September 8, 2022 • 33 mins
My special guest today is E. J. Russell. She as an author of at least 37 published books, including 5 series to date. She writes across several genres: romantic comedy, historical, paranormal mystery, paranormal romantic comedy, and supernatural romantic suspense.
E.J. describes herself as a mother of three and a recovering actor who writes romance in a rainbow of flavors. You can count on high snark, low angst and happy endings. Reality? Eh, not so much. She lives in rural Oregon, enjoys visits from her wonderful adult children, and indulges in good books, red wine, and the occasional hyperbole.
You can contact E.J. and learn more through these connections.
Website: https://ejrussell.com/
FB Profile: https://ejr.pub/ws-fb-profile
FB Group: https://ejr.pub/ws-reality-ops
Instagram: https://ejr.pub/ws-insta
Twitter: https://ejr.pub/ws-twitter
BookBub https://ejr.pub/ws-bookbub
Pinterest https://ejr.pub/ws-pin
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Episode Transcript
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Maggie Lynch (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Dust Jackets
(00:16):
with Authors. My special gueststoday is E. J. Russell. She's an
author of at least 37 publishedbooks, including five series
that I've found to date. Shewrites across several genres:
romantic; comedy; historical;paranormal; mystery; and
supernatural romantic suspense.
At least that's for now. EJdescribes herself as a mother of
(00:41):
three and a recovering actor whowrites romance in a rainbow of
flavors. You can count on highsnark, low angst and happy
endings. Terms of reality, notso much. She lives in rural
Oregon, enjoys visits from herwonderful adult children, and
indulges in good books, red wineand the occasional hyperbole.
(01:02):
Welcome EJ.
E. J. Russell (01:07):
Hi, Maggie, it's great to be here with you.
Maggie Lynch (01:09):
Thank you so much for making time for us. I'd like
to share with our listeners justa fun tidbit about you? Because
it turns out that we went tohigh school together in Southern
California 50 plus years ago.
And we were in drama clubtogether. So you know, we
(01:32):
participated in plays as actors,and did some behind the scenes
stuff like stage managers.
Anyone who's ever been in dramaclub in high school knows that
you tend to do everything. Youknow, it's very few people that
are only actors or only stagemanagers. And then after
graduation, we lost track ofeach other. And, you know, I
(01:55):
think we went to college indifferent parts of the country.
We chose different careers. Weboth moved around quite a bit.
40 years later, we meet at theRomance Writers chapter in
Portland, Oregon. What are theodds? It's just boggles my mind.
(02:16):
And I have to give credit toyou. Because you were the one
who figured out who I was, Ididn't recognize you, or, or
remember really that much aboutmy time.
E. J. Russell (02:28):
And I didn't notice right away, I think I
probably had been a member ofthe chapter for at least two or
three years, because you weregoing by at least two different
last names and not the one thatI knew you by back in high
school. And then I remembersitting in the meeting one time.
It was when you were thetreasurer. I think. I was
looking at you and all of asudden it went ping. Maggie
(02:52):
McVay.
Maggie Lynch (02:54):
Well, that's, that's just amazing. I am not
very good visually in general.
You know, I can remember peopleand lots of stuff about them,
but like, I can't remember theirnames. But it was just really a
fun coincidence. And I don'tknow about you, but I don't know
anyone from high school, outsideof you, who became a romance
(03:17):
writer, do you?
E. J. Russell (03:21):
Not that I know of, but I'm very bad at keeping
in touch with people, as youprobably know, given the fact it
took us 40 years to reconnect.
Right? I wouldn't be surprisedsimply because I think there are
more romance writers out therein the world than people realize
just because it's such a broadgenre, and so many opportunities
(03:43):
for people to tell wonderfulstories.
Maggie Lynch (03:47):
Exactly. Yes. So well, let's just kind of get
into some questions about yourwriting. So, because we met in
drama club, and I believe youcontinued to study theater, and
maybe did some acting after highschool. Can you just tell us a
little bit about that and howthat has affected your writing,
(04:11):
you know, has it given you aprocess or a way that you
approach your books that maybepeople who don't have that
experience might not have?
E. J. Russell (04:21):
Well, after high school, I went, I did study
theater. I got a B.A. in Drama,with an emphasis in acting from
UC Irvine. I first spent atleast a year and a half in
Wyoming before I finished upthere. I worked a bit at South
Coast Rep as an actingapprentice and appeared on stage
(04:42):
there. In fact, because of someof the actors I appeared with
there--if you count stage work,as well as screen work--I'm like
two steps away from JackNicholson.
Maggie Lynch (04:54):
Oh my goodness.
E. J. Russell (04:56):
Because one of the people who was there at the
time with me and in the samesort of boat was Arye Gross, who
appeared in a wonderful moviecalled Big Eden with Louise
Fletcher. Fletcher, of coursewas in One Flew Over the
Cuckoo's Nest with JackNicholson. So, you know,
there's, sometimes it's fun toplay that game. But after I
(05:21):
graduated from there, I moved tothe East Coast, worked as a
secretary in the theater artsdepartment at Emerson College,
before going to graduate schoolat Yale for Theater
Administration. So I have an MFAin Theater Admin.
After I graduated from there, Iwent back to California, and was
(05:43):
the business manager at BerkeleyRep. for several years before I
started working for the companythat provided our software. And
I sort of did a hard left turninto computer work, and ended up
being a computer consultant foryears. But to answer your
question, going back to what itwas, if I can get off my little
(06:07):
train of thought caboose, one ofthe things that I discovered
when I was first starting out asa writer is--and I don't know if
this was true for you, when youwere starting out--but because
you don't know what you don'tknow, you try and learn as much
as you can from other people.
And every time you hear advice,you think that must be the way
to do it. I have to be able todo that, you know, if I want to
(06:30):
be a success. I have to, youknow, have a playlist for every
book. Or I have to go do all mywriting in a coffee shop. Or I
have to do any number of otherthings. But now, I'm, what, 11
years on in this career and I'velearned a lot about myself. One
(06:52):
of which is that I'm an auditorylearner, which I think is why I
recognized you. I recognizedyour voice.
Maggie Lynch (06:59):
Oh, my.
E. J. Russell (06:59):
And so I have to write in silence. But as a
result of that, I hear thecharacters talking in my head as
if they were doing an improv,similar to the kinds of theater
exercises we used to do back inthe day. So that probably may be
one of the the differences in myprocess than other people's
(07:20):
might be who don't have atheatre background is because
all my first drafts are verydialogue heavy, lots of talking
heads. And I have to go back andfill in, you know, where are
they? Are they wearing anyclothes? What's the weather like?
Maggie Lynch (07:40):
I am so glad to hear that from you. Actually.
I'm very much the same. I'm anauditory learner. But I think
the difference is that mine arenot dialogue heavy, because I'm
a very internal processor. Andso when I start writing, my
(08:02):
characters are doing too muchthinking and not much talking.
They also do all of this in awhite room in the middle of
nowhere. So I have to go backand add all those visual things.
So I'm so glad because now Idon't feel alone.
E. J. Russell (08:18):
No, no, I tend to be very reactive. So that's why
I like brainstorming with otherwriters because someone will
say, well, we'll kick offsomething similar to an improv
again. In fact, I remember goingall the way back to our high
school days, I think, when I wasa sophomore, it was the year
(08:39):
that we were in the wonderfuladventures of Don Quixote
together.
Maggie Lynch (08:42):
Oh, yeah.
E. J. Russell (08:43):
At the end of the year, one of the other students,
Gary muse, and I wrote a little,you know, interviews skit. And
that was probably the firstthing I remember realizing that
I was a reactive writer, becausewe would bounce ideas off of one
another, and end up getting, youknow, getting the scripts down
(09:04):
that way.
Maggie Lynch (09:04):
Wow. Oh, cool. So do you ever...One of the things
I do, as a reformed actor, isthat I have learned to act out
my scenes in order for me to getsome of those descriptive
pieces, you know, like bodylanguage and emotion, and things
(09:28):
like that. Do you do any of thatwhile you're writing?
E. J. Russell (09:31):
Well, if anyone were to watch me while I'm
writing, because I fast draft, Ijust sort of blurt it out and
then go back later and revise.
But if anyone were to watch me,they would probably remark that
I made a lot of very peculiarfaces. Because as I'm writing in
one particularcharacter oranother, I'm going, this is what
he is. How is he looking whenhe's saying this kind of thing.
(09:53):
So I do that, you know, to acertain extent, even though I
don't get up and run around theroom.
Maggie Lynch (10:07):
Well, I do get up and run around the room. But
that's usually in the editingphase, not in the drafting
phase. But I realize again thatI'm in a white room. So so let
me kind of follow that up. Sowhen we first reconnected as I
said, it was through romancewriting. But the different was
(10:29):
that I was writing male-femaleromances, and you were writing
male-male romances. So did youenter publishing with the
purpose of writing male-maleromances? Or how did that come
about, exactly? And did you havea plan for that being your
primary niche? Because itcertainly seems that you're
(10:50):
really well known in that arena?
E. J. Russell (10:54):
Well, it's one of those things that my general
obliviousness maybe had a lot todo with that. When I first
joined Rose City RomanceWriters, where we met, the book
that I was working on was, infact, a male-female romance. And
when I was planning that series,which was set in a summer
(11:15):
theater, I expected that some ofthe books would be male-female,
and some would be male-male.
Now, just because that's what myexperience has been working in
theater. My best friend, thelast two years in high school,
was gay. He came out to me in1975, because of David Bowie.
Maggie Lynch (11:33):
Oh, my gosh.
E. J. Russell (11:35):
And my sons, I have two sons, they're both gay.
So it's just like that's myworld. And I've thought that,
you know, any romance I writewould be a mix of those things.
So I expected it to be prettymuch a 50-50 split. And then, so
the first book that I hadaccepted for publication
(11:55):
happened to be a male-male book.
The second book, with the samepublisher was male-female. That
one remains my sole male-femalebook that's published because
after that one I was contractedby a publisher, Riptide
Publishing, that specializes inqueer books. And so, because
that's what they were interestedin, that's what I started to
(12:17):
write. And I found that I reallyenjoyed it. Because as you
probably have the same similarexperience, to some extent,
because we came of age at thesame time, right? At the sort of
dawning of the modern women'smovement. I just, I get so
irritated by sexual politics andgender dynamics. And if you're
(12:40):
writing about two men that atleast levels the playing field.
Maggie Lynch (12:47):
How interesting.
E. J. Russell (12:49):
There's that part and also, because of Gordon,
because of my sons, I wanted, Iwant gay romances to be
mainstream. I want everyone tohave a chance to have funny,
happy, snarky experienceswithout having to worry too much
about judgment, I guess.
Maggie Lynch (13:12):
Oh, that's great.
You know, I've heard of so manypeople that have gone into
writing male-male romances forvery similar reasons. You know,
their children, relatives, theirbest friend, things like that.
And I, it's funny, you wereprobably a lot more aware than I
(13:33):
was in high school. Because Ireally didn't know, to my
knowledge, I didn't know any gaypeople. And I didn't really know
much about the movement untilwell into the 80sm when HIV AIDS
became such a big deal and, andI was living in Utah. So that's
(13:57):
kind of was when my awarenessbecame blown out. But since
then, interestingly enough, youknow, I have several cousins who
are gender fluid. I have one whohas transitioned from male to
female. I have two gay cousins.
(14:20):
And so it's probably always beenlike that. And I just was
totally oblivious.
E. J. Russell (14:28):
Well, I was pretty oblivious back then, too.
Like I said, Gordon didn't comeout to me until 1975, two years
after I graduated, but also itwasn't. It wasn't that long
after Stonewall. I mean, it wasstill not very safe for people
to be open. I had conversationswith Gordon at one point I said,
(14:50):
you know, aren't you afraid ofapproaching people? I mean, how
do you know? He said, I alwaysknow. So apparently gaydar was a
thing, which I did not have anyclue about. But, but my friend
did. Then of course, once I gotfurther into college and into
(15:13):
working in theaterprofessionally I knew. Theatre
was one of the safest places forpeople to be open about their
gender identities and theirsexuality. Though, oh man, so
many friends lost to HIV AIDS,including Gordon.
Maggie Lynch (15:33):
Oh, really? Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. Okay,
well, let's go on. So one of thethings I'm really horrible about
is keeping in touch with even myfriends writers careers, because
I can hardly keep track of myown. But I was really surprised
(15:53):
to see your whole QuestInvestigation series, which is
not romance, I think.
E. J. Russell (15:59):
It really has a romantic subplot. But not a
romance. No.
Maggie Lynch (16:05):
So it seems to be mostly kind of paranormal
mystery. Would that be fair?
E. J. Russell (16:10):
So paranormal cozy-ish mystery is what I call
it.
Maggie Lynch (16:14):
So what kind of drew you to that, you know, away
from what you had been writing?
You know, several series ofmale-male romances?
E. J. Russell (16:24):
Well, I'm a sucker for interconnected worlds
interconnected stories. Andmaybe it's also part of my
theater background and cameosfrom other shows. So I've really
enjoyed writing series that areinterconnected with characters
(16:45):
that sort of branch out. And atthe end of my first series that
I wrote with Riptide--well, no,not the first one, but one of
the early ones--at the end ofthe series, I had planned for
two of the characters to go intobusiness together as private
investigators. And so I hadalways kind of planned that any
(17:06):
books I wrote would be aboutthose two guys. And one of them
would have to be the narrator.
But then I started thinkingabout it well, that their
stories were really pretty muchover, they found their guys,
they, you know, they're happytogether. But there was one
character in a subsequent bookthat some of my readers said
(17:30):
really deserved his own story.
And so as I look back on that,you know, the P.I. organization
and this character, they seemedto go together really well,
because he's the only human inthat world. Everybody else is
supernatural in some way. And hejust has to try and figure it
out what the heck is going on.
(17:54):
Plus, I was getting really tiredof writing sex scenes. So I
wanted to break it up. So that'swhy there are four books in this
first one. I call it the firstcycle, because now people are
saying they want to hear more.
So maybe. So I arranged it sothat the romance arc between
Matt, the narrator, and his loveinterest would span all four
(18:18):
books. So at the end of thatlast book is when they get
there. They finally gettogether. So anything I do in
the future, I don't know whetherit's going to be that same
Narrator or whether I'm going toshift to somebody else, because
there is one character that's abig fan favorite. I know I owe
them his book for a long time,but he's still too young in my
(18:43):
head. He needs to get a littleolder before he's ready.
Maggie Lynch (18:51):
Well, I think it's really exciting and mystery has
really become a big trendinggenre. And I know a number of
Romance Writers that have reallykind of switched away from
romance Into Mystery. For someof them, I mean it's really hard
not to have any romanticsubplots, if you're started as a
(19:12):
romance writer, but I do hearyou on the getting tired of
writing sex scenes. I wasdefinitely in that camp too. And
now I'm writing middle grade, sono. Yes. So the other thing I
noticed is that you haveaudiobooks. And and I, of
(19:35):
course, because I haveaudiobooks, I had to go listen
to your narrators. And both ofthe men that I listened to just
were marvelous. I mean, theirintonation, their ability to
change tone to differentiatetheir characters. And they just
had gorgeous voices that youknow, I could fall asleep to if
(19:56):
I wanted. And so I just wantedto know, what was your process
for finding them and do theywork for anyone else? Just in
case.
E. J. Russell (20:09):
Well, actually, I've worked with three different
narrators. Now, I think allthree of them are, you know, are
very well known in the genre.
One of them, the narrator JoelLeslie, the new narrator for my
Fey Out of Water books, recentlynarrated Winnie the Pooh. And
also the Christmas ChristmasCarol. So he does other things
(20:32):
as well as gay romance. One ofthe ways I discovered narrators
is through one of theconferences I used to go to
regularly, before the pandemickind of shut everything down.
Gay Romance Writers literatureretreat. And I met Joel there in
(20:54):
the fairly early stages of hiscareer. One of the reasons I
wanted him for that particularseries was because it's based on
Celtic mythology, and there werelike, crazy different Celtic
accents. And Joel does does thisreally well. One of the other
(21:14):
character narrators I work withis Greg Boudreau, also known as
Greg Tremblay. He actually wascontracted to the very first
audio book of mine, which wasthrough Riptide. I didn't
contact him directly. But he'svery well known, very popular,
(21:40):
very busy. But one of my authorfriends mentioned him--we were
involved in a multi authorseries. She mentioned that Greg
had room on his calendar. So Icontacted him and was very happy
that he was able to fit me in.
(22:01):
So he's done a lot of that sameseries of books. And the third
one I've worked with his KirtGraves. He did my Christmas
series, a contemporary. he's gotthis wonderful sort of
(22:23):
comforting voice. But he canalso deal with characters. And
one of the characters in thesebooks is very extra, which is
extremely excitable. Kirtreally captured him well. So
I've been very, very lucky towork with these three wonderful
men. And I would recommend thatanybody go out and look for
(22:43):
them, because they do fabulouswork across any number of
genres. You'd never, ever gowrong with any of them.
Maggie Lynch (22:52):
That's great. I've only used female narrators so
far, but I do have a romanticsuspense that really needs a
male narrator and I haven'tgotten around to contracting it.
But when I listened to yourguys, I thought, Okay. I think
one of these guys would reallywork well. Because, that's the
(23:12):
other part with male narrators.
That sometimes they can't dowomen very well. But I heard a
couple of them do female parts.
And I thought, yeah, that reallyworks. I was just so impressed.
I thought, well, she's an actor.
She's been a theater manager.
You know, she probably knewthese people, like from 20 years
ago and could find them easily.
E. J. Russell (23:33):
No, no, I met them through other connections
in my writing genre. And inthose conferences. So very
fortunate in that I think Inever actually met Kirt face to
face. He said he was sitting inback of me at one panel at GRL,
one year. I thought, hmm, Ireally liked the sound of his
(23:54):
voice.
Maggie Lynch (23:55):
Ah, very good. So let's go on to the next
question. I find, for myself andmany authors I talk to, that
they tend to write some of thesame themes in every book. It's
kind of like the thing thatthey're either searching for
themselves, or they're trying tosolve for the world, or
(24:18):
whatever. It really doesn'tmatter the genre, but the themes
keep reappearing. So is thattrue for you? And if so, what
are those themes? And if it'snot, what makes you so special?
E. J. Russell (24:35):
Are we talking themes or tropes?
Maggie Lynch (24:38):
I think of them as themes. For me, it is, you know,
like one of the themes that I'malways writing about is coming
of age and finding identity.
Probably because I've come ofage about five times in my life.
Because it seems that with eachchange in your life that you
have to kind of rethink all ofthat again. So that's like one
(25:01):
of the things that I write aboutall the time. But you can talk
about either themes or tropes,whichever you would like.
E. J. Russell (25:09):
Well, I find that I do lots of fish out of water
things, simply because I havealways felt like an outsider no
matter where I am. So it's like,how do I find a way to fit in?
And so that's what a lot of mycharacters try and do. It's
like, they're, they're put in asituation that's unfamiliar to
(25:30):
them. And they have to figureout how to make their way. So
there's, you know, acceptance.
As well as self identification,I guess, self knowledge. I don't
know that I can specify anyother particular theme. Other
(25:54):
than that, it tends to be fairlybroad in terms of the way that
it's implemented in any book.
There's always some aspect ofthat, I think. Just I don't fit
in here. How do I make thatwork?
Maggie Lynch (26:10):
Yeah, well, I mean, I do think that is a
theme. And a lot of people canidentify with not feeling like
they fit in, you know, evenpeople whose entire life is
fitting in. Usually, they'retrying so hard, because they
have that fear. So I can reallyunderstand that. One of the
(26:32):
things you do, and I'd like tokind of understand this better,
is writing humor. I mean, thatseems to be something really
important to you, and somethingthat I'm really awful at. So I
wonder, is that kind of just theway you think, or do you
purposefully, you know, reallytry to inject humor? Because you
(26:57):
seem to write some really goodsnark without being mean.
E. J. Russell (27:03):
Well, sort of my tagline is romance and mystery,
reality optional. But thesubtitle might be if it's not
fun, why bother? So even backwhen we were still actors, I
much preferred acting incomedies with other people,
(27:26):
than, you know, the angst riddendramatic monologues or whatever.
Because I think it's because Iinternalize sadness too much.
And I don't find cryingcathartic. So I don't want to do
it. I don't want to experienceit. And I don't want to write
(27:46):
about it. So I'm looking, I'malways looking for something
that will help me, you know,buoy me up, you know, make me
lighter. And I'm also married toone of the most dryly witty men
probably in the world. So, oh,we have those sort of
conversations. But yeah, evenwhen I was doing back, working
(28:13):
in accounting, it was alwaysabout the jokes. You know, two
plus two equals five. Yeah,accountants just know how to how
to have fun. Yeah, it's becausehumor is important to me,
because I like it. That's what Isort of gravitate towards. And
(28:33):
hopefully I do well, I don'tknow.
Maggie Lynch (28:35):
Well, I mean, I haven't read a lot of your
books, but what I have, I dothink you do it very well and I
admire that a lot. We aretotally opposite in that way. I
would rather take the crying,angsty, Oh, my life is the pits
part. Because I I don't know ifI identify with it; but I think
(29:00):
I identify with the underlyingemotions a lot. And, all my
books tend to reflect that aswell. I always do issue books
and people having reallydifficult lives. But they do get
justice in the end. That'simportant to work out. So what
are you planning to write movingforward? Are you planning more
(29:23):
romance or more mystery, morefantasy? All of the above?
Something maybe completelydifferent.
E. J. Russell (29:31):
Yes. I just launched a more traditional cozy
mystery series with acollaborator. Our penname is C.
K. Eastland. Our firsttraditional cozy mystery came
out on Monday. As a matter offact, it's the first in the
Crafty Sleuth series. It'scalled Die Cut. And we have
(29:56):
seven books planned in theseries.
Maggie Lynch (29:59):
Wow!,
E. J. Russell (29:59):
It's been just a total hoot working with C,
because she essentially, well,she writes as C. Morgan Kennedy.
And you probably know her fromit. So, originally, we were
(30:19):
having brunch together multipletimes when she was looking for a
different job and was working ona series that she wasn't sure
whether it was a mystery or aromance. I said, I'll take a
look and maybe we can work on ittogether. And so, I read a book
on writing cozy mysteries and Iwas reading about what the
sleuth was like. They are veryactive in a particular sort of
(30:42):
niche community. They have lotsof connections. They have all
these you know, x x X. And Iwent basically that's C. So I
said, You are the sleuth. She isactually the embodiment of the
the main character in thesebooks. I wanted to do it because
(31:03):
she's so much fun to work with.
I also have another book, in mylargest world, coming out next
month, which I need to finish.
I've got a contemporarymale-male romance coming out.
Hopefully, once I get thatrevised and more books in the in
(31:26):
the Crafty Sleuth series, thenpossibly another cycle of Quest
Investigations. So I've got awhole list of things on my
possible to do list for 2022.
And I just have to buckle downand do some of them. Once tax
season is over. Yeah.
Maggie Lynch (31:47):
Oh, are you doing taxes as as a side busines?
E. J. Russell (31:51):
Oh no. Just for myself. Yeah, after being in
denial for them for so long. Andthen you have a week to do them?
You know, it's down to the wire.
I guess.
Maggie Lynch (32:05):
That's, that's usually my approach. Oh, the
15th is coming up! Okay, so whatis the best way for people to
connect with you if they want tolearn more about your books or
about you?
E. J. Russell (32:21):
Well, my website is ejrussell.com. It has a list
of my books, my audiobooks, alsolinks to my social media
presence. I'm kind of anintrovert on the internet, as
well as in real life, so I don'thave a really broad footprint on
social media. Probably the bestplace to connect with me is in
(32:45):
my Facebook reader group, whichis called Reality Optional. It's
pretty lucky because that's thedefinition of me. Also,
Instagram, ej_russell_author.
All those links are on thewebsite. The website is probably
the best place to start.
Maggie Lynch (33:04):
Okay. And do you have a newsletter for people who
want to hear from you regularly?
E. J. Russell (33:09):
I do and the signup is right there on the on
the website, too.
Maggie Lynch (33:13):
Perfect. Well, I really appreciate you taking the
time to do this interview. Andfor all my listeners out there,
you can learn more about E. J.
at her website. And I will putall of that information into the
show notes so you can look rightthere with a link directly to
it. And I hope that you do checkout her books. So thank you for
(33:33):
listening, and I'll see you nexttime with another episode of
Dust Jackets (33:37):
Conversations with Authors.
Hello and welcome to Dust Jackets
(00:16):
with Authors. My special gueststoday is E. J. Russell. She's an
author of at least 37 publishedbooks, including five series
that I've found to date. Shewrites across several genres:
romantic; comedy; historical;paranormal; mystery; and
supernatural romantic suspense.
At least that's for now. EJdescribes herself as a mother of
(00:41):
three and a recovering actor whowrites romance in a rainbow of
flavors. You can count on highsnark, low angst and happy
endings. Terms of reality, notso much. She lives in rural
Oregon, enjoys visits from herwonderful adult children, and
indulges in good books, red wineand the occasional hyperbole.
(01:02):
Welcome EJ.
E. J. Russell (01:07):
Hi, Maggie, it's great to be here with you.
Maggie Lynch (01:09):
Thank you so much for making time for us. I'd like
to share with our listeners justa fun tidbit about you? Because
it turns out that we went tohigh school together in Southern
California 50 plus years ago.
And we were in drama clubtogether. So you know, we
(01:32):
participated in plays as actors,and did some behind the scenes
stuff like stage managers.
Anyone who's ever been in dramaclub in high school knows that
you tend to do everything. Youknow, it's very few people that
are only actors or only stagemanagers. And then after
graduation, we lost track ofeach other. And, you know, I
(01:55):
think we went to college indifferent parts of the country.
We chose different careers. Weboth moved around quite a bit.
40 years later, we meet at theRomance Writers chapter in
Portland, Oregon. What are theodds? It's just boggles my mind.
(02:16):
And I have to give credit toyou. Because you were the one
who figured out who I was, Ididn't recognize you, or, or
remember really that much aboutmy time.
E. J. Russell (02:28):
And I didn't notice right away, I think I
probably had been a member ofthe chapter for at least two or
three years, because you weregoing by at least two different
last names and not the one thatI knew you by back in high
school. And then I remembersitting in the meeting one time.
It was when you were thetreasurer. I think. I was
looking at you and all of asudden it went ping. Maggie
(02:52):
McVay.
Maggie Lynch (02:54):
Well, that's, that's just amazing. I am not
very good visually in general.
You know, I can remember peopleand lots of stuff about them,
but like, I can't remember theirnames. But it was just really a
fun coincidence. And I don'tknow about you, but I don't know
anyone from high school, outsideof you, who became a romance
(03:17):
writer, do you?
E. J. Russell (03:21):
Not that I know of, but I'm very bad at keeping
in touch with people, as youprobably know, given the fact it
took us 40 years to reconnect.
Right? I wouldn't be surprisedsimply because I think there are
more romance writers out therein the world than people realize
just because it's such a broadgenre, and so many opportunities
(03:43):
for people to tell wonderfulstories.
Maggie Lynch (03:47):
Exactly. Yes. So well, let's just kind of get
into some questions about yourwriting. So, because we met in
drama club, and I believe youcontinued to study theater, and
maybe did some acting after highschool. Can you just tell us a
little bit about that and howthat has affected your writing,
(04:11):
you know, has it given you aprocess or a way that you
approach your books that maybepeople who don't have that
experience might not have?
E. J. Russell (04:21):
Well, after high school, I went, I did study
theater. I got a B.A. in Drama,with an emphasis in acting from
UC Irvine. I first spent atleast a year and a half in
Wyoming before I finished upthere. I worked a bit at South
Coast Rep as an actingapprentice and appeared on stage
(04:42):
there. In fact, because of someof the actors I appeared with
there--if you count stage work,as well as screen work--I'm like
two steps away from JackNicholson.
Maggie Lynch (04:54):
Oh my goodness.
E. J. Russell (04:56):
Because one of the people who was there at the
time with me and in the samesort of boat was Arye Gross, who
appeared in a wonderful moviecalled Big Eden with Louise
Fletcher. Fletcher, of coursewas in One Flew Over the
Cuckoo's Nest with JackNicholson. So, you know,
there's, sometimes it's fun toplay that game. But after I
(05:21):
graduated from there, I moved tothe East Coast, worked as a
secretary in the theater artsdepartment at Emerson College,
before going to graduate schoolat Yale for Theater
Administration. So I have an MFAin Theater Admin.
After I graduated from there, Iwent back to California, and was
(05:43):
the business manager at BerkeleyRep. for several years before I
started working for the companythat provided our software. And
I sort of did a hard left turninto computer work, and ended up
being a computer consultant foryears. But to answer your
question, going back to what itwas, if I can get off my little
(06:07):
train of thought caboose, one ofthe things that I discovered
when I was first starting out asa writer is--and I don't know if
this was true for you, when youwere starting out--but because
you don't know what you don'tknow, you try and learn as much
as you can from other people.
And every time you hear advice,you think that must be the way
to do it. I have to be able todo that, you know, if I want to
(06:30):
be a success. I have to, youknow, have a playlist for every
book. Or I have to go do all mywriting in a coffee shop. Or I
have to do any number of otherthings. But now, I'm, what, 11
years on in this career and I'velearned a lot about myself. One
(06:52):
of which is that I'm an auditorylearner, which I think is why I
recognized you. I recognizedyour voice.
Maggie Lynch (06:59):
Oh, my.
E. J. Russell (06:59):
And so I have to write in silence. But as a
result of that, I hear thecharacters talking in my head as
if they were doing an improv,similar to the kinds of theater
exercises we used to do back inthe day. So that probably may be
one of the the differences in myprocess than other people's
(07:20):
might be who don't have atheatre background is because
all my first drafts are verydialogue heavy, lots of talking
heads. And I have to go back andfill in, you know, where are
they? Are they wearing anyclothes? What's the weather like?
Maggie Lynch (07:40):
I am so glad to hear that from you. Actually.
I'm very much the same. I'm anauditory learner. But I think
the difference is that mine arenot dialogue heavy, because I'm
a very internal processor. Andso when I start writing, my
(08:02):
characters are doing too muchthinking and not much talking.
They also do all of this in awhite room in the middle of
nowhere. So I have to go backand add all those visual things.
So I'm so glad because now Idon't feel alone.
E. J. Russell (08:18):
No, no, I tend to be very reactive. So that's why
I like brainstorming with otherwriters because someone will
say, well, we'll kick offsomething similar to an improv
again. In fact, I remember goingall the way back to our high
school days, I think, when I wasa sophomore, it was the year
(08:39):
that we were in the wonderfuladventures of Don Quixote
together.
Maggie Lynch (08:42):
Oh, yeah.
E. J. Russell (08:43):
At the end of the year, one of the other students,
Gary muse, and I wrote a little,you know, interviews skit. And
that was probably the firstthing I remember realizing that
I was a reactive writer, becausewe would bounce ideas off of one
another, and end up getting, youknow, getting the scripts down
(09:04):
that way.
Maggie Lynch (09:04):
Wow. Oh, cool. So do you ever...One of the things
I do, as a reformed actor, isthat I have learned to act out
my scenes in order for me to getsome of those descriptive
pieces, you know, like bodylanguage and emotion, and things
(09:28):
like that. Do you do any of thatwhile you're writing?
E. J. Russell (09:31):
Well, if anyone were to watch me while I'm
writing, because I fast draft, Ijust sort of blurt it out and
then go back later and revise.
But if anyone were to watch me,they would probably remark that
I made a lot of very peculiarfaces. Because as I'm writing in
one particularcharacter oranother, I'm going, this is what
he is. How is he looking whenhe's saying this kind of thing.
(09:53):
So I do that, you know, to acertain extent, even though I
don't get up and run around theroom.
Maggie Lynch (10:07):
Well, I do get up and run around the room. But
that's usually in the editingphase, not in the drafting
phase. But I realize again thatI'm in a white room. So so let
me kind of follow that up. Sowhen we first reconnected as I
said, it was through romancewriting. But the different was
(10:29):
that I was writing male-femaleromances, and you were writing
male-male romances. So did youenter publishing with the
purpose of writing male-maleromances? Or how did that come
about, exactly? And did you havea plan for that being your
primary niche? Because itcertainly seems that you're
(10:50):
really well known in that arena?
E. J. Russell (10:54):
Well, it's one of those things that my general
obliviousness maybe had a lot todo with that. When I first
joined Rose City RomanceWriters, where we met, the book
that I was working on was, infact, a male-female romance. And
when I was planning that series,which was set in a summer
(11:15):
theater, I expected that some ofthe books would be male-female,
and some would be male-male.
Now, just because that's what myexperience has been working in
theater. My best friend, thelast two years in high school,
was gay. He came out to me in1975, because of David Bowie.
Maggie Lynch (11:33):
Oh, my gosh.
E. J. Russell (11:35):
And my sons, I have two sons, they're both gay.
So it's just like that's myworld. And I've thought that,
you know, any romance I writewould be a mix of those things.
So I expected it to be prettymuch a 50-50 split. And then, so
the first book that I hadaccepted for publication
(11:55):
happened to be a male-male book.
The second book, with the samepublisher was male-female. That
one remains my sole male-femalebook that's published because
after that one I was contractedby a publisher, Riptide
Publishing, that specializes inqueer books. And so, because
that's what they were interestedin, that's what I started to
(12:17):
write. And I found that I reallyenjoyed it. Because as you
probably have the same similarexperience, to some extent,
because we came of age at thesame time, right? At the sort of
dawning of the modern women'smovement. I just, I get so
irritated by sexual politics andgender dynamics. And if you're
(12:40):
writing about two men that atleast levels the playing field.
Maggie Lynch (12:47):
How interesting.
E. J. Russell (12:49):
There's that part and also, because of Gordon,
because of my sons, I wanted, Iwant gay romances to be
mainstream. I want everyone tohave a chance to have funny,
happy, snarky experienceswithout having to worry too much
about judgment, I guess.
Maggie Lynch (13:12):
Oh, that's great.
You know, I've heard of so manypeople that have gone into
writing male-male romances forvery similar reasons. You know,
their children, relatives, theirbest friend, things like that.
And I, it's funny, you wereprobably a lot more aware than I
(13:33):
was in high school. Because Ireally didn't know, to my
knowledge, I didn't know any gaypeople. And I didn't really know
much about the movement untilwell into the 80sm when HIV AIDS
became such a big deal and, andI was living in Utah. So that's
(13:57):
kind of was when my awarenessbecame blown out. But since
then, interestingly enough, youknow, I have several cousins who
are gender fluid. I have one whohas transitioned from male to
female. I have two gay cousins.
(14:20):
And so it's probably always beenlike that. And I just was
totally oblivious.
E. J. Russell (14:28):
Well, I was pretty oblivious back then, too.
Like I said, Gordon didn't comeout to me until 1975, two years
after I graduated, but also itwasn't. It wasn't that long
after Stonewall. I mean, it wasstill not very safe for people
to be open. I had conversationswith Gordon at one point I said,
(14:50):
you know, aren't you afraid ofapproaching people? I mean, how
do you know? He said, I alwaysknow. So apparently gaydar was a
thing, which I did not have anyclue about. But, but my friend
did. Then of course, once I gotfurther into college and into
(15:13):
working in theaterprofessionally I knew. Theatre
was one of the safest places forpeople to be open about their
gender identities and theirsexuality. Though, oh man, so
many friends lost to HIV AIDS,including Gordon.
Maggie Lynch (15:33):
Oh, really? Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. Okay,
well, let's go on. So one of thethings I'm really horrible about
is keeping in touch with even myfriends writers careers, because
I can hardly keep track of myown. But I was really surprised
(15:53):
to see your whole QuestInvestigation series, which is
not romance, I think.
E. J. Russell (15:59):
It really has a romantic subplot. But not a
romance. No.
Maggie Lynch (16:05):
So it seems to be mostly kind of paranormal
mystery. Would that be fair?
E. J. Russell (16:10):
So paranormal cozy-ish mystery is what I call
it.
Maggie Lynch (16:14):
So what kind of drew you to that, you know, away
from what you had been writing?
You know, several series ofmale-male romances?
E. J. Russell (16:24):
Well, I'm a sucker for interconnected worlds
interconnected stories. Andmaybe it's also part of my
theater background and cameosfrom other shows. So I've really
enjoyed writing series that areinterconnected with characters
(16:45):
that sort of branch out. And atthe end of my first series that
I wrote with Riptide--well, no,not the first one, but one of
the early ones--at the end ofthe series, I had planned for
two of the characters to go intobusiness together as private
investigators. And so I hadalways kind of planned that any
(17:06):
books I wrote would be aboutthose two guys. And one of them
would have to be the narrator.
But then I started thinkingabout it well, that their
stories were really pretty muchover, they found their guys,
they, you know, they're happytogether. But there was one
character in a subsequent bookthat some of my readers said
(17:30):
really deserved his own story.
And so as I look back on that,you know, the P.I. organization
and this character, they seemedto go together really well,
because he's the only human inthat world. Everybody else is
supernatural in some way. And hejust has to try and figure it
out what the heck is going on.
(17:54):
Plus, I was getting really tiredof writing sex scenes. So I
wanted to break it up. So that'swhy there are four books in this
first one. I call it the firstcycle, because now people are
saying they want to hear more.
So maybe. So I arranged it sothat the romance arc between
Matt, the narrator, and his loveinterest would span all four
(18:18):
books. So at the end of thatlast book is when they get
there. They finally gettogether. So anything I do in
the future, I don't know whetherit's going to be that same
Narrator or whether I'm going toshift to somebody else, because
there is one character that's abig fan favorite. I know I owe
them his book for a long time,but he's still too young in my
(18:43):
head. He needs to get a littleolder before he's ready.
Maggie Lynch (18:51):
Well, I think it's really exciting and mystery has
really become a big trendinggenre. And I know a number of
Romance Writers that have reallykind of switched away from
romance Into Mystery. For someof them, I mean it's really hard
not to have any romanticsubplots, if you're started as a
(19:12):
romance writer, but I do hearyou on the getting tired of
writing sex scenes. I wasdefinitely in that camp too. And
now I'm writing middle grade, sono. Yes. So the other thing I
noticed is that you haveaudiobooks. And and I, of
(19:35):
course, because I haveaudiobooks, I had to go listen
to your narrators. And both ofthe men that I listened to just
were marvelous. I mean, theirintonation, their ability to
change tone to differentiatetheir characters. And they just
had gorgeous voices that youknow, I could fall asleep to if
(19:56):
I wanted. And so I just wantedto know, what was your process
for finding them and do theywork for anyone else? Just in
case.
E. J. Russell (20:09):
Well, actually, I've worked with three different
narrators. Now, I think allthree of them are, you know, are
very well known in the genre.
One of them, the narrator JoelLeslie, the new narrator for my
Fey Out of Water books, recentlynarrated Winnie the Pooh. And
also the Christmas ChristmasCarol. So he does other things
(20:32):
as well as gay romance. One ofthe ways I discovered narrators
is through one of theconferences I used to go to
regularly, before the pandemickind of shut everything down.
Gay Romance Writers literatureretreat. And I met Joel there in
(20:54):
the fairly early stages of hiscareer. One of the reasons I
wanted him for that particularseries was because it's based on
Celtic mythology, and there werelike, crazy different Celtic
accents. And Joel does does thisreally well. One of the other
(21:14):
character narrators I work withis Greg Boudreau, also known as
Greg Tremblay. He actually wascontracted to the very first
audio book of mine, which wasthrough Riptide. I didn't
contact him directly. But he'svery well known, very popular,
(21:40):
very busy. But one of my authorfriends mentioned him--we were
involved in a multi authorseries. She mentioned that Greg
had room on his calendar. So Icontacted him and was very happy
that he was able to fit me in.
(22:01):
So he's done a lot of that sameseries of books. And the third
one I've worked with his KirtGraves. He did my Christmas
series, a contemporary. he's gotthis wonderful sort of
(22:23):
comforting voice. But he canalso deal with characters. And
one of the characters in thesebooks is very extra, which is
extremely excitable. Kirtreally captured him well. So
I've been very, very lucky towork with these three wonderful
men. And I would recommend thatanybody go out and look for
(22:43):
them, because they do fabulouswork across any number of
genres. You'd never, ever gowrong with any of them.
Maggie Lynch (22:52):
That's great. I've only used female narrators so
far, but I do have a romanticsuspense that really needs a
male narrator and I haven'tgotten around to contracting it.
But when I listened to yourguys, I thought, Okay. I think
one of these guys would reallywork well. Because, that's the
(23:12):
other part with male narrators.
That sometimes they can't dowomen very well. But I heard a
couple of them do female parts.
And I thought, yeah, that reallyworks. I was just so impressed.
I thought, well, she's an actor.
She's been a theater manager.
You know, she probably knewthese people, like from 20 years
ago and could find them easily.
E. J. Russell (23:33):
No, no, I met them through other connections
in my writing genre. And inthose conferences. So very
fortunate in that I think Inever actually met Kirt face to
face. He said he was sitting inback of me at one panel at GRL,
one year. I thought, hmm, Ireally liked the sound of his
(23:54):
voice.
Maggie Lynch (23:55):
Ah, very good. So let's go on to the next
question. I find, for myself andmany authors I talk to, that
they tend to write some of thesame themes in every book. It's
kind of like the thing thatthey're either searching for
themselves, or they're trying tosolve for the world, or
(24:18):
whatever. It really doesn'tmatter the genre, but the themes
keep reappearing. So is thattrue for you? And if so, what
are those themes? And if it'snot, what makes you so special?
E. J. Russell (24:35):
Are we talking themes or tropes?
Maggie Lynch (24:38):
I think of them as themes. For me, it is, you know,
like one of the themes that I'malways writing about is coming
of age and finding identity.
Probably because I've come ofage about five times in my life.
Because it seems that with eachchange in your life that you
have to kind of rethink all ofthat again. So that's like one
(25:01):
of the things that I write aboutall the time. But you can talk
about either themes or tropes,whichever you would like.
E. J. Russell (25:09):
Well, I find that I do lots of fish out of water
things, simply because I havealways felt like an outsider no
matter where I am. So it's like,how do I find a way to fit in?
And so that's what a lot of mycharacters try and do. It's
like, they're, they're put in asituation that's unfamiliar to
(25:30):
them. And they have to figureout how to make their way. So
there's, you know, acceptance.
As well as self identification,I guess, self knowledge. I don't
know that I can specify anyother particular theme. Other
(25:54):
than that, it tends to be fairlybroad in terms of the way that
it's implemented in any book.
There's always some aspect ofthat, I think. Just I don't fit
in here. How do I make thatwork?
Maggie Lynch (26:10):
Yeah, well, I mean, I do think that is a
theme. And a lot of people canidentify with not feeling like
they fit in, you know, evenpeople whose entire life is
fitting in. Usually, they'retrying so hard, because they
have that fear. So I can reallyunderstand that. One of the
(26:32):
things you do, and I'd like tokind of understand this better,
is writing humor. I mean, thatseems to be something really
important to you, and somethingthat I'm really awful at. So I
wonder, is that kind of just theway you think, or do you
purposefully, you know, reallytry to inject humor? Because you
(26:57):
seem to write some really goodsnark without being mean.
E. J. Russell (27:03):
Well, sort of my tagline is romance and mystery,
reality optional. But thesubtitle might be if it's not
fun, why bother? So even backwhen we were still actors, I
much preferred acting incomedies with other people,
(27:26):
than, you know, the angst riddendramatic monologues or whatever.
Because I think it's because Iinternalize sadness too much.
And I don't find cryingcathartic. So I don't want to do
it. I don't want to experienceit. And I don't want to write
(27:46):
about it. So I'm looking, I'malways looking for something
that will help me, you know,buoy me up, you know, make me
lighter. And I'm also married toone of the most dryly witty men
probably in the world. So, oh,we have those sort of
conversations. But yeah, evenwhen I was doing back, working
(28:13):
in accounting, it was alwaysabout the jokes. You know, two
plus two equals five. Yeah,accountants just know how to how
to have fun. Yeah, it's becausehumor is important to me,
because I like it. That's what Isort of gravitate towards. And
(28:33):
hopefully I do well, I don'tknow.
Maggie Lynch (28:35):
Well, I mean, I haven't read a lot of your
books, but what I have, I dothink you do it very well and I
admire that a lot. We aretotally opposite in that way. I
would rather take the crying,angsty, Oh, my life is the pits
part. Because I I don't know ifI identify with it; but I think
(29:00):
I identify with the underlyingemotions a lot. And, all my
books tend to reflect that aswell. I always do issue books
and people having reallydifficult lives. But they do get
justice in the end. That'simportant to work out. So what
are you planning to write movingforward? Are you planning more
(29:23):
romance or more mystery, morefantasy? All of the above?
Something maybe completelydifferent.
E. J. Russell (29:31):
Yes. I just launched a more traditional cozy
mystery series with acollaborator. Our penname is C.
K. Eastland. Our firsttraditional cozy mystery came
out on Monday. As a matter offact, it's the first in the
Crafty Sleuth series. It'scalled Die Cut. And we have
(29:56):
seven books planned in theseries.
Maggie Lynch (29:59):
Wow!,
E. J. Russell (29:59):
It's been just a total hoot working with C,
because she essentially, well,she writes as C. Morgan Kennedy.
And you probably know her fromit. So, originally, we were
(30:19):
having brunch together multipletimes when she was looking for a
different job and was working ona series that she wasn't sure
whether it was a mystery or aromance. I said, I'll take a
look and maybe we can work on ittogether. And so, I read a book
on writing cozy mysteries and Iwas reading about what the
sleuth was like. They are veryactive in a particular sort of
(30:42):
niche community. They have lotsof connections. They have all
these you know, x x X. And Iwent basically that's C. So I
said, You are the sleuth. She isactually the embodiment of the
the main character in thesebooks. I wanted to do it because
(31:03):
she's so much fun to work with.
I also have another book, in mylargest world, coming out next
month, which I need to finish.
I've got a contemporarymale-male romance coming out.
Hopefully, once I get thatrevised and more books in the in
(31:26):
the Crafty Sleuth series, thenpossibly another cycle of Quest
Investigations. So I've got awhole list of things on my
possible to do list for 2022.
And I just have to buckle downand do some of them. Once tax
season is over. Yeah.
Maggie Lynch (31:47):
Oh, are you doing taxes as as a side busines?
E. J. Russell (31:51):
Oh no. Just for myself. Yeah, after being in
denial for them for so long. Andthen you have a week to do them?
You know, it's down to the wire.
I guess.
Maggie Lynch (32:05):
That's, that's usually my approach. Oh, the
15th is coming up! Okay, so whatis the best way for people to
connect with you if they want tolearn more about your books or
about you?
E. J. Russell (32:21):
Well, my website is ejrussell.com. It has a list
of my books, my audiobooks, alsolinks to my social media
presence. I'm kind of anintrovert on the internet, as
well as in real life, so I don'thave a really broad footprint on
social media. Probably the bestplace to connect with me is in
(32:45):
my Facebook reader group, whichis called Reality Optional. It's
pretty lucky because that's thedefinition of me. Also,
Instagram, ej_russell_author.
All those links are on thewebsite. The website is probably
the best place to start.
Maggie Lynch (33:04):
Okay. And do you have a newsletter for people who
want to hear from you regularly?
E. J. Russell (33:09):
I do and the signup is right there on the on
the website, too.
Maggie Lynch (33:13):
Perfect. Well, I really appreciate you taking the
time to do this interview. Andfor all my listeners out there,
you can learn more about E. J.
at her website. And I will putall of that information into the
show notes so you can look rightthere with a link directly to
it. And I hope that you do checkout her books. So thank you for
(33:33):
listening, and I'll see you nexttime with another episode of
Dust Jackets (33:37):
Conversations with Authors.
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