February 20, 2025 • 44 mins
Aidan Meany is a young clothing entrepreneur defining a new era of apparel. His team at Found Surface uses 21st-century technology and traditional, natural fibers to produce eco-friendly clothing for companies looking for ethically and thoughtfully produced garments. His new factory in Cleveland's Slavic Village neighborhood is one of the first in the nation to use digital knitting machines to make clothing that is plastic-free, waste-free, and guilt-free. Aidan found his place in the design industry after educating himself about the fast fashion industry and the toll of overseas production on our fellow human beings and the environment. His mission is to bring production back to Cleveland and rebuild our long-lost apparel manufacturing industry in a way that prioritizes sustainable and regional production and sets the standard for ethical fashion. Join us to hear the origins of his company's name, his innovations, and how he works with his partners in the Rust Belt Fibershed to enable local farmers to process their fiber and take it to market. We also decipher our clothing labels to help make informed choices about our apparel.
Our Guest:
Aidan Meany, CEO and Founder of Found Surface
Learn More:
Found Surface - Products, Services
About the Stoll Digital Knitting Machines
Weaving a Local and Sustainable Textile Economy - Eco Speaks CLE
Creating a Bioregional Textile Economy with Rust Belt Fibershed - Eco Speaks CLE
Designing a Circular fashion Brand with Faan - Eco Speaks CLE
Follow us:
https://www.facebook.com/ecospeakscle
https://www.instagram.com/ecospeakscle
Contact us:
hello@ecospeakscle.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Diane Bickett (00:04):
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends, Today we'regoing to revisit the topic of
(00:25):
slow fashion.
We've covered this before in ourinterviews with Erin Jacobson
of FAN, Jess Boeke of Rust BeltFibershed, and during our
EcoMeat event that we had abouta year ago now.
Since those interviews a yearor more ago, there's been
progress made by local textileenthusiasts developing a farm to
garment clothing industry inthe Rust Belt Fib Shed, which is
(00:47):
an area within a 250 mileradius of Cleveland.
This innovation in clothingproduction is a culmination of a
dream of our guest today, AidenMeany, who is the founder of
Found Surface, a clothing brandand manufacturer in Cleveland's
Slavic Village.
Aiden's mission is to rebuildCleveland's apparel and
(01:10):
manufacturing industry in a waythat prioritizes sustainable and
regional production and sets astandard for ethical fashion.
Greg and I are here at hisfactory here in Slavic Village,
where he has installed a coupleof Stoll digital knitting
machines, which he'll explain.
He'll explain what that means,why that's important and his
(01:32):
progress towards making it areality.
We'll also ask Aiden todecipher some of my clothing
labels to help us make informedchoices about our apparel.
Aidan Meany (01:43):
Welcome Aiden.
Thank you for for having me.
Thanks for coming out to SlavicVillage yeah, so trivia
question.
Diane Bickett (01:48):
I know you're a wool lover yep do you know where
the first merino sheep werefirst brought to the US or when
the first merino sheep werebrought to the US?
I'm getting, I'm having, arough start today.
I'm'm just saying we're justcoming back from a trip, but I'm
still in my car.
Aidan Meany (02:05):
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I know we were makinghigh-quality wool goods in the
1800s.
My guess would be in themid-1800s.
Diane Bickett (02:18):
Okay.
So I learned that Greg and Iwere with the family up in Stowe
, vermont, and on the way backmy husband and I stopped at the
Vermont Flannel Company.
Aidan Meany (02:27):
Very cool, I have their pajamas.
Diane Bickett (02:30):
I'm wearing a shacket that I bought, which
Greg?
Greg Rotuno (02:34):
I know you'll be jealous of I am jealous, I
wanted to go there.
Diane Bickett (02:37):
So the gentleman at the store told me that the
first Merino sheep were broughtto Vermont from Portugal in the
early 1800s by colonel davidhumphries and he was an
ambassador, I don't know, tospain or something, and that the
wool was eventually made intouniforms for the union soldiers.
(03:00):
Super interesting.
So, um aiden in your mission tokind of rebuild cleveland or
bring back cleveland's garmentindustry um, in the 21st century
, you have a lot of strongheadwinds to navigate.
You know just from the sourcingof fibers and figuring how to
(03:21):
um manage labor costs and thingslike that.
But your reasons are compelling.
I read that the textileindustry is the second most
polluting industry after thefossil fuel industry.
Aidan Meany (03:32):
It is.
Diane Bickett (03:33):
And that 60% of our clothes are derived from
fossil fuels and 95% of ourclothing is made overseas.
Aidan Meany (03:41):
Yeah so go you.
Diane Bickett (03:44):
I'm trying to tackle this.
What was the spark that led youon this path?
Aidan Meany (03:51):
Yeah, my light bulb moment for starting the company
was while I was at a university.
I was at Syracuse Universitywhen the pandemic hit.
So I saw the supply chaincrisis, like we all saw, for
virtually every product.
Some people were worried abouttoilet paper, some people were
(04:14):
worried about various things,and I couldn't help but connect
this real disconnect betweenproduct and the process behind
it to the career and workforcethat I was preparing to enter
after I graduated, which wasthis you know huge fashion
(04:35):
industry that had things beingmade thousands of miles away
from where they were designed orwhere the the you know sales
strategy was made or whatever.
So I was, I had this moral kindof issue while I was you know
had time to think.
Yeah, on you know virtualcollege where they said imagine
(04:57):
making things while you'relooking at your computer.
And I just had a lot of freetime to kind of sit and think
like what am I actually going todo when I graduate?
And it got me thinking like Ineed to really focus on
reinventing the process orresearching how that could get
reinvented.
And one thing led to another,and now we're you know, we're in
our factory here.
Diane Bickett (05:17):
So you came back to Cleveland.
Aidan Meany (05:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Diane Bickett (05:21):
And how long ago was that?
Aidan Meany (05:23):
That was 2021.
Okay, yeah, and how long agowas that?
That was 2021.
Okay, so I, through the supportof the school and the program I
was in, they let me stay inschool and go visit a lot of the
partners that I had Firstresearch, that were real, you
know, shining lights in our, youknow, throughout our country,
(05:43):
that were either farming cottonor, you know, milling that into
a usable textile, or these smallcut and sew teams.
And they let me go travel andvisit these folks that were kind
of operating in their ownparallel universes and not
really talking to each other toomuch.
They were making their productor service and then generally
sending it overseas for the restto happen their product or
(06:04):
service and then generallysending it overseas for for the
rest to happen.
And that's where, that's whereI learned a lot about how to
string this together, how to putit under one roof, what
vertical integration in the uscan look like and why it hasn't
really happened yet.
Diane Bickett (06:16):
So well, even the supply chain here in the us is
really spread out.
So we'll get to the garmentsthat you're making for the
calves and how you're sourcingthe cotton and and and all that.
But, um, tell us about yourcompany and the name found
surface.
Curious about the name yes, thename.
Aidan Meany (06:37):
The name goes back to uh, a project I had in high
school.
Uh, in a in a art class in highschool.
Yes, yes, um.
So we were.
We were tasked with a um, uh, afound object, uh, sculpture
assignment, that was.
That was called found surfaceUm and that was to source.
(06:58):
You know, don't, don't go buyanything, go find the materials
for this sculpture.
That had to tell a story about afamily member and I remember
hearing that phrase and Iactually wrote it down on a
piece of paper and I put it inmy wallet and I didn't know why
or what it meant to me in adeeper way, but I knew that I
(07:19):
was going to use it forsomething in some way and
actually at the time I wasmaking clothes and I was hand-se
some way.
And actually at the time I wasmaking clothes and, um, I was, I
was like hand sewing clothesand I thought it was like, maybe
this is a brand someday thatI'll make or whatever.
And, um, while I was in collegeand I had that supply chain, uh
, light bulb moment, I realizedI'm like, well, this company I'm
(07:40):
thinking about starting isusing what's around me and it's
sourcing these things that areright around me.
And, um, that's when I knew,like, I pulled that piece of
paper.
I was a little yellowed andgross after all the years, but I
knew it was the thing.
Diane Bickett (07:55):
Brilliant when that all comes together, like
that that's cool.
So tell us about your factoryhere in Slavic village.
Aidan Meany (08:04):
Yeah, um, so we are a full-time team of 12, just
under 30 all in with ourcontractors and part-time team.
So that ranges from our salesteam here, our marketing team
here.
We are a knitting mill andwe're a cut and sew facility.
(08:24):
So we've got sewers, we've gotknitting programmers, we've got
machine operators, we've gotaccount managers, we've got
marketers, and it's prettyremarkable that you see all of
them in one space.
So I was actually just talking.
Earlier today I had aconversation about our workflow
(08:47):
and how unique it is that whenour team is working with a
client and trying to meet theneeds that they're expressing
concern over or what they'retrying to solve in the apparel
industry, that's how I reallylook at us is we're the folks
you go to when you're trying tomake something that's never been
made before or you've gotreally strict material or
(09:10):
sustainability goals or whateverit may be.
There's really very littleprojects that we say no to.
Sales can come back toproduction and have this really
tight feedback loop of hey,we're hearing about this need,
how specifically can we actuallymanufacture this or make a
(09:33):
sample of this or pattern, makethis and go back and forth that
way, like I can't think of manycompanies or production
facilities where the sales teameven knows the production team
right, like they're just likeselling stuff that they're told
to sell.
So there's a really interestingthis is a really interesting um
communication structure we havehere, um, where we're literally
(09:56):
making you know, we can watchthe, the goods that we make for
clients uh, come out and theninvite them to come watch with
us, and you know it's prettyspecial.
Diane Bickett (10:09):
Wow, how did they find you?
Aidan Meany (10:12):
So I mean being in Cleveland we like to.
We've been busy taking care offolks that are nearby, like the
Cavs, and we make a lot of goodsfor the Cleveland Museum of Art
right now.
So otherwise, we have anincredible sales team that is
(10:33):
just letting people know thatwe're here.
So we do a lot of calling andemailing and letting people just
know we're here.
But word of mouth for this kindof business, word of mouth is
really strong.
We deliver high-quality product.
Business word of mouth isreally strong.
Right, like we deliver highquality product.
Somebody either buys thatproduct or is asking that you
know, customer of ours who, hey,who made this?
Like I've got a business I wantto.
Word of mouth is really strong.
(10:53):
And then, in that way for thiskind of thing, um, but we do a
lot, you know.
We're busy on social media,we're busy on linkedin and it.
Every time we make somethingnew for a client there's there's
a lot of good feedback and weget some calls and, oh, I want
to make this too, or I have anidea, or you know so.
Diane Bickett (11:12):
so, um, what are some of the guiding principles
of the things that you're making?
Is it from the fiber to themanufacturing process?
And I want to hear more aboutthe Stoll S-T-O-L-L knitting
machine which, when we first met18 months ago, it was your
(11:33):
dream to get one of these, whichis a machine that literally you
can, through a computer program, make a garment or a hat or
whatever.
So you're not operating today.
I wanted to kind of record thesound of it.
Yeah, we'll get you tomorrow.
Tomorrow 9 am, it'll be tooloud to do this.
(11:55):
Oh yeah, okay, Okay, well, verygood.
Aidan Meany (11:58):
But, yeah, we I mean.
So, you know, the foundation ofwhat success is for us really
lies in how do we make producingapparel in the United States
better, faster, cheaper than ouroverseas competitors?
If you were to distill thewhole thing down to one problem,
(12:24):
that's what we're after.
So, through this blend oftraditional cut and sew, which
is your normal person at asewing machine, and hand cutting
out yardage, coupled with thisreally incredible new tech,
which is digital flatbedknitting, or call it digital
(12:45):
whole garment knitting um,seamless knitting like these are
some of the the words peopleused to describe the process.
Um, we're able to combine thetwo of them.
Uh, which is pretty new.
This is a relatively new,especially in the us.
There's nobody, really there'snobody doing this in the state.
(13:05):
So what that looks like iseither seamlessly knitting down
product so good example that wedo are um, beanies.
We've gotten really good atdoing seamless beanies.
Um, we can do, you know, abeanie every six minutes and no
one's got to touch it.
Um, which is, you know,incredibly fast and cost
(13:27):
effective.
And we're not using any yarn.
There's no waste yarn, right,there's like all these
incredible benchmarks that younail when you're doing seamless
knitting.
Um, then there's morecomplicated stuff that you can't
necessarily knit the finishedproduct down without any sort of
hand intervention, but you canknit down the components of it.
(13:48):
So you can knit, you know,sleeves and bodies and necklines
and all these differentcomponents to a garment and then
have that be assembled by hand.
That you still hit awesomebenchmarks.
No, no sorts of material waste.
You know, you're not handcutting these things, um, and
(14:09):
the pattern pieces are justready to sew so you can
streamline that production a lot.
Um, those, those two ways, uh,kind of looking at new age, old
age, um, as like one wholesystem is, is how we're really
tackling that problem.
Greg Rotuno (14:26):
Go ahead, greg.
Do all, or most of the peoplethat come to you like.
Is that why?
Or is it just because they wantto work with somebody in the US
?
Are they all local right now?
I guess, like talk to me aboutwho your customers are.
Aidan Meany (14:41):
Yeah, so we're definitely nerds and experts and
more so than buyers, for brandsmight be about the actual
process, and a lot of that'sbecause over the last 50 years
we've just kicked our processthousands of miles away.
So I don't blame a lot of thebrands and buyers who really
don't understand down to thefiber level how things work,
(15:04):
because why would they wastetheir time learning that they
don't need to like, it's allhappening somewhere else.
So what's cool is we get to notonly educate people on that but
, um, the conversations thatmove the needle for folks lie in
.
You know, you can come watchyour stuff get made.
We will have an incredible, youknow, series of of ongoing
(15:26):
conversations about your productin the development stage.
You can come in here, you canmeet with our team, you can go
through product development in acollaborative, in-person often
way, whereas if you're makingstuff overseas, you're shipping
a tech pack and kind of hopingfor the best.
You're shipping a tech pack andkind of hoping for the best and
then, whenever it might getcleared through customs, you can
(15:48):
see if they nailed it or mostoften not and then to go do that
whole thing again and waitanother three, six months.
So it's.
It's, you know, mostly we.
We see that as what peoplereally care most about is that
you've got a team of people thatcare about your brand, that
will, like I said, very rarelysay no to a project, that also
(16:10):
have these harsh guidelines ofwhat kinds of materials we use,
which I'm happy to elaborate on.
How do we take that materiallimitation and still achieve a
look or a feel or a color that abrand needs to have for their
(16:32):
particular customer?
So when you limit yourself onusing organic cotton or wool
that's from the US, that justlimits the product lines that
you can start to make orreplicate.
And what our team is reallygreat at doing is perfecting
finishes and dyeing andconstruction methods that get
(16:54):
you the same sort of output thatyou would get overseas, but
you're doing it in aridiculously more equitable and
planet-friendly way.
We're really substituting inthese sustainable versions of
product that people are veryused to.
I think beanies are anothergreat example of how to do that.
(17:18):
Most of those are acrylic fromoverseas.
We're using something that canbiodegrade in time and there's
virtually no you know costchange to that brand.
Greg Rotuno (17:30):
So are you able to stay like competitive pricing
wise with overseas manufacturingat all?
Aidan Meany (17:35):
It's product by product.
So like right now our core lineof call it like private label
product, which consists ofthings like t-shirts and hoodies
and beanies, and these are liketemplates that brands can take
and then go customize and, youknow, put their logos on and
print and embroider and do allthese different things that they
(17:58):
, they would do.
Um, those products were gettingreally really like close.
Um, there's some where we'reeven better, um, like, and again
to mention beanies for thehundredth time, that's like,
that's like one of the top onesthat we're really we're really
seeing, seeing a lot of goodprogress in and really all all
the way we get there is our team, mostly our team are like
(18:23):
computer hackers of thisknitting equipment and the more
that we have time to experimentand try things, the better we
can find ways to tell themachines how to operate.
So, because it's a digitalthing, because it starts in a
computer program, the sky's kindof the limit with how our team
(18:43):
can coordinate and create theseinstructions for the machine how
to work.
So, week after week we'relearning like, oh, we can bring
down the knit time on thisproduct by rearranging the
structure in the program thisway.
So there's kind of anever-ending effort here to
bring the cost of those productsdown.
Diane Bickett (19:04):
When did the machine first arrive and how
long have you been learning howto use it?
Aidan Meany (19:12):
Yeah, so our NIT director and myself went down to
the Carolinas, to Stull'sheadquarters, in May to go get
formally trained on the exactequipment that we were first
receiving.
The equipment came thatfollowing month, in June, and
that was our first machine.
(19:33):
We got our second machine inOctober and I mean, yeah, huge,
huge learning curve, like rightnow, other than a couple of
educational institutions, youknow you're looking at very
little, very few companies thathave access to this equipment.
I mean, you know don't quote meon this but arguably single
(19:57):
digit, you know, number ofcompanies in the States that
have access to this andcertainly nobody using it in the
way that we're using it.
Diane Bickett (20:07):
That's really exciting.
So the machinery itself, 21stcentury technology, allows you
to be, to Greg's point, you know, a little more competitive with
overseas production.
You don't have an ocean betweenyou in terms of transportation
and all the layers of of companythat that requires.
So, right, you know I I mean itcan be done, right absolutely,
(20:32):
you can be competitive.
Color me jazzed do you thinkpeople are catching on to the
impacts of the fast fashionindustry in general, or is it
just slow to break through thatbuying habits are destroying our
planet?
Aidan Meany (20:53):
Yeah, I like to think.
I think the way I like to lookat this issue is that I don't
think our habits are goinganywhere, so I don't think the
foundation of People are stillgoing to want to buy clothes,
right, right, people aren'tgoing to want to go out in the
same thing they did last night.
They aren't going to want towear the same thing on their
(21:14):
Instagram feed, every post.
It's ingrained in our culture,right?
Those things aren't changing,so now we need to look at it
less.
In my mind, we look from aagain a material standpoint.
Okay, if we are going to buy alot of stuff, then let's make
sure that it's made out ofsomething that isn't bad, right,
and?
And that there's not a lot ofwaste generated in making a lot
(21:36):
of stuff.
So, like we, we compost all ofour physical waste at our
factory here.
Diane Bickett (21:42):
Because you're only using natural materials,
right yeah, and so it's.
Aidan Meany (21:46):
You know it breaks down in your food and you know
we work with rust bought ridersand, uh, our bins are full over
there, I swear they come up inevery podcast they I mean
they're saving.
They're the.
They're the most organizedcomposting group I've.
Greg Rotuno (21:59):
You know that cleveland needs um and beyond is
I want to follow up on that goahead because I feel like the
biggest issue and hurdle withpeople is always the cost, like
I have no problem personallypaying double for something I
know was made in the usa or likemade locally or with
sustainable materials, but likeI feel like you always still
(22:23):
hear like oh, 90 for a t-shirt.
It's insane, and how do we showpeople that it's not?
Aidan Meany (22:30):
yeah, I, I, I mean.
I have a couple thoughts, firstbeing we'll we will get to a
place in the united states whereit doesn't look that way and
that there doesn't need to bethis sort of like, a like you
don't have to be an advocate tobuy you know a made in usa thing
.
That's like.
My goal is that we can go backto the the 80s and 90s, when you
(22:52):
looked at your tag and it justsaid made in usa and you didn't
have to feel like you weresaving the world for it.
It just like was the way it was.
Um and my.
My other thought is, if wedon't invest in the capacity to
make stuff here, then if therewas ever a situation where we
couldn't rely on another youknow, global partner to make our
(23:15):
stuff, your t-shirt would be athousand dollars, like it
wouldn't be $90.
So it's worth working in thisdirection, because the
alternative, if we can'tmanufacture overseas, is that
things are way more expensivethan we think they are now.
Greg Rotuno (23:32):
Politically speaking, I think you got in at
a very good time too.
I mean, there's a level ofisolationism growing in the US
and isolating against tradepartners, so yeah, yeah, I think
the world's a big place and weshould use it.
Aidan Meany (23:50):
It's definitely not a bad thing, but you can't.
It's like people that ask howthe dark ages happened.
It's like how did you forgethow to do all this stuff?
And it's in the middle of it.
Well, if you shipped the wholeprocess super far away, there's
a lot of people here that are intheir 80s, that used to work in
knitting mills and their kidsor grandkids have no clue how to
(24:11):
make clothes right like that'show it happens and if we
factored in the the life cyclecost of the garments we wear,
they would.
Diane Bickett (24:19):
You wouldn't get a t-shirt for 1010.
You might get a t-shirt if youfactor in the impacts on our
planet, or if the person whomade it made a living wage and
the labor and all that, and thisis where the equipment comes in
huge right.
Aidan Meany (24:34):
Yeah, if we can replace.
Diane Bickett (24:35):
I mean if we could stop the exploitation of
cheap labor overseas using thesestole knitting machines.
I think that's a good thing.
Aidan Meany (24:45):
Absolutely.
It's a much higher paying jobto be a programmer and operator
of this equipment.
Diane Bickett (24:50):
Oh, that's a great point.
Aidan Meany (24:52):
And we are closely partnered with Kent State, who's
educating on how to be aknitting programmer and operator
of this equipment just 30minutes away from us.
So it's a really good ecosystemhere in Ohio to be the catalyst
on that.
We get the best interns fromthem.
80% of our team is a Kent grad,probably higher than that.
Diane Bickett (25:16):
Honestly, now that we've just hired a few more
people.
Thanks for employing these kidscoming out of the college.
Aidan Meany (25:20):
Yeah, I mean, it is the future, and a lot of it can
happen through automation.
Like a lot of, I think, this iswhere the US can be a leader in
time, and what we're seeing isreally understanding how to
implement technology in a way toproduce the right amount for
folks.
You know, brands don't want tohave overhead either.
The issue is overproduction,and the issue is all this stock
(25:47):
that's getting burned or washedup in Africa and all this
clothing waste that's made outof plastic is creating an island
somewhere.
Brands don't want this either,because they want their product
to sell.
So a lot of the issues lie inlike.
We all want the same outcome.
This is where factories can getreal.
Like you know, I like callingus a like, a like.
(26:09):
A smart factory is that we canunderstand how we deliver what
brands want and what consumerswant and what the planet wants,
and do that in one.
You know, one operation in oneconversation.
Diane Bickett (26:20):
So I love.
I love how you see the wholesystem.
As part of this, can you let'stalk a little bit about fibers?
Yeah, I just pulled a coupletags off some of my garments
that talked about the fabrics,because there's natural fabrics,
there's synthetic fabrics, thenthere's this gray area of these
bio based fabrics, which I'mnot even sure what that means.
(26:45):
so yeah I've got some labelshere.
Maybe we could just read themand you can maybe rank them on a
scale of one to five, which is,buy all day long if you can, or
put it back on the shelf kindof thing yeah so we'll start
with with this one which, whichis pretty, pretty common, I
think, came off a pair of jeans,so read it.
Aidan Meany (27:11):
Yeah, yeah 76% polyester, 24% spandex.
Made, made in Vietnam.
Diane Bickett (27:20):
Okay, yeah, those are probably a pair of yoga
pants or something.
Aidan Meany (27:24):
Right yeah, something stretchy, scale of one
to five.
Diane Bickett (27:28):
So that's all synthetic.
Aidan Meany (27:29):
Yeah, I mean I wouldn't yeah, ideally avoid it.
You know your skin is yourbiggest organ, so what you put
on it matters and gets absorbed,and I don't want forever
petroleum in my body, so get itaway from me as an alternative
to the synthetic yoga pants, Ibought this brand.
Diane Bickett (27:54):
I won't tell you what brand it is still made in
China.
Aidan Meany (27:56):
A different composition.
Can you decipher that one forme?
Oh, okay, um, yeah, so 78bamboo, 22 bio-based elastane.
Um, without no, so withoutknowing there's there's good and
bad ways to do bio-based stuffum, our sourcing team spends a
(28:22):
lot of time looking into these.
You know, virgin polyester, uh,alternatives, so this, I mean
my, I would still avoid this one, obviously really, oh, shoot
what, now it's.
Diane Bickett (28:37):
What am I gonna wear to the gym?
Aidan Meany (28:38):
the the.
Now this is me being a bit of astickler, just because I know
that it says made in China.
So I'm assuming that thisbamboo and the bio-based elastin
are coming from China as well.
That would be.
Why is that?
You know that this isn'torganic and you know that this
bio-based be prone togreenwashing would be my fear.
Diane Bickett (29:05):
How do you take bamboo and make it a bad
material?
Greg Rotuno (29:08):
Bamboo is not a.
You can't make a shirt out ofbamboo, so what are they doing
to it?
What is textile bamboo?
Aidan Meany (29:16):
Yeah, I mean.
So you can blend.
You can blend bamboo withcotton to soften things up and
add a little bit of stretch.
It's not a bad thing.
This tag is undoubtedly betterthan the last one.
It's way better than a 76%virgin polyester Way better.
(29:39):
But the thing to look out foris there's a lot of even cotton
being farmed horribly.
There's a lot of cotton that'sgrown with Uyghur labor in China
.
That's really horrible, right.
So you could even get a tagthat's made in China, it's 100%
cotton and you're like whoa, I'mon the right side, but it's
(29:59):
still pretty bad.
So that's where this kind ofthing I would still be like
yellow flag, you know, likethat's all you know, like that's
all you know.
For the most part, if you'renot seeing made in Portugal,
made in Portugal is pretty good.
If you're not seeing made inPortugal or made in the U S,
it's your yellow flag on labor.
Okay.
Diane Bickett (30:19):
Okay.
Aidan Meany (30:19):
So turkeys can be, turkey can be, okay, you know
there's like a few that are allright, but so many things we
have to think about.
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (30:27):
Okay, all right, but so many things we have to
think about.
Yeah, okay, so I'll just.
All these are bad 72 cotton, 23polyester, rayon and spandex.
Okay, we know that's bad.
Aidan Meany (30:36):
Here's one you'll like yeah, there we go, 100
extra fine merino wool.
Diane Bickett (30:47):
Where's it made, though Doesn't say oh Okay.
Aidan Meany (30:51):
Doesn't say We'll just assume it was made
somewhere in.
Diane Bickett (30:57):
Portugal.
Greg Rotuno (30:58):
Yeah, I mean this is great.
Diane Bickett (31:02):
Those came off the leggings.
Aidan Meany (31:03):
I got to go skiing so I was happy that I could find
wool, leggings, wool, I meanbest material best material ever
and we're, honestly, in my mind, we're in chapter one of
understanding like itsapplication.
You know, we we need more timeto experiment with how we can
use it for, for its performance,like not just as a big, chunky
sweater but as something thatbreathes and and heats you up
(31:26):
and cools you down when you needit.
Diane Bickett (31:27):
So okay, um, here's another good one.
This is not really a tag, but Ipromise I do a shout out.
Aidan Meany (31:38):
Yes organic cotton 100 flannel.
Diane Bickett (31:44):
So yeah, the guy at the vermont flannel company
said that they source theirflannel from portugal, but they
do all the cut and sewing inVermont.
And they've been doing thatsince the 1990s, so it's
supporting their local economy.
It's a traceable fabric.
Aidan Meany (31:58):
Yeah, that's about as good as you could do until
found surface came around camearound Nice.
Diane Bickett (32:07):
Talk about that sweatshirt that you made for the
Cavs and how you sort.
Aidan Meany (32:17):
you know how you source that material and how
that came to be and where peoplecan buy it and how much it
costs.
Yeah, so, um, the Cavs do acity edition jersey every year,
which means that they partnerwith a local institution to
co-create a jersey that they'regoing to wear that season,
outside of their normal home andaway jerseys, and so this year
(32:42):
they wanted to add inmerchandise that was promoting a
rigorous, planet-friendlyinitiative.
So they wanted to, and this wasled by Danielle, who is leading
a relatively new kind of officein pro sports, which is this
(33:04):
Sustainability.
Yeah, exactly, which is anawesome.
I'm so glad to see that thatindustry and that you know
category go in this directionand trust people like like
Danielle.
So, um, danielle uh approachedus to be a participant in in the
surrounding merchandise aroundthat Jersey um that they were
(33:24):
making with the Cleveland museumof art Um, and said hey, we, we
know, like you know, shine somelight on your, on your process
and the kinds of materials youuse.
Let's go make this merchandisetogether as a it was a hoodie
and a t-shirt Um, and togetherwe used our, our pretty bread
(33:45):
and butter normal uh way ofmaking things, which is a co-op
of farmers in Texas that pooltheir their cotton crop together
.
That cotton fluff is sent to aspinning mill in North North
Carolina where it's turned intoa yarn, and then that yarn was
(34:08):
sent to Pennsylvania.
It's turned into a yarn, andthen that yarn uh was sent to
Pennsylvania to get turned intoa circular knit um Jersey and
Terry uh yardage um fabric thatwe cut and sewed into hoodies
and t-shirts.
So those you know we we wereable to trace that whole process
.
We were able to folks excitedabout the fact that this was
(34:29):
getting applied into an industrythat hasn't really pioneered
apparel sustainability before.
Cool connection.
There.
It was really sweet, surprising, yeah, and we got to have
Clevelanders make a high volumeof sustainable merchandise for
(34:50):
Cleveland sports fans, which wassuper sweet.
Diane Bickett (34:52):
And who designed the logo?
Did that come out of the?
Aidan Meany (34:57):
So the Cavs team handled the design.
So the components that ourdesign team worked on were tags,
um, paper packaging, um thosesorts of things.
We really handled the materialin the construction side.
So we we made the vision cometo life, um, but there were
(35:21):
plenty of other players like themuseum and like the calves that
were kind of guiding theirtheir vision.
Diane Bickett (35:26):
Yeah, cool so people can find this on your
well in the Cavs team shop rightCavs team shop and then the
museum store.
And the museum store.
Aidan Meany (35:34):
So it's in-person only what about online.
Diane Bickett (35:38):
Can people buy that off your website?
Aidan Meany (35:41):
No, so it's their product.
Diane Bickett (35:43):
I see.
Aidan Meany (35:44):
It was a very collaborative process and we
co-released all these goods, butit was.
This is you know.
Diane Bickett (35:51):
You made it for them.
Aidan Meany (35:53):
It's a really significant step in the industry
, because the ClevelandCavaliers and the Cleveland
Museum of Art purchased the mostsustainable blanks and apparel
for their sales team, for theirretail team and their stores.
That was made byClevelandvelanders for
clevelanders.
Um, this wasn't, you know, itwasn't a charity play.
(36:14):
This wasn't, you know, aone-off thing.
This was a the first actualstep towards them purchasing
really sustainable apparel.
Diane Bickett (36:23):
Um I hope they get some recognition for that
through the Green SportsAlliance or the NBA.
Aidan Meany (36:30):
Yeah, I mean I've seen, I know Danielle's been
raising the megaphone about itand it seems like that's been.
I just know when I check inwith her and then when I see on
LinkedIn I know she's speakingat some global conferences about
the impact of that, because Imean the Cavs have a ridiculous
following and they're a hugeyeah we learned that.
(36:51):
They're a huge, they have a hugevoice.
So to lead that front is really, really sweet.
And there's, you knowabsolutely more to come on that
front, because Cavs aren'tleaving Cleveland and we're not
leaving Cleveland.
Diane Bickett (37:03):
So that's awesome .
We don't have much time left,but do you want to briefly
mention about um, the projectyou have going with, uh, the
West Virginia university?
Yeah, Um which is kind of umrounds out this whole fiber shed
conversation, bringing bringingthe uh fiber closer than right
(37:27):
texas yeah, absolutely.
Aidan Meany (37:29):
Um.
So I've.
Since I started the company,I've been privy to and really
interested in using raw materialthat is in our state or in our
region.
Um alpaca yeah, we have the mostalpaca per square foot of any
state in the whole country.
Virtually no one is using thatfor apparel.
(37:55):
I would love to fix that anduse that.
We're always finding ways totap into that.
In my mind, it's a gold minewhat we're doing with West
(38:33):
Virginia, led by an incredibleprofessor named Jordan Masters,
who has invented what we'recalling a micro mill setup,
piece of equipment that replacesthe need for a farmer.
That's got, you know, 20 to 100sheep or five sheep or whatever
, to go through the real, youknow hard, uh, high barrier to
entry, uh industrial process ofturning that fiber into a yarn
or into something that they canmake a product out of and sell.
Um, because right now they'rejust not participating in that
they can make a product out ofand sell, because right now
they're just not participatingin that, they're just not using
(38:54):
their wool.
We're burning half a millionpounds of wool in just Ohio
because they just don't knowwhat to do with it.
Diane Bickett (38:58):
Yeah, they can't sell it.
Aidan Meany (38:58):
The quick facts are if you had 10 pounds to turn
into a yarn that you wanted tomake beanies out of and sell at
the farmer's market, you're inthe hole like $500, $600, and
you lose a couple pounds on theway.
And so you're just like there'sjust no and you're waiting
(39:20):
years to do this.
There's just no reason youwould ever do it.
Diane Bickett (39:25):
Because there's no mills available to turn that
fiber into yarn.
Aidan Meany (39:29):
Exactly.
The costs are super high.
The volume, the MOQs for themare super high.
If you find someone that you'regoing to work with, there's
already been a hundred peoplethat beat you in line.
You know.
It's like really just, there'sjust like a million reasons why
a farmer would not spend asecond considering doing this.
And now the plan is to deploythese micro mills to two farmers
(39:53):
in West Virginia and Ohio, andeventually beyond, and train
them on, you know, those thatare interested, obviously train
them on how to operate thisequipment for themselves, so
that they can take, uh, the, thefiber that they would normally
just like throw in a barn orburn or, you know, throw away,
(40:15):
um, turn that into a yarnthemselves, uh, which you know
so you go from a zero valueproduct to something that you
know, maybe dollars on the pound, dollars per pound.
Oh I mean, you can sell woolyarn for 30, 40 bucks a cone.
(40:35):
A cone could be anywhere from apound to two pounds.
Diane Bickett (40:39):
That's got to help the farmers who are
scratching by.
Aidan Meany (40:44):
We buy yarn, I mean we store yarn in here, and
that's our main input.
And the real ecosystem we'reworking on with West Virginia is
to dedicate a team andequipment towards opening up the
service of product making onour end in here in Cleveland as
a part of this ecosystem.
So farmers create their ownyarn, bypassing the two-year
(41:10):
wait list, the crazy overhead ofexpenses.
They make their own yarn, theysend it to us, they tell us what
kind of product they want tomake, we will make that and just
charge them the service fee ofusing our incredibly efficient,
low-cost production methods andthen send that back to them in
whatever sort of quantity thatthey can handle or would like,
and then they can go sell thatat the farmer's market for a way
(41:32):
higher margin in higher volumesthan they ever could before.
Diane Bickett (41:37):
Yeah, I just love everything you're doing.
It's so cool, so interesting.
Aidan Meany (41:40):
Thank you, yeah, that's, that's a really exciting
project.
We're currently fundraisingthat with the school right now
and yeah, it would be reallyawesome.
And then you know, it opens thedoor for us to experiment and
create alpaca cotton blends anduse this equipment to go further
and, you know, just further,regionalize.
(42:00):
Things that can be scaled.
I mean just the issues to solveare very doable.
I mean it's very there for thetaking.
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (42:13):
Well, you've done so much in the last four years.
I can't wait to see what thiscompany looks like in 10 years.
Thank you, yeah, and you'realready growing out of your
space.
You said.
Aidan Meany (42:21):
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (42:22):
So that's, I guess, a good problem to have.
Is there anything else?
You want to leave our listenerswith good problem?
Aidan Meany (42:28):
to have.
Is there anything else you wantto leave our listeners with?
I mean, yeah, if you're, ifyou're interested in um learning
about how clothes are made,follow us um.
Found surface on found surfaceon Instagram.
We have a really awesome emaillist, um.
We have like a blog, um, andwe're always educating.
If you want to, if you'reinterested in making your own
(42:50):
clothes or getting closer tothat process, just reach out to
us and we've got a couple ofways that you can participate in
that.
Um.
And yeah, look at your tagsbefore you buy stuff Um and if
you're interested in the RustBelt Fiber Show.
Diane Bickett (43:05):
They've got a great website that has uh ways
for people to connect arounddifferent working groups and
stuff.
Aidan Meany (43:12):
Absolutely.
Diane Bickett (43:22):
That's super cool .
Fibershed episode 24 with thelocal clothing designer Aaron
Jacobson, with fan and our ecomeat panel from last year at
this time, which was episode 51.
Aidan Meany (43:36):
So there's a lot to learn around.
It's really cool to listen tothe eco meat and then this one
and just think that that was ayear yes that's crazy a long way
in a year.
Diane Bickett (43:48):
Yeah, just a year ago.
Aidan Meany (43:49):
Yeah, and that's because of demand, it's because
there's a trend here and peoplewant it.
Diane Bickett (43:55):
Well, said Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, it's been fun.
This was super fun.
Aidan Meany (44:01):
I could do another hour if you want it.
Diane Bickett (44:04):
And maybe we will Meanwhile have a good ski trip.
Aidan Meany (44:07):
Thank you, yeah, yeah, you got me extra excited.
Greg Rotuno (44:11):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
month.
Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
become part of the conversation.
If you would like to send usfeedback and suggestions, or if
(44:33):
you'd like to become a sponsorof EcoSpeak CLE, you can email
us at hello at EcoSpeakCLEcom.
Stay tuned for more importantand inspiring stories to come.
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends, Today we'regoing to revisit the topic of
(00:25):
slow fashion.
We've covered this before in ourinterviews with Erin Jacobson
of FAN, Jess Boeke of Rust BeltFibershed, and during our
EcoMeat event that we had abouta year ago now.
Since those interviews a yearor more ago, there's been
progress made by local textileenthusiasts developing a farm to
garment clothing industry inthe Rust Belt Fib Shed, which is
(00:47):
an area within a 250 mileradius of Cleveland.
This innovation in clothingproduction is a culmination of a
dream of our guest today, AidenMeany, who is the founder of
Found Surface, a clothing brandand manufacturer in Cleveland's
Slavic Village.
Aiden's mission is to rebuildCleveland's apparel and
(01:10):
manufacturing industry in a waythat prioritizes sustainable and
regional production and sets astandard for ethical fashion.
Greg and I are here at hisfactory here in Slavic Village,
where he has installed a coupleof Stoll digital knitting
machines, which he'll explain.
He'll explain what that means,why that's important and his
(01:32):
progress towards making it areality.
We'll also ask Aiden todecipher some of my clothing
labels to help us make informedchoices about our apparel.
Aidan Meany (01:43):
Welcome Aiden.
Thank you for for having me.
Thanks for coming out to SlavicVillage yeah, so trivia
question.
Diane Bickett (01:48):
I know you're a wool lover yep do you know where
the first merino sheep werefirst brought to the US or when
the first merino sheep werebrought to the US?
I'm getting, I'm having, arough start today.
I'm'm just saying we're justcoming back from a trip, but I'm
still in my car.
Aidan Meany (02:05):
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I know we were makinghigh-quality wool goods in the
1800s.
My guess would be in themid-1800s.
Diane Bickett (02:18):
Okay.
So I learned that Greg and Iwere with the family up in Stowe
, vermont, and on the way backmy husband and I stopped at the
Vermont Flannel Company.
Aidan Meany (02:27):
Very cool, I have their pajamas.
Diane Bickett (02:30):
I'm wearing a shacket that I bought, which
Greg?
Greg Rotuno (02:34):
I know you'll be jealous of I am jealous, I
wanted to go there.
Diane Bickett (02:37):
So the gentleman at the store told me that the
first Merino sheep were broughtto Vermont from Portugal in the
early 1800s by colonel davidhumphries and he was an
ambassador, I don't know, tospain or something, and that the
wool was eventually made intouniforms for the union soldiers.
(03:00):
Super interesting.
So, um aiden in your mission tokind of rebuild cleveland or
bring back cleveland's garmentindustry um, in the 21st century
, you have a lot of strongheadwinds to navigate.
You know just from the sourcingof fibers and figuring how to
(03:21):
um manage labor costs and thingslike that.
But your reasons are compelling.
I read that the textileindustry is the second most
polluting industry after thefossil fuel industry.
Aidan Meany (03:32):
It is.
Diane Bickett (03:33):
And that 60% of our clothes are derived from
fossil fuels and 95% of ourclothing is made overseas.
Aidan Meany (03:41):
Yeah so go you.
Diane Bickett (03:44):
I'm trying to tackle this.
What was the spark that led youon this path?
Aidan Meany (03:51):
Yeah, my light bulb moment for starting the company
was while I was at a university.
I was at Syracuse Universitywhen the pandemic hit.
So I saw the supply chaincrisis, like we all saw, for
virtually every product.
Some people were worried abouttoilet paper, some people were
(04:14):
worried about various things,and I couldn't help but connect
this real disconnect betweenproduct and the process behind
it to the career and workforcethat I was preparing to enter
after I graduated, which wasthis you know huge fashion
(04:35):
industry that had things beingmade thousands of miles away
from where they were designed orwhere the the you know sales
strategy was made or whatever.
So I was, I had this moral kindof issue while I was you know
had time to think.
Yeah, on you know virtualcollege where they said imagine
(04:57):
making things while you'relooking at your computer.
And I just had a lot of freetime to kind of sit and think
like what am I actually going todo when I graduate?
And it got me thinking like Ineed to really focus on
reinventing the process orresearching how that could get
reinvented.
And one thing led to another,and now we're you know, we're in
our factory here.
Diane Bickett (05:17):
So you came back to Cleveland.
Aidan Meany (05:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Diane Bickett (05:21):
And how long ago was that?
Aidan Meany (05:23):
That was 2021.
Okay, yeah, and how long agowas that?
That was 2021.
Okay, so I, through the supportof the school and the program I
was in, they let me stay inschool and go visit a lot of the
partners that I had Firstresearch, that were real, you
know, shining lights in our, youknow, throughout our country,
(05:43):
that were either farming cottonor, you know, milling that into
a usable textile, or these smallcut and sew teams.
And they let me go travel andvisit these folks that were kind
of operating in their ownparallel universes and not
really talking to each other toomuch.
They were making their productor service and then generally
sending it overseas for the restto happen their product or
(06:04):
service and then generallysending it overseas for for the
rest to happen.
And that's where, that's whereI learned a lot about how to
string this together, how to putit under one roof, what
vertical integration in the uscan look like and why it hasn't
really happened yet.
Diane Bickett (06:16):
So well, even the supply chain here in the us is
really spread out.
So we'll get to the garmentsthat you're making for the
calves and how you're sourcingthe cotton and and and all that.
But, um, tell us about yourcompany and the name found
surface.
Curious about the name yes, thename.
Aidan Meany (06:37):
The name goes back to uh, a project I had in high
school.
Uh, in a in a art class in highschool.
Yes, yes, um.
So we were.
We were tasked with a um, uh, afound object, uh, sculpture
assignment, that was.
That was called found surfaceUm and that was to source.
(06:58):
You know, don't, don't go buyanything, go find the materials
for this sculpture.
That had to tell a story about afamily member and I remember
hearing that phrase and Iactually wrote it down on a
piece of paper and I put it inmy wallet and I didn't know why
or what it meant to me in adeeper way, but I knew that I
(07:19):
was going to use it forsomething in some way and
actually at the time I wasmaking clothes and I was hand-se
some way.
And actually at the time I wasmaking clothes and, um, I was, I
was like hand sewing clothesand I thought it was like, maybe
this is a brand someday thatI'll make or whatever.
And, um, while I was in collegeand I had that supply chain, uh
, light bulb moment, I realizedI'm like, well, this company I'm
(07:40):
thinking about starting isusing what's around me and it's
sourcing these things that areright around me.
And, um, that's when I knew,like, I pulled that piece of
paper.
I was a little yellowed andgross after all the years, but I
knew it was the thing.
Diane Bickett (07:55):
Brilliant when that all comes together, like
that that's cool.
So tell us about your factoryhere in Slavic village.
Aidan Meany (08:04):
Yeah, um, so we are a full-time team of 12, just
under 30 all in with ourcontractors and part-time team.
So that ranges from our salesteam here, our marketing team
here.
We are a knitting mill andwe're a cut and sew facility.
(08:24):
So we've got sewers, we've gotknitting programmers, we've got
machine operators, we've gotaccount managers, we've got
marketers, and it's prettyremarkable that you see all of
them in one space.
So I was actually just talking.
Earlier today I had aconversation about our workflow
(08:47):
and how unique it is that whenour team is working with a
client and trying to meet theneeds that they're expressing
concern over or what they'retrying to solve in the apparel
industry, that's how I reallylook at us is we're the folks
you go to when you're trying tomake something that's never been
made before or you've gotreally strict material or
(09:10):
sustainability goals or whateverit may be.
There's really very littleprojects that we say no to.
Sales can come back toproduction and have this really
tight feedback loop of hey,we're hearing about this need,
how specifically can we actuallymanufacture this or make a
(09:33):
sample of this or pattern, makethis and go back and forth that
way, like I can't think of manycompanies or production
facilities where the sales teameven knows the production team
right, like they're just likeselling stuff that they're told
to sell.
So there's a really interestingthis is a really interesting um
communication structure we havehere, um, where we're literally
(09:56):
making you know, we can watchthe, the goods that we make for
clients uh, come out and theninvite them to come watch with
us, and you know it's prettyspecial.
Diane Bickett (10:09):
Wow, how did they find you?
Aidan Meany (10:12):
So I mean being in Cleveland we like to.
We've been busy taking care offolks that are nearby, like the
Cavs, and we make a lot of goodsfor the Cleveland Museum of Art
right now.
So otherwise, we have anincredible sales team that is
(10:33):
just letting people know thatwe're here.
So we do a lot of calling andemailing and letting people just
know we're here.
But word of mouth for this kindof business, word of mouth is
really strong.
We deliver high-quality product.
Business word of mouth isreally strong.
Right, like we deliver highquality product.
Somebody either buys thatproduct or is asking that you
know, customer of ours who, hey,who made this?
Like I've got a business I wantto.
Word of mouth is really strong.
(10:53):
And then, in that way for thiskind of thing, um, but we do a
lot, you know.
We're busy on social media,we're busy on linkedin and it.
Every time we make somethingnew for a client there's there's
a lot of good feedback and weget some calls and, oh, I want
to make this too, or I have anidea, or you know so.
Diane Bickett (11:12):
so, um, what are some of the guiding principles
of the things that you're making?
Is it from the fiber to themanufacturing process?
And I want to hear more aboutthe Stoll S-T-O-L-L knitting
machine which, when we first met18 months ago, it was your
(11:33):
dream to get one of these, whichis a machine that literally you
can, through a computer program, make a garment or a hat or
whatever.
So you're not operating today.
I wanted to kind of record thesound of it.
Yeah, we'll get you tomorrow.
Tomorrow 9 am, it'll be tooloud to do this.
(11:55):
Oh yeah, okay, Okay, well, verygood.
Aidan Meany (11:58):
But, yeah, we I mean.
So, you know, the foundation ofwhat success is for us really
lies in how do we make producingapparel in the United States
better, faster, cheaper than ouroverseas competitors?
If you were to distill thewhole thing down to one problem,
(12:24):
that's what we're after.
So, through this blend oftraditional cut and sew, which
is your normal person at asewing machine, and hand cutting
out yardage, coupled with thisreally incredible new tech,
which is digital flatbedknitting, or call it digital
(12:45):
whole garment knitting um,seamless knitting like these are
some of the the words peopleused to describe the process.
Um, we're able to combine thetwo of them.
Uh, which is pretty new.
This is a relatively new,especially in the us.
There's nobody, really there'snobody doing this in the state.
(13:05):
So what that looks like iseither seamlessly knitting down
product so good example that wedo are um, beanies.
We've gotten really good atdoing seamless beanies.
Um, we can do, you know, abeanie every six minutes and no
one's got to touch it.
Um, which is, you know,incredibly fast and cost
(13:27):
effective.
And we're not using any yarn.
There's no waste yarn, right,there's like all these
incredible benchmarks that younail when you're doing seamless
knitting.
Um, then there's morecomplicated stuff that you can't
necessarily knit the finishedproduct down without any sort of
hand intervention, but you canknit down the components of it.
(13:48):
So you can knit, you know,sleeves and bodies and necklines
and all these differentcomponents to a garment and then
have that be assembled by hand.
That you still hit awesomebenchmarks.
No, no sorts of material waste.
You know, you're not handcutting these things, um, and
(14:09):
the pattern pieces are justready to sew so you can
streamline that production a lot.
Um, those, those two ways, uh,kind of looking at new age, old
age, um, as like one wholesystem is, is how we're really
tackling that problem.
Greg Rotuno (14:26):
Go ahead, greg.
Do all, or most of the peoplethat come to you like.
Is that why?
Or is it just because they wantto work with somebody in the US
?
Are they all local right now?
I guess, like talk to me aboutwho your customers are.
Aidan Meany (14:41):
Yeah, so we're definitely nerds and experts and
more so than buyers, for brandsmight be about the actual
process, and a lot of that'sbecause over the last 50 years
we've just kicked our processthousands of miles away.
So I don't blame a lot of thebrands and buyers who really
don't understand down to thefiber level how things work,
(15:04):
because why would they wastetheir time learning that they
don't need to like, it's allhappening somewhere else.
So what's cool is we get to notonly educate people on that but
, um, the conversations thatmove the needle for folks lie in
.
You know, you can come watchyour stuff get made.
We will have an incredible, youknow, series of of ongoing
(15:26):
conversations about your productin the development stage.
You can come in here, you canmeet with our team, you can go
through product development in acollaborative, in-person often
way, whereas if you're makingstuff overseas, you're shipping
a tech pack and kind of hopingfor the best.
You're shipping a tech pack andkind of hoping for the best and
then, whenever it might getcleared through customs, you can
(15:48):
see if they nailed it or mostoften not and then to go do that
whole thing again and waitanother three, six months.
So it's.
It's, you know, mostly we.
We see that as what peoplereally care most about is that
you've got a team of people thatcare about your brand, that
will, like I said, very rarelysay no to a project, that also
(16:10):
have these harsh guidelines ofwhat kinds of materials we use,
which I'm happy to elaborate on.
How do we take that materiallimitation and still achieve a
look or a feel or a color that abrand needs to have for their
(16:32):
particular customer?
So when you limit yourself onusing organic cotton or wool
that's from the US, that justlimits the product lines that
you can start to make orreplicate.
And what our team is reallygreat at doing is perfecting
finishes and dyeing andconstruction methods that get
(16:54):
you the same sort of output thatyou would get overseas, but
you're doing it in aridiculously more equitable and
planet-friendly way.
We're really substituting inthese sustainable versions of
product that people are veryused to.
I think beanies are anothergreat example of how to do that.
(17:18):
Most of those are acrylic fromoverseas.
We're using something that canbiodegrade in time and there's
virtually no you know costchange to that brand.
Greg Rotuno (17:30):
So are you able to stay like competitive pricing
wise with overseas manufacturingat all?
Aidan Meany (17:35):
It's product by product.
So like right now our core lineof call it like private label
product, which consists ofthings like t-shirts and hoodies
and beanies, and these are liketemplates that brands can take
and then go customize and, youknow, put their logos on and
print and embroider and do allthese different things that they
(17:58):
, they would do.
Um, those products were gettingreally really like close.
Um, there's some where we'reeven better, um, like, and again
to mention beanies for thehundredth time, that's like,
that's like one of the top onesthat we're really we're really
seeing, seeing a lot of goodprogress in and really all all
the way we get there is our team, mostly our team are like
(18:23):
computer hackers of thisknitting equipment and the more
that we have time to experimentand try things, the better we
can find ways to tell themachines how to operate.
So, because it's a digitalthing, because it starts in a
computer program, the sky's kindof the limit with how our team
(18:43):
can coordinate and create theseinstructions for the machine how
to work.
So, week after week we'relearning like, oh, we can bring
down the knit time on thisproduct by rearranging the
structure in the program thisway.
So there's kind of anever-ending effort here to
bring the cost of those productsdown.
Diane Bickett (19:04):
When did the machine first arrive and how
long have you been learning howto use it?
Aidan Meany (19:12):
Yeah, so our NIT director and myself went down to
the Carolinas, to Stull'sheadquarters, in May to go get
formally trained on the exactequipment that we were first
receiving.
The equipment came thatfollowing month, in June, and
that was our first machine.
(19:33):
We got our second machine inOctober and I mean, yeah, huge,
huge learning curve, like rightnow, other than a couple of
educational institutions, youknow you're looking at very
little, very few companies thathave access to this equipment.
I mean, you know don't quote meon this but arguably single
(19:57):
digit, you know, number ofcompanies in the States that
have access to this andcertainly nobody using it in the
way that we're using it.
Diane Bickett (20:07):
That's really exciting.
So the machinery itself, 21stcentury technology, allows you
to be, to Greg's point, you know, a little more competitive with
overseas production.
You don't have an ocean betweenyou in terms of transportation
and all the layers of of companythat that requires.
So, right, you know I I mean itcan be done, right absolutely,
(20:32):
you can be competitive.
Color me jazzed do you thinkpeople are catching on to the
impacts of the fast fashionindustry in general, or is it
just slow to break through thatbuying habits are destroying our
planet?
Aidan Meany (20:53):
Yeah, I like to think.
I think the way I like to lookat this issue is that I don't
think our habits are goinganywhere, so I don't think the
foundation of People are stillgoing to want to buy clothes,
right, right, people aren'tgoing to want to go out in the
same thing they did last night.
They aren't going to want towear the same thing on their
(21:14):
Instagram feed, every post.
It's ingrained in our culture,right?
Those things aren't changing,so now we need to look at it
less.
In my mind, we look from aagain a material standpoint.
Okay, if we are going to buy alot of stuff, then let's make
sure that it's made out ofsomething that isn't bad, right,
and?
And that there's not a lot ofwaste generated in making a lot
(21:36):
of stuff.
So, like we, we compost all ofour physical waste at our
factory here.
Diane Bickett (21:42):
Because you're only using natural materials,
right yeah, and so it's.
Aidan Meany (21:46):
You know it breaks down in your food and you know
we work with rust bought ridersand, uh, our bins are full over
there, I swear they come up inevery podcast they I mean
they're saving.
They're the.
They're the most organizedcomposting group I've.
Greg Rotuno (21:59):
You know that cleveland needs um and beyond is
I want to follow up on that goahead because I feel like the
biggest issue and hurdle withpeople is always the cost, like
I have no problem personallypaying double for something I
know was made in the usa or likemade locally or with
sustainable materials, but likeI feel like you always still
(22:23):
hear like oh, 90 for a t-shirt.
It's insane, and how do we showpeople that it's not?
Aidan Meany (22:30):
yeah, I, I, I mean.
I have a couple thoughts, firstbeing we'll we will get to a
place in the united states whereit doesn't look that way and
that there doesn't need to bethis sort of like, a like you
don't have to be an advocate tobuy you know a made in usa thing
.
That's like.
My goal is that we can go backto the the 80s and 90s, when you
(22:52):
looked at your tag and it justsaid made in usa and you didn't
have to feel like you weresaving the world for it.
It just like was the way it was.
Um and my.
My other thought is, if wedon't invest in the capacity to
make stuff here, then if therewas ever a situation where we
couldn't rely on another youknow, global partner to make our
(23:15):
stuff, your t-shirt would be athousand dollars, like it
wouldn't be $90.
So it's worth working in thisdirection, because the
alternative, if we can'tmanufacture overseas, is that
things are way more expensivethan we think they are now.
Greg Rotuno (23:32):
Politically speaking, I think you got in at
a very good time too.
I mean, there's a level ofisolationism growing in the US
and isolating against tradepartners, so yeah, yeah, I think
the world's a big place and weshould use it.
Aidan Meany (23:50):
It's definitely not a bad thing, but you can't.
It's like people that ask howthe dark ages happened.
It's like how did you forgethow to do all this stuff?
And it's in the middle of it.
Well, if you shipped the wholeprocess super far away, there's
a lot of people here that are intheir 80s, that used to work in
knitting mills and their kidsor grandkids have no clue how to
(24:11):
make clothes right like that'show it happens and if we
factored in the the life cyclecost of the garments we wear,
they would.
Diane Bickett (24:19):
You wouldn't get a t-shirt for 1010.
You might get a t-shirt if youfactor in the impacts on our
planet, or if the person whomade it made a living wage and
the labor and all that, and thisis where the equipment comes in
huge right.
Aidan Meany (24:34):
Yeah, if we can replace.
Diane Bickett (24:35):
I mean if we could stop the exploitation of
cheap labor overseas using thesestole knitting machines.
I think that's a good thing.
Aidan Meany (24:45):
Absolutely.
It's a much higher paying jobto be a programmer and operator
of this equipment.
Diane Bickett (24:50):
Oh, that's a great point.
Aidan Meany (24:52):
And we are closely partnered with Kent State, who's
educating on how to be aknitting programmer and operator
of this equipment just 30minutes away from us.
So it's a really good ecosystemhere in Ohio to be the catalyst
on that.
We get the best interns fromthem.
80% of our team is a Kent grad,probably higher than that.
Diane Bickett (25:16):
Honestly, now that we've just hired a few more
people.
Thanks for employing these kidscoming out of the college.
Aidan Meany (25:20):
Yeah, I mean, it is the future, and a lot of it can
happen through automation.
Like a lot of, I think, this iswhere the US can be a leader in
time, and what we're seeing isreally understanding how to
implement technology in a way toproduce the right amount for
folks.
You know, brands don't want tohave overhead either.
The issue is overproduction,and the issue is all this stock
(25:47):
that's getting burned or washedup in Africa and all this
clothing waste that's made outof plastic is creating an island
somewhere.
Brands don't want this either,because they want their product
to sell.
So a lot of the issues lie inlike.
We all want the same outcome.
This is where factories can getreal.
Like you know, I like callingus a like, a like.
(26:09):
A smart factory is that we canunderstand how we deliver what
brands want and what consumerswant and what the planet wants,
and do that in one.
You know, one operation in oneconversation.
Diane Bickett (26:20):
So I love.
I love how you see the wholesystem.
As part of this, can you let'stalk a little bit about fibers?
Yeah, I just pulled a coupletags off some of my garments
that talked about the fabrics,because there's natural fabrics,
there's synthetic fabrics, thenthere's this gray area of these
bio based fabrics, which I'mnot even sure what that means.
(26:45):
so yeah I've got some labelshere.
Maybe we could just read themand you can maybe rank them on a
scale of one to five, which is,buy all day long if you can, or
put it back on the shelf kindof thing yeah so we'll start
with with this one which, whichis pretty, pretty common, I
think, came off a pair of jeans,so read it.
Aidan Meany (27:11):
Yeah, yeah 76% polyester, 24% spandex.
Made, made in Vietnam.
Diane Bickett (27:20):
Okay, yeah, those are probably a pair of yoga
pants or something.
Aidan Meany (27:24):
Right yeah, something stretchy, scale of one
to five.
Diane Bickett (27:28):
So that's all synthetic.
Aidan Meany (27:29):
Yeah, I mean I wouldn't yeah, ideally avoid it.
You know your skin is yourbiggest organ, so what you put
on it matters and gets absorbed,and I don't want forever
petroleum in my body, so get itaway from me as an alternative
to the synthetic yoga pants, Ibought this brand.
Diane Bickett (27:54):
I won't tell you what brand it is still made in
China.
Aidan Meany (27:56):
A different composition.
Can you decipher that one forme?
Oh, okay, um, yeah, so 78bamboo, 22 bio-based elastane.
Um, without no, so withoutknowing there's there's good and
bad ways to do bio-based stuffum, our sourcing team spends a
(28:22):
lot of time looking into these.
You know, virgin polyester, uh,alternatives, so this, I mean
my, I would still avoid this one, obviously really, oh, shoot
what, now it's.
Diane Bickett (28:37):
What am I gonna wear to the gym?
Aidan Meany (28:38):
the the.
Now this is me being a bit of astickler, just because I know
that it says made in China.
So I'm assuming that thisbamboo and the bio-based elastin
are coming from China as well.
That would be.
Why is that?
You know that this isn'torganic and you know that this
bio-based be prone togreenwashing would be my fear.
Diane Bickett (29:05):
How do you take bamboo and make it a bad
material?
Greg Rotuno (29:08):
Bamboo is not a.
You can't make a shirt out ofbamboo, so what are they doing
to it?
What is textile bamboo?
Aidan Meany (29:16):
Yeah, I mean.
So you can blend.
You can blend bamboo withcotton to soften things up and
add a little bit of stretch.
It's not a bad thing.
This tag is undoubtedly betterthan the last one.
It's way better than a 76%virgin polyester Way better.
(29:39):
But the thing to look out foris there's a lot of even cotton
being farmed horribly.
There's a lot of cotton that'sgrown with Uyghur labor in China
.
That's really horrible, right.
So you could even get a tagthat's made in China, it's 100%
cotton and you're like whoa, I'mon the right side, but it's
(29:59):
still pretty bad.
So that's where this kind ofthing I would still be like
yellow flag, you know, likethat's all you know, like that's
all you know.
For the most part, if you'renot seeing made in Portugal,
made in Portugal is pretty good.
If you're not seeing made inPortugal or made in the U S,
it's your yellow flag on labor.
Okay.
Diane Bickett (30:19):
Okay.
Aidan Meany (30:19):
So turkeys can be, turkey can be, okay, you know
there's like a few that are allright, but so many things we
have to think about.
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (30:27):
Okay, all right, but so many things we have to
think about.
Yeah, okay, so I'll just.
All these are bad 72 cotton, 23polyester, rayon and spandex.
Okay, we know that's bad.
Aidan Meany (30:36):
Here's one you'll like yeah, there we go, 100
extra fine merino wool.
Diane Bickett (30:47):
Where's it made, though Doesn't say oh Okay.
Aidan Meany (30:51):
Doesn't say We'll just assume it was made
somewhere in.
Diane Bickett (30:57):
Portugal.
Greg Rotuno (30:58):
Yeah, I mean this is great.
Diane Bickett (31:02):
Those came off the leggings.
Aidan Meany (31:03):
I got to go skiing so I was happy that I could find
wool, leggings, wool, I meanbest material best material ever
and we're, honestly, in my mind, we're in chapter one of
understanding like itsapplication.
You know, we we need more timeto experiment with how we can
use it for, for its performance,like not just as a big, chunky
sweater but as something thatbreathes and and heats you up
(31:26):
and cools you down when you needit.
Diane Bickett (31:27):
So okay, um, here's another good one.
This is not really a tag, but Ipromise I do a shout out.
Aidan Meany (31:38):
Yes organic cotton 100 flannel.
Diane Bickett (31:44):
So yeah, the guy at the vermont flannel company
said that they source theirflannel from portugal, but they
do all the cut and sewing inVermont.
And they've been doing thatsince the 1990s, so it's
supporting their local economy.
It's a traceable fabric.
Aidan Meany (31:58):
Yeah, that's about as good as you could do until
found surface came around camearound Nice.
Diane Bickett (32:07):
Talk about that sweatshirt that you made for the
Cavs and how you sort.
Aidan Meany (32:17):
you know how you source that material and how
that came to be and where peoplecan buy it and how much it
costs.
Yeah, so, um, the Cavs do acity edition jersey every year,
which means that they partnerwith a local institution to
co-create a jersey that they'regoing to wear that season,
outside of their normal home andaway jerseys, and so this year
(32:42):
they wanted to add inmerchandise that was promoting a
rigorous, planet-friendlyinitiative.
So they wanted to, and this wasled by Danielle, who is leading
a relatively new kind of officein pro sports, which is this
(33:04):
Sustainability.
Yeah, exactly, which is anawesome.
I'm so glad to see that thatindustry and that you know
category go in this directionand trust people like like
Danielle.
So, um, danielle uh approachedus to be a participant in in the
surrounding merchandise aroundthat Jersey um that they were
(33:24):
making with the Cleveland museumof art Um, and said hey, we, we
know, like you know, shine somelight on your, on your process
and the kinds of materials youuse.
Let's go make this merchandisetogether as a it was a hoodie
and a t-shirt Um, and togetherwe used our, our pretty bread
(33:45):
and butter normal uh way ofmaking things, which is a co-op
of farmers in Texas that pooltheir their cotton crop together
.
That cotton fluff is sent to aspinning mill in North North
Carolina where it's turned intoa yarn, and then that yarn was
(34:08):
sent to Pennsylvania.
It's turned into a yarn, andthen that yarn uh was sent to
Pennsylvania to get turned intoa circular knit um Jersey and
Terry uh yardage um fabric thatwe cut and sewed into hoodies
and t-shirts.
So those you know we we wereable to trace that whole process
.
We were able to folks excitedabout the fact that this was
(34:29):
getting applied into an industrythat hasn't really pioneered
apparel sustainability before.
Cool connection.
There.
It was really sweet, surprising, yeah, and we got to have
Clevelanders make a high volumeof sustainable merchandise for
(34:50):
Cleveland sports fans, which wassuper sweet.
Diane Bickett (34:52):
And who designed the logo?
Did that come out of the?
Aidan Meany (34:57):
So the Cavs team handled the design.
So the components that ourdesign team worked on were tags,
um, paper packaging, um thosesorts of things.
We really handled the materialin the construction side.
So we we made the vision cometo life, um, but there were
(35:21):
plenty of other players like themuseum and like the calves that
were kind of guiding theirtheir vision.
Diane Bickett (35:26):
Yeah, cool so people can find this on your
well in the Cavs team shop rightCavs team shop and then the
museum store.
And the museum store.
Aidan Meany (35:34):
So it's in-person only what about online.
Diane Bickett (35:38):
Can people buy that off your website?
Aidan Meany (35:41):
No, so it's their product.
Diane Bickett (35:43):
I see.
Aidan Meany (35:44):
It was a very collaborative process and we
co-released all these goods, butit was.
This is you know.
Diane Bickett (35:51):
You made it for them.
Aidan Meany (35:53):
It's a really significant step in the industry
, because the ClevelandCavaliers and the Cleveland
Museum of Art purchased the mostsustainable blanks and apparel
for their sales team, for theirretail team and their stores.
That was made byClevelandvelanders for
clevelanders.
Um, this wasn't, you know, itwasn't a charity play.
(36:14):
This wasn't, you know, aone-off thing.
This was a the first actualstep towards them purchasing
really sustainable apparel.
Diane Bickett (36:23):
Um I hope they get some recognition for that
through the Green SportsAlliance or the NBA.
Aidan Meany (36:30):
Yeah, I mean I've seen, I know Danielle's been
raising the megaphone about itand it seems like that's been.
I just know when I check inwith her and then when I see on
LinkedIn I know she's speakingat some global conferences about
the impact of that, because Imean the Cavs have a ridiculous
following and they're a hugeyeah we learned that.
(36:51):
They're a huge, they have a hugevoice.
So to lead that front is really, really sweet.
And there's, you knowabsolutely more to come on that
front, because Cavs aren'tleaving Cleveland and we're not
leaving Cleveland.
Diane Bickett (37:03):
So that's awesome .
We don't have much time left,but do you want to briefly
mention about um, the projectyou have going with, uh, the
West Virginia university?
Yeah, Um which is kind of umrounds out this whole fiber shed
conversation, bringing bringingthe uh fiber closer than right
(37:27):
texas yeah, absolutely.
Aidan Meany (37:29):
Um.
So I've.
Since I started the company,I've been privy to and really
interested in using raw materialthat is in our state or in our
region.
Um alpaca yeah, we have the mostalpaca per square foot of any
state in the whole country.
Virtually no one is using thatfor apparel.
(37:55):
I would love to fix that anduse that.
We're always finding ways totap into that.
In my mind, it's a gold minewhat we're doing with West
(38:33):
Virginia, led by an incredibleprofessor named Jordan Masters,
who has invented what we'recalling a micro mill setup,
piece of equipment that replacesthe need for a farmer.
That's got, you know, 20 to 100sheep or five sheep or whatever
, to go through the real, youknow hard, uh, high barrier to
entry, uh industrial process ofturning that fiber into a yarn
or into something that they canmake a product out of and sell.
Um, because right now they'rejust not participating in that
they can make a product out ofand sell, because right now
they're just not participatingin that, they're just not using
(38:54):
their wool.
We're burning half a millionpounds of wool in just Ohio
because they just don't knowwhat to do with it.
Diane Bickett (38:58):
Yeah, they can't sell it.
Aidan Meany (38:58):
The quick facts are if you had 10 pounds to turn
into a yarn that you wanted tomake beanies out of and sell at
the farmer's market, you're inthe hole like $500, $600, and
you lose a couple pounds on theway.
And so you're just like there'sjust no and you're waiting
(39:20):
years to do this.
There's just no reason youwould ever do it.
Diane Bickett (39:25):
Because there's no mills available to turn that
fiber into yarn.
Aidan Meany (39:29):
Exactly.
The costs are super high.
The volume, the MOQs for themare super high.
If you find someone that you'regoing to work with, there's
already been a hundred peoplethat beat you in line.
You know.
It's like really just, there'sjust like a million reasons why
a farmer would not spend asecond considering doing this.
And now the plan is to deploythese micro mills to two farmers
(39:53):
in West Virginia and Ohio, andeventually beyond, and train
them on, you know, those thatare interested, obviously train
them on how to operate thisequipment for themselves, so
that they can take, uh, the, thefiber that they would normally
just like throw in a barn orburn or, you know, throw away,
(40:15):
um, turn that into a yarnthemselves, uh, which you know
so you go from a zero valueproduct to something that you
know, maybe dollars on the pound, dollars per pound.
Oh I mean, you can sell woolyarn for 30, 40 bucks a cone.
(40:35):
A cone could be anywhere from apound to two pounds.
Diane Bickett (40:39):
That's got to help the farmers who are
scratching by.
Aidan Meany (40:44):
We buy yarn, I mean we store yarn in here, and
that's our main input.
And the real ecosystem we'reworking on with West Virginia is
to dedicate a team andequipment towards opening up the
service of product making onour end in here in Cleveland as
a part of this ecosystem.
So farmers create their ownyarn, bypassing the two-year
(41:10):
wait list, the crazy overhead ofexpenses.
They make their own yarn, theysend it to us, they tell us what
kind of product they want tomake, we will make that and just
charge them the service fee ofusing our incredibly efficient,
low-cost production methods andthen send that back to them in
whatever sort of quantity thatthey can handle or would like,
and then they can go sell thatat the farmer's market for a way
(41:32):
higher margin in higher volumesthan they ever could before.
Diane Bickett (41:37):
Yeah, I just love everything you're doing.
It's so cool, so interesting.
Aidan Meany (41:40):
Thank you, yeah, that's, that's a really exciting
project.
We're currently fundraisingthat with the school right now
and yeah, it would be reallyawesome.
And then you know, it opens thedoor for us to experiment and
create alpaca cotton blends anduse this equipment to go further
and, you know, just further,regionalize.
(42:00):
Things that can be scaled.
I mean just the issues to solveare very doable.
I mean it's very there for thetaking.
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (42:13):
Well, you've done so much in the last four years.
I can't wait to see what thiscompany looks like in 10 years.
Thank you, yeah, and you'realready growing out of your
space.
You said.
Aidan Meany (42:21):
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (42:22):
So that's, I guess, a good problem to have.
Is there anything else?
You want to leave our listenerswith good problem?
Aidan Meany (42:28):
to have.
Is there anything else you wantto leave our listeners with?
I mean, yeah, if you're, ifyou're interested in um learning
about how clothes are made,follow us um.
Found surface on found surfaceon Instagram.
We have a really awesome emaillist, um.
We have like a blog, um, andwe're always educating.
If you want to, if you'reinterested in making your own
(42:50):
clothes or getting closer tothat process, just reach out to
us and we've got a couple ofways that you can participate in
that.
Um.
And yeah, look at your tagsbefore you buy stuff Um and if
you're interested in the RustBelt Fiber Show.
Diane Bickett (43:05):
They've got a great website that has uh ways
for people to connect arounddifferent working groups and
stuff.
Aidan Meany (43:12):
Absolutely.
Diane Bickett (43:22):
That's super cool .
Fibershed episode 24 with thelocal clothing designer Aaron
Jacobson, with fan and our ecomeat panel from last year at
this time, which was episode 51.
Aidan Meany (43:36):
So there's a lot to learn around.
It's really cool to listen tothe eco meat and then this one
and just think that that was ayear yes that's crazy a long way
in a year.
Diane Bickett (43:48):
Yeah, just a year ago.
Aidan Meany (43:49):
Yeah, and that's because of demand, it's because
there's a trend here and peoplewant it.
Diane Bickett (43:55):
Well, said Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, it's been fun.
This was super fun.
Aidan Meany (44:01):
I could do another hour if you want it.
Diane Bickett (44:04):
And maybe we will Meanwhile have a good ski trip.
Aidan Meany (44:07):
Thank you, yeah, yeah, you got me extra excited.
Greg Rotuno (44:11):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
month.
Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
become part of the conversation.
If you would like to send usfeedback and suggestions, or if
(44:33):
you'd like to become a sponsorof EcoSpeak CLE, you can email
us at hello at EcoSpeakCLEcom.
Stay tuned for more importantand inspiring stories to come.
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