June 8, 2025 • 44 mins
When Ryan Coogler’s blockbuster Sinners smashed the box office, Titi and Zakiya grabbed their popcorn and their microscopes. In this lab, they plunge into the film’s layered world with digital-storytelling scholar Dr. Imani Cheers, unpacking how four film formats, IMAX sound, and meticulous lighting turn a vampire tale into cinematic excellence that will stand the test of time .
If you are looking for a way for a young person in your life to grow their communication skills look no further!
SciComm Summer Camp is a 4-week online program where students learn to:
- Build and tell science-based stories
- Record interviews and podcasts
- Edit audio with beginner-friendly tools
- Create a final project they can share and be proud of
Session 1 begins June 17
Session 2 begins July 22
Scholarships are available!
Dope Labs is where science meets pop culture. Because science is in everything and it’s for everybody.
Stay up to date with Dope Labs, Titi, and Zakiya on Instagram and at DopeLabsPodcast.com
Joining Lemonada Premium is a great way to support our show. Subscribe today at bit.ly/lemonadapremium.
Click this link for a list of current sponsors and discount codes for this show and all Lemonada shows: lemonadamedia.com/sponsors
To follow along with a transcript, go to lemonadamedia.com/show/ shortly after the air date.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm TT and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs.
Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore
science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
If you haven't seen Sinners by now, what have you
been doing?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What are you waiting for?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Cause it's really the biggest movie out right now. Honestly,
it's been three weeks at the top of the box
office and has grossed as of May twentieth, of twenty
twenty five, three hundred and eighteen point nine million dollars.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Now listen.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I am a fan of Spooky Season and Centers is
a horror film, but it's not your typical horror film.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's done in the most beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Absolutely, So I think this is the perfect topic for
today's lab, the science of storytelling.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yes, let's jump into the recitation.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Okay, so what do we know?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, we know that the.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Response to Centers has been huge. People can't stop talking
about it. I'm seeing podcasts. I saw somebody building a
whole world of like these characters and what the meaning
was It was just everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, I had to hurry up and see it.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
You saw it before I did, and I had to
run to go see it because as someone who is
chronically online, I knew the spoilers were coming and I
did not want that spoiled for me. I also know
that Ryan Coogler, the film's writer and director, was very
intentional about every element in every scene, and I was like,
we gotta go back, we gotta go Yes, I know
(01:37):
I had to have missed something. I mean, everything was
just so overwhelming visually that I know I missed something
and it was such good storytelling.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So what do we want to know?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I want to know a little bit more about the
technology used to create it. You know, I've been really
trying to get into my filmmaking.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That my friend is a director.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Honey, well we're directors together because we have a planetarium
film coming out this fall.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Ooh, don't forget to tell the people.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Okay, and Centers was released in multiple formats, but some
of it was Imax, some of it with Standard and
I was like, Okay, what do all these different things mean?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I saw that, you know, it was released in Imax
for a limited time, and then once they took it
out of Imax, people demanded it be put back into Imax.
So then they opened up more dates in the IMAX format.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah wild.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I also want to know more about the symbolism in
the film. We see religion, we see culture, we see music.
What did I miss? I feel like I had to
have missed something, And I feel like depending on your culture,
your background, you see something different. You know so true
and so for the folks who haven't seen it, even
the people who have, like I want to be able
(02:52):
to bring in some supplemental work to help us understand
the film more. I think this is a great place
to start. Let's jump into the dissection. For today's lab,
we have a friend of the show, doctor Emani Cheers.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
My name is Emani Cheers, and I am Isaiah's mom,
Darlene's daughter, and an associate professor of Digital Storytelling at
George Washington University.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I'm going to give some background for our listeners that
this is a very special guest to me because doctor
Emani Cheers, we grew up in the same neighborhood. She
literally was right across the street from my house. I
grew up admiring her. She was our hometown hero. Everybody
knew Imani, loved Imani, and she accomplished so many things.
(03:40):
She was the first black woman that I ever knew
to have a doctorate, and my parents have always been
so proud of her, and that is part of the
reason why I was like, I want to get a
doctorate too, because she was such a good example to
all of us knuckleheads that was in the neighborhood so Zakia.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You saw Sinners the first day it came out, right.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I saw it the Sunday. It came out that Friday,
and I saw that Sunday Easter Sunday, Let the Vampires Rise.
And I saw it not long after that, and I
was very happy that I did, because the spoilers were
coming in. Sinners is packed with really striking visuals. Like
there were moments during that movie where I was getting
very very emotional just watching it, and I couldn't really
(04:22):
pinpoint why, but it was just like everything was just
so striking. What stood out most to you about how
Ryan Kugler told this story through imagery?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
First of all, I would say that by the time
this is released, if anyone is still a spoiler, you're
just you're just missing out. Because this film, of course,
for so many people who might not be familiar with
his work, I've been following him in particular since Fruitbale
Station Yeah, and his work with Michael B. Jordan, And
so I came into the film already aware that he
(04:53):
was at his peak. And so many people would say, well,
wasn't his peak like Black Panther or Black Paper two
or you know, Creed. But I knew from all of
the press that they had done that this was going
to be a very special visual and cinematic story, and
he had been really intentional in the filming process of
using different visual styles and aspect ratios. And so I
(05:18):
hope you two saw it on imax. I did, and
I did not get a chance to see it on
the ultra panavision seventy millimeters IMAX because there's only eight
theaters in the world wow that have that aspect racial
and so Ryan in all of his press previews was
telling people about this is why we shot it this way,
(05:39):
that way.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
And et cetera.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
And so the intentionality behind his storytelling, the intentionality to
use to first of all, film on film, and I
don't think many people realize that, but in the digital
age right now, a lot of people just for costs
in particular, they're not filming on film, they're actually filming
in in these different digital formats.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
And so he went as I guess we would call
old school. And he is a film student.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
He's a student of the craft, and so his intentionality
to shoot on on four different aspect ratios and including
also we'll talk visuals.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
We also talk about the sound.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
We have to talk about the way in which he
incorporated the Dolby sound and all these other elements. And
for those people like myself who were just film nerds,
we just want to go see it in the best
like tell me I want the filmmaker, tell me how
to go enjoy it, Like tell me when I need
what I need to wear?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Do I need to eat first? Do I need to
come fasted?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Because it's about to be a whole revolutionary experience in
the theater, and Ryan and his team are are the
best to do it. And this film in particular is
one of the few films that we're seeing now where
it's the cinematography, it's the filmmaking process that is.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
It's just iconic.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
When we think about storytelling, and I think, like there
are people talking online like there's too many elements to
this story.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
It's gonna be it's gonna.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Be a hodgepodge, And I was like, maybe what you
like is basic, but I want flavors on my plate.
And so I already knew then that I was gonna
have to go in. It was me and my mom.
I said, we're going if you have to close your
eyes grow squeeze them shut because she doesn't like scary movies.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I was like, but we're going to support.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
We were super excited, And what sold me, like you said,
was when he talked about those aspect ratios.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
There was a Kodak click.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Going around on social where he was talking about that,
and I said, Oh, this is somebody who's in their bag.
Like when I see Beyonce rehearsing that, I'm like, Oh,
we really have to we really have to lock in
and be ready for this album. Like so when you
see clips like that, it felt like the equivalent of
that somebody really in their craft.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
You shot the film using two different camera systems. One
proprietary to Panavision is called Ultra Panavision seventy, used on
films like Like Being Her and most recently The Hateful Eight.
But another format we use is Imax Imax film cameras.
Those cameras spin the film in a horizontal fashion, and
they spent it using fifteen perse per front.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Now I got there and I felt like, I know,
I said, I could have all those flavors, but there
were new When I think about my brain taste buds,
there were new taste buds being activated. There were so
many symbols and visual motifs and things that reminded me
of growing up in the South and like just stuff
that like even him when they talked about a Wooden Nickel,
(08:35):
it's just I could hear my grandma saying, don't let
nobody tell you a Wooden Nickel. And I was like,
I felt like I was being transported to my real
life in the back of my head to the story
they were telling. And I'm curious about some of those
symbols and sometimes symbolism and language. What messages do you
think Ryan Coogler was trying to convey with the storytelling here,
Oh is a kid.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
That's so good because one of the things that I
don't know if many people, your audience and others are
aware that Ryan is truly a multifaceted creative, So he's
not just a director, but he's also the writer, and
he writes. He wrote Fruit Bale Station, he wrote Black Panther,
he wrote Creed, he wrote Centers, and he only directs
(09:19):
projects stories that he writes. A lot of times we
can even go back to someone like a Spike Lee,
who also was you know, kind of really was at
the forefront of directors being these multi creatives in this space.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I think Tyler Perry takes it.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Too far, but we're not talking about that today, because
it's important to have multiple voices in your creative like room,
and Ryan does that really, really well. And so whenever
he dives into a script, he's going to do all
of the references and research required to make sure that
(10:00):
it's authentic.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
And this is everything.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
And so when people which I do encourage to go
back and watch some of his earlier works, all of
them with Michael B. Jordan, which I also love that relationship.
They're definitely a craftsman and their muse, their brothers, their
creative collaborators in all of these works. But visually, Ryan
(10:24):
wanted to bring a I like to look at it
kind of like a big pot of gumbo mm. And there's,
as you mentioned, sort of like these brain these visual
taste buds. So we are not only going to get
the stunning visuals from the cinematography and the choices again
to shoot on ultra panavisions, seventy millimeter Imax, all these
(10:45):
other things, but the film draws these visual inspiration from
you might have seen and for people like myself who
who grew up watching shows like Good Times, Ernie Barnes,
the Sugarshack, and it's a painting yes, yes, and the
elements in centers, in particular when it's spun all around music.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's such a great point and I feel like there's
a lot of motifs.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Is that the right word throughout the film?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Can you talk about some of those through lines that
you see throughout?
Speaker 5 (11:21):
Right?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Music is a through line throughout, Religion is a through
line throughout. Then we also obviously have I call this
historical horror, so I know, like your mom might have
been framed. People are like, why don't really do horror films?
And I was like, well, it's historical horror. People are like,
well what is historical horror? And I was like, oh, well,
did you ever see? And then I start with listening,
you know, I was like, did you ever see The Watchmen,
(11:42):
for example, Or did you ever watch with Regina King
that was on HBO Unfortunately on it got one season?
Or did you ever see the television Underground? Yeah, Misha
Green directed Underground. So like, when you really look at
these contexts or these stories have historical accuracies, right, that's
what are called historical horror, They have historical accuracies.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
There was a moment we had a conversation in in
centers about the klu Klux Klan.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
There were all of these different elements. There were these
conversations that talked about the different Asian communities within the
Mississippi Delta, and people were like, wait a minute, how
are you going to have shop owners who like own
businesses across the street and like understanding segregation and why
that was super important. So all of these visuals, but
they came together in this melting pot, and the best
way I can describe that is like a big pot
(12:25):
of gumbo. There's all of these elements there that really
bring about this beautiful story about these two twin brothers
who are coming back to their hometown after spending a
considerable amount of time in the North in Chicago, working
learning from we'll just say different communities, and they've then
(12:48):
decided to bring that back home and open up a
juke jump and the film is based on and the
story kind of starts from smoke and Stack coming back
home and buying this bill on this property and then
opening up for one night spoiler alert or not for
one night only, and then everything ensues.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Can we take a small step back before we move
forward and just explain to some folks, because I feel
like some of the terminology some people don't understand in media.
What you know a writer, a director, a producer, a DP, like,
who are these people and what their roles are? Can
you go through a few of the ones that are
important when creating something like this?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Absolutely, And so it's really important when we think of
any kind of creative project, right, So most of us
are engaged with television, film, video, etc. And what you
see what comes kind of in this final package. You
would have no idea that in many instances anywhere between
five to fifty people contributed to what we are watching.
(14:07):
Starting even from the top. You're gonna have your executive producers, right,
You're gonna have people that are really responsible in particular
for finding funding and financing right, and those are the
ones who are going to make sure that not only
there are the resources to hire and pay everyone, but
also to contribute to post production all these other elements.
So you have your EPs, and then you have a
(14:28):
number of other producers. They deal with logistics. So when
you're thinking of who's gonna staff this project, who's gonna
fill out the call sheet? What, you're gonna have your
director someone who comes and in particular, the best way
to describe them is they control the film's artistic and
dramatic vision. They visualize the screenplay. So you have the
writers who write the story and many times and fortunately
(14:49):
if it's a if it's a really strong writing room,
we're gonna have multiple voices in there coming together. Writing
room tim to be anywhere between. Again, one not so
great to like ten people engaged in telling the story,
but for films you would have one, maybe two writers.
And Ryan writes all of his work, right, so he's
going to be the person writing the script, creating all
(15:09):
of the different characters, doing a lot of the historical
references and research and making sure everything that is accurate
as he wants. And then he's also the person that
brings that creative vision to the film. And then you
have one of my favorite roles, which is the director
of photographer also known as the DP, also known as
a cinematographer, and they were over responsible for overseeing all
the aspects of the camera work and that includes also
(15:31):
some lighting. But they'll have a team which you call
your grips and your gaffers, and those are individuals that
are going to be making sure that all the lighting
and in centers. That was really important the lighting techniques
that they use. Again because the majority of the film
was actually was filmed quote unquote at night right like
again no spoiler alert, but it takes place really from
dust till dawn. That's the bulk of the story, and
(15:54):
so filming in dark light and all these spaces.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Really really important.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Camera operator, you're gonna assist directors at getting their location managers.
Your first AD one of the most essential positions on
the crew. They track the daily progress of the filming schedule.
They prepare call sheets. Your second AD assistant director. They're
going to help because Centers also had a large they
had a large cast. Yeah, so your second AD is
really going to be a person helping to control and
(16:20):
help to make sure people know where they're supposed to
be when they're supposed to be Art directors. And then
of course one of my favorite also the costume designers. Yeah,
so Ruth got to give a shout out to Ruth Carter.
If you don't know her, she's also iconic. She works
with Ryan pretty I won't say exclusively, but she is
also one of his creative muses and they come together
and they create everything again, from Black Panther all the
(16:43):
way all the way up through Centers. Having that historical
accuracy is there so lots of different roles, but though
we're probably the main essential ones, I.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Think in a lot of ways in the storytelling, Centers
did some things differently. So you've mentioned it being a
historical horror, and when I think about historical horror, think
about like Django Unchain, even though it's not technically a
horror movie, but I think about.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Pieces like that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I think about Rosewood, which was probably drama, it still
felt like horror to me, and that was based on
a true story, Yes, based on a true story. And
so I think I consider these things and how these
communities are represented. Now, what I was excited to see
is typically there's this saying that in or trope that
like in horror movies, black people are going to they
kill the black people off. First, we didn't have that
(17:27):
in Centers, but we did see I felt like some
women sacrificing themselves or being sacrificed. And there is a
critic that I follow Brooke Obie and she graduated from Hampton.
I know her, she was in the same class as me.
And Brooke has talked about the representation of women, particularly
how Annie showed up in the movie and how she
protected Smoke but not herself. You have a book that's
(17:50):
the Evolution of Black Women in Television Mammys, Matriarchs and Mistresses,
and you explore how Black women have been represented in
television over time. And I'm thinking about how we see
Annie being represented. I'm curious about how you feel is
Sinners pushing the envelope for Black women characters.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
That is such a great question and it's so important
because I for many people who might not even know
who the actresses are who play Annie and Pearlene, and
so Wenumi Musoka, who is an absolute icon in her
own right, Jamie Lawson plays Pearline, and so these two
women set up as yes, love interests and kind of
(18:30):
juxtaposed to one another. But I actually I love Annie's character.
I love everything about her. I love her her use
of which again was the historical references, but her use
of African and Creole spirituality. I will not use the
term witchcraft because it's not accurate. It is spirituality. And
(18:54):
we see the necklace, the pouch that she gave him,
Michael B. Jordan, and how when he asked her, you
can do all this all year, he calls it magic,
all of your magic.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Why couldn't you save our baby?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
And she tells him in this really tender, beautiful moment,
not only like I wasn't supposed to.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
I couldn't. It wasn't time.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
And then sort of fast forward to at a certain
scene in the film where you literally see the power
of that pouch in a moment where he's about to
be he's about to he's getting attacked and you don't
know is he going to be killed, and you see.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
It reverberates off of his body.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
And I thought that was such a beautiful way to
have again these larger conversations around the power of women
and the power of women as spiritual in the spiritual
and physical realm, and I thought Annie's character played that
balance so unbelievably well.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
She was more in tune.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
She understood elements in the film, in the storyline in
particular as it related to vampires of what to do,
she had an under she just had a further understanding
because of her spiritual acumen that she was able to
identify things and different sort of storylines in the film,
which I thought was just really really powerful in terms
of representation, just having Annie's character and Mary's character be
(20:29):
sort of also juxtaposed and Haley Sandfield who plays Mary,
and so one of the things I also love about
Ryan and all of his casting is that he very
intentionally puts black actors and actresses, in particular actresses and
dark skinned black actresses at the forefront end in major
roles in a way that you just don't see in
other places. So that's where I feel like the representation
(20:51):
of black women and in particular, very specifically in Ryan
Cooliger's work defies stereotypes. He is intentional about who he cast,
He's intentional about the roles and connections. I could even
go back to Lo Pizza Yango in Black Panther, right
the intentionality to have this gorgeous, beautiful, quote unquote, dark
skinned black woman playing the objects of love, playing love interests.
(21:15):
They're not just the buddy best friend. These are women
to be desired and to be loved and to be
cherished and to be protected in a way that we
don't often see in other stories. And Ryan is intentional
about that. And I believe that also comes from Ryan
being married to a black woman. There are so many
other things that come out in his personal life that
(21:37):
I feel comes in his artistry, in his ability to
write roles that ultimately want to protect black women, and
so I personally am always so pleasantly surprised to see
what he's going to bring into the visual and representation
(21:58):
conversation as a relatable women.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I love that point because Hailey Steinfeld's character and Annie's character,
I feel like in another movie it would have been
switched absolutely. In the movie She's meant to be white passing,
she would have been the oh my goodness, this is
the darling, this is the woman that you know is
holding you down that and then they would have then
(22:22):
a darker skinned black woman might have been the one
that was kind of like on the evil side, you
know what I mean. So it was so beautiful to
see and you talking us through that. It really shows
that it's an intentional thing from Ryan Coogler's point of view,
and such a powerful message to sin and just even
including their body types. Absolutely like the desirability of a
(22:45):
woman that is plus sized.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
US size, sexual desirable.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
And that's the part that hit me so frequently, because
when you talk about someone like a Michael B. Jordan
just as a character, we've all seen him. I remember
him on the wire like I've watched his career for
over twenty years, and so to see the evolution of
him also to see the characters and the roles in
which he chooses, because now he's at the point he
gets to choose, of course, and when he works with Ryan,
(23:12):
I believe that they bring the best out of each
other in a way that only these types of directing, acting,
inventing characters, developing storylines, finding the depth in the richness
and so Ryan's way of again representing black women and
(23:35):
whether they be mothers. I can go back to Creed
with Felicia Rashad, that's one of my other favorite Like
I love her roles and to even Tessa Thompson and
some other even like her, the intentionality of her being
hearing impaired, and then when they have their daughter, and
then her being hearing right, and so all of these
little nuances, This inclusion of the depth of the diversity
(23:57):
in a time in which it's honestly under it is
really refreshing to see in these creative spaces. So I
think this is really important right when we see these
these roles in these characters. And I will just say
very very quickly, because I think it's super important. Autumn
Gerald is a cinematographer for Sinners, and she is a powerhouse,
(24:18):
but it's also historic for her to be a woman,
a woman of color, to film on this seventy millimeter imax.
I mean we're talking it's heavy, Like I don't know
if you all, if your audience or if you all
have visual like we're talking, you know this like picking
up and holding as you're filming, and of course there's
all these different mounts and things. But I mean, you're
talking a couple hundred pounds. This is not light work
(24:40):
by any means what she was able to do. Autumn,
and she's worked with Ryan before, but she's just She's
also got to give that props to Ryan intentionally, again,
having a woman of color be the cinematographer, that's intentional.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I want to go back to what you were saying about,
like historical horror.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I think that horror films that.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Use the plight of black folks, how the black existence
can be somewhat of a horror film. I mean, we
saw that with get Out, we see that with Sinners.
Can you talk about how Sinners is contributing to how
black history is being told? And like, twenty years from now,
(25:36):
forty years from now, fifty years from now, how do
you think that this will stand the test of time
and how do you think people will feel about it
in the future.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Well, one, I think we should point out that in
twenty five years Ryan owns this film and that is
huge and people are like, well, why is this even
a big deal? It's a big deal because that's not
what normally happens. Ryan is not the first director to
be able to own his films outright, and that he
isn't the first director to get some of what he deserved.
I won't even say required, but like he deserved a
(26:07):
number of a perks.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
He's over a billion.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Dollars at the box office in his career, and so
quite frankly, he should be able to get what he wants.
And he wanted to own this film in twenty five years,
and I think that's really really important, and he talks
about that quite openly, and the reason for because this
film is so personal to him because of the historical reference.
It is set in a time that I think most
(26:32):
audiences should or couldn't understand. But we're talking during some
of the most brutal times for black people in the
South and during the reconstruction period. And so this isn't
to give your audience any sort of like American history lesson,
but I think it is important to note that sort
of after the Civil War, where the US government gave
(26:54):
reparations to white slave owners, that's also like fact check
that everyone, because that's that's a fact, gave them reparations,
and then black folks had to not only make away,
they never got the forty acres and a mule that
were promised, and they really had to build communities from nothing.
(27:16):
They had to build communities. And when I say communities,
that truly mean they had to build schools, They had
to build churches, houses of worship, They had to build
all of the elements, whether it be a post office,
the dentist, a doctor's office. Because we're in the time
of deep segregation. So all though black people in the
US at the time were quote unquote not they were
(27:36):
no longer enslaved, they by no means were free.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
And there were all of.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
These policies, all of these laws that restricted what black
people could own, where they could go physically like movement
as they can move around. And so this film is
set in a time and in a part of this
country that was some of the most hostile to black people.
So that's partially when you see Michael B. Jordan as
small can stack. These twins who are coming back with
(28:03):
money with they had risen out of a certain we'll
just say socioeconomic class at the time, and to do
that they had to go north. Yeah, they couldn't do
that unfortunately in their home community and their home state
of Mississippi. They had to go up north, and they
were successful and said endeavors and then they came back home.
But their reference and why I think this movie is
(28:25):
going to be timeless is because Ryan as a student
of history and a student of accuracy as a filmmaker,
intentionally made it so that this is not a Disney movie,
Like this is not a movie where where we get
to play in fantasy and dare I say.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Make believe and all these things.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
People are like, well, obviously vampires are not real, and yes,
but there is a symbolism too with the vampires and
what they wanted to do, right, and so there's all
of these sort of larger conversations, but in terms of
its historical relevance, it's so unbelievable, like it's just accurate,
and even down to the way in which the characters,
(29:03):
whether it be their accents. People were so shocked where
they were like, wait a second, why are the Asian
actually white? They all have like these deep Southern accents,
and like it's true, and who were the business owners
and the fact that they showed that scene where they
showed that Dolly where you know, the daughter walks across
the street to the other store to tell the mom, hey,
so and so it's back.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
They want you to do.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
X, Y and Z right and so and they're across
the street and it's because black people had to say
on one side of the street. White people don't say
other and the understanding of segregation and how it impacted
and why when Mary even came over, everybody was like,
who is this, Like, you ain't supposed to be here.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
You're gonna get us in trouble. In trouble, you were
going to bring the clan.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I think it's really important the way, and I was
hoping for them to come back around.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
But the chick Taw, we can't stop.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
We have to talk about the Native American and that
reference in the very beginning, and if you missed it,
I'm sorry for you.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Please go back and watch it again.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
But the reference and and that understanding and how the
Chicktaw when they came in at the very beginning, and
they were literally they were trying to save the couple,
the white couple from the vampire. They're like, hey, we
know somebody just rolled up to your house. That is
not who you think he is.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Let me you know.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
But then again, I'm gonna let you have that, right.
He was like, okay, I tried, and then they dipped right.
They were like, the sun is going down and we
have to keep moving right.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Ryan Coogler's use of the Choctaw tribe was so intentional,
and Zaki and I have been reading a lot of
thing pieces and analysis on that particular scene, and we
found some interesting things. One, the chalk Taw people have
a strong history with music to tell stories, and so
it's possible that Remick Remick is the vampire in the
movie that is also Irish, that Remick was drawn to
(30:45):
the chalk Taw people because of that, yes, But then
also the Choctaw tribe has a unique history with Irish people,
where way back in the day, back at eighteen forty seven,
they sent one hundred and seventy dollars to Ireland, so
that was that's about five thousand dollars today to help
starving families during the Great Potato Famine in Ireland. So
(31:06):
it feels like all of these things are meant to
be a backdrop to that scene. So maybe Remick was
drawn to the music and because of their spirituality and
their strong like Annie like how we were saying, Annie
has strong spirituality, so she was able to see that
they were vampires. Maybe that's what happened, and so they
were able to drive them out, tell them get out
(31:26):
of here, and knew okay, the sun's going down.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
We got to get out of here. Good luck to y'all.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So good that give it to me in reverse. I'm
ready for the prequel. I'm ready for the preson.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
We need a prequel.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
There's no shortage of material, there's no shortage of story
in all these things that were shared. And you know,
one of the things, I think you gave us a
little history lesson. But I think for people who are
not steeped in Black American history, who don't have that experience,
who don't have that as part of their culture, right
there are layers to this film that you are missing.
(32:00):
Same thing if you are not trained in.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Some visual literacy.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
For some of the long lines, you know, like I
think you said, like the Dolly's shot across connecting but
also showing the difference. I saw a lot of people
talking about just how some of the scenes were framed.
What do you think or what do you recommend people consume,
whether it's reading, listening, watching, to help them evaluate centers
(32:25):
more critically and closely, or to expand their horizon their
storytelling world.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
What I will say is is a really beautiful time
right now, and just film and cultural studies, but in
particular and very specifically of course black film and cultural studies.
There are so many amazing authors out there who are
writing and sharing, and so if you're just like, okay,
(32:53):
I am really interested in any of these elements in
any of this work. My Sister the Serial is one
of my favorite books on Braithway. I love that book
for everything that it teaches and shares with us about horror.
I think it's also really interesting because, as I said,
I really appreciate and this is television, so it's not
(33:16):
necessarily film, but The Watchman does a really phenomenal job.
And one of the shows that I wish would have
had more time to really explore and galvanize my the
ones love Craft Country for those who might remember Lovecraft
Country also on HBO. Really said that only got one season,
but I thought that was I mean, such a phenomenal film.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
Again, love Craft Country Underground.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Both of those are together by Misha Green, as I
shared before, and she's a show writer. She's a screenwriter, director, producer,
but she really has it kind of on lock. So
people who are like, oh, I want to see more
of this, go check out those two.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
I am editing have edited.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
It'll be out it's called Sacred Sisterhoods, a Celebration of
Black Women's Friendships on television and in film. It'll be
out October of twenty and twenty five, and I'm so grateful.
There's fourteen other sas that contributed to this work and
black women, black scholars, and we dive into it. And
one of the things that I love about even Ryan's work,
and as I mentioned before, about Wunumi and Jamie as
(34:22):
Annie and Perline, these black women and sort of their relationships.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
So we write about that. We write about the way.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
In which black women's relationships have evolved and how they're celebrated.
And so for people who are like really interested, I'm like,
now is the time there is so much content available
and so whether it be like who you're reading, what
you're reading. BURRETTA Smith Schamad she's down at Emory University
in Atlanta. She's one of the just absolutely amazing television
(34:53):
and film scholars that is really going to break down
some of these elements.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
Herman Gray is another one.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Donald, if you really want to go back, Donald Bogol
is one of the goats in terms of looking at
the way in which black representation on television and film, and.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
He's going to give you everything.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
He's going to take you all the way back to
Menstrol and he's going to bring you all the way
up to the present.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
And these are just the work is out there. It's
such a rich time.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
I'm excited. I know.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I tell t T all the time about one of
my favorite authors, who I feel like is super slept On.
When I was watching Sinners, when I left, I was like, Oh,
I'm ready for one of her books to have a movie.
But she's done some stuff, and I think Jordan Peele
has talked to her about some things before. Tanana Rivdoo
who Yes, I love Yes, And I was like, this
(35:40):
feels right up that Alley. I was too young to
be reading those books. They were scary, but I love them.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
And it really felt it felt good.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
If you were using Sinners in your classroom, what themes
or scenes would you build a lesson around and why?
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Oh, well, first of all, I am going to be
using Sinners in my class. I'm rewriting. I have a
class that I teach every fall. It's called Race and
Representation in the Media. And I have a whole section
and I break it down because it's obviously not just
about black folks. But I start with Isabelle Wilkerson's cast,
and then I moved through when I go through Nicole
(36:20):
Hannah Jones sixteen nineteen project and all those things, but
with Sinners and the way I'm reworking it, the way
in which they use music in Cinners, and the scene
where you have the musical and visual montage in the
juke joint where the nephew is playing and you see
(36:46):
everything from African dance to hip hop.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
It actually broadens.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
It's not just black music and you have Asian like
it's just a beautiful and I need to watch it
and time it again because I was so mesmerized the
first time. I want to say, this scene might have
been two and a half minutes and I could have
experienced it for two and a half hours.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
Yes, and it was the way it was.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
There's no dialogue in the scene, and that to me
is what is so powerful. And then we started this
conversation talking about visuals, and we start we talk about
the cinematography. We talked about the film format that it
was shot on, but that scene in particular, and again
no but also spoiler alert, it thematically sets up also
(37:38):
what's about to come right, And so I remember while
I'm sitting in the theater watching, I was like, I'm
smiling my like her face hurts from smiling so much,
and I felt it. Knowing as a storyteller, I was like, oh,
it's something about to pop off. I everby too happy,
like the bars popping, the fish fry is hot. I
(38:00):
was like, in somebody about to die, I said, I know,
in about thirty seconds it's about to get lit, and
against spoiler alert, it did. But that scene right there
is the one that I will play again and again.
And I also want to point out which I think
is really interesting because there was there's all of this
black soul, hip hop and R and B and obviously
(38:23):
blues and jazz, but then the vampires also play music.
And as someone who I won't say that the vampire
story i've seen True Blood, I'm sort of aware of
the musing. I understand the whole concept that they have
to be invited in, and I think that the use
(38:44):
of music, and so I gain not that scene in particular,
but I also loved how the vampires and I think
there was like Irish folklore music being played. Also and
I was like, it felt random air quotes, because we
know nothing is random with Ryan.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Everything is intentional.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
But I do love even that intentionality of bringing in
and having them play on what was it a banjo?
Speaker 5 (39:05):
If I'm not mistaken, he's like strumming. It was awesome.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Ryan is really big on details and leaving things stories
lines just a little bit open, right. It's almost like
he doesn't know if he wants, Like I might want
to come back and do another one.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
I might want to do a sequel, maybe this is
a trilogy. We don't know.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
But the best part of Ryan is you don't know, right,
and so things are kind of left to let your
imagination kind of run free in a way that I
think as a creative is really amazing. But it's that
montage I mentioned, is it's surreal. It's a celebration of
black culture.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I think a lot of people when we go to
the movies, we just see it as entertainment. But it
is art first and foremost. And I think watching Centers
through an artful lens rather than an entertainment lens, like
it's entertaining, but the art is just real, really.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Beautiful, absolutely, And I think like when I look at
how music, how culture. I think of how blues was
used in the film as the language of resistance. Right,
Sammy was resisting his father's wishes for his life, and
not necessarily defiance of him, but it would be defying
(40:25):
his own self and passions if he did not follow
through with those dreams. The transcenential power of music, the
cultural elements of cultural appropriation and legacy, music as this
like vessel for storytelling. And then of course just how
he just again that going back to that analogy of
that pot of gumbo, just the blending of drunkers and
(40:46):
cultures and all of these different things, and it leaves you.
I left the theater feeling not even satisfied. Like we've
all gone to a film or seen something and you're like,
well that was a waste of time and money, Like
I could have been doing anything else, but I left
trying to figure out when I could go see it again.
(41:08):
He is one of our great storytellers of our generation.
He's one of our great filmmakers. I think most people now,
if you didn't know, I knew what fruit Bale station.
As I mentioned that this is someone who everything that
he produces everything, He writes everything he directs.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I want to see, Amani, thank you so much for
being here, Like we could have talked all day long. Yes, absolutely,
And after this conversation now I know for for a
fact that I need to go back and see the
movie again. And it really just makes me think about
what an amazing time it is to be able to
(41:43):
witness the genius of somebody like Ryan Cookler and other
filmmakers just like him who are doing interesting storytelling, and
to have access. Sometimes I'm like the Internet is crazy,
but other times I'm so.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Glad we have access to all these stories.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
You know, I know, I know, and we could use
that to apply to so many aspects of our lives
in all of the artistic ways that we express ourselves.
Using that high level attention to detail, being a student
of your craft. It's it's just a beautiful thing to see.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
And that's really what we're trying to do here Dope LPs.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Like we are not trying to position ourselves as all knowing,
because we know that the fun is in the learning.
So I think continuing to learn is exactly what we're
trying to do with Dope LAPS. But we're also trying
to spread the love and the possibility for the next
generation that wants to come along after us and become
the next science storytellers. Absolutely, and I think that there
are some really great programs out there right now for
(42:36):
young people to you know, hone in on those skills,
learn how to tell stories and scientific stories and just
storytelling in general, because that is how we connect to folks.
So if you are interested or know a six through
twelfth grader who might be interested in scientific storytelling, check
out the Cycom Summer Camp. Program is all online. It's
(42:59):
four weeks and you can get more info at sycom,
launchpad dot com. Dope Labs is sponsoring this program, so
there are scholarships available because we're proud sponsors. We are
proud sponsors, so please please please go check that out,
send it to anyone that you know with somebody that's
in the grade six through twelve.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
They will not regret it.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
If you have a child that's looking for inspiration, this
is where it's at. We wouldn't sponsor it if we
didn't believe in it one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
You can find us on x and Instagram at Dope Labs.
Podcast TT is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore,
t s h O and you can find Takiya at
z said so.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Dope Labs is a production of Leimanada Media.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate
producer is Issara Sives. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited
and mixed by James Barber. Lamanada Media is. Vice President
of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from
iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvio.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Marketing lead is Alison Kanter.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Original music composed and produced by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex
sudi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab
is executive produced by us T T Show Dia and
Kia Wattley.
I'm TT and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs.
Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore
science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
If you haven't seen Sinners by now, what have you
been doing?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What are you waiting for?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Cause it's really the biggest movie out right now. Honestly,
it's been three weeks at the top of the box
office and has grossed as of May twentieth, of twenty
twenty five, three hundred and eighteen point nine million dollars.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Now listen.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I am a fan of Spooky Season and Centers is
a horror film, but it's not your typical horror film.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's done in the most beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Absolutely, So I think this is the perfect topic for
today's lab, the science of storytelling.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yes, let's jump into the recitation.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Okay, so what do we know?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, we know that the.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Response to Centers has been huge. People can't stop talking
about it. I'm seeing podcasts. I saw somebody building a
whole world of like these characters and what the meaning
was It was just everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, I had to hurry up and see it.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
You saw it before I did, and I had to
run to go see it because as someone who is
chronically online, I knew the spoilers were coming and I
did not want that spoiled for me. I also know
that Ryan Coogler, the film's writer and director, was very
intentional about every element in every scene, and I was like,
we gotta go back, we gotta go Yes, I know
(01:37):
I had to have missed something. I mean, everything was
just so overwhelming visually that I know I missed something
and it was such good storytelling.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So what do we want to know?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I want to know a little bit more about the
technology used to create it. You know, I've been really
trying to get into my filmmaking.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That my friend is a director.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Honey, well we're directors together because we have a planetarium
film coming out this fall.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Ooh, don't forget to tell the people.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Okay, and Centers was released in multiple formats, but some
of it was Imax, some of it with Standard and
I was like, Okay, what do all these different things mean?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I saw that, you know, it was released in Imax
for a limited time, and then once they took it
out of Imax, people demanded it be put back into Imax.
So then they opened up more dates in the IMAX format.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah wild.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I also want to know more about the symbolism in
the film. We see religion, we see culture, we see music.
What did I miss? I feel like I had to
have missed something, And I feel like depending on your culture,
your background, you see something different. You know so true
and so for the folks who haven't seen it, even
the people who have, like I want to be able
(02:52):
to bring in some supplemental work to help us understand
the film more. I think this is a great place
to start. Let's jump into the dissection. For today's lab,
we have a friend of the show, doctor Emani Cheers.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
My name is Emani Cheers, and I am Isaiah's mom,
Darlene's daughter, and an associate professor of Digital Storytelling at
George Washington University.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I'm going to give some background for our listeners that
this is a very special guest to me because doctor
Emani Cheers, we grew up in the same neighborhood. She
literally was right across the street from my house. I
grew up admiring her. She was our hometown hero. Everybody
knew Imani, loved Imani, and she accomplished so many things.
(03:40):
She was the first black woman that I ever knew
to have a doctorate, and my parents have always been
so proud of her, and that is part of the
reason why I was like, I want to get a
doctorate too, because she was such a good example to
all of us knuckleheads that was in the neighborhood so Zakia.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You saw Sinners the first day it came out, right.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I saw it the Sunday. It came out that Friday,
and I saw that Sunday Easter Sunday, Let the Vampires Rise.
And I saw it not long after that, and I
was very happy that I did, because the spoilers were
coming in. Sinners is packed with really striking visuals. Like
there were moments during that movie where I was getting
very very emotional just watching it, and I couldn't really
(04:22):
pinpoint why, but it was just like everything was just
so striking. What stood out most to you about how
Ryan Kugler told this story through imagery?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
First of all, I would say that by the time
this is released, if anyone is still a spoiler, you're
just you're just missing out. Because this film, of course,
for so many people who might not be familiar with
his work, I've been following him in particular since Fruitbale
Station Yeah, and his work with Michael B. Jordan, And
so I came into the film already aware that he
(04:53):
was at his peak. And so many people would say, well,
wasn't his peak like Black Panther or Black Paper two
or you know, Creed. But I knew from all of
the press that they had done that this was going
to be a very special visual and cinematic story, and
he had been really intentional in the filming process of
using different visual styles and aspect ratios. And so I
(05:18):
hope you two saw it on imax. I did, and
I did not get a chance to see it on
the ultra panavision seventy millimeters IMAX because there's only eight
theaters in the world wow that have that aspect racial
and so Ryan in all of his press previews was
telling people about this is why we shot it this way,
(05:39):
that way.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
And et cetera.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
And so the intentionality behind his storytelling, the intentionality to
use to first of all, film on film, and I
don't think many people realize that, but in the digital
age right now, a lot of people just for costs
in particular, they're not filming on film, they're actually filming
in in these different digital formats.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
And so he went as I guess we would call
old school. And he is a film student.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
He's a student of the craft, and so his intentionality
to shoot on on four different aspect ratios and including
also we'll talk visuals.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
We also talk about the sound.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
We have to talk about the way in which he
incorporated the Dolby sound and all these other elements. And
for those people like myself who were just film nerds,
we just want to go see it in the best
like tell me I want the filmmaker, tell me how
to go enjoy it, Like tell me when I need
what I need to wear?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Do I need to eat first? Do I need to
come fasted?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Because it's about to be a whole revolutionary experience in
the theater, and Ryan and his team are are the
best to do it. And this film in particular is
one of the few films that we're seeing now where
it's the cinematography, it's the filmmaking process that is.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
It's just iconic.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
When we think about storytelling, and I think, like there
are people talking online like there's too many elements to
this story.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
It's gonna be it's gonna.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Be a hodgepodge, And I was like, maybe what you
like is basic, but I want flavors on my plate.
And so I already knew then that I was gonna
have to go in. It was me and my mom.
I said, we're going if you have to close your
eyes grow squeeze them shut because she doesn't like scary movies.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I was like, but we're going to support.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
We were super excited, And what sold me, like you said,
was when he talked about those aspect ratios.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
There was a Kodak click.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Going around on social where he was talking about that,
and I said, Oh, this is somebody who's in their bag.
Like when I see Beyonce rehearsing that, I'm like, Oh,
we really have to we really have to lock in
and be ready for this album. Like so when you
see clips like that, it felt like the equivalent of
that somebody really in their craft.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
You shot the film using two different camera systems. One
proprietary to Panavision is called Ultra Panavision seventy, used on
films like Like Being Her and most recently The Hateful Eight.
But another format we use is Imax Imax film cameras.
Those cameras spin the film in a horizontal fashion, and
they spent it using fifteen perse per front.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Now I got there and I felt like, I know,
I said, I could have all those flavors, but there
were new When I think about my brain taste buds,
there were new taste buds being activated. There were so
many symbols and visual motifs and things that reminded me
of growing up in the South and like just stuff
that like even him when they talked about a Wooden Nickel,
(08:35):
it's just I could hear my grandma saying, don't let
nobody tell you a Wooden Nickel. And I was like,
I felt like I was being transported to my real
life in the back of my head to the story
they were telling. And I'm curious about some of those
symbols and sometimes symbolism and language. What messages do you
think Ryan Coogler was trying to convey with the storytelling here,
Oh is a kid.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
That's so good because one of the things that I
don't know if many people, your audience and others are
aware that Ryan is truly a multifaceted creative, So he's
not just a director, but he's also the writer, and
he writes. He wrote Fruit Bale Station, he wrote Black Panther,
he wrote Creed, he wrote Centers, and he only directs
(09:19):
projects stories that he writes. A lot of times we
can even go back to someone like a Spike Lee,
who also was you know, kind of really was at
the forefront of directors being these multi creatives in this space.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I think Tyler Perry takes it.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Too far, but we're not talking about that today, because
it's important to have multiple voices in your creative like room,
and Ryan does that really, really well. And so whenever
he dives into a script, he's going to do all
of the references and research required to make sure that
(10:00):
it's authentic.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
And this is everything.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
And so when people which I do encourage to go
back and watch some of his earlier works, all of
them with Michael B. Jordan, which I also love that relationship.
They're definitely a craftsman and their muse, their brothers, their
creative collaborators in all of these works. But visually, Ryan
(10:24):
wanted to bring a I like to look at it
kind of like a big pot of gumbo mm. And there's,
as you mentioned, sort of like these brain these visual
taste buds. So we are not only going to get
the stunning visuals from the cinematography and the choices again
to shoot on ultra panavisions, seventy millimeter Imax, all these
(10:45):
other things, but the film draws these visual inspiration from
you might have seen and for people like myself who
who grew up watching shows like Good Times, Ernie Barnes,
the Sugarshack, and it's a painting yes, yes, and the
elements in centers, in particular when it's spun all around music.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's such a great point and I feel like there's
a lot of motifs.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Is that the right word throughout the film?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Can you talk about some of those through lines that
you see throughout?
Speaker 5 (11:21):
Right?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Music is a through line throughout, Religion is a through
line throughout. Then we also obviously have I call this
historical horror, so I know, like your mom might have
been framed. People are like, why don't really do horror films?
And I was like, well, it's historical horror. People are like,
well what is historical horror? And I was like, oh, well,
did you ever see? And then I start with listening,
you know, I was like, did you ever see The Watchmen,
(11:42):
for example, Or did you ever watch with Regina King
that was on HBO Unfortunately on it got one season?
Or did you ever see the television Underground? Yeah, Misha
Green directed Underground. So like, when you really look at
these contexts or these stories have historical accuracies, right, that's
what are called historical horror, They have historical accuracies.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
There was a moment we had a conversation in in
centers about the klu Klux Klan.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
There were all of these different elements. There were these
conversations that talked about the different Asian communities within the
Mississippi Delta, and people were like, wait a minute, how
are you going to have shop owners who like own
businesses across the street and like understanding segregation and why
that was super important. So all of these visuals, but
they came together in this melting pot, and the best
way I can describe that is like a big pot
(12:25):
of gumbo. There's all of these elements there that really
bring about this beautiful story about these two twin brothers
who are coming back to their hometown after spending a
considerable amount of time in the North in Chicago, working
learning from we'll just say different communities, and they've then
(12:48):
decided to bring that back home and open up a
juke jump and the film is based on and the
story kind of starts from smoke and Stack coming back
home and buying this bill on this property and then
opening up for one night spoiler alert or not for
one night only, and then everything ensues.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Can we take a small step back before we move
forward and just explain to some folks, because I feel
like some of the terminology some people don't understand in media.
What you know a writer, a director, a producer, a DP, like,
who are these people and what their roles are? Can
you go through a few of the ones that are
important when creating something like this?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Absolutely, And so it's really important when we think of
any kind of creative project, right, So most of us
are engaged with television, film, video, etc. And what you
see what comes kind of in this final package. You
would have no idea that in many instances anywhere between
five to fifty people contributed to what we are watching.
(14:07):
Starting even from the top. You're gonna have your executive producers, right,
You're gonna have people that are really responsible in particular
for finding funding and financing right, and those are the
ones who are going to make sure that not only
there are the resources to hire and pay everyone, but
also to contribute to post production all these other elements.
So you have your EPs, and then you have a
(14:28):
number of other producers. They deal with logistics. So when
you're thinking of who's gonna staff this project, who's gonna
fill out the call sheet? What, you're gonna have your
director someone who comes and in particular, the best way
to describe them is they control the film's artistic and
dramatic vision. They visualize the screenplay. So you have the
writers who write the story and many times and fortunately
(14:49):
if it's a if it's a really strong writing room,
we're gonna have multiple voices in there coming together. Writing
room tim to be anywhere between. Again, one not so
great to like ten people engaged in telling the story,
but for films you would have one, maybe two writers.
And Ryan writes all of his work, right, so he's
going to be the person writing the script, creating all
(15:09):
of the different characters, doing a lot of the historical
references and research and making sure everything that is accurate
as he wants. And then he's also the person that
brings that creative vision to the film. And then you
have one of my favorite roles, which is the director
of photographer also known as the DP, also known as
a cinematographer, and they were over responsible for overseeing all
the aspects of the camera work and that includes also
(15:31):
some lighting. But they'll have a team which you call
your grips and your gaffers, and those are individuals that
are going to be making sure that all the lighting
and in centers. That was really important the lighting techniques
that they use. Again because the majority of the film
was actually was filmed quote unquote at night right like
again no spoiler alert, but it takes place really from
dust till dawn. That's the bulk of the story, and
(15:54):
so filming in dark light and all these spaces.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Really really important.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Camera operator, you're gonna assist directors at getting their location managers.
Your first AD one of the most essential positions on
the crew. They track the daily progress of the filming schedule.
They prepare call sheets. Your second AD assistant director. They're
going to help because Centers also had a large they
had a large cast. Yeah, so your second AD is
really going to be a person helping to control and
(16:20):
help to make sure people know where they're supposed to
be when they're supposed to be Art directors. And then
of course one of my favorite also the costume designers. Yeah,
so Ruth got to give a shout out to Ruth Carter.
If you don't know her, she's also iconic. She works
with Ryan pretty I won't say exclusively, but she is
also one of his creative muses and they come together
and they create everything again, from Black Panther all the
(16:43):
way all the way up through Centers. Having that historical
accuracy is there so lots of different roles, but though
we're probably the main essential ones, I.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Think in a lot of ways in the storytelling, Centers
did some things differently. So you've mentioned it being a
historical horror, and when I think about historical horror, think
about like Django Unchain, even though it's not technically a
horror movie, but I think about.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Pieces like that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I think about Rosewood, which was probably drama, it still
felt like horror to me, and that was based on
a true story, Yes, based on a true story. And
so I think I consider these things and how these
communities are represented. Now, what I was excited to see
is typically there's this saying that in or trope that
like in horror movies, black people are going to they
kill the black people off. First, we didn't have that
(17:27):
in Centers, but we did see I felt like some
women sacrificing themselves or being sacrificed. And there is a
critic that I follow Brooke Obie and she graduated from Hampton.
I know her, she was in the same class as me.
And Brooke has talked about the representation of women, particularly
how Annie showed up in the movie and how she
protected Smoke but not herself. You have a book that's
(17:50):
the Evolution of Black Women in Television Mammys, Matriarchs and Mistresses,
and you explore how Black women have been represented in
television over time. And I'm thinking about how we see
Annie being represented. I'm curious about how you feel is
Sinners pushing the envelope for Black women characters.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
That is such a great question and it's so important
because I for many people who might not even know
who the actresses are who play Annie and Pearlene, and
so Wenumi Musoka, who is an absolute icon in her
own right, Jamie Lawson plays Pearline, and so these two
women set up as yes, love interests and kind of
(18:30):
juxtaposed to one another. But I actually I love Annie's character.
I love everything about her. I love her her use
of which again was the historical references, but her use
of African and Creole spirituality. I will not use the
term witchcraft because it's not accurate. It is spirituality. And
(18:54):
we see the necklace, the pouch that she gave him,
Michael B. Jordan, and how when he asked her, you
can do all this all year, he calls it magic,
all of your magic.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Why couldn't you save our baby?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
And she tells him in this really tender, beautiful moment,
not only like I wasn't supposed to.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
I couldn't. It wasn't time.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
And then sort of fast forward to at a certain
scene in the film where you literally see the power
of that pouch in a moment where he's about to
be he's about to he's getting attacked and you don't
know is he going to be killed, and you see.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
It reverberates off of his body.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
And I thought that was such a beautiful way to
have again these larger conversations around the power of women
and the power of women as spiritual in the spiritual
and physical realm, and I thought Annie's character played that
balance so unbelievably well.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
She was more in tune.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
She understood elements in the film, in the storyline in
particular as it related to vampires of what to do,
she had an under she just had a further understanding
because of her spiritual acumen that she was able to
identify things and different sort of storylines in the film,
which I thought was just really really powerful in terms
of representation, just having Annie's character and Mary's character be
(20:29):
sort of also juxtaposed and Haley Sandfield who plays Mary,
and so one of the things I also love about
Ryan and all of his casting is that he very
intentionally puts black actors and actresses, in particular actresses and
dark skinned black actresses at the forefront end in major
roles in a way that you just don't see in
other places. So that's where I feel like the representation
(20:51):
of black women and in particular, very specifically in Ryan
Cooliger's work defies stereotypes. He is intentional about who he cast,
He's intentional about the roles and connections. I could even
go back to Lo Pizza Yango in Black Panther, right
the intentionality to have this gorgeous, beautiful, quote unquote, dark
skinned black woman playing the objects of love, playing love interests.
(21:15):
They're not just the buddy best friend. These are women
to be desired and to be loved and to be
cherished and to be protected in a way that we
don't often see in other stories. And Ryan is intentional
about that. And I believe that also comes from Ryan
being married to a black woman. There are so many
other things that come out in his personal life that
(21:37):
I feel comes in his artistry, in his ability to
write roles that ultimately want to protect black women, and
so I personally am always so pleasantly surprised to see
what he's going to bring into the visual and representation
(21:58):
conversation as a relatable women.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I love that point because Hailey Steinfeld's character and Annie's character,
I feel like in another movie it would have been
switched absolutely. In the movie She's meant to be white passing,
she would have been the oh my goodness, this is
the darling, this is the woman that you know is
holding you down that and then they would have then
(22:22):
a darker skinned black woman might have been the one
that was kind of like on the evil side, you
know what I mean. So it was so beautiful to
see and you talking us through that. It really shows
that it's an intentional thing from Ryan Coogler's point of view,
and such a powerful message to sin and just even
including their body types. Absolutely like the desirability of a
(22:45):
woman that is plus sized.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
US size, sexual desirable.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
And that's the part that hit me so frequently, because
when you talk about someone like a Michael B. Jordan
just as a character, we've all seen him. I remember
him on the wire like I've watched his career for
over twenty years, and so to see the evolution of
him also to see the characters and the roles in
which he chooses, because now he's at the point he
gets to choose, of course, and when he works with Ryan,
(23:12):
I believe that they bring the best out of each
other in a way that only these types of directing, acting,
inventing characters, developing storylines, finding the depth in the richness
and so Ryan's way of again representing black women and
(23:35):
whether they be mothers. I can go back to Creed
with Felicia Rashad, that's one of my other favorite Like
I love her roles and to even Tessa Thompson and
some other even like her, the intentionality of her being
hearing impaired, and then when they have their daughter, and
then her being hearing right, and so all of these
little nuances, This inclusion of the depth of the diversity
(23:57):
in a time in which it's honestly under it is
really refreshing to see in these creative spaces. So I
think this is really important right when we see these
these roles in these characters. And I will just say
very very quickly, because I think it's super important. Autumn
Gerald is a cinematographer for Sinners, and she is a powerhouse,
(24:18):
but it's also historic for her to be a woman,
a woman of color, to film on this seventy millimeter imax.
I mean we're talking it's heavy, Like I don't know
if you all, if your audience or if you all
have visual like we're talking, you know this like picking
up and holding as you're filming, and of course there's
all these different mounts and things. But I mean, you're
talking a couple hundred pounds. This is not light work
(24:40):
by any means what she was able to do. Autumn,
and she's worked with Ryan before, but she's just She's
also got to give that props to Ryan intentionally, again,
having a woman of color be the cinematographer, that's intentional.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I want to go back to what you were saying about,
like historical horror.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I think that horror films that.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Use the plight of black folks, how the black existence
can be somewhat of a horror film. I mean, we
saw that with get Out, we see that with Sinners.
Can you talk about how Sinners is contributing to how
black history is being told? And like, twenty years from now,
(25:36):
forty years from now, fifty years from now, how do
you think that this will stand the test of time
and how do you think people will feel about it
in the future.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Well, one, I think we should point out that in
twenty five years Ryan owns this film and that is
huge and people are like, well, why is this even
a big deal? It's a big deal because that's not
what normally happens. Ryan is not the first director to
be able to own his films outright, and that he
isn't the first director to get some of what he deserved.
I won't even say required, but like he deserved a
(26:07):
number of a perks.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
He's over a billion.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Dollars at the box office in his career, and so
quite frankly, he should be able to get what he wants.
And he wanted to own this film in twenty five years,
and I think that's really really important, and he talks
about that quite openly, and the reason for because this
film is so personal to him because of the historical reference.
It is set in a time that I think most
(26:32):
audiences should or couldn't understand. But we're talking during some
of the most brutal times for black people in the
South and during the reconstruction period. And so this isn't
to give your audience any sort of like American history lesson,
but I think it is important to note that sort
of after the Civil War, where the US government gave
(26:54):
reparations to white slave owners, that's also like fact check
that everyone, because that's that's a fact, gave them reparations,
and then black folks had to not only make away,
they never got the forty acres and a mule that
were promised, and they really had to build communities from nothing.
(27:16):
They had to build communities. And when I say communities,
that truly mean they had to build schools, They had
to build churches, houses of worship, They had to build
all of the elements, whether it be a post office,
the dentist, a doctor's office. Because we're in the time
of deep segregation. So all though black people in the
US at the time were quote unquote not they were
(27:36):
no longer enslaved, they by no means were free.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
And there were all of.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
These policies, all of these laws that restricted what black
people could own, where they could go physically like movement
as they can move around. And so this film is
set in a time and in a part of this
country that was some of the most hostile to black people.
So that's partially when you see Michael B. Jordan as
small can stack. These twins who are coming back with
(28:03):
money with they had risen out of a certain we'll
just say socioeconomic class at the time, and to do
that they had to go north. Yeah, they couldn't do
that unfortunately in their home community and their home state
of Mississippi. They had to go up north, and they
were successful and said endeavors and then they came back home.
But their reference and why I think this movie is
(28:25):
going to be timeless is because Ryan as a student
of history and a student of accuracy as a filmmaker,
intentionally made it so that this is not a Disney movie,
Like this is not a movie where where we get
to play in fantasy and dare I say.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Make believe and all these things.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
People are like, well, obviously vampires are not real, and yes,
but there is a symbolism too with the vampires and
what they wanted to do, right, and so there's all
of these sort of larger conversations, but in terms of
its historical relevance, it's so unbelievable, like it's just accurate,
and even down to the way in which the characters,
(29:03):
whether it be their accents. People were so shocked where
they were like, wait a second, why are the Asian
actually white? They all have like these deep Southern accents,
and like it's true, and who were the business owners
and the fact that they showed that scene where they
showed that Dolly where you know, the daughter walks across
the street to the other store to tell the mom, hey,
so and so it's back.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
They want you to do.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
X, Y and Z right and so and they're across
the street and it's because black people had to say
on one side of the street. White people don't say
other and the understanding of segregation and how it impacted
and why when Mary even came over, everybody was like,
who is this, Like, you ain't supposed to be here.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
You're gonna get us in trouble. In trouble, you were
going to bring the clan.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I think it's really important the way, and I was
hoping for them to come back around.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
But the chick Taw, we can't stop.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
We have to talk about the Native American and that
reference in the very beginning, and if you missed it,
I'm sorry for you.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Please go back and watch it again.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
But the reference and and that understanding and how the
Chicktaw when they came in at the very beginning, and
they were literally they were trying to save the couple,
the white couple from the vampire. They're like, hey, we
know somebody just rolled up to your house. That is
not who you think he is.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Let me you know.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
But then again, I'm gonna let you have that, right.
He was like, okay, I tried, and then they dipped right.
They were like, the sun is going down and we
have to keep moving right.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Ryan Coogler's use of the Choctaw tribe was so intentional,
and Zaki and I have been reading a lot of
thing pieces and analysis on that particular scene, and we
found some interesting things. One, the chalk Taw people have
a strong history with music to tell stories, and so
it's possible that Remick Remick is the vampire in the
movie that is also Irish, that Remick was drawn to
(30:45):
the chalk Taw people because of that, yes, But then
also the Choctaw tribe has a unique history with Irish people,
where way back in the day, back at eighteen forty seven,
they sent one hundred and seventy dollars to Ireland, so
that was that's about five thousand dollars today to help
starving families during the Great Potato Famine in Ireland. So
(31:06):
it feels like all of these things are meant to
be a backdrop to that scene. So maybe Remick was
drawn to the music and because of their spirituality and
their strong like Annie like how we were saying, Annie
has strong spirituality, so she was able to see that
they were vampires. Maybe that's what happened, and so they
were able to drive them out, tell them get out
(31:26):
of here, and knew okay, the sun's going down.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
We got to get out of here. Good luck to y'all.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So good that give it to me in reverse. I'm
ready for the prequel. I'm ready for the preson.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
We need a prequel.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
There's no shortage of material, there's no shortage of story
in all these things that were shared. And you know,
one of the things, I think you gave us a
little history lesson. But I think for people who are
not steeped in Black American history, who don't have that experience,
who don't have that as part of their culture, right
there are layers to this film that you are missing.
(32:00):
Same thing if you are not trained in.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Some visual literacy.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
For some of the long lines, you know, like I
think you said, like the Dolly's shot across connecting but
also showing the difference. I saw a lot of people
talking about just how some of the scenes were framed.
What do you think or what do you recommend people consume,
whether it's reading, listening, watching, to help them evaluate centers
(32:25):
more critically and closely, or to expand their horizon their
storytelling world.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
What I will say is is a really beautiful time
right now, and just film and cultural studies, but in
particular and very specifically of course black film and cultural studies.
There are so many amazing authors out there who are
writing and sharing, and so if you're just like, okay,
(32:53):
I am really interested in any of these elements in
any of this work. My Sister the Serial is one
of my favorite books on Braithway. I love that book
for everything that it teaches and shares with us about horror.
I think it's also really interesting because, as I said,
I really appreciate and this is television, so it's not
(33:16):
necessarily film, but The Watchman does a really phenomenal job.
And one of the shows that I wish would have
had more time to really explore and galvanize my the
ones love Craft Country for those who might remember Lovecraft
Country also on HBO. Really said that only got one season,
but I thought that was I mean, such a phenomenal film.
Speaker 5 (33:38):
Again, love Craft Country Underground.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Both of those are together by Misha Green, as I
shared before, and she's a show writer. She's a screenwriter, director, producer,
but she really has it kind of on lock. So
people who are like, oh, I want to see more
of this, go check out those two.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
I am editing have edited.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
It'll be out it's called Sacred Sisterhoods, a Celebration of
Black Women's Friendships on television and in film. It'll be
out October of twenty and twenty five, and I'm so grateful.
There's fourteen other sas that contributed to this work and
black women, black scholars, and we dive into it. And
one of the things that I love about even Ryan's work,
and as I mentioned before, about Wunumi and Jamie as
(34:22):
Annie and Perline, these black women and sort of their relationships.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
So we write about that. We write about the way.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
In which black women's relationships have evolved and how they're celebrated.
And so for people who are like really interested, I'm like,
now is the time there is so much content available
and so whether it be like who you're reading, what
you're reading. BURRETTA Smith Schamad she's down at Emory University
in Atlanta. She's one of the just absolutely amazing television
(34:53):
and film scholars that is really going to break down
some of these elements.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
Herman Gray is another one.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Donald, if you really want to go back, Donald Bogol
is one of the goats in terms of looking at
the way in which black representation on television and film, and.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
He's going to give you everything.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
He's going to take you all the way back to
Menstrol and he's going to bring you all the way
up to the present.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
And these are just the work is out there. It's
such a rich time.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
I'm excited. I know.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I tell t T all the time about one of
my favorite authors, who I feel like is super slept On.
When I was watching Sinners, when I left, I was like, Oh,
I'm ready for one of her books to have a movie.
But she's done some stuff, and I think Jordan Peele
has talked to her about some things before. Tanana Rivdoo
who Yes, I love Yes, And I was like, this
(35:40):
feels right up that Alley. I was too young to
be reading those books. They were scary, but I love them.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
And it really felt it felt good.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
If you were using Sinners in your classroom, what themes
or scenes would you build a lesson around and why?
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Oh, well, first of all, I am going to be
using Sinners in my class. I'm rewriting. I have a
class that I teach every fall. It's called Race and
Representation in the Media. And I have a whole section
and I break it down because it's obviously not just
about black folks. But I start with Isabelle Wilkerson's cast,
and then I moved through when I go through Nicole
(36:20):
Hannah Jones sixteen nineteen project and all those things, but
with Sinners and the way I'm reworking it, the way
in which they use music in Cinners, and the scene
where you have the musical and visual montage in the
juke joint where the nephew is playing and you see
(36:46):
everything from African dance to hip hop.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
It actually broadens.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
It's not just black music and you have Asian like
it's just a beautiful and I need to watch it
and time it again because I was so mesmerized the
first time. I want to say, this scene might have
been two and a half minutes and I could have
experienced it for two and a half hours.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
Yes, and it was the way it was.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
There's no dialogue in the scene, and that to me
is what is so powerful. And then we started this
conversation talking about visuals, and we start we talk about
the cinematography. We talked about the film format that it
was shot on, but that scene in particular, and again
no but also spoiler alert, it thematically sets up also
(37:38):
what's about to come right, And so I remember while
I'm sitting in the theater watching, I was like, I'm
smiling my like her face hurts from smiling so much,
and I felt it. Knowing as a storyteller, I was like, oh,
it's something about to pop off. I everby too happy,
like the bars popping, the fish fry is hot. I
(38:00):
was like, in somebody about to die, I said, I know,
in about thirty seconds it's about to get lit, and
against spoiler alert, it did. But that scene right there
is the one that I will play again and again.
And I also want to point out which I think
is really interesting because there was there's all of this
black soul, hip hop and R and B and obviously
(38:23):
blues and jazz, but then the vampires also play music.
And as someone who I won't say that the vampire
story i've seen True Blood, I'm sort of aware of
the musing. I understand the whole concept that they have
to be invited in, and I think that the use
(38:44):
of music, and so I gain not that scene in particular,
but I also loved how the vampires and I think
there was like Irish folklore music being played. Also and
I was like, it felt random air quotes, because we
know nothing is random with Ryan.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Everything is intentional.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
But I do love even that intentionality of bringing in
and having them play on what was it a banjo?
Speaker 5 (39:05):
If I'm not mistaken, he's like strumming. It was awesome.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Ryan is really big on details and leaving things stories
lines just a little bit open, right. It's almost like
he doesn't know if he wants, Like I might want
to come back and do another one.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
I might want to do a sequel, maybe this is
a trilogy. We don't know.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
But the best part of Ryan is you don't know, right,
and so things are kind of left to let your
imagination kind of run free in a way that I
think as a creative is really amazing. But it's that
montage I mentioned, is it's surreal. It's a celebration of
black culture.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I think a lot of people when we go to
the movies, we just see it as entertainment. But it
is art first and foremost. And I think watching Centers
through an artful lens rather than an entertainment lens, like
it's entertaining, but the art is just real, really.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Beautiful, absolutely, And I think like when I look at
how music, how culture. I think of how blues was
used in the film as the language of resistance. Right,
Sammy was resisting his father's wishes for his life, and
not necessarily defiance of him, but it would be defying
(40:25):
his own self and passions if he did not follow
through with those dreams. The transcenential power of music, the
cultural elements of cultural appropriation and legacy, music as this
like vessel for storytelling. And then of course just how
he just again that going back to that analogy of
that pot of gumbo, just the blending of drunkers and
(40:46):
cultures and all of these different things, and it leaves you.
I left the theater feeling not even satisfied. Like we've
all gone to a film or seen something and you're like,
well that was a waste of time and money, Like
I could have been doing anything else, but I left
trying to figure out when I could go see it again.
(41:08):
He is one of our great storytellers of our generation.
He's one of our great filmmakers. I think most people now,
if you didn't know, I knew what fruit Bale station.
As I mentioned that this is someone who everything that
he produces everything, He writes everything he directs.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I want to see, Amani, thank you so much for
being here, Like we could have talked all day long. Yes, absolutely,
And after this conversation now I know for for a
fact that I need to go back and see the
movie again. And it really just makes me think about
what an amazing time it is to be able to
(41:43):
witness the genius of somebody like Ryan Cookler and other
filmmakers just like him who are doing interesting storytelling, and
to have access. Sometimes I'm like the Internet is crazy,
but other times I'm so.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Glad we have access to all these stories.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
You know, I know, I know, and we could use
that to apply to so many aspects of our lives
in all of the artistic ways that we express ourselves.
Using that high level attention to detail, being a student
of your craft. It's it's just a beautiful thing to see.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
And that's really what we're trying to do here Dope LPs.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Like we are not trying to position ourselves as all knowing,
because we know that the fun is in the learning.
So I think continuing to learn is exactly what we're
trying to do with Dope LAPS. But we're also trying
to spread the love and the possibility for the next
generation that wants to come along after us and become
the next science storytellers. Absolutely, and I think that there
are some really great programs out there right now for
(42:36):
young people to you know, hone in on those skills,
learn how to tell stories and scientific stories and just
storytelling in general, because that is how we connect to folks.
So if you are interested or know a six through
twelfth grader who might be interested in scientific storytelling, check
out the Cycom Summer Camp. Program is all online. It's
(42:59):
four weeks and you can get more info at sycom,
launchpad dot com. Dope Labs is sponsoring this program, so
there are scholarships available because we're proud sponsors. We are
proud sponsors, so please please please go check that out,
send it to anyone that you know with somebody that's
in the grade six through twelve.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
They will not regret it.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
If you have a child that's looking for inspiration, this
is where it's at. We wouldn't sponsor it if we
didn't believe in it one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
You can find us on x and Instagram at Dope Labs.
Podcast TT is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore,
t s h O and you can find Takiya at
z said so.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Dope Labs is a production of Leimanada Media.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate
producer is Issara Sives. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited
and mixed by James Barber. Lamanada Media is. Vice President
of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from
iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvio.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Marketing lead is Alison Kanter.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Original music composed and produced by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex
sudi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab
is executive produced by us T T Show Dia and
Kia Wattley.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.