July 23, 2025 • 40 mins
"A lifestyle of generosity is us just simply saying, 'I want in on the game, Jesus! Let's do this together!"
— Adrienne Camp
Today's Episode: Listen in as Natalie chats with Adrienne Camp about all the ins and outs of generous living. You'll be inspired by beautiful stories of how Adrienne has experienced the generosity of others. She makes connections about how our generosity is a reflection of our generous God. Because God never rationed what he gave us, asking whether we deserve it, we can give in the same way.
This month's memory verse: “A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.” — Proverbs 11:25
Today's guest: Adrienne Camp, originally from South Africa, relocated to America at nineteen to pursue a career in music. She met her husband, fellow musician Jeremy Camp, and they have been married since 2003. Together, they have two daughters, Bella and Arie, and a son, Egan. In addition to her musical career, Adrienne is the author of three books, including the Bible study As for Me: Life Through the Lens of the Psalms, and is a contributing author to the Bible study The Way of Wisdom: A Study on the Book of Proverbs. She is currently pursuing her Master’s Degree in Theology through Denver Seminary. Adrienne is deeply committed to her family and to spreading God's love worldwide. Her greatest aspiration is to know God intimately and to make Him known to others.
Support Our Show: We love reading your comments! AND they help other people find our show. Please let us know what you think by leaving a review.
Links from today's show:
- Adrienne's Instagram
- Adrienne's Proverbs Bible study: The Way of Wisdom
- On Magic and Miracles, by Marian A. Jacobs.
- Everyday Gospel ,by Paul David Tripp.
- Do Everything in Love Necklace
- Dwell Differently Bible Study membership.
Follow Natalie & Vera at DwellDifferently.com and @dwelldifferenly.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
🎵 🎵
Speaker 00 (00:05):
Hey, welcome back to the Dwell Differently podcast.
I'm your host, Natalie Abbott.
Guys, today we are talkingabout generosity.
We are talking about God'sgenerosity towards us and how we
can be generous with otherpeople.
And yet, just somehow in thiswhole process, how we ourselves
are also refreshed.
And the verse that we have beenmemorizing all month long and
(00:25):
that we are talking about todayis Proverbs 11, 25.
It says, "'A generous personwill prosper,' Whoever refreshes
others will be refreshed.
It's a beautiful verse.
And I'm so excited to haveAdrienne Camp on the show with
me.
And Adrienne, do you go byAddie too?
Addie sometimes, yes.
Okay, I saw that in your emailand I was like, wait a second,
(00:48):
is it Addie or is it Addie or,you know, so Addie.
I love that.
That's a beautiful nickname.
Yes.
Someday your name will maybematch your name or your age,
right?
I know,
Speaker 02 (01:00):
right?
Yeah.
My goal is whatever it's
Speaker 00 (01:02):
called.
Yes.
I
Speaker 02 (01:04):
love
Speaker 00 (01:04):
it.
I love it.
Okay.
So...
I love that you're on with ustoday because you have a Bible
study that is coming out on theentirety of the book of Proverbs
that you've written withactually some of my favorite
people from Jen Wilkin andCourtney Doctor, Ruth Cho, like
all these beautiful womenauthors who I'm just like, I
(01:26):
can't wait to do that Biblestudy.
So I'm just so blessed thatyou're here after having just
written a Bible study about thebook of Proverbs to talk about a
proverb with us.
So thank you so much.
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (01:37):
Honestly, I mean, feeling like I had a little seat
at that table with those womenwas incredible because I was
like, how am I here?
I feel like I need to be somuch from them.
Speaker 00 (01:48):
I know.
I feel exactly the same way.
It's like anytime I'm in a roomwith somebody like that, I'm
just like, okay, can I just sithere and listen to you talk?
Another person that wrote thatstudy with you is Elizabeth
Woodson.
Yes.
She's incredible.
The last time I had her on ourpodcast, I was just like, I
didn't even know like whatquotes to pick out of that
(02:09):
conversation because I was like,there are just too many good
things here.
Like just everything coming outof her mouth was just so wise
and so good.
I know, don't set the box
Speaker 02 (02:17):
too
Speaker 00 (02:18):
high now.
Yeah, we're just normal peoplehere.
Normal, very great normal, Ipromise you.
Yeah, yeah.
So we're just talking aboutnormal life with normal people
right over here.
Exactly, yeah.
But yes, so I would love tohear from you before we get
started in on this proverb andwhat it means and how we can
kind of think about it and applyit to our lives.
(02:39):
Can you tell me a story aboutYeah.
You know,
Speaker 02 (02:51):
I feel like I've been the beneficiary of
generosity in a lot of differentways.
I am going to tell a storyabout financial generosity, but
I think it's really importantfor us to just right off the bat
tell a story about financialgenerosity.
realize that financialresources are not the only way
that we can be generous towardspeople.
(03:12):
And I think sometimes weautomatically assume that we
have to be wealthy in order tobe generous.
And, um, I just think it wouldbe good to put finances in the
category of that.
It's a resource.
It's not all of the resourcesfor how we're generous.
And so I think that's just animportant starting point.
Um, although I am going to tellyou about a time.
(03:32):
So, um, Kind of a long story,but Jeremy and I, so I'm
originally from South Africa.
It was obviously my dream toget married in my home country.
And when Jeremy and I gotmarried, right before, it was
three months before we weresupposed to get married, the
whole plan had been set up forus to get married in South
Africa.
We were going to fly down thereand had everything booked and
(03:54):
planned.
I'm a little...
I'm super artsy.
So I had handmade all of myinvitations and all of that.
Oh, wow.
Speaker 00 (04:03):
This is like back in the
Speaker 02 (04:04):
scrapbooking days, you know, that was a thing.
We didn't have Evite like 25years ago or whatever, but long
story, but we, because of visasituations, three months before
our wedding, we ended up havingto switch, uh, the date of the
wedding, location, everything.
And we ended up having to getmarried in Lafayette, Indiana,
(04:25):
where Jeremy's from and not FortElizabeth, South Africa, which
is my hometown.
And so all of that to saythings were shifting
drastically.
And this is before Jeremy and Ihad financial resources.
But my roommate or housemate atthe time, her name's Kat, and
(04:45):
she offered...
she had just gone through, herdad had passed away and had left
some inheritance for her.
And she offered, so we had tofly.
We paid for my whole family tocome out, but she offered to fly
three of some of my bestfriends out from South Africa.
And I mean, honestly, they werethe only South Africans that I
(05:07):
got to have at the wedding.
I'm still friends with them 20something years later.
But just in those moments, Ifelt so unbelievably seen by the
Lord.
I'm seen by my friends that itwas a hot desire that I hadn't
even expressed to anyone to havesome of my closest friends with
me on my wedding day.
Because it's expensive, youknow?
(05:28):
And then South Africa is stilla third world country.
So flying over here is notcheap by any means.
And it wasn't then either.
And so that was just anincredible day.
I mean, I think about it still.
It just made my wedding dayjust incredibly special and kind
of gave me that sense ofrootedness in my past and who I
(05:49):
am, but also being able to moveforward with my husband and
celebrate with people that meanthe most to me.
So that was incredible.
And I remember in that momentalso thinking, how am I ever
going to repay her?
And I mean, I have seen her afew times since then because our
lives have kind of takendifferent trajectories.
But I think every time I seeher, I'm like, hey, I just have
(06:12):
to tell you, thank you again.
But it's one of those thingsthat I just feel like she had no
idea, I think, what a blessingshe was being to me by willing
to be that generous.
And she wasn't going to getanything out of it other than
just being a good friend.
I
Speaker 00 (06:30):
feel like she had to, though, really feel the joy
from you.
And the gratitude of getting toknow that so much of what she
had done, that she was givingsomething that she had to
somebody who maybe needed that,didn't even know, probably
(06:51):
couldn't even verbalize, like,this is just what we have to do
here.
And what an unexpected,beautiful blessing.
What an awesome way to just...
give you like the best weddingpresent ever.
It
Speaker 02 (07:03):
really, really was.
I mean, yeah.
And, you know, I mean, also tochoose to do that with her dad's
legacy, to give it away wasjust also something really,
really sweet.
Speaker 00 (07:14):
I love that story.
I just, you know, it'sinteresting because as we've
been walking through this verseand talking to people and
thinking about it personally,there are things in my life that
you kind of sometimes forget.
about, that you're just like,wow, that was a really generous
act that somebody just eitheranonymously or very humbly,
(07:35):
quietly gave.
And it just is amazing toconsider how many times in the
course of my life where God hasmet a specific need in a very
personal kind of intimate waythat I'm just like, I didn't
even verbalize that.
And yet, here is this gift.
(07:56):
I'll never forget somebody whenwe were, when my husband and I
were also super poor andnewlyweds, someone gave us a box
of money.
Wow.
And it was, it was a verysignificant, like they had
wrapped it and then inside thebox, they had put an envelope
for every month of the year.
And inside they put $50 andthey said, you know, Don't use
(08:20):
this money for groceries.
Use it for a date, whatever.
Because they knew that we werejust, you know, he was in
seminary and we were so poor.
And I mean, like, I think aboutit, like that was $600, which
in and of itself was a hugeamount of money for us at the
time.
But the intentionality of thegift and the thoughtfulness
(08:41):
behind it of just like seeingus.
And it just, I felt very knownand seen by the Lord of like,
here is this treasure.
And I kept it on my bed, likeon my dresser.
And I just remember every monthopening up that box and feeling
like the Lord sees me and I getto have a date, you know, and
not just a date, which is a walkon the beach or a date, which
(09:03):
is a, you know, you know, acheap date, which we would have,
you know, renting a movie orsomething like that, but like a
real, real date where we get togo out to dinner or whatever.
And just like that, that justcommunicated so much to me, not
just the love from that, thatperson who gave me that gift,
but the love of God for me.
Yeah,
Speaker 02 (09:21):
well, and I just think as well that it's so
important as believers that weinvest in each other.
You know what I mean?
It's that I think just with ourtime, with our friendship,
again, with our resources, thatit's like if we really are
living for a kingdom that's notof this world and living with an
eternal perspective in a senseof like building our treasures
(09:44):
in heaven, then the investmentthat God calls us to do is
loving each other, is beingthere for each other.
Like the investment is people.
It isn't stuff.
It's not career.
It's not success.
It's like the investmentabsolutely is about
relationship.
It's about presence.
I'm going to give another timeas well where some of our
(10:04):
dearest friends, we lived in SanDiego for a season and our kids
are older now.
So when we leave, they can lookafter themselves, which is
crazy.
We've got two adults and, youknow, an almost 14 year old.
But yeah, And they were fine.
We were leaving for a couple ofdays.
I had provided food foreverybody.
Everyone was good to go.
But our friends came over andcooked our kid's steak.
(10:25):
Our friends, he's Brazilian.
Oh, wow.
And literally came and cookedthem the most delicious homemade
steak and made this incrediblemeal for our children and just
sat with them.
I love that.
I mean, you were just like, youguys are literally...
the most incredible.
And again, it was just the giftof presence, the generosity of,
(10:47):
we know your kids are good.
We know you can take care ofthem.
They do, but they literallywere like, no, we're going to
come and sit and hang with yourchildren.
And I mean, it made a massivedifference on our kids' lives
where even for them, they werelike, so many adults just
overlook us as kids or don'ttake us seriously.
But for your friends to comeand be so intentional with us,
(11:10):
literally has changed theirlives.
And I think sometimes when wesee these beautiful displays of
generosity, it really doeschange a part of who we are in
the way that it's so inspiringand go, that's who I want to be
for other people.
That's the way that there's away that I can show God's love
because I know how it made mefeel being the recipient of
(11:32):
that.
And I think that goes back tothe verse again of just saying
like, he who refreshes likethose people are refreshed, but
then we're refreshed as well aswe're participating with the
Lord.
Like there have been times, youknow, Jeremy and I have been
able to be generous in differentways, secretly, like other
people not knowing and almostjust feeling like, oh my gosh,
(11:54):
we're on this little adventurewith the Lord.
And it's like, Jesus, this isso cool.
They have no idea that this ishappening.
And we're like, yes, you know,anyway.
Speaker 00 (12:04):
I love that.
You know, it reminds me of whatJesus says about giving and how
we are to not let our left handknow what our right hand is
doing.
And I think sometimes we readthat in a sense of like, oh,
well, it's like a rule, like alaw, like a keep it quiet.
But it feels more like, itshould feel more like I'm one of
(12:26):
Santa's elves.
And I want them to be surprisedand I want them to experience.
It's like if you've everreceived flowers and you didn't
know where they came from.
Speaker 02 (12:34):
Like
Speaker 00 (12:35):
there's something almost more magical about being
blessed and not ever knowing whodid the blessing, but to be
able to fully attribute it tothe Lord and be like, okay, I
guess it was the Lord.
He wanted me to have theseflowers or whatever the gift is.
I do think that there'ssomething, I mean, definitely it
(12:55):
keeps us from, Pride keeps usfrom, you know, trying to
receive, instead of receiving,you know, the Lord's favor,
we're getting applause from menor whatever.
But I do think that there'ssomething really special and
magical about just this idea ofsecretly giving.
I
Speaker 02 (13:15):
know.
Sometimes with our kids aswell, I love the tradition in
like around Christmas time ofjust going into a restaurant and
then secretly paying forsomebody's meal, you know, I'm
not going to try to make it likewe've done that a ton, but we
have done it a couple of timesand it's just been so sweet to
just like, and here's the thing,God's big enough to connect the
(13:36):
dots for people.
I think sometimes we feel likewe've got to make this thing of
it.
Like if they don't know thatit's coming from a Christian
perspective, then how are theyever going to find, like, we
feel like we have to clarifyeverything.
And listen, scripture talksabout that.
Some sow seeds, some water, butGod is the one that does the
work.
And so I think sometimes wedon't always have to connect or
(13:59):
define every single little bitof the giving.
I think even when it comes togenerosity in itself, sometimes
it might say more about us, Ithink, than it does about some
of those people.
Because I think even we've gota lot of homeless people around
where we live.
And I've really had to check myheart of what I believe about
God's grace and not having likea scarcity mindset in a sense,
(14:24):
because God never rationed whathe gave to us.
He never looked at us and waslike, well, do they deserve it?
And I think sometimes it reallyboils down to how much we
really understand the gift ofGod's grace and his mercy,
because I think sometimes welook at other people and we have
the thought, of I want to giveto them, but then we kind of
(14:47):
look at like, well, but do theydeserve it though?
Or like you see the homelessguy and you're like, well, what
did he do to get there?
You know what I mean?
And it's like, we have allthese sort of default questions
as to why we shouldn't be givingor why we shouldn't be
participating in what God'sdoing.
And I think sometimes it just,it's a little bit like, Lord,
let us have a fullerunderstanding of the gift of
salvation that we never earnedit at all.
(15:10):
There is nothing that we can doto earn salvation, that it is a
free gift of God's grace, thatwe get to receive something that
we did not deserve at all.
And in the same way, we get toparticipate in who God is and
sharing our resources withothers.
And again, we don't have toqualify it.
It's like, you don't alwayshave to be like, okay, I'm only
(15:32):
going to give to them if I canalso share the gospel with them.
Or I just think sometimes weneed to be okay to participate
and allow God to be the one thatconnects the dots.
Speaker 00 (15:45):
I love that.
There was a quote that I cameacross by John Piper, and I'm
going to butcher it.
But he said something to theeffect of, you know, in our
giving, if even half of the timewe're giving something almost
foolishly to somebody who isn'tgoing to appreciate it, who's
going to misuse it, then onlythe other half of the time is
(16:08):
the time when, you know, It's areflection of the gospel or
whatever.
He's like, Jesus knows.
And I think that that was justsuch a convicting idea to me
because I do think sometimeswe're doing these math equations
in our heads of like, is thisfoolish even for me to, if I
give this homeless person $5,are they going to turn around
and buy booze with it?
(16:28):
Or, you know what I mean?
Like, I think we do.
We have these, and we want tobe wise.
Absolutely.
But at the same time, I thinkit's hard not to become hard
hearted.
It is.
And jaded even, you
Speaker 02 (16:41):
know?
Well, and I would venture tosay, if God looked at us and
asked the same question of like,well, if I give them this, are
they going to be wise with it?
If we, if he only gave us giftsor generosity or love or
whatever it is, would we livedup to that?
I think we would be in someserious trouble.
(17:01):
You know what I mean?
And so if we're, if we'reagain, imitating God to others
and, It's not my responsibilityto make sure that the person,
again, and I understand we'reframing this in wisdom,
especially talking about thebook of Proverbs, right?
But I think as well, it's notmy responsibility to make sure
that that person, that's betweenthem and the Lord.
(17:23):
They need to be responsible forwhat they're doing with what
they're stewarding.
But I just feel like if God'scalled us to be generous, which
he does so many times inscripture, I mean, it is...
from really Old Testament, NewTestament, it's all there.
Probably, I mean, it's one ofthe biggest things of like
making provisions for otherpeople, being generous,
(17:44):
practicing hospitality, like allthese different things, you
know, that I think we just, weneed to be held responsible in a
sense and not worry so muchabout what they're doing, but
what are we doing with God's,with the resources that God has
given us, you know?
And again, pointing to the factthat our resources are beyond
just financial.
It's not just about givingmoney.
(18:05):
You know, there's many, manyother things that we can do to
practice generosity.
Speaker 00 (18:13):
Guys, I am so excited to tell you a book that
I personally cannot wait toread.
It's called On Magic andMiracles by Marian A.
Jacobs.
It tackles everything fromNarnia to Harry Potter.
These questions that believershave wondered for years, like
what do we do with magic infiction?
Is it harmless fun or aslippery slope?
And what's the differencebetween a miracle and magic?
(18:34):
Is all magic bad or just some?
Could fantasy books actuallylead to the occult?
And how do we help our kidsthink through all of this?
Guys, if you've ever Thisepisode of Dwell Differently is
brought to you in part byCrossway, publisher of Everyday
(19:13):
God's by Paul David Tripp, oneof my personal favorite authors.
Guys, we know that reading theBible is important, but
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And Everyday Gospel is a greatway to help us with that.
It's a daily devotional thatwalks us through the whole Bible
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(19:33):
And guys, Paul David Tripp isjust so relatable, such a great
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He connects scripture to reallife.
So if you want to get a copy,you can do so wherever books are
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(19:53):
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So that's crossway.orgbackslash everyday gospel
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And if you have troubleremembering that, just go to our
show notes and you can click onthat link.
A hundred percent, a hundredpercent.
And I think that there's,that's such a challenge to think
about, like, how can I beavailable to the Holy Spirit in
(20:16):
those moments to give a hug orto pray for somebody or, you
know, to literally give somebodythe shirt off of my back or,
you know what I mean?
I just think that sometimes wefeel so conflicted, you know,
When we see somebody who's indesperate need and it almost
(20:38):
feels overwhelming to us, likehow can I even help in this
situation?
And so instead of sort ofwrestling with that, I think
sometimes we just feel morecomfortable turning a blind eye,
which is, I'm judging myselfhere.
Same, same.
It's
Speaker 02 (20:58):
comfortable, right?
And I mean, just to add tothat, I was going to say, I
think sometimes, It is hard forus to give when we're feeling
like, wait, I actually want tobe the one that's receiving
generosity.
Like I'm so empty.
My cup is so depleted.
I don't feel like I haveabsolutely anything to give at
(21:18):
all.
But I think that's also wherewe need to remember just that
God's resources are endless andhe's the provider.
In a sense, I have read thisone thing that just said that
like, we're the cup.
God's the, he's the one thatfills, he's the one that
overflows.
We're just the middleman in asense, you know what I mean?
(21:39):
And so we don't have to be theone to provide all of these
things.
And so if we want toparticipate with God in his
generosity, which I think is ahuge element in the work of the
church, you know, that we can goto him and just say, God, I
want to do this, but I don'tfeel like I have much to give,
you know?
And then, I mean, immediatelymy brain goes to five loaves and
(22:02):
two fish.
And there's been many, many,many times in my life that I've
kept to myself of just bringyour loaves and fish and watch
God multiply.
I don't have enough to feedeverybody.
I don't have what it takes.
Sometimes I'm so exhausted tobe the ultimate mom to my kids
or ultimate wife or friend orwhatever it is.
But I'm just like, okay, butGod's the multiplier.
(22:24):
And so I'll bring him what Ihave, even if it's just scraps.
And even honestly, like alljokes aside, talking about the
girls that wrote this Proverbsstudy, I felt like the little
boy with the five loaves andfish.
I'm like, why am I on thistable?
And then just going, but God, Ilove the book of Proverbs.
I love the pursuit of wisdom.
I'm passionate about family andrelationship, which was the
(22:46):
part that I wrote about.
And so here I am, I'm going tobring you my scraps.
And God, you be the multiplierbecause you're the one that is,
you know, he's the beginning.
He's the end.
He's the one that holds it alltogether.
And I think the lifestyle ofgenerosity is us just simply
saying, I want in on the game,Jesus.
Let's do this together.
And
Speaker 00 (23:06):
isn't it so true that when we're at our emptiest
and we see the Lord use usanyway, that He is the one that
we can glorify?
There's no...
There's no preconceived notionof like somehow I've got
something to bring to the tablehere.
Exactly.
Like the wool is totally pulledoff of our eyes.
(23:27):
Like we know that we're...
We know too much.
It's not from me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think that's so truethough that when we are in that
moment of just like, do I evenhave...
It's funny because justyesterday I had a friend that I
happened to run into and shesaid that her air conditioning
was out.
And...
(23:48):
And she was like, what are youdoing today?
And I had all this stuff to dofor work.
And I was at a coffee shop likeworking.
And I just felt this convictionof like, I need to invite her
and her two little kids who werewith her to my pool.
Like, I just need to do thatthis afternoon and to not work.
And so I did.
I did.
I was like, hey, why don't youcome over to my pool later today
(24:10):
and we'll just swim.
And I just remember her walkingout the door and just feeling
this weight of like, what asilly person I am.
that I somehow would have notdone that because I'm doing work
for God's kingdom.
Like my job is working forGod's kingdom.
And yet here is God's kingdom.
(24:30):
Here is his work.
Here is the pleasure and thejoy and the me being refreshed.
Like literally she walked outof the door and I was like, that
was so good.
What was it in me that waslike, you don't have time for
that.
You know, like God will give methe time for that.
He'll give me, he gives us.
Again, he's the one.
who generously, like in thisequation, I think sometimes we
(24:51):
think about it, like I'm workingwith my own limited resources
and therefore I don't haveenough.
Yes.
But if we have God in ourequation, then we have infinite
resources.
And so whatever it is that wegive away, we still have
infinite resources.
Absolutely.
Like we cannot ever outspendhis account, you know?
Speaker 02 (25:10):
No, not at all.
I mean, and I think that's a...
I think that's a real questionfor us to ask ourselves.
You know what I mean?
Of just really, what is mymindset of how much I have to
give?
Like, am I actually onlylooking at my own capacity?
Right.
You know what I mean?
And then even just thinkingthrough, I love what you said
(25:32):
about like, really the work ofthe Lord is people.
You know, it's like, I mean,even right now, it's like the
reason why we're recording thethings that we're doing is
because we want people to beencouraged.
And so sometimes in thebusyness, I think we make the
busyness a priority because wefeel like we've got to get all
of these things done.
But at the end of the day,God's heart is for people to be
(25:54):
making the connections about howmuch He loves us and how much
we're supposed to love othersand Him, obviously, in return.
And I think the lifestyle ofgenerosity is fully aware of the
fact that what He has isendless, even when we feel like
we're at our end.
Speaker 00 (26:14):
Yeah, I think that's so good.
Adrienne, would you talk to ourlistener who maybe is in that
space right now?
What would you say to somebodywho's like, this is all fine and
good, but actually, I'veexperienced so much loss.
What do I have left?
Have you ever felt that wayyourself?
(26:37):
And have you ever...
been refreshed by God and byhis people in those kind of
desert seasons, I think that wesometimes find ourselves in.
Speaker 02 (26:46):
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
I mean, I think first andforemost, it's okay.
I don't want like as much aswe're promoting generosity and
promoting not having thisscarcity mindset and relying on
God's resources.
I think everybody needs to behonest with the fact that
sometimes in a sense, we do needto just ourselves sit at the
(27:11):
Lord's feet and to be filled upby Him.
I think sometimes in the churchworld, we do over-glorify doing
work, the work of the Lord, andthose things are all important.
But I think if our hearts areso depleted, then what do we
(27:31):
think we're giving out to peopleanyway?
Because again, they don't needus.
They don't need us.
So if we're just busy givingthem these scraps of who we are,
I think we're really missingthe point.
And that is that we're to givefrom our own enjoyment of who
God is first and foremost.
And so if you find yourself,which I have many, many, many,
(27:54):
many times, I mean, the realityis, is life is hard.
It is so hard.
We all get just thrown crazysituations and crazy heartaches
and things that we have to gothrough tragedies.
I mean, there's so many thingsthat people are facing.
I think even just toacknowledge the political
turmoil that so many of us are,it just feels such a heavy
(28:15):
weight that I think it is soimportant that we learn to
literally just be with God, thatthat is first and foremost,
where the heart of generositystarts is learning to receive
from him the what we need firstand foremost.
And it's not, it is not selfishbecause again, the point isn't
that we're the ones giving toeverybody.
(28:36):
The point is that we'relearning to enjoy God first and
sitting at his feet first.
And so for those who feelempty, I would say be gracious,
be kind to yourself, um, learnto be okay to sit at the Lord's
feet and soak them up before youstart trying to give other
people, um, something that youdon't have yourself.
(28:56):
And if you don't even know howto start, I think it's so
important for us to create alanguage of honesty.
I think the book of Proverbs isa continual invitation to
learning a life of wisdom.
And part of that learning isthat we have to verbalize
wanting it.
(29:16):
And in order to want it, we'vegot to realize that we need it,
which is acknowledging we don'thave it.
And so I think that that's avery important place to start is
going, I don't have it and Iwant it.
And God says in his scripturesthat wisdom cries loud in the
streets.
It's everywhere.
It's there for us to learn.
And it isn't, I mean, I thinkone thing that we've been really
(29:39):
trying to address as we'vewritten the proverb study, all
of us, is that these aren'tnecessarily promises, but these
are principles.
These are our rhythms and waysto live your life.
And so it's not like you do,this one thing that it's not
like one plus one equals two andyou're just going to get the
scenario every single time.
I mean, I think anyone who'slived any amount of life knows
(30:01):
life doesn't work that way.
But it's learning to add thecontinual hunger and desire for
wisdom into our life.
And so no matter where you are,be honest about your lack, be
honest about your need, youknow, that we need God's wisdom.
And I love James so much whereit says, that God gives
(30:22):
liberally for those who ask.
He gives it without findingfault.
And so he doesn't look and go,well, like we were talking
earlier on, like their lives alittle, I don't know.
I heard what she said when shestubbed her toe the other day.
Like she definitely doesn'tdeserve it.
He doesn't treat us like that.
He doesn't look at us, but he'slike, you want some of this?
(30:42):
As a loving father, I'm goingto give it generously to you.
And then we get to glean fromscripture and we get to glean
from the Holy Spirit's And Ithink just soak up all of what
it is that God has to offer usno matter what season we find
ourselves in, whether it's aseason of plenty or overflowing
or whether it is a season ofjust being so exhausted that we
(31:06):
get to, I mean, we get to dependon the Lord in every season.
Speaker 00 (31:10):
I appreciate what you said about honesty because I
think that sometimes we thinkabout our lives and we feel like
we have to sort of project animage of what we think that a
Christian is supposed to looklike, right?
A Christian looks like somebodywho's generous and who
(31:32):
refreshes others.
And therefore I need to dothose things, right?
And I don't think that that isthe heartbeat of the gospel.
It's not the heartbeat of Godfor us.
And I love what you said aboutthese being principles.
And it's like, The idea is thatwhen things are going well in
the ideal world, you know, thatwhen we are generous, we too
(31:56):
prosper.
When we refresh others, we arealso refreshed.
And yet we see in the otherwisdom books, like in
Ecclesiastes or in Job, whenthings don't go that way, right?
We see when the wicked personprospers or we see Job, for
instance, who is a righteousperson who has all of these
trials that he goes through.
(32:17):
So I appreciate the way thatyou said that about it being
just a principle.
So this isn't a promise that wecan always rely on, that
anytime that I feel like I wantto be prosperous, all I need to
do is be generous, right?
Yeah, totally.
It doesn't work that way.
The world doesn't work thatway.
Yeah, I just think that that'sa great way of helping us
(32:40):
consider, because this is aproverb, we need to be sure that
we read it as a proverb and notas a promise from Jesus, like
this, that when you do this, youknow, I think sometimes we
think about, um, verses likethis in this transactional way,
because that's kind of how theworld works.
You know, like if I work, I getpaid a salary.
(33:00):
Yeah.
So, you know, I think sometimeswe come to God that way.
We think, well, if I'mgenerous, then you owe me,
Speaker 02 (33:09):
you know, I think even in generosity, sometimes
getting our eyes off ourselves,um, and just thinking about
other people and puttingourselves in a different
perspective maybe, or that Ithink that there's something
about seasons of darkness thatit helps lift our eyes a little
bit when we are outward focused.
(33:29):
But I love what you're sayingas well.
It really is about themotivation of the heart.
I think you could have oneperson that's generous and kind
of bitter about it or expectingsomething in return.
And then another person isgenerous but is really joyful in
it and not expecting anythingin return.
And maybe from an outsideperspective, it looks the same
(33:51):
way, but the heart motive isreally different.
Yeah,
Speaker 00 (33:55):
yeah.
That reminds me of the verseabout the Lord loving a cheerful
giver and that we should givewhat we've intended in our
hearts to give, right?
And that brings the Lord joy.
So one last question for you,Adrienne, as we're thinking
about this verse and how we canlive this out.
So if you were going to say onething that you could encourage
(34:20):
us to, as we're memorizing thisverse and we're thinking about
generosity, we're thinking aboutrefreshing others and being
refreshed and where all of thesethings come from, if you were
going to say what's oneactionable thing that maybe
would encourage us to be moregenerous?
Or maybe if we're in that spacewhere we're even resistant to
(34:42):
receiving or telling somebodythat we are in need, maybe an
action for each person.
If you're in a season ofabundance, what would you say to
that person?
Or if you're in a season of adesert, what would you say to
that person?
Speaker 02 (34:59):
I think I might actually say the same thing to
both seasons.
I think our starting place isfor us to sit and dwell about
the generosity of Jesus.
I just, I think that will keepour heart motives in check.
We will walk with a massiveamount of humility.
So even if we are perhapssomebody, perhaps God's gifted
(35:21):
you financially and you give toa lot of causes, but there may
be a little air of arrogance,even privately, you know, Or you
may be in ministry and a lot ofpeople depend on you.
And so you've kind of createdthis like, well, I'm the do
person.
I give to everybody else and Ido all of these things.
And I'm the person thatprovides these people's needs.
(35:41):
And what would the community dowithout me?
It's like thinking thosethings.
And then if you feel like theperson that's like, well, I
don't even know that I haveanything to give.
I think when we sit and wethink about the generosity of
Jesus, and I mean, like I wouldjust challenge your listeners
that, For reals, like go sitdown and have a quiet time and
(36:01):
start writing down the ways thatJesus has been generous to you.
Starting with salvation,starting with how we deserve
absolutely nothing and he gaveus eternal life.
Like what is eternal life?
Talk about like the gift of theHoly Spirit.
Who is the Holy Spirit?
How does he comfort us?
Those are all generous gifts.
How God has given us thecommunity within the church.
(36:23):
He's created a church familyfor us that we're supposed to
bear one another's needs.
We're supposed to build oneanother up.
And all of these are acts ofgenerosity.
I think it will overwhelm ourhearts to walking in humility,
but then also realizing again.
I don't know.
I just think when you've beenso blessed by something and
(36:44):
someone, it immediately makesyou want to give it to somebody
else.
And then even as we're talkingabout it earlier on, we're not
going to look with judgmentaleyes of like, I don't know, I
don't think they deservekindness.
They've been blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, whatever it is.
That would start to really justreframe.
And I'm even, as I'm sayingthis, I'm like, this is
something for myself to learn topractice.
For real.
(37:04):
These are the wisdom principlesthat we've got to add to our
lives.
You know, scripture talks aboutadd this and add that.
And that is wisdom.
It's learning to add thosethings.
And so I just think, meditatingon the generosity and the
kindness of God is our startingpoint.
Speaker 00 (37:25):
I love that because I do think you're right.
It simultaneously just elevatesour understanding of what we've
been given.
And yet it also humbles us inour recognition of like, who am
I to think that somehow I'm I'mthe person who's giving so much
when it's the Lord who has givenme all that I even have.
With that focusing
Speaker 02 (37:47):
on the Lord and humility, one of the biggest
keys, it's this unsecret secretto the book of Proverbs, is that
fear of the Lord and being inawe of Him, which is a position
of humility, is what unlockswisdom in our lives.
And so if you want more wisdomin your life, the position is
humility.
(38:07):
And I think gratitude puts usin that position.
And so I think it's almost justthat sort of beautiful,
all-encompassing position
Speaker 00 (38:19):
for us.
Yeah, I love that.
This was so good.
I wish that we had more time totalk about this.
I feel like I had a millionother questions that we didn't
get to.
But it just was really helpfulto consider, especially...
this proverb in that biggercontext, which I think you
(38:41):
really helped establish for us.
So thank you for joining metoday.
And for those of you who arelistening, if you want to get
Adrienne's new Bible study withall of those awesome ladies, I
will have a link in our shownotes and also have a link to
all things Adrienne so you canfollow her as well and get to
listen to her beautiful accent,which I've just been sitting
(39:02):
here like, I love how you talk.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
All right.
Thanks, Adrienne.
Thank you so much.
Guys, I'm jumping out of myseat to tell you about our new
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Speaker 00 (00:05):
Hey, welcome back to the Dwell Differently podcast.
I'm your host, Natalie Abbott.
Guys, today we are talkingabout generosity.
We are talking about God'sgenerosity towards us and how we
can be generous with otherpeople.
And yet, just somehow in thiswhole process, how we ourselves
are also refreshed.
And the verse that we have beenmemorizing all month long and
(00:25):
that we are talking about todayis Proverbs 11, 25.
It says, "'A generous personwill prosper,' Whoever refreshes
others will be refreshed.
It's a beautiful verse.
And I'm so excited to haveAdrienne Camp on the show with
me.
And Adrienne, do you go byAddie too?
Addie sometimes, yes.
Okay, I saw that in your emailand I was like, wait a second,
(00:48):
is it Addie or is it Addie or,you know, so Addie.
I love that.
That's a beautiful nickname.
Yes.
Someday your name will maybematch your name or your age,
right?
I know,
Speaker 02 (01:00):
right?
Yeah.
My goal is whatever it's
Speaker 00 (01:02):
called.
Yes.
I
Speaker 02 (01:04):
love
Speaker 00 (01:04):
it.
I love it.
Okay.
So...
I love that you're on with ustoday because you have a Bible
study that is coming out on theentirety of the book of Proverbs
that you've written withactually some of my favorite
people from Jen Wilkin andCourtney Doctor, Ruth Cho, like
all these beautiful womenauthors who I'm just like, I
(01:26):
can't wait to do that Biblestudy.
So I'm just so blessed thatyou're here after having just
written a Bible study about thebook of Proverbs to talk about a
proverb with us.
So thank you so much.
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (01:37):
Honestly, I mean, feeling like I had a little seat
at that table with those womenwas incredible because I was
like, how am I here?
I feel like I need to be somuch from them.
Speaker 00 (01:48):
I know.
I feel exactly the same way.
It's like anytime I'm in a roomwith somebody like that, I'm
just like, okay, can I just sithere and listen to you talk?
Another person that wrote thatstudy with you is Elizabeth
Woodson.
Yes.
She's incredible.
The last time I had her on ourpodcast, I was just like, I
didn't even know like whatquotes to pick out of that
(02:09):
conversation because I was like,there are just too many good
things here.
Like just everything coming outof her mouth was just so wise
and so good.
I know, don't set the box
Speaker 02 (02:17):
too
Speaker 00 (02:18):
high now.
Yeah, we're just normal peoplehere.
Normal, very great normal, Ipromise you.
Yeah, yeah.
So we're just talking aboutnormal life with normal people
right over here.
Exactly, yeah.
But yes, so I would love tohear from you before we get
started in on this proverb andwhat it means and how we can
kind of think about it and applyit to our lives.
(02:39):
Can you tell me a story aboutYeah.
You know,
Speaker 02 (02:51):
I feel like I've been the beneficiary of
generosity in a lot of differentways.
I am going to tell a storyabout financial generosity, but
I think it's really importantfor us to just right off the bat
tell a story about financialgenerosity.
realize that financialresources are not the only way
that we can be generous towardspeople.
(03:12):
And I think sometimes weautomatically assume that we
have to be wealthy in order tobe generous.
And, um, I just think it wouldbe good to put finances in the
category of that.
It's a resource.
It's not all of the resourcesfor how we're generous.
And so I think that's just animportant starting point.
Um, although I am going to tellyou about a time.
(03:32):
So, um, Kind of a long story,but Jeremy and I, so I'm
originally from South Africa.
It was obviously my dream toget married in my home country.
And when Jeremy and I gotmarried, right before, it was
three months before we weresupposed to get married, the
whole plan had been set up forus to get married in South
Africa.
We were going to fly down thereand had everything booked and
(03:54):
planned.
I'm a little...
I'm super artsy.
So I had handmade all of myinvitations and all of that.
Oh, wow.
Speaker 00 (04:03):
This is like back in the
Speaker 02 (04:04):
scrapbooking days, you know, that was a thing.
We didn't have Evite like 25years ago or whatever, but long
story, but we, because of visasituations, three months before
our wedding, we ended up havingto switch, uh, the date of the
wedding, location, everything.
And we ended up having to getmarried in Lafayette, Indiana,
(04:25):
where Jeremy's from and not FortElizabeth, South Africa, which
is my hometown.
And so all of that to saythings were shifting
drastically.
And this is before Jeremy and Ihad financial resources.
But my roommate or housemate atthe time, her name's Kat, and
(04:45):
she offered...
she had just gone through, herdad had passed away and had left
some inheritance for her.
And she offered, so we had tofly.
We paid for my whole family tocome out, but she offered to fly
three of some of my bestfriends out from South Africa.
And I mean, honestly, they werethe only South Africans that I
(05:07):
got to have at the wedding.
I'm still friends with them 20something years later.
But just in those moments, Ifelt so unbelievably seen by the
Lord.
I'm seen by my friends that itwas a hot desire that I hadn't
even expressed to anyone to havesome of my closest friends with
me on my wedding day.
Because it's expensive, youknow?
(05:28):
And then South Africa is stilla third world country.
So flying over here is notcheap by any means.
And it wasn't then either.
And so that was just anincredible day.
I mean, I think about it still.
It just made my wedding dayjust incredibly special and kind
of gave me that sense ofrootedness in my past and who I
(05:49):
am, but also being able to moveforward with my husband and
celebrate with people that meanthe most to me.
So that was incredible.
And I remember in that momentalso thinking, how am I ever
going to repay her?
And I mean, I have seen her afew times since then because our
lives have kind of takendifferent trajectories.
But I think every time I seeher, I'm like, hey, I just have
(06:12):
to tell you, thank you again.
But it's one of those thingsthat I just feel like she had no
idea, I think, what a blessingshe was being to me by willing
to be that generous.
And she wasn't going to getanything out of it other than
just being a good friend.
I
Speaker 00 (06:30):
feel like she had to, though, really feel the joy
from you.
And the gratitude of getting toknow that so much of what she
had done, that she was givingsomething that she had to
somebody who maybe needed that,didn't even know, probably
(06:51):
couldn't even verbalize, like,this is just what we have to do
here.
And what an unexpected,beautiful blessing.
What an awesome way to just...
give you like the best weddingpresent ever.
It
Speaker 02 (07:03):
really, really was.
I mean, yeah.
And, you know, I mean, also tochoose to do that with her dad's
legacy, to give it away wasjust also something really,
really sweet.
Speaker 00 (07:14):
I love that story.
I just, you know, it'sinteresting because as we've
been walking through this verseand talking to people and
thinking about it personally,there are things in my life that
you kind of sometimes forget.
about, that you're just like,wow, that was a really generous
act that somebody just eitheranonymously or very humbly,
(07:35):
quietly gave.
And it just is amazing toconsider how many times in the
course of my life where God hasmet a specific need in a very
personal kind of intimate waythat I'm just like, I didn't
even verbalize that.
And yet, here is this gift.
(07:56):
I'll never forget somebody whenwe were, when my husband and I
were also super poor andnewlyweds, someone gave us a box
of money.
Wow.
And it was, it was a verysignificant, like they had
wrapped it and then inside thebox, they had put an envelope
for every month of the year.
And inside they put $50 andthey said, you know, Don't use
(08:20):
this money for groceries.
Use it for a date, whatever.
Because they knew that we werejust, you know, he was in
seminary and we were so poor.
And I mean, like, I think aboutit, like that was $600, which
in and of itself was a hugeamount of money for us at the
time.
But the intentionality of thegift and the thoughtfulness
(08:41):
behind it of just like seeingus.
And it just, I felt very knownand seen by the Lord of like,
here is this treasure.
And I kept it on my bed, likeon my dresser.
And I just remember every monthopening up that box and feeling
like the Lord sees me and I getto have a date, you know, and
not just a date, which is a walkon the beach or a date, which
(09:03):
is a, you know, you know, acheap date, which we would have,
you know, renting a movie orsomething like that, but like a
real, real date where we get togo out to dinner or whatever.
And just like that, that justcommunicated so much to me, not
just the love from that, thatperson who gave me that gift,
but the love of God for me.
Yeah,
Speaker 02 (09:21):
well, and I just think as well that it's so
important as believers that weinvest in each other.
You know what I mean?
It's that I think just with ourtime, with our friendship,
again, with our resources, thatit's like if we really are
living for a kingdom that's notof this world and living with an
eternal perspective in a senseof like building our treasures
(09:44):
in heaven, then the investmentthat God calls us to do is
loving each other, is beingthere for each other.
Like the investment is people.
It isn't stuff.
It's not career.
It's not success.
It's like the investmentabsolutely is about
relationship.
It's about presence.
I'm going to give another timeas well where some of our
(10:04):
dearest friends, we lived in SanDiego for a season and our kids
are older now.
So when we leave, they can lookafter themselves, which is
crazy.
We've got two adults and, youknow, an almost 14 year old.
But yeah, And they were fine.
We were leaving for a couple ofdays.
I had provided food foreverybody.
Everyone was good to go.
But our friends came over andcooked our kid's steak.
(10:25):
Our friends, he's Brazilian.
Oh, wow.
And literally came and cookedthem the most delicious homemade
steak and made this incrediblemeal for our children and just
sat with them.
I love that.
I mean, you were just like, youguys are literally...
the most incredible.
And again, it was just the giftof presence, the generosity of,
(10:47):
we know your kids are good.
We know you can take care ofthem.
They do, but they literallywere like, no, we're going to
come and sit and hang with yourchildren.
And I mean, it made a massivedifference on our kids' lives
where even for them, they werelike, so many adults just
overlook us as kids or don'ttake us seriously.
But for your friends to comeand be so intentional with us,
(11:10):
literally has changed theirlives.
And I think sometimes when wesee these beautiful displays of
generosity, it really doeschange a part of who we are in
the way that it's so inspiringand go, that's who I want to be
for other people.
That's the way that there's away that I can show God's love
because I know how it made mefeel being the recipient of
(11:32):
that.
And I think that goes back tothe verse again of just saying
like, he who refreshes likethose people are refreshed, but
then we're refreshed as well aswe're participating with the
Lord.
Like there have been times, youknow, Jeremy and I have been
able to be generous in differentways, secretly, like other
people not knowing and almostjust feeling like, oh my gosh,
(11:54):
we're on this little adventurewith the Lord.
And it's like, Jesus, this isso cool.
They have no idea that this ishappening.
And we're like, yes, you know,anyway.
Speaker 00 (12:04):
I love that.
You know, it reminds me of whatJesus says about giving and how
we are to not let our left handknow what our right hand is
doing.
And I think sometimes we readthat in a sense of like, oh,
well, it's like a rule, like alaw, like a keep it quiet.
But it feels more like, itshould feel more like I'm one of
(12:26):
Santa's elves.
And I want them to be surprisedand I want them to experience.
It's like if you've everreceived flowers and you didn't
know where they came from.
Speaker 02 (12:34):
Like
Speaker 00 (12:35):
there's something almost more magical about being
blessed and not ever knowing whodid the blessing, but to be
able to fully attribute it tothe Lord and be like, okay, I
guess it was the Lord.
He wanted me to have theseflowers or whatever the gift is.
I do think that there'ssomething, I mean, definitely it
(12:55):
keeps us from, Pride keeps usfrom, you know, trying to
receive, instead of receiving,you know, the Lord's favor,
we're getting applause from menor whatever.
But I do think that there'ssomething really special and
magical about just this idea ofsecretly giving.
I
Speaker 02 (13:15):
know.
Sometimes with our kids aswell, I love the tradition in
like around Christmas time ofjust going into a restaurant and
then secretly paying forsomebody's meal, you know, I'm
not going to try to make it likewe've done that a ton, but we
have done it a couple of timesand it's just been so sweet to
just like, and here's the thing,God's big enough to connect the
(13:36):
dots for people.
I think sometimes we feel likewe've got to make this thing of
it.
Like if they don't know thatit's coming from a Christian
perspective, then how are theyever going to find, like, we
feel like we have to clarifyeverything.
And listen, scripture talksabout that.
Some sow seeds, some water, butGod is the one that does the
work.
And so I think sometimes wedon't always have to connect or
(13:59):
define every single little bitof the giving.
I think even when it comes togenerosity in itself, sometimes
it might say more about us, Ithink, than it does about some
of those people.
Because I think even we've gota lot of homeless people around
where we live.
And I've really had to check myheart of what I believe about
God's grace and not having likea scarcity mindset in a sense,
(14:24):
because God never rationed whathe gave to us.
He never looked at us and waslike, well, do they deserve it?
And I think sometimes it reallyboils down to how much we
really understand the gift ofGod's grace and his mercy,
because I think sometimes welook at other people and we have
the thought, of I want to giveto them, but then we kind of
(14:47):
look at like, well, but do theydeserve it though?
Or like you see the homelessguy and you're like, well, what
did he do to get there?
You know what I mean?
And it's like, we have allthese sort of default questions
as to why we shouldn't be givingor why we shouldn't be
participating in what God'sdoing.
And I think sometimes it just,it's a little bit like, Lord,
let us have a fullerunderstanding of the gift of
salvation that we never earnedit at all.
(15:10):
There is nothing that we can doto earn salvation, that it is a
free gift of God's grace, thatwe get to receive something that
we did not deserve at all.
And in the same way, we get toparticipate in who God is and
sharing our resources withothers.
And again, we don't have toqualify it.
It's like, you don't alwayshave to be like, okay, I'm only
(15:32):
going to give to them if I canalso share the gospel with them.
Or I just think sometimes weneed to be okay to participate
and allow God to be the one thatconnects the dots.
Speaker 00 (15:45):
I love that.
There was a quote that I cameacross by John Piper, and I'm
going to butcher it.
But he said something to theeffect of, you know, in our
giving, if even half of the timewe're giving something almost
foolishly to somebody who isn'tgoing to appreciate it, who's
going to misuse it, then onlythe other half of the time is
(16:08):
the time when, you know, It's areflection of the gospel or
whatever.
He's like, Jesus knows.
And I think that that was justsuch a convicting idea to me
because I do think sometimeswe're doing these math equations
in our heads of like, is thisfoolish even for me to, if I
give this homeless person $5,are they going to turn around
and buy booze with it?
(16:28):
Or, you know what I mean?
Like, I think we do.
We have these, and we want tobe wise.
Absolutely.
But at the same time, I thinkit's hard not to become hard
hearted.
It is.
And jaded even, you
Speaker 02 (16:41):
know?
Well, and I would venture tosay, if God looked at us and
asked the same question of like,well, if I give them this, are
they going to be wise with it?
If we, if he only gave us giftsor generosity or love or
whatever it is, would we livedup to that?
I think we would be in someserious trouble.
(17:01):
You know what I mean?
And so if we're, if we'reagain, imitating God to others
and, It's not my responsibilityto make sure that the person,
again, and I understand we'reframing this in wisdom,
especially talking about thebook of Proverbs, right?
But I think as well, it's notmy responsibility to make sure
that that person, that's betweenthem and the Lord.
(17:23):
They need to be responsible forwhat they're doing with what
they're stewarding.
But I just feel like if God'scalled us to be generous, which
he does so many times inscripture, I mean, it is...
from really Old Testament, NewTestament, it's all there.
Probably, I mean, it's one ofthe biggest things of like
making provisions for otherpeople, being generous,
(17:44):
practicing hospitality, like allthese different things, you
know, that I think we just, weneed to be held responsible in a
sense and not worry so muchabout what they're doing, but
what are we doing with God's,with the resources that God has
given us, you know?
And again, pointing to the factthat our resources are beyond
just financial.
It's not just about givingmoney.
(18:05):
You know, there's many, manyother things that we can do to
practice generosity.
Speaker 00 (18:13):
Guys, I am so excited to tell you a book that
I personally cannot wait toread.
It's called On Magic andMiracles by Marian A.
Jacobs.
It tackles everything fromNarnia to Harry Potter.
These questions that believershave wondered for years, like
what do we do with magic infiction?
Is it harmless fun or aslippery slope?
And what's the differencebetween a miracle and magic?
(18:34):
Is all magic bad or just some?
Could fantasy books actuallylead to the occult?
And how do we help our kidsthink through all of this?
Guys, if you've ever Thisepisode of Dwell Differently is
brought to you in part byCrossway, publisher of Everyday
(19:13):
God's by Paul David Tripp, oneof my personal favorite authors.
Guys, we know that reading theBible is important, but
sometimes it feels more like achore than like joy.
And Everyday Gospel is a greatway to help us with that.
It's a daily devotional thatwalks us through the whole Bible
in 365 short, practicalreflections.
(19:33):
And guys, Paul David Tripp isjust so relatable, such a great
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He connects scripture to reallife.
So if you want to get a copy,you can do so wherever books are
sold or you can If you want tofollow the link in our show
notes at crossway.org backslasheveryday gospel devotional, you
can get 30% off if you sign upfor a free Crossway Plus
(19:53):
account.
So that's crossway.orgbackslash everyday gospel
devotional.
And if you have troubleremembering that, just go to our
show notes and you can click onthat link.
A hundred percent, a hundredpercent.
And I think that there's,that's such a challenge to think
about, like, how can I beavailable to the Holy Spirit in
(20:16):
those moments to give a hug orto pray for somebody or, you
know, to literally give somebodythe shirt off of my back or,
you know what I mean?
I just think that sometimes wefeel so conflicted, you know,
When we see somebody who's indesperate need and it almost
(20:38):
feels overwhelming to us, likehow can I even help in this
situation?
And so instead of sort ofwrestling with that, I think
sometimes we just feel morecomfortable turning a blind eye,
which is, I'm judging myselfhere.
Same, same.
It's
Speaker 02 (20:58):
comfortable, right?
And I mean, just to add tothat, I was going to say, I
think sometimes, It is hard forus to give when we're feeling
like, wait, I actually want tobe the one that's receiving
generosity.
Like I'm so empty.
My cup is so depleted.
I don't feel like I haveabsolutely anything to give at
(21:18):
all.
But I think that's also wherewe need to remember just that
God's resources are endless andhe's the provider.
In a sense, I have read thisone thing that just said that
like, we're the cup.
God's the, he's the one thatfills, he's the one that
overflows.
We're just the middleman in asense, you know what I mean?
(21:39):
And so we don't have to be theone to provide all of these
things.
And so if we want toparticipate with God in his
generosity, which I think is ahuge element in the work of the
church, you know, that we can goto him and just say, God, I
want to do this, but I don'tfeel like I have much to give,
you know?
And then, I mean, immediatelymy brain goes to five loaves and
(22:02):
two fish.
And there's been many, many,many times in my life that I've
kept to myself of just bringyour loaves and fish and watch
God multiply.
I don't have enough to feedeverybody.
I don't have what it takes.
Sometimes I'm so exhausted tobe the ultimate mom to my kids
or ultimate wife or friend orwhatever it is.
But I'm just like, okay, butGod's the multiplier.
(22:24):
And so I'll bring him what Ihave, even if it's just scraps.
And even honestly, like alljokes aside, talking about the
girls that wrote this Proverbsstudy, I felt like the little
boy with the five loaves andfish.
I'm like, why am I on thistable?
And then just going, but God, Ilove the book of Proverbs.
I love the pursuit of wisdom.
I'm passionate about family andrelationship, which was the
(22:46):
part that I wrote about.
And so here I am, I'm going tobring you my scraps.
And God, you be the multiplierbecause you're the one that is,
you know, he's the beginning.
He's the end.
He's the one that holds it alltogether.
And I think the lifestyle ofgenerosity is us just simply
saying, I want in on the game,Jesus.
Let's do this together.
And
Speaker 00 (23:06):
isn't it so true that when we're at our emptiest
and we see the Lord use usanyway, that He is the one that
we can glorify?
There's no...
There's no preconceived notionof like somehow I've got
something to bring to the tablehere.
Exactly.
Like the wool is totally pulledoff of our eyes.
(23:27):
Like we know that we're...
We know too much.
It's not from me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do think that's so truethough that when we are in that
moment of just like, do I evenhave...
It's funny because justyesterday I had a friend that I
happened to run into and shesaid that her air conditioning
was out.
And...
(23:48):
And she was like, what are youdoing today?
And I had all this stuff to dofor work.
And I was at a coffee shop likeworking.
And I just felt this convictionof like, I need to invite her
and her two little kids who werewith her to my pool.
Like, I just need to do thatthis afternoon and to not work.
And so I did.
I did.
I was like, hey, why don't youcome over to my pool later today
(24:10):
and we'll just swim.
And I just remember her walkingout the door and just feeling
this weight of like, what asilly person I am.
that I somehow would have notdone that because I'm doing work
for God's kingdom.
Like my job is working forGod's kingdom.
And yet here is God's kingdom.
(24:30):
Here is his work.
Here is the pleasure and thejoy and the me being refreshed.
Like literally she walked outof the door and I was like, that
was so good.
What was it in me that waslike, you don't have time for
that.
You know, like God will give methe time for that.
He'll give me, he gives us.
Again, he's the one.
who generously, like in thisequation, I think sometimes we
(24:51):
think about it, like I'm workingwith my own limited resources
and therefore I don't haveenough.
Yes.
But if we have God in ourequation, then we have infinite
resources.
And so whatever it is that wegive away, we still have
infinite resources.
Absolutely.
Like we cannot ever outspendhis account, you know?
Speaker 02 (25:10):
No, not at all.
I mean, and I think that's a...
I think that's a real questionfor us to ask ourselves.
You know what I mean?
Of just really, what is mymindset of how much I have to
give?
Like, am I actually onlylooking at my own capacity?
Right.
You know what I mean?
And then even just thinkingthrough, I love what you said
(25:32):
about like, really the work ofthe Lord is people.
You know, it's like, I mean,even right now, it's like the
reason why we're recording thethings that we're doing is
because we want people to beencouraged.
And so sometimes in thebusyness, I think we make the
busyness a priority because wefeel like we've got to get all
of these things done.
But at the end of the day,God's heart is for people to be
(25:54):
making the connections about howmuch He loves us and how much
we're supposed to love othersand Him, obviously, in return.
And I think the lifestyle ofgenerosity is fully aware of the
fact that what He has isendless, even when we feel like
we're at our end.
Speaker 00 (26:14):
Yeah, I think that's so good.
Adrienne, would you talk to ourlistener who maybe is in that
space right now?
What would you say to somebodywho's like, this is all fine and
good, but actually, I'veexperienced so much loss.
What do I have left?
Have you ever felt that wayyourself?
(26:37):
And have you ever...
been refreshed by God and byhis people in those kind of
desert seasons, I think that wesometimes find ourselves in.
Speaker 02 (26:46):
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
I mean, I think first andforemost, it's okay.
I don't want like as much aswe're promoting generosity and
promoting not having thisscarcity mindset and relying on
God's resources.
I think everybody needs to behonest with the fact that
sometimes in a sense, we do needto just ourselves sit at the
(27:11):
Lord's feet and to be filled upby Him.
I think sometimes in the churchworld, we do over-glorify doing
work, the work of the Lord, andthose things are all important.
But I think if our hearts areso depleted, then what do we
(27:31):
think we're giving out to peopleanyway?
Because again, they don't needus.
They don't need us.
So if we're just busy givingthem these scraps of who we are,
I think we're really missingthe point.
And that is that we're to givefrom our own enjoyment of who
God is first and foremost.
And so if you find yourself,which I have many, many, many,
(27:54):
many times, I mean, the realityis, is life is hard.
It is so hard.
We all get just thrown crazysituations and crazy heartaches
and things that we have to gothrough tragedies.
I mean, there's so many thingsthat people are facing.
I think even just toacknowledge the political
turmoil that so many of us are,it just feels such a heavy
(28:15):
weight that I think it is soimportant that we learn to
literally just be with God, thatthat is first and foremost,
where the heart of generositystarts is learning to receive
from him the what we need firstand foremost.
And it's not, it is not selfishbecause again, the point isn't
that we're the ones giving toeverybody.
(28:36):
The point is that we'relearning to enjoy God first and
sitting at his feet first.
And so for those who feelempty, I would say be gracious,
be kind to yourself, um, learnto be okay to sit at the Lord's
feet and soak them up before youstart trying to give other
people, um, something that youdon't have yourself.
(28:56):
And if you don't even know howto start, I think it's so
important for us to create alanguage of honesty.
I think the book of Proverbs isa continual invitation to
learning a life of wisdom.
And part of that learning isthat we have to verbalize
wanting it.
(29:16):
And in order to want it, we'vegot to realize that we need it,
which is acknowledging we don'thave it.
And so I think that that's avery important place to start is
going, I don't have it and Iwant it.
And God says in his scripturesthat wisdom cries loud in the
streets.
It's everywhere.
It's there for us to learn.
And it isn't, I mean, I thinkone thing that we've been really
(29:39):
trying to address as we'vewritten the proverb study, all
of us, is that these aren'tnecessarily promises, but these
are principles.
These are our rhythms and waysto live your life.
And so it's not like you do,this one thing that it's not
like one plus one equals two andyou're just going to get the
scenario every single time.
I mean, I think anyone who'slived any amount of life knows
(30:01):
life doesn't work that way.
But it's learning to add thecontinual hunger and desire for
wisdom into our life.
And so no matter where you are,be honest about your lack, be
honest about your need, youknow, that we need God's wisdom.
And I love James so much whereit says, that God gives
(30:22):
liberally for those who ask.
He gives it without findingfault.
And so he doesn't look and go,well, like we were talking
earlier on, like their lives alittle, I don't know.
I heard what she said when shestubbed her toe the other day.
Like she definitely doesn'tdeserve it.
He doesn't treat us like that.
He doesn't look at us, but he'slike, you want some of this?
(30:42):
As a loving father, I'm goingto give it generously to you.
And then we get to glean fromscripture and we get to glean
from the Holy Spirit's And Ithink just soak up all of what
it is that God has to offer usno matter what season we find
ourselves in, whether it's aseason of plenty or overflowing
or whether it is a season ofjust being so exhausted that we
(31:06):
get to, I mean, we get to dependon the Lord in every season.
Speaker 00 (31:10):
I appreciate what you said about honesty because I
think that sometimes we thinkabout our lives and we feel like
we have to sort of project animage of what we think that a
Christian is supposed to looklike, right?
A Christian looks like somebodywho's generous and who
(31:32):
refreshes others.
And therefore I need to dothose things, right?
And I don't think that that isthe heartbeat of the gospel.
It's not the heartbeat of Godfor us.
And I love what you said aboutthese being principles.
And it's like, The idea is thatwhen things are going well in
the ideal world, you know, thatwhen we are generous, we too
(31:56):
prosper.
When we refresh others, we arealso refreshed.
And yet we see in the otherwisdom books, like in
Ecclesiastes or in Job, whenthings don't go that way, right?
We see when the wicked personprospers or we see Job, for
instance, who is a righteousperson who has all of these
trials that he goes through.
(32:17):
So I appreciate the way thatyou said that about it being
just a principle.
So this isn't a promise that wecan always rely on, that
anytime that I feel like I wantto be prosperous, all I need to
do is be generous, right?
Yeah, totally.
It doesn't work that way.
The world doesn't work thatway.
Yeah, I just think that that'sa great way of helping us
(32:40):
consider, because this is aproverb, we need to be sure that
we read it as a proverb and notas a promise from Jesus, like
this, that when you do this, youknow, I think sometimes we
think about, um, verses likethis in this transactional way,
because that's kind of how theworld works.
You know, like if I work, I getpaid a salary.
(33:00):
Yeah.
So, you know, I think sometimeswe come to God that way.
We think, well, if I'mgenerous, then you owe me,
Speaker 02 (33:09):
you know, I think even in generosity, sometimes
getting our eyes off ourselves,um, and just thinking about
other people and puttingourselves in a different
perspective maybe, or that Ithink that there's something
about seasons of darkness thatit helps lift our eyes a little
bit when we are outward focused.
(33:29):
But I love what you're sayingas well.
It really is about themotivation of the heart.
I think you could have oneperson that's generous and kind
of bitter about it or expectingsomething in return.
And then another person isgenerous but is really joyful in
it and not expecting anythingin return.
And maybe from an outsideperspective, it looks the same
(33:51):
way, but the heart motive isreally different.
Yeah,
Speaker 00 (33:55):
yeah.
That reminds me of the verseabout the Lord loving a cheerful
giver and that we should givewhat we've intended in our
hearts to give, right?
And that brings the Lord joy.
So one last question for you,Adrienne, as we're thinking
about this verse and how we canlive this out.
So if you were going to say onething that you could encourage
(34:20):
us to, as we're memorizing thisverse and we're thinking about
generosity, we're thinking aboutrefreshing others and being
refreshed and where all of thesethings come from, if you were
going to say what's oneactionable thing that maybe
would encourage us to be moregenerous?
Or maybe if we're in that spacewhere we're even resistant to
(34:42):
receiving or telling somebodythat we are in need, maybe an
action for each person.
If you're in a season ofabundance, what would you say to
that person?
Or if you're in a season of adesert, what would you say to
that person?
Speaker 02 (34:59):
I think I might actually say the same thing to
both seasons.
I think our starting place isfor us to sit and dwell about
the generosity of Jesus.
I just, I think that will keepour heart motives in check.
We will walk with a massiveamount of humility.
So even if we are perhapssomebody, perhaps God's gifted
(35:21):
you financially and you give toa lot of causes, but there may
be a little air of arrogance,even privately, you know, Or you
may be in ministry and a lot ofpeople depend on you.
And so you've kind of createdthis like, well, I'm the do
person.
I give to everybody else and Ido all of these things.
And I'm the person thatprovides these people's needs.
(35:41):
And what would the community dowithout me?
It's like thinking thosethings.
And then if you feel like theperson that's like, well, I
don't even know that I haveanything to give.
I think when we sit and wethink about the generosity of
Jesus, and I mean, like I wouldjust challenge your listeners
that, For reals, like go sitdown and have a quiet time and
(36:01):
start writing down the ways thatJesus has been generous to you.
Starting with salvation,starting with how we deserve
absolutely nothing and he gaveus eternal life.
Like what is eternal life?
Talk about like the gift of theHoly Spirit.
Who is the Holy Spirit?
How does he comfort us?
Those are all generous gifts.
How God has given us thecommunity within the church.
(36:23):
He's created a church familyfor us that we're supposed to
bear one another's needs.
We're supposed to build oneanother up.
And all of these are acts ofgenerosity.
I think it will overwhelm ourhearts to walking in humility,
but then also realizing again.
I don't know.
I just think when you've beenso blessed by something and
(36:44):
someone, it immediately makesyou want to give it to somebody
else.
And then even as we're talkingabout it earlier on, we're not
going to look with judgmentaleyes of like, I don't know, I
don't think they deservekindness.
They've been blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, whatever it is.
That would start to really justreframe.
And I'm even, as I'm sayingthis, I'm like, this is
something for myself to learn topractice.
For real.
(37:04):
These are the wisdom principlesthat we've got to add to our
lives.
You know, scripture talks aboutadd this and add that.
And that is wisdom.
It's learning to add thosethings.
And so I just think, meditatingon the generosity and the
kindness of God is our startingpoint.
Speaker 00 (37:25):
I love that because I do think you're right.
It simultaneously just elevatesour understanding of what we've
been given.
And yet it also humbles us inour recognition of like, who am
I to think that somehow I'm I'mthe person who's giving so much
when it's the Lord who has givenme all that I even have.
With that focusing
Speaker 02 (37:47):
on the Lord and humility, one of the biggest
keys, it's this unsecret secretto the book of Proverbs, is that
fear of the Lord and being inawe of Him, which is a position
of humility, is what unlockswisdom in our lives.
And so if you want more wisdomin your life, the position is
humility.
(38:07):
And I think gratitude puts usin that position.
And so I think it's almost justthat sort of beautiful,
all-encompassing position
Speaker 00 (38:19):
for us.
Yeah, I love that.
This was so good.
I wish that we had more time totalk about this.
I feel like I had a millionother questions that we didn't
get to.
But it just was really helpfulto consider, especially...
this proverb in that biggercontext, which I think you
(38:41):
really helped establish for us.
So thank you for joining metoday.
And for those of you who arelistening, if you want to get
Adrienne's new Bible study withall of those awesome ladies, I
will have a link in our shownotes and also have a link to
all things Adrienne so you canfollow her as well and get to
listen to her beautiful accent,which I've just been sitting
(39:02):
here like, I love how you talk.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
All right.
Thanks, Adrienne.
Thank you so much.
Guys, I'm jumping out of myseat to tell you about our new
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