July 24, 2025 • 31 mins
Did you know that laundry is the #1 source of microplastic pollution? With every load of laundry, millions of tiny plastic particles come off our synthetic clothes, down the drain, and into our waterways. In this episode, we speak with Max Pennington, Co-Founder and CEO of CLEANR. Max and his partners may have the solution to plastic pollution we've been looking for. His Cleveland-based company recently launched a patented filter that captures up to 90% of all microplastics from your washing machine before they enter the drain. Max developed this breakthrough technology with fellow engineering students Chip Miller and David Dillman within the Sears think[box], an innovation lab at Case Western Reserve University.
Their VORTX filter design was inspired by the gills of fish, specifically by the way manta rays and basking sharks filter feed. This biomimicry-based design creates a vortex that keeps the filter from clogging while effectively capturing harmful microplastics. These young entrepreneurs recently launched their company CLEANR, with a filter that easily attaches to any washing machine.
Hear how Max and his partners plan to bring this technology to market. Their CLEANR filter is currently available as an external washing machine attachment for $299. The ultimate goal is to integrate it directly into washing machines, making microplastic filtration as standard as lint traps in dryers. The company is also exploring applications beyond laundry, including whole-home water filtration to protect against microplastics entering our bodies through drinking water.
Capturing microplastics before they enter our waterways could be a real game-changer, especially if supported by legislators and policymakers. Would they go for it? Max thinks so. Already, five U.S. states have introduced legislation requiring microplastic filters on washing machines, with similar momentum building in Europe.
With synthetic fibers from our clothing accounting for 35% of all plastic pollution in our water systems, the implications extend far beyond environmental protection. Recent studies have found alarming connections between microplastics in the human body and increased risk of heart disease and other health conditions. These plastic particles have been discovered in human blood, brains, and even the placentas of newborn babies. With an estimated 22 million pounds of microplastic particles entering the Great Lakes annually, the Cleaner team aims to make Cleveland "ground zero in the fight against microplastic pollution," tackling it one laundry load at a time.
Learn More:
About our Guest, Max Pennington, Co-Founder and CEO of CLEANR
About CLEANR
About buying a CLEANR Filter
About Sears think[box]
About microplastics and laundry
About Microplastics and the Great Lakes
Follow us:
https://www.facebook.com/ecospeakscle
https://www.instagram.com/ecospeakscle
Contact us:
hello@ecospeakscle.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Diane Bickett (00:04):
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco-curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends, it's plasticfree July season season again,
(00:24):
where we cover topics related tothe problems of plastic
pollution, and if you listenedway back to episode 14, plastic
Free July is a global movementstarted in 2011 in Australia
that challenges people to stopusing single-use plastics like
water bottles and otherdisposables for cleaner
waterways and oceans.
(00:46):
But campaigns like Plastic-FreeJuly are important to raise
awareness and change consumerhabits, but even the most
conscientious of us cannot domuch about all the thousands of
microplastics we release everytime we wash our clothes.
All those synthetic fiberscoming off of our clothes make
up about 35% of all plasticpollution in our waterways.
(01:09):
Stay tuned, though, becausewe've got some good news for you
today with our guest MaxPennington.
Max is a Young Case alumnus,and he and his partners just
launched their company calledCleaner C-L-E-A-N-R.
It features a special filteringsystem they invented at the
Sears ThinkBox located on thecampus of Case Western Reserve
(01:31):
University.
Their Vortex filter captures90% of all microplastics coming
from your washing machine beforethey go down the drain and into
our wastewater and our lake.
This breakthrough technology,inspired by fish, may just be
the solution to pollution we'vebeen waiting for.
Welcome, max, thank you.
Thanks for joining us.
Max Pennington (01:51):
Excited to be here.
Diane Bickett (01:53):
No pressure right .
You got all the entire plasticpollution solved with your
cleaner vortex technologyExactly, cleaner vortex
technology.
But I was excited to attendyour launch party at the Great
Lakes Science Center on June 3rd, where you had some pretty
impressive people there.
Max Pennington (02:13):
Yeah, it was a wonderful turnout and thank you
for coming.
I was looking over the GreatLakes, Lake Erie and at the
Great Lakes Science Center.
It was a beautiful night andexciting to launch our filter
out in the market.
Diane Bickett (02:25):
Yeah, and it just kind of set the stage for how
big this is going to be.
I mean, you had investors there, you had some heavy hitters.
You had Chris Rone in thecounty executive talking about
the Freshwater Institute thathe's created.
You had the head of case,president of case.
You had Marcus Erickson in fromCalifornia.
He's the head of the Five GyresInstitute and has done a lot of
(02:48):
research on plastic pollutionin the oceans.
So let's get into a little bitabout what this product is that
I'm looking at.
It's about.
Let's describe it for ourlisteners.
Max Pennington (03:00):
Yeah, so it's, I'd say like shoebox sized, it
can go on top of big shoebox.
It can go on top of, next tobeside or on the floor by your
washing machine, so it works onany maker model.
On the back of the filter wehave an inlet and an outlet, so
you basically take the existingwashing machine hose that's in
(03:21):
your wall, you plug it onto ourinlet, we send you a new hose
that goes from the outlet backinto your wall and then our
filter is able to remove 90% ofmicroplastics that otherwise
would have been sent directlyout into the environment and is
ultimately ending up back in ourbodies.
Diane Bickett (03:37):
Wow, Wow.
When did you first become?
We'll get into the details, thespecifics, but when did you
first become aware of plasticpollution and how did that turn
into this new business for you?
Because you're just 25, I meana newly graduated person Tell us
about how all this came to be.
Max Pennington (03:57):
I think I originally learned about
microplastic pollution in 2020.
And I was doing an internshipback home in Cincinnati working
on life cycle assessments forpackaging, and while I was doing
that, I was trying to figureout if paper packaging or
plastic packaging was moresustainable, which is a hard
question to answer outrightOngoing argument.
(04:20):
But one of the big things thatthey didn't account for was what
happens if the paper or theplastic gets out into the
environment and gets littered.
And I thought that was animportant benefit of paper that
wasn't being accounted for inthe study.
So I ended up diving into allthe different ways that plastic
was getting out into really theworld, from the supply chain of
(04:40):
making paper and the supplychain of making plastic, chain
of making paper and the supplychain of making plastic.
And that's when I learned thatthere's washing machines were
somehow the number one source ofmicroplastics pollution and
tires and secondary sources ofmicroplastics.
But really got sort of hookedon the washing machines and came
back to case.
After that summer went to Chipand David who were the two
co-founders we were all in SigmaChi together and we said, hey,
(05:03):
if that's true which it was hardfor us to believe, just because
it's so sort of surprising thatyour clothing's somehow the
number one source ofmicroplastic pollution but we
said, if that's true, we shouldbe able to take a cup with a
mesh on it and put it on ourwashing machine hose in the sink
and see a bunch of stuff.
And we did that and we saw alot of stuff and we were hooked.
(05:28):
I mean we thought, hey, thishas got to be pretty easy to
solve.
There's ThinkBox on campus, wecan just go start 3D printing
filters and get them onto thewashing machine and we can get
rid of the number one source ofmicroplastics.
And three years later, and alot of development and prototype
iterations later, we have afilter that's able to do it.
(05:49):
So it was a lot harder than wethought it was going to be Right
.
Diane Bickett (05:56):
Yeah, talk about that a little bit, because it's
not just a normal filter,because I think everyone talks
about well, why can't we justfilter this stuff out?
Well, microplastics come invarious sizes and now we have
nanoparticles.
Tell us about how biomimicrycomes to play with what you
designed.
Max Pennington (06:11):
Yeah, so sort of at the beginning.
So microplastics any plasticless than five millimeters in
size.
So once you start getting downand down to one micron and then
you start getting into thenanoplastic range.
But with a microplastic youalso catch everything else if
you're going to catch themicroplastics too.
So with the washing machine wecatch 90% of microplastics down
(06:32):
to 50 microns in size.
But we also catch hair, wecatch sand, we catch dirt and in
the early iterations, theexisting forms of technology
that are in the filtration world, like dead end and crossflow
filtration.
If you put them onto a washingmachine they clog up right away.
So I remember we put on someearly iterations of filters that
(06:58):
already exist today on mywashing machine in my apartment
and it actually flooded myapartment.
Diane Bickett (07:01):
Yeah, loose change clogging the filter or
whatever.
Yeah, exactly.
Max Pennington (07:04):
So we pretty quickly realized okay, nothing
that's out there today isactually going to work.
And we were doing all thisiteration at the ThinkBox down
on the third floor with the 3Dprinters and the prototyping
equipment that they have, and aswe started to realize that the
existing forms of technologywouldn't actually get the
filtration job done, that waswhen we ended up turning to
(07:25):
nature and we sort of learnedfrom how fish filter, sort of
learned from how fish filter.
So a fish like a basking sharkor a manta ray actually use
their gills to create a vortexthat keeps their gills from
clogging as they're filteringout their food, and similar to
that.
We actually just got our patentfor our vortex technology,
which is inspired by manta raysand basking sharks and how they
(07:49):
filter, but we use a vortex tokeep our 50 micron mesh from
clogging as we filter out themicroplastics from a washing
machine so how does a vortexfilter work then?
Diane Bickett (08:02):
it's spinning, then no, so it's static, okay.
Max Pennington (08:04):
So what happens is the water comes in from right
to left and then, basically,the way that it flows over the
rib, it ends up creating a lowerpressure region where it swirls
, and then that swirl creates ashear force on the mesh, and the
shear force is what actuallykeeps the particulate in
suspension and moves it down sothat it's separated and moves
(08:28):
into the pod oh.
Greg Rotuno (08:30):
It looks like a giant plastic corkscrew for
people listening who can't seeit.
Diane Bickett (08:34):
Yeah, and the outside of it looks like a cone
filter for your coffee maker.
Max Pennington (08:39):
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (08:40):
So the water, the big stuff circles, gets
suspended within the vortexitself, the twisted part, and
then the water comes out of thefilter-y.
Max Pennington (08:50):
Yeah, so the water's always coming out of
this, yeah exactly, and then allthe particles get pushed down
the vortex and they get pushedinto the pod, which is the part
that collects all of themicroplastics.
Once a week, as a consumer, youhave to take the pod out, you
throw it away and you put in anew pod.
Diane Bickett (09:09):
Help, describe what a one micron size might
look like.
Can we see it with the nakedeye?
Max Pennington (09:18):
I probably couldn't see it.
I mean, you could see it like apiece of dust or like the
diameter of a human hair is,like down on the 30 to 50 micron
scale.
Diane Bickett (09:30):
Okay.
So when you were testing yourdifferent models, how many
variations did you come up withand how did you test it?
You're looking, literallylooking at what's collected on
our microscope and counting themsomehow it took a while.
Max Pennington (09:45):
So we've tested in every way that we can imagine
.
So we've done tests by weight.
So you'll weigh what you putinto the filter and then weigh
what comes out of the filter andthen you basically say, hey, if
we captured 90%, then only 10%should come out of the filter.
If we also have done likedynamic image analysis, which
(10:05):
you basically take two samplesand then you send it to a laser
that gets shot through it andthen looks at how the light
deflects and then estimates thesize and the number of the
particles, we've done microscopeanalysis, where you actually
look at the different pods undera microscope and count them by
hand or with an algorithm.
Those are the main ones we'vedone.
Diane Bickett (10:28):
Did you develop this as students or did this
come later?
Was it a class project?
Max Pennington (10:34):
It wasn't a class project.
It was more of a passionproject.
We started when we werestudents.
So we started when I was asenior and Chip and David were
juniors and we were doing itreally in our free time and it
turned into all of our time.
Diane Bickett (10:48):
You have free time.
As a case engineering student,I'm impressed.
Max Pennington (10:52):
Not much, but we put more and more focus on
cleaner, maybe to slight troubleof our schooling needs, but
it's what cleaner needed.
Diane Bickett (11:04):
Yeah, but you're on your way.
Very exciting.
So is the idea that individualswill buy this or is the idea
that you will install these,like in industrial applications,
like on college campuses orwork?
Ultimate goal is to see thetechnology integrated into the
washing machine across all ofthe washing machine makers, so
(11:39):
we work with most of them.
Max Pennington (11:41):
We're trying to get it as a feature that comes
pre-installed, just like a dryerlint filter, where you
basically open up the washingmachine, you already have a
microplastics filter and it's onthe inside, because we think
that's ultimately how to scalethe solution and how we're
really going to have the biggestimpact.
The external filter is astepping stone to show A that
people care about this, sopeople that buy the filter early
(12:03):
on.
We use that data to work withthe washing machine
manufacturers and show thatthere are people that care that
microplastics are being dumpedout of their washing machine and
that they're actually willingto do something about it.
So all of that data and earlysupport is critical in terms of
actually getting it into awashing machine.
We're also working withuniversities, so we've installed
on three different universitycampuses.
(12:23):
We've installed at Case WesternReserve University, the
University of Akron and theUniversity of South Alabama, and
we are also selling on ourwebsite so you can go to
wwwcleanerlife and buy a filtertoday.
Diane Bickett (12:37):
And how much will it cost me?
Max Pennington (12:39):
They retail for $299.
And then obviously we'reworking on driving that down.
We think it'll be substantiallycheaper on the inside of a
washing machine.
Diane Bickett (12:47):
But yeah, that's awesome.
But yeah, that's awesome.
I think you know we all want tomove more towards natural
clothing and fibers.
But it's really hard.
Max Pennington (13:00):
I mean, we've covered this on our show a lot
and it's hard to find stuff thatis a pure item, that is,
doesn't have some kind ofplastic in it yeah, I think that
can also that I've found thatto be like a misconception at
times with people if they thinklike they're wearing cotton and
it's like, totally fine, wherethey don't like look at, okay,
(13:20):
but what's the dye made out of?
That is on my cotton t-shirt,what, like other types of
additives are like?
Because you end up with thislike core cotton fiber but it's
sprayed with a lot of plasticadditives where you really don't
want that going out into theworld either or into your body
wow.
Diane Bickett (13:37):
So what's the potential impact for, like, if I
install one of these and I washfour loads a week?
What's the impact in terms ofwhat I'm reducing going into the
environment?
Max Pennington (13:51):
millions of microplastics, every load of
laundry that you do.
Greg Rotuno (13:54):
For every load.
Max Pennington (13:55):
Oh, yeah, yeah, and we actually estimate the
number of microplastics thatyou've removed in our app.
So all of the filters are smartenabled and you can download an
app that will track how manyloads of laundry you've done
with the filter and we actuallyestimate the number that you've
removed in terms of credit cardequivalents, so like the weight
of a credit card ofmicroplastics, and it will like
(14:15):
build a credit card as you usethe filter and then tell you how
many that you've removed.
Diane Bickett (14:20):
That's a really cool thing to incorporate in
that whole app, so you canthere's like instant feedback
that you're doing something.
Max Pennington (14:28):
Yeah, and it will tell you, like when you
need to clean the filter, youcan buy replacement filters
directly from the app.
And then we're always workingon expanding it so like we've
done a fair amount of pilotingand then learn that people
really like the app.
So we're trying to add newfeatures and listen to what
people are saying and just makeit like a really nice experience
as you're removingmicroplastics to a learn about
where else are microplasticscoming from?
(14:49):
What else can I do about it?
And then how much of an impacthave I made with the filter?
Diane Bickett (14:53):
Wow.
Well, I think I read on theAlliance for the Great Lakes
that 20,.
On their website they have astat from Rochester Institute of
Technology that 22 millionpounds of microplastic particles
enter the Great Lakes everyyear.
It's it's kind of scary it'svery scary.
Max Pennington (15:14):
Yeah, there's been three papers that have come
out recently that sort of scareme.
Them like.
There's a paper from theamerican college of cardiology
that found those withmicroplastics in their um I
forget the exact name of how itwas worded, but basically in in
the part of the body they werestudying were more likely to
have a heart attack than thosethat didn't.
And then there was a studyrecently from Case that found
(15:37):
microplastics concentration inthe body to be in the top 10
indicators for non-communicabledisease correlation.
So both of those were prettyterrifying to me.
Diane Bickett (15:47):
If you did all the right things, you would
still be exposed to plasticpollution because it's so
pervasive in the environment.
Max Pennington (15:56):
You really got to cut it off at the source, I
think.
So you have to stop it at thesource, and our vision is to not
only help people cut it off atthe source and reduce their
emissions, but also reduce theirintake.
So we want to removemicroplastics not only leaving
your home, but also coming intoyour home.
So we're working on differentapplications of our vortex
technology to actually, you know, filter out home, whole home
(16:18):
water filtration or tap waterfiltration, so that your tap
water will be microplastic freetoo.
So that's that's our vision,that's what we're trying to
build, and you know, all theearly support and getting the
word out helps as we continue tobuild to that.
Diane Bickett (16:33):
Yeah, capturing at the source makes so much more
sense than trying to clean upan ocean.
I mean some of thosetechnologies.
I think they play well onsocial media.
Buy a plastic bracelet madefrom recycled plastic.
Max Pennington (16:46):
That came out of the ocean.
I think I'm wearing one, okay.
Diane Bickett (16:51):
But I think to really have an impact you got to
do what you're doing, which iscapturing it at the front end.
What kind of other applicationsdo you foresee growing into,
like treatments for wastewatertreatment plants or outflows,
you know, combined seweroverflows and that kind of stuff
(17:11):
?
Max Pennington (17:13):
We're interested in.
I think part of the problem too, like I've often been asked the
question well, why don't youjust make the vortex really big
and make it so that everybodydoesn't have to have a filter
and just there's one big filterat the wastewater treatment
plant and the problem is like assoon as it leaves the washing
machine it gets diluted by allthe other water that's leaving
your home and everybody else'shome.
(17:35):
So it's like it's combined withthe shower water and the sink
water and the toilet water.
So then the microplastics thatwere in 50 liters of water that
you could have gotten are now in300 liters of water.
So it's like already a harderjob to be done.
And then it all gets combinedwith everybody else's water.
So you're talking about likemillions of gallons of water
(18:00):
that you have to try to deal um.
So I mean, I think it wouldwork at that scale.
I just I think the problem iscan you actually have the impact
and can you filter down to thesame level that you could on the
washing machine itself?
Diane Bickett (18:09):
yeah, one step at a time, very american.
Greg Rotuno (18:12):
American solution to the problem, just make it
bigger.
Diane Bickett (18:16):
Yeah, exactly, let someone else deal with it.
So you're from Cincinnati, yeah, yeah, and you mentioned to me
on the way in here that theSears ThinkBox kind of drove
your decision to come here.
Max Pennington (18:35):
It did yeah.
Diane Bickett (18:36):
Tell us more about this facility and how it's
helping you launch your productas a young entrepreneur.
Max Pennington (18:42):
Sure.
So the Sears ThinkBox has beencritical, I think, throughout
our whole development.
It's a seven-story openmakerspace.
It's the largest openmakerspace in the United States.
It has really everything thatyou would has a woodworking shop
, metalworking shop, hasconference room space and it has
an incubator floor on theseventh floor, which is where
(19:17):
our office is based out of.
And it's this idea that you canhave everything you need to
start a company in one building,including all of the equipment
and the resources, and it's allfree and open to use.
You really just have to pay foryour materials and if you don't
want to do that, you can bringyour own materials.
So it was the perfect launchingpad for what we were trying to
build with Cleaner, and I thinkit's made my love for Cleveland
(19:37):
grow.
It's made my love for CaseWestern Reserve University grow
and it's part of the big reasonthat I think Cleveland can be
the ground zero in the fightagainst microplastics pollution,
and I think the whole Cleanerteam believes that too.
Diane Bickett (19:49):
That's exciting.
I like the vision.
Are you making these here?
Max Pennington (19:54):
We are not making them here.
Okay yeah, so we've prototypedand designed.
Diane Bickett (19:57):
Not a manufacturing facility at scale.
Max Pennington (20:00):
Yeah, so it's great for prototyping and design
, but for mass production notquite.
So yeah, it helps you get.
I didn't think so.
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (20:10):
And you're from Cincinnati.
Max Pennington (20:11):
Yes, yeah, from Madeira.
And then I was trying to decidewhere to go to school and saw
the think box and saw what Ithought was a ton of opportunity
to come up here and decided toinvest in myself and came up to
Case instead of some otherschools that I could have gone
to like basically for free, backin Cincinnati, and came up to
Case instead of some otherschools that I could have gone
to like basically for free backin Cincinnati and haven't looked
(20:35):
back.
Greg Rotuno (20:39):
Well, there's so much innovation going on here in
Cleveland and love that we gotsome big minds moving, you know,
willing to move here and workon these issues.
Diane Bickett (20:45):
There's so much innovation that can happen
around water.
That's already happeningthrough the Cleveland Water
Alliance, who came on ourpodcast, and other work being
done in the region.
What role so entrepreneurs playa role?
What role does government andlegislation play in requiring
(21:07):
this sort of technology?
Max Pennington (21:09):
I think they're going to play a key role.
I think, really, the more thatwe learn about the health
consequences of microplastics,as it becomes more concrete, as
more people become aware of thefact that we have a spoonful of
microplastics in our brain, thatmicroplastics are in our blood,
microplastics are in theplacenta of newborn babies, I
think people are going to demanda change and I think that
(21:31):
legislators are going to be thekey decision maker in terms of
driving that change so that thewashing machine makers actually
have to listen and put it in allof the washing machines,
because that's how it reallygets the scale.
I think, to start, hopefully, wecan get it on the inside of a
premium washing machine and havesome level of if you pay a
little bit more so that thewashing machine manufacturer's
(21:53):
margins stay intact that you canactually get a model with an
early microplastics filter.
But to get it at scale whereeverybody has an integrated
microplastic system, it's reallygoing to fall on the
legislators to demand thatthat's part of what is in the
washing machine making industry.
Yes, there's five US statesthat have introduced legislation
that would require microplasticfilters for washing machines.
Diane Bickett (22:15):
Really, what are those?
Max Pennington (22:16):
California, oregon, illinois, new Jersey and
Pennsylvania, and they're all alittle bit different, but the
one that's the most differentNew Jersey has actually
introduced a rebate program,which we think is particularly
interesting for the US consumer,where basically, if you go buy
a washing machine or a washingmachine filter, you would get a
(22:37):
federal rebate for doing so thewashing machine if it has a
microplastics filter, which nonedo yet.
But we think that's a reallynice win-win-win where the
government is helping tosubsidize consumers that want to
take the early step to actuallyhave microplastic filtration
technology on washing machines.
So we really like that model interms of getting some early
(23:00):
adopters.
There's also EU-basedlegislation where France passed,
actually, a bill that wouldrequire microplastic filters in
all newly produced washingmachines by 2025.
It is 2025.
So that hasn't happened yet.
It got a little fuzzy becausethey went out ahead of the rest
of the European Union and therest of the European Union said
(23:21):
hey, we can't have Frenchconsumers driving across the
border into Germany to buy awashing machine without a
microplastics filter for cheaper, so you're going to have to
hold off on that law and waituntil we do it at an EU wide
level.
Diane Bickett (23:34):
Wow, you really are poised to do this thing,
except for, maybe, ohio.
What's going on with Ohio?
Max Pennington (23:41):
I know I'm trying, Got to get them going
with us.
Diane Bickett (23:45):
I'll introduce you to Tristan Rader.
He's a new state legislator andhe's an environmentalist.
Max Pennington (23:51):
Yeah, please.
Diane Bickett (23:52):
He would be interested, I'll send him a link
to this episode.
Max Pennington (23:56):
Perfect.
Diane Bickett (23:56):
He's been on the show before when he was with
United, thank you.
Thank you, greg.
What other innovations wouldyou like to see to reduce
microplastic pollution?
Max Pennington (24:12):
I think one of the big ones that I'm always
asked about is what are we goingto do to protect ourselves Like
, how are we going to make surethat microplastics aren't coming
into my body or coming inthrough my tap water?
And I think that's where I'mreally excited about working to
take the Vortex and applying itso that it filters out water
coming into your home as well,because I think that's really it
(24:35):
will help raise awareness.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat feel really scared about
the level of microplastics thatare coming into their home, and
to use the technology and workto make that a reality.
Just, we've been asked so manytimes when that's going to come,
so we're really excited tostart working on that.
Diane Bickett (24:51):
Okay, exciting.
So I think I never finished mythought when I asked you where
you're actually making these.
Oh, do we skip over that Maybe?
Where are you making them?
Max Pennington (25:03):
Yeah, so we produce them in Asia today, so
they're produced in China andthen shipped over into the US.
Diane Bickett (25:09):
Okay, Do you have a goal of onshoring production?
I'm sure you do.
Max Pennington (25:14):
Yes, the external filter.
For us, like I was saying, it'sreally the stepping stone into
the marketplace.
So it was more important aboutspeed to market.
I think, once we get to theintegrated forms of the
technology, if the manufacturingis still in our hands which
we're still trying to decidewhether or not that's something
that we want, if we want to be amanufacturer as a company,
(25:35):
there's some advantages to it,there's some disadvantages to it
.
Part of us, we want to licensethe technology and give it to
the washing machine makers sothat they can produce it in
their facilities that they havetoday.
And some of the washing machinemakers had said hey, you
already produced the Vortex, whydon't you keep producing the
Vortex?
So it's going to be a balancebetween what do we want to do
(25:56):
and what do the washing machinemakers want.
But at the time that it wouldbe integrated into the washing
machine and we scale upproduction, we would want to
have it scaled up in the countrythat it's being sold in we
would want to have it scaled upin the country that it's being
sold in.
Diane Bickett (26:10):
So, and your business model is still TBD, I
guess get these out thereLooking for investors.
Max Pennington (26:18):
So we, actually we just like finished up our
latest investment round, whichwe're super excited about.
That was sort of the, I guess,in between our Series C and
Series A round.
So then we're going to raiseour next investment round sort
of in the next like 12 to 18months.
Diane Bickett (26:37):
Good luck.
How much are you trying toraise?
Max Pennington (26:40):
We're still trying to decide how much we're
going to raise at the Series A.
It depends on, like, how manyadjacencies we're trying to go
after.
So if we're going after wholehome water filtration and we're
going after hospital laundry,then we might need more capital
than if we're get picked up byone of the big washing machine
makers and they want to sell 10000 of our external units.
(27:00):
So we're trying to wait and seeto.
You know kind of look at ourcards and then figure out how
much we want to raise at thatpoint.
Diane Bickett (27:07):
Do you have a patent pending on the filter
itself?
Max Pennington (27:11):
then yeah, we actually.
So last week we got the patentfor the Vortex.
Diane Bickett (27:16):
Oh, congratulations, thank you.
That costs a lot of money justto get that far right.
Max Pennington (27:20):
Yes, yeah, a lot of money and a lot of time, but
we got this golden sheet fromthe uspto that was, you know,
signed and everything.
So it was a cool moment for ourteam to look at it and we got
the technology for washingmachines and then use cases
beyond washing machines, so itwasn't specific to washing
(27:40):
machines okay, that's smart um,which was really great because
we to a year ago won theamerican filtration, filtration
and Separation Society's NewProduct of the Year for the
Vortex.
So we've had a number ofincoming requests from companies
just in the filtration spaceasking if they can use the
Vortex for their specificfiltration challenges, and some
(28:02):
of those have actually, most ofthem have nothing to do with
washing machines, so it wasreally great to get that broad
of coverage.
Diane Bickett (28:09):
Well, you probably haven't even considered
all the various applicationsthat apply to learning.
How do you sell the this to theneed for this to consumers?
I know you know the folkslistening to this podcast
probably totally get it.
But the general public.
How do you sell that idea?
(28:31):
What's your marketing strategythere?
Max Pennington (28:33):
I think part of it is seeing is believing.
So we actually have a lot ofmicroscopic images of what we're
capturing coming out of thewashing machine and we plan to
show those.
So we've been doing a lot oflike social media marketing.
We've started some influencercampaigns where you can actually
go like see influencers withour filter installed in their
house and then they were takingtheir pods and taking microscope
(28:57):
images of them and reallytrying to grow and raise
awareness at a broader levelthat washing machines are the
number one source ofmicroplastics pollution, because
I think now people understandwhat microplastics are and that
they're scary and we probablydon't want them in our bodies.
I think there is a big gap stillthat clothing is the largest
(29:19):
source of microplastic pollutionand that there's something that
you can actually do about that,where you can filter them out,
and that you can actually seethe impact that you're making.
And I think another part is theapp.
We really hope it helps spreadword of mouth.
So one of the things we'regoing to do is have a shareable
feature where you can show howmany credit cards you've removed
(29:39):
while you're using your filter,and we're also starting to
think with the Nest thermostatyou can like see where the other
like Nest users are around you.
So it could be kind of fun tobe like, hey, there's this many
cleaners in your neighborhood.
So we're like looking atdifferent features to help build
like a cleaner community aroundthe early adopters that are
(29:59):
willing to really step up andhelp us show that there's demand
for a product like this, andthat kind of demand is what's
key for us getting it on theinside of a washing machine.
So we're trying to make sureeverybody feels like a community
and knows how grateful we arefor the early support and on the
mission to really try to cutoff microplastics pollution.
I mean, I like to say it a lotbut I really do think that
(30:22):
Cleveland can be the ground zeroin the fight against
microplastic pollution and we'reproud to be building this in
Cleveland and just excited tokeep going and bring it to
market and start going afterother sources of microplastic
pollution and the way thatthey're coming into and out of
your homes.
Diane Bickett (30:39):
Well, max, thank you so much for doing this work
here, for coming up with thisproduct and excited to see where
this grows.
Max Pennington (30:48):
Thank you, it's very good Thanks for having me.
Diane Bickett (30:50):
I wish you well.
Yeah, thank you.
Greg Rotuno (30:52):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
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Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
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(31:13):
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us at hello at EcoSpeakCLEcom.
Stay tuned for more importantand inspiring stories to come.
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco-curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends, it's plasticfree July season season again,
(00:24):
where we cover topics related tothe problems of plastic
pollution, and if you listenedway back to episode 14, plastic
Free July is a global movementstarted in 2011 in Australia
that challenges people to stopusing single-use plastics like
water bottles and otherdisposables for cleaner
waterways and oceans.
(00:46):
But campaigns like Plastic-FreeJuly are important to raise
awareness and change consumerhabits, but even the most
conscientious of us cannot domuch about all the thousands of
microplastics we release everytime we wash our clothes.
All those synthetic fiberscoming off of our clothes make
up about 35% of all plasticpollution in our waterways.
(01:09):
Stay tuned, though, becausewe've got some good news for you
today with our guest MaxPennington.
Max is a Young Case alumnus,and he and his partners just
launched their company calledCleaner C-L-E-A-N-R.
It features a special filteringsystem they invented at the
Sears ThinkBox located on thecampus of Case Western Reserve
(01:31):
University.
Their Vortex filter captures90% of all microplastics coming
from your washing machine beforethey go down the drain and into
our wastewater and our lake.
This breakthrough technology,inspired by fish, may just be
the solution to pollution we'vebeen waiting for.
Welcome, max, thank you.
Thanks for joining us.
Max Pennington (01:51):
Excited to be here.
Diane Bickett (01:53):
No pressure right .
You got all the entire plasticpollution solved with your
cleaner vortex technologyExactly, cleaner vortex
technology.
But I was excited to attendyour launch party at the Great
Lakes Science Center on June 3rd, where you had some pretty
impressive people there.
Max Pennington (02:13):
Yeah, it was a wonderful turnout and thank you
for coming.
I was looking over the GreatLakes, Lake Erie and at the
Great Lakes Science Center.
It was a beautiful night andexciting to launch our filter
out in the market.
Diane Bickett (02:25):
Yeah, and it just kind of set the stage for how
big this is going to be.
I mean, you had investors there, you had some heavy hitters.
You had Chris Rone in thecounty executive talking about
the Freshwater Institute thathe's created.
You had the head of case,president of case.
You had Marcus Erickson in fromCalifornia.
He's the head of the Five GyresInstitute and has done a lot of
(02:48):
research on plastic pollutionin the oceans.
So let's get into a little bitabout what this product is that
I'm looking at.
It's about.
Let's describe it for ourlisteners.
Max Pennington (03:00):
Yeah, so it's, I'd say like shoebox sized, it
can go on top of big shoebox.
It can go on top of, next tobeside or on the floor by your
washing machine, so it works onany maker model.
On the back of the filter wehave an inlet and an outlet, so
you basically take the existingwashing machine hose that's in
(03:21):
your wall, you plug it onto ourinlet, we send you a new hose
that goes from the outlet backinto your wall and then our
filter is able to remove 90% ofmicroplastics that otherwise
would have been sent directlyout into the environment and is
ultimately ending up back in ourbodies.
Diane Bickett (03:37):
Wow, Wow.
When did you first become?
We'll get into the details, thespecifics, but when did you
first become aware of plasticpollution and how did that turn
into this new business for you?
Because you're just 25, I meana newly graduated person Tell us
about how all this came to be.
Max Pennington (03:57):
I think I originally learned about
microplastic pollution in 2020.
And I was doing an internshipback home in Cincinnati working
on life cycle assessments forpackaging, and while I was doing
that, I was trying to figureout if paper packaging or
plastic packaging was moresustainable, which is a hard
question to answer outrightOngoing argument.
(04:20):
But one of the big things thatthey didn't account for was what
happens if the paper or theplastic gets out into the
environment and gets littered.
And I thought that was animportant benefit of paper that
wasn't being accounted for inthe study.
So I ended up diving into allthe different ways that plastic
was getting out into really theworld, from the supply chain of
(04:40):
making paper and the supplychain of making plastic, chain
of making paper and the supplychain of making plastic.
And that's when I learned thatthere's washing machines were
somehow the number one source ofmicroplastics pollution and
tires and secondary sources ofmicroplastics.
But really got sort of hookedon the washing machines and came
back to case.
After that summer went to Chipand David who were the two
co-founders we were all in SigmaChi together and we said, hey,
(05:03):
if that's true which it was hardfor us to believe, just because
it's so sort of surprising thatyour clothing's somehow the
number one source ofmicroplastic pollution but we
said, if that's true, we shouldbe able to take a cup with a
mesh on it and put it on ourwashing machine hose in the sink
and see a bunch of stuff.
And we did that and we saw alot of stuff and we were hooked.
(05:28):
I mean we thought, hey, thishas got to be pretty easy to
solve.
There's ThinkBox on campus, wecan just go start 3D printing
filters and get them onto thewashing machine and we can get
rid of the number one source ofmicroplastics.
And three years later, and alot of development and prototype
iterations later, we have afilter that's able to do it.
(05:49):
So it was a lot harder than wethought it was going to be Right
.
Diane Bickett (05:56):
Yeah, talk about that a little bit, because it's
not just a normal filter,because I think everyone talks
about well, why can't we justfilter this stuff out?
Well, microplastics come invarious sizes and now we have
nanoparticles.
Tell us about how biomimicrycomes to play with what you
designed.
Max Pennington (06:11):
Yeah, so sort of at the beginning.
So microplastics any plasticless than five millimeters in
size.
So once you start getting downand down to one micron and then
you start getting into thenanoplastic range.
But with a microplastic youalso catch everything else if
you're going to catch themicroplastics too.
So with the washing machine wecatch 90% of microplastics down
(06:32):
to 50 microns in size.
But we also catch hair, wecatch sand, we catch dirt and in
the early iterations, theexisting forms of technology
that are in the filtration world, like dead end and crossflow
filtration.
If you put them onto a washingmachine they clog up right away.
So I remember we put on someearly iterations of filters that
(06:58):
already exist today on mywashing machine in my apartment
and it actually flooded myapartment.
Diane Bickett (07:01):
Yeah, loose change clogging the filter or
whatever.
Yeah, exactly.
Max Pennington (07:04):
So we pretty quickly realized okay, nothing
that's out there today isactually going to work.
And we were doing all thisiteration at the ThinkBox down
on the third floor with the 3Dprinters and the prototyping
equipment that they have, and aswe started to realize that the
existing forms of technologywouldn't actually get the
filtration job done, that waswhen we ended up turning to
(07:25):
nature and we sort of learnedfrom how fish filter, sort of
learned from how fish filter.
So a fish like a basking sharkor a manta ray actually use
their gills to create a vortexthat keeps their gills from
clogging as they're filteringout their food, and similar to
that.
We actually just got our patentfor our vortex technology,
which is inspired by manta raysand basking sharks and how they
(07:49):
filter, but we use a vortex tokeep our 50 micron mesh from
clogging as we filter out themicroplastics from a washing
machine so how does a vortexfilter work then?
Diane Bickett (08:02):
it's spinning, then no, so it's static, okay.
Max Pennington (08:04):
So what happens is the water comes in from right
to left and then, basically,the way that it flows over the
rib, it ends up creating a lowerpressure region where it swirls
, and then that swirl creates ashear force on the mesh, and the
shear force is what actuallykeeps the particulate in
suspension and moves it down sothat it's separated and moves
(08:28):
into the pod oh.
Greg Rotuno (08:30):
It looks like a giant plastic corkscrew for
people listening who can't seeit.
Diane Bickett (08:34):
Yeah, and the outside of it looks like a cone
filter for your coffee maker.
Max Pennington (08:39):
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (08:40):
So the water, the big stuff circles, gets
suspended within the vortexitself, the twisted part, and
then the water comes out of thefilter-y.
Max Pennington (08:50):
Yeah, so the water's always coming out of
this, yeah exactly, and then allthe particles get pushed down
the vortex and they get pushedinto the pod, which is the part
that collects all of themicroplastics.
Once a week, as a consumer, youhave to take the pod out, you
throw it away and you put in anew pod.
Diane Bickett (09:09):
Help, describe what a one micron size might
look like.
Can we see it with the nakedeye?
Max Pennington (09:18):
I probably couldn't see it.
I mean, you could see it like apiece of dust or like the
diameter of a human hair is,like down on the 30 to 50 micron
scale.
Diane Bickett (09:30):
Okay.
So when you were testing yourdifferent models, how many
variations did you come up withand how did you test it?
You're looking, literallylooking at what's collected on
our microscope and counting themsomehow it took a while.
Max Pennington (09:45):
So we've tested in every way that we can imagine
.
So we've done tests by weight.
So you'll weigh what you putinto the filter and then weigh
what comes out of the filter andthen you basically say, hey, if
we captured 90%, then only 10%should come out of the filter.
If we also have done likedynamic image analysis, which
(10:05):
you basically take two samplesand then you send it to a laser
that gets shot through it andthen looks at how the light
deflects and then estimates thesize and the number of the
particles, we've done microscopeanalysis, where you actually
look at the different pods undera microscope and count them by
hand or with an algorithm.
Those are the main ones we'vedone.
Diane Bickett (10:28):
Did you develop this as students or did this
come later?
Was it a class project?
Max Pennington (10:34):
It wasn't a class project.
It was more of a passionproject.
We started when we werestudents.
So we started when I was asenior and Chip and David were
juniors and we were doing itreally in our free time and it
turned into all of our time.
Diane Bickett (10:48):
You have free time.
As a case engineering student,I'm impressed.
Max Pennington (10:52):
Not much, but we put more and more focus on
cleaner, maybe to slight troubleof our schooling needs, but
it's what cleaner needed.
Diane Bickett (11:04):
Yeah, but you're on your way.
Very exciting.
So is the idea that individualswill buy this or is the idea
that you will install these,like in industrial applications,
like on college campuses orwork?
Ultimate goal is to see thetechnology integrated into the
washing machine across all ofthe washing machine makers, so
(11:39):
we work with most of them.
Max Pennington (11:41):
We're trying to get it as a feature that comes
pre-installed, just like a dryerlint filter, where you
basically open up the washingmachine, you already have a
microplastics filter and it's onthe inside, because we think
that's ultimately how to scalethe solution and how we're
really going to have the biggestimpact.
The external filter is astepping stone to show A that
people care about this, sopeople that buy the filter early
(12:03):
on.
We use that data to work withthe washing machine
manufacturers and show thatthere are people that care that
microplastics are being dumpedout of their washing machine and
that they're actually willingto do something about it.
So all of that data and earlysupport is critical in terms of
actually getting it into awashing machine.
We're also working withuniversities, so we've installed
on three different universitycampuses.
(12:23):
We've installed at Case WesternReserve University, the
University of Akron and theUniversity of South Alabama, and
we are also selling on ourwebsite so you can go to
wwwcleanerlife and buy a filtertoday.
Diane Bickett (12:37):
And how much will it cost me?
Max Pennington (12:39):
They retail for $299.
And then obviously we'reworking on driving that down.
We think it'll be substantiallycheaper on the inside of a
washing machine.
Diane Bickett (12:47):
But yeah, that's awesome.
But yeah, that's awesome.
I think you know we all want tomove more towards natural
clothing and fibers.
But it's really hard.
Max Pennington (13:00):
I mean, we've covered this on our show a lot
and it's hard to find stuff thatis a pure item, that is,
doesn't have some kind ofplastic in it yeah, I think that
can also that I've found thatto be like a misconception at
times with people if they thinklike they're wearing cotton and
it's like, totally fine, wherethey don't like look at, okay,
(13:20):
but what's the dye made out of?
That is on my cotton t-shirt,what, like other types of
additives are like?
Because you end up with thislike core cotton fiber but it's
sprayed with a lot of plasticadditives where you really don't
want that going out into theworld either or into your body
wow.
Diane Bickett (13:37):
So what's the potential impact for, like, if I
install one of these and I washfour loads a week?
What's the impact in terms ofwhat I'm reducing going into the
environment?
Max Pennington (13:51):
millions of microplastics, every load of
laundry that you do.
Greg Rotuno (13:54):
For every load.
Max Pennington (13:55):
Oh, yeah, yeah, and we actually estimate the
number of microplastics thatyou've removed in our app.
So all of the filters are smartenabled and you can download an
app that will track how manyloads of laundry you've done
with the filter and we actuallyestimate the number that you've
removed in terms of credit cardequivalents, so like the weight
of a credit card ofmicroplastics, and it will like
(14:15):
build a credit card as you usethe filter and then tell you how
many that you've removed.
Diane Bickett (14:20):
That's a really cool thing to incorporate in
that whole app, so you canthere's like instant feedback
that you're doing something.
Max Pennington (14:28):
Yeah, and it will tell you, like when you
need to clean the filter, youcan buy replacement filters
directly from the app.
And then we're always workingon expanding it so like we've
done a fair amount of pilotingand then learn that people
really like the app.
So we're trying to add newfeatures and listen to what
people are saying and just makeit like a really nice experience
as you're removingmicroplastics to a learn about
where else are microplasticscoming from?
(14:49):
What else can I do about it?
And then how much of an impacthave I made with the filter?
Diane Bickett (14:53):
Wow.
Well, I think I read on theAlliance for the Great Lakes
that 20,.
On their website they have astat from Rochester Institute of
Technology that 22 millionpounds of microplastic particles
enter the Great Lakes everyyear.
It's it's kind of scary it'svery scary.
Max Pennington (15:14):
Yeah, there's been three papers that have come
out recently that sort of scareme.
Them like.
There's a paper from theamerican college of cardiology
that found those withmicroplastics in their um I
forget the exact name of how itwas worded, but basically in in
the part of the body they werestudying were more likely to
have a heart attack than thosethat didn't.
And then there was a studyrecently from Case that found
(15:37):
microplastics concentration inthe body to be in the top 10
indicators for non-communicabledisease correlation.
So both of those were prettyterrifying to me.
Diane Bickett (15:47):
If you did all the right things, you would
still be exposed to plasticpollution because it's so
pervasive in the environment.
Max Pennington (15:56):
You really got to cut it off at the source, I
think.
So you have to stop it at thesource, and our vision is to not
only help people cut it off atthe source and reduce their
emissions, but also reduce theirintake.
So we want to removemicroplastics not only leaving
your home, but also coming intoyour home.
So we're working on differentapplications of our vortex
technology to actually, you know, filter out home, whole home
(16:18):
water filtration or tap waterfiltration, so that your tap
water will be microplastic freetoo.
So that's that's our vision,that's what we're trying to
build, and you know, all theearly support and getting the
word out helps as we continue tobuild to that.
Diane Bickett (16:33):
Yeah, capturing at the source makes so much more
sense than trying to clean upan ocean.
I mean some of thosetechnologies.
I think they play well onsocial media.
Buy a plastic bracelet madefrom recycled plastic.
Max Pennington (16:46):
That came out of the ocean.
I think I'm wearing one, okay.
Diane Bickett (16:51):
But I think to really have an impact you got to
do what you're doing, which iscapturing it at the front end.
What kind of other applicationsdo you foresee growing into,
like treatments for wastewatertreatment plants or outflows,
you know, combined seweroverflows and that kind of stuff
(17:11):
?
Max Pennington (17:13):
We're interested in.
I think part of the problem too, like I've often been asked the
question well, why don't youjust make the vortex really big
and make it so that everybodydoesn't have to have a filter
and just there's one big filterat the wastewater treatment
plant and the problem is like assoon as it leaves the washing
machine it gets diluted by allthe other water that's leaving
your home and everybody else'shome.
(17:35):
So it's like it's combined withthe shower water and the sink
water and the toilet water.
So then the microplastics thatwere in 50 liters of water that
you could have gotten are now in300 liters of water.
So it's like already a harderjob to be done.
And then it all gets combinedwith everybody else's water.
So you're talking about likemillions of gallons of water
(18:00):
that you have to try to deal um.
So I mean, I think it wouldwork at that scale.
I just I think the problem iscan you actually have the impact
and can you filter down to thesame level that you could on the
washing machine itself?
Diane Bickett (18:09):
yeah, one step at a time, very american.
Greg Rotuno (18:12):
American solution to the problem, just make it
bigger.
Diane Bickett (18:16):
Yeah, exactly, let someone else deal with it.
So you're from Cincinnati, yeah, yeah, and you mentioned to me
on the way in here that theSears ThinkBox kind of drove
your decision to come here.
Max Pennington (18:35):
It did yeah.
Diane Bickett (18:36):
Tell us more about this facility and how it's
helping you launch your productas a young entrepreneur.
Max Pennington (18:42):
Sure.
So the Sears ThinkBox has beencritical, I think, throughout
our whole development.
It's a seven-story openmakerspace.
It's the largest openmakerspace in the United States.
It has really everything thatyou would has a woodworking shop
, metalworking shop, hasconference room space and it has
an incubator floor on theseventh floor, which is where
(19:17):
our office is based out of.
And it's this idea that you canhave everything you need to
start a company in one building,including all of the equipment
and the resources, and it's allfree and open to use.
You really just have to pay foryour materials and if you don't
want to do that, you can bringyour own materials.
So it was the perfect launchingpad for what we were trying to
build with Cleaner, and I thinkit's made my love for Cleveland
(19:37):
grow.
It's made my love for CaseWestern Reserve University grow
and it's part of the big reasonthat I think Cleveland can be
the ground zero in the fightagainst microplastics pollution,
and I think the whole Cleanerteam believes that too.
Diane Bickett (19:49):
That's exciting.
I like the vision.
Are you making these here?
Max Pennington (19:54):
We are not making them here.
Okay yeah, so we've prototypedand designed.
Diane Bickett (19:57):
Not a manufacturing facility at scale.
Max Pennington (20:00):
Yeah, so it's great for prototyping and design
, but for mass production notquite.
So yeah, it helps you get.
I didn't think so.
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (20:10):
And you're from Cincinnati.
Max Pennington (20:11):
Yes, yeah, from Madeira.
And then I was trying to decidewhere to go to school and saw
the think box and saw what Ithought was a ton of opportunity
to come up here and decided toinvest in myself and came up to
Case instead of some otherschools that I could have gone
to like basically for free, backin Cincinnati, and came up to
Case instead of some otherschools that I could have gone
to like basically for free backin Cincinnati and haven't looked
(20:35):
back.
Greg Rotuno (20:39):
Well, there's so much innovation going on here in
Cleveland and love that we gotsome big minds moving, you know,
willing to move here and workon these issues.
Diane Bickett (20:45):
There's so much innovation that can happen
around water.
That's already happeningthrough the Cleveland Water
Alliance, who came on ourpodcast, and other work being
done in the region.
What role so entrepreneurs playa role?
What role does government andlegislation play in requiring
(21:07):
this sort of technology?
Max Pennington (21:09):
I think they're going to play a key role.
I think, really, the more thatwe learn about the health
consequences of microplastics,as it becomes more concrete, as
more people become aware of thefact that we have a spoonful of
microplastics in our brain, thatmicroplastics are in our blood,
microplastics are in theplacenta of newborn babies, I
think people are going to demanda change and I think that
(21:31):
legislators are going to be thekey decision maker in terms of
driving that change so that thewashing machine makers actually
have to listen and put it in allof the washing machines,
because that's how it reallygets the scale.
I think, to start, hopefully, wecan get it on the inside of a
premium washing machine and havesome level of if you pay a
little bit more so that thewashing machine manufacturer's
(21:53):
margins stay intact that you canactually get a model with an
early microplastics filter.
But to get it at scale whereeverybody has an integrated
microplastic system, it's reallygoing to fall on the
legislators to demand thatthat's part of what is in the
washing machine making industry.
Yes, there's five US statesthat have introduced legislation
that would require microplasticfilters for washing machines.
Diane Bickett (22:15):
Really, what are those?
Max Pennington (22:16):
California, oregon, illinois, new Jersey and
Pennsylvania, and they're all alittle bit different, but the
one that's the most differentNew Jersey has actually
introduced a rebate program,which we think is particularly
interesting for the US consumer,where basically, if you go buy
a washing machine or a washingmachine filter, you would get a
(22:37):
federal rebate for doing so thewashing machine if it has a
microplastics filter, which nonedo yet.
But we think that's a reallynice win-win-win where the
government is helping tosubsidize consumers that want to
take the early step to actuallyhave microplastic filtration
technology on washing machines.
So we really like that model interms of getting some early
(23:00):
adopters.
There's also EU-basedlegislation where France passed,
actually, a bill that wouldrequire microplastic filters in
all newly produced washingmachines by 2025.
It is 2025.
So that hasn't happened yet.
It got a little fuzzy becausethey went out ahead of the rest
of the European Union and therest of the European Union said
(23:21):
hey, we can't have Frenchconsumers driving across the
border into Germany to buy awashing machine without a
microplastics filter for cheaper, so you're going to have to
hold off on that law and waituntil we do it at an EU wide
level.
Diane Bickett (23:34):
Wow, you really are poised to do this thing,
except for, maybe, ohio.
What's going on with Ohio?
Max Pennington (23:41):
I know I'm trying, Got to get them going
with us.
Diane Bickett (23:45):
I'll introduce you to Tristan Rader.
He's a new state legislator andhe's an environmentalist.
Max Pennington (23:51):
Yeah, please.
Diane Bickett (23:52):
He would be interested, I'll send him a link
to this episode.
Max Pennington (23:56):
Perfect.
Diane Bickett (23:56):
He's been on the show before when he was with
United, thank you.
Thank you, greg.
What other innovations wouldyou like to see to reduce
microplastic pollution?
Max Pennington (24:12):
I think one of the big ones that I'm always
asked about is what are we goingto do to protect ourselves Like
, how are we going to make surethat microplastics aren't coming
into my body or coming inthrough my tap water?
And I think that's where I'mreally excited about working to
take the Vortex and applying itso that it filters out water
coming into your home as well,because I think that's really it
(24:35):
will help raise awareness.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat feel really scared about
the level of microplastics thatare coming into their home, and
to use the technology and workto make that a reality.
Just, we've been asked so manytimes when that's going to come,
so we're really excited tostart working on that.
Diane Bickett (24:51):
Okay, exciting.
So I think I never finished mythought when I asked you where
you're actually making these.
Oh, do we skip over that Maybe?
Where are you making them?
Max Pennington (25:03):
Yeah, so we produce them in Asia today, so
they're produced in China andthen shipped over into the US.
Diane Bickett (25:09):
Okay, Do you have a goal of onshoring production?
I'm sure you do.
Max Pennington (25:14):
Yes, the external filter.
For us, like I was saying, it'sreally the stepping stone into
the marketplace.
So it was more important aboutspeed to market.
I think, once we get to theintegrated forms of the
technology, if the manufacturingis still in our hands which
we're still trying to decidewhether or not that's something
that we want, if we want to be amanufacturer as a company,
(25:35):
there's some advantages to it,there's some disadvantages to it
.
Part of us, we want to licensethe technology and give it to
the washing machine makers sothat they can produce it in
their facilities that they havetoday.
And some of the washing machinemakers had said hey, you
already produced the Vortex, whydon't you keep producing the
Vortex?
So it's going to be a balancebetween what do we want to do
(25:56):
and what do the washing machinemakers want.
But at the time that it wouldbe integrated into the washing
machine and we scale upproduction, we would want to
have it scaled up in the countrythat it's being sold in we
would want to have it scaled upin the country that it's being
sold in.
Diane Bickett (26:10):
So, and your business model is still TBD, I
guess get these out thereLooking for investors.
Max Pennington (26:18):
So we, actually we just like finished up our
latest investment round, whichwe're super excited about.
That was sort of the, I guess,in between our Series C and
Series A round.
So then we're going to raiseour next investment round sort
of in the next like 12 to 18months.
Diane Bickett (26:37):
Good luck.
How much are you trying toraise?
Max Pennington (26:40):
We're still trying to decide how much we're
going to raise at the Series A.
It depends on, like, how manyadjacencies we're trying to go
after.
So if we're going after wholehome water filtration and we're
going after hospital laundry,then we might need more capital
than if we're get picked up byone of the big washing machine
makers and they want to sell 10000 of our external units.
(27:00):
So we're trying to wait and seeto.
You know kind of look at ourcards and then figure out how
much we want to raise at thatpoint.
Diane Bickett (27:07):
Do you have a patent pending on the filter
itself?
Max Pennington (27:11):
then yeah, we actually.
So last week we got the patentfor the Vortex.
Diane Bickett (27:16):
Oh, congratulations, thank you.
That costs a lot of money justto get that far right.
Max Pennington (27:20):
Yes, yeah, a lot of money and a lot of time, but
we got this golden sheet fromthe uspto that was, you know,
signed and everything.
So it was a cool moment for ourteam to look at it and we got
the technology for washingmachines and then use cases
beyond washing machines, so itwasn't specific to washing
(27:40):
machines okay, that's smart um,which was really great because
we to a year ago won theamerican filtration, filtration
and Separation Society's NewProduct of the Year for the
Vortex.
So we've had a number ofincoming requests from companies
just in the filtration spaceasking if they can use the
Vortex for their specificfiltration challenges, and some
(28:02):
of those have actually, most ofthem have nothing to do with
washing machines, so it wasreally great to get that broad
of coverage.
Diane Bickett (28:09):
Well, you probably haven't even considered
all the various applicationsthat apply to learning.
How do you sell the this to theneed for this to consumers?
I know you know the folkslistening to this podcast
probably totally get it.
But the general public.
How do you sell that idea?
(28:31):
What's your marketing strategythere?
Max Pennington (28:33):
I think part of it is seeing is believing.
So we actually have a lot ofmicroscopic images of what we're
capturing coming out of thewashing machine and we plan to
show those.
So we've been doing a lot oflike social media marketing.
We've started some influencercampaigns where you can actually
go like see influencers withour filter installed in their
house and then they were takingtheir pods and taking microscope
(28:57):
images of them and reallytrying to grow and raise
awareness at a broader levelthat washing machines are the
number one source ofmicroplastics pollution, because
I think now people understandwhat microplastics are and that
they're scary and we probablydon't want them in our bodies.
I think there is a big gap stillthat clothing is the largest
(29:19):
source of microplastic pollutionand that there's something that
you can actually do about that,where you can filter them out,
and that you can actually seethe impact that you're making.
And I think another part is theapp.
We really hope it helps spreadword of mouth.
So one of the things we'regoing to do is have a shareable
feature where you can show howmany credit cards you've removed
(29:39):
while you're using your filter,and we're also starting to
think with the Nest thermostatyou can like see where the other
like Nest users are around you.
So it could be kind of fun tobe like, hey, there's this many
cleaners in your neighborhood.
So we're like looking atdifferent features to help build
like a cleaner community aroundthe early adopters that are
(29:59):
willing to really step up andhelp us show that there's demand
for a product like this, andthat kind of demand is what's
key for us getting it on theinside of a washing machine.
So we're trying to make sureeverybody feels like a community
and knows how grateful we arefor the early support and on the
mission to really try to cutoff microplastics pollution.
I mean, I like to say it a lotbut I really do think that
(30:22):
Cleveland can be the ground zeroin the fight against
microplastic pollution and we'reproud to be building this in
Cleveland and just excited tokeep going and bring it to
market and start going afterother sources of microplastic
pollution and the way thatthey're coming into and out of
your homes.
Diane Bickett (30:39):
Well, max, thank you so much for doing this work
here, for coming up with thisproduct and excited to see where
this grows.
Max Pennington (30:48):
Thank you, it's very good Thanks for having me.
Diane Bickett (30:50):
I wish you well.
Yeah, thank you.
Greg Rotuno (30:52):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
month.
Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
become part of the conversation.
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(31:13):
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