April 23, 2025 • 27 mins
Another possible title for this episode was "Bananas & Boundaries", but the mountain metaphor won out for this show that delves into the art of maintaining emotional equilibrium when the world around you feels overwhelming. Using the vivid metaphor of glacier hiking, Justin illustrates how to support others without losing your footing and emphasizes the importance of discerning when to assist and when to step back.
Key Highlights:
- Embracing Equanimity: Discover techniques to remain composed amidst external turmoil.
- The Glacier Hiking Metaphor: Understand how emotional support parallels the dynamics of navigating treacherous terrains.
- Setting Boundaries: Learn the significance of recognizing when to help and when to preserve your energy.
- Building Your Support Team: Identify the importance of surrounding yourself with individuals who uplift and stabilize you.
- Mindfulness Practices: Explore methods to anchor yourself in the present moment, fostering clarity and resilience.
Takeaway: Equip yourself with strategies to traverse the emotional landscapes of life, ensuring both personal growth and the ability to support others effectively.
Overcome the daily grind with transformative techniques from Justin's book, 'Engineered to Love.'
These practices aren't just about finding peace—they're about reconnecting with yourself and the world around you in meaningful ways.
Access your free materials today at engineeredtolove.com/sample and start living a life filled with joy, ease, and love.
Watch the full video episode at Justin Wenck, Ph.D. YouTube Channel!
Check out my best-selling book "Engineered to Love: Going Beyond Success to Fulfillment" also available on Audiobook on all streaming platforms! Go to https://www.engineeredtolove.com/ to learn more!
Got a question or comment about the show? E-mail me at podcast@justinwenck.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We're all not necessarily goingto the same place on the same
(00:03):
schedule in the same way, and wegot to respect the different
journeys that we're all having.
It's not your turn to fall inthe crevasse. It's your turn to
basically stand strong, stableice, and somebody might be
tugging on you. And you got todiscern, hey, is there something
I can do something about or do Ineed to, like, cut them loose?
Or do I need to, you know, justput a pin in it, you know, and
(00:24):
let them, let them hang out fora while. Here's how you handle
that. Are you ready to live alife with enough time, money and
energy have relationships andconnections that delight you?
Are you ready for theextraordinary life you know
you've been missing. If so, thenthis is the place for you. I'm a
(00:44):
best selling author, coach,consultant and speaker who's
worked in technology for overtwo decades. I'm a leader at
transforming people andorganizations from operating in
fear, obligation and guilt torunning off joy, ease and love.
It's time for engineeringemotions and energy with me.
Justin Wenck PhD, welcome today,I'm going to be talking about
(01:13):
how can you handle the crazinessthat's going on in the world,
and maybe with some of thepeople around you, either new
people, strangers or peopleyou've known for most of your
life, I've been experiencingthis. A lot of people I keep
running into are experiencingthis, and I hear this
everywhere. I'm just like, oh,it's seems like the world is
(01:34):
bananas, as the profoundphilosopher Gwen Stefani said
bananas, B, a n, a n, a s,bananas. So how to make a banana
split or a banana smoothie whenyou're presented with so much
bananas? That's what we're goingto be talking about today, and
this could be possibly one ofthe most impactful shows you
(01:58):
watch or listen to. So if youare watching this on YouTube,
thank you. And if you're notsubscribed, please do and thank
you if you already are so happyto have you here. And it's also
possible that this might be theepisode where you're just like,
I'm out. This show Justin putson is not for me, and that's the
(02:20):
case. This show is not foranybody. But if you do listen
and get this message, and you'relike, oh my gosh, I get it, now,
you're going to be in and you'regoing to be having a much more
enjoyable life with much biggerimpact, impact. Probably, I know
a lot of my listeners that arealready doing big, big things,
(02:41):
yet this can shift so much inyour life, those around you, and
possibly even those you maynever even meet or experience.
That's how profound what I'mabout to share with you is. So
it's, how do you find that stateof equanimity? I believe that's
how you say the word, butbasically that like that
composure, that balance, thatneutrality in the face of
(03:04):
craziness, of all sorts oftriggers or turmoil or traumas,
how, how, how, how. That's whatI'm going to be talking about
today. And I've gotten so manyopportunities to to practice
this. So that's why I'm like,Okay, I got to share this with
with you guys, my listeners,because I love you. I love you
(03:26):
guys. I want your I want thingsto be easier and I want to be
more enjoyable. But I trulybelieve that we're not meant to
be, you know, working hard andhaving to grind all the time
doesn't mean there isn't goingto be work. Doesn't mean that
life's not going to happen. Justwe don't need more than we've
we're already going to need toexperience all right, it's a big
thing. Of what my book engineerto love is about, and what this
(03:49):
podcast is about is, how canthere be more joy he's in love
in our life. So I recently wasat a lunch gathering. And I was
like, Oh, this is going to begreat. Because this was a, I was
told, this is a highly curatedevent in Silicon Valley, with
people that go, go to all sortsof tech events, or in the tech
(04:13):
industry things like that.
That's what I that's what I wastold. But this group would be,
you know, of more conscious,more aware. Those that you know
have their kind of, have theirshit together. They're not just
there going, like, I don't lookdoing B to B sass. Can I sell to
you? Can Do you have, do youhave a job for me? Do you have
(04:34):
this so that, like, we can makemore money and go public and IPO
and, you know, doing got 100xthis and that, that, and all
those, AI, I love those people.
I don't, I don't enjoy beingaround them. So I was like, Ah,
this is gonna be great, like agroup that I can just kind of be
myself with, relax, kick backand enjoy. Turns out, there was,
(04:54):
there was one attendee who waskind of like a late ad. Yeah, by
the by who was hosting, and sowas not actually part of the the
curated group of, sort of like,you know, the the host who was
putting together the group, butwasn't actually the host of of
the gathering, if that makessense. And so there's one
(05:15):
individual where it was like,Oh, shit. This is not going to
be relaxing. I am, I am now. I'mnow working basically, but I'm
like, I don't want to work thathard. So basically, this, this
individual she had, she shouldhave issues with her mother. And
have you ever realized thatsometimes you, you know, start
talking with somebody and theysay they have a problem. They
(05:39):
say they don't want it anymore.
But if you're really payingattention, they have their
problem because it's theirs, andthey own it, and they're not
ready to let go of it. It's,it's, it's part of, like the
family treasures or somethinglike that. It's, it's like some,
you know, old, shitty relicthat's been passed down
generation to generation. Andit's maybe it stinks, maybe it's
(06:03):
ugly, maybe it takes up a bunchof space. And just like, why
don't you get rid of that thing?
And it's like, well, but it'sbeen, it's been here for so
long. This is mine. This ismine. It's part of who I am.
People usually can't say it likethat, but that's just kind of
like, okay, I guess, I guess youlike it. And that's how this
woman was with with herproblems, because this group of
people is brilliant. People doit a lot, have a lot of
(06:25):
experience. Maybe them coaches,you know, do therapeutic works,
in addition to all things theymaybe do technically and in the
business world and philanthropy.
And at one point, I just had tobe like, Hey, I understand this
is like a challenge. Just Ididn't come here to coach
somebody, and I don't know ifanybody else here did. And I'm
(06:48):
also curious, I know thatprobably many of the people here
would be able to solve yourproblem in an instant, if you
wanted to. Yet, if they didoffer that, would you actually
be open to that? Would youactually be ready to lay your
problem down? And it was, it wasamazing. You know, the the woman
with the problem didn't, didn'thear that at all, and just was
(07:12):
just kind of didn't, didn't hearme, which I wasn't surprised.
This is why I don't coach peopleunless they want to be coached.
You know, I didn't always usedto be that way, but now I'm very
much like, Hey, do you do youwant this? Do you does this
because I don't want to, I don'tlike to waste effort. Part of
having an easeful life isrecognizing when your efforts,
(07:32):
when your energy, are going tobe fruitful, and also
recognizing when they're not. Sothat's, that's one of the first
things, is to check in on andthen. And I was like, Okay,
that's cool. But I was like,hey, if the group wants to keep
going this way, that's fine, butI just want to check with the
group if this is what everybodywants to do. And the group was
(07:53):
just kind of like, did what mostpeople do. And I think this is
sort of a little bit of showinghow maybe we have, at least here
in the United States. And I'msure those of you listening in
other parts of the world haveseen how the United States is
going. Is it maybe theleadership just kind of, you
know, just Does, does what theywant without really checking in.
(08:13):
Hey, is this what everybodywants? And most people just kind
of go like, you know, I don't, Idon't want to be rude. I don't
want to be rude or mean, so Iguess I'll just sit here
and take it, and then I'm gonnago bitch and whine and complain
fucking afterwards, which iswhat a lot of people do have
been doing. It's like the daythe day to use your voice was
(08:35):
Election Day, or there's lots ofways to use your voice
productively, and I've noticed alot of people just like to, you
know, they don't do things whenit can be productive. They want
to. They want to have theirproblem, much like this woman,
have the problem. This group ofpeople, in some ways, wanted to
have a problem person that theycould just, you know, throw
stuff at and be like, I'm beingnice. I'm helping. Look at me,
(08:56):
I'm doing it's like, no. I mean,you're being nice, but you're
not being helpful. Being kind isto go, Hey, let's see what's
going on here. Is this what wewant to do? Is this helpful? But
then the group was like, Hey,this is what we want to do
effectively. And it continued.
And so this is where it getsonto what the next thing is.
This is what you can always do.
(09:17):
So there's so first thing is, isto check in and ask hey, is this
to speak up when you do seesomething or feel something?
Because if you're uncomfortable,probably other people are too.
So if you have the voice and theability and the capability to do
so, then do so, and it doesn'tmatter you know what you look
(09:37):
like, where you come from, ifyou feel like I got there's
something that could be said,and I think I can do it then, do
it now again. Be discerning. Bewise. Maybe there's nothing to
say, maybe there's nothing todo, and maybe even if you say
something, maybe it won't dosomething in that instance, but
it is having an impact, becauseI heard from several people
afterwards that they were soglad I spoke up and at least
(09:59):
kind of said, what a. Lot ofpeople were feeling and
thinking. So here's the nextpart of you're in a banana
situation. Somebody's off therails, just like, complaining,
complaining, complaining, andthey just continue to want to
have their problem is that youjust sit there and work on being
at peace. So that's what I did,is it's like, this woman would
(10:19):
say things and I'd just be like,That's bullshit. That's awful.
That makes the sense. But then,because I was working on
breathing and being there andbeing in equanimity,
occasionally she would saythings that I'm like, Well, that
makes sense. That's brilliant. Idon't have to just judge this
person just, you know,blanketly, I'm actually able to
be able to be in the moment andbe able to respond accordingly.
(10:44):
Instead of just, I'm justreacting based off of maybe
something that was said that Ididn't like, and then now I'm
going to react negatively toeverything again. Do you think
some of the things happening inthis world that you turn on the
news when you know you hearabout this and that and whatever
that maybe if you were in astate of equanimity, if you were
calm, if you were neutral, youcould respond to what's actually
(11:07):
happening, what's actually beingdone, what's actually being
said, as opposed to just losingyour shit. So one metaphor that
I want to bring up that I thinkthis is going to be a real big
game changer. So I want you topay very close attention,
because this is effectively whatI was, I was doing during this
little lunch gathering, is whena group of people wants to go
(11:31):
hike on a glacier. So I've neveractually done this. So if you're
someone that goes glacier hikingand actually knows this, and I'm
really fucking up this, you knowhow it works and things like
that. By all means, let me knowin the comments, message me so
that I can, you know, maybelearn something. But I think
you're going to forgive some ofthis, because it's, it's more
(11:53):
about the metaphor to paint thepicture of what we're doing in
situations like this. And again,this lunch situation was with a
group of, a group of people thatyou know, very educated, very
resourced, yet even the mostresourced, capable, aware, we
all have our moments. And thisis, this is where this metaphor
becomes very key. So when peoplego hiking on a glacier, they
(12:17):
there's a big possibility ofwalking along, walking along,
and what looks like solid ice,solid ground is not It could
just be pure snow, or it couldbe thin ice that then would
break as soon as somebody stepson it, and then you fall into a
crevasse and die. And I lovesaying crevasse, because it's
(12:38):
got a little us, and it's got alittle craw crevasse. And so
people that go hiking thesituations, they know this is an
inherent danger. And so theywill, they will link up. They
will tie to one another, so thatif the first person falls down,
the people remaining behind arethere to hold anchor and pull
(12:59):
that person back out and atthis, at this gathering,
effectively, it's like we are agroup of people. And you know
this one woman is effectively,you know, having a challenge. We
all have challenges, right?
That's that that's equivalent toa fallen fallen down the ice,
possibly going to crevasse. Andwe're there with our string,
with our with our chord,whatever it is. And it's like,
(13:23):
we got you. We got you. Now inactual, you know, Glacier
hiking, the person who fallswants to get the up out and is
going to be willing to help to,you know, come up. So it's like
the people that didn't fall pulland the other person is gonna,
you know, do what they can tohelp get the fuck out and human
experience, human interaction.
(13:47):
The person who has fallen intothe crevasse does not actually
always want to get outimmediately. The big important
thing is you got to recognizethis and respect them for this
desire, and let them have theexperience. Because there could
be some cool stuff in thiscrevasse. There could be, you
know, something to learn,something to gain. Maybe
(14:08):
there's, there's some diamondsor something cool in there, like
I, you know, I don't know. Youdon't know what's in each
person's crevasse, which is eacha person's emotional turmoil,
pain, sorrow, whatever it is.
And so when somebody's in thatand they want to stay, you got
the respectful thing is, is tonot force them out, because they
will, because they want to stay,they will pull you in. And I'm
(14:31):
sure you've had theseexperiences with people where
it's just negative, negative,negative, negative, negative,
negative, negative, and doesn'tmatter. They want to stay
negative, and they're more thanhappy to let you get all
negative. And this doesn't helpthem, and it doesn't help you.
So what's what do you do? So youknow, one is, you know,
(14:52):
sometimes what's necessary, ifit's like, hey, we can't pull
the person out, they're pullingus in. Hey, we got. Cut the line
and just let this person go.
Sometimes that's that's the bestthing. It's challenging, but
that's the thing, because theway I look at myself, the type
of ice explorer I am, is I'mheading to a top of a mountain,
(15:15):
and my goal is to go to someterrain that's never been done
before, and to find ways thatit's going to be easier, so that
people can just more easily walkup this path, without having to
fall into crevasses and thingslike that, that there's going to
be a path that's created, that'scurated, that's easy to get up
higher on the mountain, so thenit can just be a place, a place
(15:37):
to enjoy. Now there's alwaysgoing to be another mountain. So
the way it works is, you gethigher up on the mountain. That
enables me to get up there, andthen I go a little further, and
then somebody else goes evenfurther. Then that's that's what
the human experience has beenwill continue to be for,
ideally, a long time. That's theway I see it now. So sometimes
(15:59):
you gotta, like, cut somebodyloose and just let them be in
the crevasse, and they'll eitherfind their way out, or they're
not. They're a capable humanadult. So this is, I'm talking
about adult humans with alltheir cognitive function.
Alright, that's limiting it tothat, and you might That's
cruel, but it's like, Hey, I gota job to do. I got a purpose
(16:19):
here in life. And I'm sure youdo too, and it's not to just
stay in the shit. I've been inthe shit with plenty of people
for plenty of, plenty of years.
Another option is you can, kindof like, you don't have to just
fully cut them loose. You cankind of like, cut them loose and
put a pin in it, and you can goup and then you can check back,
and maybe they're ready to comeback out. Maybe they're like,
they've had enough of that, andlike, okay, as enough of that.
(16:41):
Like, all right, let's, let's goadventure and back up that
mountain. I'm ready for you,right? And the thing is, is, so
that's when somebody doesn'twant to come out. And the thing
is, is that each of us is gonnafall on the crevasse. So that's
why it's important to have ateam with you. And ideally, you
have more people that they arefocused on getting up that
mountain, and they don't want tobe in the crevasse. But we're
(17:03):
each we're each going to kind oftake turns at like falling in,
and we're going to take turnsbeing the ones that are able to
provide that stability to helppull somebody out. And so
I had a great opportunity withsomeone close to me where they
had a lot of challenging stuffgoing on, and some tears started
(17:24):
flowing, and I was in a spacewhere I was just able to be
there, hold space and physicallyhold and allow this person to
just to just cry, to just be, tojust express effectively this
person, they'd fallen in thecrevasse, And I'm like, I got
you. I got you. And, you know,they the crying, the emoting,
(17:46):
the whatever is sort of likedangling, getting your feet,
whatever, and then it's like,you're ready, and then they come
on out. And what's great isthey're out. And, you know, then
a couple days later, I was like,Oh my gosh, I'm, I'm having a
lot of emotion, a lot of stuff'scoming up, and I had my therapy
appointment. And so mytherapist, he's, he's, he's a
(18:07):
man on my team who's, you know,we're, we're chained together as
we're all going up, going upthis glacier mountain, and it's
like I've fallen in, and he'sthere to hold space for me. He's
there to hold the line, makesure I don't go in too deep,
that, you know, I can, I can bein there, do what I need to do,
and then get on out, and thenbegin. So it's really you want
(18:31):
people on your team thatthey're, they're heading up the
mountain in their own way. Andyou want to be able to hold each
other at different times, topull each other back up, and not
everybody's wanting to go up themountain at the same pace, the
same rate, or even wanting to goat all right now, and that's
okay. So if somebody's notwanting to go, they don't, they
(18:53):
don't have to stay on your teamthat's heading up the mountain.
So you kind of justrespectfully, you let them stay
where they're at, and maybe youcan check in and see if they're
ready, but if not, hey, don'tjudge that. Don't judge that.
That's just not for you, butmaybe that's for them, and you
don't even know what you'remissing at because maybe there's
so much amazingness, so much somuch growth, so much learning,
(19:16):
so much depth that they aregetting in their experience. And
who are you to take that awayfrom them? Who am I to take that
away from them? So having therespect to let people have their
experience, while also havingthe respect and love for
yourself and knowing like whatexperience you want to have and
find your co travelers that aregoing to allow you to, you know,
(19:38):
sort of take turns of taking thelead, where you're likely to
fall in, and then you're goingto need the support to get
pulled back out. And then it'sgoing to switch where somebody
is going to be taking the lead,somewhere they're going to fall
in, and then you're ready,you're the one that's able to
we're in this together. We arein this together. Yet we're all
not necessarily going to thesame place on the same schedule
(19:59):
in the. Same way, and we got torespect the different journeys
that we're all having. And sowhen you're somewhere and it's
like, it's not your turn to fallin the crevasse and you're it's
your turn to basically standstrong on the stable ice, and
somebody might be pulling,tugging on you, and you got to
(20:20):
discern, hey, is there somethingI can do, something about? Do I
need it pull out? Or do I needto, like, cut them loose? Or do
I need to, you know, just put apin in it, you know, and let
them, let them hang out for awhile. Here's how you handle
that. It's very, very important.
You want to, you really want tohave some practices where you're
able to notice, you know thatyou're you're having an
(20:41):
emotional response, and able to,like, Bring yourself back into
the present moment, and you'renot going to let your your
emotional response, youranxiety, your monkey mind, to
go, just go and run down to thatcrevasse, run into that pit of
what's going on with somebodyelse. So practices where you're
able to come back to the presentmoment of what's true, what's
(21:03):
now. And the only things I'vedone other episodes that are
true, that are always going tohelp you come into this place of
equanimity, neutrality, ofresourced ability, is getting in
touch with anything you'reexperiencing right now. So
that's, what are you seeingwithout the labeling? Just like,
(21:24):
oh my gosh, I this. I just seesomething in front of my eyes,
and just noticing it with allthe depth and attention you can
or, what are you hearing? Whatare you feeling? What's your
breath like? So just thepictures, sounds and feelings
without labels, but just puttingyour attention and just like, oh
yeah, putting your fingertipstogether, and just oh, I can
(21:47):
really feel, I can feel theridge of each of my fingertips,
or taking a breath, and justlike, Ah, I just, I could Hear
my breath. I can feel that theheat or the temperature
difference as it goes in and outof my nose, and I feel my chest
expanding or contracting, justgetting really into what is
(22:10):
happening right now, becausethat is true, the emotions, the
thoughts, the opinions, thequote, unquote news. It's just
like anything else on TV, justlike anything else you might
read. There's they, they'restories. And when you come to
this place of truth, yourecognize that you are the
(22:32):
writer and the editor, thedirector, whatever you will, of
the story. But when you justsort of like allow something to
go, you've given up yourcontrol, and you're allowing
somebody else to direct yourlife. And the more we each
direct our own individual lives,the more we can support each
other, and the more we can eachmake it to the mountain top that
(22:55):
we are meant to go and witnessand do something and that
enables other people to do theirjourneys so much more easily and
joyfully and amazingly. Soreally be curious how this is
landing for you guys. Like, isthis something you can, you can
implement? Is this somethingthat you could actually, you
(23:16):
know, let people go for a while,or maybe for the rest of your
life, or just allow them to havetheir reaction without really
getting into the pit, gettinginto the crevasse with them. And
then, do you have the people inyour life that you know that you
can fall into the pit that allowyou to be, you know, the front
runner in whatever you're meantto be going for? And so you
(23:38):
you're not afraid to fallbecause, you know, hey, these
people got me. Because if youdon't, then maybe let's work on
that. Maybe reach out, contactme, and let's, you know, maybe I
could be one of those people foryou. Or, you know, find
somebody. Find multiple people Ihave. I have multiple people
that are on my team that I knowthey got me if I fall into the
(23:59):
pit. So then, when I'm someplacewhere I'm like, I think this is
going to be leisurely, andsomeone falls into the pit, I
can go all right, I'm not goingin there right now. Maybe I'll
go later when I got my team, myteam with me. I can be part of
somebody else's support team,but I'm going to be discerning
of, hey, is this something I cando now, or does this person just
(24:19):
need to spend some time here?
And it really is the most lovingkind thing you can do to anybody
on this earth is to let themmake their own choices. Because
if you let others make theirchoices, it empowers you to make
your choices. And I want you tomake the choices that are best
for your life, and I'm going tomake the choices that are best
(24:40):
for my life, and then we cancollaborate and do amazing
things together. And that's, tome, what it really is all about.
So with that, I'd love to hearwhat you're thinking about this
topic. If you're, you know, allin, ready for more stuff like
this? Or if you're like, I'mnot, I know, Justin, I don't,
you can't. This is horrible. Ifyou think it's horrible, don't
(25:01):
listen anymore. Like, go dosomething else. Like, this is
not for you. This is either foryou or it's not, like, if you're
not getting something out ofthis that's making your life
better than, like, go dosomething else. I don't want, I
don't want to hear yourbitching. I really don't. I
don't if it, if you gotsomething and we can work on it
to help get you out. Let's dothat. But if you just want to
(25:23):
stay down there, I'm not comingin with you. So I'm not, I don't
want to hear about a bunch ofcomplaining. But if I want to
hear you, know you're like,Okay, how do I how do I do this?
How do I work with this? I'mcurious. Or, yeah, let's hear
that. So with that, let me know.
Thanks for listening. Do youremember to, like, subscribe all
those things, and with that,take care and good day. Thanks
for tuning in to engineeringemotions and energy with Justin
(25:47):
Wenck PhD. Today's episoderesonated with you. Please
subscribe and leave a five starreview. Your feedback not only
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it just as much as you dotogether, we're engineering more
amazing lives you.
We're all not necessarily goingto the same place on the same
(00:03):
schedule in the same way, and wegot to respect the different
journeys that we're all having.
It's not your turn to fall inthe crevasse. It's your turn to
basically stand strong, stableice, and somebody might be
tugging on you. And you got todiscern, hey, is there something
I can do something about or do Ineed to, like, cut them loose?
Or do I need to, you know, justput a pin in it, you know, and
(00:24):
let them, let them hang out fora while. Here's how you handle
that. Are you ready to live alife with enough time, money and
energy have relationships andconnections that delight you?
Are you ready for theextraordinary life you know
you've been missing. If so, thenthis is the place for you. I'm a
(00:44):
best selling author, coach,consultant and speaker who's
worked in technology for overtwo decades. I'm a leader at
transforming people andorganizations from operating in
fear, obligation and guilt torunning off joy, ease and love.
It's time for engineeringemotions and energy with me.
Justin Wenck PhD, welcome today,I'm going to be talking about
(01:13):
how can you handle the crazinessthat's going on in the world,
and maybe with some of thepeople around you, either new
people, strangers or peopleyou've known for most of your
life, I've been experiencingthis. A lot of people I keep
running into are experiencingthis, and I hear this
everywhere. I'm just like, oh,it's seems like the world is
(01:34):
bananas, as the profoundphilosopher Gwen Stefani said
bananas, B, a n, a n, a s,bananas. So how to make a banana
split or a banana smoothie whenyou're presented with so much
bananas? That's what we're goingto be talking about today, and
this could be possibly one ofthe most impactful shows you
(01:58):
watch or listen to. So if youare watching this on YouTube,
thank you. And if you're notsubscribed, please do and thank
you if you already are so happyto have you here. And it's also
possible that this might be theepisode where you're just like,
I'm out. This show Justin putson is not for me, and that's the
(02:20):
case. This show is not foranybody. But if you do listen
and get this message, and you'relike, oh my gosh, I get it, now,
you're going to be in and you'regoing to be having a much more
enjoyable life with much biggerimpact, impact. Probably, I know
a lot of my listeners that arealready doing big, big things,
(02:41):
yet this can shift so much inyour life, those around you, and
possibly even those you maynever even meet or experience.
That's how profound what I'mabout to share with you is. So
it's, how do you find that stateof equanimity? I believe that's
how you say the word, butbasically that like that
composure, that balance, thatneutrality in the face of
(03:04):
craziness, of all sorts oftriggers or turmoil or traumas,
how, how, how, how. That's whatI'm going to be talking about
today. And I've gotten so manyopportunities to to practice
this. So that's why I'm like,Okay, I got to share this with
with you guys, my listeners,because I love you. I love you
(03:26):
guys. I want your I want thingsto be easier and I want to be
more enjoyable. But I trulybelieve that we're not meant to
be, you know, working hard andhaving to grind all the time
doesn't mean there isn't goingto be work. Doesn't mean that
life's not going to happen. Justwe don't need more than we've
we're already going to need toexperience all right, it's a big
thing. Of what my book engineerto love is about, and what this
(03:49):
podcast is about is, how canthere be more joy he's in love
in our life. So I recently wasat a lunch gathering. And I was
like, Oh, this is going to begreat. Because this was a, I was
told, this is a highly curatedevent in Silicon Valley, with
people that go, go to all sortsof tech events, or in the tech
(04:13):
industry things like that.
That's what I that's what I wastold. But this group would be,
you know, of more conscious,more aware. Those that you know
have their kind of, have theirshit together. They're not just
there going, like, I don't lookdoing B to B sass. Can I sell to
you? Can Do you have, do youhave a job for me? Do you have
(04:34):
this so that, like, we can makemore money and go public and IPO
and, you know, doing got 100xthis and that, that, and all
those, AI, I love those people.
I don't, I don't enjoy beingaround them. So I was like, Ah,
this is gonna be great, like agroup that I can just kind of be
myself with, relax, kick backand enjoy. Turns out, there was,
(04:54):
there was one attendee who waskind of like a late ad. Yeah, by
the by who was hosting, and sowas not actually part of the the
curated group of, sort of like,you know, the the host who was
putting together the group, butwasn't actually the host of of
the gathering, if that makessense. And so there's one
(05:15):
individual where it was like,Oh, shit. This is not going to
be relaxing. I am, I am now. I'mnow working basically, but I'm
like, I don't want to work thathard. So basically, this, this
individual she had, she shouldhave issues with her mother. And
have you ever realized thatsometimes you, you know, start
talking with somebody and theysay they have a problem. They
(05:39):
say they don't want it anymore.
But if you're really payingattention, they have their
problem because it's theirs, andthey own it, and they're not
ready to let go of it. It's,it's, it's part of, like the
family treasures or somethinglike that. It's, it's like some,
you know, old, shitty relicthat's been passed down
generation to generation. Andit's maybe it stinks, maybe it's
(06:03):
ugly, maybe it takes up a bunchof space. And just like, why
don't you get rid of that thing?
And it's like, well, but it'sbeen, it's been here for so
long. This is mine. This ismine. It's part of who I am.
People usually can't say it likethat, but that's just kind of
like, okay, I guess, I guess youlike it. And that's how this
woman was with with herproblems, because this group of
people is brilliant. People doit a lot, have a lot of
(06:25):
experience. Maybe them coaches,you know, do therapeutic works,
in addition to all things theymaybe do technically and in the
business world and philanthropy.
And at one point, I just had tobe like, Hey, I understand this
is like a challenge. Just Ididn't come here to coach
somebody, and I don't know ifanybody else here did. And I'm
(06:48):
also curious, I know thatprobably many of the people here
would be able to solve yourproblem in an instant, if you
wanted to. Yet, if they didoffer that, would you actually
be open to that? Would youactually be ready to lay your
problem down? And it was, it wasamazing. You know, the the woman
with the problem didn't, didn'thear that at all, and just was
(07:12):
just kind of didn't, didn't hearme, which I wasn't surprised.
This is why I don't coach peopleunless they want to be coached.
You know, I didn't always usedto be that way, but now I'm very
much like, Hey, do you do youwant this? Do you does this
because I don't want to, I don'tlike to waste effort. Part of
having an easeful life isrecognizing when your efforts,
(07:32):
when your energy, are going tobe fruitful, and also
recognizing when they're not. Sothat's, that's one of the first
things, is to check in on andthen. And I was like, Okay,
that's cool. But I was like,hey, if the group wants to keep
going this way, that's fine, butI just want to check with the
group if this is what everybodywants to do. And the group was
(07:53):
just kind of like, did what mostpeople do. And I think this is
sort of a little bit of showinghow maybe we have, at least here
in the United States. And I'msure those of you listening in
other parts of the world haveseen how the United States is
going. Is it maybe theleadership just kind of, you
know, just Does, does what theywant without really checking in.
(08:13):
Hey, is this what everybodywants? And most people just kind
of go like, you know, I don't, Idon't want to be rude. I don't
want to be rude or mean, so Iguess I'll just sit here
and take it, and then I'm gonnago bitch and whine and complain
fucking afterwards, which iswhat a lot of people do have
been doing. It's like the daythe day to use your voice was
(08:35):
Election Day, or there's lots ofways to use your voice
productively, and I've noticed alot of people just like to, you
know, they don't do things whenit can be productive. They want
to. They want to have theirproblem, much like this woman,
have the problem. This group ofpeople, in some ways, wanted to
have a problem person that theycould just, you know, throw
stuff at and be like, I'm beingnice. I'm helping. Look at me,
(08:56):
I'm doing it's like, no. I mean,you're being nice, but you're
not being helpful. Being kind isto go, Hey, let's see what's
going on here. Is this what wewant to do? Is this helpful? But
then the group was like, Hey,this is what we want to do
effectively. And it continued.
And so this is where it getsonto what the next thing is.
This is what you can always do.
(09:17):
So there's so first thing is, isto check in and ask hey, is this
to speak up when you do seesomething or feel something?
Because if you're uncomfortable,probably other people are too.
So if you have the voice and theability and the capability to do
so, then do so, and it doesn'tmatter you know what you look
(09:37):
like, where you come from, ifyou feel like I got there's
something that could be said,and I think I can do it then, do
it now again. Be discerning. Bewise. Maybe there's nothing to
say, maybe there's nothing todo, and maybe even if you say
something, maybe it won't dosomething in that instance, but
it is having an impact, becauseI heard from several people
afterwards that they were soglad I spoke up and at least
(09:59):
kind of said, what a. Lot ofpeople were feeling and
thinking. So here's the nextpart of you're in a banana
situation. Somebody's off therails, just like, complaining,
complaining, complaining, andthey just continue to want to
have their problem is that youjust sit there and work on being
at peace. So that's what I did,is it's like, this woman would
(10:19):
say things and I'd just be like,That's bullshit. That's awful.
That makes the sense. But then,because I was working on
breathing and being there andbeing in equanimity,
occasionally she would saythings that I'm like, Well, that
makes sense. That's brilliant. Idon't have to just judge this
person just, you know,blanketly, I'm actually able to
be able to be in the moment andbe able to respond accordingly.
(10:44):
Instead of just, I'm justreacting based off of maybe
something that was said that Ididn't like, and then now I'm
going to react negatively toeverything again. Do you think
some of the things happening inthis world that you turn on the
news when you know you hearabout this and that and whatever
that maybe if you were in astate of equanimity, if you were
calm, if you were neutral, youcould respond to what's actually
(11:07):
happening, what's actually beingdone, what's actually being
said, as opposed to just losingyour shit. So one metaphor that
I want to bring up that I thinkthis is going to be a real big
game changer. So I want you topay very close attention,
because this is effectively whatI was, I was doing during this
little lunch gathering, is whena group of people wants to go
(11:31):
hike on a glacier. So I've neveractually done this. So if you're
someone that goes glacier hikingand actually knows this, and I'm
really fucking up this, you knowhow it works and things like
that. By all means, let me knowin the comments, message me so
that I can, you know, maybelearn something. But I think
you're going to forgive some ofthis, because it's, it's more
(11:53):
about the metaphor to paint thepicture of what we're doing in
situations like this. And again,this lunch situation was with a
group of, a group of people thatyou know, very educated, very
resourced, yet even the mostresourced, capable, aware, we
all have our moments. And thisis, this is where this metaphor
becomes very key. So when peoplego hiking on a glacier, they
(12:17):
there's a big possibility ofwalking along, walking along,
and what looks like solid ice,solid ground is not It could
just be pure snow, or it couldbe thin ice that then would
break as soon as somebody stepson it, and then you fall into a
crevasse and die. And I lovesaying crevasse, because it's
(12:38):
got a little us, and it's got alittle craw crevasse. And so
people that go hiking thesituations, they know this is an
inherent danger. And so theywill, they will link up. They
will tie to one another, so thatif the first person falls down,
the people remaining behind arethere to hold anchor and pull
(12:59):
that person back out and atthis, at this gathering,
effectively, it's like we are agroup of people. And you know
this one woman is effectively,you know, having a challenge. We
all have challenges, right?
That's that that's equivalent toa fallen fallen down the ice,
possibly going to crevasse. Andwe're there with our string,
with our with our chord,whatever it is. And it's like,
(13:23):
we got you. We got you. Now inactual, you know, Glacier
hiking, the person who fallswants to get the up out and is
going to be willing to help to,you know, come up. So it's like
the people that didn't fall pulland the other person is gonna,
you know, do what they can tohelp get the fuck out and human
experience, human interaction.
(13:47):
The person who has fallen intothe crevasse does not actually
always want to get outimmediately. The big important
thing is you got to recognizethis and respect them for this
desire, and let them have theexperience. Because there could
be some cool stuff in thiscrevasse. There could be, you
know, something to learn,something to gain. Maybe
(14:08):
there's, there's some diamondsor something cool in there, like
I, you know, I don't know. Youdon't know what's in each
person's crevasse, which is eacha person's emotional turmoil,
pain, sorrow, whatever it is.
And so when somebody's in thatand they want to stay, you got
the respectful thing is, is tonot force them out, because they
will, because they want to stay,they will pull you in. And I'm
(14:31):
sure you've had theseexperiences with people where
it's just negative, negative,negative, negative, negative,
negative, negative, and doesn'tmatter. They want to stay
negative, and they're more thanhappy to let you get all
negative. And this doesn't helpthem, and it doesn't help you.
So what's what do you do? So youknow, one is, you know,
(14:52):
sometimes what's necessary, ifit's like, hey, we can't pull
the person out, they're pullingus in. Hey, we got. Cut the line
and just let this person go.
Sometimes that's that's the bestthing. It's challenging, but
that's the thing, because theway I look at myself, the type
of ice explorer I am, is I'mheading to a top of a mountain,
(15:15):
and my goal is to go to someterrain that's never been done
before, and to find ways thatit's going to be easier, so that
people can just more easily walkup this path, without having to
fall into crevasses and thingslike that, that there's going to
be a path that's created, that'scurated, that's easy to get up
higher on the mountain, so thenit can just be a place, a place
(15:37):
to enjoy. Now there's alwaysgoing to be another mountain. So
the way it works is, you gethigher up on the mountain. That
enables me to get up there, andthen I go a little further, and
then somebody else goes evenfurther. Then that's that's what
the human experience has beenwill continue to be for,
ideally, a long time. That's theway I see it now. So sometimes
(15:59):
you gotta, like, cut somebodyloose and just let them be in
the crevasse, and they'll eitherfind their way out, or they're
not. They're a capable humanadult. So this is, I'm talking
about adult humans with alltheir cognitive function.
Alright, that's limiting it tothat, and you might That's
cruel, but it's like, Hey, I gota job to do. I got a purpose
(16:19):
here in life. And I'm sure youdo too, and it's not to just
stay in the shit. I've been inthe shit with plenty of people
for plenty of, plenty of years.
Another option is you can, kindof like, you don't have to just
fully cut them loose. You cankind of like, cut them loose and
put a pin in it, and you can goup and then you can check back,
and maybe they're ready to comeback out. Maybe they're like,
they've had enough of that, andlike, okay, as enough of that.
(16:41):
Like, all right, let's, let's goadventure and back up that
mountain. I'm ready for you,right? And the thing is, is, so
that's when somebody doesn'twant to come out. And the thing
is, is that each of us is gonnafall on the crevasse. So that's
why it's important to have ateam with you. And ideally, you
have more people that they arefocused on getting up that
mountain, and they don't want tobe in the crevasse. But we're
(17:03):
each we're each going to kind oftake turns at like falling in,
and we're going to take turnsbeing the ones that are able to
provide that stability to helppull somebody out. And so
I had a great opportunity withsomeone close to me where they
had a lot of challenging stuffgoing on, and some tears started
(17:24):
flowing, and I was in a spacewhere I was just able to be
there, hold space and physicallyhold and allow this person to
just to just cry, to just be, tojust express effectively this
person, they'd fallen in thecrevasse, And I'm like, I got
you. I got you. And, you know,they the crying, the emoting,
(17:46):
the whatever is sort of likedangling, getting your feet,
whatever, and then it's like,you're ready, and then they come
on out. And what's great isthey're out. And, you know, then
a couple days later, I was like,Oh my gosh, I'm, I'm having a
lot of emotion, a lot of stuff'scoming up, and I had my therapy
appointment. And so mytherapist, he's, he's, he's a
(18:07):
man on my team who's, you know,we're, we're chained together as
we're all going up, going upthis glacier mountain, and it's
like I've fallen in, and he'sthere to hold space for me. He's
there to hold the line, makesure I don't go in too deep,
that, you know, I can, I can bein there, do what I need to do,
and then get on out, and thenbegin. So it's really you want
(18:31):
people on your team thatthey're, they're heading up the
mountain in their own way. Andyou want to be able to hold each
other at different times, topull each other back up, and not
everybody's wanting to go up themountain at the same pace, the
same rate, or even wanting to goat all right now, and that's
okay. So if somebody's notwanting to go, they don't, they
(18:53):
don't have to stay on your teamthat's heading up the mountain.
So you kind of justrespectfully, you let them stay
where they're at, and maybe youcan check in and see if they're
ready, but if not, hey, don'tjudge that. Don't judge that.
That's just not for you, butmaybe that's for them, and you
don't even know what you'remissing at because maybe there's
so much amazingness, so much somuch growth, so much learning,
(19:16):
so much depth that they aregetting in their experience. And
who are you to take that awayfrom them? Who am I to take that
away from them? So having therespect to let people have their
experience, while also havingthe respect and love for
yourself and knowing like whatexperience you want to have and
find your co travelers that aregoing to allow you to, you know,
(19:38):
sort of take turns of taking thelead, where you're likely to
fall in, and then you're goingto need the support to get
pulled back out. And then it'sgoing to switch where somebody
is going to be taking the lead,somewhere they're going to fall
in, and then you're ready,you're the one that's able to
we're in this together. We arein this together. Yet we're all
not necessarily going to thesame place on the same schedule
(19:59):
in the. Same way, and we got torespect the different journeys
that we're all having. And sowhen you're somewhere and it's
like, it's not your turn to fallin the crevasse and you're it's
your turn to basically standstrong on the stable ice, and
somebody might be pulling,tugging on you, and you got to
(20:20):
discern, hey, is there somethingI can do, something about? Do I
need it pull out? Or do I needto, like, cut them loose? Or do
I need to, you know, just put apin in it, you know, and let
them, let them hang out for awhile. Here's how you handle
that. It's very, very important.
You want to, you really want tohave some practices where you're
able to notice, you know thatyou're you're having an
(20:41):
emotional response, and able to,like, Bring yourself back into
the present moment, and you'renot going to let your your
emotional response, youranxiety, your monkey mind, to
go, just go and run down to thatcrevasse, run into that pit of
what's going on with somebodyelse. So practices where you're
able to come back to the presentmoment of what's true, what's
(21:03):
now. And the only things I'vedone other episodes that are
true, that are always going tohelp you come into this place of
equanimity, neutrality, ofresourced ability, is getting in
touch with anything you'reexperiencing right now. So
that's, what are you seeingwithout the labeling? Just like,
(21:24):
oh my gosh, I this. I just seesomething in front of my eyes,
and just noticing it with allthe depth and attention you can
or, what are you hearing? Whatare you feeling? What's your
breath like? So just thepictures, sounds and feelings
without labels, but just puttingyour attention and just like, oh
yeah, putting your fingertipstogether, and just oh, I can
(21:47):
really feel, I can feel theridge of each of my fingertips,
or taking a breath, and justlike, Ah, I just, I could Hear
my breath. I can feel that theheat or the temperature
difference as it goes in and outof my nose, and I feel my chest
expanding or contracting, justgetting really into what is
(22:10):
happening right now, becausethat is true, the emotions, the
thoughts, the opinions, thequote, unquote news. It's just
like anything else on TV, justlike anything else you might
read. There's they, they'restories. And when you come to
this place of truth, yourecognize that you are the
(22:32):
writer and the editor, thedirector, whatever you will, of
the story. But when you justsort of like allow something to
go, you've given up yourcontrol, and you're allowing
somebody else to direct yourlife. And the more we each
direct our own individual lives,the more we can support each
other, and the more we can eachmake it to the mountain top that
(22:55):
we are meant to go and witnessand do something and that
enables other people to do theirjourneys so much more easily and
joyfully and amazingly. Soreally be curious how this is
landing for you guys. Like, isthis something you can, you can
implement? Is this somethingthat you could actually, you
(23:16):
know, let people go for a while,or maybe for the rest of your
life, or just allow them to havetheir reaction without really
getting into the pit, gettinginto the crevasse with them. And
then, do you have the people inyour life that you know that you
can fall into the pit that allowyou to be, you know, the front
runner in whatever you're meantto be going for? And so you
(23:38):
you're not afraid to fallbecause, you know, hey, these
people got me. Because if youdon't, then maybe let's work on
that. Maybe reach out, contactme, and let's, you know, maybe I
could be one of those people foryou. Or, you know, find
somebody. Find multiple people Ihave. I have multiple people
that are on my team that I knowthey got me if I fall into the
(23:59):
pit. So then, when I'm someplacewhere I'm like, I think this is
going to be leisurely, andsomeone falls into the pit, I
can go all right, I'm not goingin there right now. Maybe I'll
go later when I got my team, myteam with me. I can be part of
somebody else's support team,but I'm going to be discerning
of, hey, is this something I cando now, or does this person just
(24:19):
need to spend some time here?
And it really is the most lovingkind thing you can do to anybody
on this earth is to let themmake their own choices. Because
if you let others make theirchoices, it empowers you to make
your choices. And I want you tomake the choices that are best
for your life, and I'm going tomake the choices that are best
(24:40):
for my life, and then we cancollaborate and do amazing
things together. And that's, tome, what it really is all about.
So with that, I'd love to hearwhat you're thinking about this
topic. If you're, you know, allin, ready for more stuff like
this? Or if you're like, I'mnot, I know, Justin, I don't,
you can't. This is horrible. Ifyou think it's horrible, don't
(25:01):
listen anymore. Like, go dosomething else. Like, this is
not for you. This is either foryou or it's not, like, if you're
not getting something out ofthis that's making your life
better than, like, go dosomething else. I don't want, I
don't want to hear yourbitching. I really don't. I
don't if it, if you gotsomething and we can work on it
to help get you out. Let's dothat. But if you just want to
(25:23):
stay down there, I'm not comingin with you. So I'm not, I don't
want to hear about a bunch ofcomplaining. But if I want to
hear you, know you're like,Okay, how do I how do I do this?
How do I work with this? I'mcurious. Or, yeah, let's hear
that. So with that, let me know.
Thanks for listening. Do youremember to, like, subscribe all
those things, and with that,take care and good day. Thanks
for tuning in to engineeringemotions and energy with Justin
(25:47):
Wenck PhD. Today's episoderesonated with you. Please
subscribe and leave a five starreview. Your feedback not only
supports the show, but alsohelps others find us and start
their journey of emotional andenergetic mastery. You can also
help by sharing this podcastwith someone you think will love
it just as much as you dotogether, we're engineering more
amazing lives you.
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