February 2, 2023 • 32 mins
John Schmeelk and Tony Pauline chat about which players stood out at the Shrine Bowl and Senior Bowl practices, discuss different position groups, and highlight players who can play multiple positions. 00:00 - Shrine Bowl standouts 06:14 - Senior Bowl standouts 12:26 - National Team 16:49 - Running backs 24:29 - Defensive linemen
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is draft season. We're here in Mobile, Alabama, just
before the final day of practice between the American and
National teams. John Schmolke, Tony Pauline with you. We'll give
you a little bit of a shorter episode today and
then we'll recap the games and everything last week, and
we'll talk about some Shrine Bowl practices that Tony was
at in Las Vegas as well. I hope you guys
are doing well out there. It's been fun down here
(00:30):
so far. We had the first day here was about
eighty five degrees in sunny. Were the very palerfolk attending
this all got sunburned, including me. It was not fun.
And then we were back to our normal rainy, cloudy
and general you know, dreariness and the you know sixties
with a little bit of rain. But that's what we
used to in Mobile, so that was good. Tony. It's
good to see you, man. I guess we can start
(00:51):
here with with Shrine right. Um, you were in Vegas
before you got here to Mobile. Um, I haven't had
a chance to watch any of the practice head yet,
so we're gonna rely on you here. What did you
see uh at Shrine that that really jumped out at you. Well,
I think the first thing is the best quarterback in
any of these games was at the Shrine ball, and
that was Aidan O'Connell. I perdue, I mean, because you
know we'll probably talking about the senior quarterbacks. But ad
(01:12):
O'Connell played relatively well. I didn't have the knockout week
that I was expecting or i'd hope, but he was.
He established himself as a leader and he's got a
big time warm I think when you look at it,
there were three cornerbacks who really stood out at try
and game practice, Miles Brook of Louisiana Tech, Terrell Smith
of Minnesota, Cottrell Clark of Louisville. Ritrell Clark was phenomenal.
(01:35):
I mean, one of the receivers who did well last
week was a T Perry of Wake forest Rick Cheral.
Clark was the only cornerback who could stop a T Perry.
He was making plays in man, he was making plays
backed off the line of scrimmage, and he made plays
each day all three days of practice. So I think
Contrell Clark really left the Shrine game with an approved
(01:56):
draft grade. Terrell Smith is somebody who wasn't even on
the scoutch Radar prior to the season. He's a track
and field athlete who was developing into a cornerback, and
as the week went on, he progressed, and I think
he leaves with improved draft grades. Miles Brooke of Louisiana Tech.
I had been writing about him since October. Uh, he
was good all week long. I mean from the from
(02:16):
the first day of practice through the last day. He
was making place. And he showed a lot of leadership too.
I mean he was out there uh really cheering on
his teammates, helping guys. Uh. So that works. So I
think those three cornerbacks really stood out. Some offensive players
as well. Alright, some offensive players as well. I mean
the Mario Douglas, Uh, the small wide receiver from Liberty.
(02:40):
Everybody was talking about Zay Flowers and Zay Flowers from
the receiver from Boston College practice one day. The Mario
Douglas practice three days and nobody could cover him. I
mean he was his He ran quick, precise, sharp routes
where he separated from opponents. He had a burst of speed.
He was basically a poor man's version of Zay Flowers.
(03:01):
And I think the Mariel Douglas is from Liberty, is
a guy who left the Shrine game with really improved
draft grades. You mentioned Flowers only practiced one day, and
the one day of practice, what you see from him,
he was good. And even that one day of practice
he didn't take reps all the time. I mean, he
was sparingly taking reps, but when he was at the
line of scrimmage, nobody could cover him. I mean his
(03:21):
his route running is crisp and sharp, and he separates,
he catches the ball very well. He was out of
practice all three days, but he was only dressed for
practice for one day. Uh. Showed a decent burst of speed.
You know, he knows he's got it going on, There's
no doubt about it. You could see that he's confident
and that he's looking forward to the next level. And
(03:42):
I think part of the uh, the value of being
there is the fact that all thirty two teams on
hand got to interview him. Yeah, no question about it.
Very valuable. Some people have projected him as a first
round pick, which I think in a normal wide receiver year,
a guy at that size. I think he mentioned with
like five something like that, right, Um, I feel like
that's not typical. So just what what what's your thought
(04:04):
of the thoughts on him as an overall prospect and
kind of where he would fit in this class and
also in the normal wide receiver year. Well, I think
a lot will depend on how he runs at the
combine and his testing marks at the combine. I interviewed
him and he told me he expects to run in
the four threes. Now I would agree with you in
the sense that if you go in the past two
(04:25):
receiver dress past three receiver drefts, he's probably a early
to midsecond round choice. But the receiver position is up
for grabs. Now. You know, you've got Quentin Johnston of TCU,
who is a big athletic, you know, athletes at the
receiver position, but he's not polished. And then you have
Jordan Addison and Save Flowers who are very polished at
(04:46):
their craft. So it's a matter of you know's a Flowers.
He's gonna have limitations because of his size and the scheme.
If he's a good fit for your system, you may
consider taking him at the bottom half of round one. Interesting,
and we'll obviously talk more about the wide receivers as
we go along here anyone else from Shrine tell me
that you want to mention before we jump over to
(05:07):
the Senior Bowl. And for any Orgy was a linebacker
from Vandervelt. I mean he looks the part. He looks
the Party's a big stock guy and he played very well.
Uh DeShawn Johnson de Shwan Johnson of Toledo is a
guy that we talked about with Eric Galco when we
did the preview of this game. Some of the offensive
lineman told me that he was the toughest guy to
block all week because he's so quick and he's explosive.
(05:29):
Kazimir Alan, the running back from U C l A a
a smaller guy, but he was sort of like the
receiver version of Za Flowers, if you will, because he's
so quick, He's got such great footwork. He was able
to make defenders misbounce around piles. A lot of teams
don't know what position because Kasimir Allan's gonna play at
the next level, and he played running back most of
the week, but he also took some reps at the
(05:51):
receiver spot because some teams project him as a receiver.
Also a good return specialist, so I think he helped
himself and Obviously, the Shrine Game is being played on
Thursday night. That's a little bit later today, the day
we're recording. You could be listening to this potentially after
the Shrine Game has been played. We will review the
Shrine game itself and the Senior Bowl game itself on
next week episode, but we're gonna talk about the practices
(06:12):
a little bit this week. All right, Tony, let's jump
over to the Senior Bowl here in Mobile, and we
were just talking about the wide receivers and A Flowers,
So I guess we can start there. Who are some
of the guys there that that really jumped out of you? Um,
I know, Nathaniel Del is a guy that you're a
big fan of. I thought Jayden Reid out of Michigan
State had a really nice week to talk about those
guys and anyone else at wide receiver that that you
(06:33):
think really helped themselves. Well, you know, we talked about
Za Flowers and Shrine and his projection. I mean, no
one's been able to cover Tank Creed this week, Nathaniel Dell.
No one's been able to cover I'm all over the place.
No one's been able to cover Nathaniel Tank Del this week.
I mean from day one. Uh, you know, they can't
cover him in or out of routes when he's open,
(06:53):
when he's in space, he's gotta burst to speed. He's
constantly taking it downfield. He's done a great job seen
the ball. He was good on Tuesday, he was better
on Wednesday. I think the only blip in his game
was they had him returned punts and he dropped the
two punts that he was supposed to field. That was
the only bad portion. But you know, as they put
it put it on Twitter yesterday, nobody and I mean
(07:15):
nobody has been able to cover a tank hell here. Yeah,
And just to bring up so fans understand, Nathaniel Tank
dell out of Houston wide receiver just five eight and
a hundred and sixty three pounds. We talked about Zay
Jones's size, well, one sixty three. That's gonna raise a
lot of big red flags or some NFL teams. You
know it will. But the fact is this, you gotta
(07:36):
put him in a system where you're line them up
in the slot, you pack them up off the minor scrimmage,
You get him off a press coverage and if he
gets uh, you know, a running start on defenders. He's
gonna be tough to cover. Now, you know you don't
want to put him in traffic because he's gonna get pounded.
But you know, listen, I mean we're in a day
and age where you know quarterbacks that are six ft
(07:58):
or maybe five eleven and a half for going with
the first pick of the draft, and ten years ago
you never would have thought that's possible. And it's not
so much about the six ft four receiver anymore. It's
about the guy that can get separation through his routes,
which is what Dell does. Yeah, why don't we stick
with the American team since you're on del here? Uh
Dan'tavian Wicks Tony a guy that that made a couple
of while plays and a couple of times I had
(08:18):
had trouble getting open, To be quite honest with you,
um a couple of the guys. I thought Rashi Rice
had had a nice first day. The second day, I
went back and I rewatched the one on ones. The
guys were holding him left right, and he just had
trouble separating. But I don't think it was his fault
because he was just getting grad. They kept pulling his
Jersey Um at that wide receiver spot and then Davier Hutchinson,
and I think what we knew about Davier Hutchinson coming
(08:40):
into this Tony is kind of what we've seen. He's
a crafty wide receiver. He's got good length, he's got
good hands, But that burst and pull away speed, I'm
not sure you see that on a consistent play by
play basis because he doesn't have it. I mean, he's
not gonna go to the combine and run the fourth
three leg. Zave Flowers is saying he's gonna do. But
you know, he knows how to get open, and he
gets he gets consistently catches the ball. You you mentioned
(09:04):
Octavian Wicks of Virginia, and I agree with you. I
mean there were sometimes where you're like, wow, if he
could do that consistently, this guy is a day to pick,
but that would that's his m O. I mean, that's
what it was last year at Virginia. They had quarterback
issues there, but he was never consistently productive. I do
think that we've seen some good things from the hometown guy,
Jalen Wayne here who was made a lot of nice receptions.
(09:27):
You know, more of your Xavier Hutchinson type of intermediate
possession receiver. Not a guy that's going to stretch the field,
but a guy that gets up and competes to come
away with the reception. Yeah, he did make a couple
of plays. I also bring up a local guy, andre
Yeshiva's out of Princeton Um. He showed pull away speed.
The one thing that that kind of stuck with me.
Though I watched some of his get offs at the
line of scrimmage. His acceleration is not great. If I
(09:49):
feel like he's one of these build up guys that
that needs a little bit of a runway to get
to that full speed or he needs to learn to
do it. Because he was a sixty meter champion, indoor
track and field champion, he's actually a heptathlete and athlon
uh guy. I spoke with his dad at length yesterday.
We talked about his athletic history, getting into the cathlon
and then moving to football. I think with Uh with him,
(10:11):
it's just a matter of learning to use that speed.
He's got to get off the line quicker. He's got
to basically come out of the blocks quick as he
would in the sixty meters, and he's got to become
a much better route runner. YEA, let's jump to the
national team, Tony. I didn't think you had quite the
group of wide receivers on the national team as we
did on the American team. Ronnie Bell out of Michigan
had some moments, but I don't think anything that that
(10:33):
really necessarily wows you. Um Elijah Higgins, he's twenty eight.
A lot of NFL teams see him as a move
tight end. We talked about that with Jim Nagy in
our preview of the Senior Bowl last week, and you know,
nobody at wide receiver to me for the national team
really kind of jumped out. Though Jayden Reid was somebody
I wasn't that familiar with from Michigan State. He's five.
(10:53):
I thought, of all the guys on on this roster,
I thought he was separating pretty consistently, could win across
the field, get in that of his brakes well, could
win all at the top. I thought he really did
well for himself out of Michigan State. And I believe
the data showed that he was one of the fastest
and not the fastest receiver on the field, which is
surprising because you would have thought it was tank Dell,
but yeah, I read was he looks like the finished product.
(11:14):
He looks like the polished The receiver ran good routes,
consistently caught the ball, plays with excellent balance and body control.
He tracks the pass in the air, got vertical and
was able to contort and use the sidelines well to
come away with the reception. I think Michael Wilson of
Stanford has also had a lot of good moments here.
Really good route runner, I mean not tanked l but
close to Jaden read and that he gets he separates
(11:36):
from from routes. And you know, everybody likes to talk
about the receiver that runs the four threes. NFL teams
here want to see those guys that can run those
routes and and get separation through the routes because that's
just as important because you're not consistently throwing the ball
thirty forty yards down the field in the NFL as
as uh compared to the number of times you're running
eight yard routes or six yard routes or ten yard routes,
(11:58):
and you need to separate from defenders. And that's what
Jaden Reid and Michael Wilson have been able to do
the past two days. All right, let's jump over here
and now talk a little bit about the cornerbacks. He's
the guys trying to cover these wide receivers, and obviously
these one on ones is not an ideal position for
these cornerbacks to be in. It's very difficult. You have
two a goos usually and it's just very difficult for
these guys to stay with him with all that open
(12:19):
field and no help over the top, which often is
not the case when you're playing corner in the National
Football League or in college for that matter. So I'll
bring a couple of guys from the national team. We'll
start there first. Tony Um. I thought Kyo Blue Kelly
at of Stanford's played well. He had an interception, he
jumped a couple of routes, came up with one pick
uh six out of Stanford. Riley Moss, we talked about
him last week with Jim Nagy six fewo. He showed
(12:42):
his speed. I think he tracked as the fastest cornerback
at least and one of the days at practice, I
thought he had very good coverage, especially on go routes
down the sideline. And from the national team, those are
really the two guys to me that uh that jumped
out as much jumped out a lot because of their
play well. First Kyblue Kayblue Kelly of Stanford. It's kind
(13:02):
of ironic because when I watched him in drills and
the one on ones he was getting torched. It was
during scrimmage where he really stood out. I believe he
had two interceptions, uh in seven on seven and full scrimmage.
And there are a lot of people in the league
that like him. I know that we're talking about corners.
I'm gonna throw some safeties in here. And Sydney Brown
of Illinois was out of sight. I mean, Sydney Brown
(13:23):
showed cornerback type ball skills yesterday. He Sydney Brown. If
you watch him from Illinois, he's a fun guy to
watch because he's a smaller guy at five five ft
ten inches, but he he flies around the field and
he basically sacrifices his body to make the tackle. Yesterday,
we saw outstanding ball skills from Sydney Brown. In one
(13:43):
on ones. He looked like he would not be a
liability if you line him up over the slot receiver
and that's worth that's weight in gold here. I mean
if you can show cover skills like that in one
on ones here and you're a safety because the safeties
are usually getting torched in those one on one drills.
Sydney Brown looked like, you know, he was a natural
at it, so he really helped himself. Yeah, I think
we saw the same. And I'll jump to the American
(14:05):
team now, Tony Christopher Smith at a Georgia. You know,
he's a safety. He's only five ten one eight eight,
so you expect he has really good movement skills and
he did. You know, the first day he was doing
one on ones against tight ends and running backs and
they had no chance against him. And then the Lanta
against wide receivers on Wednesday on day two and I
thought he did a really good job covering them as well. Uh,
Jamie Robinson, the safety out of Florida States, same deal.
(14:25):
He covered some wide receivers um on day two of
practice at five ten one and and those are two
guys where you know, you have that kind of star
position now in the NFL. Now it's kind of come
up from college a little bit where the safety that
that that's also going to kind of play cover corner
for you and step up in the slot. I think
those two guys really fit that Bill well. Yeah, Smith
is one of my Uh, I'm sorry. Uh. Smith is
(14:46):
one of my favorite dbs I foot all along. He's
very underrated. He's a good run defender. He showed good
ball skills the past two years. He showed them here.
I think when it comes to a Christopher Smith of Georgia,
it's gonna come down to his forty time. How fast
he runs? Can he get in the high four fours,
the low five, low four fives? Uh, he needs to
do that. You know, we talked about Otavian Wis and
(15:08):
the inconsistency. If there was a Dontavian Wis at the
defensive back spot, it's Tyreek Stevenson of Miami. Because there
were times he physically he looks very impressive. He's long,
he's athletic, he's lean, he's explosive, and occasionally he makes
some outstanding plays. But as you said, the pett Cup plays,
in practice, his technique is all over the place and
(15:29):
he gets very sloppy. And then there are times when
he should make plays, he gets beat and you wonder,
you know what's going on. Yeah, And although a couple
of guys out too. I thought Julius Brents had a
great first day, and I thought yesterday, I went back
and I rewatched the one on ones. He had a
couple of rough reps on Wednesday, so I want to
see how he bounces back in practice today. But he's
six three, he's got good movement skills. I think teams
(15:50):
are gonna fall in love with his traits a lot.
And then the guy that I wasn't familiar with Tony
before we got here is Darius Rush, the defensive back
out of South Carolina. He had an interception over the
course of the first of days and I thought he's
frankly covered pretty well in those tough one on one
situations as well. Yeah, he has, he's had his mom's
I also like what Chamari Connor of Virginia Tech has
done at times. I mean, Virginia Tech. The program has
(16:12):
been down the past couple of years, but he's had
a few situations, a few plays in both one on
ones and scrimmage where Connor of of Virginia Techmarick Connor
stood out. It's got real good size, six five pounds.
You know, you mentioned Julius brent and that's his game.
I mean, he is a long, athletic, physical corner that's
gonna blow people away at the combine. He looks great
(16:34):
on the hoof. There were times when he's able to
shut down opponents, but as we saw a couple of
times yesterday, even in the Big twelve title game, there
are other times where he's getting torched. So you know,
he's a good athlete who really has to develop into
a full time cornerback. All right, let's kind of move
from the smaller guys out of the bigger guys. We'll
get to the guys up front. Last. Let's talk a
(16:55):
little bit about the running backs here, because I thought
this was a really good running back group. Tony Roshan
Johnson on fortunately he had to leave after the first
day of practice with a hand injury. Six five, He
showed his power as ability to run the football. I
thought he looked really good when he had a chance
Chase Brown five fifteen. I thought he should did a
really nice job showing off his ability. And again it's
it's it's it's really tough with with with running backs here.
(17:16):
But I thought the two guys on the American team
were the ones that that really stood out to me
and you can bring up any of these guys you want.
You know, Kenny McIntosh had a Georgia. He left the
first practice with a cramp, came back second day, look great,
rat running was excellent, had a big run up the middle.
And then for me, the star, I think maybe the
guy that's impressed me the most has been TAJE. Spears.
Like we we know from the film what he can do,
(17:37):
but to see it up close and personal. The quickness,
the burst, the pull away speed throw on top of
that division, he just gets through the line really quick.
I think Taj Spears, you know, has secured himself as
as a at worst early third round, probably second round pick,
and if he's in a timeshare, he's gonna be a
really explosive player on the next level. You look at
his hand size to ten inch hands and he's goods
(18:00):
ever out of the backfield, those ten inch hands may
catching the ball very easy. Listen, Taj Spears has proven
he's here. He's the real deal. It's not that he
was playing in the American Athletic Conference and he was
beating up on lesser competition. Because you mentioned the burst,
the quickness and speed. I also love the vision the patients.
He's not a guy that just takes off a field.
(18:20):
You can see him, you know, when when the ball
is handed off for him, he's waiting for his blocks
to develop. He's finding the whole. As I said, you know,
he's a shorter guy at five five n and a half.
And what happens is sometimes he's getting lost. He gets
lost behind his lineman and he runs with great with
great technique. He runs with good lean as they say,
he runs behind his pads, which when he gets tackled
(18:41):
he falls forward. But yet Taj Spears has definitely proven
that he is the real deal while he's here. There
was one other running back I thought, I c Evan
Hull of Northwestern has had his moments here. Uh you know,
he was huge production at Northwestern. Another smart guy. He's
a little bit bigger, two fourteen pounds, but he sees
(19:03):
the whole and he gets through it with author DEATH
thought he's done well. Yeah, I thought, Eric Gray two
from Oklahoma has had a couple of nice runs too.
And the one guy, Taj Spears reminds me a little
bit of I don't think he has quite as the
power was the running back last year out of Michigan State,
who was kind of also a load of the ground,
similar build. I think they have a couple of things
that might be in common there, those spears. As you mentioned,
a better receiver tight ends Tony, I'll go with Luke
(19:23):
Musgrave out of Oregon State six five to fifty five.
Jim Nagy mentioned last week he thought he'd be a
big riser. This is really the first football he's played.
He's been rehabing a knee injury suffered back in September,
and I do think we see some rusts there in
terms of what he's trying to do. But the size,
the ability to separate, I mean, you see all the
traits you want out of one of these big time
tight ends. Another guy with big hands, ten and a
half inch hands, and you know that that's something that
(19:45):
looked at. He's also got thirty two and a half
inch long arms, which is good for a tight end.
But you know, you mentioned he uh, he hasn't played
a lot of football this year because he was injured.
And there were a couple of people who said, to me, yeah,
he looks good, but he but the fact is he
looks like he's injured. And I think the fact that
you know, you see so many guys pull out at
these games, and here's Luke Luke Musgrave obviously performing under
(20:06):
a hundred percent, but he wants to perform and he's
performing well. I mean, you can see this guy's in athlete.
I've been told he's going to blow up the combine
at the tight end position. And let's go back to
what we talked about. There are some people who believe
that Michael Mayer of Notre Dame won't be the first
tight end taking it could be Luke Musgrave. I think
that Jim Naggy also told us that when we when
we spoke to him, and Musgrave has shown a lot
(20:29):
of ability this week and a lot of toughness. Yeah,
And I talked to Musgrave and he said, look, I've
just been dying to play football. I wanted to go
out there and play. That's why he works for To
get back to your point, Tony shows that he really
loves the game. And the other tight ends. I know
you were watching the tight end o of Miami Mallory
I think as well as some other guys. Yeah, Mallory's
been up and down. I mean he's a try hard guy.
But he's dropped to He's dropped a few passes where
(20:51):
he should have caught him. I think Davis Allen of
Clemson has caught the ball really well. I mean, he's
not a downfield tight end. He's your traditional three down
the blocker, intermediate intermediate pass catcher. I watched Pain Durham
yesterday and he was dominant in uh blocking jewels. I
mean he was. He would stun the opponents of the
(21:12):
linebackers and you could see they had to shake it
off after they got pounded by Durham. And he catches
the ball well. The only thing is is, you know,
he's a guy who's probably gonna run four, eight, five,
So he's a number two, number three tight end the
next level. He's not gonna get down the field thirty
yards on a consistent basis, which is what the teams
want these days, which means he's going to be a
later round pick, but he'll probably have a ten year
(21:34):
career in the NFL. All right, let's go to our
off ball linebackers. Tony de Winters had an interception the
other day. He got matched up a couple of times.
I rewatched the one on ones today. One on one
with ty J. Spears and coverage, and he stuck with
him a couple of times, and I was really impressed
by that little undersize, But I thought he showed really
good movement skills throughout any other linebackers really jumped out
(21:55):
to you. Yeah, Daly and hen Diane Henley of Washington
State is outstanding. He's outstanding in coverage reels. He's staying
downfield thirty yards with running backs and tight ends, showing
good ball skills. Not just running, you know, running down
and face guarding these guys and getting his hands up crazy. No,
he gets his hips around, he gets his head around,
(22:16):
he tracks the pass in the air. I thought he's
done very well. The Marvin Open Shore has shown things
on occasion, Ivan paced flash his ability, but he just
can't finish the play, which is a little bit disappointing.
I really haven't seen too much of Nick Hampton this week.
It really hasn't stood out, which is a bit surprising
because teams like him so much. You know, Will McDonald.
(22:36):
We talked about him with Jim Naggy beforehand. He's played
both linebacker and defensive ent. I think he's looked much
better moving up the field than moving in reverse. By
the way, Tony, I think he's been the best edge
rusher out there. Oh, he's the best athlete here without
of the of those front guys, you know. But the
thing is, you know, Will McDonald's six three and a
half two pounds. How's he going to hold up against
(22:58):
the run? So incredibly athletic long arms thirty five inch
long arms. Uh. But again, he's got to add some
more versatility to his game because you can't just rudge
rush wide angles on Sunday. That's not gonna work. All right,
let's go to the edge rushers. I think McDonald's the
perfect transition there, Tony. You know Isaiah Fosky's that double
(23:19):
back to back double digit sack seasons. I like to
see a guy like that that has a lot of
production and is a senior and has played a lot
of football. I want to see him be dominant in
a practice situation like this. I have not seen that. Um,
that's been a little bit disappointing for me. And then
you know, you have a lot of these kind of
tweener you know, smaller linebacker like Isaiah land is one
of these guys that has done a little bit in
the edge, but even against bigger tackles, you know, he
(23:41):
has not really one on the edge consistently. You know,
I really think for me at least, this has been
a little bit a bit of a disappointing defensive end
edge class. I have not seen guys out there really
dominating at some of these offensive tackles. I think apart
that's because the offensive tackles have actually played well here.
So I think kJ Henry of Clemson, who kind of
it falls under the radar because Clemson has so much
(24:02):
talent there. I think he's done very well. Keyon White,
although he's not a pure edge rusher of Georgia Tech.
Maybe we talking about the defensive ends. I thought he's
done well. Um, but yeah, I I mean even the
kid from Tennessee, Byron Young, he's been spotty out the
Gay of l s U really haven't seen him show up.
Derek Cole of Auburn. I mean they pretty much see
(24:24):
Dylan Hornton of TCU. I felt look good defending the run. Uh.
We know he's a pass rusher. We saw it against
during the season. We saw it against Michigan. A couple
of the question was how's he gonna hold up against
the run. I saw him go against a couple of
really good, really big defensive tackles able to hold his ground,
slow up and make plays against the run. But yeah,
there's not been a lot of pass rush potential here
(24:45):
or pass rush production here that teams would hope to see. Yeah,
Horton had a couple of rushes I thought on day
one that were pretty good. But on day two he
was quiet. Um and you mentioned why, I think I agree.
I think he's been probably one of the better defensive
ends in this group too. How about the guys inside, Well,
I mean, I think the guy who really stood out
for me is someone who plays inside and outside. And
I'm not even gonna try and pronounce his name. That's
(25:06):
the Northwestern kid. He's known as Tommy. Uh, get ahead,
if you want to say his name. I'm gonna give
it a shot here, God bless me, I have not
tried this at all. Added to mew At a beware,
and I'll just call him Tommy because that's what they
call him. Uh. You know, he was rejected to be
two hundred seventy pounds. He came into two four pounds.
(25:28):
He was unstoppable yesterday. I mean, there are a lot
of plays where the crowd would react and you would
look and there he was making another play behind the
line of scrimmage or just UH defense or just annihilating
the opponent. And he has really helped himself here, I
think the other guy that scout are raving about, and
he's constantly blowing past the opponent's uh a snap after
(25:49):
snap in uh in um uh one on ones as
well as scrimmages and Tom Benton of a Canoe Benton
of Wisconsin, I mean, he's been all over the place.
He's explosive, he's athletic. Uh he's annihilated one on one blocking.
He had a bit of a disappointing senior season and
when I asked, you know what the situation was, I
(26:11):
was told, well, the scheme it was constant. Constant asked
him to occupy the gaps rather than make plays. And
here we are at the senior ball he's allowed to
make plays and he's gotten good production. He's getting good results.
He has really helped himself. There are some people say
he could slide into the late first round. I don't
think he's a first round but it's not a great
defensive tackle class. It's a priority position called NFL draft time.
(26:33):
So it's one of those situations where you know he
could slide into the late part of a team. Two
is looking for defensive tackle. Yeah, and you know, I
think another guy, Um Redman they get out of Oklahoma.
He's a smaller defensive tackle. He's shown some good burst
getting up the field from time to time. But look,
I think your point when I asked about the pass
rushers is accurate, I think for the most part, and
(26:54):
I think it's a credit to the group because they're
at a disadvantage in these drills. I think the offensive
linemen have come out on top, and he's one on ones.
I think they've been better than the defensive lineman for
the most part. So let's go there at offensive tackle
Tony and you know, and actually I want to start
at the versatile guys. But I think you know, we've
seen Jim Naggy and these two coaching staffs do a
great job of moving guys around. Right, They've put guys
(27:14):
in different spots to give scouts an idea, Right, Well,
was he a tackler? Is he a guard? And I'll
throw some names out there. You can go whatever direction
you want. Matthew Bergeron out of Syracuse has maybe tackle,
play guard. He's done a really nice job. Cody Mock
out of North Dakota State has moved all over the line,
including center. By the way, I think he's done a
nice job. Steve a. Villa out of TCU, he's played
both sides and guard. He had some snaps at center yesterday.
(27:36):
I thought he did a really nice job. So uh
Osyrius Torrance, he's played right guard and left guard. I
think he's been good. So I think these guys that
have shown to be versatile players that can play maybe
a little bit of tackle, but maybe more both guard
spots and center have really been the star so far
early in these practices. And one guy that you left
out there is a meal Are of Alabama who's a
guard who's taken the majority of his snaps at center,
(28:01):
and he's looked really good at it. Now. I spoke
with his team yesterday and I said he's got to
improve his shotgun snaps because the ball is not coming
back cleanly to the quarterback at a good angle. But
I mean, he's a guy who's played guard all of
his career at Alabama just recently moved to center after
the season, and he's played exceptionally well. We've seen them
McClendon Curtis, who's played both guard spots and he's been
(28:24):
dominant to guard. That kicked him out to tackle. It
didn't work out, but you know, he's played. He's been
fantastic at the offensive guard. I think as m Richards,
the former North Carolina left tackle, has had his moments,
but he's also had his struggles at guard. But yeah,
I mean that's you want to see that versatility to
move around. You're gonna see what guys can and can't do,
(28:46):
and I think we've gotten a lot of it here.
I think John Michael Schmitz has solely played center, but
he's done a terrific job at it. I mean, he
is smart, he is strong, he is intense. You could
see him quarter acting the offensive line and making the calls.
There was one play yesterday when the American team was
running through the two minutes reel where Schmitz got five
(29:09):
yards downfield and just annihilated the UH the linebacker UH
to basically open up the lanes of the wide receiver
could pick up extra yards. It was the thing of
beauty to watch. Yeah, No, question about it, and then
before we say goodbye, Tony, I think some of the
offensive tackles, kind of the straight up guys have done
a good job as well. Uh, the right Kid out
(29:30):
of Tennessee, I think has been pretty good. He's a
guy that kind of jumped out of me. Who were
some of the offensive tackles that do you think have
done a nice job. Well, you gotta start with Dawan Jones,
who was I guess basically one and done. I mean,
he had a phenomenal practice on Tuesday at right tackle.
Phenomenal a sense that six eight seventy pounds thirty six
and a half inch arms, he showed much better footwork
(29:53):
and the ability to slide and the ability to handle
speed rushers than anyone would have ever thought. There's no
doubt about it. And now every one is in love
with the Dwan Jones and you know, understandably solid because
he was that good. And it's not just he was
blowing people off the ball. We know he can blow
people off the ball, but it's the ability to slide
off the edge and get to get his arms into
(30:14):
speed rushes and shut them down. At six eight and
three seventy By the way, which is what he did. So,
you know, and I guess he took his winnings in
any left because I don't think, you know, he wasn't
on the field on Wednesday. I don't think we're gonna
see him on Thursday. He's probably not gonna play in
the game. So I guess he's you know, he was
happy with that. I also think Jalen Duncan has done
(30:35):
a terrific job at left tackle. And this is something
we knew about Jalen Duncan, very athletic, very mobile, terrific footwork,
six five and a half pounds, a little bit slim,
thirty three and a half in charms, you which they
were more towards thirty four inches. They moved them to
right tackle yesterday when because Dwan Jones was out, he
(30:58):
had a couple of good reps. There were times we
got run over. So you know that Jalen Duncan is
specifically a left tackle. Pass blocking left tackle. He's a
zone gag, He's a zone scheme type of locker. There
may be some teams that want to move him inside
the guard, but you know, he's done so well at
left tackle. I think it's a situation where you're gonna
(31:19):
put him at left tackle until he fails and proves
that he can't play left tackle in the NFL. I
think he has cemented himself as a day to selection. Agreed.
I think it's been a fun couple of days of practice.
We'll have more again on the game, uh and of
course the Shrine Bowl game as well on our episode
next week on Draft Season. We are right now in
in Tony's airbnb. We're gonna be heading out the practice
(31:40):
shortly for Thursday, and we can cover obviously Thursday practice
in our next week's episode as well. Make sure you
go to Giants dot com. By the way, even if
you're you know you remember this is a draft podcast
on a Giants podcast. But if you want to Giants
dot com, you have my two practice reports up there, Tony.
Where can they can find your practice reports as well?
And everything you've been doing for the Senior Bowl Pro
Football Network. I've got all the risers there, practice reports,
(32:00):
all the news which I know I gotta target on
my back from some of the things that I've been posting,
but lots of fun stuff there, and there's also some
videos up there as well. Tony's got his hoodie. He'll
be incognito or practice today so nobody finds him. It's okay,
he's hiding um, but again make sure he's check out
all the content and uh, make sure you go to
the Giohnt Suttle podcast as well. I did a did
(32:21):
about fifteen two to three minute interviews rapid Fire with
prospects at the Breakfast yesterday. Make sure you go check
that out on the Giants Huddle podcast if you haven't.
And then on tomorrow's John Suttle Wolf one of my favorites,
Dane Brugler joining me to talk about the Senior Bowl
as well. So for Tony Pauline, I'm John Schmalk. Thanks
for being with us. Now this is truly draft season
This is draft season. We're here in Mobile, Alabama, just
before the final day of practice between the American and
National teams. John Schmolke, Tony Pauline with you. We'll give
you a little bit of a shorter episode today and
then we'll recap the games and everything last week, and
we'll talk about some Shrine Bowl practices that Tony was
at in Las Vegas as well. I hope you guys
are doing well out there. It's been fun down here
(00:30):
so far. We had the first day here was about
eighty five degrees in sunny. Were the very palerfolk attending
this all got sunburned, including me. It was not fun.
And then we were back to our normal rainy, cloudy
and general you know, dreariness and the you know sixties
with a little bit of rain. But that's what we
used to in Mobile, so that was good. Tony. It's
good to see you, man. I guess we can start
(00:51):
here with with Shrine right. Um, you were in Vegas
before you got here to Mobile. Um, I haven't had
a chance to watch any of the practice head yet,
so we're gonna rely on you here. What did you
see uh at Shrine that that really jumped out at you. Well,
I think the first thing is the best quarterback in
any of these games was at the Shrine ball, and
that was Aidan O'Connell. I perdue, I mean, because you
know we'll probably talking about the senior quarterbacks. But ad
(01:12):
O'Connell played relatively well. I didn't have the knockout week
that I was expecting or i'd hope, but he was.
He established himself as a leader and he's got a
big time warm I think when you look at it,
there were three cornerbacks who really stood out at try
and game practice, Miles Brook of Louisiana Tech, Terrell Smith
of Minnesota, Cottrell Clark of Louisville. Ritrell Clark was phenomenal.
(01:35):
I mean, one of the receivers who did well last
week was a T Perry of Wake forest Rick Cheral.
Clark was the only cornerback who could stop a T Perry.
He was making plays in man, he was making plays
backed off the line of scrimmage, and he made plays
each day all three days of practice. So I think
Contrell Clark really left the Shrine game with an approved
(01:56):
draft grade. Terrell Smith is somebody who wasn't even on
the scoutch Radar prior to the season. He's a track
and field athlete who was developing into a cornerback, and
as the week went on, he progressed, and I think
he leaves with improved draft grades. Miles Brooke of Louisiana Tech.
I had been writing about him since October. Uh, he
was good all week long. I mean from the from
(02:16):
the first day of practice through the last day. He
was making place. And he showed a lot of leadership too.
I mean he was out there uh really cheering on
his teammates, helping guys. Uh. So that works. So I
think those three cornerbacks really stood out. Some offensive players
as well. Alright, some offensive players as well. I mean
the Mario Douglas, Uh, the small wide receiver from Liberty.
(02:40):
Everybody was talking about Zay Flowers and Zay Flowers from
the receiver from Boston College practice one day. The Mario
Douglas practice three days and nobody could cover him. I
mean he was his He ran quick, precise, sharp routes
where he separated from opponents. He had a burst of speed.
He was basically a poor man's version of Zay Flowers.
(03:01):
And I think the Mariel Douglas is from Liberty, is
a guy who left the Shrine game with really improved
draft grades. You mentioned Flowers only practiced one day, and
the one day of practice, what you see from him,
he was good. And even that one day of practice
he didn't take reps all the time. I mean, he
was sparingly taking reps, but when he was at the
line of scrimmage, nobody could cover him. I mean his
(03:21):
his route running is crisp and sharp, and he separates,
he catches the ball very well. He was out of
practice all three days, but he was only dressed for
practice for one day. Uh. Showed a decent burst of speed.
You know, he knows he's got it going on, There's
no doubt about it. You could see that he's confident
and that he's looking forward to the next level. And
(03:42):
I think part of the uh, the value of being
there is the fact that all thirty two teams on
hand got to interview him. Yeah, no question about it.
Very valuable. Some people have projected him as a first
round pick, which I think in a normal wide receiver year,
a guy at that size. I think he mentioned with
like five something like that, right, Um, I feel like
that's not typical. So just what what what's your thought
(04:04):
of the thoughts on him as an overall prospect and
kind of where he would fit in this class and
also in the normal wide receiver year. Well, I think
a lot will depend on how he runs at the
combine and his testing marks at the combine. I interviewed
him and he told me he expects to run in
the four threes. Now I would agree with you in
the sense that if you go in the past two
(04:25):
receiver dress past three receiver drefts, he's probably a early
to midsecond round choice. But the receiver position is up
for grabs. Now. You know, you've got Quentin Johnston of TCU,
who is a big athletic, you know, athletes at the
receiver position, but he's not polished. And then you have
Jordan Addison and Save Flowers who are very polished at
(04:46):
their craft. So it's a matter of you know's a Flowers.
He's gonna have limitations because of his size and the scheme.
If he's a good fit for your system, you may
consider taking him at the bottom half of round one. Interesting,
and we'll obviously talk more about the wide receivers as
we go along here anyone else from Shrine tell me
that you want to mention before we jump over to
(05:07):
the Senior Bowl. And for any Orgy was a linebacker
from Vandervelt. I mean he looks the part. He looks
the Party's a big stock guy and he played very well.
Uh DeShawn Johnson de Shwan Johnson of Toledo is a
guy that we talked about with Eric Galco when we
did the preview of this game. Some of the offensive
lineman told me that he was the toughest guy to
block all week because he's so quick and he's explosive.
(05:29):
Kazimir Alan, the running back from U C l A a
a smaller guy, but he was sort of like the
receiver version of Za Flowers, if you will, because he's
so quick, He's got such great footwork. He was able
to make defenders misbounce around piles. A lot of teams
don't know what position because Kasimir Allan's gonna play at
the next level, and he played running back most of
the week, but he also took some reps at the
(05:51):
receiver spot because some teams project him as a receiver.
Also a good return specialist, so I think he helped
himself and Obviously, the Shrine Game is being played on
Thursday night. That's a little bit later today, the day
we're recording. You could be listening to this potentially after
the Shrine Game has been played. We will review the
Shrine game itself and the Senior Bowl game itself on
next week episode, but we're gonna talk about the practices
(06:12):
a little bit this week. All right, Tony, let's jump
over to the Senior Bowl here in Mobile, and we
were just talking about the wide receivers and A Flowers,
So I guess we can start there. Who are some
of the guys there that that really jumped out of you? Um,
I know, Nathaniel Del is a guy that you're a
big fan of. I thought Jayden Reid out of Michigan
State had a really nice week to talk about those
guys and anyone else at wide receiver that that you
(06:33):
think really helped themselves. Well, you know, we talked about
Za Flowers and Shrine and his projection. I mean, no
one's been able to cover Tank Creed this week, Nathaniel Dell.
No one's been able to cover I'm all over the place.
No one's been able to cover Nathaniel Tank Del this week.
I mean from day one. Uh, you know, they can't
cover him in or out of routes when he's open,
(06:53):
when he's in space, he's gotta burst to speed. He's
constantly taking it downfield. He's done a great job seen
the ball. He was good on Tuesday, he was better
on Wednesday. I think the only blip in his game
was they had him returned punts and he dropped the
two punts that he was supposed to field. That was
the only bad portion. But you know, as they put
it put it on Twitter yesterday, nobody and I mean
(07:15):
nobody has been able to cover a tank hell here. Yeah,
And just to bring up so fans understand, Nathaniel Tank
dell out of Houston wide receiver just five eight and
a hundred and sixty three pounds. We talked about Zay
Jones's size, well, one sixty three. That's gonna raise a
lot of big red flags or some NFL teams. You
know it will. But the fact is this, you gotta
(07:36):
put him in a system where you're line them up
in the slot, you pack them up off the minor scrimmage,
You get him off a press coverage and if he
gets uh, you know, a running start on defenders. He's
gonna be tough to cover. Now, you know you don't
want to put him in traffic because he's gonna get pounded.
But you know, listen, I mean we're in a day
and age where you know quarterbacks that are six ft
(07:58):
or maybe five eleven and a half for going with
the first pick of the draft, and ten years ago
you never would have thought that's possible. And it's not
so much about the six ft four receiver anymore. It's
about the guy that can get separation through his routes,
which is what Dell does. Yeah, why don't we stick
with the American team since you're on del here? Uh
Dan'tavian Wicks Tony a guy that that made a couple
of while plays and a couple of times I had
(08:18):
had trouble getting open, To be quite honest with you,
um a couple of the guys. I thought Rashi Rice
had had a nice first day. The second day, I
went back and I rewatched the one on ones. The
guys were holding him left right, and he just had
trouble separating. But I don't think it was his fault
because he was just getting grad. They kept pulling his
Jersey Um at that wide receiver spot and then Davier Hutchinson,
and I think what we knew about Davier Hutchinson coming
(08:40):
into this Tony is kind of what we've seen. He's
a crafty wide receiver. He's got good length, he's got
good hands, But that burst and pull away speed, I'm
not sure you see that on a consistent play by
play basis because he doesn't have it. I mean, he's
not gonna go to the combine and run the fourth
three leg. Zave Flowers is saying he's gonna do. But
you know, he knows how to get open, and he
gets he gets consistently catches the ball. You you mentioned
(09:04):
Octavian Wicks of Virginia, and I agree with you. I
mean there were sometimes where you're like, wow, if he
could do that consistently, this guy is a day to pick,
but that would that's his m O. I mean, that's
what it was last year at Virginia. They had quarterback
issues there, but he was never consistently productive. I do
think that we've seen some good things from the hometown guy,
Jalen Wayne here who was made a lot of nice receptions.
(09:27):
You know, more of your Xavier Hutchinson type of intermediate
possession receiver. Not a guy that's going to stretch the field,
but a guy that gets up and competes to come
away with the reception. Yeah, he did make a couple
of plays. I also bring up a local guy, andre
Yeshiva's out of Princeton Um. He showed pull away speed.
The one thing that that kind of stuck with me.
Though I watched some of his get offs at the
line of scrimmage. His acceleration is not great. If I
(09:49):
feel like he's one of these build up guys that
that needs a little bit of a runway to get
to that full speed or he needs to learn to
do it. Because he was a sixty meter champion, indoor
track and field champion, he's actually a heptathlete and athlon
uh guy. I spoke with his dad at length yesterday.
We talked about his athletic history, getting into the cathlon
and then moving to football. I think with Uh with him,
(10:11):
it's just a matter of learning to use that speed.
He's got to get off the line quicker. He's got
to basically come out of the blocks quick as he
would in the sixty meters, and he's got to become
a much better route runner. YEA, let's jump to the
national team, Tony. I didn't think you had quite the
group of wide receivers on the national team as we
did on the American team. Ronnie Bell out of Michigan
had some moments, but I don't think anything that that
(10:33):
really necessarily wows you. Um Elijah Higgins, he's twenty eight.
A lot of NFL teams see him as a move
tight end. We talked about that with Jim Nagy in
our preview of the Senior Bowl last week, and you know,
nobody at wide receiver to me for the national team
really kind of jumped out. Though Jayden Reid was somebody
I wasn't that familiar with from Michigan State. He's five.
(10:53):
I thought, of all the guys on on this roster,
I thought he was separating pretty consistently, could win across
the field, get in that of his brakes well, could
win all at the top. I thought he really did
well for himself out of Michigan State. And I believe
the data showed that he was one of the fastest
and not the fastest receiver on the field, which is
surprising because you would have thought it was tank Dell,
but yeah, I read was he looks like the finished product.
(11:14):
He looks like the polished The receiver ran good routes,
consistently caught the ball, plays with excellent balance and body control.
He tracks the pass in the air, got vertical and
was able to contort and use the sidelines well to
come away with the reception. I think Michael Wilson of
Stanford has also had a lot of good moments here.
Really good route runner, I mean not tanked l but
close to Jaden read and that he gets he separates
(11:36):
from from routes. And you know, everybody likes to talk
about the receiver that runs the four threes. NFL teams
here want to see those guys that can run those
routes and and get separation through the routes because that's
just as important because you're not consistently throwing the ball
thirty forty yards down the field in the NFL as
as uh compared to the number of times you're running
eight yard routes or six yard routes or ten yard routes,
(11:58):
and you need to separate from defenders. And that's what
Jaden Reid and Michael Wilson have been able to do
the past two days. All right, let's jump over here
and now talk a little bit about the cornerbacks. He's
the guys trying to cover these wide receivers, and obviously
these one on ones is not an ideal position for
these cornerbacks to be in. It's very difficult. You have
two a goos usually and it's just very difficult for
these guys to stay with him with all that open
(12:19):
field and no help over the top, which often is
not the case when you're playing corner in the National
Football League or in college for that matter. So I'll
bring a couple of guys from the national team. We'll
start there first. Tony Um. I thought Kyo Blue Kelly
at of Stanford's played well. He had an interception, he
jumped a couple of routes, came up with one pick
uh six out of Stanford. Riley Moss, we talked about
him last week with Jim Nagy six fewo. He showed
(12:42):
his speed. I think he tracked as the fastest cornerback
at least and one of the days at practice, I
thought he had very good coverage, especially on go routes
down the sideline. And from the national team, those are
really the two guys to me that uh that jumped
out as much jumped out a lot because of their
play well. First Kyblue Kayblue Kelly of Stanford. It's kind
(13:02):
of ironic because when I watched him in drills and
the one on ones he was getting torched. It was
during scrimmage where he really stood out. I believe he
had two interceptions, uh in seven on seven and full scrimmage.
And there are a lot of people in the league
that like him. I know that we're talking about corners.
I'm gonna throw some safeties in here. And Sydney Brown
of Illinois was out of sight. I mean, Sydney Brown
(13:23):
showed cornerback type ball skills yesterday. He Sydney Brown. If
you watch him from Illinois, he's a fun guy to
watch because he's a smaller guy at five five ft
ten inches, but he he flies around the field and
he basically sacrifices his body to make the tackle. Yesterday,
we saw outstanding ball skills from Sydney Brown. In one
(13:43):
on ones. He looked like he would not be a
liability if you line him up over the slot receiver
and that's worth that's weight in gold here. I mean
if you can show cover skills like that in one
on ones here and you're a safety because the safeties
are usually getting torched in those one on one drills.
Sydney Brown looked like, you know, he was a natural
at it, so he really helped himself. Yeah, I think
we saw the same. And I'll jump to the American
(14:05):
team now, Tony Christopher Smith at a Georgia. You know,
he's a safety. He's only five ten one eight eight,
so you expect he has really good movement skills and
he did. You know, the first day he was doing
one on ones against tight ends and running backs and
they had no chance against him. And then the Lanta
against wide receivers on Wednesday on day two and I
thought he did a really good job covering them as well. Uh,
Jamie Robinson, the safety out of Florida States, same deal.
(14:25):
He covered some wide receivers um on day two of
practice at five ten one and and those are two
guys where you know, you have that kind of star
position now in the NFL. Now it's kind of come
up from college a little bit where the safety that
that that's also going to kind of play cover corner
for you and step up in the slot. I think
those two guys really fit that Bill well. Yeah, Smith
is one of my Uh, I'm sorry. Uh. Smith is
(14:46):
one of my favorite dbs I foot all along. He's
very underrated. He's a good run defender. He showed good
ball skills the past two years. He showed them here.
I think when it comes to a Christopher Smith of Georgia,
it's gonna come down to his forty time. How fast
he runs? Can he get in the high four fours,
the low five, low four fives? Uh, he needs to
do that. You know, we talked about Otavian Wis and
(15:08):
the inconsistency. If there was a Dontavian Wis at the
defensive back spot, it's Tyreek Stevenson of Miami. Because there
were times he physically he looks very impressive. He's long,
he's athletic, he's lean, he's explosive, and occasionally he makes
some outstanding plays. But as you said, the pett Cup plays,
in practice, his technique is all over the place and
(15:29):
he gets very sloppy. And then there are times when
he should make plays, he gets beat and you wonder,
you know what's going on. Yeah, And although a couple
of guys out too. I thought Julius Brents had a
great first day, and I thought yesterday, I went back
and I rewatched the one on ones. He had a
couple of rough reps on Wednesday, so I want to
see how he bounces back in practice today. But he's
six three, he's got good movement skills. I think teams
(15:50):
are gonna fall in love with his traits a lot.
And then the guy that I wasn't familiar with Tony
before we got here is Darius Rush, the defensive back
out of South Carolina. He had an interception over the
course of the first of days and I thought he's
frankly covered pretty well in those tough one on one
situations as well. Yeah, he has, he's had his mom's
I also like what Chamari Connor of Virginia Tech has
done at times. I mean, Virginia Tech. The program has
(16:12):
been down the past couple of years, but he's had
a few situations, a few plays in both one on
ones and scrimmage where Connor of of Virginia Techmarick Connor
stood out. It's got real good size, six five pounds.
You know, you mentioned Julius brent and that's his game.
I mean, he is a long, athletic, physical corner that's
gonna blow people away at the combine. He looks great
(16:34):
on the hoof. There were times when he's able to
shut down opponents, but as we saw a couple of
times yesterday, even in the Big twelve title game, there
are other times where he's getting torched. So you know,
he's a good athlete who really has to develop into
a full time cornerback. All right, let's kind of move
from the smaller guys out of the bigger guys. We'll
get to the guys up front. Last. Let's talk a
(16:55):
little bit about the running backs here, because I thought
this was a really good running back group. Tony Roshan
Johnson on fortunately he had to leave after the first
day of practice with a hand injury. Six five, He
showed his power as ability to run the football. I
thought he looked really good when he had a chance
Chase Brown five fifteen. I thought he should did a
really nice job showing off his ability. And again it's
it's it's it's really tough with with with running backs here.
(17:16):
But I thought the two guys on the American team
were the ones that that really stood out to me
and you can bring up any of these guys you want.
You know, Kenny McIntosh had a Georgia. He left the
first practice with a cramp, came back second day, look great,
rat running was excellent, had a big run up the middle.
And then for me, the star, I think maybe the
guy that's impressed me the most has been TAJE. Spears.
Like we we know from the film what he can do,
(17:37):
but to see it up close and personal. The quickness,
the burst, the pull away speed throw on top of
that division, he just gets through the line really quick.
I think Taj Spears, you know, has secured himself as
as a at worst early third round, probably second round pick,
and if he's in a timeshare, he's gonna be a
really explosive player on the next level. You look at
his hand size to ten inch hands and he's goods
(18:00):
ever out of the backfield, those ten inch hands may
catching the ball very easy. Listen, Taj Spears has proven
he's here. He's the real deal. It's not that he
was playing in the American Athletic Conference and he was
beating up on lesser competition. Because you mentioned the burst,
the quickness and speed. I also love the vision the patients.
He's not a guy that just takes off a field.
(18:20):
You can see him, you know, when when the ball
is handed off for him, he's waiting for his blocks
to develop. He's finding the whole. As I said, you know,
he's a shorter guy at five five n and a half.
And what happens is sometimes he's getting lost. He gets
lost behind his lineman and he runs with great with
great technique. He runs with good lean as they say,
he runs behind his pads, which when he gets tackled
(18:41):
he falls forward. But yet Taj Spears has definitely proven
that he is the real deal while he's here. There
was one other running back I thought, I c Evan
Hull of Northwestern has had his moments here. Uh you know,
he was huge production at Northwestern. Another smart guy. He's
a little bit bigger, two fourteen pounds, but he sees
(19:03):
the whole and he gets through it with author DEATH
thought he's done well. Yeah, I thought, Eric Gray two
from Oklahoma has had a couple of nice runs too.
And the one guy, Taj Spears reminds me a little
bit of I don't think he has quite as the
power was the running back last year out of Michigan State,
who was kind of also a load of the ground,
similar build. I think they have a couple of things
that might be in common there, those spears. As you mentioned,
a better receiver tight ends Tony, I'll go with Luke
(19:23):
Musgrave out of Oregon State six five to fifty five.
Jim Nagy mentioned last week he thought he'd be a
big riser. This is really the first football he's played.
He's been rehabing a knee injury suffered back in September,
and I do think we see some rusts there in
terms of what he's trying to do. But the size,
the ability to separate, I mean, you see all the
traits you want out of one of these big time
tight ends. Another guy with big hands, ten and a
half inch hands, and you know that that's something that
(19:45):
looked at. He's also got thirty two and a half
inch long arms, which is good for a tight end.
But you know, you mentioned he uh, he hasn't played
a lot of football this year because he was injured.
And there were a couple of people who said, to me, yeah,
he looks good, but he but the fact is he
looks like he's injured. And I think the fact that
you know, you see so many guys pull out at
these games, and here's Luke Luke Musgrave obviously performing under
(20:06):
a hundred percent, but he wants to perform and he's
performing well. I mean, you can see this guy's in athlete.
I've been told he's going to blow up the combine
at the tight end position. And let's go back to
what we talked about. There are some people who believe
that Michael Mayer of Notre Dame won't be the first
tight end taking it could be Luke Musgrave. I think
that Jim Naggy also told us that when we when
we spoke to him, and Musgrave has shown a lot
(20:29):
of ability this week and a lot of toughness. Yeah,
And I talked to Musgrave and he said, look, I've
just been dying to play football. I wanted to go
out there and play. That's why he works for To
get back to your point, Tony shows that he really
loves the game. And the other tight ends. I know
you were watching the tight end o of Miami Mallory
I think as well as some other guys. Yeah, Mallory's
been up and down. I mean he's a try hard guy.
But he's dropped to He's dropped a few passes where
(20:51):
he should have caught him. I think Davis Allen of
Clemson has caught the ball really well. I mean, he's
not a downfield tight end. He's your traditional three down
the blocker, intermediate intermediate pass catcher. I watched Pain Durham
yesterday and he was dominant in uh blocking jewels. I
mean he was. He would stun the opponents of the
(21:12):
linebackers and you could see they had to shake it
off after they got pounded by Durham. And he catches
the ball well. The only thing is is, you know,
he's a guy who's probably gonna run four, eight, five,
So he's a number two, number three tight end the
next level. He's not gonna get down the field thirty
yards on a consistent basis, which is what the teams
want these days, which means he's going to be a
later round pick, but he'll probably have a ten year
(21:34):
career in the NFL. All right, let's go to our
off ball linebackers. Tony de Winters had an interception the
other day. He got matched up a couple of times.
I rewatched the one on ones today. One on one
with ty J. Spears and coverage, and he stuck with
him a couple of times, and I was really impressed
by that little undersize, But I thought he showed really
good movement skills throughout any other linebackers really jumped out
(21:55):
to you. Yeah, Daly and hen Diane Henley of Washington
State is outstanding. He's outstanding in coverage reels. He's staying
downfield thirty yards with running backs and tight ends, showing
good ball skills. Not just running, you know, running down
and face guarding these guys and getting his hands up crazy. No,
he gets his hips around, he gets his head around,
(22:16):
he tracks the pass in the air. I thought he's
done very well. The Marvin Open Shore has shown things
on occasion, Ivan paced flash his ability, but he just
can't finish the play, which is a little bit disappointing.
I really haven't seen too much of Nick Hampton this week.
It really hasn't stood out, which is a bit surprising
because teams like him so much. You know, Will McDonald.
(22:36):
We talked about him with Jim Naggy beforehand. He's played
both linebacker and defensive ent. I think he's looked much
better moving up the field than moving in reverse. By
the way, Tony, I think he's been the best edge
rusher out there. Oh, he's the best athlete here without
of the of those front guys, you know. But the
thing is, you know, Will McDonald's six three and a
half two pounds. How's he going to hold up against
(22:58):
the run? So incredibly athletic long arms thirty five inch
long arms. Uh. But again, he's got to add some
more versatility to his game because you can't just rudge
rush wide angles on Sunday. That's not gonna work. All right,
let's go to the edge rushers. I think McDonald's the
perfect transition there, Tony. You know Isaiah Fosky's that double
(23:19):
back to back double digit sack seasons. I like to
see a guy like that that has a lot of
production and is a senior and has played a lot
of football. I want to see him be dominant in
a practice situation like this. I have not seen that. Um,
that's been a little bit disappointing for me. And then
you know, you have a lot of these kind of
tweener you know, smaller linebacker like Isaiah land is one
of these guys that has done a little bit in
the edge, but even against bigger tackles, you know, he
(23:41):
has not really one on the edge consistently. You know,
I really think for me at least, this has been
a little bit a bit of a disappointing defensive end
edge class. I have not seen guys out there really
dominating at some of these offensive tackles. I think apart
that's because the offensive tackles have actually played well here.
So I think kJ Henry of Clemson, who kind of
it falls under the radar because Clemson has so much
(24:02):
talent there. I think he's done very well. Keyon White,
although he's not a pure edge rusher of Georgia Tech.
Maybe we talking about the defensive ends. I thought he's
done well. Um, but yeah, I I mean even the
kid from Tennessee, Byron Young, he's been spotty out the
Gay of l s U really haven't seen him show up.
Derek Cole of Auburn. I mean they pretty much see
(24:24):
Dylan Hornton of TCU. I felt look good defending the run. Uh.
We know he's a pass rusher. We saw it against
during the season. We saw it against Michigan. A couple
of the question was how's he gonna hold up against
the run. I saw him go against a couple of
really good, really big defensive tackles able to hold his ground,
slow up and make plays against the run. But yeah,
there's not been a lot of pass rush potential here
(24:45):
or pass rush production here that teams would hope to see. Yeah,
Horton had a couple of rushes I thought on day
one that were pretty good. But on day two he
was quiet. Um and you mentioned why, I think I agree.
I think he's been probably one of the better defensive
ends in this group too. How about the guys inside, Well,
I mean, I think the guy who really stood out
for me is someone who plays inside and outside. And
I'm not even gonna try and pronounce his name. That's
(25:06):
the Northwestern kid. He's known as Tommy. Uh, get ahead,
if you want to say his name. I'm gonna give
it a shot here, God bless me, I have not
tried this at all. Added to mew At a beware,
and I'll just call him Tommy because that's what they
call him. Uh. You know, he was rejected to be
two hundred seventy pounds. He came into two four pounds.
(25:28):
He was unstoppable yesterday. I mean, there are a lot
of plays where the crowd would react and you would
look and there he was making another play behind the
line of scrimmage or just UH defense or just annihilating
the opponent. And he has really helped himself here, I
think the other guy that scout are raving about, and
he's constantly blowing past the opponent's uh a snap after
(25:49):
snap in uh in um uh one on ones as
well as scrimmages and Tom Benton of a Canoe Benton
of Wisconsin, I mean, he's been all over the place.
He's explosive, he's athletic. Uh he's annihilated one on one blocking.
He had a bit of a disappointing senior season and
when I asked, you know what the situation was, I
(26:11):
was told, well, the scheme it was constant. Constant asked
him to occupy the gaps rather than make plays. And
here we are at the senior ball he's allowed to
make plays and he's gotten good production. He's getting good results.
He has really helped himself. There are some people say
he could slide into the late first round. I don't
think he's a first round but it's not a great
defensive tackle class. It's a priority position called NFL draft time.
(26:33):
So it's one of those situations where you know he
could slide into the late part of a team. Two
is looking for defensive tackle. Yeah, and you know, I
think another guy, Um Redman they get out of Oklahoma.
He's a smaller defensive tackle. He's shown some good burst
getting up the field from time to time. But look,
I think your point when I asked about the pass
rushers is accurate, I think for the most part, and
(26:54):
I think it's a credit to the group because they're
at a disadvantage in these drills. I think the offensive
linemen have come out on top, and he's one on ones.
I think they've been better than the defensive lineman for
the most part. So let's go there at offensive tackle
Tony and you know, and actually I want to start
at the versatile guys. But I think you know, we've
seen Jim Naggy and these two coaching staffs do a
great job of moving guys around. Right, They've put guys
(27:14):
in different spots to give scouts an idea, Right, Well,
was he a tackler? Is he a guard? And I'll
throw some names out there. You can go whatever direction
you want. Matthew Bergeron out of Syracuse has maybe tackle,
play guard. He's done a really nice job. Cody Mock
out of North Dakota State has moved all over the line,
including center. By the way, I think he's done a
nice job. Steve a. Villa out of TCU, he's played
both sides and guard. He had some snaps at center yesterday.
(27:36):
I thought he did a really nice job. So uh
Osyrius Torrance, he's played right guard and left guard. I
think he's been good. So I think these guys that
have shown to be versatile players that can play maybe
a little bit of tackle, but maybe more both guard
spots and center have really been the star so far
early in these practices. And one guy that you left
out there is a meal Are of Alabama who's a
guard who's taken the majority of his snaps at center,
(28:01):
and he's looked really good at it. Now. I spoke
with his team yesterday and I said he's got to
improve his shotgun snaps because the ball is not coming
back cleanly to the quarterback at a good angle. But
I mean, he's a guy who's played guard all of
his career at Alabama just recently moved to center after
the season, and he's played exceptionally well. We've seen them
McClendon Curtis, who's played both guard spots and he's been
(28:24):
dominant to guard. That kicked him out to tackle. It
didn't work out, but you know, he's played. He's been
fantastic at the offensive guard. I think as m Richards,
the former North Carolina left tackle, has had his moments,
but he's also had his struggles at guard. But yeah,
I mean that's you want to see that versatility to
move around. You're gonna see what guys can and can't do,
(28:46):
and I think we've gotten a lot of it here.
I think John Michael Schmitz has solely played center, but
he's done a terrific job at it. I mean, he
is smart, he is strong, he is intense. You could
see him quarter acting the offensive line and making the calls.
There was one play yesterday when the American team was
running through the two minutes reel where Schmitz got five
(29:09):
yards downfield and just annihilated the UH the linebacker UH
to basically open up the lanes of the wide receiver
could pick up extra yards. It was the thing of
beauty to watch. Yeah, No, question about it, and then
before we say goodbye, Tony, I think some of the
offensive tackles, kind of the straight up guys have done
a good job as well. Uh, the right Kid out
(29:30):
of Tennessee, I think has been pretty good. He's a
guy that kind of jumped out of me. Who were
some of the offensive tackles that do you think have
done a nice job. Well, you gotta start with Dawan Jones,
who was I guess basically one and done. I mean,
he had a phenomenal practice on Tuesday at right tackle.
Phenomenal a sense that six eight seventy pounds thirty six
and a half inch arms, he showed much better footwork
(29:53):
and the ability to slide and the ability to handle
speed rushers than anyone would have ever thought. There's no
doubt about it. And now every one is in love
with the Dwan Jones and you know, understandably solid because
he was that good. And it's not just he was
blowing people off the ball. We know he can blow
people off the ball, but it's the ability to slide
off the edge and get to get his arms into
(30:14):
speed rushes and shut them down. At six eight and
three seventy By the way, which is what he did. So,
you know, and I guess he took his winnings in
any left because I don't think, you know, he wasn't
on the field on Wednesday. I don't think we're gonna
see him on Thursday. He's probably not gonna play in
the game. So I guess he's you know, he was
happy with that. I also think Jalen Duncan has done
(30:35):
a terrific job at left tackle. And this is something
we knew about Jalen Duncan, very athletic, very mobile, terrific footwork,
six five and a half pounds, a little bit slim,
thirty three and a half in charms, you which they
were more towards thirty four inches. They moved them to
right tackle yesterday when because Dwan Jones was out, he
(30:58):
had a couple of good reps. There were times we
got run over. So you know that Jalen Duncan is
specifically a left tackle. Pass blocking left tackle. He's a
zone gag, He's a zone scheme type of locker. There
may be some teams that want to move him inside
the guard, but you know, he's done so well at
left tackle. I think it's a situation where you're gonna
(31:19):
put him at left tackle until he fails and proves
that he can't play left tackle in the NFL. I
think he has cemented himself as a day to selection. Agreed.
I think it's been a fun couple of days of practice.
We'll have more again on the game, uh and of
course the Shrine Bowl game as well on our episode
next week on Draft Season. We are right now in
in Tony's airbnb. We're gonna be heading out the practice
(31:40):
shortly for Thursday, and we can cover obviously Thursday practice
in our next week's episode as well. Make sure you
go to Giants dot com. By the way, even if
you're you know you remember this is a draft podcast
on a Giants podcast. But if you want to Giants
dot com, you have my two practice reports up there, Tony.
Where can they can find your practice reports as well?
And everything you've been doing for the Senior Bowl Pro
Football Network. I've got all the risers there, practice reports,
(32:00):
all the news which I know I gotta target on
my back from some of the things that I've been posting,
but lots of fun stuff there, and there's also some
videos up there as well. Tony's got his hoodie. He'll
be incognito or practice today so nobody finds him. It's okay,
he's hiding um, but again make sure he's check out
all the content and uh, make sure you go to
the Giohnt Suttle podcast as well. I did a did
(32:21):
about fifteen two to three minute interviews rapid Fire with
prospects at the Breakfast yesterday. Make sure you go check
that out on the Giants Huddle podcast if you haven't.
And then on tomorrow's John Suttle Wolf one of my favorites,
Dane Brugler joining me to talk about the Senior Bowl
as well. So for Tony Pauline, I'm John Schmalk. Thanks
for being with us. Now this is truly draft season
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