Living Before Dying: Cancer, Coaching & Curiosity with Sarah Knopp

Episode Transcript
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Siobhan (00:07):
Hey y'all, welcome to this week's episode of Ducking
reality in the pond. With metoday is a new friend, Sarah
knap, welcome Sarah. Hi, hi.
It's good to be here. I'm soexcited to talk to you. We just
started to almost get into it.
And I was like, time out. Let'sgo to the mics, because I was
interviewed or introduced to youvia a mutual friend. And I was

(00:28):
forget how we got onto thetopic, but he ended up telling
me about your story, about thathe had a friend that had cancer,
and then turned it into a wholekind of business, but of
inspiration. And then he wastelling me about your traveling,
and I was like, Okay, I need toknow more. And so luckily, I got
right in contact with you, andhere we are.

Unknown (00:47):
No, it's great. And John is really wonderful.

Siobhan (00:50):
He Oh, you're okay. You can just Okay, relax. Yeah.

Unknown (00:54):
He's great. I met his wife in a cancer support group.
So let's take it back to thebeginning. In 2014 I was
traveling in Europe studying tobe a master sommelier. Oh,
awesome. And I noticed a lump inmy breast. I'm like, I get them
all the time. It's probably justshellfish allergy. I'm not
worried about it. It was a greatsummer. Like one day would be in

(01:16):
Budapest, and the next day I'dbe in Bordeaux, and then I'd be
in Italy in Spain, my language.
It was so much fun, but thislump was slowly getting bigger,
not going away. I'm like, Oh,it's a little nerve wracking.
Yeah, it's in my right breast,and then it got into my
auxiliary lymph nodes, so up inthe armpit. So I'm like, oh,
that's that's a little bad, butI'm not really worried about it,

(01:39):
because I used to get cysts allthe time. So I'm still going all
over, meeting friends from allover the world, having great
food, great wines. I get mydream job launching a French
product line in America. Wow. SoI'm like, All right, it's time
to go back. And at this timetoo, I was really, really

(02:02):
fatigued. Like, I end up inParis at a friend's house, and I
would be sleeping like, 12hours. Oh, wow. And he's like,
it's so great that you're socomfortable, you can just be
knocked out while you're here.
I'm like, really is, and hisplace is fabulous. So, like,
it's an honor to be here, right?
So then I started getting reallyitchy and kind of getting, like,

(02:23):
a weird rash. And I'm like, Oh,I bet I got scabies because I
was on it overnight. Well, no,but, I mean, it was like, Oh,
what do you do? Like, what elsecan it be? I put, you know,
antihistamines on it. It didn'tgo away. I'm like, All right,
I'm going home. Anyways, I'llfigure out what it is when I get
home. Yeah, so I don't haveinsurance because I was planning

(02:45):
on spending a year in Europe andhad insurance over there go to
Planned Parenthood, because I'mlike, my breast is getting itchy
too and like, that lumps notgoing away. So I go in and I'm
like, I got this rash. Andthey're like, Oh, you're going
isolated in a room. And I knewthe nurse. I'm like, You got to
look at my breast, because she,like, peeked in the door. And

(03:08):
she's like, all right, show meyour breasts. I take my shirt
off, and she just opens thewalks, and she's like, you don't
have scabies. And I'm like, Oh,man. She's like, you got to go
the hospital right now. I'mlike, I'm not because I had the
pitting, like an orange, okay,it was starting to get a little
discolored. So I'm like, I can'tit. Just started a new job. I
can't go today or tomorrow. Andshe's like, I'm like, I promise

(03:32):
I will go. I get about 20 stepsaway, and the phone rings and
it's her. She goes. You have anappointment Friday, 7am they're
opening up a half hour early foryou, so you got to be there. I'm
like, fine. I'll be there.
Wonderful, really rainy day,just like downpouring, and I get

(03:53):
in there, and sure enough, thelady with the radiator radiology
tech comes in and it's doing themammogram. And I have pretty
dense breasts, right? And I'msqueezed in this machine, you
know? And there's squeezed down,like, to an inch, and like, Oh,
my God, she comes up behind me,and she hugs me, and she goes,
I'll pray for you. And I'm like,Oh, this can't be good, but

(04:14):
meanwhile, I'm still stuck inthe machine, right? So I'm like,
Yeah, that's awkward. That'sawkward a whole day of biopsies,
needle, ultrasound guidedbiopsies, they put the markers
in. I'm thinking, all right,just this is more intense than I
thought, but it'll be okay,right, right? Because I had a
mammogram the year before, andit was clean. So I'm like, you

(04:37):
can't be anything. How old wereyou at this point? 41 just
turned 41 so pretty young. Yeah.
So I find out on Monday that itis breast cancer. I'm like, All
right, and they're like, sinceit's in your lymph node, and
it's already this size, we'regoing to give you a full body
scan. Comes back, it's also inmy liver. I. So then I had to do

(04:58):
a liver biopsy. And if there'sany one reason not to drink,
it's a liver biopsy because minebled and it is the most painful
I am standing on the bed. I'mlike, if it hurts, I'll just
throw my feet together. They'relike, Oh no, we'll let you know
if it hurts. I lost control ofmy bowels on the table. I'm

(05:22):
like, Oh my God. They're like,Oh yeah, it hurts, doesn't it?

Siobhan (05:27):
You're like, yeah, that's normal. You're like, no,
it is not Yeah,

Unknown (05:30):
cuz there's a sack around your liver, and it fills
up with blood, and then itpushes on your heart and your
stomach and the spleen, and itis unbelievably painful, just
and there's no painkillers,right? Because they have to
know, so then extra four hoursin the hospital dealing with
this. So it turns out that I wasHR two positive, so which is

(05:54):
really good, because Genentechwent and you some guys from UCLA
found out what protein feeds thecancer. Okay, so as long as they
could control the protein, theycould control my cancer. Okay,
so I did six rounds of cytotoxicchemo, just really nasty stuff.

Siobhan (06:15):
That's the stuff that basically almost kills you. It
is kills

Unknown (06:18):
everything in your body. Yeah, it makes you want to
be dead, lost all my hair. Oh mygod, I have this great story. I
got a mohawk. Because when elsein life can you have a mohawk?
Yeah, so then I love thesensation of my hair being
tugged. Oh, so I was in thebathroom and I was just kind of
tugging on my hair, yeah, and itstarted to come out, but it
didn't hurt. So I'm like, I'lljust see if I can't just take it

(06:41):
out this way. Oh, my God, I hadnail patterns for two years. Do
not do it. Whatever you do. Donot do this because, like, I had
to shave my head for two years.
Oh, just straight, like, Halo,yeah? Just, Oh, my God, the

Siobhan (07:00):
reverse horseshoe, yeah.

Unknown (07:03):
So then, after about four rounds, cancer started
shrinking. Oh, so before Istarted any of the treatments,
the treatments, my tumors wentfrom the size of a walnut to a
mango. Holy shit, that's fast.
Oh my god, so so fast growing.

(07:24):
And my doctor, I remember, shemade me wait to be the last
patient, and we talked forhours, and she's like, I can't
cure you, but I could probablyextend your life a little bit,
as it is right now, you have sixweeks.

Siobhan (07:42):
I can't even imagine what someone telling you like
that, how that feels to hear it.
It's hard, yeah, like I can't.
It's mind boggling. Yeah,because I can't even you. It's
something that, like, I canempathize with a lot of things,
but I just can't to hear it likei has to be one of the scariest

(08:05):
sentences to ever come towardsyou.

Unknown (08:07):
Yeah? It's, it's, so you can't wrap your mind around
it, yeah? I mean, you're notfeeling good, so you're like,
Oh, I didn't know I was feelingthat bad, right? But within four
rounds of this cocktail, itstarted to really shrink, and
then in six rounds, it hadreally shrunk. So then I'm

(08:27):
thinking, and she's like, Idon't know how long you're gonna
live, but the longer you live,the longer you're going to live,
right? So I'm like, All right.
So she's like, that's all we cantell you, right?

Siobhan (08:42):
But in that it's like, it I was just thinking, is,
what's really kind of screwed upabout that is like, that's
really how we all walk around,yeah, like, you're only gonna
live as long as you live, andnobody knows, right? But to have
it be like, so imminent, almost,and be like, Well, we thought it
was gonna be six weeks, but nowit could be, we don't know. We
don't know, but we can'tguarantee anything, right?

Unknown (09:01):
And I loved my doctors, Dr krupaskaya, and she's
Russian. She had a Russianaccent, which was wonderful.
Like, I can't cure you. You'regoing to die. Like, oh my god,
say it again. She just looked atme. I'm like, I've had some hard
times in life. This is not thehardest thing I'm going to live
through. She's like, fairenough.

Siobhan (09:21):
Well, that's also to be able to think that or say that,
to be like, Okay, you're tellingme I have six weeks like, this
is not going to be the hardestthing I live through.

Unknown (09:29):
Yeah. And I did it all on living alone, not on my own,
because I had a lot of reallygood friends, right? But I did
it, and I highly recommend it,because when I needed to sleep,
nobody woke me up to calm theirminds, and I didn't have to
placate anybody else'simagination. Because you can't

(09:51):
really talk about it once you'regoing through it, it's still
really hard to talk about thegritty details, right? But I
know. Know what's going on, sonobody was waking me up saying
you got a fever or you have toeat because I'm allergic to
Herceptin. So I get 50milligrams of liquid Benadryl

(10:12):
before Okay, and it just swipesme out like I'll be in bed
literally for three days. I thelongest I slept was five days,
wow. And that's a lot ofBenadryl. Well, yeah, but not
even with Benadryl, just You'reso fatigued from the chemo,
right, like, and you know, yourbody will take care of itself.
If you have to go the bathroom,you will wake up and go to the

(10:33):
bathroom. If you are hungry,you're gonna wake up and eat,
yeah, and drink. But one of theside effects was I had terrible,
terrible diarrhea for fiveyears. Oh, God. Like, have you
ever had a colonoscopy? Yes,diarrhea like that every day for
five years. That's terrible, tothe point where I had to put

(10:54):
rubber bands on my pant legs. Ohgosh, because the bathroom being
15 steps away from the bed wastoo far away, and I got tired of
cleaning the carpets all thetime, right? And it's disgusting
and you don't feel good, you'realready nauseous and feeling
awful, right?

Siobhan (11:11):
Yeah? I mean, it's an ingenious way to hack that is

Unknown (11:16):
rubber bands, yeah? And then I throw away a lot of
pants, yeah? Because at somepoint, like, I'm not even gonna
attempt to wash that, right?
It's so bad.

Siobhan (11:26):
That's yeah, I did a study once where I was and I
definitely got the pill. But oneof the side effects was, like,
you would basically shit yourpants, and it was like, like,
out of nowhere, it would belike, emergent, and I'd be like,
I can't go anywhere for like,two hours after I eat now, until
and I ended up quitting thestudy. And one of the women
running the study was like,Well, you can't quit, like, we

(11:47):
need the data. I'm like, Well, Ican't shit my pants in public,
right? I don't know what to tellyou. It's not worth enough money
to, like, get paid to maybe shitmy pants in

Unknown (11:54):
public, right? And you can quit a study at any time, if
you do a clinical trial, yeah,you can walk away. Well, when
your aunt is one of the peoplerunning it, oh, running it,

Siobhan (12:06):
she's like, You can't quit. And I'm like, I can quit,
and I will, right? Like, youcan't I think I stayed in for
maybe, like, two more weeks, andthen was like, I can't keep
doing this. I'm quitting. Like,be mad at me. I won't talk to
you at Christmas. It's fine.

Unknown (12:19):
Yeah, I wore diapers.
Yeah, if I got into people'scars, Puppy pads, wow. Because
they're like, it's okay, Sarah,it's okay. I'm like, You say
that now, right? But the momentI crap in your car, you're not
gonna be. You're not gonna bebecause it's not coming out of
the seat as much as you want.
And then you have the memory ofit and you'll sell the car and
be mad at me.

Siobhan (12:39):
Yeah, yeah. You're like, I'm protecting you from
this, yeah? Much as you'retrying to be like, kind to me,
it's like, no, this is yeah.
Being sick is messy, right? Andit makes people really
uncomfortable, right? And Idon't know what to do with it,
yeah.

Unknown (12:54):
Now it was somebody's car. I didn't like, whoops, I

Siobhan (12:57):
had no idea, right? I forgot him, my bad? Yeah, I
think the humor too, issomething that people makes
people uncomfortable, but whenyou actually have gone through
some of the toughest shit, it'sthe only thing that gets you
through it.

Unknown (13:10):
Oh, and I was lucky. I found a support group for
metastatic cancer about sixmonths after I was diagnosed,
and it was great to have peers,because it's not all about, Oh,
I'm so sorry this is happeningto you. Oh, my God. It killing
you with sympathy. And it's justlike, No, in the group, it's

(13:32):
like, yes, so right? Put rubberbands on your pant legs, like,
get over it, right? Figure itout, right? It will help you
figure it out. But there's no,we're not going to cry for you,
right?

Siobhan (13:43):
Yeah, because you're also all in it together
different stages, but you're allkind of looking down the same
barrel at that

Unknown (13:48):
point, and there's so much knowledge that you can only
share with other cancerpatients. It's got to be like
when our grandfathers andfathers and brothers came back
from war, right?

Siobhan (13:58):
Yeah, I would imagine, because, yeah, that's why they
all kind of stuck together.
Yeah, they'd hang out all dayjust shooting the shit about
stuff, right? And maybe

Unknown (14:07):
not even talk about cancer, right? This particular
group, though, we did talk aboutcancer, which was nice

Siobhan (14:13):
when you were is, like, when, at what point kind of in
that journey, did you switchinto coaching, like early on or
So you were saying you wereabout six months in when you met
that group. Yeah, you were inthose treatments, and everything
started kind of shrinking,

Unknown (14:30):
and then we started helping each other out. But then
a really good friend had braincancer in German. Well, he was
living in Hungary at the time,but living His home was Berlin,
okay, so I went. He was amazing.
It was super smart engineertype, okay, spoke six languages.
Went to a hospital in Hungary.

(14:55):
They refused to treat himbecause that he was gonna die
like and. They're like, No. Sohis wife panicked and drove to
Hungary from Berlin, picked himup and then drove back back to
Berlin to go to charity. I'mlike, why don't you just put him
in an ambulance and have theambulance drive so we've got

(15:17):
there six hours earlier. Shegoes. We weren't thinking about
that, right? She was gonna fixit herself, right? So he was
mumbling in the car. Couldn'tcomprehend anything he was
saying, right? Oh, wow. They goin, they remove it, they get the
entire tumor, and within hoursof waking up from surgery, he
could talk, and within days, hecould speak all six languages

(15:40):
fluently. He could do math.
Again, it's just Modern medicineis unbelievable. And now with
AI, it's going to be fabulous,right? But he didn't have any
survivorship. I'm like, sowhen's your next scan? And he's
like, What do you mean? I'mlike, don't you have a plan of
when you're going to come backin and what doctors and who to
call. And he's like, no,

Siobhan (16:03):
they got it. I'm done.
Yeah. So then we

Unknown (16:06):
came up with one, and he's like, this is really
brilliant. And I'm like, I can'tbelieve you don't have this. And
then I taught him how to travelwith the documents that he needs
and proof of, you know, themedicines he's taking, because
you don't always want to travelwith 50 pill bottles, because it
would take up your healthsuitcase, right? Oh, I've never

(16:26):
even thought, and this was nowwe have all the apps, but we
didn't have those in the past,like epic software was just
starting to come out, becausethey do a really great health
app that you can you can get allyour stuff anywhere in the
world, and they canelectronically share scans,
share radiology films. It'sreally good. Like your health

(16:50):
app, yeah, it's all in there,nice, correct access to your
doctors. Like, it's liketechnology is amazing. It is so
it probably started coachingthen in about 2016

Siobhan (17:03):
so just two years after you're Yeah, and you're still
alive,

Unknown (17:07):
I'm still alive. I I can't believe it. And for the in
May, I started to go on a break.
So my first break ever fromchemo. I've had more than 160
rounds. That's a lot. I kind oflost track. I didn't want to
keep counting. No. I mean, Ikind of want to keep counting,
but no, it's too much. I mean,

Siobhan (17:26):
it's all probably there. It's not hard to have. Ai
be like, how many treatmentshave I had now? Right?

Unknown (17:31):
Well, then I was trying to figure out my peers, and I
think there might be 10 peoplein America that have more chemo
than I have, holy shit. Andinternationally, there must be
some, and there's probably more.
I just haven't been able tolocate any, right? Wow, but it's

Siobhan (17:48):
that's like a really exclusive club that no one wants
to be in.

Unknown (17:51):
You don't want to be in. It's the best club you never
want to be in. That's Oh, andthen in 2022 So then I've had
multiple skin cancers, justlittle ones, but 2022, I was
having these terrible headaches.
I'm thinking, Oh, finally wentto my brain, because breast
cancer wants to go to the brain,yep. So it turns out I had an

(18:14):
unruptured aneurysm in my brain.
Oh, my, of course. It had tohave brain surgery, which was, I
was fortunate, because theycould go in through the femoral
artery. Okay, so I don't, Ididn't have to shave my head, or
they didn't crack my skull.
You're like, my hair

Siobhan (18:32):
is just coming back.
Yeah, no, but

Unknown (18:36):
it was so weird waking up from that, and, you know,
they put your head in the haloso they drill into your skull.
Okay? I just remember pullingpieces of chunks of dried blood
out of my hair, but you're stillall drugged up, because, let's
face it, fentanyl and Dilaudidare wonderful, wonderful drugs
like, Oh, what is this? I'm inthe spa. This is so great.

Siobhan (18:59):
Meanwhile, the chunk of your skull, yeah?

Unknown (19:02):
When just, like, we're just all the blood from around
it, yeah? And they're like,don't, don't do that.

Siobhan (19:09):
I love that. Your ringer is a quack. I'm so sorry.
It's perfect for Ducking. It is.
Yeah, we really are in a pond.

Unknown (19:18):
And then I had to have a full hysterectomy because I
was ER positive. What is ERpositive estrogen? Oh, so if my
body were to produce estrogen,it would feed into the cancer.

Siobhan (19:31):
That's one thing that when I learned that, I was like,
we don't get any breaks, do weas women, like, no. And I don't
know if a lot of people realizethat,

Unknown (19:39):
right, and I was so I went through menopause twice,
once from the chemicals, yeah,and then once from surgery. I
have to admit, once you'rethrough the other side, though,
it's pretty nice. It is. It isnice.

Siobhan (19:49):
I've gone through chemically induced menopause
three times now because I hadreally bad endometriosis. So I
went through freshman year inhigh school, or going into my
fresh. Year in high school, andI would have to have, I had to
have, I went to an all girlsprivate Catholic school, so I
had to have a note from thedoctor that says I could take my
my, like, polyester wool sweateroff, so I would be going through

(20:11):
hot flashes with a couple of myteachers.

Unknown (20:13):
Oh, my God, we'd like, this is terrible, right? Did
your boobs grow during Yeah? Soyeah, my boobs grew twice, yep,
and haven't gone back down. I'mlike, Oh, come on, yeah.

Siobhan (20:24):
I for Christmas. A few years ago, I got myself a breast
reduction because I have a neckinjury too. And the doctor, my
PT guys were like, well, theonly thing also we can, like,
tell you to do is do somethingwith those things.

Unknown (20:37):
I was so excited to get a double mastectomy. And they're
like, no, oh, you're too faradvanced.

Siobhan (20:43):
So they so they're like, just have to try to shrink
it, yeah? Wow.

Unknown (20:47):
I'm like, and my doctor's like, why do you want a
mastectomy? I'm like, so I canlay on my stomach, and she goes,
you're not you will never heal.
Yeah? Like your cancer is so farbeyond and thank God she was

Siobhan (21:01):
honest, right? You, yeah, because that's a surgery
you don't want to have to gothrough if you

Unknown (21:05):
don't have to, no, but, oh, my god, your shoulders must
feel so much better they

Siobhan (21:09):
do, although I probably should have went even smaller,

Unknown (21:12):
yeah, but it's hard to get rid of the girls, right?

Siobhan (21:14):
It is like, I was like, talking to the doctor, and we're
trying to go back and forth forsizes. And I was like, I don't
know. I'm also, like, it's partof who I've been my whole life,
right? Like, I don't want to nothave any boobs. And then I was
like, I do want them to behousewives boobs so I never have
to wear another bra, right?
Which is not the job he gave me.
He was like, I thought you werecute. Because afterwards, I was
like, these are great. And he'slike, Well, they'll fall and,

(21:35):
you know, they'll go back tolooking more natural. And I was
like, No, I want them to stay,like, this, great, because the
bra is uncomfortable. Yeah. I'mlike, I don't want to have to
have to buy another bra. I toldyou that. And he was like, I
thought that was more of a joke.
And I was like, This is why youcan't be funny at the

Unknown (21:48):
doctors, right, right?
This is so my first doctor, DrCooper, sky. I've had six
different oncologists. I wouldbecause if you don't like your
oncologist, change.

Siobhan (22:03):
It's like a therapist, I kind of imagine it is like,
you have to have a goodrelationship with them if
they're going to be helping youfight for

Unknown (22:09):
your life. Yeah. But I'm like, do not sugarcoat
anything. If you can say it in asentence, say it in four words,
like you will die. You will belike, I'm not going to be able
to process all the fluffy stuff.
Just tell me, right?

Siobhan (22:24):
I'm kind of similar, yeah. Just yeah. Like, give me
the information so then I couldfigure out what to do about it.

Unknown (22:29):
Yeah. And I find this with most cancer survivors,
you're really blunt. Like, Idon't have time to be too
flowery, like, just get to thepoint, yeah. Like, life is
short, yeah,

Siobhan (22:42):
and we don't even know how short. So, like, let's go,
right?

Unknown (22:45):
I feel bad for some people. They're like, You're so
harsh, and I'm like, You're solax. Like, I'm sure we can meet
in the middle, but I'm not goingtoo far towards the middle. I'm
like,

Siobhan (22:56):
this is just who I am.
Yeah? You're like, like, the twosteps, but that's I'm not doing
four, yeah,

Unknown (23:01):
if I offend you, my apologize, I apologize. Get
thicker skin, or maybe we'lljust part our ways.

Siobhan (23:07):
Yep, yeah, I have a similar vibe, and it's because
I've been through so many healthissues. I haven't had cancer.
I've had skin cancers, but not Ihave not anything near what
you've done. Sounds like you'vebeen through the ringer. Yeah,
my neck injury put me through alot. So I've had and overall,
I've had a couple, like, I'vehad about a dozen surgeries for
different reasons. And my neckinjury put me through a lot of

(23:29):
tests and needles and all ofthat. And it was in so much pain
at times, I was like, I'm justgonna cut my arm off. I'm just
gonna maybe not exist anymore,right? And I was on fentanyl and
Dilaudid and Gabapentin and allof it for the nerve damage and
all of that. And so I can Iunderstand similar of the
trajectory of it and what itfeels like, and then to just

(23:50):
have no patience for people,right? Like, I'm like, You don't
understand. My head can't evenmove to the right, and you're
talking to me about someonetaking your parking spot. Like,
right? It's stupid. Go find anew one, right? Why are we still
talking about this three hours

Unknown (24:02):
later, right? I'll just get up and walk away.

Siobhan (24:05):
Yeah, I yeah, I know same. And because I bartend so
often, I can just walk away froma conversation whenever I need
to, right? Oh, like someone'sover there and it needs me,
right? And sometimes I have toremind myself, and I'm in a
party or something, that I can'tjust walk away, right?

Unknown (24:21):
But I do, yeah, I just say, excuse me and walk off.
Yeah.

Siobhan (24:24):
And I'm like, I don't, and I don't care if you think
I'm rude, right? I'm trying, nottrying to be. But if I stand
here, I'm gonna say somethingthat is rude.

Unknown (24:31):
Oh, that's good, because I just kind of like,
touch my stomach or abdomen andjust like, and they're like, Oh
yeah, thank God for that,because it gets

Siobhan (24:42):
did give you something, right?

Unknown (24:43):
It did. Oh my gosh. So I bought a motorcycle, like,
once I finished the heavy chemo,yeah, and, you know, I went in
there and I bawled. He's like,What do you want? I'm like, I'm
gonna buy a scooter. He's like,seriously? I'm like, Yeah, I had
my first motorcycle at eight. I.
He, yeah, I grew up in Colorado.
Oh, okay, um, so I'm like, Iwant to scooter. I'm rewarding

(25:07):
myself like, and I was not goingto die from chemo. And then
also, it proved to be the onlything for years that would
increase my endorphins. Oh,because I couldn't walk that
much like it took me all day towalk two miles because you're so
weak from everything, you're soweak in the fatigue, and you
can't go that far from abathroom, right? Yeah, I had

(25:31):
this great friend, Edith, comeover to my house while I was in
the heavy chemo, and she comesover and she's like, Come on,
let's go. I'm like, I don't feelgood. I'm not going. She's like,
I'm 80 years old. I just walkedtwo miles. Get your ass out of
bed. You know, she's all of 80pounds and five feet tall. Yes,
ma'am. And she took me aroundthe neighborhood. Showed me

(25:52):
where every park bench was inevery bathroom she goes. You
have to walk two miles everyday. Oh, I love Edith, and she
was just wonderful. But also,with my chemo, I couldn't be in
the sunshine, so then I havehuge hats and gloves, and I'm
pretty pale anyways, but I wasjust like, I knew I looked like

(26:13):
a freak walking around, butdidn't care.

Siobhan (26:15):
No, yeah, let your freak flag fly. Like, yeah, get
yourself healthy. Well, it's

Unknown (26:20):
hard, too, because I'd walk in the neighborhood where
I'd lived the last 1020, or 10years, and people would see me
and cross the street, oh, and itwas just at first it hurt, and
then I just chased him down. Idon't know if you saw me, but
how are you doing? And justbecause you have to push them
through their uncomfortablenessto get over it, right?

Siobhan (26:43):
Yeah, when you're when people are uncomfortable, they
avoid it. It's like when you getdivorced, like your friend, like
the people that are marrieddon't hang out with you anymore
because they feel like it'scontagious, right, right? It's
that kind of thing, like, wherepeople and death makes everyone
uncomfortable, yeah? Like, it'sone of the things that will go

(27:03):
everyone will go through. 100%of the people we love are gonna
die, but you don't want to talkabout it, right? You don't want
to deal with it. And if someoneknows someone that's either
dying or has just died, youdon't want to talk to them,
correct? It's the weirdest thingto me, yeah? Like, I'm like, Oh,
I'll talk to you, but I've beenthrough it so many times, yeah,

Unknown (27:21):
so I'd walk up the street. I lived on College
Avenue in Rock Ridge. Okay? Tocold coffee. I was sitting there
waiting for a friend to show up,and my friend, Harry, who was
Australian, moved back toAustralia, happened to come
around the corner, and he wasjust looking at me, and I'm
looking at him. I'm bald, right?
The only time that jerkness ofAustralian men was appropriate.

(27:44):
Says, like, what the hell'sgoing on there?
Sarah? Like, I don't know whatyou mean. You're dome. She just
called me DOM. He's like, No,I'm like, I got breast cancer,
and it was the most appropriateway to talk to somebody about

(28:05):
it, like, Hey, what's going on?
Like, don't say you lookdifferent. And moon face, right?
Yeah. Moon face, no hair, nowrinkles, right?

Siobhan (28:17):
Yeah. Did you rock wigs at all? Or did you, oh, my God,
I had so much fun. Did you

Unknown (28:22):
I had this bright pink wig, bangs, long Bob, Middle
Eastern men would go crazy overit. Ooh it, yeah. And then I had
long, curly hair, like, andthen, like, Mexican men love
that one.

Siobhan (28:38):
Okay, I like it.
Hairstyles, by

Unknown (28:41):
right, short, little like designer, Vida Sassoon type
cut, Yeah, different. Men likedit. It was so much fun. Blondes,
I still have them. I still playwith wigs. Women play with wigs.
Men play with wigs too.

Siobhan (28:56):
Yeah. Why not? Yeah, rocket hairpiece or four, right,
switch it up. See what it feelslike. Like it gives you, it kind
of gives you that permission tohave fun with it. Oh, yeah.
Like, I one of my aunts. She wasrocking different wigs, and I
loved it. It was she was doingshe had such fun with it too.
And it was just such a like,never knowing what she was going

(29:16):
to show up with, right? Was fun.
And being like, right, who's shegonna be today? Like, what are
we rocking?

Unknown (29:21):
And get colors, get the blues, get the greens. Because
chemo is also, like a chemicalpill. So your skin is really
beautiful because it's turningover at such a high rate. Oh,
that it's like, oh, this isreally great,

Siobhan (29:35):
really great. You're like, my skin looks like I'm 14.
Well, that feels inappropriate.
Now with everything in theworld,

Unknown (29:42):
right? Well, as long as I'm feeling myself, yeah,

Siobhan (29:46):
so what like? When did you decide to take your first
international trip during orafter all of this? Because
you've traveled extensively,yeah?

Unknown (29:54):
So diagnosed in end of September. I. I started chemo
the beginning of November, andin April of the next year, I
went on a six week trip toEurope to say goodbye to my
friends, and that was hard,because here I'm doing pretty

(30:18):
good, but they're like, there'syou have no future. They're
like, I wouldn't buy stocks.
Wow, right? So you're

Siobhan (30:30):
like, all right. And how do you hold on to your hope
when they're telling you there'sno hope? Like, it's

Unknown (30:35):
really easy to die.
What do you because all yourpriorities come into line? I
need to say goodbye to thesepeople like I wrote letters to
everybody how they touched mylife and how they made me feel,
and then say one letter for 2015and then I'm like, Oh, it's a
year later. I should update it.

(30:57):
So now I have a series of 10letters for people, so when I
finally do die, people will getthis barrage of really great
this is the reasons why I loveyou. Type letters that is
beautiful, and everyone shoulddo this. Don't wait to get a
cancer diagnosis or somethingelse. Once you're right, write a

(31:19):
Valentine and then

Siobhan (31:20):
just stick it away until Yeah. Or send you, send
it, send it. Tell people why youlove them. Yeah, yeah. I always
joke that I fall in love all thetime. Like, I'm like, oh, like,
the chef at my favoriterestaurant, I'm like, Well, you
know, I'm in love with you,right? Like, you make me you
feed me all the time, yeah, Idefinitely am always in love
with you. Or, like, one of myfavorite waitresses. Like, I'm

(31:41):
like, You're just so cute. Like,I totally am in love it. And
people have like, you make itweird. I'm like, I'm good, I
hope so, right? Like, I lovepeople. I mean, I sometimes hate
that. I love them, but I will,I'll be like, I appreciate you.
I love you. Like, I'm alwayssending, like, I love you text
people. I'll tell my favoritecustomers. I'm like, Have a good
week. I love you. Like, be good.
Like, right at it, you know?
Like, I try to make it weird,right?

Unknown (32:02):
And because you're the one going to call in a week if
they don't show up, right? Belike, Hey, are you okay?

Siobhan (32:07):
Yeah, where are you?
What's up? Yeah, yeah, yeah,because they'd love this, yeah.
And I want more people to bedoing it, right? You're I think
I would probably write lettersevery year, and then maybe tuck
them away and, like, let themhave them later, or when they
need it, or when they need it,and be like that. I wrote this
to you, like, two years ago, butI think you could use it right
now. Like, I think that's kindof a beautiful thing to have in

(32:28):
the back pocket. Yeah, yourrelationship, yes, and it's a
good reminder of why you loveall those people, right?

Unknown (32:34):
Because I also am one of those people that am done
Christmas shopping by October,because all year long. If I find
a gift that's perfect forsomeone, I buy it, I wrap it,
and maybe it's a Christmas gift.
Maybe it's like, oh, they needsomething now, right? But the
letters are the same. Yeah,that's beautiful. Why don't we
tell people the reasons why welike them? Because it makes

(32:55):
people uncomfortable.

Siobhan (32:57):
I know when someone starts giving me too many
compliments, I'm like, Okay,time out. Let's stop this is too
much, yeah, but it shouldn't bethat way. It shouldn't. It
really shouldn't. And I thinkpeople would move through the
world happier if they knew whypeople love them in the world,
yeah,

Unknown (33:13):
right, and why they're valued and needed. Do you ever
take the train back east at allfrom here or done it yet, but I
would like to at one point. SoI've done, I used to do here to
Denver all the time, because Igrew up in Denver. Family is
still in Denver. But I used tosay people like, it's too long

(33:33):
to take the train, because it'slike 36 hours. I mean, it's a
bottle of wine and a book. And Ithink every time I fell in love
with somebody, yeah, and maybethat somebody was me, every time
I was on the train, yeah, justthere's nothing to do to get to
the destination.

Siobhan (33:51):
No, I love the idea of it, and I have talked about
doing it. I just haven't had thetime or cash or, you know,
together, but it's something Iwould love to do, because I love
to write. Yeah, I'm like to justbe able to sit on the train for
a couple hours, like, write,take a nap, watch the scenery go
by, have a good conversation,and just do it all again in like
little 12 hour spurts. Frankwould be so much fun.

Unknown (34:12):
Here's a tip, so when you want to plan your meal for
the dining car, always take thelast seating, because you can
stay there longer, and thepeople you want to talk to do
it, and it can be some of thebest conversations of your life.
That's a great insider too,because it's a random collage of
people, right?

Siobhan (34:33):
It's cabaret seating, yeah? So it's you'll never know
who you're gonna get,

Unknown (34:36):
yeah, oh, I love that.
And it's just, it's intense,like the intense, like a
beautiful sunrise is intense,yeah?

Siobhan (34:46):
That's a great way to maybe meet someone, to have,
like, a little meet cute, yeah,fall in love, yeah, yeah.

Unknown (34:51):
And then you have conversations. It's all the best
part, because you're travelingso your guards are down, yeah?

Siobhan (34:58):
And you have stuff you have top. Six. You can jump off
from right. Where are you going?

Unknown (35:02):
Where? And it's fine, yeah, I'll see you later. I'm
never gonna see you again. Idon't want your number. I don't
even give me a real name, andit's all platonic, Yeah, cuz
it's the train.

Siobhan (35:15):
Oh, I love this. Yeah, yes. I'm definitely gonna have
to figure out when to go dothat, even if I take the train
back, have dinner and fly back,

Unknown (35:23):
yeah, or go to Denver, because from here to Boston
would just be that too much, andto Chicago, it's too much,

Siobhan (35:29):
yeah, but I still go out and do it. One of my great
aunts had a fear of flying, soshe would never come out here to
this coast. And then she didonce, because they took the
train out and back, nice. And sothey were on the train, I think
it was like almost two weekscombined, yeah. But they had an
amazing time, yeah. And I waslike, someday I'll do that,
like, almost in honor of her. Belike, yeah, I took the train
just because you would haveliked to you should. So I will,

(35:51):
at some point, I have a wholelist of the things, yeah,
because I and one of thereasons, especially the cancer.
Like, I want to get back to youand your story about kind of
how, because now you're helpingother people as

Unknown (36:05):
of last week too, I'm a certified cancer coach, and I'm
getting certified in advocacybecause you need a guide, and
yeah, because you need to knowwhat's coming. You need to know
what questions to ask, if youcan ask them, right? Mine isn't

(36:26):
like your traditional coachingmodel, like, I'll go to your
doctors with you, just for you,I'll have notes and be like. You
need to ask this question,right? You need to ask this
questions.

Siobhan (36:37):
So was this born out of when you were in Germany with
your friend? You told him youyou helped him write a
survivorship you called it,yeah,

Unknown (36:43):
a survivorship guide.
So it started there, but thenjust slowly evolved into, Hey,
my friend has cancer. Can youhelp them out? Right? Yes. And
then I'm really good at takingaway people's fear and turning
it into curiosity. That'spowerful, and I teach you how to
research internationally, how tofind and cite studies, because

(37:05):
Google, Google Scholar, and nowall the AIs are really great for
finding information. But youneed your doctor, and you can't
isolate your doctor, becausewhile you might be an expert in
yourself, in your type of chemo,they understand the entire body
system and the bigger picture.

(37:28):
So don't go in there saying, Oh,I'm a Google doctor, right?
You're not. And don't isolateyour care team or your
caregivers. You need them morethan they need you. That's true.
So like, I'll teach you how toread your blood work and how to
look it up. So, you know, Hey,can I change this with my diet?
Is this a big red flag that Ineed to remind the doctor to

(37:51):
look at?

Siobhan (37:52):
Yeah, because you do have to advocate for yourself.
And when you're sick, it's hardto want to right, and it's hard
to know what to advocate forright?

Unknown (38:01):
And I can teach not only the patient, but like the
family and their caregiver, likeI usually say one other person,
because otherwise it gets toomuch. But yeah, because you need
someone to say, Oh, you can dothis. Because most people go
through chemo and they get sixmaybe 12 rounds, and then
they're done. So they don'treally know that, hey, that's

(38:23):
wrong. That's not standard ofcare. It needs to be done this
way. And there's a lot of groupsthat don't want to do standard
of care. They want to get youin, get you out, right? So if
you're not comfortable whereyou're being seen, if you can
change and don't worry aboutit's gonna hurt the doctor's
feelings. It won't because, justbecause that person's not good

(38:45):
for you, it'll be perfect forsomebody else, right? So don't
worry about hurting friendshipsor feelings, right?

Siobhan (38:52):
Well, yeah, and your doctor should be your doctor,
not your friend, exactly. Imean, you should be able to be
friendly with your doctor,right? They should your
friendship shouldn't be overyour health, right?

Unknown (39:00):
And honestly, the nurses gather more information
from you than the doctors do,because you see our nurses more.
There's a different, jovialrelationship with them, yeah,
but if your doctor wants you tovisit the nurse practitioner or
the other not quite doctor, Ican't think of the PA, the PA,

(39:21):
the PA, the physician'sassistant, they have more time
to talk to you so and they'rejust as qualified, and
everything goes up to theoncologist. Everything you says
goes into your chart. So right?
Be aware of that, but talk toeveryone, and just because
you're talking to the PA doesnot mean you're getting a less
of a person or less of adiagnosis, right? They have more

(39:42):
time,

Siobhan (39:44):
yeah, and sometimes they can come up with solutions
that the doctor may not right,and they're out of yet because
they're doing more research, orthey're doing they're talking to
more people, right?

Unknown (39:53):
And they know more of your symptoms because you're
talking more to them. It's notlike 15 minutes doing business,
right? So talk to the. Entireteam, because you need that
entire team, and you're notgetting a less of a cancer
experience than just seeing theoncologist.

Siobhan (40:09):
So you it's what, almost it's what, 12 years
later, 1111, years later, 11years And do you still have it
like do they still tell you theydon't know how long you have?

Unknown (40:24):
Well, now I'm stable, stable,

Siobhan (40:26):
and I'm on a break.
You're living with cancer. I'm

Unknown (40:28):
living with cancer, but my security blanket is gone. Of
hey, maybe I can have an extradrink, because I never quit
drinking alcohol. Okay? BecauseI know that I have this backup
of keeping that protein incheck, but it got to the point
where I would weep the nightbefore treatment because I

(40:50):
didn't want it anymore, like,and that probably was going on
for five years, like, I just, Ican't do it. I cannot keep doing
this, right?

Siobhan (40:58):
Because how often do you still have to get treatments
three

Unknown (41:01):
weeks every three weeks, wow. But now I haven't
been since April, okay? And Imiss my nurses. I miss the
admissions people, because Iwould see them more than friends
and family, because I literallyspent eight hours a week at the
doctors for 10 years. Yeah?

Siobhan (41:22):
So those people become your right? It's almost like
your work family, yeah, yeah.
Those have to be hard, hardthings to miss. Yeah?

Unknown (41:33):
Like, you don't want to see them, but you do, yeah. So
it's hard, it's hard to be on abreak, much harder than I
thought it

Siobhan (41:40):
would be. And how long do you get to take a break for,
until you get a

Unknown (41:43):
bad scan, okay? Or until nervousness comes in and,
like, I want to go back ontreatment, okay?

Siobhan (41:50):
But that's like a you're always weighing decision,
like, that's heavy to have onyourself kind of all the time.
Yeah, Does it still feel heavy,or is it just kind of become
normal life.

Unknown (42:01):
It becomes normal life.
But now I've got to startthinking of, oh my god, I might
not die. So now I've got torebuild the coffers, because 10
years of chemo is expensive.
It's Oh my god, expensivebecause, you know, I was doing
acupuncture on the side, yeah,supplements on the side,
different, you know, a gym, Ihaven't worked full time in 10

(42:26):
years, right?

Siobhan (42:27):
Yeah, you can't if you're going in for treatments.
Okay? Weeks? Yeah, wow.

Unknown (42:32):
And I feel bad right now with the rising medical
class for next year, yeah?

Siobhan (42:37):
And insurance just trying not to pay for anything,
right?

Unknown (42:40):
And then people on Medicare, Medicaid, yeah? Like,

Siobhan (42:44):
it's scary to think that we have all of these
advancements right, and all ofthese miracles sitting around,
but we want to the barrier toentry. We're just kind of making
bigger and bigger and bigger,right?

Unknown (42:55):
And then you're looking at these record level profits,
yep, for pharmaceuticalcompanies. And then you realize,
why is my medicine here $80,000every three weeks, but in
Germany, it's 3000 right? Andpeople don't understand that's
the disparity we're talkingabout. Like, yeah, in there's no
reason. Yeah, there isn't. Whyam I going bankrupt when you're

(43:16):
not?

Siobhan (43:16):
Yeah, it's just greed.
It is, and it's there's no wayaround it.

Unknown (43:20):
No, I want the innovation to still come. But do
we have to have that much of adifference, right?

Siobhan (43:27):
Yeah, when you are getting a golden parachute, or
you're getting millions andmillions of dollars in a bonus,
and your your employees don'thave dental, right? Don't have
insurance, or can't or havethree jobs, right?

Unknown (43:39):
Or if you get a grant from the government to do this
medicine, and then you chargefull price, yes, so we're paying
for it twice.

Siobhan (43:47):
Yeah, I think most people don't realize that. I
know when I learned that, I waslike, Wait a second, our
taxpayers tax money pays for allof the research, right? All of
the R and D, like, all of it,and then they get to charge us
to buy the stuff that theyhappen to be able to create
because we paid them to createit right, like they should not

(44:07):
be making that much profit offthey should not, because they're
using our money to make itright. So how are we paying for
all of it? And they get all ofthe proceeds, yeah? Where's the
investment for the government?
Right? Where's the return oninvestment? No business, no
business has no return oninvestments, right? So it's
crazy,

Unknown (44:27):
and we need to go back to that model. And I do think
Trump's doing a good thing,holding right now. He's doing
the chip companies and socialmedia to make them responsible.
And if you got loan from us, wedid 10% of the company right?

Siobhan (44:42):
I've been on a bit of a news diet recently.

Unknown (44:46):
I feel bad for so I travel all over the country,
like this year, I was threemonths in Colorado, and I would
drive back and forth, and Iwould go to a diner and talk
with people I would like say.
May I sit with you? Or pleasesit with me. We got to talk
politics. I love this andbecause the news feeds are
different everywhere in thecountry, right? But as for those

(45:07):
Maga people in the country, theywant exactly what we want. Well,
yeah, but it's presenteddifferently, and we have to come
back together, and we've got toget the media out of this
diversification

Siobhan (45:24):
right, and the visit Ness, I can never get that word,
because I hate it, thedivisiveness of people. Like, I
don't understand when peoplestarted to be on a team, right?
And like, but the team's nothuman, right? It's like a thing,
an inanimate thing, right? Orlike a color, or like a
political like, people used tohave politics, but they weren't

(45:48):
the politician, like, or, right?
They weren't the whole idea,right? Like, you would have
different let's get to thisplace, and we had different ways
of getting there, but it wasn'tlike you're an awful person,
because you don't think that theway I want to get there is good,
right? And now it's like, Idon't I disagree with you, and
so now you're a terrible person,right?

Unknown (46:06):
Politics is not a zero sum game. No, this government
shutdown because of politicalparty lines is crazy, right? Do
your job,

Siobhan (46:14):
right, and if you don't want to do your job, get out of
the way and let someone thatwants to

Unknown (46:18):
do it do it right. And people need to vote for where
they're at, not where they wantto

Siobhan (46:22):
be, right? Like, yeah, someone not voting in their best
interest is also crazy to me,right? Or being a one issue
voter, right? I understand that.
That means a lot to you. But ifthat comes at the expense of all
of these other things, is itreally the most important thing
to you, right? Like, or that'sit. That's the one thing that
you care about. You don't careabout all of this other stuff,
yeah. Like, and no matter whatyou leaning on, like, step back

(46:42):
and look at the bigger picture.
Yeah. And is it good foreverybody? Yeah, we all
compromise, right?

Unknown (46:50):
Like, justice is the greatest good for the greatest
number of people, right?

Siobhan (46:54):
And it just because it makes it slightly inconvenient
for you, doesn't make it wrong,right? Like, I just when people
get so nasty too, right? Like,you all want the same thing,
right?

Unknown (47:08):
And if people like broke down how much the health
care for everyone around themcosts versus what we pay in
subsidies to corporations, yeah.
Why are you mad at your neighborgetting heart surgery? Right? I
mean, seriously, yeah, it costsyou $1 a day for your neighbor
to have heart surgery, which youyou're gonna need soon too,

(47:30):
right?

Siobhan (47:32):
You're gonna want access to all of this medicine
when it's your turn, but youwant to prevent someone else
from having it, right? Becausethen you think you won't get it,
but if you're preventing them toget it. You're preventing
yourself from getting it, yeah?
Like it's not pie, right?

Unknown (47:45):
And it's $1 or maybe it's $200 a year, or $2 a day,
so $700 a year in the taxesyou're already paying, right?
Goes for really good stuff HeadStart. Yeah? Why would you not
want kids to be prepared tolearn, right?

Siobhan (48:02):
Or learn how to be good humans, right?

Unknown (48:05):
Or an apple, right? Why would you begrudge a child an
apple?

Siobhan (48:09):
Yeah, and when you like, can distill it down to
that. There's nobody that can. Idon't think there's anyone that
can argue with it. But somehow,there's still people that are
like but that kid should get anapple from their own Bootstrap
or, you know, they're like,right? Come up with some
ridiculous kind of right reasonwhy they're not being
unreasonable,

Unknown (48:28):
like, what happened to empathy? I don't know.

Siobhan (48:32):
I think not enough people, and it sounds weird, but
not enough people have struggledbecause, right, they are. So
many people have gotten to to apoint that they're so entitled,
and they haven't had a roughspot in their life, so they
haven't had to come back fromsomething. They're so ignorant,
yeah? So they just think life iseasy and everyone should be as
good as they are. And it's like,no, but you're born on second

(48:53):
base or third base, or youhaven't even, you didn't even
get up to home plate to bat yet,right? And your life is hard.

Unknown (49:01):
This is also why I got into cancer coaching, is people
didn't know what to expect, andthey were taking less than they
should, to the point like it washarming themselves. Like, no,
you have to take five extraminutes and talk to the doctor
about this. You have to tellthem what your symptoms are.
Like, don't be overly gracious,because you have insurance. They

(49:23):
have all the medicine to helpyou. You have to, we have to
have enough backbone to stand upfor yourself. Yeah?

Siobhan (49:30):
The advocacy part of it of saying, like, okay, but this
is also happening. And how do wetake care of this? Part of this
Yeah, symptom, and some of thosesymptoms can inform them that
something is really wrong, orYeah, or working

Unknown (49:43):
right, because you might have an infection, right,
and you're causing yourselfharm, and it all it takes is a
minute out of your day. So it'sthe same thing, instead of
money, we're talking about time,yeah, and for the most part,
most people in the healthcaresystem have empathy. So. Yeah,
there's a lot of people whosejobs are better off if they

(50:04):
don't have empathy, like yoursurgeon needs to not see you as
a person in order to cut intoyou, to take out the cancer,
right? Right? Your oncologistshouldn't have a lot of empathy.
They should be compassionate,but you want them to deal with
the cancer, not necessarily youright, and that's where the rest
of the team takes care of theindividual, but the oncologist

(50:26):
is there to kill the cancer.
Yeah, not hold your hands,right? But you want, you want
good bedside manner, but theycan't do both, right, and they
shouldn't.

Siobhan (50:36):
Yeah, that's a lot of it's a lot of emotional weight
to have to carry when,especially when you're seeing,
how many patients do they see aday, right? Sometimes 20 a day,
yeah, that are all possiblydying, yeah? And they're trying
to manage all of making suretheir medicines are all
specifically Correct, correct.
Like, yeah, let them use theirbrain power on that, and not
asking me about my dog, right?

Unknown (50:57):
And also, do you as a patient have to be able to tell
your doctor what your symptomsare, not your caregiver, because
that's not their job, and benice to your caregivers. You
need them more than they needyou. So I always advocate that
at the beginning, if it's aspouse or sibling, you tell them

(51:17):
which days they can have twodays off, two nights off every
week to do whatever they want,if they want to go out and get
drunk, yeah, that's their thing,if they want to go out and meet
up with friends or sit on thebeach and cry. Because also, as
the cancer patient, you needalone time too to process,
right? And you don't need peoplehovering all the time, but you

(51:40):
need to be able to tell yourdoctor, I have these symptoms,
and then the caregiver can say,Oh, yes, you forgot this one,
right? But you cannot give awayyour power to other people,
yeah,

Siobhan (51:51):
because you're they're not the ones fighting it you
are, right? So if you can't evenstand up for you in that room,
how are you standing up in yourown body? Correct? That's heavy,
yeah,

Unknown (52:01):
like, for some of my clients, depending where they
are, because I specialize inmetastatic, okay, it's one of
those things we get used tolooking in the mirror and
saying, I am going to die.
Because the minute you acceptit, your whole world explodes
and opens up because you're nolonger like closing your eyes to
it, and literally, like notseeing your options and not

(52:25):
seeing what you have to do, andthe last thing you want to do is
be on that deathbed withregrets, right?

Siobhan (52:33):
Yeah, I imagine it puts everything, kind of into a
sharper focus does. And once youcan kind of, I imagine, if you
can accept it, then it's now,what? What am I going to do with
the time that I have?

Unknown (52:44):
Right? What do I need to do? What do I want to do?
Right? The burden, it justloosens your burden. And it's
morbid in a way, but the momentyou accept it, like, Yeah, I'm
gonna die, gonna die sooner. Iknow what's going to kill me,
right?

Siobhan (53:04):
But then I mean, 11 years later, it hasn't killed
you. Now you have a whole newset of problems. I do because
how do you let How do you live?
How do you go from the survivalto the thriving?

Unknown (53:16):
Can I go? My biggest thing right now is I used to
sleep 10 to 1214, hours everyday. And now I go to bed early,
but I'm not falling asleep like,oh, and then put my days aren't
busy enough to fill up 14 hourswhen I'm used to filling up 10
hours, right? And now I'm like,and I have 16 hours, and then

(53:38):
you're like, how much energy doI have? Because in the past, I
wouldn't want to start a projectthat I wasn't able to finish,
right? And now I'm like, Oh,maybe I can do it, but then I
still have really bad days, andthen I'm in bed, I'm like, oh, I
should not have started that,but, but you don't know, right?
And it's frustrating. I it's,

Siobhan (54:01):
it's a that's even more of a complex problem, almost,
right? Because you don't want tobe doing things that you're
feeling like you're never goingto finish, because then it's
just that's a frustration,right? But then you want to not
be doing nothing, right? Thenyou're squandering the time. It
feels like now you have all thisextra time and you want to make

(54:22):
the most of it, yeah, but youmight feel like shit tomorrow.
So what do you start like,

Unknown (54:26):
like, do you go back to work full time and take on those
commitments,

Siobhan (54:30):
and then what happens if you have a couple bad days?

Unknown (54:33):
Or what happens when it recurs, right? Or when it recurs
because it's going to it's just,did I falsely present myself to
companies, right? Did I not? AmI babying myself too much? And
like, in my situation, I don'thave any peers, like, there's
nobody to call. I've calledGenentech to try to talk to the

(54:54):
nurses. I'm like, Could you lookto see if there's anybody at
this level? Right? Yeah. Andthey're like, Yeah, once people
don't do treatment anymore, wedon't follow them. Well, don't
you think you

Siobhan (55:06):
should, right? Isn't there a lot of data in there
that could be helpful? One wouldthink so. Like, how long after?

Unknown (55:13):
Like, maybe not for Genentech, but for the doctors,
absolutely right? And becausenow treatments are going to they
want you in treatment the restof

Siobhan (55:21):
your life. Well, that's how they will make their money,
right? And is

Unknown (55:25):
that right or fair? And then at that point, don't they
want to talk to me, because I'vebeen on it as far as, like, 1%
right?

Siobhan (55:33):
What's the long term side effects? What are you
dealing with? Still? What couldthey make you making better for?
Because it's unfortunately, likeyou are the first in this, but
they will be more like you,right? Because more people will
get this type of cancer and havethese kind of results and
continue to live past when theythought they would, yeah,
hopefully. I mean, yeah, that'stheir that. I'm sure that's
their goal. That's our goal,yeah. So yeah, why wouldn't they

(55:57):
want to be kind of followingalong, yeah, you're their number
one consumer, right?

Unknown (56:03):
You should be getting made a lot of money. I was the
golden goose, yeah?

Siobhan (56:07):
And now they're trying to line up to have other people
be their geese, right?

Unknown (56:11):
They would. Why aren't those people asking, right, and
making the demand and once itcomes around. But you know,
people, when they get cancerdiagnosis, they really just get
on that conveyor belt, themajority of people, and they
don't ask, and they don't say,why aren't we doing this? So to
go back to, like, the studiesand how I help people, I'm like,

(56:32):
so three days before you go tothe doctor, you send them a list
of all of your questions andyour studies. Like, Hey, I saw
this out of Brazil. I like thesethree things. And then you
include the article in thatemail, right? So then the doctor
can read it. They know thatyou're not just pulling

(56:52):
something out of thin air. Like,is this an option? Because
they're busy, they might nothave seen the latest

Siobhan (57:00):
research studies, yeah, and there's stuff going on all
over the world. So they can't,they can't, can't assume they're
going to know everything fromeverywhere, no, especially
because they're grinding intheir job every

Unknown (57:11):
day, right? And you're an expert in you and your type
of cancer, right? They'reexperts in a more general way,
like breast cancer is usuallyjust breast cancer doctors, but
yeah,

Siobhan (57:24):
it's, how did you figure this all out? Is it just
because you are, like, what wasyour Yeah, like, what was your
education? I mean, you weregoing to be a sommelier. So I
know that you can do kind ofdetail work and write research,
and

Unknown (57:43):
I'd like that. But also it came about that I had
friends. I went to a Japaneseuniversity. So my friends are

Siobhan (57:50):
all over the world.
That's amazing.

Unknown (57:53):
So people said, like, hey, I'll look up in Japan,
what's going on, right? Peoplein Brazil was looking stuff up.
And my friends in Australia,Germany and Poland. So I'm like,
wow, everybody should be doingthis, yeah. And then, you know,
I worked for I was either goingto become a lawyer, there we go.
And then it was $200,000 to geta law degree, right? And then

(58:17):
I'm like, wonder how much itcost you'd be a master Psalm.
And it's like 100 grand masterPsalms make more money than your
average lawyer. Yep, and it's amuch better lifestyle.

Siobhan (58:26):
Yes, it's drinking wine for a living,

Unknown (58:29):
but you go and you work for resorts, yeah, all over the
world, yeah, and it's notsolving people's problems.
You're not in trial, although Idid want to be a litigator, and
it's just, oh my god, this is somuch better, yeah, and, but it
was really a group of my friendshelped me realize we need more
of this, right? And then myoncologists are like, Oh my god,

(58:52):
I love it when people then youhelp people prepare for their
appointments, because they havea question, and when I also
teach them terminology, becauseif you don't know the
terminology and the vocabulary,you can't have an Intel
intellectual conversation withyour doctor, right?

Siobhan (59:10):
Yeah, it's and it's overwhelming, because there's so
many things to learn when you goin and, like, I went to nursing
school, and still, when I wasgoing through some of the stuff,
I was like, Wait, what are wetalking about? What are we
doing, where, right? And I wentto massage school, so I anatomy
and physiology, I was wellversed in. And still was like,
Wait a second, I don'tunderstand that. Like, wait,

(59:30):
what are we talking about now?
And it was confusing, yeah, andI felt like I was familiar with
the material,

Unknown (59:36):
yeah, and, and you're sick, yeah, and you're you've
got brain fog. Yes. One thing Ifound I probably shouldn't say
this, but the best thing for mebecause I did everything on my
own, I started taking Ritalininitially for doctors visits, so
I could be awake and focused.
But fatigue is my number twoside effect. So. I take extended

(59:57):
release Ritalin now every day.
Yeah, and it has changed mylife, because I would not get
out of bed if it weren't forRitalin, wow.

Siobhan (01:00:09):
Well, no, I mean, it's, I think it gets a bad rap,
because so many people use itfor recreational and students
use it just to kind of get bywhen they don't need it. But
when you need it, it is a lifechanging thing, right?

Unknown (01:00:20):
And there's a learning curve. Yeah, I don't think
children should be on this drug,because I didn't like it at
first. It took me six months toa year to get used

Siobhan (01:00:32):
to it, yeah, yeah, because it changes everything,
right?

Unknown (01:00:35):
And then I also found out this is how people get PhDs.
Yes, that some people have thisfocus.

Siobhan (01:00:42):
Yeah, some people don't even need Ritalin for that,
right? What I understand, Idon't believe it, but Right?

Unknown (01:00:47):
And just for that focus to sit and be able to work for
five hours?

Siobhan (01:00:50):
Yeah, it's incredible.
I have used it a few timesbecause I have ADHD and I a
couple of friends were like, trythis. And I was like, Do you
know you can just sit down andwork, right? I didn't have to
clean my apartment. I have todo, like, I got so much work
done, yeah? And I was like, andI wanted to keep working after
six hours, yeah? And I was like,I That's amazing, right? Yeah, I

(01:01:12):
need to go to the doctor's stat,like, yeah.

Unknown (01:01:16):
And, well, like, AI with off label drugs, yep,
quality of life for cancerpatients is going to get
incredible. It's going to bereally good.

Siobhan (01:01:26):
Are you a big proponent of supplements and dietary

Unknown (01:01:33):
I am. I'm not like if you're going to do it, you have
to buy high quality right?
Because now they're sayingsugar, cancer does not come from
sugar. Sugar does not bringcancer to you, okay? But they're
now saying supplements are hardon the body, and this is my

(01:01:55):
opinion. It's not in anyscientific fact, I would assume
that's because your bodily yourinternal organs are already
suffering, and then, dependingon what's in that supplement, it
could really harm your liver,right, or your esophagus and
your stomach.

Siobhan (01:02:15):
So, yeah, because it's your body now processing another
thing, right?

Unknown (01:02:20):
And beyond, like vitamin D, if Why aren't you
getting it from food? Andanother thing is, most people
are only in chemo for threemonths, maybe six months. You
can go six months without reallydamaging your body without
certain supplements andnutrition, right? I lived

(01:02:43):
literally on dark chocolate,avocados and eggs, coffee, red
wine for five years. Wow. And byred wine, I mean, like, an
ounce, like, I just, I wanted totaste it. I wanted to, I wanted
the ritual at night to sit withmy book and have it, and I would

(01:03:06):
say, I don't think that I drankit all right. On the other hand,
there is something about alcoholaged in oak that alleviated my
watery eyes and ruddy nose,interesting, and it was less
harmful on my liver than anantihistamine. So, and it wasn't

(01:03:32):
a lot. There was just somethingabout the histamines in it,
right, that for me, offset it.
And I did have one oncologistsay it might work for you,
because I would always ask,What's one thing that will
benefit me that you probablyshouldn't tell me. That's a
really great question. It's agreat question.

Siobhan (01:03:53):
That's a really great question. Yeah,

Unknown (01:03:55):
like, you know it's better on your body than
Claritin or right? One thingelse I absolutely love, and
swear by edibles. Yeah, I do notlike being stoned. I hate it,
but Kiva blueberries, here's ashout out for you. They're made
with hash, and I haveunbelievable joint pain. And for

(01:04:17):
you people just listening to uslike my eyes are watering up,
like, yeah, my pain is sofucking unreal six months on a
break that it's just there's,it's relentless, and you can't
take a leave every day, and youcan't take opiates every day,
and edibles, yeah, not only towhat help you sleep through the

(01:04:39):
night. For me, it gives me alittle bit of euphoria, but the
pain, yeah, because also youdon't want the medicines. You
don't want the havoc on yourbowels that those medicines
caused,

Siobhan (01:04:52):
yep, when I was coming off all of my pain medicine from
my neck injury, I started usingedibles. Yeah, and you. People
would be it was alwaysinteresting to see the
difference, because they'd belike, Oh, you're just high. I'm
like, Yes, but I'm not high onopiates, right? And there was
more judgment for me beingstoned than for me being on

(01:05:12):
opiates, right? But I'm like,but on opiates, I wouldn't leave
my couch. And I'm here becauseI'm just slightly stoned, right?
And I can think more clearly,and I know that my reactions are
mine and not because of myshould I be taking a pill? Is it
almost time to take a pill? CanI take another pill? When can I
like, it wasn't my addiction tothe opiates, right, and like,

(01:05:34):
the up and down that it does toyour emotions, right? It was
like the steadiness of I am alittle stoned, so, like, I'm a
little like, but I'm notzigzagging right and distracted
by the can I take another pillthat's not really helping my
pain, even though I think itshould be. Yeah?

Unknown (01:05:53):
So I have a great story. I was just in Boston this
weekend, this past weekend, andI walked the Freedom Trail. It
says what? It's three miles.
Yeah, it was 14 miles. You'regonna love it. It's so much to
see. It's so fun, but it's allon concrete. Yes, it's on
cobblestone, right? And I went,I didn't fly with any edibles,

(01:06:14):
because you shouldn't do that,right? And I didn't realize they
were legal, so I was the nextnight, the next day, I woke up
and I could barely move. I'mlike, Oh my God. Like, I do not
want this pain again.

Siobhan (01:06:29):
When's the last time you walked 14 miles in a day?

Unknown (01:06:33):
It's been a long time, yeah, and not knowing that I'd
walked 14 miles, right? Like, itwas a great day, yeah. So I
walked by this place. I'm like,oh my god, do you guys really
have edibles? And they're like,yeah. So I go in, and I was just
there for one night, one morenight. So I'm like, I just want
one or two. I don't want to buypackage of 20, right? So I go

(01:06:56):
out and I'm leaving, and thesecure guys, like, you didn't
buy anything, like, well, I'monly here one more night. I just
want, like, four or five, one orhe goes buy the cookies. I'm
like, what cookies? So you goback in. He's like, give her the
cookies. The girl's like, well,she said she wanted one or two.
And he's like, these are fiveversus 20. Like, read it
together. Yeah, that

Siobhan (01:07:17):
security God should be a budtender. That's what I said.

Unknown (01:07:19):
I'm like, Oh, my God, you should be in there, right?
So I was walking back to thehotel, and I went to open the
package, and I couldn't theplastic broke off of it, so I
walked by a flower vendor thatwas packing up for the night,
yeah, nice young gentleman tohelp me open the package. And
I'm like, Hey, I just want to doyou want the rest you know that
they're safe. I just opened it,and his whole face lit up. He's

(01:07:42):
like, really? I'm like, takethem, because I'm just gonna
leave him in the hotel room,right? Oh, that was sweet. Yeah,
this on the next morning. He'swaving right on. But edibles do
don't not do edibles because youdon't like marijuana, right? Try
them. And honestly, I hadn'tdone any marijuana before

(01:08:03):
getting cancer, and

Siobhan (01:08:04):
we know that because you just said I haven't done any
marijuana, right?

Unknown (01:08:09):
And I still do. People give me bud all the time. I'm
like, What am I gonna do withthis? I'm not gonna smoke it
now. You can give it to me.
Seriously, I have a bunchbecause and they're like, Well,
you can make your own edibles.
I'm like, No, I like the Kivabecause you know exactly how
much you're getting, right?
Yeah. And it's not like having abite of a brownie and you got
100 milligrams on one bite.

(01:08:32):
Yeah?

Siobhan (01:08:32):
See, I do kind of like the roulette of making my own at
times. Oh, but those are forlike, a Sunday afternoon when
I'm not going anywhere, like, ifI have to be out in the world,
then yes, like, I'll take a Kivais a brand I really like. Wild
is another brand that I reallylike. They have a raspberry
sativa that I love to use beforeI work out, because it gives

(01:08:52):
this it's just got a littleburst of energy in it. With the
sativa that they have, it'sreally great for that, and not
sponsors, but you can be right

Unknown (01:09:02):
and ask your budtender, yep. Say I want them for sleep,
yeah. I want them for this,yeah.

Siobhan (01:09:09):
I want them to help me eat. I want them to help me not
eat, because the differentterpenes in different products
will help your body do differentright. I want my brain to slow
down, yep, and yeah, if you finda good shop. They, the people
that work there are very, whatwe call a heady and they will
tell you all of it, yeah, andthey different products are for
different things. There's acouple Mary, Mary's medicals, I

(01:09:30):
think it's called, they havegreat patches. So if you have,
like, a joint that's really bad,they have patches that you can
put on. They'll have a littlebit of lidocaine, CBD and THC in
them that can really help withjoint pain. I had no idea they
make some really good bombs formuscle pain, nerve pain. So
there's like, tons of productsout there that are really,

(01:09:52):
really great for it, right?

Unknown (01:09:53):
So I was responsible for getting not Steve Alvarez,
do you know him? He was one. Ithink his last name is Alvarez.
He was the guy in Californialobbying to get medical
marijuana legal, and then justinto recreational Oh, okay, and
I was at a restaurant, and hewas there. I was a hostess at a

(01:10:14):
restaurant, and I walked up tothe table. I'm like, I have to
interrupt you. I understand thatyou're here. It was the
commission to get marijuanalegal, okay? And I'm like, I
broke down in tears. I'm like,It's changed my life. This stuff
has to be legal, yeah? Like,seriously, if it's cruel that
it's not, and I was literally intears, and I am not a pretty

(01:10:37):
crier, and they're like,seriously, like, Steve's like, I
don't know who this girl is,right, don't know. And I'm like,
seriously, here's my port. I'mnot lying. Like, yeah, wow, it
is. And do not judge anybodydoing it, yeah,

Siobhan (01:10:51):
oh yeah, no. Like, a couple people in my journey when
I was, especially when I wasfirst coming off everything,
people are like, oh yeah. Youjust always and now I joke
about, I'm like, Yeah, weed ismy signature scent, right? Okay
with it, right? Like, I dealwith pain all the time, too. And
like, sometimes I've been tryingto help figure out how to
describe it to someone. Andlike, when you have pain that's

(01:11:11):
on, like, a spectrum, some daysit's like someone's just humming
in my ear, and it's annoying,but I can block it out, yeah.
And other days, it's like,there's a five year old
screaming at the top of theirlungs in my ear, and I cannot
think about anything else otherthan how much pain I'm in, yeah?
And I'll be talking to someone,and I'm like, I have no idea
what you just said to me, yeah,because I'm trying to pay
attention to you, but all I canhear is like, yeah, and I can't

(01:11:34):
nothing else is gonna, like,distract

Unknown (01:11:36):
it, right? And mindful meditation works to a point,
yeah, but then it doesn't.

Siobhan (01:11:41):
Yeah, some days there's just nothing that works other
than crawling back into my bedand being like, I can't. I'm not
going to do this today, right?
And I hate when those momentshappen, because then I feel like
I'm weak and I feel like I am,like, being a baby, and then
other times, I'm like, I used tonot leave my house for days,
yeah, because my pain would beso bad, I would be in my bed
with all the lights off incomplete silence and darkness.
And like, I've come so far,like, if I have a bad day, I can

(01:12:04):
have a bad day, right? And it'slike not being judgy of it,
right?

Unknown (01:12:09):
And pain presents itself outwardly or and inwardly
different, like, it's not likeyou wake up in your legs are
achy, like you could just be ina bad mood and not know it,
yeah, I know if I swear a lotI'm in pain, yeah, because you
learn to overwrite it, yeah. Andthen that's when it gets really

(01:12:32):
scary. Yeah? Cuz, yeah, roadrage comes out this way. Oh,
yeah. Like, just overreacting,drastically overreacting,

Siobhan (01:12:43):
yeah, yeah. And sometimes you do forget that,
like your mood is and then Iwill, because you do block it
out, yeah, you come to a certainpoint where you can kind of just
block it out, and then it'slike, all of a sudden it creeps
up, and you're like, Oh yeah,that is killing me. Like, that's
why I've been such a bitch allday. Yeah? And it's like, what?

(01:13:03):
How did I not realize that it'sbecause my neck is extra stiff
today and I can't really turn ormy hand is not working as well
for those are, like, my littlesymptoms that, like, I will just
be like, I haven't been able to,like, do this all day. I can't
get anything open today, yeah?
And I'm like, oh, it's becausemy hand is numb and I can't
everything hurts there. So wheredo you have neuropathy from my
neck down into my right hand andthen down into behind my

(01:13:25):
shoulder blade? So I used tolose all of the feeling in my
right hand, and it would, like,basically just go dead. And I
would drop stuff and be like,Oh, that's on the floor now,
right? And he can't pick it up.
I can't pick it up. And I can't,like, I can't hold a pen very
much if I start to write bylike, the third sentence, it
looks like a five year old,yeah, because I can't keep the
grip, and it's painful, right?

Unknown (01:13:47):
And then here's stuff they don't tell you about
gabapentin, because my wholebody just and then, like, I'm
really not feeling my feet thatmuch anymore. Oh, yeah, but it
deadens all of your nerves. Sosex sucks, or it's harder to
orgasm. They don't tell youthis. You can do it. Keep at it,

(01:14:10):
but then you need a

Siobhan (01:14:11):
really good lover, yeah? Because who's patient and
willing, yeah?

Unknown (01:14:17):
So I don't know if that's the blessing of
neuropathy or the curse or ofGabapentin? Yeah, because you're
not going off Gabapentin so youcan have a better orgasm. No,
you're not. But God, wouldn'tthat be nice? Yeah, that one and
one thing about a cancer coachtoo is you get to ask your

(01:14:38):
cancer coach, especially me,because I'm kind of like a
coach, mentor, consultant. I'lltell you anything, right?

Siobhan (01:14:45):
Well, that's how I think you need to be, because
who else is going to tell you,right? Or give you the insider
information like that or likebecause someone might be on GABA
Fenton and not even realizethat, that's why their sex drive
is gone, right? Because theyprobably think it's like chemo
medicine, where it's like, no,it's not the chemo. It's this
one. Right?

Unknown (01:15:00):
And then the lack of estrogen in your body, and the
feeling of pins and needles andjust straight up glass crushed
in your vagina, and it's likeyou got to ease your women back
into this slowly, like we wantto have sex, we don't want to
cringe and pull away, but yougot to work with us, right,

Siobhan (01:15:22):
especially because if you can get to that point, those
endorphins will help you feelbetter.

Unknown (01:15:26):
Oh, and then the orgasm is incredible, right? Once you
work through it, yeah?

Siobhan (01:15:29):
And I'm sure once you kind of gotten through it a few
times, it's easier to kind ofget back into it, yeah, and then
stay into it, right?

Unknown (01:15:35):
But men do not leave your wives because she doesn't
want sex she does, right? Yougot to help her work her body

Siobhan (01:15:43):
right, do the dishes.
That will start it right.

Unknown (01:15:46):
And, like, smack her ass in the morning, right?
Because it takes your law, yourbody longer to warm up. Yeah,
and prepare, yeah. Let her knowthat you're thinking about her
all day. Flirt, yeah, flirt,smack, kiss her on the ear and
then walk away. Make her attackyou, right? Like, what happened
to seduction?

Siobhan (01:16:02):
I don't know. I think in all of life, yeah, well, I
think too, because you can,like, DoorDash Dick, or whatever
you were into that day, right?
You can, you'll, you could findsomeone to come over. Did you

Unknown (01:16:12):
just say DoorDash dick?
Yes, can you DoorDash This is,yeah.

Siobhan (01:16:15):
Well, like, young, I mean, like, yeah, the Tinder,
that's what they Oh, thatbasically, to me, is door
dashing dick. Oh, my God, that'sfabulous. Like, when I was
young, we would never tellsomeone where we live, and now
these people will just like, belike, yeah, come over. Like,
here's my and people, I do notrecommend it.

Unknown (01:16:34):
Oh, and lock up your meds. Here's the bad thing. Oh,
yes, I've had people steal mymeds. Yeah, who steals pain meds
from a cancer patient?

Siobhan (01:16:43):
There's a lot of them.
Yeah, people will do it. I usedto hide my meds too, because
everybody knew I was on, I wason all kinds of shit. But then
you hide your meds and then youlose them. Yep, I used to find
them in the right randomizedplaces. And like, why are these
here? Right? Oh, yeah, cuz soand so was coming over, and I
stuffed them so no one would beable to

Unknown (01:16:59):
I finally got to save, yeah, smart, because you can't,
you can't, you can't leave themwhere you need them, right?

Siobhan (01:17:08):
Yeah, I had someone come into my house once when I
wasn't home, and I, when I camehome, they had just come in.
They were supposed to be meetingme, but I used to leave my door
unlocked, and I come in my houseand they were already in my
house, and they were in mybathroom. And I was like, What
are we doing? Because they livedacross the street, so why would
you come into my house to usethe bathroom? I'm from Colorado.

(01:17:29):
And I was just like, I'd shoothim. I was just like, all right,
like, I'm pretty sure he was inthere looking for my drugs, but
I'm not stupid enough to leaveall my drugs in the bathroom,
right? Like, how did he get intoyour house? My door was
unlocked. My we when I lived, Ilived in New York for almost 10
years, in upstate, and I didn'teven have a key to my house when
I bought it. Yeah, I'm like, youlive in Oakland? It didn't lock

(01:17:50):
your door. No, I lived up it'sjust really small, one stoplight
town in New York for almost 10years, and we did not have a
house key. Yeah, until we wentto sell it, we had to have locks
put in. Wow, yeah, I never had akey to that house, yeah, the
entire time. Yeah?

Unknown (01:18:04):
Like, I lock stuff up all the time now I have cameras
for when I leave. Yeah, becausestuff disappears.

Siobhan (01:18:11):
Yeah, and you do have to be a special kind of asshole
to steal meds from a cancerpatient or from anyone.

Unknown (01:18:17):
Well, yes, especially prescription. Yeah, if you don't
have a prescription, you don'tneed it, right?

Siobhan (01:18:23):
Yeah, yeah, that's and just go buy them. You can buy
them somewhere, yeah, right.
There's enough out there, right?
You don't have to steal themfrom someone that needs them,
right? You don't. How manypatients do you see now? Like,
or, I guess, clients, notpatients.

Unknown (01:18:43):
Um, it varies. Probably the best way to say is 50 to 100
a year, okay, at any given time,right? Because I'm also one of
those people, like, I'm not yourcoach. Forever. If we have six,

(01:19:05):
812, sessions, then we can talkabout it right? But no, I'm here
to teach you how to do it andlive with it right, and then go
do it right. And then we can doa one off here and there when
you really need to talk right?

Siobhan (01:19:17):
Um, that's like a it's almost like a grief counselor.
You see me when you need me, andthen you should be able to go
off and do this right. Like itshould be. It's a specific kind
of treatment for this long andright, I'm gonna coach you
through this, and then you'regonna go off and right.

Unknown (01:19:32):
Like, use me as a coach, Sarah at living before
dying.com. But then find asupport group and make your own
peer support group, because youneed peers.

Siobhan (01:19:46):
Yeah, it has to be lonely to be what like you like
you don't have.

Unknown (01:19:51):
I have some really good, great girlfriends, right?

Siobhan (01:19:56):
That's like, oh, okay,

Unknown (01:19:58):
because a lot of people aren't dying. Yeah. Yeah, like
for my cancer. Have you watchedFirefly lane? I have not. Okay,
so it's this great sitcom, andthey don't tell you that the
woman gets cancer and dies, butit's my exact cancer. Oh, and it
was so triggering. People don'tthink about this. There's no
cancer label warning on a movieor a TV show. So you're sitting

(01:20:21):
there and you're watching it,and then suddenly somebody gets
a cancer diagnosis, and you'retriggered, and you're watching
with friends, and you're like,oh my god, I gotta turn it off.
And then you don't. So then it'seven more terrifying, because
you're kind of working throughit, but you're not working
through it. And like, more showsneed to have a warning for

(01:20:45):
cancer,

Siobhan (01:20:45):
wow, or Yeah, I never thought of

Unknown (01:20:49):
that, yeah, because it's really awful.

Siobhan (01:20:53):
That's gonna be like, gut punching, especially when
they die.

Unknown (01:20:55):
Like, well, it's a comedy, right? Oh, they're just
like, oh, because you quitwatching the show, and all
you're doing is now thinking,Oh, my God, this, this could be
me. This is me. Why am I alive?
And she had died,

Siobhan (01:21:10):
and then there's got to be, like, a level of survivor's
guilt, kind of, I

Unknown (01:21:18):
don't know if I have survivors guilt. I mean,
definitely, but there's got tobe a better term, right? Yeah,
that's why I was, yeah, becauseit's more like I'm lost. I don't
feel guilty. But yeah, why me?
It? Did I get a gift that I nowneed to

Siobhan (01:21:36):
give back? Well, it's kind of what you are doing.

Unknown (01:21:40):
It's so hard not to run away from cancer on this break.
I'm like, part of it was, I'mgoing to do this because I'm
never going to get out of thecancer world, right? And now
it's like, oh, could I get outof this cancer world? Oh, and it
is. It can be triggering. Soit's like, do I need a constant
reminder of where I was andwhere I'm going to be again

(01:22:01):
soon. And that's why you don'tget a lot of cancer coaches with
experience. Because how manysoldiers want to go back to war,
right? I mean, once you're outfor a while that you don't you
want to run so far away fromwar, or it's the

Siobhan (01:22:16):
worst thing that's happened to you, you want to put
it behind you, right? And bydoing what you're doing, it's in
front of you every day, right?
That has to be a level ofexhaustion.

Unknown (01:22:24):
It is a level of exhaustion that is a great way
to put that, yeah, because alsoit's a choice to do it. It needs
to be done because your cancerjourney will be much better with
whether it's an advocate or acoach or a mentor, you need it,
right? And you need somebodywho's going to be straight with

(01:22:48):
you. Yeah, it's like, no, ifyou're not out of the woods yet,
just like, kiss them on theforehead and be like you got
like, the half life of chemo isthey might say it's going to
take six months, if you had ayear of chemo, takes six months
to get out of your system,right? That's not true, yeah?
Because maybe it's out of yoursystem, but it's not

Siobhan (01:23:10):
out of your brain, it's not out of your muscle memory
either, right? Like your bodyreally does keep the score. I
talk about that book a lot, butI think it's a great book, yeah?
And I think it helps you tounderstand the way your body
holds on to things. Oh my gosh.

Unknown (01:23:23):
I have a friend who's a somatic practitioner for massage
and he can watch you move andtell you what your trauma was.

Siobhan (01:23:33):
Ooh, I

Unknown (01:23:33):
want to meet him. He's really great, yeah, and he'll he
was a physical therapist.
Massage therapist works with thegreat guy to talk to, right? But
I like, seriously, tell me, andhe did. Well, you're the guy for
me. I mean, like, I need yourexpertise,

Siobhan (01:23:53):
yeah, absolutely. How many different kind of off brand
treatments have you tried?
Because you love Reiki? Yeah, Iwas gonna say you mentioned the
acupuncture,

Unknown (01:24:05):
North Beach chiropractic, Eric Rubin for
Reiki, like he pulled out yearsago, I was mugged and left for
dead in Oakland. Oh my gosh,like, hit on the back of the
head with a gun. For years,nobody could touch my neck. Wow.
And it was gang initiation. Itwas back in the early and early
knots. I went in for achiropractic appointment, and

(01:24:29):
he's sitting there, and he'slike, You want me to get rid of
this? I'm like, yeah. And hepulled out the energy 15 years
ago, maybe more now, and you cantouch my head.

Siobhan (01:24:41):
Here's a fun tie in Dr lundi stick, I believe is in
that office. I believe she istoo. She's been a guest on the
podcast. Has she Yes, becauseshe and I have worked together.
She's helped me a lot. Yeah,that office, yeah is incredible.
Margarita is yeah, one of themost talented body workers I've
ever had the pleasure of havingwork done by Yeah. And she did
some things with me that I havethe chills now. Yeah, I do

(01:25:03):
drink.

Unknown (01:25:04):
And some people are healers, yeah. So I do
chiropractor, yeah, chiropracticmassage, I guess. Have a
budtender. If that counts, yeah,I believe it counts. I have a
physical therapist. I have apsychologist, a psychiatrist,

(01:25:27):
smart, an oncology neurologypsychiatrist. I have mentors,
chiropractic, a chiropractor,and they all do really good.
Acupuncture is really great forneuropathy. TMJ, if you're

(01:25:49):
grinding your teeth too much orjust clenching your muscles too
much, acupuncture, get rid ofit. Yeah, a dietitian, a
nutritionist,

Siobhan (01:26:01):
and that's all really expensive. Oh my god, it's so
expensive. Yeah, that's what theone thing about, like trying to
heal everything and doing all ofthe things right? Because I've
been to a lot of the some of thesame actually, is how expensive
it is, right? And it's hard toget healthy, right?

Unknown (01:26:18):
And it's hard because there are a lot of groups for
cancer that offer discounted orfree stuff, right? But that's
such a limited number, andtrying to get in in a timely
fashion is hard, right? Yeah,now I do. It's my understanding
that Kaiser now offersacupuncture. Oh, nice. Medicaid
programs offer acupuncture attimes. You get so many, then you

(01:26:41):
pay for it. Mm, hmm. There'scommunity acupuncture project.
So I use the Berkeley becauseit's, it's a sliding scale,

Siobhan (01:26:51):
yeah, that's helpful.
If there's a school too.
Sometimes you can get, you cango and be like, volunteer for
the student hours. Yeah. And ithelps someone practice. It helps
you get treatments for really,really inexpensive well,

Unknown (01:27:05):
and also tell students or people who've just graduated
what your disease is becausethey want to specialize. Oh, and
they might give you a discountbecause they want to be an
expert in cancer or diabetes

Siobhan (01:27:16):
or, yeah, become someone's kind of mentor through
their study, yeah, yeah. Oh,that's a brilliant way to do
that, too. It's really good,yeah, because then you're both
getting helped, right? And whenyou have someone that's kind of
new to it, they're going to domore research to learn about it.
Yeah, they may help you withthings and find things that you
might not have. Yeah, and

Unknown (01:27:35):
like, when you're in chemo, heavy chemo, it's not the
time to change your diet, andreally you're limited by what
stays in your body as to whatyou're going to eat. But it is
not a time to become vegan. Youneed animal protein, right? If
you eat something and you feeldrastically better, keep eating
it. Yeah, I'm like, Oh, I feelbetter when I eat fish, but I'm

(01:27:58):
vegetarian now,

Siobhan (01:28:00):
no, right? Give your body what it's asking for,

Unknown (01:28:03):
and then once you're out of the medicine, go back to
whatever diet it is that youprefer keto. It's great. Keto is
really good for me because Ican't have that much fiber.
Fiber is unbelievablyconstipating. I can't I can't
have it. It's worse than redmeat, wow. And I miss because

(01:28:25):
steak is steak, right? We havebroccoli, cauliflower, beans, so
many different flavors, right? Ican't have them. Oh, I want
them. Yeah, I pay the price whenI eat them.

Siobhan (01:28:35):
But I do yeah. And sometimes it's worth it.

Unknown (01:28:39):
Sometimes it is, yeah, be wary with, you know, sushi
and shellfish. You got to bewary of that,

Siobhan (01:28:46):
yeah, because you have to be careful of where you could
pick up certain parasites,parasites, yeah, because they
can be

Unknown (01:28:54):
and if you already have diarrhea, will you know if you
had food poisoning, oh, and thenthat's a different infection.
And then you got to be worriedabout that. About that, right?
So you don't, you don't want tohurt your body any more than
it's being hurt. Yeah, yeah. Sothat's get a cancer coach. And
there's a lot of people that doit discounted, but you're gonna

(01:29:19):
have to pay for, I mean, it'snot cheap, right, but it will
help you. Yeah, it's

Siobhan (01:29:24):
worth the investment, I would think, right? Because
you're shepherding them throughsomething that's overwhelming,
and you're trying to wrap yourbrain around they're giving you
weeks to months to possiblylive, right? But there is a
chance that if you do it, allright, they could be like you
and have another decade. Yeah,more, looking at more.

Unknown (01:29:41):
I also have people that pay me to help their parents,
because they don't live here. SoI'll take the their parents to
visits, right? And I'll takedetailed notes, and then we'll
relay stuff back to the kids sothey don't have to feel guilty
that they. Off to work, right?

Siobhan (01:30:01):
No, that's a great service, yeah, and it's you
can't when you're when you'rethis ill, you can't go to the
doctors by yourself, huh?
Because you can't absorb all thethings.

Unknown (01:30:10):
And how are you going to get there and get home? And
emotionally, you can't absorbit.
Even your caregiver can't absorbit, right? Because there's words
that just trigger yourimagination, and then off you
go. Yeah, I

Siobhan (01:30:26):
used to ask if I could record my doctor's visit so I
could listen to them, especiallywhen we were talking about,
like, getting ready for asurgery or big test or procedure
or something like that, I'd belike, I'm gonna record this. Is
that cool? Like, I just want tobe able to listen to it again so
I can figure out what I missed,yeah, or what I didn't ask, or
what I didn't think of in themoment. Because now we're
talking about how long I'll bedown, what else I have to go

(01:30:47):
through, like, what's thepretest? What's the pain going
to be like after it or duringit? Exactly? Because nerve
testing is unbelievably painful,right? It's crazy painful,

Unknown (01:30:59):
and you can't come off that pain and drive yourself
home. No, you need time, yeah,maybe you need a drink, and then
you really shouldn't be driving

Siobhan (01:31:09):
home, yeah, because now you're on pain meds and a little
booze, right? Which is notrecommended. We all, not all,
but a lot of people do it. What?

Unknown (01:31:16):
Pain meds and booze?
Yeah, some of the best mixturesin the world. That's why people
die, yeah, but

Siobhan (01:31:24):
yeah, but it's true. I mean, yeah, sometimes I used to
think about a Vicodin. Used tofeel like, just a warm hug,

Unknown (01:31:31):
like Vicodin and a beer, Yep, yeah. Don't do this
at home.

Siobhan (01:31:36):
No, it's not recommended. But I do
understand, like, yeah, youknow, and I do under, like, it's
hard to like, the fact that I'mnot dead from all the drugs that
I was on prescribed, and eventaking under what I was
prescribed, right? Is A Miracle,right? Like, and I'm always
like, yeah, I don't know howthat worked out, but

Unknown (01:31:55):
I'm just waiting for the dementia to set in. Oh,
yeah. Like, and it might not eatthe bacon. Yeah, because bacon
and eggs will keep dementiaaway.

Siobhan (01:32:04):
Yeah, yeah. Red meat is really good for you. High
protein, yeah, yeah.

Unknown (01:32:08):
But fat, your brain needs fat, yeah? And not just
coconut fat, it wants dirty fat.
Give me some dirty fat.

Siobhan (01:32:17):
I love it. Dirty fat.
That's a good t shirt.

Unknown (01:32:19):
It's like bacon, yep, I used

Siobhan (01:32:23):
to have a dog named bacon because I'm, like, who
doesn't love bacon, right? Like,and that will also keep any
vegan person away from me.

Unknown (01:32:31):
And a maple sugar, I want somebody. So I was in this
wine club at the Claremonthotel, okay? And we would,
everybody had to bring twobottles of wine, and we would
share with the bartenders, andwe would share with the kitchen,
nice, not until they were done,right? But they might have sent
out all the bacon that didn'tsell. Why isn't there a bacon
dessert? A bacon sampler? Idon't want chocolate. I want

(01:32:55):
three slices of bacon and somescotch.

Siobhan (01:32:58):
That is a perfect dessert. Yeah, so I have had a
chocolate maple, a brown sugarmaple cupcake that has had bacon
on it, and it was one of thebest things I've ever put in my
mind, yeah? And I should makeone of those, right?

Unknown (01:33:12):
If somebody would make a shortbread cookie with bacon
on top, like a strip,

Siobhan (01:33:19):
amen, yeah, you probably are just gonna inspire
a lot of different desserts,yeah?

Unknown (01:33:23):
But maple, maple bacon, yeah, it is

Siobhan (01:33:27):
one of my favorite foods. I eat a lot of steak.

Unknown (01:33:29):
I do too, yeah, yeah.
And my favorite thing thatbrunch is a bacon sampler as an
appetizer or for dinner, I'lleven order a steak as an
appetizer, like thinly slice itover a bed of arugula or
something. That's the appetizer,and then I'll get a steak for my
dinner.

Siobhan (01:33:47):
Oh, we are so going to dinner. I one time went out for
lunch and dinner with a friend,and I had steaks for both,
right? And then he kept tellingpeople, and I was like, Can you
I? Can you just stop? It feelsunnecessary. You're like, why?
I'm like, Have you never had twosteaks in one day? And he was
like, No, never. And I was like,well, that is your fault. You're
an adult, like you can make thathappen.

Unknown (01:34:07):
How could you not have had meat or steak? Like you'd
have a hamburger for lunch and asteak for dinner, right?

Siobhan (01:34:14):
He was just so enamored by the fact that I ordered
steaks at both meals. And so

Unknown (01:34:18):
many girls don't eat when they go out on dates too,
right? Yeah, it's like, no, I'mgonna eat. And if you're not
gonna eat your food, I might

Siobhan (01:34:25):
eat the rest of your food. Yeah, I love food, so I'm
right, gonna definitely partake.
One of my girlfriends and I, wewent out to lunch and we ordered
like, half the side of a menu.
But we're both in the industryalso, so we love to taste stuff,
right? And it was a Michelinrated restaurant, so we were
like, Let's do it. And we wereordering, and the guy was like,
Do you we were sitting at atable for two, and he's like,

(01:34:47):
You should move over to thistable for four. And then he's
like, do you have someone elsejoining you? And we're like, no,
it's just us, right?

Unknown (01:34:54):
And we're gonna just say, okay, and we want a red and
a white

Siobhan (01:34:57):
wine, yeah? And we had, like, a two hour lunch. And ate
a bunch of it and then took itall back to the guys we were
working with. And right, we werelike, try all this food. I'm
like, you probably got a bunchof customers from us doing that.
Then we have your food at ourbar, like, and everybody's
sampling it.

Unknown (01:35:10):
Oh, my God. If you want information to go around, invite
your bartender or your serverand give them the experience
whatever it is you're selling,yep, they see more people in the
neighborhood you're already in?

Siobhan (01:35:22):
Yeah, yeah. We go to one restaurant, and sometimes we
have to be careful when there'stwo or more of us, because
people will keep sending usdrinks, right? And we'll just
keep eating and drinking, right,right?

Unknown (01:35:33):
Thank God for Uber.
Yes, very much. Thank God forUber. Can we pause this bathroom
all day long?

Siobhan (01:35:40):
Same I was just thinking, we can probably just
wrap it up too, because we'vebeen chatting for about 90
minutes. Yeah, yeah. Well, wecan keep talking if you want to.
I don't know what your scheduleis. My schedule is open. I'm
open now we can go get some foodafter this. Yeah, absolutely,
yeah. I was thinking the samething.

Unknown (01:35:58):
I was gonna think of something. Oh, one thing,
because I did just take abathroom break. I found because
you're so worried about germsand people coming into your
house and you have chemo, I gota scented hand soap so I know
when people didn't wash theirhands, and I would call them out

(01:36:18):
on it. Oh, I'm like, You need togo back and wash your hands, or
you need to leave that and,like, how do you know I'm, like,
because it's cinnamon flavored,yeah, or cinnamon scented.

Siobhan (01:36:29):
So that is a brilliant little hack, yeah, where you
don't have to ask everyone.

Unknown (01:36:34):
No, it's great, too. If you have children, did you wash
your hands? No, oh, I learned itfrom a mom and children. Oh,
like, That's brilliant, becauseI don't need your germs, right?
Because you get so easily sick.

Siobhan (01:36:49):
Yeah, my dad had small cell lung cancer a couple years
ago, and it was during covid. Soat one point, my brother was
like, You should come home. Youknow, things, right? We were
just like, we don't know. And soI was flying home. I'm like,
Well, I can't come home frombeing at the airport, like, I
can't take a flight home andthen be in the house with him,

(01:37:11):
right? Because, like, I was soparanoid. And my mother's like,
you know, just wear your mask,wash your hands, do all the
things. And I'm like, but Istill like, I'm like, don't,
don't have him come to theairport to pick me up, like,
I'll meet him at the house, likeI'm home, I'll shower, I'll, you
know, do all the things to kindof minimize as much as we could.
Yeah? And he was like, I justwant to see you. And I was like,
Yeah, but I don't want to be thething that kills you, right?

(01:37:33):
Like, I can't, couldn't takethat, like, and I had so many
mixed emotions going home to doit. And then I was just like,
Alright, fuck it. Like, if he'sgonna die, anyways, yeah? Like,
I was like, at least I'll havegot to see him.

Unknown (01:37:44):
No, there's one thing I should mention. I was estranged
from my family the whole time.
My oldest brother put onFacebook before it was staged
and granted, I'm just back fromEurope. Pray for me. My sister
has cancer, and put my phonenumber on Facebook. And so I
woke up in the morning. I hadn'ttold my lover yet. He outed you.

(01:38:07):
Oh, yeah. So then people that Idon't know are calling me. I'm
like, Who is this? How did youget my number? And then my
friends are calling from allover the world, right? I'm like,
and so I call him, I'm like, andwe'd been estranged, not as
drastically as we were about tobe with my whole family, but I'm

(01:38:29):
like, take it down. He's like,I'm not. I call my mom. I'm
like, make him take it down. Andshe goes, Well, I can't, Sarah.
I'm like, you won't, and hewon't, and there'll be
consequences for this. And minewas, you guys aren't going to
help me heal. And then when youfirst get diagnosed, you have to
sit down with yourself and withyour partner and be quite honest

(01:38:53):
about it, right? Because ifthey're not going to help you
heal, they're going to make yousick like this is a zero sum
game this and my family justsaid I will contact you again
when I'm done with treatment.

(01:39:15):
Then I was in treatment for 10years, and honestly, I hate to
say it, it's probably the numberone reason I'm still alive. Wow,
I didn't have any negativeemotions. I didn't have to deal
with anything that wasn't mine,right?

Siobhan (01:39:29):
You didn't have the stress of the relationships, of
taking care of their feelings,right?

Unknown (01:39:33):
And it wasn't black and white. It took months, right? I
did write like, if you want tobe in my life, we have to talk
about these issues, right? Andwe have to do it in a way that's
good for both of us. So, youknow, maybe therapy or a pastor,
but if they're not going to helpyou heal, you don't need them in
your life at that moment intime. And if they don't
understand that, maybe you don'tneed them in that point in time

(01:39:56):
ever again in your life, right?
Because, if there's so many.
Topic. They can't put yourhealth first. They don't deserve
you.

Siobhan (01:40:04):
Yeah, it's a hard thing to reckon with, though. Yeah,
it's and that's a difficultsometimes the harder choice is
the better one.

Unknown (01:40:15):
Usually the harder choice is the better Yeah, yeah,
because my dad died during covidAnd then, so I mentioned brain
surgery, right? So I had brainsurgery on a Friday. I had chemo
the next Friday, and when I wasstanding in line, my sister
called and said, Mom's reallysick. She's going to die. You
got to come. And I'm thinking, Ican't it's Friday. I can't fly

(01:40:38):
before Monday, right? So I gotin on Monday, and it was
terrible, but it was like, yougotta wear the mask with them
all the time. Yeah, they'resick. They're not feeling good.
You need to have conversations.
Can't understand you through themask, right? That's it's hard,
yeah. Like cancer is hard on somany levels,

Siobhan (01:41:05):
yeah, because it affects everything and everyone
in your orbit, right?

Unknown (01:41:09):
And your brain's not right, right? And now, like
being off chemo now for fivemonths, my brain is coming back,
and I think this is one of thehardest things. I thought my
brain was pretty good, and thenyou're like, Oh my God, no
wonder I made that decision. AndI made that decision, because I
made so many bad decisions, I'mstill figuring out that I've
made more bad decisions than Iknow about, right?

Siobhan (01:41:32):
Yeah, because you're also in the survival. So
sometimes when you're in thesurvival, you're just getting
through things

Unknown (01:41:38):
right, but you think you're thinking correctly, and
that's one drawback of doingthings alone, is nobody will
tell you that you're not right.
So part of having cameras athome is to is to watch me and
what I do at night. Oh,interesting. Well, because, you
know, you have to go thebathroom. Yeah, I only take
Gabapentin at nighttime, okay?
Because it makes me stupid.
Yeah. And then I do an edible.

(01:42:02):
So gabapentin, an edible. Andthen you're tired, yeah, it's
just like, you get up, you go tothe bathroom, and then you eat
food. You're like, why am I notlosing weight? Put the chocolate
out?

Siobhan (01:42:14):
You're like, who made all that pasta at 3am right?

Unknown (01:42:18):
I'm not that bad yet, but if there's cold pasta in the
fridge, I definitely

Siobhan (01:42:23):
eat it, right? Yeah, that's an interesting thing,
though. I don't know if I wouldhave thought to put cameras up
to track what I'm doing atnight, or to be able to track
just myself and check in. Like,what am I doing with my time
when I'm kind of well, because I

Unknown (01:42:36):
was like, is somebody breaking in? Like, I swear I put
this here, right? And then, no,it was me, yeah.

Siobhan (01:42:42):
And you give yourself that you don't have to keep
questioning it, right?

Unknown (01:42:46):
And you know where stuff is, because you're on
camera and you're the

Siobhan (01:42:51):
only one with the access to it. So what harm does
it do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That'sa brilliant little hack for when
you're doing things like thatbuyers, right?

Unknown (01:42:59):
You got to be careful that when people come into the
house, you got to be like, Ohyes, there are cameras. This is
why, right? But if you Well,when you're in chemo, you're not
really getting it on. You don'thave any of those problems to
worry about chemo. I can'tbelieve, right? And mine just
stayed in house, like, Yeah, itdid not go to the ring system,

(01:43:20):
right? Yes to the Amazon Godsnow, yeah,

Siobhan (01:43:23):
no, that's probably smart, yeah, he's been a closed
circuit system. Yeah, it's

Unknown (01:43:27):
just cancer is hard, and he needs people to be like,
Am I out of my mind with right?
And you need him to be able tosay, Yes, right?

Siobhan (01:43:37):
Well, yeah, cuz doing it on your own and not having
anyone to kind of check you mustbe hard. But sometimes, even
when you're doing it withpeople, if it's not the right
people, they're not going totell you either.

Unknown (01:43:47):
Oh, my God, I have a spreadsheet by my phone because
I made the mistake of callingone friend that's all emotion
for a practical matter. In thatbit me in the butt and just
like, oh, I that was bad advice.
But then I called somebody thatwas really good with advice,
right? With an emotional issue,and then we didn't talk for
months, because if I had knownthat who I was calling, I

(01:44:12):
wouldn't have asked thatquestion, right? Like, there is
no universal person, includingyour spouse. Is not your
universal person, right?

Siobhan (01:44:22):
So you have a list next to your phone of who's good for
what, yeah.

Unknown (01:44:27):
And now, since I no longer have a dial up phone or a
landline, it's in my phone undercontacts, first name, last name,
emotional support, like, right?
It's categorized,

Siobhan (01:44:40):
yeah, so you know you're not going to the wrong
person for what you need. Yeah,it's smart.

Unknown (01:44:45):
Highly, highly recommend it. And there's a lot
of good websites out there,like, manta cares, and it's
basically like a map a metrosystem, like, all right, you
just got diagnosed. This is whatyou're going to expect. This. Is
what you're going to expect.
This is where your medicineshould be, your doctor's
questions, and this is where youare. This is where you were. And

(01:45:05):
you can go back and check, did Ido all these things, right? And
then go forward.

Siobhan (01:45:12):
That's nice, yeah, because it has to be so
overwhelming that then how doyou decide what to do next?
Right?

Unknown (01:45:19):
And, yeah, yeah, because it's so easy to get
lost, right? Well, like, did Imiss a doctor's visit?

Siobhan (01:45:25):
Yeah? Or I didn't even know I needed to see that type
of doctor, and

Unknown (01:45:29):
you have to stay on top of scheduling your own scans in
your next appointments. Thedoctor's office are good at it,
but they're overwhelmed, right?

Siobhan (01:45:37):
And, and if someone at the doctor's office is having a
bad day and misses your name,right? Then they don't call you
for three weeks, and you shouldhave had a scan two weeks ago,
right?

Unknown (01:45:47):
And you're your highest priority, right? You're not the
doctors. Is not yours. You'renot that to them, right? It's a
full time job. It is a full timejob.

Siobhan (01:45:57):
It really is, yeah, and that's in when you were saying
earlier about making sure thatyour caregiver has two days off
a week, Oh, yeah. Like, becauseit's not just your full time
job, it is your caregivers fulltime job too.

Unknown (01:46:10):
Their imagination is your worst friend. Yeah? Because
no matter what, even if you sayit's not that bad, they're gonna
go there, yeah, or the other wayaround. You're telling them it
is that bad, and their mindwon't let them go there, right?

Siobhan (01:46:23):
They're doing the denial, like, you're going to be
fine. We're going to fix this.
Everything will be great. You'llbe healthy again. And you're
like, No, no, no, this is rightat this point, right now.

Unknown (01:46:31):
And then with your caregiver, especially if it is
your spouse and your sexualpartner, you got to have a bunch
of sex, yeah, at the beginning.
And just like, how are we goingto deal with this? And you need
to talk about that before youget brain fog,

Siobhan (01:46:44):
yeah, but like, if

Unknown (01:46:48):
you're going to have an affair, mine, I was like, if you
need to have an affair, A, youbetter learn something so it
benefits me. B, I don't want tosee it, and I don't want an STD
or anything from it, right? AndI'd rather you have a girlfriend
than a one off or hookers,right? Like, I don't you picking

(01:47:11):
up a random stranger in a bar,right? Yeah, but you they have
to get rid of that stress,because that sexual stress, and
men need that more, right? Yep,they get stressed out, and they
want more sex, but then theycan't have it, and then they
want even more sex, and it'sjust like it's a

Siobhan (01:47:25):
vicious cycle, right?
And then they have brain fogfrom all they're thinking about
is not having sex, right?

Unknown (01:47:29):
And they just need that sex to get rid of the stress.
It's not necessarily about

Siobhan (01:47:33):
sex, right? It's about just getting rid of that energy,
right? Or however they get

Unknown (01:47:37):
rid of it. It doesn't have to be an affair or but you
know what? Sometimes they justneed nurturing touch from
another person, so maybe theyget a massage. Yeah? And then
you have to redefine intimacy,like, oh, we'll shower together.
Let's do this instead. Let'sYeah,

Siobhan (01:47:59):
I'll wash your bald head, right?

Unknown (01:48:01):
I'll shave your head.
Yeah. Oh, that's another thing.
Most barbers, if you're inchemo, will give you a hot shave
for free. Oh, or call and askaround, or they'll do it for a
discounted price. Get a hotshave, right? They massage your
head. It's warm. Even as forwomen, get a hot shave, right?

Siobhan (01:48:20):
Yeah, because we know from earlier, you don't want to
pull the hair out.

Unknown (01:48:24):
You do not want to pull the hair out and Find pleasure
where you can and get massages,even if it's just a foot
massage, a reflexology,

Siobhan (01:48:35):
yeah, and I'm sure there's a lot of places that
have discount or packages orschools, again, I come back to
schools, yeah, go find a massageschool, because those people
want to learn, and you can getthem for really inexpensive,
right?

Unknown (01:48:46):
Stay out of hot tubs, yeah, steam rooms, maybe because
the bacteria is really bad.
Check everything with youroncologist first.

Siobhan (01:48:53):
Okay, yeah, I wouldn't think I mean hot tubs. I would
know, because most times theytell you anything, stay out of a
hot tub, right? But the SteamRoom is an interesting

Unknown (01:49:02):
one, also, because bacteria and how are you going
to do with the heat? Yeah, andthe dry sauna, how are you going
to do with the heat? Yeah, youmight pass out, right?
Especially, yeah, because you'reprobably a little dehydrated
bathtub. How? When's the lasttime you washed it? What
chemicals Did you wash thebathtub with? Like, rinse it,
rinse it, rinse it, right? Oh,yeah, I wouldn't shower after

(01:49:24):
you take a bath. Yeah? Likelittle things,

Siobhan (01:49:28):
you just have to go an extra step to help avoid any
infection.

Unknown (01:49:31):
Or, yeah, your nails, you can't get your nails done
because a fungal infection canbe just as bad as your body as a
bacterial infection, wow. Likeyou could get toe fungus and
never go away. Like I have toefungus on my nails because I
lost all my nails and toenails.
Oh, so now, when I take my socksoff every other night, my
toenail comes off, wow. And it'spainful to have your toenail rip

(01:49:55):
off and not the whole part. Itleaves enough nails so it can
have. Come tomorrow night. Oh,god,

Siobhan (01:50:04):
that's like the list of stuff that you deal with is just
as overwhelming as trying tothink of all the like, emotional
stuff that

Unknown (01:50:11):
you're right and then you have to be positive to talk
to people, because if you're toonegative, nobody will talk to
you. Yeah, rightfully so.

Siobhan (01:50:19):
Yeah. I mean, that's true in any part of life, but
especially like you already havethis cloud over you right now.
You're miserable about it, andyou get more isolated, yeah, and
because, unfortunately, whenanything bad happens to you, you
have to take care of thepeople's feelings around you
about it, right? That's why itcan be so exhausting.

Unknown (01:50:36):
Oh, and it's like, why am I responsible for your and
you know what? You finally getto a point where, like, No,
you're you're an adult, right?
Figure it out. Yeah, if we'renot going to be friends, it's
okay. We're not going to befriends,

Siobhan (01:50:47):
it's fine, yeah? Like, if you can't handle this, yeah,
maybe I'll see you when I seeyou.

Unknown (01:50:51):
It hurts, though, when, yeah, like, one friend, I was
asking him for rides, like, Imight need a ride to doctor here
or there. And literally, I couldjust see him pushing himself
away in physically trying to getaway from me, and that was just
hard, because they removedthemselves from you, right? So

(01:51:15):
how do you let him back in? Andwhy should you? Yeah, I mean,
there's probably 100 reasons whyyou should, but there's obvious
when you ask somebody forsomething when you really needed
it in the couldn't because of anemotional reason, right? It's
like, I don't have time forthat.

Siobhan (01:51:35):
Yeah, that's I have a hard time asking people for
things, and the reason is thatright there, right is, because
if they can't meet me there,then I know it's gonna forever
change the way I think aboutthem. And if I really care about
them, then I don't want to,right, ask them for anything,
because you don't want them to Idon't want to ruin it. Yeah, so
I'm like, it's easier to justtake care of it by myself then.

Unknown (01:51:56):
But then, are those people worth having in your
lives? If you already knowthey're not going to be there.
Maybe it's time for them to goaway, yeah? But then maybe
that's what makes them become abetter friend, right?

Siobhan (01:52:07):
Or it's and it's robbing them of the opportunity
to show you that you're wrong,yeah, like that, they just step
up and be like, Oh, I got you,no problem. And it's so then
it's almost like you're notbeing a full friend to them,
because you're not even givingthem the chance to step up.
You're just assuming that theywon't. It's like a mental
gymnastics I go through a lotright where I'm just like, and

(01:52:29):
then I'm like, I just, I'll justforget it. I'll just like, stay
by myself.

Unknown (01:52:33):
Because how many of your friends or family can you
say I love this person becausethey're flawed? Like, I don't
want perfect people in my life.
I don't want to date a man thathasn't lost something and
rebuilt it, yeah, I don't. Idon't want friends that haven't,
that don't have resilience.
Yeah. I mean, it could be adivorce. Could be loss of a

(01:52:55):
parent your job, yeah?

Siobhan (01:52:58):
Something a big toe.
Yeah. I need you to have hadsome kind of adversity for me to
actually really deeply connectwith you. Yeah, because if you
haven't, then you don't actuallyunderstand where I'm coming
from, because I've had so muchadversity, and I am still
smiling and finding my joy. Andlike, looking to other people to
like, how did you get throughit? Like, let's talk about it.
Like it was terrible, right? Andlike, especially in your case,

(01:53:20):
like, you really thought youwere gonna die, but you didn't,
yeah, you know, I have a shirtthat says, but did you die? And
like, because, like, the worstshit that ever happens to you is
the worst shit, but righttomorrow it could be worse, or
it could be, like, it's bad, butit's not terrible.

Unknown (01:53:36):
Dying is easy, rebuilding is hard,

Siobhan (01:53:41):
yeah, and I don't think we talk about that enough as a
society, addicts.

Unknown (01:53:46):
And how many addicts are there? Really? Oh, so many,
75% of people, you know, yeah,honestly, if we're honest about
it, or people that overcamehomelessness, yeah, nobody talks
about it. And why not? That issomething to be proud about,
yeah, overcoming addiction, yep,something to be proud about,

Siobhan (01:54:07):
yeah, but we look at it still with such a stigma and
right, other than it's not likewe've all been there, right?
Yeah, most people have been onsome spectrum of it, right, like
in AA, they'll talk about yourbottom and your rock bottom
doesn't always have to be like,you can have a high rock bottom,
yeah, you don't always have togo from like business to

(01:54:28):
homeless, right? You can go fromlike business to divorce or
something like, yeah, bottom wasjust higher than someone else's,
right? But it doesn't mean itwasn't your bottom right? And
there's like, a stigma. But I'mlike, if you've touched the
bottom at any level, right? Andcome back from it. Like, that's
fucking

Unknown (01:54:42):
huge, right? Or you're in the process of coming back
from right, like, because

Siobhan (01:54:47):
the coming back from it process is hard and right,
lonely, and sometimes it feelslike it's easier to go back into
it, yeah, because that's whereyour comfort level is, right?
And being uncomfortable isuncomfortable, right? And it
sucks. Well, like, I throw a

Unknown (01:54:59):
lot of dinner parties.
Days, and I always have wine anddrinks, but if you come to my
dinner party in your in activerecovery, and you don't tell me,
I'm gonna be so mad at you,right? Because why would I put
you in harm's way? And do youthink that little of me? So
that's just opposite of what wewere talking about. Like, no,
if, like, you would tell me ifyou had a shellfish allergy,

(01:55:21):
like, Hey, I'm not drinkinganymore. Can we not have alcohol
on the table, right? No problem.
Yep. Or respect

Siobhan (01:55:29):
that, or be like, I'm not drinking if someone else is,
I don't mind, but I don't wantto be offered it, right? Like,
offer me coffee or water, right?
But not wine,

Unknown (01:55:37):
yeah, let me know. Have special drink for you at your
place, like we can make itpretty Yep, yeah. You don't have
to drink,

Siobhan (01:55:46):
yeah and, or smoke or do anything yeah and, we still
want you to come sit at ourtable.

Unknown (01:55:53):
So like in my house, I don't necessarily, I won't share
my edibles, because those aremedicine. It is not a
recreational drug, right? I dokeep butt around for people who
smoke, but edibles like No,those are mine. That's your
Yeah, and don't ask anybody fortheir medicine. Can I try this?
Can I try that? No, you can't,

Siobhan (01:56:13):
right? Yeah, cuz you find

Unknown (01:56:15):
something to you, which I never do,

Siobhan (01:56:19):
but like that, if someone did right,

Unknown (01:56:21):
like in my support group, what medicine are you on?
Is it working? Why Right? Or whydidn't it? But you don't ask
them for their drugs, no.

Siobhan (01:56:33):
And the fact that that's even a conversation you
have to have with people, right,is like how kind of fucked up.
The whole society is about allof it, right? Like, Oh well, I'm
gonna ask them if I can takesome of this or that. Like, why
do you think that you shouldhave the right to ask me for
something that's trying to helpsave my life? Right?

Unknown (01:56:52):
You know, what was one thing that speaking of drugs. So
I had a really hard time when mymom died, because, I mean, my
dad had died, so much stuffdidn't get resolved from my
childhood, and my parents taughtus to compete with each other,
and it made for a horriblebecause we're seven years age,
different, like there's no waywe can compete with each other,

(01:57:12):
no, and we have all differenttalents. So I asked, I've been
curious about mushrooms my wholecancer journey, so I've talked
to every oncologist, and belike, Can I do mushrooms on the
meds I'm on, right? And they allstop. Like, this one guy was an
old hippie, this oncologist. I'mlike, I haven't asked you a

(01:57:33):
question in the hallway. I'mlike, it's a quick question. And
he looks at me, he's an oldhippie. I'm like, Can I do
shrooms? And he looked at me,and his whole face lit up and
said, Fuck yeah, everybody inchemo should do shrooms. So am I
neurologist, head of Stanford?
Should I do mushrooms? He goes,we've seen some good things
because they're starting tostudy it, right? And then I

(01:57:53):
mentioned I had thepsychologist, oncology
neurologist. And he goes, wouldyou document it? I'm like, yeah.
So basically, for me, the verylow was at the bottom of a
staircase, right? And I wouldonly do micro dosing, yep. And
it was like, going up one step,and your perspective is changed

(01:58:15):
that little bit. But what is itat sea, for every foot you go
up, you get 1000 feet of extravision, yes, or something like
this. And it's the same withmushrooms. Have they done it?
I've never tripped trips. Okay.
I'm curious about it, but I'mstill hesitant, because if the

(01:58:35):
chemo gave me brain fog, is itgoing to interact and that, and
I'd want to do it with a guide.
And I don't know if I couldtrust in my friends not to see
me tripping and then decide theywant to do it too, right? And
then just abandon me, like forthat, you really, I think you're
especially your first time.

(01:58:58):
Yeah, you need a guide.

Siobhan (01:58:59):
Yeah, I have, I've been my big fan of micro dosing, and
I think it has completely helpedheal some of the neural pathways
in my brain, but also that thenerve pain in my body, and I
have done like, slightly morethan a micro dose. Well, I'll
sit and think about everythinghealing and think about it, and

(01:59:19):
I really think it has helped aton. I have done one big macro
dose with a friend, and it wasvery strange, and a couple times
during it, I was like, why am Ihere with him? We're in the
woods at this house. And thenI'd have to be like, no, he's
safe, like he's a gold star gay.
This is why we're here sittingwith me. Like there was, like,
some ups and downs on it,because I was so afraid of

(01:59:41):
tripping from growing up, andthen they'd be like, Oh, you're
gonna go crazy, right? You'regonna jump out a window. And,
like, if you've had any trauma,it's gonna you'll have a bad
trip, right? And I didn't have abad trip. I had. It was great,
and I learned a lot aboutmyself, and, like, it really
healed a bunch of myself. Andthen. I asked, actually, this
year, did my first Ayahuascaceremonies. I want to try this.

(02:00:02):
I'm so curious. And I was, itwas a two day ceremony. So you
go up in the first night, youhave a ceremony, and then in the
morning, you kind of talk aboutit and share, and then that
night you do another one, andthen the next morning is the
same you share. And then, and itwas, I've never cried so hard in
my entire life. Was it a goodcry? It was such a good cry like

(02:00:23):
it was like all of the tearsthat I've been shoving down into
my gut for the last 20 yearscoming out, but in a way that
didn't feel scary oroverwhelming. It just felt like
releasing it all.

Unknown (02:00:38):
So when you were on your opiates, did you cry with
the back pain in your sometimes,but not a lot? I haven't cried
in 10 years.

Siobhan (02:00:46):
Yeah, it kind of numbed you out so you don't, like, I
could remember being in so muchpain and like, starting to cry
and then just sucking

Unknown (02:00:53):
it all but we can't.
It's not like, even a consciouseffort. Yeah, yeah. I feel
weepy, but I can't cry. Yeah,and you'd never get that
release, yeah. So you

Siobhan (02:01:04):
got it, yeah? I did very much. So in it, I happened
to go on a weekend that was anall women's which would not have
been my first choice, okay,because I just find that to be
too much and too much femaleenergy, yeah, makes me
uncomfortable, and womensometimes have been kind of the
people that have hurt me evenmore than men, yeah, because the
emotional is way more worse thanthe physical. So I was kind of

(02:01:27):
hesitant to do an all women'sweekends, and I but it was like
the only time that it worked.
And then I was really happy thatI did okay, because the energy
was very much. It was differentto not have the male energy
there, right? But it wascathartic. And overwhelming, and
I want to do it again, okay? AndI was, it was a beautifully led
ceremony, like I just it reallyhealed a whole bunch of people.

(02:01:51):
I think there was maybe 15 or 20circle, three different guides.
Okay, yeah. So there was thewoman that was running it, and
then two women, no five guides.
There was a woman that wasrunning the ceremony, and then
there was a woman that washelping two women that were
playing music with her throughthe whole thing. And then they

(02:02:13):
had two sitters, so that sitterswould come over, and anytime,
like they thought they saw youstruggling or you needed
something, they were there tohelp guide you. So if you had to
go into the bathroom and youwere kind of unsteady on your
feet, or you were reallythrowing up, or anything like
that, they would come and sitwith you. Sometimes they would
just one of them came over to meat one point when I just could
almost not breathe from crying,from sobbing, and she just came

(02:02:34):
and held me, and I just cried inher arms for like maybe 15 or 20
minutes, and then I kind of gotmyself together, and I laid back
down on my little spot in mybed, and she went off to help
someone else. So was it worththe

Unknown (02:02:46):
price you paid? The financial cost, but the
emotional cost too?

Siobhan (02:02:53):
Yeah, it was, yeah, I would say it was, yeah,
interesting, yeah. I mean, Ihave found that there's other
places I could go for lessexpensive, and there are
communities here, especially inthe bag, that you can go to find
places there are, I have a bunchof friends that just went to

(02:03:13):
Peru, and so I'm waiting to hearabout that. One of them went for
the first time. One of them wentfor like, the 14th time. Yeah,
he'll guide people through itnow, and so I definitely want to
do that eventually, too, but Iwould definitely do it again,
and I definitely want to do itwhere it's Yeah. I think it is
totally worth it. And I thinkthe healing that it did for me
was, I don't know how I wouldhave gotten that in that

(02:03:37):
timeframe, right? I don't thinktherapy, yeah, yeah, yeah. I
don't think that like, it wouldhave been years of talk therapy
to do something that in aweekend my body and my soul was
able to do by itself.
Fascinating, yeah, I am. I love.
I've done a lot of therapy. I'veread a lot of self help books.

(02:03:59):
I've talked to so many peoplelike, I have been through almost
every kind of physicalpractitioner that you can see.
Yeah. Like, I joke that if I'man expert in anything, it's
10,000 hours on a table, right?
Because of all my stuff and I itfundamentally changed the way I
move through the world.

Unknown (02:04:19):
Now, what about people saying, well, if you want to do
it again, it's addictive, sothen it's not really good.

Siobhan (02:04:26):
I don't think it's that I want to do it again, because I
went in with such apprehensionthat I don't know if I got the
full experience, because I wastrying to control it too much,
right? I was still very muchworried about how I looked,
crying in front of all thoseother people, and no one was
paying attention to me, right?
So I still have some of thatthat goes on like I always am,
like, feeling slightly like I'malways thinking about how I'm

(02:04:47):
being perceived, which is atrauma response, and it's from
things that happen growing upand being in communities where,
like, you have to act like thisto get this right, where
everything was very conditional.
And so. Always slightly thinkingof that as opposed to just being
relaxed and being myself, yeah,and so I know that that was
playing a role in that weekend.
And I think if I could kind ofeven step further away from

(02:05:09):
that, I would get even moreinsight and healing. Yeah,
there's a few times I have toget up and move my body, because
the pain in my body was, I can'tlay here, right? And then it was
like, well, am I allowed to getup, like they want you to stay
on your mat, but like, I need tomove my body, or I need to go
stretch, and can I do that? Oram I taking away from someone
else's experience? Right? Like,I'm such a caregiver that I
wanted to keep helping the womannext to me who was having a hard

(02:05:32):
time, and I keep remindingmyself to, like, not get in her
journey, to stay in mine, right?
So there's, like, that kind ofanxiety about it that I think
this next time I did, itwouldn't be there, right? And
the first time jitters would begone. So what could that
experience be like on thatlevel? So saying I want to do it
one more time isn't saying Iwant to go do it every week,

(02:05:52):
right? I want to go and see itone more time. And what was that
experience? Okay? And then afterthat, if I wanted to do it more,
I think it's not something thatyou kind of run out and do any
Friday night, right? I think youdo need to, like, I prepared for
it. I They gave you dietarysuggestions and I didn't. I
fasted for two days beforebecause I was so afraid of just
shitting my pants, right, right?
It's like, I was, like, it'sfine if I throw up, like, I can

(02:06:15):
throw up almost anywhere, like,Be discreet about it, but like,
shitting my pants, or, like, youknow, being in the bathroom
having GI issues is, like, myworst nightmare. Oh, my God,
could you imagine that tripping?
Right? That's what I mean. Solike, for me, I was like, I'd
rather fast for two days to helpeliminate that issue. Yeah, and
it did help a lot with that.
Yeah. So I think to do it right,and to do it like, what the

(02:06:39):
medicine is meant for. I don'tthink it's like, it's not a
party drug, no, yeah, it's not.
And it helped with some of thelike, I was drinking a little
too much and doing a little toomuch of the fun stuff, and not,
right? You know, being carefulabout, like, what I was doing
and where I was going. And Ithink it helped curb some of

(02:06:59):
that, yeah, just it was a reallyprofound experience that I wish
more people could experience. Iwish the barrier to entry wasn't
so high, yeah. Like, I was verywell aware that I was sitting in
a room with almost exclusivelywealthy white women, right? And
as a white woman who's notwealthy, like, I was like, oh,
like, this is, you know, thisisn't the way I had wanted to

(02:07:23):
experience it. I wanted to do itmore with someone of the
indigenous right culture andrelation. And the woman I went
to has studied with indigenousculture. She has permission, she
has a relationship with a familydown in Peru, and so she is kind
of very connected to it, yeah.
But I was like, it still feels alittle whitewashed for me,
right? And so I was, well, kindof aware of that. So I would

(02:07:45):
have liked to have that kind of,I want to do another experience
where it is more of thetraditional yeah means, right?
But I want that Yeah, but I'mhappy that I got to experience
it, because it's not somethingeveryone can get into or has the
finances for.

Unknown (02:08:00):
Well, one thing I noticed, and I've heard this
from many people, evenmicrodosing shrooms, you get off
sugar, oh yeah, includingalcohol, which is sugar, yeah,

Siobhan (02:08:11):
oh yeah. I would now much rather microdose than
drink, yeah, and I'm abartender, like, we drink for a
living, right? You know? I mean,not all of us, but Right, yeah,
you know? And sometimes I'll beon microdose at work, and then I
don't feel the need to have acocktail, right? You don't even
want it. It's so weird, yeah,and I think that, like the
Ibogaine that they're doingresearch on now, that gets

(02:08:33):
people off of addiction in onetreatment, they

Unknown (02:08:35):
just wait. That's the one that rock and roll stars
have been doing for heroin for

Siobhan (02:08:42):
50 years. Yep, yeah, that you do have to go mostly
other places to do it, right?
Mexico, yeah. And the problemwith the US is that all of these
things, there's so much researchon it, but they still say
there's not enough, right? Andthe other problem is that all of
this gets you off ofpharmaceuticals, yep. And
pharmaceutical companies don'twant that. No, that's why they
the only reason marijuana orweed is not legal federally is

(02:09:04):
because of the pharmaceuticalcompanies, right?

Unknown (02:09:10):
Isn't that crazy? Yeah, because think about, I think
Colorado in the first year.
Don't quote me on the numbers,but it was $41 million in the
first quarter from marijuana,yeah, and that's not touching
pharmaceuticals, right,

Siobhan (02:09:28):
yeah, but the pharmaceuticals company know,
the more people that usecannabis to right, the less
they'll use pharmaceuticals. Andthe problem with cannabis is you
can grow up pretty easy. It's aweed well, also so 150

Unknown (02:09:41):
plus years ago, they found that inside your body is
an indo cannabinoid system thatsupercharges your immune system.

Siobhan (02:09:51):
Yep, yeah, that's why most donors don't get sick a
lot. Yeah, and people don't putthat together, right? Like, if
you know someone that's a hugeStoner. Ask him how many times
they're sick a year, right?

Unknown (02:10:01):
I had a great complimentary medicine. Doctor,
there's another word. It beginswith an I can't think of it.
He's like, I've been in the BayArea forever. Hematologist,
oncologist, he goes and he was80 plus years old. He's like, I
have been smoking pot for 60years, and I don't know anybody

(02:10:24):
who has lung cancer from smokingpot. He did use the caveat, it
wasn't this crazy marijuana wehave now, right?

Siobhan (02:10:32):
Well, and it's been flour instead of, like, the oils
and stuff, right?

Unknown (02:10:35):
That do not do the oils do not do dabs, flow, smoke the
flower, yeah. Well, like dabs.
I've had so many friends losetheir mind on dabs.

Siobhan (02:10:44):
Well, dabs are, dabs are, like, an expert level of
smoking, right? And they do,should not do dabs. No, no, I
used to do a dab and then Iwould write a standard operating
procedure manual and be fine. Sothat's good, but like, like,
that's not if you have any sortof psychosis, yeah, depression,
yeah, bipolar. Do not do them.
You will not come back. Yeah,you have to be aware that that

(02:11:06):
is a possibility, and you don'twant to come back, right? And
sometimes indicas can help setoff depression, yeah, so if
you're already towards adepressive state, or you can
tend towards depression, or evenjust heavy sadness, yeah, if you
smoke a lot of indicas, they canset that off, and they can make
you feel worse, right?

Unknown (02:11:24):
And if you're just taking a drag or an edible every
10 minutes, every 15 minutes,you have a problem, right?

Siobhan (02:11:32):
Yeah, yeah, you should.
My grandma used to always tellme that you should have your
vices and your vices shouldn'thave you, right? And I think
that that's a great way to lookat it, like have your vices, but
be aware of what. Aware of whatthey are, yeah, when you use
them, and how often. Yeah,because otherwise you're an
addict, yep, and you're inactive addiction, yeah, if you
can't control your vice.

Unknown (02:11:51):
And if you think about, oh, I want a glass of wine, do
you have to pour it? Or, do youthink, yeah, that would be nice,
but I don't want

Siobhan (02:11:58):
it today, right? Or maybe later, yeah, like, or,
yeah. Or is it just now youthought of it and you can't do
anything but go

Unknown (02:12:05):
have it, right? It's like that third cup of coffee.
Do you really need it? Or do youjust, do you want to decaf
because you like the flavor,right?

Siobhan (02:12:12):
Yeah, you just need the warmth, or whatever else. God,
wouldn't it be great

Unknown (02:12:15):
if they made really good non alcoholic whiskey so
you could have that flavor andthat burn without getting the
drunk or the damage that liquorcauses on your body?

Siobhan (02:12:25):
Yeah, they're coming out with a lot of new stuff that
people are are enjoying, of thenon alcoholic spirits, yeah, but
not a good whiskey yet, orscotch, I don't Yeah, I was
gonna say I haven't seen anygood whiskeys yet. I've tried a
couple of vodkas that aredecent, right?

Unknown (02:12:40):
And some gin is decent, but you have the flavor, the
flavor, the botanicals, for ginis easy because it's so flowery,
or, yeah, you know it can be.

Siobhan (02:12:48):
And sometimes I'm like, why would you if you're like, to
me, who likes the flavor ofalcohol? Well, some people love
the bird. They do. Yes, yeah,yeah, yeah, Sarah, I could talk
to you all day. I know. How longhave we been talking? Probably
almost two hours. Oh, just overtwo hours. Yeah, yeah. So let's
go get some food, since wetalked about it so much, this is

(02:13:09):
fabulous. And then maybe we'llhave you come back again, give
us updates and talk to us morein time. Give us more pointers
and how to start thriving,right?

Unknown (02:13:18):
And not just cancer, any major long term chronic
illness and pain,

Siobhan (02:13:22):
yeah, well, that's the thing is, I, we were sitting
down, and I was like, you know,how will, how relatable will it
be? Because I, you know, having,you've gotten a diagnosis in a
sentence that not everybodygets, and then you've gotten
this kind of bonus life, youknow, where you they told you
you would be dead in in threeweeks to six weeks to Okay,

(02:13:45):
well, we can extend it a littlemore, and now you're 11 years
out.

Unknown (02:13:49):
So here's the weirdest thing, and maybe this is a good
place and a hook for next time.
Yeah, I realized through this Inever wanted to live or needed
to live, yeah, because you getso used to the moment,

Siobhan (02:14:08):
wow, yeah, that is a great place to pick up another
conversation, because that is a

Unknown (02:14:15):
I never needed to. I never wanted to. My problem is I
didn't want to live. Wow,because you push it out of your
mind, it's not possible. So whywould you want something that's
not possible?

Siobhan (02:14:27):
And then now you have the overwhelming choices of, now
that you're living, what do youdo? Right?

Unknown (02:14:33):
It's like, I never wanted to live the lottery. And
dammit, here I am, like, what amI going to do with these
millions? Because it causes moreproblems than it solves.

Siobhan (02:14:41):
Oh yeah, because if you're gonna be dead in six
months, might as well spend itall rack up a bill like go.

Unknown (02:14:47):
But now, am I gonna have frivolous relationships? Am
I gonna lose meaning in my lifeand my purpose? Because I don't
have to have that intensity,right? But that's another

Siobhan (02:14:59):
give up the intensity.
Okay, I don't want to, right?
Well, that's but as just ahuman, it's kind of we do. Yeah,
all right, well, now we have tohave you back so we can have
that whole conversation.

Unknown (02:15:10):
It was my play Word.

Siobhan (02:15:13):
All right, y'all thank you all for listening. You can
find Sarah canop at livingbefore dying.com. And then I
will link it all into the shownotes too. Okay, thank you.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Yes, thank you all forlistening. Yeah, thank you all
and make sure you go find somejoy today. Yeah, you.

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