March 21, 2024 • 23 mins
Tax strategist Vardan Pogosian is a former IRS agent who has taken tax planning to the next level.
Born in Armenia and raised in Mongolia, Vardan had his first experience in the business world running numbers and crunching data for his uncle at their fast-food restaurant in Russia. After moving to the U.S., Vardan was accepted into USC, where he thrived in accounting. His lifelong dream of becoming an IRS agent became true a few years later. Now, he runs Pogosian Tax Planning where he works with business owners and small family offices to help create successful tax-reduction strategies. When Vardan is not helping business owners grow their wealth, he loves spending his free time with his feet in the sand and traveling the world.
CLICK HERE for more information about Vardan Pogosian.
CLICK HERE for more information about Pogosian Tax Planning Inc.
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:00):
From Los Angeles, this is the Echelon radio
network
Jerri Hemsworth (00:11):
This is Jerri Hemsworth and welcome to the
Echelon Radio Podcast. And todayI'm talking with Vardan
Pogosian. How are you?
Vardan Pogosian (00:21):
Doing good, Jerri, thanks for having me.
Jerri Hemsworth (00:23):
Oh, I'm so glad you're here because you have a
very unique profession. And I'mtotally intrigued by what you
do. Tell me what you do.
Vardan Pogosian (00:34):
I'm a tax strategist. I'm a CPA and former
IRS agent. I help businessowners legally reduce tax,
improve their cash flow and helpthem build wealth.
Jerri Hemsworth (00:45):
So the former tax agent, how long were you a
tax agent?
Vardan Pogosian (00:49):
I was at IRS for about nine years.
Jerri Hemsworth (00:52):
And did you get there out of school? Or how did
you how did you get a job andyour career there? How did that
Vardan Pogosian (01:01):
I went to USC and graduated and I did some
happen?
audits in private industrybefore joining IRS for about
couple years, two and a halfyears at a short stance with the
Department of Defense auditagency as well. But my goal was
all along to work at IRS. So Iapplied, this a long process,
(01:21):
took about a year and a half.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:24):
Really?
Vardan Pogosian (01:26):
Yeah, so I was patient one morning, 6am HR
person from New York called meand offered me a job.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:33):
Oh, did you do a happy dance after that?
Vardan Pogosian (01:36):
No, I went back to sleep probably. I was I was
pretty happy.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:41):
Yeah, that's all that sounds arduous. that
just can't be fun. At what pointdid you know, you know what,
it's time for me to leave theIRS.
Vardan Pogosian (01:51):
Yeah, it was end of 2013/14. Government
shutdowns. You know, IRS was ina debacle, with Lois Lerner
case. If you recall, Obamaadministration used IRS to
target you know, conservativenonprofits during elections,
that whole mess, basically, longstory short, Congress decided to
(02:14):
punish IRS and, and cut thebudget. So it was pretty rough
times. So and there was nopromotion opportunities. And I
felt like, you know, it was timeto move on. I was in Arizona
sitting in my hotel room, and wewere supposed to visit Grand
Canyon. And Grand Canyon is afederal park and it was shut
(02:38):
down due to government. Youknow, Congress shut down. And
I'm like...
Jerri Hemsworth (02:43):
My work, my play, everything shut down. What
do I do?
Vardan Pogosian (02:46):
Work was shut down, and park was shut down.
I'm like, It's time to talk tomy wife. I said, it's time to
move on, Go out go out on ourown.
Jerri Hemsworth (02:54):
Is that when you started Pogosian planning?
Vardan Pogosian (02:57):
No, I started a traditional CPA firm in 2014.
Just you know, doing taxcompliance, tax preparation,
bookkeeping, payroll, you know,your traditional CPA services.
But also tax planning. So theemphasis was on tax planning all
along. Around 2020, I realized,you know, I need to do this full
(03:20):
time, I need to do tax planningfull time, I need to help my
business owners legally reducetax through this advanced tax
strategies, but it's timeconsuming. It takes vetting it
takes Tax Court research, tokeep up with the tax planning
strategies to keep up with, youknow, what's going on in the tax
(03:41):
planning world.
Jerri Hemsworth (03:42):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (03:42):
So I decided to sell my practice in 2020.
Jerri Hemsworth (03:46):
Okay
Vardan Pogosian (03:47):
And do this full time. So now I have a tax
planning practice where I dothis full time.
Jerri Hemsworth (03:54):
And was that that was obviously where your
joy was, was helping yourclients?
Vardan Pogosian (04:00):
Yes,
Jerri Hemsworth (04:00):
With this? And what kind of process vetting
your clients do you have a set,I don't know process and what is
the type of clients that youtake on?
Vardan Pogosian (04:16):
Sure. So we want to see at least million
dollars in net profits. Why dothey come up with that amount?
It's not like I want to workwith millionaires only. It's
just that's a kind of athreshold where we can bring in
good ROI to our clients. Toreally understand the process.
(04:39):
We have to look from thestandpoint of ROI. So tax
planning is like an investmentproject. You put in money into
the tax planning project, andyou get an ROI back. So through
tax savings, so just likeinvestments you invest in
stocks, mutual bonds, you get anROI back. Tax Planning is very
(05:04):
similar. You invest into a taxplan and you get an ROI in form
of tax saving.
Jerri Hemsworth (05:11):
Sure, that makes sense.
Vardan Pogosian (05:11):
And so, yeah, and to achieve a good ROI, we
generally want to see at leastmillion dollars in net profits.
(05:33):
We're kind of industry agnostic,you know, we don't have an, you
Jerri Hemsworth (05:43):
That's fantastic. And you also deal
with family offices, right? And,that space?
Vardan Pogosian (05:51):
Yeah, we actually have a family office
structure in our practice. Sobesides tax planning, we also
help businesses synergize alltheir other aspects of their
wealth creation, their estateplanning, risk management, you
know, your insurance, andinvestments, Wealth Management,
(06:13):
your retirement investments,your you know, outside of
retirement investments, andwhat, what's unique about us is,
know, particular industry, it'smore profit driven. If you have,
we have a tax first approach.
if you have that income leveland the tax liability in
Jerri Hemsworth (06:24):
Okay.
Vardan Pogosian (06:25):
So we want to address taxes first. So, for
California, you're gonna haveabout 500,000 of taxes on
million dollars. Right. So, wecan help. That's where we come
example, if you have a goodfinancial adviser, and you know,
he has, you know, X amount ofreturns 12% 15%. You know,
in, and, you know, we can dosome damage.
generally you're happy or, youknow, your portfolio is doing
good. But our what we ask is,let, let us look at your tax
(06:48):
situation first. Did youoptimize your taxes? Did you
have a tax plan in place priorto investing? If you just pay
51% tax, and invest it? Andyeah, you're, you have, you
know, great returns on yourinvestment. Or you might be in
real estate. You just pay 51%tax. And that money is never
(07:14):
coming back. It went to UncleSam. It's never coming back.
Jerri Hemsworth (07:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's gone. Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (07:20):
Can we, the question is, can we legally
reduce that amount? Emphasis onlegally, we don't do anything
illegal here? So legally, can wereduce that tax first, then
invest?
Jerri Hemsworth (07:34):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Vardan Pogosian (07:36):
So the second layer is the investments. Once
you saved on taxes, then thereis a tax savvy way to invest
through because tax planningcreates tax advantageous
structures. That's what we do.
And within those structures, youinvest. And when clients see
that the wealth, exponentialwealth, wealth creation is
(08:00):
unparallel. When you addresstaxes first and you invest
within those structures, thereturn on investment is
exponentially higher.
Jerri Hemsworth (08:15):
And I would imagine having that family
office structure and you'reworking with the other
professionals that have the samegoal. That's got to be huge
benefit for the clients.
Massive.
Vardan Pogosian (08:27):
Exactly. And I am at the helm of the family
office as a tax strategist.
Okay. So your family officenormally when you people have
family offices in thosestructures, it's oftentimes
financial advisors at the helmcalling the shots, right, which
is fine. But there is a level upwhere you can have a tax first
(08:52):
approach to your family office.
And Jerri, we find that there isan underserved market. You know,
normally family offices, youwould have to have, you know, 50
million and up.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:08):
Yeah, it's up there.
Vardan Pogosian (09:08):
Yeah, 100 million, you know, they have
500,000 retainer I know, to justeven be in the family office.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:15):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (09:16):
So what what we're, what our niche is that we
go after the underserved market,below 50 million in, in, in, you
know, assets under management.
And we find that they're just atthe mercy of their financial
advisor. Again, nothing againstfinancial advisors. We work with
(09:39):
financial advisors, and weactually have financial advisors
bring into our family structuretheir clients, and they do the
wealth management piece withinour tax planning structures.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (09:54):
So we encourage financial advisors to contact us
to see if we can possibly helptheir clients manage. So in our,
in our family office structure,Jerri, if you're an estate
planning attorney, for example,you can bring in your client and
you as estate planning attorneywill plug in yourself and your
(10:17):
client into that family officestructure, and you will be doing
that piece as estate planningattorney.
Jerri Hemsworth (10:23):
Yeah, they stay, you stay.
Vardan Pogosian (10:26):
Yeah, you stay.
So now you have, you and yourclient have access to the tax
planning strategies that youknow risk management all within
the ecosystem of taxes first.
Jerri Hemsworth (10:41):
Gotcha.
Vardan Pogosian (10:41):
So, and if you're a CPA, you bring in your
client, we don't do CPA work, soyou're gonna continue doing your
CPA work. And now your client isplugged in into this
infrastructure of taxes first,tax planning, taxes first
investment, taxes firstretirement planning, taxes first
(11:02):
insurance.
Jerri Hemsworth (11:03):
Unbelievable.
Is there a minimum for that? Iknow, you know, for the tax
planning, you said a million
Vardan Pogosian (11:09):
In profits
Jerri Hemsworth (11:10):
In profits.
What about the family office?
Vardan Pogosian (11:13):
Family office we can bring in the client,
yeah, we want to see generally 3to 5 million in investable
assets. The threshold is notvery high. I mean, at higher
thresholds, we can offer freetax planning meaning if if you
know someone comes in and andbrings into the infrastructure,
(11:34):
you know, they don't have afinancial advisor they're gonna
utilize our our back office teamfor a wealth management and you
know, asset management. The taxplanning can be part of the deal
Jerri Hemsworth (11:49):
I think this is brilliant, because it, you know,
here.
the family office, thetraditional one that has, you
know, 50 million on up. There'sfar I, I believe there's far
more like you said, theunderserved market that have
between the 2 or 3 or 4 millionto the 50 million, there's far
more need, I can imagine in thatin that space. So I think this
(12:15):
is actually a very brilliantidea.
Vardan Pogosian (12:17):
And they separately get advice from their
financial advisor on investment.
Again, it could be great advice.
Jerri Hemsworth (12:24):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (12:24):
They get insurance products separately.
They don't talk to each other.
No, no, they go to a stateplanning attorney, draw, draw,
they draw up their will, theirtrust. That's separate. No one
talks to each other and theirCPAs filing the return
separately.
Jerri Hemsworth (12:40):
Exactly.
Vardan Pogosian (12:41):
So those pieces don't work together. They're
just on their own. Each onemaybe has the best interest of
the client, but they're workingin a tunnel.
Jerri Hemsworth (12:52):
Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (12:53):
On their own.
Jerri Hemsworth (12:53):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (12:54):
And, but what we're saying is, why won't we
combine this in under a one stopshop, and even possibly the same
advisors can come in and workunder the umbrella of a tax
strategist? A, you know, saysthis IUL policy makes sense from
(13:15):
the tax standpoint, for example.
Can we have a tax advantageousstructure to put this insurance
product for example? Or youknow, you're in equities. How
can we minimize your tax firstand invest within a different
structure? The same equitiesyou're investing now.
Jerri Hemsworth (13:32):
Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (13:33):
It doesn't really matter.
Jerri Hemsworth (13:35):
Not after that 51%,
Vardan Pogosian (13:36):
Yeah, like yeah, if you're, you know, we,
we just might move the sameproduct in a different
Jerri Hemsworth (13:43):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (13:44):
So we're not rocking anybody's boat.
Jerri Hemsworth (13:46):
Right.
Vardan Pogosian (13:46):
We're just, you know, saying, hey, let's address
taxes.
Jerri Hemsworth (13:50):
Smart and sensible with the clients. But
the client's goals and theclient's needs first. It's just,
great.
Vardan Pogosian (13:58):
And if someone wants to use our wealth
structure.
management services, investmentadvice, we you know, we've
partnered up with a with a greatcompany. They exclusively work
with people like me, financialplanners, or tax planners or, or
you know, CPAs actually notfinancial planners, they'll
(14:20):
exclusively work with CPAs andtax planners, and they
understand taxes. And they worksynergetically in this family
office environment, and theyunderstand taxes and I'm very
happy to work with them.
Jerri Hemsworth (14:34):
I think that it's again, I think it's
brilliant, what you're doing,absolutely brilliant. Especially
coming from a marketingstandpoint. There's, it feels a
lot more accessible andaffordable for somebody that has
a smaller estate or a smallerbusiness that that is doing
(14:55):
fine. But you know, I need Ifeel like I need more than being
having to talk to my CPA all bythemselves and, and my estate
planning attorney all bythemselves and my insurance
personnel, and to have a onestop shop, as you say, planner
(15:17):
that is helping and alleviatingthat stress of oh gosh, is
everybody talking? Am I doingthis right over here? But oh, it
I just think it's brilliant. Ithink it's absolutely brilliant.
So changing, changing gears alittle bit. What do you do when
(15:39):
you're not working?
Vardan Pogosian (15:40):
I like to travel with my family. Sometimes
friends. I have two boys, 12 And5.
Jerri Hemsworth (15:47):
Yes.
Vardan Pogosian (15:48):
They keep me busy. Happily married. Beautiful
wife who is in business with me.
She is my business partner.
Jerri Hemsworth (15:57):
Well, now there's there's a topic because
I work with my spouse. And, andI think you and I talked a
little bit about this before.
Are you guys really good atstaying in your own lanes? In
running the business?
Vardan Pogosian (16:12):
Yes. We started the CPA firm together back in
2014.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:16):
Okay.
Vardan Pogosian (16:17):
And when our second one was born, yeah, she
just, you know, stayed home. Andnow when I opened my consulting
practice, she's back with me.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:25):
So you just speak the same language?
Vardan Pogosian (16:27):
Yeah. Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:29):
Tax and numbers.
Vardan Pogosian (16:30):
Tax some numbers, she's more into
business development sides,admin, like kind of
administrative office stuffbusiness development. She, you
know, and I stay on my lane withmy tax planning.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:43):
Yeah, I know.
It's, it is really helpful whenyou both have your own lanes and
and focus. But you alsomentioned traveling with your
family. Where are your favoritespots to travel to?
Vardan Pogosian (16:57):
Well, Maui is my favorite spot.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:59):
Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (17:00):
Unfortunately, you know, the fire happened and
hopefully, you know, they'llrecover fast. Mexico, we like to
go to Mexico. We went to Europethis year.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:12):
And you took the boys?
Vardan Pogosian (17:14):
Yeah. Yeah. We took to our boys to Europe, and
they liked it. Yeah, it wasvery, very fun trip was.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:20):
Have you always traveled with the boys? Or did
you leave them home at a certainpoint?
Vardan Pogosian (17:26):
Yeah, I mean, lately, my wife and I will
travel alone. You know, with ourfirst one. I couldn't convince
her. She felt guilty. You know,leaving our first one, you know,
kind of,
Jerri Hemsworth (17:39):
Yeah,we did that. We took our kid with us
everywhere. We went.
Vardan Pogosian (17:42):
Yeah. We had a couple of trips, trips last
couple years. We went to Miami.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:48):
So you like the beach?
Vardan Pogosian (17:49):
Yeah, I'm a beach guy. You know, lay down by
the ocean.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:53):
Are you, are you able to turn off work in
your head when you go onvacation? Are you able to leave
it behind?
Vardan Pogosian (18:00):
Oh, yeah pretty much. Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (18:01):
Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (18:02):
I'm tempted to look at emails, you know, couple
times but no, I try to, I don'ttake a laptop or anything.
Jerri Hemsworth (18:09):
Good. Good.
Good. Good. The kids. Have youfound as as a dad, your
vacations alter to suit yourkids a little bit more?
Vardan Pogosian (18:21):
Oh, yeah, definitely. We've got to keep
them busy at the resorts. Wewant to see water slides. And
you know, before we go, we havecouple of spots will like in
Mexico. Yeah, Mexico and Hawaii.
So good family resorts.
Jerri Hemsworth (18:37):
Yeah Wailea has some really good ones. Have you
been to the Disney one inWailea?
Vardan Pogosian (18:45):
No.
Jerri Hemsworth (18:45):
We went to we took Libby to Hawaii a couple
times when she was very youngunder five. And then they built
the Wailea Disney Resort afterthat, and I thought, oh my gosh,
we've got to go there, but wenever were able to. And now
she's 23 now she can pay her ownway. But I thought, oh, I gotta
(19:10):
meet somebody who's taken theirkids there and see if you know
how they enjoyed it. I've heardit's fantastic.
Vardan Pogosian (19:14):
Yeah, we should check it out.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:15):
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. You said you went to
school at USC. Why did you pickUSC?
Vardan Pogosian (19:25):
Well, at the time, they still are one of the
best accounting schools in thecountry. They were ranked number
three at the time.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:33):
So you always want to be an accountant?
Vardan Pogosian (19:34):
Yeah, pretty much, yeah pretty much. I came
to this country in '96. And youknow, went USC and I had high
school diploma when I came, sowent to USC and yeah, accounting
was definitely my thing. Youknow, I had a little business in
(19:55):
my, with my uncle when I was ateenager.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:58):
What kind of business?
Vardan Pogosian (20:00):
It was like a little fast food restaurant, you
know, helping him out. And I didthe numbers, you know, you know,
he would ask me to calculatemargins and things like that.
Jerri Hemsworth (20:10):
And you're like, oh, this is fun.
Vardan Pogosian (20:13):
Yeah, I figured
Jerri Hemsworth (20:14):
Counting the money and
Vardan Pogosian (20:16):
Yeah,
Jerri Hemsworth (20:16):
the margins and like, watch it go up and down.
Vardan Pogosian (20:20):
And later on as my career develop, I realized I
like strategic stuff withnumbers, not necessarily
calculating numbers, you know,playing with numbers.
Jerri Hemsworth (20:30):
Yeah, sure.
Like, oh, this is I can see if Iput if I push over here, this
goes up. And if I push downover, this goes down. Now I can
understand that.
Vardan Pogosian (20:41):
And I have a little attorney me also like law
and researching and you know,putting law and numbers
together.
Jerri Hemsworth (20:49):
Yeah. You mentioned tax law in in what you
were saying. And I thought, Wow,that must be really great
reading at night. But you likeit? I mean,
Vardan Pogosian (20:57):
Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (20:58):
Fascinating
Vardan Pogosian (20:59):
Because you need to know the tax law to do
tax planning. Really, you know,you need to understand, you
know, okay, if I arrested inlike a certain strategy, why?
Because they're attackingcertain points in the strategy
that were not done properly. Andthen as you design those plans,
you address IRS's concerns,right.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:19):
Yeah. Then in that way, you solve the problem
before there is one. Yeah. Whenyou were at USC, did you take
tax law? Did they teach you alot of tax law there?
Vardan Pogosian (21:30):
Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:31):
And you were probably a straight A student in
that.
Vardan Pogosian (21:33):
Oh, yeah for the most part. Yeah. A couple of
B+s. Yeah, I was. I did well, onaccounting courses. Definitely.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:43):
But that's so great that you were able to
identify that this is what youlove to do. And and work this
way. And then you were sofocused on working for the IRS.
Vardan Pogosian (21:53):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I, I wanted to, you
know, get that hands onexperience, you know, and at
that time, IRS training wasamazing. Those in-person and
veterans of the industry we'reteaching there.
Jerri Hemsworth (22:09):
Gotcha. Gotcha.
So where did you grew up? Wheredid you have this restaurant
with your uncle?
Vardan Pogosian (22:14):
I grew up in Armenia. Actually, when I was
five, my dad was sent toMongolia.
Jerri Hemsworth (22:21):
Oh, really?
Vardan Pogosian (22:22):
Yeah. During Soviet Union, you know, to help
build Mongolia. So it was acommunist country as well. So I
lived for five years in Asia.
You know, my childhood, youknow, I lived until I was 10, in
Mongolia. So I came back toArmenia when I was 10. And when
I was 18, I went to Russia. Andthat's where we had the
(22:48):
restaurant there, restaurantbusiness for for a year and a
half. And then we wanted a greencard, we came to the U.S.
legally. So in '96, we came toUnited States with family and,
Jerri Hemsworth (23:03):
So your familys here.
Vardan Pogosian (23:04):
Yeah. Familys here.
Jerri Hemsworth (23:05):
That's, that's the best. That's the best.
Vardan, thank you so much forbeing with me today. And I
really love chatting with youabout this. I think it's
fantastic. It's great whatyou're doing.
Vardan Pogosian (23:17):
Thank you, Jerri.
Announcer (23:26):
Presented by Echelon business development, more than
just networking. Way more
From Los Angeles, this is the Echelon radio
network
Jerri Hemsworth (00:11):
This is Jerri Hemsworth and welcome to the
Echelon Radio Podcast. And todayI'm talking with Vardan
Pogosian. How are you?
Vardan Pogosian (00:21):
Doing good, Jerri, thanks for having me.
Jerri Hemsworth (00:23):
Oh, I'm so glad you're here because you have a
very unique profession. And I'mtotally intrigued by what you
do. Tell me what you do.
Vardan Pogosian (00:34):
I'm a tax strategist. I'm a CPA and former
IRS agent. I help businessowners legally reduce tax,
improve their cash flow and helpthem build wealth.
Jerri Hemsworth (00:45):
So the former tax agent, how long were you a
tax agent?
Vardan Pogosian (00:49):
I was at IRS for about nine years.
Jerri Hemsworth (00:52):
And did you get there out of school? Or how did
you how did you get a job andyour career there? How did that
Vardan Pogosian (01:01):
I went to USC and graduated and I did some
happen?
audits in private industrybefore joining IRS for about
couple years, two and a halfyears at a short stance with the
Department of Defense auditagency as well. But my goal was
all along to work at IRS. So Iapplied, this a long process,
(01:21):
took about a year and a half.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:24):
Really?
Vardan Pogosian (01:26):
Yeah, so I was patient one morning, 6am HR
person from New York called meand offered me a job.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:33):
Oh, did you do a happy dance after that?
Vardan Pogosian (01:36):
No, I went back to sleep probably. I was I was
pretty happy.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:41):
Yeah, that's all that sounds arduous. that
just can't be fun. At what pointdid you know, you know what,
it's time for me to leave theIRS.
Vardan Pogosian (01:51):
Yeah, it was end of 2013/14. Government
shutdowns. You know, IRS was ina debacle, with Lois Lerner
case. If you recall, Obamaadministration used IRS to
target you know, conservativenonprofits during elections,
that whole mess, basically, longstory short, Congress decided to
(02:14):
punish IRS and, and cut thebudget. So it was pretty rough
times. So and there was nopromotion opportunities. And I
felt like, you know, it was timeto move on. I was in Arizona
sitting in my hotel room, and wewere supposed to visit Grand
Canyon. And Grand Canyon is afederal park and it was shut
(02:38):
down due to government. Youknow, Congress shut down. And
I'm like...
Jerri Hemsworth (02:43):
My work, my play, everything shut down. What
do I do?
Vardan Pogosian (02:46):
Work was shut down, and park was shut down.
I'm like, It's time to talk tomy wife. I said, it's time to
move on, Go out go out on ourown.
Jerri Hemsworth (02:54):
Is that when you started Pogosian planning?
Vardan Pogosian (02:57):
No, I started a traditional CPA firm in 2014.
Just you know, doing taxcompliance, tax preparation,
bookkeeping, payroll, you know,your traditional CPA services.
But also tax planning. So theemphasis was on tax planning all
along. Around 2020, I realized,you know, I need to do this full
(03:20):
time, I need to do tax planningfull time, I need to help my
business owners legally reducetax through this advanced tax
strategies, but it's timeconsuming. It takes vetting it
takes Tax Court research, tokeep up with the tax planning
strategies to keep up with, youknow, what's going on in the tax
(03:41):
planning world.
Jerri Hemsworth (03:42):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (03:42):
So I decided to sell my practice in 2020.
Jerri Hemsworth (03:46):
Okay
Vardan Pogosian (03:47):
And do this full time. So now I have a tax
planning practice where I dothis full time.
Jerri Hemsworth (03:54):
And was that that was obviously where your
joy was, was helping yourclients?
Vardan Pogosian (04:00):
Yes,
Jerri Hemsworth (04:00):
With this? And what kind of process vetting
your clients do you have a set,I don't know process and what is
the type of clients that youtake on?
Vardan Pogosian (04:16):
Sure. So we want to see at least million
dollars in net profits. Why dothey come up with that amount?
It's not like I want to workwith millionaires only. It's
just that's a kind of athreshold where we can bring in
good ROI to our clients. Toreally understand the process.
(04:39):
We have to look from thestandpoint of ROI. So tax
planning is like an investmentproject. You put in money into
the tax planning project, andyou get an ROI back. So through
tax savings, so just likeinvestments you invest in
stocks, mutual bonds, you get anROI back. Tax Planning is very
(05:04):
similar. You invest into a taxplan and you get an ROI in form
of tax saving.
Jerri Hemsworth (05:11):
Sure, that makes sense.
Vardan Pogosian (05:11):
And so, yeah, and to achieve a good ROI, we
generally want to see at leastmillion dollars in net profits.
(05:33):
We're kind of industry agnostic,you know, we don't have an, you
Jerri Hemsworth (05:43):
That's fantastic. And you also deal
with family offices, right? And,that space?
Vardan Pogosian (05:51):
Yeah, we actually have a family office
structure in our practice. Sobesides tax planning, we also
help businesses synergize alltheir other aspects of their
wealth creation, their estateplanning, risk management, you
know, your insurance, andinvestments, Wealth Management,
(06:13):
your retirement investments,your you know, outside of
retirement investments, andwhat, what's unique about us is,
know, particular industry, it'smore profit driven. If you have,
we have a tax first approach.
if you have that income leveland the tax liability in
Jerri Hemsworth (06:24):
Okay.
Vardan Pogosian (06:25):
So we want to address taxes first. So, for
California, you're gonna haveabout 500,000 of taxes on
million dollars. Right. So, wecan help. That's where we come
example, if you have a goodfinancial adviser, and you know,
he has, you know, X amount ofreturns 12% 15%. You know,
in, and, you know, we can dosome damage.
generally you're happy or, youknow, your portfolio is doing
good. But our what we ask is,let, let us look at your tax
(06:48):
situation first. Did youoptimize your taxes? Did you
have a tax plan in place priorto investing? If you just pay
51% tax, and invest it? Andyeah, you're, you have, you
know, great returns on yourinvestment. Or you might be in
real estate. You just pay 51%tax. And that money is never
(07:14):
coming back. It went to UncleSam. It's never coming back.
Jerri Hemsworth (07:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's gone. Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (07:20):
Can we, the question is, can we legally
reduce that amount? Emphasis onlegally, we don't do anything
illegal here? So legally, can wereduce that tax first, then
invest?
Jerri Hemsworth (07:34):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Vardan Pogosian (07:36):
So the second layer is the investments. Once
you saved on taxes, then thereis a tax savvy way to invest
through because tax planningcreates tax advantageous
structures. That's what we do.
And within those structures, youinvest. And when clients see
that the wealth, exponentialwealth, wealth creation is
(08:00):
unparallel. When you addresstaxes first and you invest
within those structures, thereturn on investment is
exponentially higher.
Jerri Hemsworth (08:15):
And I would imagine having that family
office structure and you'reworking with the other
professionals that have the samegoal. That's got to be huge
benefit for the clients.
Massive.
Vardan Pogosian (08:27):
Exactly. And I am at the helm of the family
office as a tax strategist.
Okay. So your family officenormally when you people have
family offices in thosestructures, it's oftentimes
financial advisors at the helmcalling the shots, right, which
is fine. But there is a level upwhere you can have a tax first
(08:52):
approach to your family office.
And Jerri, we find that there isan underserved market. You know,
normally family offices, youwould have to have, you know, 50
million and up.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:08):
Yeah, it's up there.
Vardan Pogosian (09:08):
Yeah, 100 million, you know, they have
500,000 retainer I know, to justeven be in the family office.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:15):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (09:16):
So what what we're, what our niche is that we
go after the underserved market,below 50 million in, in, in, you
know, assets under management.
And we find that they're just atthe mercy of their financial
advisor. Again, nothing againstfinancial advisors. We work with
(09:39):
financial advisors, and weactually have financial advisors
bring into our family structuretheir clients, and they do the
wealth management piece withinour tax planning structures.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (09:54):
So we encourage financial advisors to contact us
to see if we can possibly helptheir clients manage. So in our,
in our family office structure,Jerri, if you're an estate
planning attorney, for example,you can bring in your client and
you as estate planning attorneywill plug in yourself and your
(10:17):
client into that family officestructure, and you will be doing
that piece as estate planningattorney.
Jerri Hemsworth (10:23):
Yeah, they stay, you stay.
Vardan Pogosian (10:26):
Yeah, you stay.
So now you have, you and yourclient have access to the tax
planning strategies that youknow risk management all within
the ecosystem of taxes first.
Jerri Hemsworth (10:41):
Gotcha.
Vardan Pogosian (10:41):
So, and if you're a CPA, you bring in your
client, we don't do CPA work, soyou're gonna continue doing your
CPA work. And now your client isplugged in into this
infrastructure of taxes first,tax planning, taxes first
investment, taxes firstretirement planning, taxes first
(11:02):
insurance.
Jerri Hemsworth (11:03):
Unbelievable.
Is there a minimum for that? Iknow, you know, for the tax
planning, you said a million
Vardan Pogosian (11:09):
In profits
Jerri Hemsworth (11:10):
In profits.
What about the family office?
Vardan Pogosian (11:13):
Family office we can bring in the client,
yeah, we want to see generally 3to 5 million in investable
assets. The threshold is notvery high. I mean, at higher
thresholds, we can offer freetax planning meaning if if you
know someone comes in and andbrings into the infrastructure,
(11:34):
you know, they don't have afinancial advisor they're gonna
utilize our our back office teamfor a wealth management and you
know, asset management. The taxplanning can be part of the deal
Jerri Hemsworth (11:49):
I think this is brilliant, because it, you know,
here.
the family office, thetraditional one that has, you
know, 50 million on up. There'sfar I, I believe there's far
more like you said, theunderserved market that have
between the 2 or 3 or 4 millionto the 50 million, there's far
more need, I can imagine in thatin that space. So I think this
(12:15):
is actually a very brilliantidea.
Vardan Pogosian (12:17):
And they separately get advice from their
financial advisor on investment.
Again, it could be great advice.
Jerri Hemsworth (12:24):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (12:24):
They get insurance products separately.
They don't talk to each other.
No, no, they go to a stateplanning attorney, draw, draw,
they draw up their will, theirtrust. That's separate. No one
talks to each other and theirCPAs filing the return
separately.
Jerri Hemsworth (12:40):
Exactly.
Vardan Pogosian (12:41):
So those pieces don't work together. They're
just on their own. Each onemaybe has the best interest of
the client, but they're workingin a tunnel.
Jerri Hemsworth (12:52):
Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (12:53):
On their own.
Jerri Hemsworth (12:53):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (12:54):
And, but what we're saying is, why won't we
combine this in under a one stopshop, and even possibly the same
advisors can come in and workunder the umbrella of a tax
strategist? A, you know, saysthis IUL policy makes sense from
(13:15):
the tax standpoint, for example.
Can we have a tax advantageousstructure to put this insurance
product for example? Or youknow, you're in equities. How
can we minimize your tax firstand invest within a different
structure? The same equitiesyou're investing now.
Jerri Hemsworth (13:32):
Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (13:33):
It doesn't really matter.
Jerri Hemsworth (13:35):
Not after that 51%,
Vardan Pogosian (13:36):
Yeah, like yeah, if you're, you know, we,
we just might move the sameproduct in a different
Jerri Hemsworth (13:43):
Sure.
Vardan Pogosian (13:44):
So we're not rocking anybody's boat.
Jerri Hemsworth (13:46):
Right.
Vardan Pogosian (13:46):
We're just, you know, saying, hey, let's address
taxes.
Jerri Hemsworth (13:50):
Smart and sensible with the clients. But
the client's goals and theclient's needs first. It's just,
great.
Vardan Pogosian (13:58):
And if someone wants to use our wealth
structure.
management services, investmentadvice, we you know, we've
partnered up with a with a greatcompany. They exclusively work
with people like me, financialplanners, or tax planners or, or
you know, CPAs actually notfinancial planners, they'll
(14:20):
exclusively work with CPAs andtax planners, and they
understand taxes. And they worksynergetically in this family
office environment, and theyunderstand taxes and I'm very
happy to work with them.
Jerri Hemsworth (14:34):
I think that it's again, I think it's
brilliant, what you're doing,absolutely brilliant. Especially
coming from a marketingstandpoint. There's, it feels a
lot more accessible andaffordable for somebody that has
a smaller estate or a smallerbusiness that that is doing
(14:55):
fine. But you know, I need Ifeel like I need more than being
having to talk to my CPA all bythemselves and, and my estate
planning attorney all bythemselves and my insurance
personnel, and to have a onestop shop, as you say, planner
(15:17):
that is helping and alleviatingthat stress of oh gosh, is
everybody talking? Am I doingthis right over here? But oh, it
I just think it's brilliant. Ithink it's absolutely brilliant.
So changing, changing gears alittle bit. What do you do when
(15:39):
you're not working?
Vardan Pogosian (15:40):
I like to travel with my family. Sometimes
friends. I have two boys, 12 And5.
Jerri Hemsworth (15:47):
Yes.
Vardan Pogosian (15:48):
They keep me busy. Happily married. Beautiful
wife who is in business with me.
She is my business partner.
Jerri Hemsworth (15:57):
Well, now there's there's a topic because
I work with my spouse. And, andI think you and I talked a
little bit about this before.
Are you guys really good atstaying in your own lanes? In
running the business?
Vardan Pogosian (16:12):
Yes. We started the CPA firm together back in
2014.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:16):
Okay.
Vardan Pogosian (16:17):
And when our second one was born, yeah, she
just, you know, stayed home. Andnow when I opened my consulting
practice, she's back with me.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:25):
So you just speak the same language?
Vardan Pogosian (16:27):
Yeah. Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:29):
Tax and numbers.
Vardan Pogosian (16:30):
Tax some numbers, she's more into
business development sides,admin, like kind of
administrative office stuffbusiness development. She, you
know, and I stay on my lane withmy tax planning.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:43):
Yeah, I know.
It's, it is really helpful whenyou both have your own lanes and
and focus. But you alsomentioned traveling with your
family. Where are your favoritespots to travel to?
Vardan Pogosian (16:57):
Well, Maui is my favorite spot.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:59):
Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (17:00):
Unfortunately, you know, the fire happened and
hopefully, you know, they'llrecover fast. Mexico, we like to
go to Mexico. We went to Europethis year.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:12):
And you took the boys?
Vardan Pogosian (17:14):
Yeah. Yeah. We took to our boys to Europe, and
they liked it. Yeah, it wasvery, very fun trip was.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:20):
Have you always traveled with the boys? Or did
you leave them home at a certainpoint?
Vardan Pogosian (17:26):
Yeah, I mean, lately, my wife and I will
travel alone. You know, with ourfirst one. I couldn't convince
her. She felt guilty. You know,leaving our first one, you know,
kind of,
Jerri Hemsworth (17:39):
Yeah,we did that. We took our kid with us
everywhere. We went.
Vardan Pogosian (17:42):
Yeah. We had a couple of trips, trips last
couple years. We went to Miami.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:48):
So you like the beach?
Vardan Pogosian (17:49):
Yeah, I'm a beach guy. You know, lay down by
the ocean.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:53):
Are you, are you able to turn off work in
your head when you go onvacation? Are you able to leave
it behind?
Vardan Pogosian (18:00):
Oh, yeah pretty much. Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (18:01):
Yeah.
Vardan Pogosian (18:02):
I'm tempted to look at emails, you know, couple
times but no, I try to, I don'ttake a laptop or anything.
Jerri Hemsworth (18:09):
Good. Good.
Good. Good. The kids. Have youfound as as a dad, your
vacations alter to suit yourkids a little bit more?
Vardan Pogosian (18:21):
Oh, yeah, definitely. We've got to keep
them busy at the resorts. Wewant to see water slides. And
you know, before we go, we havecouple of spots will like in
Mexico. Yeah, Mexico and Hawaii.
So good family resorts.
Jerri Hemsworth (18:37):
Yeah Wailea has some really good ones. Have you
been to the Disney one inWailea?
Vardan Pogosian (18:45):
No.
Jerri Hemsworth (18:45):
We went to we took Libby to Hawaii a couple
times when she was very youngunder five. And then they built
the Wailea Disney Resort afterthat, and I thought, oh my gosh,
we've got to go there, but wenever were able to. And now
she's 23 now she can pay her ownway. But I thought, oh, I gotta
(19:10):
meet somebody who's taken theirkids there and see if you know
how they enjoyed it. I've heardit's fantastic.
Vardan Pogosian (19:14):
Yeah, we should check it out.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:15):
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. You said you went to
school at USC. Why did you pickUSC?
Vardan Pogosian (19:25):
Well, at the time, they still are one of the
best accounting schools in thecountry. They were ranked number
three at the time.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:33):
So you always want to be an accountant?
Vardan Pogosian (19:34):
Yeah, pretty much, yeah pretty much. I came
to this country in '96. And youknow, went USC and I had high
school diploma when I came, sowent to USC and yeah, accounting
was definitely my thing. Youknow, I had a little business in
(19:55):
my, with my uncle when I was ateenager.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:58):
What kind of business?
Vardan Pogosian (20:00):
It was like a little fast food restaurant, you
know, helping him out. And I didthe numbers, you know, you know,
he would ask me to calculatemargins and things like that.
Jerri Hemsworth (20:10):
And you're like, oh, this is fun.
Vardan Pogosian (20:13):
Yeah, I figured
Jerri Hemsworth (20:14):
Counting the money and
Vardan Pogosian (20:16):
Yeah,
Jerri Hemsworth (20:16):
the margins and like, watch it go up and down.
Vardan Pogosian (20:20):
And later on as my career develop, I realized I
like strategic stuff withnumbers, not necessarily
calculating numbers, you know,playing with numbers.
Jerri Hemsworth (20:30):
Yeah, sure.
Like, oh, this is I can see if Iput if I push over here, this
goes up. And if I push downover, this goes down. Now I can
understand that.
Vardan Pogosian (20:41):
And I have a little attorney me also like law
and researching and you know,putting law and numbers
together.
Jerri Hemsworth (20:49):
Yeah. You mentioned tax law in in what you
were saying. And I thought, Wow,that must be really great
reading at night. But you likeit? I mean,
Vardan Pogosian (20:57):
Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (20:58):
Fascinating
Vardan Pogosian (20:59):
Because you need to know the tax law to do
tax planning. Really, you know,you need to understand, you
know, okay, if I arrested inlike a certain strategy, why?
Because they're attackingcertain points in the strategy
that were not done properly. Andthen as you design those plans,
you address IRS's concerns,right.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:19):
Yeah. Then in that way, you solve the problem
before there is one. Yeah. Whenyou were at USC, did you take
tax law? Did they teach you alot of tax law there?
Vardan Pogosian (21:30):
Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:31):
And you were probably a straight A student in
that.
Vardan Pogosian (21:33):
Oh, yeah for the most part. Yeah. A couple of
B+s. Yeah, I was. I did well, onaccounting courses. Definitely.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:43):
But that's so great that you were able to
identify that this is what youlove to do. And and work this
way. And then you were sofocused on working for the IRS.
Vardan Pogosian (21:53):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I, I wanted to, you
know, get that hands onexperience, you know, and at
that time, IRS training wasamazing. Those in-person and
veterans of the industry we'reteaching there.
Jerri Hemsworth (22:09):
Gotcha. Gotcha.
So where did you grew up? Wheredid you have this restaurant
with your uncle?
Vardan Pogosian (22:14):
I grew up in Armenia. Actually, when I was
five, my dad was sent toMongolia.
Jerri Hemsworth (22:21):
Oh, really?
Vardan Pogosian (22:22):
Yeah. During Soviet Union, you know, to help
build Mongolia. So it was acommunist country as well. So I
lived for five years in Asia.
You know, my childhood, youknow, I lived until I was 10, in
Mongolia. So I came back toArmenia when I was 10. And when
I was 18, I went to Russia. Andthat's where we had the
(22:48):
restaurant there, restaurantbusiness for for a year and a
half. And then we wanted a greencard, we came to the U.S.
legally. So in '96, we came toUnited States with family and,
Jerri Hemsworth (23:03):
So your familys here.
Vardan Pogosian (23:04):
Yeah. Familys here.
Jerri Hemsworth (23:05):
That's, that's the best. That's the best.
Vardan, thank you so much forbeing with me today. And I
really love chatting with youabout this. I think it's
fantastic. It's great whatyou're doing.
Vardan Pogosian (23:17):
Thank you, Jerri.
Announcer (23:26):
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