August 13, 2025 • 42 mins
"I said, 'God, I'm going to give two years to this. I'm going to dive into the Word. I'm going to study it as deeply as I can. And I need you to show up...' My whole life changed. I no longer thought the way I used to. I no longer had the same desires. I spoke differently."
—Zach Windahl
Today's Episode: Listen in as Natalie chats with Zach Windahl about the responsibility, the privilege, and the joy of representing Jesus in all of our lives. Zach shares about his own radical two year journey that changed everything about how he lives his life. He challenges and encourages us with both the weight of our actions and the beautiful simplicity of living for Jesus. You won't want to miss this episode!
This month's memory verse: “And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” — Colossians 3:17
Today's guest: Zach Windahl is an author and content creator focused on helping his audience grow in their faith. He is the founder and former CEO of The Brand Sunday. Marrying his passion for entrepreneurship and making faith simple has landed Zach in a unique place in the Christian landscape, where he reaches hundreds of thousands of followers on social media every day. He wrote his latest book, The Bible, Simplified, to help others be less overwhelmed by the Bible and more confident in their faith.
Want to dive deeper into this month's verse? Join Natalie in the her monthly Bible Study.
Support our show: It's really just as simple as leaving us a review!
Links from today's show:
- Want more from Zach? Find him at zachwindahl.com and @zachwindahl.
- Check out this 4 step Bible study: The EASY Bible Study Method from Coffee and Bible Time.
- See the Bible as one big story with The One Story Bible, by Greg Gilbert (get it for 30% off!).
- Mark your calendars for Dwell's BIGGEST SALE OF THE YEAR - 8/18-8/29.
Follow Natalie & Vera at DwellDifferently.com and @dwelldifferenly.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back to the Dwell Differently show.
I'm Natalie Abbott.
Guys, we are talking about whatit looks like in word and in
deed to live out our faith.
It is just an enormouschallenge.
kind of concept for us that weget to reflect Jesus in our
(00:24):
lives.
And our memory verse this monthis from Colossians 3, 17.
It says, and whatever you do,whether in word or deed, do it
all in the name of the LordJesus, giving thanks to the
Father through him.
It's such an awesome verse.
And I am so excited becausetoday I'm talking with my friend
Zach.
And this is my first timegetting to meet with you, Zach.
(00:44):
Welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Come on.
It's a huge deal.
I'm so happy to be here.
This is amazing.
I love everything that you guysare doing.
So let's get into this verse.
This is great.
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
Well, I was excited because Zach's got a new book
coming out.
What's it called again?
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Yeah, it's called The Bible Simplified.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
The Bible Simplified.
So this book that he has comingout, like whenever somebody
writes a book, they always havelike, you know, they're reaching
out saying, hey, would youinterview me and whatever.
And a lot of times people willask and I'll be like, hey, but
actually...
We would love to talk a littlebit about your book, but really
what we want to talk about isthis verse.
And a lot of times people arelike, oh, yeah, just kidding.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
For real?
That actually
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
happens?
For real.
Well, I mean, if you think aboutit, like it's a little bit more
prep time than like somethingthat you just already like did
all the research and all of thelike brain dump into an entire
book.
You're like, I'm so excited.
I want to tell everybody aboutit.
But then it's like, oh, butactually, we're going to talk
about this other thing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
You know, I don't even want to talk about the
book.
Let's just let's do verse only.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
Wow.
OK, but actually, though, thething that I love about what you
do is I feel like you are tryingto make Christianity, Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (01:55):
just.
Somebody that people areattracted to, that he is
winsome, that's attractive.
And not that it's just merelyattractional, but let's remove
the barriers, I think, that wesometimes have.
Let's simplify things and makeit easy for people.
So I actually love, love, lovewhat you're doing.
(02:17):
And I do think that there's alot in this verse that would
lead us to live lives that say,hey, no, actually Jesus is
pretty simple.
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
For sure.
100%.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
If we're living out this verse, if all of our words,
if all of our deeds arereflective of who Jesus is, it's
actually pretty simple.
SPEAKER_01 (02:37):
Yeah.
It's a lifestyle.
Once you learn how to understandthe Bible, you can know how to
live it out in your day to day.
And that's what we get with thisverse and so many others.
It's like, Yeah, whatever youdo, whether in word or deed, do
it all in the name of the LordJesus, giving thanks to God the
Father through him.
Like, that's huge.
That gives us so much to baseour talk off of and inspire
(03:01):
people to live.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
So, I
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
love
SPEAKER_00 (03:03):
it.
So, before we dive into, like,the application of this, like,
we're going to live this out.
We're going to, in word anddeed, we're going to reflect
Jesus.
Yeah.
What in the world is thatlittle, I mean, it almost sounds
medieval, that little phrasethat's like, in the name of the
Lord Jesus, it feels like, youknow, I've come to you in the
name of the King.
And it's like, you know, like Ijust imagine like one of those
like medieval heralds who haslike a horn and a big scroll and
(03:27):
you know what I mean?
Like, can you break that downfor us in modern terms?
Like, what does it mean?
Because we don't say that reallyin our modern, it's like not a
thing necessarily.
Yeah.
So how can we understand what itmeans to do things in the name
of the Lord Jesus Christ?
SPEAKER_01 (03:43):
Yeah, we really need to look at kind of what was
going on in Colossae at thetime.
It was way different thananything that we experienced
today.
For them, they all worshipped abunch of different gods, as most
of the cities in the area did.
And to worship a god, if youwere worshipping them properly,
(04:04):
then they would bless you andthey would take care of your
city.
But if they weren't worshippedproperly, then famine would come
in, disease would come in.
And so now you have Paul comingto the city and saying, hey,
life is actually different thanyou expect it to be.
You are worshiping these godsone way, but I'm here to tell
(04:26):
you that there's one true Godand this is how you worship him
instead.
And so think of how crazy thatwould have sounded for them
because now if anything bad didhappen in the city, they would
know who to blame.
They would say, oh, it's becauseof the Christians that this is
happening.
But Paul's saying, no, this is awhole lifestyle change.
(04:46):
You are supposed to live yourlife through the name of Jesus
and do everything in his name.
And so, yeah, what did it meanback then to do something in the
name of Jesus?
It meant that you wererepresenting their identity and
their authority and coming toother people in the name of
(05:07):
Christ.
And so as a Christian, we'resaying, okay, we represent Jesus
in all that we do, which is amajor deal.
Like if you live out your lifesaying that you represent Jesus,
all the good things that you doand all the bad things that you
do can be really twisted fromthe people around us.
And so it puts an authority ontop of us saying, okay, man, we
(05:32):
really need to change the waythat we live our lives if we
believe that we're arepresentation of Christ in
everything.
And so I think when we readthis, do all in the name of the
Lord Jesus, that we need toactually realize, okay, do we...
Do we want that responsibility?
Because it's a major one.
(05:54):
And I don't think a lot ofChristians realize the weight
that comes with it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
Well, I mean, but don't you think that's like
experientially so true whensomebody says, well, you know,
it's not that I wouldn't believein Jesus.
It's that I don't likeChristians.
Yeah, for sure.
Like I'm a pastor's wife andthere are times when I will
apologize for hurt that peoplehave experienced from the church
(06:21):
or from people who say thatthey're Christians, that they
have a lot of trauma.
And it's like, man, I would loveto help you undo sort of the
trauma that you've experiencedand hopefully give you a
different picture of what aChristian can look like.
SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
But also, I'm going to push back on that slightly
because I think it's goofy thatwe say that we focus on what
somebody else does and blame Godfor it.
We're saying that like, oh, thisperson didn't treat me right.
So now I'm not going to love theGod of the universe, even though
I grew up in church and havespent time with him and
(06:59):
understand him.
Maybe you didn't truly know himand encounter him in the first
place.
Because if somebody comes to meand they have a problem with my
wife, I'm not going to leave mywife because of something that
somebody else says.
That
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
is a really great example.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
It's the same thing.
What are we talking about?
Oh, somebody hurt my feelings ata church.
Great.
Well, then find a differentchurch.
Spend time in the Word.
Pull yourself out for a littlewhile and dig deeper.
It happened to me for years.
I fell away from my faithbecause of other Christians.
And I allowed other Christiansto really impact my relationship
(07:35):
with God.
And it should never be that way.
But I get it.
So I understand.
But now coming out of it on theother side, looking back at it
is like, oh, my mindset was justin the wrong place.
I was focusing on other people.
I was looking out instead of up.
And I allowed people to impactme negatively, but I chose to
(07:58):
dig into the word and learn moreabout Jesus and what that means
for our life and grow in thatrelationship.
And that's what benefited me themost through it.
And I wouldn't have that anyother way because now I'm able
to relate with people that havegone through similar things.
But I also think a lot of peopleneed more of a kick in the pants
(08:20):
to be like, okay, this is like,life is actually different and I
should be growing closer to Godand it's on me.
It's my responsibility to growcloser to God and not somebody
else, not somebody that's aleader at a church.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
I do love that.
You know, I do think that'sfunny because I'm always telling
my kids when they get in fightswith each other, like, you are
responsible for you though.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
You know, like,
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
You took part in this in some way and you're
responsible for your ownactions.
What about you?
Like maybe, yeah, your siblinghurt you, but also like you're
responsible for you.
Like what are you going to dowith that hurt?
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
You know?
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
Interestingly enough, my next question for you
is like, so this context of thebigger passage in Colossians,
You have this imagery that isbeing used between life and
death, right?
And the old self and the newself, and it's this dramatic
transformation.
(09:24):
And then this little verse iskind of like the culmination
verse.
But before we talk about that, Iwould love to hear, I mean,
already you've talked just alittle bit about this kind of
walking away season that youhad.
Yeah.
Can you tell me more about yourpersonal story of the death to
(09:44):
life, the old self, the newself?
How have you experienced that,that you can say, hey, I
actually do want to representJesus.
I actually find this to be thehighest calling in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
Yeah, 100%.
I love that imagery of takingoff something, taking off your
old self to dying to your oldself and putting on your new
self, being born again.
And I did go through that phasewhere I was struggling with
other Christians that I wassurrounded by.
And I said, God, I'm going togive two years to this.
I'm going to dive into the word.
(10:19):
I'm going to study it as deep asI can.
And I was like, I need you toshow up.
And I moved out to Australia,actually, to join this Bible
study program where we studiedfor 12 hours a day, six days a
week, super intensive.
And being out there in the firsttwo days of just spending time
(10:39):
fully dedicated to worshipingGod and learning more about him,
my whole life changed.
And I no longer thought the waythat I used to.
I no longer had the samedesires.
I spoke different.
I listened to different music.
I hung around different people.
And that's that like, okay, thisis a new life.
(11:01):
Things are different now for me.
It doesn't mean that the oldself doesn't creep in sometimes.
I think it's an every single daywe need to die to our old self.
And we need to wake up and say,okay, I'm putting off my shame.
I'm putting off my anger and I'mputting on compassion and peace.
And I'm putting on the lifestylethat Jesus shows us to live, but
(11:24):
it is every single day.
Okay, I'm dead to that.
I'm going from glory to glorynow.
My life is continually changingfrom here on out every single
day.
And I think that only happens byspending more time in the word
and spending time in prayer andgetting to know him more and
more instead of just going tochurch on a Sunday, for
(11:45):
instance.
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
Yeah, I think it's interesting that we sort of
compartmentalize our faithsometimes.
Like, I love that you have thislike radical, like, okay, I'm
taking two years off of life andI'm going to figure it out.
And maybe not even two years offof life, but two years on,
right?
Like two years of like, I amhardcore, going to dive in.
(12:08):
This is so important that it'slife or death.
Like this is the trajectory.
Where is my life going?
Like, I mean, can you talk aboutthe trajectory of your life if
you hadn't done that maybe?
Versus, you know, where you findyourself now.
Can you even imagine?
SPEAKER_01 (12:25):
Yeah, I can't even imagine because at the moment
that I made that change, I hadjust lost my job.
I had just gotten broken upwith.
I had no money.
I was like 27 and I was notwhere I wanted to be in life.
And I was like, wow, this isawful.
Like, I don't know where thiscould go from here.
(12:46):
Like, it couldn't have gottenmuch worse for me at 27.
Obviously, now looking back atit, it's like, ah, I could have
pulled
SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
through.
Right.
But in the
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
moment, it's like life or death to you when you're
in your mid-20s.
And so where would I have been?
Who knows?
I think I would have been angryand bitter.
And I think I would have beenchasing after just personal
desires and personal success,whatever that looked like.
But I think I always had astrong root of where my morals
(13:20):
were.
And I always believed Christianbeliefs, I guess, deep down.
And I always knew and trustedthat God was good.
But I also thought that a lot ofit relied on me and all my
success relied on me.
And so that was kind of how Ireally approached life and lived
it out.
(13:40):
And I mean, yes, since then,just seeing, okay...
Now I want to help other peoplego through a similar process
that I've gone through.
And through that, I've seen Godopen door after door and
continually be transforming mylife to be more like his and
falling deeper in love withscripture and becoming more
loving to the people around meand more kind and living out the
(14:04):
fruit of the spirit in the dayto day.
And I know it's just the HolySpirit working in my life that
allows that to take place.
And I know it's possibleforever.
listening as long as we dig inand say, okay, this is where I
wanna be.
This is where Jesus is taking meand I'm along for the ride.
SPEAKER_00 (14:25):
You know, it's funny because I think for some reason,
and I don't know what it isabout us as humans, but it's
like, if I read this passage inColossians and it's like, you
know, put off anger, put offmalice, put off greed, like,
like stop doing these things.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
(14:45):
You know?
And then it's like, but behumble, be kind, be, you know,
in every action, all of yourspeech, like live this way.
And it's like, that's sooftentimes like that.
Isn't that what we want ourlives to look
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
like?
Of course.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:00):
And yet we read these things and we either
convince ourselves of one of twothings, I think.
We either convince ourselvesthat like, oh, we're doing
pretty good.
Yeah.
You know, I haven't murderedanybody this week.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or we look at that list andwe're like, that is just so out
of reach.
Yeah.
Like who even does that?
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
Yeah.
You know?
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (15:21):
And I just wonder like how...
You talked a little bit aboutthe Holy Spirit, but can you,
can you like nail that down alittle bit for us?
Like, how do we actually dothis?
Because I mean, I remember, sohere's the crazy thing.
When I was not a Christian,somebody gave me a Bible and I
started reading it and Iremember thinking like, I wish I
could be like this, but thetruth is like, this is so
(15:44):
impossible.
Like, I remember just thinking,gosh, this is, this is like the
best thing.
worst book I've ever readbecause it's like, it's like,
here's this unattainableperfection that you would love
for your life to look like.
And yet again, it'sunattainable.
So there you have it.
So like, how do we go from thisdeath to life or this like
inability to even live this wayto this, like, like obviously
(16:08):
we're being called to live thisway.
So the expectation is that wecan like somehow.
SPEAKER_01 (16:13):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah, I mean, that's the HolySpirit working in you.
Paul says that the fruit of theSpirit is love and joy and peace
and patience and kindness andgoodness and faithfulness and
self-control.
And so those are all things thatare the fruit of our lives as we
grow closer to him.
(16:33):
So if we look back a year fromright now, our lives should be
more joyful, loving, kind,peaceful, if the Holy Spirit is
truly moving within us.
And how do we get closer to him?
I love back then...
To follow a rabbi meant that youwould leave everything behind
(16:53):
and you would eat with yourrabbi, you would drink with your
rabbi, you would walk with them,you would sit under their
teaching, you would sleep bythem.
Your entire life was dedicatedto life with your rabbi.
And for us, our rabbi is Jesus.
And I don't think that that'svery common for a lot of people
to think, okay, this is whatdiscipleship is, to truly sit
(17:17):
under the rabbi and live fullydedicated to learning about him
and transforming our lives to bea reflection of him.
And I think if we switch ourmentality of discipleship is
mentorship to discipleship issomething that we are under him,
Jesus as our rabbi, I think itwould make us a lot more
(17:39):
encouraged to dig deeper withhim and realize that it's a full
life transformation, that ourdesires should be his and we
want to become a reflection ofhim in all that we do.
So I love just that.
different imagery there.
And by doing so, by spendingmore time with him, I think
that's where the fruit reallycomes out of us.
(18:02):
And it says they'll know us byour fruit and our love for
others.
And as believers, we should beproducing good fruit.
And if we're producing, if we'resaying that we're believers and
we're producing bad fruit,there's an issue there.
And I think you need to figureout what the root of that is.
Because Our fruit should belove, joy, peace, patience,
(18:25):
kindness, goodness, gentleness,faithfulness, and self-control.
And that happens by going fromglory to glory, being
transformed to be closer toJesus through the Holy Spirit in
our lives.
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of what Jesus says
about, I'm the vine and you arethe branches, whoever abides in
me.
Yeah.
And whoever abides in my word,he says.
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
You know, like this concept of an I in him, whoever
abides in me, an I in him, likethe Holy Spirit is in us, and
yet we are in his word.
And it's this like, it's almostlike one of those like really
bizarre Matryoshka dolls, youknow?
It's just like multiple stackingdolls where you're like, Jesus
(19:11):
is in me.
I am in his word.
He is in me.
I am in him.
He's in the Father, but I'm inhim.
So am I in the Father?
I think I am, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (19:17):
Yes, literally.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
But I mean, it's just like
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
to
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
understand our, like if you think about it in all of
those ways, it's like we are sointerconnected with Jesus.
And I love that rabbi picture oflike sleeping next to him, being
in his presence, eating withhim.
And yet, you know, when Jesusleaves the earth, he says, I'm
(19:45):
going away and it's going to bebetter for you.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
It's
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
better if I send the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
Totally, right?
Like, okay, if that's true, thenit should impact our lives in
some way.
SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
Absolutely.
I mean, like the Holy Spirit,God himself indwelling us is
better than us being like one ofthe 12 disciples hanging out
with Jesus.
And I think sometimes we havelike the reverse in our minds of
like, oh, wouldn't it be awesomeif Jesus were just right here
with me?
And it's like, no, he's not justright here with you.
He's like right here.
(20:18):
In you.
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Way bigger of a deal.
SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
Way bigger of a
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
deal.
You no longer need to go to thetemple to worship him and to sit
in his presence.
Now the Holy Spirit, hispresence is inside of you and
everywhere you go is like you'rebringing the temple there.
You're bringing God to thatarea.
You're bringing heaven to earthin every single area you go
because the Holy Spirit isinside of you.
(20:43):
That's a major deal.
People would travel from allover the world just to go and be
in his presence.
And now we can sit in hispresence in Minnesota and
Alabama and Missouri andCalifornia and China.
Like everywhere else, you cansit in his presence now today
(21:03):
because of the Holy Spirit.
That's a way bigger deal thananything we could have ever
imagined.
SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
When was the last time you saw someone fall in
love with God's work for thefirst time?
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That's why the easy Bible studymethod from Coffee and Bible
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(21:33):
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(21:53):
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I want to tell you about a newBible that's out from Crossway.
(22:14):
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This Bible helps readers,whether new or seasoned, see how
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(22:37):
I wonder if there's a person inyour life who needs a Bible like
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We'll be right back.
(23:11):
How does that become mundane tous?
Do you know what I mean?
Like, and I think we all gothrough these like fluctuations
of like, I'm feeling it.
It's awesome.
And then we go through thesevalleys where we're like, I
think the Lord is punishing me.
Like, what did I, you know,where did you go, Lord?
But can you talk to that alittle bit, like maybe from your
(23:33):
own life experience of like, youknow, like we know that this is
true.
I mean, I think if you've been aChristian for any length of
time, you can say, yeah, theHoly Spirit dwells in me.
And yet there are times when wesay it with gusto because we're
like, yes.
And then there are times whenwe're like, I am saying that,
but I'm doubting the words thatI'm saying out loud.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
Yeah, I think it comes down to building proper
habits and having our livesdedicated to scripture and
prayer and worship.
Because if we aren't growingtowards something and growing
closer to something, we'redrifting apart.
And that's the same formarriages, relationships, and
(24:13):
our relationship with God.
If we aren't growing closer tohim, we're automatically
drifting apart from him.
So we need to learn to cravehim.
And so maybe that's That meansthat you need to switch up your
typical routine.
If you've read the Bible thesame way for the last 20 years
and you're like, yeah, yeah,yeah, I've heard these stories,
(24:35):
but I'm reading it just becauseI need to read it, switch it up.
read it in three months, read itin 30 days, like spend more time
in prayer, change your prayertime from just talking to now
spending time listening andjournaling what you hear him say
to you, like switch it up insome way.
(24:55):
And then I think another hugething like we see in this verse
is gratitude.
Gratitude is the most importantthing for our mindset and for
our lifestyle.
If we learn how to be gratefulto God for everything, it'll
impact the way we view all oflife.
The Jewish way of looking atgratitude is that you thank God
(25:19):
a hundred times a day for allthe blessings that he's given
you.
Not in like a spiritual blessingthing, but like, thank you for
this water, Lord.
Thank you for ears to hear thispodcast.
Thank you for feet to stand onas I walk to make myself a
sandwich later.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
(25:39):
And I think if we learn to shiftour heart to be from a place of
gratitude and seeing Godeverywhere, it's going to change
our interactions with himbecause now we're inviting him
into our mundane and hispresence is going to fill every
single room we enter, the carthat we drive, wherever we are,
(25:59):
his presence is going to be withus because we're always thinking
about him and he's on the top ofour minds.
And so I think gratitude is notin like a thank you universe for
all these things, but thank youGod for all of these blessings.
Literally believing, deep downbelieving that every single
blessing, everything thathappens in our life happens
(26:22):
because of him.
And by doing so, oh my goodness,then every single day you're
experiencing him instead of juston Sunday.
And even like going to churchjust on Sunday is such a funny
thing.
I read this article about thisstudy that was done where if you
just go to church on Sunday, notmuch happens in your life.
(26:43):
If you read the Bible twice aweek, not much happens in your
life.
If you read the Bible threetimes a week, not much happens
in your life.
But if you read the Bible fourtimes a week, you wouldn't
believe the change of people,like less anxiety, less
depression, more joy.
The list goes on and on aboutall of the benefits of daily
(27:08):
spending time in God's word, inhis presence, and trying to find
a way how to bring him into ourday-to-day mundane things.
In the West, we have a veryGnostic mindset often, even
though it's a bad thing, Ithink, where it's like, okay,
physical stuff is bad andspiritual stuff is good.
(27:30):
But for Paul and Jesus and theHebrew mindset, it was that all
of life is actually spiritual.
So if I'm an author, it's aspiritual job.
If I'm sending emails, I can doit in a spiritual way that
honors God.
If I'm cooking dinner for mywife, I can do it in a way that
(27:53):
honors God and invites him intoit.
And I think by By learning toshift that mindset to see
things, okay, all of this can beused for God.
All of my words, all of mydeeds, everything, my job, my
relationships, if I can use themto glorify God and to bring him
into my situation, then I thinkyour life is just gonna be
(28:14):
filled with so much more hopeand joy and love and you're
gonna experience him more thanjust being stuck in the mundane
of the day-to-day.
SPEAKER_00 (28:24):
Yeah.
Isn't that funny though?
Because it's like what hasactually shifted is nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:31):
Like your physical reality hasn't changed.
The house you live in, the jobthat you have, the relationship,
none of that is shifted.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Yeah.
Mindset.
SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
At all.
It's all about like that, likeinviting Jesus into, like I love
that idea of inviting Jesus intoyour mundane.
SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
Yeah.
It's like, how cool is it tofold the laundry with the Lord?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
And how...
tedious is it to not
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
yeah 100%
SPEAKER_00 (28:56):
and it sounds so goofy doing the exact same thing
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
doing the exact same
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
thing right and yet somehow you're like lord thank
you for this pair of socks oryou know I mean like
SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
I guarantee people that hear that are going to be
like, that is so lame.
I'm not going to do that.
But I promise you, if you do,literally as you're doing
laundry, like, thank you, Lord,for these clothes.
Thank you for a washing machinein my home so I didn't have to
leave today and I can spend moretime in your presence.
Things like that, as goofy andas like, woo-woo spiritual as it
(29:29):
may sound, it's so applicableand it will completely change
your heart posture and who youbecome as a person, I think.
SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
Yeah, 100% because it's like the things that would
be interruptions becomeopportunities.
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
I love that.
The things that are difficult,again, they're opportunities.
It's like opportunities for theLord to be a part of this thing
that I'm doing right now insteadof me just on my own ho-hum
doing my thing and go to churchon Sunday.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
You know?
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:03):
Okay.
Well, I want to get to thisconcept of word and deed that
we're talking about in thisverse because I think that that
sometimes, just like what youwere talking about with like the
way that we, like the Gnosticidea that we have in Western
culture, we have this, at leastin Western Christianity, a lot
(30:26):
of times a separation of wordand deed historically in the
church where it's like, oh,well, that's one of those
churches that does a lot ofthings.
Or that's one of those churchesthat preaches the word really
well.
And I think that we as humans,just as individuals, I think we
have a tendency to be like,well, I really know a lot.
(30:49):
So I feel comfortable sharing myfaith with people.
But I don't know that I feelcomfortable serving in a soup
kitchen.
You know, or whatever.
And not that it has to be thosetwo kind of extreme versions of
word and speech of like, andtalking about Jesus and being
Jesus's hands.
SPEAKER_01 (31:07):
But
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
in all, again, in all of those mundane things, how
do we love him?
Is it possible even to separatethose two?
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
Yeah, I think they go hand in hand all the time.
My father-in-law says, your mostvaluable asset is your word.
And I think by being true toyour word and actually living it
out.
So when you say something,actually doing it, it invites
trust into the relationship.
And if people trust you, they'regoing to listen to you.
(31:40):
And so, yeah, maybe you are aperson that loves to just share
the word, but your lifestyle oryour actions may not be a
reflection of it.
Or maybe you just serve peopleand give, but you never share
the word.
I think both are...
there needs to be a shift there.
(32:00):
I think there needs to be achange because our lives need to
be both.
Jesus would preach and he wouldact.
He would perform miracles.
The early church would performmiracles and then they would
preach the gospel.
And so for us today, it's like,yeah, wow, Lord, you use me in
some way physically and thenopen up the door for me to share
(32:21):
my faith from there.
I think for non-believers,especially like our testimony
and what God has done in ourlives, is the greatest way to
share our faith.
So just sharing how God hasmoved in your life, not being
super pushy, but loving in youractions and saying, hey, this is
why I'm doing what I'm doing.
(32:42):
This is how my life has changed.
And I think that alone is gonnabe so attractive to people that
it's gonna draw them in more andmore to wanna have what you
already have.
SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Well, and I think going back to kind of where we
started about, making our faithsomething that is winsome and
simple to people.
Like if we're living this way,isn't that just naturally going
to like draw people in and belike, well, that person is just
(33:15):
different.
You know that.
I mean, like I can think ofpeople that, like I find out
later, I'm like, oh, I figuredyou were a Christian.
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
Yeah, for sure.
A hundred
SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
percent.
You know, where it's like, Idon't know when I first meet
you, like that, that's what you,like how, who you are or
whatever.
But like, it, it sometimes isjust like, you can't hide it.
Like you can't hide the factthat you're a Christian.
I could tell right away, youknow, like I wish that people
would say that about me.
And it's not just because I findout like I'm married to a
pastor, but like, you know,like, What is it about the
(33:49):
presence of you coming into acoffee shop or doing your
groceries, shopping, or whateverit is that brings, like,
bringing Jesus with you?
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
You know, in your word and in your speech, like,
or in your actions, like, whatare we communicating?
And not to be...
I don't want people feeling badout there.
SPEAKER_01 (34:17):
Yeah, of course not.
SPEAKER_00 (34:18):
Right?
Like, I don't even know.
Like, and some people probablylike this, this crazy people
right now talking about thesethings.
But, but, and I, you know, Ithink that there, there have
been like these, these examplesof people who are like, you
know, handing out tracks atevery restaurant they go to and
stuff like that.
And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonnabash on that.
(34:38):
I know some really genuinelysweet people who do that.
And I'm like, and that's, that'syou, dog.
For
SPEAKER_01 (34:43):
sure.
SPEAKER_00 (34:44):
Yeah.
But what is it that we can do,you know, and maybe this is just
like a question to leave hangingin the air.
It's like, what is one way thatI can live this verse out?
Yeah.
As me, Natalie Abbott, or you,Zach, like, what, you know, how
do we, how do we apply this, youknow, in a way that's genuine to
(35:09):
us?
SPEAKER_01 (35:11):
I think a lot of people don't understand what the
gospel of Jesus is.
So gospel isn't a Christianword.
It didn't come from the Bible.
Julius Caesar had a gospel.
Alexander the Great had agospel.
It was a way of talking aboutwhat life was gonna be like
under a change of leadership.
(35:32):
So now that the Romans are incharge, The gospel message was,
this is what life is going to belike for you under Roman rule.
So now you have Jesus coming inand saying, okay, this is what
life under my kingdom is.
What life with me as king islike.
People are going to be healed.
(35:53):
People are going to be forgiven.
There's going to be peace.
There's going to be wholeness.
Sins are going to be wipedclean.
There's going to be repentancefrom you.
And so for us looking, okay,That's what the gospel is.
That's what we're signing upfor.
Life under his kingdom isactually so much better.
(36:13):
I think if we understand howmuch better life is under his
kingdom, it'll change the waythat we live our lives and
realize that, man, he's using usto spread the kingdom all over
the world.
That's a huge deal.
Like right now, we're supposedto be praying.
for heaven to come to earth andeverything that we do that's in
(36:35):
obedience to him, we're bringingthe gospel one inch closer to
what it's going to eventuallybe.
That's a major deal.
Fearing God and obeying hiscommands is literally what we
should live our entire livesbased around because it's what's
going to bring the kingdom outinto the world.
(36:55):
And he wants to partner with us.
And how incredible is that?
That God, the creator of theuniverse, wants to partner with
you and I to help bring hiskingdom here because we believe
that it's better than what theworld is telling us the kingdom
is supposed to be.
Incredible.
So praise God for that.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
No, it is literally unbelievable.
There are times when I'm just inawe if I really think about it.
I get to represent God in theworld, in my speech and in my
actions.
It's kind of like whether I likeit or not.
(37:36):
Going back to that idea of thesequote-unquote bad Christians and
church hurt and whatever, it'slike whether you like it or not,
SPEAKER_01 (37:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
If you say you are a Christian, you are like Christ
is in the name Christian.
Like you are representing Jesus.
For
SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
sure.
Absolutely.
That's a big deal.
SPEAKER_00 (37:55):
It's a big deal.
It's a big deal.
It is.
And it's like, is it going to beokay?
But again, it's like the Lordhas equipped us.
SPEAKER_01 (38:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
He himself in us.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (38:09):
Y'all got this.
Yeah.
Y'all got this.
All right.
Well, Zach, Honestly, I wouldlove to keep talking because
this has just been so good formy soul.
Come on.
But I just want to leave justwith our listeners in mind.
You've been listening to us kindof gush a little bit, get real
(38:29):
pumped up.
But what about the person who'slistening to this who's at that
space where they're like, Idon't know.
I don't know.
Either I don't know that Ieven...
can believe this or
SPEAKER_01 (38:44):
yeah
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
or if this could be true for me yeah or if they're
just like this is all new anywaywhat would you say kind of to
close out for for that personwho's listening to this and and
like what does it really mean toto yeah for Jesus and and and
how do I how do I actually dothat
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
Totally, I think you need to look at the Bible and
zoom out from it and see it froma big picture perspective and
see it from a historicalperspective and how this is your
ancestors now and this is wherewe're heading in the world and
this is what you're signing upfor.
But so often for us, it can belike, hey, just read your Bible.
But that doesn't do a lot ofgood most of the time if you
(39:25):
don't know the context ofthings.
So I think zoom out, learn itfrom a big picture And by doing
so, you're going to see, okay,this is what it means to be a
Christian and to represent Jesusin all that I do.
And yeah, I am signing up for itbecause I believe it's the right
way.
I believe it's where the worldis heading.
And I believe that by doing so,he's going to use me to help
(39:48):
bring the kingdom to myneighborhood and to my
relationships.
And we get to work together.
How fun is that?
You get to wake up every morningand say, Holy Spirit, use me
today.
In whatever way that means, useme today.
And I think your life will turninto an adventure and you're
(40:08):
joining into a pretty crazyride.
SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
I feel like that's a very accurate description.
It is a crazy ride.
It's a crazy ride.
Um, it's the best ride.
It's the best ride.
You know, it's funny.
I was talking with, um, somegals on my team today.
We were talking about, um,having kids and I was like, it's
the best and the worst.
Like it's the best becausethere's all these things.
And then it's the worst becauseit's like, these are, these are
(40:34):
the hearts, like, like nothingreally worthwhile.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:38):
isn't also going to be really hard at times.
So it is a crazy ride.
Like there's going to be, Jesussays, you know, pick up your
cross and follow me.
SPEAKER_00 (40:45):
So they're like, it's not all going to be
rainbows and puppy dogs, butyou're always going to be with
Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
He's there.
He's there.
All right.
Well, Zach, thank you so much.
Guys who are listening, we haveall the things in the show notes
about Zach.
If you want to read through theBible and do it in a simple way,
He's got you.
So we're going to have that linkin there and all of his stuff.
Zach, thank you so much forjoining me today and for being
willing to talk about thisverse.
(41:14):
And if you guys want more, youjust have to look it up because
if you want more about his book,he didn't talk about it on this
podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (41:21):
Exactly.
Exactly.
We're here for the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
Yes.
Amen.
Oh, thank you so
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
much.
This was an honor.
Incredible.
Really appreciate
SPEAKER_00 (41:28):
it.
Me too.
Thanks.
Okay, don't hit fast forwardbecause you're going to want to
hear this.
And I am just barely containingmy excitement.
We have our warehouse sale,which is our biggest sale of the
year.
This August, the 18th throughthe 29th, we do it once a year
and we sell all kinds of stuff.
(41:49):
We open up the vaults and wehave old verses.
We have key tags, tattoos, andverse cards that you can buy
separately, which we never sell.
We have massively discountedverse kits for gifts that you
can stock up on for retreats,your Bible study, your church,
bingo.
We'll be right back.
Hey, welcome back to the Dwell Differently show.
I'm Natalie Abbott.
Guys, we are talking about whatit looks like in word and in
deed to live out our faith.
It is just an enormouschallenge.
kind of concept for us that weget to reflect Jesus in our
(00:24):
lives.
And our memory verse this monthis from Colossians 3, 17.
It says, and whatever you do,whether in word or deed, do it
all in the name of the LordJesus, giving thanks to the
Father through him.
It's such an awesome verse.
And I am so excited becausetoday I'm talking with my friend
Zach.
And this is my first timegetting to meet with you, Zach.
(00:44):
Welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Come on.
It's a huge deal.
I'm so happy to be here.
This is amazing.
I love everything that you guysare doing.
So let's get into this verse.
This is great.
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
Well, I was excited because Zach's got a new book
coming out.
What's it called again?
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Yeah, it's called The Bible Simplified.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
The Bible Simplified.
So this book that he has comingout, like whenever somebody
writes a book, they always havelike, you know, they're reaching
out saying, hey, would youinterview me and whatever.
And a lot of times people willask and I'll be like, hey, but
actually...
We would love to talk a littlebit about your book, but really
what we want to talk about isthis verse.
And a lot of times people arelike, oh, yeah, just kidding.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
For real?
That actually
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
happens?
For real.
Well, I mean, if you think aboutit, like it's a little bit more
prep time than like somethingthat you just already like did
all the research and all of thelike brain dump into an entire
book.
You're like, I'm so excited.
I want to tell everybody aboutit.
But then it's like, oh, butactually, we're going to talk
about this other thing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
You know, I don't even want to talk about the
book.
Let's just let's do verse only.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
Wow.
OK, but actually, though, thething that I love about what you
do is I feel like you are tryingto make Christianity, Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (01:55):
just.
Somebody that people areattracted to, that he is
winsome, that's attractive.
And not that it's just merelyattractional, but let's remove
the barriers, I think, that wesometimes have.
Let's simplify things and makeit easy for people.
So I actually love, love, lovewhat you're doing.
(02:17):
And I do think that there's alot in this verse that would
lead us to live lives that say,hey, no, actually Jesus is
pretty simple.
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
For sure.
100%.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
If we're living out this verse, if all of our words,
if all of our deeds arereflective of who Jesus is, it's
actually pretty simple.
SPEAKER_01 (02:37):
Yeah.
It's a lifestyle.
Once you learn how to understandthe Bible, you can know how to
live it out in your day to day.
And that's what we get with thisverse and so many others.
It's like, Yeah, whatever youdo, whether in word or deed, do
it all in the name of the LordJesus, giving thanks to God the
Father through him.
Like, that's huge.
That gives us so much to baseour talk off of and inspire
(03:01):
people to live.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
So, I
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
love
SPEAKER_00 (03:03):
it.
So, before we dive into, like,the application of this, like,
we're going to live this out.
We're going to, in word anddeed, we're going to reflect
Jesus.
Yeah.
What in the world is thatlittle, I mean, it almost sounds
medieval, that little phrasethat's like, in the name of the
Lord Jesus, it feels like, youknow, I've come to you in the
name of the King.
And it's like, you know, like Ijust imagine like one of those
like medieval heralds who haslike a horn and a big scroll and
(03:27):
you know what I mean?
Like, can you break that downfor us in modern terms?
Like, what does it mean?
Because we don't say that reallyin our modern, it's like not a
thing necessarily.
Yeah.
So how can we understand what itmeans to do things in the name
of the Lord Jesus Christ?
SPEAKER_01 (03:43):
Yeah, we really need to look at kind of what was
going on in Colossae at thetime.
It was way different thananything that we experienced
today.
For them, they all worshipped abunch of different gods, as most
of the cities in the area did.
And to worship a god, if youwere worshipping them properly,
(04:04):
then they would bless you andthey would take care of your
city.
But if they weren't worshippedproperly, then famine would come
in, disease would come in.
And so now you have Paul comingto the city and saying, hey,
life is actually different thanyou expect it to be.
You are worshiping these godsone way, but I'm here to tell
(04:26):
you that there's one true Godand this is how you worship him
instead.
And so think of how crazy thatwould have sounded for them
because now if anything bad didhappen in the city, they would
know who to blame.
They would say, oh, it's becauseof the Christians that this is
happening.
But Paul's saying, no, this is awhole lifestyle change.
(04:46):
You are supposed to live yourlife through the name of Jesus
and do everything in his name.
And so, yeah, what did it meanback then to do something in the
name of Jesus?
It meant that you wererepresenting their identity and
their authority and coming toother people in the name of
(05:07):
Christ.
And so as a Christian, we'resaying, okay, we represent Jesus
in all that we do, which is amajor deal.
Like if you live out your lifesaying that you represent Jesus,
all the good things that you doand all the bad things that you
do can be really twisted fromthe people around us.
And so it puts an authority ontop of us saying, okay, man, we
(05:32):
really need to change the waythat we live our lives if we
believe that we're arepresentation of Christ in
everything.
And so I think when we readthis, do all in the name of the
Lord Jesus, that we need toactually realize, okay, do we...
Do we want that responsibility?
Because it's a major one.
(05:54):
And I don't think a lot ofChristians realize the weight
that comes with it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
Well, I mean, but don't you think that's like
experientially so true whensomebody says, well, you know,
it's not that I wouldn't believein Jesus.
It's that I don't likeChristians.
Yeah, for sure.
Like I'm a pastor's wife andthere are times when I will
apologize for hurt that peoplehave experienced from the church
(06:21):
or from people who say thatthey're Christians, that they
have a lot of trauma.
And it's like, man, I would loveto help you undo sort of the
trauma that you've experiencedand hopefully give you a
different picture of what aChristian can look like.
SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
But also, I'm going to push back on that slightly
because I think it's goofy thatwe say that we focus on what
somebody else does and blame Godfor it.
We're saying that like, oh, thisperson didn't treat me right.
So now I'm not going to love theGod of the universe, even though
I grew up in church and havespent time with him and
(06:59):
understand him.
Maybe you didn't truly know himand encounter him in the first
place.
Because if somebody comes to meand they have a problem with my
wife, I'm not going to leave mywife because of something that
somebody else says.
That
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
is a really great example.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
It's the same thing.
What are we talking about?
Oh, somebody hurt my feelings ata church.
Great.
Well, then find a differentchurch.
Spend time in the Word.
Pull yourself out for a littlewhile and dig deeper.
It happened to me for years.
I fell away from my faithbecause of other Christians.
And I allowed other Christiansto really impact my relationship
(07:35):
with God.
And it should never be that way.
But I get it.
So I understand.
But now coming out of it on theother side, looking back at it
is like, oh, my mindset was justin the wrong place.
I was focusing on other people.
I was looking out instead of up.
And I allowed people to impactme negatively, but I chose to
(07:58):
dig into the word and learn moreabout Jesus and what that means
for our life and grow in thatrelationship.
And that's what benefited me themost through it.
And I wouldn't have that anyother way because now I'm able
to relate with people that havegone through similar things.
But I also think a lot of peopleneed more of a kick in the pants
(08:20):
to be like, okay, this is like,life is actually different and I
should be growing closer to Godand it's on me.
It's my responsibility to growcloser to God and not somebody
else, not somebody that's aleader at a church.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
I do love that.
You know, I do think that'sfunny because I'm always telling
my kids when they get in fightswith each other, like, you are
responsible for you though.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
You know, like,
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
You took part in this in some way and you're
responsible for your ownactions.
What about you?
Like maybe, yeah, your siblinghurt you, but also like you're
responsible for you.
Like what are you going to dowith that hurt?
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
You know?
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
Interestingly enough, my next question for you
is like, so this context of thebigger passage in Colossians,
You have this imagery that isbeing used between life and
death, right?
And the old self and the newself, and it's this dramatic
transformation.
(09:24):
And then this little verse iskind of like the culmination
verse.
But before we talk about that, Iwould love to hear, I mean,
already you've talked just alittle bit about this kind of
walking away season that youhad.
Yeah.
Can you tell me more about yourpersonal story of the death to
(09:44):
life, the old self, the newself?
How have you experienced that,that you can say, hey, I
actually do want to representJesus.
I actually find this to be thehighest calling in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
Yeah, 100%.
I love that imagery of takingoff something, taking off your
old self to dying to your oldself and putting on your new
self, being born again.
And I did go through that phasewhere I was struggling with
other Christians that I wassurrounded by.
And I said, God, I'm going togive two years to this.
I'm going to dive into the word.
(10:19):
I'm going to study it as deep asI can.
And I was like, I need you toshow up.
And I moved out to Australia,actually, to join this Bible
study program where we studiedfor 12 hours a day, six days a
week, super intensive.
And being out there in the firsttwo days of just spending time
(10:39):
fully dedicated to worshipingGod and learning more about him,
my whole life changed.
And I no longer thought the waythat I used to.
I no longer had the samedesires.
I spoke different.
I listened to different music.
I hung around different people.
And that's that like, okay, thisis a new life.
(11:01):
Things are different now for me.
It doesn't mean that the oldself doesn't creep in sometimes.
I think it's an every single daywe need to die to our old self.
And we need to wake up and say,okay, I'm putting off my shame.
I'm putting off my anger and I'mputting on compassion and peace.
And I'm putting on the lifestylethat Jesus shows us to live, but
(11:24):
it is every single day.
Okay, I'm dead to that.
I'm going from glory to glorynow.
My life is continually changingfrom here on out every single
day.
And I think that only happens byspending more time in the word
and spending time in prayer andgetting to know him more and
more instead of just going tochurch on a Sunday, for
(11:45):
instance.
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
Yeah, I think it's interesting that we sort of
compartmentalize our faithsometimes.
Like, I love that you have thislike radical, like, okay, I'm
taking two years off of life andI'm going to figure it out.
And maybe not even two years offof life, but two years on,
right?
Like two years of like, I amhardcore, going to dive in.
(12:08):
This is so important that it'slife or death.
Like this is the trajectory.
Where is my life going?
Like, I mean, can you talk aboutthe trajectory of your life if
you hadn't done that maybe?
Versus, you know, where you findyourself now.
Can you even imagine?
SPEAKER_01 (12:25):
Yeah, I can't even imagine because at the moment
that I made that change, I hadjust lost my job.
I had just gotten broken upwith.
I had no money.
I was like 27 and I was notwhere I wanted to be in life.
And I was like, wow, this isawful.
Like, I don't know where thiscould go from here.
(12:46):
Like, it couldn't have gottenmuch worse for me at 27.
Obviously, now looking back atit, it's like, ah, I could have
pulled
SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
through.
Right.
But in the
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
moment, it's like life or death to you when you're
in your mid-20s.
And so where would I have been?
Who knows?
I think I would have been angryand bitter.
And I think I would have beenchasing after just personal
desires and personal success,whatever that looked like.
But I think I always had astrong root of where my morals
(13:20):
were.
And I always believed Christianbeliefs, I guess, deep down.
And I always knew and trustedthat God was good.
But I also thought that a lot ofit relied on me and all my
success relied on me.
And so that was kind of how Ireally approached life and lived
it out.
(13:40):
And I mean, yes, since then,just seeing, okay...
Now I want to help other peoplego through a similar process
that I've gone through.
And through that, I've seen Godopen door after door and
continually be transforming mylife to be more like his and
falling deeper in love withscripture and becoming more
loving to the people around meand more kind and living out the
(14:04):
fruit of the spirit in the dayto day.
And I know it's just the HolySpirit working in my life that
allows that to take place.
And I know it's possibleforever.
listening as long as we dig inand say, okay, this is where I
wanna be.
This is where Jesus is taking meand I'm along for the ride.
SPEAKER_00 (14:25):
You know, it's funny because I think for some reason,
and I don't know what it isabout us as humans, but it's
like, if I read this passage inColossians and it's like, you
know, put off anger, put offmalice, put off greed, like,
like stop doing these things.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
(14:45):
You know?
And then it's like, but behumble, be kind, be, you know,
in every action, all of yourspeech, like live this way.
And it's like, that's sooftentimes like that.
Isn't that what we want ourlives to look
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
like?
Of course.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:00):
And yet we read these things and we either
convince ourselves of one of twothings, I think.
We either convince ourselvesthat like, oh, we're doing
pretty good.
Yeah.
You know, I haven't murderedanybody this week.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or we look at that list andwe're like, that is just so out
of reach.
Yeah.
Like who even does that?
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
Yeah.
You know?
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (15:21):
And I just wonder like how...
You talked a little bit aboutthe Holy Spirit, but can you,
can you like nail that down alittle bit for us?
Like, how do we actually dothis?
Because I mean, I remember, sohere's the crazy thing.
When I was not a Christian,somebody gave me a Bible and I
started reading it and Iremember thinking like, I wish I
could be like this, but thetruth is like, this is so
(15:44):
impossible.
Like, I remember just thinking,gosh, this is, this is like the
best thing.
worst book I've ever readbecause it's like, it's like,
here's this unattainableperfection that you would love
for your life to look like.
And yet again, it'sunattainable.
So there you have it.
So like, how do we go from thisdeath to life or this like
inability to even live this wayto this, like, like obviously
(16:08):
we're being called to live thisway.
So the expectation is that wecan like somehow.
SPEAKER_01 (16:13):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah, I mean, that's the HolySpirit working in you.
Paul says that the fruit of theSpirit is love and joy and peace
and patience and kindness andgoodness and faithfulness and
self-control.
And so those are all things thatare the fruit of our lives as we
grow closer to him.
(16:33):
So if we look back a year fromright now, our lives should be
more joyful, loving, kind,peaceful, if the Holy Spirit is
truly moving within us.
And how do we get closer to him?
I love back then...
To follow a rabbi meant that youwould leave everything behind
(16:53):
and you would eat with yourrabbi, you would drink with your
rabbi, you would walk with them,you would sit under their
teaching, you would sleep bythem.
Your entire life was dedicatedto life with your rabbi.
And for us, our rabbi is Jesus.
And I don't think that that'svery common for a lot of people
to think, okay, this is whatdiscipleship is, to truly sit
(17:17):
under the rabbi and live fullydedicated to learning about him
and transforming our lives to bea reflection of him.
And I think if we switch ourmentality of discipleship is
mentorship to discipleship issomething that we are under him,
Jesus as our rabbi, I think itwould make us a lot more
(17:39):
encouraged to dig deeper withhim and realize that it's a full
life transformation, that ourdesires should be his and we
want to become a reflection ofhim in all that we do.
So I love just that.
different imagery there.
And by doing so, by spendingmore time with him, I think
that's where the fruit reallycomes out of us.
(18:02):
And it says they'll know us byour fruit and our love for
others.
And as believers, we should beproducing good fruit.
And if we're producing, if we'resaying that we're believers and
we're producing bad fruit,there's an issue there.
And I think you need to figureout what the root of that is.
Because Our fruit should belove, joy, peace, patience,
(18:25):
kindness, goodness, gentleness,faithfulness, and self-control.
And that happens by going fromglory to glory, being
transformed to be closer toJesus through the Holy Spirit in
our lives.
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of what Jesus says
about, I'm the vine and you arethe branches, whoever abides in
me.
Yeah.
And whoever abides in my word,he says.
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
You know, like this concept of an I in him, whoever
abides in me, an I in him, likethe Holy Spirit is in us, and
yet we are in his word.
And it's this like, it's almostlike one of those like really
bizarre Matryoshka dolls, youknow?
It's just like multiple stackingdolls where you're like, Jesus
(19:11):
is in me.
I am in his word.
He is in me.
I am in him.
He's in the Father, but I'm inhim.
So am I in the Father?
I think I am, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (19:17):
Yes, literally.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
But I mean, it's just like
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
to
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
understand our, like if you think about it in all of
those ways, it's like we are sointerconnected with Jesus.
And I love that rabbi picture oflike sleeping next to him, being
in his presence, eating withhim.
And yet, you know, when Jesusleaves the earth, he says, I'm
(19:45):
going away and it's going to bebetter for you.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
It's
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
better if I send the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
Totally, right?
Like, okay, if that's true, thenit should impact our lives in
some way.
SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
Absolutely.
I mean, like the Holy Spirit,God himself indwelling us is
better than us being like one ofthe 12 disciples hanging out
with Jesus.
And I think sometimes we havelike the reverse in our minds of
like, oh, wouldn't it be awesomeif Jesus were just right here
with me?
And it's like, no, he's not justright here with you.
He's like right here.
(20:18):
In you.
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Way bigger of a deal.
SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
Way bigger of a
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
deal.
You no longer need to go to thetemple to worship him and to sit
in his presence.
Now the Holy Spirit, hispresence is inside of you and
everywhere you go is like you'rebringing the temple there.
You're bringing God to thatarea.
You're bringing heaven to earthin every single area you go
because the Holy Spirit isinside of you.
(20:43):
That's a major deal.
People would travel from allover the world just to go and be
in his presence.
And now we can sit in hispresence in Minnesota and
Alabama and Missouri andCalifornia and China.
Like everywhere else, you cansit in his presence now today
(21:03):
because of the Holy Spirit.
That's a way bigger deal thananything we could have ever
imagined.
SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
When was the last time you saw someone fall in
love with God's work for thefirst time?
These days, it's easy to scrollthrough our phones and harder to
slow down with scripture,especially for new believers.
That's why the easy Bible studymethod from Coffee and Bible
Time is such a gift.
Guys, I love the ladies overthere at Coffee and Bible Time,
and they've developed a simplefour-step framework to help
(21:33):
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So whether you're walkingalongside someone who's new to
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engage God's word for yourself,this is a tool worth using.
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do the same.
(21:53):
The EZ Method helps make thispossible.
You can grab a copy of the EZBible Study Method from Moody
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There's a link in our shownotes.
And don't just read it alone.
Open your Bible, invite afriend, and let the word of God
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I want to tell you about a newBible that's out from Crossway.
(22:14):
It's called the One Story Bible,and it shows how the entire
Bible is one story about God'splan to redeem the world through
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It has conversational commentaryfrom Pastor Greg Gilbert woven
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This Bible helps readers,whether new or seasoned, see how
every part of Scripture fitstogether and points to Jesus.
(22:37):
I wonder if there's a person inyour life who needs a Bible like
this.
We'll be right back.
(23:11):
How does that become mundane tous?
Do you know what I mean?
Like, and I think we all gothrough these like fluctuations
of like, I'm feeling it.
It's awesome.
And then we go through thesevalleys where we're like, I
think the Lord is punishing me.
Like, what did I, you know,where did you go, Lord?
But can you talk to that alittle bit, like maybe from your
(23:33):
own life experience of like, youknow, like we know that this is
true.
I mean, I think if you've been aChristian for any length of
time, you can say, yeah, theHoly Spirit dwells in me.
And yet there are times when wesay it with gusto because we're
like, yes.
And then there are times whenwe're like, I am saying that,
but I'm doubting the words thatI'm saying out loud.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
Yeah, I think it comes down to building proper
habits and having our livesdedicated to scripture and
prayer and worship.
Because if we aren't growingtowards something and growing
closer to something, we'redrifting apart.
And that's the same formarriages, relationships, and
(24:13):
our relationship with God.
If we aren't growing closer tohim, we're automatically
drifting apart from him.
So we need to learn to cravehim.
And so maybe that's That meansthat you need to switch up your
typical routine.
If you've read the Bible thesame way for the last 20 years
and you're like, yeah, yeah,yeah, I've heard these stories,
(24:35):
but I'm reading it just becauseI need to read it, switch it up.
read it in three months, read itin 30 days, like spend more time
in prayer, change your prayertime from just talking to now
spending time listening andjournaling what you hear him say
to you, like switch it up insome way.
(24:55):
And then I think another hugething like we see in this verse
is gratitude.
Gratitude is the most importantthing for our mindset and for
our lifestyle.
If we learn how to be gratefulto God for everything, it'll
impact the way we view all oflife.
The Jewish way of looking atgratitude is that you thank God
(25:19):
a hundred times a day for allthe blessings that he's given
you.
Not in like a spiritual blessingthing, but like, thank you for
this water, Lord.
Thank you for ears to hear thispodcast.
Thank you for feet to stand onas I walk to make myself a
sandwich later.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
(25:39):
And I think if we learn to shiftour heart to be from a place of
gratitude and seeing Godeverywhere, it's going to change
our interactions with himbecause now we're inviting him
into our mundane and hispresence is going to fill every
single room we enter, the carthat we drive, wherever we are,
(25:59):
his presence is going to be withus because we're always thinking
about him and he's on the top ofour minds.
And so I think gratitude is notin like a thank you universe for
all these things, but thank youGod for all of these blessings.
Literally believing, deep downbelieving that every single
blessing, everything thathappens in our life happens
(26:22):
because of him.
And by doing so, oh my goodness,then every single day you're
experiencing him instead of juston Sunday.
And even like going to churchjust on Sunday is such a funny
thing.
I read this article about thisstudy that was done where if you
just go to church on Sunday, notmuch happens in your life.
(26:43):
If you read the Bible twice aweek, not much happens in your
life.
If you read the Bible threetimes a week, not much happens
in your life.
But if you read the Bible fourtimes a week, you wouldn't
believe the change of people,like less anxiety, less
depression, more joy.
The list goes on and on aboutall of the benefits of daily
(27:08):
spending time in God's word, inhis presence, and trying to find
a way how to bring him into ourday-to-day mundane things.
In the West, we have a veryGnostic mindset often, even
though it's a bad thing, Ithink, where it's like, okay,
physical stuff is bad andspiritual stuff is good.
(27:30):
But for Paul and Jesus and theHebrew mindset, it was that all
of life is actually spiritual.
So if I'm an author, it's aspiritual job.
If I'm sending emails, I can doit in a spiritual way that
honors God.
If I'm cooking dinner for mywife, I can do it in a way that
(27:53):
honors God and invites him intoit.
And I think by By learning toshift that mindset to see
things, okay, all of this can beused for God.
All of my words, all of mydeeds, everything, my job, my
relationships, if I can use themto glorify God and to bring him
into my situation, then I thinkyour life is just gonna be
(28:14):
filled with so much more hopeand joy and love and you're
gonna experience him more thanjust being stuck in the mundane
of the day-to-day.
SPEAKER_00 (28:24):
Yeah.
Isn't that funny though?
Because it's like what hasactually shifted is nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:31):
Like your physical reality hasn't changed.
The house you live in, the jobthat you have, the relationship,
none of that is shifted.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Yeah.
Mindset.
SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
At all.
It's all about like that, likeinviting Jesus into, like I love
that idea of inviting Jesus intoyour mundane.
SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
Yeah.
It's like, how cool is it tofold the laundry with the Lord?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
And how...
tedious is it to not
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
yeah 100%
SPEAKER_00 (28:56):
and it sounds so goofy doing the exact same thing
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
doing the exact same
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
thing right and yet somehow you're like lord thank
you for this pair of socks oryou know I mean like
SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
I guarantee people that hear that are going to be
like, that is so lame.
I'm not going to do that.
But I promise you, if you do,literally as you're doing
laundry, like, thank you, Lord,for these clothes.
Thank you for a washing machinein my home so I didn't have to
leave today and I can spend moretime in your presence.
Things like that, as goofy andas like, woo-woo spiritual as it
(29:29):
may sound, it's so applicableand it will completely change
your heart posture and who youbecome as a person, I think.
SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
Yeah, 100% because it's like the things that would
be interruptions becomeopportunities.
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
I love that.
The things that are difficult,again, they're opportunities.
It's like opportunities for theLord to be a part of this thing
that I'm doing right now insteadof me just on my own ho-hum
doing my thing and go to churchon Sunday.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
You know?
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:03):
Okay.
Well, I want to get to thisconcept of word and deed that
we're talking about in thisverse because I think that that
sometimes, just like what youwere talking about with like the
way that we, like the Gnosticidea that we have in Western
culture, we have this, at leastin Western Christianity, a lot
(30:26):
of times a separation of wordand deed historically in the
church where it's like, oh,well, that's one of those
churches that does a lot ofthings.
Or that's one of those churchesthat preaches the word really
well.
And I think that we as humans,just as individuals, I think we
have a tendency to be like,well, I really know a lot.
(30:49):
So I feel comfortable sharing myfaith with people.
But I don't know that I feelcomfortable serving in a soup
kitchen.
You know, or whatever.
And not that it has to be thosetwo kind of extreme versions of
word and speech of like, andtalking about Jesus and being
Jesus's hands.
SPEAKER_01 (31:07):
But
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
in all, again, in all of those mundane things, how
do we love him?
Is it possible even to separatethose two?
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
Yeah, I think they go hand in hand all the time.
My father-in-law says, your mostvaluable asset is your word.
And I think by being true toyour word and actually living it
out.
So when you say something,actually doing it, it invites
trust into the relationship.
And if people trust you, they'regoing to listen to you.
(31:40):
And so, yeah, maybe you are aperson that loves to just share
the word, but your lifestyle oryour actions may not be a
reflection of it.
Or maybe you just serve peopleand give, but you never share
the word.
I think both are...
there needs to be a shift there.
(32:00):
I think there needs to be achange because our lives need to
be both.
Jesus would preach and he wouldact.
He would perform miracles.
The early church would performmiracles and then they would
preach the gospel.
And so for us today, it's like,yeah, wow, Lord, you use me in
some way physically and thenopen up the door for me to share
(32:21):
my faith from there.
I think for non-believers,especially like our testimony
and what God has done in ourlives, is the greatest way to
share our faith.
So just sharing how God hasmoved in your life, not being
super pushy, but loving in youractions and saying, hey, this is
why I'm doing what I'm doing.
(32:42):
This is how my life has changed.
And I think that alone is gonnabe so attractive to people that
it's gonna draw them in more andmore to wanna have what you
already have.
SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Well, and I think going back to kind of where we
started about, making our faithsomething that is winsome and
simple to people.
Like if we're living this way,isn't that just naturally going
to like draw people in and belike, well, that person is just
(33:15):
different.
You know that.
I mean, like I can think ofpeople that, like I find out
later, I'm like, oh, I figuredyou were a Christian.
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
Yeah, for sure.
A hundred
SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
percent.
You know, where it's like, Idon't know when I first meet
you, like that, that's what you,like how, who you are or
whatever.
But like, it, it sometimes isjust like, you can't hide it.
Like you can't hide the factthat you're a Christian.
I could tell right away, youknow, like I wish that people
would say that about me.
And it's not just because I findout like I'm married to a
pastor, but like, you know,like, What is it about the
(33:49):
presence of you coming into acoffee shop or doing your
groceries, shopping, or whateverit is that brings, like,
bringing Jesus with you?
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
You know, in your word and in your speech, like,
or in your actions, like, whatare we communicating?
And not to be...
I don't want people feeling badout there.
SPEAKER_01 (34:17):
Yeah, of course not.
SPEAKER_00 (34:18):
Right?
Like, I don't even know.
Like, and some people probablylike this, this crazy people
right now talking about thesethings.
But, but, and I, you know, Ithink that there, there have
been like these, these examplesof people who are like, you
know, handing out tracks atevery restaurant they go to and
stuff like that.
And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonnabash on that.
(34:38):
I know some really genuinelysweet people who do that.
And I'm like, and that's, that'syou, dog.
For
SPEAKER_01 (34:43):
sure.
SPEAKER_00 (34:44):
Yeah.
But what is it that we can do,you know, and maybe this is just
like a question to leave hangingin the air.
It's like, what is one way thatI can live this verse out?
Yeah.
As me, Natalie Abbott, or you,Zach, like, what, you know, how
do we, how do we apply this, youknow, in a way that's genuine to
(35:09):
us?
SPEAKER_01 (35:11):
I think a lot of people don't understand what the
gospel of Jesus is.
So gospel isn't a Christianword.
It didn't come from the Bible.
Julius Caesar had a gospel.
Alexander the Great had agospel.
It was a way of talking aboutwhat life was gonna be like
under a change of leadership.
(35:32):
So now that the Romans are incharge, The gospel message was,
this is what life is going to belike for you under Roman rule.
So now you have Jesus coming inand saying, okay, this is what
life under my kingdom is.
What life with me as king islike.
People are going to be healed.
(35:53):
People are going to be forgiven.
There's going to be peace.
There's going to be wholeness.
Sins are going to be wipedclean.
There's going to be repentancefrom you.
And so for us looking, okay,That's what the gospel is.
That's what we're signing upfor.
Life under his kingdom isactually so much better.
(36:13):
I think if we understand howmuch better life is under his
kingdom, it'll change the waythat we live our lives and
realize that, man, he's using usto spread the kingdom all over
the world.
That's a huge deal.
Like right now, we're supposedto be praying.
for heaven to come to earth andeverything that we do that's in
(36:35):
obedience to him, we're bringingthe gospel one inch closer to
what it's going to eventuallybe.
That's a major deal.
Fearing God and obeying hiscommands is literally what we
should live our entire livesbased around because it's what's
going to bring the kingdom outinto the world.
(36:55):
And he wants to partner with us.
And how incredible is that?
That God, the creator of theuniverse, wants to partner with
you and I to help bring hiskingdom here because we believe
that it's better than what theworld is telling us the kingdom
is supposed to be.
Incredible.
So praise God for that.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
No, it is literally unbelievable.
There are times when I'm just inawe if I really think about it.
I get to represent God in theworld, in my speech and in my
actions.
It's kind of like whether I likeit or not.
(37:36):
Going back to that idea of thesequote-unquote bad Christians and
church hurt and whatever, it'slike whether you like it or not,
SPEAKER_01 (37:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
If you say you are a Christian, you are like Christ
is in the name Christian.
Like you are representing Jesus.
For
SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
sure.
Absolutely.
That's a big deal.
SPEAKER_00 (37:55):
It's a big deal.
It's a big deal.
It is.
And it's like, is it going to beokay?
But again, it's like the Lordhas equipped us.
SPEAKER_01 (38:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
He himself in us.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (38:09):
Y'all got this.
Yeah.
Y'all got this.
All right.
Well, Zach, Honestly, I wouldlove to keep talking because
this has just been so good formy soul.
Come on.
But I just want to leave justwith our listeners in mind.
You've been listening to us kindof gush a little bit, get real
(38:29):
pumped up.
But what about the person who'slistening to this who's at that
space where they're like, Idon't know.
I don't know.
Either I don't know that Ieven...
can believe this or
SPEAKER_01 (38:44):
yeah
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
or if this could be true for me yeah or if they're
just like this is all new anywaywhat would you say kind of to
close out for for that personwho's listening to this and and
like what does it really mean toto yeah for Jesus and and and
how do I how do I actually dothat
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
Totally, I think you need to look at the Bible and
zoom out from it and see it froma big picture perspective and
see it from a historicalperspective and how this is your
ancestors now and this is wherewe're heading in the world and
this is what you're signing upfor.
But so often for us, it can belike, hey, just read your Bible.
But that doesn't do a lot ofgood most of the time if you
(39:25):
don't know the context ofthings.
So I think zoom out, learn itfrom a big picture And by doing
so, you're going to see, okay,this is what it means to be a
Christian and to represent Jesusin all that I do.
And yeah, I am signing up for itbecause I believe it's the right
way.
I believe it's where the worldis heading.
And I believe that by doing so,he's going to use me to help
(39:48):
bring the kingdom to myneighborhood and to my
relationships.
And we get to work together.
How fun is that?
You get to wake up every morningand say, Holy Spirit, use me
today.
In whatever way that means, useme today.
And I think your life will turninto an adventure and you're
(40:08):
joining into a pretty crazyride.
SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
I feel like that's a very accurate description.
It is a crazy ride.
It's a crazy ride.
Um, it's the best ride.
It's the best ride.
You know, it's funny.
I was talking with, um, somegals on my team today.
We were talking about, um,having kids and I was like, it's
the best and the worst.
Like it's the best becausethere's all these things.
And then it's the worst becauseit's like, these are, these are
(40:34):
the hearts, like, like nothingreally worthwhile.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:38):
isn't also going to be really hard at times.
So it is a crazy ride.
Like there's going to be, Jesussays, you know, pick up your
cross and follow me.
SPEAKER_00 (40:45):
So they're like, it's not all going to be
rainbows and puppy dogs, butyou're always going to be with
Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
He's there.
He's there.
All right.
Well, Zach, thank you so much.
Guys who are listening, we haveall the things in the show notes
about Zach.
If you want to read through theBible and do it in a simple way,
He's got you.
So we're going to have that linkin there and all of his stuff.
Zach, thank you so much forjoining me today and for being
willing to talk about thisverse.
(41:14):
And if you guys want more, youjust have to look it up because
if you want more about his book,he didn't talk about it on this
podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (41:21):
Exactly.
Exactly.
We're here for the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
Yes.
Amen.
Oh, thank you so
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
much.
This was an honor.
Incredible.
Really appreciate
SPEAKER_00 (41:28):
it.
Me too.
Thanks.
Okay, don't hit fast forwardbecause you're going to want to
hear this.
And I am just barely containingmy excitement.
We have our warehouse sale,which is our biggest sale of the
year.
This August, the 18th throughthe 29th, we do it once a year
and we sell all kinds of stuff.
(41:49):
We open up the vaults and wehave old verses.
We have key tags, tattoos, andverse cards that you can buy
separately, which we never sell.
We have massively discountedverse kits for gifts that you
can stock up on for retreats,your Bible study, your church,
bingo.
We'll be right back.
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