August 6, 2024 • 34 mins
Jeff McNaught owns Edgewater Surf, a surf shop in Rocky River, where he sells a variety of new and used paddleboards, surfboards, and windsurfing gear. The shop also serves as an informal community hub for styrofoam™ recycling. Jeff started this program to provide a local recycling option for the bulky EPS (expanded polystyrene) found inside paddleboards and encasing appliances, TVs, computers, and other large items for customer shipment. This bulky, lightweight, and rigid foam plastic is not accepted in community recycling programs, and the closest recycler is in Dayton, Ohio.
Working to fill a community need, Jeff established an EPS drop-off location at his shop and installed a "densifier" with a Food Service Packaging Association grant. This equipment compacts the foam so it can be cost-effectively transported. With both collection and processing up and running, Jeff is now the only processor of post-consumer foam in the Cleveland area while he is still running his shop and getting out on the lake to windsurf.
Join us to hear Jeff speak about his vision for scaling this program and what he needs to make it sustainable. Jeff also speaks about what surfing is like in Cleveland and the surfing community and his partnerships with organizations like the Surfrider Foundation working to address problems of plastic pollution. Jeff has turned his passions into his business and is all in. We hope our community will support him.
Resources
Recycling at Edgewater Surf
Shop Edgewater Surf
About Edgewater Surf
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Diane Bickett (00:04):
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends and welcome backGreg.
(00:25):
While he was off on hishoneymoon, I was left to my own
devices and did a little solorecording and hiking with the
Cleveland Hiking Club.
It was super fun, but I'mreally glad to have you back
behind the soundboard.
Thank you, glad to be back, allright all right sort of Sort of
Grease was pretty cool, I'm sure.
(00:46):
So it's the end of July here inCleveland and we're talking
about surfing and styrofoamrecycling.
Now what do those two thingshave in common?
Well, that would be our guesttoday, jeff McNaught.
Jeff owns Edgewater Surf, asurf shop in Rocky River, where
he sells his handmade paddleboards, plus other new and used
surfing equipment.
It's also where Jeff started acommunity recycling program for
(01:10):
styrofoam.
Styrofoam is one of the mostchallenging materials to recycle
, but Jeff is all in.
Please stay with us and findout why Jeff has taken on this
endeavor and what our communitycan do to help support him and
keep this program sustainable.
So welcome Jeff.
Jeff McNaught (01:26):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me andcongratulations, thank you.
Diane Bickett (01:31):
So can I start with a surfer joke, a really bad
surfer joke.
Jeff McNaught (01:34):
Please.
Diane Bickett (01:35):
Okay, what did the wave say to the surfer?
Jeff McNaught (01:39):
I don't know what did it say.
Diane Bickett (01:40):
Have a swell time .
All right, there's some dadsobviously in the surfer
community.
Jeff McNaught (01:48):
Aging surfers.
Diane Bickett (01:50):
So please, let's just start Tell us about your
surf shop, which I didn't knowexisted because, well, I'm an
East Sider and I'm not a surfer,but I'm sure there are plenty
of people that will beinterested in hearing about it.
Jeff McNaught (02:02):
Yeah, you're not the only one that doesn't know
it exists.
So, yeah, we're tucked away inRocky River and it started out
as doing repairs and some of thebuilds of boards and got into
making paddles and fins out ofwood.
And then, since I am primarilyinto windsurfing, I decided I
(02:25):
would start selling windsurfinggoods as well, because nobody
between Buffalo and probablyabout Ann Arbor sells
windsurfing gear.
So we have a lot of water butnobody's selling gear.
Diane Bickett (02:37):
Interesting, and you're making some of that
yourself.
You're a woodworker.
Jeff McNaught (02:41):
I am, I am yourself.
You're a woodworker, I am, I am.
I've done furniture for as longas I can remember but then got
into making the wooden paddlesbecause I was really interested
in that as a craft.
And then it branched out intothe boards themselves and then
that eventually leaked into,linked into, the styrofoam
because paddle boards are madewith yes and I've never thought
(03:04):
about what's inside a paddleboard so right, there's our foam
.
Yeah right, um, like back in thevery early days it was a
polyester foam and then, becauseof a bunch of uh, supply chain
issues, eventually expanded.
Polystyrene started being usedin the probably mid90s and more
(03:27):
so into the early 2000s.
So a lot of my woodworking Imake with sort of upcycled wood
stuff from pallets and culledtrees from the metro parks and
things like that.
So, I try to avoid using sort ofthe commercially available
woods whenever possible.
So when I started makingsurfboards and paddle boards, I
(03:51):
wanted to use recycled foam,because there's plenty of it and
that is the primary corematerial of the boards.
And then they are wrapped infiberglass and epoxy and that
gives them their rigidity andstrength.
Diane Bickett (04:05):
Are you self-taught in terms of putting
these together?
Jeff McNaught (04:08):
Just me and YouTube.
Wow and yeah and just trial anderror.
There's a lot of boards sittingin the corner that probably
won't see the water again.
And we'll probably end up inthe recycling machine at some
point.
But yeah, it's a veryinteresting craft.
(04:28):
So it's an ongoing journey andtrying.
You know, there's an infinitenumber of different permutations
of making a board.
That can make it performdifferent ways, and everybody
has a different opinion on whatworks best.
So it'll be a continuingjourney.
Diane Bickett (04:39):
Wow, so you could recycle your own mistakes.
Jeff McNaught (04:42):
Yeah, I mean yeah , that is yeah, and some of the
boards that have been brought inthat were beyond repair.
If it's feasible and I'm boredat any point, I can rip the skin
off of them and either reusethe foam or throw it into the
recycling crusher.
Diane Bickett (04:59):
Okay, so can we talk terminology real quick.
So I started off by talkingabout styrofoam, and then you
mentioned polystyrene andexpanded polystyrene, which is
the technical terminology.
Yes, so styrene, what'sexpanded polystyrene?
(05:20):
How does that differ fromstyrofoam, what we think of as
styrofoam?
Jeff McNaught (05:23):
So, they are basically one and the same.
I guess I'm supposed to avoidusing the from styrofoam what we
think of as styrofoam.
So they are basically one andthe same.
I guess I'm supposed to avoidusing the word styrofoam because
it's trademarked by Dow, orsomebody that has a lot more
lawyers than I do, but expandedpolystyrene is basically in the
chasing arrows.
Is that what they call the?
triangle Number six yeah, numbersix, but it's gone through a
(05:46):
process where it's expanded tobe over 90% air encapsulated in
these sort of bubbles ofpolystyrene.
Diane Bickett (05:53):
Okay.
Jeff McNaught (05:54):
But styrofoam and expanded polystyrene are for
all intents and purposes thesame.
Diane Bickett (06:00):
So that's part of the reason why it's difficult
to recycle, because it's 90% air.
So to ship it anywhere, you'repaying to move air.
Jeff McNaught (06:11):
Yes.
Diane Bickett (06:13):
And to process it and to make it more dense so
you can ship.
It is what you're doing at yourshop, right?
So tell us about how you gotinto this and where you are now.
Jeff McNaught (06:29):
Yeah.
So from trying to garbage, pickas much polystyrene as possible
to make boards, um, I startedto realize just how much of this
stuff is out there.
And then you know, garbage dayis a is a boon for me, and I
drive down the street andthere's giant pieces of
polystyrene sticking out ofeverybody's garbage can.
Um, so then it, yeah, itstarted with looking into.
(06:54):
You know what is being doneabout this?
Because when you start to lookinto, well, how do I get rid of
it?
There's nobody anywhere whereyou can drop it off.
There's one place by Pittsburgh, styro Peck, and then there is
a facility close to Dayton and Ibelieve Dublin Ohio also has a
program for collection.
(07:15):
Dayton and I believe DublinOhio also has a program for
collection.
So, yeah, and then looking to,looking into then, okay, well,
nobody's recycling it.
But then why?
And then it gets into what youwere mentioning about how it's
all mostly air and it'sdifficult to transport, because
you are transporting 90% air.
(07:37):
I looked into, well, obviouslysomebody's recycling it.
And when you start to read aboutsort of the chemical makeup
itself and what it takes torecycle it, it actually has a
very low melting point of around210 degrees Fahrenheit, which
is around boiling water.
So if you were to hold a pieceof this over steam coming out of
(07:57):
a kettle, it would essentiallymelt and turn back into a
molasses type substance that youcould form into new polystyrene
products.
So it's really a sort of a lowenergy thing to recycle.
But most municipalities arecharged by the weight of their
(08:20):
garbage, so polystyrene meansnothing to them.
But at some point it has tomean something to somebody
because you know it gets crushed, essentially when it's at the
landfill.
But it's also.
If you were to crush it andjust reuse it, then you
essentially never have to makenew polystyrene again because
(08:42):
there's enough of this aroundthat you could just create a
loop of recycling and it's alsoeasier to my mind to recycle it
than it is to recycle beveragebottles and cardboard and other
things that are easilycontaminated, because if you get
something in a cardboard boxthat then has polystyrene in it,
(09:04):
that has a television in it,it's not really contaminated
with anything, it's perfectlyclean and can be put back into
the stream.
Diane Bickett (09:10):
Right.
So in theory anything isrecyclable, and polystyrene
included, but it just when itcomes down to the practicality
of a city, including it in acurbside program.
You have a 64-gallon cart, youknow.
Then you've got the reallybulky items that your new TV
(09:31):
came in.
You might have your fooddelivered.
Like what are those food placesthat deliver food in your you
know, green chef or whatever.
Jeff McNaught (09:41):
Yeah, those kind of things.
Diane Bickett (09:42):
Yes.
Then you have food packagingthat's contaminated with you
know food residue, which is alsoproblematic, you know like
takeout containers and stufflike that.
So in my prior career at theCuyahoga County Solid Waste
District we did try for a timeto collect polystyrene because
(10:04):
there were some organizationsover the years that were trying
to do what you know you'retrying to do in a similar
fashion.
You're trying to do in asimilar fashion, but then ran
into some of the problems of one, the contamination.
Two, the cost of transport.
Three, the lack of end market.
(10:25):
So who is your end market forthe material that you're not
using in your boards, thatyou're trying to ship to an end
user?
Jeff McNaught (10:37):
trying to ship to an end user.
Yeah, there are multiple buyersthat will then take the
material and do the finalprocessing to turn it into new
materials, and EcoDevelopmentdown close to Dayton, cincinnati
area, would be the closest andlargest buyer for this market
here, so that they will probablybe my buyer for materials, and
(10:58):
it's just a matter of gettingenough material together so that
it makes sense for transport tosend down to them.
So I need to be able to fill upan entire tractor trailer load
of densified material, which isat, or over, 30,000 pounds of
densified material.
Diane Bickett (11:16):
And you have a small shop, I do, I take it you
don't have 30,000 pounds layingaround.
Jeff McNaught (11:23):
Not yet.
Diane Bickett (11:26):
When did you start this?
Jeff McNaught (11:28):
I have densified 4,500 pounds A little over four
pallets of material to date, andthe Geauga Solid Waste District
was kind enough to take two ofthose pallets because I could no
longer walk through my shop.
And now I have two more palletsat my shop so I can once again
(11:51):
no longer walk through my shopand am struggling to find that
space which will allow me toexpand the program and store,
you know, store enough so I canget up to 30 and then also
collect a few more while thetruck is coming, you know, and
kind of be able to have thatloop, that loop of shipping and
receiving yeah, well, I want toget into what your needs are, as
(12:16):
I said earlier, to make thisprogram sustainable.
Diane Bickett (12:19):
But first let's talk about the densifier.
You, on your own, saw a needfor styrofoam or polystyrene
recycling in this area, and youwent and were able to get a
grant from somewhere.
I can't remember where you saidyou got a grant from.
Jeff McNaught (12:36):
Yeah, it was from the Food Service Packaging
Institute.
Diane Bickett (12:39):
Okay.
Jeff McNaught (12:40):
And I was not granted the first year I applied
, but then the second year Iapplied I was granted the funds
for a densifier.
Diane Bickett (12:47):
That's great and explain what the densifier is
and does does.
Jeff McNaught (13:00):
It looks like a snowblower turned on its end and
it has a, an auger similar towhat a snowblower has in it
which shreds the materials.
And then that auger then pushesthe materials into a narrowing
channel that has a hydraulicpress, so all the materials get
densified into a continuous logthat is seven inches by seven
inches and it is extruded out.
And then you're, you break itoff at whatever length fits on
(13:21):
the pallets.
So I'm like at 48 inches, I'mtrying to break it off.
It never breaks at 48 inchesand I end up with stuff all over
the place.
But I try, um, and then you canstack it on a 48 by 40 skid for
shipping.
Um, yeah, and so it was.
The program would not have beenpossible without that grant, um
(13:45):
, because the machinesthemselves are $40,000 plus and
I, the machine I got was on thesmaller end of what the company
Rooney produces.
So I was able to get that andthen, with my own funds, had to
do upgrading of electrical andget other equipment necessary to
make it happen.
Diane Bickett (14:04):
Wow, that's a lot to do all on your own, just as
a small businessman who just sawthe need to fix a problem.
So you have a lot ofout-of-pocket expense.
You have your time.
You have time spent away fromyour core business, which is
(14:25):
your surf shop.
What's the plan going forward?
What would you like to see?
I think I remember you sayingyou want to develop a commercial
route to pick up styrofoam frombig box stores, to try to
expand this on a larger scale.
Jeff McNaught (14:45):
Yeah, with larger institutions like hospitals,
doctor's offices, that generatea lot of styrofoam because they
get medications and other thingsin styrofoam and municipalities
.
If I can create a route that ona consistent basis, I can
collect and densify this foam,that my goal would be to get it
(15:08):
to a point where it'ssustainable financially and sort
of splintered off as its ownbusiness and hopefully get
somebody else to run it at somepoint.
But um, for the time being,yeah, it's.
It's up in the air to figureout whether a surf shop in
Cleveland or styrofoam recyclingis less profitable, but we'll
(15:29):
find out in short order.
Diane Bickett (15:31):
Well, recycling is a volume basedbased business,
so the more you have, the morethe financials work, I guess is
the way to say it.
Jeff McNaught (15:41):
Yeah, so at least for the time being, being the
only person doing it, it haspotential.
It's certainly scalable almostinfinitely.
Diane Bickett (15:50):
Yes, let's talk a little bit about your drop-off
program.
So you're located at 1328 LindaStreet is where the Edgewater
Surf is located.
Yes, and currently you aretaking small donations or
donations of styrofoam from thepublic.
Jeff McNaught (16:11):
Yes, so I have a collection shed on the north
side of the building at 1328Linda Street, so that people can
drop off clean foam items, andit's the rigid foam that we're
asking to be dropped off, and wealso do accept food packaging,
and that includes meat trays,egg cartons and other things,
(16:34):
the important thing being thatthey are, in fact, clean and can
be processed.
Diane Bickett (16:40):
Does that include egg cartons?
Yes yeah, okay.
Jeff McNaught (16:43):
Yeah, okay.
Diane Bickett (16:44):
When you say rigid styrofoam as opposed to
like the flexible stuff.
Jeff McNaught (16:50):
Yeah, the spongy stuff that bounces back when you
squeeze it.
I'm still not sure what that is, but I'm not supposed to use it
.
Diane Bickett (16:58):
No spongy stuff.
No spongy stuff, maybe it meltsat a different temperature or
something like that.
So I like how your drop-off binis in the parking lot.
It's got like a grass skirt.
It looks very Hawaii.
Jeff McNaught (17:14):
Yeah, we kind of spiced it up for a fundraiser
recently for the Surf RiderFoundation, which their cause
definitely dovetails with whatwe're trying to do.
So we kind of tiki-ed up theplace and had some grass and
tiki heads and other things tomake it festive.
Diane Bickett (17:35):
I like that alliance with the Surfrider
Foundation.
I noticed on Sunday you had, orthey were, doing some type of a
bar crawl to raise money fortheir organization and they met
at your shop.
Jeff McNaught (17:49):
Yeah, and about once a month they do a beach
cleanup locally at one of thebeaches and it rotates and you
get 20 or so people out therepicking up garbage off of the
beach and hopefully making itbetter than when they came.
Diane Bickett (18:02):
Love it.
Love it as a surfer.
What are you seeing out there?
Are you seeing a lot of plasticdebris in the water when you're
paddling?
Jeff McNaught (18:11):
Yeah, it is a lot of tiny pieces of the
polystyrene foam really is alarge, large bit of it.
That and the little cigarette.
Greg Rotuno (18:22):
Oh, the wood, the plastic tips for black and white
.
Jeff McNaught (18:25):
Yeah, right, exactly, those are everywhere
yeah.
Greg Rotuno (18:28):
If you walk Edgewater Beach, they're just in
the sand?
Jeff McNaught (18:30):
Yeah, everywhere.
Greg Rotuno (18:31):
You can't go 10 feet without finding one.
Jeff McNaught (18:33):
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (18:33):
I think that's just kind of a Cleveland thing.
The cigarette tips.
Greg Rotuno (18:38):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
I've never seen anyone use them, I just see them all over the
sand.
Jeff McNaught (18:43):
Yeah, it's pervasive though.
Diane Bickett (18:47):
I read today that the Clean Water Alliance put
this out, which we interviewedthem in episode 21.
But anyway, they put somethingout today that said USA Today
just awarded Lake Erie the titleof number one lake in the US,
touting that it's the mostbiodiverse of all the Great
(19:09):
Lakes.
So we have to do a lot toprotect it, and certainly
creating more recyclingopportunities and awareness of
plastic pollution is somethingthat surely helps.
Jeff McNaught (19:22):
It's the shallowest of the Great Lakes,
but it has the greatestbiodiversity.
Diane Bickett (19:26):
That's what they had in their press release.
Greg Rotuno (19:27):
All right.
Diane Bickett (19:29):
And it's the most digitally connected lake on the
globe.
What does that mean?
Greg Rotuno (19:37):
All the fish are on Instagram, right Nice.
Jeff McNaught (19:41):
All of the different species of creatures.
Diane Bickett (19:42):
I'm going to have to go back and re-listen to
episode 21, because they put themonitoring stations out around
the lake and that's how theyhelp monitor the water quality
and everything like that.
Jeff McNaught (19:55):
I want to see a hellbender salamander with an
iPhone.
Diane Bickett (20:00):
So what do you want people to know about
surfing in Cleveland?
It's not like a big surfingarea, I mean it doesn't come to
mind immediately, but then yousee pictures of people out in
the middle of winter in theirsurfboards and their wetsuits.
Jeff McNaught (20:12):
Yeah, so that's one of the tricks of it is that
the weather, energy and thewinds necessary to get surfable
waves.
You're going to get morenortherly winds from the weather
systems during the winter, thelate fall and winter, so there's
a fine line between gettingthat weather and there not being
(20:36):
ice chunks in the water,because then you know even if
you're craziest you probablydon't want to be out there and
it is.
It's just sort of it's a thingthat exists, I think, is the
first thing to be out there.
Um, and it is.
It's just sort of it's a thingthat exists, I think, is the
first thing to let people know.
And then, uh, just beyond that,that it's, it's a tight knit
community, obviously, becausemost of the folks that are doing
(20:56):
it know each other, becauseit's not exactly the most
popular thing and if, if you seethe same dozen people out there
every time there's a good swellcoming in, then you're going to
get to know each other.
And and there's also a a prettyvibrant but small community of
windsurfers and that's primarilywhat I do is windsurfing and,
uh, and it's a thing and it'sand it's a lot of fun.
(21:18):
And I think you know the morepeople that get into things like
that, be it it paddle boarding,wind surfing or prone surfing,
as they call it then you do getmore eyes on the water and it
becomes more of a concern, as itbecomes something that you want
to put your body in.
Diane Bickett (21:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff McNaught (21:40):
Like it being clean matters a lot more when
it's in your ears, in your mouthall those things.
So it hopefully it doesincrease that awareness and
certainly the paddleboardingcommunity has grown
substantially over the years andI think that the a lot of the
same folks that that are avidpaddleboarders are part of that
surf rider foundation.
(22:01):
So it, you know, it does kindof bring all of that together
with the environmental awarenessand act, more importantly,
environmental action with peopleout cleaning things up.
Diane Bickett (22:12):
Is there a spot you especially like to surf?
You go out at Edgewater orHuntington, or do you have a
favorite location?
Jeff McNaught (22:20):
Yeah, for the prone surfing, the Edgewater
Park side is the primary areawhere surfing takes place and
then there are, depending on howthe winds are going and the
swell direction and things likethat, huntington is an option
and then out in Lorain there'salso spots and folks will drive
(22:41):
out to Presque Isle inPennsylvania on a westerly wind
in Pennsylvania on a westerlywind, and for me for windsurfing
it's Wendy Park, because withthe primarily onshore winds,
because with any of these sportsreally, if you get into trouble
, if you're windsurfing andsomething goes wrong, you don't
(23:02):
want to have an offshore breezeunless you have Canadian dollars
in your pocket.
So at wendy park you can havethese onshore significant winds
from the north, but there's alsoa break wall about a quarter
mile out, so the wave action isdepleted but the wind continues.
So you have a relatively smoothwater surface to sail on, but
(23:25):
then you have the winds thatenable that makes it great for
kayaking yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,I see people every now and then
when surfing yeah, yeah, there'sa, there's a group that goes
like every friday and there'syeah, how do you get into that,
like, how do you try?
Greg Rotuno (23:40):
I always wonder that, because I am a trier of
hobbies and like how do you?
Decide that, like this, issomething I could do well, that
was sort of.
Jeff McNaught (23:47):
The difficult thing is when I decided that was
going to be a thing for me Iwas like okay so I started
looking for equipment.
So I'm like, well, I'll just getthe equipment and figure it out
.
Right, but most of the equipmentthat you can find on
marketplace or anywhere else isusually older late 80s, early
90s slalom gear which is sort ofrace-oriented very small boards
(24:09):
, large sails that are difficultto haul out of the water and
unless you're ready to get up onthat board and go 15, 20 miles
an hour right out of the get-go,they're useless to folks
learning.
So I ended up having to go tothe Outer Banks and then Florida
and take lessons there and thenalso get my equipment there
(24:30):
because they're like, okay,you're learning, this is the
equipment you need.
And I was like, wow, this lookscompletely different than
anything I've seen in Cleveland.
So part of my hope is that withthe shop that I have now, is
that because I can teach lessonsfor windsurfing, I can give
people guidance and then alsohave used a new equipment to say
(24:52):
, okay, this is what you need toget learning and actually have
a chance of enjoying yourselfinstead of just being wildly
frustrated and kind of driftingaround in anger.
Diane Bickett (25:02):
There you go, Greg, your next sport.
Jeff McNaught (25:06):
I like anything that is equipment intensive.
I just got into fly fishinglike two years ago.
That's a good one, maybe scubadiving.
Greg Rotuno (25:16):
I have said that my next would either be scuba
diving or flying, but maybe it'swindsurfing.
Jeff McNaught (25:24):
I support that choice, or all three, or all
three If I know you, it'sprobably all three.
Yes, I need to One for eachseason.
Diane Bickett (25:31):
So tell us about.
I want to touch on some more ofyour community partners and
sort of what your ask is for thecommunity to try to keep this
going.
I understand from the ClevelandHeights Green team that you're
working on some type of acollection partnership with them
(25:52):
.
Are you at liberty to spellthat out right now, or is that
still too new?
Jeff McNaught (25:58):
No, I think it's going to move forward.
I think it's going to take someform similar to what I've done
with Oberlin, in that it wouldbe like a um, a Saturday morning
event, where it would be sortof one of those three hour drop
off periods like they have for,you know, computers and
hazardous goods and things likethat Um, to get sort of get the
(26:20):
word out there, gauge interestand see what can happen and then
from there hopefully createsomething more permanent where,
okay, there can be a permanentcollection site and then I go
pick up weekly from somethinglike that and I do have
discussions going with othergroups, some private
institutions for that same typeof thing where it would be sort
(26:45):
of a collection site that theyhost Hopefully give me some sort
of funding to do the collectionso that I can pay for the
collection portion of it,because the money that is
available for the densifiedmaterials doesn't even really
cover the time and effort thatgoes into the densification and
(27:10):
stacking and all the otherthings that go on.
I think I've estimated that youcould pay somebody probably
about $2.30 an hour and breakeven, which probably isn't going
to be a real quick sell foranybody that's looking for
employment, but if you're outthere, it's available.
Anybody that's looking foremployment, but if you're out
there, it's available.
(27:30):
So yeah, getting those sorts ofthings going and then, at the
same time, trying to get supportfrom either local governments
or a private institution thathas space available that we can
use to stage the densifiedpallets prior to them being
collected from the processor.
Diane Bickett (27:50):
So a truckload quantity of densified
polystyrene, how many pallets doyou estimate would fit?
30, 40?
Jeff McNaught (27:59):
So yeah, I'm looking to get space for 30
pallets and then room to movearound those pallets so that
they can be that's not in yourshop right, so I estimate that
something just sub 1000 squarefeet would be what is necessary,
and hopefully with access to aloading dock, so that the
(28:23):
pallets can then be easilywheeled onto a truck and sent on
their way.
Diane Bickett (28:32):
That's not a terribly large space for someone
to consider donating.
Jeff McNaught (28:33):
That's what I thought.
Diane Bickett (28:34):
Until you start asking right.
Jeff McNaught (28:37):
Yeah, and I've been looking at it ever since
this became a thought, and itwas like before I got the
Densifier, before I started theprogram.
I've been looking and asking,and looking and asking and
somewhere in my naivete Ithought that would be the
easiest thing, because peoplewould look at how amazingly
awesome this is and be like wowyeah, we'll give you space.
(28:59):
You know we've got space overhere in our warehouse.
And look at this great thingyou're doing, and, and, as Rocky
river or whatever municipalityit happens to be, try to look at
the fact that it's offsettingsome of their garbage collection
.
Diane Bickett (29:14):
Yes.
Jeff McNaught (29:15):
So this, this is material that they no longer
have to deal with, and hopefullyit's kind of a symbiotic
relationship with somebody, andand so the the search continues
for that space.
But if anybody does have spaceavailable and is willing to
offer it, that would befantastic.
Diane Bickett (29:33):
I think it would be really cool if someone
listening to this podcastcontacted you to make that offer
.
Meanwhile, there is afundraising tab on your website
where people can make donationsto try to help keep this going
as well.
Jeff McNaught (29:49):
Yes, there is a GoFundMe link that is out there
for anyone that wants to offerup a little bit of financial
assistance to keep this goinguntil we can get it to a point
where it's self-sustaining,hopefully.
Diane Bickett (30:03):
Hopefully, yes, hopefully, yes, absolutely.
Jeff McNaught (30:06):
It must happen.
Diane Bickett (30:08):
Yeah, you have a lot invested.
I mean, when did you start this?
A couple years ago.
Jeff McNaught (30:13):
Yeah, it was two, two and a half or three years
ago that I first started tryingto do it, and then a year a
little less than a year ago, Itook a leave of absence from my
job at the time to try and getthe program running.
I didn't have it up and runningby the end of my leave of
absence, so I quit my jobaltogether to focus on that.
(30:37):
And here we are so what couldpossibly go wrong?
Diane Bickett (30:44):
Let's help Jeff out to make this sustainability
sustainable.
That's to make thissustainability.
That's my ploy.
That's my ploy I like food too,so yeah I might buy some of
that you can't just eat peachesfrom your peach tree.
Jeff McNaught (30:55):
No, the program is up and running and uh, any
support that can be offered ismuch appreciated and, at the
very least, if you have foam,you can always drop it by on
Linda Street.
Diane Bickett (31:06):
What are?
Jeff McNaught (31:06):
your hours.
I am there noon to five prettymuch every day, if not earlier,
and the foam can be dropped offat any time because the
collection shed is out in theparking lot.
But if you come by during shophours, by all means come in and
say hello.
Diane Bickett (31:22):
Great, and don't overwhelm him with tons and tons
of stuff.
Jeff McNaught (31:29):
Yeah, there are folks that have been saving it
for a long time and then, whenthey hear about me, they're like
oh great, my entire garage cannow be emptied of the foam I've
been saving.
Diane Bickett (31:35):
Yeah, we know the types, and then there's
recycling guidelines too on yourwebsite for more information
about what types of styrofoamwhat we mean by- EPS expanded
pound styrofoam.
I'm going to get a lawsuit.
I keep saying styrofoam.
Jeff McNaught (31:53):
I know right, Dow is listening and there is also
a little placard on thecollection site with a reminder
of what we're looking for andwhatnot, Although it does say on
there that we don't collectpool noodles.
But I think I'm going tobacktrack on that one and say
bring pool noodles.
Diane Bickett (32:12):
I don't know, they're kind of squishy, I know,
but you can use them for otherstuff.
Okay, yeah.
Jeff McNaught (32:18):
Those aren't being recycled.
I just want pool noodlesbecause they're fun.
Diane Bickett (32:23):
I can see the rabbit hole that got you into
this situation?
Greg Rotuno (32:25):
Yeah, right Be, I can see the rabbit hole that got
you into this situation?
Jeff McNaught (32:27):
Yeah right, yeah right.
Be careful what you wish forright, oh, my goodness.
Diane Bickett (32:30):
Well, I got one final tip for would-be surfers
out there is check the beachadvisories on the sewer district
website before you go out.
I noticed that the.
Paris Olympics are going on.
They had to hold off thetriathlons.
Was it the triathlons?
Anyway, the swimming events inthe Seine River, because of E
(32:51):
coli, because of all the rainsthey've been having, so that
happens here too.
Jeff McNaught (32:55):
Yes, we were just discussing that this morning
because a friend of mine was outyesterday and noticed the sign
when he got back on shore.
Diane Bickett (33:02):
Oh no, Go home fast.
Jeff McNaught (33:04):
Yeah, take a really hot shower.
Yeah, brush your teeth.
Diane Bickett (33:09):
Okay, can I end with one last dad surfing joke?
Oh, please, okay.
Why do surfers eat cold food?
Jeff McNaught (33:18):
I don't know.
Because, they hate microwaves.
Oh yeah, that took me a minutetoo, that's good, that's good.
Diane Bickett (33:26):
Thanks, that took me a minute too.
Greg Rotuno (33:31):
That's good.
Diane Bickett (33:31):
Thanks, Jeff, for joining us and for the peaches
and everything that you're doingfor sustainability.
I appreciate it, thank you.
Greg Rotuno (33:39):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
month.
Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
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If you would like to send usfeedback and suggestions, or if
(34:04):
you'd like to become a sponsorof EcoSpeak CLE, you can email
us at hello at EcoSpeakCLEcom.
Stay tuned for more importantand inspiring stories to come.
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends and welcome backGreg.
(00:25):
While he was off on hishoneymoon, I was left to my own
devices and did a little solorecording and hiking with the
Cleveland Hiking Club.
It was super fun, but I'mreally glad to have you back
behind the soundboard.
Thank you, glad to be back, allright all right sort of Sort of
Grease was pretty cool, I'm sure.
(00:46):
So it's the end of July here inCleveland and we're talking
about surfing and styrofoamrecycling.
Now what do those two thingshave in common?
Well, that would be our guesttoday, jeff McNaught.
Jeff owns Edgewater Surf, asurf shop in Rocky River, where
he sells his handmade paddleboards, plus other new and used
surfing equipment.
It's also where Jeff started acommunity recycling program for
(01:10):
styrofoam.
Styrofoam is one of the mostchallenging materials to recycle
, but Jeff is all in.
Please stay with us and findout why Jeff has taken on this
endeavor and what our communitycan do to help support him and
keep this program sustainable.
So welcome Jeff.
Jeff McNaught (01:26):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me andcongratulations, thank you.
Diane Bickett (01:31):
So can I start with a surfer joke, a really bad
surfer joke.
Jeff McNaught (01:34):
Please.
Diane Bickett (01:35):
Okay, what did the wave say to the surfer?
Jeff McNaught (01:39):
I don't know what did it say.
Diane Bickett (01:40):
Have a swell time .
All right, there's some dadsobviously in the surfer
community.
Jeff McNaught (01:48):
Aging surfers.
Diane Bickett (01:50):
So please, let's just start Tell us about your
surf shop, which I didn't knowexisted because, well, I'm an
East Sider and I'm not a surfer,but I'm sure there are plenty
of people that will beinterested in hearing about it.
Jeff McNaught (02:02):
Yeah, you're not the only one that doesn't know
it exists.
So, yeah, we're tucked away inRocky River and it started out
as doing repairs and some of thebuilds of boards and got into
making paddles and fins out ofwood.
And then, since I am primarilyinto windsurfing, I decided I
(02:25):
would start selling windsurfinggoods as well, because nobody
between Buffalo and probablyabout Ann Arbor sells
windsurfing gear.
So we have a lot of water butnobody's selling gear.
Diane Bickett (02:37):
Interesting, and you're making some of that
yourself.
You're a woodworker.
Jeff McNaught (02:41):
I am, I am yourself.
You're a woodworker, I am, I am.
I've done furniture for as longas I can remember but then got
into making the wooden paddlesbecause I was really interested
in that as a craft.
And then it branched out intothe boards themselves and then
that eventually leaked into,linked into, the styrofoam
because paddle boards are madewith yes and I've never thought
(03:04):
about what's inside a paddleboard so right, there's our foam
.
Yeah right, um, like back in thevery early days it was a
polyester foam and then, becauseof a bunch of uh, supply chain
issues, eventually expanded.
Polystyrene started being usedin the probably mid90s and more
(03:27):
so into the early 2000s.
So a lot of my woodworking Imake with sort of upcycled wood
stuff from pallets and culledtrees from the metro parks and
things like that.
So, I try to avoid using sort ofthe commercially available
woods whenever possible.
So when I started makingsurfboards and paddle boards, I
(03:51):
wanted to use recycled foam,because there's plenty of it and
that is the primary corematerial of the boards.
And then they are wrapped infiberglass and epoxy and that
gives them their rigidity andstrength.
Diane Bickett (04:05):
Are you self-taught in terms of putting
these together?
Jeff McNaught (04:08):
Just me and YouTube.
Wow and yeah and just trial anderror.
There's a lot of boards sittingin the corner that probably
won't see the water again.
And we'll probably end up inthe recycling machine at some
point.
But yeah, it's a veryinteresting craft.
(04:28):
So it's an ongoing journey andtrying.
You know, there's an infinitenumber of different permutations
of making a board.
That can make it performdifferent ways, and everybody
has a different opinion on whatworks best.
So it'll be a continuingjourney.
Diane Bickett (04:39):
Wow, so you could recycle your own mistakes.
Jeff McNaught (04:42):
Yeah, I mean yeah , that is yeah, and some of the
boards that have been brought inthat were beyond repair.
If it's feasible and I'm boredat any point, I can rip the skin
off of them and either reusethe foam or throw it into the
recycling crusher.
Diane Bickett (04:59):
Okay, so can we talk terminology real quick.
So I started off by talkingabout styrofoam, and then you
mentioned polystyrene andexpanded polystyrene, which is
the technical terminology.
Yes, so styrene, what'sexpanded polystyrene?
(05:20):
How does that differ fromstyrofoam, what we think of as
styrofoam?
Jeff McNaught (05:23):
So, they are basically one and the same.
I guess I'm supposed to avoidusing the from styrofoam what we
think of as styrofoam.
So they are basically one andthe same.
I guess I'm supposed to avoidusing the word styrofoam because
it's trademarked by Dow, orsomebody that has a lot more
lawyers than I do, but expandedpolystyrene is basically in the
chasing arrows.
Is that what they call the?
triangle Number six yeah, numbersix, but it's gone through a
(05:46):
process where it's expanded tobe over 90% air encapsulated in
these sort of bubbles ofpolystyrene.
Diane Bickett (05:53):
Okay.
Jeff McNaught (05:54):
But styrofoam and expanded polystyrene are for
all intents and purposes thesame.
Diane Bickett (06:00):
So that's part of the reason why it's difficult
to recycle, because it's 90% air.
So to ship it anywhere, you'repaying to move air.
Jeff McNaught (06:11):
Yes.
Diane Bickett (06:13):
And to process it and to make it more dense so
you can ship.
It is what you're doing at yourshop, right?
So tell us about how you gotinto this and where you are now.
Jeff McNaught (06:29):
Yeah.
So from trying to garbage, pickas much polystyrene as possible
to make boards, um, I startedto realize just how much of this
stuff is out there.
And then you know, garbage dayis a is a boon for me, and I
drive down the street andthere's giant pieces of
polystyrene sticking out ofeverybody's garbage can.
Um, so then it, yeah, itstarted with looking into.
(06:54):
You know what is being doneabout this?
Because when you start to lookinto, well, how do I get rid of
it?
There's nobody anywhere whereyou can drop it off.
There's one place by Pittsburgh, styro Peck, and then there is
a facility close to Dayton and Ibelieve Dublin Ohio also has a
program for collection.
(07:15):
Dayton and I believe DublinOhio also has a program for
collection.
So, yeah, and then looking to,looking into then, okay, well,
nobody's recycling it.
But then why?
And then it gets into what youwere mentioning about how it's
all mostly air and it'sdifficult to transport, because
you are transporting 90% air.
(07:37):
I looked into, well, obviouslysomebody's recycling it.
And when you start to read aboutsort of the chemical makeup
itself and what it takes torecycle it, it actually has a
very low melting point of around210 degrees Fahrenheit, which
is around boiling water.
So if you were to hold a pieceof this over steam coming out of
(07:57):
a kettle, it would essentiallymelt and turn back into a
molasses type substance that youcould form into new polystyrene
products.
So it's really a sort of a lowenergy thing to recycle.
But most municipalities arecharged by the weight of their
(08:20):
garbage, so polystyrene meansnothing to them.
But at some point it has tomean something to somebody
because you know it gets crushed, essentially when it's at the
landfill.
But it's also.
If you were to crush it andjust reuse it, then you
essentially never have to makenew polystyrene again because
(08:42):
there's enough of this aroundthat you could just create a
loop of recycling and it's alsoeasier to my mind to recycle it
than it is to recycle beveragebottles and cardboard and other
things that are easilycontaminated, because if you get
something in a cardboard boxthat then has polystyrene in it,
(09:04):
that has a television in it,it's not really contaminated
with anything, it's perfectlyclean and can be put back into
the stream.
Diane Bickett (09:10):
Right.
So in theory anything isrecyclable, and polystyrene
included, but it just when itcomes down to the practicality
of a city, including it in acurbside program.
You have a 64-gallon cart, youknow.
Then you've got the reallybulky items that your new TV
(09:31):
came in.
You might have your fooddelivered.
Like what are those food placesthat deliver food in your you
know, green chef or whatever.
Jeff McNaught (09:41):
Yeah, those kind of things.
Diane Bickett (09:42):
Yes.
Then you have food packagingthat's contaminated with you
know food residue, which is alsoproblematic, you know like
takeout containers and stufflike that.
So in my prior career at theCuyahoga County Solid Waste
District we did try for a timeto collect polystyrene because
(10:04):
there were some organizationsover the years that were trying
to do what you know you'retrying to do in a similar
fashion.
You're trying to do in asimilar fashion, but then ran
into some of the problems of one, the contamination.
Two, the cost of transport.
Three, the lack of end market.
(10:25):
So who is your end market forthe material that you're not
using in your boards, thatyou're trying to ship to an end
user?
Jeff McNaught (10:37):
trying to ship to an end user.
Yeah, there are multiple buyersthat will then take the
material and do the finalprocessing to turn it into new
materials, and EcoDevelopmentdown close to Dayton, cincinnati
area, would be the closest andlargest buyer for this market
here, so that they will probablybe my buyer for materials, and
(10:58):
it's just a matter of gettingenough material together so that
it makes sense for transport tosend down to them.
So I need to be able to fill upan entire tractor trailer load
of densified material, which isat, or over, 30,000 pounds of
densified material.
Diane Bickett (11:16):
And you have a small shop, I do, I take it you
don't have 30,000 pounds layingaround.
Jeff McNaught (11:23):
Not yet.
Diane Bickett (11:26):
When did you start this?
Jeff McNaught (11:28):
I have densified 4,500 pounds A little over four
pallets of material to date, andthe Geauga Solid Waste District
was kind enough to take two ofthose pallets because I could no
longer walk through my shop.
And now I have two more palletsat my shop so I can once again
(11:51):
no longer walk through my shopand am struggling to find that
space which will allow me toexpand the program and store,
you know, store enough so I canget up to 30 and then also
collect a few more while thetruck is coming, you know, and
kind of be able to have thatloop, that loop of shipping and
receiving yeah, well, I want toget into what your needs are, as
(12:16):
I said earlier, to make thisprogram sustainable.
Diane Bickett (12:19):
But first let's talk about the densifier.
You, on your own, saw a needfor styrofoam or polystyrene
recycling in this area, and youwent and were able to get a
grant from somewhere.
I can't remember where you saidyou got a grant from.
Jeff McNaught (12:36):
Yeah, it was from the Food Service Packaging
Institute.
Diane Bickett (12:39):
Okay.
Jeff McNaught (12:40):
And I was not granted the first year I applied
, but then the second year Iapplied I was granted the funds
for a densifier.
Diane Bickett (12:47):
That's great and explain what the densifier is
and does does.
Jeff McNaught (13:00):
It looks like a snowblower turned on its end and
it has a, an auger similar towhat a snowblower has in it
which shreds the materials.
And then that auger then pushesthe materials into a narrowing
channel that has a hydraulicpress, so all the materials get
densified into a continuous logthat is seven inches by seven
inches and it is extruded out.
And then you're, you break itoff at whatever length fits on
(13:21):
the pallets.
So I'm like at 48 inches, I'mtrying to break it off.
It never breaks at 48 inchesand I end up with stuff all over
the place.
But I try, um, and then you canstack it on a 48 by 40 skid for
shipping.
Um, yeah, and so it was.
The program would not have beenpossible without that grant, um
(13:45):
, because the machinesthemselves are $40,000 plus and
I, the machine I got was on thesmaller end of what the company
Rooney produces.
So I was able to get that andthen, with my own funds, had to
do upgrading of electrical andget other equipment necessary to
make it happen.
Diane Bickett (14:04):
Wow, that's a lot to do all on your own, just as
a small businessman who just sawthe need to fix a problem.
So you have a lot ofout-of-pocket expense.
You have your time.
You have time spent away fromyour core business, which is
(14:25):
your surf shop.
What's the plan going forward?
What would you like to see?
I think I remember you sayingyou want to develop a commercial
route to pick up styrofoam frombig box stores, to try to
expand this on a larger scale.
Jeff McNaught (14:45):
Yeah, with larger institutions like hospitals,
doctor's offices, that generatea lot of styrofoam because they
get medications and other thingsin styrofoam and municipalities
.
If I can create a route that ona consistent basis, I can
collect and densify this foam,that my goal would be to get it
(15:08):
to a point where it'ssustainable financially and sort
of splintered off as its ownbusiness and hopefully get
somebody else to run it at somepoint.
But um, for the time being,yeah, it's.
It's up in the air to figureout whether a surf shop in
Cleveland or styrofoam recyclingis less profitable, but we'll
(15:29):
find out in short order.
Diane Bickett (15:31):
Well, recycling is a volume basedbased business,
so the more you have, the morethe financials work, I guess is
the way to say it.
Jeff McNaught (15:41):
Yeah, so at least for the time being, being the
only person doing it, it haspotential.
It's certainly scalable almostinfinitely.
Diane Bickett (15:50):
Yes, let's talk a little bit about your drop-off
program.
So you're located at 1328 LindaStreet is where the Edgewater
Surf is located.
Yes, and currently you aretaking small donations or
donations of styrofoam from thepublic.
Jeff McNaught (16:11):
Yes, so I have a collection shed on the north
side of the building at 1328Linda Street, so that people can
drop off clean foam items, andit's the rigid foam that we're
asking to be dropped off, and wealso do accept food packaging,
and that includes meat trays,egg cartons and other things,
(16:34):
the important thing being thatthey are, in fact, clean and can
be processed.
Diane Bickett (16:40):
Does that include egg cartons?
Yes yeah, okay.
Jeff McNaught (16:43):
Yeah, okay.
Diane Bickett (16:44):
When you say rigid styrofoam as opposed to
like the flexible stuff.
Jeff McNaught (16:50):
Yeah, the spongy stuff that bounces back when you
squeeze it.
I'm still not sure what that is, but I'm not supposed to use it
.
Diane Bickett (16:58):
No spongy stuff.
No spongy stuff, maybe it meltsat a different temperature or
something like that.
So I like how your drop-off binis in the parking lot.
It's got like a grass skirt.
It looks very Hawaii.
Jeff McNaught (17:14):
Yeah, we kind of spiced it up for a fundraiser
recently for the Surf RiderFoundation, which their cause
definitely dovetails with whatwe're trying to do.
So we kind of tiki-ed up theplace and had some grass and
tiki heads and other things tomake it festive.
Diane Bickett (17:35):
I like that alliance with the Surfrider
Foundation.
I noticed on Sunday you had, orthey were, doing some type of a
bar crawl to raise money fortheir organization and they met
at your shop.
Jeff McNaught (17:49):
Yeah, and about once a month they do a beach
cleanup locally at one of thebeaches and it rotates and you
get 20 or so people out therepicking up garbage off of the
beach and hopefully making itbetter than when they came.
Diane Bickett (18:02):
Love it.
Love it as a surfer.
What are you seeing out there?
Are you seeing a lot of plasticdebris in the water when you're
paddling?
Jeff McNaught (18:11):
Yeah, it is a lot of tiny pieces of the
polystyrene foam really is alarge, large bit of it.
That and the little cigarette.
Greg Rotuno (18:22):
Oh, the wood, the plastic tips for black and white
.
Jeff McNaught (18:25):
Yeah, right, exactly, those are everywhere
yeah.
Greg Rotuno (18:28):
If you walk Edgewater Beach, they're just in
the sand?
Jeff McNaught (18:30):
Yeah, everywhere.
Greg Rotuno (18:31):
You can't go 10 feet without finding one.
Jeff McNaught (18:33):
Yeah.
Diane Bickett (18:33):
I think that's just kind of a Cleveland thing.
The cigarette tips.
Greg Rotuno (18:38):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
I've never seen anyone use them, I just see them all over the
sand.
Jeff McNaught (18:43):
Yeah, it's pervasive though.
Diane Bickett (18:47):
I read today that the Clean Water Alliance put
this out, which we interviewedthem in episode 21.
But anyway, they put somethingout today that said USA Today
just awarded Lake Erie the titleof number one lake in the US,
touting that it's the mostbiodiverse of all the Great
(19:09):
Lakes.
So we have to do a lot toprotect it, and certainly
creating more recyclingopportunities and awareness of
plastic pollution is somethingthat surely helps.
Jeff McNaught (19:22):
It's the shallowest of the Great Lakes,
but it has the greatestbiodiversity.
Diane Bickett (19:26):
That's what they had in their press release.
Greg Rotuno (19:27):
All right.
Diane Bickett (19:29):
And it's the most digitally connected lake on the
globe.
What does that mean?
Greg Rotuno (19:37):
All the fish are on Instagram, right Nice.
Jeff McNaught (19:41):
All of the different species of creatures.
Diane Bickett (19:42):
I'm going to have to go back and re-listen to
episode 21, because they put themonitoring stations out around
the lake and that's how theyhelp monitor the water quality
and everything like that.
Jeff McNaught (19:55):
I want to see a hellbender salamander with an
iPhone.
Diane Bickett (20:00):
So what do you want people to know about
surfing in Cleveland?
It's not like a big surfingarea, I mean it doesn't come to
mind immediately, but then yousee pictures of people out in
the middle of winter in theirsurfboards and their wetsuits.
Jeff McNaught (20:12):
Yeah, so that's one of the tricks of it is that
the weather, energy and thewinds necessary to get surfable
waves.
You're going to get morenortherly winds from the weather
systems during the winter, thelate fall and winter, so there's
a fine line between gettingthat weather and there not being
(20:36):
ice chunks in the water,because then you know even if
you're craziest you probablydon't want to be out there and
it is.
It's just sort of it's a thingthat exists, I think, is the
first thing to be out there.
Um, and it is.
It's just sort of it's a thingthat exists, I think, is the
first thing to let people know.
And then, uh, just beyond that,that it's, it's a tight knit
community, obviously, becausemost of the folks that are doing
(20:56):
it know each other, becauseit's not exactly the most
popular thing and if, if you seethe same dozen people out there
every time there's a good swellcoming in, then you're going to
get to know each other.
And and there's also a a prettyvibrant but small community of
windsurfers and that's primarilywhat I do is windsurfing and,
uh, and it's a thing and it'sand it's a lot of fun.
(21:18):
And I think you know the morepeople that get into things like
that, be it it paddle boarding,wind surfing or prone surfing,
as they call it then you do getmore eyes on the water and it
becomes more of a concern, as itbecomes something that you want
to put your body in.
Diane Bickett (21:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff McNaught (21:40):
Like it being clean matters a lot more when
it's in your ears, in your mouthall those things.
So it hopefully it doesincrease that awareness and
certainly the paddleboardingcommunity has grown
substantially over the years andI think that the a lot of the
same folks that that are avidpaddleboarders are part of that
surf rider foundation.
(22:01):
So it, you know, it does kindof bring all of that together
with the environmental awarenessand act, more importantly,
environmental action with peopleout cleaning things up.
Diane Bickett (22:12):
Is there a spot you especially like to surf?
You go out at Edgewater orHuntington, or do you have a
favorite location?
Jeff McNaught (22:20):
Yeah, for the prone surfing, the Edgewater
Park side is the primary areawhere surfing takes place and
then there are, depending on howthe winds are going and the
swell direction and things likethat, huntington is an option
and then out in Lorain there'salso spots and folks will drive
(22:41):
out to Presque Isle inPennsylvania on a westerly wind
in Pennsylvania on a westerlywind, and for me for windsurfing
it's Wendy Park, because withthe primarily onshore winds,
because with any of these sportsreally, if you get into trouble
, if you're windsurfing andsomething goes wrong, you don't
(23:02):
want to have an offshore breezeunless you have Canadian dollars
in your pocket.
So at wendy park you can havethese onshore significant winds
from the north, but there's alsoa break wall about a quarter
mile out, so the wave action isdepleted but the wind continues.
So you have a relatively smoothwater surface to sail on, but
(23:25):
then you have the winds thatenable that makes it great for
kayaking yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,I see people every now and then
when surfing yeah, yeah, there'sa, there's a group that goes
like every friday and there'syeah, how do you get into that,
like, how do you try?
Greg Rotuno (23:40):
I always wonder that, because I am a trier of
hobbies and like how do you?
Decide that, like this, issomething I could do well, that
was sort of.
Jeff McNaught (23:47):
The difficult thing is when I decided that was
going to be a thing for me Iwas like okay so I started
looking for equipment.
So I'm like, well, I'll just getthe equipment and figure it out
.
Right, but most of the equipmentthat you can find on
marketplace or anywhere else isusually older late 80s, early
90s slalom gear which is sort ofrace-oriented very small boards
(24:09):
, large sails that are difficultto haul out of the water and
unless you're ready to get up onthat board and go 15, 20 miles
an hour right out of the get-go,they're useless to folks
learning.
So I ended up having to go tothe Outer Banks and then Florida
and take lessons there and thenalso get my equipment there
(24:30):
because they're like, okay,you're learning, this is the
equipment you need.
And I was like, wow, this lookscompletely different than
anything I've seen in Cleveland.
So part of my hope is that withthe shop that I have now, is
that because I can teach lessonsfor windsurfing, I can give
people guidance and then alsohave used a new equipment to say
(24:52):
, okay, this is what you need toget learning and actually have
a chance of enjoying yourselfinstead of just being wildly
frustrated and kind of driftingaround in anger.
Diane Bickett (25:02):
There you go, Greg, your next sport.
Jeff McNaught (25:06):
I like anything that is equipment intensive.
I just got into fly fishinglike two years ago.
That's a good one, maybe scubadiving.
Greg Rotuno (25:16):
I have said that my next would either be scuba
diving or flying, but maybe it'swindsurfing.
Jeff McNaught (25:24):
I support that choice, or all three, or all
three If I know you, it'sprobably all three.
Yes, I need to One for eachseason.
Diane Bickett (25:31):
So tell us about.
I want to touch on some more ofyour community partners and
sort of what your ask is for thecommunity to try to keep this
going.
I understand from the ClevelandHeights Green team that you're
working on some type of acollection partnership with them
(25:52):
.
Are you at liberty to spellthat out right now, or is that
still too new?
Jeff McNaught (25:58):
No, I think it's going to move forward.
I think it's going to take someform similar to what I've done
with Oberlin, in that it wouldbe like a um, a Saturday morning
event, where it would be sortof one of those three hour drop
off periods like they have for,you know, computers and
hazardous goods and things likethat Um, to get sort of get the
(26:20):
word out there, gauge interestand see what can happen and then
from there hopefully createsomething more permanent where,
okay, there can be a permanentcollection site and then I go
pick up weekly from somethinglike that and I do have
discussions going with othergroups, some private
institutions for that same typeof thing where it would be sort
(26:45):
of a collection site that theyhost Hopefully give me some sort
of funding to do the collectionso that I can pay for the
collection portion of it,because the money that is
available for the densifiedmaterials doesn't even really
cover the time and effort thatgoes into the densification and
(27:10):
stacking and all the otherthings that go on.
I think I've estimated that youcould pay somebody probably
about $2.30 an hour and breakeven, which probably isn't going
to be a real quick sell foranybody that's looking for
employment, but if you're outthere, it's available.
Anybody that's looking foremployment, but if you're out
there, it's available.
(27:30):
So yeah, getting those sorts ofthings going and then, at the
same time, trying to get supportfrom either local governments
or a private institution thathas space available that we can
use to stage the densifiedpallets prior to them being
collected from the processor.
Diane Bickett (27:50):
So a truckload quantity of densified
polystyrene, how many pallets doyou estimate would fit?
30, 40?
Jeff McNaught (27:59):
So yeah, I'm looking to get space for 30
pallets and then room to movearound those pallets so that
they can be that's not in yourshop right, so I estimate that
something just sub 1000 squarefeet would be what is necessary,
and hopefully with access to aloading dock, so that the
(28:23):
pallets can then be easilywheeled onto a truck and sent on
their way.
Diane Bickett (28:32):
That's not a terribly large space for someone
to consider donating.
Jeff McNaught (28:33):
That's what I thought.
Diane Bickett (28:34):
Until you start asking right.
Jeff McNaught (28:37):
Yeah, and I've been looking at it ever since
this became a thought, and itwas like before I got the
Densifier, before I started theprogram.
I've been looking and asking,and looking and asking and
somewhere in my naivete Ithought that would be the
easiest thing, because peoplewould look at how amazingly
awesome this is and be like wowyeah, we'll give you space.
(28:59):
You know we've got space overhere in our warehouse.
And look at this great thingyou're doing, and, and, as Rocky
river or whatever municipalityit happens to be, try to look at
the fact that it's offsettingsome of their garbage collection
.
Diane Bickett (29:14):
Yes.
Jeff McNaught (29:15):
So this, this is material that they no longer
have to deal with, and hopefullyit's kind of a symbiotic
relationship with somebody, andand so the the search continues
for that space.
But if anybody does have spaceavailable and is willing to
offer it, that would befantastic.
Diane Bickett (29:33):
I think it would be really cool if someone
listening to this podcastcontacted you to make that offer
.
Meanwhile, there is afundraising tab on your website
where people can make donationsto try to help keep this going
as well.
Jeff McNaught (29:49):
Yes, there is a GoFundMe link that is out there
for anyone that wants to offerup a little bit of financial
assistance to keep this goinguntil we can get it to a point
where it's self-sustaining,hopefully.
Diane Bickett (30:03):
Hopefully, yes, hopefully, yes, absolutely.
Jeff McNaught (30:06):
It must happen.
Diane Bickett (30:08):
Yeah, you have a lot invested.
I mean, when did you start this?
A couple years ago.
Jeff McNaught (30:13):
Yeah, it was two, two and a half or three years
ago that I first started tryingto do it, and then a year a
little less than a year ago, Itook a leave of absence from my
job at the time to try and getthe program running.
I didn't have it up and runningby the end of my leave of
absence, so I quit my jobaltogether to focus on that.
(30:37):
And here we are so what couldpossibly go wrong?
Diane Bickett (30:44):
Let's help Jeff out to make this sustainability
sustainable.
That's to make thissustainability.
That's my ploy.
That's my ploy I like food too,so yeah I might buy some of
that you can't just eat peachesfrom your peach tree.
Jeff McNaught (30:55):
No, the program is up and running and uh, any
support that can be offered ismuch appreciated and, at the
very least, if you have foam,you can always drop it by on
Linda Street.
Diane Bickett (31:06):
What are?
Jeff McNaught (31:06):
your hours.
I am there noon to five prettymuch every day, if not earlier,
and the foam can be dropped offat any time because the
collection shed is out in theparking lot.
But if you come by during shophours, by all means come in and
say hello.
Diane Bickett (31:22):
Great, and don't overwhelm him with tons and tons
of stuff.
Jeff McNaught (31:29):
Yeah, there are folks that have been saving it
for a long time and then, whenthey hear about me, they're like
oh great, my entire garage cannow be emptied of the foam I've
been saving.
Diane Bickett (31:35):
Yeah, we know the types, and then there's
recycling guidelines too on yourwebsite for more information
about what types of styrofoamwhat we mean by- EPS expanded
pound styrofoam.
I'm going to get a lawsuit.
I keep saying styrofoam.
Jeff McNaught (31:53):
I know right, Dow is listening and there is also
a little placard on thecollection site with a reminder
of what we're looking for andwhatnot, Although it does say on
there that we don't collectpool noodles.
But I think I'm going tobacktrack on that one and say
bring pool noodles.
Diane Bickett (32:12):
I don't know, they're kind of squishy, I know,
but you can use them for otherstuff.
Okay, yeah.
Jeff McNaught (32:18):
Those aren't being recycled.
I just want pool noodlesbecause they're fun.
Diane Bickett (32:23):
I can see the rabbit hole that got you into
this situation?
Greg Rotuno (32:25):
Yeah, right Be, I can see the rabbit hole that got
you into this situation?
Jeff McNaught (32:27):
Yeah right, yeah right.
Be careful what you wish forright, oh, my goodness.
Diane Bickett (32:30):
Well, I got one final tip for would-be surfers
out there is check the beachadvisories on the sewer district
website before you go out.
I noticed that the.
Paris Olympics are going on.
They had to hold off thetriathlons.
Was it the triathlons?
Anyway, the swimming events inthe Seine River, because of E
(32:51):
coli, because of all the rainsthey've been having, so that
happens here too.
Jeff McNaught (32:55):
Yes, we were just discussing that this morning
because a friend of mine was outyesterday and noticed the sign
when he got back on shore.
Diane Bickett (33:02):
Oh no, Go home fast.
Jeff McNaught (33:04):
Yeah, take a really hot shower.
Yeah, brush your teeth.
Diane Bickett (33:09):
Okay, can I end with one last dad surfing joke?
Oh, please, okay.
Why do surfers eat cold food?
Jeff McNaught (33:18):
I don't know.
Because, they hate microwaves.
Oh yeah, that took me a minutetoo, that's good, that's good.
Diane Bickett (33:26):
Thanks, that took me a minute too.
Greg Rotuno (33:31):
That's good.
Diane Bickett (33:31):
Thanks, Jeff, for joining us and for the peaches
and everything that you're doingfor sustainability.
I appreciate it, thank you.
Greg Rotuno (33:39):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
month.
Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
become part of the conversation.
If you would like to send usfeedback and suggestions, or if
(34:04):
you'd like to become a sponsorof EcoSpeak CLE, you can email
us at hello at EcoSpeakCLEcom.
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