January 15, 2025 • 43 mins
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Dr. Sarah Ballantyne, PhD is the founder of Nutrivore.com and New York Times best-selling author of Nutrivore: The Radical New Science for Getting the Nutrients You Need from the Food You Eat. She creates educational resources to help people improve their day-to-day diet and lifestyle choices, empowered and informed by the most current evidenced-based scientific research. Dr. Sarah began her career as a science communicator and health educator when she launched her original website in 2011. Since then, Dr. Sarah has continued to follow the science—diving deep into immune health, metabolic health, gut microbiome health, nutritional sciences, and the compelling evidence for health at any size—while also observing the harm of healthism, diet culture, dogmatic misinformation and predatory marketing. With Nutrivore, Dr. Sarah has created a positive and inclusive approach to dietary guidance, based in science and devoid of dogma, using nutrient density and sufficiency as its basic principles: Nourishment, not judgment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa (00:00):
Well think, well live well podcast.
I'm Lisa Salsbury, and this isepisode 129, how the neutral
four approach helps with weightloss with Dr.
Sarah Ballantine.
Welcome to eat well.
Well, the podcast for busy womenwho want to lose weight without
constantly counting, tracking,or stressing over every bite.
(00:22):
I'm Lisa Salsbury, a certifiedhealth weight loss and life
coach, and most importantly, arecovered chronic dieter here.
You'll learn to listen to yourbody and uncover the reasons
you're reaching for food.
When you're not truly hungry,freeing you to focus on a
healthier, more fulfillingapproach to eating.
Before we dive into our episodewith Dr.
(00:43):
Sarah, I wanted to remind youthat for the month of January, I
have a special promotion on myjumpstart, your weight loss
program.
If you're a woman who wants tofeel confident inside and out,
who's tired of feeling likeyou're on a dieting hamster
wheel.
And you battle that yo-yo ofbinging and restricting food.
I want you to get started rightthis year with the jumpstart,
(01:03):
your weight loss, check the linkin the show notes for all the
details.
In a nutshell, this is a single90 minute one-on-one coaching
session that is going to betailored to your exact needs.
you'll leave with a plan thatwill get you going on your
weight, loss and health goalsand set you up for success.
You'll hear a lot in today'sepisode about why we want to get
you off that up and down dietingrollercoaster.
(01:26):
So this mini program from me isa perfect companion to what Dr.
Sarah and I will be talkingabout today.
Check out that link in the shownotes for all the particulars.
Okay.
Let's get into my conversationwith Dr.
Sarah Ballantine.
Welcome back to the eat well, think well, live well
podcast.
I am so excited to have Dr.
Sarah here for another episode.
(01:47):
Last week we focused on thenutrients in our diet, how to
get more nutrients.
The food families and diversity.
If you miss that, be sure, sureto go and listen, but we are
going to be talking this week alittle bit more about how these
nutrients really are affectingour diet and how we can kind of.
Use this approach to, as many ofmy listeners and clients want to
(02:11):
do is to lose a little bit ofweight, but without the
restriction.
I told you earlier that I, sayconstantly, and I think it's in
my Instagram bio that Iencourage people to check in
with their bodies, not a dietapp.
We don't need to be checking inwith a diet app to see how many
calories we have left or to betold what to do.
I really want people to, Tostart having some confidence
(02:32):
with what their body is tellingthem.
And, um, and I know you feelreally similar to that.
So welcome back.
Dr. Sarah (02:38):
Thank you so much.
Lisa (02:40):
So you talk a little bit about dieters in the book and
you do have this.
statistic, 35 percent of normaldieters will progress to
pathological dieting and 20 to25 percent of those will develop
an eating disorder.
And I want to say, and I'vetalked about this in past
episodes, there is a differencebetween having a full blown
(03:02):
eating disorder and eatingdisorder.
and disordered eating.
I would definitely say I was indisordered eating when I was
counting calories and especiallywhen I started in with counting
macros just because it gave me alot of anxiety if I wasn't
hitting those macros plus orminus five every single day like
I was It wasn't a fun game forme.
Some people were like, Oh, it'slike playing Tetris.
(03:23):
And I'm like, no, not a fungame, just anxiety through the
roof.
So I don't know that that was afull eating disorder.
I don't know if that was fullorthorexia.
um, but I was definitely eatingin a disordered way when I'm
eating lunch meat from therefrigerator, like standing in
front of it, just to try to meetmy protein macro and like
batting my kid's hands away.
Like, no, I've already weighedthose grapes.
(03:44):
Don't eat that.
Like that's disordered.
Dr. Sarah (03:47):
Yes.
Yeah.
Lisa (03:49):
diets, they're sold to us as healthy eating.
How does this happen?
How does it happen that we havethis progression?
Dr. Sarah (03:56):
So, um, diets are sold to us as healthy eating,
but they actually set us up tofail.
And our inevitable failure isrequired for the continued
success of the 200 billion ishper year diet and weight loss
industry.
(04:18):
So when we are sold a diet, weare sold, uh, a path to weight
loss, right?
I mean, this is most diets.
I mean, there, there's certainlysome that are more focused on,
on health.
Um, but in general, the, thisindustry is, is focused on us
wanting to achieve, a societalideal of beauty that, uh, we are
(04:39):
confronted with everywhere allthe time.
there's a million ways every daythat we are told that we have
more value in a smaller body.
And we're told that the way thatwe get there is, uh, through
restriction, right?
So we are reducing our caloriesor reducing our carb grams,
reducing our fat grams, uh,cutting out whole food groups,
(04:59):
right?
There's lots of differentstructures.
There's a couple of things thathappen when we engage with a
restrictive diet.
So there's physiologicaladaptations and there's
psychological adaptations.
Um, and these are the two thingsthat happen that cause our
inevitable failure.
So the psychological adaptation,when you restrict food.
Uh, that increases foodobsession and food fixation.
(05:22):
You're thinking about that foodmore.
Um, that can drive food seekingbehavior.
It makes us more susceptible toemotional eating.
So more likely to, eat more foodwhen we have heightened,
especially negative emotions,right?
We're stressed.
We're upset.
it also increases the likelihoodof disordered eating patterns
and eventually developing aneating disorder magnifies,
(05:44):
right?
It magnifies cravings.
Um, and what it does is it,increases something called
disinhibition.
So disinhibition, is our levelof control, right?
Sort of thinking about athought.
So what happens is we wererestricting, restricting
cravings are increased.
We're fixating on that food andthen something will happen,
(06:06):
right?
So maybe it was that bad day andthe emotional, uh, eating is, is
starting to play out.
Maybe it was, um, I've beendoing this for so long and now
I'm at this birthday party andoh my gosh, that cake is my
favorite type of cake.
And I really, I've been reallymissing that cake.
Lisa (06:21):
And I noticed the thought to like, I deserve this.
I've been so good.
I deserve this is so, so,common, but yeah, keep
Dr. Sarah (06:28):
Or, or, uh, the, the opposite, right?
There's a lot of rationalizationthat happens, right?
So sometimes the opposite is,well, I already wrecked my diet
with that other thing, right?
Like there's, there's, I mean,there's a lot of, uh, really
destructive self talk that, thatgoes behind.
What is not really a decision,right?
It's really a compulsion.
It's really disinhibition,right?
It's, I am no longer inhibited.
(06:50):
I, right, I was inhibited whileI was in control and now I'm
disinhibited.
Um, there's also personalitytraits that go into our level of
disinhibition.
If we're not getting enoughsleep, that increases our
disinhibition.
If we're stressed, thatincreases our disinhibition.
So we have that moment where wegive in, right?
we eat the thing that wasagainst our rules, right?
It's not according to our dietplan.
(07:11):
And what happens is when we havebeen restricting, when we hit
that moment of disinhibition, itcauses all of our health
behaviors to unravel.
So that is the yo yo, right?
That is the, I didn't eat enoughearlier in the day.
And now that I'm allowing myselfto eat food, I can't control
what I'm eating.
Right.
Uh, that adds a diet patternthat's sometimes called sumo
(07:31):
dieting.
Um, that is my diet modedefault.
Uh, when I'm in my past, when I,did every restrictive diet that
exists.
Um, that is, you know, well, Iate the cake at the birthday
party last night.
So I might as well have the, youknow, delicious breakfast that
I've been missing right this
Lisa (07:49):
That's so funny that you use that phrase.
That's exactly what I call it.
Your might as well eats.
Like, let's eliminate the mightas well eats.
Like, just have the cake andthen have your regular breakfast
the next morning.
Dr. Sarah (08:02):
So, so that, that is the value of a non restrictive
mindset.
So let's, let's get there, butlet's also talk about the
physiological adaptationsbecause that's, it's where those
two meet that is so harmful.
Um, so we have the psychologicaladaptation to the restrictive
mindset.
So when we think about diet interms of, um, What I'm missing
out on, right?
(08:22):
What am I depriving myself of?
That eventually sets us up to nolonger have control over our
food choices.
We've got this whole other setof adaptations that are
happening, and these areadaptations to the caloric
deficit.
So the higher the caloricdeficit, right, the more
aggressive a diet that we'refollowing, the, the bigger these
adaptations are.
So one is a drop.
(08:43):
in our metabolism.
So there's a small drop in basalmetabolic rate.
There's an even bigger drop inwhat's called non exercise
activity thermogenesis.
So this is the calories that weburn every day doing things that
are not exercise.
So it's things like fidgeting,but it's also things like I
passed a mess on the floor and Iwent and got You know, a cloth
(09:04):
and some cleaner to wipe it up,right?
Um, it's the, oh, um, I thinkthat I'm not sure if the mails
come today.
Let me walk down to the bottomof the driveway and check,
right?
It's like the small things likethat and the manifestation of a
lowering of non exerciseactivity.
Thermogenesis feels like lowermotivation.
(09:26):
to move.
Feels like walking past the, thefood drips down the, the, the
cabinet, the kitchen cabinetsthat your kids left and going,
Oh, I'll clean that later.
Right.
Or there's laundry to fold.
Uh, I'll do it tomorrow.
Right.
It kind of manifests as this,like just lack of motivation to
(09:47):
do small tasks that involvemovement.
We also have an increase inhunger.
over time.
So this is an increase in ahunger hormone called ghrelin,
which is the hormone that makesus feel hungry.
So we have this rise in ghrelinover time and less of a
suppression after we eat.
(10:08):
So basically we are hungrierbetween meals and less satisfied
after a meal.
So I'm burning fewer calories.
Because my basal metabolic rateis lower, that's, um, mediated
through thyroid hormone.
And I'm not moving my body asmuch outside of my workout at
the gym.
Uh, and I'm hungrier.
Oh, and by the way, I'm cravingfood and I'm more susceptible to
(10:29):
emotional eating.
Um, and when I do give in andhave that moment of
disinhibition, I'm not gonnahave control over what I'm
eating.
So now I'm hungrier.
I don't have control over whatI'm eating, and it takes fewer
calories for me to have acalorie excess where I am
storing stored energy because ofthat drop in metabolism.
That is what drives the yo yo,right?
(10:51):
That is what, what drives the, Iwas on the diet, then I was
white knuckling the diet, thenI'm off the diet.
And the problem is is that everytime we go through one of those
cycles, right?
Uh, yo yo diet cycles, weightregain cycles, is that actually
increases our health risks,right?
Our health risks are increasedwith every single time we lose
(11:13):
weight and then gain it backagain for cardiovascular
disease, type 2 diabetes,metabolic syndrome, compared to
we have, if we had never dieted.
In the first place, and the factthat we think it's our fault
that we think that I wasn'tstrong enough.
I didn't have enough willpower.
I wasn't disciplined enough,right that I'm weak, like we
(11:34):
internalize that as I failed thediet.
Meanwhile, no, the diet failedus.
We were set up to fail from thevery beginning.
That was how that diet was meantto work.
So because we think we failed.
We do the next one.
We buy the next diet plan,right?
We just, we, we keep going.
And we've been doing this nowfor decades.
(11:54):
Right for generations,
Lisa (11:56):
Mhmm.
Dr. Sarah (11:58):
of us have been, uh, so every time we go through one
of those diet cycles, our bodycomposition will become less
metabolically healthy becausewhen you lose weight, especially
when you lose weight quickly,um, especially when you lose
weight outside of a high proteindiet and strength training
activity, you lose lean mass,right?
(12:19):
So you lose muscle mass everytime you're losing weight when
you're on the upward swing ofthe yo yo and you're gaining
that weight back again.
You've, you gain back the fatstorage, right?
So every time we go through acycle, our body composition is,
uh, becoming one that's moremetabolically unhealthy.
Um, we're increasing our healthrisks.
(12:40):
And that is also why it's soeasy to like lose 20 pounds,
gain 30, right?
It's that adaptation.
The body is fighting these twohigh energy deficits.
Um, this restrictive mindset.
And so we're actually.
making ourselves more unhealthyin the pursuit of what we are
sold as health, right?
(13:01):
We're sold this picture ofhealth of what, you know, models
look like on the cover of amagazine.
And that, if I can do anythingwith my work with Nutribor,
That's, that's what I want toput an end to, like, dieting
does not work, right?
Um, restriction is, notsomething that helps us stay
(13:22):
consistent, right?
It's actually the opposite.
And so that's why, like, if,again, if, if you, someone has a
diet that they love and it worksfor them and they can stay
consistent with it, Nutrivor isa knowledge base that can help
them tweak their food choices tofill nutritional gaps.
But I would say the default modeon Nutrivor is an anti diet.
(13:43):
Type structure right to do sowithout restriction so that we
are achieving what I callsustainable nutrition right so
that we are adopting thoselifelong healthier eating
patterns as healthy habits rightso that we're developing just
like this is just the way I eat.
It's not something I do for ashort period of time and then I
(14:03):
go off again.
I am.
Intentionally incorporating whatI call quality of life foods,
what I might have in the oldendays called a junk food, or a
cheat food, or I might as wellhave food, right?
Now I call those quality of lifefoods and I find ways to
intentionally incorporate thoseso that I make sure I'm getting
enough joy from my diet that Ican stick to my overall healthy
(14:26):
eating patterns.
And I think it's, it's a bigdifference in, like for me, like
I've lost over 100 pounds threetimes, That is, that is the
thing that I have learnedthrough, uh, hopefully the third
and final time, because knock onsome, some wood there.
But that is the, that is thething that's different this
time, is it's not throughrestriction, it's through
(14:47):
permission.
Lisa (14:49):
I find that, my clients get really weirded out when I
instruct them to plan a, whatyou call a quality of life food
every day.
Dr. Sarah (14:57):
Yes,
Lisa (14:57):
Because, They come to me and they're like, well, I, you
know, I gave into this cravingor there were these, these
cookies.
And they feel really bad aboutit.
And I'm like, how many timesthis week did you plan something
like that?
Like if you're, I, I have waymore clients that are sweets is
their kind of quality of lifething.
I'm a, I'm a sweets person.
(15:18):
I did have one.
I will always remember her thatit was nachos for her.
She was all, all about thesalty, right?
So whatever it is for you.
I was like, how, how many timesa week are you planning a sweet
treat?
And inevitably it's like, well,zero, zero times.
And I'm like, that's, that'sincorrect.
We've missed something here.
And so every time I realizedthat I like, I have missed that
(15:40):
with a client, I'm like, Oh,okay.
That is the problem.
We need to plan that.
If you need that quality oflife, food every day.
I was like, just having thisconversation with my sister
yesterday.
Um, she was like, Oh, I madefudge.
Our dad always made fudge everyyear.
And so we all now make it he'spassed, but, We were talking
about like, oh gosh, now I havethis 13 by 9 pan of fudge, you
(16:01):
know, and she's like, but I justhad like, you know, one small
square and I'm like, yeah,that's how you do it.
You have the entire thing andyou give yourself permission, to
have one because it's not goinganywhere.
Like there's no shortage.
And I think that's when we giveourselves permission.
it's total permission to havethese foods.
Your brain gets on board andyou're like, Oh, you're not
(16:24):
going to restrict this.
Then we don't have to eat all ofit.
When you do.
Let us have it.
You
Dr. Sarah (16:29):
Also noting that it's very normal to have a transition
period where you do overdo it.
right?
That the permission, like you,you, if you go from restriction
to permission, you don't gostraight into moderation.
Lisa (16:40):
No,
Dr. Sarah (16:41):
You go into, I haven't been eating this food
and therefore I'm going to eatall of it for a little while.
Um, and that's, you know, that'sa normal part of this transition
is, It is having, you know,having some time where I ate all
of the fudge, whoops, but I'llmake some more tomorrow.
Like it, it is also kind ofnormal to have that transition
(17:03):
period and I would definitelyrecommend during that transition
period focusing on other thingsthat are going to, um, regulate
appetite and cravings.
So like getting more sleep,getting some low strain activity
like going out for a walk,making sure to eat three meals
per day, um, and making surethat those meals are balanced,
right?
So they've got Protein andfiber, carbs and fat, right?
(17:27):
Um, ideally nutrient densefoods.
But make, like, making sure tohave breakfast.
Making sure to eat enough forlunch, right?
I think, um, one of the thingsthat can really drive, uh,
feeling like we don't havecontrol when we are eating in
the evening is being, like, overhungry by the time dinner comes
(17:47):
around because we didn't fuelourselves well enough earlier in
the day.
So focusing on those otherthings along with permission can
help to, like, rain it in alittle bit while we're adjusting
to that different mindset.
I definitely, when first, Ifirst adopted permission, I
consumed more calories than mybody required.
Um, but that was part of thejourney and that's okay, right?
(18:10):
That's part of, it's part ofespecially, um, so you and I are
about the same age.
So, um, I had engaged inrestrictive diets from the time
I was like 12, I think, was whenI first became obese.
so, you know, when I startedreally trying to shift my
mindset around this at 45,right, three years ago.
(18:33):
Um, yeah, I had, I had beenengaged in restrictive mindsets
for like three and a halfdecades, right?
So, like, it's a lot ofprogramming.
To undo and it's, it's also, um,highly recommend therapy, right?
Uh, therapy is a, it's a great,it's a great thing to do in this
transition, just because I thinkwe don't necessarily realize how
(18:55):
much emotional processing weavoid.
in favor of food as comfort.
And, and not, not that, not, notthat everyone, that's not
everyone, but certainly that wasthe case for me.
Lisa (19:10):
And I actually just did an episode on that on the three
patterns of why we emotionallyeat for comfort, for
compensation for celebration.
So yeah, it's definitely becausefood works.
Food works on a neurotransmitterlevel to make us feel better.
Um, okay, before we get off toomuch, I want to go back to when
you were talking about the yo yodieting and kind of messing up
(19:33):
our metabolic rate, messing upour kind of body composition.
You and I have both done this inthe past up and down.
And for me with, um, fourpregnancies and the pregnancy
and the nursing.
And I, I mean, I feel like Ikind of created a wreck and I
just, I feel more metabolicallyhealthy at this point in my
(19:54):
life.
I've been strength training nowfor, I think, I can't remember.
I think six or seven yearsstraight.
Um, which has made a bigdifference.
I, I have, although I don'tcount protein macros anymore,
like I did when I was macrocounting, I have started to
understand better the importanceof a higher protein diet, not
(20:15):
only to help with cravings, butjust to maintain that muscle
mass.
And so I eat higher protein.
not to count, but because I knowthat's what's good for me.
Um, so, you know, you can dothese things that you did in
past diets, but from a betterperspective.
mindset.
So my question is with all ofthat going on, and for those
listeners that have been in thatyo yo space, how long does it
(20:36):
take to regain metabolic health?
Like how long until we cancorrect, right?
Because if we've done thatroller coaster and you're like,
now it's worse.
If I'm a listener out therestill in the midst of that, if
I'm me, you know, eight yearsago, I'm still in the midst of
my, my fad dieting, my, yo yo.
I'm feeling defeated.
(20:56):
Is it possible?
And how long will that take?
Dr. Sarah (20:59):
Yeah, I don't know the answer to that question.
Um, my, my guess based on whatI, do know is that it's
individual, right?
So it's, it's it, right?
Are we pre diabetic, Right.
Right.
What, like, there's going to be,and, and how well
Lisa (21:18):
how bad did it get?
Dr. Sarah (21:20):
Yeah.
So like, where, what am Istarting from?
What other factors do I havegoing into this?
Right.
So like, do I have a geneticpredisposition to diabetes?
Right.
It's like, so, uh, what otherthings do I have going on that
are part of this equation?
And, you know, the thing withmetabolic health is diets only
one piece, right?
So, um, Our activity is a hugepiece, right?
(21:44):
So not just, um, not just mybody composition, how much
muscle I have, but how much am Imoving my body on a day to day
basis?
Um, how much sleep I'm gettingas a huge piece and how much
stress time under is a hugepiece.
So like also how well am I.
You know, figuring out the more,like, holistic, uh, approach to
(22:04):
metabolic health, I think, wouldalso change the time frame.
So what I can kind of share frommy perspective, um, so a big
part of my journey, so when I,abruptly went into menopause at
the beginning of the pandemicwhen also my gym closed and, uh,
everything shut down and I justwent from not being menopausal.
(22:26):
I had a perimenopause thatlasted zero, zero days.
Um, and I, yeah, it was not, itwas not fun.
I was also 15 years younger thanmy mom, which is, uh, just a
cruel, cruel joke, uh, that Idon't think is funny universe,
just saying that.
Um, But, uh, but I, um, Istarted to gain weight in a, in
(22:47):
a way that was not, proportionalto what I was doing, right?
Um, and it felt like I had, Ihad maintained my weight loss at
that point for, gosh, uh, Nine,eight or nine years, and then it
just felt like all of my toolsdidn't work.
Um, you know, I can look back atwhat I was eating, and, and I
know that I was eating more.
(23:09):
I know that I was doing morefood seeking behavior, so I was
doing more, like, Hmm, what's inthe pantry right now?
Let me just grab a handful ofthis, right?
Like, I, I, I can see that, butit didn't, It didn't, at the
time, it didn't feel like a bigdifference.
you know, I wasn't, doingCrossFit anymore because my gym
had closed, but I was stillwalking a lot.
(23:30):
I had a home gym.
I was still trying to work out.
It didn't feel like a really bigdifference.
Um, and then I hit a, a momentwhere I just really had to
embrace healthy habits for thehealthy habits.
And really, I just had to stopweighing myself and I just had
to like, you know, Let, let, letmyself focus on eating more
(23:53):
vegetables, eating more seafood,eating more legumes, um, you
know, uh, hiking in the morningwith my dog.
When I got back to the gym,right.
Doing my power lifting.
And I really had to like notfocus on, my weight.
And, uh, it wasn't until acouple of years ago that I was
like, okay, I'm at a pointwhere.
(24:15):
I've embraced a lot of bodypositivity concepts, but my
knees hurt all the time.
and I had actually like fallen,I tripped and fell.
I mean, just like on my ownfeet.
I didn't trip over anything.
Uh, it was in front of a roomfull of strangers, which was not
my favorite experience.
Um, uh, I really bit it in frontof a room full of strangers, but
(24:37):
I landed really hard on myknees.
Not hard enough to breakanything, but like, They were
already complaining all thetime.
I was getting more fibromyalgiasymptoms.
And then, there's like, it wassuch deep internal bruising, and
it just took months.
Months for my knees to do betterand then I pulled a muscle in my
back back squatting Right justit just kind of felt like out of
(25:00):
out of nowhere and I just I hitthis moment where I was like, I
really need to be okay with howmy body looks now and figure
This out.
It just so happened that thiswas all around the same time
that I was building Nutrivor andreally looking at The you know
(25:21):
serving guidelines for otherfoods and that was my path,
right?
So that was my starting estrogenI think is a big factor here as
replacement therapy inmenopause.
I am a big fan huge huge fan
Lisa (25:35):
Same, same,
Dr. Sarah (25:36):
So all the fan but yeah, it it it was Then it had
to become something that I wasmore intentional about, but
also, you know, as you said,intentional to include my
quality of life foods.
So, I managed to lose 100pounds, again, hopefully for the
third and final time, eatingdessert almost every day.
(25:57):
Right?
Like, that, that became a reallyimportant piece of it, and
therapy, um, and addressing,some disordered, some disordered
eating patterns, uh, that weredefinitely, causing me to
overeat.
So, you know, For me, it was nota straight line journey, right?
(26:18):
It was first having to reallyembrace, functionality, over,
appearances, and then realizingthat the functionality was being
lost as well, and then having toreally focus on that, and then
finding ways to add more.
(26:38):
Are vegetables, right?
So I have, I'm a person withlike a big, big appetite.
Uh, my default is a lot morecalories than my body needs if
I'm just eating intuitively.
so I need to, I need to dostrategies like high volume
eating.
So eating a lot of vegetablesand salads and fruit, right?
Like just like those, thosefoods that, that fill you up
(27:00):
because they've got so muchwater and fiber and lots of
vitamins and minerals andphytonutrients.
So like really nutrient densefoods.
And I really had to work ongiving up snacking.
That was a really, uh, a reallytough one for me, but that's
where all of the, the excesscalories were coming.
And I don't need snacks forother reasons, right?
Like some people do, right?
If you've got reactivehypoglycemia or gastritis,
(27:21):
right?
There's lots of healthconditions where, where snacking
is, is an important, approachfor just getting in the, the
food.
it wasn't for me.
So from a, you know, metabolichealth perspective and a
timeframe perspective, I wouldsay it took a year.
It took a year, like not, itwasn't all of the, the weight
(27:43):
that I lost, right.
I lost, I lost weight over maybea year and a half.
Um, but it took about a year toget from feeling very,
unregulated to feeling fullyregulated, right?
And to see my metabolic healthmarkers this time were never
(28:03):
really out of whack because Iwas, I started really active.
I started eating a healthy diet.
It just needed those littletweaks.
but it was, yeah, I would sayabout a year in before I hit
that like, okay, this is, theneeds feel good.
The sleep is good, the stress isreally low, the blood work looks
great.
(28:24):
and yeah, so it's, I it'sgradual improvement through the
whole time, right?
It's not like a line where yougo here, I cross the line and
now I'm good, right?
Lisa (28:32):
healthy.
right?
It's just that it is possiblethough.
Like we've done this damage overthe yo yo dieting, but I just
want people to realize like allis not lost.
Dr. Sarah (28:44):
Well, absolutely.
I mean, I just got my first pullup.
four months ago.
I've never been able to do apull up ever before in my life.
And, you know, I've been able tobuild enough muscle as a
menopausal woman.
thank you estrogen.
I, like, really, thank youestrogen.
This has been a goal of mineevery year since I started
(29:06):
powerlifting in 2013
Lisa (29:10):
Oh,
Dr. Sarah (29:10):
Um, and I, I, I know I finally got a pull up, and so,
yes, you can, you can, what I'mtrying to say is you can adopt a
permissive approach.
You can stop dieting and you canstill reach both your short-term
health goals and support yourlong-term health.
You can do all of that, and infact.
(29:32):
finding that, that happy mediumwhere you're focusing on the
foods to add, where you'refocusing on the nutrients,
you're focusing on mealsprepared in ways that are tasty
so you feel satisfied from yourmeals, so that you can eat those
treats in moderation.
Finding that is how you find thesustainability, right?
(29:53):
And that's how you can achievethose short term health goals
now.
And really.
Like feel.
Like, it's not, a thing that youhave to stop, right?
It's not a thing, you know, I, Ilost those 15 pounds to go to my
sister's wedding and now I cando whatever, right?
Like, it becomes just the waythat we eat and that's where the
weight loss maintenance comesfrom.
Lisa (30:15):
totally.
I'm always like, you have tolose weight in a way that feels
like you could eat forever.
That's, that's the differencebetween our approach here.
And when you're saying like,we're not dieting, diets are
short term.
Diets are things that we do fora certain amount of time.
And I think that's one of themost damaging things about,
about diets is having a, I mean,how many times did I do a six
(30:37):
week slim down an eight weekbootcamp?
Uh, a 12 week, you know, Like itjust sends the message that you
just can, you just have to dothis for this short amount of
time.
And then you can go back toquote unquote, normal.
And that's not the way that'snot the way we get off the yo
yo.
It's not the way we maintainlong term health.
We want to add in things andwhat I call crowd out.
(30:58):
So we're like, what do I want tocrowd out of my diet?
And so we're like, I'm going tochoose more of these things.
Of beans or, you know, whateverthe, the nutrient dense foods
that you want to eat, when youput that in, you're naturally
crowding out something else.
And so really paying attentionto things that we want to, to
(31:19):
crowd out and to just kind ofsay, I'm just going to eat that
thing less often.
Another way that we can reallyget out of like the diet
mentality.
is to stop the moral judgmentsof food.
And I love how you say likequality of life foods, but
anytime that we label a foodgood or bad, we inevitably label
ourselves that same thing foreating it.
(31:41):
And how many times growing up,did you hear your mom or your
sister or your aunt say, Oh,I've been so good today.
I had a salad for lunch.
So I'm going to have this cookieor gosh, I've been so bad.
I had to grab fast food.
So I don't think I should eatdinner.
Like, we are good or bad forwhat we ate, and that is
(32:03):
unequivocally false.
That's false.
And, I, I know that you,
Dr. Sarah (32:09):
yeah, no, I was gonna say I 100 percent agree.
It also propels healthism,right?
So we, we take on those moraljudgments of ourselves, but we
also make assumptions aboutother people, based on what we
assume bad foods they must beeating to look a certain way.
Right.
knowing absolutely nothing abouttheir situation.
(32:29):
And, we assume if people look acertain way, they're eating the
good foods and they, they look acertain way.
They're eating the bad foods.
And we, we make thismoralization of, well, they're
Eating bad foods so they deservewhat's happening to them, right?
Like that, that healthist, uh,really destructive, uh, sort of,
assumption about other people isdriven by the same moralization
(32:53):
of foods.
Lisa (32:54):
Yeah, and we can think that about ourselves, too.
Well, I deserve to be in thisunhealthy body because I've been
eating junk food.
And That's just not, not true.
Dr. Sarah (33:04):
That's not it.
that's not it at all.
Lisa (33:06):
I, I think, too, it's kind of dangerous to even get into
the food is medicine kind ofapproach because, again, it
feels like, you know, Imentioned my dad earlier.
My dad.
was diagnosed with prostatecancer at 55 and he lived an
extremely healthy lifestyle.
We grew up on land.
He had a huge garden.
(33:27):
He had an orchard.
I mean, just the amount ofvariety just on his land.
I mean, there, he grew at least25 different things just on his
home garden.
Plus grew his own beef.
Like we ate grass fed beefbefore grass fed beef was a
thing, you know, and he workedan active job.
He, Rarely was in his office.
Usually he was out and about allthe things outside Northern
(33:49):
California.
I've got plenty of sun and.
I'm like, if food is medicine,then it didn't work for him.
And I can't think that waybecause then it does get into
this moral judgment where you'relike, well, what did you do
wrong?
Nothing.
He did nothing wrong.
He was just living his life in ahuman body and human bodies
sometimes do that.
Sometimes it's part of being ahuman
Dr. Sarah (34:10):
takes one cell.
Just takes one cell.
to decide it's going to divideuncontrollably.
so, I think it's really helpful.
You know, one of the things thatI Um, I know we already talked
about last week is, that food isnot a guarantee of great health
forever.
It helps to put statistics tothat.
So diet plus lifestyle plushealth related behaviors account
(34:34):
for 40 to 50 percent of healthoutcomes.
So food plus lifestyle.
Sleep and stress management andactivity plus whether or not I
smoke or drink, right?
All of that is 40 to 50 percentof health outcomes.
10 to 20 percent comes fromaccess and quality of medical
care.
30 percent comes from geneticsand epigenetics and 20 percent
(34:55):
is social determinants ofhealth.
And there's ways that socialdeterminants of health affect
things like access to You know,whole foods, right?
So that can still also feed intothe other 40 to 50 percent
statistics.
And so, you know, it's, I don'tsay that to make it everyone
throw up their hands and go,well, why bother?
(35:16):
40 to 50 percent is huge.
That's, that's a, that's a hugedifference.
But I think that one of themost.
You know, how, like, how do yourespect the power of food and
how, how much it can change ourhealth fates while not giving it
all the power?
Right?
And, and not engaging with that,that I think you're right,
(35:39):
right?
The, the problem with food asmedicine, as a philosophy is it
makes us feel like whensomething does go wrong with our
health, that it's our fault,right?
That we didn't do somethingcorrectly.
The other thing that happens ispeople then don't want to use
medicine as medicine becausethey want to heal themselves
with food.
But you know what?
Medicine's pretty great.
(36:00):
There's some awesome, awesomethings that medicine can do,
right?
That's that 10 to 20 percent ofhealth outcomes, medical care,
right?
We want to use all of the toolsat our disposal to achieve our
best health.
And that, that means bothsetting realistic expectations,
um, taking, you know, feelingempowered by what we can change
(36:20):
and also, accepting the, thelimits of, of what's
controllable in a very chaoticuniverse.
Lisa (36:27):
So, Nutrivore is something that we add to our diet
patterns.
It's something that we want tokind of focus on.
what new species can we add toour diet?
how can we fill nutrient gaps?
Um, yeah.
But if you're someone who needs,like, more of, like, a stricter
formula, you're coming off ofthat, diet rollercoaster.
(36:48):
I, I have a lot of clients thatare like, I just don't know what
I'm allowed to eat anymore.
it feels confusing.
And a lot of times I'm like,hey, like, what diet did you
feel amazing on?
And they'll give me the name,you know?
And like, for me, it was likeSouth Beach diet.
Why?
Because I was eating tons offruits and vegetables.
(37:09):
That's why.
what made you feel great oncounting macros?
I was eating higher protein,like grab those things that you
liked, and then you can kind oflayer the Nutrivor on, on top
but people are still like, Ijust need a formula.
because I did really well whenWhatever, fill in the blank name
of diet told me, these are thefoods you can eat.
(37:29):
And these are the meals I wantyou to prepare.
And I don't do that.
And you don't do that.
We don't provide meal plans.
We don't provide for breakfast,eat this for lunch, or there's
like, here's some general ideas.
Like, what do you do with peoplethat are like, I need more
direction.
I need more formulaic things.
Dr. Sarah (37:46):
I'm, I'm happy to provide a formula.
so I, you know, I think for alot of people focusing on just
the eating patterns, right?
Like, half of my plate coveredin fruits and vegetables, right?
Making sure that every meal hasprotein, fiber, carbs, and fat,
right?
getting used to eating threemeals per day, working on
dietary diversity, working oneating more whole foods,
(38:06):
intentionally incorporatingquality of life foods as a tool
for consistency.
I think for lots of people, it'sactually.
Really important to start there,but for the people who need a
formula.
I have a meal based formula thatI call the Nutri4 Meal Map.
It is absolutely a rip off of myplate, but it does have some
important differences.
Um, so how I define starchyfoods and protein foods I think
(38:27):
is, is the big difference.
Um, there's some differences inrelative proportions as well.
that is available in my book oras a free download when you sign
up for my weekly newsletter.
and then the other one issomething called the Nutri4
Weekly Serving Matrix, which isvery specific.
Targets serving targets per dayor per week.
It incorporates the meal mapinto it.
So it assumes three meals a day,according to the meal map, and
(38:50):
then it gives you targets forvery specific food families that
are really nutritionallyimportant.
When you follow the Nutra forWeekly Serving matrix that will
typically get you, your fullmeeting your nutritional needs.
So all of your vitamins,minerals, protein, fiber, those
really important heart healthyfats at it.
Depending on exactly what yourenergy requirements are, like 50
(39:12):
to 75 percent of your caloricintake, so it builds in as much
possible room for those qualityof life foods as possible.
Um, and that is the goal.
And so that is very formulaic,but without measuring right
without logging things in anapp.
without having to weigh or, or,or measure anything.
So it uses all eyeballmeasurements.
So we call a serving ofvegetables about the size of a
(39:34):
fist.
We call a serving of a, of ameat or fish about the palm of
her hand.
Right?
So it's all using those sort oflike visual approximations for
servings because that'ssufficient, right?
That is absolutely sufficientfor most people.
And certainly.
A great place to start learninghow to eat intuitively, right?
Kind of just be able to look athow much vegetables on your
(39:54):
plate and know if that's twoservings or three servings,
right?
so that is also available in mybook or as a digital product on,
on my website.
so, you know, I've, I've gotthose formulas for the people
who really, who really need aformula.
Uh, and I've got the like.
flexible guidelines that arevery highly adaptable to the
(40:15):
person, to really just focus onthe overall eating patterns to
kind of like break free fromdiet culture.
I mean, I would say my book isthe best resource for that
because all of that is in there.
Lisa (40:27):
And it's just so inspirational too.
I mean, I just love to listen tothings that are like, Hey, if
you do this, like you reduceyour all cause mortality.
Like I just love to do thingslike that because that's, that's
what I'm all about is, is thatlongevity.
piece as well, and, and the mainreason why I do what I do and
the way I eat, so.
Oh my goodness, Dr.
(40:48):
Sarah, this has been so, so funto talk to you.
So good.
is there, anything else youwanted, just remind people of
where to find you or informationthat you offer online?
Dr. Sarah (40:59):
Yes, my home base is Nutrivore.com, um, so if you
really want, like, nitty gritty,you want to learn about all the
different ways that nutrientsinteract with our health and
disease risk, you want to learnabout all the nutrients that
different foods contain, youwant to learn about the eating
patterns that will help you getthe full range of nutrients that
you need, that is where, like,the more academic, like, super
detailed articles live.
(41:20):
My book, Nutrivore, The RadicalNew Science for Getting the
Nutrients You Need from the youeat is definitely the more.
Like approachable for theaverage person resource, a
little bit less deep diveacademic y, and has also like
all of the like psychology,there's a appendix in the back
with 17 tips for healthy andsustainable weight loss, which I
(41:41):
feel like we probably coveredhalf of, uh, on this podcast
episode.
and I mean, I would say my bookis, um, If I had to say like,
what is like the main goal?
It's like making nutritionpersonal, right?
It's like understanding howspecific nutrients relate to
your specific health concerns,right?
That is sort of the goal of thebook by way of motivating
(42:02):
nutrient dense eating outsideof, of diet mentality.
Um, and then I'm at Dr.
Sarah Ballantyne on TikTok,YouTube, Facebook.
Instagram threads, um,technically Pinterest, although
I haven't been active therelately, and I just, uh, created
a blue sky account.
So, at least for right now, I'mplaying around and seeing if I'm
(42:24):
there too.
Um, so, yeah, and that's, socialmedia is where I share much
more.
Pardon the pun.
Bite sized information aboutnutrition.
And also my newsletter, myweekly newsletter is much more
bite sized.
So it's much more like smalllittle like fun facts and
tidbits.
because I am a fun fact drivenperson.
(42:44):
That is what my brain loves islike those little nuggets of
knowledge that if only trivialpursuit.
had, uh, categories fornutrition.
I would be so good at that game.
sadly, I don't remember YogiBear quotes.
so unfortunately my husbandalways wins, but that's okay.
That's okay.
I beat him at Scrabble, so it'sfine.
Lisa (43:03):
Alright, well, thanks again.
It's been such a pleasure tomeet you.
And we will put all of thoselinks in the show notes.
Thanks!
Dr. Sarah (43:09):
Thank you again.
I'm so glad you tuned in forpart two with Dr.
Sarah Ballantine.
If today's insights resonatedwith you and you're ready to
make lasting changes in yourhealth journey.
I love to help first.
Don't forget to check out thatjumpstart program.
I mentioned at the beginning ofthis episode to get you going
this year.
You can also book a freeconsultation session to see if
my 12 week.
(43:29):
One-on-one coaching program is abetter fit.
You can schedule that at thelink in the show notes.
Remember, it's not just aboutthe food.
It's about empowering yourselfwith choices that truly serve
you have a great week and asalways, thanks for listening and
sharing the eat well think.
Well live well podcast.
Well think, well live well podcast.
I'm Lisa Salsbury, and this isepisode 129, how the neutral
four approach helps with weightloss with Dr.
Sarah Ballantine.
Welcome to eat well.
Well, the podcast for busy womenwho want to lose weight without
constantly counting, tracking,or stressing over every bite.
(00:22):
I'm Lisa Salsbury, a certifiedhealth weight loss and life
coach, and most importantly, arecovered chronic dieter here.
You'll learn to listen to yourbody and uncover the reasons
you're reaching for food.
When you're not truly hungry,freeing you to focus on a
healthier, more fulfillingapproach to eating.
Before we dive into our episodewith Dr.
(00:43):
Sarah, I wanted to remind youthat for the month of January, I
have a special promotion on myjumpstart, your weight loss
program.
If you're a woman who wants tofeel confident inside and out,
who's tired of feeling likeyou're on a dieting hamster
wheel.
And you battle that yo-yo ofbinging and restricting food.
I want you to get started rightthis year with the jumpstart,
(01:03):
your weight loss, check the linkin the show notes for all the
details.
In a nutshell, this is a single90 minute one-on-one coaching
session that is going to betailored to your exact needs.
you'll leave with a plan thatwill get you going on your
weight, loss and health goalsand set you up for success.
You'll hear a lot in today'sepisode about why we want to get
you off that up and down dietingrollercoaster.
(01:26):
So this mini program from me isa perfect companion to what Dr.
Sarah and I will be talkingabout today.
Check out that link in the shownotes for all the particulars.
Okay.
Let's get into my conversationwith Dr.
Sarah Ballantine.
Welcome back to the eat well, think well, live well
podcast.
I am so excited to have Dr.
Sarah here for another episode.
(01:47):
Last week we focused on thenutrients in our diet, how to
get more nutrients.
The food families and diversity.
If you miss that, be sure, sureto go and listen, but we are
going to be talking this week alittle bit more about how these
nutrients really are affectingour diet and how we can kind of.
Use this approach to, as many ofmy listeners and clients want to
(02:11):
do is to lose a little bit ofweight, but without the
restriction.
I told you earlier that I, sayconstantly, and I think it's in
my Instagram bio that Iencourage people to check in
with their bodies, not a dietapp.
We don't need to be checking inwith a diet app to see how many
calories we have left or to betold what to do.
I really want people to, Tostart having some confidence
(02:32):
with what their body is tellingthem.
And, um, and I know you feelreally similar to that.
So welcome back.
Dr. Sarah (02:38):
Thank you so much.
Lisa (02:40):
So you talk a little bit about dieters in the book and
you do have this.
statistic, 35 percent of normaldieters will progress to
pathological dieting and 20 to25 percent of those will develop
an eating disorder.
And I want to say, and I'vetalked about this in past
episodes, there is a differencebetween having a full blown
(03:02):
eating disorder and eatingdisorder.
and disordered eating.
I would definitely say I was indisordered eating when I was
counting calories and especiallywhen I started in with counting
macros just because it gave me alot of anxiety if I wasn't
hitting those macros plus orminus five every single day like
I was It wasn't a fun game forme.
Some people were like, Oh, it'slike playing Tetris.
(03:23):
And I'm like, no, not a fungame, just anxiety through the
roof.
So I don't know that that was afull eating disorder.
I don't know if that was fullorthorexia.
um, but I was definitely eatingin a disordered way when I'm
eating lunch meat from therefrigerator, like standing in
front of it, just to try to meetmy protein macro and like
batting my kid's hands away.
Like, no, I've already weighedthose grapes.
(03:44):
Don't eat that.
Like that's disordered.
Dr. Sarah (03:47):
Yes.
Yeah.
Lisa (03:49):
diets, they're sold to us as healthy eating.
How does this happen?
How does it happen that we havethis progression?
Dr. Sarah (03:56):
So, um, diets are sold to us as healthy eating,
but they actually set us up tofail.
And our inevitable failure isrequired for the continued
success of the 200 billion ishper year diet and weight loss
industry.
(04:18):
So when we are sold a diet, weare sold, uh, a path to weight
loss, right?
I mean, this is most diets.
I mean, there, there's certainlysome that are more focused on,
on health.
Um, but in general, the, thisindustry is, is focused on us
wanting to achieve, a societalideal of beauty that, uh, we are
(04:39):
confronted with everywhere allthe time.
there's a million ways every daythat we are told that we have
more value in a smaller body.
And we're told that the way thatwe get there is, uh, through
restriction, right?
So we are reducing our caloriesor reducing our carb grams,
reducing our fat grams, uh,cutting out whole food groups,
(04:59):
right?
There's lots of differentstructures.
There's a couple of things thathappen when we engage with a
restrictive diet.
So there's physiologicaladaptations and there's
psychological adaptations.
Um, and these are the two thingsthat happen that cause our
inevitable failure.
So the psychological adaptation,when you restrict food.
Uh, that increases foodobsession and food fixation.
(05:22):
You're thinking about that foodmore.
Um, that can drive food seekingbehavior.
It makes us more susceptible toemotional eating.
So more likely to, eat more foodwhen we have heightened,
especially negative emotions,right?
We're stressed.
We're upset.
it also increases the likelihoodof disordered eating patterns
and eventually developing aneating disorder magnifies,
(05:44):
right?
It magnifies cravings.
Um, and what it does is it,increases something called
disinhibition.
So disinhibition, is our levelof control, right?
Sort of thinking about athought.
So what happens is we wererestricting, restricting
cravings are increased.
We're fixating on that food andthen something will happen,
(06:06):
right?
So maybe it was that bad day andthe emotional, uh, eating is, is
starting to play out.
Maybe it was, um, I've beendoing this for so long and now
I'm at this birthday party andoh my gosh, that cake is my
favorite type of cake.
And I really, I've been reallymissing that cake.
Lisa (06:21):
And I noticed the thought to like, I deserve this.
I've been so good.
I deserve this is so, so,common, but yeah, keep
Dr. Sarah (06:28):
Or, or, uh, the, the opposite, right?
There's a lot of rationalizationthat happens, right?
So sometimes the opposite is,well, I already wrecked my diet
with that other thing, right?
Like there's, there's, I mean,there's a lot of, uh, really
destructive self talk that, thatgoes behind.
What is not really a decision,right?
It's really a compulsion.
It's really disinhibition,right?
It's, I am no longer inhibited.
(06:50):
I, right, I was inhibited whileI was in control and now I'm
disinhibited.
Um, there's also personalitytraits that go into our level of
disinhibition.
If we're not getting enoughsleep, that increases our
disinhibition.
If we're stressed, thatincreases our disinhibition.
So we have that moment where wegive in, right?
we eat the thing that wasagainst our rules, right?
It's not according to our dietplan.
(07:11):
And what happens is when we havebeen restricting, when we hit
that moment of disinhibition, itcauses all of our health
behaviors to unravel.
So that is the yo yo, right?
That is the, I didn't eat enoughearlier in the day.
And now that I'm allowing myselfto eat food, I can't control
what I'm eating.
Right.
Uh, that adds a diet patternthat's sometimes called sumo
(07:31):
dieting.
Um, that is my diet modedefault.
Uh, when I'm in my past, when I,did every restrictive diet that
exists.
Um, that is, you know, well, Iate the cake at the birthday
party last night.
So I might as well have the, youknow, delicious breakfast that
I've been missing right this
Lisa (07:49):
That's so funny that you use that phrase.
That's exactly what I call it.
Your might as well eats.
Like, let's eliminate the mightas well eats.
Like, just have the cake andthen have your regular breakfast
the next morning.
Dr. Sarah (08:02):
So, so that, that is the value of a non restrictive
mindset.
So let's, let's get there, butlet's also talk about the
physiological adaptationsbecause that's, it's where those
two meet that is so harmful.
Um, so we have the psychologicaladaptation to the restrictive
mindset.
So when we think about diet interms of, um, What I'm missing
out on, right?
(08:22):
What am I depriving myself of?
That eventually sets us up to nolonger have control over our
food choices.
We've got this whole other setof adaptations that are
happening, and these areadaptations to the caloric
deficit.
So the higher the caloricdeficit, right, the more
aggressive a diet that we'refollowing, the, the bigger these
adaptations are.
So one is a drop.
(08:43):
in our metabolism.
So there's a small drop in basalmetabolic rate.
There's an even bigger drop inwhat's called non exercise
activity thermogenesis.
So this is the calories that weburn every day doing things that
are not exercise.
So it's things like fidgeting,but it's also things like I
passed a mess on the floor and Iwent and got You know, a cloth
(09:04):
and some cleaner to wipe it up,right?
Um, it's the, oh, um, I thinkthat I'm not sure if the mails
come today.
Let me walk down to the bottomof the driveway and check,
right?
It's like the small things likethat and the manifestation of a
lowering of non exerciseactivity.
Thermogenesis feels like lowermotivation.
(09:26):
to move.
Feels like walking past the, thefood drips down the, the, the
cabinet, the kitchen cabinetsthat your kids left and going,
Oh, I'll clean that later.
Right.
Or there's laundry to fold.
Uh, I'll do it tomorrow.
Right.
It kind of manifests as this,like just lack of motivation to
(09:47):
do small tasks that involvemovement.
We also have an increase inhunger.
over time.
So this is an increase in ahunger hormone called ghrelin,
which is the hormone that makesus feel hungry.
So we have this rise in ghrelinover time and less of a
suppression after we eat.
(10:08):
So basically we are hungrierbetween meals and less satisfied
after a meal.
So I'm burning fewer calories.
Because my basal metabolic rateis lower, that's, um, mediated
through thyroid hormone.
And I'm not moving my body asmuch outside of my workout at
the gym.
Uh, and I'm hungrier.
Oh, and by the way, I'm cravingfood and I'm more susceptible to
(10:29):
emotional eating.
Um, and when I do give in andhave that moment of
disinhibition, I'm not gonnahave control over what I'm
eating.
So now I'm hungrier.
I don't have control over whatI'm eating, and it takes fewer
calories for me to have acalorie excess where I am
storing stored energy because ofthat drop in metabolism.
That is what drives the yo yo,right?
(10:51):
That is what, what drives the, Iwas on the diet, then I was
white knuckling the diet, thenI'm off the diet.
And the problem is is that everytime we go through one of those
cycles, right?
Uh, yo yo diet cycles, weightregain cycles, is that actually
increases our health risks,right?
Our health risks are increasedwith every single time we lose
(11:13):
weight and then gain it backagain for cardiovascular
disease, type 2 diabetes,metabolic syndrome, compared to
we have, if we had never dieted.
In the first place, and the factthat we think it's our fault
that we think that I wasn'tstrong enough.
I didn't have enough willpower.
I wasn't disciplined enough,right that I'm weak, like we
(11:34):
internalize that as I failed thediet.
Meanwhile, no, the diet failedus.
We were set up to fail from thevery beginning.
That was how that diet was meantto work.
So because we think we failed.
We do the next one.
We buy the next diet plan,right?
We just, we, we keep going.
And we've been doing this nowfor decades.
(11:54):
Right for generations,
Lisa (11:56):
Mhmm.
Dr. Sarah (11:58):
of us have been, uh, so every time we go through one
of those diet cycles, our bodycomposition will become less
metabolically healthy becausewhen you lose weight, especially
when you lose weight quickly,um, especially when you lose
weight outside of a high proteindiet and strength training
activity, you lose lean mass,right?
(12:19):
So you lose muscle mass everytime you're losing weight when
you're on the upward swing ofthe yo yo and you're gaining
that weight back again.
You've, you gain back the fatstorage, right?
So every time we go through acycle, our body composition is,
uh, becoming one that's moremetabolically unhealthy.
Um, we're increasing our healthrisks.
(12:40):
And that is also why it's soeasy to like lose 20 pounds,
gain 30, right?
It's that adaptation.
The body is fighting these twohigh energy deficits.
Um, this restrictive mindset.
And so we're actually.
making ourselves more unhealthyin the pursuit of what we are
sold as health, right?
(13:01):
We're sold this picture ofhealth of what, you know, models
look like on the cover of amagazine.
And that, if I can do anythingwith my work with Nutribor,
That's, that's what I want toput an end to, like, dieting
does not work, right?
Um, restriction is, notsomething that helps us stay
(13:22):
consistent, right?
It's actually the opposite.
And so that's why, like, if,again, if, if you, someone has a
diet that they love and it worksfor them and they can stay
consistent with it, Nutrivor isa knowledge base that can help
them tweak their food choices tofill nutritional gaps.
But I would say the default modeon Nutrivor is an anti diet.
(13:43):
Type structure right to do sowithout restriction so that we
are achieving what I callsustainable nutrition right so
that we are adopting thoselifelong healthier eating
patterns as healthy habits rightso that we're developing just
like this is just the way I eat.
It's not something I do for ashort period of time and then I
(14:03):
go off again.
I am.
Intentionally incorporating whatI call quality of life foods,
what I might have in the oldendays called a junk food, or a
cheat food, or I might as wellhave food, right?
Now I call those quality of lifefoods and I find ways to
intentionally incorporate thoseso that I make sure I'm getting
enough joy from my diet that Ican stick to my overall healthy
(14:26):
eating patterns.
And I think it's, it's a bigdifference in, like for me, like
I've lost over 100 pounds threetimes, That is, that is the
thing that I have learnedthrough, uh, hopefully the third
and final time, because knock onsome, some wood there.
But that is the, that is thething that's different this
time, is it's not throughrestriction, it's through
(14:47):
permission.
Lisa (14:49):
I find that, my clients get really weirded out when I
instruct them to plan a, whatyou call a quality of life food
every day.
Dr. Sarah (14:57):
Yes,
Lisa (14:57):
Because, They come to me and they're like, well, I, you
know, I gave into this cravingor there were these, these
cookies.
And they feel really bad aboutit.
And I'm like, how many timesthis week did you plan something
like that?
Like if you're, I, I have waymore clients that are sweets is
their kind of quality of lifething.
I'm a, I'm a sweets person.
(15:18):
I did have one.
I will always remember her thatit was nachos for her.
She was all, all about thesalty, right?
So whatever it is for you.
I was like, how, how many timesa week are you planning a sweet
treat?
And inevitably it's like, well,zero, zero times.
And I'm like, that's, that'sincorrect.
We've missed something here.
And so every time I realizedthat I like, I have missed that
(15:40):
with a client, I'm like, Oh,okay.
That is the problem.
We need to plan that.
If you need that quality oflife, food every day.
I was like, just having thisconversation with my sister
yesterday.
Um, she was like, Oh, I madefudge.
Our dad always made fudge everyyear.
And so we all now make it he'spassed, but, We were talking
about like, oh gosh, now I havethis 13 by 9 pan of fudge, you
(16:01):
know, and she's like, but I justhad like, you know, one small
square and I'm like, yeah,that's how you do it.
You have the entire thing andyou give yourself permission, to
have one because it's not goinganywhere.
Like there's no shortage.
And I think that's when we giveourselves permission.
it's total permission to havethese foods.
Your brain gets on board andyou're like, Oh, you're not
(16:24):
going to restrict this.
Then we don't have to eat all ofit.
When you do.
Let us have it.
You
Dr. Sarah (16:29):
Also noting that it's very normal to have a transition
period where you do overdo it.
right?
That the permission, like you,you, if you go from restriction
to permission, you don't gostraight into moderation.
Lisa (16:40):
No,
Dr. Sarah (16:41):
You go into, I haven't been eating this food
and therefore I'm going to eatall of it for a little while.
Um, and that's, you know, that'sa normal part of this transition
is, It is having, you know,having some time where I ate all
of the fudge, whoops, but I'llmake some more tomorrow.
Like it, it is also kind ofnormal to have that transition
(17:03):
period and I would definitelyrecommend during that transition
period focusing on other thingsthat are going to, um, regulate
appetite and cravings.
So like getting more sleep,getting some low strain activity
like going out for a walk,making sure to eat three meals
per day, um, and making surethat those meals are balanced,
right?
So they've got Protein andfiber, carbs and fat, right?
(17:27):
Um, ideally nutrient densefoods.
But make, like, making sure tohave breakfast.
Making sure to eat enough forlunch, right?
I think, um, one of the thingsthat can really drive, uh,
feeling like we don't havecontrol when we are eating in
the evening is being, like, overhungry by the time dinner comes
(17:47):
around because we didn't fuelourselves well enough earlier in
the day.
So focusing on those otherthings along with permission can
help to, like, rain it in alittle bit while we're adjusting
to that different mindset.
I definitely, when first, Ifirst adopted permission, I
consumed more calories than mybody required.
Um, but that was part of thejourney and that's okay, right?
(18:10):
That's part of, it's part ofespecially, um, so you and I are
about the same age.
So, um, I had engaged inrestrictive diets from the time
I was like 12, I think, was whenI first became obese.
so, you know, when I startedreally trying to shift my
mindset around this at 45,right, three years ago.
(18:33):
Um, yeah, I had, I had beenengaged in restrictive mindsets
for like three and a halfdecades, right?
So, like, it's a lot ofprogramming.
To undo and it's, it's also, um,highly recommend therapy, right?
Uh, therapy is a, it's a great,it's a great thing to do in this
transition, just because I thinkwe don't necessarily realize how
(18:55):
much emotional processing weavoid.
in favor of food as comfort.
And, and not, not that, not, notthat everyone, that's not
everyone, but certainly that wasthe case for me.
Lisa (19:10):
And I actually just did an episode on that on the three
patterns of why we emotionallyeat for comfort, for
compensation for celebration.
So yeah, it's definitely becausefood works.
Food works on a neurotransmitterlevel to make us feel better.
Um, okay, before we get off toomuch, I want to go back to when
you were talking about the yo yodieting and kind of messing up
(19:33):
our metabolic rate, messing upour kind of body composition.
You and I have both done this inthe past up and down.
And for me with, um, fourpregnancies and the pregnancy
and the nursing.
And I, I mean, I feel like Ikind of created a wreck and I
just, I feel more metabolicallyhealthy at this point in my
(19:54):
life.
I've been strength training nowfor, I think, I can't remember.
I think six or seven yearsstraight.
Um, which has made a bigdifference.
I, I have, although I don'tcount protein macros anymore,
like I did when I was macrocounting, I have started to
understand better the importanceof a higher protein diet, not
(20:15):
only to help with cravings, butjust to maintain that muscle
mass.
And so I eat higher protein.
not to count, but because I knowthat's what's good for me.
Um, so, you know, you can dothese things that you did in
past diets, but from a betterperspective.
mindset.
So my question is with all ofthat going on, and for those
listeners that have been in thatyo yo space, how long does it
(20:36):
take to regain metabolic health?
Like how long until we cancorrect, right?
Because if we've done thatroller coaster and you're like,
now it's worse.
If I'm a listener out therestill in the midst of that, if
I'm me, you know, eight yearsago, I'm still in the midst of
my, my fad dieting, my, yo yo.
I'm feeling defeated.
(20:56):
Is it possible?
And how long will that take?
Dr. Sarah (20:59):
Yeah, I don't know the answer to that question.
Um, my, my guess based on whatI, do know is that it's
individual, right?
So it's, it's it, right?
Are we pre diabetic, Right.
Right.
What, like, there's going to be,and, and how well
Lisa (21:18):
how bad did it get?
Dr. Sarah (21:20):
Yeah.
So like, where, what am Istarting from?
What other factors do I havegoing into this?
Right.
So like, do I have a geneticpredisposition to diabetes?
Right.
It's like, so, uh, what otherthings do I have going on that
are part of this equation?
And, you know, the thing withmetabolic health is diets only
one piece, right?
So, um, Our activity is a hugepiece, right?
(21:44):
So not just, um, not just mybody composition, how much
muscle I have, but how much am Imoving my body on a day to day
basis?
Um, how much sleep I'm gettingas a huge piece and how much
stress time under is a hugepiece.
So like also how well am I.
You know, figuring out the more,like, holistic, uh, approach to
(22:04):
metabolic health, I think, wouldalso change the time frame.
So what I can kind of share frommy perspective, um, so a big
part of my journey, so when I,abruptly went into menopause at
the beginning of the pandemicwhen also my gym closed and, uh,
everything shut down and I justwent from not being menopausal.
(22:26):
I had a perimenopause thatlasted zero, zero days.
Um, and I, yeah, it was not, itwas not fun.
I was also 15 years younger thanmy mom, which is, uh, just a
cruel, cruel joke, uh, that Idon't think is funny universe,
just saying that.
Um, But, uh, but I, um, Istarted to gain weight in a, in
(22:47):
a way that was not, proportionalto what I was doing, right?
Um, and it felt like I had, Ihad maintained my weight loss at
that point for, gosh, uh, Nine,eight or nine years, and then it
just felt like all of my toolsdidn't work.
Um, you know, I can look back atwhat I was eating, and, and I
know that I was eating more.
(23:09):
I know that I was doing morefood seeking behavior, so I was
doing more, like, Hmm, what's inthe pantry right now?
Let me just grab a handful ofthis, right?
Like, I, I, I can see that, butit didn't, It didn't, at the
time, it didn't feel like a bigdifference.
you know, I wasn't, doingCrossFit anymore because my gym
had closed, but I was stillwalking a lot.
(23:30):
I had a home gym.
I was still trying to work out.
It didn't feel like a really bigdifference.
Um, and then I hit a, a momentwhere I just really had to
embrace healthy habits for thehealthy habits.
And really, I just had to stopweighing myself and I just had
to like, you know, Let, let, letmyself focus on eating more
(23:53):
vegetables, eating more seafood,eating more legumes, um, you
know, uh, hiking in the morningwith my dog.
When I got back to the gym,right.
Doing my power lifting.
And I really had to like notfocus on, my weight.
And, uh, it wasn't until acouple of years ago that I was
like, okay, I'm at a pointwhere.
(24:15):
I've embraced a lot of bodypositivity concepts, but my
knees hurt all the time.
and I had actually like fallen,I tripped and fell.
I mean, just like on my ownfeet.
I didn't trip over anything.
Uh, it was in front of a roomfull of strangers, which was not
my favorite experience.
Um, uh, I really bit it in frontof a room full of strangers, but
(24:37):
I landed really hard on myknees.
Not hard enough to breakanything, but like, They were
already complaining all thetime.
I was getting more fibromyalgiasymptoms.
And then, there's like, it wassuch deep internal bruising, and
it just took months.
Months for my knees to do betterand then I pulled a muscle in my
back back squatting Right justit just kind of felt like out of
(25:00):
out of nowhere and I just I hitthis moment where I was like, I
really need to be okay with howmy body looks now and figure
This out.
It just so happened that thiswas all around the same time
that I was building Nutrivor andreally looking at The you know
(25:21):
serving guidelines for otherfoods and that was my path,
right?
So that was my starting estrogenI think is a big factor here as
replacement therapy inmenopause.
I am a big fan huge huge fan
Lisa (25:35):
Same, same,
Dr. Sarah (25:36):
So all the fan but yeah, it it it was Then it had
to become something that I wasmore intentional about, but
also, you know, as you said,intentional to include my
quality of life foods.
So, I managed to lose 100pounds, again, hopefully for the
third and final time, eatingdessert almost every day.
(25:57):
Right?
Like, that, that became a reallyimportant piece of it, and
therapy, um, and addressing,some disordered, some disordered
eating patterns, uh, that weredefinitely, causing me to
overeat.
So, you know, For me, it was nota straight line journey, right?
(26:18):
It was first having to reallyembrace, functionality, over,
appearances, and then realizingthat the functionality was being
lost as well, and then having toreally focus on that, and then
finding ways to add more.
(26:38):
Are vegetables, right?
So I have, I'm a person withlike a big, big appetite.
Uh, my default is a lot morecalories than my body needs if
I'm just eating intuitively.
so I need to, I need to dostrategies like high volume
eating.
So eating a lot of vegetablesand salads and fruit, right?
Like just like those, thosefoods that, that fill you up
(27:00):
because they've got so muchwater and fiber and lots of
vitamins and minerals andphytonutrients.
So like really nutrient densefoods.
And I really had to work ongiving up snacking.
That was a really, uh, a reallytough one for me, but that's
where all of the, the excesscalories were coming.
And I don't need snacks forother reasons, right?
Like some people do, right?
If you've got reactivehypoglycemia or gastritis,
(27:21):
right?
There's lots of healthconditions where, where snacking
is, is an important, approachfor just getting in the, the
food.
it wasn't for me.
So from a, you know, metabolichealth perspective and a
timeframe perspective, I wouldsay it took a year.
It took a year, like not, itwasn't all of the, the weight
(27:43):
that I lost, right.
I lost, I lost weight over maybea year and a half.
Um, but it took about a year toget from feeling very,
unregulated to feeling fullyregulated, right?
And to see my metabolic healthmarkers this time were never
(28:03):
really out of whack because Iwas, I started really active.
I started eating a healthy diet.
It just needed those littletweaks.
but it was, yeah, I would sayabout a year in before I hit
that like, okay, this is, theneeds feel good.
The sleep is good, the stress isreally low, the blood work looks
great.
(28:24):
and yeah, so it's, I it'sgradual improvement through the
whole time, right?
It's not like a line where yougo here, I cross the line and
now I'm good, right?
Lisa (28:32):
healthy.
right?
It's just that it is possiblethough.
Like we've done this damage overthe yo yo dieting, but I just
want people to realize like allis not lost.
Dr. Sarah (28:44):
Well, absolutely.
I mean, I just got my first pullup.
four months ago.
I've never been able to do apull up ever before in my life.
And, you know, I've been able tobuild enough muscle as a
menopausal woman.
thank you estrogen.
I, like, really, thank youestrogen.
This has been a goal of mineevery year since I started
(29:06):
powerlifting in 2013
Lisa (29:10):
Oh,
Dr. Sarah (29:10):
Um, and I, I, I know I finally got a pull up, and so,
yes, you can, you can, what I'mtrying to say is you can adopt a
permissive approach.
You can stop dieting and you canstill reach both your short-term
health goals and support yourlong-term health.
You can do all of that, and infact.
(29:32):
finding that, that happy mediumwhere you're focusing on the
foods to add, where you'refocusing on the nutrients,
you're focusing on mealsprepared in ways that are tasty
so you feel satisfied from yourmeals, so that you can eat those
treats in moderation.
Finding that is how you find thesustainability, right?
(29:53):
And that's how you can achievethose short term health goals
now.
And really.
Like feel.
Like, it's not, a thing that youhave to stop, right?
It's not a thing, you know, I, Ilost those 15 pounds to go to my
sister's wedding and now I cando whatever, right?
Like, it becomes just the waythat we eat and that's where the
weight loss maintenance comesfrom.
Lisa (30:15):
totally.
I'm always like, you have tolose weight in a way that feels
like you could eat forever.
That's, that's the differencebetween our approach here.
And when you're saying like,we're not dieting, diets are
short term.
Diets are things that we do fora certain amount of time.
And I think that's one of themost damaging things about,
about diets is having a, I mean,how many times did I do a six
(30:37):
week slim down an eight weekbootcamp?
Uh, a 12 week, you know, Like itjust sends the message that you
just can, you just have to dothis for this short amount of
time.
And then you can go back toquote unquote, normal.
And that's not the way that'snot the way we get off the yo
yo.
It's not the way we maintainlong term health.
We want to add in things andwhat I call crowd out.
(30:58):
So we're like, what do I want tocrowd out of my diet?
And so we're like, I'm going tochoose more of these things.
Of beans or, you know, whateverthe, the nutrient dense foods
that you want to eat, when youput that in, you're naturally
crowding out something else.
And so really paying attentionto things that we want to, to
(31:19):
crowd out and to just kind ofsay, I'm just going to eat that
thing less often.
Another way that we can reallyget out of like the diet
mentality.
is to stop the moral judgmentsof food.
And I love how you say likequality of life foods, but
anytime that we label a foodgood or bad, we inevitably label
ourselves that same thing foreating it.
(31:41):
And how many times growing up,did you hear your mom or your
sister or your aunt say, Oh,I've been so good today.
I had a salad for lunch.
So I'm going to have this cookieor gosh, I've been so bad.
I had to grab fast food.
So I don't think I should eatdinner.
Like, we are good or bad forwhat we ate, and that is
(32:03):
unequivocally false.
That's false.
And, I, I know that you,
Dr. Sarah (32:09):
yeah, no, I was gonna say I 100 percent agree.
It also propels healthism,right?
So we, we take on those moraljudgments of ourselves, but we
also make assumptions aboutother people, based on what we
assume bad foods they must beeating to look a certain way.
Right.
knowing absolutely nothing abouttheir situation.
(32:29):
And, we assume if people look acertain way, they're eating the
good foods and they, they look acertain way.
They're eating the bad foods.
And we, we make thismoralization of, well, they're
Eating bad foods so they deservewhat's happening to them, right?
Like that, that healthist, uh,really destructive, uh, sort of,
assumption about other people isdriven by the same moralization
(32:53):
of foods.
Lisa (32:54):
Yeah, and we can think that about ourselves, too.
Well, I deserve to be in thisunhealthy body because I've been
eating junk food.
And That's just not, not true.
Dr. Sarah (33:04):
That's not it.
that's not it at all.
Lisa (33:06):
I, I think, too, it's kind of dangerous to even get into
the food is medicine kind ofapproach because, again, it
feels like, you know, Imentioned my dad earlier.
My dad.
was diagnosed with prostatecancer at 55 and he lived an
extremely healthy lifestyle.
We grew up on land.
He had a huge garden.
(33:27):
He had an orchard.
I mean, just the amount ofvariety just on his land.
I mean, there, he grew at least25 different things just on his
home garden.
Plus grew his own beef.
Like we ate grass fed beefbefore grass fed beef was a
thing, you know, and he workedan active job.
He, Rarely was in his office.
Usually he was out and about allthe things outside Northern
(33:49):
California.
I've got plenty of sun and.
I'm like, if food is medicine,then it didn't work for him.
And I can't think that waybecause then it does get into
this moral judgment where you'relike, well, what did you do
wrong?
Nothing.
He did nothing wrong.
He was just living his life in ahuman body and human bodies
sometimes do that.
Sometimes it's part of being ahuman
Dr. Sarah (34:10):
takes one cell.
Just takes one cell.
to decide it's going to divideuncontrollably.
so, I think it's really helpful.
You know, one of the things thatI Um, I know we already talked
about last week is, that food isnot a guarantee of great health
forever.
It helps to put statistics tothat.
So diet plus lifestyle plushealth related behaviors account
(34:34):
for 40 to 50 percent of healthoutcomes.
So food plus lifestyle.
Sleep and stress management andactivity plus whether or not I
smoke or drink, right?
All of that is 40 to 50 percentof health outcomes.
10 to 20 percent comes fromaccess and quality of medical
care.
30 percent comes from geneticsand epigenetics and 20 percent
(34:55):
is social determinants ofhealth.
And there's ways that socialdeterminants of health affect
things like access to You know,whole foods, right?
So that can still also feed intothe other 40 to 50 percent
statistics.
And so, you know, it's, I don'tsay that to make it everyone
throw up their hands and go,well, why bother?
(35:16):
40 to 50 percent is huge.
That's, that's a, that's a hugedifference.
But I think that one of themost.
You know, how, like, how do yourespect the power of food and
how, how much it can change ourhealth fates while not giving it
all the power?
Right?
And, and not engaging with that,that I think you're right,
(35:39):
right?
The, the problem with food asmedicine, as a philosophy is it
makes us feel like whensomething does go wrong with our
health, that it's our fault,right?
That we didn't do somethingcorrectly.
The other thing that happens ispeople then don't want to use
medicine as medicine becausethey want to heal themselves
with food.
But you know what?
Medicine's pretty great.
(36:00):
There's some awesome, awesomethings that medicine can do,
right?
That's that 10 to 20 percent ofhealth outcomes, medical care,
right?
We want to use all of the toolsat our disposal to achieve our
best health.
And that, that means bothsetting realistic expectations,
um, taking, you know, feelingempowered by what we can change
(36:20):
and also, accepting the, thelimits of, of what's
controllable in a very chaoticuniverse.
Lisa (36:27):
So, Nutrivore is something that we add to our diet
patterns.
It's something that we want tokind of focus on.
what new species can we add toour diet?
how can we fill nutrient gaps?
Um, yeah.
But if you're someone who needs,like, more of, like, a stricter
formula, you're coming off ofthat, diet rollercoaster.
(36:48):
I, I have a lot of clients thatare like, I just don't know what
I'm allowed to eat anymore.
it feels confusing.
And a lot of times I'm like,hey, like, what diet did you
feel amazing on?
And they'll give me the name,you know?
And like, for me, it was likeSouth Beach diet.
Why?
Because I was eating tons offruits and vegetables.
(37:09):
That's why.
what made you feel great oncounting macros?
I was eating higher protein,like grab those things that you
liked, and then you can kind oflayer the Nutrivor on, on top
but people are still like, Ijust need a formula.
because I did really well whenWhatever, fill in the blank name
of diet told me, these are thefoods you can eat.
(37:29):
And these are the meals I wantyou to prepare.
And I don't do that.
And you don't do that.
We don't provide meal plans.
We don't provide for breakfast,eat this for lunch, or there's
like, here's some general ideas.
Like, what do you do with peoplethat are like, I need more
direction.
I need more formulaic things.
Dr. Sarah (37:46):
I'm, I'm happy to provide a formula.
so I, you know, I think for alot of people focusing on just
the eating patterns, right?
Like, half of my plate coveredin fruits and vegetables, right?
Making sure that every meal hasprotein, fiber, carbs, and fat,
right?
getting used to eating threemeals per day, working on
dietary diversity, working oneating more whole foods,
(38:06):
intentionally incorporatingquality of life foods as a tool
for consistency.
I think for lots of people, it'sactually.
Really important to start there,but for the people who need a
formula.
I have a meal based formula thatI call the Nutri4 Meal Map.
It is absolutely a rip off of myplate, but it does have some
important differences.
Um, so how I define starchyfoods and protein foods I think
(38:27):
is, is the big difference.
Um, there's some differences inrelative proportions as well.
that is available in my book oras a free download when you sign
up for my weekly newsletter.
and then the other one issomething called the Nutri4
Weekly Serving Matrix, which isvery specific.
Targets serving targets per dayor per week.
It incorporates the meal mapinto it.
So it assumes three meals a day,according to the meal map, and
(38:50):
then it gives you targets forvery specific food families that
are really nutritionallyimportant.
When you follow the Nutra forWeekly Serving matrix that will
typically get you, your fullmeeting your nutritional needs.
So all of your vitamins,minerals, protein, fiber, those
really important heart healthyfats at it.
Depending on exactly what yourenergy requirements are, like 50
(39:12):
to 75 percent of your caloricintake, so it builds in as much
possible room for those qualityof life foods as possible.
Um, and that is the goal.
And so that is very formulaic,but without measuring right
without logging things in anapp.
without having to weigh or, or,or measure anything.
So it uses all eyeballmeasurements.
So we call a serving ofvegetables about the size of a
(39:34):
fist.
We call a serving of a, of ameat or fish about the palm of
her hand.
Right?
So it's all using those sort oflike visual approximations for
servings because that'ssufficient, right?
That is absolutely sufficientfor most people.
And certainly.
A great place to start learninghow to eat intuitively, right?
Kind of just be able to look athow much vegetables on your
(39:54):
plate and know if that's twoservings or three servings,
right?
so that is also available in mybook or as a digital product on,
on my website.
so, you know, I've, I've gotthose formulas for the people
who really, who really need aformula.
Uh, and I've got the like.
flexible guidelines that arevery highly adaptable to the
(40:15):
person, to really just focus onthe overall eating patterns to
kind of like break free fromdiet culture.
I mean, I would say my book isthe best resource for that
because all of that is in there.
Lisa (40:27):
And it's just so inspirational too.
I mean, I just love to listen tothings that are like, Hey, if
you do this, like you reduceyour all cause mortality.
Like I just love to do thingslike that because that's, that's
what I'm all about is, is thatlongevity.
piece as well, and, and the mainreason why I do what I do and
the way I eat, so.
Oh my goodness, Dr.
(40:48):
Sarah, this has been so, so funto talk to you.
So good.
is there, anything else youwanted, just remind people of
where to find you or informationthat you offer online?
Dr. Sarah (40:59):
Yes, my home base is Nutrivore.com, um, so if you
really want, like, nitty gritty,you want to learn about all the
different ways that nutrientsinteract with our health and
disease risk, you want to learnabout all the nutrients that
different foods contain, youwant to learn about the eating
patterns that will help you getthe full range of nutrients that
you need, that is where, like,the more academic, like, super
detailed articles live.
(41:20):
My book, Nutrivore, The RadicalNew Science for Getting the
Nutrients You Need from the youeat is definitely the more.
Like approachable for theaverage person resource, a
little bit less deep diveacademic y, and has also like
all of the like psychology,there's a appendix in the back
with 17 tips for healthy andsustainable weight loss, which I
(41:41):
feel like we probably coveredhalf of, uh, on this podcast
episode.
and I mean, I would say my bookis, um, If I had to say like,
what is like the main goal?
It's like making nutritionpersonal, right?
It's like understanding howspecific nutrients relate to
your specific health concerns,right?
That is sort of the goal of thebook by way of motivating
(42:02):
nutrient dense eating outsideof, of diet mentality.
Um, and then I'm at Dr.
Sarah Ballantyne on TikTok,YouTube, Facebook.
Instagram threads, um,technically Pinterest, although
I haven't been active therelately, and I just, uh, created
a blue sky account.
So, at least for right now, I'mplaying around and seeing if I'm
(42:24):
there too.
Um, so, yeah, and that's, socialmedia is where I share much
more.
Pardon the pun.
Bite sized information aboutnutrition.
And also my newsletter, myweekly newsletter is much more
bite sized.
So it's much more like smalllittle like fun facts and
tidbits.
because I am a fun fact drivenperson.
(42:44):
That is what my brain loves islike those little nuggets of
knowledge that if only trivialpursuit.
had, uh, categories fornutrition.
I would be so good at that game.
sadly, I don't remember YogiBear quotes.
so unfortunately my husbandalways wins, but that's okay.
That's okay.
I beat him at Scrabble, so it'sfine.
Lisa (43:03):
Alright, well, thanks again.
It's been such a pleasure tomeet you.
And we will put all of thoselinks in the show notes.
Thanks!
Dr. Sarah (43:09):
Thank you again.
I'm so glad you tuned in forpart two with Dr.
Sarah Ballantine.
If today's insights resonatedwith you and you're ready to
make lasting changes in yourhealth journey.
I love to help first.
Don't forget to check out thatjumpstart program.
I mentioned at the beginning ofthis episode to get you going
this year.
You can also book a freeconsultation session to see if
my 12 week.
(43:29):
One-on-one coaching program is abetter fit.
You can schedule that at thelink in the show notes.
Remember, it's not just aboutthe food.
It's about empowering yourselfwith choices that truly serve
you have a great week and asalways, thanks for listening and
sharing the eat well think.
Well live well podcast.
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