February 14, 2023 • 29 mins
John Schmeelk and Tony Pauline shift their focus to the defensive players in the 2023 NFL Draft. They go through every position on the defensive side of the ball and pick out their top prospects. 00:00 - Defensive Tackle 06:25 - Defensive End 09:53 - Linebackers 18:23 - Cornerback 24:44 - Safety
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Over all right, we're right in the middle of the
draft season here, folks. The Super Bowls in the books,
and now all the attention turns to the offseason team building.
In the center of that, of course, is the NFL Draft.
He's Tony Pauline. I am John Schmulk. Thank you so
much for being with us today. We're gonna continue with
Tony's top five positioned by position. This week we'll take
(00:27):
a look at the defensive side of the ball. We
did offense last week, So if you want all the
skill position guys, offensive line, quarterbacks, go check it out
last week's episode of Draft Season. You can find it
on all your favorite podcast platforms. Subscribe to Search for
Draft Season, or go to the Giants app or go
to giants dot com slash podcast. But of course, this
is a draft podcast. It's not Giants focus. We talk
(00:48):
all about the prospects no matter what team you're root for.
Us to make sure you tell friends, if they're big
draft fans, to come check out the program. No one's
better at breaking these guys down than my man, Tony
Pauline from Pro Football Network. You can check out all
his work there, of course, and again last week you
did offense, Tony. Let's go to defense here. So we
broke these down to the six different categories. We have
(01:08):
defensive end, defensive tackle, inside off ball linebackers. Then we
have kind of our hybrid outside linebackers, which some guys
might be eds, some guys might be off ball in
a four three. Then we have quarterbacks in safety. So
we have your top fives some unless we have a
top four. We'll go through him out list the guys,
and you break down why you order them way you did.
(01:31):
So let's start your defensive tackle, Tony, because I think
the top defensive player taken will probably be from this group,
unless we're surprised, and maybe it's somebody else, but let's
start there. No surprise. Jalen Carter from Georgia number one.
Brian Berz out of Cleanson, your second guy in the list,
one of your favorites, Mazie Smith out of Michigan at
your third defensive tackle. Keanu Benton, somebody with a really
(01:55):
nice weekend mobile is your number four guy. And then
Jacqueline Roy out of LA's you your fifth guy, a
defensive tackle. So why don't you take us through these
guys force. It's really a two man group. I mean,
you got some talent later on, but it's it's two
man group Jalen Carter Georgia and Brian Breeze of Clemson.
And of those two man groups, Jalen Carter's head and
(02:15):
shoulders above them all because I mean you look at
that Georgia group from a year ago with Jordan Davis Defonte.
Why you know, uh, the first pick of the draft,
all the guys that had that, he might have been
the best guy. Jalen Carter is gonna be uh grated
rated higher than all of them. To your point, I mean,
he is an athletic, explosive, strong guy. Uh kind of
(02:39):
didn't have a great game against Ohio State, but that
was more a blip on the radar screen. He is
a dominant interior player. He right now, he's my number
one rated player in the entire draft. Whether Chicago takes
him what the first pick will have to see. But
he's basically a three down guy. He's also got scheme versatility.
You can put him at defense to tack on the
(03:00):
foreman line. I think he's got the athleticism to be
used as a playmaker in a three man front if
you want to use him there. He's got it going on,
as does Brian Breeze, a who you know, had some
struggles this year with his his little sister who passed
away brain cancer. He also had some injuries, wasn't fully healthy,
(03:22):
but he still had a good year. Not as good
as the year he had in two thousand twenty one
when he was absolutely dominant. But he's also very athletic.
He's also very explosive. He's a tough guy in the
middle of the line. He's a playmaker that is impossible
to move off the point, and he can occupy the gap.
So I think it's those two guys, and then it's
(03:42):
everybody else. Mazzy Smith iever rated higher than most. I
think we had Bruce Melman on one of our first shows,
you go Back to All, because Bruce Melman I think
Smith was his number one freak on a super Freaks list.
He's supposed to run the uh, the the three, um, sorry,
the l drill right, the three calling in under seven seconds. Uh.
(04:05):
Bruce was throwing out all these things about Madgie Smith.
But when you watch him, he's also a terrific player.
I mean he created a lot of the opportunities for
Aiden Hutchinson for David Najabu from Mike Morris this year
with his ability to occupy the blockers in the middle
of the line. He's fundamentally sound, he plays with great pedal,
he's explosive, and even though he had doesn't have great
(04:28):
pass rushing numbers, he shows the ability to get after
the passer. So I like Smith a lot. Cannu. Benton
came into the season highly graded by NFL scouts, didn't
have great production. When I talked to Wisconsin people, they said, well,
that was sort of by design because he was asked
to occupy blockers and occupy the gaps this year rather
(04:49):
than make plays, they let him loose at the Senior
Ball and he had a terrific week at the Senior Ball.
I mean he was making plays left and right. He's
an explosive guy. He's a nasty player too. He plays
through the whistle and you gotta like that. From from
an interior lineman, JaQuel and Roy really stepped it up
this year. He's he's a little bit smaller, but he's
very exclusive. He's very athletic, he's very quick. Maybe a
(05:10):
three technique guy, a traditional in UH interior defensive tackle
in in a foreman line. He's got a lot of upside.
I want to throw one of the name out to
you that's not on the list, Tony, because I think
he's a little bit of a different body type than
a lot of the guys you mentioned, and that I
believe it's Siaki ka At a beller. You know, he's
more of your traditional nose six four three fifty I'm
(05:31):
not sure if he's measured since then. Um, that's the
latest measurements I have on him. If you're looking for
a nose tackle in this draft, is he your guy? Yeah? Absolutely,
I I have a six four three fifty five pounds.
And you know, I asked people, I said, you know,
from his team, why isn't he at the senior ball
he was invited. They said, well, we feel there's enough
tape on him. And the object is to just get
in the ship and get ready for the combine. And
(05:54):
you know, I think what he's gonna want to do
with the combine, He's gonna's gonna want to show some athleticism.
He's gonna prove that he's not just a big guy
in the middle of the line who occupies gaps and
he seems to be a pretty good athlete, So I
think that is that that's the goal for Akka and
he he is that you know, zero technique, knows tackle
guy that he's gonna you know, collect double team blocks
(06:15):
in the middle of the mine, occupy the blockers and
either stuff in the middle against the run or create
opportunities for players on the edge, or do both. All right, now,
let's jump over with a defensive end Tony and I'm
gonna generalize here. Really good athletes, but not a ton
of production yet, So I think a lot of this
is probably projection. Um, I'd love to if you disagree
(06:37):
with me, please go right ahead. You've got four guys
here that you wanted to highlight. Miles Murphy at a
Clemson who's a bigger guy, right almost two seventy but tall,
Tyree Wilson out of Texas Tech, a lot of good
athletic traits on his tape, Kean White at a Georgia
Tech who had a nice senior Bowl. Again, he's a
big guy, almost two eighty, he played inside and out.
And then Lucas Vanesse out of Iowa, who's a software
(07:00):
are Usually those guys don't come out of Iowa. They
usually stay for a couple of years. He came out
um he could play end. He played some three technique
defensive tackle as well over the course of the year.
So take us through this group of defensive end. Murphy
is a great athlete. He's a great pass rusher, but
he's a tall, thin guy and he gets basically erased
against the run. So you're looking at a guy. Is
(07:20):
he coming out of a three point stands? Is he
gonna stand over tackle and rest the passer? Is he
gonna do both? He's gonna be a good pass rusher
early in his NFL career, but he's gotta get bigger,
he's gotta get strong. He's really got to develop. Uh,
you know, a three down game against the run. If
you're gonna use him in out of a three point stands,
it's solely in a four man line. Can't playing in
a three man line. Maybe down the road, he's got
(07:41):
he's got some length, so he should be able to
add some weight to his frame. But that's the situation
with him. Tyree Wilson is an athletic freak. I think
he's gonna be one of those guys that go viral
after the combine with a great forty time, a great
vertical jump, and he occasionally plays to it at Texas Tech.
He doesn't do it all the time, but he occasionally
shows that ability where he's unstoppable. There are also times
(08:02):
where you wonder where he is. I mean, he's just
getting stopped at the point of attack. He's sort of
like Miles Murphy times too, in the sense that he
can overtake. You know, he can dominate a game, he
can take over the play, but there are times where
he just disappears. Keian White. It's nice to see key
On White really start to live up to expectations. Started
his career at Old Dominion, a transfer to Georgia Tech,
(08:26):
was injured in two one. You watch the Georgia Tech film,
you see flashes. You see where key On White can
basically take over games with the athleticism, not just rushing
the passer, but playing off the line on zone blitzes
or chasing the action UH in pursuit. Laterally, he is
that type of athlete. It's just a matter of him
starting to pull to do it every down, on every snap.
(08:48):
UH to live up to those expectations, Like you said,
showed a lot of good things at the Senior Bowl,
and there's he's a guy that's got hope for the future.
He's got a bit of upside. You talked about Lucas
van Ness had a uh, you know, had a real
good year, decided to come out, which is unusual for
the Iowa guys. There was a fifth guy here. I
I still don't know if he's gonna be on my
(09:09):
tackle board or my defensive end board. That is the
kid from Northwestern added the worry. Nicole him Tommy, who
was sensational at the Ceno Ball. I mean, he was
a real good athlete at Northwestern, showed the ability at
defensive end to rush the passer. You watched him for
three days. They primarily used him at the defensive tackle,
(09:29):
and he was unstoppable. I mean we talked earlier the
prior show about how good the offensive lineman worth the
Senior Bowl. He was one of those guys that basically
got the advantage on those offensive linemen almost every time
he put his hand in the dirt. Six one and
a half four pounds. Is the defensive end, is the
defensive tackle, is the three technique tackle. He's a good
(09:50):
football player that that's the bottom line with him absolutely.
All right, let's let's jump to the edge class here, Tony.
This is also outside linebackers, a little bit of both.
So let's let's let's go through these guys. No one's
surprised Will Anderson out of Alabama number one on the list,
though I'm not sure he was quite as dominant this
year as a lot of people would have liked to
see Nolan Smith out of Georgia, which again kind of
(10:11):
more of that quicker, faster, bend the edge type guy,
but he missed a lot of the year due to injury.
Trent and Simpson at a Clemson who's more of your
off ball type, just two d thirty pounds. He can
run b j O Dolry out of LSU as brother
a Z's got drafted by the Giants two years ago
in the second round. Uh, he's more of your pass
rusher type off the edge. And then Isaiah Fosky, someone
we saw at the Senior Bowl from Notre Dame as
(10:32):
your fifth guy in the list. You know, go what
you say without Will Anderson. He didn't live up the expectations,
which is true, but maybe the expectations were too high
from Will Anderson one film, which was incredible, and I
mean they were talking about, you know, Will Anderson being
a Hysen Trophy candidate before the season began. To let
me ask you real quick, if if Will Anderson came
out last year, is he the first pick in the draft? Uh?
(10:56):
Probably because Uh, I don't know, because jackson likes uh
Like Jacksonville general manager likes those longer, thinner, athletic defensive ends.
I don't know that he fit that frame. I'll tell
you this, though, you could make the case that he
would have been the highest graded player, there's no doubt
about it. But he's still had a good year. I mean,
(11:17):
you look at the status he watched the film. You know,
he's still getting pressure up the field. He's still getting
out laterally to the flights to make plays against the run.
He does it standing over tackle, he does it with
his hand in the ground. He's a versatile three down guy.
He's strong for a size too. It's not like he's
getting obliterated at the point of attack by box. I
mean he stays on his feet and he gets up
(11:39):
the field. I think that you know, everyone expected him
to be Superman this year, and he was a lot
of Clark Kent besides me, although he was superman at times.
And that's fine. I mean, you know he's going to be,
if not the highest rated player in this year's draft,
he's gonna be going close to it. Uh. Then there's
no Old Smith, as you said, had that torn pictoral muscle,
(11:59):
tried to play through it, didn't play the first two months,
and he played sparingly because he was injured. They finally
shelved them. As a reported on Pro Football Network, he
is a hundred percent right now and he's expected to
go full more at the combine, which he's gonna blow
up the combine with it as lettuce as a man
oh man, and he's one of those guys. You've got
(12:19):
to go back and look at the two thousand one
film because for all that great talent that Georgia had
on the defense, it was number four who was all
over the place, making fields up the field on the bluitz,
getting out to the sidelines in pursuit, dropping back off
the line in the coverage. I had him great higher
than scouts. I thought that he was a definite number
(12:41):
one choice, the first round pick coming into the season.
Maybe the injury changes that, but you fall. You watch
the two thousands Went one film on Nolan Smith, you
fall in love with that guy, Trenton Simpsons, similar type
of linebacker. You know, your traditional four three week sidelinebacker
can drop off the line and playing coverage, fear up
the field of the blitz, very very athletic instincts. Sometimes
(13:05):
you wonder what he's thinking. He takes a while to
see what finding where the ball is your diagnosed plays,
which is a concern. It's gonna be interesting to see
what teams think about that. But a real good athlete,
Tony real quick on him. I want to follow up
real quick on him. Do you think he could play
Mike in the NFL or do you think he's just
more of a weak side will guy. He'd be he'd
be a Mike if it's the old Dallas Cowboys systems
(13:27):
from the nineties where you have you know, the siki oka,
the big defensive tackles up front to keep the lineman
off him. Yeah, exactly. You gotta have the big defensive
lineman up front occupying the blockers, occupying the gaps so
he can get a free shot to the ball. He
can play Mike in that sort of system. Otherwise, if
(13:48):
you want him on the inside, you I think you
gotta put him in a three four lari probably a
better player than his brother, and the sense that he's
a terrific pass rush, your excellent length, very athletic. Isaiah
Foski has his moments. I mean, there are times where
he's dominant. There's times where he's taken from the action
by a single blocker. But he's got a good amount
of upside. Yeah, Tony, I gotta be honest with you,
and look, Foskey. I think he's gonna be a really
(14:10):
good pro, but I wanted to see him be a
little bit more dominant at the Senior Bowl. And I
think you know, you watch those one on ones and
guys jump out at you just by the way they look.
You don't get that when you watch Foskey. He'll get
the job done, he'll get there. But just the way
he goes about his business, the traits, they don't they
don't jump off the screen or or if you're in person,
(14:31):
you know just kind of you know, you don't go
oh wow, wow, look at that same thing on film.
It's the same exact thing on film. I mean, like
I said, there are sometimes where he gets up the
field that he makes place here other times where he
just gets handled the point of attack and he disappears. Yeah,
all right, let's jump to the second they're here, Tony,
and you know you take a actually know we gotta
do inside linebackers first. I almost missing inside linebackers there,
(14:52):
My bad. Uh. You have five guys on your list here,
and based on what I'm looking at, you wouldn't be
shocked if we don't get an inside linebacker picked in
the first round. You have Jack Campbell, who won all
the awards as your first guy in the list. Then
you have Drew Sanders right next to him out of Arkansas,
who's uh Alabama transport played outside for them now he
was inside with Arkansas this year. He's your trades guy.
(15:15):
Long fast. Noah Sewel, a guy that we talked about
as a first round pick before the year. You have
him as a second round pick. Henry Toatoa out of Alabama,
also in the second round. And then your fifth guy
is somebody that was in Mobile to Senior Bowl, kind
of a speed guy. The Marvi and Over shown out
of Texas. Take us through these five. Well, let's talk
about Jack Campbell for a second number. When he can
(15:35):
play inside, you can play outside. And I see a
lot of people, I see a lot of love being
thrown towards Drew Sanders, who's my second rated inside guy,
and dress Sanders is a good player. But watching the film,
I just don't know why Jack Campbell doesn't get the
love compared to Drew Sanders. I think it's the forty time, right,
I think that's gonna be in right. I think I
(15:55):
think that, uh, that Campbell if he doesn't run fashionist yet,
his he's gonna run as fast. So I mean he's
a low four seven guy at two pounds, and I
mean you watch the film. Sanders is taller, he's as athletic,
he's much better off the line in scripture, He's much
better in coverage. He gets much better depth on his
pass drops than Sanders does. Sanders has basically used up
(16:19):
the field and he is a tough run defending linebacker.
But I think that Jack Campbell is more of your
three down guy. You know, if it's third down in
five or third down six and it's a passing situation,
you're probably gonna take two standers off the field where
you can put Jack Campbell over the tight end that
won't be interesting to see. That's why I have Campbell
(16:40):
rated higher than Sanders right now. Obviously, if what you
said comes to fruition the forty times, you know, I
may have to switch him, although I don't think there's
gonna be a big difference between the two. Noah Sewel,
You're right. Prior to the season, people had Noah Sewel
just to fably graded as the first round pick, including yours.
Truly didn't have great production this year. I talked to
(17:01):
people out in Oregon and they said it was the scheme.
The scheme was he was to set the edge and
take on lockers and let other people make the tackle.
The situation when Noah Sewell was did he want to
go back and potentially become a first round pick in
the two thousand twenty four draft because he didn't have
the production. But there was no guarantee that if he
went back to Oregon his role would be different. He
(17:23):
would have been asked to be a playmaker rather than
occupy the gaps and set the edge like he did
this year. That's why he ampered the draft. An outstanding
football player. His forty time is something to keep an
eye on. He doesn't seem to have that great pursuit speed.
So the forty times the shuttle time three call time
is something I'm gonna be watching forward Noah Sewell Henry
toatoa smaller pursue running chase linebacker needs a free shot
(17:49):
at the ball, really good, good against the run, good
in pursuit, good coverage. But once an opponent gets his
hands on him, game over for TOTOA over sean is
you know your goal, nasty violent Texas linebacker who is
good sometimes sometimes he over pursues the action and takes
himself in. Plays more of a run defender who can
(18:10):
cover the past, very good on the blitz. Uh really
after that, after those five guys, he kind of drops
off the face of the earth. You're looking at basically
Day three guys who are more situational type players. All right,
let's jump to cornerback where there her boy, I'm looking
on your list, Tony. You have five guys listening, and
they all have round first on all these guys, and
(18:33):
we might see more corners go in the first round
than any other position this year. I think maybe edge
rusher Earth could be another spot that that you know
that that's kind of in that mix. But let's go
through it and all these guys again. You have first
round grades on Joey Porter Penn State, Joey Porter Jr.
That's the former linebackers from the Steelers son Uh, Devin
Witherspoon at of Illinois, Cam Smith at of South Carolina,
(18:56):
DJ Turner out of Michigan, and Christian Gonzalez at A Oregon.
So take us through this group and then I'll follow
up with some other names as well. A very deep group.
And I think what's gonna happen is there's gonna be
a lot of debate as to who who is in
the top not only top five, but the top eight
at this position, and it's gonna be ever changing. We'll
(19:16):
get into that. Joey Porter has been good for three
years at Penn State. You could tell as a freshman
that he had it. I mean the bloodlines and everything
else he is. He is a nasty, explosive cornerback. Needs
to polish some of his technique. Needs to do a
better job getting his head back around consistently rather than
the face guarding, good size, good speed. Uh, you know
(19:38):
like his dad plays violent football. Uh, it's got a
great upside. Devon Witherspoon is probably the most polished of
all the cornerbacks. The question what that Devon Witherspoon is
what is his forty time gonna be at the combine?
Coming into the season, Scout stought he was a four
five five guy. He plays a little bit faster than that.
You know, you want to see what it's for time is.
(20:00):
But he's got good size, he's got great ball skills.
He is a tough guy. He works well with his teammates.
You can see he knows what's going on with the safety.
He's never out of position, doesn't have any lapses, which
a lot of uh college cornerbacks. Do you know Tony
one thing on him real quick on Witherspoon watching him,
he does not shut up, Like he is such a
trash talker and he is like if you want that
(20:21):
like type a personality dog d a you know, w
J on your team, that's gonna be like kind of
pump up your defense, kind of like Jalen Ramsey. This
guy's you're dude, Like he's in your face and he
lets you know when he makes a play and he
bats it up though, yeah, he bats it up. He
doesn't have you know again and want to see what
the forty time is because you don't see that great
speed on film. And he was estimated to be a
(20:42):
four or five five guy, but he bats it up
that you know, we talked about We've talked about Sydney
Brown at the Senior Bowl. Uh, you know they got
another guy back there, Jartavious Martin. So that whole Illinois secondary, Uh,
they're all gonna three of them are gonna get drafted.
And it was. It was a terrific bunch. Can Smith
is a guy who really exploded. I like Camp Smith
(21:02):
coming into the season's Camp Smith of South Carolina really
took his game up a notch. Nice size, developing ball skills.
Christian Christian Gonzal I'm sorry. DJ Turner of Michigan has
been one of my favorites for the past three years.
I mean, he's a guy that opposing quarterbacks consistently avoid.
They throw the ball away from him to the other side.
Sometimes it makes it a little bit difficult to scout
(21:24):
him because he's not getting much action. But he's a
feisty guy. He gets his head back around, he tracks
the pass in the air, good ball skills, I think
with DJ Turner is what's his actual size? How paul
is he? Because he doesn't look like a bigger guy. Uh?
Is he a starting corner? Where is he gonna play?
That's what you gotta watch for the combine. Christian Gonzalez
basically blew it up this year at Oregon. He's got
(21:46):
excellent size, he's got real good ball skills. Those are
my top five guys, but really on the edge after
those are his Kelley Ringo of of Georgia, Garrett Williams Syracuse,
Eli Rix of Alabama, and Clarke Phillips of Utah. So
those are guys who I have graded his second round picks.
(22:07):
Who you know, you get them the first fifteen selections
of round two, you potentially could have a starting quarterback.
So it is a incredibly deep class. Totally, I'm gonna
throw two of the guys out of it. And you
didn't mention I know other people are really high and
I want to get to your take. Deonande Banks at
of Maryland six ft over two hundred pounds. Then Emmanuel
Forbes at of Michigan at a Mississippi state part of
(22:29):
me another guy than a lot of other people, really
like your thoughts on those two. Yeah, well, Deonda Banks,
I did mention as a part. I grew up with
DeAnda Banks, Keiley, Ringo, Garrett Williams and Eli Rix. Is
that second sort of group of uh of corners who
can go top of round two. And DeAnda Banks has
got sized, he's got athleticism, he's got solid ball skills.
The instincts sort of concerned me. So it's gonna be
(22:51):
interesting to see what NFL teams say about that. Could
he go late for ust round? Absolutely? I have him
as the first second round and we only did top
five here. He is my six six cornerback on my board.
And Emmanuel Forbes. I want to see Emmanuel Forbes height
and weight because the main criticism I heard about him
(23:11):
is he's a thin guy who can't put on weight,
who's gonna lose out in battles. He's gonna lose out
the bigger receivers. That is a big concern with Emanuel Forbes.
That's why I don't have him as highly ready, and
that comes off on the film sometimes. Yeah, and I
want to And you mentioned Ringo as part of that
next group, right, I know a lot of people probably
surprised that he's not in your top five. He was
(23:31):
a guy that had top ten hype heading into the year, Tony.
But look, you watch him and you see the traits.
You know, he's over six foot, he's over two hundred pounds.
He can run, but I mean, I'm just gonna put
it plainly, he doesn't cover that well. There's a lot
of blown coverages. Guys are running past him. You know,
at what point do teams say, we're gonna draft the
(23:52):
traits here and we think we can coach him up,
because I think that's gonna be key with him. Keely
ringoes great. If you watch the highlights, you know, if
you just watched the highlights, Keith Ringo is your top
ten pick. But when you really get into the film,
you're like, whoa, there's a lot of apses here, and
there's a lot of you know, great athlete, but not
a great football player. And I think what happens is
it will come down to interviews. And you know, as
(24:14):
we talked about on this or we've had guests on
on the show, you know, scouts like to see what
a guy does well. And if they see what he
does well and they see the athleticism. He could go
high because football coaches knew exactly that they coach football.
And then when we see a guy like Keiley Ringo, who's,
you know, six to two pounds, runs in the low
four force high four threes, and shows flashes, they will
(24:37):
say we can take him to the next level. I
wouldn't take him in the first round, but it wouldn't
surprise me if Keiley Ringo ends up in the first round.
All right, let's go to safety here, Tony. You have
Brian Branch from Alabama as your first guy, Chris Smith
out of Georgia, who is also kind of a Slot
Cornery type guy as your second. He did great at Mobile.
Sidney Brown, who we've talked about um from Illinois, twin
(24:59):
brother to Chase on the running back as your third guy,
Jordan Battle, another Alabama safety. Boy. They just turn out
safety is like there's no tomorrow that program. And then
you have Brandon Joseph at of Notre Dame take us
through that group. Bryan Branch is terrific. I mean there
have been Alabama safeties that were highly ready, went early
in the draft and never panned out. Bryan Branch, I
think I'll pan out. I mean he's a true center fielder.
(25:22):
He can go sideline to sideline. He's got excellent wall skills.
When you watch the film, you can play him over
the slot receiver. You can play him over any receiver
and he's gonna do a good job for you. You know,
talked about Sydney Brown earlier and having a safety that's
got cornerback hype, wall skills. That's what Brian Branches. And
the thing about Brian Branch is he really improved. I
(25:43):
liked them off the two thousand twenty one film. I
loved him off the two thousand twenty two film. Really
stepped up his game. Was a leader in that Alabama secondary.
Chris Smith sort of Brian Branch, but not as fast.
Can play corner, can play safety, makes a lot of
plays with his head, very instinctive, tough against the run,
solid ball skills. Gonna have to see what he runs
(26:05):
in the forty what what he what he times in
the forty of the combine. Sydney Brown, we talked about
him a couple of times. I mean, he was a
good college player. You talked about Devin Witherspoon and the
guy who's very chatty, Well, Sydney Brown played that sort
of way, a very aggressive I hate to use the
term head hunter, but he was your guy who was really,
(26:25):
you know, gonna knock the socks off of opponents, even
though he's a little bit smaller. And then, as we
saw at the senior ball, tremendous ball skills. I mean
he took on bigger receivers, took on faster receivers, took
on quicker receivers, did not back down and did a
good job. And I think, like Jlen Petrie did in
two thousand twenty one, Sydney Brown is gonna watch his
(26:47):
or is watching his dress box store because of his
senior ball performance. Jordan's Battle not the fastest guy, but
a smart guy. Jordan Battle Battle from Alabama, constantly making
plays against the run, against the pass. I think he's
got some athletic limitations. I think maybe he's more of
a zone safety. He's your traditional strong safety if you will,
(27:08):
if you use that type of system, but a real
good football player. Brandon Joseph from Notre Dame by way
of Northwestern has shown flashes but has never been consistently productive,
especially when the balls in the air. But he's got
a lot of upside, Brandon Joseph, You've got to you
gotta teach him where. You gotta coach him to consistently
play at a high level of the level he's capable of,
(27:30):
and you'll have a good starting free safety. Let me
ask you about one or two other guys here, Tony,
your thoughts on Antonio Johnson out of Texas A and
M tall six three, just one, but I know a
lot of other people like him. Yeah, I mean it's
got a lot of upside. I think he's got to
develop his game, has some lapses on the field. Good
athlete that I would like to see him. He's got
to improve his ball skills. All right. Then I'll ask
(27:52):
you about Ronnie Hickman out of Ohio State. You know Hickman.
I mean he's good facing the action. He really struggled
at senior during Senior Bowl practices. I mean he looked
like he was stuck in cemented times, which really surprised me.
I talked to some people that said he was injured.
I don't know that I buy that, but I think
if you want a guy, you're gonna face him, He's
(28:13):
gonna face the action, maybe using in his own system
you know, I watched the film. I liked the film.
I was just very disappointed and when I saw at
the senior ball, and I think other people will and
he's gonna be downgraded, all right, Tony, I've already talked
about the corner, so I'm guessing that's at the top
of the board. That's kind of where your group's gonna
have the most depth. You talked about maybe eight guys
(28:34):
potentially with with first round grades, any other spot where
this class is gonna go pretty deep. And if you're
sitting in you know, late day too, early day three,
you're still gonna be able to get a pretty darn
good player. Mike Morris of Michigan, Colby Wooden of Auburn,
who I don't think had a real good year in
two thousand twenty two. Early on he was terrific. Will
(28:56):
McDonald of Iowa State. You know, is he an edge rusher?
Is he spencive man? Is he an outside linebacker? Does
a lot of it makes a lot of plays up
the field, doesn't We've got to learn to make plays
moving in reverse. And then I think that outside linebacker
crop whether it's whether it's you're using them as three
or for edge rushes, whether you're using them out in
space and in pursuit. I think it's a pretty good
(29:16):
crop there as well. Really good stuff, Tony. Uh. Next
week we'll kind of go through your top thirty and
we'll talk about how many first round grades there are.
We'll go through some of the you know stars in
this draft, and maybe we'll take some questions from the
fans and that in that show as well. So if
you get some questions off of Twitter, we can answer
them on next week's program as well. Good stuff. Always
want to talk to you, Tone. Thanks John for Tony Pauline,
(29:37):
I'm John Schmulk. Thanks for joining us for Draft season.
Make sure you go and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Again,
you can watch listen to the show and watch it
on the Giants app or go to giants dot com
slash podcast. For Tony, I'm Schmilk. We'll see you next
time on Draft season.
Over all right, we're right in the middle of the
draft season here, folks. The Super Bowls in the books,
and now all the attention turns to the offseason team building.
In the center of that, of course, is the NFL Draft.
He's Tony Pauline. I am John Schmulk. Thank you so
much for being with us today. We're gonna continue with
Tony's top five positioned by position. This week we'll take
(00:27):
a look at the defensive side of the ball. We
did offense last week, So if you want all the
skill position guys, offensive line, quarterbacks, go check it out
last week's episode of Draft Season. You can find it
on all your favorite podcast platforms. Subscribe to Search for
Draft Season, or go to the Giants app or go
to giants dot com slash podcast. But of course, this
is a draft podcast. It's not Giants focus. We talk
(00:48):
all about the prospects no matter what team you're root for.
Us to make sure you tell friends, if they're big
draft fans, to come check out the program. No one's
better at breaking these guys down than my man, Tony
Pauline from Pro Football Network. You can check out all
his work there, of course, and again last week you
did offense, Tony. Let's go to defense here. So we
broke these down to the six different categories. We have
(01:08):
defensive end, defensive tackle, inside off ball linebackers. Then we
have kind of our hybrid outside linebackers, which some guys
might be eds, some guys might be off ball in
a four three. Then we have quarterbacks in safety. So
we have your top fives some unless we have a
top four. We'll go through him out list the guys,
and you break down why you order them way you did.
(01:31):
So let's start your defensive tackle, Tony, because I think
the top defensive player taken will probably be from this group,
unless we're surprised, and maybe it's somebody else, but let's
start there. No surprise. Jalen Carter from Georgia number one.
Brian Berz out of Cleanson, your second guy in the list,
one of your favorites, Mazie Smith out of Michigan at
your third defensive tackle. Keanu Benton, somebody with a really
(01:55):
nice weekend mobile is your number four guy. And then
Jacqueline Roy out of LA's you your fifth guy, a
defensive tackle. So why don't you take us through these
guys force. It's really a two man group. I mean,
you got some talent later on, but it's it's two
man group Jalen Carter Georgia and Brian Breeze of Clemson.
And of those two man groups, Jalen Carter's head and
(02:15):
shoulders above them all because I mean you look at
that Georgia group from a year ago with Jordan Davis Defonte.
Why you know, uh, the first pick of the draft,
all the guys that had that, he might have been
the best guy. Jalen Carter is gonna be uh grated
rated higher than all of them. To your point, I mean,
he is an athletic, explosive, strong guy. Uh kind of
(02:39):
didn't have a great game against Ohio State, but that
was more a blip on the radar screen. He is
a dominant interior player. He right now, he's my number
one rated player in the entire draft. Whether Chicago takes
him what the first pick will have to see. But
he's basically a three down guy. He's also got scheme versatility.
You can put him at defense to tack on the
(03:00):
foreman line. I think he's got the athleticism to be
used as a playmaker in a three man front if
you want to use him there. He's got it going on,
as does Brian Breeze, a who you know, had some
struggles this year with his his little sister who passed
away brain cancer. He also had some injuries, wasn't fully healthy,
(03:22):
but he still had a good year. Not as good
as the year he had in two thousand twenty one
when he was absolutely dominant. But he's also very athletic.
He's also very explosive. He's a tough guy in the
middle of the line. He's a playmaker that is impossible
to move off the point, and he can occupy the gap.
So I think it's those two guys, and then it's
(03:42):
everybody else. Mazzy Smith iever rated higher than most. I
think we had Bruce Melman on one of our first shows,
you go Back to All, because Bruce Melman I think
Smith was his number one freak on a super Freaks list.
He's supposed to run the uh, the the three, um, sorry,
the l drill right, the three calling in under seven seconds. Uh.
(04:05):
Bruce was throwing out all these things about Madgie Smith.
But when you watch him, he's also a terrific player.
I mean he created a lot of the opportunities for
Aiden Hutchinson for David Najabu from Mike Morris this year
with his ability to occupy the blockers in the middle
of the line. He's fundamentally sound, he plays with great pedal,
he's explosive, and even though he had doesn't have great
(04:28):
pass rushing numbers, he shows the ability to get after
the passer. So I like Smith a lot. Cannu. Benton
came into the season highly graded by NFL scouts, didn't
have great production. When I talked to Wisconsin people, they said, well,
that was sort of by design because he was asked
to occupy blockers and occupy the gaps this year rather
(04:49):
than make plays, they let him loose at the Senior
Ball and he had a terrific week at the Senior Ball.
I mean he was making plays left and right. He's
an explosive guy. He's a nasty player too. He plays
through the whistle and you gotta like that. From from
an interior lineman, JaQuel and Roy really stepped it up
this year. He's he's a little bit smaller, but he's
very exclusive. He's very athletic, he's very quick. Maybe a
(05:10):
three technique guy, a traditional in UH interior defensive tackle
in in a foreman line. He's got a lot of upside.
I want to throw one of the name out to
you that's not on the list, Tony, because I think
he's a little bit of a different body type than
a lot of the guys you mentioned, and that I
believe it's Siaki ka At a beller. You know, he's
more of your traditional nose six four three fifty I'm
(05:31):
not sure if he's measured since then. Um, that's the
latest measurements I have on him. If you're looking for
a nose tackle in this draft, is he your guy? Yeah? Absolutely,
I I have a six four three fifty five pounds.
And you know, I asked people, I said, you know,
from his team, why isn't he at the senior ball
he was invited. They said, well, we feel there's enough
tape on him. And the object is to just get
in the ship and get ready for the combine. And
(05:54):
you know, I think what he's gonna want to do
with the combine, He's gonna's gonna want to show some athleticism.
He's gonna prove that he's not just a big guy
in the middle of the line who occupies gaps and
he seems to be a pretty good athlete, So I
think that is that that's the goal for Akka and
he he is that you know, zero technique, knows tackle
guy that he's gonna you know, collect double team blocks
(06:15):
in the middle of the mine, occupy the blockers and
either stuff in the middle against the run or create
opportunities for players on the edge, or do both. All right, now,
let's jump over with a defensive end Tony and I'm
gonna generalize here. Really good athletes, but not a ton
of production yet, So I think a lot of this
is probably projection. Um, I'd love to if you disagree
(06:37):
with me, please go right ahead. You've got four guys
here that you wanted to highlight. Miles Murphy at a
Clemson who's a bigger guy, right almost two seventy but tall,
Tyree Wilson out of Texas Tech, a lot of good
athletic traits on his tape, Kean White at a Georgia
Tech who had a nice senior Bowl. Again, he's a
big guy, almost two eighty, he played inside and out.
And then Lucas Vanesse out of Iowa, who's a software
(07:00):
are Usually those guys don't come out of Iowa. They
usually stay for a couple of years. He came out
um he could play end. He played some three technique
defensive tackle as well over the course of the year.
So take us through this group of defensive end. Murphy
is a great athlete. He's a great pass rusher, but
he's a tall, thin guy and he gets basically erased
against the run. So you're looking at a guy. Is
(07:20):
he coming out of a three point stands? Is he
gonna stand over tackle and rest the passer? Is he
gonna do both? He's gonna be a good pass rusher
early in his NFL career, but he's gotta get bigger,
he's gotta get strong. He's really got to develop. Uh,
you know, a three down game against the run. If
you're gonna use him in out of a three point stands,
it's solely in a four man line. Can't playing in
a three man line. Maybe down the road, he's got
(07:41):
he's got some length, so he should be able to
add some weight to his frame. But that's the situation
with him. Tyree Wilson is an athletic freak. I think
he's gonna be one of those guys that go viral
after the combine with a great forty time, a great
vertical jump, and he occasionally plays to it at Texas Tech.
He doesn't do it all the time, but he occasionally
shows that ability where he's unstoppable. There are also times
(08:02):
where you wonder where he is. I mean, he's just
getting stopped at the point of attack. He's sort of
like Miles Murphy times too, in the sense that he
can overtake. You know, he can dominate a game, he
can take over the play, but there are times where
he just disappears. Keian White. It's nice to see key
On White really start to live up to expectations. Started
his career at Old Dominion, a transfer to Georgia Tech,
(08:26):
was injured in two one. You watch the Georgia Tech film,
you see flashes. You see where key On White can
basically take over games with the athleticism, not just rushing
the passer, but playing off the line on zone blitzes
or chasing the action UH in pursuit. Laterally, he is
that type of athlete. It's just a matter of him
starting to pull to do it every down, on every snap.
(08:48):
UH to live up to those expectations, Like you said,
showed a lot of good things at the Senior Bowl,
and there's he's a guy that's got hope for the future.
He's got a bit of upside. You talked about Lucas
van Ness had a uh, you know, had a real
good year, decided to come out, which is unusual for
the Iowa guys. There was a fifth guy here. I
I still don't know if he's gonna be on my
(09:09):
tackle board or my defensive end board. That is the
kid from Northwestern added the worry. Nicole him Tommy, who
was sensational at the Ceno Ball. I mean, he was
a real good athlete at Northwestern, showed the ability at
defensive end to rush the passer. You watched him for
three days. They primarily used him at the defensive tackle,
(09:29):
and he was unstoppable. I mean we talked earlier the
prior show about how good the offensive lineman worth the
Senior Bowl. He was one of those guys that basically
got the advantage on those offensive linemen almost every time
he put his hand in the dirt. Six one and
a half four pounds. Is the defensive end, is the
defensive tackle, is the three technique tackle. He's a good
(09:50):
football player that that's the bottom line with him absolutely.
All right, let's let's jump to the edge class here, Tony.
This is also outside linebackers, a little bit of both.
So let's let's let's go through these guys. No one's
surprised Will Anderson out of Alabama number one on the list,
though I'm not sure he was quite as dominant this
year as a lot of people would have liked to
see Nolan Smith out of Georgia, which again kind of
(10:11):
more of that quicker, faster, bend the edge type guy,
but he missed a lot of the year due to injury.
Trent and Simpson at a Clemson who's more of your
off ball type, just two d thirty pounds. He can
run b j O Dolry out of LSU as brother
a Z's got drafted by the Giants two years ago
in the second round. Uh, he's more of your pass
rusher type off the edge. And then Isaiah Fosky, someone
we saw at the Senior Bowl from Notre Dame as
(10:32):
your fifth guy in the list. You know, go what
you say without Will Anderson. He didn't live up the expectations,
which is true, but maybe the expectations were too high
from Will Anderson one film, which was incredible, and I
mean they were talking about, you know, Will Anderson being
a Hysen Trophy candidate before the season began. To let
me ask you real quick, if if Will Anderson came
out last year, is he the first pick in the draft? Uh?
(10:56):
Probably because Uh, I don't know, because jackson likes uh
Like Jacksonville general manager likes those longer, thinner, athletic defensive ends.
I don't know that he fit that frame. I'll tell
you this, though, you could make the case that he
would have been the highest graded player, there's no doubt
about it. But he's still had a good year. I mean,
(11:17):
you look at the status he watched the film. You know,
he's still getting pressure up the field. He's still getting
out laterally to the flights to make plays against the run.
He does it standing over tackle, he does it with
his hand in the ground. He's a versatile three down guy.
He's strong for a size too. It's not like he's
getting obliterated at the point of attack by box. I
mean he stays on his feet and he gets up
(11:39):
the field. I think that you know, everyone expected him
to be Superman this year, and he was a lot
of Clark Kent besides me, although he was superman at times.
And that's fine. I mean, you know he's going to be,
if not the highest rated player in this year's draft,
he's gonna be going close to it. Uh. Then there's
no Old Smith, as you said, had that torn pictoral muscle,
(11:59):
tried to play through it, didn't play the first two months,
and he played sparingly because he was injured. They finally
shelved them. As a reported on Pro Football Network, he
is a hundred percent right now and he's expected to
go full more at the combine, which he's gonna blow
up the combine with it as lettuce as a man
oh man, and he's one of those guys. You've got
(12:19):
to go back and look at the two thousand one
film because for all that great talent that Georgia had
on the defense, it was number four who was all
over the place, making fields up the field on the bluitz,
getting out to the sidelines in pursuit, dropping back off
the line in the coverage. I had him great higher
than scouts. I thought that he was a definite number
(12:41):
one choice, the first round pick coming into the season.
Maybe the injury changes that, but you fall. You watch
the two thousands Went one film on Nolan Smith, you
fall in love with that guy, Trenton Simpsons, similar type
of linebacker. You know, your traditional four three week sidelinebacker
can drop off the line and playing coverage, fear up
the field of the blitz, very very athletic instincts. Sometimes
(13:05):
you wonder what he's thinking. He takes a while to
see what finding where the ball is your diagnosed plays,
which is a concern. It's gonna be interesting to see
what teams think about that. But a real good athlete,
Tony real quick on him. I want to follow up
real quick on him. Do you think he could play
Mike in the NFL or do you think he's just
more of a weak side will guy. He'd be he'd
be a Mike if it's the old Dallas Cowboys systems
(13:27):
from the nineties where you have you know, the siki oka,
the big defensive tackles up front to keep the lineman
off him. Yeah, exactly. You gotta have the big defensive
lineman up front occupying the blockers, occupying the gaps so
he can get a free shot to the ball. He
can play Mike in that sort of system. Otherwise, if
(13:48):
you want him on the inside, you I think you
gotta put him in a three four lari probably a
better player than his brother, and the sense that he's
a terrific pass rush, your excellent length, very athletic. Isaiah
Foski has his moments. I mean, there are times where
he's dominant. There's times where he's taken from the action
by a single blocker. But he's got a good amount
of upside. Yeah, Tony, I gotta be honest with you,
and look, Foskey. I think he's gonna be a really
(14:10):
good pro, but I wanted to see him be a
little bit more dominant at the Senior Bowl. And I
think you know, you watch those one on ones and
guys jump out at you just by the way they look.
You don't get that when you watch Foskey. He'll get
the job done, he'll get there. But just the way
he goes about his business, the traits, they don't they
don't jump off the screen or or if you're in person,
(14:31):
you know just kind of you know, you don't go
oh wow, wow, look at that same thing on film.
It's the same exact thing on film. I mean, like
I said, there are sometimes where he gets up the
field that he makes place here other times where he
just gets handled the point of attack and he disappears. Yeah,
all right, let's jump to the second they're here, Tony,
and you know you take a actually know we gotta
do inside linebackers first. I almost missing inside linebackers there,
(14:52):
My bad. Uh. You have five guys on your list here,
and based on what I'm looking at, you wouldn't be
shocked if we don't get an inside linebacker picked in
the first round. You have Jack Campbell, who won all
the awards as your first guy in the list. Then
you have Drew Sanders right next to him out of Arkansas,
who's uh Alabama transport played outside for them now he
was inside with Arkansas this year. He's your trades guy.
(15:15):
Long fast. Noah Sewel, a guy that we talked about
as a first round pick before the year. You have
him as a second round pick. Henry Toatoa out of Alabama,
also in the second round. And then your fifth guy
is somebody that was in Mobile to Senior Bowl, kind
of a speed guy. The Marvi and Over shown out
of Texas. Take us through these five. Well, let's talk
about Jack Campbell for a second number. When he can
(15:35):
play inside, you can play outside. And I see a
lot of people, I see a lot of love being
thrown towards Drew Sanders, who's my second rated inside guy,
and dress Sanders is a good player. But watching the film,
I just don't know why Jack Campbell doesn't get the
love compared to Drew Sanders. I think it's the forty time, right,
I think that's gonna be in right. I think I
(15:55):
think that, uh, that Campbell if he doesn't run fashionist yet,
his he's gonna run as fast. So I mean he's
a low four seven guy at two pounds, and I
mean you watch the film. Sanders is taller, he's as athletic,
he's much better off the line in scripture, He's much
better in coverage. He gets much better depth on his
pass drops than Sanders does. Sanders has basically used up
(16:19):
the field and he is a tough run defending linebacker.
But I think that Jack Campbell is more of your
three down guy. You know, if it's third down in
five or third down six and it's a passing situation,
you're probably gonna take two standers off the field where
you can put Jack Campbell over the tight end that
won't be interesting to see. That's why I have Campbell
(16:40):
rated higher than Sanders right now. Obviously, if what you
said comes to fruition the forty times, you know, I
may have to switch him, although I don't think there's
gonna be a big difference between the two. Noah Sewel,
You're right. Prior to the season, people had Noah Sewel
just to fably graded as the first round pick, including yours.
Truly didn't have great production this year. I talked to
(17:01):
people out in Oregon and they said it was the scheme.
The scheme was he was to set the edge and
take on lockers and let other people make the tackle.
The situation when Noah Sewell was did he want to
go back and potentially become a first round pick in
the two thousand twenty four draft because he didn't have
the production. But there was no guarantee that if he
went back to Oregon his role would be different. He
(17:23):
would have been asked to be a playmaker rather than
occupy the gaps and set the edge like he did
this year. That's why he ampered the draft. An outstanding
football player. His forty time is something to keep an
eye on. He doesn't seem to have that great pursuit speed.
So the forty times the shuttle time three call time
is something I'm gonna be watching forward Noah Sewell Henry
toatoa smaller pursue running chase linebacker needs a free shot
(17:49):
at the ball, really good, good against the run, good
in pursuit, good coverage. But once an opponent gets his
hands on him, game over for TOTOA over sean is
you know your goal, nasty violent Texas linebacker who is
good sometimes sometimes he over pursues the action and takes
himself in. Plays more of a run defender who can
(18:10):
cover the past, very good on the blitz. Uh really
after that, after those five guys, he kind of drops
off the face of the earth. You're looking at basically
Day three guys who are more situational type players. All right,
let's jump to cornerback where there her boy, I'm looking
on your list, Tony. You have five guys listening, and
they all have round first on all these guys, and
(18:33):
we might see more corners go in the first round
than any other position this year. I think maybe edge
rusher Earth could be another spot that that you know
that that's kind of in that mix. But let's go
through it and all these guys again. You have first
round grades on Joey Porter Penn State, Joey Porter Jr.
That's the former linebackers from the Steelers son Uh, Devin
Witherspoon at of Illinois, Cam Smith at of South Carolina,
(18:56):
DJ Turner out of Michigan, and Christian Gonzalez at A Oregon.
So take us through this group and then I'll follow
up with some other names as well. A very deep group.
And I think what's gonna happen is there's gonna be
a lot of debate as to who who is in
the top not only top five, but the top eight
at this position, and it's gonna be ever changing. We'll
(19:16):
get into that. Joey Porter has been good for three
years at Penn State. You could tell as a freshman
that he had it. I mean the bloodlines and everything
else he is. He is a nasty, explosive cornerback. Needs
to polish some of his technique. Needs to do a
better job getting his head back around consistently rather than
the face guarding, good size, good speed. Uh, you know
(19:38):
like his dad plays violent football. Uh, it's got a
great upside. Devon Witherspoon is probably the most polished of
all the cornerbacks. The question what that Devon Witherspoon is
what is his forty time gonna be at the combine?
Coming into the season, Scout stought he was a four
five five guy. He plays a little bit faster than that.
You know, you want to see what it's for time is.
(20:00):
But he's got good size, he's got great ball skills.
He is a tough guy. He works well with his teammates.
You can see he knows what's going on with the safety.
He's never out of position, doesn't have any lapses, which
a lot of uh college cornerbacks. Do you know Tony
one thing on him real quick on Witherspoon watching him,
he does not shut up, Like he is such a
trash talker and he is like if you want that
(20:21):
like type a personality dog d a you know, w
J on your team, that's gonna be like kind of
pump up your defense, kind of like Jalen Ramsey. This
guy's you're dude, Like he's in your face and he
lets you know when he makes a play and he
bats it up though, yeah, he bats it up. He
doesn't have you know again and want to see what
the forty time is because you don't see that great
speed on film. And he was estimated to be a
(20:42):
four or five five guy, but he bats it up
that you know, we talked about We've talked about Sydney
Brown at the Senior Bowl. Uh, you know they got
another guy back there, Jartavious Martin. So that whole Illinois secondary, Uh,
they're all gonna three of them are gonna get drafted.
And it was. It was a terrific bunch. Can Smith
is a guy who really exploded. I like Camp Smith
(21:02):
coming into the season's Camp Smith of South Carolina really
took his game up a notch. Nice size, developing ball skills.
Christian Christian Gonzal I'm sorry. DJ Turner of Michigan has
been one of my favorites for the past three years.
I mean, he's a guy that opposing quarterbacks consistently avoid.
They throw the ball away from him to the other side.
Sometimes it makes it a little bit difficult to scout
(21:24):
him because he's not getting much action. But he's a
feisty guy. He gets his head back around, he tracks
the pass in the air, good ball skills, I think
with DJ Turner is what's his actual size? How paul
is he? Because he doesn't look like a bigger guy. Uh?
Is he a starting corner? Where is he gonna play?
That's what you gotta watch for the combine. Christian Gonzalez
basically blew it up this year at Oregon. He's got
(21:46):
excellent size, he's got real good ball skills. Those are
my top five guys, but really on the edge after
those are his Kelley Ringo of of Georgia, Garrett Williams Syracuse,
Eli Rix of Alabama, and Clarke Phillips of Utah. So
those are guys who I have graded his second round picks.
(22:07):
Who you know, you get them the first fifteen selections
of round two, you potentially could have a starting quarterback.
So it is a incredibly deep class. Totally, I'm gonna
throw two of the guys out of it. And you
didn't mention I know other people are really high and
I want to get to your take. Deonande Banks at
of Maryland six ft over two hundred pounds. Then Emmanuel
Forbes at of Michigan at a Mississippi state part of
(22:29):
me another guy than a lot of other people, really
like your thoughts on those two. Yeah, well, Deonda Banks,
I did mention as a part. I grew up with
DeAnda Banks, Keiley, Ringo, Garrett Williams and Eli Rix. Is
that second sort of group of uh of corners who
can go top of round two. And DeAnda Banks has
got sized, he's got athleticism, he's got solid ball skills.
The instincts sort of concerned me. So it's gonna be
(22:51):
interesting to see what NFL teams say about that. Could
he go late for ust round? Absolutely? I have him
as the first second round and we only did top
five here. He is my six six cornerback on my board.
And Emmanuel Forbes. I want to see Emmanuel Forbes height
and weight because the main criticism I heard about him
(23:11):
is he's a thin guy who can't put on weight,
who's gonna lose out in battles. He's gonna lose out
the bigger receivers. That is a big concern with Emanuel Forbes.
That's why I don't have him as highly ready, and
that comes off on the film sometimes. Yeah, and I
want to And you mentioned Ringo as part of that
next group, right, I know a lot of people probably
surprised that he's not in your top five. He was
(23:31):
a guy that had top ten hype heading into the year, Tony.
But look, you watch him and you see the traits.
You know, he's over six foot, he's over two hundred pounds.
He can run, but I mean, I'm just gonna put
it plainly, he doesn't cover that well. There's a lot
of blown coverages. Guys are running past him. You know,
at what point do teams say, we're gonna draft the
(23:52):
traits here and we think we can coach him up,
because I think that's gonna be key with him. Keely
ringoes great. If you watch the highlights, you know, if
you just watched the highlights, Keith Ringo is your top
ten pick. But when you really get into the film,
you're like, whoa, there's a lot of apses here, and
there's a lot of you know, great athlete, but not
a great football player. And I think what happens is
it will come down to interviews. And you know, as
(24:14):
we talked about on this or we've had guests on
on the show, you know, scouts like to see what
a guy does well. And if they see what he
does well and they see the athleticism. He could go
high because football coaches knew exactly that they coach football.
And then when we see a guy like Keiley Ringo, who's,
you know, six to two pounds, runs in the low
four force high four threes, and shows flashes, they will
(24:37):
say we can take him to the next level. I
wouldn't take him in the first round, but it wouldn't
surprise me if Keiley Ringo ends up in the first round.
All right, let's go to safety here, Tony. You have
Brian Branch from Alabama as your first guy, Chris Smith
out of Georgia, who is also kind of a Slot
Cornery type guy as your second. He did great at Mobile.
Sidney Brown, who we've talked about um from Illinois, twin
(24:59):
brother to Chase on the running back as your third guy,
Jordan Battle, another Alabama safety. Boy. They just turn out
safety is like there's no tomorrow that program. And then
you have Brandon Joseph at of Notre Dame take us
through that group. Bryan Branch is terrific. I mean there
have been Alabama safeties that were highly ready, went early
in the draft and never panned out. Bryan Branch, I
think I'll pan out. I mean he's a true center fielder.
(25:22):
He can go sideline to sideline. He's got excellent wall skills.
When you watch the film, you can play him over
the slot receiver. You can play him over any receiver
and he's gonna do a good job for you. You know,
talked about Sydney Brown earlier and having a safety that's
got cornerback hype, wall skills. That's what Brian Branches. And
the thing about Brian Branch is he really improved. I
(25:43):
liked them off the two thousand twenty one film. I
loved him off the two thousand twenty two film. Really
stepped up his game. Was a leader in that Alabama secondary.
Chris Smith sort of Brian Branch, but not as fast.
Can play corner, can play safety, makes a lot of
plays with his head, very instinctive, tough against the run,
solid ball skills. Gonna have to see what he runs
(26:05):
in the forty what what he what he times in
the forty of the combine. Sydney Brown, we talked about
him a couple of times. I mean, he was a
good college player. You talked about Devin Witherspoon and the
guy who's very chatty, Well, Sydney Brown played that sort
of way, a very aggressive I hate to use the
term head hunter, but he was your guy who was really,
(26:25):
you know, gonna knock the socks off of opponents, even
though he's a little bit smaller. And then, as we
saw at the senior ball, tremendous ball skills. I mean
he took on bigger receivers, took on faster receivers, took
on quicker receivers, did not back down and did a
good job. And I think, like Jlen Petrie did in
two thousand twenty one, Sydney Brown is gonna watch his
(26:47):
or is watching his dress box store because of his
senior ball performance. Jordan's Battle not the fastest guy, but
a smart guy. Jordan Battle Battle from Alabama, constantly making
plays against the run, against the pass. I think he's
got some athletic limitations. I think maybe he's more of
a zone safety. He's your traditional strong safety if you will,
(27:08):
if you use that type of system, but a real
good football player. Brandon Joseph from Notre Dame by way
of Northwestern has shown flashes but has never been consistently productive,
especially when the balls in the air. But he's got
a lot of upside, Brandon Joseph, You've got to you
gotta teach him where. You gotta coach him to consistently
play at a high level of the level he's capable of,
(27:30):
and you'll have a good starting free safety. Let me
ask you about one or two other guys here, Tony,
your thoughts on Antonio Johnson out of Texas A and
M tall six three, just one, but I know a
lot of other people like him. Yeah, I mean it's
got a lot of upside. I think he's got to
develop his game, has some lapses on the field. Good
athlete that I would like to see him. He's got
to improve his ball skills. All right. Then I'll ask
(27:52):
you about Ronnie Hickman out of Ohio State. You know Hickman.
I mean he's good facing the action. He really struggled
at senior during Senior Bowl practices. I mean he looked
like he was stuck in cemented times, which really surprised me.
I talked to some people that said he was injured.
I don't know that I buy that, but I think
if you want a guy, you're gonna face him, He's
(28:13):
gonna face the action, maybe using in his own system
you know, I watched the film. I liked the film.
I was just very disappointed and when I saw at
the senior ball, and I think other people will and
he's gonna be downgraded, all right, Tony, I've already talked
about the corner, so I'm guessing that's at the top
of the board. That's kind of where your group's gonna
have the most depth. You talked about maybe eight guys
(28:34):
potentially with with first round grades, any other spot where
this class is gonna go pretty deep. And if you're
sitting in you know, late day too, early day three,
you're still gonna be able to get a pretty darn
good player. Mike Morris of Michigan, Colby Wooden of Auburn,
who I don't think had a real good year in
two thousand twenty two. Early on he was terrific. Will
(28:56):
McDonald of Iowa State. You know, is he an edge rusher?
Is he spencive man? Is he an outside linebacker? Does
a lot of it makes a lot of plays up
the field, doesn't We've got to learn to make plays
moving in reverse. And then I think that outside linebacker
crop whether it's whether it's you're using them as three
or for edge rushes, whether you're using them out in
space and in pursuit. I think it's a pretty good
(29:16):
crop there as well. Really good stuff, Tony. Uh. Next
week we'll kind of go through your top thirty and
we'll talk about how many first round grades there are.
We'll go through some of the you know stars in
this draft, and maybe we'll take some questions from the
fans and that in that show as well. So if
you get some questions off of Twitter, we can answer
them on next week's program as well. Good stuff. Always
want to talk to you, Tone. Thanks John for Tony Pauline,
(29:37):
I'm John Schmulk. Thanks for joining us for Draft season.
Make sure you go and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Again,
you can watch listen to the show and watch it
on the Giants app or go to giants dot com
slash podcast. For Tony, I'm Schmilk. We'll see you next
time on Draft season.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.