August 28, 2024 • 32 mins
What happens when a family's active, rural life is turned upside down by a debilitating illness? In today's episode, we sit down with David Libby to hear his family's extraordinary story as they confronted the harsh realities of Lyme disease. David recounts the extreme symptoms his wife and daughters endured, from severe pain to seizures and mental health battles, bringing forth thought-provoking questions about faith, suffering, and resilience. Amid their trials, David found himself grappling with Ernst Haeckel's disteleological argument and seeking solace in the biblical narrative of suffering.
Can suffering be part of a divine plan? We discuss the theological and philosophical perspectives that helped David navigate his family's ordeal. Drawing from the story of the man born blind in the Gospel of John, we explore how afflictions may serve a higher purpose, potentially glorifying God. The conversation further examines the interplay between science and faith, asserting that true science often aligns with biblical principles. David's testimony underscores the profound purpose and opportunities to glorify God that can emerge even through the toughest challenges.
Lastly, we introduce David Libby's book, "A Different World," a detailed chronicle of his family's battle with Lyme disease and the insights they gained along the way. We guide you on how to find the book on Amazon, making it easy for our listeners to dive deeper into David's moving journey. David expresses his heartfelt gratitude for the platform to share his story, and we extend our thanks to our devoted audience for their unwavering support. Tune in for a deeply moving episode that explores the intersections of faith, reason, and the raw realities of coping with illness.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorseyRush Show.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
His name is David Libby.
Him and his wife Lisa raisedtheir two daughters, kayla and
Bethany, in Royal Maine andrural Ming.
(00:21):
They hunted, fished and foragedfor wild edible plants, went
camping in remote andundiscovered places, grew
gardens, raised livestock andhomesteading.
Mom and David with aself-employed logger, and David
(00:42):
were self-employed.
As an unintended consequence ofthis lifestyle, they were
bitten by dozens of ticks.
About the time their girls werein their mid-teens, the whole
family had become desperatelyill with Lyme disease, along
(01:03):
with a host of complications.
The whole family had becomedesperately ill with Lyme
disease, along with a host ofcomplications.
For years he served in thechurch, first as a deacon and
then as an elder.
David had been a longself-taught student of theology
and philosophy.
He had learned all the correctanswers to some of the most
(01:26):
difficult questions and can holdhis own as a Christian
apologist and theologian.
When his family's health fellapart, he discovered something
that the books do not teach thatthere is a sharp disconnect
(01:46):
between an encyclopedia of thatknowledge I'm sorry, of
encyclopedic knowledge and anapplication of the knowledge in
the muddy and bloody trenches.
It is there that this book wasconceived.
David, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, thank you for having me, Dorsey.
I'm very glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Absolutely.
Now tell us a little bit aboutyourself and you know what made
you write this book.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, I wrote the book because of the experience
we had with this.
You know, very serious illnessand having to grapple with the
tough questions and I thoughtthat perhaps you know the
conclusions that I'd come tomight be helpful for other
people who are also suffering.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
But you know, suffering was very difficult for
a very long time and it reallyforced me to you know kind of
and what you you know what youdealt with.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, okay.
So the physical struggles werevery serious.
Illness that included, you know, the girls feeling sick all the
time, but also severe pain allthroughout their bodies.
My wife described the pain asfeeling like there were shards
of broken glass all toward herbody.
They were debilitated at times,you know, couldn't walk at
times.
Severe seizures, even mentalhealth problems, psychotic
episodes and a whole lot ofother stuff.
So you know, that's kind ofgives a little sketch of the
(03:35):
physical.
You know physiological problems.
But then there are thephilosophical problems and
theological problems.
And those would be, you know,questions like if there is a God
who is good and all-powerful,then couldn't he stop this?
And why are these kinds ofthings happening and why is
there suffering in this world?
(03:55):
And I start out the book bygrappling with a question that
some of the atheists from the19th century grappled with.
Ernst Haeckel, a contemporaryof Charles Darwin's, coined what
he called the disteleologicalargument.
The teleological argumentargues that the world appears to
(04:18):
be designed, therefore it musthave a designer, right, he said.
Well, if that's true, then thedesigner must not be the God of
the Bible, because the God ofthe Bible doesn't make mistakes.
And look at the world it's fullof mistakes.
So the book kind of startsthere.
How do we grapple with thatquestion, how do we answer that
question?
And then it moves on from there.
Or actually it starts outtelling my family's story, but
once I get into the section, youknow, third chapter, that's
(04:40):
where it begins with Heckel'squestion.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Now, all those issues that you described a little
while ago.
All that came from Lyme disease.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Lyme disease was kind of the trigger for a whole lot
of problems, but there wereother complications as well, and
a big piece of the puzzle was agenetic mutation that my wife
and both daughters have but Idon't have, which is why it was
very easy for me to treat thedisease and very difficult for
them.
What this mutation does is itkills the body's ability to deal
(05:14):
with toxins, and so they weresuffering not only from Lyme
disease, from what the Borreliaspirochetes do to the body, but
also they were suffering fromall the toxins that we breathe
in and that are in our food andthat are on our clothing,
because the Lyme had kind ofhelped shut down the body's
ability to deal with thesetoxins and to process them.
(05:34):
So it was complicated.
It was complicated and veryhard to treat and it took a lot
of years and a lot of money.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Right, oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And I know that experience as well.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
How did you come to the answer of you know?
Is there a God and why wouldGod allow you guys to go through
that?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
So initially I guess therewould be several parts to the
answer that I would give.
The first part of the answerwould be that Ernst Haeckel with
his teleological argument andhe actually borrowed it from
David Hume a century earlierErnst Haeckel with his
teleological argument, and heactually borrowed it from David
(06:27):
Hume a century earlier.
But his argument really is kindof a foolish one, because God
has promised us that there wouldbe trouble in this world.
You know, we read in Genesis 3that God has cursed his creation
because of human rebellion,because of sin, and as a result
there is pain and sufferingbecause of God's curse.
So Ernst Haeckel's argumentreally kind of goes like this
(06:54):
Don't things like sufferingprove that there is no God?
Well, no, they don't prove thatat all, because God told us
that there would be suffering.
God ordained that there wouldbe.
So, for example, imagine Evehaving just given birth to her
first child and saying wow, youknow that really hurt.
That must prove there is no God.
Well, no, god told her thatyou're going to have pain in
childbirth.
So it doesn't disprove God atall.
(07:15):
In fact it's part of the design.
But then of course that doesn'tanswer all of our questions.
You know God could take ourtrials away.
Why didn't he ordain a realitywhere there was no fall into sin
?
And you know we can always pushback against those answers, but
I think that there are goodanswers in Scripture.
God ordained the reality thatwe have for his glory.
(07:37):
God is glorified in a displayof his justice and you know
where would we have an occasionfor that display if there were
no sin?
And he's glorified in thedisplay of his justice.
And you know where would wehave an occasion for that
display if there were no sin?
And he's glorified in thedisplay of his mercy and grace.
If there were no need forredemption, we wouldn't have
this.
You know, beautiful display ofmercy and grace and a fall into
sin and suffering gives God theoccasion to display his love in
(08:01):
profound and amazing ways, youknow, in the atonement and in
redemption.
But you know we can still pushback against those answers as
well.
But the end of the line answer,I believe, is found in the end
of the book of Job and in Romans9, verse 20 and elsewhere, and
that answer would be he is Godand I'm not.
You know, at some point I needto be contented with an
(08:22):
acceptance of what is.
This is the reality that he hasordained, even if I don't
understand why, even if all thewhy questions aren't answered.
And also, by the way, scripturegives us good answers to a lot
of our why questions not all thewhy questions, but a lot of
them.
We're told in Scripture thatwe're sanctified through trials
(08:43):
and afflictions.
Scripture uses the analogy of afuller's soap, you know,
scrubbing off all the you knowpollution of sin.
But also the analogy of arefiner's fire.
You know, the silver and thegold are refined in the fire,
and so it's in the fires ofaffliction that we find this
sanctification and this refining.
And, you know, it seems to methat people who really truly do
(09:03):
love the Lord Jesus are drawncloser to him in times of trial.
So there are good answers inScripture, even if all the
answers aren't given.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Right.
What would you say to peoplewho are going through trials and
going through difficulties, butthey're questioning God?
They're questioning God of youknow why would you allow this to
happen?
You know they may even be likeyou know God.
You know you told me that, yes,there would be trials, but you
(09:35):
didn't tell me how bad thesetrials would be.
You know, so I'm not going to.
You know, I'm trying to trustin you, but the doctors are
telling me X, y, z.
What would you say to thosepeople?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a very good question, avery important question, and
it's not all hypothetical, is it?
Because those things really dohappen, they happen every day.
And what I would say to thatperson is I guess it depends on
why the person's asking.
If the person is doubting theexistence of God because of
these trials, I would say, well,no, the trials actually
(10:13):
demonstrate that there is a God.
Because he said there would betrials.
But if the person is believingin God but just asking why me?
Then I would say I would bevery, very sympathetic, first of
all because I've been theremyself and it's awful easy to
not be suffering and to spoutout the right answers, but when
(10:33):
you're really there it's hard.
So I would be very sympathetic,but I would tell the person to
focus on what you know to betrue.
What you know to be true iswhat is taught in God's Word.
For example, a beautifulexample is in 1 Corinthians
either 1 or 2 Corinthians, Iforget which chapters 4 and
(10:57):
chapter 5.
Beautiful discourse where Paultalks about trials and
afflictions and we're beatendown but not crushed, and so
forth, and he says that ourmomentary light affliction here
(11:18):
in this life is actuallycontributing to, or storing up
or making a contribution to aneternal weight of glory in the
life to come.
So I guess I would tell thatperson to try to focus on
getting through the next minute.
Don't look at the big picture,but just hang on.
And as you're hanging on, besure there is purpose behind it.
(11:39):
God is using these trials forhis glory and for your good.
It's hard to accept that in themidst of the trials, isn't it?
But God's word tells us that'strue, and so we can trust in
that.
Yeah, but it is hard.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And like you said you just said you know, think about
today or think about thismoment, don't worry about
tomorrow.
And that's exactly what theBible says.
Hey, bible says hey, you've gotenough trouble over calling
today, don't worry abouttomorrow, Don't worry about next
week or next month or severalmonths down the road.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's right.
Yeah, well said.
Yeah, you're exactly right.
My daughter, bethany, used tosay that you know, when she was
really, really suffering.
She used to say that one greatcomfort that she held on to was
the fact that every minute thatpasses is a minute that will
never have to pass again.
So you know, focus on gettingthrough the.
(12:40):
You know the next few steps.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know you mentioned it a little while ago,
but how is it that a God whocannot make mistakes has made a
world full of mistakes?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, right, right, yeah.
That's Ernst Haeckel'sdisteological argument, which he
borrowed from David Hume acentury earlier, and my answer
is by the way, there are a lotof answers that we find by
well-meaning Christians.
I don't mean to put them downin any way, but there are a lot
of answers that I don't believeare adequate answers.
I think the correct answer isthat he hasn't made any mistakes
(13:18):
.
The trials and afflictions arenot a mistake.
They're all part of hissovereign plan, woven together,
you know, for a divine purpose.
And if God were not a sovereignGod, that wouldn't be possible.
But he is a sovereign God, youknow.
God's word tells us that veryclearly.
So my answer would be there areno mistakes.
Pain and suffering aren'tmistakes.
They're all part of God'ssovereign plan aren't mistakes.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
They're all part of God's sovereign plan.
Amen, and I guess it goes alongwith what you just said For
people with disabilities.
We'll use that as an exampleFor people like myself who have
disabilities and we may talk tothem about God and we may tell
(14:03):
them about God and, you know,they may say well, you know, if
God is perfect and God doesn'tmake mistakes, you know, why
would he?
You know, why would he allow meto be born?
You know?
Would you say the same thing,that that obviously God doesn't
make mistakes.
But how would you expound onthat question to someone with a
(14:25):
disability?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, yeah, again, I would be very, very sympathetic,
of course, but I would say that, first of all, if the person
doesn't believe in God, then Iwould say your disability is no
evidence against his existence,because God's word tells us that
this is what we are to expectin this world.
You know what you're saying is,if there were a God, this
(14:49):
wouldn't happen.
But the God who exists, the onein the scripture, says that it
will happen.
So it's no evidence against hisexistence.
But if the person is someonewho believes in God, if the
person is a Christian, then Iwould say a person is someone
who believes in God.
If the person is a Christian,then I would say try to change
your perspective, change yourfocus.
You could even look at thedisability or the suffering as a
(15:16):
privilege, because it's givingyou the opportunity to glorify
God in ways that you wouldn'thave otherwise.
So think of it this way If lifeor God gives us circumstances
that would give the unbelievergrounds to shake his fist at God
and curse God, but instead welove God all the more and we
(15:39):
remain faithful to him, then wehave glorified him in ways that
we could not have done if wedidn't have the disability or if
we didn't have the suffering.
So I would say, first, you know, trust him in a sovereign God.
He's given us what is best forhis glory and for our good and,
you know, glorify him in it andknow that you have the occasion
(16:01):
to glorify him in ways that youwouldn't have if you didn't have
the disability.
I'm reminded of the man inScripture who, in the Gospel of
John I forget which chapter, butthe man who was born blind, and
the Lord Jesus healed him.
And the disciples asked was itbecause of this man's sin or was
it because of his parents' sinthat he was born blind?
And Jesus probably shocked themwith his answer.
(16:23):
He said neither.
He was born blind so that Godwould be glorified when I heal
him.
So you know, he suffered withblindness all that time so that
God would be glorified.
So if we have a self-centeredperspective, we might say, well,
that's not fair.
You know why, would you knowGod glorify himself, but he made
me suffer in the process.
But if we have a God-centeredfocus, then we say, wow, what a
(16:48):
privilege.
I was born blind so I couldglorify God.
What an awesome privilege.
So a different perspective, Ithink, would be in order.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah, well, for myself, you know, I've had 68
operations over my lifetime.
I grew up in the church andgave my life to Christ at the
age of 13.
Traveling around sharing mystory.
(17:23):
You know because that's youknow exactly what you're saying
that God allowed me to be bornthis way because I can glorify
him and travel around and sharemy story.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yes, right, and that actually right, that you
actually added to my answer andyou added to it beautifully,
because in your case you mightnot have had that opportunity to
share you know your story tospeak, to have had that
opportunity to share your storyto speak to as many people as
you do if it hadn't been for thedisability.
So he's opened up beautifulopportunities in this life as
well.
So, yeah, amen, brother, yeah,very well said.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's a lot of operations, brother 68
operations Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
That's a lot of operations, by the way, 68
operations Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Isn't a biblical worldview inconsistent with
science?
Not at all.
There are those who would liketo think that aren't there, but
no, not at all.
In fact, I would argue so.
I love philosophy and I'mactually about to launch another
book that I've finished writingthat gives a philosophical
(18:28):
defense of Christian faith.
It's not available yet butshould be available soon.
First of all, by pointing outthat real science, done well,
has never made a singlediscovery that contradicts a
biblical worldview in any way.
In fact I think there's a lotthat's been discovered that
(18:48):
supports a biblical worldview.
But I would answer in anotherway as well.
I would say that we're going toget into a little philosophy
here, a little heady stuff here,but that science depends upon
induction, and induction dependsupon things like the uniformity
of nature, trustworthiness ofthe senses and that sort of
thing.
We need to have a solidfoundation for empiricism and so
(19:12):
forth.
A lot of fancy-sounding lingothere.
But I would argue and I'm notgoing to get into details as to
why, unless you want me to, butI would argue that we can't have
any of those things without God.
Those things all depend uponGod.
So science would not be possible, I would argue, if there were
no God.
Without God, we don't have anyreason to believe in uniformity
of nature.
(19:32):
Well, with God we do, becauseGod tells us so.
Without God, we don't have anyreason to believe that
empiricism is a sound foundation.
Empiricism is simply thephilosophy that says that truth
is determined by what weexperience.
But how do we know ourexperience is even real?
Well, we know that because Godtells us so in his words.
(19:53):
So, with God, we have a solidfoundation for science.
Without God, we don't have asolid foundation for science,
and I love science, by the way.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
To add on to that, to the next question.
Isn't it a bit passé to stillhave faith in the age of reason?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Not at all.
I would answer that a coupledifferent ways.
Again.
We'll get into a littlephilosophy here.
First of all, I would arguethat every worldview position
depends upon faith on some level.
So nobody can say I don't havefaith.
Atheists love to talk about howthey don't have faith.
(20:39):
They have reason, but theirwhole worldview is built on a
foundation of faith.
Their whole worldview isnaturalistic.
They don't believe in anyspiritual realm.
They don't believe in God.
All they believe is God.
They believe in matter, youknow, matter in motion, matter
and energy, and there's nothingmore to reality than that.
But how do you know?
How do you know that there isnothing more to reality than
(21:02):
matter and energy and so forth?
And they can't know.
They can't know.
They have to accept that onblind faith.
So every worldview you know wecould talk about other
worldviews as well, but you knowI picked on the atheists, but
we could pick on anybody Everyworldview depends upon faith on
the foundational level.
So no, it's not passe to havefaith.
(21:24):
We all have faith, you know.
The question is what is theobject to have faith?
I would argue that reason couldnot exist without absolute
norms or laws or rules thatgovern right and wrong thinking
rationality.
So think of it this way it'simpossible for your thinking to
(21:48):
go off the rails unless thereactually are rails to go off
from.
And how do you justify theexistence of absolutes, absolute
laws of rationality without anabsolute lawgiver?
You know we could spend a lotmore time, you know, teasing
that out, but I would argue thatyou can't.
You can't justify absolutes ofrationality without an absolute
(22:11):
lawgiver.
And that absolute lawgiver hasto meet certain conditions,
certain preconditions he has tobe personal, he has to be
transcendent, sovereign andimmutable, and so forth, and we
could go on.
And those preconditions are metonly in the God of the Bible.
So I guess what I'm getting tois not only is it not
(22:36):
unreasonable to believe in God,there can't be any such thing as
reason without God.
You know reason depends uponGod.
So really, reason depends uponour faith.
You know it's Christian faithbeing true.
Without the Christian faithbeing true there can't be any
norms or laws or standards bywhich rationality is defined,
and without that you don't haveany such thing as reason.
(22:57):
So reason depends upon God.
I think it was the greattheologian, st Augustine of
Hippo, aurelius Augustine, whosaid you know, I'm paraphrasing
somewhat, but he said somethinglike I believe so that I might
know.
You know, I have faith so thatI can have knowledge.
(23:18):
We can't have reason withoutGod, I guess is the point.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
So how do we deal with people that say that
Christianity is a crook for theweak and that don't cope with
the painful reality of painfulside of reality?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, great question.
I love that question.
That was the philosopherSigmund Freud's argument.
He argued that Sigmund Freudlooked at the world and humanity
and world history and said wow,everywhere I look in world
history, people are religious.
They believe in gods or a godor some kind of religion.
(24:04):
So how do we account for thatif there is no god?
And the theory he came up withwas well, people have a hard
time coping with these harshrealities of life that are
outside of their control, and sowe invent some god that we can
appeal to.
For example, ancient peopledidn't know how to deal with the
(24:27):
tidal wave or the volcano orthe hurricane, so you invent a
god of the hurricane.
Now we can pray to him or offersacrifices to him, and so forth
.
So Freud would argue that thegod was nonexistent.
He was made up, and of course,in most cases that's true In
modern times.
(24:47):
What's the greatest harshreality we can't cope with?
Well, death, dying, ceasing toexist.
He believes that if we die,we're gone and that's it.
So we've invented this crotch,this false god that says, or
(25:10):
this false religion that sayshey, when you die, you're not
gone, you get to go on, liveeternally, see your loved ones
again.
He said that's not true, it'sjust a crutch.
It's a crutch for weak-mindedpeople who can't deal with the
harsh reality that when you'regone, you're gone.
Okay.
So here's how I would answerthat.
I would say, mr Freud, Ipersonally don't find the
prospect of dying and ceasing toexist to be all that
(25:32):
frightening.
If I ceased to exist, Iwouldn't even know I'd ceased to
exist because I wouldn't exist.
It's not that big a deal to me.
But what is a big deal is dyingand coming face to face with a
just and holy God.
So maybe Mr Floyd is puttingthe crutch on the wrong foot.
You know what I mean.
Maybe he can't handle the harshreality that what he does here
(25:58):
in this life does matter.
It matters eternally, and oneday he's going to stand before a
just and holy God and he can'thandle that.
So he's invented this crutch,this false religion called
atheism, you know, to avoidhaving to, you know, deal with
that harsh reality.
So I think that he's the onewho's using a psychological
coping mechanism, not us.
Let me tell a little storyabout that that, I think,
(26:22):
illustrates that point prettywell.
Up here in Central Maine a fewyears ago, I was leading a tour,
a foraging day.
We were taking a group ofpeople around and foraging for
wild edible plants and showingthem which kind of plants they
could eat, which ones theycouldn't, what, what to do with
them and what time of year topick them, and that sort of
thing.
And I went into the area whereI was going to do this tour the
(26:42):
day before because I wanted toscout out different plants I
wanted to be able to feature,and I found a plant called
Japanese knotweed growing insomebody's yard and I went and
knocked on the door and said,hey, can I bring people here
tomorrow to look at this patchof plants here?
And the woman said, yeah, noproblem.
But she and I talked for awhile outside her house and
(27:04):
while we were talking, a turkeyvulture soared overhead, went
gliding around in circlesoverhead, and she looked up and
said, oh wow, if there's anafterlife, I want to come back
as one of those.
So I took the occasion and saidwell, there certainly is an
afterlife.
We can know that because God'sword tells us, but we're not
coming back, as anything.
There's no such thing asreincarnation.
And that led into a discussionabout the gospel and about the
(27:28):
Bible.
And finally, when theconversation was done, she kind
of put the conversation to anend by saying well, you know
what?
I believe that when we're dead,we're gone, that's all there is
.
There's nothing that comesafter this life.
And then she said these are herexact words.
She said, at least that's myhope.
So there, she just exposed thefact that she's hoping that's
(27:50):
her end life, hope that there isno God that we are accountable
to.
And that's the Aaron SigmundFreud's argument.
He's the one with the crotch,not us.
So that's kind of a long answer, but that would be my answer to
that argument.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And even some people.
They'll twist it and point itback to us and say well, we're
the ones that are making upChristianity.
We're the ones that are, youknow, making up Christianity.
We're the ones that are makingup the Bible and making up, you
know, jesus and him being onthis earth, but we know that he
was on this earth.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, definitely, yeah yeah.
The evidence supporting theChristian worldview is so huge,
such a high volume of it, thatthose kind of arguments almost
sound silly to me.
People still make thosearguments, don't they?
But to argue that Jesus neverexisted, never walked on the
earth, is just really, reallysilly.
He's mentioned in a whole lotof extra-biblical manuscripts.
(28:50):
The evidence is justoverwhelming.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
The evidence is just overwhelming.
Well, as we get ready to endhere, can you give us one last
encouragement for our listeners?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, yeah, happy to.
Yeah, thanks for theopportunity.
I would encourage all thelisteners.
Well, I guess I would encouragethem in different ways.
I guess I would encourage themin different ways.
(29:23):
If listeners are not Christians,then I would encourage them to
really take a careful, seriouslook at the Christian worldview.
I think you're going to findthat it will stand up to
scrutiny, and don't be afraid toask the hard questions.
So, if you're not a Christian,really take a careful look at
(29:46):
the Christian worldview and lookat it with this in mind.
This is the most importantdecision you can ever make,
because your eternity dependsupon it.
If I'm right, the Christianworldview is true.
You need to be right with thetrue and living God, the one God
who actually does exist, withthe true and living God, the one
God who actually does exist.
So, for people who areChristians, I would say keep
fighting the good fight.
If you're a sufferer, like myfamily has been, if you're
suffering trials and afflictions, then keep your eyes on the
(30:08):
Lord.
He will never leave you norforsake you.
He not only entered this worldand suffered with us, he
suffered for us.
He suffered more than any manand he did it for us to pay the
penalty for our sins.
So keep this in mind as we plowforward through trials and
(30:29):
afflictions.
We serve a God who loves us.
We serve a God who was ordained.
Whatsoever comes to pass and heworks all things, even
disabilities and sufferings andtrials.
He works them all together forthe good of those who love him.
So keep our eyes on Jesus.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Amen.
How can people connect with youand buy your book?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I'm not a technology guy, so the best answer I can
give you is one that I giveeverybody, and they all say this
is an adequate answer.
So right now it's available onAmazon.
I'm hoping to have it availableelsewhere eventually, but right
now Amazon is the best place toget it.
And if you go on Amazon andlook up my name or do a search
(31:16):
for my name, david Libby, andthe name of the book A Different
World, so David Libby, aDifferent World People say it's
really easy to find.
So you know, I'd give a link ifI had one, but I'm not a
technology guy, but people sayit's really easy.
If you look on Amazon DavidLibby, a Different World you're
going to find it easily.
So yeah, thank to find iteasily.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So yeah, thank you, dorsey, I'll find it and I'll
put it in the show notes for you.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I appreciate that anawful lot.
Yeah, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Well, guys and girls, thank you so much for joining
us today on another episode ofthe Dorsey Rush Show, and thank
you, david, for coming on andsharing your story.
And until next time, god bless,bye-bye.
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorseyRush Show.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
His name is David Libby.
Him and his wife Lisa raisedtheir two daughters, kayla and
Bethany, in Royal Maine andrural Ming.
(00:21):
They hunted, fished and foragedfor wild edible plants, went
camping in remote andundiscovered places, grew
gardens, raised livestock andhomesteading.
Mom and David with aself-employed logger, and David
(00:42):
were self-employed.
As an unintended consequence ofthis lifestyle, they were
bitten by dozens of ticks.
About the time their girls werein their mid-teens, the whole
family had become desperatelyill with Lyme disease, along
(01:03):
with a host of complications.
The whole family had becomedesperately ill with Lyme
disease, along with a host ofcomplications.
For years he served in thechurch, first as a deacon and
then as an elder.
David had been a longself-taught student of theology
and philosophy.
He had learned all the correctanswers to some of the most
(01:26):
difficult questions and can holdhis own as a Christian
apologist and theologian.
When his family's health fellapart, he discovered something
that the books do not teach thatthere is a sharp disconnect
(01:46):
between an encyclopedia of thatknowledge I'm sorry, of
encyclopedic knowledge and anapplication of the knowledge in
the muddy and bloody trenches.
It is there that this book wasconceived.
David, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, thank you for having me, Dorsey.
I'm very glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Absolutely.
Now tell us a little bit aboutyourself and you know what made
you write this book.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, I wrote the book because of the experience
we had with this.
You know, very serious illnessand having to grapple with the
tough questions and I thoughtthat perhaps you know the
conclusions that I'd come tomight be helpful for other
people who are also suffering.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
But you know, suffering was very difficult for
a very long time and it reallyforced me to you know kind of
and what you you know what youdealt with.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, okay.
So the physical struggles werevery serious.
Illness that included, you know, the girls feeling sick all the
time, but also severe pain allthroughout their bodies.
My wife described the pain asfeeling like there were shards
of broken glass all toward herbody.
They were debilitated at times,you know, couldn't walk at
times.
Severe seizures, even mentalhealth problems, psychotic
episodes and a whole lot ofother stuff.
So you know, that's kind ofgives a little sketch of the
(03:35):
physical.
You know physiological problems.
But then there are thephilosophical problems and
theological problems.
And those would be, you know,questions like if there is a God
who is good and all-powerful,then couldn't he stop this?
And why are these kinds ofthings happening and why is
there suffering in this world?
(03:55):
And I start out the book bygrappling with a question that
some of the atheists from the19th century grappled with.
Ernst Haeckel, a contemporaryof Charles Darwin's, coined what
he called the disteleologicalargument.
The teleological argumentargues that the world appears to
(04:18):
be designed, therefore it musthave a designer, right, he said.
Well, if that's true, then thedesigner must not be the God of
the Bible, because the God ofthe Bible doesn't make mistakes.
And look at the world it's fullof mistakes.
So the book kind of startsthere.
How do we grapple with thatquestion, how do we answer that
question?
And then it moves on from there.
Or actually it starts outtelling my family's story, but
once I get into the section, youknow, third chapter, that's
(04:40):
where it begins with Heckel'squestion.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Now, all those issues that you described a little
while ago.
All that came from Lyme disease.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Lyme disease was kind of the trigger for a whole lot
of problems, but there wereother complications as well, and
a big piece of the puzzle was agenetic mutation that my wife
and both daughters have but Idon't have, which is why it was
very easy for me to treat thedisease and very difficult for
them.
What this mutation does is itkills the body's ability to deal
(05:14):
with toxins, and so they weresuffering not only from Lyme
disease, from what the Borreliaspirochetes do to the body, but
also they were suffering fromall the toxins that we breathe
in and that are in our food andthat are on our clothing,
because the Lyme had kind ofhelped shut down the body's
ability to deal with thesetoxins and to process them.
(05:34):
So it was complicated.
It was complicated and veryhard to treat and it took a lot
of years and a lot of money.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Right, oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And I know that experience as well.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
How did you come to the answer of you know?
Is there a God and why wouldGod allow you guys to go through
that?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
So initially I guess therewould be several parts to the
answer that I would give.
The first part of the answerwould be that Ernst Haeckel with
his teleological argument andhe actually borrowed it from
David Hume a century earlierErnst Haeckel with his
teleological argument, and heactually borrowed it from David
(06:27):
Hume a century earlier.
But his argument really is kindof a foolish one, because God
has promised us that there wouldbe trouble in this world.
You know, we read in Genesis 3that God has cursed his creation
because of human rebellion,because of sin, and as a result
there is pain and sufferingbecause of God's curse.
So Ernst Haeckel's argumentreally kind of goes like this
(06:54):
Don't things like sufferingprove that there is no God?
Well, no, they don't prove thatat all, because God told us
that there would be suffering.
God ordained that there wouldbe.
So, for example, imagine Evehaving just given birth to her
first child and saying wow, youknow that really hurt.
That must prove there is no God.
Well, no, god told her thatyou're going to have pain in
childbirth.
So it doesn't disprove God atall.
(07:15):
In fact it's part of the design.
But then of course that doesn'tanswer all of our questions.
You know God could take ourtrials away.
Why didn't he ordain a realitywhere there was no fall into sin
?
And you know we can always pushback against those answers, but
I think that there are goodanswers in Scripture.
God ordained the reality thatwe have for his glory.
(07:37):
God is glorified in a displayof his justice and you know
where would we have an occasionfor that display if there were
no sin?
And he's glorified in thedisplay of his justice.
And you know where would wehave an occasion for that
display if there were no sin?
And he's glorified in thedisplay of his mercy and grace.
If there were no need forredemption, we wouldn't have
this.
You know, beautiful display ofmercy and grace and a fall into
sin and suffering gives God theoccasion to display his love in
(08:01):
profound and amazing ways, youknow, in the atonement and in
redemption.
But you know we can still pushback against those answers as
well.
But the end of the line answer,I believe, is found in the end
of the book of Job and in Romans9, verse 20 and elsewhere, and
that answer would be he is Godand I'm not.
You know, at some point I needto be contented with an
(08:22):
acceptance of what is.
This is the reality that he hasordained, even if I don't
understand why, even if all thewhy questions aren't answered.
And also, by the way, scripturegives us good answers to a lot
of our why questions not all thewhy questions, but a lot of
them.
We're told in Scripture thatwe're sanctified through trials
(08:43):
and afflictions.
Scripture uses the analogy of afuller's soap, you know,
scrubbing off all the you knowpollution of sin.
But also the analogy of arefiner's fire.
You know, the silver and thegold are refined in the fire,
and so it's in the fires ofaffliction that we find this
sanctification and this refining.
And, you know, it seems to methat people who really truly do
(09:03):
love the Lord Jesus are drawncloser to him in times of trial.
So there are good answers inScripture, even if all the
answers aren't given.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Right.
What would you say to peoplewho are going through trials and
going through difficulties, butthey're questioning God?
They're questioning God of youknow why would you allow this to
happen?
You know they may even be likeyou know God.
You know you told me that, yes,there would be trials, but you
(09:35):
didn't tell me how bad thesetrials would be.
You know, so I'm not going to.
You know, I'm trying to trustin you, but the doctors are
telling me X, y, z.
What would you say to thosepeople?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a very good question, avery important question, and
it's not all hypothetical, is it?
Because those things really dohappen, they happen every day.
And what I would say to thatperson is I guess it depends on
why the person's asking.
If the person is doubting theexistence of God because of
these trials, I would say, well,no, the trials actually
(10:13):
demonstrate that there is a God.
Because he said there would betrials.
But if the person is believingin God but just asking why me?
Then I would say I would bevery, very sympathetic, first of
all because I've been theremyself and it's awful easy to
not be suffering and to spoutout the right answers, but when
(10:33):
you're really there it's hard.
So I would be very sympathetic,but I would tell the person to
focus on what you know to betrue.
What you know to be true iswhat is taught in God's Word.
For example, a beautifulexample is in 1 Corinthians
either 1 or 2 Corinthians, Iforget which chapters 4 and
(10:57):
chapter 5.
Beautiful discourse where Paultalks about trials and
afflictions and we're beatendown but not crushed, and so
forth, and he says that ourmomentary light affliction here
(11:18):
in this life is actuallycontributing to, or storing up
or making a contribution to aneternal weight of glory in the
life to come.
So I guess I would tell thatperson to try to focus on
getting through the next minute.
Don't look at the big picture,but just hang on.
And as you're hanging on, besure there is purpose behind it.
(11:39):
God is using these trials forhis glory and for your good.
It's hard to accept that in themidst of the trials, isn't it?
But God's word tells us that'strue, and so we can trust in
that.
Yeah, but it is hard.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And like you said you just said you know, think about
today or think about thismoment, don't worry about
tomorrow.
And that's exactly what theBible says.
Hey, bible says hey, you've gotenough trouble over calling
today, don't worry abouttomorrow, Don't worry about next
week or next month or severalmonths down the road.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's right.
Yeah, well said.
Yeah, you're exactly right.
My daughter, bethany, used tosay that you know, when she was
really, really suffering.
She used to say that one greatcomfort that she held on to was
the fact that every minute thatpasses is a minute that will
never have to pass again.
So you know, focus on gettingthrough the.
(12:40):
You know the next few steps.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know you mentioned it a little while ago,
but how is it that a God whocannot make mistakes has made a
world full of mistakes?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, right, right, yeah.
That's Ernst Haeckel'sdisteological argument, which he
borrowed from David Hume acentury earlier, and my answer
is by the way, there are a lotof answers that we find by
well-meaning Christians.
I don't mean to put them downin any way, but there are a lot
of answers that I don't believeare adequate answers.
I think the correct answer isthat he hasn't made any mistakes
(13:18):
.
The trials and afflictions arenot a mistake.
They're all part of hissovereign plan, woven together,
you know, for a divine purpose.
And if God were not a sovereignGod, that wouldn't be possible.
But he is a sovereign God, youknow.
God's word tells us that veryclearly.
So my answer would be there areno mistakes.
Pain and suffering aren'tmistakes.
They're all part of God'ssovereign plan aren't mistakes.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
They're all part of God's sovereign plan.
Amen, and I guess it goes alongwith what you just said For
people with disabilities.
We'll use that as an exampleFor people like myself who have
disabilities and we may talk tothem about God and we may tell
(14:03):
them about God and, you know,they may say well, you know, if
God is perfect and God doesn'tmake mistakes, you know, why
would he?
You know, why would he allow meto be born?
You know?
Would you say the same thing,that that obviously God doesn't
make mistakes.
But how would you expound onthat question to someone with a
(14:25):
disability?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, yeah, again, I would be very, very sympathetic,
of course, but I would say that, first of all, if the person
doesn't believe in God, then Iwould say your disability is no
evidence against his existence,because God's word tells us that
this is what we are to expectin this world.
You know what you're saying is,if there were a God, this
(14:49):
wouldn't happen.
But the God who exists, the onein the scripture, says that it
will happen.
So it's no evidence against hisexistence.
But if the person is someonewho believes in God, if the
person is a Christian, then Iwould say a person is someone
who believes in God.
If the person is a Christian,then I would say try to change
your perspective, change yourfocus.
You could even look at thedisability or the suffering as a
(15:16):
privilege, because it's givingyou the opportunity to glorify
God in ways that you wouldn'thave otherwise.
So think of it this way If lifeor God gives us circumstances
that would give the unbelievergrounds to shake his fist at God
and curse God, but instead welove God all the more and we
(15:39):
remain faithful to him, then wehave glorified him in ways that
we could not have done if wedidn't have the disability or if
we didn't have the suffering.
So I would say, first, you know, trust him in a sovereign God.
He's given us what is best forhis glory and for our good and,
you know, glorify him in it andknow that you have the occasion
(16:01):
to glorify him in ways that youwouldn't have if you didn't have
the disability.
I'm reminded of the man inScripture who, in the Gospel of
John I forget which chapter, butthe man who was born blind, and
the Lord Jesus healed him.
And the disciples asked was itbecause of this man's sin or was
it because of his parents' sinthat he was born blind?
And Jesus probably shocked themwith his answer.
(16:23):
He said neither.
He was born blind so that Godwould be glorified when I heal
him.
So you know, he suffered withblindness all that time so that
God would be glorified.
So if we have a self-centeredperspective, we might say, well,
that's not fair.
You know why, would you knowGod glorify himself, but he made
me suffer in the process.
But if we have a God-centeredfocus, then we say, wow, what a
(16:48):
privilege.
I was born blind so I couldglorify God.
What an awesome privilege.
So a different perspective, Ithink, would be in order.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah, well, for myself, you know, I've had 68
operations over my lifetime.
I grew up in the church andgave my life to Christ at the
age of 13.
Traveling around sharing mystory.
(17:23):
You know because that's youknow exactly what you're saying
that God allowed me to be bornthis way because I can glorify
him and travel around and sharemy story.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yes, right, and that actually right, that you
actually added to my answer andyou added to it beautifully,
because in your case you mightnot have had that opportunity to
share you know your story tospeak, to have had that
opportunity to share your storyto speak to as many people as
you do if it hadn't been for thedisability.
So he's opened up beautifulopportunities in this life as
well.
So, yeah, amen, brother, yeah,very well said.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's a lot of operations, brother 68
operations Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
That's a lot of operations, by the way, 68
operations Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Isn't a biblical worldview inconsistent with
science?
Not at all.
There are those who would liketo think that aren't there, but
no, not at all.
In fact, I would argue so.
I love philosophy and I'mactually about to launch another
book that I've finished writingthat gives a philosophical
(18:28):
defense of Christian faith.
It's not available yet butshould be available soon.
First of all, by pointing outthat real science, done well,
has never made a singlediscovery that contradicts a
biblical worldview in any way.
In fact I think there's a lotthat's been discovered that
(18:48):
supports a biblical worldview.
But I would answer in anotherway as well.
I would say that we're going toget into a little philosophy
here, a little heady stuff here,but that science depends upon
induction, and induction dependsupon things like the uniformity
of nature, trustworthiness ofthe senses and that sort of
thing.
We need to have a solidfoundation for empiricism and so
(19:12):
forth.
A lot of fancy-sounding lingothere.
But I would argue and I'm notgoing to get into details as to
why, unless you want me to, butI would argue that we can't have
any of those things without God.
Those things all depend uponGod.
So science would not be possible, I would argue, if there were
no God.
Without God, we don't have anyreason to believe in uniformity
of nature.
(19:32):
Well, with God we do, becauseGod tells us so.
Without God, we don't have anyreason to believe that
empiricism is a sound foundation.
Empiricism is simply thephilosophy that says that truth
is determined by what weexperience.
But how do we know ourexperience is even real?
Well, we know that because Godtells us so in his words.
(19:53):
So, with God, we have a solidfoundation for science.
Without God, we don't have asolid foundation for science,
and I love science, by the way.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
To add on to that, to the next question.
Isn't it a bit passé to stillhave faith in the age of reason?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Not at all.
I would answer that a coupledifferent ways.
Again.
We'll get into a littlephilosophy here.
First of all, I would arguethat every worldview position
depends upon faith on some level.
So nobody can say I don't havefaith.
Atheists love to talk about howthey don't have faith.
(20:39):
They have reason, but theirwhole worldview is built on a
foundation of faith.
Their whole worldview isnaturalistic.
They don't believe in anyspiritual realm.
They don't believe in God.
All they believe is God.
They believe in matter, youknow, matter in motion, matter
and energy, and there's nothingmore to reality than that.
But how do you know?
How do you know that there isnothing more to reality than
(21:02):
matter and energy and so forth?
And they can't know.
They can't know.
They have to accept that onblind faith.
So every worldview you know wecould talk about other
worldviews as well, but you knowI picked on the atheists, but
we could pick on anybody Everyworldview depends upon faith on
the foundational level.
So no, it's not passe to havefaith.
(21:24):
We all have faith, you know.
The question is what is theobject to have faith?
I would argue that reason couldnot exist without absolute
norms or laws or rules thatgovern right and wrong thinking
rationality.
So think of it this way it'simpossible for your thinking to
(21:48):
go off the rails unless thereactually are rails to go off
from.
And how do you justify theexistence of absolutes, absolute
laws of rationality without anabsolute lawgiver?
You know we could spend a lotmore time, you know, teasing
that out, but I would argue thatyou can't.
You can't justify absolutes ofrationality without an absolute
(22:11):
lawgiver.
And that absolute lawgiver hasto meet certain conditions,
certain preconditions he has tobe personal, he has to be
transcendent, sovereign andimmutable, and so forth, and we
could go on.
And those preconditions are metonly in the God of the Bible.
So I guess what I'm getting tois not only is it not
(22:36):
unreasonable to believe in God,there can't be any such thing as
reason without God.
You know reason depends uponGod.
So really, reason depends uponour faith.
You know it's Christian faithbeing true.
Without the Christian faithbeing true there can't be any
norms or laws or standards bywhich rationality is defined,
and without that you don't haveany such thing as reason.
(22:57):
So reason depends upon God.
I think it was the greattheologian, st Augustine of
Hippo, aurelius Augustine, whosaid you know, I'm paraphrasing
somewhat, but he said somethinglike I believe so that I might
know.
You know, I have faith so thatI can have knowledge.
(23:18):
We can't have reason withoutGod, I guess is the point.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
So how do we deal with people that say that
Christianity is a crook for theweak and that don't cope with
the painful reality of painfulside of reality?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, great question.
I love that question.
That was the philosopherSigmund Freud's argument.
He argued that Sigmund Freudlooked at the world and humanity
and world history and said wow,everywhere I look in world
history, people are religious.
They believe in gods or a godor some kind of religion.
(24:04):
So how do we account for thatif there is no god?
And the theory he came up withwas well, people have a hard
time coping with these harshrealities of life that are
outside of their control, and sowe invent some god that we can
appeal to.
For example, ancient peopledidn't know how to deal with the
(24:27):
tidal wave or the volcano orthe hurricane, so you invent a
god of the hurricane.
Now we can pray to him or offersacrifices to him, and so forth
.
So Freud would argue that thegod was nonexistent.
He was made up, and of course,in most cases that's true In
modern times.
(24:47):
What's the greatest harshreality we can't cope with?
Well, death, dying, ceasing toexist.
He believes that if we die,we're gone and that's it.
So we've invented this crotch,this false god that says, or
(25:10):
this false religion that sayshey, when you die, you're not
gone, you get to go on, liveeternally, see your loved ones
again.
He said that's not true, it'sjust a crutch.
It's a crutch for weak-mindedpeople who can't deal with the
harsh reality that when you'regone, you're gone.
Okay.
So here's how I would answerthat.
I would say, mr Freud, Ipersonally don't find the
prospect of dying and ceasing toexist to be all that
(25:32):
frightening.
If I ceased to exist, Iwouldn't even know I'd ceased to
exist because I wouldn't exist.
It's not that big a deal to me.
But what is a big deal is dyingand coming face to face with a
just and holy God.
So maybe Mr Floyd is puttingthe crutch on the wrong foot.
You know what I mean.
Maybe he can't handle the harshreality that what he does here
(25:58):
in this life does matter.
It matters eternally, and oneday he's going to stand before a
just and holy God and he can'thandle that.
So he's invented this crutch,this false religion called
atheism, you know, to avoidhaving to, you know, deal with
that harsh reality.
So I think that he's the onewho's using a psychological
coping mechanism, not us.
Let me tell a little storyabout that that, I think,
(26:22):
illustrates that point prettywell.
Up here in Central Maine a fewyears ago, I was leading a tour,
a foraging day.
We were taking a group ofpeople around and foraging for
wild edible plants and showingthem which kind of plants they
could eat, which ones theycouldn't, what, what to do with
them and what time of year topick them, and that sort of
thing.
And I went into the area whereI was going to do this tour the
(26:42):
day before because I wanted toscout out different plants I
wanted to be able to feature,and I found a plant called
Japanese knotweed growing insomebody's yard and I went and
knocked on the door and said,hey, can I bring people here
tomorrow to look at this patchof plants here?
And the woman said, yeah, noproblem.
But she and I talked for awhile outside her house and
(27:04):
while we were talking, a turkeyvulture soared overhead, went
gliding around in circlesoverhead, and she looked up and
said, oh wow, if there's anafterlife, I want to come back
as one of those.
So I took the occasion and saidwell, there certainly is an
afterlife.
We can know that because God'sword tells us, but we're not
coming back, as anything.
There's no such thing asreincarnation.
And that led into a discussionabout the gospel and about the
(27:28):
Bible.
And finally, when theconversation was done, she kind
of put the conversation to anend by saying well, you know
what?
I believe that when we're dead,we're gone, that's all there is
.
There's nothing that comesafter this life.
And then she said these are herexact words.
She said, at least that's myhope.
So there, she just exposed thefact that she's hoping that's
(27:50):
her end life, hope that there isno God that we are accountable
to.
And that's the Aaron SigmundFreud's argument.
He's the one with the crotch,not us.
So that's kind of a long answer, but that would be my answer to
that argument.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And even some people.
They'll twist it and point itback to us and say well, we're
the ones that are making upChristianity.
We're the ones that are, youknow, making up Christianity.
We're the ones that are makingup the Bible and making up, you
know, jesus and him being onthis earth, but we know that he
was on this earth.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, definitely, yeah yeah.
The evidence supporting theChristian worldview is so huge,
such a high volume of it, thatthose kind of arguments almost
sound silly to me.
People still make thosearguments, don't they?
But to argue that Jesus neverexisted, never walked on the
earth, is just really, reallysilly.
He's mentioned in a whole lotof extra-biblical manuscripts.
(28:50):
The evidence is justoverwhelming.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
The evidence is just overwhelming.
Well, as we get ready to endhere, can you give us one last
encouragement for our listeners?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, yeah, happy to.
Yeah, thanks for theopportunity.
I would encourage all thelisteners.
Well, I guess I would encouragethem in different ways.
I guess I would encourage themin different ways.
(29:23):
If listeners are not Christians,then I would encourage them to
really take a careful, seriouslook at the Christian worldview.
I think you're going to findthat it will stand up to
scrutiny, and don't be afraid toask the hard questions.
So, if you're not a Christian,really take a careful look at
(29:46):
the Christian worldview and lookat it with this in mind.
This is the most importantdecision you can ever make,
because your eternity dependsupon it.
If I'm right, the Christianworldview is true.
You need to be right with thetrue and living God, the one God
who actually does exist, withthe true and living God, the one
God who actually does exist.
So, for people who areChristians, I would say keep
fighting the good fight.
If you're a sufferer, like myfamily has been, if you're
suffering trials and afflictions, then keep your eyes on the
(30:08):
Lord.
He will never leave you norforsake you.
He not only entered this worldand suffered with us, he
suffered for us.
He suffered more than any manand he did it for us to pay the
penalty for our sins.
So keep this in mind as we plowforward through trials and
(30:29):
afflictions.
We serve a God who loves us.
We serve a God who was ordained.
Whatsoever comes to pass and heworks all things, even
disabilities and sufferings andtrials.
He works them all together forthe good of those who love him.
So keep our eyes on Jesus.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Amen.
How can people connect with youand buy your book?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I'm not a technology guy, so the best answer I can
give you is one that I giveeverybody, and they all say this
is an adequate answer.
So right now it's available onAmazon.
I'm hoping to have it availableelsewhere eventually, but right
now Amazon is the best place toget it.
And if you go on Amazon andlook up my name or do a search
(31:16):
for my name, david Libby, andthe name of the book A Different
World, so David Libby, aDifferent World People say it's
really easy to find.
So you know, I'd give a link ifI had one, but I'm not a
technology guy, but people sayit's really easy.
If you look on Amazon DavidLibby, a Different World you're
going to find it easily.
So yeah, thank to find iteasily.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So yeah, thank you, dorsey, I'll find it and I'll
put it in the show notes for you.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I appreciate that anawful lot.
Yeah, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Well, guys and girls, thank you so much for joining
us today on another episode ofthe Dorsey Rush Show, and thank
you, david, for coming on andsharing your story.
And until next time, god bless,bye-bye.
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