really exploring the differences in internet access in urban and
rural areas, and even access to devices and being able
to keep up with this continuously growing digital age. H
And that reminds me of another episode that was definitely
(14:56):
a fave for us that touched on cybersecurity with Christina Marilla.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yes, and this is such a great topic to bring
up because the new UK Prime Minister, Liz Trust her
mobile phone was just hacked. And in situations like these,
what's at stake for consumers and citizens when those in
charge of their government gets hacked.
Speaker 9 (15:19):
That's a great question because the fact of the matter
is that anyone can be hacked, right However, the good
news is that we are all empowered to protect ourselves
and each other or our data and our friends and
families data. So just because someone from the government is hacked. Obviously,
their third model is a little bit different. They're in
(15:40):
the public eye, so there are different precautions and just
you know, steps that they have to take to make
sure that their technology is secure at all times. Right,
it's not a one and done thing. Well, as consumers,
we don't have to rely on like a tech department
to do that. We can actually do that ourselves.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Okay, I don't have whole team, but I do feel
like the prime minister of my house, So yes, what
do I need to do?
Speaker 9 (16:09):
The first thing that we can do is educate ourselves
and understand what are the things that are at risk? Right,
So that could be your bank account information, your logging,
your passwords, basically access to your crown jewels. Right, there's
so much information out there on how to take steps
to protect your online accounts, your digital identity.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And I feel like some of the things that Christina
told us in our previous episode, right, I tried to implement. Yes,
you know, I'm not connecting to every old random Wi Fi.
I stopped doing that.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
What about those late night poker games and things like.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
That, I'm not doing that. I really I don't remember
putting that in the episode but now I feel like
you're telling my business. I'm not playing black jack anymore online,
and yeah, I'm not doing that, So that's.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Good, I think for me.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
You told me about duck duck Go, which listen, I
have seen commercials, I've seen ads, and it just goes
in one ear and out the other. I never registered
what duck duck go was, but now I'm like, Okay,
well that's the place to do all of your searching
because it's really protected. I feel like they should have
came with a better name, like, yeah, what was duck
duck go?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
What are we doing here? How is anybody just to
know what that is?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
But yes, so duck dug go is definitely something that
I have implemented into my life to keep my things
a little bit more secure.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And my favorite thing about duck dug go is that
they give a rating to the website so you can
see the websites that are tracking you the most. And
I'd just like to point out we're not sponsored by them.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
We just like it.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Somebody asked me where we sponsored by Yiddy from our
previous episode on Shape, where I.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Was like no, And at the end of the episode,
it goes this episode was brought to you by Yddi
and Duck Duck Go.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Well, I'm glad to know that it's not just me
and it's not just you taking cybersecurity series. Now, the
United States government is finally showing up to the party too.
The State Department just opens the Bureau of Cyberspace and
Digital Policy in April, and so we got our country's
first cyber ambassador in September.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
That makes me feel good.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Now, I don't know what they're doing. I want to
be really really clear. Yeah, but I feel like it's
only going to become more and more important. It's people
start talking about moving to the metaverse, and I just
saw some people having a conversation in the metaverse and
having like digital avatars of their entire selves, and I
was like, that is so cool, But how do you
(18:42):
keep somebody from hacking a whole you? Now, we talked
about cyberspace, but we also turned our eye to just
regular old scary.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Space everything out there.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And we had a really great episode with doctor Jordan Bim.
Speaker 10 (19:01):
Hi, Doctor Shodia, and doctor WATTLEE. This is Jordan bim
Congratulations on your semester finale. I recently started teaching my
course Explorations of Mars again here at the University of
Chicago to a mix of space sciences and humanity students.
Together we explore humanity's long standing fascination with the Red
planet in history, science and culture. This week in class,
(19:21):
I told my students to tune in and watch SpaceX's
launch of the Crew five mission to the ISS. More
than just another human commercial spaceflight, launch, Crew five is
the first commercial spaceflight commanded by a woman NASA astronaut
Nicole Man. And Nicole Man, who is a member of
the Wylacki tribe, is also the first indigenous woman in space.
(19:42):
So some really important history in diversifying our human presence
in space has just taken place. Wishing you both and
the entire Dope Labs team all the best.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
This was so cool.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Nicole Man is mission commander and she will be on
the ISS for the next five months.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Five months is a long time. I can't even imagine
what we're going to be talking about in five months.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Things change so fast.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I mean just even thinking about this semester and what
has happened over the last year when we're talking about
Lab thirty seven, like wow, yeah, it feels like way
more than a year ago. It feels like ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
It feels like a couple months ago. The most important
thing on my radar, second to COVID was monkey pox.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yes, and now it feels like no one is talking
about it. So we were really excited to talk to
Kenyon Farah again, who is one of our experts on
our monkeypox episode.
Speaker 11 (20:41):
Thank you for the invitation to just give you a
little bit of an update about what's been happening in
terms of the monkey pox outbreak in the United States.
The good news is that we've seen really incredible declines
in monkey pox infections around the country, So this is.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Really good news on the monkey pox front, as Kenyon
just mentioned, and an axious report said that in Washington,
d C. There's been a seventy percent drop in cases
within the past month.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Similarly, the Department of Public Health in Georgia also said
that there was a decrease in new monkeypox cases. So
it feels like maybe we're turning this thing around.
Speaker 11 (21:24):
But that doesn't mean that we're necessarily out of the woods,
because we still have a large proportion of the population
who may be a risk for monkey pox who have
yet to be vaccinated.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So what Kenyon says that we need is resources and
research to help get us out of this potential crisis.
One of the things that Kenyon says that we need
is for Congress to fund monkey pox's treatment, vaccine access,
and research.
Speaker 11 (21:49):
And that includes also funding more of the COVID response,
which could potentially help us with sort of vaccine distribution
for both COVID and for monkey pox. Wreever for all
is requesting that Congress authorized twenty six point nine billion
dollars as requested by the White House, which includes four
point six billion for the US global response and nine
(22:10):
point five billion for research and development for medical tools
to treat and prevent both of these diseases.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Kenyon says, the second thing that we should be asking
for is a very specific research agenda. He looks to
the CDC and the National Institutes of Health, particularly the
National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases to answer questions
about monkey pox that are still urgent and kind of unknown,
like how long and how well do the vaccines work
(22:37):
and pre or post exposure, what is the best way
to use treatments to prevent infection.
Speaker 11 (22:42):
And we also need to know if and where an
animal reservoir monkey pox is established as a result of
the current outbreak. So those are some of the things
that we're requesting from Congress, both in terms of funding
and a research agenda to make sure that we are
in fact able to end the outbreak of monkey pox
and won't see another's fight in the country anytime.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Soon, understanding that there's still so much work to do,
even with things trending up. It reminds me of what
Kenyon said in his episode before when we were talking
about monkey pox, and that is that infectious disease tends
to follow lines of structural oppression. And that's what we've
seen with monkey pox, is what we saw with COVID,
(23:22):
is what we've seen with HIV. I mean, we just
keep seeing it with the science all around. We see
it with sleep disparities.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yes, in the sleep episode, doctor Jean Luis was talking
about how sleep disparities you could see it.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
By zip code.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
People who live in a certain zip code, they have
these different experiences from others. So when we think about that,
it's really important that you know, resources are funneled to
the right places. So the CDC is doing just that
and setting aside fifty thousand doses of genios facts for
black and Hispanic men, who account for the majority of
monkeypox cases but who may have faced barriers accessing the vaccine.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
This was a really good update.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I so appreciate it hearing from some of our guests
from this season t T. This semester had a lot
of episodes.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yes, going from bide weekly to weekly.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
We had the labs come in rapid fire, so we
couldn't just fit everything into one finale. We had to
have two finale, So make sure that you tune in
next week where we're giving more updates on some of
our favorite labs from this season and hearing some more
feedback from all of you.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
That's it for Lab eighty three. What other episodes do
you have questions about? And I want to know what
was your favorite episode? Send us a note on Instagram
or text us or call us at two zero two
five six seven seven zero two eight and tell us
what you thought. We really like hearing from you, so
don't forget text or call two zero two five six
seven seven zero two eight.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And don't forget Their so much more for you to
dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat sheet
for today's lab and additional links and resources in the
show notes. Plus you can sign up for our newsletter
check it out at Dope Labs podcast dot com. Special
thanks to today's guest experts, doctor Barbara Hoefer, doctor Gail Sinatra,
Christina Morillo, Christopher Mems, doctor Marcus Johnson, Kenyan Faroh, and
(25:23):
doctor Jordan Beim.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
You can hear them all on past episodes of Dope
Labs this semester, and we'll have links to their labs
in the show notes, and you can find us on
Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast. Tt Is on
Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore t Sho, and you
can find Zakia at z said So. Dope Labs is
a Spotify original production from Mega Ohm Media Group. Our
(25:48):
producers are Jennie Radlett Mast and Lydia Smith of WaveRunner Studios.
Our associate producer is Caro Orlando. Editing and sound design
by Rob Smerziak, with additional singing sound design by Hannis Brown.
Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex
Zugiura from Spotify creative producer Miguel Contreras. Special thanks to
(26:11):
Shirley Ramos, Jess Borrison, Till krat Key and Brian Marquis
executive producers from Mega Own Media Group, rus T T.
Shoda and Zakiah Wattley
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