How to Take Care of Your Type with Christina S. Wilcox

Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Hello and welcome to Enneagramin Real Life, the podcast where
we explore how to apply ourEnneagram knowledge in our daily
lives.
I'm your host, Stephanie BarronHall, and on today's episode, we
are once again hearing fromChristina S.
Wilcox.
You might remember Christinafrom her episode earlier this
spring, which was about herprocess discovering herself as a

(00:29):
Type six.
So she talks a little bit aboutthe different types that she
considered for a while, and evenwhen she wrote her very first
book, which is called Take Careof Your Type, she wrote about
being a three.
Um, and I think this is a reallycommon.
Path for sixes.
Um, and many of the sixes that Iknow in my life and that I've
worked with, have also struggledto really feel solid about their

(00:51):
type.
So very common thing to happen.
But Christina shared a lot abouther process with that and then
also her experience, um, beingdiagnosed with OCD and anxiety
and, her entire background withthat.
So if you are interested in thattopic and you haven't heard much
about it, go back and find theepisode, I think it's called.
Am I a six or is that my OCD?

(01:12):
Today Christina is back to talkwith us a little bit more about.
Her new book, which is calledTake Care of Your Friends, and a
little bit about just what theconcept of self-care is in
general.
So in this week's episode, weare talking about the nuanced
differences between self-careand self pampering, focusing on
how self-care often involvesstepping out of emotional,

(01:34):
relational, or physical comfortzones for personal growth.
And so Christina gave us verypractical.
Self-care tips for eachEnneagram type.
and we talked a little bit aboutthe process of writing her book.
Now please note that thispodcast episode was actually
recorded last year because I wasplanning ahead for some future

(01:56):
episodes and things got kind ofjumbled and, and I didn't end
up.
Publishing it.
So it was recorded last year, soher book is actually already
out.
So if you hear us talking about,oh, it's coming out this summer.
It's already out so you can gograb it.
And in fact, I just checked itout online and a couple of
retailers had it for$6.

(02:16):
So definitely go check it out.
I definitely think it's worth itbecause I really like her books
and her books are very giftable,so make sure to check those out.
So a little bit more aboutChristina.
Christina Wilcox is an authormental health advocate,
Enneagram expert and creative.
You may recognize her from herfirst book, take Care of Your
Type and Enneagram Guide toSelf-Care, or from her, one of
her Instagram graphics.

(02:37):
She is known for making reallycute little illustrations In her
Instagram posts, her new book iscalled Take Care of Your
Friends, and it's a guide tocaring for and supporting each
Enneagram type.
She hopes to continue to advanceher understanding of the
Enneagram while expanding herwritten work and online content
into other mental health topicsoutside of personality typing

(02:58):
systems.
She currently resides in Denver,Colorado with her husband Noah
and their puppy moose.
When she's not writing orcreating, you can find Christina
indulging in cozy video games,books across every genre and
quality time with friends andfamily.
As always, I'll share all of herlinks and where you can find her
book and everything like that inthe show notes.

(03:19):
So without further ado, here'smy conversation with Christina
S.
Wilcox.

Stephanie Barron Hall (03:23):
Well, Christina, welcome back.

Christina Wilcox (03:25):
Thank you for having me back.
I'm excited to just be back tohang and chat.

I'm so excited to have you back as well
because we have just beentalking a little bit about books
and writing and all these goodthings and your very first book
was called Take Care of YourType and you talked about how we
can each take care of ourselves.
And so I wanted to have you backon to talk about that a little
bit.

Yeah, I really love the Enneagram for this
purpose of self care that goesbeyond just like, I don't know
if I would even call it selfcare.
It's like self pampering whereyou're taking a bath or you're,
Have a face mask or you'regetting a massage or which those

(04:14):
things are taking care ofyourself.
But it's definitely more oflike, not everyone has the
ability to do those things allthe time.
Where I feel like self care, thelens I wrote it from in this
book has to do with facingthings too, that we're not
comfortable with, but isactually taking better care of
ourselves.

(04:35):
Um, that level of.
Stepping out of your emotional,relational, or physical comfort
zone, um, for the betterment ofyourself.
and it's funny writing a bookabout it.
Cause it's something as just anormal human being that I
struggle to do so much.
but yeah, I'm excited to talkabout it and it's always, a

(04:56):
concept I enjoy unpacking withpeople.

Yeah.
So what inspired you to writeabout this topic in particular?

Yeah, I.
It definitely was acollaborative effort with, the
publisher that I worked with atthe time they wanted to write a
self care Enneagram book orsomething along those lines,
they just thought like, takecare of your type sounded really
good and they were looking forsomeone to author this idea.

(05:30):
And when I was discussing itwith them, I really.
Wanted to kind of lean into thatmore unique perspective of what
self care is and was.
And as we were in conversation,I just, it became this dual
project where I felt like I waswriting from actual research

(05:52):
that I had unintentionally doneon my platform, just interacting
with people all the time andhearing.
How they don't take care ofthemselves or hearing what they
struggle with in terms of selfcare or what they wish other
people understood about themwhen people would give them self
care advice and like why it'sdifficult for them.

(06:14):
And so that really sparked a lotof inspiration for the narrative
of the book, as well as being inrelationships myself and
friendships and familialrelationships.
There's a lot of stuff too thatwas from my own experience with
each number, um, and my ownexperiences in general, um,

(06:36):
writing from the perspective ofmy number.
but yeah, it was a mix of beinginspired by the twos and sevens
or sixes, whoever that I'dinteracted with in my life, no
matter how close I was with themand almost like saying things
that I wish I would have you.
Had the courage to say, um, orjust patterns I noticed in their

(07:00):
behavior as it was like livingout in front of me.
Um, but then also justinteracting with people.
So I guess short answer would bejust interacting with people and
seeing how complicated andDifficult self care actually is,

(07:20):
for every single number.

Yeah.
I mean, I think that that is agood distinction that you made
earlier about self pamperingversus self care, um, and how
taking care of ourselves can bereally challenging and it can be
really stretching.
And a lot of the stuff that weneed to do is kind of
uncomfortable.
Um, and we don't.
Like to do uncomfortable things,like most people don't enjoy

(07:44):
that.
Um, and so I'm curious if youhave any things right now that
are kind of saving your life interms of self-care?

Oh gosh.
That's a great question.
one would be forcing myself toget outside every day.
just with the sun being back, Iam someone who quite literally
is a leaf.
And when the sun hits me, I am anew person.
And I know that about myself,but because I work from home

(08:15):
and, um, I can get very hyperfocused or distracted or
whatever, sometimes it's like,wait a second, I need to
actually go outside, um, andleave my house and walk my dog.
And so whether it is a walk withmy dog or just, um, we have this
tree in our front yard and I'vebeen setting out, um, our little

(08:36):
picnic blanket and like, takinga adult coloring book or my book
to read or bullet journaling orsomething on the picnic blanket
under the tree.
And doing that literally forjust an hour changes the entire
scope of my day.
And, um, I just right now on theweekends, especially make the

(08:58):
priority to just do that formyself.
but besides that, I think,bullet journaling is also one.
that has been a huge help forme.
I really fell out of my habit ofjust like planning things and
reminding myself of when thingsare happening.

(09:19):
Our life has been pretty chaoticthe past year.
So it's just been hard to keepup with everything.
And I found myself actually justforcing myself to carve out time
to do it so that I could.
Like have more space in my brainand not be scattered all the
time.
And I don't do it perfectly, butit definitely isn't easy and

(09:42):
it's not, um, comfortable for meall the time to do it.
But, yeah, lastly, I actuallyjust remembered this, something
I've been.
Telling myself a lot recentlyabout things that I don't want
to do for myself that wouldhelp, whether it's like hygiene
related, chore related.

(10:03):
mundane task related friendship.
It doesn't matter what it is,but I've been telling myself to
become better friends with myfuture self, because that means
I'll look out for her a lot moreoften right now than I would if

(10:24):
we weren't great friends.
So sometimes when I'm likeliterally the last thing I want
to do is this task, I take amoment to think of myself
tomorrow, Or the next day or thenext day.
And I'm like, she wouldappreciate if I did this right
now.
Um, and that's been a fun littlemind trick for me in terms of

(10:44):
bullet journaling or sittingoutside.
That's more of the psychologicalself care trick I've been doing
for myself and it has been alifesaver.
Yeah.

mean, I've read so many interesting
little tidbits about that indifferent books, um, about how
helpful it can be to think aboutthings that way.
I wanna do that more.
I need to like write myself anote to do that because I
forget, you know, but it ishelpful,

It is helpful.
And in the moment it like.
I mean, sometimes it's not funstill.
I still get annoyed at myselffor even saying that to myself.
Um, but then other times itactually makes the task less
daunting or annoying.
Cause it's like, Oh yeah, I gotto look out for her.
And that's, this is somethingsimple I can do for her right

(11:31):
now.
And it's like, it almost takesthe annoyance or not all of the
discomfort sometimes, but itmakes it worth it almost.
It's like.
It gives it an intention and apurpose just beyond like
checking it off a list.
Mm-hmm

Yeah.
Yeah.
I could appreciate that forsure.
Um, I'm curious.
I mean, I want to dive into all,all nine types, but before we
get there, I think we talkedlast time a little bit about
your typing journey overall,

Yeah.

and I'm curious if you look at any of
these now, especially for thetype that you thought you were
when you wrote this book.
And the type that you know youare now, if you're like, hmm I
would, I would actually writethat differently now.

Oh yeah.
Oh my gosh.
The second I recorded the audiobook stuff, I was like, I wish I
had read this differently.
Um,

course.
Yeah.

which just to any aspiring writers out there,
don't wait to read things outloud.
Just read things out loud assoon as you feel comfortable
with it, because it helps toknow if what you're saying makes
sense.
Um, I was so new to everythingthat I just didn't do that.
But anyway, um, it isinteresting.

(12:48):
There's some aspects of, I thinkit might even be in the three
chapter, cause that's where,that's the number I thought I
was at the time.
Okay.
Um, but there was something Iwas like a situation that I was
in that I wrote about in thisbook that I realized was a lot
more OCD related than like, Ijust, when I was reading it

(13:14):
after, I was like, this actuallyis more of an OCD behavior that
I thought was a personalitytrait of mine, but it, in fact,
And it's still like, when I readit, it still applies.
And I think where I got to withit worked, but I definitely
would do that differently.
But even the six chapters, it'sinteresting.

(13:34):
I feel like I've said thisbefore, but when I read through
the six chapters, it's like, Iwas writing this to myself
without even knowing it.
Which that's crazy.
Cause I'm even looking at thetitles.
It's like every single one.
I was writing it to myselffully, but just had no clue.

(13:57):
No clue.
But it's, it's more emotional, Ithink, now to read through the
sixth chapter and be like, oh, Ishould probably apply some of
this even to my own life.
Mm-hmm

Yeah.
Well, isn't that how it alwaysworks though too?
Because there is like thislevel.
I don't know if you felt thisway, but like, like imposter
syndrome, like when I

Oh my gosh.
Yeah.

writing my book and getting so burned
out and being like, what am Idoing?
How can I be telling people to,to, you know, use the Enneagram
in real life?
And like, here I am getting soburned out.
And like, that can be really,that can really trip you up.
And also I would love to seesomebody who can write a book
and not get burned out at somepoint.

(14:47):
I

Oh, I, I mean, I guess the only person I that
immediately came to my head wasBrandon Sanderson, just because
I've seen interviews of him andhe's just like a machine.
Truly.

think though that fiction is so much
easier,

Yeah.
I, I don't know if it's easier.
I think it's just becausespecifically with what we're
writing about, it's so, you wantto write it in a unique way, but
you have to stay true to thesystem.
You're in a really confined boxwhere I think, like you said,
fiction, you have the wholeworld almost, even if you're

(15:25):
writing about an era or acharacter, it can evolve,

Yeah, I definitely would.
I mean, it's not easier.
I shouldn't say that, but like,I probably think that a little
bit because that is my like,release valve.
Like when I am stuck in myactual books that I'm writing
and turning into my publisher, Ijust write fiction

yeah, uh huh.

you know, and it helps, it really helps.
And so I could imagine, but Imean, to be as prolific as he
is, you have to love it.
Um,

Yeah, it's crazy.
I was watching a video of hiswriting routine and I just was
like, oh my god, I can't watchthis.
It's too much for me.
I'm not Brandon Sanderson,unfortunately.
Unfortunately, I am not BrandonSanderson.
He like writes from him.
2 a.
m.
to 6 a.

(16:19):
m.
It's crazy, but he's alsoBrandon Sanderson and can make
his own schedule.
So

Yeah, yeah.

he can do what works for him.

So there's that.
Right.
Um, well, I'm curious if, youknow, this, I think this is like
kind of a good way to jump intothe next part, which is I'd love
to just run through each of thetypes.
And if you can give us apractical thing, each type can
do to incorporate self care inthe way that you understand it.

hmm.
Yeah.
I kind of went through the bookand I found like a more, like an
actual physical tip each typecan do.
And then also just like a quicklittle more emo tip, um, of like
self care for your emotions thatmight be hard, but necessary.
Um, and starting, I guess, withtype one, one thing that I, when

(17:13):
I was writing this book, Ireally felt is so difficult for
type ones is this idea of,Taking themselves out of the
running.
Whenever I interact with ones,it feels like they have put
themselves in the running, notjust of perfection, but of so
many different things that theyneed to be perfect at, or have a

(17:36):
standard of like my, I have somefriends that like, they're very
concerned about being a goodemployee and a good spouse and
which we all are, but there'sthis.
They're carrying the weight ofthe world as they are in the
running for these things andthey, it's like the
responsibility of it all isthey're single handedly putting

(18:02):
it on their shoulders.
And in the book, that'ssomething that I talk about as
more of a emotional care tip iswhat would it look like to take
yourself out of the running forthese standards or goals, or
even just the concept ofgoodness and perfection itself?

(18:24):
Um, what really would happen,um, if you were to take a break
from the marathon and sit withJust sit with that.
And I think that's not to saythat you shouldn't be in the
running for anything.
I think that we all needsomething to drive us and to

(18:45):
work towards, but it's just thisidea of, even if it's taking
yourself out of the running torelease the pressure of the
entire world and feelingresponsible for like the
goodness of yourself and thepeople you're around.
I think that that's a reallygood emotional exercise for ones

(19:07):
as well as, a more practical tipthat I always love to suggest to
ones is, celebrate somethingreally small, celebrate nothing
at all, like throw a party foryourself and your spouse or your
partner or a friend and justcelebrate for literally no

(19:28):
reason, and just not just seewhat comes up for yourself, but
I just think it's such a, a fun.
And when I say party, I don'tmean go on Pinterest and make a
board and make this elaboratething to where all of a sudden
you're in your own head aboutit.
It has to be the perfectcelebration for nothing party.

(19:49):
I just mean like getting a treatand celebrating a really small
win that you're proud of, orjust celebrating the fact that
you had a great day.
Another day and just introducingthat, um, concept of more, less
criticism and more celebration.

like spiraling in my mind, like,
what's a small thing tocelebrate?
Like, is that, is that enough?

I know.
It's like, there's no, andthat's the hard part ones.
There is no right answer.
Unfortunately, it is a verynuanced, a nuanced thing,

yeah, I love that.

guys.
Um, for twos, my two little tipsare first starting more with a
physical one.
I think it's really importantfor twos to obviously being
safe, but being in nature alone.

(20:53):
I think taking, which soundsnightmarish perhaps, which is
kind of the point.
Um, I think it's reallyimportant for twos to connect to
things outside of theirrelationships, whether it's
themself or nature in general,or whatever you believe in, just

(21:14):
taking space to connect tosomething that isn't.
in the orbit of therelationships you're caring for.
I think the quietness of coursewill bring up some emotions for
twos, but I think that'simportant for so many twos
struggle with distinguishingtheir emotions from the emotions

(21:38):
they're carrying for others.
And I think spending time innature, getting quiet allows you
to discern how you actually feeland not just how you feel like
you should feel or, maybe eventhinking through a little bit
how you're feeling and not justbeing fully in that heart space.

(22:00):
But in a more sentimental emodirection, I think it would be
very sweet.
Because at least for everyonethat I've known, everyone has
received a love letter from atwo, whether you're friends with
a two, your partner is a two,your parent is a two.
I just feel like every two I'veever known has given me a card

(22:22):
or a letter that I cherish alot.
And my challenge for twos is towrite a love letter to yourself,
even if it sounds corny.
Even if you put it in the mailto deliver to yourself, even
whatever, I don't know how cornyyou want to make it, but
whatever you need to do, orjust, I just envision them

(22:44):
sitting somewhere that they loveto sit at their favorite coffee
shop or wherever, and justactually writing, taking the
time to think about putting thatenergy you put towards others,
towards yourself.
yeah, I know you're gonna makeyourself cry with that one too,
uh, and you should, you should,like, I, I don't know, just

(23:07):
every card I've received from atwo has been so special and I
would love for them to receivethat in the, in their own
language that they really likecan cherish it.

yeah, well, and I think, Twos can be a
lot more self critical than wenormally think about or

Oh yeah.
Mm hmm.

and so I think that that can be helpful,
too, because just recognizing,wow, I am being really hard on
myself, and, kind of settingthat aside and, and really
sitting down and, like, beingkind to themselves is

Yeah.
Yeah.
100%.
Um, for threes, my two self caretips would be one enforcing a
digital sunset and sunrise.
Very practical.
And what I mean by that issetting a timeline limit to

(23:59):
like, say 8 AM is your digitalsunrise.
You can turn on your devices andbe on your phone, be working,
whatever you need to do.
Obviously I'm saying thisknowing the complexities of life
and not all of these tips aregoing to be applicable or
available to everyone's season.

(24:20):
But if you can, enforcing thatsunrise and sunset, turning off
your device at 8pm, like 8 to 8or 7 to 7, whatever it needs to
be, 7 to 9, you know, startingoff small at first, but I think
for threes.
I can't even imagine a threeworking from home, how difficult

(24:40):
it can be to set thoseboundaries with yourself.
Um, not just in a workaholicsense, but in a, threes are also
managing so much.
They have so many moving partsto their lives typically.
And I think giving your brainthe space and your heart the

(25:01):
space to.
Be thinking about checking inwith yourself, your body, how
you're feeling actually, andgiving yourself some limits to,
how hard you're working.
Regardless of what you'reworking at or caring for.
I think that's a really, I'veseen a lot of threes enforce

(25:26):
that type of practice in theirlives, and it's something that
they're very grateful for.
Um, even if it's hard.
and with that, I also want tochallenge, I love what you said
about how, when you're writingyour books, you take a break to
write fiction for fun, andthat's, that literally is

(25:46):
basically the tip I had is findthings that are for fun only,
truly only for fun.
No other thing.
No, it's not even to succeed orfail.
It's not that black and white.
It is truly just.
For fun, something that youenjoy that you can put your time
into where your performanceisn't the end goal or purpose of

(26:14):
what you're doing.

Yeah, yeah.
I think that's so important,and, and And it can be difficult
because,

Oh yeah.

like recently I had a friend be like,
Oh, are you musical?
And I was like, Oh no.
Like, they're like, Oh, Ithought you play guitar.
I was like, Oh yeah, but no onewould ever pay me to play.
Like,

Oh my gosh.

ever want.
And they're like, that's not thebar.
You know, cause I'm really, Ijust do it for

Yeah.

and I never want anyone to actually
hear me.

Yeah.
Yeah.

Um, and actually I think that's like a,
maybe, maybe a good, and it's alittle bit embarrassing to even
say it on the podcast,

No, don't be, I will, you know, I think it's a
hard thing for threes to admit.
And I did this.
Real a really long time ago, butwhenever it comes up, it still
makes me laugh of like, it wasthis sound that's like, let's
see what's behind this door.
And then like, it gets slamsshut immediately.

(27:13):
And I put threes having to dosomething new for the first time
in front of people in general,like that they don't know or
like whatever.
And it's just, it really is.
It's so hard with the, all theheart triad, the self
consciousness.
I think it's so real.
But yeah, I love 2024 year ofthrees doing things for fun.

Yeah.
I love it.
Um, and I think.
An important thing too, like anaddendum to your, your first
point is I think it's reallyimportant for threes to also
recognize how much they thinkabout work.
They might say, Oh, I'm notworking, but you're working in
your brain.

Yeah.

Like, even if you're not quote
unquote, being productive bylike having some sort of output,
you're still thinking about itconstantly.
And that can really weigh on youas well.

that's so true.
That is so true.
We love you, Therese.
Truly.
I, that's my stress number, andso I also struggle with these
things when I get very stressed.
for fours, this one, this firstone's actually so practical, but

(28:29):
every time I bring it up withfours, they are like, ugh.
And that's the response I wantfrom you, so that's good.
But, um, y'all need to startgetting healthy sleep.
Whatever that sleep is lookinglike, whether you only need 6
hours or 7 hours, it doesn'thave to be 8 or 9, but y'all

(28:51):
need to go to sleep.
Every 4 I know has the mostmessed up sleep schedule.
It doesn't matter who they areor what stage they are in their
life.
It is I just think some of y'allwould really feel better getting
an optimal amount of sleep, ifit is possible this season,

(29:12):
because whether it's fours thatI know where in different
situations, it's like they'refeeling so much that they have
like numbed out with music or ashow, or And then they wake up
on the couch at like 3 a.
m.
or whatever it is, or just likebeing so into the weather.

(29:37):
And I think four is toosimilarly to threes, whether it
doesn't necessarily have to be acreative field, but fours are
also constantly thinking abouttheir feelings.
And that also can keep them upat night.
And so I don't know exactly whatyou specifically, if you're a

(29:58):
four listening to this, need todo to get optimal sleep.
But I can, as someone who didn'trealize how poorly they were
sleeping, and then once Iattempted to fix that, it really
changed my life.
I think specifically with fours,they would be surprised at how
much, and it could even beoversleeping, whatever it is

(30:20):
that you're struggling with, Ithink.
Working to have a healthy sleepschedule is really important for
fours.
and with that too, similarly toones celebrating, as opposed to
criticism, fours also reallystruggle with the, as we know,

(30:41):
their core fear of lackingsomething essential that
everyone else has or has figuredout, and, um, I want to
encourage fours to really startpracticing gratitude as opposed
to comparison.
I think that is something that'svery difficult for fours to do.

(31:04):
Um, which sometimes when I talkto fours about that, they're
like, I'm very grateful andappreciative.
And I think fours are wonderfulat being in awe and leaning into
wonder and beauty whereGratitude is very gritty and
uncomfortable sometimes and it'snot, it's choosing to change up

(31:28):
that thought pattern as I'mlacking from this person or I'm
less than this person orwhatever it is and finding
gratitude for yourself and evenfor the other person of like,
wow, they're really doing a goodjob because That doesn't
threaten who you are.
It's just like that mindset ofabundance versus scarcity.

(31:50):
And, yeah, I think thatincorporating gratitude in
junction, in conjunction withyour awe and wonder for life, I
think is really important.

Yeah.
That's such a good point aboutgratitude being kind of gritty
because I think that can bechallenging for fours.
Like they think, Oh, I should bebetter at this.
Like if I was truly grateful, Iwould be better at this.
And it's like definitely a skillthat you have to learn for sure.
Um, but also I think thescarcity point is a good one

(32:25):
too, because I think sometimesEven if fours are such like
incredible outside the boxthinkers, but sometimes I do
think that fours believe there'sonly a finite amount of like
emotion that can go around.
Um, and I think that's wherethat comparison comes in.

(32:45):
And so there's like a finiteamount of positivity that can go
around as well.
And that can be really tough.

Yeah, definitely.
That's a great point.
five, hello fives, we love you,um, I love you, you are my wing,
something for fives, two things,one is, these are gonna sound so

(33:12):
basic, but it's, They're basicfor a reason and they're really
hard for a reason.
But I know that there is a fiveout there who has everything
they need to take their firstaction step in whatever projects
they're working on in whateverthing that they're trying to

(33:32):
accomplish.
Let me be the voice to say, youhave enough, you have enough,
and it is time Do the firststep.
I can guarantee you already havethe steps lined out that you
need the order.
You need to do it in maybe, butif not, like it's, cause I

(33:53):
struggle with this with my wingfive, sometimes the act of
planning it is like, it feelslike I'm doing it sometimes and
then I research, yes, it feelslike action, but that
researching and that planningisn't actually taking a step
forward.
And, I just want to encourageFives that you have everything

(34:14):
you need.
It is going to be, I think forFives, something that even with
this new book, as I wasresearching things and leaning
into my own five way andunderstanding it, I think, I
don't think people understandhow difficult it is for Fives to
feel uncomfortable.
it is one of the worst feelingsin the world, feeling

(34:38):
uncomfortable and not Knowing,not having a head thought
solution to theuncomfortability, not being able
to figure it out almost, isreally difficult.
but I have found the times in mylife when I've gotten out of my

(35:00):
head into my body, taken thatfirst action step.
It feels, even if it's likepulling teeth, it, I've never
feel more alive than when Iactually take that action step.
And once you get going, you getgoing.
And similarly to that, it'slike, once that ball is rolling,
you can, you can keep going.

(35:22):
Um, which that kind of leansinto the other tip is, um, in
whatever way you need to goabout it.
If it's little by little, Butmaking yourself available.
And I don't mean that in a waythat I think all fives are like

(35:46):
isolated hobbits in cabins thatdon't interact with people.
I think fives, um, are reallywonderful friends and partners
and more community oriented thanpeople realize.
But what I mean by available is.

(36:07):
Making your emotions available,your time available, your energy
available, even if it's just alittle more than you usually
would, because it really isn'tabout the other person.
Um, it's about fearing that theywill be, cause I experienced
this, the fear of literally notbeing able to handle the rest of

(36:30):
the day or the rest of theseconversations.
And it's like measuring out yourenergy constantly.
And I think there is this levelof being able to trust yourself
that you do have what you needto be available.
Um,

Yeah.

yeah.

Yeah.
And I think, um, also somethingfor fives that can be
challenging.
I've noticed is having adifficult time navigating those
boundaries in real time.
It feels much

Mm hmm.

just say no, then to be able to again,
trust yourself to be able tolike, work through that

Yeah.

time comes.
Um, with.
What you were saying about beinguncomfortable, I'm wondering, is
there like a physicalmanifestation of that, or like,

Yeah, I,

mean?
Ha

I, another tip I actually had for fives in the
book was about having a danceparty, which is very corny, I
realize.
How old was I when I wrote thisbook?
22.
So a 22 year old wrote thisbook, which is crazy.
Um,

yeah, it actually is.

she, she had her, she had her nuggets of
wisdom.
and I actually got a lot ofmessages from fives after they
read that.
And they were like, I've neverhad anyone tell me that before,
but it's just the idea of.
I think fives feeluncomfortable, don't like

(38:03):
feeling uncomfortable in theirbody.
They don't like feelinguncomfortable in their house.
They don't like feelinguncomfortable and it's like,
well, yeah, no one does, but Ican't express like the physical
way it even feels to be doingsomething physical in the way

(38:24):
uncomfortability like makes mefeel.
And one of my good friends isalso a five and it's.
It's hard, but the times whereshe, and it doesn't have to be a
dance party for her, she loveshiking or whatever, but it's
just this act of getting in yourbody and feeling uncomfortable

(38:45):
and being able to show yourselfyou can survive the
uncomfortability, that thatcomfortability doesn't go away,
it will return.
I don't know if that makessense, but that's what comes to
mind.

I guess like, where I'm curious is like,
is it a cognitive experiencethat manifests physically?
Like, I don't know what to dohere, I don't know who to talk
to here, like, or

Yeah.
I think, I think it's a mix ofboth.
Um, but I definitely think thehead portion of feeling
uncomfortable is, does manifestphysically, at least in my
experience in the fives that Iknow.

(39:31):
It's almost just like the samething.
It's like with a project.
We will.
Might have all the steps,everything we need laid out,
even for a social situation,knowing that I probably can do
this, but it's this, it's the, Ithink fives are a lot more
fearful.
Um, and sevens, I think all ofthe, obviously all of the head

(39:54):
types struggle with fear, but Ithink we just leaned into fear
so much with six.
Um, that we forget the fives andsevens are terrified.

Yeah,

And I think that's more of how for fives,
the fear manifests.
It's more just even the fear ofnot knowing what to do.
The, the fear of thatuncomfortability in situations,
how it gets caught in theirhead.
Um, I do think it manifestsphysically and can.

(40:26):
Yeah, it's hard.
Like I said, for the fives,taking action and being
available is hard.
It's very hard, but it's justlike anything, you build up
resilience with practice.

Stephanie Barron Ha (40:41):
absolutely.
And you learn to trust yourself.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Okay, what about six?

Yeah, speaking of trusting yourself, Hey guys!
Um, My first tip for six issomething that I feel like if
you go back and watch, even Iwas thinking about this when I
wrote this in my phone, if youeven watch our conversations, I
feel like people might even pickup on this first one with me and

(41:08):
things that I do.
Um, please don't tell me thatyou know this.
I am aware that this issomething I struggle with, but
one of my favorite tips I gavefor six, which is very much
directed at me as well islaughing really hard but not at

(41:29):
yourself.
Sixes are some of the most selfdeprecating people that you will
ever meet and they can have youcracking up but most likely
sometimes it is over themselvesor their own irrationality or
their own just like, it reallyis a defense mechanism.

(41:53):
And I want to encourage sixesthat you don't have to be the
butt of a joke, um, for thingsto be funny.
I think, I don't know why this,I've noticed this so much with
sixes, not just for me, but mymom is a six.
There's so many people in mylife and it is just a common

(42:15):
thread.
And maybe because I'm wrapped upin it, I don't have as much like
a 30, 000 foot view of exactlywhere it comes from, but it is
this, I think it still isrelated to the idea of trusting
yourself and building thatfriendship with yourself, um,

(42:36):
respecting yourself and seeingyourself as someone who, yeah, I
don't know.
It's interesting.
It's like.
It's almost like sixes don'twant to be blindsided by
anything, that they like, stepforward in front of someone to
be like, I already know thisthough, so you don't need to
tell me about it.
And it is pain avoidance.

(42:58):
It is still again, and somethingthat probably would be more
associated with the seven, but Inotice it so much in myself
where it's like, fear is so wellacquainted with pain and I don't
want to experience either ofthose things.
So I will make fun of myself soI don't have to feel the pain of
you doing it to me, if that'swhat you're going to do.

(43:21):
Um, and so I want to encouragesexes to.
Laugh less at yourself.
You don't have to, if someoneteases you, or if you don't get
ahead of a joke, what, uh, youknow, like you similarly to
fives, like you can handle it.
You can handle it.
You can trust yourself.
You can feel that security stillwithin yourself.

(43:45):
Um, and similarly as well, Ithink it's very important for
sixes to get in their body.
Um, in my experience of being asix, sometimes whenever I do
force myself to do somethingthat is very physically hard or

(44:08):
even just having a normalexercise regimen of any kind, it
helps me become more connectedto my real emotions and not my
intellectualized emotions.
And I think sixes need theirbody to help them get to their,

(44:29):
what's going on in their heart,at least from what I've seen and
in my own experience.
It's like, even the other day Ifelt so, this has never happened
to me before, but I literallywas doing this yoga video and we
did this pose and I literallystarted crying.

Mm

Because I, my brain had stopped long enough
for my body to be like, Hey,this is what you're feeling.

hmm.
Mm hmm.

Remember?
Like, I think six is just reallyare afraid of, I think they are
just as afraid of emotions assevens, even if they come across
as more emotional or sensitive,but the actual fear of.

(45:20):
There's just so much unknown inemotion that it can keep us from
that alone keeps me from lettingmyself experience it.
So I think sometimes exercise orsome sort of physical activity
where you're taking a break fromyour brain allows you to connect
with that.

Yeah, yeah.
I've seen that be really helpfulfor sixes.
I also, on the self deprecatinghumor thing, I've also always
wondered, and you can tell me ifthis resonates at all, um, if
it's like, Hey, haha, I know I'mdoing the everything is so scary
thing again, but I feel like Ihave to say this, so I'm just

(46:01):
going to say it with a jokebecause like, it needs to be
said.
Like, I know I'm doing thething, but you know,

Yeah.
I think it's this Sixes reallywant to be taken seriously with
their concerns.
And I think sometimes I'mdefinitely guilty of it.
A passive roundabout way ofdoing that is to make it a joke
so that people hear it.
Because sometimes if you arecommunicating something that is,

(46:32):
you think is important orconcerning, Um, it isn't always
taken seriously.
So I think, yeah, I think thatdefinitely is real of being
like, maybe if this is a joke,you're at least gonna, but
that's not like a consciousthing I'm thinking about as it's
happening, but I definitely,yeah, I think that's real for
sixes with sevens.

(46:56):
I want to encourage you guys to,and I'm going to keep saying it,
some of these I've said multipletimes because every time
specifically with sevens, theyget very mad at me for
suggesting it.
And it's just because y'all needto trust, trust that this is a
good thing.

(47:17):
Um, but sevens do need thatpractice of getting quiet in
some capacity every day.
Where they are unbothered, thereis no distraction, whether
that's, if you pray, a type ofprayer ritual in the morning, or

(47:37):
meditative ritual, or justsitting, even if it's only for
two minutes in the morning,making space to be quiet.
I can promise you that a lot ofthe pushback with this from
sevens that I hear is that, Somuch comes up.

(47:58):
It's just too much.
I can't handle it.
And it is a lot because there'sa lot that you have suppressed.
So it's coming up like acrashing tidal wave where the
more you get quiet and the moreyou practice being in tune, that

(48:22):
wave will become smaller andsmaller and smaller.
And I also want to remind youthat you, you won't die.
I think that's a real thingthough, with the set, one of my
closest friends, she's a sevenand it's a, it feels like you're
dying sometimes.

(48:42):
And I just want to say that youcan handle it.
You won't die.
It will be hard, but you won'tdie.
And in that vein, something thatnow having more.
A closer relationship with aseven.
Um, I have a really close friendwho is a seven.
It is so apparent how much theirbehavior truly is motivated by

(49:09):
that desire to be taken care of.
Not just fulfilled, not just tobe free, but taken care of.
And, it's ironic because so manysevens also don't ask for help
always.
Really never.
Um, And so, anytime my friendasks for help, I always make

(49:36):
note of how, well one, as herfriend, which I guess this is
just another fun little tip,but, I try and step in and help
without her even askingsometimes.
And in, at the end, she's like,I'm, I'm really grateful that
you came here because I did needhelp.

(49:57):
I just didn't know what to do orhow to ask for that because I
feel like I should be able tohandle this by myself and.
I think that for sevensaccepting help, learning how to
ask for help, or even just ask,like learning how to voice when
you're not okay with trustedpeople, um, is really valuable

(50:21):
for sevens, um, which is a very,yeah, I've just seen so many
sevens be transformed by peopleknowing them deeply, even if
it's hard.
Mm

Yeah.

hmm.
With eights, um, something thatI believe eights, when they can
become very flexible, they arevery empowered people, even more
than they already are.
But it's like when an eight isflexible, it just feels like, I

(50:59):
don't know how to describe it.
It's just one of the mostbeautiful, like, character
growth.
Tracks I've witnessed in AIDSand that's the, one of the self
care tips I have for them isgetting flexible and whatever
way you need to practiceflexibility, whether that's in a
big way or small way, allowingsomeone else to take the lead.

(51:23):
or even if it is something like,I know it's really also love
their physical activity.
It's very helpful for them.
using physical activity as a wayto slow it down, whether that's
incorporating yoga or Pilates ormore low impact exercise to

(51:46):
become more.
I think that would be a greatfirst step to yeah.
Building resilience to allowsomeone else to step up or be
strong where you feel like youneed to fill that role.
and then with that.
being intentionallyunproductive, and similarly to

(52:06):
sevens, carving out that timefor quiet.
I know eights also do not enjoythat, and specifically if it
feels like, but what, what isthe, I'm not doing anything.
I think eights just have so muchgoing on in their body.

(52:27):
As opposed to some of the othertypes that we've talked about.
literally, even if you need toschedule a time where you are
intentionally unproductive, Ithink AIDS have such a beautiful
capacity for rest.
Um, AIDS that I know that can berestful, I'm telling y'all,

(52:49):
like, you guys can take a goodnap.
Like, I've seen some AIDS rock anap.
So whatever you need to do, Ithink Y'all need, not to sound
corny again, but go in your bearcave, go in your bear cave, take
a big bear nap.
Truly, whatever you need to doto make that happen.

(53:11):
I just see eights.
It's just rest.
We all need rest and there's noway to get around it.
Even if you aren't eight, youjust have to make that time to
do that.
Yay.

I think, um, the eights in my life that
I'm around the most are reallygood at this.
And I think that it really doeshelp them.
And so, um, it's hard for me toremember sometimes that, like,
not every eight is like

Mm hmm.
Yeah, for sure.
That's awesome though.
I know it's the, especially inmy childhood, a lot of my close
friends were AIDs and wheneverthey did, as they got older or
understood these types of thingsabout themselves, it was like
seeing them incorporate it.
It's just a well rested AID issuch a beautiful thing to

(54:06):
witness.
Lastly, we have our sweet nines.
the first tip I have for you ispracticing voicing your
preferences.
And if the first step you needto take in order to do that is
journaling, what are mypreferences?

(54:27):
Even if you just write thatquestion in a journal or your
notes app, and you slowly makeyour way.
As you notice things, maybe evenjust notice what your
preferences are for the purposeof one day voicing them.
But whatever you need to do toget there, I think is so

(54:47):
important because it, one, isteaching you that your
preferences matter and that youhave them too.
I think nines sometimes are soasleep to their preferences.
It's like, but I just don't haveany really.
I don't.
And I promise that you do if youlisten.
And I think too, there's thisfear of my preferences will lead

(55:10):
to disconnection.
And so if there is a trustedperson in your life, as you're
going through this journey thatyou can share slowly with, um, I
think you'll see how muchcapacity other people have for
your preferences and may even.
may even really want to hearyour preferences and feel closer

(55:34):
to you because you voiced yourpreferences.
And lastly, I believe every ninetruly does need do not disturb
time.
I think it's very important forthem.
However, I do believe nines haveto learn how to limit that do

(55:54):
not disturb time.
It still needs to happen.
But there has to be an awarenessof how long you're in do not
disturb mode.
similarly, I think to fives, thetheme of making yourself
available.
I think with nines, they makethemselves very available, but

(56:16):
they're not present.
So it's like they're there, butthey're not there.
It's, it really is kind of likehaving your phone and do not
disturb mode where it's like,yeah, I'm here.
But you're not going to, ninesare so stubborn.
They're so stubborn.
So

Sounds like you know from experience.

yes, I do know from experience, I know how
stubborn nines are.
but again, it's not.
You guys need your rest, and Iknow that.
I know from real experience,both fives and nines really need
that recharge time, so youdefinitely need to carve out

(56:58):
time for being on Do NotDisturb, but just start to
create limits for that time,because at some point, being in
that mode no longer serves youor the people in your life.
And it's hard to accept that.
And it's hard to feel that.
I'm so aware of it for nines,how much feeling like any type

(57:26):
of disruption or inconvenienceis because of them.
That alone could put them in ado not disturb mode.
So I think it's just a challengeof almost.
Giving yourself rest, butletting yourself be disturbed,
for lack of a better word,sometimes.

So you're kind of saying, like, choose to
be in that mode sometimes, butdon't passively drift there

Yeah, don't live there.
Um, I think sometimes we allkind of enter that do not
disturb mode and need it tosurvive.
Like, we have that ability for areason.
But I think with both four ninesas well, it's like, Physically
and practically, I thinksometimes they can.

(58:13):
As much as they're available,they also can really retreat and
just knowing, being aware ofthat cycle of, am I, how much am
I really retreating?
How much am I really resting?
I think that that's important,but yeah, I think nine's the

(58:34):
reality that again, that theycould.
play a part in any type ofconflict or chaos or disruption
is so horrific genuinely to themthat they do passively just slip
into that do not disturb modebecause that's how they're
managing.

(58:55):
so yeah, it's a, it's self carethat is a challenge, but once
you learn how to stay activatedduring that time, The, I think
the chaos in the conflict orwhatever's going on will
actually lessen more than if youstay in, do not disturb mode for

(59:17):
extended amounts of time.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I think something Ijust wanna specify too about
nines being stubborn is that Ithink it's important to
appreciate also that like, Ilike, I like that nines can be
stubborn.
Of course it's annoying whenyou're like, you have somebody
in your life that you're tryingto communicate with and they're
being stubborn about stuff, butlike, I actually appreciate it

(59:41):
because.
It's a time when you get to seewhat they really think about
something and how they reallyfeel about something.
Maybe they're not communicatingit, you know, but they're like,
maybe that it's not alwaysverbally being stubborn.
Um, but I really appreciate whennines share how they feel and,
and are really clear on that.

(01:00:01):
Um, because I know that it takesa lot.
and I know that, It's not alwaysa choice to be stubborn, um, but
there's something in them that'slike, this doesn't feel aligned
and I just can't do it.
Um, and so I appreciate that.

Christina Wilcox (01:00:14):
of course.
I think that that's such a good.
Friendship tip, even with nine.
So you're in a relationship isbe curious about their
stubbornness of like, with thefirst part of voicing their
preferences, what can assomeone, if you're in a
friendship or relationship witha nine in any capacity, what can
you learn about them throughwhat they're stubborn about?

(01:00:37):
Cause that is so true.
You do get a glimpse into how anine is really feeling.
That's really great.

Stephanie Barron Hall (01:00:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
great.
This has been so.

was a marathon.

It was, I mean, I think that sometimes I
kick myself cause I'm like, whydid I choose to teach this thing
that has nine

I know.

separate times?
But I think it's, it's so usefulbecause there's something in
there for everyone.
And even as we're listening, I'mlike, Oh yeah, this person in my
life, I can help support them inthat way.
Um, and when I'm teachingpeople, I always like to remind
them, like highlight thepositives of other types and

(01:01:16):
look at the positives of Versuslike looking at all of their
negatives, especially incorporate.
I teach mostly in corporate and,um, I don't want people to feel
like they need to be on guard atwork.
I think that's a prettyuncomfortable place for people.
Um, but I think that looking atour own shortcomings is, is so
useful.
And so being able to speak tothose in these really practical

(01:01:37):
ways is helpful.

Yeah, definitely.
That's so true.

So where can people find you and your
work?
Uh, I want to link everythingup, but you have a lot of
exciting projects coming up andI really want to share those.

I do.
Thank you.
Yeah.
You can find me primarily onInstagram at Christina S Wilcox.
Um, I also have a podcast thatI'm re launching very soon.
probably June or July calledgenuinely care about you.
and I'm really excited for that.

(01:02:11):
Cause there's going to be a funlittle series I do on there that
I'm very excited about.
in terms of friendship, which isalso what my next book is about.
it comes out July 30th onNational Friendships Day, which
is so cute.

(01:02:31):
We were talking about thatbefore we went live.
Um, I thought, I just think it'sso cute, but yeah, my second
book is kind of a.
Sort of a sequel ish to my firstone.
It's called take care of yourfriends.
and it's just a using theEnneagram as a guide for your
relationships and friendshipsspecifically.
And the chapters go in detailabout how to be a better friend

(01:02:59):
as your type, but also howothers can be a better friend to
you based on your type.
And, yeah, I'm so excited forit.
And.
That's about, that's about, I'mtrying to think.
I think that's all of my, thosewould be all of my links.

Great.
Yeah, I'll link it all up in theshow notes and so excited for
you with this new book comingout.
Of course, it's beautiful.
I cannot wait to see the insideon all the illustrations and
everything.

you.

Um, so I'm looking forward to that and
I hope everyone will check outyour podcast as well.
Um, yeah, thanks so much forjoining me.

Thank you for having me again.
I love, I love chatting andyeah, I'm just glad to be here.

Steph Barron Hall (01:03:44):
Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram
IRL.
If you love the show, be sure tosubscribe and leave us a rating
and review.
This is the easiest way to makesure new people find the show.
And it's so helpful for a newpodcast like this one, if you
want to stay connected.
Sign up for my email list in theshow notes or message me on
instagram at nine types co totell me your one big takeaway

(01:04:05):
from today's show I'd love tohear from you.
I know there are a millionpodcasts you could have been
listening to, and I feel sograteful that you chose to spend
this time with me.
Can't wait to meet you rightback here for another episode of
any grim IRL very soon.
The Enneagram and real lifepodcast is a production of nine
types co LLC.

(01:04:25):
It's created and produced byStephanie Barron hall.
With editing support from critscollaborations.
Thanks to dr dream chip for ouramazing theme song and you can
also check out all of theirmusic on Spotify

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