Karli Taylor, PhD, is an award winning fitness educator and professional development speaker. Karli, the creator of BarreFlow, has authored more than 10 other accredited fitness courses. As an eating disorder survivor, she has recently become a strong and outspoken advocate for eating disorder awareness within wellness spaces.
Karli, with nearly three decades of experience, courageously shares her personal journey through an eating disorder and how it shaped her mission in the fitness world. We explore the often-overlooked prevalence of eating disorders among fitness clients and professionals and the critical need for mindful communication. Karli provides eye-opening examples of how even well-meaning comments can significantly impact clients' self-perception and mental well-being.
Join us for a crucial conversation aimed at fostering a healthier, more inclusive fitness industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Ella Go.
My name is Lisa.
Join me on the journey inhaving real raw and
uncomfortable discussions aboutfitness, health and everything
in between, because, let's behonest, this journey would suck
if we don't get our shittogether.
Welcome back, everyone to theElego Podcast.
(00:39):
My name is Lisa.
I am your host, so today'sguest is Carly Taylor.
Carly, welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So I met Carly at an empowerment conference and
actually I heard her story and Iwas just listening to how she
took what she has experiencedand how she's given back to the
fitness industry.
And it's almost a little taboowhat Carly is doing, but you'll
(01:11):
know why as we go along withthis conversation.
So, carly, obviously when wespoke I was like I have to have
you on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, I don't know if the fitness industry would
really think that I was givingback at this point.
Um, yeah, I've been in thefitness industry for 25 to
almost 30 years, I guess.
Uh, yeah, right, I've beenteaching group exercise,
personal training, but I'm amaster trainer, so I've written
certifications.
I travel all over the world andtrade shows teaching other
(01:41):
people to be personal trainersand group exercise instructors,
but the big piece of me is I'man eating disorder survivor and
over the years I noticed thatthere were so many people in my
industry that were dealing withthe same type of things not just
the students and clients, butthe professionals, the trainers,
the instructors and nobodytalks about it.
(02:02):
And now I'm talking about it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So, yes, you're definitely talking about it.
So let's take a step back here.
When you say those things, youhad a history of eating disorder
and then you're in the fitnessindustry, carly.
How does that happen?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
How does that happen?
I guess when I started myrecovery, I knew that I needed
to be more healthy, so I startedto really learn a lot about
fitness and wellness and dietand nutrition.
If I'm being honest which Ipromised that I will be from
that point on, when I realizedwhat I was doing, I wasn't doing
(02:42):
it for the right reasons.
I was probably learning thingsabout fitness and wellness so I
could manipulate the system theway I had been for a long time.
But the further I got into it,the more I realized that I might
be able to use what I wentthrough to help other people,
and if I could do that, thenthat makes it worth it in a way.
So when I started learning alot, I started sharing a lot,
(03:04):
just talking to people ingeneral, and I realized that
they were listening to me and Inoticed that the more I talked
about it, the better I felt andit just kind of snowballed.
I started as a personal trainerand a spinning instructor while
I was in college and Icontinued to do that all the way
through grad school and theneventually decided that I didn't
(03:25):
want to do what I had thought Ialways wanted to do and what I
had gone to school for.
But I wanted to be in thefitness industry and I've never
turned back.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So let me ask you this you mentioned how you are
like taking this experience andthen educating.
A lot of the listeners are likeokay, what is she educating?
So what exactly are you talkingabout, Besides the fact that
you're talking about your ownstory?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
we thought it looked for so long, like we always had,
this image of a person with aneating disorder was, well, I
don't know, kind of like me,right, a white, thin,
middle-class, straight, cisfemale.
(04:12):
And that's a lie.
There's so many eatingdisorders in so many ways that
they present themselves.
So, to really educate people,that you have no idea what the
person in front of you is goingthrough with their bodies, with
their eating, with theirexercise, all of that.
And then the second part istalking to fitness professionals
(04:33):
, people who teach group classes, who train clients, who coach
people and trying to help themunderstand the impact of their
words on their clients and onthe way their clients see their
bodies and themselves.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I follow you and I see your stories on Instagram
and some of the clips of youhaving a discussion about this
and even in the way yogainstructors talk a certain way.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So give that example, because when you said that to
me, I was like oh my God, Ididn't even realize that Yoga
instructors are the worst, and Ican say that because I am a
yoga instructor and I teach yogainstructors, so it's really
self-deprecation.
But when we learn we can dobetter.
Right, we have to understandthe things that we're doing and
admit that.
Yeah, we probably shouldn'thave said these things.
(05:22):
Something as simple as tellingsomeone they're going to hold
something for one breath andthen starting to tell a story
and keeping them for five or sixbreaths.
We're lying to them, we'rebreaking that trust that we have
and, as simple and as silly asthat might seem, there's a huge
power dynamic between aninstructor and a student and as
(05:42):
soon as we cross that line andstart to lie to them, we're
abusing that power and, whetheror not the student realizes it
in the moment, they feel thatdynamic shift and that's a big
thing.
And then just talking aboutpeople's bodies, so you know
saying something like in aseated forward fold, so when
you're sitting down with yourlegs stretched out in front of
(06:03):
you and you're reaching outtowards your feet, I have heard
numerous instructors saysomething like move the junk out
of your trunk or move thefleshy parts to the side.
And for some people that mightnot impact them, but for someone
who's very self-conscious abouttheir body, instantly that's
all they can think about.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
It's interesting that , even though you know, you go
through the, you know if youwant to become a personal
trainer, you go through thetraining and you learn the body.
And I noticed that they'retalking a little bit about the
psychology of training.
But yeah, it is very.
It literally is a blip.
It's such a blip but they don't.
(06:44):
They're not teaching them howto talk to people.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
No, not at all, and really it goes beyond personal
training in the fitness industry.
But I'm just trying to attackthat little small piece of how
we communicate but no, nobodytalks about that.
The behavioral modificationpart of it and it's huge.
I feel like the psychology partis bigger than the physical
part, Because if you can't getyour brain on track, then you're
(07:09):
definitely not going to getyour body on track.
Your brain comes first 100%,100%.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So do you feel like there is some responsibility or
accountability for those in thefitness profession when dealing
with people who have an eatingdisorder, or just in the way
they talk to people?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I think there's a huge responsibility.
I think that every singleperson is somewhere on a
spectrum of disordered eating.
There's intuitive eating on oneend and classified eating
disorders on the other end, andI really feel that most of us
fall somewhere on the spectrumand, as a personal trainer,
fitness professional, we havethe ability to push someone one
(07:49):
way or the other on the spectrumat any point in time, and
that's that should weigh on us.
It should weigh on us, but Idon't think that it does, even
with something.
When someone comes into you, ifyou're a coach or a trainer and
someone comes in and says I atea huge meal last night and I
need to burn it off, sometimesI'm going to say, more often
(08:13):
than not, an instructor or acoach will be like all right,
let's go, or I got you.
I know how you feel.
I do the same thing.
How about did you enjoy thatmeal?
Great, we're going to do theexact workout that we had
planned for today, and you mightactually feel stronger today,
having taken in excess calorieslast night, who knows?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's a game changer.
You know what you're talkingabout.
Is it?
Can I ask you this Do you getresistance from some people?
Oh God, okay, go ahead, tell me.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I get a lot of resistance.
You know I'm being toosensitive the whole snowflake
thing like I just need to grow aset.
No pain, no gain, all of thisstuff that people are weak and
they just need to toughen up.
When people say things likethat, all it says to me is they
(09:12):
haven't dealt with their ownstuff and they don't want to
deal with their own stuff.
And this is just easier.
It's easier to be that way.
It's harder to turn the lensaround and look in the mirror
and say, oh, I've said somethings I shouldn't have said.
I've probably hurt some peoplewith the things that I've said.
Even though my intentions werepure, even though I intended to
(09:34):
help them, I probably did someharm and I need to do better.
I always say if I could go back20 years and give my original
clients their money back, Itotally would.
But that takes a lot to look atyourself and say I screwed up.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
The ego, oh the ego.
Yeah, I can only imagine how.
First of all, I'm sure when youhave this discussion it's like
a deer in headlights, Like whatis she talking about?
But God, I got to say it is apower.
There is an imbalance of power,first of all, okay, and if
(10:09):
you're in the fitness industrytrainer, coach, whatever and the
mindset is definitely thecritical part, and when you hear
them say coaches and trainersand whatnot, you know I really
want this person to succeed,Like I want them to reach their
goals.
Well, if you really want tohave them to reach their goals,
(10:29):
then you need to start workingon the way you talk to them and
their mindset, and not so muchfocus on the other things,
because what happens, Carly, youknow what happens?
They come back, they go, theyfall off and they come back
because nobody freaking workedon their damn mindset.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, and they get frustrated, they feel defeated.
People come to us as fit prosto help them feel better than
they do, to feel empowered, tofeel like they have some agency
over their body, not to feellike a failure, not to feel
disappointed, not to feeldefeated.
And that's what ends uphappening and that will just
(11:10):
slide them further down thespectrum in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So let me ask you for a fitness professional.
Let's say they're listening tothis and they're like, oh my God
, I didn't even realize this andI want to be better.
So what are some of the thingsI mean?
Is there anything out there forthem to not only just listen to
you and get that aha momentlike holy shit, I've been
messing up here or been talkingin not the best way?
(11:38):
What else is out there for thatperson to level up, so that
they can learn how to speak topeople?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
There's not a lot.
There's not a lot out thereright now and, trust me, I'm
working on a whole bunch ofthings.
So there are resources, there'snot a lot of resources.
But what I will say is, whenyou're about to say something,
take a step back, think about isit helpful and is it kind, and
that's a really good start.
And then, past that, are youjust talking about the physical,
(12:12):
and what I mean by that is,when someone comes in personal
training, what's the first thingthat a trainer will ask a
client, a potential client?
First thing, they ask how muchweight do you want to lose?
Or what's your goal weight?
How about what's your goalPeriod?
It's not assuming that peopleare coming to you because they
want to change their appearance,because as soon as you assume
(12:34):
that they want to change theirappearance, you're assuming that
they're unhappy with theirappearance and you're projecting
your own bullshit onto them.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Carly, you just dropped the mic right there,
Girl you just dropped it.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's not a stand, or I would drop it for you.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh my God, when you just said that.
Can you just repeat that onemore time, because I literally
got the chills.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
You can't assume that their goal is to lose weight or
to change their appearance,because when you're assuming
that they want to change yourappearance, you're assuming that
they are not happy with theirappearance, which is honestly,
underlyingly saying that you'renot happy with their appearance.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, oh, my God, that's the narrative, right, oh?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
my God.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
That is definitely a golden nugget right there.
So, for someone who is a client, okay and how would you like,
what are some things that youcan tell them on how to talk to
their trainer and how to havethat discussion?
And should they like, shouldthey say hey, I don't really
(13:33):
like the way you just said that.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
They absolutely should.
They need to feel comfortablein the space.
Our first basic need is safety,and if we don't feel safe then
we will never achieve our goals,even if that goal is to lose
weight right, we might achieveit in the moment, largely
because we want to make ourtrainer proud how screwed up is
that?
But then we'll go back to ourown lives and go back to where
(13:58):
we were because we didn't feelsafe there.
So we're not going to staythere.
But yeah, and it's hard.
I don't expect clients to beable to do it easily.
It is hard because of thatpower dynamic but taking agency
over your own body, your ownlife, and saying please don't
talk to me that way, pleasedon't talk about weight with me.
(14:18):
I do not want you to weigh me,please do not measure me.
My goals are not weight related.
I have a trainer.
I'm a trainer who has a trainerand it took me a very long time
to find someone that I trusted.
And my first session with thistrainer I said I will not be
weighed, I will not be measured,I will not discuss my diet.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Wow, period, wow Period.
Yeah, it's the same thing wherethey're saying, even like I
have a daughter, and they'resaying that, well, first of all,
why do they have to weigh herevery time we go to the doctor?
What are we doing here and whyand I know her, she looks to see
that number and I know whatit's doing to her head because
she has shared it to me.
So I know what it's doing toher head because she has shared
it to me.
(15:01):
So I have to often say I don'tneed to weigh her, we're here
for a back problem.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Right.
If there's an issue andsomeone's sickly, they're losing
weight quickly.
There's some malnutritionproblem that you're trying to
figure out.
Absolutely put that kid on ascale.
They're not growing, it'ssomething like that.
That's actually weight related,but they go in for a cold and
(15:31):
they throw them on a scale andone of the things is why do we
pay so much?
Attention to weight Becauseit's easy to measure.
Hmm, why is BMI the goldstandard?
Because it's simple tocalculate period.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
BMI, the gold standard, because it's simple to
calculate period.
How should a trainer or coachhandle a situation where they
have a suspicion that thisperson has an eating disorder?
What is the responsibility ofthat coach?
Oh wait, let me take a stepback.
Are they responsible?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yes and no, as a personal trainer, a group X
instructor, a coach.
We are not psychologists, we'renot therapists, we're not
psychiatrists and we're notmedical doctors most of us.
It is not our responsibility todiagnose or treat, but it is
our responsibility to beconscious of it and not to make
things worse.
So if someone has an exerciseaddiction, if they have an
(16:19):
eating disorder and they'reoverexercising and they're
unsafe, if they're not taking inenough calories to perform the
tasks that we're asking them toperform and we continue to ask,
that is our responsibility, sowe can simply address things
like that.
You seem to be a bit tiredtoday.
Have you eaten enough?
I feel like your energy levelisn't where it needs to be.
Did you skip a meal today?
(16:41):
Feel like your energy levelisn't where it needs to be.
Did you skip a meal today?
Are you hydrated?
If you find that they have atendency to talk poorly about
themselves a lot or they'rebashing themselves a lot, bring
it up.
Is everything okay?
I've noticed that you're reallyputting yourself down a lot
lately.
Do you have someone you cantalk to lately?
(17:06):
Do you have someone you cantalk to, making it known that
you notice, that you see themand that you care consistently.
How are you?
What's going on?
Do you need to talk aboutanything?
Do you have a therapist?
Is there a team that can helpyou?
Not saying what's going on?
I'm going to help you becausewe're not qualified to do that,
but first making sure they'reseen and then, if it's that bad
(17:32):
that you really notice someone'slosing a ton of weight listen,
I don't know what's going onwith you.
I don't know if there'ssomething that you want to talk
about, something going on withyour health, but I have noticed
this.
Here are some resources thatyou might want to look into.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
It's not our job to diagnose.
It's not our job to say I thinkyou have an eating disorder,
because what that's going to dois either send someone into a
spiral or tell them that theyneed to lie to us, because
people with eating disorders andI say this because I am one we
become master manipulators.
We're able to lie about it andhide it and keep it from people,
(18:14):
and that makes it worse.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, and I'm thinking, you know, as you're
talking, like, let's say, thisperson says to them like look, I
have a history of an eatingdisorder.
Like what would they do?
Like I mean you're sayingthere's not a lot of resources
out there, I'm like what thehell am I going to?
How am I going to talk to thisclient?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
right, but try not to focus on the way their body
looks and don't talk about food.
What I would say to them isgreat, do you still have a
therapist and are you workingwith a nutritionist?
If they say no to either one ofthose things, I would say I
think that if you're starting anexercise program, you might
need to have more people on yourteam than just me.
These are some nutritioniststhat I would recommend.
(19:03):
Could you go back to your oldtherapist?
Did you have a good reputationor a good relationship with your
therapist?
Otherwise, here are a fewtherapists locally or online,
that I recommend that deal withthese issues, Not because I
think that you're in a bad spotnow, but when you do start to
exercise.
That could be triggering.
So I would like you to put ateam in place.
(19:23):
They don't have to do it, butyou put it out there.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
This is mind blowing, carly, like seriously.
I mean mind blowing in thesense of I mean, we know mindset
psychology and all of that, butmind blowing in the sense that
this is not being taught in thefitness industry, of all things.
Like I never connected the dotsand now that you're saying this
, I'm like there's nothing outthere that could potentially
help somebody going into thisfield to deal with something
(19:52):
like this.
Like this is a big, freakingdeal.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
It is.
Myself and a colleague wrote acertification for the MedFit
Network.
It's out there, it's online.
It's called Eating Disorderswhat Fit Pros Need to Know.
It touches on the basis ofeating disorders, but also some
Q&A and some basic interactionsand dialogue that you can use
with clients when they come toyou saying things like I hate my
(20:17):
thighs or I need to work outextra because I ate a whole
pizza last night, or I'm goingto brunch and I need to earn my
calories.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
That's good, all right.
Well, we're going to put someof that in the notes for those
of you who want to learn moreabout that.
So when you are doing these,having these conversations,
you're going out there, you'retalking to the masses like,
besides the education, and justletting them know this awareness
, what are your hopes in thelong run to occur?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
my largest hope is that the shame surrounding
eating disorders and disorderedeating will start to dissipate,
because these things they liveand they thrive in the shadows,
and the more we feel ashamed ofthings, the more we hide them.
And when they're hidden theygrow, and it's not until they're
seen and they're out there andpeople feel able to talk about
them, they become almostnormalized, that people start to
(21:20):
like themselves a little bitmore and not beat themselves up
for the smallest little thing.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I love that you're giving back.
I mean, I really do.
You took something that you hadto deal with you have a better
understanding than most becauseyou've dealt with it yourself
and then to educate.
Like God, I'm still mind blown,because who would have known
that?
Now we got to educate thefitness industry?
Who are talking about bodies?
(21:48):
I still can't believe.
You're the first person I'veever known to talk about this
that I know of.
I don't read it, I don't see it.
It's not something that it'sout there, which is why I wanted
you on here.
So I want to speak to not onlythe fitness instructors and the
(22:10):
coaches, but also the clients,the customers, to know that,
look, you have a voice and youhave every right to exercise
that voice.
And, yes, of all places, thisis the place where you can talk
about that, because you'retalking about your body and all
that.
So it's not.
(22:30):
Don't think, oh, this is notappropriate, this is not the
right place.
It is the right place to talkabout it.
I mean, where else are yougoing to talk about it, but
right here, where they'retelling you how to move your
body and that you got to loseweight in a certain way.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It's crazy, and not only with trainers and coaches
and group X instructors, butalso in social media, if you
look at your newsfeed and allthe things telling you that you
need to look a certain way andhave a certain body and do a
certain workout and drink acertain shake and all of these
things because you need to fitin a specific box, in a specific
(23:05):
shape.
And our clients, our students,are dealing with that every day,
all day.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, and you know, when we talked about their
accountability, you know we havegot kids watching this.
You know we got young womenlike watching this stuff and you
have to be responsible somewhat.
You know you can't just say,well, they don't have to watch
it, look, they're watching, theyare all over, they're watching.
(23:37):
It's easy to get, they arewatching.
Be better, be different.
I mean, how do you not thinkthat they're all watching this
and it can be detrimental to ayoung woman's mind?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
The flip side of that , or what people will say to
that, is well, that's on theirparents, and you know what A lot
of their parents aren'tequipped to deal with it either.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
A lot of their parents might be in the same
situation.
Right, they're burying theirown food issues and body issues
because they don't feel safetalking about it.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And when you don't deal with your shit, it comes
out later.
And if you have kids and youdon't deal with your shit.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
guess what?
They're going to pick it up.
Yep, absolutely, carly.
I love this conversation.
I'm sure I love that.
It's controversial, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It's not the most fun thing for people in our
industry to talk about and it'snot the easiest thing to think
about.
And the reason it'scontroversial, the reason it's
not fun, is because it requiresall of us to look at ourselves
and change our behavior, andthat's hard to do.
You know, I know a lot of thethings I talk about now I've
done.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And for me to say that I've done it.
That's the first time I did it.
It's like, oh God, it gives youthat like pit in your stomach,
but that's what growth is.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, and we're expecting these clients to
change their behaviors, and yetwe can't change ours.
Okay, how about?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So all right, Carly, what is next?
Where are you going?
I see you talking all over thedamn place.
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
What am I doing next?
Let's see Breaking news.
No one knows this yet.
I just signed on for the nexttwo years to be a Lululemon
ambassador.
I'll have them behind me nowworking on this mission.
So that's super exciting.
So this is the first publicplace that I've broadcast that.
So there's that I havesomething called a stayvention
(25:47):
coming up in June and it's fitpros from all over the world.
So it's a virtual convention.
So there's a movement,professional from Asia, and
there's people from all over theplace doing different sessions,
and I'll be talking about this,talking about the body
dysmorphia and the eatingdisorder spectrum and the fact
(26:11):
that, though you may not thinkyou have anyone in your class
who has an eating disorder,there's a good chance that you
do Wow, okay, yeah, all right,yeah, and I've got a few things,
a few things like that comingup and there's there's a book in
the works as well.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I can't wait for that , I guess.
Okay, so we're going to put allof this stuff on the you know
information on the show notes sopeople can follow you and get
ahold of you.
So where are you these days onsocial media?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So my Instagram.
There's a lot of underscores inthis.
It's underscore Carlyunderscore.
Taylor underscore.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Okay, so Instagram, where else are you?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I'm on Facebook as Carly Goring Taylor.
You can also find me under oneof my companies, so Barflow on
both Instagram and Facebook.
Okay, and you can find me asCar of my companies, so Barflow
on both.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Instagram and Facebook Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And you can find me as Carly G Taylor on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Okay, good, good.
Carly, I am so happy that youcame on here.
Drop some major gems.
Holy shit, Good shit here.
I mean really good stuff here.
You shared a lot of greatthings.
I mean really good stuff here.
You shared a lot of greatthings and I'm so grateful that
you're doing this work andopening the minds of coaches,
(27:26):
instructors in the fitnessindustry and it's not an easy
feat, I can only imagine but atleast you're talking about it
and you're not stopping, sothank you for that.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And thank you for being open-minded enough and
brave enough to talk about thesame things.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Not everybody will.
Thanks again for being a partof this and we'll definitely put
everything on the show notes.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Okay, everyone, and until next time bye.
Welcome to Ella Go.
My name is Lisa.
Join me on the journey inhaving real raw and
uncomfortable discussions aboutfitness, health and everything
in between, because, let's behonest, this journey would suck
if we don't get our shittogether.
Welcome back, everyone to theElego Podcast.
(00:39):
My name is Lisa.
I am your host, so today'sguest is Carly Taylor.
Carly, welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So I met Carly at an empowerment conference and
actually I heard her story and Iwas just listening to how she
took what she has experiencedand how she's given back to the
fitness industry.
And it's almost a little taboowhat Carly is doing, but you'll
(01:11):
know why as we go along withthis conversation.
So, carly, obviously when wespoke I was like I have to have
you on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, I don't know if the fitness industry would
really think that I was givingback at this point.
Um, yeah, I've been in thefitness industry for 25 to
almost 30 years, I guess.
Uh, yeah, right, I've beenteaching group exercise,
personal training, but I'm amaster trainer, so I've written
certifications.
I travel all over the world andtrade shows teaching other
(01:41):
people to be personal trainersand group exercise instructors,
but the big piece of me is I'man eating disorder survivor and
over the years I noticed thatthere were so many people in my
industry that were dealing withthe same type of things not just
the students and clients, butthe professionals, the trainers,
the instructors and nobodytalks about it.
(02:02):
And now I'm talking about it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So, yes, you're definitely talking about it.
So let's take a step back here.
When you say those things, youhad a history of eating disorder
and then you're in the fitnessindustry, carly.
How does that happen?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
How does that happen?
I guess when I started myrecovery, I knew that I needed
to be more healthy, so I startedto really learn a lot about
fitness and wellness and dietand nutrition.
If I'm being honest which Ipromised that I will be from
that point on, when I realizedwhat I was doing, I wasn't doing
(02:42):
it for the right reasons.
I was probably learning thingsabout fitness and wellness so I
could manipulate the system theway I had been for a long time.
But the further I got into it,the more I realized that I might
be able to use what I wentthrough to help other people,
and if I could do that, thenthat makes it worth it in a way.
So when I started learning alot, I started sharing a lot,
(03:04):
just talking to people ingeneral, and I realized that
they were listening to me and Inoticed that the more I talked
about it, the better I felt andit just kind of snowballed.
I started as a personal trainerand a spinning instructor while
I was in college and Icontinued to do that all the way
through grad school and theneventually decided that I didn't
(03:25):
want to do what I had thought Ialways wanted to do and what I
had gone to school for.
But I wanted to be in thefitness industry and I've never
turned back.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So let me ask you this you mentioned how you are
like taking this experience andthen educating.
A lot of the listeners are likeokay, what is she educating?
So what exactly are you talkingabout, Besides the fact that
you're talking about your ownstory?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
we thought it looked for so long, like we always had,
this image of a person with aneating disorder was, well, I
don't know, kind of like me,right, a white, thin,
middle-class, straight, cisfemale.
(04:12):
And that's a lie.
There's so many eatingdisorders in so many ways that
they present themselves.
So, to really educate people,that you have no idea what the
person in front of you is goingthrough with their bodies, with
their eating, with theirexercise, all of that.
And then the second part istalking to fitness professionals
(04:33):
, people who teach group classes, who train clients, who coach
people and trying to help themunderstand the impact of their
words on their clients and onthe way their clients see their
bodies and themselves.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I follow you and I see your stories on Instagram
and some of the clips of youhaving a discussion about this
and even in the way yogainstructors talk a certain way.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So give that example, because when you said that to
me, I was like oh my God, Ididn't even realize that Yoga
instructors are the worst, and Ican say that because I am a
yoga instructor and I teach yogainstructors, so it's really
self-deprecation.
But when we learn we can dobetter.
Right, we have to understandthe things that we're doing and
admit that.
Yeah, we probably shouldn'thave said these things.
(05:22):
Something as simple as tellingsomeone they're going to hold
something for one breath andthen starting to tell a story
and keeping them for five or sixbreaths.
We're lying to them, we'rebreaking that trust that we have
and, as simple and as silly asthat might seem, there's a huge
power dynamic between aninstructor and a student and as
(05:42):
soon as we cross that line andstart to lie to them, we're
abusing that power and, whetheror not the student realizes it
in the moment, they feel thatdynamic shift and that's a big
thing.
And then just talking aboutpeople's bodies, so you know
saying something like in aseated forward fold, so when
you're sitting down with yourlegs stretched out in front of
(06:03):
you and you're reaching outtowards your feet, I have heard
numerous instructors saysomething like move the junk out
of your trunk or move thefleshy parts to the side.
And for some people that mightnot impact them, but for someone
who's very self-conscious abouttheir body, instantly that's
all they can think about.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
It's interesting that , even though you know, you go
through the, you know if youwant to become a personal
trainer, you go through thetraining and you learn the body.
And I noticed that they'retalking a little bit about the
psychology of training.
But yeah, it is very.
It literally is a blip.
It's such a blip but they don't.
(06:44):
They're not teaching them howto talk to people.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
No, not at all, and really it goes beyond personal
training in the fitness industry.
But I'm just trying to attackthat little small piece of how
we communicate but no, nobodytalks about that.
The behavioral modificationpart of it and it's huge.
I feel like the psychology partis bigger than the physical
part, Because if you can't getyour brain on track, then you're
(07:09):
definitely not going to getyour body on track.
Your brain comes first 100%,100%.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So do you feel like there is some responsibility or
accountability for those in thefitness profession when dealing
with people who have an eatingdisorder, or just in the way
they talk to people?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I think there's a huge responsibility.
I think that every singleperson is somewhere on a
spectrum of disordered eating.
There's intuitive eating on oneend and classified eating
disorders on the other end, andI really feel that most of us
fall somewhere on the spectrumand, as a personal trainer,
fitness professional, we havethe ability to push someone one
(07:49):
way or the other on the spectrumat any point in time, and
that's that should weigh on us.
It should weigh on us, but Idon't think that it does, even
with something.
When someone comes into you, ifyou're a coach or a trainer and
someone comes in and says I atea huge meal last night and I
need to burn it off, sometimesI'm going to say, more often
(08:13):
than not, an instructor or acoach will be like all right,
let's go, or I got you.
I know how you feel.
I do the same thing.
How about did you enjoy thatmeal?
Great, we're going to do theexact workout that we had
planned for today, and you mightactually feel stronger today,
having taken in excess calorieslast night, who knows?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's a game changer.
You know what you're talkingabout.
Is it?
Can I ask you this Do you getresistance from some people?
Oh God, okay, go ahead, tell me.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I get a lot of resistance.
You know I'm being toosensitive the whole snowflake
thing like I just need to grow aset.
No pain, no gain, all of thisstuff that people are weak and
they just need to toughen up.
When people say things likethat, all it says to me is they
(09:12):
haven't dealt with their ownstuff and they don't want to
deal with their own stuff.
And this is just easier.
It's easier to be that way.
It's harder to turn the lensaround and look in the mirror
and say, oh, I've said somethings I shouldn't have said.
I've probably hurt some peoplewith the things that I've said.
Even though my intentions werepure, even though I intended to
(09:34):
help them, I probably did someharm and I need to do better.
I always say if I could go back20 years and give my original
clients their money back, Itotally would.
But that takes a lot to look atyourself and say I screwed up.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
The ego, oh the ego.
Yeah, I can only imagine how.
First of all, I'm sure when youhave this discussion it's like
a deer in headlights, Like whatis she talking about?
But God, I got to say it is apower.
There is an imbalance of power,first of all, okay, and if
(10:09):
you're in the fitness industrytrainer, coach, whatever and the
mindset is definitely thecritical part, and when you hear
them say coaches and trainersand whatnot, you know I really
want this person to succeed,Like I want them to reach their
goals.
Well, if you really want tohave them to reach their goals,
(10:29):
then you need to start workingon the way you talk to them and
their mindset, and not so muchfocus on the other things,
because what happens, Carly, youknow what happens?
They come back, they go, theyfall off and they come back
because nobody freaking workedon their damn mindset.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, and they get frustrated, they feel defeated.
People come to us as fit prosto help them feel better than
they do, to feel empowered, tofeel like they have some agency
over their body, not to feellike a failure, not to feel
disappointed, not to feeldefeated.
And that's what ends uphappening and that will just
(11:10):
slide them further down thespectrum in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So let me ask you for a fitness professional.
Let's say they're listening tothis and they're like, oh my God
, I didn't even realize this andI want to be better.
So what are some of the thingsI mean?
Is there anything out there forthem to not only just listen to
you and get that aha momentlike holy shit, I've been
messing up here or been talkingin not the best way?
(11:38):
What else is out there for thatperson to level up, so that
they can learn how to speak topeople?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
There's not a lot.
There's not a lot out thereright now and, trust me, I'm
working on a whole bunch ofthings.
So there are resources, there'snot a lot of resources.
But what I will say is, whenyou're about to say something,
take a step back, think about isit helpful and is it kind, and
that's a really good start.
And then, past that, are youjust talking about the physical,
(12:12):
and what I mean by that is,when someone comes in personal
training, what's the first thingthat a trainer will ask a
client, a potential client?
First thing, they ask how muchweight do you want to lose?
Or what's your goal weight?
How about what's your goalPeriod?
It's not assuming that peopleare coming to you because they
want to change their appearance,because as soon as you assume
(12:34):
that they want to change theirappearance, you're assuming that
they're unhappy with theirappearance and you're projecting
your own bullshit onto them.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Carly, you just dropped the mic right there,
Girl you just dropped it.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's not a stand, or I would drop it for you.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh my God, when you just said that.
Can you just repeat that onemore time, because I literally
got the chills.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
You can't assume that their goal is to lose weight or
to change their appearance,because when you're assuming
that they want to change yourappearance, you're assuming that
they are not happy with theirappearance, which is honestly,
underlyingly saying that you'renot happy with their appearance.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, oh, my God, that's the narrative, right, oh?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
my God.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
That is definitely a golden nugget right there.
So, for someone who is a client, okay and how would you like,
what are some things that youcan tell them on how to talk to
their trainer and how to havethat discussion?
And should they like, shouldthey say hey, I don't really
(13:33):
like the way you just said that.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
They absolutely should.
They need to feel comfortablein the space.
Our first basic need is safety,and if we don't feel safe then
we will never achieve our goals,even if that goal is to lose
weight right, we might achieveit in the moment, largely
because we want to make ourtrainer proud how screwed up is
that?
But then we'll go back to ourown lives and go back to where
(13:58):
we were because we didn't feelsafe there.
So we're not going to staythere.
But yeah, and it's hard.
I don't expect clients to beable to do it easily.
It is hard because of thatpower dynamic but taking agency
over your own body, your ownlife, and saying please don't
talk to me that way, pleasedon't talk about weight with me.
(14:18):
I do not want you to weigh me,please do not measure me.
My goals are not weight related.
I have a trainer.
I'm a trainer who has a trainerand it took me a very long time
to find someone that I trusted.
And my first session with thistrainer I said I will not be
weighed, I will not be measured,I will not discuss my diet.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Wow, period, wow Period.
Yeah, it's the same thing wherethey're saying, even like I
have a daughter, and they'resaying that, well, first of all,
why do they have to weigh herevery time we go to the doctor?
What are we doing here and whyand I know her, she looks to see
that number and I know whatit's doing to her head because
she has shared it to me.
So I know what it's doing toher head because she has shared
it to me.
(15:01):
So I have to often say I don'tneed to weigh her, we're here
for a back problem.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Right.
If there's an issue andsomeone's sickly, they're losing
weight quickly.
There's some malnutritionproblem that you're trying to
figure out.
Absolutely put that kid on ascale.
They're not growing, it'ssomething like that.
That's actually weight related,but they go in for a cold and
(15:31):
they throw them on a scale andone of the things is why do we
pay so much?
Attention to weight Becauseit's easy to measure.
Hmm, why is BMI the goldstandard?
Because it's simple tocalculate period.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
BMI, the gold standard, because it's simple to
calculate period.
How should a trainer or coachhandle a situation where they
have a suspicion that thisperson has an eating disorder?
What is the responsibility ofthat coach?
Oh wait, let me take a stepback.
Are they responsible?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yes and no, as a personal trainer, a group X
instructor, a coach.
We are not psychologists, we'renot therapists, we're not
psychiatrists and we're notmedical doctors most of us.
It is not our responsibility todiagnose or treat, but it is
our responsibility to beconscious of it and not to make
things worse.
So if someone has an exerciseaddiction, if they have an
(16:19):
eating disorder and they'reoverexercising and they're
unsafe, if they're not taking inenough calories to perform the
tasks that we're asking them toperform and we continue to ask,
that is our responsibility, sowe can simply address things
like that.
You seem to be a bit tiredtoday.
Have you eaten enough?
I feel like your energy levelisn't where it needs to be.
Did you skip a meal today?
(16:41):
Feel like your energy levelisn't where it needs to be.
Did you skip a meal today?
Are you hydrated?
If you find that they have atendency to talk poorly about
themselves a lot or they'rebashing themselves a lot, bring
it up.
Is everything okay?
I've noticed that you're reallyputting yourself down a lot
lately.
Do you have someone you cantalk to lately?
(17:06):
Do you have someone you cantalk to, making it known that
you notice, that you see themand that you care consistently.
How are you?
What's going on?
Do you need to talk aboutanything?
Do you have a therapist?
Is there a team that can helpyou?
Not saying what's going on?
I'm going to help you becausewe're not qualified to do that,
but first making sure they'reseen and then, if it's that bad
(17:32):
that you really notice someone'slosing a ton of weight listen,
I don't know what's going onwith you.
I don't know if there'ssomething that you want to talk
about, something going on withyour health, but I have noticed
this.
Here are some resources thatyou might want to look into.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
It's not our job to diagnose.
It's not our job to say I thinkyou have an eating disorder,
because what that's going to dois either send someone into a
spiral or tell them that theyneed to lie to us, because
people with eating disorders andI say this because I am one we
become master manipulators.
We're able to lie about it andhide it and keep it from people,
(18:14):
and that makes it worse.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, and I'm thinking, you know, as you're
talking, like, let's say, thisperson says to them like look, I
have a history of an eatingdisorder.
Like what would they do?
Like I mean you're sayingthere's not a lot of resources
out there, I'm like what thehell am I going to?
How am I going to talk to thisclient?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
right, but try not to focus on the way their body
looks and don't talk about food.
What I would say to them isgreat, do you still have a
therapist and are you workingwith a nutritionist?
If they say no to either one ofthose things, I would say I
think that if you're starting anexercise program, you might
need to have more people on yourteam than just me.
These are some nutritioniststhat I would recommend.
(19:03):
Could you go back to your oldtherapist?
Did you have a good reputationor a good relationship with your
therapist?
Otherwise, here are a fewtherapists locally or online,
that I recommend that deal withthese issues, Not because I
think that you're in a bad spotnow, but when you do start to
exercise.
That could be triggering.
So I would like you to put ateam in place.
(19:23):
They don't have to do it, butyou put it out there.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
This is mind blowing, carly, like seriously.
I mean mind blowing in thesense of I mean, we know mindset
psychology and all of that, butmind blowing in the sense that
this is not being taught in thefitness industry, of all things.
Like I never connected the dotsand now that you're saying this
, I'm like there's nothing outthere that could potentially
help somebody going into thisfield to deal with something
(19:52):
like this.
Like this is a big, freakingdeal.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
It is.
Myself and a colleague wrote acertification for the MedFit
Network.
It's out there, it's online.
It's called Eating Disorderswhat Fit Pros Need to Know.
It touches on the basis ofeating disorders, but also some
Q&A and some basic interactionsand dialogue that you can use
with clients when they come toyou saying things like I hate my
(20:17):
thighs or I need to work outextra because I ate a whole
pizza last night, or I'm goingto brunch and I need to earn my
calories.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
That's good, all right.
Well, we're going to put someof that in the notes for those
of you who want to learn moreabout that.
So when you are doing these,having these conversations,
you're going out there, you'retalking to the masses like,
besides the education, and justletting them know this awareness
, what are your hopes in thelong run to occur?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
my largest hope is that the shame surrounding
eating disorders and disorderedeating will start to dissipate,
because these things they liveand they thrive in the shadows,
and the more we feel ashamed ofthings, the more we hide them.
And when they're hidden theygrow, and it's not until they're
seen and they're out there andpeople feel able to talk about
them, they become almostnormalized, that people start to
(21:20):
like themselves a little bitmore and not beat themselves up
for the smallest little thing.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I love that you're giving back.
I mean, I really do.
You took something that you hadto deal with you have a better
understanding than most becauseyou've dealt with it yourself
and then to educate.
Like God, I'm still mind blown,because who would have known
that?
Now we got to educate thefitness industry?
Who are talking about bodies?
(21:48):
I still can't believe.
You're the first person I'veever known to talk about this
that I know of.
I don't read it, I don't see it.
It's not something that it'sout there, which is why I wanted
you on here.
So I want to speak to not onlythe fitness instructors and the
(22:10):
coaches, but also the clients,the customers, to know that,
look, you have a voice and youhave every right to exercise
that voice.
And, yes, of all places, thisis the place where you can talk
about that, because you'retalking about your body and all
that.
So it's not.
(22:30):
Don't think, oh, this is notappropriate, this is not the
right place.
It is the right place to talkabout it.
I mean, where else are yougoing to talk about it, but
right here, where they'retelling you how to move your
body and that you got to loseweight in a certain way.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It's crazy, and not only with trainers and coaches
and group X instructors, butalso in social media, if you
look at your newsfeed and allthe things telling you that you
need to look a certain way andhave a certain body and do a
certain workout and drink acertain shake and all of these
things because you need to fitin a specific box, in a specific
(23:05):
shape.
And our clients, our students,are dealing with that every day,
all day.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, and you know, when we talked about their
accountability, you know we havegot kids watching this.
You know we got young womenlike watching this stuff and you
have to be responsible somewhat.
You know you can't just say,well, they don't have to watch
it, look, they're watching, theyare all over, they're watching.
(23:37):
It's easy to get, they arewatching.
Be better, be different.
I mean, how do you not thinkthat they're all watching this
and it can be detrimental to ayoung woman's mind?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
The flip side of that , or what people will say to
that, is well, that's on theirparents, and you know what A lot
of their parents aren'tequipped to deal with it either.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
A lot of their parents might be in the same
situation.
Right, they're burying theirown food issues and body issues
because they don't feel safetalking about it.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And when you don't deal with your shit, it comes
out later.
And if you have kids and youdon't deal with your shit.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
guess what?
They're going to pick it up.
Yep, absolutely, carly.
I love this conversation.
I'm sure I love that.
It's controversial, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It's not the most fun thing for people in our
industry to talk about and it'snot the easiest thing to think
about.
And the reason it'scontroversial, the reason it's
not fun, is because it requiresall of us to look at ourselves
and change our behavior, andthat's hard to do.
You know, I know a lot of thethings I talk about now I've
done.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And for me to say that I've done it.
That's the first time I did it.
It's like, oh God, it gives youthat like pit in your stomach,
but that's what growth is.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, and we're expecting these clients to
change their behaviors, and yetwe can't change ours.
Okay, how about?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So all right, Carly, what is next?
Where are you going?
I see you talking all over thedamn place.
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
What am I doing next?
Let's see Breaking news.
No one knows this yet.
I just signed on for the nexttwo years to be a Lululemon
ambassador.
I'll have them behind me nowworking on this mission.
So that's super exciting.
So this is the first publicplace that I've broadcast that.
So there's that I havesomething called a stayvention
(25:47):
coming up in June and it's fitpros from all over the world.
So it's a virtual convention.
So there's a movement,professional from Asia, and
there's people from all over theplace doing different sessions,
and I'll be talking about this,talking about the body
dysmorphia and the eatingdisorder spectrum and the fact
(26:11):
that, though you may not thinkyou have anyone in your class
who has an eating disorder,there's a good chance that you
do Wow, okay, yeah, all right,yeah, and I've got a few things,
a few things like that comingup and there's there's a book in
the works as well.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I can't wait for that , I guess.
Okay, so we're going to put allof this stuff on the you know
information on the show notes sopeople can follow you and get
ahold of you.
So where are you these days onsocial media?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So my Instagram.
There's a lot of underscores inthis.
It's underscore Carlyunderscore.
Taylor underscore.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Okay, so Instagram, where else are you?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I'm on Facebook as Carly Goring Taylor.
You can also find me under oneof my companies, so Barflow on
both Instagram and Facebook.
Okay, and you can find me asCar of my companies, so Barflow
on both.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Instagram and Facebook Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
And you can find me as Carly G Taylor on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Okay, good, good.
Carly, I am so happy that youcame on here.
Drop some major gems.
Holy shit, Good shit here.
I mean really good stuff here.
You shared a lot of greatthings.
I mean really good stuff here.
You shared a lot of greatthings and I'm so grateful that
you're doing this work andopening the minds of coaches,
(27:26):
instructors in the fitnessindustry and it's not an easy
feat, I can only imagine but atleast you're talking about it
and you're not stopping, sothank you for that.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And thank you for being open-minded enough and
brave enough to talk about thesame things.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Not everybody will.
Thanks again for being a partof this and we'll definitely put
everything on the show notes.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Okay, everyone, and until next time bye.
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