Navigating Identity as a Busy Mom with Enneagram 9s Susanne & Missy, Hosts of the Mom &... Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Susanne (00:00):
I also started my organization and foreign parents
of Austin to advocate forLGBTQIA and.
Students and sex ed in Texas,which is just an open invitation
for like lots of conflict and insome cases, even like dangerous
conflict.
So, um, so it's very not mine ofme.

(00:22):
So I, part of me justifies itand like, I'm like, okay, I, I
so don't want conflict that Idon't want conflict for any of
these little kiddos in theirlives.
So I'll like, I'll take, I'll bein the line of fire to make sure
that these kids don't haveconflict.
I don't even know how I canjustify that, but, um,

Missy (00:39):
sense of justice, I think is what it is.
And you saw something that wasnot right and you wanted to
forge a new path and make itright.
And I think that's very nine.
Welcome back to Enneagram inreal life, a podcast where we

(01:00):
explore how to apply ourEnneagram knowledge in our daily
lives.
I'm your host Steph Barron hall.
And on today's episode, I ammeeting with Missy Stevens and
Suzanne Kerns, who are the hostsof the mom and podcast.
They're both nines on theEnneagram.
Which makes for a bit of a funand interesting conversation
today, we're going to talk alittle bit about subtypes today.

(01:21):
So if you're interested in thatat all, I'll share more about
that.
And I'm going to walk througheach of the three.
Subtypes of type nine.
So stay tuned for that.
Uh, but before we get into that,I'll introduce Missy and
Suzanne.
So Missy Stevens is a writer.
Foster child advocate andpodcaster.
Her past life includes stints asa corporate community relations
manager and nonprofitcommunications writer.

(01:44):
These days, Missy is an aspiringnovelist slowly working on
endless revisions of her firstmanuscript.
Her work has been featured inlocal and national online
publications, as well as in thestage production, listen to your
mother.
Suzanne is a humor writer livingin Austin, Texas with her
husband and two children.
Her work has been featured inscary mommy.

(02:06):
Red book today, parents andseveral parenting anthologies.
She's currently writing herfirst nonfiction book and also
runs informed parents of Austin,a group she founded to advocate
for LGBTQ.
I a plus students, families andstaff in the school district.
So you can check out theirpodcast, mom and, and.
I'll link it in the show notes.

(02:27):
It can be a little bitchallenging to find which we'll
chat about a bit today.
Um, but it's mom and.dot dot.
So the concept is that I think alot of the time, what I hear
from my friends who are parents.
Is that in motherhood, you losea bit of your identity.
And so, making your Lipsey'scount is kind of their motto.
So we talked a little bit todayabout, um, each of their typing

(02:48):
journeys, how they settled ontype nine, some of the wings
versus subtypes, how nines standup for justice and are really
skilled, especially at standingup for others who they perceive
to be treated unfairly.
Uh, we go through a breakdown ofself pres social and one-to-one
nines.
Subtypes.
And we talk a little bit aboutthe growth paths for each
subtype.

(03:09):
So I also wanted to ask them,what is it like to work together
as two nines?
Because this was my first timeinterviewing two podcasts
guests.
At the same time and it flowedreally well.
And I think that's because theykind of have a natural rhythm.
Being podcast partners for solong, but also because they're
both nines and they both kindof, Said, oh, you go first.
You go first, Which is actuallya funny dynamic.

(03:31):
So they also talked aboutnumbing out the world during the
pandemic.
And how they brought theirpandemic woes into this new
podcast and made somethingreally incredible and special.
I think so.
I really hope you'll enjoy thisepisode and be sure to check out
their podcast as well.
I was one of their very firstguests on the podcast and I

(03:52):
talked about the Enneagram, butyou'll also find many other
amazing guests that they'veinterviewed over the years.
So without further ado, here'smy conversation with two nines.
Suzanne and Missy.

Steph Barron Hall (04:05):
Well, Suzanne and Missy, welcome to the
podcast.
Of

Missy (04:09):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.

Susanne (04:11):
So excited to be here.

course.
Um, so I was on your podcast anumber of years ago.
We were just chatting and I wasthinking, Oh, it was like, you
know, two years ago.
It was in 2020.
I cannot believe that.

Susanne (04:24):
I know.
Whenever we are doing, uploadinga podcast and I have to enter
season four and I'm like, what,how?
We just decided to do this.

Yeah.
So cool.
Um, so your podcast is calledmom and.
So tell me a little bit aboutthe background there and why you
decided to name it that.
Yeah,

Missy (04:46):
Suzanne's brainchild.
So I'm going to let her talkabout it

Susanne (04:49):
Okay.
All right.
Well, you know, I, I.
My background is I'd started ata ad agency.
I'd had this professionalcareer.
And then once I became a momafter a failed re entry attempt,
after maternity leave, um, Ibecame a stay at home mom.
And the whole plan was I wasgoing to do that until she
started kindergarten.

(05:10):
Um, but she just started collegeand And I did just start, I did
finally relaunch, um, and we cantalk a little bit about that
later, but, um, over the years,I just realized that there's all
these amazing other quoteunquote, stay at home moms who

(05:31):
were so smart and doing reallyinteresting things.
And we kind of basically just.
didn't know much about eachother.
Like I'd be standing in thepickup line with someone who was
a lawyer or had done corporatefinance or had done some other,
you know, was a VP of X, Y, Z.
And I didn't even know it.

(05:52):
Cause all we would talk aboutwere the kids are all we would
talk about is, you know, what wewere bringing to the next school
party.
And so I, I had wanted to writea book about this for years,
basically like how stay at homemoms can like still be
themselves when they're at homeand make the most of their time,
get really strategic about it.
But I kept on finding reasons asyou probably know, writing a

(06:15):
book, I found all these reasonswhy I could not write it yet.
I couldn't write it because, youknow, I didn't have a job yet.
I couldn't write it because mykids were still, you know, not
old enough.
I explored.
All these things.
Um, so my stallion thing is I,when I was trying to, uh,
research for the book, I waslike, Oh, what a great way to.
Research, but to start thispodcast where I'd be

(06:37):
interviewing a bunch of peoplethat would be, you know, the,
the type of people that havewrite books, that'd be really
interesting and incorporate thatinto the book.
Um, but the, the actual title ofmom and I mean.
I think I had originally startedit with like a stay at home mom
feel, but then we kept onsaying, well, so many moms

(06:59):
struggle with this.
It's not just stay at home moms.
It's once those kids comearound, you start to identify
more with them, what theirinterests are, their sports,
their dance classes, um, andreally losing sight of those
ellipses of the mom and dot,dot, dot.
We like to say, make, make yourellipses count.

(07:20):
Um, so we really try to focus.
on all those ellipses that youdo outside of just your kids,
basically.

Missy (07:29):
Yeah, when we were brainstorming what we wanted the
show to actually be called, wekept saying, well, it's for moms
like us who are moms and writersor moms and advocates or moms
and small business owners.
And all of these things keptcoming up and I don't remember
exactly how it happened, but wewere like, what if we just
called it mom and dot, dot, dot.
We always say the ellipses asthe dot, dot, dot.

(07:50):
Um, and it's stuck.
Although as we were discussingearlier, sometimes we're hard to
find, so we need to work onthat.
I do still love the name.
It's just sometimes tricky tofind.

Susanne (08:01):
Yeah.

great name.
And I think.
You know, so many of my friendswho are moms, you know, I'm not
a mom myself.
Um, but so many of my friendswho are, they have all of these
other aspects of their life thatare important.
And it's like, you don't ceasebeing a human person.
Once you become a parent,especially as a woman, like I
don't feel like men have that,um, You know, same expectation

(08:27):
that like, Oh, now that you're adad, you know, everything else
is secondary.
Um, like it, that's more of anintentional choice of like the
superhero dad, you know?
Um, whereas for, for women, Isee a lot where, um, everything
else just fades into thebackground and that can be
really disillusioning, I thinkfor a lot of women.
So I'm really glad that you'remaking the space.

Susanne (08:49):
Yeah.
And we, that's why we like tosay make your ellipses count
because there are a lot of dot,dot, dots.
I mean, I probably spent adecade of my time at home doing
a lot of dot, dot, dots thatwere.
For a time there, I was mowingthe school's lawn occasionally
when it would get

Missy (09:05):
laugh.

Susanne (09:06):
I was rearranging the lost and found rack at the
elementary school.
I was volunteering for all thesethings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That were not necessarily thebest use of my skills and
talents.
And so, yeah, it's just gettingmore intentional and thinking
about like, okay, there's onlyso many hours in a day.
Do you want to end it mowing thelawn at the school or, uh,

(09:28):
volunteering for an organizationwhere you can really keep some
of your skills fresh?

Yeah.
Um, well, I think that's like a,kind of a perfect segue about
like, You know, um, having thatintentionality and bring that in
instead of kind of floating todifferent things to talk about
your Enneagram types.
So we talked about this a numberof years ago now when I was on
your podcast, but tell me alittle bit about your types and

(09:54):
how each of you found yourEnneagram type.

Missy (09:58):
I think we have similar journeys.
Mine started earlier.
A friend of mine was really wellversed in the Enneagram, was
talking about it, so I startedlooking into it.
And when I initially wentthrough and read some things, I
thought, well, I'm a 6.
And I thought I was a six for along time, uh, and then as I
read more and listened to morepodcasts and got more

(10:18):
information, I realized I'm anine living in sort of an
anxiety riddled stress drivenplace.
And so I was acting like a sixand feeling very sixy, but I'm a
nine.
So I really had to go learn togo look at my motivation.
So it took a long time.
I want to say, I said I was asix for a while.

(10:41):
And then when I really startedto learn about motivations and
figuring out why you do certainthings, I was like, Oh, no, I'm
a nine who's just

Susanne (10:50):
Oh, no.

Missy (10:52):
I'm not a six.
I'm a nine.
Um, and it made a lot of sense.
Cause I had always wanted to bea three.
Like I felt at my best that Iwas three ish.
And that makes sense that I am athree when things are going well
and I'm firing on all cylinders.
I'm a nine.

Susanne (11:08):
Yeah.

What was it like for you to recognize
yourself in type nine?
Was that like a relief or was itlike, Oh no, you know, kind of
like you said.

Missy (11:17):
You know, at first it was, Oh, no, for some reason, I
just did not want to be a nine.
I don't know why.
And now I tell people whenthey're trying to figure out
what they are to let go of that,like all of the numbers are
good.
There's nothing wrong with anyof them.
It just is a way to understandyourself better.
Um, and I found, I also reallywas drawn to the ones.

(11:38):
I thought ones are prettyawesome people.
I want to be a one.
And I think now as I havelearned more, I know I have a
wing, but what helped me is Ifound this description and I
wrote it down, but I will haveto find where I discovered it
was somewhere on the internet,but it said nine wing ones are
very critical, sarcastic, andhave a sharpened sense of
justice.

(11:58):
And they're reasonable peoplewho tend to analyze things and
can tell right from wrong andcan often find a new path that
someone else didn't think of.
And I was like, Oh, Oh, that isme.
And that felt good.
Uh, it felt like I understoodmyself so much better all of a
sudden.
And it was a relief.

Susanne (12:18):
I'm still working on my wing.
Maybe we can figure me out todaybecause

Missy (12:22):
I don't know.

Susanne (12:23):
and actually the reason we had you on very first.
I think it was 1 of our very 1stepisodes is because that was 1
of the.
Very first things Missy saidwhen we were talking about doing
the podcast together is like,let's figure out how we're going
to work together because we hadbeen friends for a long time,
you know, and we knew each otherin that capacity.

(12:44):
But as far as actually.
You know, having an LLCtogether.
Oh, shoot.
Our taxes are still due.
I got to do that, Missy.

Missy (12:51):
It's the second time this week we've gone.
Oh no.

Susanne (12:53):
I know.
Um, but yeah, so that wassomething that Missy brought and
she's like, yeah, oh, I've, Ihave this friend who, you know,
knows about the Enneagram.
I'd never even heard about itbefore that.
Uh, so I started my journeythere and I really went through
pretty much the same process asMissy, where I was pretty sure I
was a six.
spent a few months there.

(13:14):
And then when I finally got itdriven home that it's all about
the intentionality and theintention behind it, then I was
like, Oh, okay.
I do a lot of six things.
Uh, but yes, very, very muchmine.
And I, but it is funny because Idon't know exactly which type Or

(13:35):
like you were saying, what arethe wings, um, but

Missy (13:37):
Lots.

Susanne (13:41):
I also started my organization and foreign parents
of Austin to advocate forLGBTQIA and.
Students and sex ed in Texas,which is just an open invitation
for like lots of conflict and insome cases, even like dangerous
conflict.
So, um, so it's very not mine ofme.

(14:04):
So I, part of me justifies itand like, I'm like, okay, I, I
so don't want conflict that Idon't want conflict for any of
these little kiddos in theirlives.
So I'll like, I'll take, I'll bein the line of fire to make sure
that these kids don't haveconflict.
I don't even know how I canjustify that, but, um,

Missy (14:21):
sense of justice, I think is what it is.
And you saw something that wasnot right and you wanted to
forge a new path and make itright.
And I think that's very nine.

Yeah.
I think.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, no, I think that nines,well, so like when we think of
the virtue of type nine, it'sright action.
Right.
So it's, um, Knowing I, I'mwilling to stand in this area of
conflict.
And I think a lot of the timenines are really good at doing

(14:55):
that on behalf of others inparticular.
Um, I'm, they're like, I'm goingto go stand in this area of
conflict because I know thatthis is what's right.
And so like having really thatembodied sense of this is what I
need to do.
This is what I must do.
This is the action that I musttake, even if it's really
uncomfortable at times, um,because it's worth it to you.

(15:19):
So I think that that isdefinitely a nine thing.

Susanne (15:23):
Oh, good.
Okay.
So it's reconfirming.

Missy (15:26):
Yeah, we both advocate for other people, you know, not
for ourselves.
I advocate for foster children,Suzanne advocates in the LGBTQIA
community.
And it is, it is easier to me togo advocate for someone else.
It would be much harder for meto stand in a courtroom and
argue my case, but I can standin a courtroom and speak for a

(15:46):
child.
No problem.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that that makes a lot ofsense and I think a lot of nines
would agree.
Um, and I think that sometimeswhen people get tripped up on
the conflict thing, I mean, mostpeople don't like conflict.
You know, um, it's, it's, uh,it's not necessarily like
specific to nines and also ourlike different social
identifiers really play a hugerole.

(16:09):
So if you grew up in a familythat didn't do conflict, like
ever, you don't have to be anine to hate them.
The conflict, you know, um, orif you grew up in a family that
has a ton of conflict, maybe youstill hate that conflict.
You know what I mean?
Um, so it doesn't necessarilyhave to do with being a nine,
but, um, like you guys have beenpointing out, like it is the

(16:29):
motivation piece.
So, um, where is that comingfrom?
And what do you do with it?
And I think a lot of ninesrecognize, okay, I actually want
more from my life, you know, andso I'm going to, you know, Um,
but it's important to me, yeah,

Susanne (16:53):
is similar along those lines where, I mean, Uh, like I
said, I love a good nap and Ilike to just kind of chill and
it is work.
It's a lot of work that wedon't, you know, get paid for,
but we do feel like it'svaluable and that there, I mean,
there's still this time in ourlives and throughout the time

(17:13):
that we were staying at homemoms and caring for our kids.
It's like.
It's all the stuff that we wishthat we had had access to and
that we were having someone tellus.
So it is kind of, it's notadvocacy work in any case, but
it's just like this sharing ofknowledge and this sometimes
commiseration, um, that we wishthat we had had access to along

(17:34):
the way.
So there definitely are thingsthat we're willing to unslothify
ourselves for if we feel likeit's for the, for the better
good.

there you go.
I like that.
Um, okay.
So let's jump back for a secondto the topic of wings.
Um, so, I actually use subtypesmore than wings.
Um, so, you know, if you read,for example, the wisdom of the
Enneagram by Russo and Hudson,they kind of refer to the wings

(18:06):
as subtypes.
Um, but I use subtypes in thesense of the instincts.
Um, because sometimes I think itcan be a little bit confusing to
say, I mean, there aredescriptions like the one Missy,
you, you found that was reallygood.
Um, there are descriptions likethat, that you're like, Oh, I
get what that's saying aboutthis nine wing one, but

(18:28):
sometimes it's not always clearwhat we're actually talking
about when we talk about, um,the wings, but the subtypes have
a lot more of a cleardescription and a clear growth
path.
So have you guys delved intothese at all?

Susanne (18:42):
Ooh,

Missy (18:43):
haven't.
Like, you just brought it up andI'm like, I've heard of it, but
I don't, I could not speakintelligently to it at

Susanne (18:48):
Yeah, I'm all about the idea of growth paths, though,
that's,

Missy (18:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm.

called self preservation, social, and
sexual.
When I'm teaching in corporate,I say spark because I like the
alliteration for the last oneinstead of sexual, of course,
um, but there are threeinstincts and they can be
multiplied with each type tomake 27 distinct subtypes.
Now, it can be useful to look atthem overall, like, um, The self

(19:17):
preservation instinct is thisway, this social instinct is
this way, et cetera.
But there is a specific way thateach of the instincts plays out
with each of the types.
And I think that that's moreuseful, um, looking at them in
the context of the type.
So self preservation nines, um,are, Very routine oriented.

(19:37):
They tend to be practical.
They're not like the most likedreamy or imaginative.
They tend to be a lot moregrounded overall.
They like routines.
They like to provide things forpeople, um, provide space for
people.
Um, they are, uh.
They can sometimes be known tobe a little bit assertive.
Um, and it's not necessarilythat they are being like

(20:00):
aggressive in any way, but it'smore so they have an awareness
of like, I don't have capacityfor certain things.
Um, and so they're kind of like,No, they might not directly say
that, but they kind of have alittle bit more of an awareness
of that.
Um, I think in general, allnines do the self forgetting
thing.
All nines can have a kind of ahard time and like merging with

(20:21):
different people.
But, um, I think selfpreservations do that a little
bit less.
So, um, because they're reallytrying to maintain that, that
sense of self and boundaries andcomfort a little bit of how
Missy, you described the ninewing one description that you
found earlier, that sounded alittle bit like the self
preservation

Missy (20:38):
Uh huh.

to me.
Um, so then we have social andsocial nines care a lot about
belonging and they kind of havethis belief, uh, about the
group.
And like, I want to belong tothe group and kind of like, if
I'm not right in the thick ofit, then I'll kind of cease to
exist to anyone at all.
So they kind of insertthemselves there.

(20:59):
Um, but they just join a lot ofthings.
They tend, I mean, social nineshave the most jobs.
You know, the most volunteerthings, the most everything,
because they're always justdoing something new.
Um, and they tend to be fairlyenergetic, um, in terms of how
the, the stereotype of type 9,um, because they always have

(21:20):
like that joining kind ofenergy.
They're, they're fun.
They're chatty.
They're sociable.
Um.
And so a lot of the time peopledon't realize how much social
nines kind of forget themselvesa little bit in the process, um,
because they can kind of seem alittle bit more, perhaps like a
three, maybe like a two, alittle bit.
And then the sexual nine, um, isthe nine that merges the most

(21:44):
with other people.
So they want to have onespecific other person who they
can really merge strongly andjust like meld themselves into.
Um, and.
They tend to take on a lot ofthat person's identity and nines
in general kind of do that withtheir significant other, but
sexual nines in particular, doit a lot more.
Um, so they can have like, thatstronger sense of, of merging

(22:06):
and connection with a specificother person.
Um, and, um, They have a reallyhard time truly knowing
themselves, sexual nines andsexual threes are the two
subtypes that on the wholeEnneagram that just cannot know
themselves very well until theyreally start doing the work, um,
because they have kind of hadthis pattern of, of forgetting

(22:27):
themselves and mergingcompletely melting into somebody
else.

Missy (22:31):
Mm.

Susanne (22:32):
Ooh.

Missy (22:33):
to that a lot.
Mm

Susanne (22:36):
Ooh, that might be, we're finally different, Missy.
I think I'm the social.

Missy (22:40):
Oh, I think you are too.
She was talking.
Did you see me point at you?
I was

Susanne (22:43):
Okay.

Missy (22:44):
yeah, yeah,

I, I don't like to like pigeonhole people,
but when you were describing,you know, just your perspective,
I was like, Oh, that soundsreally like a social nine.

Susanne (22:53):
Yeah.
I think so, which is also veryfunny because I usually would be
like, I'm an introvert, but I'mvery like, I'm a very joiner
introvert.
It's a very, I don't know.
It's a contradiction, I'm sure.

Yeah.
But see, what do you think aboutyours?

Missy (23:09):
Well, I don't, I've, I recognize some of myself in the
self preservation and Irecognize some of myself in that
sexual.
Just that I get very.
Very easily lost in whatever I'mpart of at that time like I can
I definitely feel like I take onWho I'm with But I don't yeah, I

(23:32):
mean I tend to be involved in alot of things too So at times
I'm taking on different thingswhen I'm in that room I'm that
and when I'm in a differentroom, I'm that other thing No,

makes sense.
Um, yeah.
And I think, you know, if, ifespecially for right now, if
you're like, lady, I'm on apodcast, like, I don't, I don't
need to go into all this rightnow.
Um, you can just

Missy (23:55):
let's do it

connecting with the nine wing one.
Like I think if that's usefulfor you, um, I think in terms of
the growth pathway, like it is,so I'll just give a couple of,
um, quick examples.
So for the self preservationnine, it's really about breaking
out of that routine.
A little bit like finding waysto break out of it and like
challenging yourself a littlebit to be more prep because, um,

(24:20):
the routines allow self pressnine to go on autopilot.
So it's, it's about getting outof autopilot.
Um, for social nines, it's aboutsaying no.
Being like, okay, I'm going togive myself some space and some
time and some space forconnection.
Um, and like some rest, right.
True rest.
Like, what does that look likefor you?

(24:40):
So challenging that.
And then for the sexual nine,it's really getting to know
yourself.
Um, a sexual nine friend of minehas started journaling.
And if you've heard of like theartist's way, like I love that
process.

Susanne (24:52):
I've got it

Is it right there on your shelf?
Yeah.
Yeah.

Susanne (24:57):
it two and a half times.

so I, I like that a lot because it really is
kind of that way of just, streamof consciousness connecting, but
also having your artist statesright of like, and in some ways
I'm like, What?
How, how is this have time?
And how are moms, especially,supposed to have time for that?
But, um, like having that spaceto really connect with yourself

(25:21):
and get to know yourself andwhat do you actually want and
need from life?

Susanne (25:27):
I love that.

Missy (25:28):
really connect to that because I mean, Suzanne and I've
talked about this on our ownpodcast many times.
Years ago, a therapist asked me,what do you like?
And I could not answer it.
I was like, I don't, I don'tknow.
And I've still struggled.
Some I've worked really hard inthe years since to identify.
What I like, um, and just tospeak up about it, speaking up

(25:51):
about what I like is, was alwaysreally hard because I would go
into a room and like what thatperson likes.
and so, yeah, I really, Iconnect to that.
I don't love it, but I connectto that.

You watch Runaway Bride and you're like,
what?
Why is this my life?
How do you like your eggs?
Yeah,

Susanne (26:13):
Exactly.
Oh, we love that example.
We use that a lot.

Missy (26:17):
Uh huh.
Yeah.
How do you like your eggs?
I'll, I'll have those.
Yeah.

And then she's like, I don't

Missy (26:23):
I actually hate them.

Well, so what is it like for you two then
working together, two nines, youknow, probably different
subtypes.
What is that like for you?

Missy (26:38):
I mean, we were thinking about it this last night and we
were saying, like, on paper, itprobably looks like a recipe for
chaos, but somehow it works.
Um, I don't, I don't know if, ifwe don't have drama because we
avoid conflict or we just trulyhaven't had drama.
I don't know.
What do you think, Suzanne?
Like, I think it has been prettysmooth.

Susanne (26:59):
I think so.
And I think part of the nothaving drama has also just been
because we're both pretty chillabout it.
And we had established prettyearly on this idea of like the
no stress zone.
And I think we pretty much havean equal amount of like, Our,
our pod usually goes live onThursdays and it's like

(27:20):
Wednesday at 11 p.
m.
One of us will be like, it's notgoing to happen.
And, and we kind of alternatetaking turns for like, why it's
not going to happen.
I said, my daughter just went tocollege last year, so things
were a little bonkers that yearand Missy's going through that.
process right now with her son.
And so I just have a lot ofempathy for what that schedule

(27:46):
looks like.
And, you know, cause there's theprom, there's the getting the
applications ready.
There's the, all the things inyour life just is not your own
for.
Well, let's be honest, since,since the umbilical cord got
cut, but,

Missy (28:00):
2006,

Susanne (28:01):
but particularly that senior year of high school can
be a little bit bananas.
Um, so I think we're just prettyunderstanding with that.
And we also know that like,There is probably nobody in the
world who is sitting there onThursday morning being like, Oh,
the pod's late.
And so,

Missy (28:20):
might notice if it didn't drop for months, but they're not
waiting every Thursday.

Susanne (28:24):
yeah, so it's, I think we've taken it pretty easy on
each other.
And I think it helps probablythat we had a solid core
friendship before we started.
And so that is more importantthan anything that would happen
around the podcast.
Um, but I think at least 10times a week, we say, I have no
idea.

(28:45):
How we continue to do this on aweekly basis, not because we
don't want to do it, but becauselike neither one of us is going
to be mad if the other onedoesn't do it or doesn't show up
and we do kind of like to chilland rest and take a nap.
And so it would be just so mucheasier to be like, you know,
let's just, let's not do it thisweek.
But until we took a littlehiatus, um, for Missy's

(29:09):
recovery, but, um, which I don'tknow if you want to share, I
can, we can cut that out if

Missy (29:14):
no, that's fine.
I'm fine talking about it.
Yeah, absolutely.

Susanne (29:17):
so yeah, uh, Missy had a breast cancer diagnosis last
fall.
And so through the recovery forthat, we, um, took a little
hiatus and yeah, and I don'tknow where I was going with
this, but, but, oh, but otherthan that, I mean, it's been
every week, every week we've,uh, for the past four, three and

(29:39):
a half

Missy (29:40):
we're in our fourth year.
Yeah.

Susanne (29:41):
Yeah, so we do, we have, just as we're coming back
from that hiatus, now we'redoing every two weeks, but, um,
it's,

Missy (29:48):
every two weeks.
It's not always right on the dotevery two weeks.
And I think like it's a realgift to us to be able to do
this.
It's a privilege that we canfind the time to do it and we
take it seriously, but we don'ttake ourselves very seriously
and we leave a lot of room forlife.
I mean, there's, I could havepowered through after surgery

(30:10):
and recorded and put out shows,but.
There was no reason to do that.
Like it was nice to take thetime to rest and heal and, um,
just take a break.
And we're easing back into itand learning how to, to do it.
I think, again, I think that'skind of been the situation in
the last couple of months iswe're learning to get back in
that groove of just the jobsthat go with putting out a

(30:31):
podcast and that we're, we'rerelaxed about it.

Yeah.
I mean, here's the thing, Missy,this is why you don't want to be
a three.
Okay.
Because recently I was talkingto a friend and he was like, Oh
yeah, you know, I just like did.
He was like talking aboutextracurriculars.
He did growing up and he's like,yeah, it was just like really
low pressure.
And I was sitting there.
I was like that does notdescribe literally anything in
my life.

Missy (30:56):
Hmm.

is absolutely nothing that is low pressure.
And now I try to be reallyintentional about finding ways
to be really low pressure.
But it is an effort.
Okay.

Missy (31:10):
Yeah.

release the pressure.
And it sounds so nice becauselike one time I got a review
that about my, um, uploadschedule being inconsistent.
And I, ever since then for along time, I put so much
pressure on myself.
So yeah, sometimes I stillwouldn't get the podcast out,
but I would just, just soeveryone knows, feel like total
shit about it.

(31:31):
Like, um, and now I think I I'vekind of like relaxed that some,
because I'm like, Well, I don'thave capacity for everything.
Um, but I really appreciate yourapproach to the podcast because,
um, it's that expectation thatlife is busy and it's okay.

Susanne (31:47):
yeah, and it, well, it does help that that's kind of
the whole theme of our podcastis, you know, we interview these
career coaches about settingboundaries and really having,
knowing those limits and Andsetting those expectations with
people around you and like Missysaid, we do take it really
seriously.
Um, I think that we do a reallygood job with it.

(32:08):
Um, but we do We also know thatwe have lives and people,
hopefully, if our listeners aretaking anything that any of our
guests or us say to heart, thenthey will appreciate that.
Ooh, yeah, if, if they, if itwas late, they had a reason, um,
and, and I'm glad that they,they took that time for
themselves or whatever, or, ortook care of their kid's issue,

(32:29):
um, versus feeling like theyneeded to crush it to get the
podcast released exactly ontime.

Yeah.
That makes sense to me.
I like that.
I have been reading this bookcalled Feel Good Productivity by
Ali Abdaal.
He's one of my favoriteYouTubers.
Um, so, and I've been loving hisbook, but he talks about be
sincere and not serious.
So like approach things withsincerity, which is what you're
doing, right?

(32:56):
You're, you're saying like, I'msincere about wanting to put out
this really awesome podcast, um,and share these different
voices.
But.
I'm not going to take it tooseriously.
And it makes it a little bitlighter.

Missy (33:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we've set it up.
I, some of it intentionally andsome of it I think has just
happened to us for us, but we'veset it up in such a way that we
are.
Are not beholden to anybody.
We don't have a producer waitingon us.
We do this all ourselves.
We're not taking money fromanyone.
So we don't have that pressureof, Oh, we have advertisers who

(33:30):
are expecting us to do this.
And maybe one day we will pivotand do that.
Um, and we'll have to be readyto make that change because it
will look very different, but wehave set it up in such a way
that we can really drive theboat.
And sometimes we like the boatto be just.
Anchored and chillin and we cantake a nap on the boat.

I love it.
I love

Susanne (33:53):
ha! Let's drive our boat into a cove.

Missy (33:57):
Yeah, we're just gonna hang out here for a while.
Our boat just hung out all falland it was okay.

Susanne (34:02):
It is not a speedboat.

Missy (34:04):
No, no, it's a pontoon for sure.

Oh, that sounds lovely, delightful.

Susanne (34:12):
Now you make me want to go take a nap.

yeah,

Missy (34:17):
thing is the thing I think I railed against hardest
with nines.
I did not like that and At thesame time, I acknowledge that I
am a person who needs my restand when I'm overwhelmed, I shut
down and go to a nap.
Um, and I hate that about myselfand I really did not want to
face that.
And then now it's just, Iunderstand why I am that way, or

(34:39):
at least I acknowledge it.
And now I own it a little moreand say, I, I need to rest
because I cannot function if Idon't shut down for a little
while.

Susanne (34:50):
Yeah, and actually that was one of the things that I
had.
a hard time figuring out likebehavior versus motivation about
because I do have a thyroidissue, which does, I mean, that
does impact energy levels.
And, uh, so for a long time, Iwas like, well, does it just
mean my thyroid levels low or doI really need to take a nap?

(35:13):
And And I did realize that itwas just like in moments of
stress when I didn't want todeal with a particular thing, or
if there was just, especially inthe state of our world,
political landscapes, whatever,it's just sometimes you're just
like, yeah, I, my, my brain, myheart can't take any more of
this right now.
And I just need to shut it down.

Missy (35:33):
Yeah.

What are some ways that you've found that you
can truly feel refreshed andrevitalized and rested?
Hahahahaha.
Mmhmm,

Missy (35:46):
if I have an answer for this.

Susanne (35:49):
I think, well, we'll see, spring break is next week.
So I do find vacations.
It's really weird.
And I, I had this back in myfull time working life.
And now that I'm back in mycontract work, I'm really good
at like switching off.
Like my work, Suzanne is verylike, I get stuff done.

(36:13):
I got deadlines.
You know, I don't want to letanybody down.
I don't want to let my clientsdown.
There's, you know, it's veryproject management in the
advertising space, where if Idon't do my part, I'm throwing
off for other people's parts.
Um, but then as soon as I get tothat airport or I'm in the car
driving away, it's like, whatjob?
Like, I just, it's very turn on,turn off.

(36:37):
So I do feel like just getting.
out of whatever that environmentis.
Um, so vacations definitely doit for me.
Um, but even just like, well,it's hard working from home now.
Um, you know, it's not juststepping out of the office
trying to make that barrierfrom, I'm not at the computer

(36:59):
anymore.
I can shut my brain down andenjoy my family, chill out and
watch some Netflix.
Um, but yeah, good nap.
I love a good nap and reallywalking.
Um, but taking hikes, which youwould think would make you more
tired, um, is really helpful forme.

Missy (37:17):
Yeah.
I think for me it is exercise.
Um, I make sure I do somethingevery day.
Sometimes it's not reallyhardcore.
I'm not doing anything crazy,but something, um, I can't think
about really anything else whileI'm doing that.
So that's good for my brain.
And, um, yeah, I think.
It doesn't even have to be goingaway on vacation.

(37:38):
Just something out of theroutine helps me.
So if we go see live music,we're not big live music people,
to be honest, but, um, you know,but you can do that here in
Austin.
So you're like, oh, well, let'sjust go sit somewhere and listen
to something or go see acomedian or, um, you know, just
go to a movie, which I haven'tdone in a while.
But as Suzanne was talking, Iwas like, I have to get back to

(37:59):
that.
Going just out of the routineand doing something a little bit
different, that takes enough ofmy focus that I can't be in my
head thinking about what else Ineed to be doing.

Yeah.
Yeah.
That can be really hard and Ithink especially the past few
years, um, it is, it's beenreally hard to kind of step out
of that processing because we'vebeen in all this vigilance and
kept thinking, okay, it's goingto get so much easier.
And then it didn't.

(38:33):
And in fact, now everything justfeels hard.
Yeah.

Missy (38:37):
right,

Susanne (38:38):
Yes.
I was just thinking of that thismorning because we're basically
at the, what year is it?
The four year anniversary ofwhen.
At least when we're recordingthis, of when the COVID stuff
really went down, and so I'vebeen hearing more and more about
that, but just that idea oflike, there's no more excuses
anymore.

(38:58):
For, there was a couple yearperiod of time, if you didn't
want to do something, or youdidn't want to take something
on, or you didn't want to commityour kid to this particular
activity.
There, I mean, there was a, justa universal understanding of
like, yes, that's fine if youdon't want to do that thing.
And now there's no more excusesanymore for turning something

(39:21):
down or not participating insomething.
Your excuse has to be somethingthat you advocate for on your
own behalf.
And, you know, so, Again, as inEnneagram 9, it was nice having
those excuses because you neverhad to like say no or, um,
explain to someone why you werequote unquote letting them down
by not doing something.

Yeah, I was just listening to, um, this book
by actually a guest that I'vehad on the podcast, Dr.
Aditi Neerakar, um, and shetalks about five resets and, um,
so five resets to reset yourlife, stress, resilience, um,
burnout, all those sorts ofthings.
So.
One of the things that shetalked about is how during the
pandemic, initially we firstthought, Oh, it's going to be

(40:04):
quick.
Right.
It's going to be a couple ofweeks.

Missy (40:06):
Two weeks.

And then we thought, okay, maybe a little
bit longer.
And then there was all thismessaging.
Okay.
Once this is over, we're justgoing to like celebrate and
everything's going to beamazing.
So like painting this reallybeautiful picture of the future.
But during that moment, most ofus, you know, we buckled down,
we like made things happen.
We got through it expecting oncewe weren't under pressure
anymore.

(40:28):
Things would be fine.
But what happens when you'reunder pressure for a long time,
right?
Like you get through it and thenall of a sudden after your big
presentation or whatever you getsick

Susanne (40:39):
Mm hmm.

And your your body your immune system,
whatever is like, okay now I canlike have this delayed stress
response and I think that'sreally insightful because I
mean, we kind of had thiscollective experience of that.
Um, and it makes sense becauseI've talked to so many people in
the last year in particularwho've been facing a lot of

(41:00):
burnout, um, myself included,and I think that that makes
sense.
Mm-Hmm.

Susanne (41:06):
Yeah.

Missy (41:07):
Yeah.
I do think, like, to your point,like everything feels like it
never got un hardd.
You know, it, there was not amoment of a collective sigh and
I think we envisioned likeripping the masks off and going
back to life.
And the reality is we have goneback to life, but we never, we

(41:29):
never had that full reset.
We've never gotten to relaxreally.
And um, you know, here we arefour years on and there's still
a lot going on out in the worldand there's still a lot of
things to consider.
Nothing feels, I was looking atpictures because I have a son
who's a senior and I have tolike turn in pictures for senior

(41:50):
slideshows and stuff.
So I was looking at picturesfrom the last 18 years and I
felt as I got to 2019 and 2020,I felt my chest tighten and I
was like, this is the last, thisis it.
This was the end.
And everything after that, eventhough if you're looking at most
of the pictures, you don't see adifference.
I just know like everythingafter that is in a different

(42:12):
place.
And a different world.
And we are all different people.
It's overwhelming.

It's,

Susanne (42:19):
Whew.
We're getting deep.
We're getting deep.
We're getting deep.
We're getting deep.

Missy (42:24):
Sorry.
Y'all got that.
Cause that was on my mindyesterday as I'm pulling
pictures, you know, crying aboutbaby pictures and then like, Oh
my God.
You're like,

Mm-Hmm.

Susanne (42:33):
yeah, it

Missy (42:34):
son's birthday's in March and I'm like, this was his
birthday and the next day theworld shut down, you know, like,

Susanne (42:41):
parenting through COVID is a whole different lens.
And I can't even imagine whatit's like for parents of
littles, but, uh, we both hadkiddos in these high school
years.
And I was just talking to my sonwho is going into high school
and I was like, and he's goingto the same high school his
sister went to.
And I was like, I get toactually experience.

(43:01):
It's a high school experience.
I mean, I kind of mourned thatfor myself.
I mourned it for her, but I alsomourned it for myself of like,
we didn't, you know, a lot ofkids didn't get proms.
They didn't get these dances.
They didn't get to go to theschool plays or the games or,
and just, or just interact, goon dates.

(43:22):
Like it was just, it's just, Imean, yeah, it's, it's a whole
different thing, but, um, Yeah.
It's, it's nice to be on theother side of it and like this
fresh start with him.
I'm like, Oh, I get toexperience this.
But then it also just is areminder of like, Oh, to be
gentle with those people whodidn't necessarily have that or

(43:42):
experienced it

Missy (43:43):
all went through some stuff.

Susanne (43:45):
Yeah.
Yeah,

Yeah.

Susanne (43:47):
four years, whoo!

Missy (43:49):
Yeah.
And it seems like yesterday, Iknow that's such a trite thing
to say, but it really, I feel itvery, like viscerally, I can put
myself right there right now.

Susanne (43:58):
I can still feel the Clorox wipes washing down my
cereal boxes!

Yes.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
What a time.
Um, I, I'm curious.
You know, just thinking tooabout your types, if you feel
like that has impacted the waythat you've navigated this at
all.

Missy (44:21):
I, without a doubt, although I haven't, I haven't
looked at it like that before,but you know, I, in times of
stress.
I go to that six and my anxietywas through the roof through all
of this and I catastrophized andI would think of, I was planning
and preparing so that when theworst happened, we would be
ready.
We had the Clorox wipe set up atthe station in the garage for

(44:44):
the groceries and the, you know,and really, I felt at times I
felt really lonely becausepeople who are not.
In a sixth place in stress,we're not doing the same mental
gymnastics I was doing.
And so they would be sometimesmore chill about the whole thing
than I was, you know, they wouldjust, they didn't seem to have

(45:05):
that fear and they seemed readyto go back to real life sooner
than I was.
Um, yeah, I hadn't really lookedat it like that before, but as I
think about it, For sure.
And I rested like a boss duringthat time.
I took a lot of naps.

Ha ha ha ha.
Oh,

Susanne (45:28):
know, I really, I think I did a disservice to my poor
kids because I did kind of, IAlternated between being hyper,
you know, the six researchcatastrophizing and everything,
and then just totally, I don'twant to say totally checking
out.
There was a lot of bourbonconsumed evenings.
I mean, there was a lot of, Oh,what was that weird guy?

(45:51):
I thought he had the alligators,or who was

Missy (45:57):
No, Tiger King?

Susanne (45:58):
Tiger King!

Missy (46:00):
Yeah, we did watch a lot of things we would never ever
watch

Susanne (46:03):
Oh, yeah, I mean, that was the time of Tiger King,
yeah, I mean, I could get a oldfashioned and some Tiger King
and just like, kids are in bed,okay, just, I'm gonna pretend
the world doesn't exist anymore,um,

Missy (46:17):
definitely numbed out all those feelings.

Susanne (46:20):
yeah, and that, uh, that's something that, uh, I, I

Missy (46:23):
both have cut back or quit drinking and But it ramped
up so much during that time andit was numbing.
It was a numbing behavior for

Susanne (46:32):
Yeah, it's bad, bad habit, and it took a while to
recognize it.
And I think there probably werea lot of habits that were
developed during that time, andI'm sure it depends on what your
type is, what you gravitatedtowards, but I think both of us
were just that.
numbing, whether throughexcessive napping or when you
had to be present, having anextra glass of wine to numb out.

(46:57):
Um, or in my case, I also wouldtry to make myself really busy
doing six things, which wouldhelp you be able to be like, Oh,
I'm very focused on thisspreadsheet of the best Clorox
wipe for, you know, killingthese germs.
And that will keep me fromthinking about like, what what
impact this is having on therest of the world, my family, my
kids.

(47:17):
Um, so yeah, very avoidance,very avoidance.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that makes a lotof sense and all of these
things.
I mean, none of them are likebad, right?
Because it's what you needed toget through it.
I mean, You did it.
I mean, I don't really thinkit's probably good to drink a
lot of alcohol, but I know thatthat was a, uh, a coping
mechanism.
A lot of people use myselfincluded.
And yeah, I've since stoppeddrinking, um, entirely, but.

(47:48):
Yeah.

Susanne (47:49):
Yeah.

Missy (47:50):
It's crazy.
When I look back on it, I can'tbelieve that that was, that,
that was how I was coping andthat was how we were living our
lives.
And I wonder what my childrenabsorbed from that.
But yeah, it started as, youknow, like the most of the
world, I think this is twoweeks.
It's like, we'll treat it kindof like vacation, even though it

(48:11):
is in no way a vacation, butwe'll treat it that way so that
our brains can cope.
And then the vacation neverended.
And then it was just the habitof avoidance things or filling
our time with weirdness andtopping it off with a bourbon
and not great, not great,

Susanne (48:31):
We still have our habit of watching Survivor or Amazing
Race in front of the TV while weeat dinner.
We're like, we always used tohave family dinner at the table
and then we're like, Oh, thisis, you know, trying to distract
the kids too, which is, youknow, a horrible modeling for
the future generation and belike, Mommy needs to distract
herself.
So I'm going to distract youtoo.

(48:51):
And we're going to.
Fun.
We're gonna have pizza in frontof the TV.
And so that will keep

Missy (48:55):
For

Susanne (48:56):
that the world is on fire.
Four years later, we're still,my kids are like, are we ever
going to go back to the tableagain?
In fact, they think it's justsuch a treat when we eat at the
table like

Missy (49:09):
Oh, no, mine ask what's wrong, who died.
Like, I'm like, we're all gonnahave dinner together.
They're like, do you have newsfor us or something?
Like, what's the, what's thedeal?
And I'm like, no, I just thoughtwe'd look at each other and have
a meal.
They're like, that's the worst.
Why are we doing that?
Yeah.
Yeah.

Susanne (49:25):
teenagers.

Missy (49:26):
can we please watch TV?
Yeah.

if, if you guys have any advice for people
who are embarking on this selfdiscovery journey, they just
learned there are nine, whattips do you have for them?

Susanne (49:42):
Don't be afraid of your nineness.
Um, but no, my biggest thing wasreally just focusing on the
intention versus the behaviorand knowing that if you're just
having a hard time typing.
any type that you are.
Um, and I've, I also, um, makesure you do not distract
yourself from having to getreally deep and uncomfortable

(50:04):
about understanding yourself bygoing around and trying to type
all your friends.
I spent a lot of time instead oflike, Oh, forget about me.
Let's see, what is my husband?
What is my mom?
What is my whatever.
Um, so that would be just ingeneral, some of my advice as
far as.
I mean, it is uncomfortable, butit, you know, it, it takes some

(50:25):
work, but I think it's worth itto help understanding yourself.

Missy (50:30):
Yeah, my favorite advice I got while I was going through
it was don't just take quizzesand try to figure out what you
are.
Some of them are very good.
Some of them are probably fairlyaccurate.
But a quiz can only do so muchand you really need to read and
delve into it.
There are a lot of greatpodcasts out there with people

(50:51):
who are discussing it.
Listen, like, listen.
Download some podcasts, takesome time, listen, listen to
other people.
If you think you're a nine,listen to other nines talk.
I mean, that's really when Icame around to it was hearing
other nines and me going, Oh,those are my motivations as
well.
And letting, letting all thatinformation in is overwhelming.

(51:14):
Like you do have to giveyourself space for that, but
give yourself the room and justdo it

Yeah.

Susanne (51:19):
Get uncomfortable.

Yeah.
Ooh.
That's not, not the most fun fora nine.

Susanne (51:25):
Well, yeah, there's a reason it took us a few months.
I mean, because by the time wehad you on that first episode, I
think we had been talking aboutit.
For at least a month or so and Istill was kind of going back and
forth and I think even after youcame like I was still like, I'm
not sure that this is right.
So,

Missy (51:44):
I want to say as recently as six ish months ago, I don't
know, maybe some, it was maybeone of the last recordings we
did before I had surgery.
You said, Oh, I might be a six.
I think I'm a six again.
Like that was not long ago.

Susanne (51:57):
yeah, because, um, Going back to work was such a
behavior shift.
And so I was really, so it waslike, I'm doing a bunch of
different things or doing abunch of things differently, um,
than I have for the past,however many years.
Um, And so, yeah, I've, goingback to work has been a real

(52:19):
trip in the sense of realizinghow many, or how important it is
for me to have externalmotivation in terms of a
paycheck or the rest of the teamor your client relying on you,
and just trying to take a deeperlook at like the way that I'm
handling the new working Suzanneand, you know, Yeah.

(52:42):
I was just trying to make surethat like everything that I was
doing behavior wise, the reasonbehind the behavior was still in
line with what I had typedmyself as.
And I know that Enneagram isdifferent than some things.
Um, I know you've said that itis more permanent throughout
life.
It isn't just something that,yeah, when you go back to work,
you're going to become this newtype.
Whereas, you know, maybe a MyersBriggs or something may shift

(53:05):
throughout your life.
Um, so I.
I was like, certainly going backto work didn't completely change
me.
And I don't think it did, butthere was a time there when I
was just so out of my regularroutine that it was making me
question, like, how much of mybehavior was a type versus how

(53:26):
much of it was just like, I hada lot of extra time on my hands,
so I had time for a nap.
And so, yeah.

I mean, I think that the subtypes can be
really helpful in helping youunderstand that too.
Um, because it really helpsexplain some of the differences.
Um, yeah.
And I think that's reallyhelpful, though I will say
overall, sixes and nines havethe hardest time finding their
type.
Um, and I think in particular,the self preservation six, um,

(53:56):
can get confused with type ninea lot.
Um, like Missy, as you weretalking, I was like, Hmm, I
think if, if we were doing atyping interview, I might be
curious about self preservationsix.
Um, Because I mean, hearing thatyou, you know, heard these
panels and stuff and heard thenine motivation and that that
made a lot of sense to you.

(54:17):
That makes sense to me why youlanded at nine.
But I'm not surprised that youthought you were a six for a
while first.

Susanne (54:24):
Interesting.
Now you're going to make her goback and

Missy (54:26):
I know.
It

Susanne (54:27):
again.

Missy (54:27):
to go back.

Oh, no.
Oh, no.

Susanne (54:31):
The

I'll send you some info.

Missy (54:34):
Okay.
Good.
Yeah.

but.

Missy (54:36):
Yeah.

yeah, I think that that makes sense.
And I think that what you bothshared is really helpful just
about like going into thatdiscomfort, um, for all of us, I
think can often be helpfulthough.
You know, I, I, sometimes we puta lot of pressure on ourselves
to get way too uncomfortable.
And I think just baby steps arereally helpful, um, is, is what
I've found.

(54:57):
But, um, I have two lastquestions before we get to where
everyone can find you.

Susanne (55:03):
All right.

Um, so I'll, I'll give you each a chance to
answer.
So tell me about a book that hashelped you refresh you or shaped
you in the last year.

Missy (55:15):
Okay.
Well, we laughed about thiscause both of us were like deer
in the headlights.
We were like, have we ever reada book?
And we, both of us read orlisten to probably one or two a
week, you know, like, are thereany books?
I don't know.
Um, but the first one thatpopped in my head was, um,
devotions by Mary Oliver, whichis just a collection of all of
Mary Oliver, not all of it, buta lot of her poetry, um, read it

(55:37):
before.
And I've been spending a lot oftime with it in the last six
months or so, and I just loveher.

So good.

Susanne (55:45):
I still need to read that.
You've mentioned that before.
I need to.

Missy (55:47):
Yeah.

Susanne (55:49):
Okay, well, mine is, uh, Radiant Rebellion by Karen
Walrund, and it's all about thisidea of flipping the idea of
aging on its head, where mostpeople see it as a season of
decline.
Um, and, um, I just love Karen.
She always seems to be writing abook just for me, like when I

(56:10):
was starting to get burned outfor a bunch of advocacy, all my
advocacy work a few years ago,she had a book called Light
Makers Manifesto that was, Ithink the subheading of it was
working for change withoutlosing your joy, um, which I
really needed at that time.
And then now during menopauseand entering fifties, uh, this

(56:32):
book is just awesome.
It's all about like.
Approaching your after 50 yearswith this sense of adventure and
getting curious about yourselfand getting curious about life.
And it's so much about what wedo on our podcast and aligned
with that, that I just loved it.
And so I can't wait to see whatour next book is going to be.

(56:53):
It's like she plans my futurefor me based on whatever she's
writing about.

That's awesome.
I love that.
I'll have to check that out.
Um, okay.
Finally, what is a piece ofadvice that has really stuck
with you?

Missy (57:06):
I told Suzanne, I guess I've never received any advice
ever.
Uh, but then when I, the nextthing that popped in my head was
silly, but it was advice notreally given to me.
It was given to anyone listeningto a makeup tutorial.
The woman said back away fromthe magnifying mirror.
Um, but I have carried that withme, not just in doing, I'm not,

(57:28):
I mean, look at me, I don'tmakeup is not really my thing.
Um, but I thought to me, Iflipped it to just, I don't need
to put everything under themagnifying mirror.
I don't need to examineeverything that closely.
Sometimes you just need to goand do and be without being so

(57:48):
hypercritical, I guess.
Uh, so I think about that a lot.
I don't need to be so criticalof myself.

Yeah.
I

Susanne (57:57):
Ooh, I like that one.

do.

Missy (58:00):
What about you, Suzanne?
Oh, yeah.
In order to put on any makeup, Ineed it when

Susanne (58:09):
and I'm like, how, how have I even got a mascara on my
eyes until now?
Like see, I'm saying go, go intothe magnifying mirror, but no,

Missy (58:19):
you're doing your makeup.

Susanne (58:20):
why don't you do your makeup?

Makeup only.

Susanne (58:22):
The only makeup.
Uh, let's see.
I'm.
I'm.
just happened to be yesterday.
I was listening to GlennonDoyle's podcast and she was
talking about, you know, all thewars going on and everything
that, where it is reallytempting, especially if you're
an Enneagram nine to just shutdown.
Um, and she had this great quoteof like, Don't let what you

(58:46):
can't do keep you from doingwhat you can do.
So this idea of like, oh, well,I'm not going to solve the
Middle East crisis by, you know,donating or whatever.
It's like, well, no, but youcan, you can help certain
things.
But I think that applies to somany different areas in your
life, not just.
charitable organizations, butum, even just those little

(59:10):
actions that you can take inyour life that can have
eventually a really big effect.
Um, so don't focus on all thereasons you're doing something
wrong, or it's not quite right,or you don't have enough
information.
Just like take that step and,and do what you can.

Missy (59:29):
like that.

I like that too.
Um, those are so great.
Um, and I think especially that,that advice to do what you can
is great for social subtypes inparticular.
Might find that really helpful.

Susanne (59:40):
Yes.

Um, all right.
Well, where can everyone findyou?

Susanne (59:47):
Apparently, you better go to our website

Missy (59:50):
Website is spelled out.

Susanne (59:52):
yeah, it's momandpodcast.
com.
So that's the website where youcan go to and it's and spelled
out M O M A N D podcast.
Um, but yes, if you are goinginto Spotify or you're going
right into the Apple, sometimesthey can be a little buggery
about, um, being able to findus.

(01:00:12):
First of all, cause there's abazillion podcasts that start
with mom.
So, um, Not a shame on us,Missy.
We should have thought of that.
But, um, but then also some ofthem like the ampersand, some of
them like A N D spelled out.
So probably the easiest way.
We've got links to all thedifferent locations just from
the website that can get youstarted and pointed in the right

(01:00:33):
direction.
Then you can subscribe fromthere.

Steph Barron Hall (01:00:36):
Perfect.
All right.
I will link it in the show notesand everyone can check out your
awesome podcast.

Missy (01:00:42):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
This

so much for joining me.

Susanne (01:00:46):
And you know what?
I got to tell you, just, um, Ithink still your podcast is one
of, uh, if not number one in thetop two of our all time listened
to podcasts.
Yes.
So yeah, people love, love theEnneagram.
They loved you.
Um, so it was a really great wayto start off our, our journey

(01:01:08):
together.
It's kind of fun to have you,uh, reconnecting after.
You were, you helped us getstarted off on the right foot,
so we appreciate that.

Of course.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for joining me.
Thanks so much for listening toEnneagram IRL.
If you love the show, be sure tosubscribe and leave us a rating
and review.
This is the easiest way to makesure new people find the show.
And it's so helpful for a newpodcast like this one, if you
want to stay connected.
Sign up for my email list in theshow notes or message me on

(01:01:38):
instagram at nine types co totell me your one big takeaway
from today's show I'd love tohear from you.
I know there are a millionpodcasts you could have been
listening to, and I feel sograteful that you chose to spend
this time with me.
Can't wait to meet you rightback here for another episode of
any grim IRL very soon.
The Enneagram and real lifepodcast is a production of nine

(01:02:01):
types co LLC.
It's created and produced byStephanie Barron hall.
With editing support fromBrandon Hall.
And additional support fromcrits collaborations.
Thanks to dr dream chip for ouramazing theme song and you can
also check out all of theirmusic on spotify

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