February 9, 2026 • 42 mins
Ever wonder why a baby struggles to latch, a four-year-old snores like a grown-up, or an adult wakes with jaw pain and a headache? We go straight to the source with Nicole, a clinician who blends speech-language pathology, lactation consulting, myofunctional therapy, and craniosacral work to restore oral function and protect the airway across the lifespan. We share the real signs that matter, the myths to ignore, and how small, strategic changes can transform feeding, sleep, posture, and overall health.
We walk through the basics of tongue ties and oral tethers—what they are, how they form in utero, and why they don’t simply “stretch out.” Nicole explains how restricted tongues and tight fascia push kids toward mouth breathing, enlarged tonsils, and restless sleep, and why dental crowding is often a late-stage clue that oral function has been off for years. For adults, the pattern looks like TMJ pain, grinding, neck tension, and snoring. You’ll hear how gentle bodywork prepares the system for change, how myofunctional therapy acts like PT for the mouth and face, and why the best outcomes come from coordinated care with dentists, ENTs, OTs, PTs, and IBCLCs.
We also get practical. You’ll learn red flags you shouldn’t ignore—noisy breathing, snoring, upside-down sleeping, open-mouth chewing, hand-in-mouth while eating—and green flags that suggest a phase of normal selectivity. We cover what a release procedure involves, how to choose a skilled provider, and when to prioritize nasal breathing training or ENT evaluation. Most of all, we focus on plans that fit real family life: fewer, smarter exercises, clear goals, and compassionate coaching that honors mental health. If you’ve been told to “wait it out,” this conversation gives you tools, language, and next steps to advocate with confidence.
If this resonates, follow and share with someone who needs it, and leave a quick review to help other families find trustworthy, whole-body solutions.
Here are the links for the clinic.
Nicole Edwin, M.S., CCC-SLP, IBCLC
Integrative Oral Functional Therapist & Lactation Consultant
https://abeillespeechandfeeding.com/
https://www.facebook.com/share/1Ju75fPjpV/?mibextid=wwXIfr
https://www.instagram.com/stl.feedingclinic?igsh=dG45amplY2c0NGx0
And our podcast link
https://www.instagram.com/spillyourmilkpod?igsh=MWo5b3gwdGw1cDZqZA==
https://open.spotify.com/show/3uFYW95CRBZsp8NT3ArMpd?si=WPNLfBHbTmKxI9jmIpL6UA
Join the Newsletter
https://themoonflowercoachingcollective.com/podcast-empowered-ease/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Podcast.
This is season two, episodefive, and today's guest is
someone who lives and breatheswhole family, whole body care.
Nicole is the co-owner of AbeFeeding Clinic.
She's also an integrative oralfunctional therapist, a licensed
speech language pathologist, aninternational board-certified
(01:27):
lactation consultant, amyofunctional therapist, and a
craniosacral therapist.
She has dedicated her adult lifeto understanding how the body
and oral function are deeplyconnected, how feeding,
breathing, and oral developmentcan impact everything from sleep
to posture to overall health.
What makes her work so unique isher gentle integrative approach.
(01:50):
She weaves body work,orthodontics, functional
medicine, and medical providersto offer truly comprehensive
support.
Nicole works with patientsacross the lifespan, newborns
with complex breastfeedingchallenges, toddlers with airway
concerns, school-age kids withtooth crowding and oral
dysfunction, and adults dealingwith TMJ pain, head and neck
(02:13):
tension, and also snoring.
Her journey began with twotongue-tied infants, inspired by
her own feeding experiences withher own babies, and now she has
expanded to caring for entirefamilies because not all oral
ties are caught in infancy.
Outside the clinic, Nicole isknown for her big, beautiful
(02:34):
family, her deep roots in herlocal parish and
self-sufficiency lifestyle thatincludes homeschooling, caring
for her animals, collectinghoney and eggs, processing meat,
and cheering her seven kids onfor the side from the sidelines
of various sports.
Faith, family, and serving hercommunity are the heart of
everything she does.
Nicole, I am so excited to haveyou on the show.
(02:57):
Welcome.
Well, welcome, Nicole.
I'm so excited to have you here.
So reading all of these lists ofthings that you are with the
integrative oral functionaltherapist, licensed speech,
(03:17):
language, pathologists, allthese lactation consultant,
myofunctional therapists,craniosacral.
Well, how do all those fittogether and what does all that
mean?
SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
I think a lot of people look at that and they're
like, oh, you do all thesethings, but it's that's not
true.
The way I've added all of mydifferent skill sets, if you
will, over the years have reallyjust helped me to laser focus on
what I do.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Okay.
So basically you're focusing onthe babies and the swallowing,
or all of that just related toswallowing?
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
All of it related to yeah, oral function, and it's
such a bigger picture than that.
Okay.
And it allows me to see what'sgoing on, but not get lost with
all the other things that arefactors.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
Okay.
So you take these and you focusin on the education into your
practice of oral function.
SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Oh, like you hear the phrase, if all you have is a
hammer, everything looks like anail.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Love it.
Okay, so you got into thisbecause you had two babies.
Well, I have had five.
But two that were tongue-tied.
I thought you had seven.
So two stepkids.
Okay, okay.
So if seven total children,you've had five.
And how many of your babies weretongue-tied?
Like all of them.
All of them.
Okay, okay, okay.
So tell me like what that is,how you figured that out, and
(04:47):
how that like got you into this.
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
It was my second one was definitely the catalyst.
I was young, I mean older, butyoung in the field, new in the
field as a speech pathologistand pediatrics.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
Okay, so you already had that going for you.
SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
Okay.
But never in swallowing.
You know, it's like you don'tlearn that in school.
It's one of those things thatthey don't teach that, or they
do, they it's like a one-daylong class.
Okay.
You know.
So you really have to do a lotof continuing it in order to be
a feeding, be a feedingspecialist, regardless really of
the age, but especiallypediatrics.
(05:26):
And so I ran into so many issuesfeeding him and not even knowing
that he was tied.
I just knew that we werestruggling and I was in a lot of
pain.
And I was in rural Missouri andthere was just nobody there to
help me.
And you know, we figured it out.
Eventually, he had a lip tierelease, and there's a like a
long story to him.
What's pretty cool about ourpodcast that we do is one of our
(05:49):
episodes is dedicated solely tothat.
But what I realized, and reallyhow I always think, is like I
can do this.
This isn't my scope of practice.
I just don't have that skill setyet.
And so he was definitely thecatalyst, and he is 12 years old
now.
(06:09):
So he was the catalyst that sentme into lactation because I
really just wasn't finding muchof anything in the tongue tai
world as a speech pathologist.
Like it exists now more in ourfield, but I it was talked about
so much more in lactation.
I'm like, okay, well, lactationobviously there's a lot of
components to it that it areoutside of the infant.
(06:32):
But when it comes to a breastfedbaby, speech pathologists at the
time knew nothing about them,you know.
So we could never take thebreastfed baby and apply the
knowledge that we had forswallowing because the it's just
so dynamically different, andthere's just so many variables
that I was like, okay, well, asa speech pathologist, I'm gonna
(06:54):
learn about pediatric feeding,and then I'm gonna get lactation
trained.
And eventually that led to mebecoming an international board
certified lactation consultantlong before it was popular.
I mean, it was only five yearsago, but the speech pathologist
becoming a lactation consultantis becoming more trendy now
(07:16):
because more of us understandthat that we need to understand
both.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
I was gonna say, but it sounds like they're like what
a great like naturally, right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
They really do.
And then you know, you go to thehospital setting and those two
fields are fighting each otherwhen you could just work
together.
SPEAKER_01 (07:31):
Yeah, yeah.
My my most of my experience withspeech is I work up in a neuro
ICU nurse, so it's always likestroke swallowing after a
stroke.
So that's a lot of what we do.
I would never like in my worldconnect all these things.
So before we get past this, I dowant to ask you for people that
may not know, because I don'tthink I know exactly either.
What does tongue tied mean?
I I think there's probablydifferent ways to be tongue
(07:51):
tied, but what does it mean whena baby's tongue-tied?
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
Yeah, and there's there's more than just the
tongue.
You know, we can we can havetethers, we just call them oral
tethers, would be like ageneralized term.
So it's structural restriction.
So we have most free we havefrenoms in the body, much more
than just the mouth, but one,you know, obviously that I'm
working with is going to be thelip, the buckles, and the tongue
(08:16):
most frequently.
And so when somebody says tonguetie, you know, they might also
be referring to another tether,but it's structural restriction,
and it's something that happensin utero that is supposed to
happen and doesn't.
So it's called apoptosis.
There's like a ton ofinformation on it, you know, and
so that tissue is supposed tobasically go away, and sometimes
(08:37):
it doesn't.
SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
And my husband has like extra tissue in the roof of
his throat, and he likes there'scertain foods he won't eat
because he has like stuff willget stuck there.
He hates it.
And I'm like, he's dumb tight ofit, he doesn't even know it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
He could be well, and that's kind of like how I
got into working with adultstoo, and older kids, because not
everybody's caught as a baby,like we love working with babies
because, like, can we resolveall of these issues and get
optimal breastfeeding?
Because that is what like leadsfirst to so much success in
growth and development, likeneurologically, structurally,
(09:13):
all of these things, and so noteverybody gets caught.
So it's like super common for meto be working with a baby in a
family and like dad's in thecorner, like shrinking a little
bit, like, oh, that's oh shit,that's me, or right, or like
I'll start.
Some families not to get arelease, too, which is fine, and
we can kind of talk about whatthat means later, too.
(09:35):
And we definitely supportfamilies, right?
I've always very much supportedfamilies to be like, hey, if
you're not comfortable withthis, I totally understand.
Like, we're gonna make feedingwork the best we can, whatever
that looks like.
Now, these are the things youwant to look for as your baby
becomes an older child thatmight lead to us needing to
revisit this or at least justchecking back in with me because
(09:57):
like we don't want these thingsto get worse.
So it's it's so common then asI'm talking about those
symptoms, and I'm working with ababy and a mom, and they're
like, Oh my gosh, that soundslike my four-year-old, or that
sounds like my seven-year-old.
Like, bring them in when we'redone with baby.
Bring them in.
I the amount of fan wholefamilies I see is I don't know,
(10:21):
it's pretty significant.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
And it's interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
Not uncommon for me to be like, see a dad and a
daughter, or a mom and a son, orhow does it manifest in like
thing in um ages that aren'tbabies that they would know?
The biggest thing I I work withas a myofunctional therapist, so
that's just what that is isspecialized training in oral and
(10:45):
facial and and really even neckand respiration.
I mean, it kind of all gets tiedtogether.
But as a myofunctionaltherapist, you're working with
an older child, generallyspeaking, somebody who's gonna
be able to follow directions.
Like, we're not doingmyofunctional therapy on a baby.
We're working on oral functionfor swallowing, for speech, for
breathing.
(11:05):
But what I'm seeing usually atlike the four-year-old age is
gonna be enlarged tonsilsbecause a lot of those kiddos
are also mouth breathing.
A snoring child, you've got anoisy breather, you've got a
kiddo that has symptoms likeage, maybe is actually sleep
disordered breathing.
Mmm, yeah.
(11:25):
So that and then like seven andeleven is like the next two age
ranges I see a lot that areusually it's dental crowding.
It's like that's a huge, oh,okay, we're getting ready for
orthodontics because they have areally narrow palate and there's
not enough room for their teeth.
So now they're gonna go see theorthodontists.
But the root reason of why theyhave a crowded mouth or like
(11:50):
their teeth are crowded, isbecause oral function was
impaired for one reason oranother.
Whether it was a time or not,there's other reasons too.
SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
Interesting.
I'm learning so much.
I had no idea about any of thisstuff.
I love it, it's so interesting.
But that's I mean, it's adifferent population, it tends
to be just more pain because,like, when you have dysfunction
all of your life, it leads tochronic migraines, head and neck
pain, snoring, grinding yourteeth, all of the things that
(12:21):
just lead to interesting thatthey could all be have related
to this kind of issue.
Is there any like myths ormisunderstandings that come with
this kind of work?
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
Absolutely.
Like what?
If you release your tongue, yourthroat's gonna or your your
tongue's gonna fall back in yourthroat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (12:42):
Or it'll stretch out and it doesn't tissue, like
think kind of tendinous tissue,tissue, it's really fibrous.
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Oh, yeah, like usually gets tighter when you
hurt it, not looser.
That's the very end.
SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Exactly.
And like that's the differencebetween being able to loosen up
fascia.
So, like, that's such a hugecomponent of working with any
age, is we want to make surethat the fascia is as receptive
to change as possible.
You obviously need more, I andbody work is obviously a
component.
Like when you read the list ofall the things that I do, I'm
(13:21):
also a cranial sacral therapist.
And that you see, even morerarely, especially in the speech
pathology world, I've been doingthat for almost 12 years now.
And that was brought on, oh,excuse me, 11 years.
That was brought on by my thirdson.
And so what I love aboutcraniocral therapy is I'm able
to help bodies, regardless ofthe age, release tension that
(13:47):
might be inhibiting them, thatmight look like a tie.
Because it's not always a tie.
There can be restriction andthere can be dysfunction that's
actually so it helps to be ableto like filter out those
different components that, youknow, like I said, if we go back
to the hammer and a nail, if youthink everything is a nail, or
if you're a hammer, everythinglooks like a nail.
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
Okay, so sorry, my dog is whining at the door.
She's such a little turd.
But so what kind of when you'reworking with people, those like
hands-on, are we doing like whatkind of things are you doing
with people to help with theseissues?
What does that kind of work looklike?
And even with babies, what doesthat look like?
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Yeah, it looks different for each age
population.
I specialize in infants for along time.
And what's really fantasticabout the team that we've built
is we've also trained ourproviders to also become really
dynamic in being able to utilizebod or be therapists and
lactation consultants, you know.
(14:47):
So I don't treat babies as oftenas I used to because we have a
really, really good team.
And so whenever somebody's like,hey, I need my hands, you know,
I need your hands on this baby,or I need a second opinion, or
I'm struggling with this baby,that's when I'm gonna be seeing
those babies.
And then we don't have any othermyofunctional therapists on our
(15:07):
team right now.
Hopefully we will at some point.
And so then I'm seeing the adultpopulation, the older children.
And so myofunctional therapywith child and an older adult
will also almost look think PTfor the mouth, the face and the
mouth.
It's kind of like that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
So you're giving them kind of exercises, things
to do at home and continue.
Okay.
But like the way that I'mdifferent from any other
traditional myofunctionaltherapist is that I incorporate
bod.
And so it's really common to belike, oh, okay, do you can't do
this, so do these exercises.
But I'm gonna look at it throughanother lens of being like,
(15:47):
okay, you're really workingunder a lot of restriction
because of this much tension.
Let's resolve some of thistension, let's soften things,
and then slowly build you upwith less exercise because
you're not working around othertension patterns.
SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
Okay.
So, what is like so if you ifyou are to find out this is you
at an older age, because I'mreading like things like TMJ,
pain, snoring can all be fromoral issues.
What are people's options?
So, like this kind of work whenyou were talking about
releasing, what is that?
Kind of is that only for babies,or do adults find ties and get
(16:26):
them released?
SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
I had my tongue tie release at 36.
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
What is that like?
Do they go snip it?
That's what I'm imagining.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Like a laser, so our best providers, you know, I'm
not married to any specificlaser or tool because to be very
fair, you can have a releaseprovider that uses the scissors
and does a beautiful job, andyou can have a provider that
uses a really big expensivelaser and they do a terrible
job.
So just making sure that you'reworking with a provider that's
(16:56):
very skilled and knowledgeableis what you want.
But most often we're workingwith release providers that are
most commonly dentists, and theyhave a lot of extensive training
because most dentists reallyaren't taught anything about the
tongue.
So don't be surprised when yougo to your dentist and say, I
think I have a tongue tie, andthey're like, That's not a real
thing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:15):
Yeah, because you'd think he would have told you
before now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Exactly.
Or why are you grinding yourteeth?
Or why do you have all this?
Yeah, why do you have TMD?
So why don't you have TMJdysfunction?
You know, yeah.
Unfortunately, just like thespeech pathologist world,
there's not a ton of training inties.
And just like in the medicalfield, whether it's mental or
it's physicians, they don't havea lot of extra training in that
(17:40):
unless they really specificallyseek it out, which those of us
that are in the world of oraldysfunction have really sought
that out.
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
So if someone is listening to their this and
they're like, This is might belike I maybe this is what's
going on with me.
Like, are well, are there anyother signs?
I guess before I ask you thisquestion, are there any other
signs people should look for?
Like, I mean, I know I tried tosaid my husband has like an
extra piece of skin he's awareof.
I don't think he knows what thatmeans.
He just like lives with it.
But are there other things likethat that people just have that
(18:11):
maybe they've like gotten usedto?
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
So the yeah, the biggest thing like with babies
is just difficulty feeding.
Like, if there's ever difficultyfeeding, and it doesn't matter
if it's breast or if it'sbottle, like you want to find
somebody who is a local skilledprovider and trust your gut as a
parent, regardless.
Trust your gut because there areso many people that I work with
are like, I said this, and weended up bottle feeding because
(18:35):
we couldn't make it work, and Ithought that's what was going
on, but I just kept getting toldthat's not a real thing, or
it'll stretch, or it'll break onits own, or it'll get better
with time, and it just neverdid.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
You know, it's the same thing with picky eating
because we were I was gonna askyou if picky eating was a sign
because I like my his son is asuper picky eater, and so in my
head I'm like, have we everreally looked in his mouth?
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
Well, it's totally possible.
There's so many different layersto like why somebody might be a
selective eater, you know.
Sometimes it's how it smells,how it looks, how it tastes, but
how it feels.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Yeah, his is a lot of sensory, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
And like, so in and like my very first pediatric
feeding training was moresensory based, and I think it's
so important because if youdon't address the sensory
component, like you can't evenget to the motor component
because like they don't want tolook at it, so yeah, they're
like already done.
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
No, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
Right?
Exactly.
So that was really like a keycomponent into like learning,
like, oh, there's a lot ofreasons why somebody chooses not
to eat because it's a it's notyeah, it's a choice in the sense
that like like I don't want to,but there's there are things
happening in the body that makethem truly not be able to as
(19:58):
well, and so sometimes selectiveeating comes from the inability
to be able to control that food,which is where feeding therapy
and myofunctional therapy comeinto play.
Sometimes that dysfunction isbecause the tongue is tied and
it can't move the way it needsto to hold the food in their
(20:19):
mouth in a safe way to swallow.
So then it becomes reallyunsafe.
So it's super common for likelittle kids to like always have
their hands in their mouth whenthey're eating because they're
their fingers are using the jobof their tongue.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Or oh, so they're trying to like control the food.
Interesting.
These are all things that youwould totally know.
Like a moms are probably like Iknow that kid.
SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Or like the open mouth chewer,the the kids that like super
messy and foods everywhere, orlike you can't sit at the table.
Yes, right?
Like, oh my gosh, will you justclose your mouth?
Like that sounds yes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
I've like, I can't think of a specific kid, but I
know exactly what you're saying,where they're like breathing
open mouth breathing whilethey're trying to eat.
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
And now that could that be a tie?
Absolutely.
Could it be sinus stuff that'shappening and they're literally
physically unable to breathethrough their nose, so they've
got to breathe through theirmouth when they're chewing or
swallowing or sleeping or any atany time.
So that's you know, that's why Iwork so closely with other types
of providers, and that's alsowhat I love working with middle,
you know, age children, even inadults, is like I'm open mouth
(21:28):
breathing at night, but I canbreathe through my nose during
the day, what's going on, or Ican't breathe in my nose at all.
I'm like, okay, let's we'regoing to ENT.
You need to get scoped andfigure this out.
Or we are capable of nasalbreathing, and we've just
created this habit where it'sreally hard to breathe through
your nose because it's kind oflike this use it or lose it type
of situation.
(21:50):
What happens with kids asthey're growing, if they're not
breathing through their nose, itaffects their health, it
enlarges their tonsils, it makesbreathing harder in general, and
then it also is affecting theirface and their shape and how
they're breathing in theirteeth.
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
Interesting.
Well, great.
Well, dude, who who was?
I had a physical therapist onhere at one point.
She specializes now in likepelvic floor therapy, but we
were kind of talking about howlike your shoulders are actually
like connected to your breath.
And like, you know, like there,it's interesting how like one
small thing at the beginning ofyour spine, you know, like one
(22:24):
misalignment up here affects thewhole thing.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
Well, exactly.
And like when it comes to pelvicfloor, all diaphragms are
connected.
So if we have in the diaphragm,which is the floor of the mouth,
oh, it's really common to havetension in the pelvic diaphragm
as well.
SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
I wonder how common anxiety is in these people too,
because that's like thebeginning of your vagus nerve.
So if it's stimulated, thenyou're anxious all the time.
You know what I mean?
I'm like, my husband and his sonare anxious creatures.
Like exactly.
Go after this episode.
I'm like, everyone's gettingchecked out.
unknown (22:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
When our tongue is not properly stimulating the
roof of our mouth to like withfull range of motion, that
affects our accessory muscles,would also, which also.
Causes tension in the neck,which also affects our vagus
nerve, which then affects ournervous system.
SPEAKER_01 (23:15):
So are we breathing and everything falls in line
with that?
Exactly.
Interesting.
How cool.
I mean, just you know, like thiswhole circle thing.
It's all the like holistic stuffis really true when you get down
to it.
And then, like, when you livewith these chronic things, then
you start adding more problems.
If you can get to the root, youcan do a lot of work.
I love this.
(23:36):
So the you have more than oneclinic, right?
There's you have a couplelocations.
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
I actually have three locations.
So our primary location is inSouth County.
Hi, baby.
This is my youngest.
He's about to rip all the cordsup so you can come thinking.
He comes to work with me everyday.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
Oh, hi, baby.
I love it.
Modern woman taking the babieswith her.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Hi, baby.
Do you want to take him?
SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
You stink.
You're very cute.
Very cute.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Thank you.
He's in most of our podcasts,too.
SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
I love it.
That's where they should be.
I know my dog usually lays nextto me, but I didn't give her
enough time to calm down, so Ikicked her out.
SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
Yeah.
So our primary location is inSouth County.
So we've got a pretty bigfeeding clinic right there,
right off of 270 and Graboy.
And then we opened up anotherlocation down in St.
Robert, Missouri, right outsideof Fort Leonardwood.
And then we also have a spaceinside the new mom school in St.
(24:35):
Louis in the city.
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
How cool.
How cool.
So if so if someone's listeningto this, okay, well, me and my
questions here.
So is this kind of thingavailable other places?
So people that might not be inthe St.
Louis area.
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
Absolutely.
Yes.
Yes, there are.
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
So this you should just have what would they look
up if they're one of looking atlooking?
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Well, you might be more likely to find individual
providers, maybe a lacklactation consultant who is also
a cranial sacral therapist.
You might find a speechpathologist that's also a
myofunctional therapist.
You might find OTs, speech, andPT that are doing body work or
(25:13):
they're doing oral function.
You know what I mean?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:15):
So looking for people that have like a mix of
skills in this area so they canreally have an understanding.
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
Exactly.
And there are different likewebsites that you could go to,
like Upledger is who I'm trainedwith for cranial sacral therapy.
So you can find a wealth of ofproviders like across the world
who are provided by startingthere.
That's smart.
Are they trained in pediatricsor not?
Because you don't want to gowith somebody who's a visceral
(25:43):
therapist, you know, working onthe organs for your baby.
Right?
No.
SPEAKER_01 (25:47):
So that's cool.
I love that.
Okay, that's great advice.
So if um someone's listening,they're in the St.
Louis area and they're like,we're gonna come check you out
because someone's struggling,what can they expect at uh at
the clinic?
Like the whole like theexperience, like what it like,
you know, yeah, what's gonnahappen?
Like they should just like callyou up, make an appointment,
come like you know, is ithands-on?
(26:09):
Are we doing an assessment?
What kind of like what are theoptions of who they might see?
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
For sure.
And we're you know, we just livein the world of a lot of
texting, so texting works forus.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Love it, that's very functional for most people.
Nobody wants to talk on thephone.
I don't.
Ew, I don't like it.
I don't either, I dread it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
Isn't that funny?
Yeah, um, yeah, so and alsopeople can go through our
website as well.
You can do like an inquiry, andeven if you do like an inquiry
for one of our locations as wellthrough the website.
But yeah, if and I know in thebottom of the notes that we'll
have all of our links.
Yeah, I'm gonna put all of themon there.
You get a hold of our office,and honestly, she's gonna talk
(26:51):
to you and find out what youneed.
That's the really great thing islike Jill is gonna be like, Hey,
what's going on?
Tell me what's going on.
Sometimes people are like, Hey,this is what's going on.
I know this is what I need.
And if you don't know what youneed, all you have to do is tell
her what's going on.
She's gonna know exactly who youneed to see and what you need.
Okay, and even personality-wise,like we just have different
(27:12):
providers that we all have adifferent vibe, and it's super
common for our patients to seemultiple providers, just because
we all do have very differentskill sets and strengths, and
sometimes you might be withRachel, who is just so
incredible with our brand newbabies, and then you're going to
(27:32):
move on to Teresa, who's ourIBCLC dietitian, because we've
got some gut stuff going on.
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
I love it.
You've guys got a bunch ofdifferent people there, so
that's great.
So you don't have you're notlike just chopping around trying
to find that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
Under one roof, exactly.
And that's the goal.
And you know, we've got aphysical therapist who is an
incredible body worker.
We've got a massage therapist.
She doesn't do traditionalmassage, she just does cranial
fascial therapy and she just andcranial sacral therapy.
We've got OTs, PT speech,dietitian, massage therapist.
SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Oh my gosh, how cool! This is so cool.
I hope this catches on moreplaces because what a great
service.
SPEAKER_00 (28:09):
Well, and that kind of speaks to I've never been a
person to stay in a box or be inthe norm, you know, and that's
kind of what brought me from themiddle of Missouri to St.
Louis because when you're in amore I don't want to say
narrow-minded, but just limitedresourced area, it's so much the
(28:34):
Midwest is just slow to acquirethings.
Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
And I'm from someone who's lived on both coasts and
is from and returned to theMidwest, I totally understand
what you're saying.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Like, I love the Midwest, but we catch on way
late to the game in a lot ofthings.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
So related specifically.
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
So when I started working with a chiropractor,
this was with my third baby.
And so I was in Roland,Missouri, which is my connection
down to St.
Robert, which is why we're downthere.
So that was when I was already aspeech pathologist and lactation
because I was a CLC, I wasn'tboard certified.
(29:15):
And I started working with thismom and baby car who was
amazing, and she was ahomeschooler, she had a thriving
practice in her basement, and itwas just like, oh, I love this.
Well, she moved, she had theaudacity to move, but we were
working together, and we hadfigured out that we could
literally treat babies at theexact same time, and it would
(29:36):
help both of us.
And what we did was soincredible, and she would do
cranial work as I was a sexassessed suck, and I'd be like,
there it is, that's it.
Like, you know what I mean?
So, like, I don't know if you'refamiliar with cranial work, but
it's really light movements, andbabies are so easily
(29:58):
manipulated, and you know, Imean, they're mushed through the
birth canal, and sometimes birthcauses trauma, yeah, and
alignment that affects feeding,like like you said, with the
vagus nerve, like all of that'sinterconnected.
And so when we have tensionpatterns or trauma associated
with something as simple andcomplex as birth, that that's
(30:20):
why we can still have feedingissues with babies, even though
under you know, they have thethis perfect goal birth, we
still run into these issues.
And so I was working with thischiropractor, and we're like,
we're grooving and we're foundthat like when we work with each
other, these babies are justflying and they're off.
You know what I mean?
They could work quickly and thenthey were where they needed to
(30:41):
be, and they could be nursingwith mom.
So then she moved.
I'm like, what do I do withoutyou?
And she goes, Go get CSTtrained.
I was like, What's CST?
Like, I don't know what this is.
And so I looked it up, found it.
I think she probably sent me thelink and signed up for it
immediately.
And I went and I was like, Oh mygosh, this is incredible! This
is really weird.
(31:02):
Like, my speech medical self islike struggling with some of
this stuff, but like, I thinkI'm home.
I think this is it.
And the more training I got, andthe more training I got, I was
just like, this is life.
Like, we don't have to workharder.
We smarter exactly.
We can facilitate healingbecause the body wants to heal.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
I know we just have to learn howto listen, really.
But it's the magic of figuringout how to listen.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
I love that.
And that's the biggest thingabout cranial sacral therapy.
And I even incorporate it intoall my assessments, or almost
depending on what's going on, ismy hands can listen.
They can tell me things that myeyes can't tell me.
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
Yeah, that's so cool.
Okay, so for parents that mightbe listening, thinking, like,
I'm having my my child's havingfeeding, breathing, sleeping
issues, some of the things.
What are some red flags thatlike maybe they should not
ignore?
And maybe some like green flagsof like that's pretty normal.
Don't freak out.
SPEAKER_00 (31:59):
Green flag would be like normal picky eating.
That's like, I don't like thattoday.
And then next week they like it.
Like that's normal.
That's normal, right?
Noisy breathing at any time,genuinely, and snoring,
especially, is gonna be a redflag, massive red flag.
Okay, yeah.
Restless sleep, you know.
(32:21):
You think about your your kiddo,regardless of the age, that's
either like hanging their headoff the bed and sleeping in
crazy positions, or you put themto bed in one position and
they're like spinning around andthe blankets are gone.
You know that kid.
SPEAKER_01 (32:34):
Yeah, the one where they end up with their head at
the foot of the bed.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:38):
You can't find them at you know, in the morning, or
like really frequent waking.
Of course, I mentioned snoring,like those components.
That's gonna be a red flag forairway.
It's not always airway.
There are other components tothat, but that's usually one of
the biggest things is airways.
They're having a hard timebreathing and they're hard
(32:58):
having a hard time getting, likewe said before, like in rest and
digest because there'sdysfunction.
SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
How interesting.
Okay, I love that.
What great advice.
Okay, what else do you what dopeople need to know from you
from listening to this?
SPEAKER_00 (33:14):
I think one of the biggest messages that I can take
to anybody with so muchexperience of working with these
families that trust your gut.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
I love that because I feel like that's what a lot of
us are trying to teach people todo is like learn to listen to
their gut because there's somuch information there when you
can learn to listen.
What a great advice.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
And when you get told that that's like normal, or
you're told, like, don't worryabout that, but it's just not
sitting right.
Just find your people.
Oh my gosh, find your people.
SPEAKER_01 (33:48):
Oh, yeah, we've given that advice a lot too.
If you're if they're not takingyou seriously and they are
professional and they're notlike giving you that respect,
they're not your people.
SPEAKER_00 (33:59):
And like that is our team is going to listen to you.
And most importantly, not onlyare we gonna listen to you,
we're going to take your goalsseriously.
And it's it doesn't, I don'tcare what your goal is, that's
what we're gonna do, and we'regonna adjust if we have to,
because mental health is such acomponent.
Like if it doesn't feel right tobe exclusively breastfeeding
(34:22):
because this is something youcan't handle, and you need to
lighten the load, we lighten theload.
It's not an all or nothingthing, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (34:31):
It's just like you know, what works for you?
That's that whole holisticapproach.
What works for you, what worksfor your life, what works for
your family.
SPEAKER_00 (34:40):
Well, and like you said there, what works for your
family like that goes intofeeding therapy or even
myofunctional therapy.
Like would we love for everybodyto sit down and prepare a meal
all together every single nightand sit around the table and
have a family-style meal so youall get that social exposure to
food and all these wonderfulthings?
(35:01):
Yeah, that's sounds nice, yeah.
Dick, right?
Yeah, a family that like you'rejust always on the go.
Well, we're gonna have to figureout this feeding therapy goal
that's gonna fit for yourfamily.
SPEAKER_01 (35:15):
Yeah, this is a fast-paced world.
People rarely make time to sitdown and do that anymore.
It's a very good, like, goodpoint.
SPEAKER_00 (35:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's just like what we makeit work, it's just life.
You know, I'm a mom of so manykids, and it's just like and
animals and it sounds like Ilove it, it sounds so amazing.
You gotta be realistic, yougenuinely just have to be
realistic about your not justyour goals, but like how you're
going to do these things.
(35:43):
Like, I'm not as a myofunctionaltherapist, I'm not gonna give
you 10 exercises to do everysingle week and come back next
week so I can give you 10 more.
I despise that approach to bevery honest.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
Well, because it's setting you up for failure, and
that's like you gotta setyourself up for success, baby
steps here, people.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (35:58):
Less is more.
SPEAKER_01 (36:00):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Well, so I've loved this,absolutely loved this.
I wish we had more time to talkabout your personal life because
that also sounds interesting.
But so I ask everyone that comeson this, but what is your like
go-to when things in your lifeget overwhelming, get stressed?
What do you do for yourself tobring things back?
SPEAKER_00 (36:21):
So my faith is what's gonna bring me keep me
connected and rooted forever.
And body work, my my bodyworkers, my energy workers, like
yes, like really, because I giveto people so much, not just to
(36:42):
my family, but you know,clinically speaking, I give to
so so many people.
So uh, and if any otherproviders are listening, like
you've got to give to yourselftoo.
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
Yeah, that's such great advice for people like
because I don't I'm a nurse, soI have a lot of nurses that
listen to this, and that's likea good way to think about that
for yourself.
It's like you're always givingso much of yourself at some
point.
You have to let allow yourselfto start receiving, which is the
last time I had Reiki with thisawesome hands-on lady.
She told me that my giving handis over giving and my receiving
(37:15):
is down and I need to receivemore.
So, but that's true.
I love that.
That's I love the way you youphrase that though.
SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
Well, and I've I've listened to some of your stuff,
and so it sounds like you kindof had an experience where you
ultimately couldn't give anymore.
Oh yes, I got burnt out so badat one point.
Yes.
So, like if we can start to havehealthier boundaries and respect
that I'm doing too much or I'mgiving too much, or you know,
(37:43):
trying to live in this lifestylethat always has everybody, like
you said, in burnout becausethat's the expectation.
That's bullshit.
SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
The hustle culture that we're inright now, like be everything to
everyone, be the perfect mom,like do everything.
Like you do a lot of things, butit doesn't sound like you put
the same pressure or the sameshame on yourself.
That is really what's killing usall.
I feel like, and that withbreastfeeding, especially,
that's like a I know we'rechanging our mind, but there's a
lot of shame involved in that.
And even I've heard peoplehorror stories about lactation
(38:13):
consultants.
SPEAKER_00 (38:14):
Oh, oh yeah, oh yeah.
It's about that, yeah.
So, yeah, absolutely.
I don't know.
I think imperfectly perfect,right?
Yeah, like we're all perfect,and we are so so imperfect.
Like, stop putting all of in inmost of it, like especially as
women, is there's just suchstrong, innate drive to do more
(38:38):
and be more, but we just wedon't need to be right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
We give a lot of that back to ourselves.
I love that.
This year I've been like reallytrying to try a lot of these
like adjunct kind of therapies,and I love that because that's
what like you're combining allthis stuff to me.
I'm like, that is like health iscome finding all the little
things that work for you, andthey're not these huge shifts,
you know, they're small littleshifts, and then you know, and
(39:03):
that changes over time, butfinding the things, the people
that work for you in your way,so like with your family, with
your kids, that's the same thingmoving forward, right?
How are we gonna work with themin a way that works for their
issues?
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
Exactly.
And honestly, and if we canraise our kids this way, we're
only setting them up for moresuccess as well, right?
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
Right, yeah, with that like outside these rigid
standards, like letting peoplebe people and learning to work
with that.
I love it.
It's so beautiful.
It's like what we all need alittle bit more of.
SPEAKER_00 (39:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
No question about that.
SPEAKER_01 (39:37):
This has been so awesome talking.
I absolutely love it.
I love what you're doing.
Anything else you want to sharebefore we get we're gonna put
all the links to all of herstuff in the show notes so you
guys can find it.
But anything you want to shareon here or for people that are
just listening that don't wantto like get on here and find the
links, an easy way to find you.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
Oh my gosh, our website is www.abe
speechandfeeding.com.
You can also find us on socialmedia.
Like, I'm super bad atremembering all these things,
but the feeding baby S T L isone of the things that, like, if
you're ever like, hey, oh,that's easy to remember.
Because yeah, feeding baby stl.
SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
Okay.
Abe is spelled A B E I L L E.
And I lectured how to say that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:22):
I say completely perfect.
Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_01 (40:25):
There you go.
Yeah, that's right.
We're human, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
Human, I'm about as human as they come, but oh gosh,
me too.
Like helps people feel morecomfortable coming and being
like, oh my gosh, you're notmessing up.
You're you're coming herebecause you know you need help,
you know.
Yeah, we're all struggling,we're all struggling.
SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
Isn't that the truth?
I love that.
I saw this like thing whereObama was talking about that
recently.
He's like, You think all theselike super high up people are so
smart, and then you get in aroom and you sit at a table with
them, you're like, These are notspecial people.
He was like, They're just likeyou and me.
So I love that because it's likeit's true, we're all flawed and
secure, right?
Do the best we can with what wehave.
(41:07):
Exactly.
I love it.
Exactly.
Well, thank you so much.
Season two.
SPEAKER_00 (41:14):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
Well, I've really appreciated you coming on.
We're gonna have to have youback on just to tell us about
your homesteading life.
So I I called it that.
I don't know if it really is,but I'm like, it sounds like it.
You do so much cool stuff.
So or anytime your clinic isdoing an event, I would love to
hear about it.
This is so awesome.
So thank you for having me.
Yes, I hope you have the likebest rest of your evening.
(41:37):
Thank you.
It's gonna be with the kiddos.
Yay, I know I'm gonna go get mywriting dog from under the door
and give her some love.
SPEAKER_00 (41:45):
All right, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
Yeah, you too.
Podcast.
This is season two, episodefive, and today's guest is
someone who lives and breatheswhole family, whole body care.
Nicole is the co-owner of AbeFeeding Clinic.
She's also an integrative oralfunctional therapist, a licensed
speech language pathologist, aninternational board-certified
(01:27):
lactation consultant, amyofunctional therapist, and a
craniosacral therapist.
She has dedicated her adult lifeto understanding how the body
and oral function are deeplyconnected, how feeding,
breathing, and oral developmentcan impact everything from sleep
to posture to overall health.
What makes her work so unique isher gentle integrative approach.
(01:50):
She weaves body work,orthodontics, functional
medicine, and medical providersto offer truly comprehensive
support.
Nicole works with patientsacross the lifespan, newborns
with complex breastfeedingchallenges, toddlers with airway
concerns, school-age kids withtooth crowding and oral
dysfunction, and adults dealingwith TMJ pain, head and neck
(02:13):
tension, and also snoring.
Her journey began with twotongue-tied infants, inspired by
her own feeding experiences withher own babies, and now she has
expanded to caring for entirefamilies because not all oral
ties are caught in infancy.
Outside the clinic, Nicole isknown for her big, beautiful
(02:34):
family, her deep roots in herlocal parish and
self-sufficiency lifestyle thatincludes homeschooling, caring
for her animals, collectinghoney and eggs, processing meat,
and cheering her seven kids onfor the side from the sidelines
of various sports.
Faith, family, and serving hercommunity are the heart of
everything she does.
Nicole, I am so excited to haveyou on the show.
(02:57):
Welcome.
Well, welcome, Nicole.
I'm so excited to have you here.
So reading all of these lists ofthings that you are with the
integrative oral functionaltherapist, licensed speech,
(03:17):
language, pathologists, allthese lactation consultant,
myofunctional therapists,craniosacral.
Well, how do all those fittogether and what does all that
mean?
SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
I think a lot of people look at that and they're
like, oh, you do all thesethings, but it's that's not
true.
The way I've added all of mydifferent skill sets, if you
will, over the years have reallyjust helped me to laser focus on
what I do.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Okay.
So basically you're focusing onthe babies and the swallowing,
or all of that just related toswallowing?
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
All of it related to yeah, oral function, and it's
such a bigger picture than that.
Okay.
And it allows me to see what'sgoing on, but not get lost with
all the other things that arefactors.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
Okay.
So you take these and you focusin on the education into your
practice of oral function.
SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Oh, like you hear the phrase, if all you have is a
hammer, everything looks like anail.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Love it.
Okay, so you got into thisbecause you had two babies.
Well, I have had five.
But two that were tongue-tied.
I thought you had seven.
So two stepkids.
Okay, okay.
So if seven total children,you've had five.
And how many of your babies weretongue-tied?
Like all of them.
All of them.
Okay, okay, okay.
So tell me like what that is,how you figured that out, and
(04:47):
how that like got you into this.
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
It was my second one was definitely the catalyst.
I was young, I mean older, butyoung in the field, new in the
field as a speech pathologistand pediatrics.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
Okay, so you already had that going for you.
SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
Okay.
But never in swallowing.
You know, it's like you don'tlearn that in school.
It's one of those things thatthey don't teach that, or they
do, they it's like a one-daylong class.
Okay.
You know.
So you really have to do a lotof continuing it in order to be
a feeding, be a feedingspecialist, regardless really of
the age, but especiallypediatrics.
(05:26):
And so I ran into so many issuesfeeding him and not even knowing
that he was tied.
I just knew that we werestruggling and I was in a lot of
pain.
And I was in rural Missouri andthere was just nobody there to
help me.
And you know, we figured it out.
Eventually, he had a lip tierelease, and there's a like a
long story to him.
What's pretty cool about ourpodcast that we do is one of our
(05:49):
episodes is dedicated solely tothat.
But what I realized, and reallyhow I always think, is like I
can do this.
This isn't my scope of practice.
I just don't have that skill setyet.
And so he was definitely thecatalyst, and he is 12 years old
now.
(06:09):
So he was the catalyst that sentme into lactation because I
really just wasn't finding muchof anything in the tongue tai
world as a speech pathologist.
Like it exists now more in ourfield, but I it was talked about
so much more in lactation.
I'm like, okay, well, lactationobviously there's a lot of
components to it that it areoutside of the infant.
(06:32):
But when it comes to a breastfedbaby, speech pathologists at the
time knew nothing about them,you know.
So we could never take thebreastfed baby and apply the
knowledge that we had forswallowing because the it's just
so dynamically different, andthere's just so many variables
that I was like, okay, well, asa speech pathologist, I'm gonna
(06:54):
learn about pediatric feeding,and then I'm gonna get lactation
trained.
And eventually that led to mebecoming an international board
certified lactation consultantlong before it was popular.
I mean, it was only five yearsago, but the speech pathologist
becoming a lactation consultantis becoming more trendy now
(07:16):
because more of us understandthat that we need to understand
both.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
I was gonna say, but it sounds like they're like what
a great like naturally, right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
They really do.
And then you know, you go to thehospital setting and those two
fields are fighting each otherwhen you could just work
together.
SPEAKER_01 (07:31):
Yeah, yeah.
My my most of my experience withspeech is I work up in a neuro
ICU nurse, so it's always likestroke swallowing after a
stroke.
So that's a lot of what we do.
I would never like in my worldconnect all these things.
So before we get past this, I dowant to ask you for people that
may not know, because I don'tthink I know exactly either.
What does tongue tied mean?
I I think there's probablydifferent ways to be tongue
(07:51):
tied, but what does it mean whena baby's tongue-tied?
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
Yeah, and there's there's more than just the
tongue.
You know, we can we can havetethers, we just call them oral
tethers, would be like ageneralized term.
So it's structural restriction.
So we have most free we havefrenoms in the body, much more
than just the mouth, but one,you know, obviously that I'm
working with is going to be thelip, the buckles, and the tongue
(08:16):
most frequently.
And so when somebody says tonguetie, you know, they might also
be referring to another tether,but it's structural restriction,
and it's something that happensin utero that is supposed to
happen and doesn't.
So it's called apoptosis.
There's like a ton ofinformation on it, you know, and
so that tissue is supposed tobasically go away, and sometimes
(08:37):
it doesn't.
SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
And my husband has like extra tissue in the roof of
his throat, and he likes there'scertain foods he won't eat
because he has like stuff willget stuck there.
He hates it.
And I'm like, he's dumb tight ofit, he doesn't even know it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
He could be well, and that's kind of like how I
got into working with adultstoo, and older kids, because not
everybody's caught as a baby,like we love working with babies
because, like, can we resolveall of these issues and get
optimal breastfeeding?
Because that is what like leadsfirst to so much success in
growth and development, likeneurologically, structurally,
(09:13):
all of these things, and so noteverybody gets caught.
So it's like super common for meto be working with a baby in a
family and like dad's in thecorner, like shrinking a little
bit, like, oh, that's oh shit,that's me, or right, or like
I'll start.
Some families not to get arelease, too, which is fine, and
we can kind of talk about whatthat means later, too.
(09:35):
And we definitely supportfamilies, right?
I've always very much supportedfamilies to be like, hey, if
you're not comfortable withthis, I totally understand.
Like, we're gonna make feedingwork the best we can, whatever
that looks like.
Now, these are the things youwant to look for as your baby
becomes an older child thatmight lead to us needing to
revisit this or at least justchecking back in with me because
(09:57):
like we don't want these thingsto get worse.
So it's it's so common then asI'm talking about those
symptoms, and I'm working with ababy and a mom, and they're
like, Oh my gosh, that soundslike my four-year-old, or that
sounds like my seven-year-old.
Like, bring them in when we'redone with baby.
Bring them in.
I the amount of fan wholefamilies I see is I don't know,
(10:21):
it's pretty significant.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
And it's interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
Not uncommon for me to be like, see a dad and a
daughter, or a mom and a son, orhow does it manifest in like
thing in um ages that aren'tbabies that they would know?
The biggest thing I I work withas a myofunctional therapist, so
that's just what that is isspecialized training in oral and
(10:45):
facial and and really even neckand respiration.
I mean, it kind of all gets tiedtogether.
But as a myofunctionaltherapist, you're working with
an older child, generallyspeaking, somebody who's gonna
be able to follow directions.
Like, we're not doingmyofunctional therapy on a baby.
We're working on oral functionfor swallowing, for speech, for
breathing.
(11:05):
But what I'm seeing usually atlike the four-year-old age is
gonna be enlarged tonsilsbecause a lot of those kiddos
are also mouth breathing.
A snoring child, you've got anoisy breather, you've got a
kiddo that has symptoms likeage, maybe is actually sleep
disordered breathing.
Mmm, yeah.
(11:25):
So that and then like seven andeleven is like the next two age
ranges I see a lot that areusually it's dental crowding.
It's like that's a huge, oh,okay, we're getting ready for
orthodontics because they have areally narrow palate and there's
not enough room for their teeth.
So now they're gonna go see theorthodontists.
But the root reason of why theyhave a crowded mouth or like
(11:50):
their teeth are crowded, isbecause oral function was
impaired for one reason oranother.
Whether it was a time or not,there's other reasons too.
SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
Interesting.
I'm learning so much.
I had no idea about any of thisstuff.
I love it, it's so interesting.
But that's I mean, it's adifferent population, it tends
to be just more pain because,like, when you have dysfunction
all of your life, it leads tochronic migraines, head and neck
pain, snoring, grinding yourteeth, all of the things that
(12:21):
just lead to interesting thatthey could all be have related
to this kind of issue.
Is there any like myths ormisunderstandings that come with
this kind of work?
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
Absolutely.
Like what?
If you release your tongue, yourthroat's gonna or your your
tongue's gonna fall back in yourthroat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (12:42):
Or it'll stretch out and it doesn't tissue, like
think kind of tendinous tissue,tissue, it's really fibrous.
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Oh, yeah, like usually gets tighter when you
hurt it, not looser.
That's the very end.
SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Exactly.
And like that's the differencebetween being able to loosen up
fascia.
So, like, that's such a hugecomponent of working with any
age, is we want to make surethat the fascia is as receptive
to change as possible.
You obviously need more, I andbody work is obviously a
component.
Like when you read the list ofall the things that I do, I'm
(13:21):
also a cranial sacral therapist.
And that you see, even morerarely, especially in the speech
pathology world, I've been doingthat for almost 12 years now.
And that was brought on, oh,excuse me, 11 years.
That was brought on by my thirdson.
And so what I love aboutcraniocral therapy is I'm able
to help bodies, regardless ofthe age, release tension that
(13:47):
might be inhibiting them, thatmight look like a tie.
Because it's not always a tie.
There can be restriction andthere can be dysfunction that's
actually so it helps to be ableto like filter out those
different components that, youknow, like I said, if we go back
to the hammer and a nail, if youthink everything is a nail, or
if you're a hammer, everythinglooks like a nail.
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
Okay, so sorry, my dog is whining at the door.
She's such a little turd.
But so what kind of when you'reworking with people, those like
hands-on, are we doing like whatkind of things are you doing
with people to help with theseissues?
What does that kind of work looklike?
And even with babies, what doesthat look like?
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Yeah, it looks different for each age
population.
I specialize in infants for along time.
And what's really fantasticabout the team that we've built
is we've also trained ourproviders to also become really
dynamic in being able to utilizebod or be therapists and
lactation consultants, you know.
(14:47):
So I don't treat babies as oftenas I used to because we have a
really, really good team.
And so whenever somebody's like,hey, I need my hands, you know,
I need your hands on this baby,or I need a second opinion, or
I'm struggling with this baby,that's when I'm gonna be seeing
those babies.
And then we don't have any othermyofunctional therapists on our
(15:07):
team right now.
Hopefully we will at some point.
And so then I'm seeing the adultpopulation, the older children.
And so myofunctional therapywith child and an older adult
will also almost look think PTfor the mouth, the face and the
mouth.
It's kind of like that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
So you're giving them kind of exercises, things
to do at home and continue.
Okay.
But like the way that I'mdifferent from any other
traditional myofunctionaltherapist is that I incorporate
bod.
And so it's really common to belike, oh, okay, do you can't do
this, so do these exercises.
But I'm gonna look at it throughanother lens of being like,
(15:47):
okay, you're really workingunder a lot of restriction
because of this much tension.
Let's resolve some of thistension, let's soften things,
and then slowly build you upwith less exercise because
you're not working around othertension patterns.
SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
Okay.
So, what is like so if you ifyou are to find out this is you
at an older age, because I'mreading like things like TMJ,
pain, snoring can all be fromoral issues.
What are people's options?
So, like this kind of work whenyou were talking about
releasing, what is that?
Kind of is that only for babies,or do adults find ties and get
(16:26):
them released?
SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
I had my tongue tie release at 36.
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
What is that like?
Do they go snip it?
That's what I'm imagining.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Like a laser, so our best providers, you know, I'm
not married to any specificlaser or tool because to be very
fair, you can have a releaseprovider that uses the scissors
and does a beautiful job, andyou can have a provider that
uses a really big expensivelaser and they do a terrible
job.
So just making sure that you'reworking with a provider that's
(16:56):
very skilled and knowledgeableis what you want.
But most often we're workingwith release providers that are
most commonly dentists, and theyhave a lot of extensive training
because most dentists reallyaren't taught anything about the
tongue.
So don't be surprised when yougo to your dentist and say, I
think I have a tongue tie, andthey're like, That's not a real
thing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:15):
Yeah, because you'd think he would have told you
before now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Exactly.
Or why are you grinding yourteeth?
Or why do you have all this?
Yeah, why do you have TMD?
So why don't you have TMJdysfunction?
You know, yeah.
Unfortunately, just like thespeech pathologist world,
there's not a ton of training inties.
And just like in the medicalfield, whether it's mental or
it's physicians, they don't havea lot of extra training in that
(17:40):
unless they really specificallyseek it out, which those of us
that are in the world of oraldysfunction have really sought
that out.
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
So if someone is listening to their this and
they're like, This is might belike I maybe this is what's
going on with me.
Like, are well, are there anyother signs?
I guess before I ask you thisquestion, are there any other
signs people should look for?
Like, I mean, I know I tried tosaid my husband has like an
extra piece of skin he's awareof.
I don't think he knows what thatmeans.
He just like lives with it.
But are there other things likethat that people just have that
(18:11):
maybe they've like gotten usedto?
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
So the yeah, the biggest thing like with babies
is just difficulty feeding.
Like, if there's ever difficultyfeeding, and it doesn't matter
if it's breast or if it'sbottle, like you want to find
somebody who is a local skilledprovider and trust your gut as a
parent, regardless.
Trust your gut because there areso many people that I work with
are like, I said this, and weended up bottle feeding because
(18:35):
we couldn't make it work, and Ithought that's what was going
on, but I just kept getting toldthat's not a real thing, or
it'll stretch, or it'll break onits own, or it'll get better
with time, and it just neverdid.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
You know, it's the same thing with picky eating
because we were I was gonna askyou if picky eating was a sign
because I like my his son is asuper picky eater, and so in my
head I'm like, have we everreally looked in his mouth?
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
Well, it's totally possible.
There's so many different layersto like why somebody might be a
selective eater, you know.
Sometimes it's how it smells,how it looks, how it tastes, but
how it feels.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Yeah, his is a lot of sensory, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
And like, so in and like my very first pediatric
feeding training was moresensory based, and I think it's
so important because if youdon't address the sensory
component, like you can't evenget to the motor component
because like they don't want tolook at it, so yeah, they're
like already done.
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
No, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
Right?
Exactly.
So that was really like a keycomponent into like learning,
like, oh, there's a lot ofreasons why somebody chooses not
to eat because it's a it's notyeah, it's a choice in the sense
that like like I don't want to,but there's there are things
happening in the body that makethem truly not be able to as
(19:58):
well, and so sometimes selectiveeating comes from the inability
to be able to control that food,which is where feeding therapy
and myofunctional therapy comeinto play.
Sometimes that dysfunction isbecause the tongue is tied and
it can't move the way it needsto to hold the food in their
(20:19):
mouth in a safe way to swallow.
So then it becomes reallyunsafe.
So it's super common for likelittle kids to like always have
their hands in their mouth whenthey're eating because they're
their fingers are using the jobof their tongue.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Or oh, so they're trying to like control the food.
Interesting.
These are all things that youwould totally know.
Like a moms are probably like Iknow that kid.
SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Or like the open mouth chewer,the the kids that like super
messy and foods everywhere, orlike you can't sit at the table.
Yes, right?
Like, oh my gosh, will you justclose your mouth?
Like that sounds yes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
I've like, I can't think of a specific kid, but I
know exactly what you're saying,where they're like breathing
open mouth breathing whilethey're trying to eat.
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
And now that could that be a tie?
Absolutely.
Could it be sinus stuff that'shappening and they're literally
physically unable to breathethrough their nose, so they've
got to breathe through theirmouth when they're chewing or
swallowing or sleeping or any atany time.
So that's you know, that's why Iwork so closely with other types
of providers, and that's alsowhat I love working with middle,
you know, age children, even inadults, is like I'm open mouth
(21:28):
breathing at night, but I canbreathe through my nose during
the day, what's going on, or Ican't breathe in my nose at all.
I'm like, okay, let's we'regoing to ENT.
You need to get scoped andfigure this out.
Or we are capable of nasalbreathing, and we've just
created this habit where it'sreally hard to breathe through
your nose because it's kind oflike this use it or lose it type
of situation.
(21:50):
What happens with kids asthey're growing, if they're not
breathing through their nose, itaffects their health, it
enlarges their tonsils, it makesbreathing harder in general, and
then it also is affecting theirface and their shape and how
they're breathing in theirteeth.
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
Interesting.
Well, great.
Well, dude, who who was?
I had a physical therapist onhere at one point.
She specializes now in likepelvic floor therapy, but we
were kind of talking about howlike your shoulders are actually
like connected to your breath.
And like, you know, like there,it's interesting how like one
small thing at the beginning ofyour spine, you know, like one
(22:24):
misalignment up here affects thewhole thing.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
Well, exactly.
And like when it comes to pelvicfloor, all diaphragms are
connected.
So if we have in the diaphragm,which is the floor of the mouth,
oh, it's really common to havetension in the pelvic diaphragm
as well.
SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
I wonder how common anxiety is in these people too,
because that's like thebeginning of your vagus nerve.
So if it's stimulated, thenyou're anxious all the time.
You know what I mean?
I'm like, my husband and his sonare anxious creatures.
Like exactly.
Go after this episode.
I'm like, everyone's gettingchecked out.
unknown (22:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
When our tongue is not properly stimulating the
roof of our mouth to like withfull range of motion, that
affects our accessory muscles,would also, which also.
Causes tension in the neck,which also affects our vagus
nerve, which then affects ournervous system.
SPEAKER_01 (23:15):
So are we breathing and everything falls in line
with that?
Exactly.
Interesting.
How cool.
I mean, just you know, like thiswhole circle thing.
It's all the like holistic stuffis really true when you get down
to it.
And then, like, when you livewith these chronic things, then
you start adding more problems.
If you can get to the root, youcan do a lot of work.
I love this.
(23:36):
So the you have more than oneclinic, right?
There's you have a couplelocations.
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
I actually have three locations.
So our primary location is inSouth County.
Hi, baby.
This is my youngest.
He's about to rip all the cordsup so you can come thinking.
He comes to work with me everyday.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
Oh, hi, baby.
I love it.
Modern woman taking the babieswith her.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Hi, baby.
Do you want to take him?
SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
You stink.
You're very cute.
Very cute.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Thank you.
He's in most of our podcasts,too.
SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
I love it.
That's where they should be.
I know my dog usually lays nextto me, but I didn't give her
enough time to calm down, so Ikicked her out.
SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
Yeah.
So our primary location is inSouth County.
So we've got a pretty bigfeeding clinic right there,
right off of 270 and Graboy.
And then we opened up anotherlocation down in St.
Robert, Missouri, right outsideof Fort Leonardwood.
And then we also have a spaceinside the new mom school in St.
(24:35):
Louis in the city.
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
How cool.
How cool.
So if so if someone's listeningto this, okay, well, me and my
questions here.
So is this kind of thingavailable other places?
So people that might not be inthe St.
Louis area.
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
Absolutely.
Yes.
Yes, there are.
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
So this you should just have what would they look
up if they're one of looking atlooking?
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Well, you might be more likely to find individual
providers, maybe a lacklactation consultant who is also
a cranial sacral therapist.
You might find a speechpathologist that's also a
myofunctional therapist.
You might find OTs, speech, andPT that are doing body work or
(25:13):
they're doing oral function.
You know what I mean?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:15):
So looking for people that have like a mix of
skills in this area so they canreally have an understanding.
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
Exactly.
And there are different likewebsites that you could go to,
like Upledger is who I'm trainedwith for cranial sacral therapy.
So you can find a wealth of ofproviders like across the world
who are provided by startingthere.
That's smart.
Are they trained in pediatricsor not?
Because you don't want to gowith somebody who's a visceral
(25:43):
therapist, you know, working onthe organs for your baby.
Right?
No.
SPEAKER_01 (25:47):
So that's cool.
I love that.
Okay, that's great advice.
So if um someone's listening,they're in the St.
Louis area and they're like,we're gonna come check you out
because someone's struggling,what can they expect at uh at
the clinic?
Like the whole like theexperience, like what it like,
you know, yeah, what's gonnahappen?
Like they should just like callyou up, make an appointment,
come like you know, is ithands-on?
(26:09):
Are we doing an assessment?
What kind of like what are theoptions of who they might see?
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
For sure.
And we're you know, we just livein the world of a lot of
texting, so texting works forus.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Love it, that's very functional for most people.
Nobody wants to talk on thephone.
I don't.
Ew, I don't like it.
I don't either, I dread it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
Isn't that funny?
Yeah, um, yeah, so and alsopeople can go through our
website as well.
You can do like an inquiry, andeven if you do like an inquiry
for one of our locations as wellthrough the website.
But yeah, if and I know in thebottom of the notes that we'll
have all of our links.
Yeah, I'm gonna put all of themon there.
You get a hold of our office,and honestly, she's gonna talk
(26:51):
to you and find out what youneed.
That's the really great thing islike Jill is gonna be like, Hey,
what's going on?
Tell me what's going on.
Sometimes people are like, Hey,this is what's going on.
I know this is what I need.
And if you don't know what youneed, all you have to do is tell
her what's going on.
She's gonna know exactly who youneed to see and what you need.
Okay, and even personality-wise,like we just have different
(27:12):
providers that we all have adifferent vibe, and it's super
common for our patients to seemultiple providers, just because
we all do have very differentskill sets and strengths, and
sometimes you might be withRachel, who is just so
incredible with our brand newbabies, and then you're going to
(27:32):
move on to Teresa, who's ourIBCLC dietitian, because we've
got some gut stuff going on.
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
I love it.
You've guys got a bunch ofdifferent people there, so
that's great.
So you don't have you're notlike just chopping around trying
to find that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
Under one roof, exactly.
And that's the goal.
And you know, we've got aphysical therapist who is an
incredible body worker.
We've got a massage therapist.
She doesn't do traditionalmassage, she just does cranial
fascial therapy and she just andcranial sacral therapy.
We've got OTs, PT speech,dietitian, massage therapist.
SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Oh my gosh, how cool! This is so cool.
I hope this catches on moreplaces because what a great
service.
SPEAKER_00 (28:09):
Well, and that kind of speaks to I've never been a
person to stay in a box or be inthe norm, you know, and that's
kind of what brought me from themiddle of Missouri to St.
Louis because when you're in amore I don't want to say
narrow-minded, but just limitedresourced area, it's so much the
(28:34):
Midwest is just slow to acquirethings.
Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
And I'm from someone who's lived on both coasts and
is from and returned to theMidwest, I totally understand
what you're saying.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Like, I love the Midwest, but we catch on way
late to the game in a lot ofthings.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
So related specifically.
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
So when I started working with a chiropractor,
this was with my third baby.
And so I was in Roland,Missouri, which is my connection
down to St.
Robert, which is why we're downthere.
So that was when I was already aspeech pathologist and lactation
because I was a CLC, I wasn'tboard certified.
(29:15):
And I started working with thismom and baby car who was
amazing, and she was ahomeschooler, she had a thriving
practice in her basement, and itwas just like, oh, I love this.
Well, she moved, she had theaudacity to move, but we were
working together, and we hadfigured out that we could
literally treat babies at theexact same time, and it would
(29:36):
help both of us.
And what we did was soincredible, and she would do
cranial work as I was a sexassessed suck, and I'd be like,
there it is, that's it.
Like, you know what I mean?
So, like, I don't know if you'refamiliar with cranial work, but
it's really light movements, andbabies are so easily
(29:58):
manipulated, and you know, Imean, they're mushed through the
birth canal, and sometimes birthcauses trauma, yeah, and
alignment that affects feeding,like like you said, with the
vagus nerve, like all of that'sinterconnected.
And so when we have tensionpatterns or trauma associated
with something as simple andcomplex as birth, that that's
(30:20):
why we can still have feedingissues with babies, even though
under you know, they have thethis perfect goal birth, we
still run into these issues.
And so I was working with thischiropractor, and we're like,
we're grooving and we're foundthat like when we work with each
other, these babies are justflying and they're off.
You know what I mean?
They could work quickly and thenthey were where they needed to
(30:41):
be, and they could be nursingwith mom.
So then she moved.
I'm like, what do I do withoutyou?
And she goes, Go get CSTtrained.
I was like, What's CST?
Like, I don't know what this is.
And so I looked it up, found it.
I think she probably sent me thelink and signed up for it
immediately.
And I went and I was like, Oh mygosh, this is incredible! This
is really weird.
(31:02):
Like, my speech medical self islike struggling with some of
this stuff, but like, I thinkI'm home.
I think this is it.
And the more training I got, andthe more training I got, I was
just like, this is life.
Like, we don't have to workharder.
We smarter exactly.
We can facilitate healingbecause the body wants to heal.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
I know we just have to learn howto listen, really.
But it's the magic of figuringout how to listen.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
I love that.
And that's the biggest thingabout cranial sacral therapy.
And I even incorporate it intoall my assessments, or almost
depending on what's going on, ismy hands can listen.
They can tell me things that myeyes can't tell me.
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
Yeah, that's so cool.
Okay, so for parents that mightbe listening, thinking, like,
I'm having my my child's havingfeeding, breathing, sleeping
issues, some of the things.
What are some red flags thatlike maybe they should not
ignore?
And maybe some like green flagsof like that's pretty normal.
Don't freak out.
SPEAKER_00 (31:59):
Green flag would be like normal picky eating.
That's like, I don't like thattoday.
And then next week they like it.
Like that's normal.
That's normal, right?
Noisy breathing at any time,genuinely, and snoring,
especially, is gonna be a redflag, massive red flag.
Okay, yeah.
Restless sleep, you know.
(32:21):
You think about your your kiddo,regardless of the age, that's
either like hanging their headoff the bed and sleeping in
crazy positions, or you put themto bed in one position and
they're like spinning around andthe blankets are gone.
You know that kid.
SPEAKER_01 (32:34):
Yeah, the one where they end up with their head at
the foot of the bed.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:38):
You can't find them at you know, in the morning, or
like really frequent waking.
Of course, I mentioned snoring,like those components.
That's gonna be a red flag forairway.
It's not always airway.
There are other components tothat, but that's usually one of
the biggest things is airways.
They're having a hard timebreathing and they're hard
(32:58):
having a hard time getting, likewe said before, like in rest and
digest because there'sdysfunction.
SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
How interesting.
Okay, I love that.
What great advice.
Okay, what else do you what dopeople need to know from you
from listening to this?
SPEAKER_00 (33:14):
I think one of the biggest messages that I can take
to anybody with so muchexperience of working with these
families that trust your gut.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
I love that because I feel like that's what a lot of
us are trying to teach people todo is like learn to listen to
their gut because there's somuch information there when you
can learn to listen.
What a great advice.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
And when you get told that that's like normal, or
you're told, like, don't worryabout that, but it's just not
sitting right.
Just find your people.
Oh my gosh, find your people.
SPEAKER_01 (33:48):
Oh, yeah, we've given that advice a lot too.
If you're if they're not takingyou seriously and they are
professional and they're notlike giving you that respect,
they're not your people.
SPEAKER_00 (33:59):
And like that is our team is going to listen to you.
And most importantly, not onlyare we gonna listen to you,
we're going to take your goalsseriously.
And it's it doesn't, I don'tcare what your goal is, that's
what we're gonna do, and we'regonna adjust if we have to,
because mental health is such acomponent.
Like if it doesn't feel right tobe exclusively breastfeeding
(34:22):
because this is something youcan't handle, and you need to
lighten the load, we lighten theload.
It's not an all or nothingthing, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (34:31):
It's just like you know, what works for you?
That's that whole holisticapproach.
What works for you, what worksfor your life, what works for
your family.
SPEAKER_00 (34:40):
Well, and like you said there, what works for your
family like that goes intofeeding therapy or even
myofunctional therapy.
Like would we love for everybodyto sit down and prepare a meal
all together every single nightand sit around the table and
have a family-style meal so youall get that social exposure to
food and all these wonderfulthings?
(35:01):
Yeah, that's sounds nice, yeah.
Dick, right?
Yeah, a family that like you'rejust always on the go.
Well, we're gonna have to figureout this feeding therapy goal
that's gonna fit for yourfamily.
SPEAKER_01 (35:15):
Yeah, this is a fast-paced world.
People rarely make time to sitdown and do that anymore.
It's a very good, like, goodpoint.
SPEAKER_00 (35:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's just like what we makeit work, it's just life.
You know, I'm a mom of so manykids, and it's just like and
animals and it sounds like Ilove it, it sounds so amazing.
You gotta be realistic, yougenuinely just have to be
realistic about your not justyour goals, but like how you're
going to do these things.
(35:43):
Like, I'm not as a myofunctionaltherapist, I'm not gonna give
you 10 exercises to do everysingle week and come back next
week so I can give you 10 more.
I despise that approach to bevery honest.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
Well, because it's setting you up for failure, and
that's like you gotta setyourself up for success, baby
steps here, people.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (35:58):
Less is more.
SPEAKER_01 (36:00):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Well, so I've loved this,absolutely loved this.
I wish we had more time to talkabout your personal life because
that also sounds interesting.
But so I ask everyone that comeson this, but what is your like
go-to when things in your lifeget overwhelming, get stressed?
What do you do for yourself tobring things back?
SPEAKER_00 (36:21):
So my faith is what's gonna bring me keep me
connected and rooted forever.
And body work, my my bodyworkers, my energy workers, like
yes, like really, because I giveto people so much, not just to
(36:42):
my family, but you know,clinically speaking, I give to
so so many people.
So uh, and if any otherproviders are listening, like
you've got to give to yourselftoo.
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
Yeah, that's such great advice for people like
because I don't I'm a nurse, soI have a lot of nurses that
listen to this, and that's likea good way to think about that
for yourself.
It's like you're always givingso much of yourself at some
point.
You have to let allow yourselfto start receiving, which is the
last time I had Reiki with thisawesome hands-on lady.
She told me that my giving handis over giving and my receiving
(37:15):
is down and I need to receivemore.
So, but that's true.
I love that.
That's I love the way you youphrase that though.
SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
Well, and I've I've listened to some of your stuff,
and so it sounds like you kindof had an experience where you
ultimately couldn't give anymore.
Oh yes, I got burnt out so badat one point.
Yes.
So, like if we can start to havehealthier boundaries and respect
that I'm doing too much or I'mgiving too much, or you know,
(37:43):
trying to live in this lifestylethat always has everybody, like
you said, in burnout becausethat's the expectation.
That's bullshit.
SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
The hustle culture that we're inright now, like be everything to
everyone, be the perfect mom,like do everything.
Like you do a lot of things, butit doesn't sound like you put
the same pressure or the sameshame on yourself.
That is really what's killing usall.
I feel like, and that withbreastfeeding, especially,
that's like a I know we'rechanging our mind, but there's a
lot of shame involved in that.
And even I've heard peoplehorror stories about lactation
(38:13):
consultants.
SPEAKER_00 (38:14):
Oh, oh yeah, oh yeah.
It's about that, yeah.
So, yeah, absolutely.
I don't know.
I think imperfectly perfect,right?
Yeah, like we're all perfect,and we are so so imperfect.
Like, stop putting all of in inmost of it, like especially as
women, is there's just suchstrong, innate drive to do more
(38:38):
and be more, but we just wedon't need to be right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:43):
We give a lot of that back to ourselves.
I love that.
This year I've been like reallytrying to try a lot of these
like adjunct kind of therapies,and I love that because that's
what like you're combining allthis stuff to me.
I'm like, that is like health iscome finding all the little
things that work for you, andthey're not these huge shifts,
you know, they're small littleshifts, and then you know, and
(39:03):
that changes over time, butfinding the things, the people
that work for you in your way,so like with your family, with
your kids, that's the same thingmoving forward, right?
How are we gonna work with themin a way that works for their
issues?
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
Exactly.
And honestly, and if we canraise our kids this way, we're
only setting them up for moresuccess as well, right?
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
Right, yeah, with that like outside these rigid
standards, like letting peoplebe people and learning to work
with that.
I love it.
It's so beautiful.
It's like what we all need alittle bit more of.
SPEAKER_00 (39:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
No question about that.
SPEAKER_01 (39:37):
This has been so awesome talking.
I absolutely love it.
I love what you're doing.
Anything else you want to sharebefore we get we're gonna put
all the links to all of herstuff in the show notes so you
guys can find it.
But anything you want to shareon here or for people that are
just listening that don't wantto like get on here and find the
links, an easy way to find you.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
Oh my gosh, our website is www.abe
speechandfeeding.com.
You can also find us on socialmedia.
Like, I'm super bad atremembering all these things,
but the feeding baby S T L isone of the things that, like, if
you're ever like, hey, oh,that's easy to remember.
Because yeah, feeding baby stl.
SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
Okay.
Abe is spelled A B E I L L E.
And I lectured how to say that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:22):
I say completely perfect.
Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_01 (40:25):
There you go.
Yeah, that's right.
We're human, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
Human, I'm about as human as they come, but oh gosh,
me too.
Like helps people feel morecomfortable coming and being
like, oh my gosh, you're notmessing up.
You're you're coming herebecause you know you need help,
you know.
Yeah, we're all struggling,we're all struggling.
SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
Isn't that the truth?
I love that.
I saw this like thing whereObama was talking about that
recently.
He's like, You think all theselike super high up people are so
smart, and then you get in aroom and you sit at a table with
them, you're like, These are notspecial people.
He was like, They're just likeyou and me.
So I love that because it's likeit's true, we're all flawed and
secure, right?
Do the best we can with what wehave.
(41:07):
Exactly.
I love it.
Exactly.
Well, thank you so much.
Season two.
SPEAKER_00 (41:14):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
Well, I've really appreciated you coming on.
We're gonna have to have youback on just to tell us about
your homesteading life.
So I I called it that.
I don't know if it really is,but I'm like, it sounds like it.
You do so much cool stuff.
So or anytime your clinic isdoing an event, I would love to
hear about it.
This is so awesome.
So thank you for having me.
Yes, I hope you have the likebest rest of your evening.
(41:37):
Thank you.
It's gonna be with the kiddos.
Yay, I know I'm gonna go get mywriting dog from under the door
and give her some love.
SPEAKER_00 (41:45):
All right, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
Yeah, you too.
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