The Black Enneagram, Cultural Nuance, and Advocacy with Dayo Ajanaku, Type 1

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dayo (00:00):
I think one thing I've struggled with as a one who's

(00:02):
not, I don't connect with myheart a lot.
Like the idea of being told inany game circles, like you can't
live with that.
Like, like I think I'm going touse the word armor.
You can't live with that armorall the time.
You have to just let it justlive, be free.
Like that's not realistic for meas a black woman.
Like I've already seen ways inwhich I've attempted to do that.
And that's not worked out wellfor me.

(00:22):
That isn't always safe to do incertain settings and with
certain people, sometimes thearmor is necessary, um, because
you don't know if it's a safespace or not.
Hello and welcome to Enneagramin Real Life, the podcast where
we explore how to apply ourEnneagram knowledge in our daily

(00:44):
lives.
I'm your host, Stephanie BarronHall, and on today's episode, I
am talking to Dao from the BlackEnneagram.
DIO is a lifelong studentfocused on bringing joy and
justice to the world.
She is the owner and founder ofthe Instagram page, the Black
Enneagram, where she offersbasic Enneagram education
through black culture and blackimages.

(01:05):
The black Enneagram combines herlove of the Enneagram black
culture, entertainment, andChristianity with the purpose of
increasing self-awareness,growth, and relational health.
Specifically in the blackcommunity.
She regularly engages issues offaith, justice, self-awareness,
love, and unapologetic joy.
The black Enneagram is a safehaven for all people, regardless

(01:27):
of racial identity, who want togrow in the kind of godly
self-love that overflows intolove for all.
In this episode, Dio and Idiscussed her.
Process of starting and growingher Instagram page as well as
the past few years of her life,which were spent in law school.
Um, so she was in California inlaw school And so we just talked
all about that process and whatit's like for her as a one to

(01:51):
show up online and, you know,the different things that people
say or the different types offeedback that we get, and what
is so important to her aboutshowing different things like,
um, TV characters or things likethat, um, in her Instagram
posts.
We also discussed her process offiguring out her subtype, which
I think is really helpfulbecause I've had a few different

(02:12):
ones on the podcast recently,and I always think it's helpful
to hear a little bit more abouteach of their subtypes and how
we can kind of differentiatethem.
I also really appreciate DIA'sperspective, um, thinking about
justice in a very literal termbecause she's a lawyer.
So, um, I loved hearing from herabout that.
And in fact, I believe when wewere recording this, she was

(02:33):
finishing up law school and shewas preparing to take the bar,
And so it was just kind of a, acrazy time for her, but you'll
also get to hear a little bitmore about her perspective and,
um, what it's like to be insidethe mind of a one when things
might be a little bit stressful,um, but they're still just kind
of plugging along and trustingthe process, which I really
appreciate about her.

(02:54):
So I hope you'll enjoy thisepisode.
Everything that you need to knowabout Daio and her Instagram
page will be linked in the shownotes as usual.
and then one quick FYI or, uh,announcement I guess, um, is
over the summer 2025, I will beon maternity leave, so I will be
returning in the fall.
However, I have uploaded podcastepisodes to be released every

(03:17):
other week throughout the entiresummer.
So you won't be without apodcast for your summer road
trips or whatever you're doing,but I have a lot of fun ones
coming up.
Including a podcast about.
Conflict mediation in which ourguests learned so much from
Nelson Mandela himself, which isso fascinating.
A podcast about human design,one about the Enneagram and

(03:37):
money, more podcasts from sixes,and then other underrepresented
types that I've mentioned, likea type two coming later in the
summer.
So I am really looking forwardto sharing all of those awesome
interviews with you, and I hopeyou'll enjoy your summer as I'm
working in a very differentcapacity, uh, for these next few
months.
So that's enough about what I'mup to.

(03:58):
Without further ado, here's myconversation with dio.

Stephanie Barron Hall (04:01):
Well, Dio, welcome to the podcast.

Dayo (04:04):
thank you for having me.

I am so happy to talk with you.
It's actually kind of funny.
I love you.
Um, and I was like, man, Ireally have not interviewed
once.
So I started reaching out totons of ones.
And now my whole like, you know,all of the podcasts that I've,
I've recorded recently have beenwith one.
So that's really fun.

Dayo (04:23):
Okay, okay, that's good to know.
That's really good to know.

Yeah.
well, I'm curious to hear alittle bit more about your
background, um, and tell ourlisteners a little bit about
yourself and what you've been upto the last couple of years.

Dayo (04:36):
Right.
So, um, my name is Dayo Janakuand I am the, like, face behind
the Black Enneagram.
Um, I started the BlackEnneagram in 2020, I believe it
was 2020.
Um, And, yeah, that was justbirthed from this desire to,
like, see more Black people inthe Enneagram space, like, as
both, like, real deep teachersand also as, like, just more

(04:59):
fun, whimsical, silly teachers,um, and me wanting to kind of,
like, hone in on that space formyself as, like, a more fun,
less serious Enneagram teacher.
Like, spreader of knowledge.
I don't want to call myself ateacher.
I don't think I'm at that leveljust yet.
But, yeah.
Um, I'm currently in the processof getting certified through the
narrative tradition, which isreally, really fun.

(05:20):
It's a very slow process becauseanother thing that's been
happening the past couple yearshas been me being in law school.
Um, which I'm finally finishedwith.
I have like a week left, andthen I'm graduating.
So, it's been a journey.
Um, but yeah, I'm originallyfrom Houston, Texas.
I live out in the Bay Area now.
Um, and I came out here for lawschool, so I'm planning on
staying here long term.

(05:41):
So yeah, it's a little bitbackground, a little bit about
myself.
Anything else you want me toshare?

No, I think that's great.
Um, I think it.
One thing that made your accountreally different was one, you
like drew the little characters,but also you did a lot of posts
about TV characters, which wasfun.
And I'm curious what inspiredthat.

Dayo (06:02):
Always had like a very strong love for television and
movies.
I think it's just the big leaguetelevision, but like some, some
movies capture, capture myattention, but it's mostly
television.
Um, yeah, I'm like, uh, I don't,I didn't realize this until
literally this year that I'm adeep introvert.
I think a reason why I don't,didn't realize that is because I
kind of saw, I can, I can makenot real people, my friends.

(06:24):
And that's kind of what I didwas like, I was able to like
super identify with certaincharacters on TV.
So I never really felt like Iwas by myself or like alone.
I was like, Oh, I have, I havethese characters in these books
and these TV shows.
And so a lot of my time when Ihad free time was spent watching
television.
And also like growing upNigerian, I didn't really, I
wasn't really, Yeah.
What is the word?

(06:45):
Exposed to like black televisionif that makes sense.
Like I think that's somethingpeople don't really realize is
that Nigerian Americans andAfrican and black Americans are
raised very differently.
And so it was also like meteaching myself black culture
almost.
Cause people would ask me like,Oh, have you seen this show?
Have you seen that show?
And I would say, no, like Ididn't grow up on that.

(07:05):
I grew up on like Disney andNickelodeon and all this, like
things that we all watch, butall like the classics I had
missed out on.
And so a lot of my like collegeyears was me catching up on the
culture.
So I think that's why I did it.
Cause one, I wanted to kind ofteach myself how, like, what it
looks like.
What, what, what, what am Itrying to say?
Like kind of like teach myself,like the different characters

(07:29):
that like the media portraysblack people as, and then like.
Change that almost like myinitial intention.
I think the reason why I'm goingdown this tangent is because my
initial intention for law schoolwas to become an entertainment
attorney.
And so I've seen a lot of black,like actors, actresses be
treated very poorly, get baddeals.
And so like, if I'm going to bein this field, this field, it

(07:50):
makes sense for me to understandand see, and know the history
behind the work that they'vebeen doing.
And so.
It was a combination of likepractical career stuff and then
also like personal passion, um,of just like really enjoying and
really connecting withcharacters.
Like there are a few people,there are a few people in the
world who like can, like, they,they so deeply resonate with the

(08:11):
character that the characterlike dies and it happens to
them.
Like they feel it in their body.
Like I'm one of those people.
And so I think the fact thatthat was like, so easy for me to
access, it was like, this is, itjust makes sense to use these
characters as, you know, Myarchetypes for the end again.
So, yeah,

Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
And I think it's kind ofinteresting because I remember
even just seeing debates, a lotof the shows that you, um,
posted about, I had no idea,like, and actually, to be
honest, I don't remember likehardly any shows.
Like I remember Recess,

Dayo (08:44):
Yeah.
Right.

or like even Nickelodeon like really at
all We didn't have cable.
So I watched like Nova,

Dayo (08:57):
Okay.

Kratt Brothers, like, I don't know,
you know, whatever was not oncable.
Um, so, but it was interestingto read the comments and see how
people were debating, like, Oh,I think it's this type, I think
it's this type.
And it's not necessarily thatsome people know more about the
Enneagram than others, whichsometimes, yes, but It's also

(09:18):
like our own perspectives,

Dayo (09:20):
Exactly.
That's very

and I think that's insightful.

Dayo (09:24):
Yeah.

If you're comfortable, I'm curious if you
can share a little bit moreabout what you mean about how
Nigerian Americans are raiseddifferently from black
Americans.

Dayo (09:33):
I mean, I think having like the, what is the word?
Like, cause for example, like myfamily, my parents, were born in
Nigeria.
They grew up on the culture ofNigeria.
I was born there, but I grew upon the culture of America.
Kind of, they, they like, werevery adamant on instilling like
Nigerian culture with us, but Ifeel like because they come from

(09:55):
a different context.
The way that they raise us isthey raise us in that context.
Like, like as if we're stillthere.
They kind of have this mentalityof like, what is the word?
Like one of the big values inNigerian culture is like
education.
So like you'll see a lot ofNigerian Americans in like high
places, like they're doctors,they're lawyers, they're in
politics.
Like they are They are like thepredominant community in like

(10:19):
very prestigious places becauseeducation is such a big.
Thing like we don't, I think Iwas also raised with that
mindset of like, I think Iremember telling my dad one
time, like, Oh, look, I can't dothat because, you know, I'm
black.
So black people can't do that.
And he was like, where did youlearn that?
Like, where, who taught youthat?
That's not a thing that we, wedon't believe that that's kind
of the way that he was, heframed it for me is we don't

(10:40):
believe that.
And so I grew up with thatmindset.
I grew up not seeing.
My race, my ethnicity, my raceas a like limiting block, um,
because they didn't have theydidn't in Nigeria.
Who's who's saying?
Oh, you're not doing like we'reall we're all black.
Like we're we all have theability to rate to like, you
know, ascend to certain, youknow, statuses without our race

(11:02):
or color being a hindrance tothat.
Um, and so I think because theywere raised in that context,
they raised us in that context,kind of.
Um, and so we have a verydifferent experience.
Now there are obviously a lot ofblack Americans who have a very
similar emphasis on educationbelief that, you know, their
race doesn't limit them.
But I think there's, it was justso pronounced to me to see how,
like, it was almost like out ofbody for my dad to hear me say

(11:25):
that because it's so it's not.
It's not the mentality, themindset that he had.
And so he didn't want us to alsohave that mindset.
I think that's one of the verymany ways that we're different,
but I think that's one of theways that I could think of right
now that we're just kind ofraised with in general, uh, like
a different mentality.
Yeah.

sounds a lot like a lot of the other
immigrant experiences I've.
Um, and I think that that isalso really unique as well, um,
because I'm sure you can relateto a lot of people like, I don't
know, like I, I listened to likeRamit Sethi a lot, who is, he
talks about how like his familyis like, you can be a doctor, a

(12:07):
lawyer, a failure, like thatwhole thing.
And it sounds really similar toother Nigerian Americans I've
heard discuss this.

Dayo (12:14):
Right.
Right.

that's really insightful.
Um, okay.
Tell us about how you found outabout the Enneagram.

Dayo (12:20):
So I actually learned about the intergame in a
Christian context.
Um, I was going to church.
I was in college my last year ofcollege, I believe, or maybe
second to last, but I was incollege and I was in church and,
you know, college years just,you're going through so much
like identity searching and notreally knowing who you are, what
you want to do.
Um, and so I had a friend namedHannah, who was part of my

(12:41):
church.
And she was like, I, I, I, in myhead, I saw her as like a
mentor.
She's more just a friend, morejust a friend, but I held her to
that esteem of like mentor.
And so I would talk to her aboutthings that I was going through
as a college student.
She was much, much older than Iwas.
And she was really into theEnneagram.
So she taught me, she's like,not taught me, but she like
introduced it.

(13:01):
Like, I think you should lookinto this.
This could be very helpful foryou.
That was like, what, 22, 23 atthe time I was like very young,
but I loved, I love personalitytests.
Like I, I, you know, the MyersBriggs, I got knew my Zodiacs,
like all the things that willtell me who I am and why I am
the way that I am, I gravitatetowards, so I latched onto the
Enneagram like for dear life.
Cause like, I really, I havenever felt so seen and heard and

(13:24):
understood.
I think when I was finding mytype.
It felt very instinctual.
Um, for me, it was like, Oh,this is me.
Like, I think a lot of peoplesay like, you know, what's your
type.
If you don't like what you hear,but for me, for me, it was like,
I've already heard all thesethings about myself and I've
already, I already feel thesethings about my, all the bad
stuff.
I already feel these things.
Just like I'm getting newinformation.

(13:44):
Like, this is just, this is justa part of who I am.
I've been, I haven't reallyembraced it, but I've gotten
used to this narrative of, Oh,she's uptight and perfectionist
and all these, yeah.
So I just kind of.
Gravitated towards the end againbecause I felt very Validated
through it.
I think that's the perfect wordfor it.
I felt very validated through itfor sure.

Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Um, and then I'm curious to hearhow you kind of like started
your Instagram from therebecause, you know, a lot of us
find our Enneagram type and alot of people don't go and, you
know, start posting online.
I mean, I don't know, you know,I did the same thing, but I'm

(14:26):
just curious.

Dayo (14:27):
Yeah.
So again, I was in college and Ithink this was definitely my
senior year.
During my senior year, we wereasked to do a project in my,
cause I was a business major, weactually do a project in my
creativity and innovation andbusiness class, I think that's
what it's called.
And the project was basicallylike to.
Come up with an idea, a projectthat was like novel, never been
done before.
No, one's doing it.
And that's a very difficultthing to do in like 2020, 2020.

(14:49):
I think it was 2020 when this

Yes.

Dayo (14:52):
so much has already been created, has been done, but as I
was like getting deep divinginto the Enneagram, I was
realizing that a lot of theaccounts that I was following
were white women and I was like,Oh, I don't, where are the
black, black girls or the blackmen, where are they?
And I was like, you know what,this is perfect for my project.
So I decided to create.
The Instagram page for school.

(15:13):
And then, um, I kept talking topeople about it and they were
like, no, you should continue,you should keep doing it, even
though, you know, I've gotten myA.
So I'm like, I don't really needto continue this, but it felt
like it started to kind ofbecome like a passion.
Like I really want to do this asfun for me now.
Um, it's not just for the grade.
It's like, no, this is actually.
In real life needed.
Um, so yeah, shout out to thatprofessor for that amazing

(15:35):
assignment, because I don'tthink that we really think about
like what, what really ismissing from the world.
And how can I, I call myselflike a professional gap filler.
Like even my desire to go to lawschool was because I was like,
we're all the black girllawyers.
Like, where are we?
Um, and so I was like, I'm goingto do it.
I'm just going to be the one tojoin the forces because I can't,
I'm not, I don't know.

(15:55):
I just feel like that's, that'sa natural thing as a part of my
personality, that reformer in meof like, things are not as they
should be.
How can I be a part of the thingthat fixes it?
So, yeah.
Right.

because, um, I think, I mean, this is
just my perspective, but like,the more you make space, like,
and the more that you show up inthat space, the more you pave
the way for, like, more Blackwomen or Black content creators
or whatever.
Um, Who are not like this, Imean, I'm so white.
I feel like could be a totalhashtag.

(16:29):
So, like, I think that, like,creating more space paves the
way so that more people can findit.
Because even in my experience, Iwork in a lot of cross cultural
context using the Enneagram, um,with like, teams and stuff.
And I think it's so useful tohave other insights that are not
from my perspective and torecognize that.
I'm bringing a bias to this.

(16:50):
Everyone brings a bias to it.
Um, so like, let's put that outin the open and see how your
experience differs.
I think that's so important.

Dayo (16:58):
yeah, yeah.
I definitely agree.
I think that's something thatI'm hoping to, to really get,
because I feel like it's hard toreally put a pin on how being
black changes my expression ofmy oneness.
Like, I think it's hard to like,figure that out.
And I think that that's going totake a lot of research, a lot of
like, polling, figuring out howpeople like, view their self

(17:20):
with their blackness and theirEnneagram type.
Like, I feel like it's a, it's avery.
I would have to, like, go toschool for, like, psychology
and, like, Africana studies.
Like, I would have to basicallycreate this whole creating and,
like, be entering.
I'm certified in all thesedifferent places for me to
truly, truly, like, see how thedifferences show up.
Because I think that it's there.
I think that I'm able toarticulate it on an instinctual
level.
But I think one of the blindspots with that instinct is,

(17:42):
like, are you logically thinkingthrough this?
Like, is this true for everyone?
Um, and so, yeah, that's been achallenge for me for sure.
But I think that's it's verytrue.
Like, I think Instinctually, weknow that there's a difference,
but the tangible results of thatis hard to see sometimes.
Yeah,

Stephanie Barron Ha (17:58):
absolutely.
And I think too, you know, evenworking with, for example, like
the sexual force subtype invarious different cultures, it's
like, Oh wow, this expressesreally differently.
Um, and so

Dayo (18:10):
Wow,

sure even for the one, you know, as well,
though, it does sound like thereare some ways that that.
Well, natural because there wasa sense of perfection that was
kind of expected of

Dayo (18:21):
right, right, for sure, yeah.
Yeah, reading, I don't know ifyou've read Chi Chi's book, um,
The Intergang for BlackLiberation, but that book is a
great starting point for seeingthe nuances and the differences.
She talks about, um, Nigerianculture being an eight culture,
um, and I think that is veryaccurate and I think that it
goes very, it goes, it workswith the type one because the

(18:43):
type one wants to avoid theeight energy almost, like, I
don't want the, I don't wantthe, the challenge, I don't want
this, I don't want the struggle,I just want.
What I want, I want it to bedone the way that I want it to
be done.
And so I feel like, I feel likeI have a type eight father.
I think I'm not completely surebecause he, I don't think he
would take the test, but I thinkI have a type eight dad.
And so I can see how coming fromthat culture, the one wants to

(19:06):
just like comply almost, um,even though I'm not an eight, I
can, I can definitely see how myoneness, what is the word
compliments that eight culturefor sure.

Yeah, absolutely.
And I think there also could belike that part where you're
saying, like the gap fillermentality of being like, I'm
going to find some gap and I'mgoing to change this, you know,
because that can be the onereformer, but it can also be a
bit of that, like eight kind ofmaverick mentality.
We talked about,

Dayo (19:35):
No, I like that.
I didn't think about that.
I like that.
Yeah.

that, that book as well is just so
good.
I really like the way that ChiChi writes about armor.
And I think that that's a reallygood framing.
And I also just think that herperspective of like looking at
the social, um, kind ofenvironment more broadly, I
think is really useful.

Dayo (19:57):
I agree.
I agree.
I think that I appreciate thatperspective because I think one
thing I've struggled with as aone who's not, I don't connect
with my heart a lot.
Like the idea of being told inany game circles, you can't live
with that.
Like, like I think I'm going touse the word armor.
You can't live with that armorall the time.
You have to just let it justlive, be free.
Like that's not realistic for meas a black woman.

(20:20):
Like I've already seen ways inwhich I've attempted to do that.
And that's not worked out wellfor me.
So I appreciate Chi Chi, like,like acknowledging that.
That isn't always safe to do incertain settings and with
certain people, um, andrespecting that.
Sometimes the armor isnecessary, um, because you don't
know if it's a safe space ornot.
So yeah, I really, I, that bookwas, is amazing for sure.

Yeah.
And then she goes and createsspaces for

Dayo (20:47):
Yeah.

Black women to do

Dayo (20:49):
Right, exactly I

what about your subtype journey?
How did you find your subtype?

Dayo (20:58):
don't remember to be honest.
I know i'm i know i'mpredominantly like social I
think the sexual and the selfpress switches depending on the
situation Um, but i'm definitelysocial like I think that that's
something that I haven't thoughtabout it in a while Because we
were talking about earlier howlong i've been away from My
instagram and the interviewingspace.
It's been a quite some timebecause like having difficulty

(21:19):
Difficulty juggling both lawschool and, um, the indie game
space.
But what I remember, I feel likemy social, the way I, the reason
why I knew I had a socialinstinct is because I'm very
like, what is the word?
I'm very, it's like I want theworld to change.
Like I want, I want to change,but I also want the world to
change.
I want the world to be better.

(21:40):
Um, I think sometimes I approachthat in a way that's very like
finger pointing and very like,like, I don't know what the word
is.
That's like, I haven't.
Had this language in myrepertoire for a while, so I
don't think I'm articulating itwell But yeah, I just feel like
social was just instinctually itfelt the other two definitely
didn't feel instinctually Rightwhen I was reading about them
for the one.
Um, because I don't really needthat.

(22:02):
I don't need one person I feellike oh, okay now i'm thinking
about it Using that language ofI don't need that one person
helps me realize that the reasonwhy I think I'm social was
because of how importantcommunity was for me or is for
me.
I remember when I first movedhere, I was like really
struggling because I didn't havea community.
Um for a whole year just liketrying to figure out like where

(22:23):
are my people and I finallyfound my people but it Took me
so long That like I thinkbecause that's that's my default
is like to have a group likehaving one person's not enough
Like I need to have a group Ofpeople no matter where i'm at
and I didn't I didn't get toform that in my law school That
also made my law schoolexperience not very positive as
well So it's like i'm realizingthat for me to to thrive in

(22:44):
certain spaces.
I have to be in You A community,I have to have a tribe, a group
of people.
Um, and yeah, I think that's,that's what I can remember right
now about how the social, socialself present one to one come
together, but yeah, sorry, it'sbeen a minute.

How did you find your people?

Dayo (23:05):
Church, honestly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I was trying a lot tofind them in law school and it
just was not working.
Um, yeah, I think there's likea, there was like a values.
difference for me with my law,with my fellow law students.
Um, cause I don't know if youknow, but like the legal
industry is a very like drinkingheavy, party heavy industry.

(23:27):
Um, because they work so hard,they want to like let loose.
And I appreciate that.
I understand that.
But I think for me, my idea oflike fun was more wholesome.
And I feel like, yeah, churchwas just the best place to find
wholesome folks who just like,want to like have picnics and,
you know, have a movie night andtalk throughout the night.
Like, just like something that'sstrenuous to like the mind and

(23:49):
the body.
Um, so yeah, I found them atchurch.
A lot of them, um, share my samevalues.
And one thing I really enjoyedabout being in the Bay Area is
that church here is verydifferent from church in the
South.
I used to live in Houston.
It's very different from churchin the South because there's
more of like an open handednessand more of like an accepting,
inclusive energy that I didn'treally experience in the South.

(24:11):
Um, Yeah, like there's more roomfor questioning and exploring
that I don't think I've everseen a church like be open to.
So yeah, it was just like theperfect timing for when I found
them and yeah, they have beenmy, my rock, my saving grace.
I just finished, I just cameback from hanging out with one
of my friends from church.
So it's, yeah, it's been, it'sbeen great.

Yeah, I think that's so important.
And I think even for, you know,so I, uh, resonate most with
like a social, uh, repressedactually, um, and so it's kind
of interesting for me because Idon't always seek out community,
but I can really tell when Idon't have it.
And I'm missing that.
Um, Yeah, so that, that makessense.

(24:52):
And I think, you know, justthinking about a few other
things about the social and I'mcurious how these resonate with
you.
Um, but my perspective, justbeing like fellow Instagram
person back in the day, likewe're both like semi retired
now, I suppose.
Um, don't, don't tell anyone Isaid that.

(25:13):
No, um, but like.
You come across as like, I'mdoing the right thing, like,
but, but not, it's very much themodeling characteristic of the
social.
It's not, um, I know you said itfeels finger pointy, but that
was not my experience of youjust like observing.
Um, and then another piece isthat you are very cerebral.

(25:35):
And I think that that is howsocial subtypes or the social
one in particular is.
Um, and that makes sense to

Dayo (25:41):
Yeah.
Okay, okay.
I appreciate that.
That makes sense.

Yeah, I'm curious if you see your oneness
show up in like your desire todo law, like, what interests you
about that.

Dayo (25:56):
That's a good question.
I think, because I have awingtoo, and the one wingtoo's
like, name is The Advocate.
Because like, as a one, you,you're trying to make change,
but like, you want to makechange in a way that's helpful
as a one wing too.
And I think that for me, Ilooked at like my skills, my,
even my decision to become anattorney instead of doing

(26:18):
something else, I reallywrestled with this decision all
through college of like, am Idoing it for myself?
Am I doing it for my dad?
Like my dad really wanted me tobe an attorney because I think
he wanted to be an attorney, buthe couldn't.
So he was like, I need one of mykids needs to fulfill this dream
for me.
And I was the lucky one.
And so I took.
to kind of really think aboutwho I want for myself.
And I thought about like whatskills do I possess and reading

(26:39):
and writing was really high forme.
Um, throughout my, my school, mycollege experience.
Um, but really it's like that,that desire to like, see things
be equitable and fair has beenlike a through line throughout
my entire life.
Like, I think it's a pattern oflike, no matter where I'm, where
I'm at, what I'm doing, like,it's, I, I'm always trying to
ensure that like, everyonefeels, feels represented,

(27:02):
everyone feels seen, everyonefeels like they're getting.
the fair end of the stick.
Um, and I think that I'm realafter being in law school for
three years, I'm realizing thatit's a lot more complicated than
that.
Um, because powers that be, youknow what I mean?
All these, there's so manycontrolling factors that make it
very difficult for justice to beachieved.
But yeah, I think that's what Icame into law school with the

(27:25):
mentality of is like, how can Iuse my presence to create
fairness and equity for thepeople who I'll either serve in
the future or who I'm in schoolwith?
Like, that's been a big, Bigthing for me.
Um, so yeah, I think thatreformer piece of like
representation of representationand wanting people to see
themselves in either a tool orin the law.

(27:48):
Like, that really has been thereason that was a big reason why
I went to law school was becauseI was like, I wanted to see.
More people who look like medoing big things.
I don't know, like, like thatwas, yeah.

I saw a stat recently, and it could be
totally wrong, but that it waslike 2 percent of lawyers in the
US are black women or somethinglike that.

Dayo (28:10):
That's it.
It's accurate.
Yeah.

is so incredibly small.

Dayo (28:16):
incredibly small.
I think like 5 percent are blackin general, but yeah, black
women is only 2%.
Yeah, it's difficult.
I, I understand the desire notto step into the field.
It is, it is still like verydominated by people who don't
look like us, who don't thinklike us.
And so.
You are kind of throwingyourself into the lion's den,

(28:38):
honestly, when you make thiskind of commitment, but you
know, someone has to do it, Iguess.
So, yeah.

I have a friend who like started a
startup cause she worked at allthese tech companies and she was
like, I am so used to being theonly black woman in the room.
And so she started like acompany around that.
Um,

Dayo (28:57):
I love that.

so I'm curious if you can share a
little bit, if you'recomfortable about your inner
critic and what that looks likefor the social one, because I
think a lot of the time selfpreservation one, the way that
that inner critic plays out is alot more how it's discussed.
And

Dayo (29:18):
Right.
I feel like for me in thebeginning, I didn't, I wasn't
able to decipher between myinner critic and like the quote
unquote Holy spirit.
Like I thought that that was oneperson.
Um, It was like a very toxicrelationship that I had with my

(29:38):
faith for a long time.
Cause I was like, it's likeconstant, you're doing it wrong,
fix it.
Like you need to, you know, youneed to get it together type of
energy.
And it's like, this doesn't,this doesn't feel correct.
Something is off here.
And as I, when I took a, I tooka step back, like when, when
church was like closed and youknow, the pandemic was going on,
that was kind of my chance tolike really take a step back
from.
All of the religious doings thatI was doing, um, to really

(30:01):
figure out like what exactly isthis doing for me?
How is this exactly growing me?
And at the same time I waslearning about the enneagram And
so I started to realize Ithought I was I was starting to
be able to separate my innercritic and My and the holy
spirit's voice I start to dothat much easier.
I think that today I I a part ofme doesn't fully resonate

(30:23):
anymore with the inner criticnot because I don't hear it But
it's because like a part of mecan talk to her now Can I
because I because i'vedeciphered it from this
religious being I now have moreaccess to like Oh, like that
isn't true.
Like i've noticed myself Inmoments when I'm like down
spiraling, where I like catchmyself and I speak back to the
voice.
Um, and I think that has been a,like a very helpful tool and

(30:45):
it's kind of honestly, It getsher less power when she's
talking because I'm like no likeat the end of the day I'm in the
driver's seat like you have youcan be in the back you can be in
the trunk You just can't be inthe driver's seat Um, I think
that's been that's been helpfulBut I think in general when I
think of my inner critic likeyou're you were insinuating
before it's like a very beratingmean Like hateful voice.

(31:09):
Um, I think it comes out themost when I'm like, cause I'm,
I'm newly in a relationship andI'm, I'm noticing that it's
coming out now.
Like it's, I'm yeah, I'm justlike, I'm just in a very, a
struggle when you're, when youhave that one inner critic in
you, because then you, it spillsout onto other people.
Like it's very difficult to notbe like, to not like embody the

(31:33):
inner critic and be the criticof someone else.
That's been a big challenge islike not allowing my inner
critic to be someone else's,like, you know, barometer for
like, what's good and bad.
Um, I honestly really want tosit down with a married type
one.
Like I want to ask them, how doyou do it?
Like, genuinely, how do you doit?
Cause I feel like I don't, it'slike, there's no one in the

(31:53):
world who is going to be thisperfect person that my inner
critic wants to be with.
Like there's no one who's goingto measure up to what she's
looking for.
Um, and so that makes itdifficult for me being in
situations, with me and being inrelationships.
Cause I'm like, well, she wantsthis perfect person.
No one exists who fits herstandards.
So what do I do with thatinformation and how do I

(32:14):
reconcile those two things?
I'm not sure if I answered yourquestion, but that's kind of
what I was thinking about on theline, along the lines of the
inner critic is like onedeciphering between the Holy
Spirit and my inner critic,making quote unquote, not
friends with her, but like kindof asserting power over her
almost.
And then like noticing it,noticing her come back and

(32:35):
seeing.
Ways in which she's harming, Imean, it's still me, but it's
like, I'm harming other people.
Um, because my inner critic hasbeen so loud and I'm so like, I
think for me relationships,cause my sexual, um, instinct is
so low.
Um, I have, I have troubledesiring like one on one
partnership.
Like, it's like, I I'm likefighting.

(32:56):
It's like a war in my head oflike, do I even really need
this?
Like, do I even need this?
Like, it doesn't feel like anecessity to me.
Um, I think the inner critic is,like, helping me self sabotage,
honestly.
She's helping me to ruin thispotentially really good thing
because she's like, well, do weeven need this?
Like, is this even a necessityin our life?
Because, you know, all the stuffthat relationships come with,

(33:17):
you know, are much easier whenyou're, in my opinion, by
yourself.
Um, and that's something thatshe's explicitly told me is
like, life will be just besingle.
You would be fine.
You'd be happier.
You'd be at peace and everythingwould be great.
But I'm, that's not true.
Like, I mean, to an extent, yes,we can be happy on our own, but
like, another part of me doesdesire a partnership and I'm

(33:38):
like having to play this, thiswar, this game with her to
figure out what do I actuallywant?
So, yeah.

Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really interesting.
I like that image that you gaveus about, you know, putting
saying you can be in thepassenger seat, you can be in
the trunk, like you can ride ontop of the car, but you can't be
in the driver's

Dayo (33:57):
Right.
Right.
Right.

And I think that's useful because a
lot of the time we hearinstruction to ones like just
fight back or just like tunnelshut up.
And I've actually heard frommost ones that is not very
helpful.
Um, and taking more of aperspective of like, we're
friends.
You know, I'm driving here, I'molder and wiser than you are,

Dayo (34:18):
Right.

you know, maybe we're not even friends
sometimes,

Dayo (34:21):
Yeah.

you know, you can still speak up, you can
do whatever you want, but I'mgonna drive.

Dayo (34:27):
Yeah, yeah.
No, yeah, exactly.
Okay.

So you mentioned that you can be
critical of this person that youare dating.
And, um, I recently had Sam andLindsay and I don't remember
their last names, but they'relike the sexpert people.
Um, I interviewed them for thepodcast.
So I think that that one willhave already released when we
release this one.

(34:53):
Um, so yeah.
But they talked about how whenyou're new in a relationship, a
lot of the time, the sexualinstincts will rise up to the
top, which is interestingbecause I've heard a lot of
people say, Oh, well, when I wasdating, I was sexual, but now
I'm like this other

Dayo (35:07):
Oh, interesting.

and so.
The way that you described, likecriticizing that other person
feels, I mean, socials and selfpress still criticize other
people, but like the sexuals doit the most, like sexual
instinct people, um, do that themost in terms of ones.
And I wonder if there's like alittle bit of that coming up,
but then your social instinct islike, Oh, hold on.
No, no, no.

Dayo (35:31):
Yeah.
I never thought about that.
I appreciate that perspective.
Yeah.
I think that might be what'sgoing on is like, my sexual is
trying to, like, I don't evenknow, maybe like protect me
protect the relationship.
Like, I don't know, maybe like aprotective instinct happening
there of like, we really careabout this person.
But like, the one in me is like,well, if you really care about
the person you want it to workneeds to be perfect.

(35:52):
So if he's going to be perfectand we have to make sure we hit
all, we find all the cracks inthe pavement, all the cracks in
the foundation, we point themout and we bring them to the
surface so that we can fix thecracks.
Um, but not everyone cares.
Like not anyone has that same.
Like desire, if that makessense, which is difficult for
ones.
Cause ones are like, well, weall see the problems.
Like we, they're everywhere.

(36:13):
They're rampant, but the otherpeople, the other person often
is just like, they're livingtheir life.
They're enjoying their life.
They're not as focused on theissues as I am.
Yeah.

And I think.
Sexual ones in particular tendto think.
Like, this is very subconscious.
So it's not always the way theyactually think, but it's like, I
deserve to have a perfectpartner.

Dayo (36:35):
Yes!

I deserve the ideal.

Dayo (36:41):
Yes! Absolutely.
And I, I've had to, like, fightmyself from that belief and be
like, no, like, I'm not evenperfect.
How dare I be expecting anotherhuman being to be perfect for
me?
Yeah, I, I resonate with thatvery deeply.
Wow.
Yeah.

That's so funny.
Cause to me, it sounds like, Iguess I think because I am like
the sexual instinct dominant,then I'm like, okay, well, I get
the looking for the idealpartner thing, but to me, it's
never about that person being aperfect person, but more like
perfect for me,

Dayo (37:15):
I love that.
Yeah.

um, which is unattainable by

Dayo (37:20):
Right.
That's awesome.

It's all unattainable when we're talking
about like being idealistic, but

Dayo (37:26):
Yeah, that's, I think that's been the biggest struggle
is like balancing that of like,you want someone who's going to
be good to you, kind to you, allthe basics, but like what, which
things are unrealistic toexpect, you know, from another
person who also has their ownstuff going on and has their own
life and has, you know, theirown history and background and
all these things.
Um, yeah, they don't exist formy, for my like fun and

(37:50):
pleasure.
Like they're their own entity.
Um, so that's been, it's beeninteresting to explore that for
sure.

Yeah.
It's not like a sitcom wherelike they cease to exist when
they're not in frame.
Yeah.

Dayo (38:01):
Exactly.
Exactly.

Um, that's so funny.
Okay.
I'm curious to hear a little bitabout the narrative Enneagram
and, um, what that process hasbeen like for you to kind of
explore that, why you chose thenarrative, all the things.

Dayo (38:17):
So the narrative, um, they actually reached out.
I think they reached out to me.
I don't remember how this cameabout, but they were offering a
scholarship, um, like acompletely free scholarship for
you to, for, um, I guess, BIPOC,um, students that wanted to
learn about the Enneagram.
And so I really didn't pay forthis, um, this program at all,
which has been very, veryhelpful.
And that's why I probably chosethem.

(38:38):
And they've also been really,really great about putting Like
their money and their, like,action behind their, like,
words.
Um, because they'll, like, a lotof organizations will say, like,
Oh, we care about, you know,inclusion, diversity, all these
things.
But then you look at, like,their staff, you look at who's
in the room and, like, there'sno one that looks like any,
like, it's like a monolith.
And the narrative tradition hasbeen very, very great about,

(39:02):
like, including more people, um,who look, who don't, who don't
fit the stereotypical, like, youknow, student.
Um, one thing I will say is thattowards the beginning, I think
when I was training In 2020,2021.
I mean, it's been a three yearprocess, but even in all those
classes, I was often maybe oneof like three black people.

(39:22):
And one thing I really loveabout the narrative tradition is
that they, when I would bringthat up and I would say, oh,
like, I'm, you know, I'm gonnacount.
I count every single room I walkinto, I'm counting.
I'm like, where are my people?
Are they in the room?
And I would, and I would bringup like, Oh, it's like kind of
difficult to be open.
I noticed that my, mywillingness to be like
emotionally open and vulnerablein this space is limited because

(39:45):
I don't see my people here.
Like I don't feel comfortable.
And they were very much receivedthat very, very well.
Um, and that made me continue tolike use their program and get
their, get the certificationfrom them.
Cause I felt like what I'msaying is probably very
difficult to hear.
Like they can't control, youknow, who takes their classes,
but they, Change like theychanged even certain wording in

(40:05):
their curriculum to like, makethe space feel more like more
inclusive and more inviting forpeople of color, like they
really just like put like theirfeet to the pavement and like
done the work and they've hiredmore people of color on like
their higher up team likethey've just been so good about
it.
And so I think for me, like,seeing that, seeing them take to
heart the feedback that they'veheard from BIPOC people who have

(40:27):
taken their classes has justbeen so like.
Affirming almost like I'm notcrazy like this.
I'm not asking for too much likethey also agree that we need
more people in this space whodon't who don't fit in the
stereotypical like any gamStudent and so yeah, I think
that's probably why I chosethem.

(40:47):
The experience has been greathas been great I've taken it
very very slow.
They allow you to get very veryslow Because I'm again juggling
a lot of things at once Yeah, Ithink the way that they teach is
very, someone who's not veryconnected to her heart, like,
I'm not, I just don't know howto access that, that part of me,

(41:08):
part of myself, being in thoseclasses, it really challenges me
to like, stay present.
Because my instinct and when I'mlike being fully challenged
emotionally is to just likewithdraw and like shut down and
just like not engage and I meanfor like we would have like
three day I think like weekendlong um classes from like nine

(41:28):
to five.
And it would just be feelingsand feelings.
And I'm like, I don't, I don'tlive here.
Like I don't live in the, in theheart.
I think the way that theyapproach the Enneagram is like
very, very heart centered, whichI love because you kind of have
to, if you don't approach itfrom a heart, from a heart
perspective, you're missing outon so much.
Um, but it really challenged my,like, my gut instinct of like.

(41:52):
We should run.
Like, we need to go.
This is hard.
This is not the easiest thing todo.
Um, and actually tapping into myheart and slowing down.
Like, that's something I'velearned from them as well, is
like the art of slowing down andlike, There'd be times when, if
I'm a very fast talker as youcan hear, there'd be times when
I would like be talking and I'dbe going so fast and they'd be
like, let's stay there.

(42:13):
I think that has stuck with mefor such a long time because I'm
like, I'm always trying to moveto the next thing.
I have, I have a lot of three inme as well.
Uh, we're all trying to move tothe next thing, do the next
thing.
I'm like very efficiency,productive, like that's kind of
my natural mode of being.
And they really taught me theart of like slowing down.
So yeah, it's been a goodexperience.
I'm currently in the I thinkinternship part where I'm like

(42:36):
going to be doing interviewswith people not interviews.
Yeah, typing interviews.
Yeah, typing interviews withpeople to help them figure out
their types.
And so I'm excited for that.
Probably going to start thatafter the bar because I don't
want to stress myself out.
Yeah, but yeah, that's kind ofwhere I'm at with it right now.
And it's been a greatexperience.
I would absolutely recommend itfor like anyone who's looking to

(42:57):
get certified in the Enneagram.

Yeah.
I love that.
That sounds really cool.
And I really appreciate thatthey took those opportunities to
like really address yourconcerns Because I think I mean
ethically morally they have todo that But like to meet their
bottom line, they don't have toyou know

Dayo (43:17):
don't.

And I appreciate that they decided
like yes This is worth doingbecause it absolutely is like
and I I have no interest indoing another enneagram
certification at this point, butI, that makes me want to go and
take their classes.

Dayo (43:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Oh, 1 other thing I wanted to mention
is how long these can take.
So the program that I did, um,you have a 2 year time limit.
So if you get outside of that 2years and you have to retake

Dayo (43:54):
Oh, shoot! Okay.

So it does, it is, it does impact the
cost, right, because it can becost prohibitive and if you have
to do all these different thingsover time, and it's a really
condensed timeframe, um, likemine took almost two years to
do, and I know other people who,you know, have taken, you know,

(44:17):
That long and it can bechallenging.
Um,

Dayo (44:20):
Yeah.

and so I'm curious how many, do you
remember the structure of it?
Like how many different weekendsdo you have and stuff like that?

Dayo (44:29):
I think there's about like there's like different topics
and you have to in order to goto the next topic you have to
finish a certain topic and Idon't really I don't think
there's a time limit I reallydon't I'm not sure if there is
but no one has imposed the timelimit on me um but yeah so
basically like they have anorder of classes that you have
to take and then you take them Ithink they're always like a
Friday, Saturday, Sunday likenine to five sometimes depending

(44:51):
on your you know obviously yourum time zone.
It'll be different, but like,it's kind of like that full day
for three days straight,straight.
I think I did it the way I didit was like, maybe like once
every quarter I took the class.
Um, and maybe it was like five,six classes that you need to
take before you can start your,before you can start your
internship, um, part of it.

(45:13):
And then the internship part is,um, you work on building
questions to conduct like, um,what do you call those?
Typing interviews with people?
Because the goal is to kind ofknow, kind of get familiar with
how the types look, how theyanswer questions, um, what kind
of questions to ask them to get,you know, the information that
you need.
Um.
Yeah, I think those are thethings I can remember.

(45:35):
It's been so long.
It's definitely been more thantwo years.
I don't even remember what.
Yeah, it's definitely been morethan two years.

Well, yeah, but that's useful.
I think even for people to hear,because even, you know, I have a
course that sometimes peopleHave asked me, Oh, is this a
certification?
And I know that there arecertifications that are under a
thousand dollars.
It takes six weeks to getthrough the material or even
less and you're done.
Um, and I think it's worthhearing how intensive a lot of

(46:03):
these Enneagram programs reallyare.
Mine was a different setup, butit still is intensive, right?
Like.
there's still quite a bithappening.
Um, but those are the peoplethat you want to teach you

Dayo (46:14):
exactly.

you have such a deep understanding and
deep knowledge and have had todo a lot of the work of like
formulating your approachyourself.

Dayo (46:22):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, they're, they're verythorough in the things that they
teach you and like why they'reteaching you it.
Um, they don't, they don't spendtoo much time on like things
that aren't like super relevant,like for like a beginner
learner.
Um, yeah.
They do a good job of giving youlike a good foundational base
knowledge for sure.
Yeah.

You mentioned that you have a lot of
three.
I'm curious how you know you'rea one versus a three.

Dayo (46:50):
Oh geez, that has been a long, a long journey.
That is, I, I feel like I'mstill kind of in the limbo of,
am I a three, am I a one?
I recently started watching thisshow called Insecure again for
the fourth time.
And one of the characters,Molly, I think is a three, but I
didn't really resonate with her.

(47:10):
I think a lot of people wouldsay like, oh, you're just like
Molly, you're just like Molly,you're just like Molly.
And I'm like, no, I'm not.
I don't see any of myself inthis woman.
Um.
And then I watched it again mostrecently.
And I'm like, Oh, I see whatpeople are saying.
Um, so I might be a three.
I don't know.
I'm not sure because I think, Ithink the more I get exposed,
this is why I like, I like what,like using television as like a

(47:31):
way to like mirror myself,because sometimes I think that I
seem to think I have like growwhen I get older, I start to
become more aware of where I'mactually at, like where am I,
my, um, personality is actuallyplaced in.
Um, so yeah, I'm not completelysure, but I think the reason why
I think I'm more.
One than three is that if I hadto choose like going fast to get

(47:56):
something done versus going slowand getting it done right, I
would choose going slow andgetting it done right.
I think that little difference,I think, I thought that was a
big thing that I'm like, I'mnot, I appreciate efficiency,
but like, if that means that Imight have to take like
shortcuts or like do it in a waythat's not going to look right,
or it's not as detail oriented,that just doesn't.

(48:18):
Sit well with me.
So I feel like that was one waythat I was like, okay, maybe i'm
not a three and then also thelike This is a stereotype this
is not like a all threes do thisbut like the The like aesthetic
like I have to always look goodI have to always look put
together like That isn'tsomething that I I mean, I I
feel like I naturally do it likeI don't have to put a lot of
effort It's just like a naturali'm not i don't want to I don't

(48:39):
want to walk out into the worldlooking a certain way But i'm
not Yeah, I'm not too worriedabout it.
Like I can walk out.
I've heard that people, I don'tknow if this is a three thing,
but like I remember hearing howpeople, some people don't feel
comfortable walking out thehouse without like some type of
makeup on and that has neverbeen a Thing for me, like it's
never been like a problem forme.
And that's like not a threething, but it's like something

(49:00):
that I feel like if I was moreimage conscious, I think I would
be like, yeah, active, full facebe every single day, like that
would my, my, my default.
But yeah, I feel like I'm stillfiguring it out though.
I'm so I'm still figuring it outand maybe you can help me, but I
think that that's probably thebiggest way that I know I'm not
a three.
Is that the shortcuts, like theChina find a faster.

(49:23):
Okay.
Easier way is not my default.
It's more so the, no, how can Ido this in a way that's, it's
going to get the job done.
I may have to go slower, butlike, if I'm going slow, that
means I'm being paying attentionto detail.
Um, and that's more important tome.
So yeah, I don't know.

That makes sense.
And I think, um, like the reasonI wanted to call that out is
because sometimes.
People talk about productivityand efficiency as if those,
those are only threecharacteristics, and they're
not.
A lot of us really enjoy that.
Um, and I, a couple of yearsago, actually, I, Somebody sent
me a children's book that theywrote.
It was very cute.

(50:01):
It was supposed to be about likeeach Enneagram type.
Um, and this one was supposed tobe, uh, just a single type.
And so I read through it and Iwas like, Oh my gosh, it's so
cute.
It's like all about all thesedifferent things.
And then I was like, this is acute book about type three.
And I read the author thing andit said it was supposed to be
about type one.
And I was like, Oh, no.

(50:21):
Um, because I think a lot of theperfectionism can be really
similar.
But what I think is the biggestdistinction is like where you
get your sense of accomplishmentand achievement.
And I think ones find that moreinternally.
And I find that threes find itmore like externally, like,

(50:42):
they're a lot more concernedabout how others perceive them,
how they seem to others.
Um, do other people think I'mdoing a good job?
Are they admiring me?
Do they respect me?
That sort of thing.
Also, ones I think can be a lotmore, um.
Productive

Dayo (50:59):
okay.

simply because you can, you have the
ability to be like, you knowwhat, it doesn't actually matter
how I feel about this right now.
Like, I'm just going to do it.
Right.
And, um, you definitely havethat, that ability.
I think I, threes don't havethat as much.
I don't think, um, threes have alot more of that connection to
the heart.
And they're like, I don't know.

Dayo (51:24):
That's actually very, very helpful.
That's very helpful.
I think that value pieces isprobably the most important
thing of like where you get thevalidation from the internal or
the external.
Um, yeah, I don't think I needpeople's external validation.
I actually don't like whenpeople, like, I feel like
obviously to an extent I likewhen people affirm me

(51:45):
externally, like it doesn't meanas much until I feel that way
for myself.
So, yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I'm sure that all likethrees also want to feel that
way for themselves at the end ofthe day,

yes,

Dayo (51:57):
have right, but I think my default is like do I think I'm
doing a job?
Like do I think I'm going todoing a good job like to my
standard of how I want to be howI want to show up in the world
like am I doing?
I've said a lot of times to mypartner like, you know, take it
or leave it.
This is who I am.
Like, I'm not really looking foryou to be like, Oh, you're such

(52:17):
a good girlfriend.
You just, I don't care.
If I'm being a good girlfriendmeans I have to abandon myself.
I am not doing this.
I'm not

I love that.

Dayo (52:26):
Yeah.
And so,

don't think you understand how healthy
that is.

Dayo (52:33):
yeah, I just, I just don't, I care about his
validation to an extent.
Like I think the minute itstarts to.
Make me feel like I'm losingmyself.
I think if I watched my parentshave that, that kind of dynamic,
I'm like, yeah, I'm not, I'm notfollowing in that footstep.
Sorry.

Yeah, yeah, I also think, you know,
when you're saying, oh we go, Igo to these events, and maybe
it's because I am older, so I'vehad a lot more experience, I
think, when I was 25, I wouldhave been like, ew, feelings,
gross.
But going to those like, youknow, five day long things where

(53:12):
you're just all in the fields,I'm like, Ooh, I love it.

Dayo (53:15):
Oh.

just like such a heart type

Dayo (53:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

I think that that can be like a big
difference.
Um, I think something that onesare really good at is thinking
about, do I have capacity forthis?
Like, this is something that Iteach a lot when I go into, um,
stuff because threes, Are justlike one of our most toxic
traits is thinking I can do fiveweeks worth of work in one

(53:42):
afternoon

Dayo (53:43):
no.

and we absolutely can't and then we
feel like a failure becausewe've made this mountainous
projection for ourselves andthen we can't actually
accomplish it.
Um, like I have been working ona project and my co Like my
colleague that I'm working on itwith, he was like, yeah, so to
do this part of that, you'regoing to need a whole team.
And I was like, Oh, I was goingto do that myself.

(54:08):
Like just not being realistic.
I think ones are a lot morerealistic about how much they
can actually accomplish and dowell in the timeframe given
without sacrificing their entirebody for it.

Dayo (54:20):
Exactly, exactly.
No, that's, honestly, that'smaking me think of, there was a
scene in the show that I waswatching, I referred to earlier,
Insecure, where Molly wassupposed to be going out to
Coachella with her friend.
And she like, Literally rightbefore she had to leave they
were like, oh who wants to helpwith xyz?
And she like volunteered herselfeven though she's on her way to
coach.
I was like never do that.
I'm not I'm, like look at I seethat as an opportunity For me to

(54:43):
get out and do what I want to doAnd then when I come back if
that if that project is stillavailable, then i'll take on
take it on but I I feel likeYeah, that was just a strange
kind of out of out of outer outof body like experience watching
her say When she clearly hadmade a commitment to her friends
already to like be

like my friend.
What are you doing?

Dayo (55:03):
then while she was on the vacation she couldn't even enjoy
it like she had to like I don'tknow that was just that was hard
for me to watch because like Idon't I don't think that that's
my default is to like Be likethe overachiever, like the, let
me, Oh yeah, I can do it.
I can do it.
I can do it.
Like, I feel like I'm very, I'mvery organized with the way that

(55:23):
I have my calendar and I've I'mso, I feel like I know how much
something takes me, how long ittakes me to do that.
I'm like, if I do all thesethings, it's probably going to
drain my energy.
And so I know how to say no.
That's one of my favorite wordsin the world is no.
And I think that sometimes couldcome off as like, I feel like I
can come off very mean and verylike, Oh, she's not selfless.

(55:46):
I'm not selfless.
Like I'm, I'm just really notselfless.
Like, I'm not going to putmyself in a position where like,
you want, you, you've asked forthis thing, but like, I'm going
to have to give it to you in away that's not good because I
didn't have the time to reallylike focus my attention on it.
So, yeah.

no.
Yeah.
I, uh, I looked up Molly, um,from insecure because I remember
I watched it, but I, I swear Ihave like movie amnesia or like
TV show amnesia.
Second, I'm done watching it.
I do not remember a singlething.
Um, so I was like, Oh yeah, I doremember thinking that Molly
feels like a three, but alsoshe's like, like kind of

(56:25):
insufferable

Dayo (56:26):
No, literally.
Literally.
No, that was why I was so, like,when people would say, like, oh,
you remind me of Molly, I'mlike, that's kind of
disrespectful.
Like, I'm not anything

mean, it's kind of rude.

Dayo (56:36):
can, I can see it.
I can see the, I think thatinsufferable part of her is the,
is part of her.
Maybe someone in her, that'slike, I want this to be a
certain way.
And when they don't, when theydon't show up the way that I
want it to show up or it doesn'thappen the way I want it to
happen, I'm gonna make it a bigdeal.
When I could just really acceptthe situation as it is.
And I, that's what I, I reallyresonated with that.

(56:58):
Of just being like, not able tobe happy and have joy in a
moment because I'm just sofocused on, well I kind of
wanted it.
To look like this, it doesn'tlook like that.
Like even the man that she endedup in the end, I did not like
that she ended up with him, butI'm like, she's happy.
So I can't really complain,complain.
That was evidence of her reallyletting go of control.

(57:18):
Cause he wasn't her ideal.
Right.
But he was a good man.
So yeah.

Yeah.
Well, I think that also threesdo tend to be like more
adaptable to change

Dayo (57:31):
see.
Uh, right,

and, and ones I think have like, I don't
like it if it's somebody else'sidea, but I don't want to feel
miserable.
So I will reframe it and I will,I'll be like, actually, it's
better that it turned out thisway.
It's like kind of a seven ishcoping mechanism.
Um, and yeah, it sounds likethat might be a little bit
different as well.

Dayo (57:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
I have, I have struggled.
I struggled greatly.
Compromise, adaptability, allthese things.

Mhm.
Mhm.
We all have our work.

Dayo (58:01):
right, right.
Yeah,

You'll just be more rested while you're
doing it, probably.
M3s.

Dayo (58:08):
Right.

Okay.
Well, I'm curious.
Where can people find you?
What are you working on?

Dayo (58:14):
Yeah.
So I'm actually thinking ofmoving my platform to my
website.
Um, I'm have a website, but Ihaven't really been posting on
it.
But that's kind of where I'm Iwant to move.
And like, um, point people toinstead of my Instagram, my
Instagram is still there.
Um, I was probably going to stayon there forever.
I might come back, who knowswhat will happen in the future.
Um, but my Instagram isobviously the black Enneagram

(58:35):
and the website is same thing,www.
theblackenneagram.
com.
Um, yeah, those are the twobiggest things.
two biggest ways you can findme.
Um, I do have like a little minibook coming out.
Um, I don't know when.
I actually do not know thepublishing date.
But that's coming out soon.
Um, I'm hoping.
And so I'm hoping to share likethe links and stuff like that on

(58:56):
my Instagram when it does comeout.
But it's basically just like avery beginner level and you can
book.
Um, not much of me is in it,unfortunately.
But like, it's, um, like, youknow, getting the reps in of
writing about the Enneagram.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Cool.
I will, uh, link it up.
Um, final two questions that Iask everyone.

Dayo (59:16):
Okay,

First, uh, tell me about a book that
has helped you, refreshed you,or shaped you in the last year.

Dayo (59:24):
I'm a Kindle book reader, so I need to remember the title.

Oh my gosh, it's so hard when you're
reading on Kindle because youdon't see the cover.
So it's like, I read this coolbook.
I don't know what it's called.

Dayo (59:36):
The Perfectionist in Me really wanted to find a book
that would help me understandmen.
Because if I'm going to be withsomeone, I need to understand
them.
So I could be, not the perfectpartner, but like, close to what
would be the most helpful.
And so I started reading thisbook called, um, How Can I Get
Through to You?
Closing the Intimacy Gap BetweenMen and Women.

(59:58):
And this book has been very hardto read.
Very difficult to read becauseHe's really good at the, the
author is very good at havingcompassion for both men and
women.
And I think that we live in ageneration where that doesn't
have a lot of compassion formen.
I've struggled with havingcompassion for men.
And so this book reallychallenges challenges that and
like really helps to understandthe things that men go through

(01:00:20):
in their life.
Obviously, he's also, you know,understanding that women go
through as well.
Um, but Yeah, it's just a veryeye opening book because I don't
I'm not a man.
I don't understand theirexperience.
I know what's going on in theirworld.
So this book gives me a goodlike glimpse.
And he's also a therapist.
So, um, the way that heapproaches, um, the topics.
It's from a very like, logicallens, which I appreciate.

(01:00:43):
It's not so like, it's not veryfeelings based at all.
Like, he's not a very like,like, woo woo person.
He's very much like, this is thefacts.
I appreciate the facts beinglaid out for me in that way.
So yeah, really, really goodbook.
I recommend it to anyone who'slike, struggling Like, if your
natural deposition is not, like,like romantic, I guess that's

(01:01:04):
the word.
Like, I'm not a romantic person.
I think the book kind of bringsme back into my heart in a very
profound way.
So, yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall (01:01:12):
Cool.
I will definitely check thatout.
Um, and I like that.
I think that it's so importantto be compassionate to all
humans.
And some of them are differentgenders than

Dayo (01:01:21):
Yeah.

So yeah.

Dayo (01:01:25):
Yeah.
They're still humans.
Yeah.

Okay.
Last question.
Tell me a piece of advice thathas really stuck with you.

Dayo (01:01:34):
This is a good one.
I think I might have said it alittle bit earlier.
I think this is something that Iwas told by, like, my married
friends.
Of like obviously we all knowthat communication is key, but
like there's something to besaid about Even if something is
obvious You can't if you have aneed that want that you want to

(01:01:56):
get met Rather than assuming theperson is just going to
automatically know what you needBecause you know, it's quote
unquote obvious to you likeactually communicate and ask And
risk the rejection that mightcome and then saying like I
can't Um, I think that has beena really really helpful piece of
advice that i've gotten veryrecently You That has put me in
a, it's very difficult to do.

(01:02:18):
It's very difficult for me todo, but I think it's, it's been
helpful for sure.
So yeah, just ask me for what Ineed.
It's such an obvious thing, butI think it solves a lot of
problems.
I will say that.

Yeah, absolutely.
And I think to just recognizing,oh, we're even just Um, and I
love

Dayo (01:02:51):
from like a social media, like being great, being grown up
in the social media era, like, Idon't know if you've heard the
phrase, if he wanted to, hewould.
And how like unhelpful thatphrase can be because like you
just said like not everyone iscoming from a context of like
knowing how to do certain thingsand knowing how to take um pick
up certain cues um so like meabandoning abandoning that piece

(01:03:13):
of advice and actually taking ona more mature piece of advice of
like no you actually have toopen your mouth and be a mature
adult and ask the things youneed so

that.
Way to go.
Well, great.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
This has been so fun to chat andI can't wait to check out your
book when it's out.

Dayo (01:03:34):
thank you for having me this has been fun

Steph Barron Hall (01:03:36):
Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram
IRL.
If you love the show, be sure tosubscribe and leave us a rating
and review.
This is the easiest way to makesure new people find the show.
And it's so helpful for a newpodcast like this one, if you
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Sign up for my email list in theshow notes or message me on
instagram at nine types co totell me your one big takeaway

(01:03:57):
from today's show I'd love tohear from you.
I know there are a millionpodcasts you could have been
listening to, and I feel sograteful that you chose to spend
this time with me.
Can't wait to meet you rightback here for another episode of
any grim IRL very soon.
The Enneagram and real lifepodcast is a production of nine
types co LLC.

(01:04:18):
It's created and produced byStephanie Barron hall.
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