March 13, 2023 • 33 mins
John Schmeelk and Tony Pauline react to the Chicago Bears trading the 1st overall pick to the Carolina Panthers and how that affects the rest of the draft. SUBSCRIBE NOW: Apple | Spotify | Google | Stitcher | iHeartRadio 00:00 - Bears 08:16 - Panthers 11:35 - Quarterback selection order 26:33 - Impact on Top 10
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Now fish are over. Welcome to another edition of Draft
Season right here on Giants dot Com, The Giant, Small
blapp and of course, oh your favorite podcast platforms. It's
not a Giant show, though, it is a draft show.
And we got a lot of news over the weekend.
My partner in crime is Tony Pauline. You know I'm
(00:23):
from Pro Football Network. I am John Schmilk. Thanks for
being with us, everybody, and Tony. I think we all
expected the Bears were getting out of number one. We
just didn't know when it was going to happen. News
dropped over the weekend, and before we get into it,
let's give the fans the parameters of the trade. I'm
sure they've heard it already, but let's get all the
exact details. In the Bears receive, or rather send out,
(00:45):
the number one overall pick in the twenty twenty three
NFL drafts of the Carolina Panthers. In return, the Bears
receive the panthers ninth overall pick in the draft, the
sixty first pick, which is the draft pick the Panthers
got from the forty nine ers and the Christian mc
caffrey trade, so that is a late second round pick.
Also in the twenty twenty three draft, they also obtain
a twenty twenty four first round pick and a twenty
(01:08):
twenty five second round pick. And then the cherry on
top is DJ Moore, who is a very very good
wide receiver also heading to the Chicago Bears to help
out justin field. You can go first, Tony, your thoughts,
My thoughts are? You know? If I'm a Bears fan today,
I'm a static. I mean, they basically moved out of
the top spot. They got a whole of picks. You know,
(01:32):
they're basically a team in rebuild mold. When you look
at where they're at, where they're selecting now with that
ninth slot, when you look at their needs, they can
come away with a good offensive tackle. There's a chance
Paris shots maybe there. You know, they need offensive guards.
Depends on what you think of Scronsky. He's likely to
be there from them. If I'm a Chicago Bears fan,
(01:55):
I'm a static now. If I'm a Carolina Panthers fan,
you know, I mean, wow, this is exciting that they
made the trade. But they're not trading up for a
Trevor Lawrence type of quarterback. None of these quarterbacks great,
as high as any of many recent quarterbacks that we've seen.
Let's be honest. You go back to what year was it,
twenty sixteen? Right, two thousand and sixteen draft when you
(02:18):
had two trades for teams moving up for Jared Goff
and teams moving up for Carson Wentz. Now, let's forget
about what we know today going back to twenty sixteen.
Can you sit here and telling me that CJ. Stroud
or Bryce Young or whoever else are as highly rated,
highly graded as either Goff or Wentz work when they
(02:39):
were in the draft. I think Bryce Young was a
better college player than either one of those guys, is down,
no doubt about it. But we're not talking about college.
You're right, are they hire rated as far as draft prospects?
And for Carolina, I think to me it just epitomizes
how you know the league is sold quarterback crazy and
you've got to have the quarterback they basically gave away,
(03:01):
I mean tons of draft capital for guys that are
major question marks. And granted there were always major question
marks when you drafted the quarterback, but again, none of
these guys come close to Trevor Lawrence. And it was
a Trevior Lawrence type package in my opinion, that they
gave away. Yeah, I think there's a million ways to
break this down. So let's start the package first here, Tony.
(03:24):
You know we talked. You know, one thing we kind
of discussed over the course of our draft season episodes.
Or do the Bears maybe trade down twice? Right? Do
they inch down to two or inch down to four
then inch down again to try to get a little
more capital back. But I really think just making the
direct move, they got enough. I mean, you got two ones,
two twos and DJ Moore? Who if you were going
to trade for DJ Moore on Island? Right, you got
(03:45):
to Carolina? I want to trade for Dj Moore? What
is Carolin gonna asked for? Are they gonna ask my
first round pick? That's what they're gonna ask for. So
they in effect got three ones, two twos. Now one
two is at the very end of the second round,
Panthers held onto their own second round pick, which is
obviously a a better selection. We'll get into that too,
But I really do think the Bears maximize their value here.
(04:06):
And I guess the other question I'll ask you now too,
is there a chance now that even a guy like
Jalen Carter could be there at nine given the off
the field issues, which is maybe the guy they're targeting. Anyway,
we don't know. I mean, let's go back to the
previous show when we talked about Jaylen Carter. We really
don't know because the legal issue has to be played out.
The legal issue has to be completed, and then the
(04:29):
Bears have to decide the line to the police and everything.
Is he trustworthy enough to bring in? He could be gone,
He could still be there. The further you know Jalen
Carter falls, obviously, the more red flags are. And as
I said before, if these legal issues are not closed
out or it doesn't look like they're going to close out,
(04:49):
his draft stock is going to tank. Yeah. Look, and
we also know Bears ownership. They I think from what
I understand talking to people that are familar with the organization,
they tend to be somewhat conserved. So I'm not sure
if that's something that they'd be a little bit hesitant
in terms of going after a player like that. But look,
I think the Bears have set themselves up. You got
to give Ryan Pole's credit. You know, he was their
GM higher last year, you go back, you can question
(05:12):
that Chase Claypool trade. I'm sure they like that back
if they could and have that second round pick and
said Claypool. But look, that trade's done. But now you've
given Justin Fields a pre and nice set of wide
receivers now, I mean Dj Moore, Darnol Movie, and Chase Claypool.
I mean it's not a top five unit, but that's
a pretty good one through three wide receiver wise. They
drafted Cole Comet to play tight end last year. He's
(05:33):
a good, pretty good player. Now you have all these
additional picks. Throw in the fact that they lead the
NFL in cap space. So look right now the Bears, Tony,
I think number one goal for them is figure out
what Justin Fields is, right, what do they have in
Justin Fields? Now they put the receivers around them. You
mentioned in draft, you have a chance to draft now
an offensive tackle if you want in that first round,
(05:54):
or Scronsky if you think he can do you know, center, guard,
whatever tackle, and then you can both of your offensive
line and free agency as well. And now you have
old his draft capital in twenty twenty four and twenty
twenty five. If you put all this stuff around fields
and it doesn't work out, you have all these future
picks now where you can go get a quarterback next
year if you need to. So I really think Ryan
(06:16):
Poles has put himself in the best position possible not
only to succeed with Justin Fields, but to pivot if
Fields doesn't work out. I think they know what Fields
is by virtue of this trade. I mean, how much
talk and I never bought into it was you know
they're gonna trade Justin Fields and take a quarterback with
that first pick, even though none of those quarterback after
really grated as highly as Justin Fields. Answering the drafts,
(06:39):
did you have Fields great higher than all these guys. Absolutely? Uh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean when you book it, you know his sophomore season,
junior season was a little bit down. He had that
great game against Clemson. I mean, it was a phenomenal
game against Clemson in the semifinal game. I thought it
was terrific, you know, the one on what fields? And
I remember breaking that story that was the COVID year
(06:59):
at the at the Senior Bowl was teams thought he
were concerned he doesn't read defense as well. We'll have
to see how that plays out. Now. You know, obviously
they got to protect him. You mentioned the receivers, you
mentioned the tight end. Now they got to and that's
their number one need. And like you said, I mean
I hate to think that, well, justin fields fails, you
(07:19):
can use one of these future first round, multiple first
round picks to get a quarterback or move up to
get a quarterback. But you are absolutely right when you
say that. Again, you know, from from a Bear's point
of view, I thought it was masterful. I didn't think
that there was going to you I really didn't believe
that there was a gonna be a huge market for
that first pick because I was not a big believer
(07:40):
in these quarterbacks. We've gone through it all the time
and time again. You know the holes of these guys game,
the concerns with these guys. Obviously I was wrong that
market was there for Carolina and the Bears. They got
all this draft capital. Now they have to use it correctly.
We saw what happened with the Raiders with all that
draft capital they got for Kleil mcann. They got nobody.
(08:00):
I mean, they got the running back. Josh Jacobs is
basically the only one left. So now it's a matter
of using that draft capital correctly, making proper choices, and
getting not just filling needs, but getting good players. Yeah,
and really building up your franchise. So I'm with you, Tony.
Let's look at now this from the Panther's perspective. And look,
(08:20):
I don't know. I don't cover the team, but listening
to what I have about from people that do, I
got to imagine this as an ownership driven trade, you know,
I feel like you know, and look, I get it.
They've been kind of it's not quite the Indianapolis Colts
on the quarterback carousel, but you know, you tried with
Sam Darnold, you tried with Baker Mayfield. And maybe doing
(08:43):
it on the cheap is the wrong way to put it,
but it's certainly not the huge investment in the quarterback spot.
And I think they've basically said Scott Fitterer and Temper
or the owner are basically like, look, if you want
to win in this league, and you said it, the
least quarterback obsess and understand that we sow is the
most important position on the field. We have to go
make a b investment here and try to go get
that quarterback. And they went out and did that. Now, Unfortunately,
(09:05):
I like the Panther's offensive line. I think it's pretty good, right.
I think Ikey Aquana who made some progress last year.
Moten's a good right tackle. They got a pretty good defense.
But now you've stripped your wide receiver corps a little
bit with Dj Moore. You can't have to build that
up from scratch. You sold that second round pick that
should help with that. And now you're gonna put a
quarterback in a situation where my senses Tony and this
(09:27):
is when begins having fun. Now and figure out who
the Panthers are gonna pick. I sense the owner is
a swing for the fences type of guy. But if
you're stripping all of this down and you think you
have a pretty good product in roster already, and I
do think the Panthers roster is pretty good. I don't
think it's a bad roster. Do you want to pick
a project here or do you want to pick a
guy that maybe you can put in a little bit
(09:48):
quicker to try to make something of your team a
little bit faster? What do you think their strategy is
going to be here? Well, first of all, Bryce Young
hasn't thrown yet, so we haven't had a Pro day
workout from Bryce Young. It'll be interesting to see who
the Panthers send to the Alabama Pro Day and also
with those Paraday workouts. I'm sure Rayshan will have the
Alabama Pro Day. He may have his own Pro Day.
(10:10):
We'll see if the Panthers working out individually, because if
the Panthers working out individually, what will happen is Frank
Rank will have him throw passes that are relevant to
the offense he's going to implement. Okay, but I agree
with you with the owner being involved, which the owner
has every involved. The owner was involved, you know, and
the possibilities to get into Seawan Watson and you know
(10:31):
he's made made statements early on with the swing for
the fences. I mean, I think Anthony Richardson more and
more now becomes part of the conversation, the equation for
the first pick of the draft. And you know, to me,
you know, I will never be a believer in that.
I just because of the fact that you talk about
a developmental guy. I really think that Carolina got hurt
(10:55):
last year, or maybe hurts not the right word. They
kind of got they missed on something they missed because
if you remember, they took Matt Correll in the third round,
and Matt Correll got injured early on and was gone
for the season. I really would have liked to seeing
what would have happened if corral was able to stay
healthy and you know, played down the stretch, just to see,
(11:16):
you know, if he was potentially the answer for them
at the quarterback position. Because Matt Correll showed a lot
of terrific things that the Mississippi everybody, including myself thought
that that was a great pick for the franchise in
the third round. And we may never know what Matt
Correll's going to turn out to be, at least with
the Carolina Panthers moving forward. All Right, this is gonna
(11:36):
be a good place now to have the quarterback conversation, right,
so we talk about their strategy here talking to teams, Tony,
you have a lot of sources, You talk to a
lot of people. Has Richardson inched his way in front
of Levis you think on most teams boards as that
upside quarterback because of the testing, or do you think
it's a little evenly split still now? I think actually
I think what happened is Levis has actually moved down.
(11:57):
I think that's what I'm saying. Do you you think Richardson's
moved past him? Yeah, well, but but but again, it's
not that Richardson has moved past him. It's as much
a function of Levis going in the opposite direction as
it is you know, Richardson going out. First thing is,
you know, people talked about Levis as top four pack,
top of maybe the first pick of the draft. You
talk to people in the league. They never thought that
about about Levis. You know, they thought his combined workout
(12:21):
was not that good. They think that he's a guy
who's too muscle bound, he's too stiff. They think that
he needs a lot of work on his fundamentals, as
does Anthony Richardson. They think that he is just really
intent on showing off what a strong army has. Everybody
knows he has a strong arm. So the combined workout
didn't do anything to help Will Levis. And then there's
also the fact that he refused to play in the
(12:42):
Sea Bowl. That we talked about that at length on
the show. So I think it's more of the the fact
that Anthony Richardson, people will find out, is not as
highly thought of in in war rooms, in scouting, in
the scouting community as people first thought. So yeah, I
do believe that. You know, Richardson has jumped to his
leap frog over Levis significantly, and he's gonna get going
(13:05):
to be in that conversation for the first pick with Carolina.
You know, it's funny. It kind of brings me back
to what you were just talking about. We're last year
around this time, people were talking about like Malik Willis
is the top ten pick and MEA and Eric when
we were doing our shows together, we kind of tried
to dispel that that. Yet you know, the thirty second
YouTube clip is great, Twitter clip, Instagram clip, whatever. This
(13:28):
unbelievable play when you watch the actual tape the guy.
I mean, I'm not trying to kill Malik Willis, but
he didn't really know how to play the position. He
was still learning, right, He was a very row player,
and I think Richardson is further along in the leak
Willis was. He's a better player, more physically gifted as well,
higher level of play and all that stuff. But I
think teams will at some point Tony maybe feel the
(13:49):
same way where you know, Malie Willis won the third
round last year. Now that's not gonna happen to Richards.
He's gonna be a first round pick. But I agree.
I think teams who do more of the work and
aren't going to be enraptured by those wow plays are
probably gonna be a little bit more, you know, hesitant
about a guy like that despite the raw physical gifts.
(14:10):
That's why impetuous owners are a bad thing on draft day. Okay,
you talk about, you know, the owner being part of
the equation and you know an owner and I'm not
saying Pepper that does this, but you know, we've seen
in the past owners flying around on the private jets
to scout players, owners at Pro day workouts, and it
never works out. Leave it to the football people. You
brought Scott Fitter in for a reason, you brought in
(14:32):
Frank Rifer. Leave the decision to them, and I agree
with you. Yeah, they need a quarterback. Obviously, they're going
to take a quarterback with everything that they gave away.
And remember this isn't the first time, because they gave
away a ton of draft capital to the New York
Jets in order to trade for Sam Donald, So this
isn't the first time that they've done this. But you're right.
(14:53):
I absolutely agree with you. That's why I've said all
along that Anthony Richardson, in my opinion is the prototypical
boomer bus candidate in this year's draft. I mean, yeah,
he could turn out to be a great franchise quarterback,
you know, that can carry a team for years and years.
But you could also be a guy that breaks your heart.
You could be a Jamie Winston type of player. And
(15:14):
people say, well, you got a roll of dice. Well,
you know, the Carolina Panthers are rolling the dice and
they're giving away a lot of future draft capital, a
lot of future picks, you know, with the roll of
the dice. And what happens is if it doesn't work
out no more. It's not that you just didn't work
out with the player that you selected. You now lost
all those picks and you have multiple holes on your roster.
(15:38):
Now I'm with you, Tony, And look, I think when
when you take a look at that and when you
break it down the way you do, you know, when
it comes to Anthony Richardson, you know, I've made the
Cam Newton comparison here before, but it's more like a
physicality and a profile right like they they they're both huge,
the physically gifted. Richardson's a better faster run of than Newton.
(16:00):
Newton was I think a more polished passer than Richardson
was coming out. And I think the other big difference
due Cam Newton's like playing for national championships. I mean
he's a winner like that, dude one at every level.
He was like, He's done a lot more from that
perspective than Richardson has ever done. Now, now the Newton maybe,
I mean it's not like Newton was playing at Alabama.
Either's playing at Auburn. I mean, that's right exactly against Alabama.
(16:24):
That to me is what the difference is with those
two guys when you evaluate him. Cam Newton just simply
he was much more of accomplished player coming out than
he's done. He did so much more than Richardson's ever sniffed.
I'm one of those people that when it comes to quarterbacks,
I believe you gotta look at the body of work,
and the greater the body of work, the more successful
the quarterback is going to be. You know, these guys
(16:46):
that start for a year or two and then enter
the league, you know, it usually doesn't work out for
those guys. Trevior Lawrence, I mean, Trevor Lawrence was a winning,
consistent quarterback and he's you know, he's one of a kind.
I granted for three years at at Clemson. Go back
to Paint Manning. Paint Manning was a four year starter. Well,
(17:07):
he was a part time starter as a freshman at Tennessee.
You've got to look at the body of work, and
even if you're honest with yourself, even Anthony Richardson's body
of work is not that good on the college level.
He didn't carry that Florida team. I mean they lost
to Vanderbilt. You go back and watch the Florida State game,
which they lost to Florida State. Complete in thirty three
(17:27):
percent of his passes and the throws were all over
the place. Yeah, he looks great and shorts and a
T shirt throw on the ball. But when there's eleven
guys on the field and he's got to read the
defense and he's got to find the safety, and he's
gotta you know, he's got people breathe them down his neck,
it's a different story. That's why I believe, that's why
I think he's a huge bus He's got a huge
(17:48):
bus factor here because there is no body. The body
of work there is minimal, and what we've seen has
not been off the chart successful at all. Yeah, and look,
and I think I almost don't want the Panthers to
to draft Richardson because I think they're gonna feel a
lot of pressure to play him right away because of
what they gave up to get him. And he is
not ready, like he he needs to have a full
(18:08):
season on the bench watching. Look, can you run packages
for him where you take advantage of athleticism and all
that sort of stuff? Sure, But I mean even you know, talking,
you know, listening to other guys who covered the draft,
like like we do Tony, you know, and you know,
Dame Brugler reported this over the weekend that talking the
NFL teams are like it's you know, you sit down
with him in these meetings and there's a lot he
(18:29):
just doesn't know because he hasn't played a lot. I mean,
just what was he of thirteen starts in his career
or something like that. It's just it's just not a
lot of football, which is why And I think I'm
probably a little bit higher on you know Will Levis
than you are, Tony, but I think at least when
you look at it, he started for two years. His
tape this year was rough. It was not good. Now,
the talent around him was bad. He played injured the
(18:51):
whole year with some serious stuff. He changed, the offensive
coordinator got changed on him. You go back to his
twenty one tape, there's stuff on there that you're like,
all right, look like the he moved the ball against Georgia,
Like they did a nice job in that Georgia game
against a really good Georgia team two years ago. So
I do think there's a little bit more there. But
I think both guys are probably not ready at the
(19:11):
NFL level to step in and play right away, and
Richardson even more so than Levis. You know, you say,
if you draft Richardson, you got to sit him for
a year. I absolutely agree with you. Now, there are
some people that say, well, he doesn't have experience. The
way he's going to get better is by inserting him,
is it, though? I mean, if if he's your opening
day starter, you could ruin him. That's true. I understand
(19:35):
playing him, but if you want to piecemeal him in it,
if you want to put him in at the end
of the games. I wouldn't start him, have him to
be your starting quarterback in September October. You want to
put him in the second half, you want to put
him in. Listen. The fact is this. The curve is
so much steeper in the NFL from college compared to
college football in so many ways. And I'm gonna just
(19:55):
talking about the speed on the field. I'm talking about
the learning curve. I'm talking about the meetings that you
go to. I'm talking about the conditioning everything. The curves
are so much steeper on the NFL level than they
are in the Clouds level. I mean, it's so much
information being thrown it's too and it's the ability to
absorb and understand and use that information. I can understand
(20:17):
why people want Anthony Richardson to play, you know, his
first year in the league. I just think that if
you start him, if you expect him to be your
opening day starter, it could lead to ruin. Yeah, look,
I agree, and I think it's problematic. So then we're
talking Tony about either Bryce Young or CJ. Stroud. And
you know, we talked about this briefly on our in
(20:38):
our combined review. I was also impressed with c J.
Stroud at that with this throwing session at the combine,
I thought he was smooth, he was accurately through a
nice ball. I expected all that. I mean, if you
watch him on tape, we talked about it. He's the
most accurate. You know, his accuracy is as great as strength.
You know, he doesn't have a cannon, but I thought
he's Actually his deep ball actually impressed me more than
I thought it would at the combine, he through a
(21:00):
really nice deep ball, show a real good arm strength.
But he is touch. He thoes a good ball, he
spends it. He's accurate. Like I know, people like, oh
he was great. I kind of off the tape, I
thought he was gonna do that. That's what he That's
the strength of Ohio State, like people. Maybe they people
don't think about it this way, but he should. CJ.
Stroud is like an old school NFL pocket passer, Like
that's what he is. That's what he does. He's a
(21:21):
technician back there. He's an accurate thrower. So to me,
I wouldn't move him up a lot based on what
he did at the combat because I expected that. That's
what I already knew about the guy, you know what
I mean. And again, and he's not a mobile as
we saw in that Georgia game. He can get outside
the pocket. And you know, I had to be redundant.
I mean, which CJ. Stroud are we going to get
(21:42):
at the next level. Are we gonna get to CJ.
Stroude we saw against Georgia in the semifinal game. Are
we gonna get to CJ Stroud we saw the prior
year against Utah and the Rose Bowl. Or are we
gonna get to CJ Stroud that we saw, you know
during most of the year in two twenty two, which
the team started slow, the CJ. Stroud which basically fit
l two years in a row, horribly against Michigan, a
(22:03):
good Michigan defense. And again, you know, I thought myself,
but CJ. Strudd, I agree with you, and we said
this before, and the combine is set up for a
guy like CJ. Stroud. I didn't think his depasses they
were nice. I didn't think they were all that accurate.
I expected more accuracy. He did hit the wire from
one of those throws for the UK. It was kind
(22:23):
of actually funny. Um, But again, I don't know how
much of it was the problems at CJ. Stroud, howd
old House State were his versus the Olhouse State coaching
staff over coaching him, because as I've said time and
time again, you know, he'd be up at the line
of scrimmage, he'd be in the pocket and he's looking
at the sidelines and the play clock is sticking down
six five for and he's waiting for direction. Rather than
(22:46):
letting CJ. Stroud play that semi final game against Georgia,
they let him play and he was brilliant. That's the CJ.
Stroud that I think, you know, that's the one we're
going to get. That's the one I hope we're going
to get. But again, you know everything, you know, we
talk about Anthony Richardson's, you know, a body of work.
C J. Richardson only played two years. He played. He
was more successful on the cause he had a lot
(23:07):
more a lot more talent in front of him and
around him than Anthony Richardson. But he still only has
a two year body work, although he did did a
solid job at the Ohio State. Yeah. Look, and I'll
just say this too, and I'm not one to scout
the helmet. What a previous player did. Has nothing to
do with the current player, but you brought it up
in your last answer, Tony. The Ohio State offensive system
scares me a little bit. It's just not an NFL.
(23:28):
That's not as system you can run the NFL where
you basically sit back there and you your wide receivers
who are better than everyone else, you know, run around
and get open, and you just sit there and you wait, like,
that's not what the NFL is. So I wonder what
the learning curve is going to be for him going
from the Ohio State system to the NFL for him
as well. And then finally, let me just say one
(23:49):
thing on that, Yeah, please go ahead. What bothered me was,
you know, he was just zoned in on a few receivers.
He rarely used the tight end the last two years,
even though we had a real good one and twenty one.
Jerry may Rutgerd you know, you go back and we
talked about this last year. Basically, Chris Alave was the
forgotten man in a twenty twenty one offense going to
Garrett Wilson, Marvin Harrison Junior. I mean, chrisia and we
(24:12):
stow what a good receiver is a good receiver. Chris
Allavey isn't now Again, I don't know if that's a
play design. I don't know if that's something where he's
not looking around to see all the receivers. But yeah,
that has to be a concern. Yeah. Look, I'm with
you one hundred percent. Finally, Bryce Young, Look, I'm still
a Bryce Young guy. If I'm picking first, that's the
guy I'm picking. I know the size scares people. I
get it. I'd be a little scared too, And look,
(24:34):
waiting at two hundred and four pounds whatever you know,
don't No one believes he's actually two hundred and four pounds,
and that's fine. But look, he can play football, and
I just I don't know why a team would have
to wait to watch him at his pro day. I've
seen enough. If I don't see that guy throw again
before the combine, before the draft, I don't care. Whatever.
I know what he can do. I've seen it in games.
So I guess talk about Bryce. And then if you
(24:55):
had the guests right now, Tony, who do you think
the Panthers do take with that first pick? Well, I
think right now I'm gonna say c J. Strab though,
Anthony Richardson's in the conversation getting back to Bryce Young,
I think you know what happens with the prod age,
what happens with the with the one on one workouts
is the teams will ask the quarterback to throw certain
(25:16):
passes that are relevant to the system that they implement,
to see if he can throw those types of passes.
That's what teams want to see. I completely agree with you, right,
I mean, you know, if if Bryce Young was two
inches tall at three inches taller and fifteen pounds, every year,
we're talking about a guy who's graded higher than Trevor Lawrence.
Yes hell Burrow Trevor Lawrence territory. That's all right, And
(25:37):
don't tell me about the you know, the talent around
Alabama because this year he did not have the same
offensive line in front of him as he twenty twenty one.
He didn't have a fraction of the weapons at his disposal,
and he was brilliant. He was absolutely brilliant. And that
is my type of quarterback. I am willing to give
up arm strength for God that gets it between the
ears and guy who's clairvoyant, and that's what Bryce Young is.
(26:00):
You know, I there's a few people said, oh, Houston
made a mistake. They should be tanked, which which is ridiculous.
You're not tanking a the NFL to get that first pick.
I think Houston's fine where they're at. You know, if
they don't get if they like Thho, I'll get ths
out because he goes to taking a bright shop, you know.
And again, regardless of whatever team takes him bright young,
you've got to protect him. You've got to make sure
(26:21):
there are a players in front of him that can
keep them up right, because he's not going to be
able to take the beating on Sunday that he took
against Tennessee in that game and constantly pull himself off
the field and get back into the get back into
the huddle. All right, So before we say goodbye, we're
gonna be a little shorter today because this is a
big free agency week and a lot of needs and
stuff are gonna change based on free agency. We don't
(26:41):
get too deep into all that. We'll do that next week.
We'll react. It's everything that happened in terms of teams
and heaves with free agency. So Tony, before we let's
get into this one last topic before we go and
you kind of touch it on your last answer, What,
in your opinion is the impact of this trade on
what happens now after the first pick in the draft.
(27:02):
And yeah, it's a good question because now obviously there's
gonna be one less quarterback available after the Houston Texans pick, right,
because we thought that Chicago is going to take one
of the two defensive players Will Anderson and Jylen Quarter.
I think the impact can only be really known when
we find out what the situation with Jalen Carter, what
happens legally with Jalen Carter, because that will determine how
(27:25):
far he falls. You know, are the Raiders going to
take a quarterback with that pick? Are the Raiders gonna
take Will Levis? I mean there's gonna be there's likely
to be a quarterback available to the Raiders. Are they
gonna take a quarterback? Are they going to go with
an offensive lineman? So I think the Raiders are probably
not too happy because they're not gonna have their pick
(27:45):
a quarterbacks because there's gonna be one less quarterback on
the board. I mean maybe that's where Will Levis goes.
If Josh McDaniel fields, he could work with them but again,
I don't think it really affects that many teams because
because you know, after Caroline, after Houston, after you know,
the Raiders, how many other teams who are looking for
(28:05):
a quarterback in the top ten? Well Colts and I think, yeah, no,
that's okay, But I think that's the team to touch
on here, right, You're right, the Texans are good whomever
whatever guy they like that that the Panthers don't pick. Now,
So there's two teams I think that I think this
impact You mentioned the Raiders. They might now have to
move up if someone might not get to them. Right,
(28:26):
So the Cardinals now are sitting with the lottery ticket, right,
they're the first team that doesn't need a quarterback now
that has a draft pick. So does a team want
to get in front the Indianapolis here to go get
that quarterback before the Colts pick? Do the Colts want
to move up so they can at least get the
third quarterback and not wait for the fourth one of
number four? I think that's fascinating. Now, what did the
(28:48):
Cardinals do who have an injury a quarterback? They're not
going to try to win this year, they're in rebuild mode.
Do they try to turn that third pick. Now, you're
not going to get the assets that the Bears got
for the Panther from the from the Panthers for the
first of all pick. But do the Cardinals now try
to auction off that pick so a team can go
get the quarterback they wanted three if they're still on
the board, And does that have to wait until draft
(29:09):
day because you don't know who's going off one two?
I apologize to CaAl Fence, completely blanked out zone down
on that one. You know, listen, the last time we
had three quarterbacks go one, two, three, it was Trevor Lawrence,
Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. So and you know the
Niners made a big move for Trey Lanson for whatever reason,
he's not worked out. I think obviously the Cardinals are
(29:31):
likely gonna shop that pick to get more draft capital.
You know, again, it's only eye of the beholder. I mean,
what do teams think of that third quarterback? Are they
willing to give away a lot or they willing to
give away picks to move up to get that third quarterback?
If it's me, the answers no. But you know, I'm
not in a position to make those decisions, and I'm
not running a team that needs a quarterback, so I
(29:55):
think it makes sense that Caroline is gonna start to
shop that pick. We'll just see how desperate team hard
to move up and get one of the quarterbacks, if
in fact they are that desperate. Do you think Jare
Mercy is really annoyed right now? I mean, I mean
you got to imagine you're the Colts. You know, at
least two quarterbacks are gone now when you're picking it
for maybe a third at the Cardinals do trade for
a team? What do you do now? If you're in Annapolis?
(30:17):
You know? Is he annoyed? I mean it works both ways.
Remember they made the trade down with the Jets, or
the Jets could trade Sam Don't move up to get
Sam Don't. And they got a great offensive lineman. So
you know, I think there's something to be said for
waiting for the draft to come to you and then
take it from there. Is he upset? You know? They
got a new a new quarterback coach in there, so
(30:37):
I'm sure he feels that whatever, and the quarterback coach
work wonders with a guy that was, you know, selected
late in the second round. So I don't think I
don't is er say ur He's probably irked about a
lot of things, Jamercy, but as he irked about this,
you know, I don't if he's smart, leave it to
the football people. Just let the football people worry about
(30:59):
it and uh, you know, sign the checks. Hey. Look,
and but Chris ballas trying to save his job here, right, Tony.
I mean, you know he really is. So this is
gonna be a big decision for him. Now does he
move up to three? Does he stay at four? And
you know, the last thing you want to do is
to just say, oh, we need a quarterback, will pick
the one that's left. If you don't believe in the guy,
that's gonna sabotage the whole thing from the beginning. The
(31:21):
amazing thing about Ballard is is Ballard has has had
so much success in the draft at other positions and
other areas, but the quarterback spot has been has been
a sore spot for him. After Philip Rivers, it's been
a disaster or for the cult. So you're right about that.
I mean, I don't know that they got to win
right away, but they got to get somebody behind center
that shows that they've got some longevity and that they
(31:44):
are the player of the future. Yeah, they really do.
And then again, you know the Seahawks at five, you
know that Geno Smith deal, you can get out after
one year or do they wanted to, Like I think
that would be a great spot if a team that
would actually fit with Richardson's the Seahawks absolutely know. You
can even let Gino st two years if you want,
and then you slide Richardson in like that to me,
and even Levis, you could put Levis there too, week
(32:05):
instead the year and then you can figure it out.
That to me is a good spot for those guys
because there's no pressure for the quarterback to step in
and play right away. And you know that Gino Smith
is going to be a great mentor. You know, Gino
Smith has had an up and down the NFL career.
I'm glad to see that he's had some success, you know,
But Gino Smith is a genuine guy. He's not going
to be a guy that winds and complains if they
(32:27):
draft a quarterback early on. He's gonna go out there
and show what he can do and he's gonna be
a good mentor. So I agree with I thought it
all along with that second pick in the first round.
If they signed Gino Smith, that would be a good
spot for Anthony Richardson. That looks like it's not gonna happen. Yeah,
that might be in the first round. I should say, yeah, might,
it might be in number five. It's crazy if they
do it all, right, Tony, I guess before we say goodbye,
(32:49):
any other draft thoughts top of mine year as we
head into free agency week? Yeah, I mean with free agency,
the draft takes takes a back seat with all the
free agency craziness, and it's on this Annibal because what
we see happen the next week is going to dictate
where teams may shift their draft boards. Because if they're
able to fill a need at left ackle, if they're
(33:09):
able to fill a need at receiver, if they're able
to fill a need at cornerback, you can scratch that
off as far as being a need on draft Day. Yeah,
we'll keep an eye in that all week. Stay tuned.
We'll cover it right here on all of our podcasts
here in the Giants podcast Network, Big Blue King, Golf, Live,
Giants Huddle, all that great stuff. If you're a Giant fan,
if you're just tuning in for draft coverage. You'll be
(33:31):
back next week, probably early next week. We'll try to
do Monday or Tuesday next week, and we'll get really
a feel for how the draft landscape has changed with
free agency. And I'm sure we'll get a lot of
veteran trades too, maybe some more draft trades as well
over the next week. And we have Pro days too
that I know Tony is tracking fastidiously that we'll have
all the updates on you like that one. Cover it
up next week. Odd draft season for Tony Pauline. I'm
(33:53):
Josh Felk. We'll see everybody next time.
Now fish are over. Welcome to another edition of Draft
Season right here on Giants dot Com, The Giant, Small
blapp and of course, oh your favorite podcast platforms. It's
not a Giant show, though, it is a draft show.
And we got a lot of news over the weekend.
My partner in crime is Tony Pauline. You know I'm
(00:23):
from Pro Football Network. I am John Schmilk. Thanks for
being with us, everybody, and Tony. I think we all
expected the Bears were getting out of number one. We
just didn't know when it was going to happen. News
dropped over the weekend, and before we get into it,
let's give the fans the parameters of the trade. I'm
sure they've heard it already, but let's get all the
exact details. In the Bears receive, or rather send out,
(00:45):
the number one overall pick in the twenty twenty three
NFL drafts of the Carolina Panthers. In return, the Bears
receive the panthers ninth overall pick in the draft, the
sixty first pick, which is the draft pick the Panthers
got from the forty nine ers and the Christian mc
caffrey trade, so that is a late second round pick.
Also in the twenty twenty three draft, they also obtain
a twenty twenty four first round pick and a twenty
(01:08):
twenty five second round pick. And then the cherry on
top is DJ Moore, who is a very very good
wide receiver also heading to the Chicago Bears to help
out justin field. You can go first, Tony, your thoughts,
My thoughts are? You know? If I'm a Bears fan today,
I'm a static. I mean, they basically moved out of
the top spot. They got a whole of picks. You know,
(01:32):
they're basically a team in rebuild mold. When you look
at where they're at, where they're selecting now with that
ninth slot, when you look at their needs, they can
come away with a good offensive tackle. There's a chance
Paris shots maybe there. You know, they need offensive guards.
Depends on what you think of Scronsky. He's likely to
be there from them. If I'm a Chicago Bears fan,
(01:55):
I'm a static now. If I'm a Carolina Panthers fan,
you know, I mean, wow, this is exciting that they
made the trade. But they're not trading up for a
Trevor Lawrence type of quarterback. None of these quarterbacks great,
as high as any of many recent quarterbacks that we've seen.
Let's be honest. You go back to what year was it,
twenty sixteen? Right, two thousand and sixteen draft when you
(02:18):
had two trades for teams moving up for Jared Goff
and teams moving up for Carson Wentz. Now, let's forget
about what we know today going back to twenty sixteen.
Can you sit here and telling me that CJ. Stroud
or Bryce Young or whoever else are as highly rated,
highly graded as either Goff or Wentz work when they
(02:39):
were in the draft. I think Bryce Young was a
better college player than either one of those guys, is down,
no doubt about it. But we're not talking about college.
You're right, are they hire rated as far as draft prospects?
And for Carolina, I think to me it just epitomizes
how you know the league is sold quarterback crazy and
you've got to have the quarterback they basically gave away,
(03:01):
I mean tons of draft capital for guys that are
major question marks. And granted there were always major question
marks when you drafted the quarterback, but again, none of
these guys come close to Trevor Lawrence. And it was
a Trevior Lawrence type package in my opinion, that they
gave away. Yeah, I think there's a million ways to
break this down. So let's start the package first here, Tony.
(03:24):
You know we talked. You know, one thing we kind
of discussed over the course of our draft season episodes.
Or do the Bears maybe trade down twice? Right? Do
they inch down to two or inch down to four
then inch down again to try to get a little
more capital back. But I really think just making the
direct move, they got enough. I mean, you got two ones,
two twos and DJ Moore? Who if you were going
to trade for DJ Moore on Island? Right, you got
(03:45):
to Carolina? I want to trade for Dj Moore? What
is Carolin gonna asked for? Are they gonna ask my
first round pick? That's what they're gonna ask for. So
they in effect got three ones, two twos. Now one
two is at the very end of the second round,
Panthers held onto their own second round pick, which is
obviously a a better selection. We'll get into that too,
But I really do think the Bears maximize their value here.
(04:06):
And I guess the other question I'll ask you now too,
is there a chance now that even a guy like
Jalen Carter could be there at nine given the off
the field issues, which is maybe the guy they're targeting. Anyway,
we don't know. I mean, let's go back to the
previous show when we talked about Jaylen Carter. We really
don't know because the legal issue has to be played out.
The legal issue has to be completed, and then the
(04:29):
Bears have to decide the line to the police and everything.
Is he trustworthy enough to bring in? He could be gone,
He could still be there. The further you know Jalen
Carter falls, obviously, the more red flags are. And as
I said before, if these legal issues are not closed
out or it doesn't look like they're going to close out,
(04:49):
his draft stock is going to tank. Yeah. Look, and
we also know Bears ownership. They I think from what
I understand talking to people that are familar with the organization,
they tend to be somewhat conserved. So I'm not sure
if that's something that they'd be a little bit hesitant
in terms of going after a player like that. But look,
I think the Bears have set themselves up. You got
to give Ryan Pole's credit. You know, he was their
GM higher last year, you go back, you can question
(05:12):
that Chase Claypool trade. I'm sure they like that back
if they could and have that second round pick and
said Claypool. But look, that trade's done. But now you've
given Justin Fields a pre and nice set of wide
receivers now, I mean Dj Moore, Darnol Movie, and Chase Claypool.
I mean it's not a top five unit, but that's
a pretty good one through three wide receiver wise. They
drafted Cole Comet to play tight end last year. He's
(05:33):
a good, pretty good player. Now you have all these
additional picks. Throw in the fact that they lead the
NFL in cap space. So look right now the Bears, Tony,
I think number one goal for them is figure out
what Justin Fields is, right, what do they have in
Justin Fields? Now they put the receivers around them. You
mentioned in draft, you have a chance to draft now
an offensive tackle if you want in that first round,
(05:54):
or Scronsky if you think he can do you know, center, guard,
whatever tackle, and then you can both of your offensive
line and free agency as well. And now you have
old his draft capital in twenty twenty four and twenty
twenty five. If you put all this stuff around fields
and it doesn't work out, you have all these future
picks now where you can go get a quarterback next
year if you need to. So I really think Ryan
(06:16):
Poles has put himself in the best position possible not
only to succeed with Justin Fields, but to pivot if
Fields doesn't work out. I think they know what Fields
is by virtue of this trade. I mean, how much
talk and I never bought into it was you know
they're gonna trade Justin Fields and take a quarterback with
that first pick, even though none of those quarterback after
really grated as highly as Justin Fields. Answering the drafts,
(06:39):
did you have Fields great higher than all these guys. Absolutely? Uh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean when you book it, you know his sophomore season,
junior season was a little bit down. He had that
great game against Clemson. I mean, it was a phenomenal
game against Clemson in the semifinal game. I thought it
was terrific, you know, the one on what fields? And
I remember breaking that story that was the COVID year
(06:59):
at the at the Senior Bowl was teams thought he
were concerned he doesn't read defense as well. We'll have
to see how that plays out. Now. You know, obviously
they got to protect him. You mentioned the receivers, you
mentioned the tight end. Now they got to and that's
their number one need. And like you said, I mean
I hate to think that, well, justin fields fails, you
(07:19):
can use one of these future first round, multiple first
round picks to get a quarterback or move up to
get a quarterback. But you are absolutely right when you
say that. Again, you know, from from a Bear's point
of view, I thought it was masterful. I didn't think
that there was going to you I really didn't believe
that there was a gonna be a huge market for
that first pick because I was not a big believer
(07:40):
in these quarterbacks. We've gone through it all the time
and time again. You know the holes of these guys game,
the concerns with these guys. Obviously I was wrong that
market was there for Carolina and the Bears. They got
all this draft capital. Now they have to use it correctly.
We saw what happened with the Raiders with all that
draft capital they got for Kleil mcann. They got nobody.
(08:00):
I mean, they got the running back. Josh Jacobs is
basically the only one left. So now it's a matter
of using that draft capital correctly, making proper choices, and
getting not just filling needs, but getting good players. Yeah,
and really building up your franchise. So I'm with you, Tony.
Let's look at now this from the Panther's perspective. And look,
(08:20):
I don't know. I don't cover the team, but listening
to what I have about from people that do, I
got to imagine this as an ownership driven trade, you know,
I feel like you know, and look, I get it.
They've been kind of it's not quite the Indianapolis Colts
on the quarterback carousel, but you know, you tried with
Sam Darnold, you tried with Baker Mayfield. And maybe doing
(08:43):
it on the cheap is the wrong way to put it,
but it's certainly not the huge investment in the quarterback spot.
And I think they've basically said Scott Fitterer and Temper
or the owner are basically like, look, if you want
to win in this league, and you said it, the
least quarterback obsess and understand that we sow is the
most important position on the field. We have to go
make a b investment here and try to go get
that quarterback. And they went out and did that. Now, Unfortunately,
(09:05):
I like the Panther's offensive line. I think it's pretty good, right.
I think Ikey Aquana who made some progress last year.
Moten's a good right tackle. They got a pretty good defense.
But now you've stripped your wide receiver corps a little
bit with Dj Moore. You can't have to build that
up from scratch. You sold that second round pick that
should help with that. And now you're gonna put a
quarterback in a situation where my senses Tony and this
(09:27):
is when begins having fun. Now and figure out who
the Panthers are gonna pick. I sense the owner is
a swing for the fences type of guy. But if
you're stripping all of this down and you think you
have a pretty good product in roster already, and I
do think the Panthers roster is pretty good. I don't
think it's a bad roster. Do you want to pick
a project here or do you want to pick a
guy that maybe you can put in a little bit
(09:48):
quicker to try to make something of your team a
little bit faster? What do you think their strategy is
going to be here? Well, first of all, Bryce Young
hasn't thrown yet, so we haven't had a Pro day
workout from Bryce Young. It'll be interesting to see who
the Panthers send to the Alabama Pro Day and also
with those Paraday workouts. I'm sure Rayshan will have the
Alabama Pro Day. He may have his own Pro Day.
(10:10):
We'll see if the Panthers working out individually, because if
the Panthers working out individually, what will happen is Frank
Rank will have him throw passes that are relevant to
the offense he's going to implement. Okay, but I agree
with you with the owner being involved, which the owner
has every involved. The owner was involved, you know, and
the possibilities to get into Seawan Watson and you know
(10:31):
he's made made statements early on with the swing for
the fences. I mean, I think Anthony Richardson more and
more now becomes part of the conversation, the equation for
the first pick of the draft. And you know, to me,
you know, I will never be a believer in that.
I just because of the fact that you talk about
a developmental guy. I really think that Carolina got hurt
(10:55):
last year, or maybe hurts not the right word. They
kind of got they missed on something they missed because
if you remember, they took Matt Correll in the third round,
and Matt Correll got injured early on and was gone
for the season. I really would have liked to seeing
what would have happened if corral was able to stay
healthy and you know, played down the stretch, just to see,
(11:16):
you know, if he was potentially the answer for them
at the quarterback position. Because Matt Correll showed a lot
of terrific things that the Mississippi everybody, including myself thought
that that was a great pick for the franchise in
the third round. And we may never know what Matt
Correll's going to turn out to be, at least with
the Carolina Panthers moving forward. All Right, this is gonna
(11:36):
be a good place now to have the quarterback conversation, right,
so we talk about their strategy here talking to teams, Tony,
you have a lot of sources, You talk to a
lot of people. Has Richardson inched his way in front
of Levis you think on most teams boards as that
upside quarterback because of the testing, or do you think
it's a little evenly split still now? I think actually
I think what happened is Levis has actually moved down.
(11:57):
I think that's what I'm saying. Do you you think Richardson's
moved past him? Yeah, well, but but but again, it's
not that Richardson has moved past him. It's as much
a function of Levis going in the opposite direction as
it is you know, Richardson going out. First thing is,
you know, people talked about Levis as top four pack,
top of maybe the first pick of the draft. You
talk to people in the league. They never thought that
about about Levis. You know, they thought his combined workout
(12:21):
was not that good. They think that he's a guy
who's too muscle bound, he's too stiff. They think that
he needs a lot of work on his fundamentals, as
does Anthony Richardson. They think that he is just really
intent on showing off what a strong army has. Everybody
knows he has a strong arm. So the combined workout
didn't do anything to help Will Levis. And then there's
also the fact that he refused to play in the
(12:42):
Sea Bowl. That we talked about that at length on
the show. So I think it's more of the the fact
that Anthony Richardson, people will find out, is not as
highly thought of in in war rooms, in scouting, in
the scouting community as people first thought. So yeah, I
do believe that. You know, Richardson has jumped to his
leap frog over Levis significantly, and he's gonna get going
(13:05):
to be in that conversation for the first pick with Carolina.
You know, it's funny. It kind of brings me back
to what you were just talking about. We're last year
around this time, people were talking about like Malik Willis
is the top ten pick and MEA and Eric when
we were doing our shows together, we kind of tried
to dispel that that. Yet you know, the thirty second
YouTube clip is great, Twitter clip, Instagram clip, whatever. This
(13:28):
unbelievable play when you watch the actual tape the guy.
I mean, I'm not trying to kill Malik Willis, but
he didn't really know how to play the position. He
was still learning, right, He was a very row player,
and I think Richardson is further along in the leak
Willis was. He's a better player, more physically gifted as well,
higher level of play and all that stuff. But I
think teams will at some point Tony maybe feel the
(13:49):
same way where you know, Malie Willis won the third
round last year. Now that's not gonna happen to Richards.
He's gonna be a first round pick. But I agree.
I think teams who do more of the work and
aren't going to be enraptured by those wow plays are
probably gonna be a little bit more, you know, hesitant
about a guy like that despite the raw physical gifts.
(14:10):
That's why impetuous owners are a bad thing on draft day. Okay,
you talk about, you know, the owner being part of
the equation and you know an owner and I'm not
saying Pepper that does this, but you know, we've seen
in the past owners flying around on the private jets
to scout players, owners at Pro day workouts, and it
never works out. Leave it to the football people. You
brought Scott Fitter in for a reason, you brought in
(14:32):
Frank Rifer. Leave the decision to them, and I agree
with you. Yeah, they need a quarterback. Obviously, they're going
to take a quarterback with everything that they gave away.
And remember this isn't the first time, because they gave
away a ton of draft capital to the New York
Jets in order to trade for Sam Donald, So this
isn't the first time that they've done this. But you're right.
(14:53):
I absolutely agree with you. That's why I've said all
along that Anthony Richardson, in my opinion is the prototypical
boomer bus candidate in this year's draft. I mean, yeah,
he could turn out to be a great franchise quarterback,
you know, that can carry a team for years and years.
But you could also be a guy that breaks your heart.
You could be a Jamie Winston type of player. And
(15:14):
people say, well, you got a roll of dice. Well,
you know, the Carolina Panthers are rolling the dice and
they're giving away a lot of future draft capital, a
lot of future picks, you know, with the roll of
the dice. And what happens is if it doesn't work
out no more. It's not that you just didn't work
out with the player that you selected. You now lost
all those picks and you have multiple holes on your roster.
(15:38):
Now I'm with you, Tony, And look, I think when
when you take a look at that and when you
break it down the way you do, you know, when
it comes to Anthony Richardson, you know, I've made the
Cam Newton comparison here before, but it's more like a
physicality and a profile right like they they they're both huge,
the physically gifted. Richardson's a better faster run of than Newton.
(16:00):
Newton was I think a more polished passer than Richardson
was coming out. And I think the other big difference
due Cam Newton's like playing for national championships. I mean
he's a winner like that, dude one at every level.
He was like, He's done a lot more from that
perspective than Richardson has ever done. Now, now the Newton maybe,
I mean it's not like Newton was playing at Alabama.
Either's playing at Auburn. I mean, that's right exactly against Alabama.
(16:24):
That to me is what the difference is with those
two guys when you evaluate him. Cam Newton just simply
he was much more of accomplished player coming out than
he's done. He did so much more than Richardson's ever sniffed.
I'm one of those people that when it comes to quarterbacks,
I believe you gotta look at the body of work,
and the greater the body of work, the more successful
the quarterback is going to be. You know, these guys
(16:46):
that start for a year or two and then enter
the league, you know, it usually doesn't work out for
those guys. Trevior Lawrence, I mean, Trevor Lawrence was a winning,
consistent quarterback and he's you know, he's one of a kind.
I granted for three years at at Clemson. Go back
to Paint Manning. Paint Manning was a four year starter. Well,
(17:07):
he was a part time starter as a freshman at Tennessee.
You've got to look at the body of work, and
even if you're honest with yourself, even Anthony Richardson's body
of work is not that good on the college level.
He didn't carry that Florida team. I mean they lost
to Vanderbilt. You go back and watch the Florida State game,
which they lost to Florida State. Complete in thirty three
(17:27):
percent of his passes and the throws were all over
the place. Yeah, he looks great and shorts and a
T shirt throw on the ball. But when there's eleven
guys on the field and he's got to read the
defense and he's got to find the safety, and he's
gotta you know, he's got people breathe them down his neck,
it's a different story. That's why I believe, that's why
I think he's a huge bus He's got a huge
(17:48):
bus factor here because there is no body. The body
of work there is minimal, and what we've seen has
not been off the chart successful at all. Yeah, and look,
and I think I almost don't want the Panthers to
to draft Richardson because I think they're gonna feel a
lot of pressure to play him right away because of
what they gave up to get him. And he is
not ready, like he he needs to have a full
(18:08):
season on the bench watching. Look, can you run packages
for him where you take advantage of athleticism and all
that sort of stuff? Sure, But I mean even you know, talking,
you know, listening to other guys who covered the draft,
like like we do Tony, you know, and you know,
Dame Brugler reported this over the weekend that talking the
NFL teams are like it's you know, you sit down
with him in these meetings and there's a lot he
(18:29):
just doesn't know because he hasn't played a lot. I mean,
just what was he of thirteen starts in his career
or something like that. It's just it's just not a
lot of football, which is why And I think I'm
probably a little bit higher on you know Will Levis
than you are, Tony, but I think at least when
you look at it, he started for two years. His
tape this year was rough. It was not good. Now,
the talent around him was bad. He played injured the
(18:51):
whole year with some serious stuff. He changed, the offensive
coordinator got changed on him. You go back to his
twenty one tape, there's stuff on there that you're like,
all right, look like the he moved the ball against Georgia,
Like they did a nice job in that Georgia game
against a really good Georgia team two years ago. So
I do think there's a little bit more there. But
I think both guys are probably not ready at the
(19:11):
NFL level to step in and play right away, and
Richardson even more so than Levis. You know, you say,
if you draft Richardson, you got to sit him for
a year. I absolutely agree with you. Now, there are
some people that say, well, he doesn't have experience. The
way he's going to get better is by inserting him,
is it, though? I mean, if if he's your opening
day starter, you could ruin him. That's true. I understand
(19:35):
playing him, but if you want to piecemeal him in it,
if you want to put him in at the end
of the games. I wouldn't start him, have him to
be your starting quarterback in September October. You want to
put him in the second half, you want to put
him in. Listen. The fact is this. The curve is
so much steeper in the NFL from college compared to
college football in so many ways. And I'm gonna just
(19:55):
talking about the speed on the field. I'm talking about
the learning curve. I'm talking about the meetings that you
go to. I'm talking about the conditioning everything. The curves
are so much steeper on the NFL level than they
are in the Clouds level. I mean, it's so much
information being thrown it's too and it's the ability to
absorb and understand and use that information. I can understand
(20:17):
why people want Anthony Richardson to play, you know, his
first year in the league. I just think that if
you start him, if you expect him to be your
opening day starter, it could lead to ruin. Yeah, look,
I agree, and I think it's problematic. So then we're
talking Tony about either Bryce Young or CJ. Stroud. And
you know, we talked about this briefly on our in
(20:38):
our combined review. I was also impressed with c J.
Stroud at that with this throwing session at the combine,
I thought he was smooth, he was accurately through a
nice ball. I expected all that. I mean, if you
watch him on tape, we talked about it. He's the
most accurate. You know, his accuracy is as great as strength.
You know, he doesn't have a cannon, but I thought
he's Actually his deep ball actually impressed me more than
I thought it would at the combine, he through a
(21:00):
really nice deep ball, show a real good arm strength.
But he is touch. He thoes a good ball, he
spends it. He's accurate. Like I know, people like, oh
he was great. I kind of off the tape, I
thought he was gonna do that. That's what he That's
the strength of Ohio State, like people. Maybe they people
don't think about it this way, but he should. CJ.
Stroud is like an old school NFL pocket passer, Like
that's what he is. That's what he does. He's a
(21:21):
technician back there. He's an accurate thrower. So to me,
I wouldn't move him up a lot based on what
he did at the combat because I expected that. That's
what I already knew about the guy, you know what
I mean. And again, and he's not a mobile as
we saw in that Georgia game. He can get outside
the pocket. And you know, I had to be redundant.
I mean, which CJ. Stroud are we going to get
(21:42):
at the next level. Are we gonna get to CJ.
Stroude we saw against Georgia in the semifinal game. Are
we gonna get to CJ Stroud we saw the prior
year against Utah and the Rose Bowl. Or are we
gonna get to CJ Stroud that we saw, you know
during most of the year in two twenty two, which
the team started slow, the CJ. Stroud which basically fit
l two years in a row, horribly against Michigan, a
(22:03):
good Michigan defense. And again, you know, I thought myself,
but CJ. Strudd, I agree with you, and we said
this before, and the combine is set up for a
guy like CJ. Stroud. I didn't think his depasses they
were nice. I didn't think they were all that accurate.
I expected more accuracy. He did hit the wire from
one of those throws for the UK. It was kind
(22:23):
of actually funny. Um, But again, I don't know how
much of it was the problems at CJ. Stroud, howd
old House State were his versus the Olhouse State coaching
staff over coaching him, because as I've said time and
time again, you know, he'd be up at the line
of scrimmage, he'd be in the pocket and he's looking
at the sidelines and the play clock is sticking down
six five for and he's waiting for direction. Rather than
(22:46):
letting CJ. Stroud play that semi final game against Georgia,
they let him play and he was brilliant. That's the CJ.
Stroud that I think, you know, that's the one we're
going to get. That's the one I hope we're going
to get. But again, you know everything, you know, we
talk about Anthony Richardson's, you know, a body of work.
C J. Richardson only played two years. He played. He
was more successful on the cause he had a lot
(23:07):
more a lot more talent in front of him and
around him than Anthony Richardson. But he still only has
a two year body work, although he did did a
solid job at the Ohio State. Yeah. Look, and I'll
just say this too, and I'm not one to scout
the helmet. What a previous player did. Has nothing to
do with the current player, but you brought it up
in your last answer, Tony. The Ohio State offensive system
scares me a little bit. It's just not an NFL.
(23:28):
That's not as system you can run the NFL where
you basically sit back there and you your wide receivers
who are better than everyone else, you know, run around
and get open, and you just sit there and you wait, like,
that's not what the NFL is. So I wonder what
the learning curve is going to be for him going
from the Ohio State system to the NFL for him
as well. And then finally, let me just say one
(23:49):
thing on that, Yeah, please go ahead. What bothered me was,
you know, he was just zoned in on a few receivers.
He rarely used the tight end the last two years,
even though we had a real good one and twenty one.
Jerry may Rutgerd you know, you go back and we
talked about this last year. Basically, Chris Alave was the
forgotten man in a twenty twenty one offense going to
Garrett Wilson, Marvin Harrison Junior. I mean, chrisia and we
(24:12):
stow what a good receiver is a good receiver. Chris
Allavey isn't now Again, I don't know if that's a
play design. I don't know if that's something where he's
not looking around to see all the receivers. But yeah,
that has to be a concern. Yeah. Look, I'm with
you one hundred percent. Finally, Bryce Young, Look, I'm still
a Bryce Young guy. If I'm picking first, that's the
guy I'm picking. I know the size scares people. I
get it. I'd be a little scared too, And look,
(24:34):
waiting at two hundred and four pounds whatever you know,
don't No one believes he's actually two hundred and four pounds,
and that's fine. But look, he can play football, and
I just I don't know why a team would have
to wait to watch him at his pro day. I've
seen enough. If I don't see that guy throw again
before the combine, before the draft, I don't care. Whatever.
I know what he can do. I've seen it in games.
So I guess talk about Bryce. And then if you
(24:55):
had the guests right now, Tony, who do you think
the Panthers do take with that first pick? Well, I
think right now I'm gonna say c J. Strab though,
Anthony Richardson's in the conversation getting back to Bryce Young,
I think you know what happens with the prod age,
what happens with the with the one on one workouts
is the teams will ask the quarterback to throw certain
(25:16):
passes that are relevant to the system that they implement,
to see if he can throw those types of passes.
That's what teams want to see. I completely agree with you, right,
I mean, you know, if if Bryce Young was two
inches tall at three inches taller and fifteen pounds, every year,
we're talking about a guy who's graded higher than Trevor Lawrence.
Yes hell Burrow Trevor Lawrence territory. That's all right, And
(25:37):
don't tell me about the you know, the talent around
Alabama because this year he did not have the same
offensive line in front of him as he twenty twenty one.
He didn't have a fraction of the weapons at his disposal,
and he was brilliant. He was absolutely brilliant. And that
is my type of quarterback. I am willing to give
up arm strength for God that gets it between the
ears and guy who's clairvoyant, and that's what Bryce Young is.
(26:00):
You know, I there's a few people said, oh, Houston
made a mistake. They should be tanked, which which is ridiculous.
You're not tanking a the NFL to get that first pick.
I think Houston's fine where they're at. You know, if
they don't get if they like Thho, I'll get ths
out because he goes to taking a bright shop, you know.
And again, regardless of whatever team takes him bright young,
you've got to protect him. You've got to make sure
(26:21):
there are a players in front of him that can
keep them up right, because he's not going to be
able to take the beating on Sunday that he took
against Tennessee in that game and constantly pull himself off
the field and get back into the get back into
the huddle. All right, So before we say goodbye, we're
gonna be a little shorter today because this is a
big free agency week and a lot of needs and
stuff are gonna change based on free agency. We don't
(26:41):
get too deep into all that. We'll do that next week.
We'll react. It's everything that happened in terms of teams
and heaves with free agency. So Tony, before we let's
get into this one last topic before we go and
you kind of touch it on your last answer, What,
in your opinion is the impact of this trade on
what happens now after the first pick in the draft.
(27:02):
And yeah, it's a good question because now obviously there's
gonna be one less quarterback available after the Houston Texans pick, right,
because we thought that Chicago is going to take one
of the two defensive players Will Anderson and Jylen Quarter.
I think the impact can only be really known when
we find out what the situation with Jalen Carter, what
happens legally with Jalen Carter, because that will determine how
(27:25):
far he falls. You know, are the Raiders going to
take a quarterback with that pick? Are the Raiders gonna
take Will Levis? I mean there's gonna be there's likely
to be a quarterback available to the Raiders. Are they
gonna take a quarterback? Are they going to go with
an offensive lineman? So I think the Raiders are probably
not too happy because they're not gonna have their pick
(27:45):
a quarterbacks because there's gonna be one less quarterback on
the board. I mean maybe that's where Will Levis goes.
If Josh McDaniel fields, he could work with them but again,
I don't think it really affects that many teams because
because you know, after Caroline, after Houston, after you know,
the Raiders, how many other teams who are looking for
(28:05):
a quarterback in the top ten? Well Colts and I think, yeah, no,
that's okay, But I think that's the team to touch
on here, right, You're right, the Texans are good whomever
whatever guy they like that that the Panthers don't pick. Now,
So there's two teams I think that I think this
impact You mentioned the Raiders. They might now have to
move up if someone might not get to them. Right,
(28:26):
So the Cardinals now are sitting with the lottery ticket, right,
they're the first team that doesn't need a quarterback now
that has a draft pick. So does a team want
to get in front the Indianapolis here to go get
that quarterback before the Colts pick? Do the Colts want
to move up so they can at least get the
third quarterback and not wait for the fourth one of
number four? I think that's fascinating. Now, what did the
(28:48):
Cardinals do who have an injury a quarterback? They're not
going to try to win this year, they're in rebuild mode.
Do they try to turn that third pick. Now, you're
not going to get the assets that the Bears got
for the Panther from the from the Panthers for the
first of all pick. But do the Cardinals now try
to auction off that pick so a team can go
get the quarterback they wanted three if they're still on
the board, And does that have to wait until draft
(29:09):
day because you don't know who's going off one two?
I apologize to CaAl Fence, completely blanked out zone down
on that one. You know, listen, the last time we
had three quarterbacks go one, two, three, it was Trevor Lawrence,
Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. So and you know the
Niners made a big move for Trey Lanson for whatever reason,
he's not worked out. I think obviously the Cardinals are
(29:31):
likely gonna shop that pick to get more draft capital.
You know, again, it's only eye of the beholder. I mean,
what do teams think of that third quarterback? Are they
willing to give away a lot or they willing to
give away picks to move up to get that third quarterback?
If it's me, the answers no. But you know, I'm
not in a position to make those decisions, and I'm
not running a team that needs a quarterback, so I
(29:55):
think it makes sense that Caroline is gonna start to
shop that pick. We'll just see how desperate team hard
to move up and get one of the quarterbacks, if
in fact they are that desperate. Do you think Jare
Mercy is really annoyed right now? I mean, I mean
you got to imagine you're the Colts. You know, at
least two quarterbacks are gone now when you're picking it
for maybe a third at the Cardinals do trade for
a team? What do you do now? If you're in Annapolis?
(30:17):
You know? Is he annoyed? I mean it works both ways.
Remember they made the trade down with the Jets, or
the Jets could trade Sam Don't move up to get
Sam Don't. And they got a great offensive lineman. So
you know, I think there's something to be said for
waiting for the draft to come to you and then
take it from there. Is he upset? You know? They
got a new a new quarterback coach in there, so
(30:37):
I'm sure he feels that whatever, and the quarterback coach
work wonders with a guy that was, you know, selected
late in the second round. So I don't think I
don't is er say ur He's probably irked about a
lot of things, Jamercy, but as he irked about this,
you know, I don't if he's smart, leave it to
the football people. Just let the football people worry about
(30:59):
it and uh, you know, sign the checks. Hey. Look,
and but Chris ballas trying to save his job here, right, Tony.
I mean, you know he really is. So this is
gonna be a big decision for him. Now does he
move up to three? Does he stay at four? And
you know, the last thing you want to do is
to just say, oh, we need a quarterback, will pick
the one that's left. If you don't believe in the guy,
that's gonna sabotage the whole thing from the beginning. The
(31:21):
amazing thing about Ballard is is Ballard has has had
so much success in the draft at other positions and
other areas, but the quarterback spot has been has been
a sore spot for him. After Philip Rivers, it's been
a disaster or for the cult. So you're right about that.
I mean, I don't know that they got to win
right away, but they got to get somebody behind center
that shows that they've got some longevity and that they
(31:44):
are the player of the future. Yeah, they really do.
And then again, you know the Seahawks at five, you
know that Geno Smith deal, you can get out after
one year or do they wanted to, Like I think
that would be a great spot if a team that
would actually fit with Richardson's the Seahawks absolutely know. You
can even let Gino st two years if you want,
and then you slide Richardson in like that to me,
and even Levis, you could put Levis there too, week
(32:05):
instead the year and then you can figure it out.
That to me is a good spot for those guys
because there's no pressure for the quarterback to step in
and play right away. And you know that Gino Smith
is going to be a great mentor. You know, Gino
Smith has had an up and down the NFL career.
I'm glad to see that he's had some success, you know,
But Gino Smith is a genuine guy. He's not going
to be a guy that winds and complains if they
(32:27):
draft a quarterback early on. He's gonna go out there
and show what he can do and he's gonna be
a good mentor. So I agree with I thought it
all along with that second pick in the first round.
If they signed Gino Smith, that would be a good
spot for Anthony Richardson. That looks like it's not gonna happen. Yeah,
that might be in the first round. I should say, yeah, might,
it might be in number five. It's crazy if they
do it all, right, Tony, I guess before we say goodbye,
(32:49):
any other draft thoughts top of mine year as we
head into free agency week? Yeah, I mean with free agency,
the draft takes takes a back seat with all the
free agency craziness, and it's on this Annibal because what
we see happen the next week is going to dictate
where teams may shift their draft boards. Because if they're
able to fill a need at left ackle, if they're
(33:09):
able to fill a need at receiver, if they're able
to fill a need at cornerback, you can scratch that
off as far as being a need on draft Day. Yeah,
we'll keep an eye in that all week. Stay tuned.
We'll cover it right here on all of our podcasts
here in the Giants podcast Network, Big Blue King, Golf, Live,
Giants Huddle, all that great stuff. If you're a Giant fan,
if you're just tuning in for draft coverage. You'll be
(33:31):
back next week, probably early next week. We'll try to
do Monday or Tuesday next week, and we'll get really
a feel for how the draft landscape has changed with
free agency. And I'm sure we'll get a lot of
veteran trades too, maybe some more draft trades as well
over the next week. And we have Pro days too
that I know Tony is tracking fastidiously that we'll have
all the updates on you like that one. Cover it
up next week. Odd draft season for Tony Pauline. I'm
(33:53):
Josh Felk. We'll see everybody next time.
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