May 21, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode, Sunny Simon, President of The Cleveland Vegan Society, joins us to talk about veganism and VegFest 2024, coming to Cleveland's Huntington Convention Center on Saturday, June 22. It's the largest Vegan festival in the Midwest, and it will be delicious, fun, and informative for vegans and non-vegans alike. The Cleveland Vegan Society created VegFest over 12 years ago to celebrate veganism and to encourage more plant-based eating. This year's festival features an impressive lineup of activities, speakers, cooking demos, a cruelty-free marketplace, a kids' activity area, yoga, and more.
Join us as Sunny shares about becoming a vegetarian and then a vegan thirty years ago and the environmental and humane reasons she advocates for the vegan lifestyle. She also clears up some misconceptions about vegans and offers tips for transitioning to a more plant-based diet. Everyone is welcome at VegFest, where over 13,000 people will gather to eat, have fun, and learn from speakers, including Sarina Farb, Christopher "Soul" Eubanks, Will Brooks, Dr. Keary O'Connor, and Gwenna Hunter. Cooking demos include chefs Chad Goodwin, Sonia Steele, and Anna Marie Harouvis. Whatever your dietary preferences, there will be something to satisfy everyone's tastes.
Guest :
Sunny Simon, President of the Cleveland Vegan Society and Cuyahoga County Council member
Resources:
Film - Peaceable Kingdom
The Cleveland Vegan Society
VegFest 2024
Top Vegan TV show
Bitchy Vegan Homo (vegan recipes)
Follow us:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Diane (00:04):
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, where the
eco-curious explore the uniqueand thriving environmental
community here in Northeast Ohio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we bring you inspiringstories from local
sustainability leaders andinvite you to connect, learn and
live with our community andplanet in mind.
(00:25):
Hello friends, as I introducetoday's topic, I want to mention
my dad, frank Tainer.
He was in the grocery businessfor over 40 years.
He started his first grocerystore with my grandfather in the
1950s.
He had a shop a butcher shopand a grocery store at 131st and
(00:49):
Miles in Cleveland, and in the1970s he opened two more stores
in Geauga County.
Whenever people asked him abouthis success, he would just shrug
and say well, people got to eat.
Well, that's certainly true,but eating, I feel, has become
complicated.
Back in the day we weregenerally a meat and potatoes
(01:10):
kind of people.
We ate what we ate, and then wehad dessert.
Nowadays, I think, we're muchmore conflicted.
We know more and we know weshould eat plant-based for our
bodies, for our planet, for ourconsciences.
But for some of us it's hard.
We like cheese or an occasionalcheeseburger.
Where do you fall on thedietary spectrum?
Wherever it is.
(01:31):
I hope you will join me and myguest, sunny Simon, with the
Cleveland Vegan Society, thehost of the 2024 VegFest, which
is coming to the HuntingtonConvention Center on Saturday
June 22nd.
It's the largest vegan festivalin the Midwest and it's going
to be delicious, fun andinformative for vegans and
non-vegans alike.
Sunny (01:53):
Welcome, sunny.
Yeah, thanks, diane, thanks forhaving me it's just it's really
happy to be here to talk aboutveganism and the Cleveland
VegFest.
We're all really excited tobring it back after we took a
break after COVID and we'rebringing it back strong, Awesome
.
Diane (02:09):
Well, we're excited.
It's good to see you.
I haven't seen you in a littlewhile and people who don't know
you should know that you're aCuyahoga County Council member.
You're an attorney.
You're a former Cleveland CityCouncil.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
no, South Euclid Council person.
Diane (02:26):
You're an animal rights activist and you're the
president of the Cleveland VeganSociety.
Sunny (02:32):
I don't know how you do it all but you wear many hats I
do yeah.
Diane (02:36):
So thank you for all the work you do public service-wise.
Tell us what year, how manyyears has the VegFest been
happening?
Tell us what year, how manyyears has the VegFest been
happening?
Sunny (02:49):
So we started VegFest in, I think, 2012.
We decided a group of us cametogether, recognizing a need to
educate people about the, youknow, the benefits of
plant-based eating and theethics of being vegan.
And there was, you know,festivals sprouting up through
actually this country and others.
So we thought it was time forCleveland to do it.
(03:11):
So we formed our ClevelandVegan Society to put on the fest
.
Diane (03:15):
Awesome.
So that was a sole purpose, orhave you been doing other things
in terms of promoting veganismand connecting people?
Sunny (03:22):
Yeah, Thanks for asking Originally.
No, the big event is theVegFest and that was what we
started with.
However, we learned prettyearly on that there was a great
need and demand.
People were, you know, lookingfor information.
So we expanded what we did.
We had Speakers Bureau.
We would go out to thecommunities and have tables and
(03:43):
talk to people and show filmsand, really throughout the year,
put on other smaller events.
But I'll tell you, VegFest ispretty big.
Last time we had it was in 2019and we had over 13,000 people.
So it is a round the clock jobto get that going.
Diane (04:01):
It's huge.
I was there in 2019.
That was the year we made it azero waste event, so I stood at
a waste sorting station for afew hours and it was pretty
awesome.
We had compostable plates andwe were composting the food with
people hadn't eaten, with RustBelt riders, and then there was
(04:23):
a recycling station and then avery small little trash can for
things that could not be, youknow, managed in another way,
but it was fun.
But I was shocked at how therewere thousands of people there,
thousands yeah, we were shockedtoo when we first put it on.
Sunny (04:37):
We didn't know what to expect.
It was something very new toCleveland and we we had to put
on a fundraiser and didn't knowwhat to expect, but that was
sold out pretty quickly.
This is back in 2012 and westarted at Cleveland State
University, at their studentcenter, to put on the first um
VegFest and you know, after wewe had thousands of people the
(04:58):
first year, second year, more,and the Cleveland State people
told us we were kicked outbecause we should be considered
a convention.
So that was pretty enlighteningthat people are interested in
this and want to learn more, andit's grown since.
So we've been at the HuntingtonConvention Center for the past
three VegFests.
Diane (05:17):
Well, congratulations.
You must have a legion ofvolunteers that help you and
your board members as well.
We do, we do.
Sunny (05:23):
We've been an all-volunteer organization.
We have done it on our own.
We had no experience in puttingon a convention.
We didn't know we were doingthat, but we had such talent
coming together in differentsectors that we were able to
continue on.
And this is the first yearactually where we'll have
consultants helping us put onsome of the work, because we all
(05:44):
have full-time jobs and weneeded some help.
Diane (05:47):
Nice to pawn off some of that load on to some other
people.
That's great.
So how long?
I'm curious.
I should probably know thisabout you, but I don't.
How long have you been vegan?
Sunny (05:57):
Yeah, thanks for asking.
I've been vegan about 20 years,but prior to that I was
vegetarian for probably 10.
So I started off with being avegetarian and gradually learned
actually, not gradually when Ilearned about what happens to
animals to produce milk or alleggs, it was very enlightening
(06:21):
to me and instantly upon seeingwhat occurred, I went vegan and
haven't looked back.
Diane (06:27):
Okay, so it's been almost 30 years since you've
vegetarian tasted any meat.
Sunny (06:32):
Yep, okay, yeah, yeah so it's do you?
Diane (06:36):
remember how you felt when you kind of just got, did
it all once and for all and gotand stopped eating meat and
dairy and eggs and things.
Sunny (06:46):
So I remember seeing a film called Peaceable Kingdom
and it was brought to Clevelandby the filmmakers and they.
It was a documentary about theanimal production for dairy and
eggs.
And I remember during I mean, Iwas a mess, because what's my
drives me?
It's my love for animals.
(07:06):
I've always just been animalrescuing.
If there was a pigeon, a cat, adog, it was something you know
as early as I can remember, Ihad this affection and
affiliation with.
And so as I began to learn Imean, I love my dog, I love my
cat, I love my I had everything.
I mean, I love my dog, I lovemy cat, I love my I had
(07:26):
everything.
And it was like when I learnedthat why don't I love this pig
or this, you know, this cow, itstarted to just, you know,
resonate with me that, yeah,there's really no difference
from their perspective.
And if I'm treating these otheranimals with kindness and love
and make sure that they have to,you know, put to sleep, that
it's done in the best possibleway with you know, anesthesia.
(07:49):
And you know and here we arelike, treating, for my
perspective, these, these otherkinds of animals differently.
And when I started learningabout that, I went vegetarian.
It was gradual.
I mean, I got rid of the meat,the, you know, the beef, the,
then the sea animals.
I learned about that with thefish and the oceans.
And then when I saw this filmon the dairy, which it wasn't
(08:11):
clicking until I saw that, and Ijust remember that I just my
friend was with me that day andwe said we're done, and that was
it.
And here I am, you know, being,I hope, an advocate.
Diane (08:23):
Well, you are an advocate , being, I hope, an advocate.
Well, you are an advocate.
I feel that there is adisconnect between the way we
look at our pets and then theway we look at what's on our
plate.
How will VegFest kind of helppeople make that connection?
Sunny (08:37):
So VegFest is set up.
Our board early on wanted tomake it fun, we wanted to make
it educational and we alsowanted to cover all the reasons
why going vegan benefits ourplanet.
Now that includes theenvironment.
So we have speakers that willaddress each aspect the animal
(08:59):
animal, you know, compassionateanimal issues and we address the
environment.
Environment, we address humanhealth, we address body fitness
and we try to really incorporateeverything that um people, why
it makes the planet better.
So that will have all aspectsof speakers, but also um
children's activities.
(09:19):
We had food demos for peoplewho want to learn.
I don't know, know what to cook.
That seems to be a stumblingblock.
So we do.
We have three food demos.
One's a chief chef, ChadGoodwin, from Columbus, who has
a food show that's pretty wellknown.
What's his food show?
He does a vegan food runoff,Like I don't know the best.
(09:42):
I don't even know what theseshows are, but he's all vegan.
Diane (09:45):
Is it on Hulu or something, or can we find?
Sunny (09:48):
it.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, you can.
Sunny (09:49):
You can.
So we've got some local peopletoo, who we wanted to showcase,
but it's fun.
We have a film going about theenvironment during the day that
people can watch film if theyjust need to get away, and tons
of food.
So you asked about how doesthis?
You know it's fun, but it'salso educational.
Anything that people want tolearn about is going to be there
(10:10):
, yeah, and it's free.
Ah, okay, with a $5 suggesteddonation at the door yes, at the
door, so we can do this againthe next year Do you want to
give a shout out to yoursponsors that are making this
possible.
For sure.
So we have Squash the Beef,which is a food truck, a vegan
food truck that actually cameinto fruition from being at one
(10:32):
of our first VegFests, intofruition from being at one of
our first um veg fest, becausewe're like an incubator for
local vegan businesses,restaurants that once you know
they start to you know producetheir food and and show what
they make and how delicious itis, their business grew so
they're a great sponsor.
we have city of cleveland water,who will have their water truck
there, so people are not goingto have water, you know plastic
(10:54):
water bottles, bring yourrefillables and we have a
shingle uh animal sanctuary, so,um, our sponsors have been
amazing and we just hope youknow the attendees have always
been so generous with the fivedollar donation.
They'll get a swag bag and umbe able to put their goodies in
it when they walk around whatare the?
hours for veg fest.
It opens at 11 to the generalpublic till 5.
(11:18):
But if you're, we havesomething new.
It's a VIP where you can.
If you pay $20, you get inthere an hour early at 10 am, so
you have much more opportunityto go to your vendor without
waiting in line, because thelines tend to be long.
As you know, diane, you werethere.
So people want to be a VIP.
(11:38):
They'll get their own swag andbe able just to shop around for
an hour before the generalpublic comes in.
Diane (11:46):
Do you want to talk about any of the speakers
individually?
I see?
Well, you have several chefs.
Sunny (11:54):
Chef Sonia Steele is on our board.
She actually won an award lastyear for what she created with
Impossible Burger, and she'll bedemonstrating that.
Impossible Burger obviously isthe alternative to beef, and
she's been able to really comeup with some interesting ways to
cook with that, so ImpossibleBurger will be a sponsor of ours
(12:16):
as well.
And then we've got a local chef, anna Marie Harvos, who's known
as Anna in the Raw, has beenhere in Cleveland cooking raw
vegan food forever, and so she'sa well-known vegan chef and
she's going to be doing a fooddemo.
Okay, what's her restaurant?
Does she have a restaurant or afood truck?
(12:37):
She has a place downtown, um,where she has a lunch place, and
I think she does some catering.
So people really follow her andshe's one of the originals, so
we're really proud to have her.
Um.
So christopher soul eubanks isgoing to speak on animal rights
and justice, because we knowthose things are connected in my
(12:58):
mind too, and he'll speak tothis.
When there's injustice going onwith any animal, whether it's
human or not, that impacts allof us.
So he's going to speak to thejustice of animal rights and
what we do with them, especially, you know, putting them in
factory farms and really justtreating them like they're, you
(13:21):
know, just inanimate.
Where's he from?
He is from Atlanta and he doesspeaking gigs and he's up and
coming, so we're really excitedto have him.
Serena Farb is going to speakabout the environment.
She travels in a van acrosscountry.
(13:42):
She was her mom's vegan.
She's spoken at our eventsbefore, but now she's grown up
vegan and she's focusing onenvironment and the connection.
Will Brooks is local.
He actually is going to talkabout fitness and being vegan,
that you don't have to be ascrawny.
Diane (13:57):
If you want to see someone fit, go to the VegFest
website and get his profilepicture.
Sunny (14:05):
Exactly Say no more.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
He had a spinal injury.
Sunny (14:08):
I'll say that and he probably didn't think he could
walk or do much anymore, but hewent on to a vegan diet and he
attests that that's what broughthim back to health and that's
what he's going to be speakingabout.
Okay, he's pretty buff.
Dr Carrie O'Connor is aphysician and she also is going
(14:30):
to speak to the benefits of theplant-based diet for human
health.
Obviously, that's reallyintegral.
And then Gwena Hunter is alocal from Collinwood who moved
to LA and she started the LAFood Bank Vegan Food Bank in LA.
(14:53):
So she's going to talk aboutwhat she does and why and how
it's taken off in LA.
So we've got an assortment andyou know, a couple local
speakers we really want tofeature from Cleveland.
Diane (14:59):
That's an incredible lineup.
Is there a schedule on thewebsite so we know when the
speakers are going to bespeaking?
Sunny (15:06):
if people can't come the whole day, yeah that will be
going up, I think first is DrCarrie O'Connor, then
Christopher Sully-Eubanks, andthen we go down to Will and, I
believe well, serena and thenGwenna, but everything will be
on the website.
We're having yoga at 10 am.
People want to?
Start off with a fetch-fetchyoga.
(15:26):
That's pretty popular becausepeople eat all day and they want
to be able to at least dosomething, move a little bit
before indulging.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Do something, move a little bit before indulging.
Diane (15:35):
That's a big weekend in Cleveland, so that's a solstice
weekend.
It's also the Blazing PaddlesPaddle Fest, so I'll be downtown
530 in the morning to volunteerfor that.
Then I'm going to wander overto the convention center for
VegFest.
But the Detroit Superior, no,the Veterans Memorial Bridge
(15:55):
Lower Deck is open too right forthe general public and there's
like an art installation that'sreally cool.
I remember when, you guys, whenthe county opened that up, it
was, oh gosh, it was the 50thanniversary of the last fire on
the Cuyahoga.
That's why that was open, youknow every weekend seems big.
Sunny (16:15):
We originally planned VegFest the weekend before, but
the Rolling Stones is coming in.
I'll be there.
You're going to the concertBreaking the bank, so we knew
there would be no parking and wethought we better move it one
weekend after Smart.
Diane (16:31):
Cool, I read that agriculture is behind 15% of the
global emissions and half ofthose emissions are from
livestock, and that, you know,giving up beef alone would help
reduce our carbon footprint morethan giving up cars.
Sunny (16:47):
Absolutely.
The United Nations has a reportabout this.
About one third of greenhouseemissions is linked to to food,
and particularly in the animalagriculture sector, and it's
it's huge.
It's um we know that themethane emissions from erasing
the, the cattle um nitrates, um.
(17:10):
You've got deforestation tomake room for cattle where
probably they shouldn't even begrazing in a lot of hot zones.
So it's a double whammy becauseyou're taking away the trees
that help combat climate change.
At the same time you're puttingcattle in there.
That's emitting the methane,and you know, not to mention the
(17:32):
runoff and the transportation.
Diane (17:35):
And we have a lot of factory farms.
I mean a lot of that's going onin the Amazon, right, but a lot
of the deforestation for beefproduction, correct so many
factory farms like chicken andhog farms here in Ohio.
So much of our land is used togrow animal feed rather than
human food too.
Sunny (17:54):
And when we talk about equity and how we feed people
and a planet that's just gettingmore and more populated, you
know, um, yeah, diane, it was onmy list to mention world hunger
and that being something thatif we reduce what we eat, the
meat, the animals that it would,it would change that because
(18:14):
we're diverting water.
One, you know what all thewater is going to, feed you know
a cow to to produce meat, whenpeople don't have water anymore
in a lot of places because ofthe drought.
And then you've got the foodthat's being grown, the grain
that should be going to thepeople.
Instead it goes to feeding thelivestock that you know produces
(18:35):
one you know one pound of meatwhich could be feeding a lot of
people.
So it impacts world hungerhugely.
So I'm really happy you broughtthat up.
It's another reason and we talkabout that at VegFest too a
well-fed world is a real youknow, effective organization
(18:57):
that speaks to that.
But environmentally this wouldturn things around if we could
really just get away from.
Diane (19:04):
You know, change our diet a little bit at least, yeah,
and we can all kind of move inthat direction.
Sunny (19:11):
Can we talk about the ocean a minute, of course.
So when we think about goingvegan, we think about, you know,
the beef and the chickens andthe factory farms and we also we
don't eat fish and because youknow, obviously from animal, if
you're coming from an animalcompassionate perspective, you
don't want to.
(19:31):
You know pulling fish out, thatfeel pain, we know they do.
But if you're coming from anenvironmental perspective, it's
huge.
From the commercial fishing,especially the trolling, of all
of you know, the, the fish, thein it snacks, larger mammals,
you know, see sea animals inthere.
It's just stripping, we know,by 2050.
(19:54):
First of all, you know theplastic pollution is part of the
fishing industry, becausethat's the majority of the
plastic in the ocean is from thefishing rods and the gear, from
the nets and the fishing.
But also you're wiping out ouroceans of the wildlife, of the
species.
I mean just it's horrendous.
So our oceans are sufferingequally.
We just don't see it.
Diane (20:16):
I'm glad you brought that up and I also should mention
that Sonny Simon here led thecreation of the Cuyahoga County
Bag Ban, which is in place.
Not too many people know aboutit but I carry my reusable bags
(20:40):
wherever I go and um katherinestirinsky at the county is
really pushing hard to to getthe businesses compliant with
that, with that law thanks.
Thanks for mentioning that, um,so what do you think?
Um, are some of themisconceptions or stereotypes
about vegans?
I feel like, and it's probablyin my head, it's probably not a
(21:00):
real thing, but if I'm with avegan, I feel like I have to.
Not, I mean, out of respect forthat person, I'm going to try
to not eat anything that theywould, you know, anything with
dairy or meat in it.
Or if I'm with a vegetarian,I'm going to probably not eat
any meat in that meal.
My daughter is a vegetarian.
(21:20):
She's seen me eat meat, but, um, but I feel like they're
judging me and it's probably not.
It's probably just in my head.
Yeah, I mean, we certainlythere might be.
You're a kind-hearted person.
I'm pretty sure you're notjudging me.
Sunny (21:35):
Well, when I first got on this bandwagon, I became a
zealot, you know, because once Ilearned about all of this, I
was trying to convert and myfamily's like just shut up
already.
But then, after a while oflearning about respecting
people's positions and never tospeak about veganism while
(21:55):
eating with somebody, and I'vemade that a rule I don't care
what you eat, it's not about meactually, it's about the animals
and it's about the planet andit's about you know.
So I leave that between theperson I'm with and how they're
impacting.
But certainly vegans, theremight be judgmental vegans, but
(22:16):
you know, as I evolved and myboard and people have been doing
it, we know to just let it be,but also to provide a forum and
a way for people to learn aboutit and they can make their own
choices on that.
Another misconception is all weeat is, you know, lettuce or
something boring like salads,and we really don't eat anything
Some gross tofu that they usedto make in the 1970s.
Diane (22:39):
And we've advanced since then.
Sunny (22:41):
We have a whole panoply of food that is delicious and
healthy, and I just went to anevent tonight and I got there to
hopefully eat something and youknow, the host said well, we're
sorry, the vegan wraps are gone.
We, we knew that you'd be here.
So we made sure there's veganand it was gone.
And that's not unusual atplaces that the vegan food goes
(23:05):
first.
But that's the othermisconception.
And in fetch you're going tosee all kinds of bakery and um
you know delicious food andsweets.
So yeah, that's anothermisconception.
Diane (23:17):
I think the vegan wraps go first because people want to
try it.
Plus, they don't want to haveto go home and try to make it,
so you make it more accessible.
So that's great.
I think it's important forpeople to be respectful.
We're all on different placesin the dietary spectrum, and
(23:37):
what tips might you have forpeople who want to move towards
the vegan direction orvegetarian direction?
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat local restaurants have
vegan options or are veganfriendly?
How you make tofu taste good?
What cheese brands are good?
That kind of stuff.
Sunny (23:55):
Yeah, so what's traditionally been in place is
Meatless Mondays.
That's been a campaign forever.
I think it was PETA.
But you know, if you could justtake one day and eliminate, if
you're starting off with beef,get rid of the beef for a day
once a week.
Or chicken and do a gradualtransition that way, just at
least once a week.
Or chicken and do a gradualtransition that way, just at
(24:15):
least once a week, to hopefullyat some point eliminate it all
for that day, because we consumea lot you know, one of the
other misconceptions is we can'tget protein.
I wanted to mention that, thatwe're all right scrawny, and
thanks for bringing that andsuffering from lack of protein.
But I can tell you that there's.
We eat waste in this society,too much animal products and
(24:36):
protein and it's really causinga lot of health issues.
So we get our protein through.
You know different places.
I make sure that you knowwhether it's beans or you know
the different forms of the beans, the tofu, there's broccoli.
There's ways to get protein,and I so.
Anyway, if Will Brooks can doit and look like to get protein.
Diane (24:55):
So anyways, if Will Brooks can do it and look like
he does I know he can't do it-Exactly so.
Sunny (25:01):
The other tips yeah, there's all kinds of easy now to
be vegan.
When I started it was not easy.
There was no substitute cheesesor impossible burgers, but I
can say now that any restaurantI go go any place there's always
a vegan option and there's acouple yeah there's vegan
restaurants too.
There's um cleveland vegancatering.
(25:21):
That's a sponsor.
I wanted to mention them.
They're going to be at fetchfest.
There's birch cafe on the eastside food estafa all vegan.
So there's some veganrestaurants, but wherever I go,
I can always find something okayto eat.
Diane (25:34):
Good to know, and what's your favorite cheese substitute
brand?
Sunny (25:39):
I try different things, so I put the Daiya cheese is a
good brand.
That started, it melts and youcan do whatever you want with it
.
There's pizza that Daiya,frozen pizza that Daiya has in
the grocery store, so I can havea frozen pizza easily, and
there's even meat substitutes onthere, so okay my daughter
(25:59):
wants me to ask you how do youmake tofu taste good?
okay, so I do not know thatwe're still trying to figure
that one out, okay, I think it'sa texture more than the taste,
because it really doesn't havemuch taste.
But it does have a strangetexture.
I think people tend to let ityou know, I'm sure you're doing
this marinate and then let itsit and press it and just grill
(26:22):
it.
Yeah, that's a trick that Idon't know the answer to.
Diane (26:27):
Another vegan I know, turned me on to Mitchell's vegan
chocolate ice cream, which isout of this world.
Sunny (26:34):
I mean the ice cream is.
You can get all kinds ofdelicious ice cream.
There's nothing I miss out on.
I guess, if that's anything,that I go to Mitchell's, I can
have vegan ice cream.
I can really go anywhere to getthe.
There's so much variety outthere and be great Good to know.
One of our board members has umbitchy vegan homo is his big
(26:57):
what bitchy vegan homo um is abaker and he, he um has a great
line of um bakery baked goods.
Diane (27:07):
So that I just want to give.
I might have to get some ofthose.
Uh, for the show notes, I mighthave to get some of those to
link.
Sunny (27:14):
Okay, so yeah, we hope people come and it's just, it's
just a really great, great funday.
Diane (27:20):
Yeah, it really is, and and it's a family friendly event
and you won't feel like you'rethe only non-vegan there if
you're not a vegan and it'swelcoming for everybody.
No, I Diane, I told you, andthe food is delicious.
It's delicious, so come hungry.
Sunny (27:34):
Come hungry Veg, curious vegan veg, it doesn't matter,
it's those that you're going tohave a good time.
Yeah, and bring your kids,because we have a kids area too.
Awesome.
Diane (27:44):
Well, thank you so much for joining us on EcoSpeaks.
I enjoyed the conversation,it's great to see you again and
I will see you at VegFest.
Thanks so much, Diane.
Take care.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
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(28:16):
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us at hello at EcoSpeakCLEcom.
Stay tuned for more importantand inspiring stories to come.
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, where the
eco-curious explore the uniqueand thriving environmental
community here in Northeast Ohio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we bring you inspiringstories from local
sustainability leaders andinvite you to connect, learn and
live with our community andplanet in mind.
(00:25):
Hello friends, as I introducetoday's topic, I want to mention
my dad, frank Tainer.
He was in the grocery businessfor over 40 years.
He started his first grocerystore with my grandfather in the
1950s.
He had a shop a butcher shopand a grocery store at 131st and
(00:49):
Miles in Cleveland, and in the1970s he opened two more stores
in Geauga County.
Whenever people asked him abouthis success, he would just shrug
and say well, people got to eat.
Well, that's certainly true,but eating, I feel, has become
complicated.
Back in the day we weregenerally a meat and potatoes
(01:10):
kind of people.
We ate what we ate, and then wehad dessert.
Nowadays, I think, we're muchmore conflicted.
We know more and we know weshould eat plant-based for our
bodies, for our planet, for ourconsciences.
But for some of us it's hard.
We like cheese or an occasionalcheeseburger.
Where do you fall on thedietary spectrum?
Wherever it is.
(01:31):
I hope you will join me and myguest, sunny Simon, with the
Cleveland Vegan Society, thehost of the 2024 VegFest, which
is coming to the HuntingtonConvention Center on Saturday
June 22nd.
It's the largest vegan festivalin the Midwest and it's going
to be delicious, fun andinformative for vegans and
non-vegans alike.
Sunny (01:53):
Welcome, sunny.
Yeah, thanks, diane, thanks forhaving me it's just it's really
happy to be here to talk aboutveganism and the Cleveland
VegFest.
We're all really excited tobring it back after we took a
break after COVID and we'rebringing it back strong, Awesome
.
Diane (02:09):
Well, we're excited.
It's good to see you.
I haven't seen you in a littlewhile and people who don't know
you should know that you're aCuyahoga County Council member.
You're an attorney.
You're a former Cleveland CityCouncil.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
no, South Euclid Council person.
Diane (02:26):
You're an animal rights activist and you're the
president of the Cleveland VeganSociety.
Sunny (02:32):
I don't know how you do it all but you wear many hats I
do yeah.
Diane (02:36):
So thank you for all the work you do public service-wise.
Tell us what year, how manyyears has the VegFest been
happening?
Tell us what year, how manyyears has the VegFest been
happening?
Sunny (02:49):
So we started VegFest in, I think, 2012.
We decided a group of us cametogether, recognizing a need to
educate people about the, youknow, the benefits of
plant-based eating and theethics of being vegan.
And there was, you know,festivals sprouting up through
actually this country and others.
So we thought it was time forCleveland to do it.
(03:11):
So we formed our ClevelandVegan Society to put on the fest
.
Diane (03:15):
Awesome.
So that was a sole purpose, orhave you been doing other things
in terms of promoting veganismand connecting people?
Sunny (03:22):
Yeah, Thanks for asking Originally.
No, the big event is theVegFest and that was what we
started with.
However, we learned prettyearly on that there was a great
need and demand.
People were, you know, lookingfor information.
So we expanded what we did.
We had Speakers Bureau.
We would go out to thecommunities and have tables and
(03:43):
talk to people and show filmsand, really throughout the year,
put on other smaller events.
But I'll tell you, VegFest ispretty big.
Last time we had it was in 2019and we had over 13,000 people.
So it is a round the clock jobto get that going.
Diane (04:01):
It's huge.
I was there in 2019.
That was the year we made it azero waste event, so I stood at
a waste sorting station for afew hours and it was pretty
awesome.
We had compostable plates andwe were composting the food with
people hadn't eaten, with RustBelt riders, and then there was
(04:23):
a recycling station and then avery small little trash can for
things that could not be, youknow, managed in another way,
but it was fun.
But I was shocked at how therewere thousands of people there,
thousands yeah, we were shockedtoo when we first put it on.
Sunny (04:37):
We didn't know what to expect.
It was something very new toCleveland and we we had to put
on a fundraiser and didn't knowwhat to expect, but that was
sold out pretty quickly.
This is back in 2012 and westarted at Cleveland State
University, at their studentcenter, to put on the first um
VegFest and you know, after wewe had thousands of people the
(04:58):
first year, second year, more,and the Cleveland State people
told us we were kicked outbecause we should be considered
a convention.
So that was pretty enlighteningthat people are interested in
this and want to learn more, andit's grown since.
So we've been at the HuntingtonConvention Center for the past
three VegFests.
Diane (05:17):
Well, congratulations.
You must have a legion ofvolunteers that help you and
your board members as well.
We do, we do.
Sunny (05:23):
We've been an all-volunteer organization.
We have done it on our own.
We had no experience in puttingon a convention.
We didn't know we were doingthat, but we had such talent
coming together in differentsectors that we were able to
continue on.
And this is the first yearactually where we'll have
consultants helping us put onsome of the work, because we all
(05:44):
have full-time jobs and weneeded some help.
Diane (05:47):
Nice to pawn off some of that load on to some other
people.
That's great.
So how long?
I'm curious.
I should probably know thisabout you, but I don't.
How long have you been vegan?
Sunny (05:57):
Yeah, thanks for asking.
I've been vegan about 20 years,but prior to that I was
vegetarian for probably 10.
So I started off with being avegetarian and gradually learned
actually, not gradually when Ilearned about what happens to
animals to produce milk or alleggs, it was very enlightening
(06:21):
to me and instantly upon seeingwhat occurred, I went vegan and
haven't looked back.
Diane (06:27):
Okay, so it's been almost 30 years since you've
vegetarian tasted any meat.
Sunny (06:32):
Yep, okay, yeah, yeah so it's do you?
Diane (06:36):
remember how you felt when you kind of just got, did
it all once and for all and gotand stopped eating meat and
dairy and eggs and things.
Sunny (06:46):
So I remember seeing a film called Peaceable Kingdom
and it was brought to Clevelandby the filmmakers and they.
It was a documentary about theanimal production for dairy and
eggs.
And I remember during I mean, Iwas a mess, because what's my
drives me?
It's my love for animals.
(07:06):
I've always just been animalrescuing.
If there was a pigeon, a cat, adog, it was something you know
as early as I can remember, Ihad this affection and
affiliation with.
And so as I began to learn Imean, I love my dog, I love my
cat, I love my I had everything.
I mean, I love my dog, I lovemy cat, I love my I had
(07:26):
everything.
And it was like when I learnedthat why don't I love this pig
or this, you know, this cow, itstarted to just, you know,
resonate with me that, yeah,there's really no difference
from their perspective.
And if I'm treating these otheranimals with kindness and love
and make sure that they have to,you know, put to sleep, that
it's done in the best possibleway with you know, anesthesia.
(07:49):
And you know and here we arelike, treating, for my
perspective, these, these otherkinds of animals differently.
And when I started learningabout that, I went vegetarian.
It was gradual.
I mean, I got rid of the meat,the, you know, the beef, the,
then the sea animals.
I learned about that with thefish and the oceans.
And then when I saw this filmon the dairy, which it wasn't
(08:11):
clicking until I saw that, and Ijust remember that I just my
friend was with me that day andwe said we're done, and that was
it.
And here I am, you know, being,I hope, an advocate.
Diane (08:23):
Well, you are an advocate , being, I hope, an advocate.
Well, you are an advocate.
I feel that there is adisconnect between the way we
look at our pets and then theway we look at what's on our
plate.
How will VegFest kind of helppeople make that connection?
Sunny (08:37):
So VegFest is set up.
Our board early on wanted tomake it fun, we wanted to make
it educational and we alsowanted to cover all the reasons
why going vegan benefits ourplanet.
Now that includes theenvironment.
So we have speakers that willaddress each aspect the animal
(08:59):
animal, you know, compassionateanimal issues and we address the
environment.
Environment, we address humanhealth, we address body fitness
and we try to really incorporateeverything that um people, why
it makes the planet better.
So that will have all aspectsof speakers, but also um
children's activities.
(09:19):
We had food demos for peoplewho want to learn.
I don't know, know what to cook.
That seems to be a stumblingblock.
So we do.
We have three food demos.
One's a chief chef, ChadGoodwin, from Columbus, who has
a food show that's pretty wellknown.
What's his food show?
He does a vegan food runoff,Like I don't know the best.
(09:42):
I don't even know what theseshows are, but he's all vegan.
Diane (09:45):
Is it on Hulu or something, or can we find?
Sunny (09:48):
it.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, you can.
Sunny (09:49):
You can.
So we've got some local peopletoo, who we wanted to showcase,
but it's fun.
We have a film going about theenvironment during the day that
people can watch film if theyjust need to get away, and tons
of food.
So you asked about how doesthis?
You know it's fun, but it'salso educational.
Anything that people want tolearn about is going to be there
(10:10):
, yeah, and it's free.
Ah, okay, with a $5 suggesteddonation at the door yes, at the
door, so we can do this againthe next year Do you want to
give a shout out to yoursponsors that are making this
possible.
For sure.
So we have Squash the Beef,which is a food truck, a vegan
food truck that actually cameinto fruition from being at one
(10:32):
of our first VegFests, intofruition from being at one of
our first um veg fest, becausewe're like an incubator for
local vegan businesses,restaurants that once you know
they start to you know producetheir food and and show what
they make and how delicious itis, their business grew so
they're a great sponsor.
we have city of cleveland water,who will have their water truck
there, so people are not goingto have water, you know plastic
(10:54):
water bottles, bring yourrefillables and we have a
shingle uh animal sanctuary, so,um, our sponsors have been
amazing and we just hope youknow the attendees have always
been so generous with the fivedollar donation.
They'll get a swag bag and umbe able to put their goodies in
it when they walk around whatare the?
hours for veg fest.
It opens at 11 to the generalpublic till 5.
(11:18):
But if you're, we havesomething new.
It's a VIP where you can.
If you pay $20, you get inthere an hour early at 10 am, so
you have much more opportunityto go to your vendor without
waiting in line, because thelines tend to be long.
As you know, diane, you werethere.
So people want to be a VIP.
(11:38):
They'll get their own swag andbe able just to shop around for
an hour before the generalpublic comes in.
Diane (11:46):
Do you want to talk about any of the speakers
individually?
I see?
Well, you have several chefs.
Sunny (11:54):
Chef Sonia Steele is on our board.
She actually won an award lastyear for what she created with
Impossible Burger, and she'll bedemonstrating that.
Impossible Burger obviously isthe alternative to beef, and
she's been able to really comeup with some interesting ways to
cook with that, so ImpossibleBurger will be a sponsor of ours
(12:16):
as well.
And then we've got a local chef, anna Marie Harvos, who's known
as Anna in the Raw, has beenhere in Cleveland cooking raw
vegan food forever, and so she'sa well-known vegan chef and
she's going to be doing a fooddemo.
Okay, what's her restaurant?
Does she have a restaurant or afood truck?
(12:37):
She has a place downtown, um,where she has a lunch place, and
I think she does some catering.
So people really follow her andshe's one of the originals, so
we're really proud to have her.
Um.
So christopher soul eubanks isgoing to speak on animal rights
and justice, because we knowthose things are connected in my
(12:58):
mind too, and he'll speak tothis.
When there's injustice going onwith any animal, whether it's
human or not, that impacts allof us.
So he's going to speak to thejustice of animal rights and
what we do with them, especially, you know, putting them in
factory farms and really justtreating them like they're, you
(13:21):
know, just inanimate.
Where's he from?
He is from Atlanta and he doesspeaking gigs and he's up and
coming, so we're really excitedto have him.
Serena Farb is going to speakabout the environment.
She travels in a van acrosscountry.
(13:42):
She was her mom's vegan.
She's spoken at our eventsbefore, but now she's grown up
vegan and she's focusing onenvironment and the connection.
Will Brooks is local.
He actually is going to talkabout fitness and being vegan,
that you don't have to be ascrawny.
Diane (13:57):
If you want to see someone fit, go to the VegFest
website and get his profilepicture.
Sunny (14:05):
Exactly Say no more.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
He had a spinal injury.
Sunny (14:08):
I'll say that and he probably didn't think he could
walk or do much anymore, but hewent on to a vegan diet and he
attests that that's what broughthim back to health and that's
what he's going to be speakingabout.
Okay, he's pretty buff.
Dr Carrie O'Connor is aphysician and she also is going
(14:30):
to speak to the benefits of theplant-based diet for human
health.
Obviously, that's reallyintegral.
And then Gwena Hunter is alocal from Collinwood who moved
to LA and she started the LAFood Bank Vegan Food Bank in LA.
(14:53):
So she's going to talk aboutwhat she does and why and how
it's taken off in LA.
So we've got an assortment andyou know, a couple local
speakers we really want tofeature from Cleveland.
Diane (14:59):
That's an incredible lineup.
Is there a schedule on thewebsite so we know when the
speakers are going to bespeaking?
Sunny (15:06):
if people can't come the whole day, yeah that will be
going up, I think first is DrCarrie O'Connor, then
Christopher Sully-Eubanks, andthen we go down to Will and, I
believe well, serena and thenGwenna, but everything will be
on the website.
We're having yoga at 10 am.
People want to?
Start off with a fetch-fetchyoga.
(15:26):
That's pretty popular becausepeople eat all day and they want
to be able to at least dosomething, move a little bit
before indulging.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Do something, move a little bit before indulging.
Diane (15:35):
That's a big weekend in Cleveland, so that's a solstice
weekend.
It's also the Blazing PaddlesPaddle Fest, so I'll be downtown
530 in the morning to volunteerfor that.
Then I'm going to wander overto the convention center for
VegFest.
But the Detroit Superior, no,the Veterans Memorial Bridge
(15:55):
Lower Deck is open too right forthe general public and there's
like an art installation that'sreally cool.
I remember when, you guys, whenthe county opened that up, it
was, oh gosh, it was the 50thanniversary of the last fire on
the Cuyahoga.
That's why that was open, youknow every weekend seems big.
Sunny (16:15):
We originally planned VegFest the weekend before, but
the Rolling Stones is coming in.
I'll be there.
You're going to the concertBreaking the bank, so we knew
there would be no parking and wethought we better move it one
weekend after Smart.
Diane (16:31):
Cool, I read that agriculture is behind 15% of the
global emissions and half ofthose emissions are from
livestock, and that, you know,giving up beef alone would help
reduce our carbon footprint morethan giving up cars.
Sunny (16:47):
Absolutely.
The United Nations has a reportabout this.
About one third of greenhouseemissions is linked to to food,
and particularly in the animalagriculture sector, and it's
it's huge.
It's um we know that themethane emissions from erasing
the, the cattle um nitrates, um.
(17:10):
You've got deforestation tomake room for cattle where
probably they shouldn't even begrazing in a lot of hot zones.
So it's a double whammy becauseyou're taking away the trees
that help combat climate change.
At the same time you're puttingcattle in there.
That's emitting the methane,and you know, not to mention the
(17:32):
runoff and the transportation.
Diane (17:35):
And we have a lot of factory farms.
I mean a lot of that's going onin the Amazon, right, but a lot
of the deforestation for beefproduction, correct so many
factory farms like chicken andhog farms here in Ohio.
So much of our land is used togrow animal feed rather than
human food too.
Sunny (17:54):
And when we talk about equity and how we feed people
and a planet that's just gettingmore and more populated, you
know, um, yeah, diane, it was onmy list to mention world hunger
and that being something thatif we reduce what we eat, the
meat, the animals that it would,it would change that because
(18:14):
we're diverting water.
One, you know what all thewater is going to, feed you know
a cow to to produce meat, whenpeople don't have water anymore
in a lot of places because ofthe drought.
And then you've got the foodthat's being grown, the grain
that should be going to thepeople.
Instead it goes to feeding thelivestock that you know produces
(18:35):
one you know one pound of meatwhich could be feeding a lot of
people.
So it impacts world hungerhugely.
So I'm really happy you broughtthat up.
It's another reason and we talkabout that at VegFest too a
well-fed world is a real youknow, effective organization
(18:57):
that speaks to that.
But environmentally this wouldturn things around if we could
really just get away from.
Diane (19:04):
You know, change our diet a little bit at least, yeah,
and we can all kind of move inthat direction.
Sunny (19:11):
Can we talk about the ocean a minute, of course.
So when we think about goingvegan, we think about, you know,
the beef and the chickens andthe factory farms and we also we
don't eat fish and because youknow, obviously from animal, if
you're coming from an animalcompassionate perspective, you
don't want to.
(19:31):
You know pulling fish out, thatfeel pain, we know they do.
But if you're coming from anenvironmental perspective, it's
huge.
From the commercial fishing,especially the trolling, of all
of you know, the, the fish, thein it snacks, larger mammals,
you know, see sea animals inthere.
It's just stripping, we know,by 2050.
(19:54):
First of all, you know theplastic pollution is part of the
fishing industry, becausethat's the majority of the
plastic in the ocean is from thefishing rods and the gear, from
the nets and the fishing.
But also you're wiping out ouroceans of the wildlife, of the
species.
I mean just it's horrendous.
So our oceans are sufferingequally.
We just don't see it.
Diane (20:16):
I'm glad you brought that up and I also should mention
that Sonny Simon here led thecreation of the Cuyahoga County
Bag Ban, which is in place.
Not too many people know aboutit but I carry my reusable bags
(20:40):
wherever I go and um katherinestirinsky at the county is
really pushing hard to to getthe businesses compliant with
that, with that law thanks.
Thanks for mentioning that, um,so what do you think?
Um, are some of themisconceptions or stereotypes
about vegans?
I feel like, and it's probablyin my head, it's probably not a
(21:00):
real thing, but if I'm with avegan, I feel like I have to.
Not, I mean, out of respect forthat person, I'm going to try
to not eat anything that theywould, you know, anything with
dairy or meat in it.
Or if I'm with a vegetarian,I'm going to probably not eat
any meat in that meal.
My daughter is a vegetarian.
(21:20):
She's seen me eat meat, but, um, but I feel like they're
judging me and it's probably not.
It's probably just in my head.
Yeah, I mean, we certainlythere might be.
You're a kind-hearted person.
I'm pretty sure you're notjudging me.
Sunny (21:35):
Well, when I first got on this bandwagon, I became a
zealot, you know, because once Ilearned about all of this, I
was trying to convert and myfamily's like just shut up
already.
But then, after a while oflearning about respecting
people's positions and never tospeak about veganism while
(21:55):
eating with somebody, and I'vemade that a rule I don't care
what you eat, it's not about meactually, it's about the animals
and it's about the planet andit's about you know.
So I leave that between theperson I'm with and how they're
impacting.
But certainly vegans, theremight be judgmental vegans, but
(22:16):
you know, as I evolved and myboard and people have been doing
it, we know to just let it be,but also to provide a forum and
a way for people to learn aboutit and they can make their own
choices on that.
Another misconception is all weeat is, you know, lettuce or
something boring like salads,and we really don't eat anything
Some gross tofu that they usedto make in the 1970s.
Diane (22:39):
And we've advanced since then.
Sunny (22:41):
We have a whole panoply of food that is delicious and
healthy, and I just went to anevent tonight and I got there to
hopefully eat something and youknow, the host said well, we're
sorry, the vegan wraps are gone.
We, we knew that you'd be here.
So we made sure there's veganand it was gone.
And that's not unusual atplaces that the vegan food goes
(23:05):
first.
But that's the othermisconception.
And in fetch you're going tosee all kinds of bakery and um
you know delicious food andsweets.
So yeah, that's anothermisconception.
Diane (23:17):
I think the vegan wraps go first because people want to
try it.
Plus, they don't want to haveto go home and try to make it,
so you make it more accessible.
So that's great.
I think it's important forpeople to be respectful.
We're all on different placesin the dietary spectrum, and
(23:37):
what tips might you have forpeople who want to move towards
the vegan direction orvegetarian direction?
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat local restaurants have
vegan options or are veganfriendly?
How you make tofu taste good?
What cheese brands are good?
That kind of stuff.
Sunny (23:55):
Yeah, so what's traditionally been in place is
Meatless Mondays.
That's been a campaign forever.
I think it was PETA.
But you know, if you could justtake one day and eliminate, if
you're starting off with beef,get rid of the beef for a day
once a week.
Or chicken and do a gradualtransition that way, just at
least once a week.
Or chicken and do a gradualtransition that way, just at
(24:15):
least once a week, to hopefullyat some point eliminate it all
for that day, because we consumea lot you know, one of the
other misconceptions is we can'tget protein.
I wanted to mention that, thatwe're all right scrawny, and
thanks for bringing that andsuffering from lack of protein.
But I can tell you that there's.
We eat waste in this society,too much animal products and
(24:36):
protein and it's really causinga lot of health issues.
So we get our protein through.
You know different places.
I make sure that you knowwhether it's beans or you know
the different forms of the beans, the tofu, there's broccoli.
There's ways to get protein,and I so.
Anyway, if Will Brooks can doit and look like to get protein.
Diane (24:55):
So anyways, if Will Brooks can do it and look like
he does I know he can't do it-Exactly so.
Sunny (25:01):
The other tips yeah, there's all kinds of easy now to
be vegan.
When I started it was not easy.
There was no substitute cheesesor impossible burgers, but I
can say now that any restaurantI go go any place there's always
a vegan option and there's acouple yeah there's vegan
restaurants too.
There's um cleveland vegancatering.
(25:21):
That's a sponsor.
I wanted to mention them.
They're going to be at fetchfest.
There's birch cafe on the eastside food estafa all vegan.
So there's some veganrestaurants, but wherever I go,
I can always find something okayto eat.
Diane (25:34):
Good to know, and what's your favorite cheese substitute
brand?
Sunny (25:39):
I try different things, so I put the Daiya cheese is a
good brand.
That started, it melts and youcan do whatever you want with it
.
There's pizza that Daiya,frozen pizza that Daiya has in
the grocery store, so I can havea frozen pizza easily, and
there's even meat substitutes onthere, so okay my daughter
(25:59):
wants me to ask you how do youmake tofu taste good?
okay, so I do not know thatwe're still trying to figure
that one out, okay, I think it'sa texture more than the taste,
because it really doesn't havemuch taste.
But it does have a strangetexture.
I think people tend to let ityou know, I'm sure you're doing
this marinate and then let itsit and press it and just grill
(26:22):
it.
Yeah, that's a trick that Idon't know the answer to.
Diane (26:27):
Another vegan I know, turned me on to Mitchell's vegan
chocolate ice cream, which isout of this world.
Sunny (26:34):
I mean the ice cream is.
You can get all kinds ofdelicious ice cream.
There's nothing I miss out on.
I guess, if that's anything,that I go to Mitchell's, I can
have vegan ice cream.
I can really go anywhere to getthe.
There's so much variety outthere and be great Good to know.
One of our board members has umbitchy vegan homo is his big
(26:57):
what bitchy vegan homo um is abaker and he, he um has a great
line of um bakery baked goods.
Diane (27:07):
So that I just want to give.
I might have to get some ofthose.
Uh, for the show notes, I mighthave to get some of those to
link.
Sunny (27:14):
Okay, so yeah, we hope people come and it's just, it's
just a really great, great funday.
Diane (27:20):
Yeah, it really is, and and it's a family friendly event
and you won't feel like you'rethe only non-vegan there if
you're not a vegan and it'swelcoming for everybody.
No, I Diane, I told you, andthe food is delicious.
It's delicious, so come hungry.
Sunny (27:34):
Come hungry Veg, curious vegan veg, it doesn't matter,
it's those that you're going tohave a good time.
Yeah, and bring your kids,because we have a kids area too.
Awesome.
Diane (27:44):
Well, thank you so much for joining us on EcoSpeaks.
I enjoyed the conversation,it's great to see you again and
I will see you at VegFest.
Thanks so much, Diane.
Take care.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
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Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
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month.
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become part of the conversation.
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(28:16):
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