Draft Season | Big 10 Prospects & 2022 Defensive Class Review

The Draft Season crew discusses the standout players from the Michigan vs Ohio State game, take a look at the Notre Dame vs USC game, and break down the 2023 draft class in comparison to past years. 00:00 - Start 00:48 - Michigan vs Ohio State takeaways 14:09 - Standout players from the game 25:43 - Michigan running backs 33:09 - Notre Dame vs USC game 44:58 - Overall evaluation of the 2023 draft class

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
No officially open. This is Draft season John Schmult, Tony Pauline,
Eric Crocker with you Back with You Don't Forget. Draft
Season is presented by Tommy He'll Figure, a PVH brand
and an official partner of the New York Football Giants.
Hope everyone out there at a great Thanksgiving. As we
get into the end of college football's regular season. We

(00:26):
had a lot of rivalry games this week, more coming
than we get bowl season. We have invitations being accepted
to the Shrine Game, to the Senior Bowl. Will hit
all that over the next few weeks as we inch
towards the end of college football season and really into
the thick of the draft process here. But let's try
to keep everybody up to date of what's going on
in college football, so we hit the ground running when
we get to that point at the end of the

(00:47):
NFL regular season in January. Boys a couple of big
games this weekend, and we talked about rivalry weekend, and
it begins with Michigan Ohio State. And it's funny. I
was watching the game, and I was trying to keep
an eye on some of the prospect guys I watched,
and I think the funny thing, guys. Even though Michigan
came out with the wins second year in the Royal House,
state fans everywhere not happy. You know, Ohio State really

(01:08):
has more of the NFL I think caliber prospects you're
looking for that will get drafted higher. Just your guys,
general thoughts on on watching that game and and kind
of these programs and their pipeline to the NFL. Crock,
why don't we start with you? Well, I want to
start with the quarterbacks Strout because I think that's probably
the most polarizing prospect on our house state. They definitely
have other really good prospects that God that's not coming

(01:30):
out for a while. And Marvin Harrison Jr. Love watching
him play and what that looks like. Paris Johnson, I
know we'll get to him as well, and there were
some good things on film. But she say Strout, And
there's been a lot of talk about who's gonna be
the first quarterback taking uh be Bryce Young? Is he
kind of pistil in there or is it in inc
where it's just like, uh, Bryce Young, He's gonna be

(01:52):
the first guy no matter what. You Also hear other
names Straw, not strong, excuse me, Will Levice, uh and
whoever else people are talking about. But watching C. J. Stroud,
I will say this on paper, if you look at
the numbers, not a great day as a prospect, though,
and some of the things that he was able to do.

(02:13):
I came away very impressed, especially after the we rewatched.
I know he can throw the ball downfield with really
good precision, not worried about that at all. It's more
than intermediate stuff. And if he gets moved off of
his spot, what does that look like with his accuracy
and whatnot. And I saw some place where I'm seeing
him not shy away from the difficult throws. The layer

(02:34):
throws over the middle of trying to lay it over
a linebacker, throwing that two ball right, because you got
the one ball fastball, you have the three ball, which
is kind of that fade where you put you know
a lot of arc on it, and then you have
the two ball hard with an arc, and he larried
it right over a defender and what happens goes off
of his tightens hands ends up being an interception. So
everybody sees the interception that happened, but not the difficult

(02:55):
throw that he attempted, and I thought it was pretty
precise with the accuracy there. There were some throws falling away,
throwing on the money corner, routes out, routes, uh, feeling
the pressure so set up, set up, settled movements in
the pocket. I just thought there were a lot of
really good things I think translates to the next level. Well,
first of all, I mean to answer the question, I'm

(03:16):
looking at my board right now. The top ten players
in both from both of those schools six or from
Ohio State. For from Michigan. Two of those Michigan guys
are the tight ends, Luke Schumacher and Eric All all
who's been injured this year. In Schumacher who has been injured.
So yeah, I think when you're looking at it from
a pro prospect point of view, the skill tilts heavily

(03:37):
towards the Ohio State, especially when you consider that I
have Massey Smith and DJ Turner rated much higher than
most other people. As far as C. J. Stroud's concerned,
I'm gonna disagree with Eric here. I agree with what
Veric said about the physical skills. That's never been an
issue with me. As far as C. J. Strouds concerned,
but he really hasn't developed into a pass it really

(03:57):
hasn't developed into a complete quarterback. I think a lot
of that falls on the shoulders of the Ohio State
coaching staff who have not done a good job with him,
And they really haven't done a good job this year,
if you know, like you said, John, Ohio State's got better,
better pro prospects, better players, but Michigan keeps meeting them.
Michigan doesn't beat him, Michigan thumps them. And I think

(04:20):
that this was kind of we talked about this before
you go back on the last podcast. I said, because
of the way they start, in the way c J.
Stroud starts and he can't get the team in the
end zone, Michigan was gonna win the game. And that's
what happened. They had four drives, They came away with
two touchdowns and two field goals when they really should
have had at least three touchdowns, if not four touchdowns.

(04:43):
Let me, I'm gonna get four quarterbacks. Will Levis uh,
Bryce Young Hendon Hooker, Will Levis Nono. Right, let's start again.
Bryce Young Hendon Hooker, the kid from Texas youwers who
transfer from Ohio State and c J. Stroud, if you
need a game tying drive with a minute and a

(05:06):
half left in a game, which of those three quarterbacks
are you going to take? And which quarterback are you gonna? Say? Nah?
You know, I'm not too sure about him because when
I look at those four quarterbacks, even though you were
as a freshman and ripping it up in Texas, c J.
Stroud just consistently doesn't come through in the big spot. Yeah,

(05:27):
he makes some great it makes some great catch, it
makes some great throws. He's done that for the past
two years. But the same mistakes I saw Saturday against
Michigan were the same mistakes I saw when I personally
went out to see him the first game he ever
started for a house against Oregon. Doesn't see the field,
doesn't use all his targets. And again, a lot of

(05:49):
it is c J. Stroud not developing, and in my opinion,
a lot of it is just poor coaching. I mean,
the same thing Saturday I saw this said against Michigan.
I saw against Organ. He comes to the line of
scrimmage behind the center and he's looking at the sidelines
and the play clock is going down six five, four,
and they don't let him run the offense. They don't

(06:09):
let him play now. Maybe they think he's incapable of that,
or maybe they're just too iron fisted. I think part
of c J. C J. Stroud's problems is they are
not developing him properly. And you know, I think I
think right now, as far as I'm concerned, and I
wrote about this, uh you know what what it was

(06:30):
neck and neck between Rice Young and c J. Stroud
at the beginning season. I see it as a chasm
right now because I see c J. Stroud as who
probably should go back to school. And if he doesn't
go back to school and he's drafted, you may have
to send him for a year because if you put
him in there, you may ruin him. You know. Let
me say this in CROC. I'd like to get your
response to Tony there. I'll just add this and this

(06:50):
is gonna meant to sound as a slight distribute, but
it's not meant to be. You know, he to me,
he's almost like a paint by numbers quarterback, right He's
extremely accurate. He's very accurate. He throws balls in the
tight windows, crossers deep, really good throw over the football.
But I feel like everything is so in a lot
of ways schemed up for him in the wale Ohio

(07:11):
State runs their offense that I I haven't seen him
have to do some of the things that I've seen
Bryce Young do, where he just seems to do a
lot of athletic things, does a lot of stuff off platform.
You know, I don't think he's shrouds the best athlete.
He's fine, but you know, he's not, you know, a
super guy that's gonna scramble and do stuff like that
and run and again. I think he is your old

(07:32):
school traditional pocket passer, but I'm not sure that he
can do some of the other stuff to supplement the
accuracy right away to be a high level NFL quarterback. Now.
I think he's got the tools. I think that stuff
can come, but based on what I've seen at Ohio
States so far, I don't think he's there to the
same level that I've seen Bryce Young be there in

(07:54):
terms of where he is at Alabama, that's where I
am at least. Yeah, I think in the SEC you
cant challenged a lot more of the defenses there because
they play a lot more man coverage, so it's not
as uh scheme dependent in the sense of from the
from the quarterback right, like you have to see it
and you have to throw it. You have to throw
it anticipation as opposed to just being super spread out

(08:15):
against the soft defense as you see more so in
the Big ten and even like the Big twelve right
defense just a little bit softer than what you're seeing
Bryce young have to go against. And you talked about
kind of the offense and how it is structured, and
we gotta put something that one day because some of
the same questions that y'all are asking right now. I mean,
those are the same things that we're going on about.

(08:35):
Justin fields and it has the sideline never huddling up,
you know, uh, not setting any protection type things. You know, uh,
him waiting and really not throwing anticipation because of the
uh the two way goals or what they called the
the receivers have you know, downfield they make a move
off of okay, the safe to see I'm gonna go here, yeah,

(08:57):
because the option routs, but they're like downfield some routes.
So you got justin fields just sitting and now he's
holding onto the ball too long. Now everybody saying, oh man,
he holds onto the ball too long. But he's just
playing within the scheme of the offense. So I think
there is a lot of that going on with Stroud
as well, where it's supposed to be spread out and
these easy throws, and it kind of handicaps them a
little bit from a an evaluation process standpoint. So when

(09:20):
I watched him, I just look at you know, okay,
what what is he able to do? You know, what
what things do? What I like that I'm taking away
because I know he is not going to be running
any resemblance of this offense at the next level. See
and and to me, that is a problem. And since
that's what the NFL scouts do, they look at a
player and say, well, what can he do? And sometimes
they overlook the fact that this guy has problems seeing

(09:43):
the field, reading defenses, doesn't really spread the ball around,
which in my opinion, you know, is a major issue.
And again I go back to the coach and go
back to development. If I'm c J. Stroud uh and
Bryce Young enters the draft, I'm looking at maybe transferring
to Alabama to get to go get to get coached
by Bill O'Brien, Or if I'm Ohio State, and I

(10:03):
don't know what the rules are in college football. I'm
going to Bill O'Brien and or from I say, here's
here's the blank check. You write your number. We need
you to come in and develop develop c J. Stroud.
The bottom line for me and that game was, you know,
c J. Stroud got out played and beaten by what
is a sandlot quarterback in JJ McCarthy. And that's okay

(10:26):
on Saturday, but you know that's not a good thing
on Sunday. You can't get out played the way he did,
the way j. J. McCarthy did. And again I agree,
I think, you know Stroud is not not developed as
we thought, and he's making the same mistakes like I said,
as he did. You know, his first give again against
Oregon and a lot of it absolutely falls. I'm not
coaching staff. Okay, we can have the you know, let's

(10:46):
just get the quarterbacks out of the way and we'll
get back to how to say Michigan. Can you make
the argument here, guys that at some point during this
draft process, or maybe even on draft night, are we
gonna have some NFL teams or maybe a lot of
NFL teams The majority of double teams. You tell me
that could have Will Levis ranked ahead c J. Stroud
on their board and or have Anthony Richardson ranked ahead

(11:09):
of c J. Stroud on their boards. Your thoughts, Tony,
you're shaking your head. Yeah, I mean to me, Anthony
Richardson and c J Stroud times ten. I mean he's
he's c J. Stroud, I think, But Tony, real quick,
I think we're just as a much better athlete than Strattus,
so we can rely on other things, you know. But
as far I'm looking at and I would agree with that.
As far, he's better in the sense that he's better
running the ball, he's threat with his legs. But I

(11:31):
think Stroud is a better passer, and Stroud is really
deficient as a passer. And I think, you know, from
my point of view, c J. Stroudd is not NFL
ready and Richardson is that times ten, because you know,
Richardson is much more inconsistent. He makes he'll make some
incredible rows at times. Uh even some of his incompletes

(11:52):
are incredible throws, but he just he just can't get
into a groove. And I've reported a couple of times
word is an Richardson is likely to enter the drift.
I think it's a big mistake. Will he be rated
ahead of c J. Stroud? I I better well, I say,
no way, no way at all. And I don't think
will Levis is gonna be rated ahead of c J.

(12:13):
Stroudd either, because Will Levis has had a you know,
had had a really tough stretch here where he hasn't
played well. And as you said, John, you know, Will
Levice looks more like a big athlete that they put
a quarterback than a natural quarterback. So I would be
shocked if either of those guys are are rated ahead
of uh of c J. Shut truth be told. I

(12:34):
had Handed Hooker rated ahead of will Levis right before
Hooker went down with that with that knee injury. Now
he's got a decision to make, CROC. What do you think?
I well, however, said agree are Richardson. He's more of
an athlete playing quarterback than a quarterback. That's an athlete.
I'm sorry, richards is almost like almost like a Malik

(12:56):
Willis on steroids from last year, right, like a bunch
of bigger guy, you know, really a good arm, canna
run around a lot, but just doesn't know how to
play the position yet, right, And I think even Willis
was more of a pure like thrower of the football.
Uh then you know so, yeah, definitely on the athletic standpoint.
So now Willis went third round, So we're talking about
Richardson being more of a Day two type type guy.

(13:19):
I'd say just as a thrower. I would say that
because it is far too inconsistent for for my liking.
I mean, and when you are the quarterback of Florida,
which you have talent there. You have quarterbacks that come
through there and done well, even guys like you know,
Kyle Trask, who wasn't the greatest of prospects, but you
know Florida was good. Well, Florida just lost a Vanderbilt.

(13:43):
And I put a like that on the quarterback. You
gotta we talk about his athletic ability and being able
to throw. If you're doing those things, you can't lose
the Vandy. So I'm a little down on Richardson and
hope that he returns and maybe just one more year
will help him really refine a lot of things that
they want him to do. It as a passer. Yeah,
look at the Richardson goes back to school and does
refine those things. He could be a top ten peck

(14:05):
with all his tools. So d percent, I'm with you.
I think he should go back to school as well.
All right, back to Michigan Ohio State. Uh Croc. Why
don't you take it? Who was the first guy you're
looking at other than Strad when you're evaluating this game
that that maybe jumped out to you a little bit
Paris Johnson Man because I want to know where he's
at with all the tackles coming out in this class,
and it's like, well, who is the guy? And then

(14:26):
that's the thing that comes up the most, and watching him,
I could see why he was really good. I thought
he reached the next level extremely well, getting from one
block to the next. I thought his anchor was really
good when facing a bull rush. He did get beat
one time by and let me get the name Mike
Morris on an inside swim move. So I'm okay, you know,
and it's cool to see how he handles different things.

(14:48):
But just from the footwork, I thought he was good.
He didn't look to be like two off balance. I
thought he did a good job of staying on blocks
and uh combo blocks, doing really good. Moved to the
next level, and he did his unique thing where he
kind of jumps out and attacks guys as opposed to
just getting your normal kickstep. Yeah. Yeah, so he works

(15:09):
towards the guy and then gets his hands on. I
thought he did a really good job of that consistently
not saying there weren't any reps where he's like, oh man,
maybe lost that one, but I'd say nine out of
tam reps he was. He was pretty on. Yeah, if
I had one guy, well, there were a couple of
guys I haven't like Luke Whippler, the center for Ohio State.
In fact, he's my number one rated next level prospects

(15:31):
at the position. At the center position, I mean he's smart,
he's tough. You look at the Ohio State, They've put
a lot of real good centers, uh into the NFL.
I think Whipplers the next the next guy he grades
out as his second day picked for me. Uh, fundamentally
very sound, blotched, with great leverage, stay square, is able
to power guys off the ball, and he's able to

(15:51):
seal them with outstanding body position. Really a real good center,
and I think you gotta look at Corne Elis Johnson
as well. I mean he would. He was a guy
who was highly rated by scouts coming into the season.
They thought he was a potential Day two pick. Really
didn't have the year that people expected as far as
productions concerned. Really kept Michigan in that game in the

(16:14):
first half when it looked like Ohio State was gonna
blow him out with two really big long receptions. And
now you know what we saw Saturday from Cornelias Johnson
is what scouts had expected all year long. Clarius Johnson
kind of allowed Michigan to win that game. Right. How
State comes out to start that game, they said, when

(16:35):
I'll let you guys run the football, we're in a
stack the box. You're not gonna run it. And Michigan
had to loosen him up Croc and they went to
Cornelius Johnson deep a couple of times and he's kind
of a loosen up the defense, and then Michigan was
able to run the ball a little bit more in
the second half. Yeah, he did. He won over the top.
And I was sitting at the blackjack table watching the
game out in Phoenix, Arizona, and I'm like wait, I

(16:57):
started talking to the dealer I'm like, this is not
supposed to be Michigan's I'll Aaron and out throwing the
ball downfield offensive explosion in the first half, and he said, yeah,
I would have taken the under in this game. So
we got into that conversation. But it was good to
see them push the ball down the field and do
those type of things and see Johnson have uh that
type of success. You know, everybody knows heading into this game.

(17:17):
You know the receiver to watch for over at Michigan
is uh blanking on his name but Umber eight Ronnie Bell. Yeah,
Bill right, So Bill has been He's been the guy.
He's the problem. He's the one that everybody's looking at.
But I thought the other receiver played off from extremely
well making players, breaking tackles, uh, beating guys out of
this slode. I thought he did a really good job
having a two way go in his stem on it

(17:39):
before going post, turning the safety around. A lot of
good things there, and you see that ability to be
able to win with speed vertically down the field. Tony,
you mentioned um Whippler, what do you think of Michigan
center olaver team? And he was kind of you know,
the announcers just kept throwing out there during the game
up best center in college football. And I'm just curious
if if you guys agree with that take. And then

(18:00):
I know Dwan Jones, the other offensive tackle for a
house date, A lot of guys like to Yeah, he's
a transfer from Virginia. I've written about him a couple
of times this year. You know, we talked about earlier
Anthony Richardson, you know, being a great athlete, but not
being a great uh great quarterback, although a tome although
a team is a great center, who's not a great athlete,
And what's gonna happen with him throughout the draft processes.

(18:22):
He's not gonna run a fast forward, he's not gonna
jump behind the vertical jump. But you watched the film
watching going back to the Virginia days, and he is
just an outstanding center. He's got decent size. He was
not even graded by scouts coming into the year, scouts igport.
And now you're looking at a guy that's probably a
late round pick. He's one of those guys. You know,
teams like the New England Patriots have a way of

(18:44):
grabbing these offensive lineman, these interior offensive lineman in the
sixth and seventh round and then they go on to start.
You know, in the NFL. For he was the guy
that drafted from Michigan Tony the big fat guy, and
I actually liked him. He's three. He was like a
three fifty pound guy. I don't member his name. I
gotta look it up now, um. And he is that
sort of guy and they do it well at center.

(19:06):
So that's what's gonna happen, uh with the Michigan center.
He's probably gonna be a six seventh round pick. You know,
he's gonna not have real good testing numbers at the
Combine or his Pro Day, but you know some team
is gonna find a way to fit him in. He
gets the most romis ability. He's smart, he's fundamentally sound,
and he it's you know, forget about just Saturday against

(19:28):
the House State. He's played like that all year long.
He is that good, great football player, not a real
good athlete. I'm looking at. I gotta I gotta get
the name. It's killing me. Um. Let's say, oh, Michael
Owen you there we go? Yeah? Yeah, he was the
guy talk loved him coming out and he had drafted late,
but it he end up being a really good player.

(19:48):
He was like three pounds, but he could move. He
was like a dancing bear. You know that that term
dancing bear, That's what he was like. And it was
just the fact that he was who big why he
got knocked out. But you knew he could play. Although
a team is a little bit different in the sense
that he's not the biggest guy, is not the greatest athlete,
but boy, could he play football. You got anything with
Dwan Jones, Tony or no. Juwan Jones is to me

(20:11):
is a lesser version of the kid that came out
of Minnesota last year. Uh, he was playing with the
Ravens right now, the h I think he's kind of
a step below that. I think he's a middle round pick.
I mean he's a big, massive guy. He's strictly a
right tackle. He doesn't have the athleticism the kid from

(20:32):
Minnesota had last year. I think you know, if you
if you're running a power gap type of offense, he's
a guy that you look at in the fourth maybe
the third round, and you stick him at right tackle. Yeah.
My my notes on him is big body, there's a
move as well as Johnson. All right, So that that
was what initially jumped out. That's my first note that

(20:54):
I wrote down about him. We're watching him against Michigan
as Lily and I'm see you go a year to
year and then you forget the names of some of
these guys that come out in the draft. He must
be Daniel Fileta. There we go. Yeah, I loved watching
m and obile man. He was fun, absolutely, and he
was very athletic. But you know, people people think that

(21:17):
these big, huge guys that are athletic and go early.
You know, you look at the league. Yeah, you want
a big offensive line, but they want guys that are
super mobile, you know, super quick, and Dewan Jones really
doesn't fit that mold. All right, Let's let's go to
some of the skill guys here. I'm curious to get
your take, and then we'll hit a couple of defensive guys. Um,
we haven't seen Jackson Smith and Jigbill all year? Where

(21:39):
is he? Tony Eric? Like, is he still gonna come out?
I mean he's putting nothing on tape this year, really
hardly at all. You know, people thought he'd be the
number one prospect. It hasn't turned out to be your
wide receiver class. So maybe he would still be a
top two three guy off the board, maybe the top guy.
I know, you guys, tell me where is he? Do
you think he's still gonna come out? And and Kroc
will start with you, like, how do you even evaluate

(22:00):
where he is? Giving his lack of playing time. I
thought this was a very, very big year for him.
A lot of people were mocking him in the top
ten heading into this year. Right still between him and
the kid out of the l s you, it was like, boutet,
no matter what they do this year, they're going top ten.
And I'm calling out one of my guys, Quincy Avery,
right and we're gonna hold Quincy Avery to this quarterback trainer.

(22:22):
But he said, man, he didn't have to step on
the field. He's gonna be a top ten pick regardless.
I'm not certain about that because I still have questions
about the overall athleticism. I know how good of a
college receiver he can be. You watch where he worked
out of more of the slot, so you have these
favorable matchups you're playing out in space against linebackers and safeties,

(22:43):
and I thought he did some really good things with
right after Cash, I had some questions about just the
legit field speed, like the ability to truly run away
from guys. You watch Olava, you watch Garrett Wilson, and
I know what they said. It sounds like the little
brother thing, right when the when the big brother says,
oh yeah, but watch my little breath. He's he's better
than all of us, right, And I think there might
have been a little just they're just talking to that

(23:05):
because I don't see the same level of pure separation
vertical speed as I did with some of those guys.
And I think there are questions right now. Is you know,
we're talking about him being a potential top ten pick.
He's not the best receiver prospect on his team right now.
Even if he played this year, I still think markt
Arrison Jr. Who can't come out this year and uh

(23:26):
book a book, Uh a book. Yeah, there might be
people that like those guys even more so. I wish
I could have seen him this year just to see, like, man,
has he's taken that next step from an athleticism standpoint
and did he just need Alave and Garrett Wilson Those
were gonna be questions obviously in the Bowl game last year,
did not need them, and he went absolutely bonkers, but

(23:49):
I want to see him do that again, and obviously
just for the fans. Under said Marvin Arison Junior not
draft eligible this year, and I can't tell these college websites.
Is a book a draft eligible this year, Tony or
does he had not have or does he me one
more year before he can go into the game. I
think he's only two years removing school, so he's not
a draft eligible. Getting back to Smith, and I like
him a lot. I mean he was I had him

(24:09):
graded higher than c. J. Stroud coming into the season.
I think he does a lot of things very well.
Does he come out you missed the almost the entire
season due to I believe it was a hamstring. Hamstring, right,
you gotta be nuts if you come out, because you know,
if it was a knee issue, if it was a
joint issue, that's one thing, but persistent hamstring issues that

(24:31):
is that is a major red flag. I think I
think c J. Stroud has best served to go back
for a year. I think Smith and Jim has to
go back for another year, and basically Ohio State will
probably be playing with the same offense except for a
couple of offensive linemen because I expect Paris Johnson even
Whippler to Uh enter the draft. Uh, So you could

(24:53):
basically have the same skilled players there with the quarterback
for Ohio State. I think it would be insanity for
Smith and Jib to uh and to the draft. You
gotta remember, one thing that now plays into this whole
decision making is the n I L process because a
lot of these players, you know, Granted, we saw the
Penn State offensive tackle say he's going back for another year,

(25:14):
and he basically at talking to people pushed aside thirty
million dollars or guaranteed money for whatever he's going to
get in the n I L. But some of these guys,
if they're on the fence as to whether or not
they're going to come back, and they're able to get
an attractive n I L offer from route, from the
school or from somebody else, Uh, that makes it more

(25:34):
enticing for them to go back to school. I think
that's what Ohio State's probably gonna try and do with Smith,
Smith and Cuba as well as c J. Stroud A.
What do you guys think of the two Michigan running backs.
Donovan Words obviously had a couple of really huge runs
in the second half. He screams, like, fifteen touches the
game in the NFL to me, catches the ball speed guy.

(25:56):
Corum obviously is more of the workhorse for Michigan. Your
guy s thoughts on those two guys, Tony, when we started, you, oh,
corm Is Corms also gonna be a fifteen touch guy
in the NFL. I mean he's only five seven, he's
under two pounds. I don't think he's that he's that
big of a guy. Uh. So, I don't know how
he's gonna carry the ball twenty five times in the NFL.
I mean, they played well, and it works well there

(26:18):
because the quarterback can do so many different things. Even
during that game he saw the jump pass at one point,
so it works very well. I think both of those
guys are more Day three type of situational, third down
type backs, uh for the NFL. The thing I like
about Quorum is really just his ability. They can they

(26:38):
give him thirty plus touches in the game and not
worried about it at all. Now, eventually we did see
him get tackled awkwardly hurt his knee. I think that limited,
you know, any touches in his previous game. But what
I've been seeing from him throughout the year, he has
really good initial explosiveness. He doesn't have quite that pure longspeed.

(26:59):
But if he is a guy that you think, you know, hey,
we just want to give him, you know, a few
touches here and there, maybe he does get just you know,
thirteen and fifteen touches in the game. I think he
can be a consistent four and a half yard per
carry type guy. Again, I won't spring off those huge
runs uh and be able to outrun these NFL defenses.
But I think he plays strong, he has really good

(27:19):
contact balance. I think those are things that will translate
in the short game in the NFL. And what do
you guys think of Edwards? And is and I tried
to figure this out too. Again it's hard to tell
these college websites. Is Edwards draft eligible? And your guys
thoughts on uh Crock your thoughts on Edwards? Well, I'm
not sure if he's draft eligible. And it is weird
because I think a lot of things are thrown off

(27:40):
because of COVID. Yeah, I think COVID. They didn't. They didn't,
they didn't when the COVID happened, They didn't count that year.
For people say there are some people where it says
there are sophomore, but they could be a junior and senior,
and you know they read shirted, then there, this and that.
So it has thrown a lot of things off. But
he's definitely more of the explosive back. Reminds me a
little bit more of like Ronald Jones when he was

(28:02):
coming out of USC kind of that. You know that
long strider has that nice long speed, able to outrun
the pack twelve. We see him able to outrun the
big ten. Uh. I think from if they complement each
other extremely well, and I think that's the type of
dynamic that NFL teams are gonna want. That guy that
can really hit it one cut and he's gone, then

(28:23):
the other guy that can kind of pound away and
grind away and get it more of that short yardage.
He's actually a little bit bigger than uh than karm.
But what you gotta do is he is actually a
true uh, true sophomore. So like what I do is
I will go to the player's bio at the website
for the school. So when you go to see Donovan Edwards,
you see that he was actually a true freshman in

(28:43):
two thousand twenty one, never red shirted in two thousand
twenty And it's funny because some schools will will basically
factor in that extra year and make a junior or sophomore,
while of the schools don't. You just gotta do a
little bit of investigative work. But yeah, he is actually
absolutely explosive. I mean, he's a guy who can break
off the long runs from the line of scrimmage, a

(29:04):
little bit bigger than than core Um. But you know,
like Marvin Harrison Jr. Not draft eligible, so we're gonna
have to wait a little while on him. Yeah, and
he'll get more opportunities with if you know, Koram does
come out and he gets more of more of the
load there as well. All Right, you guys can I'll
leave the field open either this game specific or just
generally defensive prospects Ohio State in Michigan. You guys can
just throw names at me. What do you think, croc Tony,

(29:27):
either one of you guys can step up to the plate.
I thought Zach Harrison played relatively well. It was a
second week in a world that Zach Harrison, the defensive
been from Ohio State who was kind of quiet for
most of the year, really stepped it up. If you
watched the game the week before, he basically won that
game for Ohio State with two sacks against a real
good offensive tackle from Maryland by the name of Jalen Duncan,

(29:48):
one which was caused the interception which put Ohio State ahead.
I thought he had a lot of moments. He's an
athletic guy. He's a toll guy's gotta get a little
bit stronger. He's got that long than frame. But he's explosive,
he's tough. I think he's really put the pedal to
the medal of the past couple of weeks. Zach Harrison.
I thought he had a lot of good moments against
what was a good what is I should say, a

(30:09):
good offensive line from Michigan, great crop. Yeah, Mike Morris.
You know, he's the guy that I talked about earlier
and I really liked when he beat Paris Johnson inside
on the move. I think outside that he tried to
win a little bit more with speed around the edge
as opposed to having a move and then he would
just kind of go to more of a bulrush. So
I'm looking for more of a pass rest plan from him,

(30:31):
see if we can kind of get that down the line.
But overall he's big body guy and you see all
the ability but just still trying to figure it out.
Kind reminds me a little bit um as far as
the figuring out part, not body and all that. But boy,
in my Faith last year coming out in Minnesota, one
of the knocks on him was he doesn't have a
pass rest plan, doesn't have a pass resh plan. And

(30:52):
when I watched Morris, that was one of the things
I realized as well, you didn't see a whole lot
of movies. It was can I beat him around the
edge with speed? And then if I can't, then okay,
I gotta come back on in the ball rush And
that was it. There was no counting to it. And
the thing about Morris, like my Faith, he comes out
of a three point stands and stands over tackle, so
you know he's a he's a real good athlete. I

(31:13):
know you love watching the corners croc any thoughts on
DJ Turner, the Michigan cornerback, and a lot of people
are high on him. I watched him. There wasn't that
much to take away from it because they played kind
of soft in that game. There was just a lot
of off coverage. I didn't see him really truly be
able to challenge himself, but you know, there were some
nice moves I didn't note. Then he had to play

(31:33):
against on his switch release and so he was a
man coverage and on how State they did a switch
release on the guys. He was able to fight through
that flatten off the route and then the receiver, Marvin
Hirison Jr. He kind of dropped it. But I get
the defensive backs on credit there because he was there
to distract him. I think that's an overlook uh part
of playing who in the back position. Some of it

(31:54):
is just distracting the receiver and throwing off his concentration
and just to get a drop. And I thought he
did that Kroc with the defensive back propaganda. We like that,
Tony What's here? Zie Smith? Watch at Yeah. I mean
I didn't see him on the field, and I know
I think I think he finished with like four tackles,
but I was looking for him, and it seemed like

(32:15):
they rotated those guys in and out a lot. But
again he was going up against Luke Whippler, the center
from how State, who I talked about earlier, who I
thought had a real good game. What's the stock watch?
Are we looking first round for for for Mazie Smith
still or is that one of those guys that that's
kind of different depending on the evalua to your talk
to that's what it is. I mean, I've heard Scott

(32:35):
told me, yeah, he's a fourth, fifth round. There's some
people have told me he's a second rounder. I mean,
my affection for Matt Mazzy Smith has been talking. We
talked about that the first uh the first show of
the year when we had Bruce Felman on about how
much I like him. So it'll be interesting to see
where it eventually pans out for fort Smith. And by
the way, the player that Tony mentioned previously, the Penn
State offensive tackles Olie Fashan, and we talked about him.

(32:58):
It was either last show or the show pro or
I don't quite remember. Nineteen years old, he's had a
heck of a year. A lot of people thought he
might be the first offensive lineman off the board. It
could be a top ten pick, So I'm going back.
Is really a big deal, all right? Notre Dame USC guys,
let's let's touch on that very quickly, and Kroc will
start with you because we're still trying to kind of
fuel out this wide receiver class. I feel like and

(33:20):
Jordan Addison was one of the guys coming into the
year that had a lot of production and I think
that's continued at USC. How do you see him? Is
is he in the in line here for being the
first wife receiver off the board? Your thoughts on him
as a player, we'll see there's the first wife receiver.
We know he wanted to bulloting the calf board a
year ago. But he's a guy that USC definitely. There's
different things that free him up and get the ball

(33:41):
in his hands where the screens, Uh, they'll do you know,
pick rows, different things to get the ball in his
hands in space. I think he does a good job
of that. To run off to catch U there. I
think you know how much puresby does he have? Would
that be a question? You know? I haven't been able
to see him just run straight fly routes and run
by defensive back. Not saying you need who I think
it does all the other things well, Um, he drops

(34:02):
his hips very well, works back to the ball, good
natural hands. He did have a fumble got overturned and
fumble I don't know, but Foskey and I know we'll
gets to him. But a great pursuit play by Foskey
to chase him down from the back. I mean it
was like forty yards down the field. So I think
it does a lot of really good things. It's gonna
be interesting to see who factors in what when it

(34:25):
pertains to this wide receiver class, because guys are so
much different and there's not that just sure fire wide
receiver won this class. In my opinion, I want to
see how big Jordanastion is because he looks like smaller
guy looks like yeah, absolutely, you know, and that's gonna
kind of reduce I mean, I love him as a receiver,
but uh, you know how big is he? And where

(34:45):
are you going to use him at the next level,
you know, with all the receiver screens and everything else.
Now you know why he transferred to you USC. I mean,
and it's great to see that USC has got its
mojo back because you watch that game and they're they're
very chatty on the field, you know, they they're they're
very confident themselves, and it's good for college football. When
USC is doing well. Uh, and he's buying for national championships. Um,

(35:08):
but I like Addison a lot. Again, you know, I
had some Nixon bruises this year which put him on
the sideline, which again goes back to body type and
how big he is. I still I think he's going
to be a first round choice if he enters the draft.
I expect him to enter the draft. Where he goes
in the first round, I think will be dictated what
happens throughout the pre draft process, combines project workouts, things

(35:31):
like that. Obviously, not to connect these guys just because
they both went to USC, but there are a few guys,
a couple of guys that he really remind me of.
One Robert Woods, obviously, former USC receiver. Not that just
he's not gonna blow you away with that athleticism, but
he was really good there. And Mark's Lee and Markus
Lee before the knee injury. Right before the knee injury happened,

(35:52):
I mean, he was like the best receiver in college football.
He had knee injury kind of slowed him down a
little bit and he didn't have their pro career you
thought he would have. But are really good for the receiver.
Not sure he wins vertically down the field as much
as what we saw from Markisley, but you see a
lot of talent. They're very fluid mover as well. It's funny,
Crock you go back. You mentioned Markisley. I remember in
that draft. I went back and watched I think it

(36:13):
was his sophomore tape right that was pre nijury for
lay and I was going back and forth in my
rankings with him and Beckham and I'm like, both these
guys can move like it was. The athleticism was crazy.
And then Lee just was never the same after he
had that injury, which was too bad. All right, Um
Kayla Williams, I know he's a couple of years off.
Is real deal? Are you guys will buy in? I

(36:34):
mean he looks like it. He's got a quarterback coach.
He's got a quarter a quarterback coach there that has,
you know, developed a lot of guys and people to
see quarterback by the life of the people that don't know, uh,
you know, and and Lincoln Riley. So everything seems to
be head in the right direction for him. He's definitely uh,
he's showing progress. He's a much better quarterback now than

(36:55):
when he was a year ago at Oklahoma when he
had the same coach. Uh so, and that's what you
like to see. I mean, obviously probably gonna be the
front runner for the highman. Uh you know, once the
two thousand twenty three mock drafts are over and people
are mocking for the two thousand twenty four he's gonna
be the name that's uh that. I think it's unanimously
the first pick of the draft. I think the signs

(37:17):
are good. Let's wait and see what happens moving forward. Yeah,
I think it has definitely helped him being able to
stay in that office for another year. I think last
year they were lying a little bit more on his
athleticism more so than a quarterback, and I think now
we see him taking that next step as a thrower
of the football. Is really fun watching him, and I
saw it on social media. I'll fall into the trap

(37:38):
a little bit as well, just because what it looks like.
But man, Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech right where there's
a lot of this off script type stuff, off platform
type throws. Not sure he has quite the arm of
Patrick Mahomes, but he definitely has a really good arm,
but you see him try some of the tight window stuff.
I would say decision making, that's something that he definitely

(38:00):
it can improve one as was and still it is
the case for Patrick Mahomes is the great Patrick mahomes Is.
He still throw a lot of interceptible balls. I'd see
some of that, well it was, and just sometimes just
running around, which again you see from Patrick Mahomes as well. Again,
Patrick Mahomes m v P, Super Bowl MVP. It worked
for him. We'll see if down the line could work
for Kayla Williams as well. But there's a little flare

(38:21):
to his game. I think it's kind of fun to
watch any other USC guys that really jumped out to
you guys obviously USC with that big winning over Notre
Dame on Saturday Night. Well, I mean to tweet tweet
Pillow too. Uh, the job well done. There you go,
Thank you who. I think he was kind of quiet
in that game. But he's had a monster year and

(38:41):
I'm told he's gone to enter the draft. You know,
where are you gonna play with the next level. It's
gonna be an interesting evaluation. I haven't done a lot
of film work on it, but I was on the
phone with somebody on the West coast yesterday and they
think he's a short fire first rounder. So that's gonna
be interesting to see. Micky becked in the court that
transfer quarterback from Colorado has played well, as has Shane Lee,

(39:05):
the linebacker who transferred from Alabama. Shane Lee looked like
the next big time linebacker to come from the Alabama
program in two thousand and twenty, was non existed, basically
disappeared in two thousand one, took his game to USC.
He's not back to the level where where I saw
him a two thousand and twenty, but he's playing productive football.

(39:25):
That's a good sign. So USC has got it going
on or or or you could jump to Notre Dame,
whatever you want to do. Well, I was gonna say
two e two put pollute um, he's been when you good,
We're telling about a guy who double digits acts right now.
He's very disruptive. But I agree, where where is he

(39:47):
going to play at the next level? Right This is
a guy who it almost feels like a tweeter. Is
he like a three four end? Or maybe he can
fit in this new NFL style of defensive end who
everybody's not gonna be you know, von Miller off of
the edge. You might need a guy that can be
a little bit more stout. Uh. And teams are going

(40:07):
more towards that too high defense, so you need kind
of bigger bodies there. He's kind of this tweeter. He's
not two pound guy, but he's also not that two
fifty two sixty pound guy that flies off of the edge.
So um, well we'll see how that dress a But yeah,
I am here, and as well as that, people really
like him for a first round. Yeah. And when I

(40:28):
when the person told me yesterday they think first round
for him, and I was surprised. They said, listen, he
can rush the passer. He's a big body guy for
a pass rusher, and you look at this year's class
and there are not a lot of big body pass rushers,
which is what their justification was for him going in
the first round. One other guy from US you got
to mention Andrew Warhees, who's played terrific at guard all season.

(40:50):
Played tackle last year that kicked him inside. He's actually
a big body blocker who looks better in a confined area.
Played left guard. I think he's had a terrific year
look really good against Notre Dame, as he has all
season long. Hey, Giant fans, don't miss a second legacy
game in MetLife Stadium on Sunday, December four. If you're
a Giants fanning you're listening to them. Of course, this
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(41:12):
will be in their throwback legacy your leuniforms from the
eighties and nineties when they take on the Washington Commander's
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We branded a Throwback Designs exclusive collectible pennant for the
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Go to Giants dot com slash tickets to claim yours today.
Michael Mayer here, guys, still first tight end off the board?
You think in first rounder tone, I mean he looked tremendous.

(41:37):
I mean you know you go back. I mean he
and this Giant fans were watching who left. He reminds
me of a more athletic version of Marc Barvaro. Those
are big words. I mean a guy who you watch
them shoddy get up, getting up in a crowd of
three or four USC defenders coming away with the reception,

(41:58):
taking up pounding holding the ball. I mean he looks
like a big body tight end, a very athletic, big
body tight end. And I was one who was kind
of hesitant. You know, he looked like he really didn't
want to block, and he you know, he wasn't interested
if the play wasn't in in his vicinity. He's done
well this year and I really thought he stood out
against USC looked really really good. Yeah, I've been very

(42:20):
impressed with just his ball skills. Right this is a
guy who I continue to watching my how's this big
I getting open? How's he getting open? He always gets open.
He all he does a really good job with the
way he uses his body that shield himself. He should
shield the ball away from defenders. Really nice soft hands,
hands catcher type guy. Uh. You know you talked about
the blocking and things like that, but man as a

(42:43):
pass catcher, I'm still confused with how he gets open
so much with how he moves. But he's been tremendous
and I definitely would assume that right now, he's a
lot most people is tied in one. He has that
Jason Witten like he's not running fast but he's always
open type of vibe, right, right. But I think when
the man kind of fast coming out of Tennessee, he did,

(43:03):
he just didn't look like he was running fast. He
looked what he looked like, he was low, but he
just got separation. Well, oh, Jason Witten, That's that's kind
of what it looks like. Jason was good, right, He'd
running the spots, turn around, sell guys away from the ball,
catch the ball, like you know, he does some of
those things that it kind of looks a little bit like,
oh with who was still good? Old woman was still good,
you know. I mean, I don't even think it's a

(43:25):
question that Michael Marri's the number one tight end. There's
no one close to him. You got to say, I'm
a porter from Iowa who's really good. I don't know
how fast he's gonna run. Keep on him. A Tucker
Craft from South Dakota State who's an outstanding tight end.
Watch him as South Dakota State goes through the Division
uh the FCS playoffs. He's my number one rated FCS prospect.

(43:47):
But as good as these guys are, they just they
just don't measure up to Mayer. And you mentioned Isaiah
folks Key before Croc your thoughts, Oh yeah, I mean
he's a guy that likes to stand up over the outside,
you know, rush from there. You see the body, you
see the build, you see the athleticism, all that jumps off.
You see the pursuit on the playof talked about him
chasing down Addison from behind and forcing that ball out

(44:09):
of there. You know, a lot of good things that
I think people are gonna really like. I'm I can't
wait to dive more into this film, but I did
like what I saw from the game against usc which
was tough because you got a quarterback that's running around, scrambling.
He's not just standing in the pocket playing with timing
and rhythm, and he's not playing out you with expecting
to play. That's pretty difficult on a defense alignment that's
trying to just get to the quarterback. My number two

(44:32):
rated a Notre Dame prospect after Michael Mayer. I mean,
a guy who's very athletic is crop Shaid comes out
of a three point stands, stands over tackle, covers a
lot of area on the field, much more than a
guy that just pins his ears back and rushes up
the field. He does a lot of good does a
lot of things very well on the football field. I
have him as a early second round pick if you

(44:54):
have just the draft. Could he go first round? I
think possibly with good workouts. Alight, we're gonna get to
a little review of the defensive rookies in the NFL
from class, But just a general statement for you guys,
And I know Tony you're probably more of the historian
on this sort of stuff. You've been doing this for
so long. I feel like as we've gone along this season,
some of the guys that we thought were short fire

(45:15):
top picks maybe haven't done as much as we would
have liked. Overall, just the quality of this class, especially
near the top in the first round, how would you say,
at this point a year it compares to kind of
what we've seen in years past. Well, I mean I
think it's difficult, and I think it's difficult because you know,
when years passed, rookies would sit for half a year,

(45:39):
would sit for a year. I mean you're talking we're
with the New York Giants. I mean Bill Parcels literally
used to rent shirt his rookies each year for the
most part. So I think it's difficult, and I think
these guys come in with, you know, just crazy expectations.
And remember players at the top of the draft war
basically offensive lineman, cornerbacks, even defensive lineman, where their errors

(46:05):
oftentimes are very glaring and over, you know, basically gloss
over some of the good things that they've done. I
don't think it's been exceptionally great, but you know, it's
not like two thousand thirteen where it looked like it
was gonna be a disaster from the onset. So I've
seen some good things. I've seen some promise. You know
that there have been some you know, you look at

(46:25):
the high state receivers and doing very well in the
NFL overall. You know, sometimes you just gotta give it
time and wait and see how these guys do. How
about the upcoming class, guys, your opinion on that as
an overall class heading in at this point of year,
is it just too early in the process to really
have a good feel for how strong this overall upcoming

(46:47):
class is gonna be? In crop your thoughts. I think
a lot of people were waiting on this quarterback class
saying this was a good one, and then some guys
fell off right, like will Levis hasn't played to the
level that a lot of people thought he would. You
have seen some guy is starting to get a little
bit better as the year goes on. Dtr Over at
U c l A. Uh, you got Spencer Rattler, He's
finishing this season strong. Uh. DJ Lake that has not

(47:10):
been good at all down the stretch here where I
thought middle of the year he started getting a little
bit better. I thought he's hitting his groove, finding his mojo,
and then all that did would lead to him eventually
getting benched and looking not very good against South Carolina,
that team that they probably shouldn't beat by two scores.
So uh, everyone said that this was the quarterback class,
and I think they're gonna do the same thing next

(47:31):
year when you have Kayleb Williams coming out, When you
have Drake May the kid out of human Ce coming out,
a lot of people gonna like him and maybe pencil
him in as the number one quarterback out of that class.
So I think you can see a little bit of that,
you know, And and I think that's wrong because what
happens is it happens everybody looks at the quarterback class
and the strength of a strength of it. Yeah, you know,

(47:53):
there's you got twenty two positions on the field, plus
plus special teams, and it's wrong. I think it's to
go back. It'd be interesting because I think a year
ago when we were talking about this time, I think
I probably had only fourteen or fifteen guys with short
first round first round grades on my board. I'm looking
at my board right now, right now, I've got fourteen

(48:14):
guys with shot fire first round grades. That will change.
And what I mean is, obviously you're gonna have thirty
two first rounds, but only how many of them right
now deserve first round grades. I've got fourteen that will
obviously change as we go through the process because guys
will fall off, a lot of guys will move up, workouts,
Senior Bowl practices, shrine will practices, which which which means

(48:38):
a lot. I compare it pretty much to last year's
draft in the sense that you've got a lot of
good defensive players at the top. You've got Will Anderson
of Alabama, Brian Brise of Clemson, Miles Murphy Clemsons who
I like, Jalen Carter of of Georgia. You know a
couple of receivers at the top with with Jalen Hyatt
uh So, I I think it's very comp horrible to

(49:01):
last year's draft, and I like last year's draft. I
think we're not gonna see as many quarterbacks go in
the first round as people had predicted literally up until
the week before the two draft. All Right, guys, if
you like the show, go download the Giants TV app.
You can find it for free on Amazon, TV, Roku,

(49:22):
wherever you stream your TV shows. It's free. Make sure
you check it out. You also get game highlights on
the Man Direct Video Everything you want. Again, check it
out on any of those free services, or again on
the Giants mobile app. Alright, guys, let's take a brief
look we did offense last week. Let's look at the
defensive class here coming out in the rookie class in
the NFL right now, and I think Kroc, we gotta

(49:44):
start at source Gardner. I mean, this guy is playing
like a season pro. If he gives up a catch,
you know, people showing on on YouTube like it's a
big deal. This guy's a rookie and guys just aren't.
It's also the point where teams aren't throwing at him
now he's playing so well. I mean he could. We
all thought he was one of the best players coming
out last year. I thought it was crazy Huston end

(50:04):
up picking Stingly over him, right if if I remember correctly,
which I thought was crazy at the time they did.
But Sauce Gardner has had a hell of a first
year in the NFL. Yeah, he's been pretty good and
exceeding a lot of expectations. I mean, he came in
with kind of that swagger and people are like, Okay, yeah,
this is CB one. You saw what he did at college.
But you can say, well, maybe is it the level

(50:24):
of competition that he consistently played against that made it
to where he didn't give up a touchdown throughout his
entire college career and all those things, But it has
translated to the NFL, and you're right, anytimes you give
up one catch, everybody wants to show that right because oh,
maybe it was a big play or he was in
the area. But overall he's been playing the streaming well
with our confidence, as as some other cornerbacks from these
class as well. I think Stingley is one that's kind

(50:46):
of having a little bit slower start treat women he's
one of the top guys in interceptions in the NFL.
He was a fifth round pick at U T. S A,
And he was a guy that I thought and a
lot of other people like man guy has to hone
in on playing the cornerback position. He's just long, lean guy.
But he's the most amazing athlete in this class. And
you've seen him be able to put some of that
on display. But you know, still, I'd say overall, at

(51:11):
least from the quarterbacks standpoint, I think they've done a
really good job in the ground running. You, Tony, if
there was ever a spotlight on a player for this
is why you scout traits and you don't scout performance.
That's Terek Wiwan. You watched him at a low level
of college football last year and looked like any of
what he was doing, and it was a converted wide receiver.
He couldn't play the balls, committing defensive pass interference penalty

(51:33):
against like guys that are nowhere near his athletic caliber.
He goes to Seattle, he gets coached up, he learns
how to play the position. Phenomenal rookie year for him,
and that's the key. He went to Seattle and there
were franchises that just know how to develop certain positions.
You know, you think quarterback, you think Andy Reid, you
think Shanahan, you know you think cl Seahawks, you think

(51:56):
defensive backs. They just have a knack for making those
big athletic guys and getting them to play incredibly well
at the cornerback position. So I think it's it was
the perfect fit between franchise and player. I don't know
that Tarik Willing is going to be doing as well
as he does on any other franchise. I think it

(52:17):
was just a perfect match. Getting back to a mod
Gardener and I'm gonna call him mod Gardener because that's
the name his mom gave him. You know. But that's
week when we talked about the offensive players, I said,
the Jets hit a home run with Greece Hall, I said,
they hit a grand slam with Garrett Wilson, And on
my gardener, they've basically got the picture that is capable
of pitching a perfect game every time he steps on

(52:39):
the mound. I mean, the guy has been that brilliant.
Had some struggles last week against Chicago, which was a rarity,
but the fact is this with with a mod Gardener.
He was a better cornerback in two thousand twenty one
that he was in two thousand twenty and he's a
much better cornerback in two thousand twenty two than he
was a two thousand twenty one. Are We set the

(53:00):
Jet game in the rain on Sunday and they honored
Darrelle Revis in the Ring of Honor. And I gotta
tell you, I've watched a lot of Jets football. A
mod Gardener right now is playing better than Durrell Reeves
did at equal points in their career. In your rookie season,
that is how outstanding a mod Gardener has been. In
two thousand twenty two for the New York Jets, I

(53:21):
saw someone say that if Antonio Comardi and Durrell Reeves
had a baby together, it would be sas Gardener. So yeah,
you know you got the long lighty arms, right, Yeah,
you know two, it could happen. Right. Let's take of
the defensive backfield Kyle Hamilton's you know, I think the

(53:44):
Ravens are a good job of working him in slowly.
He's only played in certain situations for him. I think Tony,
you've been proving correct in some of your criticisms are
scouting opinions from last year. I think criticism is a
little bit strong. I think we've seen him in space
against the waller receivers in the slot has not gone
so well for him. But I think when they put

(54:04):
him in other positions where he's more suited to play,
I think he's done a pretty nice job. I mean,
he's he's a strong safety type. That's it's what he is.
And and teams don't you know that that's a position
that's kind of doesn't have a big much of a
priority anymore because you need those you need that third
safety or that that second safety to play over the

(54:25):
slot receiver. I'm just wondering how long before they put
ten fifteen pounds on him and use them an outside linebacker,
because I think that's gonna be his ultimate position. And
that's what you've been saying all along. So anyone that's
listening or watching this show right now, that is not
a new tap from Tony. He's saying he's been saying
all along. He might be more suited to play the
outside linebacker or something like that. And look, fo youns

(54:46):
have someone who has similar abilities because you can say,
especially as a prospect coming out of college b y U.
Faret Warner. Fret Warner was not a Mike linebacker at
b y U. He he played kind of that star
overhang position and the fortnight And I saw him and said,
you know what, six three six pounds, let's put you

(55:08):
that Mike. And he's done a terrific job at that,
using that using that athleticism out in space, firing in
on rent place. And yeah, I agree. I think if
you add a good fifteen pounds to Hamilton's he could do. Now, again,
you have to be a different type of person to
play linebacker and bang heads all day, especially at the
level of that Fret Warner does. But just just just
talking about ability, I think Carl Hamilton has some of

(55:30):
that you mentioned Mike linebackers. Well, let's get to Devin
Lloyd and I'll raise my hand on this one and
say my bad, because I watched him a bunch last year.
I thought was a good player. I just couldn't get
on board with like the top ten, top fifteen hype.
But the boy, that guy has proven to be a
really instinctual player this year. Good against the run, He's
made plays in the passing game, work, which is where

(55:51):
I kind of thought his strength wide. But he's been
physical in the run game too, and I think they
the Jaguars have to be very happy. Frankly, I think
he's been a better player this year than than Trayvon
Walker is been early near. To be quite honest with you, yeah,
I mean you got to go back and watching the
two thousand twenty film on Devon Boyd because he was
absolutely I mean, he was an explosive playmaker. He wasn't
bad last year at Utah. He just and he just

(56:13):
did not improve on the outstanding twenty film. You know,
I thought, I said along, I love the pick. I
was kind of surprised at Jacksonville with their second first
round pick, and even throughout the draft it can go
more offense to help the quarterback Trevor Lawrence. But yeah,
I mean Lloyd has given me everything I expected because

(56:34):
he was he was more athletic than his forty time
and people were disappointed when he ran a four six nine,
not like a four or sixth nine. It is a
slow time or whatever it was, the high four sixes.
But he plays fast, he's smart, and again he was
he always showed himself to be a three down linebacker
at Utah, which is why I always stamped him, you know,

(56:55):
right in the middle of of my top prospects, as
far as my top thirty two pros back. So I'm
glad to see it's worked out for And then they
drafted Chad MoMA, uh prox guy, and I think the
second or third round, third round. Yeah, and and he's
been playing for them too. All right, Let's let's get
to the pass rushers here, the three big guys Hutchinson, Walker,

(57:16):
and Thibodeau and guys. To be honest with you, I
think we nailed all three of these guys, to be
honest with you, Hudgens has been a really good football player.
You know. I don't think he's a guy that's gonna
win with speed, but he has flash and inside movie.
He hustles for a lot of his sacks. He just
keeps going, keeps fighting. He's made a couple of great
plays in the past game dropping into coverage, showing off
that at that natural athleticism that he has, you know,

(57:39):
Cavon Tipoto, I thought that the best game of his
career this past week against Dallas, he took the Tyler
Smith a little bit. He's been better against the run
than he has been against the past. He's been relying
a little bit too much on that kind of outside
speed rush and he hasn't gotten around the edge as
much as he would like. I like this se a
little bit more variety there, and then I think we
nailed Trayvon Walker. To right, athletes, good football player are

(58:00):
good against the run. But he I'm not gonna say
non existent. But we've seen the lack of a refined
the pass rush game from him, and that showed up
in his lack of pass rush production. Yeah. I mean
my issue with Walker is is the fact that I
think he would be he's best as with his hand
in the ground as a consistent four three defensive end.

(58:22):
That's not how Jacksonville uses him. Jacksonville they took Josh Allen,
They made him stand up over tackle in their three four.
They took the kid from l s U a couple
of years ago who never panned out. It was a
safe right never same source Traymoin Walker. You know, he
doesn't have great sack numbers, but I think he's better off.

(58:44):
I've always said I think he's better off on a
foreman front with his hand in the ground coming out
of a three points since you want to stand them
up on occasion. Fine, Uh that that my in my opinion,
is part of the problem is just the misuse of him. Croc,
you're silt on that those those array of guys there, Yeah,
I think, like you said, kind of spot on and

(59:04):
now that's how people identified them. Maybe he just might
take a little bit longer for Walker. You see him
come out, you know, especially early in the preseason, goes
out and gets the sack. You see some production there, right,
Well it's just preseason. Let's see him in the NFL.
NFL gets a sack an amazing interception off of Carson
Wentz where kind of pelled back and it really flashed
that athleticism. But since then it has been a little

(59:24):
bit more hid and missed and they probably would like
But he's somebody that I think they have to bring
along slowly. And Trent Balky, he's been the general manager there.
He drafted him. He was a guy who was the
gym for the fourty niners. He likes a long arm,
lanky guys that have a lot of athleticism. Had gotten
by the name of all In Smith, who really hit
the ground running. But a lot of people forget this
all of Smith as a rookie. He was just a

(59:47):
situational pass rusher. He just ended up having a bunch
of SATs right on that defense that he was playing
with being able to rush off the edge. But there
was still a lot that he had to learn. He
was just more freakish, and I think Walker he has
that freak disability as well. There's waiting for it to
be a little bit more consistent, no question about it.
Any other rookies on defense that you guys want to

(01:00:07):
kind of point out and highlight here that that we
haven't touched on. God, I agree, I'm with you, all right, guys,
good stuff. We'll be back in a few weeks after
we get through all the conference championships and everything. We'll
start highlighting some of the accepted invitations to both the
Shrine Bowl and the Senior Bowl as we get closer here.
As we continue throughout the end of the college football season, gentlemen,

(01:00:29):
always fun. We'll talk to you a couple of weeks
or Tony Pauli and Eric Crocker, rom John Schmulk, thanks
for joining us on this episode of Draft Season. Once again,
It's brought to you by Tommy. He'll figure a PVH
brand and an official partner of the New York Football Giants.
For Tony and Eric, I'm John Schmulk. We'll see you
next time. This is draft season.