Episode 406: 📈 The Evolution of Marketing in the AI Era 📉

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to another episode of Dynamics
Corner.
What is thought leadership?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Brad, I'm your co-host, Chris, and this is Brad
.
This episode was recorded onFebruary 5th 2025.
Chris, Chris, Chris, what isthought leadership?
That's an interesting questionand with that question comes an
interesting conversation.
We had the opportunity to speakwith a wonderful member of the
community that has a lot ofexperience and knowledge about
thought leadership and manyother topics conversation.
We had the opportunity to speakwith a wonderful member of the
community that has a lot ofexperience and knowledge about

(00:27):
thought leadership and manyother topics.
With us today.
We had the opportunity to speakwith John Rivers.
Good morning, sir.

(00:54):
How are you?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
doing.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Morning.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
John, doing good, doing good.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Excellent, excellent.
I'm looking forward to speakingwith you.
Thank you for taking the timeto talk with us.
I love the bus, the Volkswagen.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
I love the Volkswagen to myself.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Do you have one of those?

Speaker 3 (01:15):
I don't have the bus.
It's on the list to get at somepoint.
But I do have an old Volkswagencar.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh, nice, nice.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yep, I have a convertible common gear.
Wow common, common deer, commongear oh, let me see see if I
can get a rough idea.
Hang on a second.
You don't see the, but thatwill give you sort of, maybe, an
idea.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
See, I could picture John cruising the beach.
Yeah, top down, cruising thebeach, palm trees, it's like the
Volkswagen bus and it's nice.
Yep, yeah, definitely that'sthe way to live.
That's the way to live.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know it's interesting, that Volkswagen bus
right there when I bought thishouse, when I was going through,
you know, the whole place right.
And then there's a shop.
And when I went through theshop I was like man, this is
amazing, I'm excited becausethere's a shop for me.
And then I went to go look,there was a covered car vehicle.

(02:17):
At that time I didn't know whatit was.
I pulled it down just to lookat a peek.
You know, I'm sure that theowner would have said no, but I
took a peek anyway and it was ared Volkswagen bus.
I thought it was gonna comewith the house.
I actually asked for it.
Hey, does this come with thehouse?
And he goes.
Oh, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
I don't think someone would remodel that thing from
scratch.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
It's like okay.
That's like are sure, I wastrying to haggle the guy to see
if he'll leave it.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Depends on what it is .
Some of the buses nowadays canbe pretty expensive.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yes, I'm sure it was pristine.
They should bring them back.
They do, they are bringing themback.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
They have.
They've brought back an IDwhich is sort of an electric bus
.
You either love them or youhate them.
If you're a Volkswagen fan,you're either one side.
You're not in between.
It's a hate or a like.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
They have the electric version.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Bratz, that's all it is.
Yeah, yeah, the electric.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I'd have to try it.
I'm stuck on the Teslas at thispoint just maybe because I
haven't driven any otherelectric vehicles.
Maybe I should try some of theother electric vehicles to see
how they work.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, I mean the bus is I don't know, it's all full
electric.
I mean my daughter is my olderdaughter loves hanging out when
I go to the meets and stuff andactually wants an old bus.
She said why would I pay like$70,000, $80,000 to get an
electric bus and it doesn't lookthat great, where I could have
an older one and probably haveit all totally done out and for

(03:58):
less money?

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I'd want a bus with one of the campers at the top,
like the whatever they pop up orwhatever they call Vehicles
back then, so much differentthan they are today.
But, mr Johnstarr, weappreciate you taking the time
to speak with us.
Been looking forward to it, asI had mentioned.
Before we jump into theconversation, would you mind
telling us a little bit aboutyourself?

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Who am I?
Who am I?
Well, I'm John Rivers.
I co-own a marketing companycalled Marketeery with my
business partner, diane Sager.
We focus on the ERP and CRMside of the fence.
When it comes to marketing,we're a full-blown agency.

(04:41):
We help from everything frommessaging, websites, seo,
content, development, all thosethings that's.
That's a little bit about,should we say, the business side
, which, hey, I'm not going totry to talk too much more about
that.
People can work it out, what wedo and who we are myself
personally and I'm going to givebecause I know you said to me
this could be as long as itneeds to be but, um, I think I

(05:04):
was on another podcast and it'slike okay, let me, let me give
you a little bit of history.
Where did I start?
Where did I come from?
Um, I'm actually.
I actually trained as adeveloper and probably a lot of
people don't, some peopleprobably starting to get that
but I actually trained as adeveloper.
I trained on cobalt assemblyand I didn't do too much on

(05:28):
pascal, but I did a little biton that, some c++.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
That's where I started and I realized quickly
that that was not what I wanteda little fun fact pascal is
where I got started as well, butI did take assembly language
and cobalOL in school when I wasgrowing up.
Right.
So, Chris, do you rememberthose languages?

Speaker 1 (05:51):
That's how I started is actually COBOL.
I worked in a data center andtheir whole thing was on COBOL.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
And I got introduced to that.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
I'm like ooh and then I moved on.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Assembly was great with the move and the shift and
keeping track of that.
That was all.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, I had some fun when I was doing a work
experience when I was at schooland I ended up going into a
company that actually builtbasically the navigation devices
for boats more personal boatsand stuff like that and they
just let me loose on playingaround with the assembly because

(06:30):
that's what they were using toactually control the controls.
They said do what you want,build your own device and write
your own code.
So that was a lot of fun backthen.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to cut you off.
We can continue with who youare.
You struck a nostalgic momentfor me.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
No, it's actually.
I'd add to that.
It's like, yes, I may begetting older, but at the same
time I think my college was alittle bit behind at the time.
So if I'd been one year earlierin college it would have been
punch tape that's going to showyou back.
Thank God it would have beenpunch tape that's gonna show you
.
Thank god I didn't have to dopunch tape, because that would
have been a nightmare.
I know a friend of mine whoactually did do it and it simply

(07:11):
wasn't fun.
Um, roll forward.
Um, I actually got more intoconsulting.
That's where I started really.
Um, I actually work for acompany that specialized in
fonts.
That's where I probably got alittle bit of my design concept.
But I actually ran a divisionthat actually created fonts and

(07:33):
if anyone remembers the days oflaser printers, we used to have
a cartridge that used to plug inwith fonts.
If anyone remembers that, wewere the main supplier of those
cartridges around the world.
So, yeah, so we were the oneswho actually did all that
development, put them togetheranyway.

(07:55):
Roll forward from there.
I continued consulting.
I actually got more into the Iwould say the ERP side of the
fence.
So it was more consulting atthat time it was JD Edwards.
We I was working for an ISV atthat time that had a solution
that bolted on to JD Edwards.

(08:15):
World software stayed with themthrough their one world and she
was, like I said, consulting,did some help desk.
I then migrated over to the USbecause I was asked to come over
and actually help run theirEast Coast division, run all the
consulting and help desk team,which is what I did and just

(08:37):
kept on doing that.
And then suddenly we wentthrough the time where
PeopleSoft decided they weregoing to buy JD Edwards but then
Oracle came in and squashedeverything and that really
killed pretty much killed thebusiness we were in.
It just changed everything.
I mean, we still kept going butwe knew we had to find another

(08:59):
ERP and that's where Microsoftcame into it and I was part of a
team that actually went out tostart investigating and then
actually helped the dev team orwhat dev team?
Actually it wasn't even a devteam, it was one guy that was
part-time given to me.
We had to go out and try tointegrate.
First of all we were looking atGP or Great Plains as it was

(09:22):
back then, but instead I said,look, that's not going to work
for us.
It's too low.
It's too low price.
We ended up working with XaptaGood old.
Xapta.
Wow, xapta 2.5 is where I'vestarted changing my tune of how
long I've been in the industry.
I'm going to do it by versionsof software now.
So I hit the dynamic space inZapda 2.5.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
See great minds think alike, because this is what I
say to everybody that Microsoftchanges the names of the
products on purpose.
Because that's how you know howlong someone has been working
in that space.
Because if you call it Navision, we know that you started back
when Navision was popularMicrosoft Dynamics Nav.
If you look at all the namesthat space because if you call
it Navision, we know that youstarted back when Navision was

(10:06):
popular Microsoft Dynamics Navif you look at all the names
that change Yammer becomes Veeva, engage, entra ID was Active
Directory.
So whomever's speaking, I havea sense of okay, so you've been
working this long with theproduct, so I like that
philosophy.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah, so that's where I'm gonna go, because maybe it
seems like I'm not as old as Iam.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Well, you're talking punch tapes.
I'm sorry, that gives it away.
I'm not trying to to sayanything without saying anything
, but the reality is, I thinkmaybe I should keep that one out
of the conversation next time.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
Um, so with that we we worked, I worked on it, got
into, also bought a little bitof my dev experience in it,
worked with them.
I actually did write some X++back then was actually
implementing.
I could even implement.
Back then I could implementXaptor no issues myself, Got
that solution into themarketplace, actually built it

(11:04):
out, got more into pre-salesworking with the partners as we
were trying to onboard that intothe partners.
For anyone that wants to knowwhat was that product, it was
actually originally calledCrateform, which was then taken
over by Bottom Line Technologieslater on.
So I continued working on that,really staying in consulting,

(11:25):
implementation, pre-sales.
I started to realize I reallywant to get into managing the
partners.
I was sort of doing it but Iwas not doing it.
Should we say it wasn't myofficial job?
So I actually left that ISV andjoined another ISV called Data
Mations.
Some people may know who theyare.
I was probably I think I wastalking about like the 23rd

(11:49):
employee when I joined them.
I joke, now I'm stillrecovering.
I think I've nearly recoveredfrom all the EDI doctors.
I nearly got those out of myhead.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
EDI wow, the most standard non-standard on the
planet exactly that is true,like they say edi is a standard.
I'm gonna keep cutting you offjust because we're going down
memory lane here I don't evenknow why we use edi today in the
sense of the way edi works,because the the whole premise of

(12:22):
edi with charging by the kilocharacter and consolidation of
characters to reducetransmission, back when you had
200 baud modems like it's 2025.
I understand technology andsystems need to change, but over
the years it's still notchanged.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
It doesn't like that I mean some areas have evolved,
but it's still there.
Yeah, I's still out there.
I mean some areas have a bulb,but it's still there.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, I don't understand it.
I try but.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah.
So I joined them to actuallyhelp run their channel, so got
in.
I mean, they were a littleheavier at that time in the AX
side.
Now we're going to change thenames right, names right.
So I had she helped them buildout their division nav, ax, f&o
whatever words we're going touse that and also GP practice

(13:14):
and grew that.
I left a little bit later.
I know now that they got soldright back to SBS.
I think I was somewhere justshot they.
They were shy of about 100people when I left.
At that time I decided tochange directions.
That's when I went out into themarketing world.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
It's like so how the hell did he get from dead to?

Speaker 3 (13:36):
marketing.
I had to At Data Masons.
We didn't have.
We had a part-time marketeer.
I had to do a lot of stuffmyself, got into a lot of social
media.
It was probably the key I builtout my LinkedIn network of
massive at that point ofeveryone I could find that I
could influence to actually comeand get that product at that

(13:58):
point.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
That's interesting.
What a journey that you have.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
What a journey that you have.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
So you've been around , you've seen a lot and it is
interesting to see the shifts ofhow people get somewhere.
And I think you know, as youprogress through your career you
start off wanting to do allthat crazy coding type stuff and
then, as you get older, youwant to do other creative type
stuff that doesn't require asmuch work.
I think More relationship.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
It is.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
You know less much work, I think more relationship
it is.
You know less coding and well,I think psychologically you want
to get back, give back in asense, so you want to be able to
talk with people and helppeople and interact with people,
versus sit and just do thiscool, great build type thing.
I think as we mature andthrough life you know not to
talk about psychology, I thinksometimes I do have that.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
I sort of like think, oh, I could go back and do that
.
At the end of the day it's likeI look at I don't know, let's
just take some like a powerautomate, right, I like the
concept of that.
I think, ooh, I think I couldprobably do that, right.
But at the same time it's like,okay, I really want to get

(15:03):
delved into that again.
But I think even in oureveryday of what we do, we're
dealing with technology andmarketing.
I mean, we can put the word AIinto the conversation that's
evolving.
So I think having a technicalmind at the moment is actually
helping understand what'sevolving in there.

(15:25):
And I think you have to, inmarketing, have that mindset,
especially when you're workingwith the clients that we're
working with.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, you're utilizing a lot more technology
in the marketing space because,I mean, you've got to adjust too
right.
The industry is goingspecifically the areas of your
focus and then in having toutilize different tools to reach
the audience you're looking for, um and what you're targeting,
so that's right that must be acrazy time for you.

(15:55):
Then, with all this uh aicoming out and it's like how,
how do you, you know, how do youintegrate that with your
day-to-day stuff?

Speaker 3 (16:04):
It's challenging, right, because what you think is
today, it's not tomorrow, rightAt the end of the day, and it
keeps changing.
So, yeah, so it's finding howdo we?
I think sometimes, I think atthe early stage was like how do
we battle it?
Right, from a marketing company, because we don't want our

(16:27):
prospective customers using itto actually take away business
from us.
Right, that was probably thefirst mindset you had, and over
the time, it's like no, we'vegot to encompass it and support
it and find ways how we can useit to be more efficient, but at
the same time, be not scaredthat, hey, some of the

(16:50):
prospective people out there aregoing to be using it as well,
and that's okay.
But it's not the finished result.
I think it's going to simplifyit, right?
Yes, you may have it write ablog, but you can't just publish
that blog.
As it's right, you got to dosome work on top of that.
You got to humanize it, you'vegot to go through and make sure

(17:13):
that um ai didn't go andreference something that isn't
true.
Right at the end of the day.
It can do that and I think ifyou don't go through it and you
don't know your information, itcan really take you down the
wrong path.
So what I'm saying is we've gotto encompass it, and I'm
constantly looking at it.

(17:34):
Next week I'm going to be at theTampa local chapter meeting for
the Tampa Roadshow for DynamicsCommunities, right, and I'm
going to be talking about AIprompts for co-pilot, so we're
going to go through some of that.
So at the end of the day, I waslooking at I mean, I've done a
similar one of that sessionbefore, but I'm already starting

(17:56):
to look at it and say, okay, Iprobably need to refresh some of
those prompts, because thoseprompts back then were probably
what we thought.
But hey, we can probablytighten them up and make them
more efficient today based onwhat we've learned with
everything changing, you do haveto refresh that.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
But I think you do bring a great point in that
conversation that it's embracingtechnology and using technology
where it fits within anorganization and not feeling
like you have to use the latestand greatest all the time.
I think that's the challengewith many that I've been

(18:31):
speaking with lately.
Your point is great becauseyou're coming from the marketing
point of view and your clientbase will most likely use AI
because AI, in some fashion, iseverywhere.
So you're not going to competewith the AI, so it's embracing
the technology, incorporatinginto your workflow how you could
add the business value or thatrelationship value.

(18:54):
It goes back to what I think isa big part of this whole AI
space is the relationshipsbecome more important versus
just being able to churn outassembly line type stuff right,
I think also, I think on top ofthat as well, right, I think
it's um, what you know up hereright at the end of day, um, ai

(19:17):
doesn't?

Speaker 3 (19:17):
I mean ai only knows what it's being given.
Um, the analogy I like to useis hey, what are we coming up?
We're getting very close toApril when we're going to see
wave one right for the Dynamicsproducts come out At the end of
the day, if no one has put thatout in the interweb, how is AI

(19:37):
going to get that informationright If none of the new
features and functions which aregoing to be there have been
shared online?
And then AI has sucked that into what I like to call.
It is like it's data bank.
If it's not sucked it in, itcan't tell you anything about
wave one, the 25.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
I laugh.
It just can't.
I laugh at that because I thinkof that sometimes.
I'm like with everybody usingCopilot to generate content
right when is the point wherethere is no more content to be
used because copilot's creatingall of the content?
The new content it's, it's just, it's that you know,
never-ending cycle for me,because copilot creates more and

(20:21):
more content based on contentthat it knows, so people are
using that to publish content.
So somebody has to have theoriginal content somewhere to
put into this.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
And that's the person that's going to be out in the
front right, and I think that'sthe one that's going to change
everything, because they're theones who are writing the
original content that hasn'tbeen talked about before.
I think, over time, they're theones who are going to stand out
and be those experts.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
They have to be, because we'll have.
Yeah, unless AI starts creatingits own information.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Well, there is that.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Where it will be able to do its own tests, its own
analysis and talk to itself.
I'm waiting for the time whereI can just sit and have a
full-blown conversation with it.
I know you can do that inpartial now, but you'll never
need to leave the house.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Well, as long as it puts a paycheck in my bank
account, I don't have an issue.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, Mailbox money.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Brad.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Exactly, it's called mailbox money.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
It's a way that you get to that too.
It's a challenge.
So from the marketing point ofview, who is your target that
you market?

Speaker 3 (21:28):
What's your typical customer or target audience?
So we really focus in on erpand crm partners and isx.
That's where we've reallyfocused in, with a very strong
focus in the dynamic space.
Now, does that not include thepower platform?
Yes, it does.
It does, I think to me.
I still lump and if I'm rightor wrong, I still lump the power

(21:49):
platform into the dynamic spaceor into the ERP space, right,
and CRM, because it'sinterconnectable.
I know you could use itelsewhere, but I think that
really becomes and that's anarea that we really focus on is
the dynamic space.
I mean, most of our customersare there.
You're probably going to askwell, okay, there's a lot of
different size partners.

(22:10):
We work from all different.
I mean, for some partners whomay be small shops of a couple
people, we're their completedepartment for marketing, right,
we are their marketing team andwe do everything for them, from
their website all the waythrough their content creation
to analyzing and all that stuff,and then share that back.

(22:32):
We could go to the next stepwhere we're starting to get to a
hybrid version of that, wherewe're doing some of the work and
they have internal people thatdo some of the other work.
Or we may go to a biggerorganization where and again,
this is just a couple of newclients we took on recently
where they're breaking more andmore into the dynamic space but

(22:56):
they don't have an understandingof the products inside that
space.
They understand maybe Acumaticaor the Sage or those products.
So what we're also bringing isour understanding of how the
dynamics world is working forthem.
We bring that into the equationbecause we have a deep

(23:18):
understanding based on ourhistory of the ecosystem.
So again, if you go back, I canlean on if we're working with
an ISV.
I can lean on how we built someof our relationships with
partners.
We can actually help them in amarketing way.
How are we going to market towe're a new ISV in the space?

(23:39):
What do we do to get that ISVproduct into the partner
community?
We know that because we've doneit.
I probably should add into mybusiness partner Diane Sager.
She has got a good history aswell.
I mean she was actually withWestern Computers, western
Computer way back in time whenthey were a small shop and

(24:02):
helped them build up.
She was actually their VP ofsales and marketing back then
and helped them grow.
And now I mean they're a bigship out there, right there.
They're one of the cruiseliners which are going around
picking up clients.
And then later on she ended upgoing and working for jet
reports as they're working onthe marketing team, so I think

(24:26):
she was VP of marketing for them.
So again, and she was therethrough that they already had
good growth.
But she was there when theywent through the growth of
getting their product JetReportsas an inside the NAV product at
the time and then justsnowballed from there.
So again, a lot of experiencefrom the community we can get

(24:49):
into the community side.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Definitely want to get into the community side.
That was the perfect lead-in towhat I wanted to ask you about.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah.
So the community comes a bigplay into us being right.
So again, I think that givesyou an idea of probably our
ideal customer.
I think it's really down to, atthe end of the day, if you're
struggling with the eco becauseyou don't know it and you need
content, we help a lot with that.
If you're new to space, or evenif you've been out there is

(25:19):
making sure you're messagingright.
So we went through a good phasewhere we still do it's like
where and we still I probablylaugh about this.
Sometimes there's still a lotof partners out there.
You go to their websites and itfeels like they're still trying
to sell on prep.
They're not talking anything todo with cloud right.
We can see some smiles thereand at the end of the day, we're

(25:42):
there.
We're helping those partnertransition themselves to that
different messaging that needsto be done for the client.
So we go through a lot of thatwith partners as well and it's
still happening today.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
I think messaging is extremely important.
I'd love to get into thecommunity because I know you've
been a big part of the communityas well too.
The community as well too.
But to bring back, I understandnow the focus of your marketing
is you help individualsprimarily partners or ISVs be
able to market the product thatthey're the product suite.
I will say that they're lookingto work with to their target

(26:16):
audience.
And it does become moreimportant now because I think,
generationally, the targetaudience of their customers is
different, because people now doa lot of research before they
reach out, whereas before it wasChris, I'm looking to do an ERP

(26:40):
software product, what do youhave for me?
And then Chris would wouldexplain business central,
demonstrate business central,sell business central, where now
I'm seeing the shift of hey,chris, I'm buying business
central, what can you do for me?
yeah, it's to me it seems to bethere's a shift of mentality, of
approach with the decisionmakers.

(27:00):
With all the information that'savailable online even more so
with ai goes to your point, tohaving the proper message out
there that a lot of the researchis already done beforehand and
what somebody is really lookingfor is the relationship to help
guide them through the journey.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
I 100% agree with that, but at the same time,
getting that messaging correctright, because, yes, we, we go
back.
But I think the ERP let's justtalk ERP, right.
Erp space is so much morecrowded today than it was even
10 years ago or 20 years ago.
Right, you could probably kept.
I mean, I'm gonna get beaten uphere, I know well, but you

(27:41):
probably could hypotheticallycount the number of ERP systems
on one hand.
Right Now.
You probably need your hands,your feet and God knows what
else, because at the end of theday, there are folks out there
and we could probably say, okay,yes, it might be BC under the
hood, but they're not promotingit as BC, they're promoting it
as a vertical product.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Correct, yes, which?

Speaker 3 (28:01):
makes it look like there's even more ERP solutions.
See, EDI came into it, but ERPsolutions.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
I sense your trauma.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
So, at the end of the day, it's still.
It gets complicated.
So, at the end of the day, it'show do we get out there in
front of the noise, right?
But I think you're right there,brad.
There is so much opportunityfor researching now that the
buyer is a lot more intelligentabout where they're going to go.
And let's roll it back to AI.
Ai is even going to play intothat as well, right?

(28:34):
I just wrote an article abouthey partners and ISVs.
Are you starting to think abouthow do you get yourself as a
source on AI?
Right?
Because it comes back withsources.
You've got to start looking atit, because that's going to
change the search process aswell over the next few years.
I mean, I know from default onmy machine when I go to search,

(28:55):
it doesn't default to Google orBing, it defaults to an AI tool
for search.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yep and then from there.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
And a lot of us.
Then, from there, the, the, wecould go off on a tangent
forever.
What time is this?
But it's true, and I I listenedto some podcasts obviously I
listened to this one sometimesas well, and it it is changing.
It's you.
You now search, even if you go,even if you do go, to Google,
you search for something.

(29:25):
It gives you a summary at thetop and then you find the
sources, where, and then it'llalso list the pages.
But I use that more now as I'llread the summary, see the
points, see the sources and then, based on the point that it
shows me or the paragraph thatit gets from the source, I'll
click that source link Versus.
Sometimes I will scroll down ifthe information that I have

(29:48):
isn't quite what I was lookingfor, for whatever reason, which
again could be the way that I'msearching.
Not to say that the tool is notproper, it's did I use the tool
properly and I'll see the link.
But most of my searches, thesources that I go to, will come
from that top bracket, bracket,or even typing into Copilot a
question and it will give mesome sources.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
The behaviors change right, not just from a client
side, but also from partners.
Like you said, john, you'rehaving maybe smaller partners
that wants to get into the space, or an ISV that's getting into
space.
You're guiding them through notonly from your experience, but
what you're also seeing from thebehavior of like, how prospects

(30:33):
are now looking at buying asolution, and so it's really
more important than ever to usedata behind that using and from
your gathering data in terms oflike, the behavior of how people
now buy products.
It's certainly shifted um inthe last at least the last five

(30:54):
years of how this ecosystem ofexample business central is
change, because now you haveyour marketplace right, your app
source, and that's how peoplebuy stuff and how do you market
that and how do you?
How do you target thoseprospects there's so many moving
pieces that you have toconsider.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
It's like, yeah, I mean, there's so many different
places you could be.
It's like, well, okay, where dowe start when we only have this
small of a budget, right, andit's just doing it through a
piece?
I mean we're working withMicrosoft and a well-known
distributor at the moment on alot of migration, so helping

(31:35):
partners with that migrationfrom either GP and or SL or NAV
to BC, because that's a big areathat Microsoft is focused on.
So there's funding that we getthat helps the partners.
We're working through thatdistributor to actually help
with that migration.
So making sure that we'rewriting content that actually

(31:57):
starts to bring that partnerthat really, in some cases, has
not been doing any marketing forthe last X number of years now
trying to bring them to theforefront or at least try to
focus on that.
They've got a group ofcustomers themselves.
How do we get those pulled over?
We've got to put stuff asidepublicly but we're really using

(32:18):
that to actually talk to theirexisting customer base.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofmoving parts and I think, again,
we could pull this back as well.
To like the community it's likebeing so entrenched in the
community.
We get to hear because we'reworking every day.
Yes, we're hearing what thecustomers we're seeing what's
working, but we're alsoentrenched in the community,

(32:41):
which gives us a good feel ofwhat is happening.
It's like, hey, I mean, I'vetalked to you guys, but at the
same time, what are you seeingright?
Okay, do we not that we want tosteal and take away what's been
successful for you guys?
But how can we?
Because at the end of the day,it's how can we maybe take
advantage of some of that ideasand bring that in?

(33:02):
But the bottom line is that themore that we can make if we're
focused on dynamics, the morethat we make dynamics the number
one, it's going to helpeveryone.
Even if we hypotheticallystolen an idea that someone else
is finding successful, that'shelping in the long run.
It's not stealing.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
It's not Well.
There's a couple of pointsthere.
One I agree with you when I sayit over and over you can listen
to many episodes.
If the product does well, weall do well.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
And your second point .

Speaker 2 (33:31):
No, it's true because the ERP space is large because
of the need.
It's small because of theproducts which there are a wide
range of products and if you candefine and call what you would
call ERP.
But if you want BusinessCentral, if Business Central is
your core or the power platform,I'll just say the D365 stack

(33:54):
for the sake of the conversation.
If that is your core, ifthere's a lot of exposure to it,
go back to the AI searcheswhere the product will come up
for those that are looking forit.
Then they need to find someoneto source it for them.
If it's a successful invisibleproduct, you have more
opportunity to have thatcustomer move over to use your

(34:16):
services and you will never bethe only one to know or do
something, Because if you dosomething well and it's
successful, others will try toreplicate that in some fashion.
We have look at all theautomakers we have.
You don't just have oneautomaker.
You don't have just one truckmaker, because somebody made a

(34:38):
truck and everyone said, oh, atruck looks cool, let's make a
truck of our own with a slightvariation or a slight difference
from the other one, and ittakes a lot for people to accept
the fact that you will never bethe only one, and if you are,
it will not be long.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Well, yeah, I mean you can take that down into a
lot of things we end up likingcertain brands, right?
I mean, take a pair of sneakers.
Right, some people are gonnalike this brand over this brand
because they like the brand orbecause it's connected to some
sports person or or whatever,right?
So the end of day is, even ifthe two things hey, they keep my

(35:21):
feet dry or they let me run, Idon't know right, they let me
walk they still do the samething, but they're just
different.
I mean, it is what it is, butagain, it's a lot more crowded
today.
We've just got to get out thereand stand out from that crowd,
and that's one of the things wetry to do.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
So let's say, for example, as a new partner or ISV
that's getting into the dynamicspace, one of the things that
you had mentioned earlier isthat they have limited budget.
So what is what would be the?
Where would I put that moneyfor someone that's small, that's
trying to get into the dynamicscommunity like where do you,

(36:02):
where should they focus?

Speaker 3 (36:07):
It's a hard one to fully answer, but I would say I
like to take them down.
To be honest, down the thoughtleadership side, I really think
in a day, thought leadership isreally key.
I think that's one area that wetap in a lot, and it's not just
writing a blog, but writing itmore from a thought leadership

(36:28):
concept.
Now, because we've producedthat piece of content, now we
can use it in multiple places.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Define thought leadership.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
So one is really talking.
I would say it's like talkingabout the problems that a client
is having and showing yourexpertise in that space.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Excellent.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
How you're solving it , not talking about BC.
I mean, there's no harm indoing it, but don't write a
sales piece.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
I understand.
So you're not talking aboutBC's functionality.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
You're talking about your expertise to solving
problems cc's functionalityyou're talking about your
expertise to solving problemsutilizing business central
correct and you may bring alittle bit in.
It's like this is how it can doit, but not in a sales way.
I understand.
I think it's it's.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
I'm repeating it in brad speak just because if I can
absorb it then at least Iunderstand it and hopefully it
helps those that may notunderstand it, but everybody
else probably does and it's justme.
But right it's.
It's explaining how you use thetool, what the tool can do, but
how are you going to use thetool to solve the problem?

Speaker 3 (37:34):
it's right, it's, yeah, it's really there's a
challenge out there.
Right, there's a common issue.
We're going to go out there andexplain how we've solved that
issue in more of an educationalpiece than a sales piece.
Right, and taking it deeper.

(37:58):
At the end of the day, it's notjust writing one article
talking about multiples right,you could talk about thought
leadership.
It's like let's just take migmultiples right, you could talk
about thought leadership.
It's like let's just takemigrations right.
At the end of the day is, whatare you missing?
Right from moving from GP to BC?
Right, I mean, we could tapinto that.

(38:20):
There is less and less possiblyransomware happening when the
product's in the cloud comparedto when it's on-prem, and right,
so you can get a little bitmore into the security side and
the benefits there and how thathad.
If a client had moved from andthey had done it in a timely

(38:41):
manner or Then the other day,they probably wouldn't have got
a ransom attack on their on-premif they'd done that, but as
soon as they moved they wereable to, they kept getting,
still getting attacked, but theynever.
No one got in because it was inthe back.
Just trying to think of a goodexample there or right.
So it's that talking way, orthere is something in

(39:05):
manufacturing, right, if you'regoing again this, I think this
is the change we're starting tosee as well.
If we go back right in time,when we used to sell ERP, we
didn't care so much yes, we did,but we didn't care so much.
Yes, we did, but we didn't careabout the vertical that we were
attaching it to, right?
So the end of the day is a lotof clients who, historically,

(39:30):
they may have a lot of verticalswithin.
They don't have tons of peoplein one vertical.
They seem to be all over theplace, right, it was really just
take, I've got some customersin healthcare, I've got some in
financial, I've got some inmanufacturing, some in
distribution.
That's changed in the model wedo today.
If we're really focused onprofessional services, we don't

(39:51):
want to talk about manufacturing.
We got to talk about how we'resolving those problems in the
professional services side.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Okay, just to circle back, just to close the loop on
where your money should be going, based on your budget, is
really to spend time on thethought leadership component,
where you're putting content,you're solving problems, not
primarily just focusing on yourproduct that you're just selling

(40:20):
.
Selling this product is beingpart of that conversation.
In this case, maybe going to acommunity event where you may be
speaking to get your name outthere and then at that point, to
get some visibility.
To me, I think that's important, as someone that may be
starting into the dynamic spaceis joining these community

(40:44):
events and trying to get somespeaking sessions as a starting
point, depending on your budgetthat you have.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Yeah, I think there's one other area on that, chris,
that I would add as well, and Iprobably should have said it
first before.
I said thought leadership isyour foundation.
What is your foundation?
Your website is.
Your foundation, right At theend of the day, is you can write
all this thought leadership,but their event, the client,
prospective client is at somepoint going to go and research

(41:14):
you.
And, let's put it polite, If youhave a crap website, it's
probably going to turn them off.
Especially, again, let's goback to verticalization.
If you have a crap website,it's probably going to turn them
off.
Especially, again, let's goback to verticalization.
If you have nothing talkingabout professional services on
there, you're probably not goingto bring them in.
So it's making sure thatfoundation is right in the first

(41:35):
place, and there's a lot ofsites out there that are not
like that and we tend to.
Historically, we could get awaywith that.
Now you really need to do that.
I think of one client we wereworking with and then they took
some stuff in-house and theywent off and did a Google ad

(41:56):
campaign and then they wondered.
They came back to us and saidwell, can you analyze this,
because it's not producing anyleads directly.
They were getting people to thesite, but it wasn't converting.
So the ad was really good, butthe messaging once they got them

(42:18):
to their site did not match upto what they were trying to say.
They were doing no right.
The customer left or theprospect left at that point.
So, at the end of the day, yourwebsite is your foundation.
And again, if we go back tosearching searches, at the end
of the day Google and even AIthey're searching out there.

(42:39):
And if that foundation,foundation, that website, is not
correct I'm thinking of abetter word, I can't think of it
yet but if it's not there andit's not built correctly, it's
not going to come up with thesearches either.
Well, I appreciate you bringthat up.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Yeah, sorry, brad.
Uh, I appreciate you bring thatbecause people don't realize
that, like you said, you knowyou're speaking about, about a
problem and you have a solution.
They're going to research youand remember the behavior
changed.
Now it's no longer you know,they're going to research you
and look you up and get all theinformation.
That's weird.
And look at all the information.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Chris, you need to shut that off when you're doing
these things.
I do need to shut that off.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
I have to do like, maybe just do a thumbs up there,
but because if you don't havethat foundation you made a good
point, john is that co-pilot andAI is going to look at your
stuff in a way for you to beanother avenue to be found at
the same time.
So it has to match.
You're right, it goes back to.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
You have to have a proper representation of who you
are and what you are and you'resaying on your website.
So that's what it is is yourmessage has to match who and
what you are, instead ofthinking that people just know
who I am.
But I take it a bit further andit draws back to the community.
I think you also need to have apresence elsewhere other than

(44:00):
just your website, so you havethe visibility.
Presence elsewhere other thanjust your website, so you have
the visibility.
I try to use the analogy all thetime and Chris has heard me say
it probably countless times heneeds more than his hands and
his toes and probably the treesin his backyard.
People have a need and aproblem they're trying to solve.
You're not going to create theproblem for them, and what I
mean by this is I need a plumberwhen I have a problem with my

(44:24):
plumbing, who am I going to call?
I'm going to call.
Probably I'm going to look itup, I'll find someone's name,
but I'll also remember the truckthat I saw driving down the
street every time I went to thestore, because subconsciously,
that name's going to be there,because I'm going to feel that I
see them everywhere, so I'mgoing to feel that they have a

(44:45):
presence that they're all overthe place and they're servicing
people because they're all overthe place.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
So I take it they're driving around.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Right, well, they're driving.
Well, exactly, I mean, they'regoing to places.
So I think many discount in2025 and take it back to the
community having some sort ofpresence.
Elsewhere people will go.
Oh, I saw John, he talked aboutthis.
I have a problem with that.

(45:15):
I'm going to call him versus.
I'm looking at John's websiteand it says that he implements
software.
But okay, he implementssoftware, but how does that help
me?
It's almost figuring out a wayto articulate and demonstrate
you can solve and help someone'sproblem, because I am not
calling an electrician to fix mytoilet.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
So I'll give you an example of myself to do with
what you just said.
Give you an example of myselfto do with what you just said.
So there is being I've beentrying and it's a lot of it's
based on the stuff I'm writingat the moment is being, for the
last couple years, trying tochange the perception of people
thinking that all I do is socialmedia and let's take that I'm

(46:01):
an expert in social media.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Oh, you can help me out.
I have some questions.
Can you help me out?

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Right.
So, yeah, I can help you out,but let's take it back.
How did I get there, right?
So let's roll back to that.
And this goes and it goes intothe community as well here how
did we get there?
So, when I joined Data Masons torun their channel, I started
realizing, hey, I've just putmyself in a situation.
I don't like cold calling.

(46:27):
It's not my thing, I don't likeit At the end of the day, today
I could probably do it, butback then I just couldn't do it.
So I turned to LinkedIn.
So we're talking now when Ileft them.
Them was over 10 years ago, soprior to that.
So we're talking about 14, 15years ago.
I turned to LinkedIn as my way.

(46:48):
And LinkedIn back then everyonethought of it as more as a
resume board and that's all itwas Prior to even that catch
word that we use today socialselling.
I was doing that 14, 15 yearsago and I used LinkedIn to build
my reputation up and get DataMasons name out through that as

(47:10):
well.
Where did that lead to for?
Into the community.
And it goes back to your piecesof being out there and talking.
Yeah, data Masons was gettingsessions to talk about EDI, but
that was because they weresponsoring, not because they
were getting picked to talkabout it.
But I was getting picked toactually go and talk about

(47:32):
social media to other partnersto say hey, or ISVs to say you
need to start looking at it.
So we started sharing what?
Basically education about whatwas working for us and how to be
successful with it.
You can argue and say whydidn't you do that?
It was outside of what you did.
It brought in someone warmbecause they trusted me so I

(47:56):
could bring in a partner.
I could bring in, say, the twoof you.
You were back then right, whatis he doing?
How is he using LinkedIn?
I don't want to.
I want to go and listen to howhe's using it to drive business.
Right Now, I've got you, youhooked into trusting me.
Maybe now we can have aconversation about EDI, right,
and how you guys could sell itright For us through your

(48:16):
customers.
Anyway, trying to get.
But then that snowballed intoMicrosoft, then catching on to
it and having me speak at eventslike the WPC Inspire event and
keep on going with that.
I mean convergence, I mean sothere we go back in time, right.
So some of the old conferenceswhich are around.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
I remember convergence.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yep, I was invited to go and talk about how to use
social to drive business througheither an ISB or a partner, how
to find customers, but I tookit to another level.
So when I got to places likeInspire and WPC, I was out there

(49:00):
also actively I'd sit in akeynote.
I don't do it today because Ithink I just exhausted myself.
Back then I would sit in akeynote and I would basically
tweet every single message I sawcome up on the screen that
whoever was speaking was talkingabout.
This is one of my claims tofame.

(49:22):
I love Multiple inspires.
I got shut down by Twitterbecause it thought I was a
spammer, because the volume ofmessaging I was putting out in
the time period was so great andit was basically it was all
manually Like I said it was.
When I look back to it, it'slike gee, they would shut me

(49:45):
down for like 10, 15 minutes andeven Microsoft tried to talk to
.
This was before the Elon dayswas trying to talk to Twitter
and say can we not have thisperson shut down because they're
better?
Anyway, roll on a little bit tothat.
Within the conferences andwe've seen this right they had a

(50:08):
leader board to do with socialmedia of what was being said For
two, three years in a row andthey kept trying to change their
algorithm to give others.
I was always start at top ofthat leader board, right?
And what that was a way was tostay top of mind.
I've always believed that youhave to stay top of mind.
It goes back to leadership aswell writing content, just
keeping that mindset.
And Brad, you bring up thatgood point, right.

(50:30):
If I keep seeing that plumbertruck when I do need a plumber,
I'm probably going to thinkabout that.
I think of it in a differentway, right.
I'm thinking of buying a newcar.
Do I buy a BMW or an Audi orwhatever?
If I keep seeing more about theAudi, I'm probably going to
lean to that.
It doesn't matter how much it's, just it gets into our psyche

(50:52):
and you also start comparing allothers to that Audi.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
It's a strange psychology that many don't
understand, because even withoutdoing anything, for lack of air
quotes I love air quotes,everybody loves air quotes but
even not doing anything, besideshaving good advertising driving
down the street, in essence, atsome points you can become the
de facto standard that peoplecompare against.

(51:17):
Even if you get the deal or not, you still get brought into
there when people weigh you assomething, this whole social
media presence.
I have so many questions foryou about that.
We'll have to have next Tuesday.
Is it next Tuesday?

Speaker 3 (51:34):
We're going to skip a session.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
We're going to skip a session and we're going to have
a private conversation, becauseI have some questions and
struggles and it's just the waythat I think about some of the
social media stuff and I'm goingto pick your brain.
I'm just letting you know.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Now really quick.
Then it sounds to me that youknow, based on just the story
you've given John, so you know,people start to trust you, right
, because you're talking about aproblem and you have a solution
that may not be.
You know people start to trustyou, right, because you're
talking about a problem and youhave a solution that may not be.
You know you're talking about.
You had a speaking sessionabout social media, but then
you're doing EDI solution, right?
So is it more important now,from a relationship aspect, to

(52:17):
have your own personal brand atthe same time, right, because
you're speaking, you're talkingabout other things.
But then, like, I'm going totrust John, I'm going to trust
Brad, because I've seen himspeak about something and then I
happen to have something.
I'm going to ask him hey, isthis something that you can help
, because I trust you?
So I'm curious about your takeon that.
Is that important now that youhave a personal brand?

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Let's define right now that you have a personal
brand, let's define right.
Let's define because we knowthere's a lot of companies out
there that struggle with havingsomeone that becomes a personal
brand with inside theirorganization and takes in their
minds.
Right, senior management takesaway from the organization that
they're working for.
There there is a conflict.

(53:00):
I would say I probably did gothrough that at some point with
Data Masons, because I know thatpeople thought I was actually a
co-owner for a period of timebut I never was.
To me today, I think there is abalancing act.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
I thought it was your company at one point, just to
be honest.
I wish it was when they soldfor $100 million.
I thought it was your companyat one point, just to be honest,
I wish it was.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
When they sold for $100 million, I wish it was.
But even that, I would havetaken just a million and I'd be
happy.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
I would have taken a penny.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Yeah.
So I think, at the end of theday, chris, I think it is
important to find and have andlet people that can be out there
and help you from a voice, andwe want to call that thought
leader, whatever you want tocall it Right, I think it's

(53:52):
beneficial to have.
It gets you out there.
I think what I like is also isit sometimes opens the door up
to the soft approach, right?
I mean mean even things likethis podcast right at the end of
the day, me talking is thatreally directly helping your
business?
You can argue and say, well, weput a lot of time in it.

(54:14):
Does it really indirectly?
It probably does, because itbrings attention.
It brings people in that wantto listen to the conversation
and start to trust you.
So I think trust comes in adifferent ways.
It's not always about it goesback to that thought leadership
and what I said about let's notalways try to keep selling the
product, to sell our expertiseand what we're talking about and

(54:36):
things like that.
So, yes, I believe it isimportant, but there is a
balance as well to look at and Ithink some and again I'll
probably get slapped, butthey're probably never gonna be
my customers anyway, some of thepartners out there or some
execs who don't believe in it,start looking at changing your
tune because it really will helpyou in the long run.

(55:01):
If you've got someone that'swilling to go out there, support
them because I think in thelong run it will help.
And then, going back to thatcontent development, whenever we
go in and we want to do athought leadership with the
organization that can be, wework with them and say, okay,
who is going to be that thoughtleader?
Is that going to be you as theCEO, or is it going to be this

(55:24):
other person that's the VP ofsales, or is it the VP of
technology or someone else?
Right, who is the person thatwe need the customers,
prospective customers or evencustomers to trust, who they can
relate to?
So I think, at the end of theday, it is in.
I think in this day and age, wehave to do that, but balance it

(55:47):
.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, and I agree there is a fine balance there,
because when you say thoughtleadership, that comes to my
mind about okay, well, you knowyou're putting that content
together, you know, and it's you, that's your kind of your
personal perspective, and you'reputting content about thought

(56:10):
leadership and things like that.
So, yeah, I think it's a fineline, but at the end of the day,
you are the one that's puttingthat effort into it.
It does carry you.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
it does carry with you as you move on to something
else right, but if you're,you're and I also look at that
is people leave because of areason thank you, right, thank
you because they're unhappy withwhere they are.
Can you repeat that peopleleave because of a reason,

(56:43):
because they're probably unhappy, not because of what, because
they want to go out there and betopped off at the end of the
day?
Is you continue, you will reapthe benefit from it, from an
organization that that is soimportant it's I.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
I love what you're and I could talk with you about
this for hours, and that is animportant message.
A lot of times, individuals mayhave a different approach,
thinking I want to hold someoneso they can't leave, and it's
better to have a beneficial orfriendly relationship.
Keep people happy.
They'll stay happy.

(57:23):
They'll stay.
They will not leave because ifthey feel, if they're happy with
whatever it is it products,service, relationship if they
feel they're getting somethingfrom it right, selfishly in a
sense.
I mean, ultimately, allrelationships come down to what
can I get from it.
And what can I get from itDoesn't have to be what are you
giving me, because you couldalso be giving me enrichment,
you could be giving me happiness, because our conversations are
enlightening.

(57:43):
So that's what.
When I say getting somethingfrom a relationship, it doesn't
have to be financial or in thesense of using, but everybody's
relationship, even your personalrelationship.
You're getting something fromit either, whether it's even
down to joy, but that's one ofthe most important things with
building relationships Peoplewill stay with you employees,

(58:05):
customers, whatever you callthem if they're happy with you,
regardless of what's out there.
And people will call them,they'll come up with searches,
they'll see other things.
Trying to hold them will buildanimosity, because then they'll
figure out can I leave?
Oh, they're trying to keep mein.
They're not letting me leavebecause people want that freedom
to choose.

(58:25):
It's, it's part of who we are,you know right, I like to.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
I like to put it another way as well, brandon.
People buy from people.
They don't buy physicalproducts.
Right, they want to build thattrust and the the other day
having someone there, I take itback and if she does listen to
this, maybe Mary Myers wouldlike this analogy.
Right, and I'm going to put itback as I think I love Mary.

(58:52):
Right, I think she's doing anamazing job out there as well.
And, at the end of the day, asI look at it, I think back in
the days we used to do a ton ofbusiness on the golf course
right, it didn't go away, but itslowed down a lot.
It was not used.
I look at this as what we'redoing is like the old days, but

(59:12):
electronically right, usingtools like LinkedIn maybe, or
whatever.
At the end of the day, youbuilding relationships, which is
all trust, right, and that washappening.
It didn't matter about what theproducts it's.
It sort of goes back to is whoyou know or what you know.
It's not always what you know,it's who you know.
It's how you got to where it isand we're trying to get that

(59:34):
out.
Um, so I put it down.
But I think the golf course iscoming back and there's a ton of
businesses going on there.
But I do look at like LinkedInsometimes as the electronic
version of the golf course.
I'm going to put myself as justout there, right, why did I
reach out to you guys to be onyour podcast and luckily, hey,

(59:54):
you got me on here.
It's because I felt over that.
I look back at the last coupleof years and thinking, yeah, I
try to stay top of mind, but Ineed to be in other places.
So I'm going to put my hands upand be selfish and say, and
guys, well, maybe I won't putthis one out there because he's
just admitted what he wants tobe on here, but because I needed

(01:00:15):
to put.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
We'll edit that out.
So keep telling us, we'll justedit it out, right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
It's to elevate, it's to back to what I used to do
and I feel like, for mepersonally, I've dropped off a
little bit of being out there as, I'll say, a top dog because of
some things I've done.
But then I also could look back.
It's like I retired off of thedirections board last year after

(01:00:43):
being on there for 10 plusyears.
So the end of the day is thathad me.
I suppose you could argue andsay, okay, I didn't look at it
like this personally, but itelevated me right all the time
because people would see methere.
I was part of the board.
I was always at the front.
I'd be up on the stage whenthey introduced who were the
volunteers right that, or I waspart of the board.
I was always at the front.
I'd be up on the stage whenthey introduced who the
volunteers right that, or I wason their website.

(01:01:05):
That is not happening.
So you have to look at thesethings and evolve.
But going back to where we weregoing is 100% is if you've got
someone inside the organizationis willing to be your top dog
and being willing to go outthere and do a podcast or
whatever, as long as it doesn'ttake away 100% of their
day-to-day job.

(01:01:27):
So if they're generatingbusiness, don't squash it.
Look at supporting it and maybe, yeah, help it in a way.
I was trying to think of anotherexample.
Years ago there was a partnerthat I was talking to, the CEO.

(01:01:47):
It's like we're struggling toget the team to write blogs.
Right.
We know we need to write them.
Marketing can't do all of it.
We want the team internally towrite, but we've got some great
minds minds but they don't wantto write because they're being
told that they have to maketheir billable hours.
So instead we came up with theplan is like why don't we

(01:02:12):
include into the billingbillable hours that if they
write a blog, that counts totheir billable hours?
So, hypothetically, if theywrite a blog, it checks off two
hours of their billable hours.
They've got to do that week andwhat they found is that that
changed the mindset and theyended up actually getting one

(01:02:35):
person on the consultant teamwho ended up writing all the
time and they didn't want tolose him from the billables.
He still doing the billables.
He was actually billing morebecause he was writing as well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Take it all the way back to a couple points, but it
is to the point you're saying,because, also, that same person
that's doing that content isalso learning more.
Because if they're writingcontent, yes, and that doesn't
have to be the content, that'sthe latest and greatest, most
complicated it could be anotherway to use customers and ship to
addresses and business central,for example, to bring it back.
To go back to your golf courseit's another thought that I say

(01:03:09):
to people and the reason whythis is Brad psychology,
one-on-one on how I can claim tothink that I just know things.
But the golf course is a goodplace and a lot of business
happens at golf course, justlike at the networking events at
some of these conferences.
And it's not because of thenetworking event, because you're
having a drink, because somepeople go to those events and do

(01:03:31):
not drink.
You know we had one.
We were together recently, I hadmocktails and I was talking
with everybody.
But what it is is everyone's ina different environment.
They feel more relaxed.
They don't feel like it's asales pitch.
I feel like I'm sitting inthere talking with John as a
person about my problems, aboutwhat he can do, about what he's
done, what he's seen, and it'snot a sales pitch and it's not

(01:03:54):
an environment where I want yourbusiness.
It's.
Hey, let me just build trust,because relationships all come
down to trust.
I'm going to build trustthrough that conversation
because we're in a relaxedenvironment, we're open to be
more receptive and now I want towork with John because I now
have trust in him, because I getto know him as a person.

(01:04:15):
I feel, in my opinion, I feelin this world of AI, go back to
what we said before, say it adifferent way, to sort of repeat
ourselves.
I think relationships are goingto be the most crucial part of
business, even with AI doing allthese other things.
Because, we are a communalspecies and we still will need
to have that connection.

(01:04:35):
As much as we think we can doeverything alone, you still need
that external stimulation fromanother person.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Right and I mean I and I'll get a little personal
here I deep down, I'm a very shyperson.
People are going to laugh now.
It's like, damn, he's not a shyperson, he's out there.
But I am Back in the days.
I'd be that person that ifsomeone said, hey, you're going
to go to a conference, I'd goand stand in the corner or find
a way to get out of the door asquick as I could because I don't

(01:05:05):
want to go and mix with people.
But over the years I changedthat Social actually helped that
because it built trust and etcetera, et cetera.
But at the end of the day is,yeah, I mean conferences really
help At the end of the day.
I've gone through and I've sortof tried to coach people as
well.
It's like, hey, at the end ofthe day I always looked at it as

(01:05:25):
being I want to be the last manstanding or the last person
standing let's get thispolitically correct but last
person standing in the roombecause you don't know what's
going to happen.
But it gives me an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
I think you can say last man standing now in the
United States, yeah okay, that'sright.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
Good, hey, but I'll still say last person.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
No, I understand.
I just had to throw that inthere just because it's who I am
.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Yep, so it's building that, as I said.
Look, it's not also about goingout there and getting from.
The plotly shitfest in the dayis.
I know that I remember closingor basically getting a massive
opportunity at like one o'clockin the morning because I sat

(01:06:09):
there.
But I've been talking to thatperson on and off over a period
of time at different conferencesand we just happen to sit in
the bar together talking andsuddenly it just came out they
said okay, we want to work withyou.
But I mean tying in it's likeI've always believed in the
community.
I mean to tie back into that alittle bit is when did I get

(01:06:31):
involved in the community?
That's probably a good questionI'll ask myself.
Right, and it goes back to thedata.
So we all know about SummitDynamics Communities.
I know there's other events,like DynamicsCon, which I
believe in.
I believe in all the communitystuff.
Have I been to everything?
No, it's challenging, it's abig expense to try to be
everywhere, but I actually wasat the.

(01:06:53):
I always say it was at the realfirst ever Dynamics Community
Summit.
Technically there was onebefore where they sat around a
table to work out how it wasgoing to pull together as a
small group but I went to thefirst ever one that was out in I
think it was Bellevue, out thatway in the Seattle area and I

(01:07:14):
remember being there with no, itwasn't with data masons, it was
with bottom line technology,with the Crankform product.
We were there and I remember asif someone we were in the
hallway, if someone was talkingto you and then on the other
opposite table someone wastalking as well.
It was a struggle to getthrough that's back.
So that's how long I sort ofbeen going, I think.

(01:07:37):
Out of all the summits I'veonly ever missed two because of
personal reasons.
So I've pretty much been toevery single one.
I will give a shout out.
I know he's not involvedanymore, but I'll give a big
shout out to Andy Hafer, becausewhen I did leave Data M's I was
in transition and that wasright around summit and I was

(01:08:00):
talking to him and said, look,I'm probably not going to make
it.
I'm in transition, I don't havethe funds.
And now I look back.
I was like I should have putthat as a priority, but I didn't
look at it.
I'm still working out.
Am I going out on my own?
Am I going somewhere else?
And he turned around and saidto me hey, you are coming.
He said, don't worry about thecost, I'm picking up your hotel.

(01:08:22):
I'm picking up, just pick upyour flight.
Basically, everything else ispaid.
You just do a few hours for meon the because I was helping him
a little early on with theirsocial media, trying to get that
working for them.
So I gave them a lot of advice.
So it was a trade-off Basically.
We traded some time.
So I always give them creditand that really elevated at the
time being there, helped mebuild my business.

(01:08:51):
But the community is really akey.
I mean you go back both of youtalked about especially Chris,
you were talking about being aspeaker.
I've always tried to look atbeing a speaker at every event
and trying to bring a topic thatmakes sense, that the audience
wants to hear about.
But it's not always about.
To me it's not selling, it'sabout educating.
That comes number one.
So many people say to me allthe time it's like you don't

(01:09:12):
talk about yourself or what youdo.
I'm not there for that, I'mthere to teach and that becomes
my priority.
Um, so I probably did on yourpodcast.
I did a little bit more sellingwith myself than I probably
normally do, but community isreally important.
Um, I said I've been on theboard for directions for over 11

(01:09:33):
years.
I mean, that was when I started.
We were down in the 500s, um,lower than 500 attendees, and
when I left we're like 1200 pluspeople, I mean, and a massive
event.
Um, I'm, I mean, I'm proud ofthe community.
It wasn't just me, but thewhole community came together.

(01:09:53):
That event is amazing, um, and Ithink it can grow.
I mean, if this community keepson growing as it should, it
could easily be a 2,000 personevent.
But at the same time, itdoesn't feel like that when
you're there.
There is so much involvementwith people.
And if we take like Summit lastyear, I remember making an

(01:10:17):
effort, didn't want to count, Iwent and sat on a lunchtime.
I sat down at the table,happened to be all NGUs and
somehow we got talking and Istarted asking the question did
you migrate to BC or you're onBC?
Yes, did you migrate there?
No, we were new and I learnedof all the people I met.
There was actually more BCcells than there was migration

(01:10:37):
happening.
So again, community is reallykey.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
It's such a large community, but it's so small at
the same time.
And to go back to your point, Idon't take this as you selling
yourself.
I take it as you sharing yourexperience and knowledge so
others can learn and maybe takea look at what they're doing.
And we learn by experience,either hearing and listening to

(01:11:04):
others' experience or by our own.
It's how we learn and we gothrough.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
It's giving back because I've shared this story
in the past where, you know, Iwas on that other side.
I was the one that was sittingin the very back listening to a
speaker and sharing theirexperience.
And you know, as I progressedwith my career, I want to give
back because I learned so muchfrom others.
I learned so much from thecommunity.

(01:11:32):
You know, the one thing I cando is give my time back and so
speaking and just educating andthat's the focus which education
?
I'm not trying to sell myself,sell anything else.
I just want to share what I'velearned throughout my career and
hopefully somebody that'ssitting back there could feel
the same way and it kind ofrepeats that cycle and hopefully
seeing them up there in inteaching.

(01:11:52):
You know a session and goingback to the community, it's
importance of communities thatyou brought up directions and
you know fun fact I'm I'mworking with mary on the
marketing side.
You know I'm I'm coming from atech background, so similar to
you, john.
You know I'm shy, I'm a person.
I think every tech person,every it person, I don't know a

(01:12:14):
little bit more shy, but youknow, being part of that, seeing
it come together, is impressiveand now we have directions in
Las Vegas coming up, so that isgoing to be fun and we're
looking to see everybody joiningus there.
Especially for smaller partnersor ISVs that are getting to the
space, this is the event to go,because then you get to see how

(01:12:40):
everyone's doing it andlearning from everybody and how
to market yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
And I think I've got a good analogy as well on
directions right At the end ofthe day is when the partners,
when the competing partnersbecause technically they're
still competing right they'reall trying to close maybe BC
business.
As soon as they walk throughthe doors of the hotel for that
event they are no longercompetitors.

(01:13:04):
Everyone there is to share witheveryone else.
It goes back to a comment wemade earlier on Brad right,
which was at the end of the day,is the more we share with each
other, the greater thiscommunity can be, the greater we
can drive more business.
At the end of the day thattruly happens at that event.
I'm not saying it doesn't atother events, but the whole

(01:13:25):
competitive thing goes out ofthe window as soon as we go out
the door.
At the end of the event we'recompetitors again.
But while we're in that fewdays we're there, we are not.
We're all sharing and I thinkthat is really the key.
So the other day I would say toanyone it's too late now, but

(01:13:46):
go out there, try, go and put asession out there.
People want to hear.
I mean, I sat on running the,the sessions, basically the
content, for a few years withdirections and I was always
looking for new voices because,yes, I want to hear, it's great
to hear Brad and Chris.

(01:14:07):
They've got great stuff.
They're always bringing freshcontent.
But there's God knows otherpeople out there that also have
knowledge and experience.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Let's bring them to the did you just say don't go to
my sessions?

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
no, I wasn't saying don't go to your session.
I'm looking for that.
I can't go to your session nextweek because it's all at the
same time as mine, so that'swhat I meant.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
I understand what you meant.
I listen, I have to throw someof that stuff in there.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
It's just part of how I am with the conversation but,
yeah, go out there, um be it,but support it.
I mean I'd love to be at everysingle event.
I mean I I just at the end ofthe day as a business owner, and
I'm sure many others is, weonly have so much of a budget
right at the end of the day isdo I feel a benefit to be at all

(01:14:56):
the events I could think of?
Let's just call out three mainevents.
I think of right Directionsfrom a partner, isd standpoint,
doug.
Right Dynamics Con, that'sgoing to be in what's it?
May, which is going to be a mixrange users and partners.
And then we've got Summit lateron.
Yes, there's the roadsh andthere's the regionals and the

(01:15:18):
local meetings that happen.
It's tough to be at all thoseplaces.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
It is.

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
So you have to pick and choose.
I mean I'd love to be atDynamicsCon this year.
I just can't put it in thebudget and plus there's a lot of
other stuff we've got going oninternally.
We just can't be there and we'dlove to be there.
For many years I've alwayswanted to go out to directions,
and yet it keeps getting put offbecause other things come up.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
It is a challenge of picking which event to go to
because of what you hadmentioned, it's sometimes not
financially feasible, but alsotime-wise and logistically.
I'm with you.
I've been trying to get toEurope for several years, but
some of these events take moreto go through.
So it is a challenge sometimesto pick the one that you feel

(01:16:08):
will provide you the mostvaluable value.
Excuse me, but it's alsoimportant to understand and
accept that you can't go to themall and I like your notion of
going out and presenting,speaking and doing sessions and
if you can't make it to one ofthe larger sessions, there's the
road shows and the meetup typesessions that are a smaller,

(01:16:29):
local, one day, half day typeevents that, if they're in your
area, give it a shot Becauseit's same type of people but a
smaller crowd and maybe a littleless pressure.
But also one thing I know isI've been into many sessions
with as first time speakers andeveryone who's in the sessions
with our wonderful communitysupport everybody.
Even if they see they'renervous or if they feel that

(01:16:52):
there's a challenge, many otherswill just jump in and help and
engage to help bring somelightness to the room and also
help drive to make sure it's aneffective session.
So I'm with you.
I think everybody should do it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
And I think it's the end of the day, let's not just
limit that right.
And at the end of the day, I'msure there's going to be end
users that end up listening toyour podcast right At the end of
the day is.
Also, think about beingspeakers.
You actually, as an end user,bring a lot of knowledge from a
different perspective.
It's great and I really respectevery partner ISV that puts

(01:17:27):
their time and effort.
But I think we need to have alittle bit more end user.
I know we see that a little bitmore in the end user stuff.
We won't see it at directionsbecause end users are not
allowed into the event.
But at the end of the day, Ithink coming from the end user
community really gives anotherperspective on things Because

(01:17:52):
again, you can talk back.
If you're a discretemanufacturing company that's
gone through some challenges,through maybe implementation, or
you have to do something withVC to do what you got for your
business, I'm positive there areother end users in your same,
in discrete manufacturing, maybenot making the same things as

(01:18:14):
you who want to listen to howyou solve those problems,
because I guarantee they're alsoin those having those issues as
well.
So it does help.
And again, community communityright At the end of the day is
just support it.
And community we also I don'tknow, sometimes I feel like I

(01:18:35):
mean you've got.
The other side of it is MVPs,right At the end of the day.
Mvps is another avenue on thecommunity side.
I think there's been a littlebit of a I'm going to personally
say what I hear out there isthere's been a little bit of a
bad rap, I think, on some of theMVPs recently.
But again, at the end of theday, there is an opportunity for

(01:18:56):
others to be out there who havethe knowledge as well.
So, mvps, I support you.
I think you bring a lot and Iknow you guys he's also there as
well.
But at the end of the day,there are others out there who
don't have their titles and knowa lot of stuff and we need them
to share as well.
And it's not because they needto be an MVP, they just need to
share as well.
And it's not because they needto be an MVP, they just need to

(01:19:16):
share.

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
I like that.
I like that.
Well, mr John, I'd love to talkto you more about the community
, so I think we'll have tofollow up, but I do have a
couple questions for you as wewrap this up.
If you could give one or twotips for someone to help with
their social media presence andI'm going to call you after

(01:19:41):
because I'll send you a messageI'm struggling on- something.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
I'm going to write this down.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
You should write it down, but if you could give one
or two your choice tips of howsomeone could effectively
increase their social mediapresence successfully oh my god
put you in the spot it's funnybecause I'm just thinking about

(01:20:09):
how I need to increase my socialpresence.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
That's all I'm thinking.
It's like mine's dropped offbecause you get busy, I think
it's.
I mean my number one is likeanything right is blocking time
out on the calendar and do notgo and replace it with something
else.
So hypothetically, say, okay,Friday afternoon between 4 and 5

(01:20:36):
, I'm going to write my messagesfor the next week.
So hypothetically, say, okay,Friday afternoon between four
and five, I'm going to write mymessages for the next week and
then schedule them all.
Right, I think at the end ofthe day there's that piece.
I think we don't do that enough.
I mean I know that I'm beatingmyself up, trying I've got to do
more.
I mean I do write, but againI've got to do more.

(01:20:57):
I know I've got to do more.
I mean I do write, but againI've got to do more.
I know I've got to do more andI used to do more, but we get
busy.
But I think as soon as I putstuff on the calendar I tend to
get better because it locks thattime.
Now, probably for the first,I'm going to say period of time.
You're going to keep cancelingthat, but over time.
Try not to do that.
Who was I?
I think it was someone outsidethe community.

(01:21:21):
They basically put everythingthey do to the point of I get up
in the morning and my calendarfrom the morning to I go to bed
is what I use.
It's like I'm going to the gymbetween 7 and 8.
I'm going to put that on mycalendar From this to this.
At 12 o'clock noon I'm walkingthe dog for 15 minutes just so I

(01:21:47):
get away from my computer, Lockit down on the calendar and I
think at the end of the day itputs you in that mode that you
have to do that task in it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
I like that and it becomes a habit.
And once it becomes a habit, itbecomes easier, as you had
mentioned I think that'simportant and also I think
others need to respect otherpeople's calendars, even if they
put some of those events onthere just to remind them,
Because I know I do that on someof my things and I'll put down.
Like you said, I put down lunch.
I'll put down different thingsbecause I want to make sure I

(01:22:21):
take a break.
For example, the scheduling ofthe post is a great tip.
I appreciate that, and thenfocusing and taking the time to
do that.
I have a follow-up question tothat, because I appreciate that
feature on both LinkedIn andTwitter.

(01:22:41):
Do you think that thoseplatforms treat the content?

Speaker 3 (01:22:45):
that's scheduled differently as how it may appear
to the audience.
So I heard you use the wordTwitter.
First of all, I'd say to youdon't even bother anymore with
Twitter.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:22:55):
It doesn't help our business.
I've run so many analytics forthe last few years on that no
one is getting any traction onit that makes sense to even
bother to post on it, I think.
Going back to the schedule, howdo you do the scheduling?
There are plenty of tools outthere Hootsuite, buffer and all
that that could schedule.

(01:23:15):
I think what you'll find isthat doing those tools will
definitely downgrade you.
I have not seen data to saythat using LinkedIn's direct
scheduling tool actuallydowngrades you.
But again, what does it take toactually go in post, right?

(01:23:38):
So again, put it on yourcalendar doesn't mean you can't
write it ahead of time.
Set yourself like it.
Probably.
You could probably put thatmessage on in five minutes.
So the end of day is test it,see how it works, you get better
.
But I, I, I we do a lot ofscheduling for a lot of our
clients, but we have startedmoving away from the scheduling

(01:24:01):
tools and logging in directly tothe account and scheduling
there Excellent.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
So I think it's that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
But I think I go back to the other pieces.
Brad on messaging is Brad onmessaging, don't just think
about.
If you're going to talk about atopic about acceptance testing,
right, go and write it, notjust one message.
Write enough for maybe the nextthree months.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
Oh boom, I'm writing that down.
See, see, right, this is good.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
Because what you also got to remember is what we saw
today.
If I saw a message from youtoday, okay that's great, but if
I didn't see you pop on my feedwith that message, I've never
seen it.
So it doesn't matter if yourepeat I mean, I don't always
like to repeat for Bidum, but itdoesn't matter, you could bring

(01:24:56):
it back if it's still a senseyou can repeat.
So what I'd like?
So sometimes what I'd like todo with our clients is take a
topic and write a handful ofmessages for that same topic and
then we can start to scheduleout and over time you're gonna
see your schedule is gettingfull because you're going down

(01:25:19):
further, but at the same timemake sure you're tracking that
in some spreadsheet or somethingso you know what slots you
filled I love this and therewill always be the first time
for somebody to see everythingand, as ed, you had mentioned
correct, they won't always seeit at the same time, and that

(01:25:39):
even goes with content andsessions.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Just to bring it back before we do wrap here, it's
okay.
It doesn't have to be acomplicated topic either Because
, as you had mentioned, you satand talked with members of
Summit.
There are always new teammembers joining an organization
that are new to Business Central.
There are always organizationsthat are new to Business Central
, so someone always is in a spotwhere they need to learn how to

(01:26:04):
enter a sales order, forexample.
So just because you may havebeen doing it for 20 years or
you think that everybody alreadyknows how to use it, there is
somebody else that's in theirjourney that hasn't learned that
yet or doesn't know of all thefeatures that they could have.
So I appreciate everything youjust said that this last couple
minutes was powerful for me.

Speaker 3 (01:26:23):
My mind is blown again and what you just said
about sessions.
It was a really hard thing whenI was running the sessions on
direction right, the content,because the end of the day we'll
see that session happening atall these other meetings.
It's like, do we really wantthat session at directions as
well?
And you make a good point, isnot everyone probably saw it?

(01:26:46):
But at the same time we'retrying to look for fresh content
and it's a hard balance.
Sometimes it's like and I evenhave that it's like.
Sometimes it's like, okay, do Ireally want to see that same
here, that same session being atfive different events?
But sometimes the audience isdifferent, that's okay, yeah but

(01:27:09):
I think you've got as contentdecision makers.
You've got to know your audience.
If you are getting a lot ofoverlap, then start to think
about that.
May not be the right thing, butI do think sometimes there is a
little bit.
I mean, I'll just put itbluntly there is sometimes that
certain speakers constantly getchosen, but at the end of the

(01:27:31):
day there is a lot out there.
So let some of the newbies inthere as well, because they can
bring another insight or abetter idea.
Put them together with thatother speaker thank you, topic I
love yes, I love when you havemore than one speaker.

(01:27:51):
make it if it's a panel orhaving technically, let's just
make you both happy.
Have Chris and Brad together,right, doesn't need to be just
Brad on his own, just Chris.
Bring the two together.
I know Chris.
You've done sessions withothers as well.
I know Brad.
At the end of the day, itbenefits right.
For the first time ever, Isubmitted a session with Mary

(01:28:16):
Myers this year Excellent Rightfor directions.
Now we'll see if it getsselected now because there is a
hook, we could see something andit's like, okay, let's try a
different approach.
A lot of the sessions I putinto directions were not just me
on my own, they were with otherpeople.
That's awesome.
That's more powerful, becausenow we just used the two of you

(01:28:37):
and I know we want to close up.
Here is Brad.
You may have one perspective onthe topic.
Chris, you have anotherperspective.
I can listen.
When I have the two of you, Iget the two sides and you have
the audience's perspective.
So now you have multipleperspectives.
This is just one person, it'sone sided.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
Can't agree with it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
Yeah, I can't agree more.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
Yeah, I can't agree more.
No, I am a fan of co-presentingand if you listen to all the
conversations I have with thesecommittees and with other people
, I would prioritizeco-presenting for many reasons.
One you had just mentioned afew points.
One the dynamic in the room isoften different because you have
different perspectives,different personalities that can
bring more out from theattendees.

(01:29:22):
Two a lot of times they look atthe session presenters saying,
well, they're a seasonedpresenter, with the assumption
that maybe they're morecomfortable, they know how to do
it, they have experience.
It's one of those thingsEverybody wants somebody with
experience, but nobody wants togive someone with experience.
So then, going with theco-presentinging, if you have
somebody who's new, that may bea little nervous or apprehensive

(01:29:42):
about trying it, put them withsomeone else that has done it
and they can mentor them andcoach them through it.
Then you have two people inthere.
So even if they're notcomfortable and they can do a
small portion of it, they getthe experience of doing those
presentations.
And that is why I think thatyou should almost anybody who's
on a planning committee on anyof these conferences that are

(01:30:05):
worldwide.
I would weigh those more as faras something we want because of
those reasons and it bringsmore people in Totally.

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
Yes, the only challenge you've got and this is
the challenge and being on theother side of the fence and
seeing it as an organizer thechallenge you then have is how
are we I'll use the wordcompensating the speakers, right
?
Some events give you a freepass.
A free pass cost that ventmoney.
Right, it's not cheap.

(01:30:33):
I mean, some of the pastdirections was like just to have
someone come in free was over athousand dollars by the time
you add.
And that's just the ticketalone.
Because of all the food andstuff like that, it it's crazy
amount of money when you reallylook at it.
So now you bring in two, do Igive them free?
Now I've doubled my money,right, double cost to have.

(01:30:56):
So there is a balancing act it'sa struggle.
I I agree it's a struggle butat the end of the day, me
personally, I would probably Imean, I love free tickets to get
an event but I probably wouldsay, hey, I'm okay paying half
the tip price of ticket insteadof the full if I can have and
see more pounds but there's alsothe I.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
I understand the balance of it.
I do understand there's a costto it because the event.
I know the cost that go intosome of these events because
people think a cup of coffee Icould buy down the street for a
buck, but in these eventsthey're going to charge you $100
for a pot of eight cups.
I understand the markup on it,but also you have better
speakers and a better journey.

(01:31:36):
See, I'm going to keep goingback to this I'm all on this
journey kick.
Give an attendee a journey thatthey can follow, they feel they
can get something out of it.
You'll have more people whowant to attend.
So you build a they will cometype thing in some essence.
And I understand.
I'm thankfully not involved inworrying about any compensation
and nor am I saying any shouldbe given.
Thankfully not involved inworrying about any compensation

(01:31:56):
and nor am I saying any shouldbe given.
I'm just saying from apresentation point of view, two
presenters often yeah, I justwanted to put that out.

Speaker 3 (01:32:05):
Is it the other side of?
The challenge that theseorganizers have, but I think
we're all in agreement.
Right, more panels, bring morespeakers together.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
Let's share this wealth well for knowledge.
I love the panels too, becauseit people can ask the questions.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
Solve my problem, I want to get well, it becomes a
conversation right.
That makes it easier for peopleto just, you know, listen in.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
I could talk about this stuff for days.
But, mr john, we'll have toschedule another conversation to
follow up on this.
But we do appreciate you takingthe time to speak with us today.
Time that's spent we don't getback, and time is valuable.
So anybody that spends timewith us and shares their
information with us, we'regreatly appreciative, and we say
that sincerely.
In the meantime, if anyonewould like to get in contact

(01:32:52):
with you to learn more about themarketing services that you
offer or anything else that youare doing within the community,
what's the best way to get incontact with you to learn more
about the marketing servicesthat you offer or anything else
that you are doing within thecommunity?
What's the best way to get incontact with you?

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):
go look us up on our website, marketeeringcom.
That's one place to look at it.
Or just come and find me onlinkedin.
Excellent john with j-o-n andnot the H.
That's another story foranother day.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
Oh, we'll put that on the next one, that's not my
full name.

Speaker 3 (01:33:20):
I shortened it and there is no H.
If you put a H in it, you'llnever find me.
But just find me on LinkedIn.
I mean, it's pretty easy enoughto find me there.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
Excellent, and we do have guest bio pages now, so
we'll put all of thatinformation linked to this
episode as well, so that itdoesn't get in contact with you
Again.
I look forward to seeing yousoon.
I'll see you next week and Iwill pick your brain.
Be ready.

Speaker 3 (01:33:42):
I'll be ready, all right, thank you so much have a
good day, ciao, ciao.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
Catch you later Take care Bye.
Thank you, chris, for your timefor another episode of In the
Dynamics Corner Chair, and thankyou to our guests for
participating.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
Thank you, brad, for your time.
It is a wonderful episode ofDynamics Corner Chair.
I would also like to thank ourguests for joining us.
Thank you for all of ourlisteners tuning in as well.
You can find Brad atdeveloperlifecom, that is,
d-v-l-p-r-l-i-f-e dot com, andyou can interact with them via

(01:34:25):
Twitter, dprlife.
You can also find me atmatalinoio, m-a-t-a-l-i-n-o dot
i-o, and my Twitter handle ismatalino16.
And see, you can see thoselinks down below in the show
notes.
Again, thank you everyone.
Thank you and take care.

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