September 11, 2024 • 26 mins
Have you ever wondered how to find hope in the face of unimaginable loss? Join us as we speak with Brigitte Dunbar, the author of "Grief, Loss, and the Goodness of God," who shares her deeply personal journey through the tragic loss of her son at birth. We explore Brigitte's love for the slower pace of "Pride and Prejudice," her lifelong dream of motherhood, and her unwavering faith. As a marriage and family therapist, pastoral counselor, and faith-based grief coach, Brigitte passionately discusses how she helps others navigate life's most challenging moments, emphasizing the importance of achieving breakthroughs.
In this heartfelt episode, Brigitte highlights the significance of community and relationships during difficult times. She shares personal insights on how reaching out to others instead of isolating was a crucial part of her healing process. This episode is packed with practical advice on how friends and family can best support someone experiencing grief, and Brigitte introduces her book as a valuable resource filled with reflective questions to assist those in mourning. We conclude with a heartfelt thank you to our listeners and an invitation to explore more resources on Brigitte's website. Don't miss this touching conversation that promises to provide comfort and guidance to anyone grappling with grief and loss.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorsalEarth Show.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
Her name is Brigitte Dunbar.
She has experienced the tragicloss of her son at birth and, as
a result, is the author of thebook Grief Loss and the Goodness
(00:24):
of God.
Lizzie holds a master's degreein marriage and family therapy
and currently offers faith-basedgrief coaching.
Lizzie, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Thank you so much.
I'm so honored, definitely.
Well, I like to usually startoff the show with a icebreaker
(00:49):
question, and today is what'syour favorite movie and what
does it reveal about you?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I my favorite movie?
That's a great question.
My favorite movie actually isPride and Prejudice, and I think
what it reveals about me iswell one.
I just love the time periodit's set in.
It's just set in a time periodwhere everything is much slower.
You kind of rode horses orwalked places, and I think that
(01:20):
the characters in it reallywrestled with facing themselves
honestly, which was facing theirown pride or prejudices that
were keeping them from just thelife that they really did desire
.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So yeah, and another one is what did you want to be
when you were a kid, and why?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You know, what's funny is I actually wanted to be
a mom Ever since I was young.
I have a wonderful mom, and Ijust saw it as such a great
experience, something I wantedto experience, and so I remember
at a young age I wanted to be amom, and so that was my goal in
life.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
What's your favorite quote Quote?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, what's your favorite quote?
Oh, that's a good one.
My favorite quote?
I'm not really sure you know.
I think that it'd probably besomething along the lines of it,
honestly, probably be ascripture.
To be honest, it's my favoritequote in scripture is really,
(02:35):
you know that you'll have that Ican face that that God hasn't
already been there and conqueredfor me?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
more about yourself, about your life and about your
story of faith.
Yeah, so I, you know, I grew upfrom a young age knowing the
Lord and I loved, I loved God, Ilove Jesus and I always wanted
to go to church and so I kind ofgrew up just feeling like that
was my second home.
And so I think I grew up justreally seeking God at a young
(03:21):
age, which was a greatfoundation for me growing up.
And as I grew up I got married.
My former husband at the timebecame a pastor.
Him and I worked in the churchtogether in pastoral leadership
positions and I just found awhole other side of faith and
(03:45):
religion and I'm glad for thoseexperiences that I've had.
And since then I've kind ofcome to a point of just really
seeking out what does it looklike to serve God in everyday
life?
And now I have been a licensedmarriage family therapist for
over a decade.
I now have taken all of myexperience in the world of
(04:07):
psychology, marriage, familytherapy and also pastoral
counseling and ministry and putit together and so I serve
people at a different capacity,that I put all of that together
to really bring breakthrough forpeople and why are you
passionate about what you do?
(04:37):
And tell us a little bit moreabout what you do.
Oftentimes, you know, it'sdifficult to really create the
life that we want and also thatGod intended for us, because
there's such a battle in ourmind, and I think that's why
people seek therapy, they seekcounseling, they seek, you know,
resources in the church,pastoral support, and yet what
(05:02):
I've found is that all of thoseby themselves can sometimes be
limited, and so I have such anarray of different backgrounds,
so I've put everything into onepackage for people, and I'm
really passionate about that,because I love seeing people get
breakthrough, I mean big orsmall.
I actually think that we weredesigned to go from glory to
(05:26):
glory, and really what thatlooks like very simply is just
breakthrough to breakthrough,like one breakthrough to one
breakthrough, and breakthroughcan look big or small, but it's
just progress in life inwherever you need it, wherever
you feel stuck, and so I'mreally passionate about helping
people get unstuck.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
And so I'm really passionate about helping people
get unstuck Now, is that firstin dealing with grief, or is
that dealing with anything thatsomebody brings to you?
Hey, I'm stuck in the job.
I don't want to be here anymore.
I'm stuck in my finances.
How do I get unstuck with that?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, you know right, it's everything.
So I love working with peoplethat have experienced grief of
any kind.
I mean I wrote a book on it.
It was my whole is a big chunkof my life that I went through
deep grieving, and so I ampassionate definitely about
helping people overcome thestruggles that grief just
(06:23):
naturally brings into our life.
Overcome the struggles thatgrief just naturally brings into
our life.
But my services are foreveryone.
I work with anyone, whetherit's, you know, job performance
or just dissatisfaction,relationships or grief or loss.
You know you're going throughmaybe a life transition and you
just don't you don't haveclarity on what's next.
So I actually I do it all.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
What inspired you and motivated you to write your
book Grief, love and theGoodness of God.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, so I actually, you know, going back to always
wanting to be a mother eversince I was little, I got
pregnant and had a miscarriage,which is pretty common amongst
women, and that really kind ofturned my world upside down.
I got pregnant again shortlyafter that and carried that baby
(07:17):
all the way to 35 weeks andthen when he was born, he was
born stillborn, so he was bornnot alive, and that really
really shook my whole world.
And so I kind of experiencedtwo losses pregnancy losses back
to back, and I, you know,everything that I had believed
(07:39):
in just my faith and everythingit really I wouldn't say you
know crumbled, but it gotchallenged.
I went through a period of mylife where I was just so
depressed I didn't really knowwhat life looked like.
I had experienced other lossestoo.
(08:01):
Around that time I'd lost afamily member, experienced other
losses too.
Around that time I'd lost afamily member, my marriage and
my position at my church, justbecause I couldn't hold that
position while grieving anymore,and so in that I lost my
community with that, and sothere's so many losses that it
really kind of leveled my lifeout and I didn't know what to do
or what life looked like and Iactually really wrestled with
(08:25):
God in that time and what Irecognized was that a lot of
people go through this atvarious levels and I wanted to
put my experience in a book andalso my experiences in helping
people, because at the time too,I was also doing grief
counseling and helping peoplewalk through that, and I
(08:46):
recognized in myself and in myclients that walking through
loss like that is reallydifficult and I don't know how
many amazing or effectiveresources there were when I was
grieving.
I was looking for stuff for me.
Effective resources there were.
(09:06):
When I was grieving, I waslooking for stuff for me and I
it was just it felt like I kindof had to piece stuff together,
and so I wanted to puteverything I've learned and
experienced in a book and helpthose who are walking through it
find healing and hope on theother side of that.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
What does the you know the title of your book is,
you know, grief, Loss and theGoodness of God.
What does that?
What does the goodness of Godlook like when someone is
dealing with grief, grief andloss?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I'll say that.
But what I found, that itlooked like for me, was that in
my deepest, darkest,soul-searching hours, I found
(09:56):
God there, and I think that Irecognize that, even when life
feels hopeless and dark, thatGod is still with us.
It's just a matter ofrecognizing Him.
It's a matter of receiving Him,of inviting Him into that place
of pain, of disappointment, ofhurt, and I have so many stories
looking back on where God'sgoodness showed up.
(10:16):
I think when you're in it, youdon't really see the goodness in
the destruction of your life oreverything.
But but looking back, I I mean,god's goodness showed up in my
life in so many different ways.
I talk about it in the book,but you know, um, it like
through people, through just uh,you know so many different
(10:39):
things.
I I actually, you know, had Ihave a story one time, so I it
was maybe shortly after I hadlost my son.
I was crying at home.
I was literally just like inbed in tears because I had
actually uh, named my sonintentionally.
His name was Merit Mackay and,um, I believe that God gave me
(11:03):
that name, I wanted to use itand I felt like I was grieving
over the fact that I could neveruse his name, I could never say
his name out loud because hewasn't there.
I couldn't call him and be likehey, merit, come back here,
whatever.
And so I was just crying out toGod one day like why did this
happen?
(11:23):
Like this is so sad.
And I just remember feeling somuch heavy grief over the fact
that I could never use His name.
And I'm kidding you not, I wouldsay maybe a half an hour later
I get a knock on my door and afriend of mine, a former pastor
that I had known and worked with.
(11:45):
She visited me and said I had alot of people praying for you
and shared your story of whathappened with your son, and she
has an organization that serveswomen in need in India.
And so she had said thatsomeone in their organization
(12:05):
had reached out and wanted toknow if I would be comfortable
with them naming theirorganization after my son.
And this specific organizationwas founded on the same day my
son was born and it serves womenwho are looking for ways to
have safe pregnancy deliveries.
And so I mean like if that'snot the goodness of God, I don't
(12:28):
know what is.
I mean it's so you know, tothis day, that organization is
still thriving and serving somany women in a great capacity,
and I feel like my son's namegets to live on in that way.
And you know, honestly, onlyGod could do something like that
.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
How did your experience of God affect you
after your, or change you afteryour loss?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
My experience of God.
You know, I think what Iexperienced of God so funny.
When you go through somethingso difficult in life, it could
be anything, I mean justanything that kind of just
shakes your world up a littlebit.
You start to you eitherdistance yourself from God or
you press in, and I did both atvarious times.
(13:17):
But when I pressed in I got tosee a side of God that I
otherwise would have never beenable to see, because I think
it's like when you're in such adark place in life, you are
searching for light, you'researching for hope, you're
searching for something to kindof pick up your spirits that
(13:37):
God's strength, his pursuit ofme, his patience with me, his
love for me, like all the thingsthat I know about God.
I got to experience at a wholeother level, when I really,
really truly needed all of thosecharacteristics of God.
I got to experience them at alevel or a depth that I'd say is
(13:59):
almost impossible to experiencewhen you're not in the darkness
and you need the light.
You need God.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
What is the most difficult thing that you have to
deal with with your coachingjob or your counseling job, and
it doesn't have to necessarilybe on the grief side.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
It could be anything that you want to talk about the
most difficult thing is thatwhat you said, yeah, um.
Well, you know, for me I don'tknow if it was difficult, but I
think it was.
Well, I'll say this.
(14:42):
So you know, what I found inworking with people, especially
after my loss, was that Iexperienced a whole new level of
empathy that I don't know if Ihad previously for those who are
really walking throughdepression, anxiety, panic
attacks, like all these symptomsthat we hear.
(15:03):
I was trained to help peopleovercome these symptoms and work
through them, but when I wasgoing through them myself and
helping people overcome them, Ifound a level of empathy that I
had not experienced previously,and I think that that actually
(15:23):
benefited me.
But it also brought me to aplace of really just, I think,
meeting my clients at adifferent level than I had
before, and so it was bothchallenging but also really good
for me and for them, and so Ithink that that was probably the
biggest change that happenedfor me after my loss, when I was
(15:45):
working with clients.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
What did you find most helpful when recovering
from the walk of your of yourkids.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
What I found most helpful, other than just staying
close to the Lord, is reachingout to people.
I think oftentimes when we gothrough something really
difficult, we tend to naturallyjust as humans we tend to
isolate fear, shame, just lowenergy, I know, in grief
(16:25):
oftentimes you just don'tactually have the energy to show
up in conversations or withpeople like you used to, and so
we just naturally tend toisolate.
And I remember just a time inmy life where I recognized, okay
, I actually need people, Iactually require relationships
and in my life, where I canreceive from them, I was always
(16:48):
a giver Like I don't know if youcan relate to this, but I felt
like I always gave and I lovedgiving to relationships, I loved
having this energy and showingup for people a certain way.
And when I couldn't do that anylonger, I noticed I started to
isolate and I think the mosthelpful thing for anyone is just
don't isolate.
You know, lean into thoserelationships, whether it's
(17:11):
family, friends, spouse,coworkers, whatever.
It is that because people wantto give to you like they want,
they want to, they havesomething to give, and I think
that oftentimes it's hard ashumans for us to receive as it
is to give, and so you know, Ilearned that receiving is a gift
as well, and it's a gift thatGod wants to give to you and
(17:33):
that oftentimes comes throughother people, and so so I think
what's helpful for anyone goingthrough anything maybe difficult
, grief or otherwise is just ispulling on those relationships,
letting people pour into you,receiving the love or
affirmations or your actualgifts that people want to give
(17:54):
to you and so my community washuge in my healing process and I
definitely talk about that inthe book is just, you know,
cause, cause, relationshipschange and um, and especially
when, when you go throughdifficult things, some people
it's uncomfortable for them toto know how to show up for you,
(18:15):
and so, uh, you know you changein the process.
I think just being able toreally be present with
relationships and friendshipsand knowing you know who to
receive from is important, andallowing yourself to receive
from others.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
You touched on it a little bit and that was going to
be one of my other questionsTalked on it a little bit and
that was going to be one of myother questions.
How do people, when they know afriend or relative or you know
coworker or whatnot, is grievingor lost with someone, how
should they respond, or you know, talk to that person?
Should they, you know, shouldthey bring it up?
(18:57):
Should they just, you know,talk to them, be there for them,
be a friend to them?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, I actually love this question because a lot of
people don't ask that and Ithink that oftentimes, when we
go through something hard andisolating, we actually need
somewhere to process that.
Now, not everyone is someone wewant to process it with
(19:22):
Absolutely, but, you know, Ithink that for those who know
that your friend or family orcoworker is going through
something, the best advice I cangive knew was having
infertility problems anddifficulties around that.
And I actually just recentlyhave found out that I'm pregnant
(19:49):
, which is a miracle and amazing.
And so I'm in this state nowwhere I just, you know, am so
excited and in the celebratoryplace, but my friend, I know, is
wrestling with infertilitystuff, and so, instead of me
trying to figure out what I canand can't share with her, around
her, I just come out and ask.
(20:11):
I just say, hey, how does itfeel for you when I bring up my
pregnancy, or how does it feelfor you when you're going
through this?
What do you need?
How can I be there for you ifany way, in any way, and so I
think, honestly, the best optionis literally just acknowledging
it and asking what would behelpful to you, what would feel
(20:33):
supportive to you, you know, doyou want me to bring up this,
this specific situation?
Is that hurtful or harmful toyou?
And so, just being honest andbringing it up, the worst thing
I would say you could do is notacknowledge it, like that's so
painful.
And so, even if they don'twanna talk about it, at least
acknowledge that there's a painin their life.
(20:54):
And hey, if you don't wannatalk about it, and that's the
best way for me to support you,then great.
And if you want me to talkabout it, and that's the best
way for me to support you, thengreat.
And if you want me to talkabout it, then great.
But I would say, find out.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Okay, can you tell us a little bit about your
resources you provide?
That would help our audience,who are also navigating the same
struggles.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, so I wrote my book called Grief, grief, loss
and the goodness of God.
For those who are listening,I'm actually giving my book away
for free as a free download onmy website.
Um, I really feel passionateabout helping resource people
with with just resources thatare going to help them, and I I
the way I wrote my book.
(21:40):
Every chapter is topical and so, um, it really deals with the
topics of the different stagesof grief that you go through and
, um, it has kind of reflectivequestions, things to engage with
, and so, uh, I wanted it to bepractical and helpful for
someone who is walking throughgrief, and so I'm giving that
(22:00):
book away as a free download onmy website.
If you visit my website, bridgetDunbarcom, forward slash grief,
and, um, you know I, I alsohave other resources If you just
go to Bridget Dunbarcom, um, onthere as well, for anyone who
just is looking for abreakthrough, you know, maybe,
maybe you're not going throughdeep, deep grief, but you're
(22:21):
going through somethingdifficult.
I have, you know, a whole.
I have a bunch of resources andservices on my website that
will help anyone who's lookingfor a breakthrough.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
What advice or actionable tips would you offer
to our listeners who arecurrently navigating grief and
loss?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I would say figure out what it is you need At
whatever stage you're at.
First of all, give yourselfpermission to be right where
you're at.
There is no good, bad, right,wrong in grieving.
Every person's experience is sounique and individual to them.
And so figure out where you'rereally at, be honest with your
(23:03):
heart and be honest withyourself, and then identify what
you need and don't be afraid toask for that.
You know so it might.
You might need some just timeby yourself and to you know,
just be able to have time withthe Lord or whatever, and not be
.
And to you know, just be ableto have time with the Lord or
whatever, and not be bombarded,you know, with messages right
now or people visiting orwhatever Like.
(23:25):
Ask for that.
Let people know what you needand give yourself permission to
receive whatever it is that youneed.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
As we get ready to end here, what would you say to
my listeners today who arewrestling with their faith in
God right now as a result oftheir suffering, as a result of,
you know, a breakthrough thatthey may need?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, I would say wrestling with God is natural
and normal process of life.
With God is natural and normalprocess of life.
You know, life is hard,relationships are hard, things
kind of hit you out of the blue.
We can't like life'sunpredictable, and so it's not a
bad thing to wrestle with Godor wrestle with your faith.
(24:14):
What I would suggest is thatyou actually wrestle with God,
that you don't shut him out, butyou go face-to-face with Him.
And I even have anotherresource on my website of just
having heart-to-heart prayerconversations with God.
And how do you do that?
And so, if you don't know, youcan start there.
(24:36):
But I think, just being honestabout where you're at, and not
shutting the door to God, butunderstanding that God is so
much bigger than what we'regoing through right now, like I
went through a whole grief thingfor I mean years.
Like my process was years longand I'm now at the point where I
can look back and see God'sgoodness.
(24:59):
Where I wasn't able to see itthen I see it now.
And now I feel like if I hadn'tgone through all the things
that I'd gone through and Godand invited God to walk with me
through that, I don't know ifI'd be where I'm at today, and I
have, you know, I'm remarried,I have a beautiful life, we're,
you know, expecting a child onthe way, and I just I'm so
(25:20):
grateful for everything I wentthrough because it formed me to
be the person I am today, and Ithink that what that took was me
really wrestling with God andletting Him be God, like letting
Him show up and show off in mylife, even if in the moment it
didn't look like he was there.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah Well, Bridget, thank you so much for coming on
the show today.
We greatly appreciate havingyou.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Thank you so much.
I'm so honored, definitely.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Well, guys and girls, thank you so much for listening
.
Again, please go and check outBridget's website and please
like and share this podcast andleave a comment on all the
podcast platforms.
And until next time, god bless,bye-bye.
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorsalEarth Show.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
Her name is Brigitte Dunbar.
She has experienced the tragicloss of her son at birth and, as
a result, is the author of thebook Grief Loss and the Goodness
(00:24):
of God.
Lizzie holds a master's degreein marriage and family therapy
and currently offers faith-basedgrief coaching.
Lizzie, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Thank you so much.
I'm so honored, definitely.
Well, I like to usually startoff the show with a icebreaker
(00:49):
question, and today is what'syour favorite movie and what
does it reveal about you?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I my favorite movie?
That's a great question.
My favorite movie actually isPride and Prejudice, and I think
what it reveals about me iswell one.
I just love the time periodit's set in.
It's just set in a time periodwhere everything is much slower.
You kind of rode horses orwalked places, and I think that
(01:20):
the characters in it reallywrestled with facing themselves
honestly, which was facing theirown pride or prejudices that
were keeping them from just thelife that they really did desire
.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So yeah, and another one is what did you want to be
when you were a kid, and why?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You know, what's funny is I actually wanted to be
a mom Ever since I was young.
I have a wonderful mom, and Ijust saw it as such a great
experience, something I wantedto experience, and so I remember
at a young age I wanted to be amom, and so that was my goal in
life.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
What's your favorite quote Quote?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, what's your favorite quote?
Oh, that's a good one.
My favorite quote?
I'm not really sure you know.
I think that it'd probably besomething along the lines of it,
honestly, probably be ascripture.
To be honest, it's my favoritequote in scripture is really,
(02:35):
you know that you'll have that Ican face that that God hasn't
already been there and conqueredfor me?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
more about yourself, about your life and about your
story of faith.
Yeah, so I, you know, I grew upfrom a young age knowing the
Lord and I loved, I loved God, Ilove Jesus and I always wanted
to go to church and so I kind ofgrew up just feeling like that
was my second home.
And so I think I grew up justreally seeking God at a young
(03:21):
age, which was a greatfoundation for me growing up.
And as I grew up I got married.
My former husband at the timebecame a pastor.
Him and I worked in the churchtogether in pastoral leadership
positions and I just found awhole other side of faith and
(03:45):
religion and I'm glad for thoseexperiences that I've had.
And since then I've kind ofcome to a point of just really
seeking out what does it looklike to serve God in everyday
life?
And now I have been a licensedmarriage family therapist for
over a decade.
I now have taken all of myexperience in the world of
(04:07):
psychology, marriage, familytherapy and also pastoral
counseling and ministry and putit together and so I serve
people at a different capacity,that I put all of that together
to really bring breakthrough forpeople and why are you
passionate about what you do?
(04:37):
And tell us a little bit moreabout what you do.
Oftentimes, you know, it'sdifficult to really create the
life that we want and also thatGod intended for us, because
there's such a battle in ourmind, and I think that's why
people seek therapy, they seekcounseling, they seek, you know,
resources in the church,pastoral support, and yet what
(05:02):
I've found is that all of thoseby themselves can sometimes be
limited, and so I have such anarray of different backgrounds,
so I've put everything into onepackage for people, and I'm
really passionate about that,because I love seeing people get
breakthrough, I mean big orsmall.
I actually think that we weredesigned to go from glory to
(05:26):
glory, and really what thatlooks like very simply is just
breakthrough to breakthrough,like one breakthrough to one
breakthrough, and breakthroughcan look big or small, but it's
just progress in life inwherever you need it, wherever
you feel stuck, and so I'mreally passionate about helping
people get unstuck.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
And so I'm really passionate about helping people
get unstuck Now, is that firstin dealing with grief, or is
that dealing with anything thatsomebody brings to you?
Hey, I'm stuck in the job.
I don't want to be here anymore.
I'm stuck in my finances.
How do I get unstuck with that?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, you know right, it's everything.
So I love working with peoplethat have experienced grief of
any kind.
I mean I wrote a book on it.
It was my whole is a big chunkof my life that I went through
deep grieving, and so I ampassionate definitely about
helping people overcome thestruggles that grief just
(06:23):
naturally brings into our life.
Overcome the struggles thatgrief just naturally brings into
our life.
But my services are foreveryone.
I work with anyone, whetherit's, you know, job performance
or just dissatisfaction,relationships or grief or loss.
You know you're going throughmaybe a life transition and you
just don't you don't haveclarity on what's next.
So I actually I do it all.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
What inspired you and motivated you to write your
book Grief, love and theGoodness of God.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, so I actually, you know, going back to always
wanting to be a mother eversince I was little, I got
pregnant and had a miscarriage,which is pretty common amongst
women, and that really kind ofturned my world upside down.
I got pregnant again shortlyafter that and carried that baby
(07:17):
all the way to 35 weeks andthen when he was born, he was
born stillborn, so he was bornnot alive, and that really
really shook my whole world.
And so I kind of experiencedtwo losses pregnancy losses back
to back, and I, you know,everything that I had believed
(07:39):
in just my faith and everythingit really I wouldn't say you
know crumbled, but it gotchallenged.
I went through a period of mylife where I was just so
depressed I didn't really knowwhat life looked like.
I had experienced other lossestoo.
(08:01):
Around that time I'd lost afamily member, experienced other
losses too.
Around that time I'd lost afamily member, my marriage and
my position at my church, justbecause I couldn't hold that
position while grieving anymore,and so in that I lost my
community with that, and sothere's so many losses that it
really kind of leveled my lifeout and I didn't know what to do
or what life looked like and Iactually really wrestled with
(08:25):
God in that time and what Irecognized was that a lot of
people go through this atvarious levels and I wanted to
put my experience in a book andalso my experiences in helping
people, because at the time too,I was also doing grief
counseling and helping peoplewalk through that, and I
(08:46):
recognized in myself and in myclients that walking through
loss like that is reallydifficult and I don't know how
many amazing or effectiveresources there were when I was
grieving.
I was looking for stuff for me.
Effective resources there were.
(09:06):
When I was grieving, I waslooking for stuff for me and I
it was just it felt like I kindof had to piece stuff together,
and so I wanted to puteverything I've learned and
experienced in a book and helpthose who are walking through it
find healing and hope on theother side of that.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
What does the you know the title of your book is,
you know, grief, Loss and theGoodness of God.
What does that?
What does the goodness of Godlook like when someone is
dealing with grief, grief andloss?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I'll say that.
But what I found, that itlooked like for me, was that in
my deepest, darkest,soul-searching hours, I found
(09:56):
God there, and I think that Irecognize that, even when life
feels hopeless and dark, thatGod is still with us.
It's just a matter ofrecognizing Him.
It's a matter of receiving Him,of inviting Him into that place
of pain, of disappointment, ofhurt, and I have so many stories
looking back on where God'sgoodness showed up.
(10:16):
I think when you're in it, youdon't really see the goodness in
the destruction of your life oreverything.
But but looking back, I I mean,god's goodness showed up in my
life in so many different ways.
I talk about it in the book,but you know, um, it like
through people, through just uh,you know so many different
(10:39):
things.
I I actually, you know, had Ihave a story one time, so I it
was maybe shortly after I hadlost my son.
I was crying at home.
I was literally just like inbed in tears because I had
actually uh, named my sonintentionally.
His name was Merit Mackay and,um, I believe that God gave me
(11:03):
that name, I wanted to use itand I felt like I was grieving
over the fact that I could neveruse his name, I could never say
his name out loud because hewasn't there.
I couldn't call him and be likehey, merit, come back here,
whatever.
And so I was just crying out toGod one day like why did this
happen?
(11:23):
Like this is so sad.
And I just remember feeling somuch heavy grief over the fact
that I could never use His name.
And I'm kidding you not, I wouldsay maybe a half an hour later
I get a knock on my door and afriend of mine, a former pastor
that I had known and worked with.
(11:45):
She visited me and said I had alot of people praying for you
and shared your story of whathappened with your son, and she
has an organization that serveswomen in need in India.
And so she had said thatsomeone in their organization
(12:05):
had reached out and wanted toknow if I would be comfortable
with them naming theirorganization after my son.
And this specific organizationwas founded on the same day my
son was born and it serves womenwho are looking for ways to
have safe pregnancy deliveries.
And so I mean like if that'snot the goodness of God, I don't
(12:28):
know what is.
I mean it's so you know, tothis day, that organization is
still thriving and serving somany women in a great capacity,
and I feel like my son's namegets to live on in that way.
And you know, honestly, onlyGod could do something like that
.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
How did your experience of God affect you
after your, or change you afteryour loss?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
My experience of God.
You know, I think what Iexperienced of God so funny.
When you go through somethingso difficult in life, it could
be anything, I mean justanything that kind of just
shakes your world up a littlebit.
You start to you eitherdistance yourself from God or
you press in, and I did both atvarious times.
(13:17):
But when I pressed in I got tosee a side of God that I
otherwise would have never beenable to see, because I think
it's like when you're in such adark place in life, you are
searching for light, you'researching for hope, you're
searching for something to kindof pick up your spirits that
(13:37):
God's strength, his pursuit ofme, his patience with me, his
love for me, like all the thingsthat I know about God.
I got to experience at a wholeother level, when I really,
really truly needed all of thosecharacteristics of God.
I got to experience them at alevel or a depth that I'd say is
(13:59):
almost impossible to experiencewhen you're not in the darkness
and you need the light.
You need God.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
What is the most difficult thing that you have to
deal with with your coachingjob or your counseling job, and
it doesn't have to necessarilybe on the grief side.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
It could be anything that you want to talk about the
most difficult thing is thatwhat you said, yeah, um.
Well, you know, for me I don'tknow if it was difficult, but I
think it was.
Well, I'll say this.
(14:42):
So you know, what I found inworking with people, especially
after my loss, was that Iexperienced a whole new level of
empathy that I don't know if Ihad previously for those who are
really walking throughdepression, anxiety, panic
attacks, like all these symptomsthat we hear.
(15:03):
I was trained to help peopleovercome these symptoms and work
through them, but when I wasgoing through them myself and
helping people overcome them, Ifound a level of empathy that I
had not experienced previously,and I think that that actually
(15:23):
benefited me.
But it also brought me to aplace of really just, I think,
meeting my clients at adifferent level than I had
before, and so it was bothchallenging but also really good
for me and for them, and so Ithink that that was probably the
biggest change that happenedfor me after my loss, when I was
(15:45):
working with clients.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
What did you find most helpful when recovering
from the walk of your of yourkids.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
What I found most helpful, other than just staying
close to the Lord, is reachingout to people.
I think oftentimes when we gothrough something really
difficult, we tend to naturallyjust as humans we tend to
isolate fear, shame, just lowenergy, I know, in grief
(16:25):
oftentimes you just don'tactually have the energy to show
up in conversations or withpeople like you used to, and so
we just naturally tend toisolate.
And I remember just a time inmy life where I recognized, okay
, I actually need people, Iactually require relationships
and in my life, where I canreceive from them, I was always
(16:48):
a giver Like I don't know if youcan relate to this, but I felt
like I always gave and I lovedgiving to relationships, I loved
having this energy and showingup for people a certain way.
And when I couldn't do that anylonger, I noticed I started to
isolate and I think the mosthelpful thing for anyone is just
don't isolate.
You know, lean into thoserelationships, whether it's
(17:11):
family, friends, spouse,coworkers, whatever.
It is that because people wantto give to you like they want,
they want to, they havesomething to give, and I think
that oftentimes it's hard ashumans for us to receive as it
is to give, and so you know, Ilearned that receiving is a gift
as well, and it's a gift thatGod wants to give to you and
(17:33):
that oftentimes comes throughother people, and so so I think
what's helpful for anyone goingthrough anything maybe difficult
, grief or otherwise is just ispulling on those relationships,
letting people pour into you,receiving the love or
affirmations or your actualgifts that people want to give
(17:54):
to you and so my community washuge in my healing process and I
definitely talk about that inthe book is just, you know,
cause, cause, relationshipschange and um, and especially
when, when you go throughdifficult things, some people
it's uncomfortable for them toto know how to show up for you,
(18:15):
and so, uh, you know you changein the process.
I think just being able toreally be present with
relationships and friendshipsand knowing you know who to
receive from is important, andallowing yourself to receive
from others.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
You touched on it a little bit and that was going to
be one of my other questionsTalked on it a little bit and
that was going to be one of myother questions.
How do people, when they know afriend or relative or you know
coworker or whatnot, is grievingor lost with someone, how
should they respond, or you know, talk to that person?
Should they, you know, shouldthey bring it up?
(18:57):
Should they just, you know,talk to them, be there for them,
be a friend to them?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, I actually love this question because a lot of
people don't ask that and Ithink that oftentimes, when we
go through something hard andisolating, we actually need
somewhere to process that.
Now, not everyone is someone wewant to process it with
(19:22):
Absolutely, but, you know, Ithink that for those who know
that your friend or family orcoworker is going through
something, the best advice I cangive knew was having
infertility problems anddifficulties around that.
And I actually just recentlyhave found out that I'm pregnant
(19:49):
, which is a miracle and amazing.
And so I'm in this state nowwhere I just, you know, am so
excited and in the celebratoryplace, but my friend, I know, is
wrestling with infertilitystuff, and so, instead of me
trying to figure out what I canand can't share with her, around
her, I just come out and ask.
(20:11):
I just say, hey, how does itfeel for you when I bring up my
pregnancy, or how does it feelfor you when you're going
through this?
What do you need?
How can I be there for you ifany way, in any way, and so I
think, honestly, the best optionis literally just acknowledging
it and asking what would behelpful to you, what would feel
(20:33):
supportive to you, you know, doyou want me to bring up this,
this specific situation?
Is that hurtful or harmful toyou?
And so, just being honest andbringing it up, the worst thing
I would say you could do is notacknowledge it, like that's so
painful.
And so, even if they don'twanna talk about it, at least
acknowledge that there's a painin their life.
(20:54):
And hey, if you don't wannatalk about it, and that's the
best way for me to support you,then great.
And if you want me to talkabout it, and that's the best
way for me to support you, thengreat.
And if you want me to talkabout it, then great.
But I would say, find out.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Okay, can you tell us a little bit about your
resources you provide?
That would help our audience,who are also navigating the same
struggles.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, so I wrote my book called Grief, grief, loss
and the goodness of God.
For those who are listening,I'm actually giving my book away
for free as a free download onmy website.
Um, I really feel passionateabout helping resource people
with with just resources thatare going to help them, and I I
the way I wrote my book.
(21:40):
Every chapter is topical and so, um, it really deals with the
topics of the different stagesof grief that you go through and
, um, it has kind of reflectivequestions, things to engage with
, and so, uh, I wanted it to bepractical and helpful for
someone who is walking throughgrief, and so I'm giving that
(22:00):
book away as a free download onmy website.
If you visit my website, bridgetDunbarcom, forward slash grief,
and, um, you know I, I alsohave other resources If you just
go to Bridget Dunbarcom, um, onthere as well, for anyone who
just is looking for abreakthrough, you know, maybe,
maybe you're not going throughdeep, deep grief, but you're
(22:21):
going through somethingdifficult.
I have, you know, a whole.
I have a bunch of resources andservices on my website that
will help anyone who's lookingfor a breakthrough.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
What advice or actionable tips would you offer
to our listeners who arecurrently navigating grief and
loss?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I would say figure out what it is you need At
whatever stage you're at.
First of all, give yourselfpermission to be right where
you're at.
There is no good, bad, right,wrong in grieving.
Every person's experience is sounique and individual to them.
And so figure out where you'rereally at, be honest with your
(23:03):
heart and be honest withyourself, and then identify what
you need and don't be afraid toask for that.
You know so it might.
You might need some just timeby yourself and to you know,
just be able to have time withthe Lord or whatever, and not be
.
And to you know, just be ableto have time with the Lord or
whatever, and not be bombarded,you know, with messages right
now or people visiting orwhatever Like.
(23:25):
Ask for that.
Let people know what you needand give yourself permission to
receive whatever it is that youneed.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
As we get ready to end here, what would you say to
my listeners today who arewrestling with their faith in
God right now as a result oftheir suffering, as a result of,
you know, a breakthrough thatthey may need?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, I would say wrestling with God is natural
and normal process of life.
With God is natural and normalprocess of life.
You know, life is hard,relationships are hard, things
kind of hit you out of the blue.
We can't like life'sunpredictable, and so it's not a
bad thing to wrestle with Godor wrestle with your faith.
(24:14):
What I would suggest is thatyou actually wrestle with God,
that you don't shut him out, butyou go face-to-face with Him.
And I even have anotherresource on my website of just
having heart-to-heart prayerconversations with God.
And how do you do that?
And so, if you don't know, youcan start there.
(24:36):
But I think, just being honestabout where you're at, and not
shutting the door to God, butunderstanding that God is so
much bigger than what we'regoing through right now, like I
went through a whole grief thingfor I mean years.
Like my process was years longand I'm now at the point where I
can look back and see God'sgoodness.
(24:59):
Where I wasn't able to see itthen I see it now.
And now I feel like if I hadn'tgone through all the things
that I'd gone through and Godand invited God to walk with me
through that, I don't know ifI'd be where I'm at today, and I
have, you know, I'm remarried,I have a beautiful life, we're,
you know, expecting a child onthe way, and I just I'm so
(25:20):
grateful for everything I wentthrough because it formed me to
be the person I am today, and Ithink that what that took was me
really wrestling with God andletting Him be God, like letting
Him show up and show off in mylife, even if in the moment it
didn't look like he was there.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah Well, Bridget, thank you so much for coming on
the show today.
We greatly appreciate havingyou.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Thank you so much.
I'm so honored, definitely.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Well, guys and girls, thank you so much for listening
.
Again, please go and check outBridget's website and please
like and share this podcast andleave a comment on all the
podcast platforms.
And until next time, god bless,bye-bye.
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