How a Bioinspirationalist Learns from Nature to Spark Ideas & Ignite Action with Dr. Jeff Karp, Enneagram 7

Episode Transcript
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Jeff Karp (00:00):
by getting better at asking questions and finding a

(00:03):
way to focus my attentionthrough questions, I was not
only sort of stoking mycuriosity and activating my
brain, but I was like, infusingcreativity into my mind into my
life.
And so, to me, I feel likeanybody can do it.
Anybody can get better at askingquestions.
And you can even, you can evenbring this to social settings.

(00:25):
Like, you know, and.
Connect more with people becausewhen you're, when you start to
become curious about somebody,that's when I think the real
deep connections kind of open up
Hello, and welcome back toEnneagram and real life.
A podcast where we explore howto apply our Enneagram knowledge

(00:48):
in our daily lives.
I'm your host Steph Barron hall.
And on today's episode, I have areally interesting conversation
coming for you.
So, today I'm actually talkingwith a bio inspirational list
and.
Our guests today, we'll actuallyshare a little bit more about
what that means.
but basically taking, someinspiration from nature to apply

(01:09):
that to.
Solving problems in the realworld.
And in particular, this guest isa biomedical engineering
professor and inventor.
And the author of a brand newbook that is out today.
I already have it selected on mylibrary app.
So I'm really excited to checkit out and I hope you are as
well.
But throughout this episode, wetalk with Dr.

(01:30):
Jeff Karp.
And he talks a little bit aboutbeing a kid with ADHD.
And his Enneagram type, which istype seven and a little bit
about having kind of thatmaximalist type seven attitude
and applying the concepts ofradical simplicity to his
approach, to his work.
Um, he told a story on his Tedtalk, which I can link below.

(01:50):
about some of the ways that heapproached things early in his
career and how he changed hisapproach.
To be more simple and actually alot more successful in
developing solutions foreveryday problems.
So we talked a little bit aboutwhat inspired his book, which is
called lit life.
Ignition tools.
what he means by low brainenergy state versus high brain

(02:11):
energy state.
How doing new things canactually help us get into that
high brain energy state.
A four step process to bringmore awareness to ourselves and
to our thoughts,, connecting toour census, to help us get out
of our heads, which I know for alot of head types that's really
useful.
But even for me, that's helpfulas well.
I'm a heart type, as anEnneagram three, but I have a

(02:33):
really difficult time sometimesconnecting more to my body.
It's a lot easier for me toconnect to the head center.
So, um, I find that this ishelpful for me to, and then we
talked about creativity andcuriosity.
And how small changes throughoutour day-to-day life can create
more momentum.
I think one thing I appreciateabout sevens is when they feel

(02:54):
like life is stagnant or theydon't really enjoy or appreciate
what they're doing in the day today.
They say, well, okay, I'm goingto change this.
Um, if I can't change it, I willaccept it.
But first I'm going to try tochange it.
So I really appreciate thatabout sevens and, um, Dr.
Karp offers us some of that inthis conversation today as well.
So.
I don't want to keep you toolong here.
Uh, I want to jump right intothe interview.

(03:16):
And like I said, this is such afascinating and interesting
interview.
I have never interviewed a guestthat was a biomedical engineer
and just such a cool job.
And I'm so many fresh andinteresting perspectives that he
offers and, and brings to notonly this conversation, but also
his book, which I'm reallyexcited to pick up.
So.
Dr.

(03:36):
Jeff Karp is an acclaimed mentorand biomedical engineering
professor at Harvard medicalschool and MIT.
As a child, his teacher wantedto hold him back in the second
grade.
And as an adult, he got his PhD,became a celebrated professor
and member of the nationalacademy of inventors and a
distinguished chair at theBrigham and women's hospital
where he has co-founded 12companies amassed over 100

(03:58):
patents and received 50 awards.
Fueled by his life ignitiontools.
Which he calls Litt L I T.
Jeff turned to nature forinspiration to revolutionize lab
practices.
Now Jeff is sharing his lessonsand his debut book.
Lit aims to empower others, totake themselves off autopilot

(04:19):
and unlock their own reservoirsof potential.
So grab a copy of the book inthe show notes, and I really
hope you enjoy this episode.
if you want to learn more aboutDr.
Jeff Karp, you can find hiswebsite@jeffkarp.com.
That's K a R p.com.
So, um, without further ado,here's my conversation with Dr.

(04:40):
Jeff Karp.

Steph Barron Hall (04:42):
Well, Jeff, welcome to the podcast.

Jeff Karp (04:44):
Hey, it's great to be here.
Thank you.

Yeah.
I'm excited to talk with you.
And, um, I know a little bitabout your work, um, just
because I did some Googling andI also watched your TEDx talk,
which I thought was reallyhelpful, um, about radical
simplicity and using failure as.
Kind of a jumping off point,which I really appreciated.

(05:08):
Um, and so I'd love to hear alittle bit more about your
background and where you comefrom.

Jeff Karp (05:15):
Absolutely.
Um, yeah, I mean, you know,whenever I get that question,
I'm trying to figure out, okay,where do I start?
Right?
Because there's so manypossibilities and talking about
failure.
I would say, you know, there'sjust been so much of it in my
life and so many struggles.
I mean, we could go back andstart in grade 2 if you want.
Um, we could start in myundergrad and my grad.
I mean, there's just so many, somany different ways to start.

(05:37):
Um, maybe where we were a goodplace like to begin is, is, um,
Yeah.
Yeah.
is actually in grade two,because that's where my life
really took a massive turn.
Um, so I had undiagnosed ADHDand, um, learning differences.
I didn't know it.
Um, my parents didn't know it.
My teacher certainly didn't knowit.

(05:59):
And I was just struggling, um,so much because of it.
Um, I couldn't sound out words.
I couldn't really, I wasn'tlearning anything.
Um, I was sitting at the back,frustrated, angry.
Kind of demoralized, um, likereally not connecting with
anyone either.
At the end of the year, theteacher sort of pulled my

(06:19):
parents aside and said that hewould like to hold me back a
year and repeat the secondgrade.
And my parents negotiated thatif I spent the summer, um, with
special tutors and things that Icould go on to the third grade.
So all my friends went onvacation and I spent the entire
summer with, with tutors.
And what happened was, um, oneday I went in and I'll never

(06:45):
forget.
It was just such atransformational thing that
happened.
Because, um, we were likereading this passage, and they
asked me some questions, andthen they said, How did you
think about that?
And no one had ever asked methat before.
Um, and I was just kind of, itwas literally like one of these
like light bulb moments that Iwas like, wait a moment.

(07:06):
I can think about how I think Ifeel like I was like an
impulsive child just said whatwas ever on my mind just did
sort of like acted impulsivelyand things and.
It was like this portal or thiscanvas sort of opened and I
could now, before I spoke, itwas like this awareness.
I had all of a sudden thisawareness of my thoughts that I

(07:27):
never had before.
And, um, And I started to bringthat to all kinds of things in
my life.
Um, just one example, I startedto notice like, you know, here's
this super distracted kid,pretty extreme on the spectrum.
And I noticed anytime I asked aquestion that I, my attention
would be like hyper focused fora few moments and that I could

(07:49):
actually learn something andretain something and that it
wouldn't just be in my workingmemory, but it could go into my
long term memory.
And I could start connectingdots between what I.
Already knew and I, you know, soit was like and that totally lit
up my brain.
Um, and I was like, oh, wow,this is really interesting
because I need to ask a lot ofquestions like that is a tool

(08:10):
for me to survive.
And, um, and so that's reallywhere things.
began and where a lot of thetools that I've been developing.
Um, and I, and, and I didn't getidentified.
Actually.
One other thing I'll say is Ididn't get identified.
Um, the school didn't want, wantto identify me, um, because they
just were under resourced anddidn't know too much about it,
but my mom, like was a massivesupporter.

(08:33):
Went up against the school boardin the seventh grade, prepared a
massive file on everything, um,all the things teachers said
about me, like, you know, theywere calling me like lazy and a
lost cause.
And just, you know, like, um,all kinds of nasty things that
she went to the school board andactually push for them to
identify me as having learningdifferences.
And I got, um, diagnosed withADHD and my grades went from

(08:56):
season D's to A's.
The struggles did not stop.
It was still like, you know, Iwas always like kind of working
and exhausted, but I just like,that was a, such a liberating
moment for me.

Yeah.
Yeah, it's so helpful.
Like, I I really like that storytoo, because I was diagnosed
with ADHD at the end of gradschool.

Jeff Karp (09:16):
Hmm.

And I was like, Oh my God, things would
have been so much easier if Ihad known this all along.
You know?
Um, it's eyeopening.

Jeff Karp (09:26):
it, it actually, like, I don't know.
There's just something about it.
I feel it's, you know, it's apersonal thing, but there's
something about having thatdiagnosis and being able to sort
of rationalize, you know, Idon't know, for me, like how my
mind works and stuff.
And then even my, So, um, duringcovid, she attended some

(09:47):
sessions like group sessions forpartners of people who have ADHD
and it was like, like, for her,it was like a jaw dropping
experience because everybody wastalking about the same thing.
And it was almost like, I feellike.
She felt maybe at times that thethings I would say or the things
I would do, it was, I wasintentionally doing it, you

(10:08):
know, maybe to upset her, butlike, if you kind of heard like
everybody, it was like, that'sjust how it is.
And I mean, I've been trying todevelop tools to overcome these
challenges and sort of deal withit, but it's still like, you
know, every day is a bit of astruggle, I would say, but for
her, it was just so kind ofearth shattering for her to hear
that what she was experiencingis exactly the same as what

(10:30):
other.
Partners of people who have ADHDexperience on a daily basis.

Yeah.
Got to get my husband on that,uh, group call every time I
leave the, all the cabinets openin the kitchen.

Jeff Karp (10:43):
Yeah.
I mean, I leave things out allthe time as well, because it's
like, if I don't see it, then Idon't think about it.
So I kind of strategically leavethings everywhere and then, but
my wife is like super clean andtidy and like everything's super
organized, which is amazing.
But then I, I forget a lot ofthings because then I don't see
them, you know, like

that doesn't exist anymore.

Jeff Karp (11:03):
yeah, yeah, yeah,

Like no object permanence.

Jeff Karp (11:06):
Yes.
Yes.

That's so funny.
Well, okay.
So let's talk a little bit aboutyour Enneagram type, because I
think even as people are alreadylistening to this conversation
so far, they might already havea guess.
Um, so I'm curious if you wantto share a little bit about your
type and just discovering theEnneagram.

Jeff Karp (11:24):
yeah, yeah.
So I'm a seven, um, anenthusiast, um, and I feel like
it pretty much fits me to a T,um, and, you know, just, um, I
don't know.
I just.
In my, just give you an example,like in my laboratory, so I run
a research lab, um, at HarvardMedical School at the Brigham
and Women's Hospital, and my labis focused on the process of

(11:48):
medical problem solving andbringing that to many different
problems, and so we don't reallyhave a focus other than the
process, and so we've beenworking on, you know, treatments
for arthritis and cancer, Andinflammatory bowel disease and
developing needles and implantsand diagnostic devices.
And it's like all over theplace.

(12:08):
In fact, at one point, the chairof my department came to me and
said, like, hey, no, one's goingto understand what you're doing
unless you focus.
Um, and I was, I.
Tried to take that adviceseriously, but I realized, um,
you know, sevens can't reallyfollow that advice because it's
like, you know, it's like in theDNA, right?
Like the programming, the wiringto really just constantly be

(12:32):
interested in new experiencesand experimenting.
And so I just learned that thatreally is part of my, that
that's what I'm passionate aboutis just constantly getting into
new areas, experimenting withnew things.
And even with my routines andlet's say rituals in life, I'm
sort of of the mindset that, um,I never like to keep anything,

(12:52):
even if it's going really wellfor and for a long period of
time, because I always feel likethere's something else.
I want to try.
Um, so I, I like purposely sortof break up the, you know, it's
like break up the ritual so thatmaybe there's an opening to
something else might come inthat I never tried before.
That would be exciting to do.

yeah, well, and I think that makes a lot of
sense, especially with sevens,like wanting this constant
mental simulation, um.
And, you know, the passion oftype seven being gluttony in the
sense of like wanting to justtake all of these ideas, sample
everything, try a little bit ofeverything, but you have this
tool that you talked about inyour TEDx talk, which is radical
simplicity, um, that helps youfocus a little bit more.

(13:34):
And can you share a little bitabout that?

Jeff Karp (13:37):
Absolutely.
Um, so that actually I learnedthrough a fairly painful
experience.
Um, so, uh, if we go back, let'ssay, to, um, 2008, I had just
started my laboratory, um,about, you know, in 2007.
And, um, you know, it wastowards the end of 2008.
And we had developed atechnology, um, that I was just

(14:01):
super excited about.
I mean, we were on the cusp ofsomething, what I thought was
huge, which was we'd figured outhow to take stem cells out of
the body and program them sothat you could infuse them back
into the body through thebloodstream and have them go to
different sites in the body,like on demand, like almost like
a GPS for your car.
We.

(14:21):
Figure it out a way to do thatwith stem cells.
So, for example, you know, youcould potentially use it to
target the bone to treatosteoporosis or to the heart to
prevent progression from heartattack into heart failure or to
the brain to treat neurologicalconditions.
And we had data showing, like,preliminary data suggesting that
we could do this.
And so I went to, um, aninvestor in town, um, flagship

(14:46):
ventures.
I met with the.
The founder and, um, you know,so excited.
I couldn't sleep the nightbefore I go in.
I'm like, you know, a little bitnervous, but I'm really excited.
And I go through the data andI'm kind of like have this smirk
on my face.
And I'm like, I, I'm like, I, wegot this in the bag.
Like, well, this is, this is forsure a company materials.
And he leaned over new bar thatthe head of flagship ventures,

(15:08):
he leaned in and he goes, youknow, this is really exciting,
but we're not going to do it.
And I was like, what?
And he goes, it's just toocomplicated.
And I didn't really hear him saythose words per se, because when
he said, we're not going to doit, I was like, so shocked.
It was, it was like the firstmajor project in my laboratory,
um, that I'd just like poured myheart into.

(15:29):
I was so excited about it.
And so I went back to my lab andI kind of knew Like through
encountering so many strugglesand failures and challenges
along the way that emotionsassociated with these things
tend to dissipate after a day ortwo or three, you know, just get
a good night's sleep.
And then that's when this windowopens, where I feel like I've

(15:49):
gained the greatest insights inmy life, like, after a failure,
once the emotions start tosubside, when it start to be
kind of like, I'm a little bitcurious about what just happened
and sort of connecting things indifferent ways.
And I was like, wait a moment.
There's a question that wefailed to ask, which is what
happens after.

(16:11):
We develop a technology in thelab, like, how does it get to
patients?
We just developed thetechnology.
We didn't even think of thesteps afterwards, like going to
a clinical trial or themanufacturing complexity, like
all these different things.
Um, and, um, when I was like, weneed to change things.
So that's where this concept ofradical simplicity was born,

(16:32):
which is, I think of it as theart and discipline of minimizing
complexity at all levels.
So it's like complexity onlywhen needed.
And so, um, for every projectmoving forward in my lab, um,
radical simplicity was at theheart of it.
And also, you know, I neverforgot that question, you know,

(16:53):
what happens next?
And so I ended up doing allsorts of things.
To, to maximize the potentialthat everything we worked on in
the lab, um, could get topatients as quickly as possible.
So, um, and there are all kindsof things I do, which I'm happy
to talk about.
But that, that concept ofradical simplicity has just been
so critical to everything thatwe do.

Yeah, that makes sense.
And I think that it would take alot of, um, mental energy to be
able to harness that becauseIt's like almost more mental
energy than it would take tojust be curious and like jumping
all over the place all the time.

Jeff Karp (17:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's some sort of, I don'tknow, really magical focus that,
or this window into a focusedstate that I think you can, you
can step forward into.
After a failure, you know, it'skind of like after the rain, you
know, like it's just, there's,there's something there that you
can sort of feel.

(17:49):
And, um, it, it's like these,these sort of like windows that
have opened after thesechallenging times have just been
crucible moments in my life.
And in some ways I've almostsought them out.
Um, and, you know, one of thethings I just really want to
emphasize in all of this is.
My mom's support.

(18:10):
And I think this is so importantbecause I feel like just like
children need a lot more supportthan we think they need.
Um, and, and I got that, I gotthat support from my mom.
And I think that was one of thereasons why in my life I've been
able to have courage to takerisks and fairly big risks, even
though I've encountered major,like catastrophes and disasters

(18:34):
kind of along the way.

Yeah, yeah, I've got to shout out to moms,
you know,

Jeff Karp (18:40):
Yeah.

yeah, I remember, um, just thinking
about the ADHD thing as well.
Like my mom would put me on likea mini trampoline

Jeff Karp (18:47):
Hmm.

to help me like, stay moving while I was
learning things

Jeff Karp (18:50):
Oh,

and that was so helpful.
And we didn't know I had ADHD,but she's like this, this little
girl can not focus.
So, yeah,

Jeff Karp (18:58):
handle where he's just like a trampoline and there
was like a little handle infront of it and you could,

We didn't have the handle.
I don't think that they reallycared as much about the safety
portion.
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, okay.
I want to pivot a little bit andtalk about your book, which is
called lit life ignition tools.
And the subtitle is use nature'splaybook to energize your brain,
spark ideas and ignite action.

(19:25):
Tell me a little bit about yourbook and how it came to be.

Jeff Karp (19:30):
sure.
Um, so, um, so the, the, so, solid is really all about, you
know, just, it's, it's, it's,it's the concept.
I think the big idea is reallysimple.
It's taking yourself offautopilot to live to your full
potential.
And it's this sense that, um.
That, you know, we're justinundated these days with

(19:52):
information and stimuli comingat us from all directions.
And I think it's just morechallenging than ever to be
intentional in our lives, tomake deliberate decisions and to
act deliberately and even thinkdeliberately.
Um, and.
And so lit is a set of 12 simpleholistic tools that can help us

(20:17):
tap into this incredible energythat we all have within, um, and
activate this heightened stateof awareness that we can bring
to any situation, um, to deepenour everyday experiences and
really build and develop.
Tensionality into everything,and it kind of came to be
because, um, and my wifeactually reminded me of this,

(20:39):
um, that when she met me, um,back in the year 2000, I used to
carry around all these notebooksand it wasn't like I was doing
like serious.
Journaling, but I would justwrite down my thoughts.
Um, and I said to her,apparently at one point that I
was going to write a book oneday.
Um, and so what happened was,um, like seven years ago or so
an agent from New York reachedout because we do a lot of work

(21:01):
in my lab, uh, in bioinspiration.
So turning to nature forinspiration for new ideas.
Um, and you know, we've lookedat like how geckos walk on
surfaces and hang from a singletoe and there's no chemistry
there.
It's all kind of physicalgeometry interactions.
It's really interesting.
And we've looked at slugs andsnails and sandcastle worms and.

(21:22):
Porcupine quills and spider websand jellyfish and, you know, all
kinds of different things.
We're looking at a lot ofcreatures in the ocean now.
But there was an article inFortune magazine on some of the
work that we had done.
And so Heather Jackson from NewYork reached out and said, Hey,
how would you like to write abook on bioinspiration?
And I thought about it and I waslike, you know, actually, that
sounds pretty interesting.

(21:43):
But what I'm feeling more,what's really transmitting, you
know, kind of more for me.
Is to write a book about all ofthese tools and strategies that
I've been developing in my lifethrough all the struggles with
learning differences and ADHD.
And that's what I really want toshare.
I don't know.
I've always had this sort ofinner desire to share.

(22:06):
Like sort of to figure outprocesses that work for me and
then to share it with others.
And so when I do my scientificpresentations, I don't show that
much data.
I actually talk mostly about theprocesses that I use to figure
things out.
And so this book to me wasreally how can I just share with
the world all of these processesand tools that I have used to

(22:30):
kind of get back up from thestruggles and the challenges
that I face.
And to really just thrive inlife and in every possible way,

Wow.
I, that's so cool to thinkabout, um, solving things as
nature does because obviously wecan learn a lot from nature in
general.
Um, wow.
Okay.
I, I don't have like a coherentquestion.

Jeff Karp (22:54):
Yeah.
I mean, I could say one morething about it if you want is
like, you know, it's like, youknow, the way I like to think
about nature and there's so manyways that I think about nature.
So I'll just talk about one hereis, um, Evolution is the best
problem solver, right?
So like anything that's alivetoday, you know, plants or
animals has overcomeinsurmountable challenges to be

(23:15):
here.
Like there's all sorts ofchanges that have happened in
the environment and thesecreatures have adapted to
survive.
And so we're literallysurrounded by solutions, and so
these can be ideas that we canlearn from, gain insights from,
to help solve problems.
Um, and there's so manyexamples, like even like, you

(23:35):
know, examples people might beable to connect with, like, In
Japan, the high speed train, um,they were, they were going
through these tunnels and it wasbreaking the sound barrier and
created these loud noises.
And so they changed the shape ofthe, um, the front of the train
to mimic the Kingfisher, um,bird, which like basically dive
bombs into the water to get itsPrey, and so they did that so it

(23:59):
would prevent these loud booms,you know, from coming out of the
tunnel.
And there's just so manyexamples.
There's like a beetle in thedesert that can collect water on
its back, like through like themoisture in the morning.
And it has these little microchannels that it then it like
directs it to its mouth.
And so people are now using thatto collect fog in, um, you know,

(24:21):
very dry places to then, youknow, collect water.

That's so cool.
So fascinating.

Jeff Karp (24:28):
Yeah, nature is like just so, um, I mean, there's so
many facets of nature and Ithink, you know, we're kind of
also getting to this point wherethe science is, is, is becoming
more and more, um, developed andunderstood about how, when we go
out into nature.
How it can switch, help usswitch from like the, the

(24:49):
sympathetic nervous system tothe parasympathetic nervous
system and really lower ourheart rate and our blood
pressure and, um, can give us agreater sense of well being and
develop an interconnectedmindset.
And so, um, and it's all there,right?
It's like, right.
Um, and, um, even watching ashow, like if you put, if you

(25:11):
just put on like a nature scene,like on YouTube, for example,
that's been demonstrated to havean effect as well.
It's not exactly the samemagnitude as if you're out in
nature, you know, having thatexperiential time, but just
watching nature.
Um, is has been demonstrated tohelp people like just have this
better this sense of wellnessand sort of calming, um, sense.

(25:34):
And so I've been experimentingwith all kinds of things in
nature recently.

Oh, so cool.
Um, Yeah, I think one of thethings that's related to that,
that you mention in your book isabout the high energy state or,
um, the brain and like a highenergy brain state versus low
energy state.
And I'm curious if you can sharea little bit about that.

Jeff Karp (25:53):
Yeah, for sure.
So, um, so this is kind of justhow I kind of think of this, how
I have experienced it.
And so what I've noticed is thatmy brain gravitates towards this
low energy brain, um, where itkind of anticipates what comes
next.
It's like this autopilot mode.
Um, you could even call it likethe, the low energy state, the,

(26:16):
the sort of a, um, this, uh, um,uh, Like, I'll give you an
example.
Like, let's say, um, you're onyour cell phone and it tells
you, you need to update yourpassword and so you update your
password, but then the next timeyou enter the old password, so
that's like the autopilot orsometimes let's say, if you're
driving your car and you get tothe destination, you completely

(26:37):
forget the route that you took.
Um, that's like this low energybrain state.
Or if you get to the end of ameal and you're shocked that
it's done, you can't evenremember a single flavor.
That you've experienced, um, orif you're walking around your
neighborhood and, you know,you're just sort of like lost in
your mind and you're not reallyexperiencing anything with your
senses.

(26:58):
Like, that's kind of anautopilot mode, or when you're
reading and you read a page or aparagraph and just nothing has
sunk in your mind to someonelike that's autopilot.
And so that's like the lowenergy brain state.
And so, to me.
There's all kinds of things wecan do to activate our brains,
and this has been essential inmy laboratory because we're

(27:19):
working on some really hardproblems.
And so I think, you know, 1 wayis turning to nature for
inspiration is a way to bring infresh ideas and fresh energy
into projects.
Um, so, you know, literally,like, just going and looking in
the literature on what peopleknow about how Ivy's able to
walk, like, to basically.
You know, crawl up buildings andput their little, um, root hairs

(27:43):
in and shrivel up andmechanically interlock.
Like, it just, this is likefascinating, like activates our
curiosity, activates our brains.
And so there's so many things wecan do.
To get our brains into a highenergy state.
And that's where we do our bestlearning.
That's where we sort of make thebest decisions.
That's where we do our bestthinking.

(28:03):
Um, and so in the book, youknow, talk, talk a lot about all
the different tools that we canuse to get our brains into this
high energy state so that we canreally, you know, maximize like
connections with people anddeep, bring deep meaning to our
lives and really maximizeinnovation in our.
In the workplace, for example.

Do you have an example of one of those
tactics?

Jeff Karp (28:27):
Sure.
Um, so there's, there's,there's, um, okay, so I'll give
you, um, an example.
There's so many examples.
So when I'm asked for anexample, I'm like, okay, which
one do I pick?
Um, but you know, one thing, forexample, is so one of the tools
is, is do new.
Um, and it's about how I,because I think what happens is,

(28:48):
is that as humans, we kind ofgravitate towards, you know, the
low energy state is also kindof, it's like habituation,
right?
Like, we kind of get used tosomething and our, our, our
neurons, our receptors, youknow, the neurons stopped firing
at the same magnitude as theydid when we were learning
something.
And so it kind of settles in andwe get kind of dealt with.

(29:08):
This is like this dullingeffect.
And so anytime we do somethingnew in our lives.
It really just like our brainslove it.
It's just like our brainsliterally glow orange on an MRI
when we're engaged in newactivities when we're kind of
and so you know one example islike, you know when I was in
high school and I was just youknow, struggling a lot with a

(29:32):
You know with my learningdifferences in ADHD and even
though I had been identified anddiagnosed It was still like, you
know, I was meeting withteachers after school every day
on the weekends.
I was going in.
Um, and, um, and there was thistrack and field day and, um, I
was not athletic.
Like, I was the kid who, like,only got on base for baseball.

(29:53):
When I got walked or when I washit with the ball, like that's
like, well, that's like, youknow, just never athletic, but a
track and field day, for somereason, I just felt gravity
towards discus.
There was like, um, you know,and so I, um, and I, you know, I
know wasn't very good at it, butI bought a discus and, you know,

(30:13):
arrived at my house.
And I went and the art teacher,I knew the art teacher knew a
little bit about discus.
So I went and I just said, Hey,can you show me how to throw it?
And so he actually became mycoach and I started to learn how
to throw discus.
And it gave me this like senseof purpose, this like fresh
energy in my life.
And it just helped witheverything else that I was
doing.

(30:34):
And I actually ended up placinglike third in my city.
And then I got to go on to likethe next, because I, I would
just, I loved it.
I mean, it just was something tolook forward to every day.
Yeah.
And, uh, in my laboratory, youknow, if we kind of just fast
forward to my lab, it's likewe're working in so many
different areas right now.
And to me, that's like doing newon a daily basis.

(30:55):
And I just love learning aboutnew things.
And, you know, there's a certainvulnerability that you need to
have, I think, to.
Embrace new things.
But once you experience thatfresh energy and you feel like
your brain being activated, likethere's all sorts of
neurotransmitters that areassociated with like dopamine
and endorphins and serotonin andoxytocin and you know, all kinds

(31:18):
of things.
It's just to me, it's justsomething that Is a goal of mine
on a daily basis, you know, andnow it kind of comes more
naturally because I've just beendoing it, um, a lot, but, um,
it's something that anybody canengage, um, you know, in their
lives and just bring in thatfresh energy on a daily basis.

It kind of sounds like you have a natural
bent toward this, but what ifpeople are built a little bit
differently and they're reallyintimidated by not knowing
anything?
How can we change that mindset?

Jeff Karp (31:50):
So I think one way is, um, so one of the processes
I like to engage, um, it's likea four step process.
Um, and I call it flip theswitch, um, which is noticing
your inner desire forpossibility as the first step.
So this could be in arelationship or it could be in
like, you know, a hobby or askill that you want to learn or

(32:13):
the workplace or something withpersonal evolution.
And like, just sort of.
Being aware and open to thecues, you know, I feel like
we're constantly getting cuesfrom our minds.
Our bodies are very intelligent.
We're getting cues from the bodyand we're getting cues from
other people that we'reinteracting with.
And, um.
And so I feel like this justjust sort of noticing this inner

(32:35):
desire for possibility is thefirst step and you know, it
takes time.
It's just sort of like tuninginto those cues.
Sometimes we need to sort ofslow down a bit, create a space
in our schedule to be open tothe cues.
And by the way, this is one ofthe things I found that's so
incredible about.
Like technology and it, youknow, it lets in my relationship
with technology because I'vebeen like, okay, I don't want to

(32:57):
be on my cell phone as much.
I don't want to do this as much,but that never works.
Like if I just say, okay, I'mgoing to reduce it.
But if I say I want to be open,my intention is to be open to
the cues from my mind and mybody.
I can't get those cues if I'm onmy phone.
Right.
And so I need to put the phoneaway.
So I found that by setting theintention of being available to

(33:21):
these cues and noticing my innerdesire for possibility, then I
just, I naturally, I'm not goingto go to my phone because I just
have to sort of sit with it.
And my thoughts are sort of, youknow, maybe the racing or maybe,
you know, they're kind ofsitting in one place or another,
but I'm just starting to sort ofget a feel for like, how are my
emotions, my feelings?
Like, what am I excited about?

(33:42):
Um, so.
Cool.
Once you sort of notice that,the second step is to take stock
of what's working and holdingyou back.
And so it's kind of goingthrough and saying, okay, maybe
I'm doing a bunch of things inmy day that I really like, but
maybe there's this hobby I usedto have when I was in high
school or in, you know, and Ihaven't done it and I'd really
like to get back into it, but Ifeel like just so busy and I

(34:05):
don't know where it would fitin, but I really like sort of
like figuring out what's workingand what's holding you back.
Like, oh, that hobby reallyBrought energy to my life and I
don't have it right now.
And then the next thing is sortof thinking about other ways of
thinking and other possibilitiesand sort of, you know, and this
is, you know, and again, it'slike bringing awareness, um, and
sort of engaging in a process.

(34:27):
So, it's, it's the, the goalhere is not necessarily to just
do something new right away.
It's really to find a process toengage that can just open your
mind a little bit and to createa little.
space for you and to be able tothen just take a small step
forward.
And so for me, that kind of stepof, of, um, noticing other

(34:49):
possibilities, other ways ofthinking it's, it's maybe like
having conversations with otherpeople, like, Oh, like how did
you like, what were your hobbieswhen you were younger and how
did you start getting back intothem?
Or you seem really passionateabout this.
How do you find time for that?
And I feel once you start tokind of bring your awareness to
these other possibilities.

(35:09):
You start noticing peopletalking about them all the time,
right?
It's like, it's like sort oflike when you go outside and you
walk somewhere every day andthen finally you see something
and you're like, it's been therethe whole time, but you've never
seen it because you just didn'thave awareness to bring to it.
And then the final step is justtaking a deliberate step
forward.
Um, and.

(35:30):
To me, that can be a small step,um, and so, again, I just feel
like there's a lot that we cando, but if we sort of look at
things, and I've, this is kindof how I think about everything
in life, is like, if I'm notdoing something right now that I
want to do, or that I'm not goodat, it's because I'm not engaged
in a process that works for me,and I need to figure out that

(35:53):
process.
And so the focus becomes on theprocess and not the end goal.
And every time I feel like I'mable to focus on the process, I
make steps forward.

Yeah, it's just a more open minded
approach, I think.

Jeff Karp (36:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.

It's kind of funny, I um, I've told this
story before, but recently I waswalking, actually this was like
a year or two ago, so not thatrecently, but I was walking in
my neighborhood on the same paththat I always walk, right?
Like, just making my same loop,and I was not paying attention.
I, I think I must've just beenlooking up because I definitely

(36:32):
wasn't looking down, like, and Iwasn't looking at my phone, but
I was listening to something andI heard a noise in front of me
and I looked up right before Ialmost, like, ran flat into a
wild turkey that was right inthe sidewalk.
I was so close to just likewalking into this thing and
those are huge and they're mean.
You do not want to kick

Jeff Karp (36:53):
We have some in my neighborhood.
So yeah, I know.
Yeah.

was like, Oh my gosh, what am I doing?
I'm like, not even aware of mysurroundings.
And I think that it can be soeasy.
It's like that habituation youwere speaking about earlier,
just to be in that, that kind ofloop and to not hop out and be
like, Oh, actually what'shappening around me.

Jeff Karp (37:16):
Yeah.
So I've had the exact sameexperience.
And one of the things that I'vedone to try to, um, evolve,
let's say.
Is as I'm walking outside.
I've been experimenting withcycling through my senses.
So let's say I have two dogs areactually sitting beside me right
now.
Well, one's here.
One's back there.
But, um, I, when I walk them,I'll say like, okay, site, and

(37:39):
I'll try to just focus onlooking at, like, the texture of
the bark on the trees or thecolor of the leaves.
And then I'll say sound and I'lljust, you know, kind of try to
focus on my sense of sound andlisten for the birds of sort of
like the rustling of the leavesof the wind through the, and
then I'll say touch and I'llfeel like the wind against my
face or like my feet kind ofhitting the ground.
Usually I'm sort of slow walkingat this point because I'm really

(38:02):
trying to tune in and, um.
You know, you could say taste, Imean, you know, if there's
something left from breakfast inyour mouth or something like
that, or smell, you know,sometimes there's a smell in the
neighborhood, but I find throughdoing this, it really helps me
to get out of my head and to getmore into connecting with my
senses.

(38:22):
And I feel this, when I do that,there's this sense of calm, this
sort of reduced anxiety, thisjust sense of wellness, um, when
I can bring my focus to my,like, senses versus just be sort
of in this, um, state of mymind, just rumination and, and,
you know, kind of thinking ofwhat just happened or what's

(38:43):
going to happen next, you know?

Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And it's just this sense ofpresence and awareness that can
be difficult, especially ifyou're just like always, you
know, fast walking everywhere,which many of us do.

Jeff Karp (38:59):
Oh, I accelerate.
I noticed that.
So that's one of the thingsthat, um, you know, another tool
that I, I go, it's kind of likea key go to tool.
I like to think of it as presspause.
And it's, um, it's really about,you know, how I found I just
need time to processexperiences, process knowledge
that I've just learned to slowdown.

(39:21):
And when I do that, when I makethat an intention, like if I'm
walking, I start to bringawareness to it.
And I realized like, wait amoment, I'm Accelerating like
every time I sort of, you know,stop, look at something.
It's like I accelerate forward.
And so kind of getting in touchwith that and slowing down has
just, it's just expanded my mindin so many ways.

(39:43):
Like even just sort of when Ilook at the birds and I'm just
now I'm sort of.
Interested in seeing how they'recommunicating with each other
and seeing how, you know, thesquirrels, like, what are the
pad?
Like, there's so many patternsto sort of recognize when you're
out in nature of how differentbirds kind of interact with each
other.
And, um, like, this morning Iwas, uh, we have this pond not

(40:07):
too far from my house.
And I, I, um, I drop my daughteroff at school, I take our two
dogs through the woods and thenI sit down and I have my
breakfast and I like to now siton this rock and just be at the
pond and there were like thesetwo swans that were there and,
um, these two ducks kind ofswimming towards me and, you
know, I was just like, I was,you know, it was just so

(40:27):
peaceful, but yet I'm also sortof, you know, Curious about what
they're doing and like, youknow, like how their
relationships going and, youknow, there's just so many
things to think about, right?
When you, when you start to gooutside and connect with that
and really get in touch, Ithink, with the nuances of life.

Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so intentional.
Which takes a lot of energy andalso creativity.
And I think that's somethingthat I've been thinking about a
lot as we've been talking.
And I think there are a lot ofpeople that I've met anyway, who
just feel like they're notcreative.
And I wonder how you navigatethat, especially in talking

(41:07):
about this in your book aboutharnessing creativity and energy
to improve our wellness overall.

Jeff Karp (41:14):
Yeah, yeah.
I think there's sort of likethis general belief that, um,
people like, you know, can't,they're either creative or
they're not creative or youcan't really get better at being
creative or there are certainactivities that are creative and
others that aren't.
Um, and what I found actually.
Maybe I'll go back to, um, myfirst year in grad school, um,

(41:36):
because this, I feel like reallyunlocked my creativity, um, what
I'm about to say, and that isthat, um, so I get to grad
school and I go to theseseminars and, um, you know, I'm
barely able to pay attention,you know, kind of not really
sure what's going on just alittle bit here or there, get to
the questionnaire at questiontime at the end of the seminars,
like for invited speakers.

(41:58):
And it's like, yeah.
People like someone over hereare like, you know, three
o'clock sweater vest asked thisincredible question just cuts to
the heart of the wholepresentation.
And I was like, Oh, my God, thisis such an important question.
Why didn't I think of that?
You know, what's wrong with me?
Like, you know, start likeshaming myself.
And then, you know, someone overhere on my left asked like this

(42:18):
amazing question.
And I'm just like, again, why isthat?
Why am I not thinking of thesequestions?
Transcribed Um, and here I was,you know, having worked on
developing tools and questionshave been such an important part
of my life.
But yet these questions were notcoming to me.
And so I knew by that pointthat.
Like, I was like, okay, theremust be other possibilities
here.
Like, I noticed my inner desirefor possibility to get better at

(42:40):
asking questions.
Um, but I really didn't knowwhat to do.
And so I just sort of sat withit for a while.
And then I was like, I startedto think like, I used to play
chess with my dad a little bit.
And I think, you know, whatseparates like an amateur chess
player from a master chessplayer is pattern recognition,
being able to think, you know,like 10 moves ahead or, you
know, whatever, 12 moves orwhatever it is.

(43:01):
And I started thinking like,okay, maybe I can bring pattern
recognition to this.
What if I go to seminars andwrite down all the questions
that people ask?
Um, and so I, I literally didthat for like, you know, a
couple months and then I stoppedand I looked through and all of
a sudden I noticed.
That all the questions thatpeople were asking at the end of
seminars, that there was likefive categories.

(43:23):
Sort of just that, that I couldput these questions under, you
know, like related to like, canwe trust the data?
You know, did they, did theexperiment run properly?
Are the results important?
Did they run the rightstatistics?
Um, did they overstate theirconclusions?
Like there were a bunch of likecategories.
So then when I went to the nextseminar, it's like I had my
detective hat on.
Now I was paying like.

(43:46):
Detailed attention to everythingthey were saying, because I'm
looking for holes and whatthey're saying, because I want
to ask one of these importantquestions at the end and what
happened was, is that that,like, all of a sudden, and so
now paying more attention, I'mimprinting the knowledge more
into my mind.
I'm learning more, but I'm alsostarting to recognize that I'm
connecting dots from what I knowbefore to what they're saying,

(44:10):
and I start coming up withideas.
I'm For what they couldpotentially try next.
So by getting better at askingquestions and finding a way to
focus my attention throughquestions, I was not only sort
of stoking my curiosity andactivating my brain, but I was
like, infusing creativity intomy mind into my life.

(44:32):
And so, to me, I feel likeanybody can do it.
Anybody can get better at askingquestions.
And you can even, you can evenbring this to social settings.
Like, you know, and.
Connect more with people becausewhen you're, when you start to
become curious about somebody,that's when I think the real
deep connections kind of open upand, uh, and so I think, you

(44:52):
know, and I've done this too, isjust sort of in social like
networking events or whatever itis.
Sort of, there's always a fewpeople who are really great at
socializing.
And so I listen to whatquestions they're asking.
And then I start to think aboutasking those types of questions
to then connect with others.
And, you know, then it's likewhen you, you form that
connection and then when youlisten to the answer, you deepen

(45:14):
the connection.

Yeah.
I like that you.
Um, and I think it's reallyimportant that we use that kind
of as an invitation to learn howto solve this puzzle versus over
identifying with, oh, I'm justnot good at asking questions
like it became a puzzle tosolve.

Jeff Karp (45:29):
Yeah, and that's the thing like I realized like I, I
used to have that mindset and Ifeel like I've been able to
Rewire it over time and that'sanother thing like I think like
we have like our Neuroplasticityour ability to reprogram our
brain to rewire our brain tostrengthen connections prune
away old connections It's likeour evolutionary inherited It's

(45:53):
like, everybody has thatcapability.
Like no one can take that awayfrom you.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like nobody can take your sensesaway from you.
Like you always have that.
And so what I found is that whenI am more intentional with
things in my thinking, in myactions, then I develop these
new patterns.
I develop new habits.

(46:13):
And so I can now like shamemyself much less than when I
used to, um, because in, andinstead of saying like, oh, I'm
bad at that, I just think, okay,I probably just haven't engaged
a process yet that works for meand I just need to find it.

I appreciate that.
Like the yet portion of that alot.
or advice can you offer topeople who are really struggling
to, you know, shake up theirroutines or maybe they're
feeling stuck and they want tocreate more positive change in
their world.

Jeff Karp (46:46):
So I'm a big believer that, um, you know, most things
that we do have a domino effect,um, throughout our lives and,
and in the lives of otherpeople.
And so I think that, um, youknow, sometimes with our, our
busy lives and, and, you know,back to back, you know, whatever
we're doing, um, I think thatthere's like literally tiny

(47:09):
little changes that we can makein our life that will start to,
um, build our confidence.
To then and, and create momentumfor us to, to take bigger steps.
So it's really about just tryingto find those tiny little
things.
And, and this may sound silly,but some things that I've done
before is like brush my teethwith the other hand, you know,

(47:30):
cause it, it kind of shakes upyour brain and it feels really
weird at first.
And you're kind of like, I'm notgood at this and it takes me
twice as long.
So why, why would I do it?
But I find when I start doingit.
And then if I stay with it for afew days or a week or whatever
it is, and I start gettingbetter at it, and it's like, I'm
literally rewiring my brain inthe process.

(47:52):
And I think once you start doingthat, your brain wants more of
it, and then it's easier tochange other things in your life
as well.
So there are, like, you couldjust change the route that you
drive to work, or you couldtrain, change the path you take
when you walk around yourneighborhood, or, so just making
these small changes in ourlives, I think, like, it, it

(48:15):
activates our brains, it startsto rewire them, um, and it opens
the door to, to, to make iteasier to make other changes in
our lives.
And so I think that's kind ofwhat one of the things that we
can do.

Yeah.
It's like something simple, butalso something that has a little
bit of an injection of fun orjoy or curiosity or
gamification.
Like that seems to be a reallyhelpful aspect of that.

Jeff Karp (48:44):
Yeah, for sure.
And I feel like there's this,you know, practicing, something
can get boring at times.
And I feel like if we can findways to infuse joy in our
practices, um, and, and I thinkpart of that is being open to
the cues.
Like, let's say if you startbrushing your hand, your teeth
with the other hand.
It's not going to be a funexperience the first time, but

(49:05):
like two or three times later,you might be like, wait a
moment, I'm kind of getting abit better at this.
And that feels there's like thisincremental good feeling about
that, you know, and so tuninginto that for for making these
changes, I think, can also bereally, really helpful.
So looking for, um, like, sortof tuning into when our brains
get excited and feeling thatfresh energy being infused in.

(49:29):
And, you know, we can alsochange, like, You know, the way
that, that, you know, sometimesI'm like, Oh, why am I using
this tone of voice with thisperson every time, or why do I
interrupt them or why, why am Inot holding space for them?
I feel like there's, so we canmake changes like that, like
before going into conversationswith people, let's say if I'm

(49:50):
meeting with people in my lab, Inow have this ritual where I'll
say, this person is the mostimportant person in their life.
Right?
And so if I say that before I gointo the conversation, it sort
of sets the tone in my mind thatthen creates this reference
point or this sort of, you know,this, this grounding for the

(50:12):
whole conversation.
And so these are the tiny thingsthat we can do that can just
start to create, you know, getthe ball rolling and create this
domino effect for more change inour lives.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I like that a lot.
Um, I heard I was, uh, justreading this book, um, this week
about feel good productivity.
It's by Ali Abdaal, who is oneof my favorite YouTubers and he
wrote this book and he talksabout being sincere, but not
serious.
Approaching things withsincerity, but not being too
serious about it.
Like having that lightness,which I really appreciate.

(50:45):
And I think that's reflected inwhat you're just sharing.
Yeah.

Jeff Karp (50:59):
these two ducks kind of fly down, and the part of the
pond had frozen over, and theylanded right in front of me, but
they just slit, because theylanded on the ice, you know, and
I was just like, Kind of likenoticing that and sort of
realizing like, that's a prettyfunny thing, you know, like, I
don't know, just, I thought itwas ridiculous, right?
That they like landed and theyjust kind of slid, you know,

(51:19):
like, it's like, um, and, and,and I just feel like there's
these, there's these nuancedthings happening all around us.
And if we just bring ourawareness, our attention to it,
we start to realize that, um,that, that there's just so many
things out there that.
Yeah.
Can stoke our curiosity, butalso make a smile.
Make us laugh.

(51:40):
You know, they're all rightthere.
Um, and I'll give you anotherexample.
And maybe this is a little toofar out there, but, you know, I,
um, actually, there's a coupleexamples, but one is if I look
outside, right?
And I see like a tree blowing inthe wind.
This happened to me recently.
I was thinking to myself, okay.
I could think of this as justthe wind is hitting the tree and

(52:01):
it's blowing back and forth, butI could also think of this as
like the tree is waving at me,you know, like the tree is
waving at me and that will makeme feel good.
Right?
Like, wow, I'm like connectingwith the tree.
Right?
And I don't know, like, I justfeel there's so many things like
that.
A friend of mine bridge, he saidto me, he said to me recently
kind of connected to this.

(52:21):
He goes, you know, if somebodybuilt a bird, like actually made
a bird, he said, um, And thenshowed it to people, people will
be like, Oh my God, this isunbelievable.
But yet here we see a bird andwe're just like, Hey, that's a
bird, you know, and it's thatsense of like, how do we, it's
like, just by naming things, Ifeel like it just this kind of

(52:44):
human nature to put things inboxes, um, and to have just
nomenclature for everything, itreally takes away from the
connection that we can have withit.
And so I've been also trying todo that as a practice to kind
of, when I see birds, I'm notlike, oh, that's a bird.
I'm more like, just like, wow,like, how does it fly?

(53:05):
And look at that, like, youknow, how is this possible?
And, you know, like, look at thepattern of the flight and, you
know, just trying to kind oftune into these types of things.
I feel it also just brings a lotof joy to my life and, and
gratitude as well.

Yeah.
And having that interaction withnature too is required because
you can't really observe it.
I mean, you could watch it onYouTube, but like I had a dove
fly into my house recently and Iwas like, oh my gosh, it was
like a little stressfulactually, but it landed on a
picture frame.
And I was amazed that thispicture frame didn't budge.
It's because the dove was solight.

(53:42):
And I am still thinking aboutthat.
Like, I'm like, Oh wow, that'sso crazy.
Like how light that animal is.
It looks really plump, you know,but it's actually weighs
probably like practicallynothing.
And, you know, it just made methink about all these different
things about how doves are and,and birds are.
And, um, but it's that up closeinteraction in some sense that

(54:04):
allowed that concept,

Jeff Karp (54:07):
there's there's a number of books that have been
written recently about awe andhow it literally is just like
all around us, and it's almostlike we've been habituated by
our culture or other things tonot sort of make it a priority
to embrace.
But when you start to develop anawareness, um, that, that is
something you can access on adaily basis, you know, all the

(54:29):
time, um, it really does bring asense of wellness to our life
and, and, you know, stokes ourcuriosity, activates our brain,
all sorts of positiveneurotransmitters.
It's just really good for us.
To to experience, uh, you know,like looking up at the night sky
and seeing the sea of or oceanof stars or, you know, just, um,

(54:52):
just, you know, thinking abouthow trees like are able to bend
towards the light.
I was I'm getting involved inactually some initiatives in
Panama and I've been to thejungle there and there's a tree.
There's like a tree thatliterally walks like it has
these, um.
Parts of it, uh, you know, partsthat kind of go out to the sides

(55:13):
and then what happens is itwalks towards the light because
the parts in the middle thatanchor into the ground like die
and then it creates like a newsort of like root system and it
just allows itself to pullitself through because in the
jungle there's just so muchvegetation there.
That it's just this massivecompetition for light.
And so now there's a tree that'sevolved to be able to walk

(55:36):
towards the light.
Um, and you know, these thingsare just unbelievable.

that's incredible.
Wow, nature is so cool.
I, I learning more.

Jeff Karp (55:47):
Yeah.
I mean, there's just so manyexample after example of, you
know, and then even just likethinking about, I mean, it's an
example people talk about a lot,but just like caterpillar going
to a butterfly.
I mean, it's just unbelievableto think about, like, how does
that happen?
And I feel like.
You know, maybe we've heard thata number of times, but there's
just so much there.
And I think the onus is kind ofon us to, to sort of take away

(56:11):
that nomenclature of like, Oh,that's just a butterfly, or
that's just a caterpillar.
Or we've talked about that somuch.
Why can't we move on tosomething else?
But like, there's just so muchto embrace in that and be
curious about, and be justawestruck by what's happening
all around us in our backyards.

Yeah.
I'm really excited for, formyself actually to get my hands
on your book, but also for ourlisteners too, because, um, just
thinking about these ideas is sohelpful to be like, Oh, I could
just like, look out my windowtoday.
And encounter something new orthink about something
differently just by observingnature.
So I'm really looking forward toreading your book and learning

(56:50):
more about that.
And I'm wondering if you canshare where people can find you
and your work and your book.

Jeff Karp (56:57):
Absolutely.
Um, so I'm just in the processof putting a website together.
Um, my name is the easiest oneto get to is, uh, jeff carpe,
carpe with a K dot com.
Um, and, uh, we'll have, uh, I'mgoing to have on the site, um,
you know, information about thebook and my laboratory, um, you
know, some of the projects thatwe're working on, the bio
inspired work.

(57:18):
Um, and, um, and also I'm goingto have a part on the site for
my mom to post her poems.
So she's been writing poems.
She's written like 300 poems inthe last year or two.
And, um, and, and so I, I liketo call her in the morning and
have her read me like a coupleof her poems.
And so, you know, just, she'sjust been so supportive.

(57:39):
It's kind of like the least thatI can do, like, and she's really
excited about it.
So you'll be able to go to thesite and read my mom's poems.

Oh my gosh.
I feel like your mom is going tobecome an internet sensation.

Jeff Karp (57:49):
Yeah, I hope so.

it.
Um, okay.
So I have two last questionsthat I ask everyone.
Uh, first off is tell me about abook that has helped you,
inspired you, or shaped you inthe last year.

Jeff Karp (58:02):
Wow.
Um, so I would say, um, well,there's a book called, um, Into
the Magic Shop, um, by, uh,James Doty, who's a
neuroscience, uh, actually aneurosurgeon at Stanford, and it
was a book that just, it's justsuch an incredible story, um, it
tells, it talks about hisstruggles early on in his life,

(58:25):
like through his childhood andhow he went into this, um, this
magic shop because he wasinterested in magic.
And the person who runs the shopwasn't there, but the mother
was, and she was basically like,I'm going to show you what real
magic is.
And it was all about compassionand how to learn to be
compassionate towards yourselfand others.

(58:47):
Um, so it was just thisunbelievable story.
And, and, um, you know, I have ahard time reading, so I listened
to it, but actually I've gottenbetter at reading so I can focus
my attention more, but Ilistened to it and I just loved
it.
It was, it was amazing.

Okay.
I'm going to go on my libraryapp as soon as we hang up and
find that because that soundsexcellent.
Um, okay.
Last question.
What is a piece of advice thathas really stuck with you?

Jeff Karp (59:12):
So, um, when I was doing my, my, uh, postdoctoral
fellowship at MIT, um, with BobLanger, um, who's just
unbelievable mentor on everylevel.
I mean, he's just, he's actuallyco founder of Moderna and a
number of other companies, andhe's just such a good person.
Um, and he has given me.

(59:33):
So much advice.
But one of the things thatreally stands out is he said,
you never want to limit anybody.
Um, and it's something that Ihave really thought a lot about,
like, as a mentor, you know,running a research lab with a
bunch of people and just kind ofthinking, like, there's so many
things that bring energy topeople's lives, like
extracurricular activities orhobbies or things like that.

(59:57):
So sort of seeing people's livesas being very holistic, that
it's just not about um, Whatthey're working on at that
moment.
It's really These othercomponents of their life are so
important to elevate everything,like they're going to do their
best research and their bestwork if they're constantly
evolving and trying new thingsand getting involved in

(01:00:19):
activities and, and, and also.
Working on other projects, like,collaborating with other people,
not just having 1 project, but,but, you know, sort of letting
them be empowered to use theircuriosity to explore things that
maybe aren't related to what wehave our grant funding for
things like that.
So.
Yeah, never limit anybody just,yeah, that jumps to mind is

(01:00:41):
something that's really beenimportant in my life.

Steph Barron Hall (01:00:43):
Yeah, that's great advice.
And it's also, it also kind ofreminds me of your story
overall, where in second gradeyou were almost held back.
And then, you know, now you workat Harvard, you did your
postdoctoral at MIT and likethese illustrious institutions
that as a second grader, youknow, I don't think that your
teachers would have expectedthat from you.

Jeff Karp (01:01:04):
Yeah, they said, well, they asked me, what do you
want to be when you grow up?
I said a doctor and they said,well, you better set your sights
lower because you don't have itin you.
Um, to do that, that was, thatwas one of the things, yeah,
that, um, that happened.
Actually, what ended uphappening is I did apply to
medical school and I didn't getin.
Um, so that was one of the bigkind of, um, challenges that I

(01:01:25):
faced at one point.
So maybe they're right aboutthat.
But, um, my career kind of tooka different trajectory.
I became very excited about, um,problem solving and just this
process of medical, medicalproblem solving.
And, and I've just found it, youknow, just so exciting.
And every day is, is, is, um.
There's just so much freshenergy, there's so many problems

(01:01:47):
that are just so important forus to help patients, um, with,
and, and that's what I've reallydedicated my career to.

Yeah.
And it's life changing forpeople.

Jeff Karp (01:01:57):
It is life changing, yeah, yeah, I mean, we have,
we've had a number oftechnologies that, you know, are
in clinical trials now, a bunchthat have actually made it to,
um, you know, to patients, andso it's just super rewarding to
see people benefit from thetechnologies that, that we've
been, you know, working so hardto develop in the lab.
Yeah,

I think we could talk for another hour
about all of these projects thatyou've developed, but I think we
should wind it down here.
So thank you so much for joiningme.
This has been a greatconversation and I've learned so
much and I'm excited now to goon my next nature walk.

Jeff Karp (01:02:31):
well, it's so nice to speak with you.
I really enjoyed this as well.
And, um, yeah, thank you somuch.

Of course.
Thanks so much for listening toEnneagram IRL.
If you love the show, be sure tosubscribe and leave us a rating
and review.
This is the easiest way to makesure new people find the show.
And it's so helpful for a newpodcast like this one, if you
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Sign up for my email list in theshow notes or message me on
instagram at nine types co totell me your one big takeaway

(01:02:59):
from today's show I'd love tohear from you.
I know there are a millionpodcasts you could have been
listening to, and I feel sograteful that you chose to spend
this time with me.
Can't wait to meet you rightback here for another episode of
any grim IRL very soon.
The Enneagram and real lifepodcast is a production of nine
types co LLC.

(01:03:19):
It's created and produced byStephanie Barron hall.
With editing support fromBrandon Hall.
And additional support fromcrits collaborations.
Thanks to dr dream chip for ouramazing theme song and you can
also check out all of theirmusic on spotify

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