August 20, 2024 • 29 mins
Meet our fellow Cleveland podcaster, Maci Nelson. Maci is a landscape architect, the creator of The Land+Scape Nerd podcast, and a project manager for LAND Studio, a non-profit that connects communities through art and public spaces. In this episode, Maci shares what it's like to design for urban outdoor spaces and the importance of relying on residents' voices to drive the creation of vibrant, inclusive outdoor environments. Through her work at LAND Studio, Maci shares how public art and other enhancements create community-centric environments that reflect who we are as Clevelanders and how nature-based solutions help mitigate climate impacts in our inner cities. Also, hear Maci speak about her podcast, The Land+Scape Nerd, where she shares stories about people and landscapes and provides resources for anyone interested in the outdoor world. In our Tip Time, Maci gives her favorite native plant recommendations to help transform your outdoor space.
Guest:
Maci Nelson, Project Manager at LAND Studio and creator of The Land+Scape Nerd podcast
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Maci's podcast - The Land+Scape Nerd
Follow Maci on Instagram@thelandscapenerd
LAND Studio projects - Small Giants sculptures at Wendy Park and The City is Our Museum
Cleveland Seed Bank workshops
Wild Ones Greater Cleveland
The Pollinator Partnership
Follow us:
https://www.facebook.com/ecospeakscle
https://www.instagram.com/ecospeakscle
Contact us:
hello@ecospeakscle.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Diane Bickett (00:04):
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco-curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends, today's episodefeatures a fellow Cleveland
(00:26):
podcaster, macy Nelson.
Macy is the creator of theLandscape Nerd podcast, which
explores the intersection oflandscape architecture and our
everyday lives.
So ever since starting mypodcast, I thought it would be
fun to interview anotherpodcaster, but it had to be just
the right one.
So when I noticed someonecalled the landscape nerd liking
(00:46):
my EcoSpeaks Instagram post anddiscovered that that nerd was a
Clevelander, a landscapearchitect and a podcaster, I
knew I found the right person.
So one thing led to another andwe got to meet last week at the
Botanical Gardens Celebrationof Seeds event.
And here we are today to talkabout how our landscapes define
us, the art of designing forurban conditions, nature-based
(01:09):
solutions for addressing climatechange and more.
Welcome, macy.
Maci Nelson (01:13):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
This is exciting.
It's such a kind intro.
Diane Bickett (01:19):
You got two people that like to talk.
The house is gonna gono-transcript from Kent State
(01:47):
and a background in educationand advocacy.
So what drew you to this career?
Maci Nelson (01:52):
choice.
As you mentioned theinvolvement, this field is very
broad and it allows for a lot ofmy interests to come together
and to communicate with a lot ofdifferent people, and that's
what I really enjoyed about it.
Diane Bickett (02:09):
Awesome, okay, so let's define the term landscape
.
I think it might mean somethingdifferent to me than to you as
a professional landscapearchitect.
When I think of landscape, I'mthinking of greenery, but what
does that mean to you?
Maci Nelson (02:29):
Yes, thank you, it's.
It's a.
The term landscape architect islike a positive and a negative
right, because it can bemisleading to people who don't
know the profession.
So it has the word architecturein there.
So, people tend to thinkbuildings, and then it has
landscape in there, which peopletend to think about maintenance
or plants and landscaping,which is also true.
(02:51):
It's not that either of thoseare wrong, it's just that it's
pretty much everything outsideof the building is what we are
trained to design and hopefullybuild Right.
So, yes, there are plants, yes,there are buildings, yes,
there's hardscape, there's water, there's, most importantly,
people.
So that is how I framelandscape in that way is that
(03:13):
it's a part of a very complexsystem, or rather, it's the
setting for all of these thingsthat we do in our lives that
happen outside.
Diane Bickett (03:21):
Including public art, which we'll get to a little
bit later.
Outside Including public art,which we'll get to a little bit
later.
So what is your area ofexpertise or special interest as
a landscape architect?
Are there certain settings thatyou like to design for?
Maci Nelson (03:35):
Yes, so I have a particular interest and, like a
lot of my advocacy work is aboutinclusion, especially around
disability and neuro inclusion,which is really just
understanding how we design forthe different ways our brains
operate at different points inour lives.
So, making sure that places areaccessible to, whether it's art
(03:56):
or a park, you know how do youmake sure that everyone is
welcome.
Diane Bickett (04:01):
Okay, and so some of your work with Land Studio,
which is your current employeryou're a project manager at Land
Studio involves designing forurban spaces.
What landscape designconsiderations come into play
for urban settings?
Maci Nelson (04:22):
So the first thing, well, there's two things that
kind of tie for.
First, the one that I have beentrained to say is health,
safety and welfare making surethat whatever we're designing
for especially in urbanconditions because they're very
different from, you know, say, arural condition you're trying
to make sure everyone's safethere.
But the second thing I wouldsay is the community's voice
(04:44):
right.
Who is living here?
What do they want?
What do they need?
Those are the things that wecan turn into design choices,
right.
It's not to say that we'regoing to decide something's
going to be designed here andthen make it fit the community
voice.
It should be other way around.
It's to say what are peopleasking for and then how do we
(05:05):
make it happen.
Diane Bickett (05:06):
And how are you engaging the community then in
those decisions at Land Studio?
Are you convening them in someway?
Maci Nelson (05:13):
Yeah, so a lot of our projects.
We have so many projectpartners.
So, whether it's us convening acommunity meeting or doing a
survey or, you know, invitingpeople out to picnics or
something like that, and alsojust one-on-one conversations
and inviting people to come meetus and talk to us so we can
hear them, either it's us orwe're helping partners do it,
(05:35):
because we know that's acritical part of this whole
process.
Whenever you're either makingart public or you're placemaking
Though we have an expertise inhow to make it happen, but we
are not the experts on like whyit's happening- Okay, Gotcha we.
Diane Bickett (05:54):
I guess I jumped ahead a little bit, maybe you
should explain a little moreabout what land studio?
Maci Nelson (06:00):
is yes, so land studio.
I describe it as a place makingfront.
What did I describe it asactually in my bio?
Big term, because we we reallyfocus on how do we make public
(06:27):
art happen?
How do we implement theseprojects that come from an idea
from somebody or an organizationand go through all the
processes of permitting andconnecting artists and convening
those community meetings?
How do you get that idea of oh,we want a mural somewhere to
the mural is there okay um, andso Land does a variety of
projects.
So it's not just public art.
We do Land and its art and itsneighborhoods and engagement and
(06:53):
then also development.
So we work around a lot of whatcommunity needs are and finding
the right partners.
(07:15):
Yeah, strong connection to thecity of Cleveland?
Yes, for sure.
What projects are you excitedabout of a boy and a girl that
are painted by this incredibleartist, alex Sena?
And this was a project that hadstarted prior to COVID, before
the pandemic, okay, and so itwas great to be able to finish
that.
But I love the setting becauseit's right on the lake.
It's also in the migratory pathof the monarchs when they come
(07:39):
through.
Really, yeah, so Wendy Park isone of the greatest places to go
see the monarchs.
They're kind of there right now.
I was around last week and, yes, so if you have time, I would
definitely say go check it out.
Diane Bickett (07:51):
One of the small giants is a girl and she's
looking out towards the lake, Ibelieve, and the other is a boy
sitting looking out towards thecity.
Maci Nelson (08:02):
About the placement of that, I'm sure that was
intentional it was veryintentional and that was like
through the artist and they havea lot to say about it and we
have covered it a lot on landstudios, instagram, um, and we
have a story like stories andreels, about it okay, and that
installation will be there forhow long a year?
Okay, yeah, so we get to see itthrough the seasons all right,
(08:22):
I'm gonna get down there andcheck it out.
Diane Bickett (08:25):
What about the City?
Is Our Museum?
Maci Nelson (08:29):
Yes, Tell us about that.
I'm excited about that onebecause it was an app, or it is
an app that Land Studio createdand is revamping right now, and
it helps people get out intotheir communities to look at art
and other historic places,right, so it's about the stories
that are already existing there.
Um, and so you can.
(08:51):
It's a self-guided tour and youcan just walk around a
neighborhood and then see thehistory of what that is, or the
story behind the piece and howmany pieces are there or murals,
oh goodness, oh those are likecould you do it in a day?
um, there's some that you coulddo in a day right.
So there are differentneighborhoods that like
highlighting um one that Ireally want people to check out
(09:14):
is the university circle one,because there's so many art
pieces around there that mightgo a little unnoticed because
there's so many museums andpieces there, so that one's a
good tour.
And then we also have ones forOhio City, which has a lot of
artwork out and about.
So, yeah, it's, it's meant tobe whatever you wanted to do,
like enhance your visitingexperience already.
Diane Bickett (09:35):
That could be fun .
So how do our landscapes defineus?
Like when someone comes intothe city and they see the public
art and they see theintentional public parks and the
design that was put into them.
That represents us very well.
Maci Nelson (09:52):
Yes, that's such a good question because it's
something that I think aboutwhenever I visit new cities.
I'm like, what do your publicspaces say about you?
And I think what Cleveland isworking towards is making that
more understood.
Like we have a very complexhistory and it's hard to explain
(10:14):
that in just one visit orseeing one place right.
So it's important that in asmany public spaces as possible,
you have some representation ofthe community that it's in right
.
Because you can't just say, oh,this is Cleveland, right,
because that's that Cleveland'smade up of a lot of smaller
pieces and people, and you know.
(10:36):
So I would say it's just veryimportant that public art or
public spaces are expressive,and you know, some places do
that really really well.
I am thinking about Wendy Park,obviously, as that example,
because now you have this bigpiece of art there that says
(10:56):
okay, here's something that wewant you to look at our lake.
I would also throw in there, too, like public square downtown,
as that you know as an example,to say you know there's
something that people neededthat you know.
As an example, to say you knowthere's something that people
needed, who you know.
A lot of residents didn't havea place to gather downtown and
now they have creating a placethat was welcoming to families
(11:16):
and has food and it hasprogramming and really trying to
do that, and I know that LandStudio led that project before
my time.
Diane Bickett (11:24):
Very good.
What would you like to see interms of designing public spaces
that honor Cleveland'sindustrial past?
If you had a great big budget,what type of elements would you
like to see incorporated?
Maci Nelson (11:41):
I would really like to see the reuse of certain
materials okay, like uh, onesthat are local, or to save them
from the dump right to to not oh, we're all about creative reuse
.
Yes, exactly um to, to put inthe effort to uh and if you said
big budget, right, becausethose things make like that
reuse takes uh time and money um, to reuse a lot of our I think
(12:04):
a lot of our brick material.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Okay, would be really cool to see.
Maci Nelson (12:08):
Like polished up.
Also, we have one of the oldestwooden streets ever Tesla Court
.
Yeah, tesla Court and not thatI.
I don't know, actually, all ofthe details that go into that,
but I do think there's somethingabout using wooden materials in
an urban area that like led upto our industrial age.
Diane Bickett (12:29):
Yeah, how about steel too?
Yeah.
Maci Nelson (12:38):
We can incorporate steel, that in a way to honor
the past of the industrial, youknow, yeah, our industrial past.
I'm wondering if we couldhybridize the industrial past
with more like natural solutions.
So saying like yeah, there isthis, you know steel bridge.
Like OK, so what could thatturn into Right?
(13:01):
Like what does that turn into Agreen?
Diane Bickett (13:04):
Are we talking about the Veterans Memorial
Bridge?
Yeah, yeah, it's like, can weturn that?
Maci Nelson (13:08):
into something else .
That is, a balance of what wasback then and then also what
came before it, like what had todisappear in order for it to
exist.
And then how do we then blendthose two things together, Like
that's how I would like to seesome sort of hybridization two
things together, like that's howI would like to see some sort
of hybridization.
Diane Bickett (13:32):
I like that idea and I know the county's looking
for all sorts of ideas on how touse the space below the bridge
which was the trolley cars usedto go there.
I did the bridge walk this yearthe second time.
It was super cool, very cool.
I'm glad that you like that,yeah.
Maci Nelson (13:42):
Second time.
It was super cool, very cool.
Diane Bickett (13:43):
I'm glad that you like that.
Yeah, I noticed.
I read in the paper over theweekend that the county got
another big chunk of money totake down a lot of structures,
still more, more demolitionprojects.
This one they featured istalking about an apartment
complex in East Cleveland andthe Blight in East Cleveland is
(14:07):
well known and they interviewedresidents who had to look at
that and the buildings arecoming down soon and that's
great for them.
There will be an opportunitythere, a blank canvas, so to
speak, that could help bring thecommunity together and
(14:27):
revitalize the community.
Do you have any thoughts about?
You know what could be donethere?
I mean, I think, public park,community garden.
Maci Nelson (14:40):
I think like first and foremost, again going back
to the community voice, that Iwould want to hear what they
wanted, because I do know thathousing is so critical right.
That, even though we have a lotof blight, that doesn't mean
that people don't need thesespaces to be something that can
serve them in a way thatactually helps their needs and
(15:03):
their community.
In a way that actually helpstheir needs and their community.
Even though I'm like I'm alandscape person and I would
love more green spaces, I thinkthat there's a lot of
opportunity for green spaces tobe woven into, built like
buildings, okay, and and thingslike that.
So if housing is coming down,but it's still needed, right,
and they need to rebuild it ashousing, Can we?
(15:24):
also make that a green spacethat is incorporating housing.
That to me would be somethinggreat.
Yeah, play space for kids.
Diane Bickett (15:32):
Exactly right.
Maci Nelson (15:34):
How can it be more than one thing?
Diane Bickett (15:36):
Yeah, for Cleveland and East Cleveland and
some of our other cities thathave heat islands and East
Cleveland and some of our othercities that have heat islands.
And can we use landscapearchitecture to kind of address
our region's climate impacts?
You know, flooding, heatislands, loss of biodiversity?
(15:59):
Absolutely.
Maci Nelson (16:01):
Yeah, this is sort of the like the biggest thing
that I think Cleveland couldreally monopolize on using their
landscape architects to findnature based solutions for our
specific regions, like issuesright.
And you mentioned urban heatisland.
For those that aren't familiar,it's the idea that the sun is
(16:22):
heating up and basically storinga lot of heat into the
hardscapes, like our concreteand asphalt, and so it's making
it hotter in those spaces, butalso when the sun goes down,
that hardscape is just radiatingthe heat right back out into
the environment for longer.
So these areas are just hotterand will continue to get hotter
as our environment gets hotter.
(16:43):
Hotter and will continue to gethotter as our environment gets
hotter.
And so one of the solutionsthat's proposed for that is, you
know, more trees to create moreshading right To allow for that
area to be cooled right, butthat's also takes time Trees you
know, so that's just oneexample.
You need to cool off, but it'sgoing to take 20 years Correct
(17:04):
Right, so that's not exactly themost response like a responsive
solution, but it is a greatlong term solution.
So what we're finding out isthat we need to stagger a lot of
these implementations, a lot ofthese strategies to help what's
needed now and then what'sneeded in the future.
But the big challenge is weknow that nature-based solutions
(17:27):
work, but we've builtenvironments that are impeding
nature you know.
So it does take time, and ittakes testing too, to figure out
what works in different areas.
Yeah, so anything from a raingarden to reforestation helps
and that is how like we can dothat.
(17:49):
But we need more projects and,yeah, we need funding and we
need advocacy for that kind ofwork to be done.
Diane Bickett (18:02):
Buildings coming down creates tremendous
opportunity, and I'm so glad tohear that people like yourself
are talking about these thingsand working to implement them.
We need city planners focusedon that, and I'm sure they are.
Maci Nelson (18:12):
Yeah, we have them, you know we have them and
they're working hard to see allof this happen.
And yeah, that's good.
Yeah, we have a lot of greatpeople who are trying to blend,
you know, the present, the past,the future.
Yeah, what we need.
Diane Bickett (18:30):
Yeah, and trying to create a more livable urban
environment.
Yeah, want to talk about yourpodcast?
I guess we should.
So you are a nerd.
How are you a landscape nerd?
So you are a nerd.
How are you a?
Maci Nelson (18:44):
landscape nerd I say I'm very much more a nerd
than I am an academic because, Idefinitely enjoy learning and
researching.
Diane Bickett (18:56):
I'm not sure I know the difference between a
nerd and an academic?
Maci Nelson (18:58):
Oh, I think one is just like you know, one actually
.
Oh no, I also teach.
I was going to say one actuallyteaches at a college.
Oh, I should have added that tomy list of things that you do.
Um, I would say that a nerd hasa different kind of enthusiasm.
Like I, don't have a goal perse when I'm researching these
things, other than to maybeshare it with other people.
I'm not using it to necessarilyprove a point.
(19:18):
I'm just curious about it um soI try to cover anything that,
like, you might encounter duringyour day, to just showcase how
we're all connected throughoutdoor space, right?
So okay, I did an episode on,uh, a favorite place I visit
very often, the shaker lakesnature center, um, and that was
(19:38):
one of the first episodes I'veever done, and that was because
I was like, oh, I love thisplace so much, well, why?
Okay, now let's look at thedesign that made that place
enjoyable oh, I'm gonna checkout that episode what number
episode was that?
oh, it's number one your firstone, okay, cool and you have.
Diane Bickett (19:56):
You have, how many episodes are you?
Maci Nelson (19:58):
I think I'm like 50 something episodes really.
Diane Bickett (20:01):
So we're like right there together, but you
are 61.
Maci Nelson (20:04):
You're way more productive than this is.
I'm at 50 something after fouryears I keep to a schedule and
I'm retired, but um, but yeah,so that that's what I focus on,
um, and then I also have done anepisode on dungeon dragons
because, like, I love that game,but, as a designer, it's
talking about how you have anidea right and you're trying to
(20:27):
convince people around you thatthis is a workable idea right,
so I have an idea for a garden,I have to convince the client or
the homeowner that this idea isgoing to work, and then you
also believe that right.
So you do the same thing inplaying games or role playing
games.
So that's how.
Diane Bickett (20:47):
I would have never connected those.
Maci Nelson (20:49):
Oh, I know you are a nerd.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I love it.
I love it.
Diane Bickett (20:54):
What other topics do you cover, like that would
be of interest to EcoSpeakslisteners.
Maci Nelson (20:59):
Oh yes, so I talk a lot about how you can inform
the space around you, likethat's the whole reason I do
this is like to empower peopleto say like, oh, you have a
connection to your landscape andwhen you have that connection
you can kind of like change it,you can play with it, okay.
Um, one of the biggest thing,like one of my most favorite
(21:20):
episodes too, is about landscapeand music, and so, like when we
go out to these outdoorconcerts, right especially
during this time of year, howwe're experiencing these spaces
you can start to say, oh, Iunderstand, I love going to,
like cane park, you know, forfor a show or when someone does
a pop up show on a bridge Right.
I think the city is starting todo that, that you know you can
(21:44):
enjoy your outdoor spaces indifferent ways, and then it
helps people understand thevalue of these outdoor spaces to
stay green and nice and aroundand not to be, you know, decided
to be become something else,like this is a place for
gathering and like that's what Ithink.
Diane Bickett (22:03):
Um, and that's so healthy for us to just to be
outdoors anywhere, butespecially enjoying music or art
.
Um, it's good for our mentalhealth, it is.
Should we get into tip time?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Let's talk tips.
Diane Bickett (22:22):
Okay, well, is there anything else you want to
say about your podcast?
Before we move on?
I don't want to cut you off- oh, no, I appreciate that.
Maci Nelson (22:33):
I guess, really, if you're interested in just
nerding out about things thatyou didn't, I don't know, I
cover a lot of topics.
Another episode I'm thinkingabout right now is the lawn
episode, where we talk about,like, why we have lawns, you
know, and because I know a lotof people want to get rid of
their lawns, transform theirlawns, or they do like their
lawns.
They don't know how to like,how to justify it, right, like.
There's a lot in that episodefor your listeners I think that
(22:56):
they would enjoy, okay, but yeah, again, it's, it's just deep
diving into topics for for alittle bit of time with me and
yeah, okay.
Diane Bickett (23:06):
And you're a little different than this
podcast in that you're justtalking to you, mean that's, you
are you interviewing people too?
Sometimes sometimes, but mostlyit's just macy nerding out it.
Maci Nelson (23:19):
It starts off a lot of macy nerding out, okay, like
so.
There are a lot of soloepisodes and then you know other
nerdy people reach out and thenthey want to.
They want to talk too.
I admire that, because Icouldn't just sit at a
microphone and talk.
Diane Bickett (23:31):
I'm not that chatty but I appreciate people
that are Okay moving into tiptime.
So for the non-nerds out there,I guess, since you are
affiliated with the ClevelandSeed Bank and I think we have
some gardeners out there thatare listening can you recommend
(23:52):
any seed varieties that growwell here in Cleveland and are
adapted to our Northeast Ohioclimate, our changing Northeast
Ohio climate?
Maci Nelson (24:02):
Yeah, so I think it's important to note that with
the Cleveland Seed Bank, weencourage people to save their
own seeds right.
And grow what's around you andlike kind of what your neighbors
are already doing, becausethey're already adapting, know
as we speak, as they're goingthrough this process.
Um, I'm a, I love, but morenative than the more native oh
(24:22):
correct right, yeah so, um, Iwould say, like, my favorites
are bergamot, and so monarda, uh, what's that last one, minarda,
which is, which is wildbergamot's um botanic name.
Okay, yes, sir.
So so yeah, wild bergamot, uh,and purple coneflower those ones
(24:43):
um are like my favoritemilkweed, of course, is
something that we are allgetting to to know and love.
Um, yellow coneflower, I think,is one that doesn't get enough
enough.
Uh, love out there as some, asa, as a perennial that adapts
very well.
Um, one thing that I haven'tseen growing around here, more
(25:07):
so in southern ohio, which goesinto like the fruiting trees, is
our pawpaw oh, yeah, I I Wouldlove to see more pawpaws around
here.
Why, why not, I think, for likea crop and for food
sustainability?
Diane Bickett (25:22):
Because it's cool to say I think the texture is a
little weird.
I'm not sure I'm a pawpaw lover, but oh.
Maci Nelson (25:29):
I have full intentions on going to Pawpaw
Fest this year Athens, Ohio,Pawpaw Fest.
Diane Bickett (25:33):
When is it Usually in the fall?
Maci Nelson (25:35):
Oh yeah, I think it's September 13th through 15th
Coming up, but because I mean,with an adapting climate, right,
we are getting warmer and so alot of the varieties of trees
and plants that are doing wellin southern Ohio are going to
start to do well here.
Okay, so that's something tokeep in mind.
All right in mind um, that we'vegot, we've gone beyond a
(26:01):
certain point where we can't uh,turn back, certainly in certain
things, but that doesn't meanwe can't adapt right.
So that's why I say, like, fora tree, pawpaw, I'd love to see
a little bit more of that.
It's a lot.
I know it's a fruiting tree,but um, fruiting trees were
highly recommended from thepanel.
Diane Bickett (26:14):
At the celebration of seeds.
They were yeah, witch hazel wasrecommended.
Maci Nelson (26:20):
Oh yes, it was very popular.
I love witch hazel.
Yeah, thanks for bringing thatone up, yeah.
Diane Bickett (26:25):
Any flowering tree.
Maci Nelson (26:27):
Yes, yeah, they liked it for like, especially
because people like to have themright.
Diane Bickett (26:33):
Oh, they're beautiful.
Maci Nelson (26:33):
They're beautiful and I think that's important and
, especially as a designer,no-transcript of these things
(27:09):
look like in their naturalsettings and also see what they
look like in horticulturalsettings, so that you know
you're going to get a variety ofplants and variety of like
growth types, you know, and youcan make things really, really
beautiful there's resources outthere.
Diane Bickett (27:22):
There's greater cleveland, wild ones and the
pollinator project nature in mybackyard different organizations
that can help you decide, andat what's the plan and at the
cleveland seed bank, we do offerworkshops monthly to cover
different topics right around.
Maci Nelson (27:39):
You know, becoming more sustainable in your own
space whether that's compostingor learning how to cook with the
food that comes out of yourgarden, or saving your seeds,
like those are types of thingsthat are a resource that
everybody could use, like youknow, anyone who's listening
right now.
Diane Bickett (27:56):
Okay, well, we'll put links to those
organizations in our show notes.
And my final tip is follow ecospeak see le on instagram and
facebook and follow thelandscape nerd on.
Where are you on?
Maci Nelson (28:09):
instagram as well.
Diane Bickett (28:11):
Okay, on instagram I mean you never know
what beautiful friendships youcan create by reaching out to
some of your followers.
So, yeah, well, thank you, macy.
Maci Nelson (28:21):
This was fun, thank you so much we covered a lot we
did.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
month.
Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
become part of the conversation.
If you would like to send usfeedback and suggestions, or if
(28:47):
you'd like to become a sponsorof EcoSpeak CLE, you can email
us at hello at ecospeakclecom.
Stay tuned for more importantand inspiring stories to come.
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco-curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends, today's episodefeatures a fellow Cleveland
(00:26):
podcaster, macy Nelson.
Macy is the creator of theLandscape Nerd podcast, which
explores the intersection oflandscape architecture and our
everyday lives.
So ever since starting mypodcast, I thought it would be
fun to interview anotherpodcaster, but it had to be just
the right one.
So when I noticed someonecalled the landscape nerd liking
(00:46):
my EcoSpeaks Instagram post anddiscovered that that nerd was a
Clevelander, a landscapearchitect and a podcaster, I
knew I found the right person.
So one thing led to another andwe got to meet last week at the
Botanical Gardens Celebrationof Seeds event.
And here we are today to talkabout how our landscapes define
us, the art of designing forurban conditions, nature-based
(01:09):
solutions for addressing climatechange and more.
Welcome, macy.
Maci Nelson (01:13):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
This is exciting.
It's such a kind intro.
Diane Bickett (01:19):
You got two people that like to talk.
The house is gonna gono-transcript from Kent State
(01:47):
and a background in educationand advocacy.
So what drew you to this career?
Maci Nelson (01:52):
choice.
As you mentioned theinvolvement, this field is very
broad and it allows for a lot ofmy interests to come together
and to communicate with a lot ofdifferent people, and that's
what I really enjoyed about it.
Diane Bickett (02:09):
Awesome, okay, so let's define the term landscape
.
I think it might mean somethingdifferent to me than to you as
a professional landscapearchitect.
When I think of landscape, I'mthinking of greenery, but what
does that mean to you?
Maci Nelson (02:29):
Yes, thank you, it's.
It's a.
The term landscape architect islike a positive and a negative
right, because it can bemisleading to people who don't
know the profession.
So it has the word architecturein there.
So, people tend to thinkbuildings, and then it has
landscape in there, which peopletend to think about maintenance
or plants and landscaping,which is also true.
(02:51):
It's not that either of thoseare wrong, it's just that it's
pretty much everything outsideof the building is what we are
trained to design and hopefullybuild Right.
So, yes, there are plants, yes,there are buildings, yes,
there's hardscape, there's water, there's, most importantly,
people.
So that is how I framelandscape in that way is that
(03:13):
it's a part of a very complexsystem, or rather, it's the
setting for all of these thingsthat we do in our lives that
happen outside.
Diane Bickett (03:21):
Including public art, which we'll get to a little
bit later.
Outside Including public art,which we'll get to a little bit
later.
So what is your area ofexpertise or special interest as
a landscape architect?
Are there certain settings thatyou like to design for?
Maci Nelson (03:35):
Yes, so I have a particular interest and, like a
lot of my advocacy work is aboutinclusion, especially around
disability and neuro inclusion,which is really just
understanding how we design forthe different ways our brains
operate at different points inour lives.
So, making sure that places areaccessible to, whether it's art
(03:56):
or a park, you know how do youmake sure that everyone is
welcome.
Diane Bickett (04:01):
Okay, and so some of your work with Land Studio,
which is your current employeryou're a project manager at Land
Studio involves designing forurban spaces.
What landscape designconsiderations come into play
for urban settings?
Maci Nelson (04:22):
So the first thing, well, there's two things that
kind of tie for.
First, the one that I have beentrained to say is health,
safety and welfare making surethat whatever we're designing
for especially in urbanconditions because they're very
different from, you know, say, arural condition you're trying
to make sure everyone's safethere.
But the second thing I wouldsay is the community's voice
(04:44):
right.
Who is living here?
What do they want?
What do they need?
Those are the things that wecan turn into design choices,
right.
It's not to say that we'regoing to decide something's
going to be designed here andthen make it fit the community
voice.
It should be other way around.
It's to say what are peopleasking for and then how do we
(05:05):
make it happen.
Diane Bickett (05:06):
And how are you engaging the community then in
those decisions at Land Studio?
Are you convening them in someway?
Maci Nelson (05:13):
Yeah, so a lot of our projects.
We have so many projectpartners.
So, whether it's us convening acommunity meeting or doing a
survey or, you know, invitingpeople out to picnics or
something like that, and alsojust one-on-one conversations
and inviting people to come meetus and talk to us so we can
hear them, either it's us orwe're helping partners do it,
(05:35):
because we know that's acritical part of this whole
process.
Whenever you're either makingart public or you're placemaking
Though we have an expertise inhow to make it happen, but we
are not the experts on like whyit's happening- Okay, Gotcha we.
Diane Bickett (05:54):
I guess I jumped ahead a little bit, maybe you
should explain a little moreabout what land studio?
Maci Nelson (06:00):
is yes, so land studio.
I describe it as a place makingfront.
What did I describe it asactually in my bio?
Big term, because we we reallyfocus on how do we make public
(06:27):
art happen?
How do we implement theseprojects that come from an idea
from somebody or an organizationand go through all the
processes of permitting andconnecting artists and convening
those community meetings?
How do you get that idea of oh,we want a mural somewhere to
the mural is there okay um, andso Land does a variety of
projects.
So it's not just public art.
We do Land and its art and itsneighborhoods and engagement and
(06:53):
then also development.
So we work around a lot of whatcommunity needs are and finding
the right partners.
(07:15):
Yeah, strong connection to thecity of Cleveland?
Yes, for sure.
What projects are you excitedabout of a boy and a girl that
are painted by this incredibleartist, alex Sena?
And this was a project that hadstarted prior to COVID, before
the pandemic, okay, and so itwas great to be able to finish
that.
But I love the setting becauseit's right on the lake.
It's also in the migratory pathof the monarchs when they come
(07:39):
through.
Really, yeah, so Wendy Park isone of the greatest places to go
see the monarchs.
They're kind of there right now.
I was around last week and, yes, so if you have time, I would
definitely say go check it out.
Diane Bickett (07:51):
One of the small giants is a girl and she's
looking out towards the lake, Ibelieve, and the other is a boy
sitting looking out towards thecity.
Maci Nelson (08:02):
About the placement of that, I'm sure that was
intentional it was veryintentional and that was like
through the artist and they havea lot to say about it and we
have covered it a lot on landstudios, instagram, um, and we
have a story like stories andreels, about it okay, and that
installation will be there forhow long a year?
Okay, yeah, so we get to see itthrough the seasons all right,
(08:22):
I'm gonna get down there andcheck it out.
Diane Bickett (08:25):
What about the City?
Is Our Museum?
Maci Nelson (08:29):
Yes, Tell us about that.
I'm excited about that onebecause it was an app, or it is
an app that Land Studio createdand is revamping right now, and
it helps people get out intotheir communities to look at art
and other historic places,right, so it's about the stories
that are already existing there.
Um, and so you can.
(08:51):
It's a self-guided tour and youcan just walk around a
neighborhood and then see thehistory of what that is, or the
story behind the piece and howmany pieces are there or murals,
oh goodness, oh those are likecould you do it in a day?
um, there's some that you coulddo in a day right.
So there are differentneighborhoods that like
highlighting um one that Ireally want people to check out
(09:14):
is the university circle one,because there's so many art
pieces around there that mightgo a little unnoticed because
there's so many museums andpieces there, so that one's a
good tour.
And then we also have ones forOhio City, which has a lot of
artwork out and about.
So, yeah, it's, it's meant tobe whatever you wanted to do,
like enhance your visitingexperience already.
Diane Bickett (09:35):
That could be fun .
So how do our landscapes defineus?
Like when someone comes intothe city and they see the public
art and they see theintentional public parks and the
design that was put into them.
That represents us very well.
Maci Nelson (09:52):
Yes, that's such a good question because it's
something that I think aboutwhenever I visit new cities.
I'm like, what do your publicspaces say about you?
And I think what Cleveland isworking towards is making that
more understood.
Like we have a very complexhistory and it's hard to explain
(10:14):
that in just one visit orseeing one place right.
So it's important that in asmany public spaces as possible,
you have some representation ofthe community that it's in right
.
Because you can't just say, oh,this is Cleveland, right,
because that's that Cleveland'smade up of a lot of smaller
pieces and people, and you know.
(10:36):
So I would say it's just veryimportant that public art or
public spaces are expressive,and you know, some places do
that really really well.
I am thinking about Wendy Park,obviously, as that example,
because now you have this bigpiece of art there that says
(10:56):
okay, here's something that wewant you to look at our lake.
I would also throw in there, too, like public square downtown,
as that you know as an example,to say you know there's
something that people neededthat you know.
As an example, to say you knowthere's something that people
needed, who you know.
A lot of residents didn't havea place to gather downtown and
now they have creating a placethat was welcoming to families
(11:16):
and has food and it hasprogramming and really trying to
do that, and I know that LandStudio led that project before
my time.
Diane Bickett (11:24):
Very good.
What would you like to see interms of designing public spaces
that honor Cleveland'sindustrial past?
If you had a great big budget,what type of elements would you
like to see incorporated?
Maci Nelson (11:41):
I would really like to see the reuse of certain
materials okay, like uh, onesthat are local, or to save them
from the dump right to to not oh, we're all about creative reuse
.
Yes, exactly um to, to put inthe effort to uh and if you said
big budget, right, becausethose things make like that
reuse takes uh time and money um, to reuse a lot of our I think
(12:04):
a lot of our brick material.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Okay, would be really cool to see.
Maci Nelson (12:08):
Like polished up.
Also, we have one of the oldestwooden streets ever Tesla Court
.
Yeah, tesla Court and not thatI.
I don't know, actually, all ofthe details that go into that,
but I do think there's somethingabout using wooden materials in
an urban area that like led upto our industrial age.
Diane Bickett (12:29):
Yeah, how about steel too?
Yeah.
Maci Nelson (12:38):
We can incorporate steel, that in a way to honor
the past of the industrial, youknow, yeah, our industrial past.
I'm wondering if we couldhybridize the industrial past
with more like natural solutions.
So saying like yeah, there isthis, you know steel bridge.
Like OK, so what could thatturn into Right?
(13:01):
Like what does that turn into Agreen?
Diane Bickett (13:04):
Are we talking about the Veterans Memorial
Bridge?
Yeah, yeah, it's like, can weturn that?
Maci Nelson (13:08):
into something else .
That is, a balance of what wasback then and then also what
came before it, like what had todisappear in order for it to
exist.
And then how do we then blendthose two things together, Like
that's how I would like to seesome sort of hybridization two
things together, like that's howI would like to see some sort
of hybridization.
Diane Bickett (13:32):
I like that idea and I know the county's looking
for all sorts of ideas on how touse the space below the bridge
which was the trolley cars usedto go there.
I did the bridge walk this yearthe second time.
It was super cool, very cool.
I'm glad that you like that,yeah.
Maci Nelson (13:42):
Second time.
It was super cool, very cool.
Diane Bickett (13:43):
I'm glad that you like that.
Yeah, I noticed.
I read in the paper over theweekend that the county got
another big chunk of money totake down a lot of structures,
still more, more demolitionprojects.
This one they featured istalking about an apartment
complex in East Cleveland andthe Blight in East Cleveland is
(14:07):
well known and they interviewedresidents who had to look at
that and the buildings arecoming down soon and that's
great for them.
There will be an opportunitythere, a blank canvas, so to
speak, that could help bring thecommunity together and
(14:27):
revitalize the community.
Do you have any thoughts about?
You know what could be donethere?
I mean, I think, public park,community garden.
Maci Nelson (14:40):
I think like first and foremost, again going back
to the community voice, that Iwould want to hear what they
wanted, because I do know thathousing is so critical right.
That, even though we have a lotof blight, that doesn't mean
that people don't need thesespaces to be something that can
serve them in a way thatactually helps their needs and
(15:03):
their community.
In a way that actually helpstheir needs and their community.
Even though I'm like I'm alandscape person and I would
love more green spaces, I thinkthat there's a lot of
opportunity for green spaces tobe woven into, built like
buildings, okay, and and thingslike that.
So if housing is coming down,but it's still needed, right,
and they need to rebuild it ashousing, Can we?
(15:24):
also make that a green spacethat is incorporating housing.
That to me would be somethinggreat.
Yeah, play space for kids.
Diane Bickett (15:32):
Exactly right.
Maci Nelson (15:34):
How can it be more than one thing?
Diane Bickett (15:36):
Yeah, for Cleveland and East Cleveland and
some of our other cities thathave heat islands and East
Cleveland and some of our othercities that have heat islands.
And can we use landscapearchitecture to kind of address
our region's climate impacts?
You know, flooding, heatislands, loss of biodiversity?
(15:59):
Absolutely.
Maci Nelson (16:01):
Yeah, this is sort of the like the biggest thing
that I think Cleveland couldreally monopolize on using their
landscape architects to findnature based solutions for our
specific regions, like issuesright.
And you mentioned urban heatisland.
For those that aren't familiar,it's the idea that the sun is
(16:22):
heating up and basically storinga lot of heat into the
hardscapes, like our concreteand asphalt, and so it's making
it hotter in those spaces, butalso when the sun goes down,
that hardscape is just radiatingthe heat right back out into
the environment for longer.
So these areas are just hotterand will continue to get hotter
as our environment gets hotter.
(16:43):
Hotter and will continue to gethotter as our environment gets
hotter.
And so one of the solutionsthat's proposed for that is, you
know, more trees to create moreshading right To allow for that
area to be cooled right, butthat's also takes time Trees you
know, so that's just oneexample.
You need to cool off, but it'sgoing to take 20 years Correct
(17:04):
Right, so that's not exactly themost response like a responsive
solution, but it is a greatlong term solution.
So what we're finding out isthat we need to stagger a lot of
these implementations, a lot ofthese strategies to help what's
needed now and then what'sneeded in the future.
But the big challenge is weknow that nature-based solutions
(17:27):
work, but we've builtenvironments that are impeding
nature you know.
So it does take time, and ittakes testing too, to figure out
what works in different areas.
Yeah, so anything from a raingarden to reforestation helps
and that is how like we can dothat.
(17:49):
But we need more projects and,yeah, we need funding and we
need advocacy for that kind ofwork to be done.
Diane Bickett (18:02):
Buildings coming down creates tremendous
opportunity, and I'm so glad tohear that people like yourself
are talking about these thingsand working to implement them.
We need city planners focusedon that, and I'm sure they are.
Maci Nelson (18:12):
Yeah, we have them, you know we have them and
they're working hard to see allof this happen.
And yeah, that's good.
Yeah, we have a lot of greatpeople who are trying to blend,
you know, the present, the past,the future.
Yeah, what we need.
Diane Bickett (18:30):
Yeah, and trying to create a more livable urban
environment.
Yeah, want to talk about yourpodcast?
I guess we should.
So you are a nerd.
How are you a landscape nerd?
So you are a nerd.
How are you a?
Maci Nelson (18:44):
landscape nerd I say I'm very much more a nerd
than I am an academic because, Idefinitely enjoy learning and
researching.
Diane Bickett (18:56):
I'm not sure I know the difference between a
nerd and an academic?
Maci Nelson (18:58):
Oh, I think one is just like you know, one actually
.
Oh no, I also teach.
I was going to say one actuallyteaches at a college.
Oh, I should have added that tomy list of things that you do.
Um, I would say that a nerd hasa different kind of enthusiasm.
Like I, don't have a goal perse when I'm researching these
things, other than to maybeshare it with other people.
I'm not using it to necessarilyprove a point.
(19:18):
I'm just curious about it um soI try to cover anything that,
like, you might encounter duringyour day, to just showcase how
we're all connected throughoutdoor space, right?
So okay, I did an episode on,uh, a favorite place I visit
very often, the shaker lakesnature center, um, and that was
(19:38):
one of the first episodes I'veever done, and that was because
I was like, oh, I love thisplace so much, well, why?
Okay, now let's look at thedesign that made that place
enjoyable oh, I'm gonna checkout that episode what number
episode was that?
oh, it's number one your firstone, okay, cool and you have.
Diane Bickett (19:56):
You have, how many episodes are you?
Maci Nelson (19:58):
I think I'm like 50 something episodes really.
Diane Bickett (20:01):
So we're like right there together, but you
are 61.
Maci Nelson (20:04):
You're way more productive than this is.
I'm at 50 something after fouryears I keep to a schedule and
I'm retired, but um, but yeah,so that that's what I focus on,
um, and then I also have done anepisode on dungeon dragons
because, like, I love that game,but, as a designer, it's
talking about how you have anidea right and you're trying to
(20:27):
convince people around you thatthis is a workable idea right,
so I have an idea for a garden,I have to convince the client or
the homeowner that this idea isgoing to work, and then you
also believe that right.
So you do the same thing inplaying games or role playing
games.
So that's how.
Diane Bickett (20:47):
I would have never connected those.
Maci Nelson (20:49):
Oh, I know you are a nerd.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I love it.
I love it.
Diane Bickett (20:54):
What other topics do you cover, like that would
be of interest to EcoSpeakslisteners.
Maci Nelson (20:59):
Oh yes, so I talk a lot about how you can inform
the space around you, likethat's the whole reason I do
this is like to empower peopleto say like, oh, you have a
connection to your landscape andwhen you have that connection
you can kind of like change it,you can play with it, okay.
Um, one of the biggest thing,like one of my most favorite
(21:20):
episodes too, is about landscapeand music, and so, like when we
go out to these outdoorconcerts, right especially
during this time of year, howwe're experiencing these spaces
you can start to say, oh, Iunderstand, I love going to,
like cane park, you know, forfor a show or when someone does
a pop up show on a bridge Right.
I think the city is starting todo that, that you know you can
(21:44):
enjoy your outdoor spaces indifferent ways, and then it
helps people understand thevalue of these outdoor spaces to
stay green and nice and aroundand not to be, you know, decided
to be become something else,like this is a place for
gathering and like that's what Ithink.
Diane Bickett (22:03):
Um, and that's so healthy for us to just to be
outdoors anywhere, butespecially enjoying music or art
.
Um, it's good for our mentalhealth, it is.
Should we get into tip time?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Let's talk tips.
Diane Bickett (22:22):
Okay, well, is there anything else you want to
say about your podcast?
Before we move on?
I don't want to cut you off- oh, no, I appreciate that.
Maci Nelson (22:33):
I guess, really, if you're interested in just
nerding out about things thatyou didn't, I don't know, I
cover a lot of topics.
Another episode I'm thinkingabout right now is the lawn
episode, where we talk about,like, why we have lawns, you
know, and because I know a lotof people want to get rid of
their lawns, transform theirlawns, or they do like their
lawns.
They don't know how to like,how to justify it, right, like.
There's a lot in that episodefor your listeners I think that
(22:56):
they would enjoy, okay, but yeah, again, it's, it's just deep
diving into topics for for alittle bit of time with me and
yeah, okay.
Diane Bickett (23:06):
And you're a little different than this
podcast in that you're justtalking to you, mean that's, you
are you interviewing people too?
Sometimes sometimes, but mostlyit's just macy nerding out it.
Maci Nelson (23:19):
It starts off a lot of macy nerding out, okay, like
so.
There are a lot of soloepisodes and then you know other
nerdy people reach out and thenthey want to.
They want to talk too.
I admire that, because Icouldn't just sit at a
microphone and talk.
Diane Bickett (23:31):
I'm not that chatty but I appreciate people
that are Okay moving into tiptime.
So for the non-nerds out there,I guess, since you are
affiliated with the ClevelandSeed Bank and I think we have
some gardeners out there thatare listening can you recommend
(23:52):
any seed varieties that growwell here in Cleveland and are
adapted to our Northeast Ohioclimate, our changing Northeast
Ohio climate?
Maci Nelson (24:02):
Yeah, so I think it's important to note that with
the Cleveland Seed Bank, weencourage people to save their
own seeds right.
And grow what's around you andlike kind of what your neighbors
are already doing, becausethey're already adapting, know
as we speak, as they're goingthrough this process.
Um, I'm a, I love, but morenative than the more native oh
(24:22):
correct right, yeah so, um, Iwould say, like, my favorites
are bergamot, and so monarda, uh, what's that last one, minarda,
which is, which is wildbergamot's um botanic name.
Okay, yes, sir.
So so yeah, wild bergamot, uh,and purple coneflower those ones
(24:43):
um are like my favoritemilkweed, of course, is
something that we are allgetting to to know and love.
Um, yellow coneflower, I think,is one that doesn't get enough
enough.
Uh, love out there as some, asa, as a perennial that adapts
very well.
Um, one thing that I haven'tseen growing around here, more
(25:07):
so in southern ohio, which goesinto like the fruiting trees, is
our pawpaw oh, yeah, I I Wouldlove to see more pawpaws around
here.
Why, why not, I think, for likea crop and for food
sustainability?
Diane Bickett (25:22):
Because it's cool to say I think the texture is a
little weird.
I'm not sure I'm a pawpaw lover, but oh.
Maci Nelson (25:29):
I have full intentions on going to Pawpaw
Fest this year Athens, Ohio,Pawpaw Fest.
Diane Bickett (25:33):
When is it Usually in the fall?
Maci Nelson (25:35):
Oh yeah, I think it's September 13th through 15th
Coming up, but because I mean,with an adapting climate, right,
we are getting warmer and so alot of the varieties of trees
and plants that are doing wellin southern Ohio are going to
start to do well here.
Okay, so that's something tokeep in mind.
All right in mind um, that we'vegot, we've gone beyond a
(26:01):
certain point where we can't uh,turn back, certainly in certain
things, but that doesn't meanwe can't adapt right.
So that's why I say, like, fora tree, pawpaw, I'd love to see
a little bit more of that.
It's a lot.
I know it's a fruiting tree,but um, fruiting trees were
highly recommended from thepanel.
Diane Bickett (26:14):
At the celebration of seeds.
They were yeah, witch hazel wasrecommended.
Maci Nelson (26:20):
Oh yes, it was very popular.
I love witch hazel.
Yeah, thanks for bringing thatone up, yeah.
Diane Bickett (26:25):
Any flowering tree.
Maci Nelson (26:27):
Yes, yeah, they liked it for like, especially
because people like to have themright.
Diane Bickett (26:33):
Oh, they're beautiful.
Maci Nelson (26:33):
They're beautiful and I think that's important and
, especially as a designer,no-transcript of these things
(27:09):
look like in their naturalsettings and also see what they
look like in horticulturalsettings, so that you know
you're going to get a variety ofplants and variety of like
growth types, you know, and youcan make things really, really
beautiful there's resources outthere.
Diane Bickett (27:22):
There's greater cleveland, wild ones and the
pollinator project nature in mybackyard different organizations
that can help you decide, andat what's the plan and at the
cleveland seed bank, we do offerworkshops monthly to cover
different topics right around.
Maci Nelson (27:39):
You know, becoming more sustainable in your own
space whether that's compostingor learning how to cook with the
food that comes out of yourgarden, or saving your seeds,
like those are types of thingsthat are a resource that
everybody could use, like youknow, anyone who's listening
right now.
Diane Bickett (27:56):
Okay, well, we'll put links to those
organizations in our show notes.
And my final tip is follow ecospeak see le on instagram and
facebook and follow thelandscape nerd on.
Where are you on?
Maci Nelson (28:09):
instagram as well.
Diane Bickett (28:11):
Okay, on instagram I mean you never know
what beautiful friendships youcan create by reaching out to
some of your followers.
So, yeah, well, thank you, macy.
Maci Nelson (28:21):
This was fun, thank you so much we covered a lot we
did.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
month.
Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
become part of the conversation.
If you would like to send usfeedback and suggestions, or if
(28:47):
you'd like to become a sponsorof EcoSpeak CLE, you can email
us at hello at ecospeakclecom.
Stay tuned for more importantand inspiring stories to come.
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