March 12, 2024 • 43 mins
191 - In this episode, we chat with Jesse Clemmens, co-founder of HiTide, a platform revolutionizing SMS list growth for Shopify brands. Delve into cutting-edge strategies for data collection, effective retention techniques for sustainable growth, and more!
Watch the full episode here!
You’ll Learn
- All about the HiTide process
- How HiTide collects zero-party data
- HiTide vs. ManyChat: similarities and key differences
- Tagging as a way to trigger an automation: how it works
- Examples of automations triggered by tagging
- The top reasons consumers unsubscribe from SMS
- Email vs. SMS: the key differences in retention
- Subscriber LTV: people who join organically vs. through giveaway posts
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
- HiTide
- WHOOP app
- Mr. Popper's Penguins (Newbery Honor Book)
- Dumb and Dumber (1994)
- Mr. Popper's Penguins (2011)
- Shopify
- Attentive | Personalized Text Messaging for Innovative Brands
- Postscript - SMS Marketing and Sales for Shopify Brands
- Klaviyo: Marketing Automation for Email Marketing, SMS & CDP
- Chat Marketing Made Easy with Manychat
- Gorgias: Customer Service Made Easy for Online Stores
- SuperBonsai - SuperHuman Alcohol Recovery
- HiTide Case Study: How SuperBonsai Jump Started Their Postscript List at a Cost of $0.24 Per Subscriber
- NADS Organic Underwear – Nads
- Bottomless - Your Products Always In Stock
Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review and we will send you a Flowium gift.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to email Einstein, a podcast by Floium.
It's time to start honoringyour inner marketing Einstein.
Tune in for the data-driventips that'll make you a
marketing genius.
Here you'll find emailmarketing formulas and tips
straight from the brilliant madscientists at Floium.
It's time for your emails tostart earning more money.
It's time to unleash yourEinstein.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, hello everyone and welcome back to email
Einstein.
The podcast by Floium.
We are your host, vera Sadlak.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I'm Andrey Bocz.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And we are pumped to have you guys back with us
because today we have a veryspecial guest with us today to
discuss all things SMS listgrowth.
So today we have a specialguest joining us Jesse Clemens,
co-founder and CEO of Hi-Tite.
Hi-tite is the app that isrevolutionizing the game for
(00:55):
e-commerce brands with theirinnovative approach to SMS list
growth through social DMautomations, and we are
definitely going to go indetails and we're going to
discuss this amazing tech anddetails.
But before we go there, say hi,jesse, we're so happy to have
you on this podcast today.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate the chanceto join and talk SMS.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, we just had a quick chat before I start
heading to record.
But Jesse is calling us fromNew York and I'm also in New
York and we have what?
Three inches of snow in thecity, which never sleeps, stops
when it snows.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yes, and I have my warm cup of coffee.
I'm bundled up inside, lookingat the snow globe outside and
ready to talk SMS, as one doeson a snow day.
Oh, that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I'm so jealous of you guys.
Oh sorry, andrea, I just wantedto add a few things about this
snow topic.
I'm so jealous of youexperiencing this right now.
I actually got myself ticketsto Finland in hope of seeing
snow this year for the firsttime, so hopefully I'm going to
be able to see this snow thisyear, but if not, I'm just going
(02:08):
to watch Andrea's Insta stories.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Nice thanks, Amazing.
I hope you have a fantasticFinland trip.
Are you going cross countryskiing by any chance?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
No, I'm just going for a weekend to see the snow
and going back becauseeverything gets so close here
there you go, there you go.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
I'm jealous.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, nice, nice.
Before we start the full globeinterview, we have a quick Q&A
questions to know you better.
Are you good with that?
Yeah, let's do it, sure.
So let's do it Facebook orInstagram.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Oh, all right.
So we're doing rapid fire.
Choose one.
I'm going to go with Instagram,the best platform for.
Sms growth, of course.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Desktop shopping or mobile shopping.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
You know I'm the guy that the attribution people hate
.
I browse on mobile and then Igo and purchase on desktop.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Wow, Okay, so this is question, not this or that.
Favorite app subscription.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Oh, my favorite app subscription.
I'm currently addicted to whoop, which is my wearable, not for
fitness so much, but for sleep.
I love it for sleep tracking.
So that's my current and, funnyenough, if the whoop team is
listening, my renewal is up in acouple of days.
Here my yearly subscriptionrenewal and I'm hoping to renew,
(03:31):
so that's my current fave, nice.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
If you could learn any new skill, what would it be?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
That's a good one.
I would love to be amazing atplaying the drums, which I am
not amazing at and have alwaysadmired.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Cool.
What's something on your bucketlist?
What do you have?
Something that you can share?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Oh, on my bucket list for life in general.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
This is kind of an easy one.
It's hopefully going to bequite achievable.
It's not about vacations orcrazy professional
accomplishments, but I am hopingto start a family at some point
soon.
So that's my bucket list is tobecome a dad.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
That's so cool.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Great one.
I never heard that on bucketlist, but it's cool.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, that's a good one.
Mine is more hard to.
Mine is harder to achieve.
I talked about it many times onthe podcast, but I really,
really, really want to hug apenguin and I still haven't
found a way of like doing that.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
So if you have any connections in the industry.
Well, I don't know the penguinpopulation looks like in Finland
, so I can't promise you, butwe'll take a look.
Did you ever read the book, mrPoppers Penguins as a Kid, or
see the movie?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
No, I haven't.
I grew up in Ukraine and weread like different kind of
books.
But I'm going to put this oneon my bucket list, Jesse.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
I'm going to send you a link, not to divert too much.
But the 10 second is it's abouta guy that wants to own
penguins in the city, and so hefreezes his apartment and brings
all the penguins into theapartment.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I think you saw this is a famous comedian.
Who's his name?
What is the actor team?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Oh, I don't know.
I only know it as a children'smovie.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I would, I would remember if I saw something as
legendary as this.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I think they're similar movie.
Maybe it's based on the story,but like more modern on and the
famous comedian I forgot hisname he plays, who plays down
downer and dumber.
And there's movie about alsoJim Carrey yeah, Jim Carrey.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Jim.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Carrey.
Yeah, in New York City he seeshis apartment.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
That must be the that must be the movie version.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Okay cool.
I'm going to Google it afterthe after the call Okay cool.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Andre what's?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
your bucket list Mine .
Speaker 4 (05:54):
We got to know.
The people want to know.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Always like to share it's.
I want to build the airship.
It's not spaceship airship,it's a sustainable building
based, built from garbage, andthey typically build them in
Arizona.
It's a guy I forgot his name,but he has even documentary on
Netflix how he built, how hereused like bottles, tires and
(06:17):
built those sustainable housesin in ground.
So I want to build one in in mylife.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Your bucket list items are so admirable, you guys
.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
I was going to say when, when you get that built,
I'll bring the kids, and Verabrings the penguins and we'll
have a little party.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, so I just Google it.
So the movie calls Mr PopPoppers Penguins.
That's it, that's it.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, cool, cool, cool.
I'm gonna Google it.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's a very funny movie.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Guess what I'm watching tonight.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, we do have some more serious questions, Jesse.
I promise this episode it's notgonna be only about the
penguins and stuff, but tell usmore about what you do.
What is high tide and how doesit connect to Instagram, Because
I'm still very in awe of whatyou guys are doing and tell us
(07:11):
more about it.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
And how did you come up with this name, High Tide?
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah, oh, that's another great question.
So let me briefly start withkind of the discovery of
learning about this method andwhy we wanted to build this
platform, and then I'll get intothe specifics of how it works.
On a top level, I had spent mycareer before getting to the
(07:38):
Shopify space about a year and ahalf ago.
I had spent my career in socialand specifically on social ads.
I spent almost 10 years betweenGoogle and Facebook and a
couple other programmatic adsplatforms, and as I got into the
Shopify space and learned moreabout how brands are marketing
their products, I realized thatthere was a major gap that
(08:01):
existed between brands' socialfollowings and their owned
channels email and SMS wheremany of the Shopify brands that
we all work with work so hard tobuild these non-owned
followings on social and then,often separately, are working to
build these owned channels thatthey have true control over.
(08:22):
I thought that problem wasreally interesting and I kind of
filed it away in my head and,separately, was working on a now
kind of now defunct projectthat was helping creators to
monetize their Instagrammessages.
When we first started buildingthis concept, meta had opened up
(08:42):
their Instagram Messenger APIfor the first time.
My co-founders and I thought itwould be cool to build a power
inbox for influencers andcreators.
That sorted through incomingcomments and DMs.
And, long story short, we foundout that what some of these
creators specifically those whoare selling stuff on Shopify
actually wanted was a moredependable way to reach their
(09:04):
following.
And through a series ofexperiments, we realized that
automation of messages was afantastic way to build owned
channels.
That would allow anyone thatwanted to sell stuff to their
audience the ability to convertInstagram following into an
owned channel.
And as we learned more aboutSMS, we realized that SMS
(09:27):
opt-ins, by nature of bothregulatory and kind of consumer
habits, are just tough to get.
It's expensive to acquire aphone number.
We put two and two together andlaunched this brand new
platform called Hi-Tide about ayear ago that helps brands
acquire phone numbers, and we dothat on top of the Messenger
marketing API, which I can talka little bit more about in a bit
(09:48):
.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
That's very interesting, Jesse, and just
curious can you do same thingwith emails or a similar thing
with emails?
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Yeah, so we started with SMS and we're laser focused
on SMS because it's the biggestgap in the market today.
It's hard and it's expensive toacquire phone numbers and
there's just hasn't been a tonof innovation outside of website
pop-ups for capturing SMS.
The core function of what we dois helping brands to start
(10:18):
automated short sequences viaInstagram DMs that capture data.
So if you remove the SMS partof our platform, what we really
aspire to do is be thiszero-party data collection
platform where SMS opt-ins arejust one kind of channel that we
can move people into and emailis another.
(10:41):
We don't have a full set ofemail functionality built out in
the platform today, but it'shigh on our list for stuff to do
in the future and if youimagine a DM based conversation
between a brand and a consumer,you might get people the option
to what they want to subscribeto or connect people with
whichever channel they prefer.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
So the shorter answer is not yet, but we hope to soon
, jesse, so could you pleasewalk us through the process from
A to Z in terms of how do youconvert Instagram followers into
SMS subscribers?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Yeah for sure.
Okay, so a brand on boards ontothe Hightight platform and they
connect us with three importantplatforms that they use.
The first is their SMS platform, like attentive or PostScript
or Clavio.
The second is their Instagramaccount.
They connect their Instagramaccount via this messaging API
(11:40):
that Facebook provides.
That makes it safe and, in fact, encouraged to run these types
of automations.
And then the third is theShopify connection, which we'll
talk about in a bit.
Once they're connected, a brandcan set up what we call a
keyword based trigger.
That keyword based trigger ismonitoring posts and direct
messages, looking only for veryspecific things to trigger off
(12:04):
of whether those are certainemojis or certain comments, and
when triggered, it results in ashort direct message automation
that takes the user through asequence of questions From a
user perspective, like puttingaside all the kind of like API
stuff and the technical aspectsof it.
On the front end, as a user, Imight be browsing my favorite
(12:28):
you know, say, my favoritesneaker brand.
I see a post about a product.
Let's imagine that it's a postabout, you know, a limited run
of 100 of a certain color way ofsneakers that are going to be
available in two weeks from thissneaker brand that I love.
On the post there'll be somesort of call to action it might
be, you know, comment drop toget signed up for our text alert
(12:52):
when the product is available,when I engage with that post via
comment, or it could be via astory reply or a direct message.
Hi tide is picking up thatautomation and taking me through
a private message that comesfrom the brand.
In the brand's voice thatbasically says like hey, jesse,
you know, thanks for yourinterest in this drop.
We expect these products to goquickly.
(13:13):
If you want to sign up for thelist, reply back with your phone
number and from there I'm takenthrough a short, tcpa compliant
flow.
Most importantly, high tidesjob stops at the moment of
opt-in, so we're moving peopleinto the opt-in for the platform
and then we do measurement andanalytics afterwards to show how
(13:33):
you know what kind of ROI thebrand has gotten from a campaign
like this.
But we're actually partneredwith all the SMS platforms, so
we don't send any texts.
We simply help these platformsand these brands grow their
lists faster.
And from a consumer standpointit's kind of a magic moment
because I've opted in forsomething that I want to get a
notification about in the future.
Two weeks later, I get the text.
(13:54):
I'm walking to the store, I getthe text and I'm able to buy
the thing that I wanted to buy.
At the moment, I want to buy it.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, that's very interesting and you mentioned
that you guys call yourself likea zero party data platform,
like what other kind ofinformation can you collect?
Say, is there a way to collectinformation about sneakers,
color preference and likerecorded somewhere on the
(14:23):
platform, say in Clavio, or somelike other like preferences Is
there?
Is that a thing that you can do?
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Yes.
So the beauty of the platformis that, regardless of whether
someone is a new subscriber ornot, when they interact with a
post and either input theirphone number or have input their
phone number in the past, withtheir consent, we can update the
marketing automation platformsrecord of that customer profile.
(14:51):
So, just picking randomly fromone of our many great partners
for PostScript, if you're goingthrough that flow, we can ask
you what size shoe are you Inthe case of the sneaker drop?
And PostScript has a beautifulset of APIs that they've made
available to their developerpartners that allows us to not
(15:14):
only mark that person assubscribed but actually update
them to match a particularsegment or profile, and I'm
really excited about this overthe long term.
One kind of major trend we'veheard from the marketing
automation platforms is this isthe year that they're figuring
(15:34):
out how to bring AI to beararound.
No more batch and blast techsending.
It's all about personalization.
They're best suited to do thatjob because they're storing all
these customer records andinteractions and, if I can,
alongside a brand, better fuelthat machine and help make techs
more effective, I'm reallyhappy.
(15:54):
So the idea of preference dataas one type of zero-party data
is really interesting and reallyimportant.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, that's huge.
Zero-party data is huge.
Definitely, jesse.
Maybe it's a silly question,but I'm sure a lot of people
will have it.
How is it legal?
Like seriously, how do you guysensure that a Sebastian process
remains compliant, becausethere are so many requirements
that TCPA have?
(16:24):
One of them is to have theconsent and written or
electronic signature of theperson who's agreeing to receive
SMS.
How does Hightight ensure thatthe SMS opt-in process remains
compliant?
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Yeah, that's a really , really important question.
So the way that we respect TCPAand allow brands to adhere to
TCPA is by including extremelydirect, clear and TCPA-compliant
messaging in the direct messageitself.
(17:02):
So, as a user, if I'm joining acampaign by kicking off a direct
message with a brand and thebrand is asking for my phone
number, that's all good and fine, but the moment before I'm
opting in to a text list, I haveto be presented with extremely
clear language that covers allthe TCPA requirements, including
(17:25):
language around that I'msigning up for recurring
marketing, I'm signing up forrecurring marketing messages
that consent is in the conditionto purchase and that I'm
signing up for a text list.
And the SMS platforms themselveshave done a fantastic job of
ensuring that, when brands arelaunching new opt-in flows
(17:48):
whether that's an on-site pop-upor whether that's an Instagram
story post that they'reincluding all the right language
.
And so what Hytide does is weactually sync up with the
existing TCPA language on anaccount level.
So for a given brand, with ourintegration, we pull back the
TCPA consent language and wejust replicate it in a way
(18:12):
that's clear and easy to read inthe direct message and then,
finally, the actual moment ofconsent happens through whatever
join method the platform uses.
This is getting a littletechnical, but one example is
many platforms support theability for a consumer to send
in a keyword to join a text list.
(18:33):
If you're doing SMS, you'reprobably familiar with this
experience, and so when the SMSplatform receives that keyword,
consent is logged and you'regood to go, and then from there
it's providing the ability toopt out, etc.
Etc.
We make sure that we're simplysending the user along to the
platform's existing join flowand keeping everything super
(18:57):
TCPA compliant and clear.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Just see, I have one not prepared question, but I
have to ask you because itbothers me.
So there's other players in theindustry and again they are
similar, but maybe they aredifferent.
So I want to ask you, sinceyou're in this industry, like
provider, like vendor, likeManiChat, are they a competitor
(19:21):
of yours or not?
Or they do something different?
Because it sounds very similar,but maybe I'm misunderstanding.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
This is an interesting one, so the
messaging API that Instagrambuilt has made it really, really
easy to integrate, and so, asyou would expect, there are many
solutions out there that dochat automation or that do chat
bots or that do automatedreplies, and so everything from
(19:49):
CX platforms like Gorgias, forexample, falls into this
category, in that they'reingesting messages for customer
service, down to ManiChat and afew of the others that are more
general purpose marketing tools.
The difference between Hi-Tideand anyone else out there is
that Hi-Tide is laser focused onSMS growth, and we have spent a
(20:11):
lot of time integrating intothe existing SMS partners out
there, as opposed to trying tocompete with our own texting
service, and so, with Hi-Tide,we've assembled something in a
unique way that provides extremevalue to a brand and allows
them to get up and running withthese types of campaigns faster
than anywhere else.
(20:32):
Could you go and put together aseries of queries to your text
provider and assemble it in oneplace, and then put together a
third party chat solution andrun some of these campaigns?
You could, with a lot of timeand effort.
We make it easy to connect infive minutes and get up and
(20:53):
running for a very low cost andhigh value, and that's how we
intend to win.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Thank you for explaining.
So you said that you triggeryour automations based on
specific keys or keywords, buton Instagram a lot of people to
grow their account, they usesome method to mention somebody
else.
Let's say, hey, mention fivepeople to get into this giveaway
(21:21):
.
So first question do you haveany strategy or does it trigger
your automations If somebodymentioned somebody else, and do
you message both people or onlyone?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
How does it work?
That's a great question.
This one actually comes upquite a bit, so we consider
tagging as one way to trigger anautomation.
A popular scenario is a brandhas collaborated with a
influencer, for example, has acollab post up and running and
both the influencer and thebrand are asking for a friend
(21:56):
tag action.
In our case, the way thatInstagram has built this
beautiful API is that you canonly run an automation in the
scenario that we're describing.
This is actually a comment,private reply from the person
that left the comment.
So while we hope that theperson they tagged might come in
and join the party and commenton that post, you're only
(22:18):
allowed to respond to thatperson that left the comment,
and that's very important cleardistinction and a clear rule
that Instagram has built toavoid spam-like behavior and all
the unwanted DM-type stuff thatyou can imagine happening
without stricter controls.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Could you walk us through an example?
Let's say, vero did thisgiveaway and I'm tagging
somebody else and I'm receivingmessages from Vero's brand.
And what kind of messages Ireceive?
Thank you for tagging.
Can you walk us through someexamples please?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah for sure.
Okay, so I'm going to use anexample of a brand that we
actually have a case study of onour website.
Check it out if you want evenmore detail.
Let me start very briefly withdescribing the objective of this
campaign and then I'll describethe actual mechanics of how the
messages worked.
So we work with a brand calledSuperbanzai.
(23:19):
Superbanzai is a new entry tothe market.
It's a very fast growinghydration solution.
So in simpler terms, it's ahangover cure or a supplement
that helps with hangovers.
You drink it the night, you'reout for a bunch of drinks or the
next morning, and they aregrowing this brand very fast.
(23:44):
They were launching in a newchannel.
They're on Shopify, they werelaunching their Amazon store and
they were, at the same time,launching their SMS program.
So they happened to have chosenPostScript for their SMS
platform and they came to us andthey were like, hey, we want to
do this giveaway and ourobjective is to get as many new
(24:05):
SMS subscribers as possible forthe lowest possible cost, and we
want to do it around the Amazongiveaway.
So we want to like, kind ofpair it with this Amazon launch
and do a giveaway around it.
In their case, you can imagine apost.
The post was about, I believeit was an Amazon gift
certificate plus some freeproduct, and the post had a very
(24:30):
clear caption that said hey,here's what we're giving away
and here's how to enter.
Yes, this is it for anyonewatching the video that's up on
the screen.
Now the case study In thecaption.
The caption had one of therequirements of the giveaway as
tag a friend to enter thecampaign, when or actually, let
me be clear.
It said tag a friend and we'llDM you to finalize your entry to
(24:55):
the campaign.
And in their case, when someoneentered the giveaway, tagged a
friend, they expected to receivea DM and, sure enough, seconds
later they received a DM thatsaid hey, here's the last step
for joining this giveaway.
That's your phone number forjoining our text list, and
included all the TCPA language,and then that was kind of the
(25:17):
last step for entering thisgiveaway.
So those are the mechanics.
The results were they actuallydid a collab on this one that
reached 60 times their followeraccount, so it was super high
engagement.
It was kind of a carefullyselected collaboration that was
within their kind of brand worldand I believe it was like 20, I
think it was 24 cents persubscriber was the cost for net
(25:40):
new subscribers, which if youthink about a percentage
discount, that's really great.
And then you know they'retracking some conversion stats
down the line, so they're superhappy with this one.
It jumpstarted their postscript list in a way that the
you know day by day drip ofpeople joining a pop up just
can't compete with, and they'vemaintained a pretty high opt-in
(26:01):
rate for this one, which is alsoimportant.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah.
So just like to confirm, jesse.
So say I tagged Andrew.
Andrew will receive, like, somesort of message from you as
well right?
Speaker 4 (26:15):
No, no, so only the person that leaves the initial
comment gets a message.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Hopefully you will have received a notification
from Andre.
Oh, andre, tagged in this post.
You'll check it out if you'reinterested, you might join, but
otherwise it's.
One comment results in onemessage.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
I just wanted to add the other cool thing about this
campaign.
I mentioned it quickly, inpassing, but this is an
important part of the strategythe way that Instagram has built
collab posts.
If you're collabing with eitheranother brand or a influencer,
you can find the link in thedescription below.
I think people are probablyfamiliar with the cloud post but
, briefly, it shows up in bothfeeds.
If you're the primary post, youactually have control over the
(26:57):
comments and you can run anautomation like this so that if
people are coming from anotheraudience, even if they joined
that post through theinfluencers feed, for example,
we can capture phone numbers ata very high rate, which is an
added bonus of this strategy forthis particular client.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I recently just found out maybe it's not recent news,
but I recently found out thatyou are able to collaborate with
multiple brands.
In the past, you just were ableto do it only one, but now
you're multiple people, multiplebrands.
That's right.
Not sure what the limit is, butit's cool.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
At one point it was six.
I haven't seen people do toomany more than six.
I think in practice now theymay have opened it up further,
but it's a really cool feature.
Actually, I think it's one ofthe top underrated features on
social right now.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, I wonder what the LTV of those people who are
coming organically versus peoplewho are coming through this
giveaway type of posts are.
Maybe you guys have someinsights.
I'm just curious whether or notit makes sense even to invest
in those giveaways.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah, that's a great question.
This is one of the things wewere unsure of at the beginning
because we're like, hey, we havethis tactic that we know works
really well for SMS list growth,but does it convert?
Obviously we have.
I think we have now close to 12different campaign types where
giveaways are one campaign type,but in the early days most of
(28:28):
the campaigns were giveaways.
It's now balanced out a bitmore.
One of the things that wasextremely important to us when
we're building this platform andthe V1 of it the dirty MVP
version of this thing was how dowe track ROI on these campaigns
?
Brands are running giveawaysall the time, not just with high
(28:50):
tide, obviously Objective formany of those campaigns.
They're often run by the socialteams where the objective is
gain more followers.
It's a successful tactic forgaining more followers and
getting engagement up on theaccount overall.
But there's this constantquestion of like, what's my ROI
and are those people that arefollowing from these campaigns
or are they actually worthwhileadditions to my audience?
(29:13):
Where on social, follower countis follower count and there's
no added cost per se if you'readding a bunch of low-intent
people On SMS it's actually theopposite the more low-intent
people you get on the text list,the more turn you're going to
get, and also, you might just besending expensive text messages
to people that don't care aboutyour brand and don't want to
(29:33):
buy anything, alright.
So the way that we solved thiswas, importantly we integrated
into Shopify and then, for eachcampaign, say it's a giveaway.
For the giveaway campaign, wemap purchases in Shopify to the
phone number that's beencollected in order to show down
to the scent, how many purchasesare coming out of that audience
(29:54):
that's been collected, andthat's how we measure ROI for
the brand.
And what we found which waslike surprising and a happy
outcome for us in the verybeginning was these giveaways do
actually perform in terms ofROI, sometimes very
substantially.
You have a lot of people thatare already huge fans of the
(30:15):
brand on Instagram and, forwhatever reason, they haven't
had the incentive, they haven'tgotten the pop-up, they haven't
gone over to the website lately,or maybe they even churned off
of the text list, and so postslike this are a really great way
, that is now fullyROI-measurable, to get those
people back on the text list.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, interesting Guys.
I just want to share a fewreally, really interesting stats
that I got from one of theseclaveo studies that they've done
recently.
I actually found out that 95%of people that they had in their
study they say that they aresubscribed to less than seven
brands on SMS.
(30:54):
That's such a big commitment,right, like when you're getting
someone's email.
It's probably not as big of adeal as it is when you're
getting an SMS, and I amsubscribed to three or four
brands, so that's getting thatSMS is huge, that's a great stat
To me.
(31:15):
Honestly, I expected this numberto be higher, but then I
analyzed what brands I'msubscribed to and it's just
maybe five brands.
Yeah, that's true, but yeah,what brands are you following on
SMS?
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Oh man.
So, firstly, I'm subscribed tomany more than seven, by nature
of I subscribe for research andsubscribe to follow the brands
that we work with.
So everyone from Seek to agreat underwear brand called
NADS to Superbond's, I'm gettingtext all the time and it's
(31:49):
actually a pretty fun way tostay on top of what my brands
are doing.
So, personal standpoint, I amsubscribed to a great service
called Bottomless that sends mecoffee on a regular basis and
they do an amazing job of SMSmarketing, both from a
transactional standpoint butalso, you know, kind of sharing
(32:11):
about the brands that are coffeebrands that are launching on
their platform.
So that's one that I love.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, that's nice.
So you are an experienced SMSuser, I guess.
So from your standpoint maybemore as a user and not as the
owner of this platform how canbrands ensure that they maintain
that momentum from theirsuccessful SMS list gross
campaigns and maximize thepotential of this new acquired
(32:38):
contacts?
Do you have any recommendation?
Are there any specificstrategies or tactics that you
can recommend?
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Yeah.
So there's obviously a hugebody of work around effectively
using an SMS list in general, soI won't really touch on any of
that stuff.
You guys could probably teachme a lot about that.
What I do know about is, youknow, for some of these social
campaigns, effectivesegmentation is really really
(33:06):
important, and then you knowbeing aware of where that person
is landing in your existingflows or existing setups.
What I mean by that is, you know, typically a brand will come to
us.
They have two objectives.
Number one they have somethingyou know that they're dropping
soon, a new product that'sreleasing.
Maybe they have, you know, anew fashion capsule.
(33:29):
Whatever it is, there'ssomething going on that they
want to run a campaign around,because that tends to work
really well for social and doesa great job of pulling in
high-intent people.
Making sure that you're bothsegmenting the users that have
interacted with the campaign ona very granular level and also
getting those people into theproper welcome flows if they're
(33:50):
new subscribers and like tellingthe difference between a new
subscriber versus someone elsethat has joined in the past or
that is an existing subscriberthese are all fairly simple
settings in the customerautomation platform, but just
being thoughtful about whatmessage you want to send to who
is the whole name of the game,and it's just as important for
(34:11):
this channel as for an overallprogram.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Or, even more important, I got this like again
, going back to my stats, I lovegood stats.
Going back to this study byClavio, they actually asked
people what are the main reasonsconsumers unsubscribed from SMS
program.
And okay, let's play a gamewhat do you guys think is the
number one reason why peopleunsubscribe from SMS programs?
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Too many SMS.
Too many texts.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Too many texts, like 73% of like responders said that
yeah, too many SMSes is likenumber one reason why they would
unsubscribe.
Also, people said that the samemessage many times is like a
big reason to unsubscribe.
Or messages that don't have apurpose.
To be honest, they don'tnecessarily understand what it
(35:02):
means like probably likemessages without clear.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
How much purpose can you put in those 166 characters?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
But I mean you can, you just have to be very like
purposefully using the CTAsright when you're sending
traffic.
Good, clear call to action,like.
I've noticed that like I meanbrands that I work with every
time we send the link to like ablog post or something this
SMSes are not performing as wellas, say, promotional SMS with
(35:35):
like link to the productdirectly.
But that's just like myexperience.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
I think that you know this is, you know, getting a
little further into general SMSbest practice world.
That I said I wasn't going tocomment on, but I think, like
you know, it's about valueexchange.
Actually, that text has to bevaluable in some way, whether
that's just timely or whetherit's actually, like you know,
thoughtful content.
For example, for this coffeecompany that I was talking about
(36:01):
, this is not what they're doing.
This is an imaginary example.
I would much rather you know,know which two coffees are, you
know, coming up and, like Idon't know, maybe a line or two
about what makes them special,maybe like what region did they
come from?
Who's the farmer that producedthem?
That sort of thing, as opposedto what I don't want is I don't
(36:21):
want a coffee joke of the dayhitting my inbox at 7.30,
preparing for my morning meetingbecause, like you know, maybe
that's fun the first time butit's going to get old quickly.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
But I think if I ask the same question, you and Vera
Vera probably will prefer coffeejoke every morning.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yes, that's a good point.
That's what.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
I was about to say.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It all comes down to like understanding who your
audience is.
I guess right, yeah, Always,always.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
I wonder how you know .
One area I'd like to learn alot more about is email.
How does all this stuff compareto email?
Is it, you know, kind of thesame general principles, or is
there anything dramaticallydifferent when it comes to
retention for opt-ins andsubscribes In comparison?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
to what SMS.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Vera go ahead.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I mean in email you work with a bigger real estate,
right?
The email itself is bigger, soyou can definitely be more
adventurous with a copy.
You can be.
People are more forgiving withemails.
You know, sms is like morepersonal, almost Like I'm very
careful with who I give my SMSnumber to.
(37:31):
With emails I'm like I had likea bad word in my head for that.
But with emails I'm veryadventurous.
I get my email to like everyonelike seriously, no, it's bad,
it's like bad.
Every morning I wake up to likea hundred unanswered like
promotional emails.
But that's maybe that's a partof the job.
That's what I want to believeanyways, but I do love a good
(37:54):
email.
So, yeah, people are more likeforgiving with emails.
But I think the same principlesapply, right?
No, I think you're right theright timing, right right
message to the right person andstuff like that.
But even with the emails, we docollect zero party data about
like your preferences, like whatdo you want to see in your
inbox?
What you don't want to see?
Maybe you want to put youremails on hold for 30 days.
(38:17):
Maybe you only want to receivelike promotional emails from us.
So that's like a big portion ofwhat we're doing.
Andri, do you have anything toadd?
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, same, agree with everything you just said.
And also, it's so easy tounsubscribe from email.
You just type in stop Becauseemails, emails is sorry, sms was
emails you.
There's preference page.
There is like hey, why you'reunsubscribing?
There's like now they have oneclick unsubscribe, but still it
(38:46):
redirects you to different pagewith SMS.
So you just need to be morecareful.
Okay, and last questions for mein terms of cost efficiencies,
in comparing not sure if you runsome kind of test, but
collecting phone numbers for SMSthrough high tide versus just
(39:07):
organic, like somebody visitingthe website providing their
phone number on the opt in formhave you run any tasks and
compare the cost?
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah.
So there's a couple of ways tothink about this.
There's a couple of componentsto the cost for a high tide
campaign.
One is the cost of our, of our,you know, saas costs, which are
, you know, range anywhere from.
We do have a free plan, but ourtypical brand is paying
anywhere from 150 to like 350bucks on average.
(39:38):
There's some usage basedcomponents built in and then
there's the cost of the campaign, which could be, you know, if
you're doing a, if you'repromoting a drop, for example,
and you're putting up images ofthe product or teasing the
product or whatever, there'szero cost.
If you're doing a giveaway, thatyou know cost might be a $300
value of something that, as abrand, depending on your margins
(40:00):
, it might cost you 30 bucks or150 bucks, whatever the cost of
the product is.
We typically compare that todiscount oriented opt in.
So the reality is, most brands,vast majority of their phone
numbers, are captured throughdiscount pop ups and so if
(40:20):
you're looking at an average AOV, let's use that, use a hundred
bucks because it's easiest, anda 10% pop up, you know, 10% off
somewhere around the 10% sorry,$10 cost to consumer.
So maybe that, maybe that phonenumber is costing you as a
brand, five bucks or four bucksor something in that range.
By using engagement typestrategies and campaigns that
(40:44):
are, you know, up, more aroundproducts coming, connecting
people with intent to buy, orwait listing or early access or
VIP club or you know whatever,or like a giveaway prize, you
can drive those costsdramatically down, and that's
that's one of the most excitingparts about this.
You know this platform.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Cool.
Well thank you so much, Jesse.
It was so fun talking to you.
We love having like a goodemail and SMS nerds on this
podcast.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I love it.
I love it.
I'm only wondering one thing,which is when is the podcast
name going to be changed toemail and SMS?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Actually it's funny that you mentioned it, Jesse.
Go ahead, Andri.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Yeah, we are right now we thinking about to change
it in not to be more email orSMS specific, but more
e-commerce and more brands,cover more brands, stories and
success stories and things thatwe can learn from successful
brands, but it's still in work.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Amazing.
Well, you both run a fantasticpodcast.
I've listened to Thank you Afew episodes in the past and
look forward to listening more,and it's been an honor to come
on and talk about commerce withyou guys.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Thank you so much, jesse, it was so much fun having
you on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Thank you, see you next Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
See you next Tuesday everyone Take care.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Bye.
Thanks for listening to Email.
Einstein.
Can you feel that yourmarketing brain just got a
little bit bigger?
We ask that you please use itwisely.
You've got all the theory youneed to get out there and start
boosting your sales, becausegreat emails equals revenue
squared.
Welcome to email Einstein, a podcast by Floium.
It's time to start honoringyour inner marketing Einstein.
Tune in for the data-driventips that'll make you a
marketing genius.
Here you'll find emailmarketing formulas and tips
straight from the brilliant madscientists at Floium.
It's time for your emails tostart earning more money.
It's time to unleash yourEinstein.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, hello everyone and welcome back to email
Einstein.
The podcast by Floium.
We are your host, vera Sadlak.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I'm Andrey Bocz.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And we are pumped to have you guys back with us
because today we have a veryspecial guest with us today to
discuss all things SMS listgrowth.
So today we have a specialguest joining us Jesse Clemens,
co-founder and CEO of Hi-Tite.
Hi-tite is the app that isrevolutionizing the game for
(00:55):
e-commerce brands with theirinnovative approach to SMS list
growth through social DMautomations, and we are
definitely going to go indetails and we're going to
discuss this amazing tech anddetails.
But before we go there, say hi,jesse, we're so happy to have
you on this podcast today.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate the chanceto join and talk SMS.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, we just had a quick chat before I start
heading to record.
But Jesse is calling us fromNew York and I'm also in New
York and we have what?
Three inches of snow in thecity, which never sleeps, stops
when it snows.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yes, and I have my warm cup of coffee.
I'm bundled up inside, lookingat the snow globe outside and
ready to talk SMS, as one doeson a snow day.
Oh, that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I'm so jealous of you guys.
Oh sorry, andrea, I just wantedto add a few things about this
snow topic.
I'm so jealous of youexperiencing this right now.
I actually got myself ticketsto Finland in hope of seeing
snow this year for the firsttime, so hopefully I'm going to
be able to see this snow thisyear, but if not, I'm just going
(02:08):
to watch Andrea's Insta stories.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Nice thanks, Amazing.
I hope you have a fantasticFinland trip.
Are you going cross countryskiing by any chance?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
No, I'm just going for a weekend to see the snow
and going back becauseeverything gets so close here
there you go, there you go.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
I'm jealous.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, nice, nice.
Before we start the full globeinterview, we have a quick Q&A
questions to know you better.
Are you good with that?
Yeah, let's do it, sure.
So let's do it Facebook orInstagram.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Oh, all right.
So we're doing rapid fire.
Choose one.
I'm going to go with Instagram,the best platform for.
Sms growth, of course.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Desktop shopping or mobile shopping.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
You know I'm the guy that the attribution people hate
.
I browse on mobile and then Igo and purchase on desktop.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Wow, Okay, so this is question, not this or that.
Favorite app subscription.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Oh, my favorite app subscription.
I'm currently addicted to whoop, which is my wearable, not for
fitness so much, but for sleep.
I love it for sleep tracking.
So that's my current and, funnyenough, if the whoop team is
listening, my renewal is up in acouple of days.
Here my yearly subscriptionrenewal and I'm hoping to renew,
(03:31):
so that's my current fave, nice.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
If you could learn any new skill, what would it be?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
That's a good one.
I would love to be amazing atplaying the drums, which I am
not amazing at and have alwaysadmired.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Cool.
What's something on your bucketlist?
What do you have?
Something that you can share?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Oh, on my bucket list for life in general.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
This is kind of an easy one.
It's hopefully going to bequite achievable.
It's not about vacations orcrazy professional
accomplishments, but I am hopingto start a family at some point
soon.
So that's my bucket list is tobecome a dad.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
That's so cool.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Great one.
I never heard that on bucketlist, but it's cool.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, that's a good one.
Mine is more hard to.
Mine is harder to achieve.
I talked about it many times onthe podcast, but I really,
really, really want to hug apenguin and I still haven't
found a way of like doing that.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
So if you have any connections in the industry.
Well, I don't know the penguinpopulation looks like in Finland
, so I can't promise you, butwe'll take a look.
Did you ever read the book, mrPoppers Penguins as a Kid, or
see the movie?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
No, I haven't.
I grew up in Ukraine and weread like different kind of
books.
But I'm going to put this oneon my bucket list, Jesse.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
I'm going to send you a link, not to divert too much.
But the 10 second is it's abouta guy that wants to own
penguins in the city, and so hefreezes his apartment and brings
all the penguins into theapartment.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I think you saw this is a famous comedian.
Who's his name?
What is the actor team?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Oh, I don't know.
I only know it as a children'smovie.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I would, I would remember if I saw something as
legendary as this.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I think they're similar movie.
Maybe it's based on the story,but like more modern on and the
famous comedian I forgot hisname he plays, who plays down
downer and dumber.
And there's movie about alsoJim Carrey yeah, Jim Carrey.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Jim.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Carrey.
Yeah, in New York City he seeshis apartment.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
That must be the that must be the movie version.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Okay cool.
I'm going to Google it afterthe after the call Okay cool.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Andre what's?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
your bucket list Mine .
Speaker 4 (05:54):
We got to know.
The people want to know.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Always like to share it's.
I want to build the airship.
It's not spaceship airship,it's a sustainable building
based, built from garbage, andthey typically build them in
Arizona.
It's a guy I forgot his name,but he has even documentary on
Netflix how he built, how hereused like bottles, tires and
(06:17):
built those sustainable housesin in ground.
So I want to build one in in mylife.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Your bucket list items are so admirable, you guys
.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
I was going to say when, when you get that built,
I'll bring the kids, and Verabrings the penguins and we'll
have a little party.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, so I just Google it.
So the movie calls Mr PopPoppers Penguins.
That's it, that's it.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, cool, cool, cool.
I'm gonna Google it.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's a very funny movie.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Guess what I'm watching tonight.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, we do have some more serious questions, Jesse.
I promise this episode it's notgonna be only about the
penguins and stuff, but tell usmore about what you do.
What is high tide and how doesit connect to Instagram, Because
I'm still very in awe of whatyou guys are doing and tell us
(07:11):
more about it.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
And how did you come up with this name, High Tide?
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah, oh, that's another great question.
So let me briefly start withkind of the discovery of
learning about this method andwhy we wanted to build this
platform, and then I'll get intothe specifics of how it works.
On a top level, I had spent mycareer before getting to the
(07:38):
Shopify space about a year and ahalf ago.
I had spent my career in socialand specifically on social ads.
I spent almost 10 years betweenGoogle and Facebook and a
couple other programmatic adsplatforms, and as I got into the
Shopify space and learned moreabout how brands are marketing
their products, I realized thatthere was a major gap that
(08:01):
existed between brands' socialfollowings and their owned
channels email and SMS wheremany of the Shopify brands that
we all work with work so hard tobuild these non-owned
followings on social and then,often separately, are working to
build these owned channels thatthey have true control over.
(08:22):
I thought that problem wasreally interesting and I kind of
filed it away in my head and,separately, was working on a now
kind of now defunct projectthat was helping creators to
monetize their Instagrammessages.
When we first started buildingthis concept, meta had opened up
(08:42):
their Instagram Messenger APIfor the first time.
My co-founders and I thought itwould be cool to build a power
inbox for influencers andcreators.
That sorted through incomingcomments and DMs.
And, long story short, we foundout that what some of these
creators specifically those whoare selling stuff on Shopify
actually wanted was a moredependable way to reach their
(09:04):
following.
And through a series ofexperiments, we realized that
automation of messages was afantastic way to build owned
channels.
That would allow anyone thatwanted to sell stuff to their
audience the ability to convertInstagram following into an
owned channel.
And as we learned more aboutSMS, we realized that SMS
(09:27):
opt-ins, by nature of bothregulatory and kind of consumer
habits, are just tough to get.
It's expensive to acquire aphone number.
We put two and two together andlaunched this brand new
platform called Hi-Tide about ayear ago that helps brands
acquire phone numbers, and we dothat on top of the Messenger
marketing API, which I can talka little bit more about in a bit
(09:48):
.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
That's very interesting, Jesse, and just
curious can you do same thingwith emails or a similar thing
with emails?
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Yeah, so we started with SMS and we're laser focused
on SMS because it's the biggestgap in the market today.
It's hard and it's expensive toacquire phone numbers and
there's just hasn't been a tonof innovation outside of website
pop-ups for capturing SMS.
The core function of what we dois helping brands to start
(10:18):
automated short sequences viaInstagram DMs that capture data.
So if you remove the SMS partof our platform, what we really
aspire to do is be thiszero-party data collection
platform where SMS opt-ins arejust one kind of channel that we
can move people into and emailis another.
(10:41):
We don't have a full set ofemail functionality built out in
the platform today, but it'shigh on our list for stuff to do
in the future and if youimagine a DM based conversation
between a brand and a consumer,you might get people the option
to what they want to subscribeto or connect people with
whichever channel they prefer.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
So the shorter answer is not yet, but we hope to soon
, jesse, so could you pleasewalk us through the process from
A to Z in terms of how do youconvert Instagram followers into
SMS subscribers?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Yeah for sure.
Okay, so a brand on boards ontothe Hightight platform and they
connect us with three importantplatforms that they use.
The first is their SMS platform, like attentive or PostScript
or Clavio.
The second is their Instagramaccount.
They connect their Instagramaccount via this messaging API
(11:40):
that Facebook provides.
That makes it safe and, in fact, encouraged to run these types
of automations.
And then the third is theShopify connection, which we'll
talk about in a bit.
Once they're connected, a brandcan set up what we call a
keyword based trigger.
That keyword based trigger ismonitoring posts and direct
messages, looking only for veryspecific things to trigger off
(12:04):
of whether those are certainemojis or certain comments, and
when triggered, it results in ashort direct message automation
that takes the user through asequence of questions From a
user perspective, like puttingaside all the kind of like API
stuff and the technical aspectsof it.
On the front end, as a user, Imight be browsing my favorite
(12:28):
you know, say, my favoritesneaker brand.
I see a post about a product.
Let's imagine that it's a postabout, you know, a limited run
of 100 of a certain color way ofsneakers that are going to be
available in two weeks from thissneaker brand that I love.
On the post there'll be somesort of call to action it might
be, you know, comment drop toget signed up for our text alert
(12:52):
when the product is available,when I engage with that post via
comment, or it could be via astory reply or a direct message.
Hi tide is picking up thatautomation and taking me through
a private message that comesfrom the brand.
In the brand's voice thatbasically says like hey, jesse,
you know, thanks for yourinterest in this drop.
We expect these products to goquickly.
(13:13):
If you want to sign up for thelist, reply back with your phone
number and from there I'm takenthrough a short, tcpa compliant
flow.
Most importantly, high tidesjob stops at the moment of
opt-in, so we're moving peopleinto the opt-in for the platform
and then we do measurement andanalytics afterwards to show how
(13:33):
you know what kind of ROI thebrand has gotten from a campaign
like this.
But we're actually partneredwith all the SMS platforms, so
we don't send any texts.
We simply help these platformsand these brands grow their
lists faster.
And from a consumer standpointit's kind of a magic moment
because I've opted in forsomething that I want to get a
notification about in the future.
Two weeks later, I get the text.
(13:54):
I'm walking to the store, I getthe text and I'm able to buy
the thing that I wanted to buy.
At the moment, I want to buy it.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, that's very interesting and you mentioned
that you guys call yourself likea zero party data platform,
like what other kind ofinformation can you collect?
Say, is there a way to collectinformation about sneakers,
color preference and likerecorded somewhere on the
(14:23):
platform, say in Clavio, or somelike other like preferences Is
there?
Is that a thing that you can do?
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Yes.
So the beauty of the platformis that, regardless of whether
someone is a new subscriber ornot, when they interact with a
post and either input theirphone number or have input their
phone number in the past, withtheir consent, we can update the
marketing automation platformsrecord of that customer profile.
(14:51):
So, just picking randomly fromone of our many great partners
for PostScript, if you're goingthrough that flow, we can ask
you what size shoe are you Inthe case of the sneaker drop?
And PostScript has a beautifulset of APIs that they've made
available to their developerpartners that allows us to not
(15:14):
only mark that person assubscribed but actually update
them to match a particularsegment or profile, and I'm
really excited about this overthe long term.
One kind of major trend we'veheard from the marketing
automation platforms is this isthe year that they're figuring
(15:34):
out how to bring AI to beararound.
No more batch and blast techsending.
It's all about personalization.
They're best suited to do thatjob because they're storing all
these customer records andinteractions and, if I can,
alongside a brand, better fuelthat machine and help make techs
more effective, I'm reallyhappy.
(15:54):
So the idea of preference dataas one type of zero-party data
is really interesting and reallyimportant.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, that's huge.
Zero-party data is huge.
Definitely, jesse.
Maybe it's a silly question,but I'm sure a lot of people
will have it.
How is it legal?
Like seriously, how do you guysensure that a Sebastian process
remains compliant, becausethere are so many requirements
that TCPA have?
(16:24):
One of them is to have theconsent and written or
electronic signature of theperson who's agreeing to receive
SMS.
How does Hightight ensure thatthe SMS opt-in process remains
compliant?
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Yeah, that's a really , really important question.
So the way that we respect TCPAand allow brands to adhere to
TCPA is by including extremelydirect, clear and TCPA-compliant
messaging in the direct messageitself.
(17:02):
So, as a user, if I'm joining acampaign by kicking off a direct
message with a brand and thebrand is asking for my phone
number, that's all good and fine, but the moment before I'm
opting in to a text list, I haveto be presented with extremely
clear language that covers allthe TCPA requirements, including
(17:25):
language around that I'msigning up for recurring
marketing, I'm signing up forrecurring marketing messages
that consent is in the conditionto purchase and that I'm
signing up for a text list.
And the SMS platforms themselveshave done a fantastic job of
ensuring that, when brands arelaunching new opt-in flows
(17:48):
whether that's an on-site pop-upor whether that's an Instagram
story post that they'reincluding all the right language
.
And so what Hytide does is weactually sync up with the
existing TCPA language on anaccount level.
So for a given brand, with ourintegration, we pull back the
TCPA consent language and wejust replicate it in a way
(18:12):
that's clear and easy to read inthe direct message and then,
finally, the actual moment ofconsent happens through whatever
join method the platform uses.
This is getting a littletechnical, but one example is
many platforms support theability for a consumer to send
in a keyword to join a text list.
(18:33):
If you're doing SMS, you'reprobably familiar with this
experience, and so when the SMSplatform receives that keyword,
consent is logged and you'regood to go, and then from there
it's providing the ability toopt out, etc.
Etc.
We make sure that we're simplysending the user along to the
platform's existing join flowand keeping everything super
(18:57):
TCPA compliant and clear.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Just see, I have one not prepared question, but I
have to ask you because itbothers me.
So there's other players in theindustry and again they are
similar, but maybe they aredifferent.
So I want to ask you, sinceyou're in this industry, like
provider, like vendor, likeManiChat, are they a competitor
(19:21):
of yours or not?
Or they do something different?
Because it sounds very similar,but maybe I'm misunderstanding.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
This is an interesting one, so the
messaging API that Instagrambuilt has made it really, really
easy to integrate, and so, asyou would expect, there are many
solutions out there that dochat automation or that do chat
bots or that do automatedreplies, and so everything from
(19:49):
CX platforms like Gorgias, forexample, falls into this
category, in that they'reingesting messages for customer
service, down to ManiChat and afew of the others that are more
general purpose marketing tools.
The difference between Hi-Tideand anyone else out there is
that Hi-Tide is laser focused onSMS growth, and we have spent a
(20:11):
lot of time integrating intothe existing SMS partners out
there, as opposed to trying tocompete with our own texting
service, and so, with Hi-Tide,we've assembled something in a
unique way that provides extremevalue to a brand and allows
them to get up and running withthese types of campaigns faster
than anywhere else.
(20:32):
Could you go and put together aseries of queries to your text
provider and assemble it in oneplace, and then put together a
third party chat solution andrun some of these campaigns?
You could, with a lot of timeand effort.
We make it easy to connect infive minutes and get up and
(20:53):
running for a very low cost andhigh value, and that's how we
intend to win.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Thank you for explaining.
So you said that you triggeryour automations based on
specific keys or keywords, buton Instagram a lot of people to
grow their account, they usesome method to mention somebody
else.
Let's say, hey, mention fivepeople to get into this giveaway
(21:21):
.
So first question do you haveany strategy or does it trigger
your automations If somebodymentioned somebody else, and do
you message both people or onlyone?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
How does it work?
That's a great question.
This one actually comes upquite a bit, so we consider
tagging as one way to trigger anautomation.
A popular scenario is a brandhas collaborated with a
influencer, for example, has acollab post up and running and
both the influencer and thebrand are asking for a friend
(21:56):
tag action.
In our case, the way thatInstagram has built this
beautiful API is that you canonly run an automation in the
scenario that we're describing.
This is actually a comment,private reply from the person
that left the comment.
So while we hope that theperson they tagged might come in
and join the party and commenton that post, you're only
(22:18):
allowed to respond to thatperson that left the comment,
and that's very important cleardistinction and a clear rule
that Instagram has built toavoid spam-like behavior and all
the unwanted DM-type stuff thatyou can imagine happening
without stricter controls.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Could you walk us through an example?
Let's say, vero did thisgiveaway and I'm tagging
somebody else and I'm receivingmessages from Vero's brand.
And what kind of messages Ireceive?
Thank you for tagging.
Can you walk us through someexamples please?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah for sure.
Okay, so I'm going to use anexample of a brand that we
actually have a case study of onour website.
Check it out if you want evenmore detail.
Let me start very briefly withdescribing the objective of this
campaign and then I'll describethe actual mechanics of how the
messages worked.
So we work with a brand calledSuperbanzai.
(23:19):
Superbanzai is a new entry tothe market.
It's a very fast growinghydration solution.
So in simpler terms, it's ahangover cure or a supplement
that helps with hangovers.
You drink it the night, you'reout for a bunch of drinks or the
next morning, and they aregrowing this brand very fast.
(23:44):
They were launching in a newchannel.
They're on Shopify, they werelaunching their Amazon store and
they were, at the same time,launching their SMS program.
So they happened to have chosenPostScript for their SMS
platform and they came to us andthey were like, hey, we want to
do this giveaway and ourobjective is to get as many new
(24:05):
SMS subscribers as possible forthe lowest possible cost, and we
want to do it around the Amazongiveaway.
So we want to like, kind ofpair it with this Amazon launch
and do a giveaway around it.
In their case, you can imagine apost.
The post was about, I believeit was an Amazon gift
certificate plus some freeproduct, and the post had a very
(24:30):
clear caption that said hey,here's what we're giving away
and here's how to enter.
Yes, this is it for anyonewatching the video that's up on
the screen.
Now the case study In thecaption.
The caption had one of therequirements of the giveaway as
tag a friend to enter thecampaign, when or actually, let
me be clear.
It said tag a friend and we'llDM you to finalize your entry to
(24:55):
the campaign.
And in their case, when someoneentered the giveaway, tagged a
friend, they expected to receivea DM and, sure enough, seconds
later they received a DM thatsaid hey, here's the last step
for joining this giveaway.
That's your phone number forjoining our text list, and
included all the TCPA language,and then that was kind of the
(25:17):
last step for entering thisgiveaway.
So those are the mechanics.
The results were they actuallydid a collab on this one that
reached 60 times their followeraccount, so it was super high
engagement.
It was kind of a carefullyselected collaboration that was
within their kind of brand worldand I believe it was like 20, I
think it was 24 cents persubscriber was the cost for net
(25:40):
new subscribers, which if youthink about a percentage
discount, that's really great.
And then you know they'retracking some conversion stats
down the line, so they're superhappy with this one.
It jumpstarted their postscript list in a way that the
you know day by day drip ofpeople joining a pop up just
can't compete with, and they'vemaintained a pretty high opt-in
(26:01):
rate for this one, which is alsoimportant.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah.
So just like to confirm, jesse.
So say I tagged Andrew.
Andrew will receive, like, somesort of message from you as
well right?
Speaker 4 (26:15):
No, no, so only the person that leaves the initial
comment gets a message.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Hopefully you will have received a notification
from Andre.
Oh, andre, tagged in this post.
You'll check it out if you'reinterested, you might join, but
otherwise it's.
One comment results in onemessage.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
I just wanted to add the other cool thing about this
campaign.
I mentioned it quickly, inpassing, but this is an
important part of the strategythe way that Instagram has built
collab posts.
If you're collabing with eitheranother brand or a influencer,
you can find the link in thedescription below.
I think people are probablyfamiliar with the cloud post but
, briefly, it shows up in bothfeeds.
If you're the primary post, youactually have control over the
(26:57):
comments and you can run anautomation like this so that if
people are coming from anotheraudience, even if they joined
that post through theinfluencers feed, for example,
we can capture phone numbers ata very high rate, which is an
added bonus of this strategy forthis particular client.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I recently just found out maybe it's not recent news,
but I recently found out thatyou are able to collaborate with
multiple brands.
In the past, you just were ableto do it only one, but now
you're multiple people, multiplebrands.
That's right.
Not sure what the limit is, butit's cool.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
At one point it was six.
I haven't seen people do toomany more than six.
I think in practice now theymay have opened it up further,
but it's a really cool feature.
Actually, I think it's one ofthe top underrated features on
social right now.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, I wonder what the LTV of those people who are
coming organically versus peoplewho are coming through this
giveaway type of posts are.
Maybe you guys have someinsights.
I'm just curious whether or notit makes sense even to invest
in those giveaways.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah, that's a great question.
This is one of the things wewere unsure of at the beginning
because we're like, hey, we havethis tactic that we know works
really well for SMS list growth,but does it convert?
Obviously we have.
I think we have now close to 12different campaign types where
giveaways are one campaign type,but in the early days most of
(28:28):
the campaigns were giveaways.
It's now balanced out a bitmore.
One of the things that wasextremely important to us when
we're building this platform andthe V1 of it the dirty MVP
version of this thing was how dowe track ROI on these campaigns
?
Brands are running giveawaysall the time, not just with high
(28:50):
tide, obviously Objective formany of those campaigns.
They're often run by the socialteams where the objective is
gain more followers.
It's a successful tactic forgaining more followers and
getting engagement up on theaccount overall.
But there's this constantquestion of like, what's my ROI
and are those people that arefollowing from these campaigns
or are they actually worthwhileadditions to my audience?
(29:13):
Where on social, follower countis follower count and there's
no added cost per se if you'readding a bunch of low-intent
people On SMS it's actually theopposite the more low-intent
people you get on the text list,the more turn you're going to
get, and also, you might just besending expensive text messages
to people that don't care aboutyour brand and don't want to
(29:33):
buy anything, alright.
So the way that we solved thiswas, importantly we integrated
into Shopify and then, for eachcampaign, say it's a giveaway.
For the giveaway campaign, wemap purchases in Shopify to the
phone number that's beencollected in order to show down
to the scent, how many purchasesare coming out of that audience
(29:54):
that's been collected, andthat's how we measure ROI for
the brand.
And what we found which waslike surprising and a happy
outcome for us in the verybeginning was these giveaways do
actually perform in terms ofROI, sometimes very
substantially.
You have a lot of people thatare already huge fans of the
(30:15):
brand on Instagram and, forwhatever reason, they haven't
had the incentive, they haven'tgotten the pop-up, they haven't
gone over to the website lately,or maybe they even churned off
of the text list, and so postslike this are a really great way
, that is now fullyROI-measurable, to get those
people back on the text list.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, interesting Guys.
I just want to share a fewreally, really interesting stats
that I got from one of theseclaveo studies that they've done
recently.
I actually found out that 95%of people that they had in their
study they say that they aresubscribed to less than seven
brands on SMS.
(30:54):
That's such a big commitment,right, like when you're getting
someone's email.
It's probably not as big of adeal as it is when you're
getting an SMS, and I amsubscribed to three or four
brands, so that's getting thatSMS is huge, that's a great stat
To me.
(31:15):
Honestly, I expected this numberto be higher, but then I
analyzed what brands I'msubscribed to and it's just
maybe five brands.
Yeah, that's true, but yeah,what brands are you following on
SMS?
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Oh man.
So, firstly, I'm subscribed tomany more than seven, by nature
of I subscribe for research andsubscribe to follow the brands
that we work with.
So everyone from Seek to agreat underwear brand called
NADS to Superbond's, I'm gettingtext all the time and it's
(31:49):
actually a pretty fun way tostay on top of what my brands
are doing.
So, personal standpoint, I amsubscribed to a great service
called Bottomless that sends mecoffee on a regular basis and
they do an amazing job of SMSmarketing, both from a
transactional standpoint butalso, you know, kind of sharing
(32:11):
about the brands that are coffeebrands that are launching on
their platform.
So that's one that I love.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, that's nice.
So you are an experienced SMSuser, I guess.
So from your standpoint maybemore as a user and not as the
owner of this platform how canbrands ensure that they maintain
that momentum from theirsuccessful SMS list gross
campaigns and maximize thepotential of this new acquired
(32:38):
contacts?
Do you have any recommendation?
Are there any specificstrategies or tactics that you
can recommend?
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Yeah.
So there's obviously a hugebody of work around effectively
using an SMS list in general, soI won't really touch on any of
that stuff.
You guys could probably teachme a lot about that.
What I do know about is, youknow, for some of these social
campaigns, effectivesegmentation is really really
(33:06):
important, and then you knowbeing aware of where that person
is landing in your existingflows or existing setups.
What I mean by that is, you know, typically a brand will come to
us.
They have two objectives.
Number one they have somethingyou know that they're dropping
soon, a new product that'sreleasing.
Maybe they have, you know, anew fashion capsule.
(33:29):
Whatever it is, there'ssomething going on that they
want to run a campaign around,because that tends to work
really well for social and doesa great job of pulling in
high-intent people.
Making sure that you're bothsegmenting the users that have
interacted with the campaign ona very granular level and also
getting those people into theproper welcome flows if they're
(33:50):
new subscribers and like tellingthe difference between a new
subscriber versus someone elsethat has joined in the past or
that is an existing subscriberthese are all fairly simple
settings in the customerautomation platform, but just
being thoughtful about whatmessage you want to send to who
is the whole name of the game,and it's just as important for
(34:11):
this channel as for an overallprogram.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Or, even more important, I got this like again
, going back to my stats, I lovegood stats.
Going back to this study byClavio, they actually asked
people what are the main reasonsconsumers unsubscribed from SMS
program.
And okay, let's play a gamewhat do you guys think is the
number one reason why peopleunsubscribe from SMS programs?
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Too many SMS.
Too many texts.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Too many texts, like 73% of like responders said that
yeah, too many SMSes is likenumber one reason why they would
unsubscribe.
Also, people said that the samemessage many times is like a
big reason to unsubscribe.
Or messages that don't have apurpose.
To be honest, they don'tnecessarily understand what it
(35:02):
means like probably likemessages without clear.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
How much purpose can you put in those 166 characters?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
But I mean you can, you just have to be very like
purposefully using the CTAsright when you're sending
traffic.
Good, clear call to action,like.
I've noticed that like I meanbrands that I work with every
time we send the link to like ablog post or something this
SMSes are not performing as wellas, say, promotional SMS with
(35:35):
like link to the productdirectly.
But that's just like myexperience.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
I think that you know this is, you know, getting a
little further into general SMSbest practice world.
That I said I wasn't going tocomment on, but I think, like
you know, it's about valueexchange.
Actually, that text has to bevaluable in some way, whether
that's just timely or whetherit's actually, like you know,
thoughtful content.
For example, for this coffeecompany that I was talking about
(36:01):
, this is not what they're doing.
This is an imaginary example.
I would much rather you know,know which two coffees are, you
know, coming up and, like Idon't know, maybe a line or two
about what makes them special,maybe like what region did they
come from?
Who's the farmer that producedthem?
That sort of thing, as opposedto what I don't want is I don't
(36:21):
want a coffee joke of the dayhitting my inbox at 7.30,
preparing for my morning meetingbecause, like you know, maybe
that's fun the first time butit's going to get old quickly.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
But I think if I ask the same question, you and Vera
Vera probably will prefer coffeejoke every morning.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yes, that's a good point.
That's what.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
I was about to say.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It all comes down to like understanding who your
audience is.
I guess right, yeah, Always,always.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
I wonder how you know .
One area I'd like to learn alot more about is email.
How does all this stuff compareto email?
Is it, you know, kind of thesame general principles, or is
there anything dramaticallydifferent when it comes to
retention for opt-ins andsubscribes In comparison?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
to what SMS.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Vera go ahead.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I mean in email you work with a bigger real estate,
right?
The email itself is bigger, soyou can definitely be more
adventurous with a copy.
You can be.
People are more forgiving withemails.
You know, sms is like morepersonal, almost Like I'm very
careful with who I give my SMSnumber to.
(37:31):
With emails I'm like I had likea bad word in my head for that.
But with emails I'm veryadventurous.
I get my email to like everyonelike seriously, no, it's bad,
it's like bad.
Every morning I wake up to likea hundred unanswered like
promotional emails.
But that's maybe that's a partof the job.
That's what I want to believeanyways, but I do love a good
(37:54):
email.
So, yeah, people are more likeforgiving with emails.
But I think the same principlesapply, right?
No, I think you're right theright timing, right right
message to the right person andstuff like that.
But even with the emails, we docollect zero party data about
like your preferences, like whatdo you want to see in your
inbox?
What you don't want to see?
Maybe you want to put youremails on hold for 30 days.
(38:17):
Maybe you only want to receivelike promotional emails from us.
So that's like a big portion ofwhat we're doing.
Andri, do you have anything toadd?
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, same, agree with everything you just said.
And also, it's so easy tounsubscribe from email.
You just type in stop Becauseemails, emails is sorry, sms was
emails you.
There's preference page.
There is like hey, why you'reunsubscribing?
There's like now they have oneclick unsubscribe, but still it
(38:46):
redirects you to different pagewith SMS.
So you just need to be morecareful.
Okay, and last questions for mein terms of cost efficiencies,
in comparing not sure if you runsome kind of test, but
collecting phone numbers for SMSthrough high tide versus just
(39:07):
organic, like somebody visitingthe website providing their
phone number on the opt in formhave you run any tasks and
compare the cost?
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah.
So there's a couple of ways tothink about this.
There's a couple of componentsto the cost for a high tide
campaign.
One is the cost of our, of our,you know, saas costs, which are
, you know, range anywhere from.
We do have a free plan, but ourtypical brand is paying
anywhere from 150 to like 350bucks on average.
(39:38):
There's some usage basedcomponents built in and then
there's the cost of the campaign, which could be, you know, if
you're doing a, if you'repromoting a drop, for example,
and you're putting up images ofthe product or teasing the
product or whatever, there'szero cost.
If you're doing a giveaway, thatyou know cost might be a $300
value of something that, as abrand, depending on your margins
(40:00):
, it might cost you 30 bucks or150 bucks, whatever the cost of
the product is.
We typically compare that todiscount oriented opt in.
So the reality is, most brands,vast majority of their phone
numbers, are captured throughdiscount pop ups and so if
(40:20):
you're looking at an average AOV, let's use that, use a hundred
bucks because it's easiest, anda 10% pop up, you know, 10% off
somewhere around the 10% sorry,$10 cost to consumer.
So maybe that, maybe that phonenumber is costing you as a
brand, five bucks or four bucksor something in that range.
By using engagement typestrategies and campaigns that
(40:44):
are, you know, up, more aroundproducts coming, connecting
people with intent to buy, orwait listing or early access or
VIP club or you know whatever,or like a giveaway prize, you
can drive those costsdramatically down, and that's
that's one of the most excitingparts about this.
You know this platform.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Cool.
Well thank you so much, Jesse.
It was so fun talking to you.
We love having like a goodemail and SMS nerds on this
podcast.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I love it.
I love it.
I'm only wondering one thing,which is when is the podcast
name going to be changed toemail and SMS?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Actually it's funny that you mentioned it, Jesse.
Go ahead, Andri.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Yeah, we are right now we thinking about to change
it in not to be more email orSMS specific, but more
e-commerce and more brands,cover more brands, stories and
success stories and things thatwe can learn from successful
brands, but it's still in work.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Amazing.
Well, you both run a fantasticpodcast.
I've listened to Thank you Afew episodes in the past and
look forward to listening more,and it's been an honor to come
on and talk about commerce withyou guys.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Thank you so much, jesse, it was so much fun having
you on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Thank you, see you next Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
See you next Tuesday everyone Take care.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Bye.
Thanks for listening to Email.
Einstein.
Can you feel that yourmarketing brain just got a
little bit bigger?
We ask that you please use itwisely.
You've got all the theory youneed to get out there and start
boosting your sales, becausegreat emails equals revenue
squared.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.